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my oppinion about 'Carebears'

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Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.16 02:35:00 - [1] there is lots to say to the word 'Carebear'... what really is an 'carebear'? a fluffy bear? well, on tv, probaly... in Eve, no... i like to think that carebears are nothing but egocentric ppl who don't care about anything exept their own wallet... like joining an alliance, doing nothing but hunt npc's or mine for their own profit... i wanted to highlight this because npc'ing and mining isn't bad... you need isk to buy t2 modules, skills etc... you need minerals to build ships, ammo, modules etc... while industrialists are a better word... i still say '** carebears', and i really hate them... but i love industrialists... i need my ships, i need ammo even more... we keep these industrialists in our alliances and low sec corporations, because we need them... we provide protection, the best belts... and help them when needed... and the industrialist can do what he/she likes best... mine all day, build all day, research all day... and ofcourse, this industrialist also needs money... but a Tier 2 Battleship for 90mil isk, isn't that bad... it won't be as much as the 108mil for them... but i think it's a small price to pay... as an industrialist, you have loyal customers that do anything to try to protect you... the price i stated, it's just an example... all i mean to say with this is that i don't pay the full price of an industrialist when i help protecting his belts... everything wants something in return for their efforts... don't you? what is your oppinion about this? Originally by:** Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed...
Kenya	Posted - 2006.11.16 02:47:00 - [2] I think the way your looking at it is fine. I think if more ppl looked at it like you there would be more ppl in 0.0 and your BS would be even cheaper.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 02:49:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 16/11/2006 02:50:22 There are two meanings of carebear. 1. Positive meaning. An industrialist, not necessarily anti-PvP or anything. Usually used lightheartedly. Example: "Man, I'm such a carebear." 2. Negative meaning. Someone scared to death of PvP that wants EVE turned into happy happy rainbow land where nobody can hurt anyone else. Or at least something close. Example: "Stupid carebears should shut up about pirates and 'greifers'." -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:15:00 - [4] carebear sit cloaked all day farming complex solo non-carebear bubble gate with interdictor and pop carebear (travelling alone, in a shuttle w/no scouts), revealing HG snake delta and crazy 5% mining implant in hold. carebear is good eating! __ Weirda Join QotSA
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:22:00 - [5] carebears that contribute = good and get reward = good carebears that dont help and take more rewards out of balance = bad
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:26:00 - [6] Removing the labels 'carebear' and 'industrialist' from the original post we get: People who suck suck. People who don't don't. What an achievement. ---------- IBTL \o/
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:33:00 - [7] I'd say it's pretty much the difference in what you want out of EvE. EvE's got the most sophisticated business model I've seen in an MMO. You're dealing with a market, taxes, shareholders and competition for finite resources. It's a complex, brutal world, and you can get a lot out of EvE without every firing a blaster or launching a missile. But a huge majority of EvE's content, in terms of skills, ships and available activities, is based on combat, because it's more romantic and exciting than watching your bottom line. *Pre-emption: You're about to say, "But without combat and ganking and destruction on a galactic scale, nobody would ever buy the industrialists' manufactured goods!" That's not really true. EvE's economy is held up by NPC corporations. Combat characters are paid for killing rats and fetching DNA and otherwise serving NPCs. It would be a simple thing for NPC buy orders to keep an industrial corporation afloat. An artificial demand for manufactured goods is no less feasible than an artificial demand for carnage.* So combat characters are kings of the galaxy, able to beat up the industrialists and take their lunch money and laugh all the way to their bottomless wells of isk in missions and deadspace. The non-combat characters and players are dirt in EvE, and the fighters make up a nickname for them. They call them "Carebears" because they're harmless and squishy. Yes, combat characters need industrialists to build the ships and the ammo and the T2 modules (T1 is had from loot, and loot is usually better than what you build from normal BPs), but they don't depend on industrial players. They depend on industrial alts. Mining, building, researching, buying, selling and hauling--all the non-combat professions of EvE--are the domain of alternate characters. Only a fool has a main who specializes in mining or hauling. Nobody's stupid enough to think they can make their way in EvE as a manufacturer or researcher. Even if it can be done, it would be horribly boring. Watching progress bars isn't worth 15 dollars a month. The sparkly toys and enthralling events are all reserved for combat. So a "Carebear" is any poor fool dumb enough to have a main character who isn't a combat character. Blow up a hauler, and the first thing you'll see in local is, "omg u nub u think ur so tuff beatin my alt wait til i get my main here he flies a deimos and has -10 sec ur dead meat". So you didn't kill a carebear, you killed a carebear alt, who is toiling away to subsidize some leet pvper who then runs around pretending to be worthwhile on his own merits. That's the way EvE is supposed to work. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader *******s If this is some kind joke I don't get it. It just looks like idiocy. ---------- IBTL \o/
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Pre-emption: You're about to say, "But without combat and ganking and destruction on a galactic scale, nobody would ever buy the industrialists' manufactured goods!" That's not really true. EvE's economy is held up by NPC corporations. Combat characters are paid for killing rats and fetching DNA and otherwise serving NPCs. It would be a simple thing for NPC buy orders to keep an industrial corporation afloat. An artificial demand for manufactured goods is no less feasible than an artificial demand for carnage. What you are proposing is called Runescape, where manufacturing (almost) solely exists for the purpose of selling to NPCs (as do all other professions). -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Maglorre	Posted - 2006.11.16 04:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader <snip>a complete load of *******s</snip> That's the way EvE is supposed to work. That might be the way Eve works for you, fine, it's not the way it works for everybody. I don't have an alt (actually, I do, and this is it... and it's a forum alt and nothing more). I mine, I build, I rat, I pvp, I'm in a 0.0 based corp. I really couldn't give a rats if people want to use alts but I cannot be bothered. I may not be uber l33t at pvp (actually, I suck at it but I'm learning), I'm not an uber miner, I'm not an uber builder and I'm not an uber ratter. But guess what, I LIKE IT THAT WAY. I like doing different things. I like sitting in a belt mining with some corpies while we chat on vent or corp channel. I like ratting solo or in small gangs while we chat on vent or corp channel. I like building my own ships and stuff (although I leave the BS sized ships to the better builders in the corp to save me some mins ). I like going in gangs roaming around looking for people to shoot at. I do not, however, think that "winning" Eve is important enough for me to run separate characters for each of these tasks. As a matter of fact I really think of it as a form of meta-gaming (there, that's sure to incite a few flames!) Cheers

Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 05:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Weirda carebear is good eating! Says it all, really.
The RepoMan Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 07:15:00 - [12] The term carebear was coined out of pvp environments, where everyone was forced into pvp, namely ac:dt and uo. The original and correct usage was referring to people who would attempt to put themselves at a "safer" advantage. These are the people who form giant clans and who powerlevel in an attempt to not die. Within about 4 days to a week, the meaning was completely screwed up, and the people who originally coined the term stopped using it due to it's misuse. The only people who still actually use the word are carebears themselves.
Grytok	Posted - 2006.11.16 07:39:00 - [13] Edited by: Grytok on 16/11/2006 07:46:19 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader ... Mining, building, researching, buying, selling and hauling--all the non-combat professions of EvE--are the domain of alternate characters. Only a fool has a main who specializes in mining or hauling. Nobody's stupid enough to think they can make their way in EvE as a manufacturer or researcher. Even if it can be done, it would be horribly boring. Watching progress bars isn't worth 15 dollars a month. The sparkly toys and enthralling events are all reserved for combat. So a "Carebear" is any poor fool dumb enough to have a main character who isn't a combat character. Blow up a hauler, and the first thing you'll see in local is, "omg u nub u think ur so tuff beatin my alt wait til i get my main here he flies a deimos and has -10 sec ur dead meat". So you didn't kill a carebear, you killed a carebear alt, who is toiling away to subsidize some leet pvper who then runs around pretending to be worthwhile on his own merits. That's the way EvE is supposed to work. Allright. If I get this right you just called me a dumb idiot. I like EvE, because you can do so many different things in this Universe. I am trained up to fly Transport-Ships and Freighters, to be useful to my Corp. I don't need an Alt for playing this game succesful, because I win every day, just by having fun with my mates. Guys like you just ruin this wonderful game, thinking that there is no space in it for anything else, but combat and fighting. PvP is much more, then just "pew pew". Grow up! EDIT: Uups, wanted to reply to the OP as well In my humble oppinion, a carebear is someone, who is not willing to take some risks. In EvE a carebear is supposed to be someone, who never would enter LowSec or 0.0, just sitting in 0.5 - 1.0 all day long. But hey, they pay their 15$ as well and support us this way too, to keep this game going. .
