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[Revelations] The Complete Miner's Guide - ver. 2.0 [new & rewritten]

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Kharich	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:53:00 - [91] I'm pretty sure the mining formula is wrong... that or I'm interpreting it wrong, because I calculated it with all 3 skills at lv5 and it never even reaches 76% (assuming station equipment is at 75%) I did: 75 + (0.375 x (1 + [5 x 0.02]) x (1 + [5 x 0.04]) x (1 + [5 x 0.05])) = 75,61875 % and it gives even less (obviously) if it's 75 + (0.375 x ([1 + 5]x 0.02) x ([1 + 5] x 0.04) x ([1 + 5] x 0.05)) I bring this up because I'm in the market for a PoS refinery and was researching weather the yeild was better or not than a station's, and the document came up during a search.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:47:00 - [92] the equation is accurate only for stations, a POS gives a MAX refining yield of 75% Click on my sig to read it !
Gnord	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:37:00 - [93] Ok, I've searched your guide, the forums, the web in general, and I still cannot find any significant calculation, hypothesis, or explanation on how the volatility on crystals works. If it's out there, I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't find it. SO, Let's start with a veldspar mining crystal. Volatility: 0.1% Volatility Damage: 0.025 Crystals Damage: 1 I'm trying to figure out how long a particular crystal will last. Nobody I've talked to has a real definite answer, and certainly no kind of formula or calculation. Your guide has much more information on crystals than I've seen anywhere else, but of course it still lacks this one detail. Further explanation on this would be great, thanks. G'nord
Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:58:00 - [94] Originally by: Gnord ... Theres no real way to tell the Crystal could explode on your first cycle or on your 1000th cycle because it is chance based. Granted theres a gradual increase on the chance of it blowing up the more you use the crystal but the figure I get most of the time for my crystals (When I use them occasionally, I prefere strip Is) is anywhere between 23-30 hours worth of mining. -------------- Dang nabit
Orestes Umnon Minmatar Anqara Industries	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:17:00 - [95] Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2: "Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor." Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you?
Traderin Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:36:00 - [96] Edited by: Traderin on 24/01/2007 23:32:56 Huh?
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:38:00 - [97] Originally by: Orestes Umnon Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2: "Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor." Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you? Ohhh WTF? This was recently and silently changed because prior to writing the guide I checked and there were no mention of ice harvesters. This was added out of the blues. Again something that went unnotice because no one thought about writing it in patch notes Click on my sig to read it !
Alexi Johns	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:15:00 - [98] ok i typed up a nice post neat and structured and the eve forums eat it grr.. so pleasse excuse this post Halada, If you do another revision can you include the following. 1. A macro/formula to update the data in your figures with current market prices and to deal with market fluctuations. Including ore ice and gas. 2. More detail about ore volumes and how this relates to yield and isk vs time ... for those people who insist Mecoxit is the best thing to mine. 3. A Chapter on Gas harvesting Thanks in advance and for the great guide
Eewec Ourbyni Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:53:00 - [99] AS this seems to be the place to talk about all things mining... Anyone had any info on this little conundrum? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0701/soyeahumm.JPG? This is a sig... -- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio -- ... good, ain't it!
Taaketa Frist PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.26 11:10:00 - [100] Originally by: Eewec Ourbyni ... No idea. But as you are there you may be first to test out the skill and see if it works or not on those mods :p -------------- Dang nabit

