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Ferox is a better missile boat than a Drake now let's look.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:10:00 - [121] yes it is the nerf caldari conspiracy. slowly changing a bonus here, removing a slot there you will be nudged down to amarr level.
Vendrin Caldari APEX Unlimited Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:12:00 - [122] Originally by: Keta Min yes it is the nerf caldari conspiracy. slowly changing a bonus here, removing a slot there you will be nudged down to amarr level. The problem is that instead of boosting the other tier 2 bcs to be equal to the Drake, he just did a kneejerk nerf. Just like kneejerk 50% increase to hp and capacitator, doing what's easiest instead of looking at a good way to do things. _____________________________________ APEX Unlimited is recruiting. Join channel APEXCOM for information!
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:14:00 - [123] Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox Yes, but only WHEN YOU ADD MORE TURRET SLOTS. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Gorion Wassenar I think Nikolai Novalari the rail afficianado who has almost all his rail/gunning skills maxed won't even touch the Ferox with a 10' pole as a rail ship as pretty good proof. Never heard of him. He can't spell my name, but he's correct. I have every conceivable skill maxed out for using the Ferox as a rail ship and I never do it, because it's almost as useless with rails as a T1 Moa. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:20:00 - [125] Oh, and the infamous picture. Remember kids... --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:21:00 - [126] Originally by: Vendrin Originally by: Keta Min yes it is the nerf caldari conspiracy. slowly changing a bonus here, removing a slot there you will be nudged down to amarr level. The problem is that instead of boosting the other tier 2 bcs to be equal to the Drake, he just did a kneejerk nerf. Just like kneejerk 50% increase to hp and capacitator, doing what's easiest instead of looking at a good way to do things. Excuse me but the last thing this game needs is 4 battlecruisers capable of soloing battleships with ease. That's why you don't always buff. If you have 2 ships at an acceptable power level and 2 ships over that power level, it makes NO sense whatsoever to make 4 ships that are overpowered. What do you do after that? Buff every other ship in the game too? Nerfing the drake was the right answer.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:22:00 - [127] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari He can't spell my name, but he's correct. I have every conceivable skill maxed out for using the Ferox as a rail ship and I never do it, because it's almost as useless with rails as a T1 Moa. Why?
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:25:00 - [128] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar The problem I see with being restricted to Kinetic is that having the bonus for only one damage type means that unless we use Kinetic, the ship basically has only one bonus while the others have 2. When I use Laz0rs on my Brutix I lose one ship bonus too. Now that sux! Give the Brutix a Laz0r Bonus along with Hybrid and Projectile.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:34:00 - [129] Originally by: Hydrian Alante Originally by: Gorion Wassenar The problem I see with being restricted to Kinetic is that having the bonus for only one damage type means that unless we use Kinetic, the ship basically has only one bonus while the others have 2. When I use Laz0rs on my Brutix I lose one ship bonus too. Now that sux! Give the Brutix a Laz0r Bonus along with Hybrid and Projectile. I lose the bonus on my vexor when people shoot my drones. Unfair! OMG~!
