EVE Search - Ferox is a better missile boat than a Drake now let's look.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Revelations Testing and Development

Ferox is a better missile boat than a Drake now let's look.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.18 18:06:00 - [61] Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight LMAO, ok. Cost doesn't matter eh? Thats the most rediculous thing I've heard yet. I demand all T2 ships be nerfed to T1 ships stats then. T2 ships are unbalanced then if the cost doesn't matter. Ignorant bastard. Well sure, if you're going to compare T1 and T2 then cost isn't an issue. But when you compare weapons within the same classes, just because the tech 2 of missiles might cost more compared to blasters, doesn't mean they should be better. That's just the free market doing its thing. The ignorant one is you. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 18:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox if that boosts the drake for you. Drake is fine. Kinetic damage is fine. Spouting ** like "kinetic damage sucks" is just bull** and you know it. Even so I bet Amarrians would love to be able to take a 25% damage drop and do explosive damage. The ship is fine and if you can't make it work its not the ship that sucks. Your an idiot and always have been. I dont think I have ever seen you think through changes to this game thoroughly even once. If the racial dmg bonuses are so good, why did you drop the racial dmg bonus from the drone users when they all whined like hell on the forums that you changed it within 24 hours. I called you and idiot then and I call you an idiot now. At worst you are a hypocrite. I could care less about this stupid kin bonus if you at least were consistant with it across all races, but hey since your not, I dont think anyone will think you know what your talking about.
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.18 18:09:00 - [63] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Nyxus Caldari Folks: The Drake isn't huring for DPS after the changes. And all it takes is T2 ammo, and LASERS. Oh yes, lasers on a shield-tanker, I bet that's just tons of fun. And I see you show that graph using kinetic. Now drop it to something else, and look at that uber sub-300DPS gankage. Nice. Not only that, inside of 15k we get absolutely smashed, and with our mids full of tank mods and the slowness of Caldari ships, there's nothing to prevent the other guy from dictating range. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Aki Yamato	Posted - 2006.11.18 18:28:00 - [64] Edited by: Aki Yamato on 18/11/2006 18:30:58 Many people ty to convince us that Rof bonush change wont drecrease Drakes DPS, so from from other side i wont increase it much from current state right ? Many people, even alergic on caldary admits that Rof Bonus is step between good and bad ship. I dont ... eh never mind any more word to this topic are worthless. It's time to switch to heavy railgun skills for Caldari, becose this BC cause is already lost. BIG GUN BIG FUTURE
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.18 18:55:00 - [65] Originally by: Aki Yamato Edited by: Aki Yamato on 18/11/2006 18:30:58 Many people ty to convince us that Rof bonush change wont drecrease Drakes DPS, so from from other side i wont increase it much from current state right ? Many people, even alergic on caldary admits that Rof Bonus is step between good and bad ship. I dont ... eh never mind any more word to this topic are worthless. It's time to switch to heavy railgun skills for Caldari, becose this BC cause is already lost. Can I have screenshots to prove you're training rail spec? ----
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:04:00 - [66] maybe tux has to write it all in caps and use a movie with Troy McClure to explain the obvios so even the last caldari gets it
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:04:00 - [67] The Drake is a fine boat - but I would seriously consider Tuxfrod to give it 7 launchers again (with no increase in cpu or powergrid)... with the nerf to RoF bonus people will have to chose between 7 launchers and 2 shield extenders or 6 launchers and 3 shield extenders (which with AWU 4 actually requires at least 1 PDS in lows). That would be a sweet touch and make the Drake versatile with a choice between nice damage and nice passive tank (requires minimum 3 LSE and 2-4 shield power relays) Pinky
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:17:00 - [68] Whaa whaa whaa, if u think the drake sux for pvp then don't use it. I'm mostly a missionrunner myself and i use(d) a NH for L4 missions, today i kitted out a drake and OMG!!! This will be an ubernasty missionrunner peeps!!! Kit: HI: 6 heavy launchers T2 MED: 1 LSB T2, 2 invulni T2, 2 racialspecific T2 lOW: 2 BCU T2, 1 Named DCU, 1 co proc T2 (didn't fit anything in the remaining hi slots but perhaps a TB or mebbe even a small nossie could fit (TB would be prefered and gonna try that later) So now i have a T1 ship with NH resists and only a little less dps. I Love the drake allready lets just hope they don't nerf it any further then this Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:27:00 - [69] Originally by: 000Hunter000 o.0 That about sums it up, the drake will be used for missioning and thats about it. Most people here are arguing to make it usefull for pvp though.
