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[Revelations] The Complete Miner's Guide - ver. 2.0 [new & rewritten]

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Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.01 07:50:00 - [1] 30.11.06 - Halada proudly presents - Enhanced and completely rewritten 48 pages PDF mining guide Download link (PDF) \| Mirror 1 right click -> save target as I am proud to announce the release of The Complete Miner's Guide, version 2.0. Now offered into a practical PDF format, this new enhanced and completely rewritten 48 pages mining guide is now available to all EVE players for free. After the last version's success, it was clear something more was needed. Ideas and rumors of a website were spread, but due to my very busy new student life, such a project will not be possible. Instead, to celebrate the arrival of Revelations, I wrote this whole new guide for you. This version addressed the issues of the last one, while adding some new content, all delivered into a new PDF presentation. The guide includes new sections, useful links, screenshots, tables and comparative charts to help you and your mining career. The guide's interactive table of contents will allow easy naviguation to find the information you need quickly. Plus, it's was written with a touch of humor I regret to announce that this will no doubt be my last guide as I must retire from EVE. As mentionned, a new student life has cut my playing time. I offer this as a departing gift. I am not permanently leaving, and I will try to make updates when the time allows it, but I will however not be avaialble to answer your questions. I have no doubt you guys will figure all your problems out right here with the same team spirit that gave this guide its true meaning and purpose. Keep living the carebear's dream and enjoy the guide! I wish you all the best in your mining career ! Halada The best mining guide in the galaxy
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.01 07:53:00 - [2] News & Updates 30.11.06 - Version 2.0 of guide released Version 2.0 was released to coincide with the new expansion Revelations. The guide was completely rewritten with more extensive coverage and updated to reflect new changes. Most important ones: - Pre-requisites for empire ôlow-endsö mining crystals lowered (section 5) - Mining Drone Augmentator Rigs (section 12) - Mining Foreman Mindlink fixed (section 6) - Squadron Command skill replaced by Warfare Link Specialist (section 11) - Bobbit alt gets pwned on the forum by Halada (section 14 and 16)
RotatoR Star Kingdom of Manticore Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.01 09:07:00 - [3] Good job Halada, 48 pages mining guide in PDF... It will surely help a lot in education of new mining talents eve-wide. And don`t forget, mining is more enviromentally friendly than huntin, plexin or even pvpin
Thaibog Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:43:00 - [4] I have to say this is a very impressive and complete guide to mining. Great Job Halada.
scabbsssjr Gallente M'8'S	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:22:00 - [5] Originally by: RotatoR Good job Halada, 48 pages mining guide in PDF... It will surely help a lot in education of new mining talents eve-wide. And don`t forget, mining is more enviromentally friendly than huntin, plexin or even pvpin well they read it? i bet we will still have the question of how do we load mining crystals :) greats man, been lookin forward to this. What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp.
Raijen Ar'Desh Gallente DragooN Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:38:00 - [6] Thanks alot for this guide. I was away from EVE for a year, and it was great to have this to reread and get in the swing of things.
Chruker	Posted - 2006.12.02 07:22:00 - [7] The direct download link doesn't always work if you right-click and choose save. My Internet Explorer wanted to download a .html file, which was because eve-files had a nagging commercial page before redirecting to the pdf. Other than that, I'm looking forward to reading this version. I found the old one very usefull, even for somebody only a couple of days old in this game.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:18:00 - [8] Fantastic, thank Halada and best of luck with your studies. I haven't read it all yet, but found in section 1.2 minerals you've missed the 8 Zydrine you get when you refine Jaspet. Great job! ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail
I1ceman	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:10:00 - [9] Brilliant !!
Shreddy Krueger Caldari The Splinter Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:13:00 - [10] Hal, brilliant guide (still reading it) but one thing I need to address: Why hasn't anyone run numbers for the mining Rokh? 8 turret points, 780 base CPU and a shield resist bonus would surely make it the best mining ship in eve if at least not on par with the Domi/Apoc.

Ranek Starscream Caldari Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:44:00 - [11] An amazing guide for anyone considering mining and people who already mine ----------------------------------------------- In the depth of space.....no one can hear you scream
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Shreddy Krueger Hal, brilliant guide (still reading it) but one thing I need to address: Why hasn't anyone run numbers for the mining Rokh? 8 turret points, 780 base CPU and a shield resist bonus would surely make it the best mining ship in eve if at least not on par with the Domi/Apoc. The guide was re-written prior to revelations hitting and was only re-edited before publishing. I hadn't checked the Rokh yet and it came only to my attention after publishing the guide. You are absolutely right though, the Rokh is without a single doubt the best battleship to use as a mining platform. Its monster CPU allows you to fit 8 miners, one more MLU than the Apoc and still fit a tank ! It will be added to the guide in a future update, for now however I don't think it would be worth it for me to publish a new version for that change, in fact, the Rokh will mine 5% more than the Apoc, that's it (one extra MLU), so comparative charts and tables can be used for the Rokh or the Apoc as well since the difference is quite minimal. For 0.0 of course the Rokh is the best choice as the Apoc cannot fit a tank when going on full mining setup. The best mining guide in the galaxy
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:35:00 - [13] Your Guide taught god knows how many people how to mine and how to make money through minning. I am sure your contributions will not be forgotten. ----------- Management and Leadership
Beatrice Belleza	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:06:00 - [14] Found an error. On page 16 it says the following: Quote: Using T2 miners, which has a 80m3/cycle base yield, you would get: 60 * 1.20 * 1.20=86.4m3/cycle(note the yield is not truncated nor rounded) T2 miners have a 60m3/cycle base yield. Not a big error, but still trying to do my part to help with the guide.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:02:00 - [15] Oups, thanks ! It's not a big mistake since I use the correct yield in the equation (wtf?) but will take note ! Thanks The best mining guide in the galaxy
Ace V	Posted - 2006.12.05 20:22:00 - [16] Edited by: Ace V on 05/12/2006 20:23:16 This morning after reading through the drones section(this has been my first time reading the guide, just DLed it the other day) I was curious about the whole harvester vs T2 mining drones debate so I figured it out and wrote it up in table in microsoft word which I can send you I you want. In the end it appears over the time of one hour if you are mining 5km and closer than harvesters are better, if its 5km-15km than T2 drones are better. The Drone Navigation skill also comes into play. Let me know if you want it, its not too complex and you can change it if you like. [Edit] This is Beatrice Belleza's(above) other character, posted with wrong one.
Cynoslaver	Posted - 2006.12.05 20:58:00 - [17] I'll toss out another option/correction. Halada only likes to include what he thinks is the only way to do things and passes off anything he thinks he knows as Gospel. If you swap out the active hardeners on the Hulk for Dread Passives, and get the shield compensation skill for those speciic times you can get up to 65% resist bonus per passive on your hulk without having to use cap draining actives at all and the fit is exactly the same. Makes tanking while keeping your upgrades muuuuuuuuuch much better.
Egil Kolsto	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:57:00 - [18] Did some initial math. ship 1 hulk with mining II drones - 1350 ore units/minute ship 2 Rokh with Tech II medium drones as defense - 830 ore units Pretty solid defense, the Hulk can even swap out the Mining drones for Tech II light since the bay fits 50 m3 Great guide Halada!
Cynoslaver	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:30:00 - [19] Yeah, the Rokh seems to be a great bship possibly better than apoc/domi for a normal tank. My only prob with battleships is you need cargo boost unless you like to stagger your lasers and empty every 30 seconds which is crazy annoying. So you could get 5 mining upgrades on rokh and shield tank, but might end up with like 3 and 2 cargo boosters?
Shreddy Krueger Caldari The Splinter Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Cynoslaver Yeah, the Rokh seems to be a great bship possibly better than apoc/domi for a normal tank. My only prob with battleships is you need cargo boost unless you like to stagger your lasers and empty every 30 seconds which is crazy annoying. So you could get 5 mining upgrades on rokh and shield tank, but might end up with like 3 and 2 cargo boosters? I personally would stagger the laser cycles and use the 3 extra low slots to fit 2 Co-proc II's and an extra Mining Upgrade. So what if you lose 15-30 seconds of mining time due to staggering, you end up mining 5% more ore and that'll pay itself off soon enough.

Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:10:00 - [21] Very nice Halada, loved your old guide and this one just rules. The calculations and explanations are very good. Good luck with your "student" life :)
Xiqiqi	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:39:00 - [22] Just to say thanks for the guide from a 2 day born. I went from completely clueless to knowing what to skill, what to mine and what to do with it. One question - excuse me if this is not the place - but I have found mining with the Bantam a rather dangerous occupation - would a Merlin be a good upgrade as soon as possible for a newbie - at least it would be possible to fit some weapons as well as the two mining lasers?
Beatrice Belleza School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Xiqiqi Just to say thanks for the guide from a 2 day born. I went from completely clueless to knowing what to skill, what to mine and what to do with it. One question - excuse me if this is not the place - but I have found mining with the Bantam a rather dangerous occupation - would a Merlin be a good upgrade as soon as possible for a newbie - at least it would be possible to fit some weapons as well as the two mining lasers? How has mining in a bantam become dangerous? Perhaps you shoulds mine in higher security space if the rats are too much for you? Try 1.0-.8
Egil Kolsto	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:04:00 - [24] Not sure what you mean about the Rokh and it lows? I could swear the link I looked at it had 8 highs 6 med 5 lows?
Cynoslaver	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:52:00 - [25] Yeah, use the mids to shield tank, 8 t2 miners in ups and whatever cpu/mining upgrades/cargo expandersyou might need in lows to boost it all isntead of like armour tanking in an apoc for example usin yer lows for that.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.12.07 01:20:00 - [26] Seems you might have missed this correction in my first post: Section 1.2 minerals, you've missed the 8 Zydrine you get when you refine Jaspet in the yield table. ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Dai007 on 07/12/2006 03:27:07 Edited by: Dai007 on 07/12/2006 03:19:38 Section 6 - Acheiving Perfection Quote: HX-1 Highwall (slot 10) + 5% to yield (requires Cybernetic V) Shouldnt that be HX-2 Highwall, since the HX-1 gives 3%
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 09:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Rumbaar Seems you might have missed this correction in my first post: Section 1.2 minerals, you've missed the 8 Zydrine you get when you refine Jaspet in the yield table. It appears in the erratum already. The best mining guide in the galaxy
Orrin Danestarr	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:36:00 - [29] A wonderful and informative guide. Hats off, my good man. "Imagination is the key that unlocks the door." - ME
Cynoslaver	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:24:00 - [30] Turns out the em/thermic etc specific compensation gives a 5% bonus not to your resists but 5% "of" the resists of the specific hardener. In the case of a gurrista, it's about 1-1.5% per point. Not as good as the actives then, but requires no cap, and as lon gas the tank holds etc. (for hulks)

Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.07 22:15:00 - [31] Ive extensively tested the Hulks with dozens of setup, no passive setups will be good enought to tank 0.0 rats alone if this is what you are after. The best mining guide in the galaxy
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2006.12.08 00:08:00 - [32] Going to test out a hulk setup soon enough once i buy the modules / raise the cash :). Gistii A Type Small Shield Booster 2 x Dread Guritas Kinetic Deflection Field Aint testing it yet tho :)
Beatrice Belleza School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 01:09:00 - [33] So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5. Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide.
Rustayne Talrus	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:28:00 - [34] Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed?
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Beatrice Belleza So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5. Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide. It is possible the Harvesters will in fact mine slightly more than T2 mining drones, but the margin will be I am sure incredibly small. Drones are very vulnerable, any CTD and the rats will ****your drones, and seeing as Harvesters prices only keep rising for some reason, they are now approaching the 20mil per drone mark and this is scary to think they cost as much as a carrier fighter ! Compared to the 500k retail price of T2 Mining drones, I would not suggest using harvesters ever. Drone naviguation will also affect T2 Mining drones, so the only factor which can be reduced is distance. Post a link to your excel sheet here, hopefully users can have a look at it and when I update my guide I will consider putting it int he guide for the sake of completing the information, I still stand behind my POV that risking 100mil of drones for the very small benefit you get out of them vs T2 Mining drones is not worth it. The best mining guide in the galaxy*
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.08 10:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Rustayne Talrus Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed? They weren't, I've seen them a few times. Keep looking or browse the sell orders forum, I've seen dozens of michi implants auctions. The best mining guide in the galaxy
Cynoslaver	Posted - 2006.12.08 17:28:00 - [37] 2 quick things 1: Harvester drones are up to 20 mil because they are a vanishing item. (can't seem to find the right word useage) What I mean is you can't 'get them' new any more. the only one's that exist are theones currently in game. So every time 1 dies, that's 1 lest in circulation. Given all the math and details and nav skill and bla bla bla though, they're a complete waste of money, and generally people are buying them that aren't doing their homework. 2. As far as hulk tanks. Actually, you can tank just fine with the passive setup I suggested. With the copmensation skills you do end u pwith slightly less resist on your specific resist types but you don't have to go out and tank triple bs spawns. What I'm generally doing is (on the rare occasion I want to tank with hulk which i normally don't) is just going out, finding medium to small spawns and those tank ok. I wouldn't attempt a triple bs with passives, though not having the extra cap drain from the 2 dread gurrista actives (using dread gurrista passives) you don't have to get your cap skills to 5 with this. bla, wordy tonight, in short, it'll tank fine, I just wouldn't recommend the 1 mil plus spawns. This is really useful if yer doing the t2 crystal route and staggering, and cutting it real close.
Beatrice Belleza School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.08 20:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Halada Originally by: Beatrice Belleza So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5. Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide. It is possible the Harvesters will in fact mine slightly more than T2 mining drones, but the margin will be I am sure incredibly small. Drones are very vulnerable, any CTD and the rats will *****your drones, and seeing as Harvesters prices only keep rising for some reason, they are now approaching the 20mil per drone mark and this is scary to think they cost as much as a carrier fighter ! Compared to the 500k retail price of T2 Mining drones, I would not suggest using harvesters ever. Drone naviguation will also affect T2 Mining drones, so the only factor which can be reduced is distance. Post a link to your excel sheet here, hopefully users can have a look at it and when I update my guide I will consider putting it int he guide for the sake of completing the information, I still stand behind my POV that risking 100mil of drones for the very small benefit you get out of them vs T2 Mining drones is not worth it. Yes I agree after doing my research, not only would you have to be within a few Kms of the roid for the benefit to be big enough with harvys, but they also cost a ton. In my opinion its not worth it, and thats why my file lists how much m3 you will mine(and cycles) per hour for T2 mining drones and Harvys, you can simply disregard harvys if you want. Right click save Drone Mining (microsoftword)
Karodnotos Caldari Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.12.09 01:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Rustayne Talrus Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed? Ist a bug. Look here: Linkage ___________________ Eve Wiki \| dont forget
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.10 22:30:00 - [40] Harvesters have been long gone as loots, they were steady at 9mil for many months, they are really rocketing now, can't understand why really. What I meant with passive resists won't tank I mean the biggest spawns. I'm quite sure it'll tank the smaller ones, but the active ones will tank any spawn you come across, which is quite reassuring ! The best mining guide in the galaxy

Aira Phlux	Posted - 2006.12.11 10:43:00 - [41] Edited by: Aira Phlux on 11/12/2006 10:45:14 Rokh setup ... I see a lot of people talking about fitting 4 mining laser upgrades AND a tank. I'm stuggling to see how that is possible (refering to CPU). I have Electronics 5 and Mining upgrades 2 however I can only manage a passive resistance tank with 3 MLU and 2 Co-Pro I. If I fit a 4th MLU I can't have anything in the midslots except a Survey Scanner. I suppose I will be advised to fit a Co-Pro II and train Mining Upgrades to lvl 4 or 5 but I'm not convinced that will allow me an extra 200(ish) CPU for a tank. Is there anyone out there in the same boat, or who has cra.cked this puzzle? EDIT: Can't believe cra.ck is banned
clawz 2	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:56:00 - [42] WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it? all my mining is done in Empire
Calieron	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:31:00 - [43] Halada, You, sir, are definately the master miner . I just wanted to leave my "Thank You" for this wonderful guide. You have definitely put me into a position of getting effective as a miner too. Thanks for the wonderful work and... keep it up !
Hadon Arelus	Posted - 2006.12.12 22:29:00 - [44] WOW - very nice - so much in depth knowledge - very appreciated. =) I do have one question for you - on the DOMI setup with 5 MLU's and 2 PDU II's this creates such a yield where my cargo is not enough room to hold 110x6=660+ and with the domi only 600m3 cargo. Do you stagger your miners and empty every 30 secs?
Xorena Blastaphart Caldari Signum Malus	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:02:00 - [45] Edited by: Xorena Blastaphart on 13/12/2006 08:04:13 Concerning T2 Mining Crystals, even with my Hulk and more or less max'ed out skills I don't see the payback on investment based upon current mineral prices in comparison to the cost of crystals, crystal volatility and damage etc. Based upon my current skills I'm only harvesting about 300 (total) ore units per cycle, and based upon current mineral prices prices its just about breakeven, if that, when the cost of the crystals are taken into account. Am I overlooking something, or is the only benefit a savings on time alone ? I'm sticking to building my own T1 crystals .. unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious. Great guide BTW, I've kept referring back to it time and time again as my mining skills have progressed.
Atherus Shadowstorm Caldari Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:05:00 - [46] Thought Id my thanks and you rule to the others been using this guide since i first started in the game 4 months ago, and its a grat help especially for the new player. A few minor questions that arent really covered in the guide. 1. What would you Reccomend training first, A covetor or Tech 2 strips/crystals? Nb currently flying a retriever with tech 1 strips. 2. Considering how much tech 2 crystals cost right now are they really worth the extra cost for the amount extra they mine per cycle.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.14 09:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Xorena Blastaphart Edited by: Xorena Blastaphart on 13/12/2006 08:04:13 Concerning T2 Mining Crystals, even with my Hulk and more or less max'ed out skills I don't see the payback on investment based upon current mineral prices in comparison to the cost of crystals, crystal volatility and damage etc. Based upon my current skills I'm only harvesting about 300 (total) ore units per cycle, and based upon current mineral prices prices its just about breakeven, if that, when the cost of the crystals are taken into account. Am I overlooking something, or is the only benefit a savings on time alone ? I'm sticking to building my own T1 crystals .. unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious. Great guide BTW, I've kept referring back to it time and time again as my mining skills have progressed. What are you mining? Even T2 Crokite crystals as expensive as they are should offer a nice return. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Adaris Gallente Impact Inc. Serenus Letum	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:41:00 - [48] I must say that of all the things I have read through while making expansive jumps through Empire afk, (72 today), this Guide, or should I say, 'Mining Bible', ranks so far above them all. This is in every way, the best, and most comprehensive Bible to Mining out there to date, Halada you are quite exceptional to have published it. My thanks for that. And the thanks for those who will also appreciate it as much as I do. My favorite piece? Well it has to be this: Quote: I gotta say, now that I can make just around 100mil ISK per hour, I donÆt care so much when IÆm called a carebear. Being a carebear rules, mÆokay? Much more so than the cool PvPers who do 20mil/hour ratting in 0.0 on a good dayà perspective is everything ! p.s. I've taken the liberty of adding you to my address book mate, and if I ever spot you in local you shall recieve a 'Heya' from me. :) Keep it coming....
clawz 2	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:49:00 - [49] WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it?
Elrinarie Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:26:00 - [50] hey.. I was looking for just such a guide as I am building a calculator for my corp... Thing is. I was testing some of this out and it seems I have one thing that appears to be different than the pdf. the PDF states that EVE truncates the values when reprocessing, but in my testing I got a round up for anything above .5 and a round down for anything below. in my test at least with just refining at rank 4. I had a 90.5% efficiency refining 333 scrodite it should yeild trit 833 pyer 416 833 * .905 = 753.865 and sure enough when I go to salvage only 79 ore is being taken away from my yield. they might have changed this since writing the pdf.. just want to make sure I'm not the only one getting these results :)

