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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:05:00 - [1] Don't poke me for the portraits/race/bloodline/attribute choices, those where knee-jerk reaction selections. What you DO need to see however is the TYPICAL END RESULTS for each and every of the 6 basic "career/specialisation" choices you get at creation time. Engineer Entrepreneur Executive Commander Prospector Soldier Special Forces Enjoy. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Eternal Fury Shadow Of The Light Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:08:00 - [2] WTF! Eternal Fury Shadow Of The Light .SOL.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:10:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/11/2006 02:10:51 WHAT?!!!! 800k FREE SKILL POINTS?! Man the newbies who just created characters are gonna be angry. Come on this has got to be fake. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Mitten Caldari Sector 7	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Mitten on 04/11/2006 02:10:55 Sure that isnt from the old beta char creation? edit: nope its not, the compensation skills werent there back then -- Nerfed Siggy... Signature removed - Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques([email protected])
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:13:00 - [5] Look at soldiers. And then think "hmm, I could take this up to a manageable small fleet op battleship sacrificial pilot with large T1 guns in about 2 weeks". _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:16:00 - [6] Us vets need some kind of skill allowing us to not be overrun by the leet newbs ccp is creating Skill: Veterans Preference Pre Req: 20 mil total SP (or some other arbitrary number) +1 to all attributes just off the top of my head. i'm gonna be pretty jacked if some year old player passes me in SP
Mitten Caldari Sector 7	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:17:00 - [7] Soldiers more look like to me like instant t2 small turrets -- Nerfed Siggy... Signature removed - Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques([email protected])
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:19:00 - [8] It's obviously fake... The test server hasn't even been up for a few days... _________________________________________________________
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:20:00 - [9] Originally by: HankMurphy just off the top of my head. i'm gonna be pretty jacked if some year old player passes me in SP They don't get more/better attributes. They just get 800k SP. You know, about as much as a vet gets in about 2 weeks of normal gameplay ? Originally by: Mitten Soldiers more look like to me like instant t2 small turrets That too, but on T1 ships and with no good level of engineering/electronics/weaponupgrades... meh, kind of a tight fit. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn It's obviously fake... The test server hasn't even been up for a few days... Right. Ask the 500+ other players that WERE online today on SiSi playing around. These ARE a screenshot from MINUTES ago from SiSi. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:22:00 - [11] What will happen to pre-Kali newbie characters with less than 800k SP like me? Seriously, unless CCP gives up SP's to balance everyone out (lower than 800k), it'll be a nail in the coffin for pre-Kali newcomers.
Fiona Appletart Minmatar Invisible Menace	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari What will happen to pre-Kali newbie characters with less than 800k SP like me? Seriously, unless CCP gives up SP's to balance everyone out (lower than 800k), it'll be a nail in the coffin for pre-Kali newcomers. Can I have your stuff?
Mitten Caldari Sector 7	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:25:00 - [13] All I can see this as helping is: 1: Helping newer people get ****ed off as they've been playing for 3 months and only have around 1.5m sp, and someone who will then be able to start with half their total sp 2: Helping people create disposable alts that can do alot stronger pirating with t2 guns and alot better equip than currently done. Delete, remake, rinse repeat. Yea its bannable/warnable, but you cant prove it so how are you gonna do anythin -- Nerfed Siggy... Signature removed - Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques([email protected])
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari What will happen to pre-Kali newbie characters with less than 800k SP like me? Seriously, unless CCP gives up SP's to balance everyone out (lower than 800k), it'll be a nail in the coffin for pre-Kali newcomers. Well I just bought a second account and trained him up from the usual miniscule amount of SPs... I'll be a bit annoyed if I could've got 800k free SPs had I waited a month or two. Considering that's a month of training (pre learning skills), that's a lot of time missed for my new alt. _________________________________________________________
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:26:00 - [15] Edited by: Darksaber64x on 04/11/2006 02:26:19 Wow.. 2 level 5 skills to start with.. I'm not sure whether to be happy about creating instantly awesome alts, or annoyed at the fact that I started with ONE level 4 skill when I created my char... I think I had like 50k sp to begin with, and now new players get 800k
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn It's obviously fake... The test server hasn't even been up for a few days... I take this back, I just looked at the test server and it signed me on straight away... Sorry... :S _________________________________________________________
Ras Blumin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:29:00 - [17] This is a good change imo. Way too many "must-have" skills when you start out. I agree that it is a bit ****ty for our current newbies though.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari What will happen to pre-Kali newbie characters with less than 800k SP like me? Seriously, unless CCP gives up SP's to balance everyone out (lower than 800k), it'll be a nail in the coffin for pre-Kali newcomers. Whoever HAS more than 800k already can just keep going, or if unhappy with initial selection, can reroll and don't spend those tedious first couple of weeks doing trivial work. Whoever does not, can create a new char and transfer all assets. Or create a new one and decide later. Seriously, 800k SP is no big deal UNLESS you are a really new player. Heck, you CAN start now with 300+k SP already. I never heard anybody complaining "unfair". Did you ? For a vet, that's probably not even 2 weeks of training (as I think I already said). I think I lost more time training total than that because I missed skills changing on time. If you care so much about 800k SP (more like 700k or even as less as 500k difference from other pickable options) rather than enjoying the game at all, then by all means, don't create a new character just before Kali rolls, wait until Kali actually starts ? _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Bohoba Caldari The Dark Angles	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Darksaber64x Edited by: Darksaber64x on 04/11/2006 02:26:19 Wow.. 2 level 5 skills to start with.. I'm not sure whether to be happy about creating instantly awesome alts, or annoyed at the fact that I started with ONE level 4 skill when I created my char... I think I had like 50k sp to begin with, and now new players get 800k noob :) back when I started nothing was higher than lvl 2 or 3 when kila comes I may start a new char myself got 3 accounts now wonder if I can pass another by the wife hehe Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:31:00 - [20] It's about a month of skill training, once the attributes are up. I think it's a good idea, honestly, big incentive for newbies. They can do stuff right off the bat, and hopefully the 2 months of learning skill learning should be less boring now. Those of us who just created chars... it's easy to reroll. If your skillpoints are less than 800k by then, and especially if you've picked a race / bloodline that you didn't really want to play simply because it had "better skills" to begin with... makes sense to re-roll.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:31:00 - [21] Edited by: Samirol on 04/11/2006 02:31:51 i hope this is bull**** sissification of eve tbh This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
fisty RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:34:00 - [22] this is total **, my 2nd account that i got for me like 3 weeks ago is still training learning skills and nowhere near that amount of sp's if i would have known... this is just ** up Ciao**
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:35:00 - [23] I wonder if they'll change the "Basic Clone" to cover 800k SP's now, and move every other clone upwards by 800k.
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:36:00 - [24] WHAT?!?!? Why didn't I get a million free SPs at the start of my character creation. This is retarded, don't do this CCP. --- Go! Go! Go pointless Tier 3s!
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Samirol why dont we give them 1 m isk to start off with. And while we are at it, lets make the only pvp at arenas... They probably will, actually. By the time I had 800k, I also had a couple million ISK. It would make sense to me. One month of skills, some better cash to start with. In the grand scheme of things, 1 million and 800k skills is nothing, really.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:42:00 - [26] Originally by: Letouk Mernel Originally by: Samirol why dont we give them 1 m isk to start off with. And while we are at it, lets make the only pvp at arenas... They probably will, actually. By the time I had 800k, I also had a couple million ISK. It would make sense to me. One month of skills, some better cash to start with. In the grand scheme of things, 1 million and 800k skills is nothing, really. besides the massive inflation that will follow This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Hablacraja Take a look at the maldistributed attributes on each of those, though. executive commander seems balanced somewhat As I said, random "whatever was closest to mouse cursor" selection in bloodline/custom attributes can do that _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:42:00 - [28] Edited by: Samirol on 04/11/2006 02:41:55 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 04/11/2006 02:40:28 Hello, Kali isn't slated to get rolling for ABOUT ANOTHER MONTH, optimistically speaking. Meanwhile, everybody that starts NOW (or just started) can get ABOVE those 800k SPs by the time Kali enters service. Heck, you can get up to 1.2 mil SP by then if you know what you're doing and don't miss trains. You have more than enough time to do whatever it is you think is best: wait with new chars, or start now and have fun playing regardless of "possible future SP gap". Geez, how retarded can SOME people react ? Originally by: Hablacraja Take a look at the maldistributed attributes on each of those, though. As I said in first post, I just clicked through those parts wherever my mouse was closest So just ignore those... you can distribute them EXACTLY as you did before. Nothing changed in attributes, just in skills. thats not the point, for me, it seems like eve is losing the brutality about it that i love edit:spelling This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Hablacraja Take a look at the maldistributed attributes on each of those, though. executive commander seems balanced somewhat As I said, random "whatever was closest to mouse cursor" selection in bloodline/custom attributes can do that its more balanced than all the others it looks like This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
Perrault	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:44:00 - [30] Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:45:00 - [31] Originally by: James Snowscoran The one thing I'm worried about is that people will be able to hop into battleships even earlier in their career. I always felt this was too easy, and that newbs can get stuck in a ship they don't really have the skills for way too fast without the gamemechanics preventing them. Maybe up BS skill requirements a bit would be an idea Eh, if they can afford to buy the ship. Most newbies can't afford one right out of school. Besides, it's all about T2 nowadays, and although it's too rare and expensive for my tastes, I suppose we have to move forward, on to T3 and beyond. At some point "battleships" (the level 2 T1 ones) have to become newbie gear.
stock holder	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Perrault Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft. but yet you buy an account?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Perrault Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft. Are YOUR attributes worse if new players get this ? Did ANY of your skills drop ? No and no ? So where's this "shaft" you speak of ? What about those that have 20+ mil SPs now ? Do they get shafted too somehow ? If you create an alt by the tike Kali rolls out, would you prefer going through the same pain AGAIN as with your first ever char, or would you rather have THIS instead ? You don't get "shafted" in any way, newer players just get a slightly more attractive start. I suppose you don't support any real-life company then, that tries to attract new customers by giving them some minor form of bonus packages, eh ? _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Letouk Mernel Originally by: James Snowscoran The one thing I'm worried about is that people will be able to hop into battleships even earlier in their career. I always felt this was too easy, and that newbs can get stuck in a ship they don't really have the skills for way too fast without the gamemechanics preventing them. Maybe up BS skill requirements a bit would be an idea Eh, if they can afford to buy the ship. Most newbies can't afford one right out of school. Besides, it's all about T2 nowadays, and although it's too rare and expensive for my tastes, I suppose we have to move forward, on to T3 and beyond. At some point "battleships" (the level 2 T1 ones) have to become newbie gear. no, its not all about t2. A t1 fitted ship with a person that has experience will completely *****a ship that has t2 but inexperienced. Stop trying to take away the brutality from eve, its going to trash the game. This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:48:00 - [35] Originally by: Samirol besides the massive inflation that will follow Ok so maybe instead of 1 million ISK being given to them, maybe a newbie could somehow borrow it from their school, payable later, and you can't delete that character if it hasn't paid its loan. Or something. I dunno.
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Hablacraja Take a look at the maldistributed attributes on each of those, though. executive commander seems balanced somewhat Err... notice that its on an Achura character... known for their 3 Charisma builds... so why dont they just make Achura-Executive commander, and forget about ever training Leadership skills? It kinda makes their 3 charisma pointless. Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:50:00 - [37] Originally by: Samirol Stop trying to take away the brutality from eve, its going to trash the game. What "brutality" are you talking about? Combat can be as "brutal" as you want it, with any ship; making it hard for new people to get into the game ... that's counterproductive.
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Perrault Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft. ? And how many SPs do you have an that char? How many could you have when kali hits? Not to mention in that time frame you'll get experience. Experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (you get the picture) SP
Mirirar Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:51:00 - [39] Dear god - this is bad. Now we'll have much more capable suicide gankers and griefers. For the love of god, PLEASE roll this back. It's giving all newbies a free month boost for no good reason.
Perrault	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Perrault Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft. Are YOUR attributes worse if new players get this ? Did ANY of your skills drop ? No and no ? So where's this "shaft" you speak of ? What about those that have 20+ mil SPs now ? Do they get shafted too somehow ? If you create an alt by the tike Kali rolls out, would you prefer going through the same pain AGAIN as with your first ever char, or would you rather have THIS instead ? You don't get "shafted" in any way, newer players just get a slightly more attractive start. I suppose you don't support any real-life company then, that tries to attract new customers by giving them some minor form of bonus packages, eh ? Had I known they were going to simply gift players with 700k more SPs to start with I wouldnt have spent all my ISK on skillbooks now would I? This is rediculous. Why even train skills at all with your current newbie character? Whats the point of being able to fly a cruiser right out of the gate anyways? I think its stupid. Its a move to make EVE more appealing to the masses. And the masses dont have the IQ to wrap their minds around this game. EVE will gradually devolve into a friendly point and click affair with little tactics. Its happened to other MMOs.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Mirirar Now we'll have much more capable suicide gankers and griefers. Extra reasons to leave highsec and move into 0.0 Hey, win/win situation ! Just created an Achura Specops on SiSi. Curious as to how fast I can get into a Caracal, with the 100-isk-for-anything (including implants) and the usual 5k ISK starting capital... FD-MLJ, here we come... "Caracal Wanda" is itching to get all shooty and pew-pew-yi. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Letouk Mernel maybe a newbie could somehow borrow it from their school, payable later, and you can't delete that character if it hasn't paid its loan. oh god. EvE student loans *hank hides his rifter so it cant be repossesed
Areconus Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:10:00 - [43] Ok CCP, either you dont do this and leave it as is, or give us all 700k in skills of our choosing :) Gloria Stitz- "Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously"
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:12:00 - [44] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Letouk Mernel Originally by: James Snowscoran The one thing I'm worried about is that people will be able to hop into battleships even earlier in their career. I always felt this was too easy, and that newbs can get stuck in a ship they don't really have the skills for way too fast without the gamemechanics preventing them. Maybe up BS skill requirements a bit would be an idea Eh, if they can afford to buy the ship. Most newbies can't afford one right out of school. Besides, it's all about T2 nowadays, and although it's too rare and expensive for my tastes, I suppose we have to move forward, on to T3 and beyond. At some point "battleships" (the level 2 T1 ones) have to become newbie gear. no, its not all about t2. A t1 fitted ship with a person that has experience will completely *****a ship that has t2 but inexperienced. Stop trying to take away the brutality from eve, its going to trash the game. Samirol is right, t2 isn't what it's all about, and it's gonna be even less so when Kali hits- I wouldn't be surprised to see Drakes pwning HACs of all shapes and sizes left and right without much trouble at all. I don't really see an issue with brutality here at all though, well unless the little noobs don't get lots of free starting ISK to go along with their skills. It isn't in anyone's interest that it takes a week or two to progress to basic functionality for a character. -----
Christopher Scott Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:24:00 - [45] Wow! Ya know, before I used to create throwaway alts with 14,000 worthless skillpoints just to put up market escrws. Now I can create throwaway alts with 800,000skillpoints specialized in market trading. Thanks CCP.
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:25:00 - [46] really doesnt bother me if they get 800k skills, to be honest, tbh CCP should give free learning skills to all characters at lvl 3-4 the rank 1 version Quote: "Don't touch the RED butt
nutbar	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Christopher Scott Wow! Ya know, before I used to create throwaway alts with 14,000 worthless skillpoints just to put up market escrws. Now I can create throwaway alts with 800,000skillpoints specialized in market trading. Thanks CCP. Yup, that's how I see this :) As long as the newbies aren't getting higher starting attributes, it's not that bad. Now I can make an alt that's truly geared towards mining for example, or perhaps better than my main for doing research or somesuch - having a few lvl5 skills to begin with could be rather interesting :D
Norris Leet	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:09:00 - [48] This is jacked up. I created a char with 90k of SP about a week ago. I have been doing hardcore learning and have reached about 280k SP now. If people get to start out with uber SP I'm going to be ****ed. Its not enough that CCP doesnt do anything about complex bugs and has ruined the econ. Seems like I got into this game past its prime. CCP better propose give newbs some compensation for sucking off the bat. Pshaw....forget it, I just wont renew and think CCP is catering to almighty dollar.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:19:00 - [49] Originally by: James Snowscoran Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Letouk Mernel Originally by: James Snowscoran The one thing I'm worried about is that people will be able to hop into battleships even earlier in their career. I always felt this was too easy, and that newbs can get stuck in a ship they don't really have the skills for way too fast without the gamemechanics preventing them. Maybe up BS skill requirements a bit would be an idea Eh, if they can afford to buy the ship. Most newbies can't afford one right out of school. Besides, it's all about T2 nowadays, and although it's too rare and expensive for my tastes, I suppose we have to move forward, on to T3 and beyond. At some point "battleships" (the level 2 T1 ones) have to become newbie gear. no, its not all about t2. A t1 fitted ship with a person that has experience will completely *****a ship that has t2 but inexperienced. Stop trying to take away the brutality from eve, its going to trash the game. Samirol is right, t2 isn't what it's all about, and it's gonna be even less so when Kali hits- I wouldn't be surprised to see Drakes pwning HACs of all shapes and sizes left and right without much trouble at all. I don't really see an issue with brutality here at all though, well unless the little noobs don't get lots of free starting ISK to go along with their skills. It isn't in anyone's interest that it takes a week or two to progress to basic functionality for a character. the brutality is the toughness of eve. I guess i have enjoyed the painstaking struggle to get better in eve. I think reducing this struggle will bring in a new breed of players that are used to getting coddled and not used to struggling to do well. This corp is recruiting. Billboard Project
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Roxanna Kell really doesnt bother me if they get 800k skills, to be honest, tbh CCP should give free learning skills to all characters at lvl 3-4 the rank 1 version Agreed.