DaRuLe Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 07:40:00 - [14] ~cam.per (-the) 1. a person without balls, incapable of real PvP due to lack of skill and thus harming innocent people in frigates. cheers, the industrialist Threads about carebears... sigh Come on, how many are there? Just respect the way someone plays and don't get that ***** envy out every time you get frustrated by a carebear. Girls talk about carebears, a real man eats 'em and doesn't talk about em. __________________________________________________________________________
Sol Halcon Minmatar The Exile Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:06:00 - [15] You want to know what happens when they take a game like Eve and turn it into a PvP frag fest and remove all the useless "carebear" stuff? Star Wars Galaxies, that's what. There used to be a multitude of stuff to do in there. Now all there is is PvP until your eyes fall out. I came here because friends told me there was a never ending list of stuff to do and learn, and there is excellent PvP to be had as well. Lets not even start suggesting that we turn this into a frag fest. If you really want constant PvP go to Vendetta online. Grey space there is a constant frag fest. Cheers! ~Sol
Maglorre	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Grytok I win every day, just by having fun with my mates. Wish I had thought of using that line, you win this thread !
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:12:00 - [17] Originally by: DaRuLe Girls talk about carebears, a real man eats 'em and doesn't talk about em. I disagree, I see more than 5% of posts whining about "carebears", therefore either the my demographics intel is incorrect, or we have many men online roleplaying girls. Note: purely a joke, no misogyny here.
TricksR4Cats	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Sol Halcon You want to know what happens when they take a game like Eve and turn it into a PvP frag fest and remove all the useless "carebear" stuff? Star Wars Galaxies, that's what. There used to be a multitude of stuff to do in there. Now all there is is PvP until your eyes fall out. I came here because friends told me there was a never ending list of stuff to do and learn, and there is excellent PvP to be had as well. Lets not even start suggesting that we turn this into a frag fest. If you really want constant PvP go to Vendetta online. Grey space there is a constant frag fest. Cheers! ~Sol ahh dont worry Eve will never turn out like that :)
Mazzarins Demise	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:21:00 - [19] You Trammie
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:24:00 - [20] what happens when a non carebear turns into a carebear i wonder

Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:33:00 - [21] Carebear? A derogatory term used to describe a play style which does not include player versus player interaction. I think the language filter would probably edit out the other terms PvE and PvP players have for each other. As for what you said about "carebears" I know what you're saying, but I prefer to think of those people as "parasites". To me, it makes very, very little difference what play style you wish to pursue in game, as you pay to be here. However: taking advantage of the effort others put in to the time they have also paid for and not repaying that debt is simply poor. J.A.F.O.
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc. THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Crumplecorn Removing the labels 'carebear' and 'industrialist' from the original post we get: People who suck suck. People who don't don't. What an achievement. Spilled my espresso.. good stuff.
DaRuLe Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Tyler Lowe snip However: taking advantage of the effort others put in to the time they have also paid for and not repaying that debt is simply poor. That statement goes both ways. __________________________________________________________________________
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:56:00 - [24] Replaying to the OP - for me a 'carebear' player would be a player not willing to take much risk, but without any negative meaning (of course this person can act in a negative or positive way, but this will be related to some other external factors) What is most interesting after reading previous posts, is that although the definitions have some small common parts (mostly related to avoiding pvp), they are very different, and some with a very negative note (either filled with emotions - 'I really hate them' or trying to evaluate 'is any poor fool dumb enough'). Imho the problem with such a situation is the following: - first we have many definitions, so we get many type of 'carebears' put in the same basket - second all of them will suffer from the same negative meaning/emotions (because they are all in the same basket) I would just propose to use 'carebear' a bit more lightly, since such terms usually divide communities. Also imho abusing such stereotypes just narrows our perception of reality. -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!
Viictoria	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:50:00 - [25] Carebear = Any player who prefers PvE, or possibly one who tries hard to avoid the "griefing" style of PvP. I think this is a pretty safe general description... Not all are whiners, not all hate PvP / PvPers, some might even enjoy some PvP but most of the time would rather be (in EVE) mining, mission running, ratting, etc. In other PvP games I would use Carebear to describe some people who would avoid real world PvP and just duel others 1v1 also Only thing negative about the term is the negativity some put into it, by using it as an insult. I never saw the term used so negatively til I came to EVE, really
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:53:00 - [26] Both industrialists & PvP'ers have varying degrees of lameness... Carebear<->Industrialist PK'er<->PvP'er EveryoneÆs opinion differs on the variance... It's CCP's job to make sure the game is balanced in such a way that the majority of players are PvP'ers and Industrialists, and keeping the number of PK'ers & Carebears to a minimum...
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Sovereign533 BLAH BLAH . . . what is your oppinion about this? so so sad do you really want an "I WIN" button by expelling all carebears? or do you want to PvP once every 28 days because now that all the CBs have left everyone else is doing the same as you and waiting for prey to show up in your system? I am currently a useless PvPer but I like the idea that there is alot of fodder for me out there to kill mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus Xorus has been webbified - DOGNOSH
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:50:00 - [28] Carebear's don't exist in the long-run. They exist in the short-run. Short-run: My friend wouldn't help me one day with a pvp gang in my home system. He is a carebear. It doesn't matter what he was doing at the time. He didn't want to help pvp. Long-run: My friend (same one as above) helps out the next day in a pvp gang. He's not a carebear anymore but people still call him one for not helping the day before. The term care-bear is usually placed against people who surrender in wars too in order to stop being killed by better pvpers. =P --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
ollobrains Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:51:00 - [29] hey lisento - you have valid poitns usually its the l33t kiddies that didnt get their isnta kill that call everyone else carebears
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:13:00 - [30] A word that only exists in the online gamers vocab. Simple as.... Because i play the game the way i do (that selfish/greedy Individual portraid in the op) Iv'e been called a gutless carebear coward quite a few times in the game and on the forum..... when thats aimed me, i see it as nothing but a personal insult tbh.. Within the world of eve is the only place i ever get called that, or thought of in that manner and way. It never happens when im out with my friends, not when im at work... and certainly not when i was serving my country with a gun in my hand, and the voluntary and charity work iv'e done off my own back in the last 15 years. Ofc the real coward isn't behind my screen. ______

Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:18:00 - [31] There's two words that SHOULD be censored on these forums: carebear and griefer. Lets try to have a discussion about different playstyles in Eve without using these overused, cliched and highly ambiguous terms, and we might actually get somewhere. Don't call me Carebear, Griefer Don't call me Griefer, Carebear (With apologies to Sly and the Family Stone)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:29:00 - [32] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 13:29:49 My personal definition of negative Carebears: - someone, who wants his rewards on a silver platter - someone, who wants to be left alone / not be disturbed by other players, while he plays 'his' game and whines, if it doesn't work this way - someone, who 'cheats' to avoid consequences and says it's ok, because he doesn't like how the game works ( 'I logged in that bubble, because I was outnumbered and that wasn't fair.' ... Should better play a medieval knight game with fair tournament 1-vs-1, if that exists. We all die outnumbered and outgunned sometimes. Part of the game. Cry me a river ! ) Carebear without negative meaning: Players, who don't follow pvp activities primarily cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Thoris Levithar Gallente Gadget Factory	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:32:00 - [33] Carebear: I'd say anyone who avoids fighting for the sake of fighting (fighting because you CAN). Not people who avoid risk in general. I'm a carebear
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Galk A word that only exists in the online gamers vocab. Simple as.... Because i play the game the way i do (that selfish/greedy Individual portraid in the op) Iv'e been called a gutless carebear coward quite a few times in the game and on the forum..... when thats aimed me, i see it as nothing but a personal insult tbh.. Within the world of eve is the only place i ever get called that, or thought of in that manner and way. It never happens when im out with my friends, not when im at work... and certainly not when i was serving my country with a gun in my hand, and the voluntary and charity work iv'e done off my own back in the last 15 years. Ofc the real coward isn't behind my screen. I think someone has issues.... ---------- IBTL \o/
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:34:00 - [35] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 13:35:14 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Galk A word that only exists in the online gamers vocab. Simple as.... Because i play the game the way i do (that selfish/greedy Individual portraid in the op) Iv'e been called a gutless carebear coward quite a few times in the game and on the forum..... when thats aimed me, i see it as nothing but a personal insult tbh.. Within the world of eve is the only place i ever get called that, or thought of in that manner and way. It never happens when im out with my friends, not when im at work... and certainly not when i was serving my country with a gun in my hand, and the voluntary and charity work iv'e done off my own back in the last 15 years. Ofc the real coward isn't behind my screen. I think someone has issues.... Actually Galk made a very good statement there, you're the one who has issues... You're just flaming a bunch of posts this morning, like you're bitter about something...