Cyber Wolf	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:29:00 - [51] Edited by: Cyber Wolf on 16/12/2006 15:32:18 I'm in need of someone good with the numbers to help me. I currently have mining foreman 5, mining director 5, warfare link specialist 3, and wing command 1. I also have the mining foreman mindlink plugged in. When mining I use a hulk fitted with tech 2 strip miners and 5 tech 2 mining drones. My question is this, how many barges/exhumers would be needed to justify me not mining with a group in the hulk and using a bc with the mining foreman link? I'd really be greatfull if someone could help me with this.
Dagle Minmatar Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency	Posted - 2006.12.17 04:58:00 - [52] Originally by: clawz 2 WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it? all my mining is done in Empire MDCM2's are for mining mercoxit. They aren't useful for veld or any common minerals you will find in empire.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:22:00 - [53] MDCM2 can be used to mine everything, so with the proper crystals itll outmine the miner II of course. The math isnt hard to do. MDCSM2 are the ones used exclusively for Mercoxit The best mining guide in the galaxy
Shanur	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:42:00 - [54] At the risk of getting scorched, one thing i really missed in the guide was an explanation why the Bantam is better than the Navitas (which as far as i can see have roughly the same stats), or an overview of how effective the Amarr and Gallente drone miner cruisers are compared to their turret mining counterparts and why the Vexxor is therefore a worse choice than an Osprey. I can understand why Minmatar ships are inferior in this regard as they just don't have the CPU of the Caldari ships so can fit fewer MLU's, but how does a ship with increased drone yield compare to one with increased mining laser yield? I'd especially think a comparisson would be included as you'd have to learn Gallente cruisers to get to the Gallente battleship skill needed to use the Dominix.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:57:00 - [55] There is no reason you should get scorched for asking a question or proposing an improvement :) Besides your argument is valid. I guess I went with Bantam -> Osprey since they are really good ships, and the Badger is also a better industrial than the early Iterons imho, but if you want feel free to write a new section detailing the differences and I'll add it to the guide at the next version :) The best mining guide in the galaxy
clawz 2	Posted - 2006.12.20 00:52:00 - [56] Quote: The math isnt hard to do. sure unless your 50 and computer challenged to start with anyway Halada thaks for the time you have dediccated to this guide thing. i have used a DOmi for mining in 0.0 space to super success. I am now mining in empire using a apoc with 8 miner IIs and T2 mining drones. in all fairness i did try to figure the math thing out, just aint sure if i was correct or not again thanks for you work in this
D'kar Minmatar Dark Times Tech.	Posted - 2006.12.20 20:08:00 - [57] Halada, I just want to say thank you for this fantastic guide to mining! You've definately put a great deal of thought into putting it together and it shows! It's also a great deal of fun to read, you're a funny guy... I almost fell out of my chair when I read the part about mining in a capital ship... ROFL! YOU DA MAN! _______________ Dark Times Tech
Charok Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.20 22:08:00 - [58] Has anyone thought of what rigs to put on a hulk... I really dont like any of the ones I have seen yet and I'm hoping someone finds a rare rig drop that helps mining ammount to put on the market. Hey what's this box for?
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2006.12.20 23:19:00 - [59] Edited by: Soulita on 20/12/2006 23:39:46 Edited by: Soulita on 20/12/2006 23:29:53 Halada, awesome guide! One small but important piece of info left out in the rigs section (page 40) you say there: "You can always remove it(the rig),...,however you will loose it..." The only way to get rid of a rig is repackaging the ship. Original message you get when trying to pull a rig off your ship: "You cannot unfit an upgrade. Once installed the ship can only be rid of them by being reprocessed or repackaged. Either of these actions which will result in the destruction of the upgrade." This is important to know, since instead of 'just' loosing the rig you want to remove, you will also: a) loose the insurance on your ship when repackaging (and you know platinum insurance can cost a lot of iskies depending on ship type). b) loose all other rigs that you have fitted to the ship. Again, awesome guide, and thanks for the work you put into this one.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:06:00 - [60] Still a great guide. I just wanted to point out in section 4 you don't really compare apples with apple in regards to how low the Retriever truly is compared to a Battleship for yield and protection. With the battleships you use the skill levels Mining 4 and Astro 4 but for the Retriever you use Mining 5 and Astro 5 (which is around a 19D+ skill to get too) for the yield, also you use Barge 4 instead of 3 for the calculations. So the true comparison for a person as about that level of training in mining would be Mining 4, Astro 4 and Barge 3. 540 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.09 * 1.05 = 889.96 m3/cycle Omber 889.96/0.6 = 1483 to 59,320 (Barge 4 only give additional 1640 units) unit of Omber per hour which is way below the Dominix's 65,880 units per hour. So the Retriever is actually the least yield of the bunch in the section. Or if you want to look at it another way and take the Dominix with the same stat as used for the Retriever in the guide it would gives you 71,640 Omber units per hour. Once again far above the Retriever. The only benefit of a Retriever is it's price, and if needed Ice Harvesters. But it fall way behind the Dominix and Apoc for yield (in apples for apples comparison) and tankability. ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail

Ikkajo Minmatar Sirius Cybernetics Corpotation	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:50:00 - [61] Originally by: Dagle MDCM2's are for mining mercoxit. They aren't useful for veld or any common minerals you will find in empire. Actually, they're about 50% better than a standard Miner II if you fit a T2 crystal to them. The only other general comment is that at the bottom of page 5 you state that Ice cannot be found in high-sec. This is wrong. There's at least 4 fields within 3 jumps of Pator that are all in 0.7 or higher - Add another field for Emolganlan, which is 0.5.
Xy Kintar	Posted - 2006.12.25 04:52:00 - [62] Halada, whats your take on the current mineral market situation?
Damor Tahr	Posted - 2006.12.26 11:14:00 - [63] I just want to say that your guide is very good. I'm a bit new to mining but after looking at your guide it makes me want to invest in mining now. Thanks again Halada.
Alha Qmar Caldari Xenon Logistics	Posted - 2006.12.26 18:11:00 - [64] Very nice guide, keep up the good work.
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.29 17:17:00 - [65] ive used quickfit to see what i can get in a rokh and i can get 8 miners 3 mining laser upgrades and 3 large extender 2s and have about 17 cpu left can some get full rack of mining upgrades in bottom? i can get 4 in with a co-pro2 nothing in mids except survey scanner :)
Lars Intarestum	Posted - 2006.12.30 01:38:00 - [66] Quote: I'm in need of someone good with the numbers to help me. I currently have mining foreman 5, mining director 5, warfare link specialist 3, and wing command 1. I also have the mining foreman mindlink plugged in. When mining I use a hulk fitted with tech 2 strip miners and 5 tech 2 mining drones. My question is this, how many barges/exhumers would be needed to justify me not mining with a group in the hulk and using a bc with the mining foreman link? I'd really be greatfull if someone could help me with this. ...Alot? I would like to know the answer to this as well. However, that command ship can be your Anti-Rat protection, mobile repair station and still mine with those 5 drones.
Malibu Stacey Gallente Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.30 02:46:00 - [67] Hi, my mining expertise only extends to hauling for my corpmates & using an Osprey to mine the Omber in missions like Human Cattle 5 of 5. I've recently moved up to level 3 & 4 missions so I'm seeing more free Ore just lying around & have been considering training for a barge to cut down on the time it will take me to clear the 'roids in a mission spawn out. Having read your guide (good work btw) I think something is very wrong with your Retriever fittings. A Retriever has 125 CPU/156.25 with Electronics 5. Strip Miner I's need 60 CPU (12000-99.5%), with a Mining Upgrade I they go up to 66 CPU (I think, not sure how this is calculated so could be wrong). Mining Upgrade I needs 30 CPU. So 2 Strip Miner I's & a Mining Upgrade I need a total of 162 CPU if my calculations are correct. This is a little bit more than you can get out of a Retriever even with Electronics 5 and would therefore have to use the other low slot for a Co-Processor I to give a total of 167.1875 CPU (156.25+7% again not sure if this is how it is calculated so could be wrong). Funnily enough this would leave you just enough to fit a Survey Scanner I in your mid slot. Now I'm not exactly sure how higher levels of Mining Upgrades affects the CPU increase but fitting just the low & mid slots on the recommended setup (Survey Scanner, Mining Upgrade I & PDU 2) would take 50 CPU assuming you have Energy Grid Upgrades at level 5. Therefore you'd have to make your Strip Miner I's use less CPU than they do without a Mining Upgrade I as this would leave you only 106.25 CPU to fit them both which to me doesn't make much sense. I think you should add a section on mining in missions to your guide as there is some very nice easy ore to be had if one decides to go down that route. --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Ky Vatta Caldari Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce	Posted - 2007.01.01 01:15:00 - [68] Not sure how up to date this is, but it may help the Ice-miners out there: Ice Fields Locations As you can see, there are fields in Hi-sec too
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:22:00 - [69] Okay, just for ***s and giggles, here's the actual numbers of a dedicated mining carrier with t2 mining drones: 25 ore units times 14 mining drones plus: (drone link) (drone command link = 2%) (mining dir V = 5) * (warfare link spec V = 1.5) * (mining foreman mindlink = 1.5) == 122.5% plus: (skills) (mining drone operation V = 1.25) * (drone interfacing V = 2) == 250% plus: (rigs) (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor I = 1.1) == 145.475% 25 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 111.379296875 That's 6 units of highend/cycle, or 84 for all 14 drones. Using your number for Crok, that's 55,144,555.20 isk/hr. And, obviously, you have a built-in tank. Now let's try it with harvies, despite the fact that you say they're so useless: 30 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 133.65515625 That's 8 units of highend/cycle, or 112 for all 14 drones. Again, using Crok, that's 73,526,073.60 isk/hr. In other words, after 12 hours, you've more than paid off your harvester drones at 15m apiece. As an aside, a mothership has room for 5 drone links plus the command link. With those equipped, a mommy with 25 Harvester drones mines 131,296,560 isk/hr. Oh, and one last note--there's nothing quite like having a fleet of Hulks out, seeing an enemy enter Local, and by the time they've scanned down your Hulks and are warping to the belt, your Hulks have swapped out for the HACs they keep in your ship bay. --P
Lar Min	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:51:00 - [70] I believe I found another error in the guide. Under the Crystal section where required skills are for each type of crystal. It seems they split up the ores into three parts. High sec skills are correct but for Low sec you only need RE 4 and Metalurgy 3 for Dark Ocher, Gneiss, Hedbergite, and Spodumain. The 0.0 still require RE5 and Metalurgy 4.

Doffeh	Posted - 2007.01.07 04:01:00 - [71] Now I'm 4m SPs, having played eve for a tad, never thought much of mining, I felt that killing stuff was much fancier, then a little earlier today , I did some stupidity mining of kernite, which I sold completely unprocessed. I was flying a scythe with basic miner 1's... And still it seem very profitable. Not because of the ISKs, but because I can make profit without, paying too much attention (so I can play my bass while I play eve yay.) Anyway, I've already decided to get an alt account, but after reading this great guide, I felt like using that alt for mining more than anything else! Especially with revelations giving you a kickstart now (and how my current character only got mining 1.) Now the guide or the 18 pages of posts in the previous thread, may have answered my question already, but please don't blame me, it is late at night and it was a lot of reading. I want my to be miner to also learn as effective as possible, and I know this is relevant for others as well, since many use dedicated alts to mine. So when creating a character, what are the ideal atributes to go for? My mind tells me "INTELLIGENCE" all the way, but, I spoke to a few friends, and they told me that barges 5, was a far worse skill to train than astrology and such... So really, what is really, the ideal starting miner now? Or any suggestions as for what direction to go anyway? Thanks in advance. Again, a great guide.
Manoxtra Gallente Helios Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.07 11:48:00 - [72] I would advice you to use this link, i used it too :)) Career of new chars
Graduran Anguirill	Posted - 2007.01.07 14:54:00 - [73] dang nice guide man, thanks a ton for taking the time and creating it and maintaining it. ~~o~~ Shike from DAoC ~~o~~
Doffeh	Posted - 2007.01.07 15:37:00 - [74] Originally by: Manoxtra I would advice you to use this link, i used it too :)) Career of new chars That helped a lot, thanks!
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.08 11:08:00 - [75] Wow! You mentioned you're a medical student. If you put in this much effort to write a 48 page mining guide and analysis, I can only imagine what your doctrate will be like. The origional "hate monger"
Petrothian Tong	Posted - 2007.01.09 05:13:00 - [76] feels stupid is it possible for someone to post the guide as not a pdf file? it keep saying its damaged when I downloaded it...
At'lana Tir'freven Caldari Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.01.09 23:57:00 - [77] Edited by: At''lana Tir''freven on 09/01/2007 23:54:40 Three things that are a tad misrepresented. One Mining crystal's increased cap usage - for 0.0 mining with t2 crystals thats a whooping 40 more energy per laser per cycle. That in itself is a cap drainer in which the caldari (abit blessed with every other aspect of eve) ships have not alot of. Now that doesnt sound like much ... until you fit 8 of them ... and must tank as well. Two Apoc tanking setup - The absolute worst damage to tank is multispec damage mainly from NPC's that do both EM & Thermal. Having to tank 2 different types is a pain for any 0.0 miner. Now lets look at MY Apoc tanking setup. Hi slots are dedicated to my beatiful MDCM2's fitted in every hi slot. My mids are fitted with eclytic cap recharchers although even t1 cap rechargers work fine and are cheap as hell. For having amarr battleship 4 i get a 20% increased cap ( one thing amarr ships are perfect at ) My low slots are a bit different story from yours. I arm my apoc with 3x CPU II's (only way to fit 8 MDCM2's) a t2 large armor rep (fairly cheap) an active dark blood EM armor hardener, any passive named (n-type works best) thermal armor hardener, and my last slot is for my cap power relay which docks shield boosting (not like i care for shields anyway) but gives me 20% ro my cap recharge rate. As of this not i also fitted an EM and Therm armor rig to my ship. My EM and Thermal tank is over 80% (actual in game figures) and i barely need to run my t2 large armor rep much unless i am tanking a 3x 1m+ isk BS spawn plus cruisers. Also with 75m3 of drone space i can fit 10 warrior II drones and have 5 mining II drones. No interceptor or assault frigate will tangle with a tank that heavy regardless of teh spawn AND 10 warrior II's. In short fitted this way you get a tank that can tank damn near anything but officer spawns and is MUCH cheaper and readily produced in 0.0 space. Three Longer cycle vs Shorter cycle - It wasnt really hinted on as to WHY a longer cycle is better than a shorter one. Take the miner II vs a strip miner ... ASSUME NO FURTHER SKILLS OR MODS ... ie barge skills etc. your miner II will chew up rock at 60m3 per minute which in top end ore equals 3.75 and bless ccp that they dont give you 3/4 or a unit of ore or the market would become that much more complex. as a base 3 miner II's (assuming base ore mining rates) equals 1 strip miner (60m3 x 3 lasers x 3 cycles) equals what 1 strip miner mines in 3 minutes. Now look at the results ... 1 strip miner will mine 540 m3 of ore (33 units of top end ore) every 3 minutes whereas 3 miner II's only net 27. This is not based on skills this is based on the simple fact that larger cycles round 1 ore unit every cycle and shorter cycle lasers round more for the same elapsed time. So in short ... Fit those MDCM2's that you always wanted ... snuggle in close to those MSM's that you sleep with at night ... because they will ... always ... net ... more. And more is better ... more Iskies ... more Kills ... more Corp ***** lovin. PS: It is to note that you should never ... ever ... mine spodumain nor plagioclause ... there is always something more useful to mine that will make you more money ... Also do not go to 0.0 space to mine gniess or dark ocrhe ... you are in 0.0 space for a reason ... dont be a moron and gimp your profits. Thank you that is all ...
Alaris Nightshadow Caldari Rogue Arrow Galactic Empire O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.13 08:14:00 - [78] Originally by: Pilk Okay, just for ***s and giggles, here's the actual numbers of a dedicated mining carrier with t2 mining drones: 25 ore units times 14 mining drones plus: (drone link) (drone command link = 2%) (mining dir V = 5) * (warfare link spec V = 1.5) * (mining foreman mindlink = 1.5) == 122.5% plus: (skills) (mining drone operation V = 1.25) * (drone interfacing V = 2) == 250% plus: (rigs) (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor I = 1.1) == 145.475% 25 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 111.379296875 That's 6 units of highend/cycle, or 84 for all 14 drones. Using your number for Crok, that's 55,144,555.20 isk/hr. And, obviously, you have a built-in tank. Now let's try it with harvies, despite the fact that you say they're so useless: 30 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 133.65515625 That's 8 units of highend/cycle, or 112 for all 14 drones. Again, using Crok, that's 73,526,073.60 isk/hr. In other words, after 12 hours, you've more than paid off your harvester drones at 15m apiece. As an aside, a mothership has room for 5 drone links plus the command link. With those equipped, a mommy with 25 Harvester drones mines 131,296,560 isk/hr. Oh, and one last note--there's nothing quite like having a fleet of Hulks out, seeing an enemy enter Local, and by the time they've scanned down your Hulks and are warping to the belt, your Hulks have swapped out for the HACs they keep in your ship bay. --P Your forgetting that Harvester Drones travel twice as slow as T2 drones, so unless you are right on top of the roids the T2 will haul in more per hour, even if the haul per cycle is better on a Harvester. Harvesters suck, period. ----------------------------------------------- "We fear that which we cannot see... we respect that which we cannot see... thus the blade will be wielded."
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 09:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow Your You're. Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow forgetting that Harvester Drones travel twice as slow This has no mathematical meaning. "Half the speed," perhaps? Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow as T2 drones, so unless you are right on top of the roids And why wouldn't you be? Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow the T2 will haul in more per hour, even if the haul per cycle is better on a Harvester. When the haul per cycle is 33% better than t2 drones (8 ore units instead of 6), unless those Harvesters are spending 20 EXTRA seconds per cycle coming back from and going to the rock as compared to their t2 brethren, Harvies still win the day. Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow Harvesters suck, period. How kind of you to blindly follow the dictates of the semi-informed guide writer rather than look at the math and realize you're wrong. That's okay; I'm sure you'd also tell me that Neutron blasters rock, even when you're fitting 2 damage mods and a reactor control, and I'm using Ions with 3 damage mods. Or any number of similarly cockamamie stances based, again, not on a careful review of the evidence but instead on some half-baked "gut feeling" or on an overblown, self-righteous, "thread-pwning!!11!!1!" mining guide writer. If you'd like to dispute my math, dispute my math. But don't make stupid assertions without the intestinal fortitude or the intellectual capability to back them up. --P P.S. Preemptively, to the mods--"cockamamie", n. Something ridiculous, incredible, or implausible. From the French "dTcalcomanie". Not circumventing the profanity filter, just using a proper word in the proper context that happens to contain those letters in that order.
Shojjin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.14 17:20:00 - [80] I despise smartasses... The guide's writer is far from mis-informed or half-informed, when you come up with something better than I'll listen to you, until then, go waltz elsewhere. The guide provides all the facts you need to realize harvesters suck, especially for their price, and in all my hours of mining, and the fact the Hulk is slow, I have rarely seen a session where I could always be right on top of a roid. Add on that the numerous CTD that happen, the rats eat your 100mil in drones in about 1 minute. So you then need 1-3 hours of mining just to recup the cost. You're a smartass just for having corrected his grammar, like you know so much better. Call CONCORD, z0mg, spelling mistakes were made!

Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:18:00 - [81] erm It really isn't that hard to get on top of a roid. 0.0 belt, roids at 350km each way, just warp to one of them and then warp to the roid you wanna mine. You'll land right on top of it, and harvies are ftw with no travel time :) ----- Originally by: wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
Shojjin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:33:00 - [82] Even if you could always be right on top of a roid, all the extra managing aside, can you justify paying 40 times more per harvesters than a T2 costs versus the small reward ? Plus if you lose them (which is more than likely, if you are jumped on by pirates or CTD), the small ammount of extra ISK you made using them will go into repaying for a new set. They suck
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 19:30:00 - [83] Originally by: Shojjin I despise smartasses... I am one. I also despise them. Go figure, eh? Originally by: Shojjin The guide's writer is far from mis-informed or half-informed, when you come up with something better than I'll listen to you, until then, go waltz elsewhere. Go back and read some of his first drafts. He's actually startlingly misinformed, personally. It's just that he posted enough ridiculous assertions in an easy-to-read format that people who ACTUALLY knew what they were talking about went through and corrected all his mistakes. Thus the new thread for new versions of the guide--his goal is to appear infallible. "The best mining guide in the galaxy".... I am not an industrialist by any stretch of the imagination; I have no interest in writing a better guide. But I take issue with assertions that it's stupid to mine in capitals and that harvesters are worthless, simply because those assertions are provably, mathematically, false. Originally by: Shojjin The guide provides all the facts you need to realize harvesters suck, especially for their price, and in all my hours of mining, and the fact the Hulk is slow, I have rarely seen a session where I could always be right on top of a roid. I'm not in a Hulk. Read the post to which he originally replied. Obviously, you just saw "Harvesters" without "suck" next to it, and smashed keys until a sufficiently vitriolic, half-assed post had been completed to remedy this apparent oversight. Originally by: Shojjin Add on that the numerous CTD that happen, the rats eat your 100mil in drones in about 1 minute. So you then need 1-3 hours of mining just to recup the cost. If you CTD every 1-3 hours, it's time to seriously re-examine your computer's setup. Originally by: Shojjin jumped on by pirate Unlike being in a Hulk, when you're in a carrier, you wave to the pirates in Local and tell them which belt you're in. That way the Hulks you were tanking for--who just swapped out for their interceptors from your ship bay--don't even have to travel anywhere to tackle while you spit out and delegate fighters. Originally by: Shojjin You're a smartass just for having corrected his grammar, like you know so much better. Call CONCORD, z0mg, spelling mistakes were made! It's quite simply because I believe that a foundation to a good written-word community (i.e. these forums) is--shocker!--the ability to communicate effectively using the written word. If your own skills aren't up to par, Microsoft Word and OpenOffice both have excellent spelling and grammar tools, and I believe there's an option in FireFox 2.0 to spell-check in <TEXTAREA> boxes. --P P.S. Finally, one last note for those with mining drones of any type on a barge/exhumer--simply get on top of one roid, and mine it exclusively with drones. Then mine another roid, <15km away, with your lasers. Best of both worlds, and that way you maximize drone yield and minimize time spent travelling to another rock for your drones' sake.
Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 01:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Shojjin Even if you could always be right on top of a roid, all the extra managing aside, can you justify paying 40 times more per harvesters than a T2 costs versus the small reward ? Plus if you lose them (which is more than likely, if you are jumped on by pirates or CTD), the small ammount of extra ISK you made using them will go into repaying for a new set. They suck Quite frankly, yes I can :) Also, you can say the same thing to those buying Hulk's. ----- Originally by: wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
Amphetaminer	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:49:00 - [85] hey thx for taking the time to write this guide. Ive started playing 2 days ago and think mining is a good way to start getting to know the game. The guide is pretty good the only thing i don't really get (and hope someone can answer) is do you use an alternate char on the same account for hauling the cans or do u just fly back to the nearest station and have your hauler there aswell and switch ships?? Since u can only learn 1 skill at the time it would take me quite sometime to get skills for the hauler ship and while im learning that i cant improve my gain from my main ship right (i hope u understand what i mean :P)
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:13:00 - [86] Hey, What rigs should i use on the hulk? i was thinking the anti-kinetic rigs to increase my resist to kinetic (guristas rats). Or maybe a cap recharge to keep the tank? Any suggestions?
Firecrak	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:33:00 - [87] Great guide. I am not a miner, but hell, its nice to read about all the diffrent prospects of making ISK in eve :)
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:28:00 - [88] Edited by: Halada on 21/01/2007 18:30:07 I have released version 2.0.1 of the guide. I've added some comments and info on heavily debated subjects, removed some inappropriate content and corrected some mistakes. I've been following the thread and I really do not appreciate people who come here to moan or ***** just for the heck of it without offering constructive criticism. I consider to be the "owner" of this thread since it is the for a piece of work it took me a while to write. I would appreciate if all trolls (trolling is everything from insulting others up to trying to be a smartass by correcting other people's grammar) could stay away from this thread. I believe this thread should remain civilized and helpful since EVE gets new players every day, and I want them to seek guidance in a clean thread. I will not hesitate to contact the mods to have any harmful comments removed. If you feel the urge to show off your e-peen start another thread. Thank you ! MANY thanks for all the mail I have gotten, I was overwhelmed by the number of eve mails I received ! Thank you for showing you care, I'm VERY happy it could help you out. All this work didn't go for nothing I wish you all a happy new year 2007 by the way ! The best mining guide in the galaxy
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:09:00 - [89] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 21/01/2007 18:30:07 I have released version 2.0.1 of the guide. I've added some comments and info on heavily debated subjects, removed some inappropriate content and corrected some mistakes. I've been following the thread and I really do not appreciate people who come here to moan or ***** just for the heck of it without offering constructive criticism. I consider to be the "owner" of this thread since it is the for a piece of work it took me a while to write. I would appreciate if all trolls (trolling is everything from insulting others up to trying to be a smartass by correcting other people's grammar) could stay away from this thread. I believe this thread should remain civilized and helpful since EVE gets new players every day, and I want them to seek guidance in a clean thread. I will not hesitate to contact the mods to have any harmful comments removed. If you feel the urge to show off your e-peen start another thread. Thank you ! MANY thanks for all the mail I have gotten, I was overwhelmed by the number of eve mails I received ! Thank you for showing you care, I'm VERY happy it could help you out. All this work didn't go for nothing I wish you all a happy new year 2007 by the way ! Exactly, this guide is THE BEST or THY BEST. All your work is greatly appreciated it helps alot. (No this isnt buttkissing) Gonna check out the new guide :D. Good work keep it up.
Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:05:00 - [90] I support this guide 100%. If you have issues with it. I would argue it is because you are not going to be or are not a dedicated miner thus you should only take snippets from it and then reapply them to your style of play. This guide caters for "part time" miners but its emphasis is on dedicated "full time" miners. -------------- Dang nabit