Mr Xofar Xofar Mining -N- Trans	Posted - 2007.01.26 13:46:00 - [101] Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe. why do all this... [Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05) When all you need is this... *efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill 5) / 100** If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield. The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill. The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1] refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency received = refined - (refined * comission / 100) Mr Xofar's EVE Website Miner Timer Thread
0raven0	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Mr Xofar Edited by: Mr Xofar on 27/01/2007 08:51:17 Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe. why do all this... [Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05) When all you need is this... *efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill 5) / 100** If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield. The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill. The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1] refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency received = refined - (refined * comission / 100) EDIT: It should also be pointed out that [Station Equipment] should be represented as [Station Equipment/100] if you're going to use that formula. Then the entire result needs to be multiplied by 100, or just use [Station Equipment] + 37.5...etc. Then divide the result by 100 and the multiply the base mineral amount by that to get your yield. Either way, it's more work that you need to do to get an accurate refining efficiency for that station. I think part of the reason he shows that formula is for people that have low or no refining skills and want to see what they will get when the have a certain level of a skill. That way they can just fill in the blanks with whatever they want.
Internet Engineer	Posted - 2007.01.28 10:41:00 - [103] Very nice, thanks Halada
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.29 00:32:00 - [104] Very nice guide, however, the prices really need to be adjusted to the current market again. Crokite used to be at 10k/unit, but now it's closer to 6k/unit. Is it even still possible to reach the fabled 100m/h nowadays? Is it me, or did the opening of the new regions really eat into the miners profits? Mercoxit also plummeted badly, Morphite went from 15k to 5k basically. Mercoxit mining doesn't seem worth the hassle anymore. Although Ice Mining seems to have stayed roughly the same, some price fluctuations have occured there too. Dark Glitter is worth about 50% more. Strontium is at 5k now, and LO can go for 500 easily. Given that you don't update the sheet anymore, you could perhaps appoint someone to take it over to keep it up to date? (Not me, I'm only a part time miner! ) ------ In Carebear We Trust
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:57:00 - [105] An excellent guide, many thanks from many pilots. If I may add a couple of things not noted above already... A couple of Mining Drone Augmentor Rigs in a High Sec Hulk setup (for all those who would like cheaper Trit!) are very good and, to add to the Guide - they work well and stack (Section 8.1) In section 9 - there's currently no mention of the Ice Mining Gang Module - plus the confirmed fact that there are still many High Sec Ice Fields out there... But, still, an excellent piece of work.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:24:00 - [106] The ice mining actually is covered. As for the high sec ice fields, they are suppose to disappear over time. Click on my sig to read it !
0raven0 Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.01 07:06:00 - [107] None of the links in the guide are working for the newest update. None of the "jump to" links from the table of contents nor the links to websites like the refining calculator are actually links. I mean they are obviously supposed to be links but they are just normal text.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.02.01 09:38:00 - [108] Office 2007 flt. Ill try to fix it Click on my sig to read it !
Mattif2k3 Gallente Omega Armada	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:40:00 - [109] first of all, thx halada 4 the great guide. since i started to play eve i was focusing on mining. thus your guide became my bible. i love the formulas and the good consideration of possibilities. i got two chars. one miner (hulk) and one BC-foreman-donator and in 15 days both will hit the end of skilling in this direction. its real fun to mine. (even in empire ) i'm looking foreward to see a new version including the rokh, hulk ice mining and gas mining (!) greetz, Mattif2k3 & Chromaticus
Kilgaard	Posted - 2007.02.02 04:06:00 - [110] I'm a n00b that has been looking at mining to help my manufacturing ambitions. I've got a question regarding the merits of Miner II lasers. It seems to me that mining is a very CPU intensive operation, and the fitout you can get on many ships is limited by the CPU. If you have a ship that has lots of turret mounts (like a humble Catalyst destroyer) then the best fit for this ship is something that maximises your yield per CPU. Quick calcs: Miner I: 40m3/60tf = .66 Miner II: 60m3/80tf = .75 XeCl Drilling Beam I: 47m3/48tf = .98 Miner IIs also require Mining Iv, and have an activation requirement of 90 compared to the 10 needed for XeCl. Sure, if you have a ship that is turret limited, then the Miner IIs are better, but if you are CPU limited then the XeCls are significantly better. Using XeCl lasers, I can fit 5 on my Catalyst giving me a raw yield of 235m3. Using Miner IIs (which I can't yet as I don't have Mining IV) I would only get 180m3. This gives me a much better ship than a Bantom, and requires much less SPs than an Osprey. I will admit though that I'm having trouble working out the yield when you take into account the 20% bonus that the Osprey gets. This is probably enough so that I will skip the Osprey entirely and go directly to a Domi.

Luka Intarestum	Posted - 2007.02.05 20:22:00 - [111] Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag. Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then... M = Yield of a Miner. 4 Miner Fleet: 4M vs. 3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M 5 Miner Fleet: 5M vs. 4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.08 12:04:00 - [112] Originally by: Luka Intarestum Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag. Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then... M = Yield of a Miner. 4 Miner Fleet: 4M vs. 3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M 5 Miner Fleet: 5M vs. 4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in. I tend to do it anyway, even with a single barge available, because I have the Director skills and not the barge ones! The numbers, however, are also impacted if the Command ship carries the Tech II Mining Drones and 3 x rigs - that's an additional 415m3 per 'cycle' - and yes is fitted with tractor and salvager too. Where oh where is that Mining Drone Gang Module!
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:06:00 - [113] Quote: Mining Laser Upgrades +5% to yield per MLU Is that correct?. Quote: Skill at using mining upgrades. 5% reduction per skill level in CPU penalty of mining upgrade modules. Ummm ?
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:31:00 - [114] You just gave the description for the skill, not the module itself Click on my sig to read it !
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:34:00 - [115] Quote: Increases the yield on mining lasers, but causes them to use up more CPU. Doesn't say that it increases X per level tho.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.08 23:47:00 - [116] No, the skill decreases the cpu penalty, that's all. The module increases yield by 5%, regardless what level you have for the skill. What am I missing here? Click on my sig to read it !
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 23:54:00 - [117] AH, just me being stupid again lol. Thought it was a skill listing rather than the actual item. Forgive my stupid posts. Great guide :)
Fatalita Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.09 19:04:00 - [118] This thing helped me out a lot. I don't post much, but thanks!
Dangermouse DM Caldari M R Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 12/02/2007 20:07:13 FIGHT FOR MORALITY AND EQUALITY As of today I will no longer support CCP by taking time out of my lives and promote their game. The way they have handled the recent scandal, and the over usage of moderation disgusts my very essence. CCP has forever lost my respect. The guide will remain available as long as you deem it actual and good, perhaps one day I will keep doing it, for the players, but certainly not for a self-righteous company like CCP. I wish you good luck with your EVE career. I'm sorry to hear of your disillusionment with CCP and I have to say I agree with you one hundred percent but I'd also like to say that it was your guide that got me into the game. It was the first guide I looked at on anything, it got me started and introduced me to the depth and uniqueness of Eve. Thank you for that and please remember that ultimatly regardless of how it is run it is the participents that set the tone and morality of a mmorpg. I think the game was set up from the start with a loose definition of honour and fair play (I'm not saying that is a bad thing, quite the opposite) and prehaps in striving for that goal the developers have lost a little of thier own morality. Regardless we need those that are outraged by this to not give up as I for one would hate to play this game with a bunch of people that didn't care.
Tolomea Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:16:00 - [120] Your ice mining gang boost calculations are somewhat misleading. You claim that the gang bonuses increase you from 11 cycles an hour to 15, a bonus of 4 cycles. Which appears to be a bonus of 36% In reality it goes from 11.35 to 14.64 an increase of 3.29 Which is a fair bit closer to 3 than 4 and is exactly 29% the same as with ore mining.



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