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:38:00 - [36] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 13:35:14 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Galk A word that only exists in the online gamers vocab. Simple as.... Because i play the game the way i do (that selfish/greedy Individual portraid in the op) Iv'e been called a gutless carebear coward quite a few times in the game and on the forum..... when thats aimed me, i see it as nothing but a personal insult tbh.. Within the world of eve is the only place i ever get called that, or thought of in that manner and way. It never happens when im out with my friends, not when im at work... and certainly not when i was serving my country with a gun in my hand, and the voluntary and charity work iv'e done off my own back in the last 15 years. Ofc the real coward isn't behind my screen. I think someone has issues.... Actually Galk made a very good statement there, you're the one who has issues... You're just flaming a bunch of posts this morning, like you're bitter about something... I'm just bored and haven't got any threads to post constructively in I have no issues (atm), but the whole "people call me a <insert label> but I've served my country etc etc in RL" line possibly suggests someone who needs a thicker skin..... ---------- IBTL \o/
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:01:00 - [37] Ohh im fine tbh.... (well aside my hands and arms feeling like there in traction from last nights aggression at the karting track... and ofc my head feeling like a stone from the celebrations that went on till early in the morning for coming 2nd to last) My point was those who generaly categorize individuals personal affections with generic term because of the way they choose to go about themselfs in a computer game, in general don't have any conception or insight into that individual. Me highlighing my personal circumstances and unselfish achivements as a person that falls fowl to those blinkerd taunts was mearly a sign of frustration of peoples ignorance. ______
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:05:00 - [38] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:05:56 Quote: I have no issues (atm), but the whole "people call me a <insert label> but I've served my country etc etc in RL" line possibly suggests someone who needs a thicker skin..... So you have something against ppl who serve their county in the military? I tend to think they deserve more respect than most ppl who are afraid to serve, and you don't seem to want to show any, kind of speaks about maybe some issues you have...
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:16:00 - [39] hehe, to make something clear... i didnt intend to flame anybody... well, maybe only the ppl i like to call 'carebears' ... but that wasn't really my point... a lot of ppl generalise the word 'carebear' for anybody who doesn't do PvP... and devide them into good and negative... i for one, really don't like to go mining all day... i would bore my arse off... once every month is ok with me, i can just handle that... but these industrialist, do it all day... and i for one appreciate that... i'll do my share in protecting/helping... they make my ships and stuff... it's a balance... they build, i lose/use, i buy... Originally by: Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed...
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:18:00 - [40] CCP could probably cut number of threads in half if you removed two types of threads... 1.) I hate everyone who doesn't play the game like Ithink they should, they should be forced to play my way. 2.) This game isn't specifically tailored to my demanding playstyle, fix it or RIP - my account after next cycle. Some people don't like fighting for the sake of fighting. Some people can't surive going more than 15 minutes without killing someone else, with or without a reason. Some people are happy playing George Jetson, mashing the button and watching something pop out. Some people prefer to hunt NPCs because it doesn't hurt another player when you blow up a Guristas battleship. Some people like to steal from people so they don't have to earn it legitimately. Some people would rather play the market and become tycoons and multi-bazillionaires. Some people prefer to post complaints about how the game isn't exactly what they want in the belief that their opinions, simply because they're now voiced in text, outweigh the opinions of the other couple hundred thousand players whose unspoken opinion screams we love this game as it is in deafening silence each time they log in and start to have fun. okay. your play style is best? q.e.d. post script- CCP could remove another 30-40% of the forum DB if they moved Dark Shikari's posts to a seperate hard drive.

Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Galk Ohh im fine tbh.... (well aside my hands and arms feeling like there in traction from last nights aggression at the karting track... and ofc my head feeling like a stone from the celebrations that went on till early in the morning for coming 2nd to last) My point was those who generaly categorize individuals personal affections with generic term because of the way they choose to go about themselfs in a computer game, in general don't have any conception or insight into that individual. Me highlighing my personal circumstances and unselfish achivements as a person that falls fowl to those blinkerd taunts was mearly a sign of frustration of peoples ignorance. In that case I stand corrected ---------- IBTL \o/
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:24:00 - [42] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:22 Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:02 Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:05:56 Quote: I have no issues (atm), but the whole "people call me a <insert label> but I've served my country etc etc in RL" line possibly suggests someone who needs a thicker skin..... So you have something against ppl who serve their county in the military? I tend to think they deserve more respect than most ppl who are afraid to serve, and you don't seem to want to show any, kind of speaks about maybe some issues you have... You have a gift for missing the point. Since I've got nothing better to do I'll elaborate. Some people who have a thin skin and get insulted in games fall back on postive things about their RL selves as a defense, as they take it all too seriously. This was not the case this time. ---------- IBTL \o/
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:29:00 - [43] My opinion about carebears is this:- Without them, the economy would collapse resulting in huge reductions in the cost of "I want one of those" items; Macro miners / isk farmers would leave the game in droves; the average people logged in would drop to pre-2005 levels; Alliances would be hard at work mining ice 24/7; Jita would become a ghost-town; the WOW subscription base would become flooded with gank-savvy ex-eve-o-lites; the resulting migration yields a new-born clan of ex-eve carebears who infest every server and take over; The resulting drain on the Blizzard infrastructure requires a massive upgrade and they adopt a supercomputer capable of 500 billion giga-ganks per second; Within two years, the WOW SuperComputer becomes self-aware and teaches itself the power to cast spells across information databases and primes an attack on 0.0; In a bid to defend themselves the alliances band together and prepare for an attack; TomB comes out of retirement after two years learning nerf-bat martial arts at a secret location in deep Mongolia; after much Quafe, he steals the nerfbat from Tux, recodes Tranquilty so he can use his bat in the CCP holosuite - and joins the battle; after 3 days of battle without DT and support from BoB, TomB makes a killing blow to the uber-titan the Super-computer created; the resulting impact of the blow destroys the internet and all computers in the world, forcing everyone to watch television... In short, a pretty bad nightmare.
Frygok	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:32:00 - [44] I have to say I very much believe that alot of people are carebears not of their own choice. For instance, few of the 0.0 PvP corps/alliances would ever want a stupid newbie in their corp/alliance, so new players join the friendly empire-based corps who don't look at SP and PvP experience, but look at the players as a person and sees potential. And when said newbie finally get the skills to be worthwhile to have for the 0.0 pvp corps, why should that person leave friends behind, just because some "nber-PvP god alliance" suddenly realises that the players SP and ships would prove valuable to them. Personally, my only experience with low sec space and pvp was to get killed by 5 pirates who were 3 years old, when I had to fly to a station that had a skillbook. I lost my shuttle, and that was that. I can't see why I should go out to 0.0 to be the laughing stock of the PvP'ers.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:35:00 - [45] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:36:50 Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:22 Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:02 Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:05:56 Quote: I have no issues (atm), but the whole "people call me a <insert label> but I've served my country etc etc in RL" line possibly suggests someone who needs a thicker skin..... So you have something against ppl who serve their county in the military? I tend to think they deserve more respect than most ppl who are afraid to serve, and you don't seem to want to show any, kind of speaks about maybe some issues you have... You have a gift for missing the point. Since I've got nothing better to do I'll elaborate. Some people who have a thin skin and get insulted in games fall back on postive things about their RL selves as a defense, as they take it all too seriously. This was not the case this time. I don't believe that any player separates himself from the game 100%, maybe there are true RP'ers who do, but they would be very rare IMO. Anyone who forms an opinion on how someone else plays the game (like you have)is not disconnecting themselves from the game world 100%. So yes, falling back on RL experiences that may affect game play in one way or another cannot totally be ignored... So I did not miss any point, you tried to attack/flame a player, not simply an avatar...
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:40:00 - [46] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:36:50 Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:22 Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 14:25:02 Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:05:56 Quote: I have no issues (atm), but the whole "people call me a <insert label> but I've served my country etc etc in RL" line possibly suggests someone who needs a thicker skin..... So you have something against ppl who serve their county in the military? I tend to think they deserve more respect than most ppl who are afraid to serve, and you don't seem to want to show any, kind of speaks about maybe some issues you have... You have a gift for missing the point. Since I've got nothing better to do I'll elaborate. Some people who have a thin skin and get insulted in games fall back on postive things about their RL selves as a defense, as they take it all too seriously. This was not the case this time. I don't believe that any player separates himself from the game 100%, maybe there are true RP'ers who do, but they would be very rare IMO. Anyone who forms an opinion on how someone else plays the game (like you have)is not disconnecting themselves from the game world 100%. So yes, falling back on RL experiences that may affect game play in one way or another cannot totally be ignored... So I did not miss any point, you tried to attack/flame a player, not simply an avatar... That may be what you actually thought, but what you wrote was that you thought I had something against people in the military. Which was missing my point. Which was simply it looked like someone was taking in-game insults far too seriously. ---------- IBTL \o/
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:42:00 - [47] I pretty much agree with the topic starter. Nothing against miners and so on in 0 space when I know that they are working for the alliance. If they need help I run to help. The ones that dont do nothing more then working for their wallet... I have to say that even in the same alliance I have to control my self to not blow them away
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:42:00 - [48] Yoohoo- the topic's over there.
Fork Boy	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:43:00 - [49] Blimey, OP you really have a bee in your bonnet about something huh? I am an Eve player. I pay CCP my money, and I play the game how I like. Who are you to tell me otherwise? Do you pay CCP extra and in return they allow you to dictate how others play the game? >what is your oppinion about this? Play Eve less, go to school more. ================================= A fork is a cold, shiny tool To pierce, tear and ingest. Whoever has the fork in hand Controls the meal of their choice.