Kharich	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:53:00 - [91] I'm pretty sure the mining formula is wrong... that or I'm interpreting it wrong, because I calculated it with all 3 skills at lv5 and it never even reaches 76% (assuming station equipment is at 75%) I did: 75 + (0.375 x (1 + [5 x 0.02]) x (1 + [5 x 0.04]) x (1 + [5 x 0.05])) = 75,61875 % and it gives even less (obviously) if it's 75 + (0.375 x ([1 + 5]x 0.02) x ([1 + 5] x 0.04) x ([1 + 5] x 0.05)) I bring this up because I'm in the market for a PoS refinery and was researching weather the yeild was better or not than a station's, and the document came up during a search.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:47:00 - [92] the equation is accurate only for stations, a POS gives a MAX refining yield of 75% Click on my sig to read it !
Gnord	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:37:00 - [93] Ok, I've searched your guide, the forums, the web in general, and I still cannot find any significant calculation, hypothesis, or explanation on how the volatility on crystals works. If it's out there, I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't find it. SO, Let's start with a veldspar mining crystal. Volatility: 0.1% Volatility Damage: 0.025 Crystals Damage: 1 I'm trying to figure out how long a particular crystal will last. Nobody I've talked to has a real definite answer, and certainly no kind of formula or calculation. Your guide has much more information on crystals than I've seen anywhere else, but of course it still lacks this one detail. Further explanation on this would be great, thanks. G'nord
Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:58:00 - [94] Originally by: Gnord ... Theres no real way to tell the Crystal could explode on your first cycle or on your 1000th cycle because it is chance based. Granted theres a gradual increase on the chance of it blowing up the more you use the crystal but the figure I get most of the time for my crystals (When I use them occasionally, I prefere strip Is) is anywhere between 23-30 hours worth of mining. -------------- Dang nabit
Orestes Umnon Minmatar Anqara Industries	Posted - 2007.01.24 22:17:00 - [95] Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2: "Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor." Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you?
Traderin Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:36:00 - [96] Edited by: Traderin on 24/01/2007 23:32:56 Huh?
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:38:00 - [97] Originally by: Orestes Umnon Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2: "Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor." Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you? Ohhh WTF? This was recently and silently changed because prior to writing the guide I checked and there were no mention of ice harvesters. This was added out of the blues. Again something that went unnotice because no one thought about writing it in patch notes Click on my sig to read it !
Alexi Johns	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:15:00 - [98] ok i typed up a nice post neat and structured and the eve forums eat it grr.. so pleasse excuse this post Halada, If you do another revision can you include the following. 1. A macro/formula to update the data in your figures with current market prices and to deal with market fluctuations. Including ore ice and gas. 2. More detail about ore volumes and how this relates to yield and isk vs time ... for those people who insist Mecoxit is the best thing to mine. 3. A Chapter on Gas harvesting Thanks in advance and for the great guide
Eewec Ourbyni Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:53:00 - [99] AS this seems to be the place to talk about all things mining... Anyone had any info on this little conundrum? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0701/soyeahumm.JPG? This is a sig... -- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio -- ... good, ain't it!
Taaketa Frist PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.26 11:10:00 - [100] Originally by: Eewec Ourbyni ... No idea. But as you are there you may be first to test out the skill and see if it works or not on those mods :p -------------- Dang nabit

Mr Xofar Xofar Mining -N- Trans	Posted - 2007.01.26 13:46:00 - [101] Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe. why do all this... [Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05) When all you need is this... *efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill 5) / 100** If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield. The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill. The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1] refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency received = refined - (refined * comission / 100) Mr Xofar's EVE Website Miner Timer Thread
0raven0	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Mr Xofar Edited by: Mr Xofar on 27/01/2007 08:51:17 Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe. why do all this... [Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05) When all you need is this... *efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill 5) / 100** If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield. The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill. The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1] refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency received = refined - (refined * comission / 100) EDIT: It should also be pointed out that [Station Equipment] should be represented as [Station Equipment/100] if you're going to use that formula. Then the entire result needs to be multiplied by 100, or just use [Station Equipment] + 37.5...etc. Then divide the result by 100 and the multiply the base mineral amount by that to get your yield. Either way, it's more work that you need to do to get an accurate refining efficiency for that station. I think part of the reason he shows that formula is for people that have low or no refining skills and want to see what they will get when the have a certain level of a skill. That way they can just fill in the blanks with whatever they want.
Internet Engineer	Posted - 2007.01.28 10:41:00 - [103] Very nice, thanks Halada
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.29 00:32:00 - [104] Very nice guide, however, the prices really need to be adjusted to the current market again. Crokite used to be at 10k/unit, but now it's closer to 6k/unit. Is it even still possible to reach the fabled 100m/h nowadays? Is it me, or did the opening of the new regions really eat into the miners profits? Mercoxit also plummeted badly, Morphite went from 15k to 5k basically. Mercoxit mining doesn't seem worth the hassle anymore. Although Ice Mining seems to have stayed roughly the same, some price fluctuations have occured there too. Dark Glitter is worth about 50% more. Strontium is at 5k now, and LO can go for 500 easily. Given that you don't update the sheet anymore, you could perhaps appoint someone to take it over to keep it up to date? (Not me, I'm only a part time miner! ) ------ In Carebear We Trust
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:57:00 - [105] An excellent guide, many thanks from many pilots. If I may add a couple of things not noted above already... A couple of Mining Drone Augmentor Rigs in a High Sec Hulk setup (for all those who would like cheaper Trit!) are very good and, to add to the Guide - they work well and stack (Section 8.1) In section 9 - there's currently no mention of the Ice Mining Gang Module - plus the confirmed fact that there are still many High Sec Ice Fields out there... But, still, an excellent piece of work.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:24:00 - [106] The ice mining actually is covered. As for the high sec ice fields, they are suppose to disappear over time. Click on my sig to read it !
0raven0 Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.01 07:06:00 - [107] None of the links in the guide are working for the newest update. None of the "jump to" links from the table of contents nor the links to websites like the refining calculator are actually links. I mean they are obviously supposed to be links but they are just normal text.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.02.01 09:38:00 - [108] Office 2007 flt. Ill try to fix it Click on my sig to read it !
Mattif2k3 Gallente Omega Armada	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:40:00 - [109] first of all, thx halada 4 the great guide. since i started to play eve i was focusing on mining. thus your guide became my bible. i love the formulas and the good consideration of possibilities. i got two chars. one miner (hulk) and one BC-foreman-donator and in 15 days both will hit the end of skilling in this direction. its real fun to mine. (even in empire ) i'm looking foreward to see a new version including the rokh, hulk ice mining and gas mining (!) greetz, Mattif2k3 & Chromaticus
Kilgaard	Posted - 2007.02.02 04:06:00 - [110] I'm a n00b that has been looking at mining to help my manufacturing ambitions. I've got a question regarding the merits of Miner II lasers. It seems to me that mining is a very CPU intensive operation, and the fitout you can get on many ships is limited by the CPU. If you have a ship that has lots of turret mounts (like a humble Catalyst destroyer) then the best fit for this ship is something that maximises your yield per CPU. Quick calcs: Miner I: 40m3/60tf = .66 Miner II: 60m3/80tf = .75 XeCl Drilling Beam I: 47m3/48tf = .98 Miner IIs also require Mining Iv, and have an activation requirement of 90 compared to the 10 needed for XeCl. Sure, if you have a ship that is turret limited, then the Miner IIs are better, but if you are CPU limited then the XeCls are significantly better. Using XeCl lasers, I can fit 5 on my Catalyst giving me a raw yield of 235m3. Using Miner IIs (which I can't yet as I don't have Mining IV) I would only get 180m3. This gives me a much better ship than a Bantom, and requires much less SPs than an Osprey. I will admit though that I'm having trouble working out the yield when you take into account the 20% bonus that the Osprey gets. This is probably enough so that I will skip the Osprey entirely and go directly to a Domi.

Luka Intarestum	Posted - 2007.02.05 20:22:00 - [111] Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag. Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then... M = Yield of a Miner. 4 Miner Fleet: 4M vs. 3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M 5 Miner Fleet: 5M vs. 4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.08 12:04:00 - [112] Originally by: Luka Intarestum Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag. Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then... M = Yield of a Miner. 4 Miner Fleet: 4M vs. 3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M 5 Miner Fleet: 5M vs. 4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in. I tend to do it anyway, even with a single barge available, because I have the Director skills and not the barge ones! The numbers, however, are also impacted if the Command ship carries the Tech II Mining Drones and 3 x rigs - that's an additional 415m3 per 'cycle' - and yes is fitted with tractor and salvager too. Where oh where is that Mining Drone Gang Module!
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:06:00 - [113] Quote: Mining Laser Upgrades +5% to yield per MLU Is that correct?. Quote: Skill at using mining upgrades. 5% reduction per skill level in CPU penalty of mining upgrade modules. Ummm ?
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:31:00 - [114] You just gave the description for the skill, not the module itself Click on my sig to read it !
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:34:00 - [115] Quote: Increases the yield on mining lasers, but causes them to use up more CPU. Doesn't say that it increases X per level tho.
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.08 23:47:00 - [116] No, the skill decreases the cpu penalty, that's all. The module increases yield by 5%, regardless what level you have for the skill. What am I missing here? Click on my sig to read it !
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2007.02.08 23:54:00 - [117] AH, just me being stupid again lol. Thought it was a skill listing rather than the actual item. Forgive my stupid posts. Great guide :)
Fatalita Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.09 19:04:00 - [118] This thing helped me out a lot. I don't post much, but thanks!
Dangermouse DM Caldari M R Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.14 03:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 12/02/2007 20:07:13 FIGHT FOR MORALITY AND EQUALITY As of today I will no longer support CCP by taking time out of my lives and promote their game. The way they have handled the recent scandal, and the over usage of moderation disgusts my very essence. CCP has forever lost my respect. The guide will remain available as long as you deem it actual and good, perhaps one day I will keep doing it, for the players, but certainly not for a self-righteous company like CCP. I wish you good luck with your EVE career. I'm sorry to hear of your disillusionment with CCP and I have to say I agree with you one hundred percent but I'd also like to say that it was your guide that got me into the game. It was the first guide I looked at on anything, it got me started and introduced me to the depth and uniqueness of Eve. Thank you for that and please remember that ultimatly regardless of how it is run it is the participents that set the tone and morality of a mmorpg. I think the game was set up from the start with a loose definition of honour and fair play (I'm not saying that is a bad thing, quite the opposite) and prehaps in striving for that goal the developers have lost a little of thier own morality. Regardless we need those that are outraged by this to not give up as I for one would hate to play this game with a bunch of people that didn't care.
Tolomea Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:16:00 - [120] Your ice mining gang boost calculations are somewhat misleading. You claim that the gang bonuses increase you from 11 cycles an hour to 15, a bonus of 4 cycles. Which appears to be a bonus of 36% In reality it goes from 11.35 to 14.64 an increase of 3.29 Which is a fair bit closer to 3 than 4 and is exactly 29% the same as with ore mining.

Mattif2k3 Gallente Omega Armada	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:58:00 - [121] Originally by: Tolomea Your ice mining gang boost calculations are somewhat misleading. You claim that the gang bonuses increase you from 11 cycles an hour to 15, a bonus of 4 cycles. Which appears to be a bonus of 36% In reality it goes from 11.35 to 14.64 an increase of 3.29 Which is a fair bit closer to 3 than 4 and is exactly 29% the same as with ore mining. both are "correct". he just look at he cycles / hour ratio and you looked at the exact numbers. probably halada will take the exact numbers for the next version, once he will work on thi sguide again
Chen Chura	Posted - 2007.02.21 07:52:00 - [122] With Regards to the Mining Foreman Mindlink: the Highwall HX-2 and Michi Excavations each give a net bonus of 5% to mining. The mind link gives a 50% bonus on the mining foreman skill which is 10% at level 5... so the mining foreman modifier increases from 1.1 to 1.15 which is only a net gain of 4.545% to your mining yeild.. this is of course not taking any mindlink moduals into account since thoese can only be equiped on BC's and Command/Capital ships. If you have a choice between the Highwall HX-2 and the Mining Foreman Mindlink you should go for the Highwall's consistant 5% bonus vs the situational 4.545% bonus from the mindlink, assuming you are already normally getting the 10% mining foreman bonuse from being squadron commander.
Alexoin	Posted - 2007.02.21 21:32:00 - [123] Originally by: Gnord Ok, I've searched your guide, the forums, the web in general, and I still cannot find any significant calculation, hypothesis, or explanation on how the volatility on crystals works. If it's out there, I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't find it. SO, Let's start with a veldspar mining crystal. Volatility: 0.1% Volatility Damage: 0.025 Crystals Damage: 1 I'm trying to figure out how long a particular crystal will last. Nobody I've talked to has a real definite answer, and certainly no kind of formula or calculation. Your guide has much more information on crystals than I've seen anywhere else, but of course it still lacks this one detail. Further explanation on this would be great, thanks. G'nord I think this is how it works:) The volatility means that the crystal has a 0.1% chance that it will take damage (ie 1 in 1000). This is tested at the start of a cycle. The volatility damage of 0.025 is the amount of damage the crystal takes whenever it takes damage (due to volatility) If you look at a crystal that is equipped you can see how much damage it has taken. When the damage reaches 1.0 the crystal will explode at the end of the cycle. Note I am not sure that the volatility is right though, from experience it seems that it is more like 1 in 10 (0.1 or 10%) that the crystal takes damage.
Shitaki Intaki	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:59:00 - [124] Edited by: **aki Intaki on 22/02/2007 19:43:50 Tech 1 Volitility 0.1 Volitility damage 0.025 Crystal damage 1.0 Using an approximatly binomial distribution: Assuming the crystal has a 0.1 chance (10%) of taking damage each cycle And that the crystal is destroyed after taking damage 40 times Then, where n = lifetime of crystal in cycles Mode ààààààààà........ 399 Median àààààà.àà....... 405 Meanàààààààà.à........ 409 Standard Deviationààà.... 60.75 Variance ààààààà.......3690 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tech 2 Volitility 0.2 Volitility damage 0.05 Crystal damage 1.0 Using an approximatly binomial distribution: Assuming the crystal has a 0.2 chance (20%) of taking damage each cycle And that the crystal is destroyed after taking damage 20 times Then, where n = lifetime of crystal in cycles Mode ààààààààà........... 99.5 Median àààààà.àà........ 102 Meanàààààààà.à......... 104 Standard Deviationààà..... 20.49 Variance ààààààà......... 420
ferite	Posted - 2007.02.24 21:54:00 - [125] Lots of work thanks
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2007.02.24 23:13:00 - [126] Originally by: Rumbaar Still a great guide. I just wanted to point out in section 4 you don't really compare apples with apple in regards to how low the Retriever truly is compared to a Battleship for yield and protection. With the battleships you use the skill levels Mining 4 and Astro 4 but for the Retriever you use Mining 5 and Astro 5 (which is around a 19D+ skill to get too) for the yield, also you use Barge 4 instead of 3 for the calculations. So the true comparison for a person as about that level of training in mining would be Mining 4, Astro 4 and Barge 3. 540 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.09 * 1.05 = 889.96 m3/cycle Omber 889.96/0.6 = 1483 to 59,320 (Barge 4 only give additional 1640 units) unit of Omber per hour which is way below the Dominix's 65,880 units per hour. So the Retriever is actually the least yield of the bunch in the section. Or if you want to look at it another way and take the Dominix with the same stat as used for the Retriever in the guide it would gives you 71,640 Omber units per hour. Once again far above the Retriever. The only benefit of a Retriever is it's price, and if needed Ice Harvesters. But it fall way behind the Dominix and Apoc for yield (in apples for apples comparison) and tankability. But you have to clicky more!! That's not acceptable. Actually I think he's assuming that if you have a retriever your going to be training in the direction of the covetor, but yeah, if you werent then maybe you are correct and the domi is the better option. Not crunching the numbers myself, i leave that to halada:)
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:54:00 - [127] Halada is for sale Click on my sig to read it !
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.02 06:05:00 - [128] Edited by: Riley Craven on 02/03/2007 06:02:00 Originally by: Shreddy Krueger For 0.0 of course the Rokh is the best choice as the Apoc cannot fit a tank when going on full mining setup. Actually on this point you are dead wrong. Consider the following fit highs 8x DCM II Meds 4x Ecutic Cap charger Lows 3x t2 cpu 1x MLU 1x Large Accom armor rep 1x DB Therm hardner 1x DB EM hardner Granted its hvly tanked to deal with amar dmg dealing rats, but as you can see this is a tank and mining setup, will tank most bs spawns in fact. The rep and laser and hardners run forever and your cap is steady around around 30-40%. Course at this point I should mention I have perfect fitand cap skills to make this setup work on cpu.
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.03.04 17:50:00 - [129] Amazing guide, good job :D Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Grimarm	Posted - 2007.03.05 05:40:00 - [130] great guide

dsN Ninja Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2007.03.07 07:11:00 - [131] Absolutely Amazing. GEE GEE NO RE!
Okt	Posted - 2007.03.07 12:42:00 - [132] Very nice guide, it helped me out a lot. Thank you.
Garek Selwonk Gallente Antares Frontier The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:58:00 - [133] Just wanna say thanks for this amazin guide. Thanks So Much!
Imuran	Posted - 2007.03.27 23:41:00 - [134] Just to say good luck Halada and thanks for this guide
Chitah Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.03.28 01:13:00 - [135] great guide...Congrats for the job well done I have 1 question regarding the Dominix and Hyperion: Dominix: "Special Ability: ...and 10% to hitpoints bonus and damage per skill level" Does this damage stack at Mining drones? If yes then possibly with Gallente BS4 using T2 drones and DCM2 w/ crystals will outperform the Arma. I haven't seen many talks about the hyperion which also has 8 turret slots. It has more base Capacity and a slightly better cap recharge then the rokh. Wouldn't the hyperion be better than the rokh?
Gnord	Posted - 2007.03.29 01:21:00 - [136] The first post no longer has a file behind the link. I wanted to reference it for a particular detail but it is lost! Does anybody have another copy they'd upload and make available?
Tybr	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:16:00 - [137] Thank you very much Halada! The guide was excatly what a noob like myself needed.
Soet Flicka14 Red 42 CORE.	Posted - 2007.04.03 18:21:00 - [138] Great guide! I have one question though, anyone please feel free to answer. My skiff has a yield of 2470.7m3 / 40 = 61 Mercoxit every 3 minutes (without Mining Laser Upgrades, 2723.9m3 with). Now, according to this guide a maxed out Hulk pilot should use the following formula to calculate the Skiffs yield; 2501.251.251.151.1541.051.3751.05^2 = 3289.17 m3/cycle, 3289.17/40 = 82 Mercoxit every 3 minutes. Could someone please interpret this forumla into skills? i.e fill in the blanks/question signs. 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield)1.25(Mining lvl 5)1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5)1.15(?)1.15(?)4(?)1.05(?)1.375(?)1.05^2(?) = 3289.17. Cause I see myself as a "maxed out hulk pilot" but apparently I'm not, so I want to know what I'm missing. Again, great guide Halada, thanks! and I would be very grateful if someone could give an answer to this post. ----------- Queen of you.
Bowlance	Posted - 2007.04.03 19:22:00 - [139] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 02/03/2007 06:02:00 Originally by: Shreddy Krueger For 0.0 of course the Rokh is the best choice as the Apoc cannot fit a tank when going on full mining setup. Actually on this point you are dead wrong. Consider the following fit highs 8x DCM II Meds 4x Ecutic Cap charger Lows 3x t2 cpu 1x MLU 1x Large Accom armor rep 1x DB Therm hardner 1x DB EM hardner Granted its hvly tanked to deal with amar dmg dealing rats, but as you can see this is a tank and mining setup, will tank most bs spawns in fact. The rep and laser and hardners run forever and your cap is steady around around 30-40%. Course at this point I should mention I have perfect fitand cap skills to make this setup work on cpu. Uh.. my rokh fitted with; 8x dcm II's 2x t2 hardeners, 1x cap recharger, 3x t2 large shield extenders 2x mining laser upgrades, 1x named cargo expander, 2x co-processor II's Is way better than your apoc. And I could fit even more mining lasers upgrades with better skills, or rigs. I can tank 2x BS spawns in 0.0 with ~80% shields, and around 70% energy cap.
Colm McCulloch	Posted - 2007.04.06 21:59:00 - [140] Originally by: Soet Flicka14 Great guide! I have one question though, anyone please feel free to answer. My skiff has a yield of 2470.7m3 / 40 = 61 Mercoxit every 3 minutes (without Mining Laser Upgrades, 2723.9m3 with). Now, according to this guide a maxed out Hulk pilot should use the following formula to calculate the Skiffs yield; 2501.251.251.151.1541.051.3751.05^2 = 3289.17 m3/cycle, 3289.17/40 = 82 Mercoxit every 3 minutes. Could someone please interpret this forumla into skills? i.e fill in the blanks/question signs. 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield)1.25(Mining lvl 5)1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5)1.15(?)1.15(?)4(?)1.05(?)1.375(?)1.05^2(?) = 3289.17. Cause I see myself as a "maxed out hulk pilot" but apparently I'm not, so I want to know what I'm missing. Again, great guide Halada, thanks! and I would be very grateful if someone could give an answer to this post. I think there is a slight error in that calculation: 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield) 1.25(Mining lvl 5) 1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5) 1.15(Mining Barge V) 1.15(Mining Forman V w/ help from Mindlink?) 1.05(HX-2 Highwall) 1.75(T2 Mining Crystal) 3(Exhumer V bonus for Skiff[.65]) 1.05^2(MLUx2) = 3,139.66 m3 /40 = 78 units per cycle Without implants and MLU this should be: 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield) 1.25(Mining lvl 5) 1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5) 1.15(Mining Barge V) 1.10(Mining Forman V 1.75(T2 Mining Crystal) 3(Exhumer V bonus for Skiff[.65])= 2,594.24 m3 /40 = 64 units per cycle