BoinKlasik Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Hablacraja Take a look at the maldistributed attributes on each of those, though. stat char creation choices dont have anything to do with the ones that give you skills, its simply that the skill ones give you about 10 diff skills now each w/ various levels, than the current version which is 2 skills or so and a level from each one. doh, I broke my edited sig :/ cries this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:38:00 - [52] Edited by: xeom on 04/11/2006 05:40:17 If by brutality and ruffness you mean the first 2 weeks you are totaly bored then yes. I applaud this change a move in the right direction ccp! --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
E'Veel P'Tiga	Posted - 2006.11.04 06:28:00 - [53] WTF!!! Man I rolled my alt's character about a month ago and have just breeched 1mil skill points. While I wont reroll it's a bit of a shame to see that if somebody rolled a character today there almost just as skilled as me and better in some areas. I'm not sure about this. It's a little to easy to make a frigate gank alt gang! _______________
keiichi chan Caldari BORG Kollektiv BORG Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 06:41:00 - [54] refining 5 and mining 5 wtf... CCP you should do something against the Macros, and NOT support them! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ hade wade dude da~ If you have something against, my English Skills, then Slap my Teacher!
Dano Sarum Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 06:57:00 - [55] I seriously hope this is a joke. I started with 19k SP or something silly (yes i know its crap, but i wanted attributes). Its bad enough you come out with godly perc / int bloodlines like Khanid and Achura, now you're gonna give newbies basicly a month of free SP? If thats the case will everyone allready with characters get an extra 2/3 weeks of training for free? It's great being Amarr, aint it?
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 06:59:00 - [56] Whine more? This is making it more easier to get into instead of weeks of being usless. Finnaly i can get friends flying with me the same night they can sign up.Instead of saying "wait 4 days dude then we can play" Get with it dudes this is a great thing.Sure that mean some n00b is gana get more SP faster but i really don't care.It's just something thats needed and will be great. A+ CCP keep it up! --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Enotz Amarr Terminus Est Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:01:00 - [57] I can understand why they did this, but it still seriously ****es me off. When I started two months ago, I had 30k SP. i'm just now hitting around 1.5m, and nearly all of that is in learning. If Kali is released in say, two weeks, that's probably around 1.7-1.8m for my character. So a new player starting is going to have a comparable amount of SP to me; and have a good chance of kicking my ass if they do a week or two of combat skill training before they start learning skills. Basically, they'll have more skils for actually DOING stuff before they need to train learning skills. An idea someone said once of giving everyone +10 to all attributes, taking away learning skills, and giving those that did train them an SP refund sounds better every second..
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:05:00 - [58] Ok we can all be greedy and cry all day. Or we can see that this is something that will move the game along. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Ischii Vara Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:07:00 - [59] I'm 11 days old and have 110k SP. Should I get mad now or later? If I have say, 300k when this hits, will I be given 500k free points? Or should I just shelve Eve until Kali and start over then?
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:08:00 - [60] I think this is good, but CCP should not give a lvl 5 skill to a startup. We always talked on how hard it was for a new player to get into the game, this will help. Some of them are honsetly way too over powered. These are newbies, giving them skills is one thing, but so near tech 2 no thanks. Either boost all current players by 800kSP or half the amount of SP given. Newbies do not need Refinning 5. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:11:00 - [61] Originally by: Ischii Vara I'm 11 days old and have 110k SP. Should I get mad now or later? If I have say, 300k when this hits, will I be given 500k free points? Or should I just shelve Eve until Kali and start over then? Might wan't to wait for kali i supos. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:15:00 - [62] It would be nice if CCP would buff everyone the difference in average SP between now and then. For the new characters they get a healthy boost so they're on part with new characters, for the old characters we just say 'yay' and move on since skills take an ungodly amount of time anyway and for mid level characters they maybe get an option to pickup combat or industrial skills they didn't grab before. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Ashley Stellia	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:28:00 - [63] Edited by: Ashley Stellia on 04/11/2006 07:31:20 Originally by: Enotz Basically, they'll have more skils for actually DOING stuff before they need to train learning skills. An idea someone said once of giving everyone +10 to all attributes, taking away learning skills, and giving those that did train them an SP refund sounds better every second.. You mean this guy??? Anyways, if these new 800,000 sp chars get implementyed in Kali, why not give everyone (other than new characters) a pill that, when they eat it, launches their current training skill 800,000 SP forward. If the skill level gets done before 800,000 SP are used, let it affect the next skill they train too, untill 800,000 SP have been trained. Giving everyone in EVE a 800,000 SP boost wont really affect things much in the long run, but will be like a small "Thank You" from CCP for our dedication and their happiness in this great time of Kali. And, better, now new chars will start out with the ability to actually fit some basic modules to their ships and help their freinds out from the git-go, instead of "Please train [long list of noob skills] to [level x] before you join us." Seriously, in the large scale of things starting with 800,000 sp is not so horrible...just make sure trial accounts cant train certain skills and whatnot and it shouldnt really be a problem. Suicide ganks will happen whether noobs start with 300,000 sp or 800,000 sp. The same measures will still protect you weith the same level of saftey. Dont haul ultra expensive stuff in ultra weak and slow ships while afk.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:02:00 - [64] seriously miffing that no one from CCP has commented regarding this development. Cmon, can we get an answer or anything about this?
Sol Halcon Minmatar The Exile Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:02:00 - [65] Oh no! This is what happened when SOE made Jedi a starting profession in SWG. The servers filled up with ZOMGUBER1337 12 year olds. I came here to get away from that. From the looks of the SF picture they will hop in a Rifter straight out of the box, complete with full missile and autocannon skills, running amok blowing everything up. I know, let them taste your cruiser. Well, those skill points are inate, you kill their pod and they clone with them automatically, hop back in their ship and are out again. I came here because death has a meaning, and you think twice before engaging. Thinking and planning are the themes here. I got tired of the launch and die, rinse and repeat console kiddie game mentality. I so hope the WoW bug didn't bite the devs here.
Enotz Amarr Terminus Est Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:19:00 - [66] Originally by: Ashley Stellia You mean this guy??? No, this person was in the skills forum, and it was just a short post.
MECTO Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:42:00 - [67] Originally by: Samirol lets make the only pvp at arenas... grrr.... i always dreamed about this It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Lady Lemmington	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:57:00 - [68] time has come for the day of the lemming. No longer will we be popped after the first shot, we can create ourselves with gunnery, and leadership... we will NERF those gate camps.... MWAHAHAHAHAHA
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:05:00 - [69] Originally by: evistin I think this is good, but CCP should not give a lvl 5 skill to a startup. We always talked on how hard it was for a new player to get into the game, this will help. Some of them are honsetly way too over powered. These are newbies, giving them skills is one thing, but so near tech 2 no thanks. Agreed. Giving newbies some more skills is a good idea but this is too much. Stick to level 4 skills max.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:25:00 - [70] Edited by: Phelan Lore on 04/11/2006 09:25:34 More sp for newbies is good, but starting out with T2 guns is a bit much. Kinda takes away from some of the fun of having something to look forwards to.
TTIGER Total Mayhem. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:26:00 - [71] You can start lvl 5 skills already, gunnery or science no problem here. To 800k sp current players ?Open an alt youll have your free 800k skill points .newbies need refining 5 more than anybody else. I think Nothing to fancy good for new player move on ( I remember same thing said by some ppl when you could open a char wtih science lvl 5 /gunenry 5 Originally by: evistin I think this is good, but CCP should not give a lvl 5 skill to a startup. Either boost all current players by 800kSP or half the amount of SP given. Newbies do not need Refinning 5.
Hirokishi	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:40:00 - [72] Originally by: TTIGER You can start lvl 5 skills already, gunnery or science no problem here. To 800k sp current players ?Open an alt youll have your free 800k skill points .newbies need refining 5 more than anybody else. I think Nothing to fancy good for new player move on ( I remember same thing said by some ppl when you could open a char wtih science lvl 5 /gunenry 5 Originally by: evistin I think this is good, but CCP should not give a lvl 5 skill to a startup. Either boost all current players by 800kSP or half the amount of SP given. Newbies do not need Refinning 5. and what about new accounts that were created few days/weeks ago ? they went all the trouble to see that someone who created an account one month later will be as skilled as they are ? I don't think they'll agree with you and say that there is no problem !
Aakron Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:46:00 - [73] Heh, /me clears out my useless market checking alts, I can now get a character completely ready to run a corp, or one that has mining 5! or reprocessing skills or completely ready to manage all my sell orders! thanks ccp!
Crystal Kali Floating Academy	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:47:00 - [74] Wow, all the whinders and whiner-bandwagoners never cease to amaze me This character started with a Level 5 and that was back in march. 800kSPs is absolutely NOTHING to an older player but does make a very valuable difference to newbies who are facing double sets of learning skills which kills a good couple of months of the early game. It means they can do something other than slowly mine a bit of veld with that basic mining laser in that rookie ship for the first couple of days. Anyway it's not as if they're being given a million ISK to start off with (unless they are, in which case THAT would be stupid). All I see here are greedy vets terrified that someone might possibly be a threat, or else whingeing that a new player won't be bored to sleep by the fact they can't actually doa nything at all when they're new except sit there and wait for skills to train Personally, I think this is a great idea for new players now when we have 60mill SP+ characters running around. Way back then when there weren't, perhaps the people who picked 15 L1 skills at creation and started with only 15k SPs were more in porportion to the the 'older' players. I certainly don't feel threatened by new players coming in with this. If people made characters shortly before Kali that will end up with less SP, well what's the issue in re-rolling? You can transfer money/items to alts or friends...
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:54:00 - [75] I see a lot of xenophobic people in this thread. It's beyond funny.
Lucifer Fellblade Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:55:00 - [76] This makes a big difference to all us players who are relatively new, who possibly spent about a month of training time, to get barely any more SP than new people will now be starting with, sorry but, making a whole month a waste isn't exactly what I see as an improvement, unless they're going to make up that time and give everybody else free SP. Those skills are just rediculous, I only just have more level V skills than the starting characters. ------
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:58:00 - [77] Originally by: Crystal Kali Wow, all the whinders and whiner-bandwagoners never cease to amaze me This character started with a Level 5 and that was back in march. 800kSPs is absolutely NOTHING to an older player but does make a very valuable difference to newbies who are facing double sets of learning skills which kills a good couple of months of the early game. It means they can do something other than slowly mine a bit of veld with that basic mining laser in that rookie ship for the first couple of days. Anyway it's not as if they're being given a million ISK to start off with (unless they are, in which case THAT would be stupid). All I see here are greedy vets terrified that someone might possibly be a threat, or else whingeing that a new player won't be bored to sleep by the fact they can't actually doa nything at all when they're new except sit there and wait for skills to train Personally, I think this is a great idea for new players now when we have 60mill SP+ characters running around. Way back then when there weren't, perhaps the people who picked 15 L1 skills at creation and started with only 15k SPs were more in porportion to the the 'older' players. I certainly don't feel threatened by new players coming in with this. If people made characters shortly before Kali that will end up with less SP, well what's the issue in re-rolling? You can transfer money/items to alts or friends... I don't think anyone's complaining about vets. I think they're complaining about people 'on the cusp' who'll be effected by this. There's also the fact that a free 500k SP would let me push Cruiser V out the door immediately and bump me into a few more Tech II skill ranges at this point...but....well yeah :) --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.04 09:59:00 - [78] What the hell is this! Man if this is legit, I'm pretty annoyed. EvE is getting wack by every passing day.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:00:00 - [79] I think its a great idea. The eve of today is very different to when i started 2 years ago. Give teh nubbins some lovvin. Lets hope the 3 day old players bring their shiney BS to lowsec hmm? ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:05:00 - [80] So you can use 3 char names now? Better be in front of the line when it comes to reg names like 'God' etc. Would be nice to know why they decided to go this way, not that I care if they start with higher skillpoints as I am happy with my chars even if they started with 20k SP. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Dumus Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:22:00 - [81] Congrats to CCP. I agree with these changes and I am a long standing player. This is what was needed for newbies. Bring it on! ---------------------------
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Chribba So you can use 3 char names now? Better be in front of the line when it comes to reg names like 'God' etc. I think that's only on Singularity.
Se'la Rox Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:49:00 - [83] Edited by: Se''la Rox on 04/11/2006 10:49:24 While I'd agree that it's helpful for new players, it's more than a little galling for the recent newcomers (myself included) who'll now see new players instantly show up with close to half as many - or more - SP than we do after working hard for weeks.
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:10:00 - [84] i'm not sure how I feel about this to be honest.. it's a nice headstart for newcomers but a lot of people are going to feel cheated, I absolutely did not have more than 120k skill points when I started. Dear CCP, add 680k skill points to my character, the current skill in training please ;p Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
Uggster Caldari Never'where	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:26:00 - [85] Not quite sure how I feel about this tbh. My main (this guy) has been around for ages so it does not matter but it does mean that I'll have to think of 2 new cool names for the scout alts on his account cos I'll be deleting them to get the super upgrade to the new guys. It does feel like a full green light for pirate/empire alts though, and I dont think thats a good idea. Still....popping noobs that have bought isk on ebay and can fly T2 fitting almost from the word go does have a certain charm. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg Story of my life that one :(
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:28:00 - [86] a certain charm u have interesting idea it is mmmm we see we shall
Sakura Zensen Caldari Cherry Blossom Front	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:31:00 - [87] **** it! ... should have waited for Kali I guess.
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:34:00 - [88] "Executive commander" eh? Yep, there's the template for your new fleet command alts... - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:35:00 - [89] what is executive commander ? new skill it must be looking forward to this i do
Jurskjeld Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:37:00 - [90] Edited by: Jurskjeld on 04/11/2006 11:38:08 This is idiotic. Basically it allows for everyone to create two more alts (on just ONE account) that can specialize in super-refining or anything else. Saying this will help newbs is correct, but it'll be an equal gain for the whole community, therefore an equal loss. We'll be seeing lots of two-week olds in assault frigates after Kali. The only FAIR way to compensate for uber-newbies coming into the game after Kali is to, as proposed above somewhere, give everyone with an existing charater around 650,000 skill points more. That can't possibly be too difficult. -- Amarr scum be pushing gas, Caldari dogs are kissing their ***. Gallente and Minmatar together stand forever as the holy band.
Anew Tactic	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:39:00 - [91] Well I have to agree and disagree with this whole 800k SP thing. While 800k SP is not a lot of pointsà.. Its more points than I started out with on any of my characters. Do we all get a free 800K? Cause I could use it also on my current characters. ;p Personally I donÆt think its right to give anything away for free to someone. Especially when its only specific people. Like people who have just started or are going to make new characters under this patch or update. IÆm pretty sure this idea is already ôSet In Stoneö and there is nothing anyone can do or say to change it. However, I would like to point out this is something SONY would do. As they have donÆt with most of the games they have totally trashed lately (and that the majority of us have left to find something else because of). I personally liked this game because we all start out the same and we all have the same chance to succeed. Guess thatÆs out the window now. This is how it all starts. First its just 800k SP, then its more ISK, then its something else. This is only the first step in the process of dumbing down the game to a level where no one will want to play it for long. 800k is not that much as some people have saidà So why give it away for free when the rest of us had to earn it. As I said, this is just the first step. Its 800k free SP now, but it will jump to a Mill, then two mill then 5 mill. Question; Is this all the development team can come up with? How about more ships? How about more systems? Instead of 800k free SP how about a whole slue of new ships that can be used by newer people or lower skills? I personally have been disappointed in the total lack of ships and one looking just like the other anyway. How long has this game been out, and this is all the ships they have available? Your kidding right? Too much time is being spent on the Glitter of the game and not the Guts of the game. New UI? Nothing wrong with the character creation mode I have now. How about 40 new ship designs. That would have been time well spent. How about an new Race? That would have been time well spent How about a new Faction? That would have been time well spent. Seems like all we are getting is a new Character creation UI and 800k SP for starting a new character. SONY buy the game already or something?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:39:00 - [92] 650000 SP not enought it is - 3 mil skillpoints more it is - interesting idea it is. New alts will boost the markets so not such a bad idea it is
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:41:00 - [93] Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne on 04/11/2006 11:53:11 Well, 12 days at worst and I have a pretty passable auxilyary researcher, capable to do scout work and giving about 20 research point a day. 2 extra datacores every month. With a bit of attenction and some +1 implants I can lower the time to train them a nice bit. As soon as they are awailable it will be time to flood the researchers. Resolved the problem of how to cover more research field. And the R&D lotto is even more s****ed as an alt character can enter it with no sweat. I am not contrary to the total number of skill available, it is the fact that they are stackable to level 5 with ease. The character generation system should be set up so to make a larger skill base, not some restrict field specialization. The Engineer example has Engineering 5 and Science 3, I still remember the feeling of having accomplished something getting to Enginering 5. And the new player, entering game with 800K SP in 5 minutes of character generation, then getting 20K SP every day in his best field, will feel he is getting somewere or feel he is doing someting wrong as he is growing so slowly?
MaD Missy Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:48:00 - [94] Say what? Is this real what I¦m seeing. WhyTF did I make character 2 months ago, when now I could just skip one month of skilling and I could¦ve fly a bs now. Then give all of existing players +800 skillpoints. This is just idiotic! The point of Eve at start is you slowly progress and are happy for every skill you train and then can use new stuff. By this, game really sucks you in. Now that a newb can start with 800k sp, there¦s no waiting, just get a little money and buy the best frig. Plus here comes the era of new uber alts. Doh! I hope this isnt happening. ________________________________ Sig here soonTM! :P
spurious signal Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:49:00 - [95] Edited by: spurious signal on 04/11/2006 11:49:52 This is a great idea. It makes the grind of learning skills a lot less painful for new players as they will have a character that can actually do something for the first month while the learning skills are training. It's a couple of weeks extra training, makes negligible difference IMO. Anyone who thinks the difference between a vet and a n00b is anything to do with skillpoints doesn't really know what EVE's about. Experience >>>>> SP's I give this idea a 10/10 and hope it'll help encourage more new players to stay with EVE past the first month. edit: And anyone who's got a char with less than 800k skillpoints... well, just reprocess that biomass and make a new one when this goes live
Epidemis	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:53:00 - [96] Mehh, I started eve 3 weeks ago :(
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:55:00 - [97] I will add this new character creation system into the list of "wish they'd thought of that earlier" features, like universal ship skills (destroyers and battlecruisers). Great boost for new people, but I am going to feel awful having to tell my newer members that their 400-799k SP character they have been training on for a month or more are worse than what you get out of the box now. I dislike the idea of the good gameplay choice being to delete the character you have been pouring your play time into for weeks, or just deal with less SP than you could otherwise have a few clicks away. I'd like to see some sort of template applied to the newer characters (anyone under a SP cap) raising their skills up to what the new choices would have, if they are less, and leavingthem be if the existing character has more in a given area. In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU.