Aki Yamato	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Matrix Aran Originally by: Aki Yamato Edited by: Aki Yamato on 18/11/2006 18:30:58 Many people ty to convince us that Rof bonush change wont drecrease Drakes DPS, so from from other side i wont increase it much from current state right ? Many people, even alergic on caldary admits that Rof Bonus is step between good and bad ship. I dont ... eh never mind any more word to this topic are worthless. It's time to switch to heavy railgun skills for Caldari, becose this BC cause is already lost. Can I have screenshots to prove you're training rail spec? You can. here May I ask why do you want this proof ? BIG GUN BIG FUTURE

Asariasha Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:37:00 - [71] Edited by: Asariasha on 18/11/2006 19:37:53 Originally by: 000Hunter000 ...This will be an ubernasty missionrunner peeps!!!... And exactly this is the reason why so many Caldari are complaining about the nerf. Flying in PvP is obsolete in a Drake. Just another Missionrunner boat, but we really really want to have a decent close range boat to compete in PvP. Before Tux nerfed the Drake it was such a vessel and right now after the nerf, the Drake is around as good as a Ferox in terms of PvP competition. And I think most of you know how easily a Ferox gets pwned by a Brutix/Cyclone/Prophecy considering the opponents are fitted with casual PvP setup. And don't tell me Ferox has plenty meds to jam. With Kali only ECM specialized ships are able to use ECM in a successive way.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:37:00 - [72] Originally by: Keta Min maybe tux has to write it all in caps and use a movie with Troy McClure to explain the obvios so even the last caldari gets it What, that Caldari are ment to be a PvE race? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
000Hunter000 Gallente Leviathan Corperation LTD	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:44:00 - [73] u guys tried the heavy assault missiles yet? for getting up close and personal this seems to be it, i mean 3 sec refire? times 6? i still don't get what all u people are complaining about, it's a good ship and i'm gonna love using it, mebbe even for pvp. Prolly me but i don't get peoples obsession with numbers, i've flown it and loved it, thats all that matters to me. Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
Jasai Kameron The Palladium Union	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:44:00 - [74] Edited by: Jasai Kameron on 18/11/2006 19:45:46 Originally by: Riley Craven Your an idiot and always have been. I dont think I have ever seen you think through changes to this game thoroughly even once. If the racial dmg bonuses are so good, why did you drop the racial dmg bonus from the drone users when they all whined like hell on the forums that you changed it within 24 hours. I called you and idiot then and I call you an idiot now. At worst you are a hypocrite. I could care less about this stupid kin bonus if you at least were consistant with it across all races, but hey since your not, I dont think anyone will think you know what your talking about. But drones are different. The damage reduction is already built in to drones. EM tech 2 drones have a damage modifier of 1.38, Thermal t2 drones have a damage modifier of 1.92. That's before before skills. If the ship bonus was racial damage only it would be a double damage reduction - a fair one plus a ridiculously huge one given that the bonus is 10% damage and hp per level. Drones which aren't thermal would be completely unusable on a drone ship like the Dom or the Ishtar. At a rough guess, they'd do about half the dps. Not to mention having less hp and being easier to destroy. You can still use non-kinetic missiles on the Drake without such a huge reduction in dps. Therefore the comparison to Drone isn't fair and Tux is not an idiot, nor a hypocrite. It's just that the different weapon systems work differently. Edited: Anyone who wants to make my maths better is welcome to.