Elliesium Al'kar	Posted - 2007.04.08 10:13:00 - [141] My 0.0 Rokh (anti gurista flavor) ---------- 8 Miner IIs -always on 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II (active kinetic shield)-always on 1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I (passive kinetic shield) 1x Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I (passive thermal shield) 1x 'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier (named shield boost amp) 1x Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster (74.1 shield for 12.22 energy? Heck yes!) (booster is left always on) 3x Mining Laser Upgrade I 2x CPU Upgrades 3 Capacitor Control Circuit Rigs (The KEY to keeping perma cap) Need electronics 5 to fit the 3 mlus - with electronics 4 you can fit 2 mlus and a pdu. This baby can perma tank 3x 1.8m BS spawns without even taking red on the shields. You can run all lasers with no cap worries. Makes a great tank for my Hulk alt. Due to cost, aligning to the POS is recommended :) I also want to point out one little factoid to BS miners - You may need to skill up several +5%gains with skills or modules to see a difference in high end ore gathering, due to the fact that bistot, for example, is 16m3. similar to the drone yield calculations. When you do see an increase, its huge. Say you were getting 6 ore from each laser, for 48 ore/minute. When you cross the next 16m3 threshold you get 7 ore per laser for 56 ore/minute. Thats a 14.28572% gain.
Celciuz	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:07:00 - [142] Pardon me, but what type of Caldari do I need in order to take full advantage of the guide? Like which to pump to and which race to choose?
Yulada Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.04.11 09:22:00 - [143] Edited by: Yulada on 11/04/2007 09:18:08 This is the original Halada. My character Halada is now under new ownership since I have officially taken my leave of EVE. Perhaps not forever, time will tell. I have received a couple of e-mail to congratulate me on my nomination for ''Best Guide of all EVE'' in EON #7. Thank you for the bottom of my heart, it was a a pleasure writing this and getting the response I got. Keep living the carebear dream ! Regards, Halada
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp.	Posted - 2007.04.11 15:12:00 - [144] Originally by: Elliesium Al'kar My 0.0 Rokh (anti gurista flavor) ---------- 8 Miner IIs -always on 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II (active kinetic shield)-always on 1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I (passive kinetic shield) 1x Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I (passive thermal shield) 1x 'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier (named shield boost amp) 1x Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster (74.1 shield for 12.22 energy? Heck yes!) (booster is left always on) 3x Mining Laser Upgrade I 2x CPU Upgrades 3 Capacitor Control Circuit Rigs (The KEY to keeping perma cap) Need electronics 5 to fit the 3 mlus - with electronics 4 you can fit 2 mlus and a pdu. This baby can perma tank 3x 1.8m BS spawns without even taking red on the shields. You can run all lasers with no cap worries. Makes a great tank for my Hulk alt. Due to cost, aligning to the POS is recommended :) I also want to point out one little factoid to BS miners - You may need to skill up several +5%gains with skills or modules to see a difference in high end ore gathering, due to the fact that bistot, for example, is 16m3. similar to the drone yield calculations. When you do see an increase, its huge. Say you were getting 6 ore from each laser, for 48 ore/minute. When you cross the next 16m3 threshold you get 7 ore per laser for 56 ore/minute. Thats a 14.28572% gain. This is a nice little build, Are all your cap skills maxed out? I'm surprised that you need 3 cap control circuits to keep that running. Could you maybe fit a pithii A-type and swap the boost amplifier for a cap battery? _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
BogdanZero	Posted - 2007.04.17 23:31:00 - [145] I want to thank you very much halada , great job with the guide.
Visionsz Caldari Midas Tycho	Posted - 2007.04.28 17:13:00 - [146] Nice guide Halada :) Just some pics!
Areo Hotah	Posted - 2007.04.29 13:42:00 - [147] There is small mistake in the Arkonor numbers. The number of units to refine says 200 in the Item Database, not 250, as in the guide. Areo
Dramaan	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:37:00 - [148] I was wondering why he wrote that hulk don't have anny bonus to ice Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level and 3% reduction in Ice Harvester duration any one that knows?
Yulada Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.05.04 17:27:00 - [149] Because the bonus was only added in Rev and I CBA to change it now
Mira Ryzondus	Posted - 2007.05.13 06:51:00 - [150] Originally by: Gnord The first post no longer has a file behind the link. I wanted to reference it for a particular detail but it is lost! Does anybody have another copy they'd upload and make available? I can download them, but Acrobat says the file is incomplete or corrupt. On an note unrelated to the file, I'm definitely interested in mining and this thread is phenomenally helpful. I have what is more or less an odd question: I really like the (visual) design of Minmatar ships - with the obvious exception of the ORE ships, am I going to be significantly handicapped by taking, say, the Scythe over the Osprey or the Wreathe over the Badger? At least, early in my mining career?

mochavay Melt's in Your Mouth Industries	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:54:00 - [151] Kudos on a great guide to help everyone out :) I have checked around and have not seen anything about this tpic yet .. It has to do with the ice harvesting calculations .. Tha Hulk does give a 3% reduction in cycle time per level of exhumer skilled . Not complaining by any means , but i am getting ready to run the numbers and see what i come up with . If this has already been discussed .. srry i must have missed it
Archimedes Lao Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.14 03:59:00 - [152] Great guide! I am a newbie, but I think I have discovered something useful. The Cormorant is a considerably better mining platform than the Bantam and other than Destroyer I it has the same required skills as the Osprey. Because of this, I have been using it to mine while I get the last few skills I need to get into my Osprey.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.22 00:56:00 - [153] I just want to know if crystals wear out?
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.22 02:05:00 - [154] I found it.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.25 22:02:00 - [155] how does ice refining at the 40k refiner at pos work? I've been told it goes at 100% as base, but my results don't seem to confirm that.
Donald 01Miner	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:45:00 - [156] Halada, I would like to refute your argument about capital ship mining and correct you on a great many things in this respect. I've been carrier mining in coin for a long long time (recently disbanded branch of DICE industrial) Your initial comments on the matter: 1: easy target, tank not invincible, attract attention Argument: This point seems to me completely frivilous. Any op will attract attention when they are flaunting multiple well outfited 'hulks' and ipmlants. To imply adding a 1 bil ship to the mix makes this relevant I don't see how. The 'tank' as you call it, whiel not invincible, is drastically better than any other ship you will use to fill the roles it can/does fill in any mining op, so again, another point seemingly made from a flawed viewpoint. "easy target"...I generally mine from a station in 0.0 when I'm 'solo' i have 4 accounts, when with corp, quite a lot more. The carrier is the only ship that can fit the gang/tank role both and live long enough for us to get out, get into OUR support ships come back and bbq the attackers. 2: The carrier is a 1 bil ship, and not intended for this use Argument: Another frivilous comment on your part (sorry). The 'intended' use is simply your opinion, based upon a lack of experience using them. The fact the ship costs 1 bil only matters to people who can't afford it. A hulk esp pre-patch easily cost 1 bil when you consider all your implants and proper mods (if you set it up right) this price has gone down a bit since then, but again, doesnt' seem to be a relevant point. I take the best tools to do the job, money is not a factor for me because I'm good at what I do. 3: It's a capital ship for christ sake Argument: Again, completely frivilous comment 4: No turret slots, so you can't fit any miners. Argument: This tells me you don't understand how to use capital ships? Or you aren't putting any energy into your comments. Fact: My completely completely maxed out carrier mines basically 1/2 of what the hulk pulsl in (yes I even have drone rigs, when I say max I mean max). Also consider, the hulk is getting the laser optimization so mining 1/2 of what the hulk is, imho, is a pretty nice hefty chunk when this isn't the carrier's primary job (I only do that when solo mining by mining from a 250 distance) You don't FIT lasers onto the carrier you fit drone control mids and a laser opt for your hulks. The carrier tanks AND commands. 5: (same comment bla bla) ********* You go on to compare retrievers and such to carriers and make some (frankly) silly comments. First of all, Why the hell would you even compare the two? Show me a retriever that's tanking pirates and can assign 14 cruiser-size ships to people for defensive reasons AND at the same time fill the command ship role by boosting the entire gang's mining lasers etc etc etc? I'm sure Halada, you have much better arguments (maybe?) to make here, but what you wrote in your guide is in so many ways silly and you are misleading a lot of people. Comparing a barge to a carrier for mining is like comparing a battlecruiser to a freighter (wtf completely dif roles) The whole point about the carrier's mining drones is that, when he/she WANTS to, he/she CAN mine a not insignificant amount of ore with 14 t2 drones in close range with rigs loaded onto the cap ship. In fact, this carrier that you 'scoff' so much in fact mines BETTEr than any command ship can, fulfilling the same role. This point clearly makes it the superior choice (dollars) not taken into account. You go on to say people who use carriers shouldn't talk to you ever again(I'm sorry, I respect your guide but your'e being downright childish). Then you completely contradict yourself by pointing out the carirer makes a good gang assist as a tank. Um hello...it's not as if you can't tank, have remote repairs if needed AND mine AND fill the laser optimization mining director role all in 1 ship. That's the POINT (continue
Yulada Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.06.01 16:30:00 - [157] Feel free to write your own guide and then write what you think about the matter in it !
Adolin	Posted - 2007.06.04 23:46:00 - [158] Edited by: Adolin on 04/06/2007 23:44:53 Great guide Halada, enjoyed it immensely. Probably the best and easiest to understand thus far. May i ask what corp your in and if there are any positions open? Thanks
MiningChick Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.09 15:10:00 - [159] Edited by: MiningChick on 09/06/2007 15:09:42 Hey Yulada/Halada, great guide, thanks a lot for it. You say your Halada character is under new ownership, and you're posting on your other char (I'm assuming a more combat-oriented/pvp one). If I'm prying too much, please just tell me to shutup; but if you'd be so kind to answer, were there any other factors into you transferring your mining char (and obviously a nice one) to someone else? I myself am fairly a "newer player" as they would say, and after doing a lot of reading, I see a lot of people say mining in eve isn't worth it these days, that most people that become the best miners end up quitting it because mining isn't the ISK king it once was, and that other things are not only more fun, but potentially much more lucrative than mining these days, AND require a lot less skill points / investment. Do you agree with any of that and/or any comments on how you feel about the current state of mining and it's position as being a worthwhile profession in eve?
Dlardrageth	Posted - 2007.06.12 03:39:00 - [160] Well, read the guide and got something like a "Duh, now that changes my career path!" feeling. Great work, for sure! But then, I miss a whole section somehow (No offense!): What's the word on Gas Cloud mining? Is it worth it and what you have to look for when considering it? Anyone got an idea or five?