Norris Leet	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:17:00 - [98] Originally by: spurious signal Edited by: spurious signal on 04/11/2006 11:49:52 It's a couple of weeks extra training, makes negligible difference IMO. Anyone who thinks the difference between a vet and a n00b is anything to do with skillpoints doesn't really know what EVE's about. Experience >>>>> SP's I give this idea a 10/10 and hope it'll help encourage more new players to stay with EVE past the first month. edit: And anyone who's got a char with less than 800k skillpoints... well, just reprocess that biomass and make a new one when this goes live .l.. to mr vet. To those of us who have started within the last month, this DOESNT encourage me to stay with EVE past my first month. And I would say a "F" you to throwing away time and effort into my char. I haven't seen CCP once answer any questions in the forums here since I've started, and I really do feel (from what I've read on the forums and talked to old time players) that they don't give a rats ass what the players want anymore (unless its going to make them more money)
Logan Xerxes Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:26:00 - [99] I like this change. It'll allow me to use my two extra char slots for something useful. And to those who just joined? Re-Roll and be happy Hell you've got more of a head start than I did. "Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu
Nir	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:28:00 - [100] As someone who has created 2 new characters on seperate, paid for accounts in the last month.. I'm seriously **ed off. What is the point of painful skilling, constant logging on for skill switches weeks on end when someone can now achieve the same results through char creation? This is pretty **** up, excuse my French. Thats two accounts i'm closing today.
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:29:00 - [101] Edited by: Niding on 04/11/2006 12:31:17 Its not a good idea. As has been mentioned; -Creates perfect gankage disposable characters. -Empire Griefers -Unfair for the ppl that started before Kali If this really goes thru, I want 800 000 skillpoints on my char aswell. Not that it matters much, but still, its only fair. People points to the learningskills being a major hurdle for newbies, but i disagree. I did them in steps. Got my battleship before i did the lvl 5 learning skills (basics) so I could do stuff before I spent the time to get into adv learning skills. As someone said, its the first step to stupidification of EVE. People will start to expect more and demand more for free. It might sound a bit elitisic of me, but the newbie weeks of EVE is part of the darwinistic natural selection. Either you have the patience to deal with the relativly slow starting weeks, or you can go back to Quake for your quick fixes (i love quake btw so its not a flame bout that game)
Admiral Pieg Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:34:00 - [102] If ccp are smart this is the ONE thing that they DONT change due to veteran whining. This is the stuff two of my buddies have been waiting for and god knows how many other newbies. ______________ Pod from above.
Elmicker Gallente Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:37:00 - [103] being only a 6 month old player myself and having a new industrial alt, this is really annoying, i could have shaved a good month or two off each of their training times with these new setups, or just not had to sit there flying a teeny T1 cruiser while doing a month of learning skills. Though, at least new players won't have to sit through all that, so this'll probably bring more new players into the game.
Trahern Twrgadarn	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:37:00 - [104] Great idea, was going to train up an alt but will now wait a while. Hopefully this will get some fresh blood into the game, I do feel sorry for the reccent noobs though. Saying that, they could always create another alt if they don't have enough SP and work from there I know this is kinda harsh and understand how attached you can get to the time and effort put into your game/char, but at least it's another option open. Quote: Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:41:00 - [105] Guys honsetly, Granted we got super Gank squads now, but with some tweaking I am sure it will be wonderful. Look at these guys, what I think is that you should just let them fly a frigate well, and have a little bit of skills scattered around. No need refinning 5, but say refinning 3 and Minning 4 ----------- Management and Leadership
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:41:00 - [106] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 04/11/2006 12:49:24 **** im deleting my 3rd account, ill wait for Kali Edit: Level 5 skills is actually a bit too much tbh, they should get a good stack of level 1 to 4's though. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:12:00 - [107] Haha.....i guess this cuts down the already short time for calderies to get raven and torps......Congratz CCP :)
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:13:00 - [108] Is not this a bad idea? Alt abuse is already a bane for EvE. Do we need to encourage it further, day trader, remote buying/selling, high sec suicides, hauler alts, corp/alliance proliferation ...? --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Minith Jin Amarr Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:16:00 - [109] In general I like the idea. I think CCP implemented this to make life easier for noobs starting out. BUT it does come with the problems of spamming effective alts, already setup to do just about anything effectively. ------- Killing innocents since Jan 06
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:28:00 - [110] My 3 yr old alt has 28k SP. And I trained him a bit as well. Do I dislike the fact that I have to train him 3 weeks to come to par with a freshly started character? Not really. But I just think the boost is a little too much and not helping newbies. Its nice CCP thinks about the newbies getting started up fast but this gives the people who recycle alts on a weekly/monthly basis a better opportunity to train up griefing alts. The real newbies do need their time to learn the game anyway so they really don't need all those lvl 5 skills anyway. Let them figure it out for themselves.
Acwron Minmatar Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:31:00 - [111] Edited by: Acwron on 04/11/2006 13:32:18 I think that this is a great idea for newbies. BUT the option to get 800k SP should only be avaible to one Character slot per account in order to prevent alt abuse. When one Character has more SP than say 600k the option is not avaible anymore. Otherwise the best strategy for a new player would be to create 2 Chars right away. One main he is skilling (learning or others) and a mining character to make money in the mean time. I don't think that would be good for the game of the "optimal" way to start the game would be to create two chars. One could obviously think of numerous ideas for alts for veteran players aswell. This should be prevented!
Odd Bob	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:36:00 - [112] Anything that helps new players get a foothold and access to content quicker in this game is a big step forwards, its about time Eve came out of the stone age. Personally id also be quite happy seeing learning skills done away with despite having about half of my maxium current skill points in them have completed the adv ones to 4 and everybody getting +10 on each stat too at charactor creation, though i doubt CCCP have the balls to do it.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:37:00 - [113] I support this. Why? 1. I don't see this affecting me, or 98% of the established podpilots (outside of it making it a little less annoying to create alts on secondary accounts) 2. Starting in this game is dull enough as it is. Not being able to use or fly anything at the beginning is a little annoying. I myself just trained up an alt into relative usefulness; the million skills needed to train from scratch drove me nuts. Only thing I see about this is that zero-day alts will become much more useful. It won't change the alt scout phenomenon, but we might get a surge of suiciders until people are reminded how recyclings alts to dodge CONCORD is a bannable offence. ---- +/-50% - Coming soon.
Karunel Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.04 13:41:00 - [114] Perfect, newbs shouldn't have to train for weeks before they can actually start enjoying the game. Thumbs up for CCP for daring to do this, although it sucks for "recent newbs". They can always rerroll tho. Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:00:00 - [115] Originally by: Acwron Edited by: Acwron on 04/11/2006 13:32:18 I think that this is a great idea for newbies. BUT the option to get 800k SP should only be avaible to one Character slot per account in order to prevent alt abuse. When one Character has more SP than say 600k the option is not avaible anymore. Otherwise the best strategy for a new player would be to create 2 Chars right away. One main he is skilling (learning or others) and a mining character to make money in the mean time. I don't think that would be good for the game of the "optimal" way to start the game would be to create two chars. One could obviously think of numerous ideas for alts for veteran players aswell. This should be prevented! /signed a new player or character started from scratch can have a "enhnced" start up, but after at least 1 existing character in an account as reached a set level of skill point (1-1.5 millions) the enhanced start up option should be disabled. there will be abuses the same, but a lilittle more hard to implement.
Rslorien Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:15:00 - [116] Edited by: Rslorien on 04/11/2006 14:17:37 i think this is a good idea give some free SP to the newbies, but why not give those SP in learning they will do the rest the we all did, let them train whatever they want. i dont see the point of giving lvl5 small guns to a pilot if they dont even know what ammo use for specific range, or even worst lvl5 mining and refining skill (macro miner you are now welcome to EVE). Its nice to help new player to come to eve but dont give them all just part of it let them spend time training and trying to discover what they wanna do and what works beter. So CCP give free SP to all new player.. nice :) and what about the old ones that have been around for a long time or even for a short time ? Do they get anything ? if CCP you give something to everyone that comes to the game i think the ones that are already in should also get something.
Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:17:00 - [117] Originally by: Nir As someone who has created 2 new characters on seperate, paid for accounts in the last month.. I'm seriously **ed off. What is the point of painful skilling, constant logging on for skill switches weeks on end when someone can now achieve the same results through char creation? This is pretty **** up, excuse my French. Thats two accounts i'm closing today. Hi Nir.
Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:20:00 - [118] Edited by: Altai Saker on 04/11/2006 14:22:20 The solution is clear, give everyone a free 800k sp. :D Seriously I would love to be able to fly all the inties :D
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:21:00 - [119] " -Creates perfect gankage disposable characters. -Empire Griefers -Unfair for the ppl that started before Kali " The first two are connected and are a bannable offence so kudo's to who ever does it. And unfair yes a bit.But at some point CCP had to try and make it better.Not let the same problem keep happening.Some need to stop being greedy about SP and think whats going to be better for the game. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:21:00 - [120] 800 sp will make newbs have a real abilitys instantly. problem is trial acount spy alts are al to easy no give them the ability to fit and fly even basic ships properly will make this worse. if ccp whants to give 800K sp to newbs then they need to just give the aditional bonus of sp to everone in gang then its fair newbs can get in the game straight off and vets dont lose out! ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:28:00 - [121] /me approves of this SP generosity from CCP MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:38:00 - [122] Originally by: Nir As someone who has created 2 new characters on seperate, paid for accounts in the last month.. I'm seriously **ed off. What is the point of painful skilling, constant logging on for skill switches weeks on end when someone can now achieve the same results through char creation? This is pretty **** up, excuse my French. Thats two accounts i'm closing today. If that's how you're going to react to a change that affects only people that haven't made a character, how do you handle actual rejection? Or paying tax? ---- +/-50% - Coming soon.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:59:00 - [123] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/11/2006 02:10:51 WHAT?!!!! 800k FREE SKILL POINTS?! Man the newbies who just created characters are gonna be angry. Come on this has got to be fake. i know i'm pretty ****ed, and my main is about 3 months old. i wonder if they will give "free" skill points to those who just miss the cut off by a little while? and no, i'm pretty sure it's not fake ========================================== Iy
egarum	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:00:00 - [124] theres a few problems whit this mod and theres also a good part about it we need 2 look @ it for what it is 1st its unfair 2 noobs that started pre kali and old players becouse u will be granted free SP in areas that are not main conserns if u say give them 800k sp @ start sure cool make it so it help ppl start the game but do NOT give them Gunery rank 5 etc almost @ tech 2 equip give them 800ksp on learning skills rank 4 frig and distribute the rest on some tanking skills etc min req stuff 2 do lvl 1 missions and keep lvling ure learning skills this idea on the long run speeds up the learning curve on the new chars and does not let a new char overkill in low sec a new person whit 1 or 2 months ......the idea is supose 2 make it easyer 2 new players no **** off old ones + it will make frig tech 2 an almost standart 2 lvl 2 missions its like forget about cruisers just get AS and u set lol afther kali u will make 1 alt 2 refine ure items 1 de sell ure stuff 1 etc (ALT fest if this change remains like this) 2 sum this up i am all forward 2 the increased SP on new chars and 2 make this game easyer @ start but i dont agree whit the choise u have 2 use those SP u get @ start u CCP shoed limit it 2 lvl 4 skills and make it more spread out not so focused on a smaller nr of skills give them a learning skills SP boost for all i care those suck 2 do and help alot DO NOT GIVE THEM LVL5 skills in areas of combat mining trading etc that is unfair......
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:08:00 - [125] I didn't go through the entire post so it may have been brought up allready (5 pages allready hehehe) but i was just wondering if anyone knows why ccp would implement this? did they give a reason? Please note that i'm not speaking out pro or con this atm, atleast not till i know why ccp would feel the need to put this in. Banner will be updated shortly
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:14:00 - [126] th advantage of this is new players can really start having some fun for day 1 not waiting a week for basic frig + weapon skills this is good they just need to mirror the sp boost to all players then its fair so no one can moan and we can all have fun ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:14:00 - [127] Originally by: 000Hunter000 I didn't go through the entire post so it may have been brought up allready (5 pages allready hehehe) but i was just wondering if anyone knows why ccp would implement this? did they give a reason? Please note that i'm not speaking out pro or con this atm, atleast not till i know why ccp would feel the need to put this in. I'm more interested that if they do implement this, would anyone who started before this get a boost? I know most people 10m+ SP wouldnt feel the effect of a 800k SP boost, but anyone below that would (especially my less-than-mil-SP self). Any official word from CCP is needed on this, since this is a bigger issue to newbies than the Warp to 0km topic that many veterans are more worried about. Oh and a reminder: New players = new subscriptions = more cash. But if: Semi-new players + Newer players with more SP to start off = Semi-new players leaving = less subscriptions = less cash. I think I spelled it out clearly enough.
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:23:00 - [128] hm true, it may help to entangle newbs faster in the world of eve, but these screenies did look a bit over the top, i mean completed L5 skills? that can't be real? i do think it would help if they gave the newbs the learning skills atleast to L1 allready (and for the makers sake give newbs a basic explanation on what learningskills do for them) but giving new players L5 skills completed... thats going too far impo. Banner will be updated shortly
Cadman Weyland ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:24:00 - [129] Great idea by CCP. Ive been playing over 3 years and had forgotten just how bad it was slogging from scratch. Recently i started a new char and its all come back to me. With these changes the new players will at least be able to do something. Starting as u do at the moment is so soul destroyingly boring and cannot be good for keeping folk in game. Good call CCP.
Kion Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:27:00 - [130] I think this simply suck's We have put our game time in to get skill points and others come in and get them for free Why not give them a few million isk and a BS to start with also
Niccolado Starwalker Syncore Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:28:00 - [131] First of all, 1 mill SP is nothing in the grand scheme of things. But for a new player its quite a lot! Now new players can be useful from the start of! However, maybe some modification...? Let ONLY 1 out of the 3 characters on the account get 1 mill SP to start with. and let the 2 other characters thats often called throwaway characters start with lets say 100k SP. That way you wont have too advanced throwaway characters/suicide gankers etc. This is a good move CCP!
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:36:00 - [132] in principle i think it's a great idea, not to sure on the impact it will have on the economy due to an isk sink being removed tho... ---------------------- [FTEK] Pwning Eve Carebear Style
Clayton Macintyre	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:39:00 - [133] Well jeez. I've been playing for a month and just recently broke 1.2 million (started at 30-50k)... after a MONTH! And since I've trained learning skills, that means a day old character will be a better pilot and fighter then me, at the moment. Meh.
Daelin Blackleaf	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:45:00 - [134] It's all starting to remind me of a certain bank advert here in the UK. Achura, new customers only. Khanid, new customers only. 800k bonus SP, new customers only Ignoring the above points about gank alts and other abusive uses of alts (which are very valid but already well covered) I have a number of other issues with this. Having such skills at the beginning of a characters career lessens the value of those who choose to train towards corp management, refining, and research. Knowing any new char can do a reasonable job of these out of the box is kind of disappointing for those who specialise in them. (Yes I realise it's only a small amount but, for example, do those with maxed refine skills really want to see everyone refining their own stuff?) We all start Eve as nothing, an insignificant speck, and we have to earn our usefulness and respect, this is major part of Eve's charm at all points in ones Eve life. That said I see no problem with allowing new chars an increase in starting ability, in fact I agree with it in principle just not in the way it is being done on SiSi. Hauling, mining, learning, electronics, engineering and other common (some would say essential or universal) skills make fine additions to a new characters early career. Making new characters useful to their corps is great, but allowing new players to jump into a t2 frigate, fit t2 modules, or become proficient in a specialist career track within the first week lessens the "elite" feel of such equipment and skills. As for the new(ish) bloodlines, I wait and pray for DNA mutators to allow us to alter our attributes (and perhaps even appearance). Such things should not be achievable overnight of course but it would lessen character regret amongst those who made poor initial choices. In summary, in your efforts to please and attract new customers do not make it "appear" that you are neglecting your established player-base.
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:52:00 - [135] I would just like to point out that there's a very high likelyhood that this will not be going live and is most likely just for testing purposes. It's a common practice on MMO's to give players who participate in testing boosted characters. Nobody's pointed out that on Singularity everyone's rigging skills are at level 3, and their salvaging skills - regardless of pre-reqs.
