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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:11:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tityana Where is the challenge now?
SPs do not make the game easier.
However, being able to actually PLAY THE GAME when you first start, will be nice for alot of new players.
It was 3 days before I could fly a merlin with non-civilian eq, that's a long, LONG time to new players.
I like the fact new players will be able to actually play the game, however starting with level 5 in some skills might be a bit TOO good...
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Redwolf
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 20:26:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Redwolf on 04/11/2006 20:26:57 meh
Originally by: HippoKing Who cares if the game is coming up. Forums are back \o/
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Lady Loom
Red Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:06:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia If you start a char now, you will likely have more SPS than a new Kali char.
And if you have less SP, guess what? You have ISK and equipment to give a new char you make, and said new char will have a leg up on others still.
Once you have adv learning skills to 4, getting 1.5mil SP per month isn't hard, hell it's probably low, because a combat-char will have much better per/wil than say, my well-rounded char.
that's not the point - right now you still waste your first month(s) learning basic stuff which allows you to enjoy the game - without those few hundred thousand SP in basics like engineering or mechanics (eg.) you can't fit your ship for ****, even though you can earn a million in your first week and buy any frigate + fitting you want. So why would you punish yourself with that "hard" (read: boring, pointless, frustrating) newbie phase if you knew in just a month or so you get it all for free?
telling noobs to go for advanced training level 4s right away is a sure way to make a majority of them quit in disgust BTW, so I totally understand why they want to give players more powerful starter chars which can actually do *something*, that doesn't mean I have to be happy that I could have skipped the newbie boredom if I just waited a few months before rerolling that character...
[power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat] |
Zurtur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:14:00 -
[154]
The more i read this forum the less i like Kali. CCP, i hope it ends up being good, cause so far its not looking like it will. And I really didnt expect that.
Z
---
Reminder to all Icelanders - yes i know, and no it was not me who named this character. |
Hypo Psycho
Minmatar Universal Industries PLC.
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:54:00 -
[155]
I DONT LIKE IT, end of, full stop, finished done and dusted.
"see you on the other side" |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:57:00 -
[156]
This is a good change, and yes I only started an alt a few months ago.
Notice how they all seemed to end up with 800k skillpoints btw?
I made an alt that started with 400k, my girlfriend made one that started with 50k.
The old system was way to easy to min-max.
Zarch AlDain
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Skraelingz
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:10:00 -
[157]
i think its a good change for noobs, but i fear this will be to easily exploitable by more experianced players. what majority of new players are aware enough to take advantage of that kind of starting boost anway? -----------------------------------------------
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Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:21:00 -
[158]
yeah as someone pointed out this might just be a 'test only' thing and as thoes that have gotten into kali to do some testing will know, CCP has given all accounts Jurryrigging (whatever flavor) to rank 3 for all types of rigs (so people can test em)
as well as Heavy assualt missile launchers to V and heavy assualt missle specalization to V as well too.
I havn't noticed any other new skills in my skill list there might be more, but yeah this could just be a testing thing, so people can get a few alts with different specalizations to test new things. Well see though if this goes through, i'm not gonna put too much thought into this untill its a confirmed "going to sisi" all it means is ill roll all my tertiary alts for better skills =)
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Tehyarec
Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.04 22:26:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 04/11/2006 02:40:28 Hello, Kali isn't slated to get rolling for ABOUT ANOTHER MONTH, optimistically speaking. Meanwhile, everybody that starts NOW (or just started) can get ABOVE those 800k SPs by the time Kali enters service ... Geez, how retarded can SOME people react ?
Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly.
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Yumi Katanawe
Caldari Demon Womb
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Posted - 2006.11.04 23:31:00 -
[160]
10 to 1 dragon franchisers aren't happy with the turnout and pressured ccp to do this in order to boost acc retention from kali launch which they will use to launch an ad campaign in china.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:00:00 -
[161]
seems kinda hosed that a new player can be using T2 gear the first day of play.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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SunTzuRaven
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:08:00 -
[162]
So ccp can never make new players start any better? ________________________________________ <("<) <('')> (>")>
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Lady Loom
Red Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.05 00:30:00 -
[163]
Originally by: SunTzuRaven So ccp can never make new players start any better?
sure they can, but I don't think screwing with the starter skills is the way to do it - what about generally shorter skill training (at least for certain skills) which allows everyone to profit? I'm sure they can come up with something more useful than "here go get your T2 as a newbie"...
[power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat] |
Ratsock
Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.11.05 01:05:00 -
[164]
I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind...
Can someone confirm?
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Zhelavar
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2006.11.05 01:14:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Tehyarec Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly.
I don't see how you are screwed. If you started a month before Kali and your character is not up to what a new Kali character can be, why not just reroll once you install Kali? Not only do you have the 800k SP but you also have a month of experience, ISK, and assets to back it.
Where is the problem? You are STILL way ahead of the person who starts the day of the Kali release.
================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War: Views of a Few |
Adoran Wa'alle
Caldari 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.05 01:21:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Zhelavar
Originally by: Tehyarec Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly.
I don't see how you are screwed. If you started a month before Kali and your character is not up to what a new Kali character can be, why not just reroll once you install Kali? Not only do you have the 800k SP but you also have a month of experience, ISK, and assets to back it.
Where is the problem? You are STILL way ahead of the person who starts the day of the Kali release.
Take my situation. I can either pay for an alt account now and waste my first payed month to get up to par...or I can get a month worth of training without paying for that month. saves me 15USD ----------------------------------- Rawr. awrarawr! |
Xeoz
The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:16:00 -
[167]
This is a great idea. It will help get the newbie's active faster. As it stands right now a new player cant do much of anything. The best they can hope to accomplish is the tutorial and the easiest level 1 missions for the first few weeks. This change will help to attract, and even more important, help to retain new players. The ability to continue to attract and retain new players is the foundation that will keep eve around for years to come.