Fitz VonHeise United Connection's	Posted - 2007.06.18 22:18:00 - [161] This really is a great "guide". But is not complete in all cases. One area being the Hulk is great for ice mining for one reason only: Cargo hold size. If you put two cargo hold optimizers on a Hulk and two expander II's in it you end up with over 17,000m of space available. This translates into 17 units of ice without having to go back to drop it off or have an indy around. Simply put... you can tank in High Sec AFK with a Hulk and come back 45 min or so later and find you have 17 units of ice to drop at the station. Rinse and repeat. True the Mac will out mine a Hulk per hour.... but some people have lives and are not going to babysit their mining operation every moment of the day.
Rubiks Cube	Posted - 2007.07.01 13:14:00 - [162] I just started EVE, but alot of poeple talk about having 2 accounts for mining. They use 1 to haule/protect and the other to mine. But reading this guide I see no indication of using this stratagy. Can someone please explain to me what would be the better way of mining? 2 accounts, or 1? Would be cool with a "2 account mining guide"... Sorry for the "nOObiness"...heh....
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.02 16:30:00 - [163] I got in an argument with someone yesterday about ice-mining yields. They insisted that the Hulk, "mined four more units of ice" per hour than the next best miner. This after I recommended to someone the best miner for ice is the Mack. And much to my own chagrin, I was incorrect. Unfortunately, the guide is now out of date in that regard, and so here is an addendum to the ice mining yield sections. Most people already know this, but for the sake of being accurate, here is the data: Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk/// 50.05703112 /// 16.68567704 Covetor/// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack/// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 The Hulk is 33 percent more productive than the Covetor and the Mack is 20.8% more productive than the Covetor. The Hulk is 10% more productive than the Mack.
Tibrius Archer Kurai-Komichi Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.02 17:25:00 - [164] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow the T2 will haul in more per hour, even if the haul per cycle is better on a Harvester. When the haul per cycle is 33% better than t2 drones (8 ore units instead of 6), unless those Harvesters are spending 20 EXTRA seconds per cycle coming back from and going to the rock as compared to their t2 brethren, Harvies still win the day. Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow Harvesters suck, period. How kind of you to blindly follow the dictates of the semi-informed guide writer rather than look at the math and realize you're wrong. That's okay; I'm sure you'd also tell me that Neutron blasters rock, even when you're fitting 2 damage mods and a reactor control, and I'm using Ions with 3 damage mods. Or any number of similarly cockamamie stances based, again, not on a careful review of the evidence but instead on some half-baked "gut feeling" or on an overblown, self-righteous, "thread-pwning!!11!!1!" mining guide writer. If you'd like to dispute my math, dispute my math. But don't make stupid assertions without the intestinal fortitude or the intellectual capability to back them up. --P P.S. Preemptively, to the mods--"cockamamie", n. Something ridiculous, incredible, or implausible. From the French "dTcalcomanie". Not circumventing the profanity filter, just using a proper word in the proper context that happens to contain those letters in that order. I personally prefere T2's due to cost. But I want to give Pilk who wrote this a few months ago my friendship. I have had huge pointless arguement threads by people who throw gut feeling or 'because its seems so' evidence at me expecting them to knock over my emperical arguemts. I have even had the neutron/ion arguement you cited as an example and I got the usual "your a n00b Neutrons are what you need, ions/electrons are crap" Oh I love you so. The best is when someone said I was an utter insane moron for saying a passive drake can out tank a Harbringer with 4 medium t2 armour reps. And I proved numerically even with 1billion in faction Energised Adaptive membranes that is not so.... Such a good feeling. The fool still denied it due to his stupid 'gut feeling, therefore its so' or 'Everybody else seems to strongly think so'therefore that view must be correct logic. *Its this very logic of "because everybody says so it must be so" logic that kept slavery in place sexism and all the other things that look rediculous from out modern perspective going for 100's of years* Damn I love mavericks like you who do not jump on figure bandwagons and work things out. Beautiful. A bit of topic but its the way he argued, Could apply to so many threads in eve. ***************************************** "Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern"
TrunksZWAR	Posted - 2007.07.02 19:16:00 - [165] Gotta say, this guide has been my mining BIBLE to eve. I've never used anything else and I don't plan on it unless you don't do anymore updates to it. Don't worry about the little kiddies who think they know it all and want to refute opinions in the guide. Carriers are carriers. It's not cost effective to use a ship like that for mining. Now I wouldn't mind having one around when i'm doing a mining operation, but not as a miner. I'd rather the thing be outfitted to kick some butt in case someone comes in to break the operation up instead of wasting that money on mining equipment. Carriers might make a good ninja mining ship if you're a loner tho. Obviously some folks are! Keep up the good work!
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.07.03 01:06:00 - [166] link to guide dont work no more It's just a game........Or is it?????
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.07.03 02:48:00 - [167] nwm - got it working It's just a game........Or is it?????
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:18:00 - [168] Edited by: Halada on 03/07/2007 16:20:55 I'm back in EVE - it'll be a casual entertainment, not like before, but I'm part, at least partially ! The guide will receive a substantial update in the upcoming weeks with gas mining, new mining upgrade, corrections to Hulk, updated mining figures, etc... @ Those calling me semi-informed writer,**** off. I knew when writing the guide some half losers probably still living in your mom's basement would be to come in MY thread to practically insult me. Unless English is difficult to understand for you the maths for Harvesters show they are WORSE than T2 and not better. Prove me wrong and I'll call you my master (I'm assuming no changes were made since I left the game though as I have catch-up to do). Click on my sig to read it !
Alatari Winterdawn	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:52:00 - [169] Originally by: Halada I'm assuming no changes were made since I left the game though as I have catch-up to do. There's a set of named Mining Laser Upgrades now: * Mining Laser Upgrade - 5% bonus, 10% cpu penalty * Erin Mining Upgrade - 10% bonnus, 9% cpu penalty * Elara Mining Upgrade - 15% bonus, 8% cpu penalty * Carpo Mining Upgrade - 20% bonus, 7% cpu penalty * Aoede Mining Upgrade - 25% bonus, 6% cpu penalty
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:03:00 - [170] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 03/07/2007 16:23:41 I'm back in EVE - it'll be a casual entertainment, not like before, but I'm back, at least partially ! The guide will receive a substantial update in the upcoming weeks with gas mining, new mining upgrade, corrections to Hulk, updated mining figures, etc... @ Those calling me semi-informed writer,**** off. I knew when writing the guide some half losers probably still living in your mom's basement would be to come in MY thread to practically insult me. Unless English is difficult to understand for you the maths for Harvesters show they are WORSE than T2 and not better. Prove me wrong and I'll call you my master (I'm assuming no changes were made since I left the game though as I have catch-up to do). As I said up above, Harvies pull in 33% more than T2 in some situations. Thus, unless it takes them an EXTRA 20 seconds to make the round-trip, Harvesters are better. I'm not sitting in a mining ship at the moment, so I don't know if mining drones now MWD back and forth; I'll assume they don't. With Drone Navigation V (it's only Rank 1), a Mining Drone II travels at 750 m/s, and a Harvester at 375 m/s. So long as you're within 3,750m (or about 5 times that if mining drones MWD to/from the rock these days), Harvesters will pull down more ore. Now, let's be realistic for a moment--you're humping the 'roid you're mining with the drones while setting your strips on ones that are further away. Hell, if you really want to get crazy, grab some Mining Drone - Elites. They're the speed of t2, with the mining amount of Harvesters. So, unless you're going to maintain that you're more than 3,750m from a 'roid that you have drones on (in which case you're sacrificing plenty of mining yield to begin with, so this conversation is moot), I believe you owe me a new appellation. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.03 22:45:00 - [171] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 03/07/2007 16:23:41The guide will receive a substantial update in the upcoming weeks with gas mining, new mining upgrade, corrections to Hulk, updated mining figures, etc... See my ice mining figures. I can email you the spreadsheet as well (evemail in game).
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.03 23:26:00 - [172] Originally by: Pilk As I said up above, Harvies pull in 33% more than T2 in some situations. Thus, unless it takes them an EXTRA 20 seconds to make the round-trip, Harvesters are better. I'm not sitting in a mining ship at the moment, so I don't know if mining drones now MWD back and forth; I'll assume they don't. With Drone Navigation V (it's only Rank 1), a Mining Drone II travels at 750 m/s, and a Harvester at 375 m/s. So long as you're within 3,750m (or about 5 times that if mining drones MWD to/from the rock these days), Harvesters will pull down more ore. Now, let's be realistic for a moment--you're humping the 'roid you're mining with the drones while setting your strips on ones that are further away. Hell, if you really want to get crazy, grab some Mining Drone - Elites. They're the speed of t2, with the mining amount of Harvesters. So, unless you're going to maintain that you're more than 3,750m from a 'roid that you have drones on (in which case you're sacrificing plenty of mining yield to begin with, so this conversation is moot), I believe you owe me a new appellation. --P First, there was no need to call me semi-informed. It really shows respect when you take a jab at someone who took considerable time to compile and write 50 pages of information, then you come in trying to look like Mr. Bigshot ... as far as I know I don't owe you anything either. Second, Harvies pull 33% more than T2, yes, but T2 mining drones are 100% faster. Theorically, if a T2 mining drone brings 10units in 20 seconds, the Harvies will bring 13 in 40 seconds. That's a theorical 1170 units for harvies versus 1800 for T2 mining drones per hour. Now, I don't know how much mining you have done in your life but I'd like to think I pulled my fair share. I can tell you a maxed Hulk pilot (even an advanced Covetor pilot) will run out of roids in its 15km very quickly and will have to move eventually. Belts in 0.0 especially... So you can say you will have roids in range (less than 3,5km) all the time as much as you want it, it's not true and it does not reflect reality AT ALL. FINALLY, harvesters cost 20mil per drone versus for T2, and you are bound to lose drones. It happens. Lose 5 drones it's 100mil out the door, so bye bye profit and the time it will take to pay itself back will take long a long time. Seriously I don't know why people try to refute the arguments, it's clearly and well explained in the guide. You just look at numbers and put them in an ideal position, which is rarely the case, without looking at all the factors, either due to inexperience or lack of knowledge on the matter. It's usually ok, but calling me semi-informed when you are the one not seeing all the angles really ***es me off. Click on my sig to read it !*
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.03 23:27:00 - [173] @Etruscus - fire away mate, I'll have a look at them ! Click on my sig to read it !
MellaRinn The Scope	Posted - 2007.07.04 01:32:00 - [174] Halada, I've been wanting to post this for a while now - Gret Guide. I'll watch this space for the rev 2.1 updated version of it! Keep up the good work!! My Vids - Click
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.04 02:51:00 - [175] Originally by: Halada First, there was no need to call me semi-informed. You're seriously comparing me saying that you aren't as well-informed as you claim to you saying that I live in my mother's basement? How can you say that with a straight face? You're putting out information, I'm disputing it's accuracy, so you say I live in my mom's basement. Your logic is infallible! Your indignation is completely-justified! Sarcasm and hyperbole are the source of all evil! Originally by: Halada Second, Harvies pull 33% more than T2, yes, but T2 mining drones are 100% faster. Theorically, if a T2 mining drone brings 10units in 20 seconds, the Harvies will bring 13 in 40 seconds. I'm uncertain what mining drones you typically use, but mine have a mining duration of 60 seconds. And since the longer they mine, the less time they spend moving, that's an important difference. Originally by: Halada FINALLY, harvesters cost 20mil per drone versus for T2, and you are bound to lose drones. It happens. If you're losing mining drones, then, clearly, this applies. Are you mining without a scout, that you can't spend time to grab your drones? What in the world are you doing that leaves you so prone to drone loss? Originally by: Halada Seriously I don't know why people try to refute the arguments, it's clearly and well explained in the guide. You just look at numbers and put them in an ideal position, which is rarely the case, without looking at all the factors, either due to inexperience or lack of knowledge on the matter. It's usually ok, but calling me semi-informed when you are the one not seeing all the angles really ***es me off. Calling me close-minded, given your stance on mining in carriers, is somewhat... surprising, shall we say? At any rate, an apology for the "mom's basement" comment seems a bit a propos, no? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.04 11:36:00 - [176] You bit, and I bit back. Losing drones is inevitable, and I am more than qualified to know. I have organized, managed full long mining sessions, personal, small, average sized. In 0.0 if you get a hit group of ceptors (say 5x crows) by the time you get the alert they might already be in the system, and you'll have the choice of either saving your Hulk and expansive gear or the drones... The traveling factor is important and I cannot understand why you fail to see it. Maybe you are too young and can grasp the situation, but it will never happen that the traveling factor will be neglected. Finally, even if harvesters would be as fast as T2 and bring in 10% more, you still have to be an idiot to pay 100mil for 5 mining drones. Now I ask you stay out of this thread or I will report you and your posts will be removed nonetheless. This thread is for answering questions related to the guide, or enhance it when clear mistakes were made. The harvester drones section is well explained with mathematical facts, and you just came here wanting to look like Mr Big Guy. If you want to look like Mr Big Guy, write your own guide, or start a new thread in which you can share your opinion and bashing me all you want, I'll gladly ignore it. But this is my thread, I've tried to explain to you and you will not understand. And I owe you absolutely no apology, you were offensive on the first place and it could have been avoided had you shut the hell up or showed respect. Click on my sig to read it !
Aleise Miradi	Posted - 2007.07.04 12:33:00 - [177] Tell if I m wrong, but with the new mining upgrades (x 1,25), a god mode Hulk could go up to 9 980 m3 per 3 min?... That s great.... yeah... but a god mode Apoc could in theory pull out some 16 377 m3 per 3 min!!! (with 8 MDCMII and 6 mining upgrades) I didn t make the maths to see if the cpu will still be ok, and you have a very nasty problem with your cargobay in the BS, but it would be a hard hit for every exhumer pilot ... ergo .. exhumers need more low slots
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.04 13:30:00 - [178] Originally by: Aleise Miradi Tell if I m wrong, but with the new mining upgrades (x 1,25), a god mode Hulk could go up to 9 980 m3 per 3 min?... That s great.... yeah... but a god mode Apoc could in theory pull out some 16 377 m3 per 3 min!!! (with 8 MDCMII and 6 mining upgrades) I didn t make the maths to see if the cpu will still be ok, and you have a very nasty problem with your cargobay in the BS, but it would be a hard hit for every exhumer pilot ... ergo .. exhumers need more low slots I guess I don't understand what it is your getting at. MLU gives a 5% bonus, not 25%. Secondly, MDCMII's are used for deep core mining merx (hence why they are called modulated deep core miners). The MDCMII's cycle every three minutes, while miner two's cycle every minute. Hence, miner II's mine 150% more efficiently than MDCMIIs and they don't require expensive crystals. But, if your post is snark then have fun with it =)
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.04 14:57:00 - [179] Originally by: Halada You bit, and I bit back. Forget the rest for a moment. You write a guide, claiming to be the quote-complete-unquote authority on mining. I disagree with your guide. Since your guide relies on the information you possess, I call you ill-informed. Makes sense, right? You write a guide. I claim that guide may be mistaken in two areas you touch on only momentarily--drones and capital ships. You say I live in my mother's basement. Wait, what? Okay, so let's try this again, assuming, in both cases, that the antagonist is incorrect: Person A writes guide->person A is wrong->person A is ill-informed versus Person B disagrees with person A->person B is wrong->person B lives in mother's basement You can't seriously be equating the two progressions, can you? As soon as we figure this out, it'd be my pleasure to finish discussing the relative merits of drones. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:37:00 - [180] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Halada You bit, and I bit back. Forget the rest for a moment. You write a guide, claiming to be the quote-complete-unquote authority on mining. I disagree with your guide. Since your guide relies on the information you possess, I call you ill-informed. Makes sense, right? You write a guide. I claim that guide may be mistaken in two areas you touch on only momentarily--drones and capital ships. You say I live in my mother's basement. Wait, what? Okay, so let's try this again, assuming, in both cases, that the antagonist is incorrect: Person A writes guide->person A is wrong->person A is ill-informed versus Person B disagrees with person A->person B is wrong->person B lives in mother's basement You can't seriously be equating the two progressions, can you? As soon as we figure this out, it'd be my pleasure to finish discussing the relative merits of drones. --P I think you need to get out more and have a social life. You are fixating way too much on a very irrelevant thing. Saying you still live in your mother's basement is my way of calling people like that losers who should move their asses and get a life. By the way you over dramatize things, you sound like someone who takes this game too seriously, and who might fit in my above description. If you took so much offense, either it's true, or you are so offended that a normal human could make the mistake of generalize that you cannot sleep without waiting for a response hoping you can shut me up with an dramatic analysis of every word I wrote. Which is it? I stand behind my guide and I'm proud of it, but it's not perfect as it is mentioned in the guide itself. The point on harvesters and capital ships falls a lot in a matter of opinion, although my opinion is backed by some good mathematical facts. Therefore it's not a matter of misinformation but rather what you make of it. It's my guide, so I wrote what I think backed by GOOD SENSE and maths. You practically insulted me because 1 page out of the 50 you disagree with. You COULD have said ''I think the writer is mistaking about ...''. Calling me mis-informed is insulting and uncalled for. You were an obnoxious ass and I am being the same to you. Now it's your last warning, if you don't drop the matter in this thread, there will be consequences. I ask one last time politely and respectfully. Thank you. Click on my sig to read it !

Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:55:00 - [181] Originally by: Pilk Person B disagrees with person A->person B is wrong->person B lives in mother's basement You can't seriously be equating the two progressions, can you? Well, to be honest, you came out of the door flaming away. You disagree with two points, points I might add which are extremely marginal at best and affect an extremely small portion of the entire mining community, and you go on how his original draft had errors. That said, his guide is largely written for the solo miner. At least, that is how I read it. I think you have a viable argument for using a carrier as a mining platform in the squadron support roll only. I don't think Halada has said anywhere in his guide that he prefers a command ship over a carrier for that roll. In an earlier post, you mentioned how the carrier was filling that roll while others were in Hulks. You did not make the claim that everyone in this gang was in a carrier nor did you claim that everyone should have been in a carrier. To add to this, I would go so far to say as it makes good sense to use the carrier for the squadron support roll in 0.0 space. But, in secured space solo mining with an alt or two or a wingman? If you want to create an argument and refute some portion of the dialog then there must be context for that argument, otherwise the argument makes no sense. As far as mining drones, sure your mathematically correct that if you mine the 15km roids and drone the ones closer than 3.5K you will most likely be more efficient than the T2 counterparts. But, this will require the miner to move their ship fairly often. Maybe Halada's guide needs an addendum here to account for those who have the dedication to meticulously watch their lasers, move their ship and generally not take many breaks. If I was to watch my mining lasers that closely for several hours straight every day, well, I wouldn't. Maybe I'm lazy, but I dare say most people do not have that kind of dedication. They watch youtube videos, movies, listen to music, talk on the phone, etc. Moreover, not watching your lasers every second means you are bound to occasionally lose drones. Am I doing it wrong? Sure. Do I care? Not really. The only way to tell if Halada is correct or you are correct would be take random samplings of people with T2 and harvesters and compile a rigorous statistical analysis to see who is more productive. Ok, now all of that said. It's just a guide. Meaning it just guides you. Presumably people will work out their own nitches and their own methods of doing things. It's not a rule book. No one is going to care, other then your pocketbook and sanity, if you maximize efficiency or not. So long as the facts are straight and it is not editorial than so what. Yes, I will grant you he does make some editorial comments that should probably removed, or at least notify the reader when he is being editorial, but the vast majority of the time his guide is fact filled. Take your carrier quibble. That is a highly specialized role in an extremely advanced ship that most people (those who are in the market for guides) will not pilot for years to come, especially if they are focusing on industry skills. Is it worthy of mention in the guide? Sure. Probably in the section that talks about gang bonuses and such. Otherwise, well, not so much.
Aleise Miradi	Posted - 2007.07.04 18:49:00 - [182] Originally by: Etruscus Originally by: Aleise Miradi Tell if I m wrong, but with the new mining upgrades (x 1,25), a god mode Hulk could go up to 9 980 m3 per 3 min?... That s great.... yeah... but a god mode Apoc could in theory pull out some 16 377 m3 per 3 min!!! (with 8 MDCMII and 6 mining upgrades) I didn t make the maths to see if the cpu will still be ok, and you have a very nasty problem with your cargobay in the BS, but it would be a hard hit for every exhumer pilot ... ergo .. exhumers need more low slots I guess I don't understand what it is your getting at. MLU gives a 5% bonus, not 25%. Secondly, MDCMII's are used for deep core mining merx (hence why they are called modulated deep core miners). The MDCMII's cycle every three minutes, while miner two's cycle every minute. Hence, miner II's mine 150% more efficiently than MDCMIIs and they don't require expensive crystals. But, if your post is snark then have fun with it =) there are new MLU in game and the best one is: * Aoede Mining Upgrade - 25% bonus, 6% cpu penalty Crystals are not expensive, but that s not the question here. Even if you use Miners II, with a BS you should still get some 14 038 m3 per 3 minutes and thats nearly 4 000 m3 more per cycle then with a maxed hulk...
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.04 20:16:00 - [183] Originally by: Aleise Miradi Originally by: Etruscus Originally by: Aleise Miradi Tell if I m wrong, but with the new mining upgrades (x 1,25), a god mode Hulk could go up to 9 980 m3 per 3 min?... That s great.... yeah... but a god mode Apoc could in theory pull out some 16 377 m3 per 3 min!!! (with 8 MDCMII and 6 mining upgrades) I didn t make the maths to see if the cpu will still be ok, and you have a very nasty problem with your cargobay in the BS, but it would be a hard hit for every exhumer pilot ... ergo .. exhumers need more low slots I guess I don't understand what it is your getting at. MLU gives a 5% bonus, not 25%. Secondly, MDCMII's are used for deep core mining merx (hence why they are called modulated deep core miners). The MDCMII's cycle every three minutes, while miner two's cycle every minute. Hence, miner II's mine 150% more efficiently than MDCMIIs and they don't require expensive crystals. But, if your post is snark then have fun with it =) there are new MLU in game and the best one is: * Aoede Mining Upgrade - 25% bonus, 6% cpu penalty Crystals are not expensive, but that s not the question here. Even if you use Miners II, with a BS you should still get some 14 038 m3 per 3 minutes and thats nearly 4 000 m3 more per cycle then with a maxed hulk... year your right. That's interesting. I only see one of the second best ones on contract at the moment though, for a brisk 750M.
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.07.05 00:16:00 - [184] OK, to put this drone argument to bed once and for all. Let's say we want to know the point, regardless of cost, at which T2 drones start to become more efficient. How would we do that? Well, when their respective production functions are equal to each other, we can assume that T2's start to become more efficient. For those who do not wish to read the following mathematical proof, that range is exactly 3750 and does not account for acceleration time. The following assumes skill 5 in the relevant areas. The production function for a drone is the amount harvested multiplied by the quantity [ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/t})] 3600 is the number of seconds in an hour, X is the number of trips per hour, D is the distance traveled and T is the speed at which the drone travels. We desire to know D and know T for both equations, so we set both of these equations equal to each other. 62.5* [ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/500})] = 75*[ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/250})] And we move everything around and we get the following relationship: 3375000+450D = 4050000 +270D 180D = 675000 or D = 3750. Feel free to check it.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.05 02:27:00 - [185] Originally by: Etruscus stuff I don't have room to quote A very well-thought-out post. I could take issue with a couple of your characterizations, but I'll let them slide in the interest of improving the guide rather than rehashing arguments. Frankly, the entire point of all this, originally, was that carriers are viable gang-support and mining platforms for 0.0 and low-sec mining operations. If anything, my argument has been somewhat weakened by recent changes, most notably the drop in price of Hulks--time was, the argument was even more absurd, because you actually lost MORE isk from losing a Hulk than from losing a carrier. Ah, for the pre-invention silliness! At any rate, a carrier/mothership is, bar none, the best gang-link platform you can possibly bring to bear on an unsuspecting bunch of rocks floating in space. If we can depart from both sides--the "noob-pwning" and "mom's basement" bull** (Halada), and the "ill-informed" accusations (hi, mom!)--long enough to agree or disagree on that, I think that'd be a good spot to continue from, no? --P Kosh*: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.05 02:32:00 - [186] Originally by: Etruscus OK, to put this drone argument to bed once and for all. Let's say we want to know the point, regardless of cost, at which T2 drones start to become more efficient. How would we do that? Well, when their respective production functions are equal to each other, we can assume that T2's start to become more efficient. For those who do not wish to read the following mathematical proof, that range is exactly 3750 and does not account for acceleration time. The following assumes skill 5 in the relevant areas. The production function for a drone is the amount harvested multiplied by the quantity [ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/t})] 3600 is the number of seconds in an hour, X is the number of trips per hour, D is the distance traveled and T is the speed at which the drone travels. We desire to know D and know T for both equations, so we set both of these equations equal to each other. 62.5* [ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/500})] = 75[ 3600 / (60X + 2X{D/250})] And we move everything around and we get the following relationship: 3375000+450D = 4050000 +270D 180D = 675000 or D = 3750. Feel free to check it. That may have been the most-painful way I have ever seen to work that out. Seriously. Ow. I mean, kudos and all, but... ow. Oh, and you forgot to take the Drone Navigation skill and ore size into account. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*
Drellik Tune	Posted - 2007.07.05 15:10:00 - [187] First off, Halada, I would like to say very nice guide! I especially enjoyed the comparisons of ore and prices.. I have pretty much been on my own in this game for the better part of a year since the blokes that joined with me have moved on, so some of the acronyms you use, I still have trouble with. For instance, on page 48, you have a covetor/retriever mining setup. In the low slot, thre is a item called a PDU2. The closest thing I can find is Power Diagnostic System II. Is this what the item should be? Again, thanks for the guide.. VERY Helpful!
Skystar Gallente Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:57:00 - [188] Welcome back mate ... if you need help with some details, you know where to find me And to all criticasters ... shut up or make your own guide instead of trashing a usefull guide for people who want to get into mining /me cheers for Halada -------------------------------------------- Whom the gods love, dies young!
Inani Breuneeri Amarr Total Industri and War Solutions	Posted - 2007.07.06 11:51:00 - [189] First of all... Welcome back. Being new to this game wasn't easy, but your guide made it alot easier for me. Needless to say, i'm ectatic that my favorite mining guide will continue to recieve updates. Thanks for all your hard work, I really appreciate it.
Halada Caldari State of Shock	Posted - 2007.07.07 11:43:00 - [190] @Etruscus - Thank you for adding yet another mathematical proof. The guide explained in words what you just calculated, but it seems people need proofs in number (that they probably cannot even understand) to convince them. With your permission I will add it to the drone's section to avoid other debates in the likes our little friend started. @Skystar - I love you mate @Drellik Tune - Once, Power Diagnostic System were called Power Diagnostic Unit. Although the name changed, the acronym remained over time. So yes, a PDU2 is the module you mentionned ! Thanks to everyone else for your warm welcome, and the numerous eve-mails as well.. it feels good to be back :) Click on my sig to read it !

Suncats Shadow Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.07.08 18:14:00 - [191] Major congrats on the update. I had a bunch of copies of the older one and now I can have a great shinny new PDF version. I am reading it over now, just to check out all the new updates, changes, etc. Being one of those that paid the 450mil for a Hulk back in the (we are over charging you because we can) days; and I have been happy with is since. @Drellik Tune, send me an eve mail or chat me up in game. We are always looking for new corpies and myself and several others are always getting together for MMO's Again, grats on another assume guild and welcome back. cheers
Free Thinker	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:54:00 - [192] I'm a little confused about the Mammoth cargohold calculation. Halada said the Mammoth can fit 16,686 m3 of stuff with 4 expanded cargohold I and 4 GSC's. But these are my calculations: 5625 * 1.175 * 1.175 * 1.175 * 1.175 = 10,721 m3 So you cannot even fit 4 GSC's in there. The best you can do is 3 GSC's, giving another 2700 m3 of space. Can someone explain please?
Gan Dalf Tangled Web	Posted - 2007.07.09 13:43:00 - [193] Originally by: Etruscus Edited by: Etruscus on 02/07/2007 16:37:15 I got in an argument with someone yesterday about ice-mining yields. They insisted that the Hulk, "mined four more units of ice" per hour than the next best miner. This after I recommended to someone the best miner for ice is the Mack. And much to my own chagrin, I was incorrect. Unfortunately, the guide is now out of date in that regard, and so here is an addendum to the ice mining yield sections. Most people already know this, but for the sake of being accurate, here is the data: Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk/// 50.05703112 /// 16.68567704 Covetor/// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack/// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 The Hulk is 33 percent more productive than the Covetor and the Mack is 20.8% more productive than the Covetor. The Hulk is 10% more productive than the Mack. Edit: I forgot to mention, this assumes using tech II lasers all level 5 skills. Firstly great guide Halada. What fittings/skills did you use on the Hulk to get the cycle time of approx 215secs Etrusus? I ask as my wreck has a cycle time of 287.67secs with T2 Ice Harvesters, 2x IHU 1's in the lows and maxed Exhumer skills. Are your figures based on a pair of Ingenii upgrades in the lows?
trirok	Posted - 2007.07.10 01:22:00 - [194] In response to your "capital ships get out mined by a retriever" comment, I present you this: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,11189.new.html#new A wyvern with three drone mining rigs (2 T2, 1 T1), mining mindlink implant, gang mod (with squad present) could theoretically out-mine a hulk (disregarding travel time). A waste of money imo, yes, but also rather funny.
cerona	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:55:00 - [195] Originally by: Free Thinker I'm a little confused about the Mammoth cargohold calculation. Halada said the Mammoth can fit 16,686 m3 of stuff with 4 expanded cargohold I and 4 GSC's. But these are my calculations: 5625 * 1.175 * 1.175 * 1.175 * 1.175 = 10,721 m3 So you cannot even fit 4 GSC's in there. The best you can do is 3 GSC's, giving another 2700 m3 of space. Can someone explain please? I think you forgot the 20% bonus for being @ Minimatar Industrial 4, which should bring the cargohold up to 12,866 m3. Though I could be mistaken on that.
Bowling Green	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:35:00 - [196] Gan Dalf, I am also interested in which mines ice better ... the Hulk or the Mack. Hopefully Etruscus will reply.
Elementatia	Posted - 2007.07.10 15:57:00 - [197] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 03/07/2007 16:22:59 COMING SOON So the whole T20 story put to rest, my anger aside, my finals are over... time to go back to EVE. /quote Welcome Back Halada ! It¦s great that you join us again !
Halada Caldari State of Shock	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:23:00 - [198] Originally by: trirok In response to your "capital ships get out mined by a retriever" comment, I present you this: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,11189.new.html#new A wyvern with three drone mining rigs (2 T2, 1 T1), mining mindlink implant, gang mod (with squad present) could theoretically out-mine a hulk (disregarding travel time). A waste of money imo, yes, but also rather funny. Isn't a Wyvern a mothership? As for the Hulk I think the Hulk is still the better miner for Ice with the new bonus but I'll see on that Click on my sig to read it !
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.11 09:29:00 - [199] Originally by: trirok In response to your "capital ships get out mined by a retriever" comment, I present you this: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,11189.new.html#new A wyvern with three drone mining rigs (2 T2, 1 T1), mining mindlink implant, gang mod (with squad present) could theoretically out-mine a hulk (disregarding travel time). A waste of money imo, yes, but also rather funny. I already did those numbers way back here. Halada is content to "pwn noobs" who dare to challenge her about capital-ship mining. Meanwhile, I'm content to mine nearly about as much as a Covetor, with about 150x as many hitpoints and literally infinite* more ability to defend Hulks mining alongside me, should enemies appear. But, apparently, that makes me a "little friend". --P : Since a BC running a tank and a command link probably doesn't have enough slots and fittings left over to be truly combat-capable at all, and certainly can't fit capital remote reps like a carrier can. Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:45:00 - [200] lol thanks for the laugh mate Click on my sig to read it !