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:54:00 - [136] To all the newer people: I do feel for you. But... think about it. Were you kind of annoyed that you had to train boatloads of skills to even be moderately good? Had to pick up tonnes of basic skills to use things like cap rechargers and such? CCP needed to impliment some n00b help at some point. Yes you guys did get unlucky by your starting time, but this was a needed change. Most people that start to play get mad at the fact they can't do anything, especially the learning skill mongers. (On a side not, your skills should look like that before you start wh***ing learning skills). Yes it's tragic. But just make some money. If you're learning learning right now... STOP! Get some decent skills, fly around in good ships, be able to make decent money, THEN train learning. Then when they new chars come out, you'll have much more experience than them, and will know where things are, what buttons to what. You'll have a major edge over them, even if they have close to your sps. This is a much needed change, if it's implemented. I have friends that won't play because they can't really do anything for the first week except mine veld in a velator. Note: Any attempts at hijacking this sig will result in a brutal slap with a large trout.
egarum	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:54:00 - [137] espcialize a char in someting in day 1 is just plain wrong a few months ago they gave us new bloodlines now they give more SP 2 starter chars i am thinking make and alt put its whit implants +4 on everything on those new bloodlines and u get a HAC spec char or something like that in a realy close time frame due 2 the increased SP in non char dev areas like gunery etc or u can make a mining or research char in a very short amount of time this is wrong in that aspect of it.. LVL 5 skills is something u work for they shoednt be instant u dont even need that for combat @ lvl 1 missions.... o yeah why does a noob needs marketing that high ? he doesnt have any cash @ start does some one know they gona mine @ day 1 ? do they know gona be pvp/pve directed ? this seems like an ALT related modification not rly noob directed one most new ppl join the game and they just start doing w/e skill they have not knowing what it will do for sure or what 2 do @ all ..mostly u have 2 tell them do ure learning skills etc etc etc they are stuck @ lvl 1 missions during those 1st skill for good becouse it takes 2 long 2 do learning skills that wont change @ all learning still need 2 be done or the char will gimped on the long run u will be stuck @ lvl 1 or lvl 2 for a long time and u wont know what 2 do @ start game like before what will this modification do ? 1st increase the nr of alts 2nd **** ppl off new ppl and old ppl becouse an alt can use a AS / mine / trade in a few weeks etc 3rd it will not help new players much becouse they stuck whit the learning skills 1st i say increase the nr of sp on the learning skills alone and do not modifie the rest of the char criation SP thing that way u will be set 2 play this game in a shoter amount of time + u will also still have 2 work for the rest of the skills like before + give the SP dif 2 the other players that where playing eve PRE kali for them 2 spend in w/e skill this will creat a noob frendly EVE and not a ALT Frendly one and everyone will be happy 2
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.04 15:57:00 - [138] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker First of all, 1 mill SP is nothing in the grand scheme of things. But for a new player its quite a lot! Now new players can be useful from the start of! However, maybe some modification...? Let ONLY 1 out of the 3 characters on the account get 1 mill SP to start with. and let the 2 other characters thats often called throwaway characters start with lets say 100k SP. That way you wont have too advanced throwaway characters/suicide gankers etc. This is a good move CCP! Train main on the 100k SP slot. The 800k SP slot for recycling periodic suicide gankers. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.04 16:32:00 - [139] Originally by: Akita T Don't poke me for the portraits/race/bloodline/attribute choices, those where knee-jerk reaction selections. What you DO need to see however is the TYPICAL END RESULTS for each and every of the 6 basic "career/specialisation" choices you get at creation time. Engineer Entrepreneur Executive Commander Prospector Soldier Special Forces Enjoy. Jeebus, 800k sps on a new char? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Takahashi Arran Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:14:00 - [140] the point of this is to make new players more useful in combat ect and allow them to have fun from the offest rather than spending days training up basic skills- i don;t see the problem giving existing characters the same no of Sp's "free" it would not defeat the point of this move at all and would keep everyone happy
Jin Jemai Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:40:00 - [141] I think it's a fantastic idea. As others have said, new players should NOT have to sit around with their thumbs up their butts for a month training learning skills just before they can enjoy the game. This lets them do stuff right off the bat, and work on the learning skills. And for those that just started recently, by the time Kali 1 goes live you'll have more SP's than what you would start off with by going with the new system. ----- Lighten up a little bit. It's only the end of the world.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.11.04 17:53:00 - [142] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory I would just like to point out that there's a very high likelyhood that this will not be going live and is most likely just for testing purposes. It's a common practice on MMO's to give players who participate in testing boosted characters. Nobody's pointed out that on Singularity everyone's rigging skills are at level 3, and their salvaging skills - regardless of pre-reqs. Your lack of a clue about EVE and what does & doesn't happen on Singularity and why makes me all warm inside MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.11.04 18:03:00 - [143] Originally by: egarum espcialize a char in someting in day 1 is just plain wrong a few months ago they gave us new bloodlines now they give more SP 2 starter chars i am thinking make and alt put its whit implants +4 on everything on those new bloodlines and u get a HAC spec char or something like that in a realy close time frame due 2 the increased SP in non char dev areas like gunery etc or u can make a mining or research char in a very short amount of time this is wrong in that aspect of it.. LVL 5 skills is something u work for they shoednt be instant u dont even need that for combat @ lvl 1 missions.... o yeah why does a noob needs marketing that high ? he doesnt have any cash @ start does some one know they gona mine @ day 1 ? do they know gona be pvp/pve directed ? this seems like an ALT related modification not rly noob directed one most new ppl join the game and they just start doing w/e skill they have not knowing what it will do for sure or what 2 do @ all ..mostly u have 2 tell them do ure learning skills etc etc etc they are stuck @ lvl 1 missions during those 1st skill for good becouse it takes 2 long 2 do learning skills that wont change @ all learning still need 2 be done or the char will gimped on the long run u will be stuck @ lvl 1 or lvl 2 for a long time and u wont know what 2 do @ start game like before what will this modification do ? 1st increase the nr of alts 2nd **** ppl off new ppl and old ppl becouse an alt can use a AS / mine / trade in a few weeks etc 3rd it will not help new players much becouse they stuck whit the learning skills 1st i say increase the nr of sp on the learning skills alone and do not modifie the rest of the char criation SP thing that way u will be set 2 play this game in a shoter amount of time + u will also still have 2 work for the rest of the skills like before + give the SP dif 2 the other players that where playing eve PRE kali for them 2 spend in w/e skill this will creat a noob frendly EVE and not a ALT Frendly one and everyone will be happy 2 Punctuation, capitalization, spelling, grammar, and paragraphs are your friends. I really had a hard time understanding that. And I really doubt they did this because people wanted better alts (If that was what you were trying to say). Note: Any attempts at hijacking this sig will result in a brutal slap with a large trout.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.04 18:03:00 - [144] AFAIK, all the extra SP is for testing purposes only. [ore mongers, recruiting]
ching'sta Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.04 18:19:00 - [145] Dont be silly now people its only 800k we talk here. Its a good thing geting people in to the game faster. And for those that think different start a new alt and PLAY with it not just skilltrain.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.04 18:34:00 - [146] I dunno, it's nice to give players a headstart in Eve, as there is a alot of trained needed until you really get to enjot the game. Personally, it'snot what I would have done. I would have simply removed all skills other than learning from the learning tab. Players would be compensated by getting 10 points to all attributes, minus what thy already trained (so if you have advanced perception to 4, you gain one free point). So it would be as if everyone had advanced learning at 5 already trained. Reason I would do that, is learnings, as well as advanced learnings, are kinda a prereq for no reason, as of now. You need them for no reason other than to get useful skills faster. This would speed up training overall, and remove skills that are only useful to obtain other skills. The stat lernings don;t unlock new mods to use, or new ships, or new implants, or anything. They are just extra junk thrown in, so should be removed, and every be treated as if they had advanced attribute learnings to 5 already.
Lady Loom Red Mercury Industries	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:02:00 - [147] Originally by: ching'sta Dont be silly now people its only 800k we talk here. Its a good thing geting people in to the game faster. And for those that think different start a new alt and PLAY with it not just skilltrain. "only" 800k is a big deal for anyone who started in the last two months (prolly more). I know in the long run such people will have more than these 800k, but think about it - why would anyone start EVE now, having to waste weeks on learning skills, or even basic skills (I personally refused to go all out learning in favour of more practical skills to level 3, max) just to see someone start a new char in Kali and get a lot of useful skills for instant use? The only way I know of to get a noticeable SP advantage for a pre-Kali newbie was to make a Khanid with 300k SP for Gunnery V, everyone else was stuck with between 10k and 100k seriously, I see that the "new player experience" needs a boost in EVE, but screwing not-so-old existing players is not the way to do it. If you played years a difference in 800k is no biggie, for someone who has 1-2 million after two months it is. And from what I learned about EVE and CCP in the about 3 months I play, they're certainly not gonna make the whole thing fair and compensate older players. [power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat]
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:16:00 - [148] make isk, get a feel for the game, transfer assets to newly created characters if it's more worthwhile, when new creation system goes in. Experience and isk is ust as important as SP
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:16:00 - [149] Originally by: Lady Loom why would anyone start EVE now, having to waste weeks on learning skills, or even basic skills (I personally refused to go all out learning in favour of more practical skills to level 3, max) just to see someone start a new char in Kali and get a lot of useful skills for instant use? If you start a char now, you will likely have more SPS than a new Kali char. And if you have less SP, guess what? You have ISK and equipment to give a new char you make, and said new char will have a leg up on others still. Once you have adv learning skills to 4, getting 1.5mil SP per month isn't hard, hell it's probably low, because a combat-char will have much better per/wil than say, my well-rounded char. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Tityana Gallente Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:23:00 - [150] If these are true, then this defeats the whole reason as to what the game means to me. I started playing eve because of the challenge, starting with nothing and building up to make myself a comfortable existance in game, my skill is all my own creation however right or wrong it may be. This is just too easy for new players... tell me.. Where is the challenge now? ♥♥♥
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:11:00 - [151] Originally by: Tityana Where is the challenge now? SPs do not make the game easier. However, being able to actually PLAY THE GAME when you first start, will be nice for alot of new players. It was 3 days before I could fly a merlin with non-civilian eq, that's a long, LONG time to new players. I like the fact new players will be able to actually play the game, however starting with level 5 in some skills might be a bit TOO good... Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Redwolf Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:26:00 - [152] Edited by: Redwolf on 04/11/2006 20:26:57 meh Originally by: HippoKing Who cares if the game is coming up. Forums are back \o/
Lady Loom Red Mercury Industries	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:06:00 - [153] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia If you start a char now, you will likely have more SPS than a new Kali char. And if you have less SP, guess what? You have ISK and equipment to give a new char you make, and said new char will have a leg up on others still. Once you have adv learning skills to 4, getting 1.5mil SP per month isn't hard, hell it's probably low, because a combat-char will have much better per/wil than say, my well-rounded char. that's not the point - right now you still waste your first month(s) learning basic stuff which allows you to enjoy the game - without those few hundred thousand SP in basics like engineering or mechanics (eg.) you can't fit your ship for ***, even though you can earn a million in your first week and buy any frigate + fitting you want. So why would you punish yourself with that "hard" (read: boring, pointless, frustrating) newbie phase if you knew in just a month or so you get it all for free? telling noobs to go for advanced training level 4s right away is a sure way to make a majority of them quit in disgust BTW, so I totally understand why they want to give players more powerful starter chars which can actually do something*, that doesn't mean I have to be happy that I could have skipped the newbie boredom if I just waited a few months before rerolling that character... [power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat]
Zurtur Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:14:00 - [154] The more i read this forum the less i like Kali. CCP, i hope it ends up being good, cause so far its not looking like it will. And I really didnt expect that. Z --- Reminder to all Icelanders - yes i know, and no it was not me who named this character.
Hypo Psycho Minmatar Universal Industries PLC.	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:54:00 - [155] I DONT LIKE IT, end of, full stop, finished done and dusted. "see you on the other side"
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.11.04 21:57:00 - [156] This is a good change, and yes I only started an alt a few months ago. Notice how they all seemed to end up with 800k skillpoints btw? I made an alt that started with 400k, my girlfriend made one that started with 50k. The old system was way to easy to min-max. Zarch AlDain
Skraelingz Gallente Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:10:00 - [157] i think its a good change for noobs, but i fear this will be to easily exploitable by more experianced players. what majority of new players are aware enough to take advantage of that kind of starting boost anway? -----------------------------------------------
Max Grief Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:21:00 - [158] yeah as someone pointed out this might just be a 'test only' thing and as thoes that have gotten into kali to do some testing will know, CCP has given all accounts Jurryrigging (whatever flavor) to rank 3 for all types of rigs (so people can test em) as well as Heavy assualt missile launchers to V and heavy assualt missle specalization to V as well too. I havn't noticed any other new skills in my skill list there might be more, but yeah this could just be a testing thing, so people can get a few alts with different specalizations to test new things. Well see though if this goes through, i'm not gonna put too much thought into this untill its a confirmed "going to sisi" all it means is ill roll all my tertiary alts for better skills =)
Tehyarec Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:26:00 - [159] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 04/11/2006 02:40:28 Hello, Kali isn't slated to get rolling for ABOUT ANOTHER MONTH, optimistically speaking. Meanwhile, everybody that starts NOW (or just started) can get ABOVE those 800k SPs by the time Kali enters service ... Geez, how retarded can SOME people react ? Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly.
Yumi Katanawe Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.04 23:31:00 - [160] 10 to 1 dragon franchisers aren't happy with the turnout and pressured ccp to do this in order to boost acc retention from kali launch which they will use to launch an ad campaign in china.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.05 00:00:00 - [161] seems kinda hosed that a new player can be using T2 gear the first day of play. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
SunTzuRaven Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.05 00:08:00 - [162] So ccp can never make new players start any better? ________________________________________ <("<) <('')> (>")>
Lady Loom Red Mercury Industries	Posted - 2006.11.05 00:30:00 - [163] Originally by: SunTzuRaven So ccp can never make new players start any better? sure they can, but I don't think screwing with the starter skills is the way to do it - what about generally shorter skill training (at least for certain skills) which allows everyone to profit? I'm sure they can come up with something more useful than "here go get your T2 as a newbie"... [power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat]
Ratsock Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.05 01:05:00 - [164] I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind... Can someone confirm?
Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.05 01:14:00 - [165] Originally by: Tehyarec Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly. I don't see how you are screwed. If you started a month before Kali and your character is not up to what a new Kali character can be, why not just reroll once you install Kali? Not only do you have the 800k SP but you also have a month of experience, ISK, and assets to back it. Where is the problem? You are STILL way ahead of the person who starts the day of the Kali release. ================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War: Views of a Few
Adoran Wa'alle Caldari 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.05 01:21:00 - [166] Originally by: Zhelavar Originally by: Tehyarec Consider this. To close the SP gap, you have to train a month. You PAY to play that month. You pay to make a worse char than you can make out of the box in Kali, not to mention that character won't be nearly as useable during that time as the new ones will be. So basically if the SPs aren't given to older players retroactively, you screw new and new-ish players very unfairly. I don't see how you are screwed. If you started a month before Kali and your character is not up to what a new Kali character can be, why not just reroll once you install Kali? Not only do you have the 800k SP but you also have a month of experience, ISK, and assets to back it. Where is the problem? You are STILL way ahead of the person who starts the day of the Kali release. Take my situation. I can either pay for an alt account now and waste my first payed month to get up to par...or I can get a month worth of training without paying for that month. saves me 15USD ----------------------------------- Rawr. awrarawr!
Xeoz The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 02:16:00 - [167] This is a great idea. It will help get the newbie's active faster. As it stands right now a new player cant do much of anything. The best they can hope to accomplish is the tutorial and the easiest level 1 missions for the first few weeks. This change will help to attract, and even more important, help to retain new players. The ability to continue to attract and retain new players is the foundation that will keep eve around for years to come.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.05 02:17:00 - [168] If everyone gets an extra 700l or so skillpoints to spend as they wish, I would be ok with 'helping' the new players, as it stands, it is unfair to other players. Make it optional if people feel like they are charity. I would argue the same if CCP changes the attributes also, adding and subtracting skill points and attributes directly changes the way the game is played. So CCP, the game is hard, we all play it becuase its hard. Those of us who survived the first few months in eve are your fanbase. Catering to the 'I wonder if this game is good' player is not what I though CCP would be interested in doing. - Give us the difference in SPs or don't do it. Double standards are simply not nice to those of us who spent the time traing the skills. ---
Karoth Tyu FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.05 02:41:00 - [169] Maybe I'm a goob, but I kinda like the idea I can make a new alt and have instant access to T2 guns on it
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.05 04:52:00 - [170] Appart from true newbie's, i fail to see how this is unfair to anyone. If i train the right skills my main will get a mil SPs in 20ish day. My alt in 17-18 days. It hardly effect's me in anyway. If i had a new character with less SPs, i'd even go as far as to just make a new char and train the skill's i needed anyway. It's not 'sissification of eve' the gap between newbie's and 'Vets' is getting bigger every day, the time it take's to get 'into' eve to compete take longer than it used too. This helps it somewhat. The only thing i think is maybe slightly broken is that char that can already use T2 small guns. I think that's a little out of whack TBH.
Secretary Bargain consumables	Posted - 2006.11.05 06:14:00 - [171] out of the box character than can use tech2 small guns probably can't afford the guns, or the ammo. Disposable combat alts sound like fun to me. Can't see the problem with it tbh apart from a bit of disparity between people who start in the weeks before kali goes live and those who start new characters. For those throwing their toys out of the pram because it's just "not fair" on all of us who had to work 26 hours a day and eat cold gravel while we lived at the bottom of a hole under a lake to get where we are today... well eve is hard. Live with it or don't. It may be just for testing, it may be for real but i suspect that CCP in their infinite wisdom won't give the new players enough cash to cover clone costs on those SP.
Amarr Nite	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:21:00 - [172] WTF is everyone ***ing about? As the game goes on and everyones SP goes to 50-60-70mill its natural that the starting SP will go up, This has nothing to do with being "fair" to older players but the right thing to do to increase the games appeal to new folks. If you started a toon a 1-2 months back and are ed big ** life isnt fair, This is totally needed in imho and i've been playing for three years.
Radix Salvilines Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:33:00 - [173] Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 05/11/2006 11:33:34 Nice - it will cause peoples sitting in stations with their mains while fights will be only done using alts. Whats the problem when the alt can already use some good equipment? Blah... this is so... unfair...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:40:00 - [174] Originally by: Amarr Nite WTF is everyone ***ing about? As the game goes on and everyones SP goes to 50-60-70mill its natural that the starting SP will go up, This has nothing to do with being "fair" to older players but the right thing to do to increase the games appeal to new folks. If you started a toon a 1-2 months back and are ed big ** life isnt fair, This is totally needed in imho and i've been playing for three years. Agreed. Although it would be IMO a good idea to limit the areas where you can put the SPs in. A new char being able to get some of his learning skills up right at the start = good. Being able to setup an t2 destroyer suicideganker alt without a days training = bad. (yes, I know it gets prosecuted, but I have my doubts that everyone doing that is catched)
G Dabak Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:12:00 - [175] So to the people whining that they made their character a month ago: should CCP never implement this then, because there will always be that set of people who could have come out slightly ahead by waiting? Should all new players go without this advantage forever just because you did? Or should CCP spend a bunch of man hours awarding everyone new a couple hundred K SP? You can't just drop SP on people, it has to go into things, and as far as I know there's no mechanism to automatically distribute it like that.