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:17:00 -
[168]
If everyone gets an extra 700l or so skillpoints to spend as they wish, I would be ok with 'helping' the new players, as it stands, it is unfair to other players. Make it optional if people feel like they are charity. I would argue the same if CCP changes the attributes also, adding and subtracting skill points and attributes directly changes the way the game is played. So CCP, the game is hard, we all play it becuase its hard. Those of us who survived the first few months in eve are your fanbase. Catering to the 'I wonder if this game is good' player is not what I though CCP would be interested in doing.
- Give us the difference in SPs or don't do it. Double standards are simply not nice to those of us who spent the time traing the skills. ---
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Karoth Tyu
FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.05 02:41:00 -
[169]
Maybe I'm a goob, but I kinda like the idea I can make a new alt and have instant access to T2 guns on it
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Phrixus Zephyr
Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.05 04:52:00 -
[170]
Appart from true newbie's, i fail to see how this is unfair to anyone.
If i train the right skills my main will get a mil SPs in 20ish day. My alt in 17-18 days. It hardly effect's me in anyway.
If i had a new character with less SPs, i'd even go as far as to just make a new char and train the skill's i needed anyway.
It's not 'sissification of eve' the gap between newbie's and 'Vets' is getting bigger every day, the time it take's to get 'into' eve to compete take longer than it used too. This helps it somewhat.
The only thing i think is maybe slightly broken is that char that can already use T2 small guns. I think that's a little out of whack TBH.
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Secretary
Bargain consumables
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Posted - 2006.11.05 06:14:00 -
[171]
out of the box character than can use tech2 small guns probably can't afford the guns, or the ammo. Disposable combat alts sound like fun to me.
Can't see the problem with it tbh apart from a bit of disparity between people who start in the weeks before kali goes live and those who start new characters.
For those throwing their toys out of the pram because it's just "not fair" on all of us who had to work 26 hours a day and eat cold gravel while we lived at the bottom of a hole under a lake to get where we are today... well eve is hard. Live with it or don't.
It may be just for testing, it may be for real but i suspect that CCP in their infinite wisdom won't give the new players enough cash to cover clone costs on those SP.
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Amarr Nite
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:21:00 -
[172]
WTF is everyone *****ing about?
As the game goes on and everyones SP goes to 50-60-70mill its natural that the starting SP will go up, This has nothing to do with being "fair" to older players but the right thing to do to increase the games appeal to new folks.
If you started a toon a 1-2 months back and are ****ed big **** life isnt fair, This is totally needed in imho and i've been playing for three years.
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Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:33:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 05/11/2006 11:33:34 Nice - it will cause peoples sitting in stations with their mains while fights will be only done using alts. Whats the problem when the alt can already use some good equipment?
Blah... this is so... unfair...
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:40:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Amarr Nite WTF is everyone *****ing about?
As the game goes on and everyones SP goes to 50-60-70mill its natural that the starting SP will go up, This has nothing to do with being "fair" to older players but the right thing to do to increase the games appeal to new folks.
If you started a toon a 1-2 months back and are ****ed big **** life isnt fair, This is totally needed in imho and i've been playing for three years.
Agreed. Although it would be IMO a good idea to limit the areas where you can put the SPs in.
A new char being able to get some of his learning skills up right at the start = good.
Being able to setup an t2 destroyer suicideganker alt without a days training = bad. (yes, I know it gets prosecuted, but I have my doubts that everyone doing that is catched)
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G Dabak
Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:12:00 -
[175]
So to the people whining that they made their character a month ago: should CCP never implement this then, because there will always be that set of people who could have come out slightly ahead by waiting? Should all new players go without this advantage forever just because you did? Or should CCP spend a bunch of man hours awarding everyone new a couple hundred K SP? You can't just drop SP on people, it has to go into things, and as far as I know there's no mechanism to automatically distribute it like that.
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CamelKnight III
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:56:00 -
[176]
You're nuts. With 800k new players aren't new at all. They even have lvl 5 skills! 800k takes me over 1 week to train, while I'm implanted and fully trained in advanced learning skills. CCP have clearly gone mad. I just hope they realise soon enough that this is NOT the way to attract new players or guide them through the first few weeks.
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Lady Loom
Red Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:59:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Ratsock I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind...
Can someone confirm?
from my limited testing (the test client times out at login 3 out of 4 times for me and the queue is long enough as it is...) that holds true and means a newbie ultimately gets 4 attribute points less than a pre-Kali character, and it especially affects newbie training times because the difference between 10 and 12 in, say, perception is a lot more noticeable than between 20 and 22 (eg.). I hope that's an oversight rather than intended or that shiny new "you can get 800k SP" system nerfs new chars in the long run...
[power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat] |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.05 13:32:00 -
[178]
i realise this comment is totaley useless but......
HOLY **** ON A ********* SANDWICH! --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Acwron
Minmatar Cataclysm Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:34:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Lady Loom
Originally by: Ratsock I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind...
Can someone confirm?
from my limited testing (the test client times out at login 3 out of 4 times for me and the queue is long enough as it is...) that holds true and means a newbie ultimately gets 4 attribute points less than a pre-Kali character, and it especially affects newbie training times because the difference between 10 and 12 in, say, perception is a lot more noticeable than between 20 and 22 (eg.). I hope that's an oversight rather than intended or that shiny new "you can get 800k SP" system nerfs new chars in the long run...
please fill in a bugreport
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Necronus
Amarr Monks of War
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:57:00 -
[180]
I think its a good idea,but too imbalanced right now. Giving noobs a 5 lvl skills is not a good idea. And 800k seems too much. I think if you reduce it twice and restrict to 4 lvl max that could work out.
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