Mattif2k3 Gallente R.H. Umbrella Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.11 14:14:00 - [201] Edited by: Mattif2k3 on 11/07/2007 14:16:30 Edited by: Mattif2k3 on 11/07/2007 14:16:04 i just got one question 4 u, halada: when will the next version be reday? and welcome back /edit: which new bonus at the hulk i hate to be at work
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:56:00 - [202] First, thank you all for the numerous welcome back eve mails I received, it's touching, and it's so nice to be back, I'm reminded of why I did that guide on the first place already :) The new version will see the light when it's done, quite simply. To make sure I can respect my word, I'd say definitely before Christmas 2007 As for the Hulks bonus, it how has a bonus to ice mining, which was silently added and not applicable when 2.0.1 was written. There are more details a few posts north of here ! Click on my sig to read it !
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:57:00 - [203] @Pilk - When I wrote that guide, the first draft, it was simply ideas I had in my mind that I put into a Word document for myself. Then I thought well, why not make it more comprehensible and share it since it's already all typed out. After all, when I started playing almost two years ago, the community was smaller, and I remember how the guys on the help channel, New Citizen Q&A, and Eve University were so helpful. Not only was EVE an awesome spacesim, but the people were genuinely nice. It was clear EVE was aimed at a much mature audience than say WoW. At 19 I was one of the youngest of my corp (STK Scientific). And this is the main inspiration that pushed me to do it - to give back what others had given me. It didn't take long before the game grew more and more popular. At the time 20K player at once seemed an impossible thought. But the more popular it got, the more idiots there were. The forums started getting flooded with "First!" posts, insults, ridiculous flame wars. I never was a big forum warrior, but every time I came here it seemed there were more immature pestilence ruining it for everyone. It looked like a plague... so I mostly still stay away from the forums today. Just before the whole T20 incident erupted, that was about 2 months after I started medschool, it was clear I would not have the time to play anymore, so I finished the second version I had started. It took me more than 100 hours, but I hate letting unfinished things go, and I thought, it will help many. The whole T20 incident disgusted me to my very core, I had already lost all interest in the game after ASCN dissolved. I thought people like SirMolle and his flaming goons were so pathetic it truly and deeply saddened me. So I posted the guide and left. In-between medschool starting getting harder and harder. I worked 40 hours a week as a freelancer webmaster to pay rent, tuition and everything else, on top of that I had hospital rotations and lectures, and all the studying. Something I discovered about people (in this case dealing with patients) in those long hours of learning to become a doctor, is that there will always be that obnoxious ***** or that obnoxious *, being impolite, rude and uncooperative with nurses and doctors. They think we owe them everything, they think their status as a patient makes them a king or a queen. We all wish we could send them back home, because they are so hated and annoying, not just to the staff, but the other patients around, ruining the atmosphere with their bad mood and manners... but alas we must deal with them nonetheless. You, sir, remind me of those rare exceptions where patients come in and we wish they never had come. You came here, in a thread about a long piece of literature that I wrote for the community, to give back what I received in the past, ridiculing and insulting a part of my guide because you disagreed with it. You came here with no regards for the long hours of work behind it*, thinking you knew better and that it gave you the right to say what you wanted, even if it meant insulting me. You came in even thinking I owed explanations to some of my sentences. Click on my sig to read it !*
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:58:00 - [204] Edited by: Halada on 11/07/2007 15:58:01 (continued...) In all my life, I have learned that 95% of the people who act like this are people who have no idea what the meaning of the word sacrifice or compromise is. Could you have said what you said differently, in a respectful manner, and have transmitted the same message? Yes you could have. Do you even know there is a way to say things that retain their meaning, but remain respectful? The reason I compared you to someone still living in his motherÆs basement at 25 years old is because I think those people are losers. They are lazy and unthankful people thinking we owe them the World. They have never given an effort for someone else without hoping for something in return. Your attitude reminded me exactly of that, or like those patients we something receive and that we all hate. Why do I even take the time to write all that? Because I seriously think people should be told clearly what is wrong. Some understand only the ôSTFUö language, but there is still a tiny ray of hope within me that believes human beings are capable of understanding their mistakes if they are shown their incorrect ways. I came back after a six months break from EVE, just after I finished writing my finals, thinking yeah, IÆll have a few hours per week to relax now and enjoy that great game with its great community again. Then I read your post à the MINUTE I read it you lost all my respect, if only by your attitude and your words. I think you are a prime example of that is wrong with this game at the moment, and even in the World today. Hypocrites and egocentric people who hover with their ego over what they think is the World, when in fact they hover over their pathetic little persona. It is so frustrating when I work 20 hours shift, and I do my very best to make a patient comfortable, and they will still find a way to ***** about something. The same for you Pilk û there is a fine line between suggesting ameliorations, or criticizing something, and insulting and ridiculing to make your point. And you crossed it, without probably noticing it. Which is the whole point of this long rant. I already spend enough energy dealing with people like you at the hospital, I do not wish to do the same when I come to play EVE, which is something I want to do to enjoy myself, relax and have fun. But as always, there is always a pestilence somewhere that tries to ruin it. If you want to hate me, ridicule or insult me, then please go ahead, but somewhere else. Not in my guideÆs thread. Not here. Is that too much to ask? I hope not. Click on my sig to read it !
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.11 20:29:00 - [205] The issue is, having read your guide, you struck me as the same sort of person you now characterize me as. Such passages as, "Nobody (by that I mean sane people) will ever convince me or anyone else that a carrier is a good mining platform." and another comment, since removed, about how you "pwned a newbie" or somesuch when he dared to actually follow your suggestion: "a well constructed post, which (sic) hard, proved (sic) and accurate mathematical facts, which is the only way to compare yields and efficiency in terms of ISK/hour." which is blatantly contrary to your earlier statement that you are unwilling to change your mind, anyway. Really, the entire capital mining section is littered with, "stupid" "for ChristÆs sake" "but I hope you die" "you do not have permission to speak to me ever again." "Nobody (by that I mean sane people)" "people werenÆt reasonable" "only thinking about their e-peen" "you will keep living in your little e-peen world and eventually suffer the consequences" Basically, you take a needlessly hostile tack against those wishing to use capital ships to mine. I don't think anybody is trying to use a carrier to solo-mine. But you keep referencing using it as a tank, you even reference using it as a gang link platform. But instead of mining with it (and keep in mind you're the one (rightly) arguing for the purchase of 200-million-isk 5% mining amount implants on the theory that you should squeeze out every last drop of efficiency), you want it to have fighters deployed? Indeed, you suggest delegating fighters to Hulks. Please honor my word as a longtime carrier pilot that that tactic will accomplish nothing against 90% of the opponents you will face in 0.0. Even if you choose not to do so, surely there's no point in sitting there with fighters out, making no isk (and, if we are to believe your statements about the inevitability of losing drones, actually losing isk by losing fighters every so often), when you could have been making isk with that character. The issue, at its heart, was started by your needlessly-hostile attitude towards those who were suggesting that mining in capital ships may be appropriate. To your credit, you removed the most-egregious such statement (the "pwned noob"), but when I wrote my response, it was still in the guide. Let's reset to zero and see if we can't have an honest, reasonable discussion about the best way to improve your guide's capital-mining section, rather than one about our individual motivations and shortcomings. I screwed up, and assumed bad faith based on the best data I had at the time. I'm sorry. Can we move on now to the part where we build a comprehensive and complete guide to mining, including the capital aspects? I'd very much like to work with you to do just that. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 20:38:00 - [206] Edited by: Halada on 11/07/2007 20:38:49 Using a carrier as a mining platform becomes a personal choice at the end, I illustrated my opinion since this is my own guide. This opinion was backed up with facts, and it was written after I received 104 eve-mails asking me what I thought about using a carrier. Now how, but what I thought. So I obliged provided a section about it. The facts are still true - you could have interpreted them yourself. The whole point of this thread Pilk is to make a complete mining guide, and we were doing just that before I read your post. While I was gone though I did not see you run to the pedestal to take over and provide updates yourself though, it was simply easier to bash me. If you felt the guide was so unworthy, and you knew the author had left, why did you not volunteer to write a better one? Maybe you did not expect me to see your post or come back, but I did. You bit, I bit back, and you didn't like it. Fine enough, but if you say I am like the people I described in my two last posts, and are using one page out of the 50 in the guide, and out of god knows how many eve-mails and posts I have written, it's seriously taking it out of context and isn't appropriate at all. Your post felt somewhat of an apology, so I will accept it in the hope that kind of talk will never arise in this thread again. Click on my sig to read it !
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.12 18:45:00 - [207] Originally by: Halada Using a carrier as a mining platform becomes a personal choice at the end, I illustrated my opinion since this is my own guide. This opinion was backed up with facts, and it was written after I received 104 eve-mails asking me what I thought about using a carrier. Now how, but what I thought. So I obliged provided a section about it. The facts are still true - you could have interpreted them yourself. Fine, but the issues (with the guide, not with these forum posts) are twofold: the tone of your comments (dismissive and, frankly, insulting), and your conclusions, which I feel are flatly wrong, based even on nothing more than the rest of the section, as it exists now. Originally by: Halada The whole point of this thread Pilk is to make a complete mining guide, and we were doing just that before I read your post. While I was gone though I did not see you run to the pedestal to take over and provide updates yourself though, it was simply easier to bash me. If you felt the guide was so unworthy, and you knew the author had left, why did you not volunteer to write a better one? Because I've literally never flown an Exhumer in my entire life. Because I have no interest in dealing with a bunch of whiny carebears who, after cheerfully reading through a 40-odd-page guide, CBA reading 7 pages of forum posts, and instead come on here to ask, for the third or fourth time, whether a Hulk now outmines a Mackinaw for ice. You signed up for the job. It's impressive, and I'm happy that you did. But two of my good friends are volunteer firefighters who risk their life to save my ass if my house is burning down. They don't complain; if they did, we'd all look at them incredulously and ask them why they were doing it. Their motivations are deeper than the fleeting moment of an accolade. So, when they screw up--when they sidestep or forget a safety procedure, for instance--and their fire chief or the city council comes down hard on them, they take it on the chin and vow to improve. You're a volunteer, and I respect your contributions, while pointing out some flaws in them. That doesn't mean I'm obligated to volunteer in your place, and it doesn't mean you're obligated to give a ** about what I say. Originally by:** Halada (context) Okay, but it's one of only four areas I really have any expertise in: capitals, drones, tanking, and, these days, warfare links. It's why there's a table of contents, after all--I skipped to the parts that were appropriate to my situation, and was aghast to discover your flawed numbers, faulty logic, and condescending and demeaning tone. Originally by: Halada Your post felt somewhat of an apology, so I will accept it in the hope that kind of talk will never arise in this thread again. Well, I was hoping for an apology for all the vitriol, carefully-formatted and published in your guide, towards those who were contemplating capital mining, which struck me as far more insulting than my comments, as it's akin to you publishing a book entitled, "Pilk's an idiot," where I'm writing an Op-Ed column in my local newspaper; that is, your views both have an implied finality and aura of careful consideration to them that makes them far more damaging, in my eyes, than the comparatively-flippant comments I make here. Up to you if you want to provide that, I suppose. I still want to fix the capital mining information, even if you have no interest in stepping up to the plate for your own faults, as I have for mine. So, erm... does this mean you want me to just rewrite the entire section and submit that here? What direction do you want to take the collaboration, exactly? Do you have a replacement for that section already lined up, that you'd like me to edit? Let me know how I can help you. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:36:00 - [208] I agree some sections need fixing, so the capital ship section will be completely re-written to be more objective as you pointed out. I still firmly believe the carrier is a support ship that can do very little alone however, but it's clear carriers are becoming more accessible now, and even a pair of them could do well with some AFK mining with little risks ... But if I was in the shoes of someone really willing to make money out of mining, I'd mine until I have enough to buy a Hulk pilot, and have him mine, with the carrier tanking the belt, with half its fighters out assigned to the Hulk, the Hulk within its remote repairer range and the Hulk already locked so if it gets called first by a small hit'n'run pirates group, the Hulk gets repaired and can lock the targets faster than the carrier and send the fighters in (that is, if the attackers have the balls to take on the Hulk. Hell, I remember once, I was tanking angels in my Hulk, and a Taranis popped in the belt and started orbiting at blaster's range. I was tanking both Angels and Taranis ... ROFL With the Hulk's drop in price, buying a 10milSP mining char to go with it is a serious and very good investment. When I quit EVE I had sold all my chars, but with the proper toon army, you can be self sufficient with multiple accounts and characters with GTC, and it doesn't cost a dime. Click on my sig to read it !
Zion Zan'threxian	Posted - 2007.07.13 07:51:00 - [209] I notice a mistake (if not already brought to your attention) Monoclinic is listed as the high yield bistot and triclinic as the mid yield. I think this is backwards. (Page 7)
Mattif2k3 Gallente R.H. Umbrella Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:40:00 - [210] Edited by: Mattif2k3 on 13/07/2007 10:40:38 Originally by: Zion Zan'threxian I notice a mistake (if not already brought to your attention) Monoclinic is listed as the high yield bistot and triclinic as the mid yield. I think this is backwards. nope it is alright. mono is 10% (see also here).

Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:49:00 - [211] Originally by: Halada But if I was in the shoes of someone really willing to make money out of mining, I'd mine until I have enough to buy a Hulk pilot, and have him mine, with the carrier tanking the belt, with half its fighters out assigned to the Hulk, the Hulk within its remote repairer range and the Hulk already locked so if it gets called first by a small hit'n'run pirates group, the Hulk gets repaired and can lock the targets faster than the carrier and send the fighters in (that is, if the attackers have the balls to take on the Hulk. That's not a valid PoV. Basically, you're saying that the reason not to mine with a carrier is that you should mine with a Hulk. Okay, fine. But you're putting the carrier in the belt alongside it. Still fine. But then you make the carrier idle there, accomplishing nothing, when it could be adding to your mining output via something a little less indirect than gang links? Why? Also, a Hulk has a targeting range of 30.9375 km with long-range targeting V and a carrier pilot with Information Warfare V. That means basically the only things it can target that five fighters will actually kill are Minmatar recons (it can't kill the Amarr or Gallente ones, which'll have dampeners fit, or the Caldari ones, which can trivially jam its 8 sensor strength with a single multispectral) and t1 cruisers. And without a warp disruptor fit, none of those will actually die. And furthermore, by assigning fighters to the Hulk, you're preventing it from using its mining drones. So, basically, it's a terrible, terrible idea. Please stop advocating it. Originally by: Halada Hell, I remember once, I was tanking angels in my Hulk, and a Taranis popped in the belt and started orbiting at blaster's range. I was tanking both Angels and Taranis ... ROFL That was a phenomenally bad 'ranis fitting and/or pilot, then. Still impressive that you could tank it, mind you, but hardly typical. Originally by: Halada With the Hulk's drop in price, buying a 10milSP mining char to go with it is a serious and very good investment. Okay, sure, but that has nothing to do with carriers. More CHARACTERS are always better, and, of course, there's little reason for more than one of your mining squad to be in a carrier, so that yields the logical conclusion that additional characters should be in Hulks. You're not really arguing against mining in a carrier here, you're arguing against SOLO-mining in a carrier, which is stupid because solo-mining in anything is stupid. I'd have a hard time deciding which is less-intelligent, though--putting an Exhumer with 200m+ in faction and deadspace fittings on the line, or a carrier with probably about the same. On the one hand, the carrier can defend itself. On the other--and this is really the only downside--it takes longer to warp out with it when you see Local spike. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.14 08:49:00 - [212] So tell me how you would use your carrier then... Click on my sig to read it !
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.14 21:11:00 - [213] Originally by: Halada So tell me how you would use your carrier then... Carrier + 1-2 Hulks: Carrier tanks belt, runs mining link, mines with drones, keeps 'ceptors/recons/other PvP ships (one for each Hulk) in ship bay. Uses its corp hangar as a 10,000 m3 GSC while jetcan mining, less some room for spare t2 crystals for the Hulks. Uses Mining Drone II's (carriers are slow to get on top of 'roids, so the speed difference between m2's and Harvies really matters). Hulks mine (standard jetcan mining); if hostiles enter the system, they board their PvP ship (even just a tackling t1 frig, if they're specialized solely into mining) from the carrier's ship bay, which automatically stores their Hulk inside the carrier. From there, carrier assigns fighters, launches lighter drones, or jumps out, depending on your level of combat readiness. More than 2 Hulks: Due to restrictions on the size of the carrier's ship bay, you can't fit more than 2 Hulks inside. As such, this calls for a POS in system with spare ships. When Local goes up, Hulks and carrier alike head to the POS, and the Hulks switch into PvP ships. It's now up to them if they want to head out and engage the targets, with assigned-fighter support from the carrier, or just sit, safe and invulnerable, inside the POS. Ideally, in this situation, you'd bring out your Hulk pilots in ECM ships, so you can jam the tacklers in case the hostiles managed to lock down one of your Hulks or your carrier. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.14 23:01:00 - [214] You got me to think... now that freighter can load stuff at POS... and the rigs... I like your ideas... I'll come back later on that! Click on my sig to read it !
Rollotamasi	Posted - 2007.07.20 15:07:00 - [215] When I try to open the guide I get a error stating that adobe reader could not open the file because it may either be a not recognized type or it is damaged. Any one have any ideas?
Hardwar	Posted - 2007.07.21 11:28:00 - [216] Originally by: Rollotamasi When I try to open the guide I get a error stating that adobe reader could not open the file because it may either be a not recognized type or it is damaged. Any one have any ideas? Try downloading the guide again. Looks like it got corrupted in your first attempt.
Reemul	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:56:00 - [217] I get the same thing, tried from both mirrors and renamed file and tried to save to different locations. Anyone else confirm it is working?
EvolGrinZ	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:19:00 - [218] Edited by: EvolGrinZ on 21/07/2007 22:19:31 can't get the PDF file working either :(
Evol GrinZ Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:25:00 - [219] I got it working, if you left click the 1st link it will open the PDF file. Then click the save button. After that you can open the PDF file.
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:35:00 - [220] Eve-File no longer allows direct saving and the mirror is down ... lolerzs for eve file you need to click to open in browser then save... stupid if you ask me. Ill change it soon! Click on my sig to read it !

Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:54:00 - [221] THE NEW MINING UPGRADES ARE DISABLED AND DO NOT WORK They will be fixed in the next static content patch rev 2.2. DO NOT BUY THEM! Click on my sig to read it !
Suncats Shadow Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.07.24 17:00:00 - [222] !!!!!!!! UGH I wish I had seen this a couple of days ago. I just picked two of the Erin ones up (130 mil) and tried them out. Then I noticed that my yield had gone down Well I guess I am back to the standard mining laser ones until this gets fixed. Great guide and thanks for the updates as always Halada.
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.25 14:39:00 - [223] And the reason they're not working is also very important... They will be nerfed - those Erin's will only give you an additional 1% - it will be a long time until they're paid off.
Kirjava Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.26 00:58:00 - [224] Originally by: Halada THE NEW MINING UPGRADES ARE DISABLED AND DO NOT WORK They will be fixed in the next static content patch rev 2.2. DO NOT BUY THEM! It burns our eyes! Halada - thankyou very much for the guide it was a great read (even for a near perf miner like me) and made me start an alt to go mining in a bantam for old times sake. One thing thoug - in the guide it says that the top (crokite) couldent drop to near the bottom - which makes me suspect CCP nerfed it so badly (scordite more proffitable if I remember) when Drone regions came just to spite you for making a guide infinitly better then what they could provide. Last thing is the calculations - Zynd is worth half what you have there (2200 v 3900) and so makes high ends change positions quite a bit. Thanks again.
Ai Nanaa	Posted - 2007.07.28 05:03:00 - [225] As crystals get damaged, at what point do you recommend trashing them and getting new ones?
DTMF	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:17:00 - [226] Just use the crystals tell they pop. And on the topic of Harvey drones, I don't like them cause they take up the full cov/hulk drone bay at 10m3 each. And what is with the 1 hp they could atleast make them comparable to medium drones in hp. When NPCs spawn they always go after my drones.
Cursor Miner	Posted - 2007.07.29 02:14:00 - [227] Edited by: Cursor Miner on 29/07/2007 02:14:19 Originally by: Marcus Tedric And the reason they're not working is also very important... They will be nerfed - those Erin's will only give you an additional 1% - it will be a long time until they're paid off. Absolutely right - Nerf is already on test server :( screenshot
Gajanina	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:56:00 - [228] This are not still working the one namend for Ice harvesting works Originally by: Alatari Originally by: Halada I'm assuming no changes were made since I left the game though as I have catch-up to do. There's a set of named Mining Laser Upgrades now: * Mining Laser Upgrade - 5% bonus, 10% cpu penalty * Erin Mining Upgrade - 10% bonnus, 9% cpu penalty * Elara Mining Upgrade - 15% bonus, 8% cpu penalty * Carpo Mining Upgrade - 20% bonus, 7% cpu penalty * Aoede Mining Upgrade - 25% bonus, 6% cpu penalty
Stefx Gallente Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:05:00 - [229] Originally by: Rubiks Cube I just started EVE, but alot of poeple talk about having 2 accounts for mining. They use 1 to haule/protect and the other to mine. But reading this guide I see no indication of using this stratagy. Can someone please explain to me what would be the better way of mining? 2 accounts, or 1? Would be cool with a "2 account mining guide"... I mine with two acounts, in high sec. My first acount is a miner. My second is a miner/hauler. My 2nd mines with me until it's time to pick up jetcans, gets his itty5 hauller (38k m3) hauls them, then comes back in its hulk and fills cans with me. Rinse and repeat.
Stefx Gallente Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:56:00 - [230] Edited by: Stefx on 30/07/2007 16:59:38 Mission roid fields I like to mine in mission roid fields. They fairly safe, require little attention and have nice juicy roids. I often milk the L1 mission "Unwanted military presence (plag/veld/pyro)" I was wondering if others here also do that, and which missions you like to milk? Please, no "I did this mission xxxxx and I saw roids in it". I'd rather see a list of missions that you actively milk-mine frequently.

Stefx Gallente Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:57:00 - [231] Edited by: Stefx on 30/07/2007 16:57:47
Nagasarete Daphne	Posted - 2007.07.30 17:32:00 - [232] Minor error in the guide: Page 23, 6th paragraph: "...so donÆt be stupid and use the T1 versions until you can use crystals." should be "...so donÆt be stupid and use the T2 versions until you can use crystals."
KineticOne	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:24:00 - [233] Thnx m8t great guide :)
Nidda Coldbrew	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:03:00 - [234] Great guide. Question: The guide says that the Mining Foreman Mindlink has been fixed. CCP's Known Issues page says "The Mining Foreman Mindlink mining bonus is not working". Which is correct? Thanks
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:43:00 - [235] Originally by: DTMF And on the topic of Harvey drones, I don't like them cause they take up the full cov/hulk drone bay at 10m3 each. And what is with the 1 hp they could atleast make them comparable to medium drones in hp. When NPCs spawn they always go after my drones. Don't blow up the rats. You're supposed to tank them. Then you never lose drones. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Arash Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.01 09:59:00 - [236] Originally by: Nidda Coldbrew Great guide. Question: The guide says that the Mining Foreman Mindlink has been fixed. CCP's Known Issues page says "The Mining Foreman Mindlink mining bonus is not working". Which is correct? Thanks Now tell me this ain't true cause im halfway through the training of Mining Director V already for it..
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:08:00 - [237] It works exactly as expeced Click on my sig to read it !
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:30:00 - [238] I can attest that they work as well. Our Support Pilot for mining ops has it.
MrDetermination Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:49:00 - [239] That's great news about the Mindlink actually working. I'm almost there. Halada, I made a small donation in appreciation of your efforts a week or so ago. Thanks for the effort. Question: Can you please explain how the time bonus -> actual yield bonus works in a little more detail or slightly different way. It isn't clicking for me. I'm talking about how the % time cycle bonus = a higher % yield than that per hr.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:07:00 - [240] Edited by: Pilk on 02/08/2007 20:07:36 Originally by: MrDetermination That's great news about the Mindlink actually working. I'm almost there. Halada, I made a small donation in appreciation of your efforts a week or so ago. Thanks for the effort. Question: Can you please explain how the time bonus -> actual yield bonus works in a little more detail or slightly different way. It isn't clicking for me. I'm talking about how the % time cycle bonus = a higher % yield than that per hr. Sure. Imagine a 50% cycle time bonus versus a 50% yield bonus, and a laser with a 60-second cycle that mines 100 units of ore. With a cycle time bonus, you mine 100 units every 30 seconds (60 seconds-50%), or 200 units in a minute. With a yield bonus, you mine 150 (100+50%) units every minute. It's the difference between changing the denominator and the numerator in a fraction. Yield is amount/cycle. Expressing the bonus as .2, .25, .5, etc., (bonus * amount)/cycle is (bonus) more yield. OTOH, amount/(cycle * (1-bonus)) is 1/(1-bonus) more yield (1.25x for .2, 2x for .5, 4x for .75, etc., etc.). Make sense now? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

MrDetermination Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:12:00 - [241] Perfect sense, thanks.
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2007.08.03 23:05:00 - [242] Halada, whats the ETA on the new Version of the guide?
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.08.05 08:56:00 - [243] Originally by: Gan Dalf Originally by: Etruscus Edited by: Etruscus on 02/07/2007 16:37:15 I got in an argument with someone yesterday about ice-mining yields. They insisted that the Hulk, "mined four more units of ice" per hour than the next best miner. This after I recommended to someone the best miner for ice is the Mack. And much to my own chagrin, I was incorrect. Unfortunately, the guide is now out of date in that regard, and so here is an addendum to the ice mining yield sections. Most people already know this, but for the sake of being accurate, here is the data: Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk/// 50.05703112 /// 16.68567704 Covetor/// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack/// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 The Hulk is 33 percent more productive than the Covetor and the Mack is 20.8% more productive than the Covetor. The Hulk is 10% more productive than the Mack. Edit: I forgot to mention, this assumes using tech II lasers all level 5 skills. Firstly great guide Halada. What fittings/skills did you use on the Hulk to get the cycle time of approx 215secs Etrusus? I ask as my wreck has a cycle time of 287.67secs with T2 Ice Harvesters, 2x IHU 1's in the lows and maxed Exhumer skills. Are your figures based on a pair of Ingenii upgrades in the lows? 287.67 works out to be the cycle time for a covetor. The Exhumers get a .05 / level bonus. If you (or anyone else) wants the spreadsheet and sees an error, please feel free to correct me. I apologize for the delay in answering, I was away to Israel for a month taking a language course.
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 12:57:00 - [244] I cannot say now... I just moved back to Canada and have a LOT to do at the moment, I hope I can release it this month. Click on my sig to read it !
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:26:00 - [245] Originally by: Halada I cannot say now... I just moved back to Canada and have a LOT to do at the moment, I hope I can release it this month. Where in Canada, Maybe we could meet up and have a pint? I'm in Ontario about 2 hours East of Toronto
Sgt Peppers	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:43:00 - [246] This is my first non-tech support issue post and my second post all-together. Just wanted to say this is an awesome guide and it has helped me a lot! I have sent it to everyone I know to help them as well. I really hope there will be another release, perhaps with some things about gas mining and price updates.
Max Essen	Posted - 2007.08.18 10:00:00 - [247] New player and mining focused. Freekin awsome guide! My thanks.
wonton hussie	Posted - 2007.08.18 10:12:00 - [248] Great work on the guide halada, has been so much use so far. Can i ask if there is going to be a ice type map akin to the one you have for ores in section 1.1?
Zanaris	Posted - 2007.08.19 08:46:00 - [249] Awesome guide! :D 2 Questions though, couldn't find an answer in your guide. Cargo Capacity. When the yield per min or 3 mins is far above the cargo capacity, do you mean that i should shift ore every 20-30 sec? Or is there another trick to this? My Scythe has 440 cargo and i yield 433. Any upgrade from skills, implants or items would break my 60 sec transfer to jetison. From calculations in quickfit i see that this is the case with almost whatever ship you have. The higher amount of cargo a ship used for mining has, its yield is increased to match and then some. Pirates. I am a carebear, i suffer from paranoia and i do have bad experiences... ;) So far ive lost only 2 ships. Once while traveling through 0.3 (podded before the warplag ended ) in a cruiser. Second was in 0.5 when i was mining omber by some stupid pirate. Right now im located in 0.8 where my corps office is. It's only me and a friend in the corp and we don't often play at the same hours - so no group mining with escort for me. How safe is 0.8 from pirates? I find myself spending 99% in station messing with quickfit and evemoon to maximize my yield .. and defenses. Yes, i'm quite paranoid. I went to a belt in the system, another ship (Moa) came, my heart began thumping and i warped out asap. Will concorde come and help out in the belts? I was thinking of equipping a medium smartbomb, a tracking disruptor, a warp core stabilizer, a medium vamp and a shield booster. A cap booster would be needed too, to restore the cap after turning the miners off and the other stuff on. If the pirate uses a Warp Disruptor i am safe due to the stabilizer. If he uses a Scrambler, it will stop me from 9000 (tech II) or down to 7500 (tech I). Below 4000 my smartbomb will get sort of nasty. Since i have a tracking disruptor, the pirate must be able to shoot from 6000m or futher, otherwise withing range for SB. This gives my a dangerous range between 6000m and 7500-9000. Any ideas? Not the right thread for this question, but its sort of related, and you are good at explaining things ;) Am i just over-paranoid and should just forget about the risk of pirates? I make about 2.5mill per hour and the ships worth, items included, is about 4mill. However, i only have 1.5mill atm, so if i loose the ship first few hours, im lost Btw, rats doesnt worry me that much. I let my cruiser tank with shields while my 5m3 drone is killing them softly. I also have a second account where the pilot has a Hoarder equiped with cargoexpanders and a miner II for that little extra yield (combined with mining foreman IV). That way i can continue to mine without interuption .. if it only weren't for those pirates (or the disillusioned fear of). Im not online 24/7, but a few days ago i saw in trade that someone got fragged while mining, and it happened tonight too to a Retriever. Of course my reaction was to reinforce the door and mount up a portal autocannon right infront of it, while chewing boosters to stay awake!
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.08.20 17:42:00 - [250] Originally by: Zanaris Edited by: Zanaris on 20/08/2007 00:22:46 Edited by: Zanaris on 19/08/2007 09:03:26 Awesome guide! :D 2 Questions though, couldn't find an answer in your guide. Cargo Capacity. When the yield per min or 3 mins is far above the cargo capacity, do you mean that i should shift ore every 20-30 sec? Or is there another trick to this? My Scythe has 440 cargo and i yield 433. Any upgrade from skills, implants or items would break my 60 sec transfer to jetison. From calculations in quickfit i see that this is the case with almost whatever ship you have. The higher amount of cargo a ship used for mining has, its yield is increased to match and then some. Yes, you need to move your ore as often as it takes. You are incorrect about "this is the case with almost whatever ship you have" as this is not the case with the barges. I am not certain, but I do not believe it is possible to mine 8000m3 in three minutes and even if that was the case, a rig could help that. Right now, I mine just over half that in three minutes with a 4th level gang bonus and level 5 exh skill. As for the second portion, "pirates" aren't your real threat anyway. player pirates are. They will happily steal your ore, regardless. Drones can handle anything until you get to 0.0 NPC wise. Player pirates can not engage you in a .8, unless you try and take back ore from a can they created - in which case they will likely hold you for ransom.

Moridrex	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:45:00 - [251] Originally by: Halada I cannot say now... I just moved back to Canada and have a LOT to do at the moment, I hope I can release it this month. If you would like any help proofreading or such please let me know. I am a HUGE fan of your guide, and have taken much of the data and worked on some of my own spreadsheets which are unfortunately too rough for public release. A request or perhaps something I can build and submit, I'd like to see graphs/charts demonstrating efficiency of mining gangs. Let's say someone builds a second account and trains the alt for command ship/mining link/etc...I believe I've determined this is NOT as efficient as simply running a second hulk and using the standard 10% gang bonus (you gain say 50k omber/hr on ONE hulk with the command ship, vs. 150k/200k depending on your skills for the second hulk...)...for two accts, not worth it, BUT, if you are running a gang, there will be a number of pilots where you "break even" if using a command link vs. additional hulk, and then the extra defense and such is worth it. I'll try and run the numbers later and post them. Also looking forward to perhaps advanced mining/corp mining strategies using carriers (as support ships! not to mine!) and possible low sec/0.0 mining fleet setups with defense squads and such. Cheers! Great guide! Moridrex
Zanaris	Posted - 2007.08.22 02:00:00 - [252] Thanks Etruscus for the reply! I only checked up to retriever when comparing m3/min with cargo. To Halada: Would it be possible if you added to the end of the guide, a summary of skills affecting your mining and the way they should be added and multiplied? I can probably figure out this myself (although i will probably miss something), but i think it can be good for new users making their first excel sheet. Something like (nr of miners)(mining lvl)(astrogeology lvl)(ship bonus)(mining upgrades)^bonus*crystal etc! :)
PorlyP Gallente Revenent Defence Corperation	Posted - 2007.08.23 12:42:00 - [253] Zanaris: As it goes, I'm putting together something just like that, and uses the Ore Table to work out how much isk percan you can earn. As of yet, I've not finished it, but it's getting there :) I thought it was the least I could do after getting into mining after seeing this guide!
Explorers Ascendant	Posted - 2007.08.24 23:38:00 - [254] Edited by: Explorers Ascendant on 24/08/2007 23:38:58 Do the -20% cycle duration and the 25% ice and mining upgrades work? And I was to believe that the Mack is better for mining ice than the Hulk. Is that correct? I have had so many people saying 50 diffrent things I am very confused anyone give a definitive answer please?
Mattif2k3 Gallente R.H. Umbrella Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:30:00 - [255] Originally by: Explorers Ascendant Edited by: Explorers Ascendant on 24/08/2007 23:38:58 Do the -20% cycle duration and the 25% ice and mining upgrades work? And I was to believe that the Mack is better for mining ice than the Hulk. Is that correct? I have had so many people saying 50 diffrent things I am very confused anyone give a definitive answer please? well. first: the mining upgrades for ice are working properly. the hulk vs. macki question: i calculated it once and the macki was still better then the hulk. i will try to calc it again and post it here. probably someone can check my numbers
Etrusan	Posted - 2007.08.28 22:51:00 - [256] Originally by: Mattif2k3 it looks like i got a calculating problem somehow. i got other numbers. lets see the skills / items: 0,75 due to Ice mining 5 0,95^2 due to 2 mining upgrades 500 sec for ice harvaster 2 hulk: 0,85 due to hulk bonus and exhumer 5 => 500 sec * 0,75 * 0,85 * 0,95^2 = 287,67 sec => 3600 / 287,67 = 12,5 cycles / h => 12,5 cycles /h * 3 Ice / cycle = 37,5 ice / h mackinaw: 1,25 due mackinaw malus 0,75 due to mackinaw bonus and exhumer 5 => 500 sec * 1,25 * 0,75 * 0,75 * 0,95^2 = 317,28 sec => 3600 / 317,28 = 11,34 cycles / h => 11,34 cycles / h * 4 Ice / cycle = 45,38 Ice / h macki is leadin. well...it must be a misscalculation somewhere. otherwise the macki sill is the better ice miner Your right. You have a miscalculation. Hulk gets an additional barge bonus. So go ahead and multiply another 0,85 in your hulk equation, and you will find that you get a different value. That said, I am fairly certain the ice bonus for the Hulk used to be .05. It is now .03 and this changes things. With this alteration the Mack is now the better Ice miner... again, by one unit per hour. Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk /// 44.16796864 /// 14.72265621 Covetor /// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack /// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 With the uber mods, this gap increases to 2.8.
Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:29:00 - [257] Edited by: Mattif2k3 on 29/08/2007 11:29:18 Originally by: Etrusan Your right. You have a miscalculation. Hulk gets an additional barge bonus. So go ahead and multiply another 0,85 in your hulk equation, and you will find that you get a different value. That said, I am fairly certain the ice bonus for the Hulk used to be .05. It is now .03 and this changes things. With this alteration the Mack is now the better Ice miner... again, by one unit per hour. Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk /// 44.16796864 /// 14.72265621 Covetor /// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack /// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 With the uber mods, this gap increases to 2.8. Ok. i will have to check the bonus in the hulk describtion. i cannot look at the items at work :( but with a maxed out gang bonus and a yeti imp the gap should be even bigger
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.03 05:34:00 - [258] Now that I almost done, I can give an estimate release date about version 2.2 of the guide. It will be approximately 65 pages and should be released no later than September 16th 2007. Click on my sig to read it !
Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.03 11:14:00 - [259] great news :)
Etrusan	Posted - 2007.09.03 20:57:00 - [260] Originally by: Mattif2k3 Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk /// 44.16796864 /// 14.72265621 Covetor /// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Mack /// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 With the uber mods, this gap increases to 2.8. Ok. i will have to check the bonus in the hulk describtion. i cannot look at the items at work :( but with a maxed out gang bonus and a yeti imp the gap should be even bigger /EDIT: is the barge bonus a hidden one? "Mining Barge Skill Bonus: Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level. 7.5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level and 3% reduction in Ice Harvester duration" no info about the 3% ice harvesting cycle time bonus :( Yes, I stand corrected. This should be the correct data in that case. Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk /// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Covetor /// 31.91135734 /// 10.63711911 Mack /// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039

Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 07:36:00 - [261] Originally by: Etrusan Yes, I stand corrected. This should be the correct data in that case. Ship /// yield per hour /// cycles per hour Hulk /// 37.54277334 /// 12.51425778 Covetor /// 31.91135734 /// 10.63711911 Mack /// 45.38504155 /// 11.34626039 Ok. Great news i finally can calculate it :) Greetz, Mattif2k3, little math freak ;)
Enviri Nakun	Posted - 2007.09.04 08:22:00 - [262] I guess a question that I've been having is that when mining in my original Frigate in .8/.7 it made sense to dump ore into a pod and come back later with my industrial since it could carry something like 8 times the load, but what about when I move up to the ore barges? Some of them can hold 4k on its own while my industrial only holds 10k. Especially when discussing 0 sec mining are you generally warping in, tanking up while stripping what you can then warping the heck back to a station? It seems that this was never really covered in the guide as you moved on to more advanced mining techniques, the storage/transport of ore in unsafe sectors. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:21:00 - [263] Originally by: Enviri Nakun Edited by: Enviri Nakun on 04/09/2007 08:25:30 I guess a question that I've been having is that when mining in my original Frigate in .8/.7 it made sense to dump ore into a pod and come back later with my industrial since it could carry something like 8 times the load, but what about when I move up to the ore barges? Some of them can hold 4k on its own while my industrial only holds 10k. Especially when discussing 0 sec mining are you generally warping in, tanking up while stripping what you can then warping the heck back to a station? It seems that this was never really covered in the guide as you moved on to more advanced mining techniques, the storage/transport of ore in unsafe sectors. Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Just to throw some more numbers into what I'm looking at, this would mean that basically I would warp in, pick a 'roid and fill my hold in ~4 minutes then warp back out. I guess it makes sense when dealing with nasty rats, but just want to make sure that I'm not missing something easy. at first. welcome miner ;) the mining barge question: when u r mining, it is always usefull and more effective then u use a can. BUT there are several things to consider. in high-sec (1.0-0.5) u got ore thiefs. this kind of species is a horror for every miner. don't wait too long. fill in 2-3 of ur hauler capacity in a can and fly the ore to the station / pos. in low-sec (0.4-0.1) there are pirates. they r just looking for miner / misson runner to shoot them out of their ships. ALWAYS WATCH THE LOCAL and got to the station as soon as an unknown char enters the system! i personaly don't mine there. it's a to big risk. in no-sec (0.0) u got other problems. in the most areas u got a chat channel where hostiles and pirates got reported. thus you know where a thread is and can fly to a station / pos in time. but as in 0.0 u have to WATCH THE LOCAL. secondly the rats are BIG and dangerous. i already lost several hulks to them due my tanking skills are not very good and i was mining when i was still asleep ;) you will need another char / player to tank the rats (accept u got very good tanking skills and faction stuff fitted). but accept the rat prolem u got time. i was mining 9-10 cans and then start haul. but its supoptimal for me. meanwhile i got 3 chars: one for tanking and mining link, one for mining and the last one for hauling. hope this helps a bit greetz, mattif
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.09.07 13:19:00 - [264] Hope the new version will have the Roqual in it Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.09.08 11:40:00 - [265] Originally by: General Apocalypse Hope the new version will have the Roqual in it Sure it will not be included as far as it isn't mining ship, can't equip any miners/strips/harvesters and can only use drones which is just unprofitable comparing to any small barge. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.09 23:40:00 - [266] The Rorqual will be fully covered over three pages with screenshots and explanations of its modules and strenghts/weaknesses. Click on my sig to read it !
Battle Shortswitch	Posted - 2007.09.10 01:36:00 - [267] Halada, Will the new guide cover the effects on the 'beancounter' H__ implants? I recently experimented with them and noted that the calculations simply did not add up (yield mutator of 1% was having nearly half the expected impact on yield in my tests). It may also be useful to include a refining yield table that covers 32% (apparently the base yield of stations in 0.0 space). Thanks, and congratulations on your excellent guide. Battle
Kale Palodo	Posted - 2007.09.12 09:59:00 - [268] I have a couple refine formula questions. I have read the decimals are dropped when the refine is calculated. I am writing up a little program for me to use so I want to get the formulas right. Does this look correct for the refine formula? total ore amount/amount for prefect refine=total amount of refines yield% * perfect yield = total minerals with decimal place dropped (100%-tax%) * total minerals = total minerals after tax with decimal dropped total minerals-total amount of refines The station tax is figured as 5-([standing]0.75). How many decimal places does the tax go? Thanks Kale
moschka	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:44:00 - [269] I have read ur "Bibel" 6 months ago and start working on skill for it. One thing i dont really understand is, if i dont want a BC to mine along with a hulk or more,what is best hulkskill to get then? Lets say 2 hulks in a gang, what skill and/or inplants and mods can i use to get most of it? Why? Because i have a rokh, and 1 hulk, and to emty cargo on rokh all the time, even with cargorigs on it, its boring, soo, i figured i could use 2 hulks insted, maxed with cargo rigs, using no hauler, just 2 hulks. Anyone feel free to answer , please.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2007.09.12 22:49:00 - [270] Originally by: Thaibog I have to say this is a very impressive and complete guide to mining. Great Job Halada. Nice sig m8. But incase you would like to know the flag is being displayed backwards. But then the media always get stuff backwards and out of shape lol. Anyways. When you look at the flag in a draped fashion like it is the stars should always be on the upper left corner. A side from that one flaw. That is a pretty good sig!