CamelKnight III Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:56:00 - [176] You're nuts. With 800k new players aren't new at all. They even have lvl 5 skills! 800k takes me over 1 week to train, while I'm implanted and fully trained in advanced learning skills. CCP have clearly gone mad. I just hope they realise soon enough that this is NOT the way to attract new players or guide them through the first few weeks.
Lady Loom Red Mercury Industries	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:59:00 - [177] Originally by: Ratsock I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind... Can someone confirm? from my limited testing (the test client times out at login 3 out of 4 times for me and the queue is long enough as it is...) that holds true and means a newbie ultimately gets 4 attribute points less than a pre-Kali character, and it especially affects newbie training times because the difference between 10 and 12 in, say, perception is a lot more noticeable than between 20 and 22 (eg.). I hope that's an oversight rather than intended or that shiny new "you can get 800k SP" system nerfs new chars in the long run... [power corrupts, absolute power is kind of neat]
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.05 13:32:00 - [178] i realise this comment is totaley useless but...... HOLY ** ON A ******* SANDWICH! --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Acwron Minmatar Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.05 15:34:00 - [179] Originally by: Lady Loom Originally by: Ratsock I just noticed something. When creating character, and you choose the +2, 3, attributes associated with each 'family', it appears to give u the bonuses in the form of learning skills. I tried to make a character and found it started with a number of learning skills trained without having a boosting effect on the attributes. If this is the case then its a major DISadvantage as over time these new players will fall further and further behind... Can someone confirm? from my limited testing (the test client times out at login 3 out of 4 times for me and the queue is long enough as it is...) that holds true and means a newbie ultimately gets 4 attribute points less than a pre-Kali character, and it especially affects newbie training times because the difference between 10 and 12 in, say, perception is a lot more noticeable than between 20 and 22 (eg.). I hope that's an oversight rather than intended or that shiny new "you can get 800k SP" system nerfs new chars in the long run... please fill in a bugreport
Necronus Amarr Monks of War	Posted - 2006.11.05 15:57:00 - [180] I think its a good idea,but too imbalanced right now. Giving noobs a 5 lvl skills is not a good idea. And 800k seems too much. I think if you reduce it twice and restrict to 4 lvl max that could work out.
roBurky StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:50:00 - [181] This looks awesome. I've always had a problem when inviting people to play Eve. I could say "Yes! Come play Eve with my corp. Unlike other MMOs, you can play with the veterans as a newbie. You're always a useful member of a gang." But it's a bit of a lie, as you need to do quite a bit of initial training before you can take part in pvp. I'm a bit disappointed to see that they haven't added propulsion jamming I as an inherent skill. That's always the first hurdle when a new player wants to join the corp's combat gangs. ---
Karoth Tyu FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:07:00 - [182] All this really does is allow new players to jump into combat right away instead of waiting through the first few weeks of grinding and mining while skilling up. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:10:00 - [183] Originally by: Karoth Tyu All this really does is allow new players to jump into combat right away instead of waiting through the first few weeks of grinding and mining while skilling up. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:15:00 - [184] I was initially against this idea, but I slept on it and have come to the conclusion taht it is a good idea. It's too late for my main (Amarr: Amarr: Fighter preset) who has just over 1 mil SP, but it will do wonders for when I start my second account to mine with in a retriever :).
Arii Smith	Posted - 2006.11.06 01:15:00 - [185] While this idea seems nice, I see a lot of trial account throw-away alts that exist to abuse a ton of free skillpoints. I am also REALLY bitter because I have been sitting in a ** station for a month and a half getting my learning skills before I go out and do anything. It is pretty **ty that I could have saved a month by just holding off.
Daddy Pop	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:15:00 - [186] 800K eh? Boy, that sure makes suicide kestral alts a lot easier to make.....
Rasputin Jones	Posted - 2006.11.06 02:44:00 - [187] Until I trained my first L5 skill, I thought it was a near-impossible feat and would take me forever. Giving new players a boost like this will help alleviate the "oh my god, this will take me a freaking age" problem that new players have with long skill training. Just because those of you against this concept are veterans and didn't receive the same privilege doesn't mean that you should be contesting newer players' access to it. You did your first 800k SPs the hard way. Good for you. Things change. Be good sports about it. R
Cerenkov Caldari Vogon Deconstructions Inc	Posted - 2006.11.06 03:13:00 - [188] Originally by: Karoth Tyu All this really does is allow new players to jump into combat right away instead of waiting through the first few weeks of grinding and mining while skilling up. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Hooray! A voice of reason! With some people now having upwards of 50M SP, i see no issue in letting new players start with some skills that are actually useful. Most of the complaints here seem to be mainly due to jealousy, the whole 'i didn't get that, so why should they?' line of thinking. This should let people jump straight into the best parts of eve, without having to go through that ridiculous phase at the start where everyone tells you to train up your learning skills. Oh what an exciting fortnight that was...
Claussen	Posted - 2006.11.06 04:07:00 - [189] I don't like it. Now anyone that mines will FEAR with the new round of insta-Macro-Killers who kill indiscriminantly. And don't give me that crap about jet cans. There is no way around it. Will mining die? Prolly not for MM's.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.11.06 04:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Karoth Tyu All this really does is allow new players to jump into combat right away instead of waiting through the first few weeks of grinding and mining while skilling up. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. its unfair to everybody that had to go thru that early grind to get where they are now and tbh there are enough alts already without this take a look at soldier... thats not a noob anymore gunnery 5 small projectile 5 rapid firing 4 and more and i can think of any number of ways it will be abused taking the soldier specifically,a corp could get all its members to create an alt like that and like magic there is a whole new corp in existance with servicable combat ability imagine what goonswarm could do with something like that this is wrong imo
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.11.06 04:57:00 - [191] well the only thing this will accomplish is getting newbies into big ships they can't afford to lose faster and making them quit from frunstration.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:53:00 - [192] What I'd really, really like to see is some THIRD choice to each of the three "schools", where you'd get two L5 attribute skills (those "most relevant" to school), L4 learning and L3/L4 in the remaining 3 "basic" learning skills... and not much else. Now, THAT would really be another MAJOR improvement. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Rezerwowy Pies Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:20:00 - [193] Edited by: Rezerwowy Pies on 06/11/2006 11:24:08 If CCP really give all new players a 0.8m sp account (very unfair idea, shows that CCP dont like older players), also should rise cost of advanced learning skills from 4.5m isk to ~25m each, and 'learning' skill to around 4.5m isk. That accounts from start will be 2-3 weeks ahead and make that money will be really easy. And rest people with thier older accounts should also have way to add 0.8m sp in some way. -- Why some admins can't do that
Milena Marich	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:22:00 - [194] Edited by: Milena Marich on 06/11/2006 18:23:20 Why do not they give older players 500k SP gift? Since I am account owner this is my main, so where is my picture?
Malakai0 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:28:00 - [195] Nothing should ever start at 5, period. Getting a skill to 5 means you have mastered it completely, and it should take a week to get it there... _________________________ - We are Eye Of God, being so, we see the big picture. - Axiom is a self-evident truth upon which other knowledge must rest AND if its not self-evident to you, thats what
Ionstream	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:45:00 - [196] Edited by: Ionstream on 06/11/2006 18:45:56 surely the poor players who sign up just before the move to kali will be pretty annoyed to see that their 10k sp character whilst being a day older than a post kali player is 790k behind him already.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:34:00 - [197] Edited by: Zoxia on 06/11/2006 19:37:54 I love this and think its a great idea. Not only will more people keep playing others will follow. Be prepared for 40,000 users online at one time!! YAY I get to reroll my alts !! BTW: Its not unfair at all. you have the right to roll a new character just like anyone else does. Also the newer players can make alts easier and try more aspects of the game much quicker. Its a WIN WIN unless of course you choose to WHINE WHINE. And with the new HP increase this is needed beleive it or not. Saying oh gee its unfair to every single new thing they do is getting old. If they listened to the whiners the game would be stuck and stagnant. Keep up the good work CCP your on the right track.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:42:00 - [198] Originally by: Perrault Ill drop my account that I just bought a week ago if they do this. I don't support companies who give their players the shaft. Can I have yer stuff??
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:51:00 - [199] Edited by: Zoxia on 06/11/2006 19:55:28 Here are the top ten in SP um lets compare 800k to this. then goto the site and see the leaders in all the different skill groups. any one else hear a drop in the bucket?? http://www.big-sales.net/public/skills/ Dr Caymus (69,248,291) Zoltaris (59,567,932) Namarus (57,988,731) Momfer Undersand (57,367,655) Qual (57,286,645) Kain D'Worker (56,905,775) Drahcir Nasom (56,689,848) NTRabbit (56,343,638) Sewell (56,283,512) Fenian (56,212,693)
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:09:00 - [200] I think its a great idea and needed for the future of the game. "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:18:00 - [201] Is this for real? It would suck big time. As for the argument 'Well it takes millions of SPs to make a useful char anyway' - this simply doesn't hold water as it implies that the first 2 months of Eve aren't useful, fun, or part of the game in anyway.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:26:00 - [202] This is a good change. It gives all new players about the worth of two-three weeks for free above what they got previously. Two weeks with max learning skills, three or so without. I believe the popular level 4 frigate path gave you something just short of 250k skillpoints. In either case, will make those Ni-Kunni trade alts rather useful. Which sort of reminds me, if an Achura get level 5 Trade, what does Ni-Kunni get? Must mean they changed the bloodline signifying skills a bit - are Intaki still the EWar race of EVE? - Am I in the coolest alliance or what?
Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.06 21:42:00 - [203] Originally by: Ionstream Edited by: Ionstream on 06/11/2006 18:45:56 surely the poor players who sign up just before the move to kali will be pretty annoyed to see that their 10k sp character whilst being a day older than a post kali player is 790k behind him already. If that "poor player" isn't willing to give up that hard earned 10k SP in order to reroll the next day to solve his self-created problem, thenhe has worse issues to deal with than skill points in a video game. ================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War: Views of a Few
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:18:00 - [204] Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:22:11 Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:21:33 Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:19:08 Originally by: Zhelavar If that "poor player" isn't willing to give up that hard earned 10k SP in order to reroll the next day to solve his self-created problem, thenhe has worse issues to deal with than skill points in a video game. What about the guy who was at 790K and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the skill system? To me this move doesn't bring anything good to the table. Seems to be just way to appeal to the 'OMG I WANT THE SWORD OF L33T NOW NOW NOW I WANT ME ME ME' WOW crowd, and that's about it. Edit: so far the only argument for 'it's a good thing' has been that 'people will save a month' - what kind of logic is that? In that case give them 50Mil SPs upfront and let them 'save 6 months'. Know what I mean? Slow skill learning, long travel, heavy death penalty, non-consensual PVP... is what makes EvE what it is, which is the best MMO on the market today. Please don't remove those important features.
Novan Leon Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:28:00 - [205] I'm pretty sure the 800k skill points is ONLY for the test server. If I can find the reference then I'll post it here.
Illistar DeathWing	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:28:00 - [206] It's a slap in the face, people who are at 750k will have just wasted a month or more of caracter training and be BEHIND someone who just started. Arent you sepose to reward dedicated players more then newbies? This reminds me of cellphone companies. They always offer shinny new toys to new costumers, yet they wont give anything to the loyal older ones.
Illistar DeathWing	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:29:00 - [207] Originally by: Novan Leon I'm pretty sure the 800k skill points is ONLY for the test server. If I can find the reference then I'll post it here. they said that for warp to 0 km too.
Skybar Minmatar Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:01:00 - [208] Edited by: Skybar on 06/11/2006 23:03:36 now I havent read all posts, but the first two pages. But perhaps this is another step for CCP to get more people to play Eve? Currently, the 14-day trial is boring as hell since you dont have any skills to fly anyting decent. If trial pilots would obtain more SP at start, it would make more people interested, Eve make more cash from subscriptions and we obtain more lag. Sounds evil. Please make sure we don't lag ass before luring more people into the game. CCP, we do love you, don't make us hate you, it's bad mkay? :) edit: Just wanted to note aswell that some of those pre-set chars started with Daytrading, a 12M skill. Those 12M can be tough to invest when you are a early trader, so it doesn't feel alright. It's unfair! Boo-hooo. "Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy"
Illistar DeathWing	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:05:00 - [209] Edited by: Illistar DeathWing on 06/11/2006 23:06:24 I don't mind that new players will start with 800k as much as I mind players who started not long ago wasting a month of training. How about is ccp gives double training speed (untill 700k sp is gained) to those players who already have caracters to compensate?
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:19:00 - [210] Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 23:19:18 Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 23:18:51 I'll add more to this, because it's such a bad idea on so many levels it takes more than one post to detail it all. 1) What about the fact that people actually paid for month of subscription to gain those 800K SPs which are now made 'worthless'. Why were they worthless in the first place? 2) Does it mean CCP is basically saying 'our gameplay sucks below 800K sp' 3) I cringe just thinking the abuse this is going to lead to with alt characters and so on 4) Back in the days I remember a lot of people complaining that a) training took too long and b) traveling took too long (no warp to 0). The answer from the dev and the the majority of the community was 'that's the way it is, that's what makes eve what it is'. Why the sudden change of tune? Why what was 'game mechanics' 2 years ago now have become 'bugs'? 5) I don't remember A SINGLE THREAD clamoring or was the title of this thread implies 'praying' for the beginning SP to be raised AT ALL. Instead I hear a lot of people complain about lag, maybe that's something more important to focus on?
Sulzanti GoonPlatoon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:34:00 - [211] Have they changed skill requirements in Kali for processing skills? The "Prospector" character build has Veldspar, Omber, Scordite, and Plagioclase processing, but doesn't have Refining Efficiency which is a prerequisite.
qvacky AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:31:00 - [212] I'm still not seeing any valid arguments apart from the 'i didn't get it so why should anyone else' train of thought...
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:33:00 - [213] hey how come we all dont get tech 3 stuff too then?? man this is unfair!!! Come on grow up and take one for the game for a change instead of sucking eggs.
Ecnav Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:04:00 - [214] Why wasn't this around when I made my first character? __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ I don't have a sig
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:59:00 - [215] I cant login on the test server for a while longer, till I get back home from uni. So I would like to ask those who can - is it possible to start the new character with Electronics 5? instead of other lvl5 skills? If it is, then its very nice, will help make cyno alts simplier task as it should be. ------------------ Save Tranquility!
Tipz NexAstrum Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 06:41:00 - [216] Oh man I wish I saw this thread before I spent $15 on a second account... and plugged in 80 mil worth of implants. -------------------------------------------
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:17:00 - [217] Originally by: qvacky I'm still not seeing any valid arguments apart from the 'i didn't get it so why should anyone else' train of thought... Let me help you then: Quote: 1) What about the fact that people actually paid for month of subscription to gain those 800K SPs which are now made 'worthless'. Why were they worthless in the first place? 2) Does it mean CCP is basically saying 'our gameplay sucks below 800K sp' 3) I cringe just thinking the abuse this is going to lead to with alt characters and so on 4) Back in the days I remember a lot of people complaining that a) training took too long and b) traveling took too long (no warp to 0). The answer from the dev and the the majority of the community was 'that's the way it is, that's what makes eve what it is'. Why the sudden change of tune? Why what was 'game mechanics' 2 years ago now have become 'bugs'? 5) I don't remember A SINGLE THREAD clamoring or was the title of this thread implies 'praying' for the beginning SP to be raised AT ALL. Instead I hear a lot of people complain about lag, maybe that's something more important to focus on?
qvacky AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:24:00 - [218] Edited by: qvacky on 07/11/2006 07:24:51 1- 'i didn't get it so why should they?' worded differently 2- no, it just improves a lot, and expands what you can do. Most chars <1M SP are generally pretty useless. 3- oddly enough changes can improve the game. If this helps to get more people subscribing after their trial, i'm all for it. warp to 0 is irrelevant here, it hasn't even been confirmed its going to tranq yet. This doesn't speed up training time, it merely gives people a head start into the more interesting parts of the game. 4- gee, i think fixing lag may be a little harder to implement than changing the char creation trees. Regardless, the new creation process is much better than the old one and is well worth the dev time that was put into it. Still waiting for decent reasons as to why this is a bad idea...
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:50:00 - [219] Originally by: Samirol no, its not all about t2. A t1 fitted ship with a person that has experience will completely ***a ship that has t2 but inexperienced. Indeed. If your experienced enought to know CERTAIN bugs .. f.ex. if you go against ishtar, how to render it's drones do ZERO damage against you in ANY ship. "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö*" PERVS \o/*
Tehyarec Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:25:00 - [220] Edited by: Tehyarec on 07/11/2006 11:25:38 Originally by: Zhelavar I don't see how you are screwed. If you started a month before Kali and your character is not up to what a new Kali character can be, why not just reroll once you install Kali? Not only do you have the 800k SP but you also have a month of experience, ISK, and assets to back it. Where is the problem? You are STILL way ahead of the person who starts the day of the Kali release. So, you don't see it as a problem that you effectively waste a month's subscription to get somethat that you can have later without basically wasting that month? Weird logic. And no, you're not really ahead much. A new char wastes most of the first month with learning skills, while the new char only needs to buy a couple of skills to be able to do a lot of stuff and can then have fun while training the learning skills. At any rate it's like buying a new car/whatever while knowing that there'll be a newer better model coming next month with a lower price tag. And just to clarify, I do think that the suicide-whatever-alt issue aside it's good new players get a bit more skills to start with, but if it is done at the expense of existing characters, then it is simply wrong.
Shin Mai	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:42:00 - [221] the system is good as it is, u can already start with more then 250k sp, if u can start with 800k the empire will be flooded by pirats, just creating a new char, fly to empire and hunt all noobs, or even bs with T2 equip, after 5 min they are able to kill bs's, and finally some 1-2 months old chars will be really ****ed off.
qvacky AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [222] then maybe its not the character creation thats broken, but rather the game mechanic that allows such easy suicide ganking from low-SP characters?