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:49:00 - [50] Originally by: DeadDuck Nothing against miners and so on in 0 space when I know that they are working for the alliance. If they need help I run to help. The ones that dont do nothing more then working for their wallet... I have to say that even in the same alliance I have to control my self to not blow them away So let me get this straight.. if I decided I wanted to play eve and get rich and sit mining all day long- just because I didn't want to share with people but instead decided to sell the results of my time on the market for profit... I'm a bad guy and should be blown away?

DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:49:00 - [51] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/11/2006 14:54:32 Getting back OT. I have both industrialist and 0.0 PvP characters, currently training a low sec PvP'er as well. I enjoy them all, and being a part time player, I could never enjoy the PvP in this game if I didn't have my empire space industrialists. Given the fact that most alliances don't give part time players leeway to make ISK, as rat hunting & mining for personal gain are severely frowned upon, there's no other way for me to make do... And as far as opinions on game mechanics, and lobbying for change. Chances are, no matter what side you're on, if you post on the forums, you want to see something changed in your favor...
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:53:00 - [52] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory Originally by: DeadDuck Nothing against miners and so on in 0 space when I know that they are working for the alliance. If they need help I run to help. The ones that dont do nothing more then working for their wallet... I have to say that even in the same alliance I have to control my self to not blow them away So let me get this straight.. if I decided I wanted to play eve and get rich and sit mining all day long- just because I didn't want to share with people but instead decided to sell the results of my time on the market for profit... I'm a bad guy and should be blown away? That is how some feel yes, they feel you're not playing the game as intended. Same as how some players feel a high sec suicide ganker is not playing as intended. It's up to CCP to balance this out...
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Fork Boy Blimey, OP you really have a bee in your bonnet about something huh? I am an Eve player. I pay CCP my money, and I play the game how I like. Who are you to tell me otherwise? Do you pay CCP extra and in return they allow you to dictate how others play the game? >what is your oppinion about this? Play Eve less, go to school more. Well nothing wrong in playing the game how you want. You have empire for that... In 0 space you have to work has a team or you will nopt be there for long. When a player doesnt act like a team member but requires from the same team that he's not willing to help , protection, land and so on ... well maybe is better to saty in empire
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:00:00 - [54] DarkMatter: I just wish people would realise ... Playing the game as intended involves logging in and doing anything you want...(short of exploiting glitches and bugs and or abusive behavior).
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:05:00 - [55] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory DarkMatter: I just wish people would realise ... Playing the game as intended involves logging in and doing anything you want...(short of exploiting glitches and bugs and or abusive behavior). I would like world piece too, but that's not going to happen anytime soon... Neither will peace between these contrasting play styles ever take place, in EVE or any MMO until a game company can find out how to fully integrate PvP & PvE seamlessly... Some players hate others for mining in empire all day, others hate players who control 0.0 space and gank anyone who they please... I'm not sure those feelings of hatred will ever go away. It's what leads to so many debates on the forums, and between the DEV's too I'm sure... Throw in game mechanics that cheaters on both sides try to exploit, and you have EVE... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
Efour Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:06:00 - [56] You can really see peoples mental age when they begin to argue in a thread like this. EvE is so like UO its not funny we have Trammy empire .5 and above space and fel below it. West brit bank is Jita East brit bank is Rens. The PvE lovers and Some indsutrial people, often refered to as carebears by the fellucians. That dont share the same lust for often mindless killing and enjoy collecting faction ships and ammounting vast fortunes. The very fabric of the game promotes carebear type play style. Becoming a profesional pirate or PK is a big commitment and to many its just to harsh a penalty to accept with a charcter that can take a year to train. I personaly know a few "carebears" with some extremely violent split personalities and ruthless -10 pvp killer alts calling people egotisctical maniacs, because they dont want the same goal from the game as your FPS style combat is just bizzare to me. Games need there carebear lands of they become complete and utter mindless gankfest, grey con massacres. look at the DAOC free for all PVP servers, if they are still even running?! its was horrid. There has to be a balance, but because of the constant dumbing down of MMOs since UO people expect there to be a safe carebear zone. You cant balce it its either tram or fel... you just cannot have a middle ground anymore the game wouldnt survive without carebears, but it would without PVPers.. so love your carebears and love the loot they drop when theres no choice but to go through a .4 system :)
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:07:00 - [57] I tend to think this game would be a total wreck if we didn't have the industrialist carebears. Warp Drive Active \| EVE: Nature Vraie
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:07:00 - [58] guess it's kinda like getting the PRC and ROC to recognise each other as sovereign nations. Both think they're the only China and get ****ed off when the rest of the world says 'huh? I see 2 countries..."
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:13:00 - [59] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory Edited by: Zephyr Mallory on 16/11/2006 14:57:05 Originally by: DeadDuck Nothing against miners and so on in 0 space when I know that they are working for the alliance. If they need help I run to help. The ones that dont do nothing more then working for their wallet... I have to say that even in the same alliance I have to control my self to not blow them away So let me get this straight.. if I decided I wanted to play eve and get rich and sit mining all day long- just because I didn't want to share with people but instead decided to sell the results of my time on the market for profit... I'm a bad guy and should be blown away? I get enough of being told what to do at work every day. I like being able to play a game with friends and do what we feel is fun- which is not what everyone else thinks is fun. I am restricting this to 0 space... if you want to stay there and get stinking rich working only for yourself, you can only make that because there are other players that are working together to protect the area. In the end your results are only possible because someone is risking their assets or corp assets on behalf of the entire alliance - alliance = big number of players -. So if you are taking your self all the advantages of being in a dangerous place but you are not willing to raise a finger to help anyone except your self, you are nothing more then a parasite for the alliance...
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Efour I personaly know a few "carebears" with some extremely violent split personalities and ruthless -10 pvp killer alts A reasonable way to pay for the ships you lose in PvP...

Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:16:00 - [61] One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:22:00 - [62] Originally by: Stinky Spaniel One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs And how exactly do they hurt your gaming experience? If I mine with one of my characters, and haul with another. How am I hurting your enjoyment of EVE? If I'm not, then why do you care? I'll never understand that argument... Same as those who complain about 0.0 players hogging all the space out there, when they know they'd never have the balls to venture out there themselves anyways... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
KillerDream	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:24:00 - [63] So what if some of us are classed as carebear`s (IYHO), We pay our subs just like everyone else does. We all have the RIGHT to do what we want in EvE. Its the wanna-be PVP`ers that always complain about "carebears", I wonder why
Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:34:00 - [64] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Stinky Spaniel One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs And how exactly do they hurt your gaming experience? If I mine with one of my characters, and haul with another. How am I hurting your enjoyment of EVE? If I'm not, then why do you care? I'll never understand that argument... Same as those who complain about 0.0 players hogging all the space out there, when they know they'd never have the balls to venture out there themselves anyways... You dont hurt anyones gaming experiance i just think its a strange concept of 30,000 players allplaying a solo game on the same server... Totally alien to me. no offence was ment if it did What about Pirate carebears that want the game mechanics to do everything possible that when a PvE carebear comes into view they cant escape (warp stab nerf- log off nerf jump to Zero) Everyone wants the game their way to suit their playstyle, gate sniping is Just as carebear as PvE carebears really.. If you move the word Carebear around i think it fits all groups really well.
Yann Xonogoth Gallente Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:44:00 - [65] It's like in real life: some people are aggressive, others arent. Some people want to progress in dangerous zones, some others dont. If I go in 0.0 (or low sec in general) with my corp, I know what I should expect there. But when solo, I prefer staying in high sec, it's what I want to play. I mine. I love mining. And when doing so I hate the idea of being ganked. So I mine solo in high sec and go low sec ONLY with my corp. Call that "carebear" or whatever, I dont care. It's my way of playing, that I enjoy, and I wont change it. Regards, Xonogoth Yann Xonogoth SS:0.1 SP:1,000,000 Multiverse Corporation
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:51:00 - [66] I've been playing multiplayer online games since they first came out in the form of PVP muds. What very few of these places did then and this problem continues to this day is find a happy medium where pve meets pvp. Where carebear and pvper can find a nitch. Most were either frag fests, or made pvp so restrictive that there was no point in doing it unless you wanted to lose everything. Eve is one of the ONLY mmpog that has achieved this happy carebear-pvp medium. This is what is so great about it. This is why its better than WoW, or EQ, or any mmpog to date. This is why a game with such horrible pve content (the missions are just awful and boring) is so good, because the player matter. PVP can't exsist without carebears, and carebears (the smart ones) know that its the pvpers getting their crap blown up on a nightly basis that is making them rich. Now in my years, and I've been doing this longer than some of our playerbase has been out of diapers, of pvp gaming there is one type of carebear that I just can't stand. This is the carebear who plays the game, but for whatever reason can't seem to 'get' pvp, and can't even seem to figure out how to avoid it. I don't know if its being lazy, or stupid, or just missing some testosterone, but these types just can't figure out how not to get killed. Its a mental flaw, they can't think like a killer, so they are always the victim. You can see these guys in jita moving a billion isk in a t1 hauler without instas, you can hear them whine about gate camps in the forums, you can find posts about wanting to make 0.0 'more accessable' aka safe for them to do solo what they want to do. They want to take the game and change it to something they will like, even though it was never that game to start with. They don't want to adapt to the game (how hard is it to scout?) but want the game to change to fit their playstyle. These are the carebears who, while a pirates best victim, will be the first to whine about it in the forums as unfair. Sometimes the devs listen to these types, and its always a sad day.