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.11.18 19:57:00 - [75] What do u really want? U want a ship that does the same or almost the same dps like any other turret Battlecruiser. That all combined with a weapon that everytime hits with full effect, doesn¦t rely on tracking and outranges almost every other weapon in it¦s class. And all with a selectable damage type of course. I tell you something: thats never gonna happen. You won¦t get your ship that does everything. Everything has a drawback. Missiles can give you big advantages over other weapons but lack a bit in damage. Thats nothing new at all. If you can¦t get used to it than train other weapons. If u want big damage but the other drawbacks than train for other weapons. Thats all what eve is about you can¦t have evrything at once. And even calling Tux an idiot won¦t help ya. It could even be more contra-productive than you think.
2SecondsTilMidnight	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:31:00 - [76] You can't say drake has selectable damage now. Saying that is just being stupid. If you say drake has selectable damage then take 25% of the damage off of the drake from the damage bonus.
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:45:00 - [77] Edited by: Keta Min on 18/11/2006 20:46:17 Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight You can't say drake has selectable damage now. Saying that is just being stupid. If you say drake has selectable damage then take 25% of the damage off of the drake from the damage bonus. by that logic turret races like amarr have no selectable range because if they want to shoot further the damage goes down! oh yea minmatar have no selectable damage either, i want all ammo to do the same dmg as EMP!
2SecondsTilMidnight	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:48:00 - [78] You can't use that analogy. We don't gain range by using non kinetic, we just lose damage. The different ammos of turrets is a balance between range and dps. The different damage of kinetic and non kinetic with drake is between +25% damage and +0% damage, all con, no pro.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:48:00 - [79] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox if that boosts the drake for you. Drake is fine. Kinetic damage is fine. Spouting ** like "kinetic damage sucks" is just bull** and you know it. Even so I bet Amarrians would love to be able to take a 25% damage drop and do explosive damage. The ship is fine and if you can't make it work its not the ship that sucks. Your an idiot and always have been. I dont think I have ever seen you think through changes to this game thoroughly even once. If the racial dmg bonuses are so good, why did you drop the racial dmg bonus from the drone users when they all whined like hell on the forums that you changed it within 24 hours. I called you and idiot then and I call you an idiot now. At worst you are a hypocrite. I could care less about this stupid kin bonus if you at least were consistant with it across all races, but hey since your not, I dont think anyone will think you know what your talking about. And calling someone an idiot somehow makes him change his mind? You're an idiot... hmm, you didn't change your mind, did you? Tbh from everything i've read so far from Tuxford he seems to have a better grasp of the game and how everything relates then you... why thermal drone bonus was considered bad: 1. it was a 10% per level bonus, at level 5 that would mean that any drone that wasn't doing thermal damage would be doing at least 33% less damage, not just 20% less damage(like it is with a 5% bonus). 2. I said "at least" in the first part because, unlike missiles, drones aren't identical in stats. Thermal drones do most damage, followed by kinetic(-10% from thermal), then explosive(-20%) and finnally EM(-30%). So implement a thermald drone damage bonus only and guess what? the difference becomes huge(from -40% for kinetic to a staggering -60% for em drones). Compared that to 3 missile types doing 20% less then one specific type... Crystal-Slave, that way? Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:55:00 - [80] Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight You can't use that analogy. We don't gain range by using non kinetic, we just lose damage. The different ammos of turrets is a balance between range and dps. The different damage of kinetic and non kinetic with drake is between +25% damage and +0% damage, all con, no pro. the pro is using the different dmg type, thus doing more dmg than with kinetic+25%dmg. genius.

2SecondsTilMidnight	Posted - 2006.11.18 21:54:00 - [81] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight You can't use that analogy. We don't gain range by using non kinetic, we just lose damage. The different ammos of turrets is a balance between range and dps. The different damage of kinetic and non kinetic with drake is between +25% damage and +0% damage, all con, no pro. the pro is using the different dmg type, thus doing more dmg than with kinetic+25%dmg. genius. Ok, so your agreeing with tux about drake being fine. And about the kinetic damage bonus counting and how the bonus should count for the damage. But your saying that by switching off of kinetic you can do more damage, which basically says that drake has no damage bonus. I'm getting sick of this argument. Basically I have to sport all T2 launchers and ammo(which is well over 60mil in weaponry alone) just to do subpar damage. This is my last post on the drake, seriously. Keta Min, you win. Your ignorance has won over. I have seen the light. I'm done with caldari BCs. Good luck caldari, I'm respeccing this character, maybe I'll go minmatar since I already have an amarr character.