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [223] Fantastic news! As a CEO I'm delighted. I think it means that new players actually have some very useful skills to contribute to a corporation right away. It also makes the long slog doing the learning skills much easier for a new player to do when they can actually use some modules to begin with. The people whining about super-noobs and such...I hope their day old characters with tech 2 guns on their frigates pod you over and over. Nice work helping the young'un's out. Though something I'd still like which is removing alt characters on the same account will probably get worse when people get more 'free skills' they never have to train on their main. Traders/Refiners I mean.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:10:00 - [224] Easy and fair solution, just give all existing players 800k SP to assign themselves. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Grimarm	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:11:00 - [225] Makes sence for them to do this. Its all about making money and keeping the game going. Any game that progresses over time begins to get a large gap between the long time player and the new players. If something is not done to to give the new people a chance to be viable they won't stay the game dosn't get an influx of new players and begins stagnate. I have seen it happen to other great games. You want this game to prosper and have folks to play with suck it up and deal with it or eventualy you will end up with a dead game.
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:13:00 - [226] Originally by: Shin Mai the system is good as it is, u can already start with more then 250k sp, if u can start with 800k the empire will be flooded by pirats, just creating a new char, fly to empire and hunt all noobs, or even bs with T2 equip, after 5 min they are able to kill bs's, and finally some 1-2 months old chars will be really ****ed off. Mod this guy up! This is yet another good reason why this is a bad idea. It's going to be griefer paradise, just alt-suiciding in high sec over and over again. If you mention that recycling alt is against EULA, well so is macroing and we all know how good CCP is at stopping that.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:20:00 - [227] Lets see..... first year bottom......top second year bottom.......................top third year bottom...................................................top If they dont do any thing fourth year bottom...............................................................................top fifth year bottom..........................................................................................................................................................top I think you get the idea.
Valerii Zarek	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:21:00 - [228] Originally by: qvacky 2- no, it just improves a lot, and expands what you can do. Most chars <1M SP are generally pretty useless. I beg to differ. We all agree a 'useless' character wouldn't be fun to play. We all agree it takes a month to get 1M SP. So basically what you are saying is equivalent to: "Eve gameplay sucks for the first month, and the dev decision to change the min SP is proof". Well sheesh, why didn't they advertise that on their homepage for the last 3 years "Hear ye, Hear ye, Eve sucks bad for the first month, the free trial is useless, no fun to be add. Signup NOW!". I bet they would get loads of customers that way. Plus, if you give everyone 800K SP, surely all you'll end up with the first month of skills acquired from 800K SP onwards 'useless', too. You're just moving the 'bar' elsewhere, but it still exists.
Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:06:00 - [229] Originally by: Valerii Zarek Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:22:11 Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:21:33 Edited by: Valerii Zarek on 06/11/2006 22:19:08 Originally by: Zhelavar If that "poor player" isn't willing to give up that hard earned 10k SP in order to reroll the next day to solve his self-created problem, thenhe has worse issues to deal with than skill points in a video game. What about the guy who was at 790K and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the skill system? What about him? Not only does he have the skills, but he also has a month's practice of gameplay knowledge and skill to use them. Originally by: Valerii Zarek To me this move doesn't bring anything good to the table. Seems to be just way to appeal to the 'OMG I WANT THE SWORD OF L33T NOW NOW NOW I WANT ME ME ME' WOW crowd, and that's about it. Your contentions are from the viewpoint that since you only started with 2 cookies, the new kid shouldn't get 3 - that would explain the use of such exaggeration and unnecessary capslock. ================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War: Views of a Few
Deiqanah	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:26:00 - [230] This is because of 11 new mechanics skills that are seeded into every character for playtesting. Salvaging and 10 rigging skills all at level 3. Since the Bloodpatch the asian characters can have one basic skill at level 5 at generation. Achurans can have Science at 5, Khanid can have gunnery at 5, I think the Intakis are supposed to be able to have Industry at 5 and the Vherokhier's (?) can start with trade 5.
Deiqanah	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:30:00 - [231] Also for the purpose of playtesting I think they should equip all characters with more skills, especially all new skills. In general characters have been able to start with around 300k skillpoints for 6-7 months now. You just have to find that one skill that can start at level 5.
Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:54:00 - [232] Valid points, Valerii. Point taken. ================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War: Views of a Few
FawKa Gallente Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:14:00 - [233] "WTF" was the first thing tbh now where is the dev-response?
MaD Missy Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:13:00 - [234] Originally by: Valerii Zarek Originally by: Zhelavar Your contentions are from the viewpoint that since you only started with 2 cookies, the new kid shouldn't get 3 - that would explain the use of such exaggeration and unnecessary capslock. and all that matter is 'beating the game' as far as poosible. To hell with the journey, what matters to teens is the 'destination'. Fast Fast fast, me me me , in all caps, yes. So far 'end game' hasn't been an issue in EVE, I hope it stays this way. Yep, I really hope they don¦t give away that 800k just like on the market. In case they do that, I want my 800k sp!!! RAWRGHH ________________________________ Sig here soonTM! :P
Great Guardian Minmatar Resurrection	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:53:00 - [235] Edited by: Great Guardian on 07/11/2006 19:53:41 I have been paying subscription for every week I have been playing so far, so give me 600-700k SPs and I will be fine. " I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Hah! Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams, glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments.... will
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:01:00 - [236] Originally by: Tipz NexAstrum Oh man I wish I saw this thread before I spent $15 on a second account... and plugged in 80 mil worth of implants. If Kali is released 3 weeks or later after your character was created, you will have trained past the new skillpoints. Don't worry about it, really. It's a lot more skillpoints compared to the previous starting amount, but it's not very much training time. P.S. Someone said "and have them start with 100k ISK or something", that's not beneficial. The CSPR charge was increased to prevent ISK seller spams, increasing starting ISK would defeat this change. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what?
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:43:00 - [237] Can someone answer my question in post 223 please? ------------------ Save Tranquility!
Don Hicks Dirty Labs	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:58:00 - [238] Originally by: Grimarm Makes sence for them to do this. Its all about making money and keeping the game going. Any game that progresses over time begins to get a large gap between the long time player and the new players. If something is not done to to give the new people a chance to be viable they won't stay the game dosn't get an influx of new players and begins stagnate. I have seen it happen to other great games. You want this game to prosper and have folks to play with suck it up and deal with it or eventualy you will end up with a dead game. I agree , new players need a chance, and if someone created a character couple months ago and got less then 800k rps then i suggest to start a new one (yea i know what about lost couple months? well u gained a lot of eve experience ) Anyway i have another issue. There will be a lot of few days old alts with lots of sp. I already see kamikaze gang squads in high sec. I think CCP should consider removing alts, or in other words, only 1 character per account Dirty Labs, part of Capital Trust
Daniel Jackson Caldari Department of Cold Nuclear Fusion	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:05:00 - [239] i think it would be fare to give any new players 1mil sp because, well 1mil sp isent that much compared to the most of eve, and the noobs well ther soo far behind, they reallt nreed that much sp when they start. c-mon, we had like what 3 or so years of trainign time and they had like no time to trane, lol ___________________
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:20:00 - [240] I tested this on day bloody one of kali and of course it was identical to the RMR one, so i see this post and think it has to be fake (didnt read all the posts) I just logged in sisi again and as constructive as this isnt, all i can say is. Bloody hell! Ebay Maestro Ulv then and specialise out of the box? I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Troia Dante	Posted - 2006.11.08 05:38:00 - [241] I'll throw my 2isk in I suppose. I think this is a great thing for eve. It will attract a lot of new people and the current newcomers may end up enjoying it too. Put it this way. Learning skills are boring as all hell to train. Everyone knows this, but it's a pseudo necessary evil in order to not be pulling out all your hair later in the game to train skills. So 800k sps means what exactly? To me it means that while someone is training up learning skills they will actually be able to have fun in the game too. Which in the long haul means that more newbies will enter the game and stay and that vets who want to try a new flavor will be able to do the same.
TheDevilsJury principle of motion R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.08 06:37:00 - [242] Edited by: TheDevilsJury on 08/11/2006 06:39:10 I see this as a good thing that has to be balanced veerrry carefully. Please limit this to no lvl 5 skills. T2 for the newb is not optimal because a) they can't afford it to begin and b) they have nothing to work towards. A good array of lvl 1-4s is best. The same can be said of our current post-blood patch bloodlines. Re-balance them so lvl 5 skills aren't possible. However I would like to see between 600k and 800k of lvl 1-4s be avaliable for your average newb. The current starting skillpoint system: -makes the game really boring for the first month or so for newbs -means that you get a "rich get richer" thing happening as the game progresses. The starting point has stayed the same and the maximum possible point keeps on going up. While this isn't a horrible thing, I think the game has progressed enough that there should be a small change. As for the current people who are "getting the shaft"... here's what you do: -Continue to earn isk/train until Kali goes live on TQ -If your SP is still less than a starter, transfer your assets and isk to an alt. -Delete your current character. -Create a new character with the same name once the biomassing is done. (or a better name, which can be done instead of biomassing) -Transfer your assets and isk to your new main. Yes you do lose out but you don't get this disasterous shaft that everyone's been complaining about. Most of your hard work is saved too. I've found that after the first month isk is far more restricting than skillpoints. You've got a large isk advantage, an even larger experience advantage, and the same or more skillpoints (especially since you know which way to choose in character creation) Now if they change the starting isk of a new character you'll see me here yelling and screaming. ^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.08 10:51:00 - [243] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 08/11/2006 10:53:48 Originally by: TheDevilsJury Please limit this to no lvl 5 skills. T2 for the newb is not optimal because a) they can't afford it to begin <agreed!> and b) they have nothing to work towards. . Overall I agree with your post - I think we all recognise that the newer player need to be more useful and fun to play to begin with especially now with a much higher average SPs. The point quoted above however - I strongly disagree with... They mostly start with 2 lvl 5's if you look at the screenshots - these are fundamental ones for their roles and actually allows them to be useful to corps or in the game straight away. If I'm not mistaken they potentially can only use afterburner II's and miner II's at creation. Hardly a massive advantage! I also suppose that from what you said - your character is 'complete' now and has nothing to work towards since you can use some tech II kit? Nonsense. I suspect the concern for most people comes in that they are 'close' to having the skills for tech II small guns. Something that is hardly relevant because it is very unlikely they would be able to afford to use (& regularly lose tech II's) on their tech I frigates. Also with the HP boost, warp to 0km etc - tech II smalls are not as effective anyway - especially not with such poor support skills. The only people who can feel justifiably aggrieved are those who join a week or two before Kali and dont reach the 800k mark in time. They lose 2 weeks of 'getting ahead' of other noobs in terms of SPs...But what is worse, they will have to sit through days/weeks of game/server instability until it is properly working. On the whole though it is obviously a good thing and will no doubt increase the numbers of happy newbies which as has been highlighted earlier - is good for us ALL in the long run.
Elune Ferret Gallente Valley Forge	Posted - 2006.11.08 13:18:00 - [244] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss On the whole though more skills for new players is obviously a good thing and will no doubt increase the numbers of happy newbies which as has been highlighted earlier - is good for us ALL in the long run. I will Agree on this I recently created an alt to overtake my year old main(I've created the perfect setup for overall skill training). But this alt woun't really be "playable" for the next 140 days or so it'll take to complete the entire learning tree. So my solution is to play with my current main(Stop training her), while I have my alt training skills and doing non skill required things. This will go on for atleast 2007(I could ofcourse just buy another acount, but I don't feel I've got the money for that). Around the start of 2008 I'll have 2 nice charaters on the same account, both very playable. And I don't lose actual fun time ingame becourse I already have a nice char to play with while training the sub. My 2nd. isk goes toward wether we should upgrade the neebs some way, I'd suggest we once yearly or every 6th. month revised the gap between the average vet and the average noob. and had that gap be some what constant %'wise. Like Highest skillpoints on a char now is 70 million or so, Let's say the average vet sp is around 50 million, well have noobs start with what 50k sp (Example). Then next year the average vet migth have 60 million sp's, well then have the average 1 day old guy have 60k sp. as for isk, standing, loot or what ever ingame resourse that's not tied directly to RealLife time, well anyone have equal opportunity to gather that over time spend in game. Don't start bumping starting Resourses like isk or standing. I hope I make sense, I tend to have a fluttery mind. Still waiting for ingame voice, with voice mods.
Taltoss	Posted - 2006.11.09 02:44:00 - [245] Originally by: Karoth Tyu Maybe I'm a goob, but I kinda like the idea I can make a new alt and have instant access to T2 guns on it Me too! I can't wait to make one of those Min guys, train briefly for a claw and go killing things I don't understand why the tears are flowing on this issue, it just makes the first couple of weeks interesting instead of tedious IMO
Ecky X	Posted - 2006.11.09 02:55:00 - [246] Edited by: Ecky X on 09/11/2006 02:55:25 What I'm having trouble understanding is the mindset that "A month's worth of playing is wasted." What the **** do you play the game for? To train skills?
Psychus	Posted - 2006.11.09 05:18:00 - [247] Well I tested a new char on test. Started with 800k sp. Did 2 mission and looked at my char sheet, and I had 3mil sp...including heavy assault missile training AND specialization at level 5. Did not even have the prereqs. Also had lvl 3 in all the "rigging" skills... go figure.
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc. THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.11.09 06:01:00 - [248] ^^ cus of the need to test those modules.. to the op, i dont like it. but keep them pillows under the noobs arms. when did eve become this soft?
Drutort Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.09 06:22:00 - [249] this change is fine, i dont see a problem... why does everyone cry about it... i have lots of sp of course and started 1 month after game went live and was in beta... that was then this is now... the game has to change how many expantions or patchs we had? its about time they fix it up for new ppl... i just dont like this being abused for alts thats all here is an idea... 1 char per account to have this 800k sp.. other alts should start at maybe half or less sp... that would be great this would really give NEW players what they need and not exploited by alts.
Spaced Skunk Yesodic Nomads Corp	Posted - 2006.11.09 11:24:00 - [250] Its good. I remember when I started EvE I had to wait 2-3 months for my learning skills to be done. Newbies are gunna be able to do something at least while they are being done.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.11.09 19:20:00 - [251] I like this change. Give new people a better start into this game, very nice. And corps will like it as well because noobs can do useful stuff now from the beginning.
JP Moregain Gallente EVE Reserve Bank	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:18:00 - [252] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/11/2006 02:10:51 WHAT?!!!! 800k FREE SKILL POINTS?! Man the newbies who just created characters are gonna be angry. Come on this has got to be fake. Don't worry DS none of them will come with forum ****ing trained to level 5... http://www.evereserve.com
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:25:00 - [253] Originally by: Max Grief yeah as someone pointed out this might just be a 'test only' thing and as thoes that have gotten into kali to do some testing will know, CCP has given all accounts Jurryrigging (whatever flavor) to rank 3 for all types of rigs (so people can test em) as well as Heavy assualt missile launchers to V and heavy assualt missle specalization to V as well too. I havn't noticed any other new skills in my skill list there might be more, but yeah this could just be a testing thing, so people can get a few alts with different specalizations to test new things. Well see though if this goes through, i'm not gonna put too much thought into this untill its a confirmed "going to sisi" all it means is ill roll all my tertiary alts for better skills =) Where? No missile skills for me. Probably gifted a specific day you were capable to log in and I wasn't or changed from a old skill (look if you are missing something).
Messerschmitt facility Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:25:00 - [254] WTF? I don't care about the 800k SK they get, but I care about the high skills they are starting with! Once they hit up their learning skills and puts implants theil get 25% more SK than me. I demand my base skills be increased! _________________________________ A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:25:00 - [255] A more useful comment: I really hope the raise the base skillpoint of the alpha clone, or those 800K characters will lose the skillpoint VERY fast (3 day?), the first time they are killpodded. And you can be sure that a nood with no knowledge of the game will pass trough some bad sistem following the autopilot.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:41:00 - [256] all they reallyhave todo is make the tutorial go through and insure the character for 800k exp to start. After looking at htese starting characters again and the number of higher level skills it makes me think this is just for the test server. but who knows? Limit Book Marks HERE!!!
Wong Luchan	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:14:00 - [257] Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne A more useful comment: I really hope the raise the base skillpoint of the alpha clone, or those 800K characters will lose the skillpoint VERY fast (3 day?), the first time they are killpodded. And you can be sure that a nood with no knowledge of the game will pass trough some bad sistem following the autopilot. As one of the newbies (just over a month now) I had this same thought, having been podded once already (bought a decent clone though), I cannot see it making a whole lot of difference to my main character just makes 'useful' alt creation a lot easier.I'm in this for the gameplay if I wanted power levelling I'd be in WoW.
Draegis Frost	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:41:00 - [258] To everyone that doesn't like this change: Forget your main character for a while, get a new character right now, and play him. Don't train skills while you're away, really play him like it was your first character. I can assure you, it gets on your nerves that you can't do anything good in the beginning. Don't understand me wrong, you don't have to give everyone everything on platter, but a game is supposed to be fun, even in the first few weeks. The steep learning curve makes it hard enough as it is, without having to wait a long time to try out some things.
Paradise Dreamer	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:11:00 - [259] That's make no sense. Most of players should forget about their characters, in that way : "Why I have to skill some skill (^^) for 30 days, if I can get the 5lvl of that skill by 2 mose clicks ?" It's the most idiotic and terrific idea I've ever heard
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:24:00 - [260] That is ridiculous! I created a new character 1 month ago. It is at 700 k SP now. So if this gonna be implemented i want a full month of my money back!!!
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:27:00 - [261] Originally by: Draegis Frost To everyone that doesn't like this change: Forget your main character for a while, get a new character right now, and play him. Don't train skills while you're away, really play him like it was your first character. I can assure you, it gets on your nerves that you can't do anything good in the beginning. Don't understand me wrong, you don't have to give everyone everything on platter, but a game is supposed to be fun, even in the first few weeks. The steep learning curve makes it hard enough as it is, without having to wait a long time to try out some things. Not true!! I play ina corps that collects only noob caharacters (1 week old at maximum) And we form up gangs of 6-8 frigates and go hunt at 0.2 and 0.3 from day ONE of theirs lives and Piratre in belts with very high sucessfull rate against older players. You can do a lot from day 1 !!!