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:34:00 - [130] To be honest frigates were changed from rate of fire to racial damage bonus (double dmg bonus mind you..) because something about frig weapons + rof = lag or something since they fire so fast, at least that was the excuse.. Anyways I would like to see rate of fire on caldari ships over kinetic damage, i really don't like the fact caldari get a dmg bonus to 1 damage type while other races get a damage bonus to two, since turret ammo always does two or more damage types. Quote: Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ

Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:37:00 - [131] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Excuse me but the last thing this game needs is 4 battlecruisers capable of soloing battleships with ease. That's why you don't always buff. If you have 2 ships at an acceptable power level and 2 ships over that power level, it makes NO sense whatsoever to make 4 ships that are overpowered. And guess what, the problem that was making the Drake so powerful was its TANK. The DPS, while high for a missile boat, was still not way out of proportion to what existing BCs can do. But the TANK was far too good. So naturally the solution was to slash the DPS instead, so now we have a Ferox, and a Ferox with a different model.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:41:00 - [132] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari He can't spell my name, but he's correct. I have every conceivable skill maxed out for using the Ferox as a rail ship and I never do it, because it's almost as useless with rails as a T1 Moa. Why? Ever tried shooting at something with 5 medium railguns and no damage bonus? There's not much point to it, really. The biggest joke is the range bonus. Yes, it can shoot from farther away, but when it can't kill anything in a reasonable amount of time, and it's slower than my arthritic great-grandmother, your target will be able to move into its own preferred range before you've even dented its shields, making you "ability" to "snipe" irrelevant. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:43:00 - [133] Anyway, my final verdict on this thread is exactly what I've been saying for months: BRING BACK TomB! He was evil and ruthless, but highly effective, and very fair. Tuxford just seems to work on a mixture of incompetence and sloppiness. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:43:00 - [134] Originally by: Captain Raynor Anyways I would like to see rate of fire on caldari ships over kinetic damage, i really don't like the fact caldari get a dmg bonus to 1 damage type while other races get a damage bonus to two, since turret ammo always does two or more damage types. I really don't like that I can't put another ammo type in my blasters to do a different type of damage. Want to trade?
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:45:00 - [135] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari He can't spell my name, but he's correct. I have every conceivable skill maxed out for using the Ferox as a rail ship and I never do it, because it's almost as useless with rails as a T1 Moa. Why? Ever tried shooting at something with 5 medium railguns and no damage bonus? There's not much point to it, really. The biggest joke is the range bonus. Yes, it can shoot from farther away, but when it can't kill anything in a reasonable amount of time, and it's slower than my arthritic great-grandmother, your target will be able to move into its own preferred range before you've even dented its shields, making you "ability" to "snipe" irrelevant. Snipers are snipers. Their advantage is in range, not in tanking in-close targets. You know that. As for the 5 weapons comment, you be sure to let me know when the ferox only has 5 high slots, ok? Try fitting missiles in the last 2. Jav HAMs can easily match your railgun range.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:46:00 - [136] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari He was evil and ruthless, but highly effective, and very fair. Tuxford just seems to work on a mixture of incompetence and sloppiness. Tuxford has to run all his changes by TomB. What's that do to your request?
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:48:00 - [137] Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 19/11/2006 03:49:11 Originally by: Hydrian Alante When I use Laz0rs on my Brutix I lose one ship bonus too. Now that sux! Give the Brutix a Laz0r Bonus along with Hybrid and Projectile. The major difference here is that missiles are the Drake's intended weapons and lasers are not the intended weapon of the Brutix. How fun would be only have a rep bonus for only med sheild reppers? ------------------ CEO of TKI
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 03:57:00 - [138] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Snipers are snipers. Their advantage is in range, not in tanking in-close targets. You know that. Except with the Ferox's low dps and horrible speed, try KEEPING a target at long range long enough to kill it. Quote: As for the 5 weapons comment, you be sure to let me know when the ferox only has 5 high slots, ok? Try fitting missiles in the last 2. Jav HAMs can easily match your railgun range. Have you ever tried fitting a Ferox? Fit 5x 250mm rails. Then cry as you realize you have 100% grid use, and 5 mids + 2 highs left to fill. Ok... so you use fitting mods to add some heavy launchers. Now where's your tank? You have about enough grid left to maybe fit a civilian shield booster.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:01:00 - [139] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Have you ever tried fitting a Ferox? Fit 5x 250mm rails. Then cry as you realize you have 100% grid use, and 5 mids + 2 highs left to fill. Ok... so you use fitting mods to add some heavy launchers. Now where's your tank? You have about enough grid left to maybe fit a civilian shield booster. So your complaint about the ferox is that it can't fit both the biggest guns and a huge tank? God, you caldari types are spoiled by your missile boats. Name a gunboat that CAN do that.