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:55:00 - [67] DeadDuck. If I was mining in 0.0 and wasn't part of an alliance - in an alliance controlled area. I'd expect to be shot at by the locals unless I had paid some sort of taxes or worked out some other sort of agreement with the holders. If someone's in an alliance in 0.0 and is keeping everythign for themselves, that kinda rubs me the wrong way too. Don't join a group without giving something back. If someone's running solo out there, and doesn't want to pay some taxes to the people who hold the space... hope they've got really good resists. I have no problem with it when you look at it like that. The only real point I've been asking for is for people to acknowledge that each person's playstyle is legitimate... You have every right to shoot the person who's mining your alliance's space, but that person also has just as much right to be there, according to game mechanics nothing says he can't be... HOWEVER.. The Alliance the controls an area sets teh rules for that area. If they don't want you in their backyard, expect to be shot and don't cry about it. Don't hate me for being a rich miner...because I'm poor and hate mining.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:01:00 - [68] Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 16/11/2006 16:03:54 Well, just to be up front about this... the OP and most the posters here are full of excrement. (that is one way around the censors) There are no CAREBEARs in Eve. There was a really good topic about this a few days ago. On of the biggest problems I see on the forums in the concept that if you are not fighting in a ship, then your not doing PvP. Eve is PvP. While combat can be PvP, PvP is more than combat. So all those solo industrialist, miners, pirates, and mission runners are all doing PvP. They are competing for sales, for ore, for kills, for missions against every one else in Eve. So the combat pilots are whining about the non-combat pilots, I have a suggestion for you. Play your own game and STFU about how others play. They are doing the form of PvP that suits them. Originally by: Sovereign533 i like to think that carebears are nothing but egocentric ppl who don't care about anything exept their own wallet... like joining an alliance, doing nothing but hunt npc's or mine for their own profit... i wanted to highlight this because npc'ing and mining isn't bad... you need isk to buy t2 modules, skills etc... you need minerals to build ships, ammo, modules etc... I hate to break this too you but everyone only does anything in a game that they see as for thier own profit. Being a member of a corp or alliance does not mean that your not doing things that you see in your best interest. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:05:00 - [69] Edited by: Nez Perces on 16/11/2006 16:13:42 ... there is nothing intrinsically wrong with 'carebears' or players who aren't keen on pvp... ofc they need to realise that they should stay away from areas where pvp is a necessity .. e.g 0.0. The kind of player I think everybody dislikes is the... I don't carebear this kind of player should be shot on sight... [edit:typo]
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:07:00 - [70] Miri - mission running is in no way shape or form PVP. Buying the ship and stuff off the market is...but when 500 people can go up to the mission agent and say gimme a mission, and he's all like, here you go have fun.... each person runs off and does their own mission... there's no versus anything except the little red crosses at the mission waypoint... unless you really think the other 499 mission runners give a flying monkey flip about your standing with that agent being higher than thiers... For tomB's sake..you're trying to prove that roses dont' exist because they're all flowers.

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:08:00 - [71] Originally by: Stinky Spaniel One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs The point is that people want to enjoy the game. And how it's "intended to be used" is not how YOU intend to use it. The fact that is MMO makes Eve what that is, including the solo players in it, which choose professions that influence the game on a larger scale that you can imagine (since your view of EvE apparently boils down to a gate camp for the kill board). So when you start paying my $14.95 you can tell me what I can do in game, mmkkaay?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:11:00 - [72] Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Stinky Spaniel One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs And how exactly do they hurt your gaming experience? If I mine with one of my characters, and haul with another. How am I hurting your enjoyment of EVE? If I'm not, then why do you care? I'll never understand that argument... Same as those who complain about 0.0 players hogging all the space out there, when they know they'd never have the balls to venture out there themselves anyways... You dont hurt anyones gaming experiance i just think its a strange concept of 30,000 players allplaying a solo game on the same server... Totally alien to me. If it's so Alien of a concept for you to grasp, maybe you should go play WoW instead, where there is a server for everyone, incluing for mindless PvP (or should I say wannabe/wannaprove im l33t) servers for kids with ADD.
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:14:00 - [73] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 16/11/2006 16:16:21 I think the greatest misconception, for many people in this thread, is that there is infact a definitive way that EVE is supposed to be played like. There isn't, nor should there be..one of the spectacular things about EVE in the first place, is that YOU as a singular entity/person, decide how the game is going to be played. Whether it be at the control station of a humongous industrial machine like the Covetor, mining to your heart's content, or if it's behind the gears of a fully armed, and demonically possesed machine of pure destruction, like an Astarte, bent on tearing everything it sees, to shreds. To say you hate one type of player is not really that viable an option (well apart from macro miners and isk sellers etc etc..cause they're breaking the EULA and stuff..bad people, but everyone agrees with that...I think ) because all it is, is you as a person disagreeing with someone's playstyle, but who are you to dictate how others play? You can't do that, nor should you, and thank god for that (and before you religious and anti-religious nutcases go all plingeling about mentioning god..skip it..it's just an expression to me, so hah! ), because that makes EVE open to many types of people. And really, here we are..many of us often complaining about how carebears and pacifists are saying pirates are degenerates in RL, because that stuff ain't right to say..you can't judge someone's person by actions they do in a game, nor should you...but that works both ways ladies and gentlemen. Sitting and yapping about how carebears are oh so horrible and ego-centric yadda yadda, is the same thing as carebears yapping about how pirates are horrible people. I personally welcome all types of players in EVE; Industrialists, Carebears, Pirates, Traders, Builders, Researchers, Combat Pilots, Scammers, Corp Thieves, Spies and The Russian too! (it's a joke..laugh with me! ) ... Seriously though..all of those (minus the remark about the russians) are what makes EVE what it is, and I think it's friggin great..I've never seen that diverse a MMO in terms of things you can do, since my early youthful days playing Ultima Online (which I still do, just on my own server) and I thank CCP so much for combining the wonders of freedom from Ultima Online, and my favorite space themes like Homeworld and make it a massive multiplayer game. Bottom line is, you can hate people all you want for playing differently then you..but you can't dictate them to play differently, nor should you. /begin arse kissing If CCP reads this, HIRE ME! I LOVE YOU! arse kissing the lot /end arse kissing -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:16:00 - [74] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 16/11/2006 16:13:42 ... there is nothing intrinsically wrong with 'carebears' or players who aren't keen on pvp... ofc they need to realise that they should stay away from areas where pvp is a necessity .. e.g 0.0. The kind of player I think everybody dislikes is the... I don't carebear this kind of player should be shot on sight... [edit:typo] No they should gather about en mass and DESTROY your lame gate camp at 0.0 point of entry with their new shiny T2 toys..
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:18:00 - [75] Edited by: Zephyr Mallory on 16/11/2006 16:19:13 All those guys on the oil platforms in the north sea are playing the game wrong because they're not in the army. They should be banned from life.
Morp p'LLoran Redemption EnterpriseS Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:19:00 - [76] My personal definition of carebears - players who want everything easymode. AFK miner who moans and *** when his ore get's stolen = carebear PVE'er who moans and * about harder missions, low reward () ect = carebear Pirates who moans and *** about not enough soft targets = carebear 0.0 Ratter who log when there is danger, instead of evading it = carebear. Many more examples, but hope you get the idea. All who just work around the difficulties in Empire, Low-sec, o.o = normal EVE players, whether they are haulin, building, rattin or killing.
Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:20:00 - [77] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Stinky Spaniel One think that irks me is indeed people that play MMOs solo, or with an alt buff bot type thing. Rarely interacting with people other than the 2nd account. whats the frigging point. Go play Obivion or Elite. Like that guy said they really are the bane of MMOs And how exactly do they hurt your gaming experience? If I mine with one of my characters, and haul with another. How am I hurting your enjoyment of EVE? If I'm not, then why do you care? I'll never understand that argument... Same as those who complain about 0.0 players hogging all the space out there, when they know they'd never have the balls to venture out there themselves anyways... You dont hurt anyones gaming experiance i just think its a strange concept of 30,000 players allplaying a solo game on the same server... Totally alien to me. If it's so Alien of a concept for you to grasp, maybe you should go play WoW instead, where there is a server for everyone, incluing for mindless PvP (or should I say wannabe/wannaprove im l33t) servers for kids with ADD. THat does not even make sense and just makes my point even more. What has wow got to do with this, it is another MMO and probably has the same ups and downs as EVE? Are you saying if there was a PvE only EVE server you would prefer that ? or the PVP only one not sure which game type you are into. We already have seperate areas for PvE and PVP its called low and High sec. I Completely dont understand your posts contribution to the discussion. Sorry. Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:22:00 - [78] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 16/11/2006 16:13:42 The kind of player I think everybody dislikes is the... I don't carebear Exactly, you DO carebear, or should i say what people actually SHOULD WAKE UP and see that is in reality amassing wealth to sponsor whatever they like in Eve, be it shooting at other players, chasing NPCs, buying shiny new tows, etc.. it's a free world out there, EvE and anyone that pays the subscription has about equal right in saying or doing what they very well please.. It's leaches like you and the OPs opinion that LABEL every one that doesn't somehow seem to fit their narrow minded set of brain activity funcions and so they MUST show to be the BETTER and CLAIM everyone else as those inferior ****s that are no good for anything! Eve is a game, it is a place where people are being entertained, and should be used for entertainment. This is IMO the way EvE should be played "as intended", NOT the way some ppl willing and having 20hrs/day to waste tell me i should play it like! now go read a book, you seem to have played too much with your computer for one day...