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:03:00 - [82] Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: 2SecondsTilMidnight You can't use that analogy. We don't gain range by using non kinetic, we just lose damage. The different ammos of turrets is a balance between range and dps. The different damage of kinetic and non kinetic with drake is between +25% damage and +0% damage, all con, no pro. the pro is using the different dmg type, thus doing more dmg than with kinetic+25%dmg. genius. Ok, so your agreeing with tux about drake being fine. And about the kinetic damage bonus counting and how the bonus should count for the damage. But your saying that by switching off of kinetic you can do more damage, which basically says that drake has no damage bonus. I'm getting sick of this argument. Basically I have to sport all T2 launchers and ammo(which is well over 60mil in weaponry alone) just to do subpar damage. This is my last post on the drake, seriously. Keta Min, you win. Your ignorance has won over. I have seen the light. I'm done with caldari BCs. Good luck caldari, I'm respeccing this character, maybe I'll go minmatar since I already have an amarr character. you should get a clue before posting in balancing threads. what other reason do you have to switch dmg types than exploiting uneven resistances and doing more dmg? i guess you're one of those people who, when using a caracal/cerb/nighthawk, keep spamming kinetic missiles at a gallente t2 ship just because thats the dmg type you get a bonus for. protip: switching to another dmg type lets you do roughly 100% more dmg without any bonuses compared to kin+25% in that situation. i guess amarr or gallete gunships would really like to have that ability.. but as some other person said caldari can't select dmg type
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:06:00 - [83] Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 18/11/2006 22:07:44 My drake: 6x heavy assault launcher II, 1x med nos 1x AB II, 1x 20k scram, 2x large shield extender, 2x invuln field 2x BCS II, 2x PDS II 3x Core defence field extender DPS: 412 Shields: 25,048 Resists: all above 60% Near 100% immunity to NOS, no need to worry about transversal, hits out to 80 kilometers. Results? Pwnage. This ship is STILL overpowered but is closer to balanced now than it was before.
Falcun Gallente Asguard Security Service Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:13:00 - [84] Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox if that boosts the drake for you. Drake is fine. Kinetic damage is fine. Spouting ** like "kinetic damage sucks" is just bull** and you know it. Even so I bet Amarrians would love to be able to take a 25% damage drop and do explosive damage. The ship is fine and if you can't make it work its not the ship that sucks. The ROF bonus was so sexy though, it almost made me train up for Caldari But I digress, I believe that Tuxford is right about kinetic damage. It isn't a bad damage type. What is, and isn't a good damage type in combat is more philosophical than pure fact, as one cannot always accurately determine which damage type is the best to use. Sometimes what you can use is the best, and sometimes not. Kinetic damage bonus certainly doesn't kill it, makes it less sexy, but certainly doesn't kill it. --------------------------------------------------
kalath1032	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:58:00 - [85] Originally by: Falcun Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox if that boosts the drake for you. Drake is fine. Kinetic damage is fine. Spouting ** like "kinetic damage sucks" is just bull** and you know it. Even so I bet Amarrians would love to be able to take a 25% damage drop and do explosive damage. The ship is fine and if you can't make it work its not the ship that sucks. The ROF bonus was so sexy though, it almost made me train up for Caldari But I digress, I believe that Tuxford is right about kinetic damage. It isn't a bad damage type. What is, and isn't a good damage type in combat is more philosophical than pure fact, as one cannot always accurately determine which damage type is the best to use. Sometimes what you can use is the best, and sometimes not. Kinetic damage bonus certainly doesn't kill it, makes it less sexy, but certainly doesn't kill it. Erm if you dont fly caldari how can you comment just cos you like seeing caldari get nerfed with their rubish kinetic missile bonus when other races get damage bonsus for ALL damagae bnonuses ! alos if you see a caldari ship you know exactly wot its goin gto be using kinetic so you just tank kinetic! IT a rubish bonsues it might as well be a bonsus to cargo space