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:05:00 - [140] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Merin Ryskin Have you ever tried fitting a Ferox? Fit 5x 250mm rails. Then cry as you realize you have 100% grid use, and 5 mids + 2 highs left to fill. Ok... so you use fitting mods to add some heavy launchers. Now where's your tank? You have about enough grid left to maybe fit a civilian shield booster. So your complaint about the ferox is that it can't fit both the biggest guns and a huge tank? God, you caldari types are spoiled by your missile boats. Name a gunboat that CAN do that. No, it can't fit the biggest guns (necessary to get enough range to actually snipe) and ANY tank. 5x 250mm rails = literally 100% grid use with Engineering V. That means NO tank, not "not a huge tank". And that STILL leaves your 6th and 7th high slot EMPTY, even if you put fitting mods in your low slots to get a tank.

Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:14:00 - [141] Originally by: Merin Ryskin No, it can't fit the biggest guns (necessary to get enough range to actually snipe) and ANY tank. 5x 250mm rails = literally 100% grid use with Engineering V. That means NO tank, not "not a huge tank". And that STILL leaves your 6th and 7th high slot EMPTY, even if you put fitting mods in your low slots to get a tank. I knew your math sounded fishy so I just logged in and put 5 250mm railgun IIs on a ferox. 1062 grid used out of 1250. That's not even close to 100%. Throw on 2 PDS IIs and now you're talking 1378 total grid leaving PLENTY of room for a tank and 2 missiles. If you use your rigs for shield extenders instead of your mids (and thus increasing your PvP potential anyway) you can get over 16,000 shields and a decent passive tank. And it all fits.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:15:00 - [142] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari He was evil and ruthless, but highly effective, and very fair. Tuxford just seems to work on a mixture of incompetence and sloppiness. Tuxford has to run all his changes by TomB. What's that do to your request? The fact that TomB is willing to sign off on Tuxford's dumb ideas does not in any way affect the fact that TomB most likely wouldn't have come up with most of those dumb ideas in the first place, had he been doing the job himself. As for everything else you said, Merin already answered for me quite nicely. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:17:00 - [143] Oh look you posted again before mine hit. Let's see, you posted about...ooh, dual fitting mod setups. Brilliant --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Earl Walker	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:17:00 - [144] Edited by: Earl Walker on 19/11/2006 04:17:34
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:19:00 - [145] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Oh look you posted again before mine hit. Let's see, you posted about...ooh, dual fitting mod setups. Brilliant Power diagnostic systems on a ferox are standard issue. Have you ever even flown this ship? Or did you just decide one day after trying to fit it with low skills that it sucked and you'd never bother?
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:24:00 - [146] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 19/11/2006 04:26:04 Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Merin Ryskin No, it can't fit the biggest guns (necessary to get enough range to actually snipe) and ANY tank. 5x 250mm rails = literally 100% grid use with Engineering V. That means NO tank, not "not a huge tank". And that STILL leaves your 6th and 7th high slot EMPTY, even if you put fitting mods in your low slots to get a tank. I knew your math sounded fishy so I just logged in and put 5 250mm railgun IIs on a ferox. 1062 grid used out of 1250. That's not even close to 100%. Throw on 2 PDS IIs and now you're talking 1378 total grid leaving PLENTY of room for a tank and 2 missiles. If you use your rigs for shield extenders instead of your mids (and thus increasing your PvP potential anyway) you can get over 16,000 shields and a decent passive tank. And it all fits. Ok, my mistake, for some reason I thought 250mms were 250 grid not 225. But even considering your level V in a rank 6 skill: 5x 250 II + 2x heavy launcher II (not HAMs) = 127 grid left for tank. So you can fit most of ONE large extender with MAX fitting skills and two grid mods. And that's no AB/MWD, so you have no ability to hold range while your underwhelming dps wears down the target. This isn't "not an amazing tank", it's a pathetic tank. The Ferox needs at least one more turret slot, probably two, and the grid to fit rails with an effective setup. Until then, it'll be a poor gunboat, and better as a mediocre missile ship.