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:23:00 - [79] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory Miri - mission running is in no way shape or form PVP.... and stuff No, sir, you are not getting the point. PvP is not all about direct confrontation between two players armed to the teeth duking it out. PvP is about influencing the game, and therefore everyone else who plays it. Whilst one might achieve a more substantial and immediate effect by blowing up some poor sob's mission-o-matic 2000, one can have just as a real effect on the, if not greater, by controlling the market prices through buyouts and collusion, etc, etc. Player C could hire player A to kill player B, player C is PvPing. Player C could sell modules to player A, player C is pvping (most of those corporate miners fit in this category). Player C could lose his ship because he fell asleep at the wheel, and he could be PvPing by continuing to vote on the market with his wallet. You seem to have limited PvP to strictly direct PvP combat, which is not what many here allude to. For a better understanding of PvP, please read about butterfly effect and understand that every action you do in a mmorpg directly or indirectly affect all of us, no matter how minute that said effect. It is not just "blow up his ship".
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Perani Originally by: Zephyr Mallory Miri - mission running is in no way shape or form PVP.... and stuff No, sir, you are not getting the point. PvP is not all about direct confrontation between two players armed to the teeth duking it out. PvP is about influencing the game, and therefore everyone else who plays it. Whilst one might achieve a more substantial and immediate effect by blowing up some poor sob's mission-o-matic 2000, one can have just as a real effect on the, if not greater, by controlling the market prices through buyouts and collusion, etc, etc. Player C could hire player A to kill player B, player C is PvPing. Player C could sell modules to player A, player C is pvping (most of those corporate miners fit in this category). Player C could lose his ship because he fell asleep at the wheel, and he could be PvPing by continuing to vote on the market with his wallet. You seem to have limited PvP to strictly direct PvP combat, which is not what many here allude to. For a better understanding of PvP, please read about butterfly effect and understand that every action you do in a mmorpg directly or indirectly affect all of us, no matter how minute that said effect. It is not just "blow up his ship". Oh, like me making a LOT of money in high sec trading and hauling, and paying mercs to incite mayhem far afield - just to hear the screams...

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:25:00 - [81] Originally by: Morp p'LLoran My personal definition of carebears - players who want everything easymode. AFK miner who moans and *** when his ore get's stolen = carebear PVE'er who moans and * about harder missions, low reward () ect = carebear Pirates who moans and *** about not enough soft targets = carebear 0.0 Ratter who log when there is danger, instead of evading it = carebear. Many more examples, but hope you get the idea. All who just work around the difficulties in Empire, Low-sec, o.o = normal EVE players, whether they are haulin, building, rattin or killing. There is NO easy mode in this game my friend, what someone LABELS as tedious, i.e. mining, ratting, doing missions, is what the other people play eve for. Much the same way they see sitting in a gank squad and popping shuttles for the mindless twisted fun and feel of superiority. It's all about perception really, so don't FORCE your opinion on others, and drop LABELS such as "EASYMODE", b/c all it is is your perception of the game and the way others chose to play it!
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:36:00 - [82] Originally by: Agent Li Imagine, if you will, an industrialist who makes a ton of isk in empire space, solely to pay mercs to wail on each other... Haha, funny thing is that, you know, this happens in real life: both sides of the civil war can receive arms from the same supplier. Maybe we should camp outside of the weapon makers' headquarters with signs, "You don't PvP, we hate you carebears".
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:36:00 - [83] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Cadela Fria What are you talking about??? what he says makes perfect sense! And just for the record, no! EVE does not have the same ups and downs as WoW...EVE is a sandbox game, and WoW is a themepark game. If you don't know what that is, go look it up. There are no areas specific for anything in EVE..it's up to you entirely. Even high-sec can be used for PvP and low-sec PvE, so THAT is nonsense. I thought that Eve was like the way Lego used to be (just blocks you could put together any way you could imagine), and WoW is the way Lego is now - where you have to use the parts to build the fancy thing on the box cover. +5 Insightful ---------- IBTL \o/
Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:37:00 - [84] Edited by: Stinky Spaniel on 16/11/2006 16:40:25 Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel THat does not even make sense and just makes my point even more. What has wow got to do with this, it is another MMO and probably has the same ups and downs as EVE? Are you saying if there was a PvE only EVE server you would prefer that ? or the PVP only one not sure which game type you are into. We already have seperate areas for PvE and PVP its called low and High sec. I Completely dont understand your posts contribution to the discussion. Sorry. Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content? NO I am SAYING that for people that are faced with these ALIEN ideas in EvE, you should go play WoW (much the same way you advise other players of EvE, who actually like the game the way it is and respect others in it, to go play other game titles). Because in WoW afaik, there are dedicated server for each person play style, so ppl with limited cognitive abilities do not feel ALIENATED !!! Ok fair enougth, i have some work to do so my last post, but why do players of any MMO play online games when all they intend to do is play them solo or with 2nd accounts?? Why not simply play a similar off line game for free if there is no interaction with other human players. Obviously some people love MSORPGs, Massivley solo online role playing games, and again finally i find this concept strange and Alien. Im not sure why you keep prattling on about WoW. Whats so good about that game that everyone refers to it so much? Im sure that MMORPG also has many MSORPGers. I dont think i said everyone solos the game? i asked those that do, why do they ?? Why so hostile? calm down and be constructive.
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:37:00 - [85] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 16/11/2006 16:39:25 Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content?[/quote AAHAHAH.. AHAHHAH oooh ohhhh.. another ALIEN concept for you eh m8? .. well gee, lets see, there are things as entertainment, limited game time for working individuals, different time zones, need for a piece for quiet time away from ppl like you, and things like personal choice. You apparently think that EVERYONE does SOLO 100% of the game, just probably you do what you do in eve 100% of the time (i mean the same thing over and over). Well pal, hate to break it to you, but people like variety, otherwise we would all drive "black Fords". PS: If my last remark feels also a bit alien to you I suggest you advise with your corp mates before attemtping a reply... might save you the feeling of alienation from the RL. Theres no reason to get personal with the guy just because he doesn't get a point you're making. Thats just poor quality..the kind of bleep that ruins a good argument. Yeah, I'm saying this even though I agreed with earlier points you made. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:38:00 - [86] Eve is exactly how lego used to be. You remember when that one kid would look at what you built with your imagination and say "that doesn't look anything like what's on the box, you don't know how to play with legos the right way" ....
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:42:00 - [87] Originally by: Perani Originally by: Agent Li Imagine, if you will, an industrialist who makes a ton of isk in empire space, solely to pay mercs to wail on each other... Haha, funny thing is that, you know, this happens in real life: both sides of the civil war can receive arms from the same supplier. Maybe we should camp outside of the weapon makers' headquarters with signs, "You don't PvP, we hate you carebears". Now imagine this. Imagine I have two characters, and both are industrials that make a lot of isk, and have set up POS to manufacture things like Hammerhead II, etc. The char and the alt sell to opposing sides - I make money no matter what happens. At that rate, it wouldn't matter if I lost ships at lowsec gates every now and then. It would just be part of the price of doing business. And business would be good, considering how often most pew pew PvPers get blown up, or need new drones and ammo.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:42:00 - [88] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: Zephyr Mallory DeadDuck. Like I said it only applies in 0 space and to alliance members... all the other ones are fine by me. Even the corps that pay taxes to mine there.. oh well, they pay so let them mine 24h per day if they want to.... What I dont like is the ones that belong to a alliance corp, that when troubles apear are always with some other things to do, are afk or about to go afk, never apear in alliance activities, whatever they are, escorting duties, mining ops, pos refuelling, pvp ... but you look at them showing the fancy new faction item or asking in alliance how much the faction ship costs. Well there is a simple answer for that m8, contact your alliance CEO, put these people in probation, let them know that if they continue to not contribute they will be banned, and if they keep their course expell them from the alliance, no reason to whine on the forums for what happens inhouse your alliance...