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.10 13:43:00 - [262] Originally by: Polinus Not true!! I play ina corps that collects only noob caharacters (1 week old at maximum) And we form up gangs of 6-8 frigates and go hunt at 0.2 and 0.3 from day ONE of theirs lives and Piratre in belts with very high sucessfull rate against older players. You can do a lot from day 1 !!! Originally by: Polinus That is ridiculous! I created a new character 1 month ago. It is at 700 k SP now. So if this gonna be implemented i want a full month of my money back!!! Good work...sounds like you're having fun in your initial time in EVE regardless of your numbers of Skill Points. However it is a shame you completely contradict yourself by asking for a refund since you've pointed out yourself that SPs makes no difference to the fun gameplay you're having. You'll be well over a Mil SPs by the time Kali is delivered (and stable), having had fun, made ISK and gained experience that is much more valuable than SPs. You'll still be well ahead of the new starters. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
Krayd Devre	Posted - 2006.11.10 15:11:00 - [263] Wouldn't this make the learning curve of EVE even steeper to new players? I mean even if you pick pre-made packages of 800k sp, (without having a clue what the skills do) you find youself being able to use tons of equipment instead of getting started slowly with civilian ones. Think we would need an nber tutorial if we want new players to feel at home with 800k of skill points. O RLY?
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 12:34:00 - [264] No - the learning curve is exactly the same except they have more modules available to them. The potential for them to lose more ISK worth of stuff is higher...2 day old players using tech 2 guns deserve to lose them though if you ask me! - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
Xaat Xuun The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.11 22:49:00 - [265] I didnt read all the replies, but this would only hurt CCP. some PPL purchase another account, to build a alt, once alt has reached the skills needed (miner,Marking,ect) then just transfer to main account and close account. this just means less accounts needed to have a alt hauler, or miner. no more need to open another account, not when you just need a week to finsh the skills needed the skills for the alt miner
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 00:51:00 - [266] Edited by: Krist Valentine on 12/11/2006 00:51:29 LOL - their starting sp pwns. Still, that reinforces the idea that I'm definitely gonna wait till Kali to set up any alts I want to do :D - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.11.12 01:02:00 - [267] insta mining alts ftw
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.11.13 11:04:00 - [268] Nobody answered me yet.. is it possible to create alt with Electronics 5 ??? ------------------ Save Tranquility!
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:26:00 - [269] Doesn't look like it from the 'classes' chosen in the screenshots in the OP - but maybe in a custom build (I've not been on test). - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
Harry Struman The Kids in the Hall	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:19:00 - [270] I've been fiddling around on SiSi whenever I can and as far as I know it's not possible, but then again I haven't tried all the possible combinations. I must say that I'm a big fan of these new customization choices, especially if factional warfare comes out with this part of Kali. I can't wait to make a frigate alt right off the bat and be able to PvP without much extra effort. --- Kathy with a C(EO) - The Kids in the Hall That ain't the way I heard it!
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:32:00 - [271] Edited by: Asariasha on 14/11/2006 03:33:04 I don't understand people complaining about 800k SP while there are characters flying around in EvE with more than 50kk SP At the moment it is a pain in the ass for new starting players. The number of skills has constantly risen and it was only a matter of time for an overhaul of the character creation system. Other MMOs already made it easier for starting players so why shouldn't CCP do as well. I really welcome these changes, because they offer new players a more visual direction in which they want to lead their char. Greets Asa
Jintoi	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:37:00 - [272] Edited by: Jintoi on 14/11/2006 05:38:25 Edited by: Jintoi on 14/11/2006 05:37:47 Originally by: Xaat Xuun I didnt read all the replies, but this would only hurt CCP. some PPL purchase another account, to build a alt, once alt has reached the skills needed (miner,Marking,ect) then just transfer to main account and close account. this just means less accounts needed to have a alt hauler, or miner. no more need to open another account, not when you just need a week to finsh the skills needed the skills for the alt miner Think before you whine. This is a change to give more incentive to new people starting the game to carry on after 7 days and subscribe. When you start out you cant do much, in your first week you cant train much, the EVE official guide is written out like you are going to be playing for months however with training to learning lvl 4 advised first. People quit EVE during or after the trial because they have no skills and it looks like a daunting long road ahead to be able to use just a few of the ships and modules they dream of for whatever path. For an MMO to have longevity it needs to attract a consistant stream of new players, an MMO that just focused on its older players would become stagnant and die out, attracting new players is much more important than any concerns you think you have for CCP losing a bit of money from the few ppl that made a 2nd account to lvl up a miner and move them over. This is a good change from all views, if you can't see that then don't bother worrying about it as you can't grasp the fundamentals behind it.
Tronjay	Posted - 2006.11.14 08:57:00 - [273] I am 1 of the newer players and dont have to much problems with these changes, unless compensated in sp with the same amount on skills or skilltrainingtime. This would be fair and rightfull. I am training 2 chars on 1 account, if i would have known the new Kali char thing, i wouldnt have done that. So CCP, be fair and make the newer players not going to lose their faith in a fair universe.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:11:00 - [274] Originally by: Tronjay I am 1 of the newer players and dont have to much problems with these changes, unless compensated in sp with the same amount on skills or skilltrainingtime. This would be fair and rightfull. I am training 2 chars on 1 account, if i would have known the new Kali char thing, i wouldnt have done that. So CCP, be fair and make the newer players not going to lose their faith in a fair universe. Its not a 'fair' universe...When you look at tech 2 blueprints you'll work that out. Also - training 2 chars on 1 account - you've already shot yourself in the foot. I'm about a year old and I still feel a noob as far as SPs go compared to most of the people in the game even though I have 16 million. Sorry for your situation, but 'm 99% sure CCP wont be handing out any free SPs to anyone - best buy some good implants and ditch the 'alt' if you want to get more SPs quickly. Good luck... Vyk. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:27:00 - [275] Anyway its a perfe3ct way to make 1 moth old players feel cheated and think twic about contine theirs subscriptiosn (cince they didnt invested a lot yest.. but had already been completely equalized to a 1 day old player.
Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:10:00 - [276] Well there will always be a group of 1 month old players. So, should CCP wait another month or 2 or 3 month and then add this character creation system change? I think Kali is just the right time, because it's meant to be a renewal to EvE and there will always be some 1-onth old players arguing about this change.
Sharcy Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 13:25:00 - [277] In the Niagara of responses I might have missed it, but has any dev stated whether this new 800k character creation will be in the final release? --
Tzarr Inzaghi	Posted - 2006.11.15 14:37:00 - [278] Just my two cents, if this were to make it into Kali release I feel cheated. 800k is a lot of SP. I bet either it won't be in Kali or existing players will get compensation somehow.
Arondor GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:19:00 - [279] Sounds like a decent thing to do, a few people who just started will have the option of "rerolling" once they cross the 800k point, well they can always make an alt. Overall this seems like a good change, the "requiered to compete" level of skills keeps going up and us "veterans" don't really get hurt by having more new players enter the game (more populated low sec etc.) Of all the things to complain about in the upcoming Kali patches this wouldn't seem like one of them
Becham	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:45:00 - [280] I think if they are going to go this route, everyone should get 800k SP. Why just brand new Kali players? It wouldn't make year+ players much better, so the desired effect of getting new players into the action quicker is still there.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:49:00 - [281] At first when I heard that you get a free 800k sp I thought it was over kill but once looking at each of the set ups it turns the starting people into a specialist area to start, this would normally keep more people as they instantly have something they can offer to do in the game and not wait a month befor being able to. They have maybe one or two level five skills but only what they were focused and aimed at. In the end this would help corporations take in these new players because they won't slow down a corp and will have a job for them to do. A net win there, and from there new players not knowing how to fly these ships well this means the rate of parts and ships being totaled will increase greatly as they are emboldened from this. For the pvp aspect it doesn't make sence, say they so form a gang and start to go into 0.0 and start to fight and attack a older player, not even counting if they attack a vet, they will have a massive fight on their hands but being out number more then out skilled will the older player make a run for it which would be easy because these new players don't have the one major pvp skill, that skill is experience and will take a few losses. It's not like these new players can just jump into a AF as soon as they get on, it will still be some time, lv5 frig, mech and engin to fly them, so atleast about a month for those skills so they will be pvp in t1 frigs and destroyers. This also will get them hooked if them and their buddies gang up and go to low sec to start fighting, they will maybe get lucky and find a few carebears or mining ops with no protection and swarm them. t1 frigs with t2 small guns with t1 ammo. I don't think this would hurt many players at all unless they start say a few weeks before kali and CCP should give those members a free sp boost depending on their current skills a boost to a minimal of where the skills of the simular class that they picked. So they may gain 100k to even 600k sp gain when they get back online from the dayly down time. How does this idea sound?
Krayd Devre	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:18:00 - [282] Originally by: Jintoi Edited by: Jintoi on 14/11/2006 05:38:25 Edited by: Jintoi on 14/11/2006 05:37:47 Originally by: Xaat Xuun I didnt read all the replies, but this would only hurt CCP. some PPL purchase another account, to build a alt, once alt has reached the skills needed (miner,Marking,ect) then just transfer to main account and close account. this just means less accounts needed to have a alt hauler, or miner. no more need to open another account, not when you just need a week to finsh the skills needed the skills for the alt miner Think before you whine. This is a change to give more incentive to new people starting the game to carry on after 7 days and subscribe. When you start out you cant do much, in your first week you cant train much, the EVE official guide is written out like you are going to be playing for months however with training to learning lvl 4 advised first. People quit EVE during or after the trial because they have no skills and it looks like a daunting long road ahead to be able to use just a few of the ships and modules they dream of for whatever path. For an MMO to have longevity it needs to attract a consistant stream of new players, an MMO that just focused on its older players would become stagnant and die out, attracting new players is much more important than any concerns you think you have for CCP losing a bit of money from the few ppl that made a 2nd account to lvl up a miner and move them over. This is a good change from all views, if you can't see that then don't bother worrying about it as you can't grasp the fundamentals behind it. I think you're right. A mate of mine left the game during the trial because of two reasons: 1) he hated the travelling time (but honestly hes just a sissy ) 2) he felt like the game was only about logging in to train skills, because there was nothing his char could use. So yeah, It would definitely be easier on the newcomers. Originally by: Vincent Almasy At first when I heard that you get a free 800k sp I thought it was over kill but once looking at each of the set ups it turns the starting people into a specialist area to start, this would normally keep more people as they instantly have something they can offer to do in the game and not wait a month befor being able to. They have maybe one or two level five skills but only what they were focused and aimed at. In the end this would help corporations take in these new players because they won't slow down a corp and will have a job for them to do. A net win there, and from there new players not knowing how to fly these ships well this means the rate of parts and ships being totaled will increase greatly as they are emboldened from this. For the pvp aspect it doesn't make sence, say they so form a gang and start to go into 0.0 and start to fight and attack a older player, not even counting if they attack a vet, they will have a massive fight on their hands but being out number more then out skilled will the older player make a run for it which would be easy because these new players don't have the one major pvp skill, that skill is experience and will take a few losses. It's not like these new players can just jump into a AF as soon as they get on, it will still be some time, lv5 frig, mech and... wall of text O RLY?
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 18:34:00 - [283] Tbh thats too little for new players in the scheme of things today IMO. Id suggest giving newcomers 5 mills SPs fully customisable and then make a ladder thingy for older chars like 4 mill to second part 06 3 mill for 1 st part 06 2 mill for second part 05 and 1 mill for 1st part of 05 or something... and before you flame I am actually just about "vet-ish" in SPs so i dont stand to gain anything from this. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Pryce Czech	Posted - 2006.11.15 21:39:00 - [284] Soooo much jealousy for the noobs getting free SPs. Reminds me of raider vs. casual.
Tzarr Inzaghi	Posted - 2006.11.15 21:55:00 - [285] It's just the principle of the thing. We all pay real money to play this game. A month's worth of SP's is worth at least the ~$15.00 subscription not to mention all the time and isk spent getting that first 800k. Why not just give something to all the existing players prior to Kali's release. If like some of you are insinuating, it's no big deal, then it should be no big deal to compensate the existing player base. That argument swings both ways.
Inowen	Posted - 2006.11.15 23:26:00 - [286] Kudo's to CCP, this character was born June 16th so I am pretty new to the game but I know the training time on learning skills and others just to be able to play the game was a real targeting damper on fun. Alot of the people I have tried to recruit into the game just can't justify waiting that long to do anything even approaching a good time in game. To all you gimmie something whiners who have 800k+ sp's well I can tell you right now when it goes live you will have MORE than 800k and you'll still be ahead of those just starting out. SP isnt everything, this is a fact. But the SP gap is huge and even another 800k to make the game enjoyable for new prospective players isn't going to lessen that gap in any meaningful way.
Agrias Hellion	Posted - 2006.11.16 01:48:00 - [287] I think its a good idea. It will make alts easier to use for other players. It will allow new players to get stuck in. The most current piece of advice you see in the n00b corps, is max learning skills. All of them. This in itself turns a great game into a tedious one. Can't use or fit ships very well, can't use modules. Can't mine at your best, refine or produce. Basically nothing. Hopefully this will allow new players and old players create new characters and enjoy off the bat. Remember, new players will still need to earn isk and the ship skills don't look overly increased as they are now. Also when you think about it, is it fair a person can create a pilot character with 196k whereas a trader or miner could only have 50-60k base SP's?
Mineral Ore	Posted - 2006.11.16 02:19:00 - [288] Edited by: Mineral Ore on 16/11/2006 02:21:18 Edited by: Mineral Ore on 16/11/2006 02:19:49 Do we know if these skill points are for the test server only, or do we know for sure this is what New characters are going to start our with when Kali launches? I am one of the ones in the boat for keeping this new character for my alt or dumping him and waiting for Kali.. Good incentive for new players...drag for the almost new players.. Hence my question. Do we know for sure new players are going to start out with 800k+ skill points when Kali launches or is this for test server only? ..hate to get bent out of shape for nothing lol
Tricit Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.16 02:46:00 - [289] They need to give every player around 750k-800k SP points upon Kali release. Just train and 'Training Completed' in one second untill you waste 800k.
Rasputin Jones	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:13:00 - [290] Edited by: Rasputin Jones on 16/11/2006 03:17:40 Stop your whining, antiestablishmentarians. This is not the end of the world. If you're a veteran and can't stand the thought of someone getting a paltry 800k free SPs - make good on your general threats and quit, because the game will be better without pseudo-blackmailing brats ruining it. s "Well, if they do this I'll quit." Don't let the door hit you on the arse. Kthxbai. "Wahh! I didn't get it so nobody else can have it!" is the most stupid and grotesquely inane kind of logic to use in a situation such as this. Two people I know quit playing Eve after about three weeks because Eve is a crappy game when you're starting out and have less than 2m SPs. CCP are fixing it. There is a time and a place for everything under the sun, and the time to make the game playable and fair to nublets is now. Just to make another point: Veteran, disgruntled but subscribing = $130 USD p.a. Lots of n00bs, excited at being able to do stuff and subscribing = lots more than $130 USD p.a So who's the boss here then? Bah. Edit: Tzarr: You don't pay to train skills, you pay to play the game. SPs != Eve. If it doesn't cost ISK then it can't be translated to a sum.
Mineral Ore	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:35:00 - [291] Still no reply It would be beneficial to know if Kali was going allow players to have more skill pointÆs then current standings. It would be very poor form, from a personal stand point, to withhold this information to maintaining a steady newcomer base enlistment. However from a business stand point - not letting anyone know if the skill sets will change upon creation (when Kali is released) is a great way to maintain steady enlistment of new players and therefore maintain profit. At this point I will assume the later, as in most cases this doesnÆt define CCP as a non-considerate corp, but rather classifies them with 99.9% of every other successful corporation out there.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:29:00 - [292] Originally by: Krayd Devre wall of text I just wanted to get my ideas down befor I had to go to my next class, only so much time in comp labs. but if you read it you should get the point about this being good, more people, more money for CCP and hopefully better eve. It works out best for young or small corps getting young players.
Bruminor III	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:57:00 - [293] I didnt read the whole thread, so it may already be stated, but you can create a noob character right now with 305k SP.
Mari Onette	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:32:00 - [294] Sweet. I like the new UI. Mari here started with gunnery 5, and it was a tremendous help to getting into the game. It does kind of suck for people that just started playing and end up missing out on SP though. But if your character is that new, you could just make a new character and transfer your isk and items to it. And for all you people worried about n00bs ganking you cause of having a SP boost, have you considered that player skill and experience can count for quite a bit too?
Danjira Ryuujin	Posted - 2006.11.17 23:59:00 - [295] Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 18/11/2006 00:00:07 Originally by: Se'la Rox Edited by: Se''la Rox on 04/11/2006 10:49:24 While I'd agree that it's helpful for new players, it's more than a little galling for the recent newcomers (myself included) who'll now see new players instantly show up with close to half as many - or more - SP than we do after working hard for weeks. Letting time pass, and "working hard" aren't necesarily related. I started recently as well, and I dont why you folks are so upset. Even if you started 2 weeks before the expansion you could dump all of your cash, ships you've bought equipment etc. on the alt and end up getting possibly free xp. Its true your implants and faction gains would be wasted, but that would be easily recoverable if you are indeed new. Especially since you know about buying social skills etc. If you decide not to create an alt, keep in mind that new folks that start with "half as many or more sp" will still be noobs. You should atleast beat them due to player experience.
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:08:00 - [296] As a recent EVE adopter I'm also put off by this new creation system. Most of the replies to those upset are often along the lines of "Oh it's only 2 weeks" "Oh it's only 800k SP". Firstly it's not just 2 weeks as I attempt to illustrate here. 800k and some needed level 6 skills are nothing for the 5+ mil SP people b/c gasp they already trained those skills an no longer care. As to the rest of the arguments ("You'll have better isk/money/standing/understanding of the game"), you are not applying a valid argument. The issue is not how good I will be compared to new players, but rather how better off I would be if I had not given CCP my money for the last 2 months. I would have absolutely no problem w/ this new system if they simply didn't give players Level V skills right off the bat. Level V's dictate specialization...not archetype, not focuse but actual specialization and expert proficiency. Giving them Level 4's sure, no problem, but make them work for that last step like the rest of us. Coincidentally this would turn 800k SP into only 400k SP which is a much easier pill to swallow.