Karandor	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:27:00 - [147] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Merin Ryskin Have you ever tried fitting a Ferox? Fit 5x 250mm rails. Then cry as you realize you have 100% grid use, and 5 mids + 2 highs left to fill. Ok... so you use fitting mods to add some heavy launchers. Now where's your tank? You have about enough grid left to maybe fit a civilian shield booster. So your complaint about the ferox is that it can't fit both the biggest guns and a huge tank? God, you caldari types are spoiled by your missile boats. Name a gunboat that CAN do that. Cyclone can fit 5X720 II and 3X Heavy missile launchers, large booster, shield boost amp, 2X invul, ABII, 4 PDU II. Mission runner, but a **** nice one :)
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:27:00 - [148] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 19/11/2006 04:26:04 Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Merin Ryskin No, it can't fit the biggest guns (necessary to get enough range to actually snipe) and ANY tank. 5x 250mm rails = literally 100% grid use with Engineering V. That means NO tank, not "not a huge tank". And that STILL leaves your 6th and 7th high slot EMPTY, even if you put fitting mods in your low slots to get a tank. I knew your math sounded fishy so I just logged in and put 5 250mm railgun IIs on a ferox. 1062 grid used out of 1250. That's not even close to 100%. Throw on 2 PDS IIs and now you're talking 1378 total grid leaving PLENTY of room for a tank and 2 missiles. If you use your rigs for shield extenders instead of your mids (and thus increasing your PvP potential anyway) you can get over 16,000 shields and a decent passive tank. And it all fits. Ok, my mistake, for some reason I thought 250mms were 250 grid not 225. But even considering your level V in a rank 6 skill: 5x 250 II + 2x heavy launcher II (not HAMs) = 127 grid left for tank. So you can fit most of ONE large extender with MAX fitting skills and two grid mods. And that's no AB/MWD, so you have no ability to hold range while your underwhelming dps wears down the target. This isn't "not an amazing tank", it's a pathetic tank. The Ferox needs at least one more turret slot, probably two, and the grid to fit rails with an effective setup. Until then, it'll be a poor gunboat, and better as a mediocre missile ship. You somehow skipped right over the part where I said you should use your rig slots for extenders instead of your mids.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:28:00 - [149] Originally by: Karandor Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Merin Ryskin Have you ever tried fitting a Ferox? Fit 5x 250mm rails. Then cry as you realize you have 100% grid use, and 5 mids + 2 highs left to fill. Ok... so you use fitting mods to add some heavy launchers. Now where's your tank? You have about enough grid left to maybe fit a civilian shield booster. So your complaint about the ferox is that it can't fit both the biggest guns and a huge tank? God, you caldari types are spoiled by your missile boats. Name a gunboat that CAN do that. Cyclone can fit 5X720 II and 3X Heavy missile launchers, large booster, shield boost amp, 2X invul, ABII, 4 PDU II. Mission runner, but a **** nice one :) The ferox can do it too (with the rails) if you decide to use 4 fitting mods instead of the 2 I used.
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:32:00 - [150] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 19/11/2006 04:32:34 Originally by: Risien Drogonne You somehow skipped right over the part where I said you should use your rig slots for extenders instead of your mids. Right... so use your rig slots to make the mediocre ship acceptable, where the other pilots are using their rig slots to make their good ships amazing. Never mind that we don't know if those rigs are going to be reasonably priced, or the equivalent of saying 'well, if you fit 10 billion in officer loot, it's a good ship." Quote: The ferox can do it too (with the rails) if you decide to use 4 fitting mods instead of the 2 I used. Yay! Brilliant idea! Lets use 4x fitting mods and no damage mods! I wonder what kind of DPS we can get with a pathetic 5 railguns and zero damage mods... And of course if that number is even remotely acceptable at long range, it's only because of T2 sniper ammo. And we all know how controversial that one is.



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