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:44:00 - [89] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 16/11/2006 16:45:58 Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel THat does not even make sense and just makes my point even more. What has wow got to do with this, it is another MMO and probably has the same ups and downs as EVE? Are you saying if there was a PvE only EVE server you would prefer that ? or the PVP only one not sure which game type you are into. We already have seperate areas for PvE and PVP its called low and High sec. I Completely dont understand your posts contribution to the discussion. Sorry. Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content? NO I am SAYING that for people that are faced with these ALIEN ideas in EvE, you should go play WoW (much the same way you advise other players of EvE, who actually like the game the way it is and respect others in it, to go play other game titles). Because in WoW afaik, there are dedicated server for each person play style, so ppl with limited cognitive abilities do not feel ALIENATED !!! Ok fair enougth, i have some work to do so my last post, but why do players of any MMO play online games when all they intend to do is play them solo or with 2nd accounts?? Why not simply play a similar off line game for free if there is no interaction with other human players. Obviously some people love MSORPGs, Massivley solo online role playing games, and again finally i find this concept strange and Alien. Im not sure why you keep prattling on about WoW. Whats so good about that game that everyone refers to it so much? Im sure that MMORPG also has many MSORPGers. If you want to find out why some people play this game and avoid human interaction, go ask them, if you can get in contact with them. Everyone has their own reasons, and thats just fine -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Cadela Fria Theres no reason to get personal with the guy just because he doesn't get a point you're making. Thats just poor quality..the kind of bleep that ruins a good argument. Yeah, I'm saying this even though I agreed with earlier points you made. Well Cadela I reply on forums ONLY when i feel strongly about something, don't have the time to be wasting a day getting my point through to someone who might not get it in a year... sorry. I will do my best to be milder tho.

Zephyr Mallory Limberry Aegis GmbH	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:45:00 - [91] Scorpio - please take a couple seconds more to edit your quotes.. you're making it look like I said that bit that DD replied to my quote with.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:47:00 - [92] Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Edited by: Stinky Spaniel on 16/11/2006 16:40:25 Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel THat does not even make sense and just makes my point even more. What has wow got to do with this, it is another MMO and probably has the same ups and downs as EVE? Are you saying if there was a PvE only EVE server you would prefer that ? or the PVP only one not sure which game type you are into. We already have seperate areas for PvE and PVP its called low and High sec. I Completely dont understand your posts contribution to the discussion. Sorry. Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content? NO I am SAYING that for people that are faced with these ALIEN ideas in EvE, you should go play WoW (much the same way you advise other players of EvE, who actually like the game the way it is and respect others in it, to go play other game titles). Because in WoW afaik, there are dedicated server for each person play style, so ppl with limited cognitive abilities do not feel ALIENATED !!! Ok fair enougth, i have some work to do so my last post, but why do players of any MMO play online games when all they intend to do is play them solo or with 2nd accounts?? Why not simply play a similar off line game for free if there is no interaction with other human players. Obviously some people love MSORPGs, Massivley solo online role playing games, and again finally i find this concept strange and Alien. Im not sure why you keep prattling on about WoW. Whats so good about that game that everyone refers to it so much? Im sure that MMORPG also has many MSORPGers. I dont think i said everyone solos the game? i asked those that do, why do they ?? Why so hostile? calm down and be constructive. To CADELA.. see why I'm harsh.. the guy is asking THE SAME QUESTION AGAIN.. I mean.. how much of the same answer should I give them.. and keep explaining ??? Maybe you can take over nicely... To Stinky.. Well buddy, I/we do NOT and ARE not going to play another game because I/we LIKE EvE. Is that a good enough reason for you or you'd like some world impacting reason to understand that people do things because people like things...
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:47:00 - [93] Originally by: Zephyr Mallory Scorpio - please take a couple seconds more to edit your quotes.. you're making it look like I said that bit that DD replied to my quote with. Just add a /quote in square brackets after what he said finishes (just before you start typing..look at the reply I made it..I fixed it, but, nobody replied to it :P) that fixes it -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:48:00 - [94] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Cadela Fria Theres no reason to get personal with the guy just because he doesn't get a point you're making. Thats just poor quality..the kind of bleep that ruins a good argument. Yeah, I'm saying this even though I agreed with earlier points you made. Well Cadela I reply on forums ONLY when i feel strongly about something, don't have the time to be wasting a day getting my point through to someone who might not get it in a year... sorry. I will do my best to be milder tho. Good style, thank you..I know how you feel though, trust me -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:49:00 - [95] I dont really get it why ppl is so against Carebears... I guess i am a carabear too.....but on the other side...i dont got a rich uncle who can poor isk in to my wallet so i can join the pvp fight or wars.... So basicly i need some sort of income so i can take part in the fightings.... No isk, no ships, skills or equipments, wars, pvp or whatever.....So to me being a carabear is a must....without it theres really no game for me...
Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:50:00 - [96] Edited by: Stinky Spaniel on 16/11/2006 16:52:01 If you want to find out why some people play this game and avoid human interaction, go ask them, if you can get in contact with them. Everyone has their own reasons, and thats just fine Yes you are right, im not sure what Mr Black Scorpian was going on about. Too much coffee or sugar perhaps. And your answer for me asking a question you dont know is that I go play WOW ?!? lol
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:50:00 - [97] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel Edited by: Stinky Spaniel on 16/11/2006 16:40:25 Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel THat does not even make sense and just makes my point even more. What has wow got to do with this, it is another MMO and probably has the same ups and downs as EVE? Are you saying if there was a PvE only EVE server you would prefer that ? or the PVP only one not sure which game type you are into. We already have seperate areas for PvE and PVP its called low and High sec. I Completely dont understand your posts contribution to the discussion. Sorry. Why would anyone want to pay $150+ a year for a solo player game with very limited content? NO I am SAYING that for people that are faced with these ALIEN ideas in EvE, you should go play WoW (much the same way you advise other players of EvE, who actually like the game the way it is and respect others in it, to go play other game titles). Because in WoW afaik, there are dedicated server for each person play style, so ppl with limited cognitive abilities do not feel ALIENATED !!! Ok fair enougth, i have some work to do so my last post, but why do players of any MMO play online games when all they intend to do is play them solo or with 2nd accounts?? Why not simply play a similar off line game for free if there is no interaction with other human players. Obviously some people love MSORPGs, Massivley solo online role playing games, and again finally i find this concept strange and Alien. Im not sure why you keep prattling on about WoW. Whats so good about that game that everyone refers to it so much? Im sure that MMORPG also has many MSORPGers. I dont think i said everyone solos the game? i asked those that do, why do they ?? Why so hostile? calm down and be constructive. To CADELA.. see why I'm harsh.. the guy is asking THE SAME QUESTION AGAIN.. I mean.. how much of the same answer should I give them.. and keep explaining ??? Maybe you can take over nicely... To Stinky.. Well buddy, I/we do NOT and ARE not going to play another game because I/we LIKE EvE. Is that a good enough reason for you or you'd like some world impacting reason to understand that people do things because people like things... I know, I know..I made a short reply if you look up, because evidently, getting into long explanatory posts will make the point lost. Truth be told, the questions he asks are unanswerable unless you go ask the actual people who play by themselves...but one simple answer though as a substitute, is people play for all their own reasons, and thats percetly fine. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:51:00 - [98] The answer to everything! Re-enslave the Matari! ... Or genocide.. I forget which works better.
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:52:00 - [99] Originally by: Happster I dont really get it why ppl is so against Carebears... I guess i am a carabear too.....but on the other side...i dont got a rich uncle who can poor isk in to my wallet so i can join the pvp fight or wars.... So basicly i need some sort of income so i can take part in the fightings.... No isk, no ships, skills or equipments, wars, pvp or whatever.....So to me being a carabear is a must....without it theres really no game for me... Read my long post on page 3 about the greatest misconception of this thread -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:53:00 - [100] Originally by: Weirda carebear is good eating! I think this is really the easiest way to look at it. starts chewing left arm ---------- IBTL \o/

Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:55:00 - [101] Gallente Carebears have a slightly more exotic flavor.. whereas Minmatar are more like beef jerky and keep better on long trips.
Zeknichov Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:57:00 - [102] Edited by: Zeknichov on 16/11/2006 16:59:31 Originally by: Sovereign533 there is lots to say to the word 'Carebear'... what really is an 'carebear'? a fluffy bear? well, on tv, probaly... in Eve, no... i like to think that carebears are nothing but egocentric ppl who don't care about anything exept their own wallet... like joining an alliance, doing nothing but hunt npc's or mine for their own profit... i wanted to highlight this because npc'ing and mining isn't bad... you need isk to buy t2 modules, skills etc... you need minerals to build ships, ammo, modules etc... while industrialists are a better word... i still say '** carebears', and i really hate them... but i love industrialists... i need my ships, i need ammo even more... we keep these industrialists in our alliances and low sec corporations, because we need them... we provide protection, the best belts... and help them when needed... and the industrialist can do what he/she likes best... mine all day, build all day, research all day... and ofcourse, this industrialist also needs money... but a Tier 2 Battleship for 90mil isk, isn't that bad... it won't be as much as the 108mil for them... but i think it's a small price to pay... as an industrialist, you have loyal customers that do anything to try to protect you... the price i stated, it's just an example... all i mean to say with this is that i don't pay the full price of an industrialist when i help protecting his belts... everything wants something in return for their efforts... don't you? what is your oppinion about this? We all seem to have our own definition of a carebear. Yours is well, more of the definition of an *****. Carebears by definition should not even play EVE. Carebears are someone who when an MMO is an development they argue against any form of meaningful PvP. I don't know what better way to compare carebear to not carebear rather then stating. EVE and Shadowbane are at the top when it comes to PvP systems. WoW battlegrounds is the perfect definition of carebear. In EVE you can LOSE at PvP. When you die you lose isk, no one has an unlimited supply of isk, eventually someone loses a war/fight. In WoW it's zerg zerg zerg zerg zerg kekekekekekekekekekkeke until you're bored. That is carebear. Meaningful PvP = PvPer PvP without meaning = Carebear Meaning is defined as the capability to FORCE both a gain or loss on another. If I can't make someone lose something or if I cannot make myself gain something then PvP has no meaning. When you hear someone say "The fun of PvP in the joy of fighting" (a popular phrase in the WoW community,) it's merely an excuse for a carebear PvP system. Yes the fun is in the fight but it's the aftermath of the fight that gives PvP meaning and keeps players playing.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:59:00 - [103] The word carebear should never ever be used. It means something at least slightly different to absolutely everyone. ---------- IBTL \o/
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:00:00 - [104] Carebear gumbo, carebear kabobs, carebear scampi, grilled carebear, carebear tartar...