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:07:00 - [86] Originally by: kalath1032 Originally by: Falcun Originally by: Tuxford We can always remove some launcher slots from the ferox if that boosts the drake for you. Drake is fine. Kinetic damage is fine. Spouting ** like "kinetic damage sucks" is just bull and you know it. Even so I bet Amarrians would love to be able to take a 25% damage drop and do explosive damage. The ship is fine and if you can't make it work its not the ship that sucks. The ROF bonus was so sexy though, it almost made me train up for Caldari But I digress, I believe that Tuxford is right about kinetic damage. It isn't a bad damage type. What is, and isn't a good damage type in combat is more philosophical than pure fact, as one cannot always accurately determine which damage type is the best to use. Sometimes what you can use is the best, and sometimes not. Kinetic damage bonus certainly doesn't kill it, makes it less sexy, but certainly doesn't kill it. Erm if you dont fly caldari how can you comment just cos you like seeing caldari get nerfed with their rubish kinetic missile bonus when other races get damage bonsus for ALL damagae bnonuses ! alos if you see a caldari ship you know exactly wot its goin gto be using kinetic so you just tank kinetic! IT a rubish bonsues it might as well be a bonsus to cargo space Do you even play eve? What other races get damage bonuses to all types of damage? Not Gallente, Not Amarr! Minmatar do to a limited extent because they have different ammo types, but it's not a pure damage type as each type of ammo has multiple combinations of damage types and in conjunction with their other attributes (like total damage, range falloff etc) may or may not be the best ammo for a given situation. Because I said so...**
Zatch Gallente Inner Void	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:08:00 - [87] Edited by: Zatch on 18/11/2006 23:09:18 This isn't a reply to you murder, I agree with you. For the whiners: Alright, if you're going to complain about the kinetic damage bonus, complain about the Caracal too. Otherwise, shut the Hell up and fly a Ferox. It's CHEAPER. Stop whining about it. Tux needs a break and if you continue to **** him off, do you really expect him to cave in and make the changes you so selfishly desire? ----- Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc
kalath1032	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:09:00 - [88] explain the 5% bonus to hybrids that in theory is a bonus to all damage types doiung at least two at a time!
Zatch Gallente Inner Void	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:11:00 - [89] Hybrids can miss much more easily than missiles. You HIT more often with missiles. If you fit the right sized missiles for the fight, you will be hitting for full (-resistance) damage every time (assuming you're not a complete moron firing missiles when the enemy is way out of range, or they're MWDing, in which case rails wouldn't hit either.) Missiles hit more. Missiles cause damage more often. No need for a global damage boost. ----- Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:12:00 - [90] Just to be clear, the idea that removing missile hardpoints from the Ferox is at all a boost to the Drake is just laughably stupid, and not the kind of thing we should be seeing from a so-called professional developer. The comparison to the Ferox just highlights how bad the Drake is, when a dedicated missile boat is only marginally better than a RAIL ship at using missiles. Changes to the Ferox are NOT the solution. All that would accomplish is going from two medicore ships to one mediocre ship and one awful one. ============================= That said, the solution is simple: 7 launchers. 5% rate of fire. 10% missile velocity. Listen to your players for once. We DO NOT WANT another high-tank ship with pathetic damage and limited usefulness in PvP. We DO NOT WANT another "amazing mission running ship." NPCing and missions SUCK. Give us a **** T1 PvP ship other than the Raven. It's just stupid that Caldari characters can't even fly their own race's ships in PvP. What your players want is a high-damage battlecruiser that demands respect as soon as it enters the battle. Cut the tank if you have to, we didn't want 5% resists anyway. ================================= If we absolutely HAVE to settle for a crippled Drake, it needs +500 grid so it can actually use those high slots. NOS and rails take far too much grid for the Drake in its current form. Cutting the missile firepower is one thing, cutting the missile firepower and leaving nothing to replace it is just wrong. A ship that has to fly around with empty high slots is just wrong.



Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.