Protunia Gallente Horadrim	Posted - 2006.11.18 05:23:00 - [297] I think a character who starts GUNS/GUNS/GUNS is specialized. Same For MINING/MINING/MINING those characters by passed alot of other skills and balance to have a specialized character. So why not give them a level 5 skill? I dont even have gunnery 5 yet lol, but i like this new thing with the creation. My Character Stats
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2006.11.18 07:04:00 - [298] Originally by: Tzarr Inzaghi It's just the principle of the thing. We all pay real money to play this game. A month's worth of SP's is worth at least the ~$15.00 subscription not to mention all the time and isk spent getting that first 800k. Why not just give something to all the existing players prior to Kali's release. If like some of you are insinuating, it's no big deal, then it should be no big deal to compensate the existing player base. That argument swings both ways. You see, its not only the time lost in training, its the CASH as well. Can someone at CCP say something about this to end it all already??
Zxepa	Posted - 2006.11.20 00:05:00 - [299] Oh dear, ccp took my 15$! Let's see 15 x 30k players = !!!!! $450,000!!!! That's just active players :O! It'd be nice to have our missing 800k SP, please. Or could i have my 15$'s back? Hey, that's a nice steak dinner! (NO REFUNDS!) ;[
Equipment Warehouse	Posted - 2006.11.20 07:54:00 - [300] I don't know if this has been suggested (sure it must have been, but on a laptop / mobile phone atm) so apologies if it has ... ... but couldn't established characters get to go back to university to top up any any coarses that they missed? I mean, in terms of completing the 'new' character creation selection options to their new completion, along their existing selection tree's, to perhaps improve skill training awards that they might not have trained themselves, but then give them the same benefit as brand new players to the game. This will be of less benefit to long established players (but then the impact of these new character creation options will have far less of an impact on these players anyway), but might be of significant benefit to recently joined players? Just a thought EW
Ras Shiko	Posted - 2006.11.20 09:01:00 - [301] You know, with two accounts just getting on 3 months old each. I was burned by this when I first read it. It was very much like 'oh look, by sheer coincidence, if I had have stumbled onto eve later then sooner, I'd be a few weeks ahead.' But you know what? Yes, it's good. Because my first two weeks were boring as all hell. And the months I spent on learning skills? I would have loved to start off with a combat skill set and then worked on my industrial/learning skills. I honestly see this as a great thing, and I'm just over the 'cusp' of players this will be 'severely affecting'.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:57:00 - [302] not like starwars galaxies but still annoying.give a present to olders pls ccp.
Psym0n Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:47:00 - [303] Edited by: Psym0n on 21/11/2006 11:49:18 Noticed you can get Engineering V(8 days?), Mechanic V(8 days?) with one charachter selection, thats like 80% on the way to Assault Frigates from day 1? TO be quite fair, your now joining eve with 1 month free training, thats how i see it. Look at it as 1 month of playing, ú10, whatever. My sister recently joined the game, like just over one month ago, and the way i see it, i shoudl of made her wait a month, and she would be in exactly the same position as she is now, with some more knowledge of how the game works. Seeing people have starting skills like navigation 5(8 days?), afterburner 5(8 days?), its a bit shocking, seeing as my sister hasent even got them at 4. Common skills like Shield Operation at 3, hell its only 2/3 days, buts its 2/3 days a charachter created between 1st november and now has to train as it is a needed engineering skill. The only benefit the charachter my sister owns, is that it has its learning skills trained. But im sure id rather have some better skills from day 1, to fly my ships more effectively, go faster etc... and train learning up on the side, whilst having better base skills to run missions, earn money etc...
Admiral Pieg Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:37:00 - [304] Originally by: Ras Shiko You know, with two accounts just getting on 3 months old each. I was burned by this when I first read it. It was very much like 'oh look, by sheer coincidence, if I had have stumbled onto eve later then sooner, I'd be a few weeks ahead.' But you know what? Yes, it's good. Because my first two weeks were boring as all hell. And the months I spent on learning skills? I would have loved to start off with a combat skill set and then worked on my industrial/learning skills. I honestly see this as a great thing, and I'm just over the 'cusp' of players this will be 'severely affecting'. Heres one that sees the greater good and not just their own selfish needs. ______________ Pod from above.
TigCobra Battlestars Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:42:00 - [305] IMHO, that most new players leave the game within the first 2 weeks of the game, because they really cant do anything in the game, except kill noob rats, and then those are scarce cause there is 3000000 people in the character creation systems. I think it will be a good change, and it will keep more people interested in the game, which means more noobs kill for us veteran players that have put in the time, to get where we are today.
Mentor Grange	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:14:00 - [306] Originally by: Admiral Pieg If ccp are smart this is the ONE thing that they DONT change due to veteran whining. This is the stuff two of my buddies have been waiting for and god knows how many other newbies. This really makes me angry. The veterans are not whining. The veterans don't care about 800k skillpoints, since its nothing to them. People who've started in the past two months are the ones who care. Their efforts have been wasted. Sure they can start over. That's fair. CCP should give everyone 800K skillpoints. If you are new it will matter, and if you are old you won't notice. I don't want to start over because I like my guy...but he shouldn't be behind someone who started after him. Mentor
Mentor Grange	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:30:00 - [307] While I'm thinking about it, just how flexible is this? could i start with the 800K in learning skills, so that I not only have more points than a month old toon, but also train all future skills faster? This is not a bad idea, provided the 800K is also grandfathered to existing toons. Or, at least, to ones less than 6 months old, or something. Mentor
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.22 23:41:00 - [308] There has been mention that the Advanced Learning skills in Kali only require the basic learning skill at Level 4? Can someone comfirm? Better yet can CCP please release tentative release notes so we know what we're getting into w/out needing to pay to see how our characters are hamstrung? If this new advanced learning skill requirement is confirmed, it's kinda of an insult to the people who trained these skills, as the payoff of spending the 21.8 days training these skills is roughly 470 days (and yes this would primarily affect those who have joined in the last 6 months).
VeniVici	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:49:00 - [309] At least there is now some developer confirmation of the 800k SP and a reiteration of the Nov 28th release. No word on learning skills but it's probably a go. Good luck to all rerolling, and those unable to. I for one will be anchoring my assets in some secure cans in a belt , setting a nice 20-30 day skill, and not renewing my subscription until the smoke from Kali clears
Agrias Hellion	Posted - 2006.11.24 03:16:00 - [310] Only need learning four? Awesome I like it.
Ignatius Nemovski	Posted - 2006.11.24 04:22:00 - [311] I'm new and haven't payed for an account yet because I'm unsure if this game give a lasting challenge. I belive giving new players the possiblity of having level 5 skills out of the box is foolish. I play RPGs because I like the way they allow you to improve your character, giving someone high level skills to begin with just takes away from the game in my opinion. I want to feel like I worked towards a goal and achieved it, not to have that goal given to me.
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:50:00 - [312] Originally by: Ignatius Nemovski I'm new and haven't payed for an account yet because I'm unsure if this game give a lasting challenge. I belive giving new players the possiblity of having level 5 skills out of the box is foolish. I play RPGs because I like the way they allow you to improve your character, giving someone high level skills to begin with just takes away from the game in my opinion. I want to feel like I worked towards a goal and achieved it, not to have that goal given to me. Good for you! * applause * My Character Stats
Raging Strike Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:25:00 - [313] I'm really confused by people's anger here. When I started eve, I didn't get the best skills because I didn't know you were even 'given' any. Just reading the 'back in the day' thread, I'm feeling more sorry for those who opened with eve, than those who just started 1-2 months ago. I understand a month of play is an insanely high $15 (you can make that shoveling 1 driveway or mowing 1 lawn), but put it in perspective. When CCP gives to new people, they aren't stealing from the old. N00bs shouldn't have to spend the first month bored, they should spend the first month loosing ships due to inexperience, lack of funds, lack of 'down time' spent reading item descriptions (mainly from 'warp to 0k')... Now maybe you can see this isn't 'stealing' from the fairly new or old players - its stealing from the unborn...
Tyrrhena Maxus	Posted - 2006.11.25 20:36:00 - [314] you cant push n00bs higher without bringing the others who have just joined along for the ride aswell. not doing anything to rectify this gap that is going to exist between new kali and new post kali players is going to annoy the very people you want to join up! so you have 30 million SP already, sure your missing out on 800k worth of SP but this is obviously not about you. your already at the top of the food chain, and your always going to have an advantage. its about giving people who have recently joined and who will join in the future the ability to join in and play an more active role in the game. i have spent countless hours earning money for implants and training up my learning skills to be able to move forward quicker, so its not just a case of rerolling my character to me. 'if you dont like it leave' 'we got screwed with new bloodlines so you have to get screwed with the new SP base' arguements are obviously elitist opinions from people who dont care. save your effort typing as you are all just repeating your same nasty comments. new characters should be valued by older players, they arent just clogging up the servers, they are contributing to YOUR experience by being the small fish for you to eat. also without new people signing on whos going to replace the people that do leave? the more people that join the more money that is made and therefore the better the service becomes (in theory anyway). therefore i believe satisfying these players is probably more important than satisfying older players in order to satisfy older players. does this make sense? i think the way to solve this is to boost characters under a certain amount of SP up in relation to character age + current SP. so that players who just started a few days before a new kali player are relatively close to the same time ahead while a character that was created a week before the few days pre-kali player in this example, will be relatively infront by a similar amount. it doesnt have to be a perfect equal and fair way of bringing pre kali characters and new kali characters SP's inline, but they both need to be fitted on the same scale to smooth this transistion hiccup over to the majority of affected players level of satisfaction.
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2006.11.25 23:36:00 - [315] I think we should all look at the broader picture here. We're all getting the shaft, but the newer players are getting it less. Yes, LESS. Here's why: I created an Achura Miner. My starting skills are: Electronics 4 Electronics Upg. 2 Engineering 3 Shield Comp 3 Shield Oper 3 Gunnery 1 Small Hybrid 1 Industry 2 Mining 5 Pyroxeres Proc 2 Refining 5 Scordite Proc 2 Veldspar Proc 4 Analytical Mind 2 Instant Recall 4 Learning 1 Lab Op 3 Science 3 Frig 1 Space Cmd 1 Trade 1 I'm not going to complain too much about this. It SUCKS that I didn't start off with Mining 5 and have had to train that skill up, but I've done that already and I'm in a retriever, whereas the newbs are going to have to work up to it from the start. What I've got issues with is the changes to the advanced learning skills. You now only need level 4 in a learning skill to train the advanced version. In TQ, you need 5. So, a newb has the option (provided they get money from an alt / isk seller / friend / corp, etc) to get an advanced learning skill book and start training from the very beginning. Let's be honest, I think that sucks and I'm at the IDEAL position to benefit from it (all of my learning skills are at 4). Also, note that the Kali character has some mineral processing skills, yet doesn't have ANY training in refinery efficiency. Well, that's because mineral processing no longer has a refinery efficiency 5 requirement. It doesn't even have a refinery 5 requirement. No, it's got a Refinery 4 requirement. Again, I'm in a nearly perfect position to benefit from this (have refinery 3, I believe) What these changes have done is remove the requirement to spend time training these skills (and I'm betting that there are others that I've not noticed yet) up to level 5. That cuts a HUGE amount of time out of training requirements. Let's look at it this way. I'm going to say that it takes 6 days to take a skill from 4 to 5, and 8 days to go from 1-5. By changing these skills, CCP has just removed 24 days of training for advanced learning (4 skills x 6 days (not counting Cha), and 14 days from refining (6 for refining and 8 from refining efficiency), or unadjusted 38 DAYS of training time. That also doesn't include the training time saved by the boost newbies get, which I've seen some people say is equal to roughly 14 days. If that number is reasonably accurate, that's 52 days of training time difference between a newb and an older character, just based on the skill tree changes that I've seen. THAT'S not insignificant, unless you've been playing for a couple of years. Like I said, I'm in an ideal position to benefit from this on my primary account. And my secondary account is so new, I'll re-roll and not be bothered by it. However, this actually sucks for the new players
Leonardo Rambaldi	Posted - 2006.11.26 22:19:00 - [316] As a 20 day old newbie, I find this change distasteful. The message from the devs is that they simply don't care for newbies. As a new player, I'm appalled to find this is happening without warning. They knew about this a month ago, newbies creating then could have been warned in character creation. Lame. CCP go from being cool dev right down to the level of the devs who borked SWG. One solution - allow free training for newbies proportional to their age. Say 20k SP per day, which is what I earn roughly.
Sakitumi	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:30:00 - [317] Hola, Having a character who just hit 800k SP a day ago is like a kick in the teeth. My main profession is mining but was only trained up to lvl 4. I stop putting SP into my Main profession because I knew every minute spent on training anything other learning skills would essentially wasting SP/time. Which bring me to another point. So here I am with lackluster mining/refining skills and training up learning skills. I just got my first Level 5 skill! 2 days ago. Instant Recall V. I was stoked. I can finally train up Advanced learning skills! (here it comes..) Kali doesn't just give new toons better profession skills than I but Level 5 learning skills are no longer a pre-req for Advanced training. Kali/CCP is hitting me with the 1-2 punch here. 7 days spent training a lvl 5 learning skill to gain 1 point of memory when I could have skipped it and gained 4 in less time. So what does this all boil down to? How can I minimize the chunk of time that has been wasted? I will do what the vets are doing.. Create myself an alt with 800k SP. I will use an alt for mining/refining. Use another for trade. All the while, my main will continue to train up his learning skills. So yes, do I feel cheated? Sure. If someone receives something for nothing while others had to work to achieve that same goal, it's not kosher. I hope this is not the status quo when it comes to EVE. It dumbs down the game and lessens the goals set by others before them. My point.. finally If you have a character who has been training learning skills you are much further ahead than those who come post-kali. Once you create an alt you are on equal ground with the post-Kali players all the while you have your main keep training up learning skills. Once the learning skills are done, you are earning the same SP/hour as a 3yr old vet. My 2 cents.
F900EX	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:55:00 - [318] ^^ You think CCP care at this point I don't.... I'm in the same postion as you, but its either get over it or move on to another game..
Alkirin Gallente Die Hard Mining	Posted - 2006.11.27 00:32:00 - [319] Careful what you wish for... [Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura
Shayed	Posted - 2006.11.27 04:26:00 - [320] I just started EvE a month ago and i'm fine with the increased sp. New players will be up and running a bit sooner...good that, yes? Seeing all the Eve Veterans on these boards with Advanced Whine lvl 5... noobs'll need a bit of a leg-up.
Ortos	Posted - 2006.11.27 06:48:00 - [321] Originally by: Nezz Jaran What I've got issues with is the changes to the advanced learning skills. You now only need level 4 in a learning skill to train the advanced version. In TQ, you need 5. So, a newb has the option (provided they get money from an alt / isk seller / friend / corp, etc) to get an advanced learning skill book and start training from the very beginning. Let's be honest, I think that sucks and I'm at the IDEAL position to benefit from it (all of my learning skills are at 4). Also, note that the Kali character has some mineral processing skills, yet doesn't have ANY training in refinery efficiency. Well, that's because mineral processing no longer has a refinery efficiency 5 requirement. It doesn't even have a refinery 5 requirement. No, it's got a Refinery 4 requirement. Again, I'm in a nearly perfect position to benefit from this (have refinery 3, I believe) What these changes have done is remove the requirement to spend time training these skills (and I'm betting that there are others that I've not noticed yet) up to level 5. That cuts a HUGE amount of time out of training requirements. Let's look at it this way. I'm going to say that it takes 6 days to take a skill from 4 to 5, and 8 days to go from 1-5. By changing these skills, CCP has just removed 24 days of training for advanced learning (4 skills x 6 days (not counting Cha), and 14 days from refining (6 for refining and 8 from refining efficiency), or unadjusted 38 DAYS of training time. That also doesn't include the training time saved by the boost newbies get, which I've seen some people say is equal to roughly 14 days. If that number is reasonably accurate, that's 52 days of training time difference between a newb and an older character, just based on the skill tree changes that I've seen. THAT'S not insignificant, unless you've been playing for a couple of years. Like I said, I'm in an ideal position to benefit from this on my primary account. And my secondary account is so new, I'll re-roll and not be bothered by it. However, this actually sucks for the new players Did I miss something? Did CCP Remove the +1 to (for example) perception you get when done training Spatial Awareness 5? NO, THEY DIDN'T. Sure, you can train it to 4, then go for advanced, but the fact is, if you want maxed learning skills, you'll still need to train basics to level 5. Now, by doing advanced first, this speeds up the training of the level 5's a little, but not as much as you're indicating. The level 5s have not become obsolete, they still give you a bonus to the attribute in question. Won't comment on the refinery stuff, cause I know nothing about it
Leonardo Rambaldi	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:39:00 - [322] It's not that giving newbies some skills is bad, I can see why that might help the game get more players to stick around, it's the lack of consideration for players who are up to a month old in the game. Add a sliding scale benefit for recent newbies.
Ortos	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:43:00 - [323] Originally by: Leonardo Rambaldi It's not that giving newbies some skills is bad, I can see why that might help the game get more players to stick around, it's the lack of consideration for players who are up to a month old in the game. Add a sliding scale benefit for recent newbies. Well, they're compensating all players with less than 800k sp. That's pretty considerate, imo
Violent Design	Posted - 2006.11.28 01:30:00 - [324] oh cool I think this is a great method to help keep eve growing for years to come. Congrats ccp, and yeah my newest alot has a mere 1.4mil sp (all in learning) but i don't mind. The very beggining of eve is hard enough might as well let them play with something other than a noob ship. I remember my very first toon... 30k sp. I was trying to mine velds witha nood ship for what seemed like days. The mission feature had been borked to me and after the 4th mission i couldn't complete i started mining...very long and very slow. Congrats again ccp THis should help that first 5 day curve new people get...awesome... More ppl=more money for ccp=more cool stuff for us in game

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