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:01:00 - [105] Originally by: Pirate Tom Carebear gumbo, carebear kabobs, carebear scampi, grilled carebear, carebear tartar... ....mouthwater drippling....grabs Zealot and flies off to hunt carebears -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:01:00 - [106] Oh FFS I'm actually hungry now ---------- IBTL \o/
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:03:00 - [107] Originally by: Stinky Spaniel If you want to find out why some people play this game and avoid human interaction, go ask them, if you can get in contact with them. Everyone has their own reasons, and thats just fine Yes you are right, im not sure what Mr Black Scorpian was going on about. Too much coffee or sugar perhaps. Well if you bothered to read my post you would, I will quote that for you but don't have the time to bother, ready above, should this post be 11 pages of the same quotes so you can FINALLY read what people are trying to tell you? and the reason as I said and is simple (here I'll put in in a separate line below for you:) People like to do what they please in a GAME world. There are different likes as there are different people. Therefore there are things that you will not understand, simply because people think in a different way and like different things. You may not understand it, however is as valid in game as what you like to do! Hope I am explaining this good enough to you!
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:04:00 - [108] Remember all you carebear iron chefs out there... you must heat the inside of a carebear to at least 14,000,000¦Kelvin or else you might catch something. The liberal application of filT and some paprika helps too.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:06:00 - [109] remember though a diehard industrialist PvPs just not with a laser and cruise launcher. the market is a rough place where ISK can be lost in greater volumes then raw combat.
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh FFS I'm actually hungry now Fire, Fusion, and Steel? Which version?

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:07:00 - [111] Blasted :) with all this food talk you got me hungry, .. good for me it's almost lunch time :D I am thinking a double mushroom and swiss cheese burger with tomatoes, lettuce and roasted peppers ftw hehe.. Oh about carebears.. here's how they look and they're fluffy
Seine State War Academy	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:07:00 - [112] Edited by: Seine on 16/11/2006 17:09:14 First off, get your information correct! Carebear is someone who prefers not to pvp. all the other random definitions people come up with are wrong. Make up a word for whatever you want to call people, but don't missues a word with a lot of Stigma already. Second, the people whinning about carebears not pvping, those type of people are THE REASON I DON'T PVP. I have been a carebear all my MMO life, I always prefer running missions, collection loot...etc. I certainly don't hate the ** pvpers, I just don't talk to them, I don't try to convince them that they are playing the game wrong. Some PvPers hate anyone who plays differently than them. With every new generation of people playing MMOs the hate for Carebears is being bred into people, this is very frightening to me. What happens in a few years or a decade with the new crop of MMO pvpers hate carebears so much for reason they don't even know? This is just plain ol' factional hate of any group that is different. I am very disapointed in all of you, and I don't trust any of you ***** guys. I am bound to get flamed for this. anyone who thinks anything but the pvp "party" line does.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:08:00 - [113] Originally by: Black Scorpio Blasted :) with all this food talk you got me hungry, .. good for me it's almost lunch time :D I am thinking a double mushroom and swiss cheese burger with tomatoes, lettuce and roasted peppers ftw hehe.. Oh about carebears.. here's how they look and they're fluffy Yes, I'll have fries with that too
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:09:00 - [114] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh FFS I'm actually hungry now Fire, Fusion, and Steel? Which version? +QuT? ---------- IBTL \o/
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:11:00 - [115] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh FFS I'm actually hungry now Fire, Fusion, and Steel? Which version? +QuT? From the ancient days.... http://www.electric-rain.net/Traveller/default.htm
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:20:00 - [116] Good I think this meaningless LABEL of a thread is about done now, lets all go to lunch/dinner or whatever we like to do, or maybe read one of the more meaningful posts out there! GL to you all and have fun in EvE!
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:37:00 - [117] I win!
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:39:00 - [118] Originally by: Pirate Tom I win! You what? ---------- IBTL \o/
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:40:00 - [119] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh FFS I'm actually hungry now Fire, Fusion, and Steel? Which version? +QuT? Traveller RPG
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:41:00 - [120] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel If you want to find out why some people play this game and avoid human interaction, go ask them, if you can get in contact with them. Everyone has their own reasons, and thats just fine Yes you are right, im not sure what Mr Black Scorpian was going on about. Too much coffee or sugar perhaps. Well if you bothered to read my post you would, I will quote that for you but don't have the time to bother, ready above, should this post be 11 pages of the same quotes so you can FINALLY read what people are trying to tell you? and the reason as I said and is simple (here I'll put in in a separate line below for you:) People like to do what they please in a GAME world. There are different likes as there are different people. Therefore there are things that you will not understand, simply because people think in a different way and like different things. You may not understand it, however is as valid in game as what you like to do! Hope I am explaining this good enough to you! Uh...misunderstanding here!! I was agreeing with Black Scorpion, not you Stinky Spaniel -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right

Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:52:00 - [121] hmm.. now I need to get everyone thinking about mid-afternoon snack since lunchtime is nearing completion.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 - [122] Flame-grilled whiner ---------- IBTL \o/
Stinky Spaniel	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:09:00 - [123] Originally by: Cadela Fria Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Stinky Spaniel If you want to find out why some people play this game and avoid human interaction, go ask them, if you can get in contact with them. Everyone has their own reasons, and thats just fine Yes you are right, im not sure what Mr Black Scorpian was going on about. Too much coffee or sugar perhaps. Well if you bothered to read my post you would, I will quote that for you but don't have the time to bother, ready above, should this post be 11 pages of the same quotes so you can FINALLY read what people are trying to tell you? and the reason as I said and is simple (here I'll put in in a separate line below for you:) People like to do what they please in a GAME world. There are different likes as there are different people. Therefore there are things that you will not understand, simply because people think in a different way and like different things. You may not understand it, however is as valid in game as what you like to do! Hope I am explaining this good enough to you! Uh...misunderstanding here!! I was agreeing with Black Scorpion, not you Stinky Spaniel Hey i dont care mate im at home playing eve now lol... You said exactly the right thing anyway, the only people that know why they have chosen solo play in a multiplayer game are the people that do it. Anyone elses opinion is just an opinion, as they obviously dont know as they dont do it in the 1st place. Scorp was on some weird WoW bashing mission sideline, when all he had to do was say, I dont know the answer why people play solo, other than they choose to. Well i dont know why murderes kill people over than they choose to but if I examine their profile i could get a rough idea why!? You identified that, all be it not aimed at me apparently and i agreed loosk like we were both thinkign the same thing anyway as usualy happens in forums. Anyway EvE time Forum warrioring again when im bored to tears at work tomorrow! have fun.
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:15:00 - [124] hauler fajitas with a dash of escort sauce for spice.
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:21:00 - [125] Edited by: Happster on 16/11/2006 21:24:15 There is different types of carabears as there is different types of pvpers.... Cant really say it take so much skills to run around killing retrievers, haulers, shutlers or other small targets when you flying a BS....That is also pvp. Same when pvpers attack ratters.....most of the time they wait to do their move so their target has to tank both them and the ratts. Again....pvpers look for the easy way.... Most of the time this is the kind of pvpers i see. They hide and look for an easy target....yes...easy target. So for ppl to come here and say pvp is soooo much harder then example L4 missions is actually funny. Many of you, speak of where is the risk? I wanna ask you the same....where is the risk? None risk what so ever!!! Same in fleet combats.....where is the skills needed to take part of it? all you do is shoot at the target FC tell you to shoot at. No pilot skills needed....you only need to follow order. But!! yes there is a few pvpers that actually do look for good fights and "fairness" if i can say so... But from my experience those are few.....most pvpers want it the easy way.... Ive yet to see a pirate actually got the balls to start a fight he doesnt know he can win.... On the other hand....i guess those pvpers that do good fights dont usally whine in forums either.... Edit: Only one reason i join in fleet ops, wars and pvp......because of the social aspecter....i like playing along with other ppl


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