Eeonsita	Posted - 2007.09.13 03:22:00 - [271] a very very nice guide there, Halada, as a new player this has greatly improved my understanding of mining, but i am surprised that you do not discuss of how i should find good mining spots. it seems that almost every belt i visit, everything is mined bare, and there are tons of cans all over the place, or there are other people there. and if it isn't, then there are rats there and i always have trouble dispatching them while outfitted for mining.
Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.13 08:41:00 - [272] Originally by: Eeonsita a very very nice guide there, Halada, as a new player this has greatly improved my understanding of mining, but i am surprised that you do not discuss of how i should find good mining spots. it seems that almost every belt i visit, everything is mined bare, and there are tons of cans all over the place, or there are other people there. and if it isn't, then there are rats there and i always have trouble dispatching them while outfitted for mining. well, it is very easy to find a mining spot. first of all you have to look in the map for a nice system with sec status of 0,7. there you can find the nice kernite or omber roids and the rats are not a big problem. this system should be a bit outside the central area thus it shouldn't be to crowdy. it schould have a 50% refining station up to 1 jump away where you can haul the lovely ore and refine it ;) once you found such a system you can set up your base there and start mining ;) another tip. the roids are respawning every monday and friday after downtime. a lot of ppl are running on these days into the belts and mine all omber / kernite. these are the days you should be in the belts, too ;)
Moridrex	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:59:00 - [273] Originally by: Eeonsita a very very nice guide there, Halada, as a new player this has greatly improved my understanding of mining, but i am surprised that you do not discuss of how i should find good mining spots. it seems that almost every belt i visit, everything is mined bare, and there are tons of cans all over the place, or there are other people there. and if it isn't, then there are rats there and i always have trouble dispatching them while outfitted for mining. Dispatching rats is easy. If you're using an osprey, fit a missile launcher in the extra high slot. If you're using a barge or exhumer, Light Combat Drones do the trick REALLY well...
Eeonsita	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:48:00 - [274] but how could i ever hope to tank them in a mining barge =( or forget the mining barge, im just in a frigate right now, in the bantam
Moridrex	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:36:00 - [275] Originally by: Eeonsita but how could i ever hope to tank them in a mining barge =( or forget the mining barge, im just in a frigate right now, in the bantam I can't remember if a Bantam can fit a light drone or not... When the rats show up, move to a different belt until they get bored and leave. Alternatively, mine Veldspar or Scordite in 1.0 security, until you can train and afford an Osprey. That gives you a good mining platform with good defenses, and you can put either mining or defense drones in... Don't worry too much about tanking in the barge/exhumers...in 0.5 security and above they just aren't a problem, so long as you have some light drones aboard...alternatively you can also train a bit of shield skills to increase your shield strength on these ships.
Kale Palodo	Posted - 2007.09.14 10:22:00 - [276] Hala can you tell me if the yield percentage is rounded to 2 decimal places or 3? ie. 95.777 or 95.78. Thanks
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.16 04:33:00 - [277] Letting you know there might be a delay in this guide ... Click on my sig to read it !
Mattif2k3 Gallente LE Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:39:00 - [278] Originally by: Halada Letting you know there might be a delay in this guide ... take ur time. it shall be as "complete" as it can be. if you need a QA on the numbers, contact me ingame.
Moridrex	Posted - 2007.09.17 15:17:00 - [279] Originally by: Halada Letting you know there might be a delay in this guide ... I'd be happy to help edit, update tables as necessary, etc...let me know in game if you'd like.
Nether Bound	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:04:00 - [280] I sent email asking you why on page 20 the math went like this 601.21.21.05^4 = 105.01974 m^3/cycle Should it be 601.21.21.20 = 103.68 m^3/cycle Why would you multiply the MLU's not add up the percents? 0.05+0.05+0.05+0.05=.20 instead of 1.051.051.05*1.05 very good guide. Thank you for putting it together I learned alot.

Jonathan Calvert Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:46:00 - [281] Originally by: Eeonsita a very very nice guide there, Halada, as a new player this has greatly improved my understanding of mining, but i am surprised that you do not discuss of how i should find good mining spots. it seems that almost every belt i visit, everything is mined bare, and there are tons of cans all over the place, or there are other people there. and if it isn't, then there are rats there and i always have trouble dispatching them while outfitted for mining. FYI, my trick is to pick the nearest .5 space, and intel all the belts for the best ore. If theyre bare, find another .5 space. You just have to keep moving. Eagerly awaiting the next version of this guide to take into acct the other mining tweaks. :)
Violet Wisp	Posted - 2007.09.21 19:18:00 - [282] First I want to say amazing. Might be one of the best educational tools I have ever seen for a MMORPG. Question though (and I apologize if covered in the prior 10 pages) at the beginning when you are runing a bantam back and forth until you get a cruiser and hauler, could a Cormorant be more productive? I know it doesn't have a ship mining bonus, but as I came out of character creation I had the electronics skills IV for its CPU to be at 258 and mining V so could use T2 miners. If I trained frigate and destroyer (which would go fast), would I be more productive in the destroyer than the bantam while I train and save for the cruiser/hauler?
Moridrex	Posted - 2007.09.22 15:03:00 - [283] Originally by: Violet Wisp First I want to say amazing. Might be one of the best educational tools I have ever seen for a MMORPG. Question though (and I apologize if covered in the prior 10 pages) at the beginning when you are runing a bantam back and forth until you get a cruiser and hauler, could a Cormorant be more productive? I know it doesn't have a ship mining bonus, but as I came out of character creation I had the electronics skills IV for its CPU to be at 258 and mining V so could use T2 miners. If I trained frigate and destroyer (which would go fast), would I be more productive in the destroyer than the bantam while I train and save for the cruiser/hauler? Some do use the cormy for mining; usually tho on mining-centric characters it is skipped to keep the training up for the Osprey next, and then a retriever...you could do it tho if you already have the skills. It's just extra time before you can fly the big miners...
Laci Lethal Agentrunner Concord Incinerator	Posted - 2007.09.23 18:24:00 - [284] Edited by: Laci on 23/09/2007 18:24:41 Hi, first of all i will Congratulate for this GREAT guide! i wanna just let u know: in ice mining u can fit 2 ihu t2 for a Mackinaw when u have a cpu implant in your head at slot 6. it works ;) Tested :) BTW Can i ask, when arrives the New version? U said sept 16 and told us a late, can we "get" an approx release date please? U was did great work! Thanks.
Matti Harkonnen	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:20:00 - [285] Originally by: Nether Bound I sent email asking you why on page 20 the math went like this 601.21.21.05^4 = 105.01974 m^3/cycle Should it be 601.21.21.20 = 103.68 m^3/cycle Why would you multiply the MLU's not add up the percents? 0.05+0.05+0.05+0.05=.20 instead of 1.051.051.05*1.05 very good guide. Thank you for putting it together I learned alot. well. that is very easy. game mechanics work like this ;) it was an old bug in an older version of the guide. multiplying is correct. :)
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:39:00 - [286] I've been set back in the writing... I had a last-minute offer to move in another faculty 5 hours from where I lived, relocation proved long and difficult. I'm all settled in now. This past week-end I'd say I wrote quite a lot. However, I am still not satisfied with the Rorqual and the Role of other Capitals section... otherwise the rest is pretty much ready! I'd rather not say when the new version comes out but I'm hoping within 15 days, hopefully sooner... I also thank you for proposing to help me, but I do things a certain way and I'm afraid this is a solo process. Thanks for your patience :) Click on my sig to read it !
Touched darkness Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.25 11:51:00 - [287] Thank you very much Halada for your guide.It really helped me a lot and i`m looking forward to next version. Hopefully soon
Tassemet Gallente Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:20:00 - [288] Hadala, can you post what builds to use in empire with a Hulk? you mention a 0.0 build, but im in going into 0.0. Also, can you update the prices on hulks and the time it takes to mine to earn a profit? Hulks cost 115mil ish if you make 100mil an hour (which is still possible) then, i would take like an hour and a half. Thanks, keep the guides comming!, Tassemet
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.27 02:16:00 - [289] a hundred mil an hour? not anymore. with a seriously pimped out hulk setup + gang bonuses and drones, you might pull 60 an hour, but that's stretching it. maybe with the rorq's gang bonuses might bump it up another few mil, but that's pretty much it. as far as the thrifty setup goes, the skiff is quite nice. with a pimped out setup (and morphite selling for 10k a unit), you can pull in about as much as a hulk (quadrupled yield bonus at exhumers V helps quite a bit). just don't expect to solo-tank (a t2 barge that once sold for 12 mil can only do so much)
Evil J	Posted - 2007.09.28 20:32:00 - [290] Why you sad "not any more"? Why is now like 60mil/h max you can mine? Whats changed since last Halada guide where he calculates over 100mil/h?

Babe Toy	Posted - 2007.09.30 20:09:00 - [291] Originally by: Evil J Why you sad "not any more"? Why is now like 60mil/h max you can mine? Whats changed since last Halada guide where he calculates over 100mil/h? Mineral prices are now lower on hi end ore, but there are new modules and new ships that combine up nicely.
Evil J	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:56:00 - [292] new ships like..?
Matti Harkonnen	Posted - 2007.10.01 15:01:00 - [293] rorqual. the industrial cap
Ed Pios Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.10.03 11:19:00 - [294] Omg this guide is great This really made my day! ----- No sig yet. Sorry. - Ed.
Draeus	Posted - 2007.10.03 16:28:00 - [295] This is a really nice guide. My only question is one of progression. Basically, I am a little confused as to the order of skill training you recommend. Also, I'm a little fuzzy on some of the earlier ships you would recommend. If you had to start from scratch (a scary prospect I realize) what order would you train which skills?
Matti Harkonnen	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:02:00 - [296] first: we are waiting for the new verion of the guide, which should be published "soon" second: the skill order highly depends on the location you are mining. when you talking about empire it is really easy: first you have to get a mining cruiser (ospray f.e.) then mining laser t2, then barge(retriever) and strip miner t1, then strip miner t2 and mining crystals t1, then exhumer at 3 (hulk min), then mining crystals t2 these skills should be skilled to minimum for use of the current equipment: drones & mining upgrades but ts just MY point of few. of course every player got a different point of few ;)
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.07 02:17:00 - [297] Edited by: Halada on 07/10/2007 02:18:31 The Complete Miner's Guide 2.2 now available ! New version is now released and available via front page. As stated, there might be some formatting or typos around. I didn't have the time to go over it a few dozen times, and since I have exams coming up, I wanted to publish what I consider 99% of the finished guide. The remaining 1% is polishing which isn't too urgent. Besides, you can all stop asking me when it comes out ! I will be silently (as in update the pdf online without saying) correct typos and other minor mistakes overtime. If any major changes appear, you will be notified via the carebear news center (2nd post). Comments and feedbacks are welcome, as always. Enjoy PS. All links work again, so the PDF is once more fully interactive. Click on my sig to read it !
Myacese	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:57:00 - [298] Sorry Halada, yes the additions u provided are really good... But i dont know... the thing is... the guide was GREAT and now its GREATER THAN EVER... thanx a lot.
Dilllinja	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:59:00 - [299] Thanks for making this guide. Download link is not working to me. Can someone it reload on freeshare. Thanks in advance.
Milleniumbug Gallente Old Timers Guild Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:15:00 - [300] Section 4.2.1 you still have the Domi in the comparison instead of the Rokh. Love the new guide. The section on the Roq is very informative.

Babe Toy	Posted - 2007.10.08 23:32:00 - [301] Edited by: Babe Toy on 08/10/2007 23:32:34 the maxed numbers including Rorqual bonuses with all skills at max, mining best ISK profit ore, with all bonuses active and all maxed out best mods or t2 mining bonuses, are quiet a bit off the correct total maxed number and gives, what I believe is a wrong viewpoint to the maxed out idea of good mode. If I am not mistaken, I think you missed it by some 19% in total. Plz correct me if I am wrong.
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.09 01:55:00 - [302] The 63mil /hour is without rorqual and new upgrades Click on my sig to read it !
Babe Toy	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:33:00 - [303] Can we have an update then if possible with everything on V as in a full possible current, God+ mode, drones and all? One thought that came to mind to simplify calculations and understanding of them, was to put a text description for calculation numbers, this to not have to read the whole guide from top down, to make sure “what numbers you are taking from where” to calculate out all and every bonuses that affect a certain scenario.
Yuki Amaterasu	Posted - 2007.10.09 17:01:00 - [304] \o/ YAY Thanks for the update Halada. It will be put to good use. My alliance looks down upon mining. Hence the alt response.
Mattif2k3 Gallente SteelVipers	Posted - 2007.10.10 09:42:00 - [305] i'm at page 22. until now a masterpiece of work, halada. as usual but meantime i got no time for mining/reading since i am youwhat and we got some "insect problems" in our area i hope tri let me some time to read further
Locin WeEda Gallente Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:04:00 - [306] Nice update. One important omission: the changed gang modules, especially the increased range is very welcome in mining ops. Old name: Mining Foreman Link û Laser Optimization Old function: Decreases mining laser duration New name: Mining Foreman Link û Laser Optimization New function: Decreases mining lasers/ gas harvester and ice harvester duration. Old name: Mining Foreman Link - Ice Harvesting Old function: Decreases ice harvester duration New name: Mining Foreman Link - Harvester Capacitor Efficiency New function: Decreases the capacitor need of mining lasers, gas harvesters and ice harvesters. Old name: The Mining Foreman - Drone Coordination Old function: Did it have a function? New name: Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enchancement New function: Increases the range of the gang's mining lasers, gas harvesters and ice harvesters.
Rykuss	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:28:00 - [307] This is wonderful news! I read the first guide and knew mining was for me, can't wait to delve into the new guide. Thanks for the guide.
Taluno	Posted - 2007.10.14 15:51:00 - [308] Awesome. Halada, I am planning to translate that guide into german. May I publish a german version of your great guide? Of course all credits will be yours (would just adding translation credits). Awaiting your answer.
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.14 16:23:00 - [309] Wow thanks for the gangmods, hadn't even noticed ! And no problem for the translation:) Click on my sig to read it !
Taluno The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2007.10.14 16:43:00 - [310] Great. Expect it until end of the week.

Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:34:00 - [311] I'm currently mining with a Rokh and I noticed you didn't include the Modulated Deep Core Miner II's (not the strip miner variant). Given they mine a base of 120m3 per 180sec cycle, this becomes 210m3 per 180sec cycle with a Tech 2 crystal, which is 70m3 per 60sec cycle compared to 60m3 for a normal miner II. The best they could thus mine with 4 MLU II's would be... 8x210m3 (1680m3 180sec) 1.25 (Mining V) 1.25 (Astrogeology V) *1.36 (4xMLU II's) ---------- 3570m3 per 180sec cycle (1190m3 per 60sec cycle). Just FYI :)
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:30:00 - [312] If you read the guide carefully, I purposefully did not include the the MDCM2 since usually, those who are casual miners won't specialize into crystals and will do the smart thing and move to a covetor as soon as possible. The guide didn't say it was the best you can do in a Rokh, it said it was better than the Apoc for the same variants. Click on my sig to read it !
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2007.10.15 20:48:00 - [313] BTW I just did some math. A Rokh's CPU with Engineering V and a single CPU Enhancer II will give you... 780 * 1.25 * 1.10 = 1072.5 CPU However, even with Mining Upgrades at V, 4 MLU II's will make your Miner II's 80 CPU look like this. 80 * 8 = 640 CPU 640 * 1.09375^4 = 915 CPU The MLU II's themselves are 40 CPU so thats 4 * 40 = 160 CPU So that would make a total of 915 + 160 CPU = 1075 CPU Thats a wee bit more then the Rokh can support, and I can't live without an Ore Scanner (usually 4 or 5 CPU) So would I have to fit the 4th one with an MLU 1 or are there other CPU improvements that could help me so I can fit four MLU II's?
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar The Smithzonian Institute	Posted - 2007.10.17 19:53:00 - [314] Noticed on page 8, it says ice is only available in low sec and 0.0, which is not true.
Darrell Trump	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:01:00 - [315] Say, i didnt notice this mentioned, but, when you have a character with mining foreman skill, does he have to be the gang boss for the group to get the bonus?
Pimpja Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:27:00 - [316] Avalerble <----- ???????
Deuce Airflow	Posted - 2007.10.20 05:32:00 - [317] Err, link is broken. Save as doesn't work either :(
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.20 19:36:00 - [318] works for me! Click on my sig to read it !
Maraq Caldari Radikus Industries	Posted - 2007.10.20 20:36:00 - [319] Great guide! One thing I'd like to note that there are some NPC stations in .5 and lower (I've only gone down to .3 systems) that have a 35% base refine. Might be good to put it in your guide to make sure to check refine yeild if you are looking for a station to ferry ore to when mining in .5 systems and lower.
Darrell Trump	Posted - 2007.10.21 07:07:00 - [320] Originally by: Maraq Great guide! One thing I'd like to note that there are some NPC stations in .5 and lower (I've only gone down to .3 systems) that have a 35% base refine. Might be good to put it in your guide to make sure to check refine yeild if you are looking for a station to ferry ore to when mining in .5 systems and lower. not just in .5 and below, they have some crappy refineries in higher sec space too. you'll see it alot in places with labs and lotsa stations. also, i believe you only get the group bonus from mining foreman if you are in a wing command fleet as the squadron boss, not 'just in a group' as i asked in a post higher up.

Taluno The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:27:00 - [321] As announced a few days ago, here is now a german version of this great mining Guide Klick to download (3.3 MB) Eine umfassende Bergbau Anleitung (Haladas Mining Guide German v2.2) A few notes to this german version - I (Taluno) will not discuss anything about the guide itself. This is Halada's work, I am only a translator. - Feedback about translation or spelling mistakes are - of course - welcome. Contact me ingame -> Taluno - Halada, if you read this... a link to that german version within the top entry of this thread would be great (but's your decision )
SheriffFruitfly Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:18:00 - [322] Wow! Great guide - I'm not even a miner! lol! Wish there was one of those for market trading.
Ulstan Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.24 02:27:00 - [323] Edited by: Ulstan on 24/10/2007 02:28:16 Excellent guide! Is there ever a situation in which having >100% yield is helpful?
Jay Bee Minmatar Redback Industries The Sundering	Posted - 2007.10.25 18:57:00 - [324] Edited by: Jay Bee on 25/10/2007 18:57:52 Bazzin guide, I recommend it to all our new pilots that try mining.
Sun Ying Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:22:00 - [325] i think there is an error in the calculating your yield formula. it's 37.5 instead of 0.375
zorgered	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:24:00 - [326] Is there already an excel document following the Refining table and calculation? If not, I'll make one and try to post it up on here. But if there already is one, please let me know so I don't waste a load of time :P (Don't contact me ingame as this is my posting alt)
Neo Providence	Posted - 2007.10.27 19:53:00 - [327] love the guide, and teh pic looks awesome.
DeAnnais	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:59:00 - [328] Nice Job on the revamped Miners guide.
Sun Ying Caldari Golden Crescent	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:17:00 - [329] the isk/unit and isk/m3 values in section 13.1 for Omber, Kernit, Jaspet, Hermorphite, Hedbergite, Gneiss do not correspond to the value you are using as example (which makes it confusing).
Heyte	Posted - 2007.11.05 20:08:00 - [330] Do leadership skills that you possess (such as mining foreman, director, etc.) apply to you at all times? Or do they only work when in gang? Sorry <--- Noob


Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.11.07 14:06:00 - [331] While the guide is and always has been uber it lacks info about the infamous capital mining ships - eg the Veldnought etc Secure 3rd party service .

Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:31:00 - [332] Originally by: Heyte Do leadership skills that you possess (such as mining foreman, director, etc.) apply to you at all times? Or do they only work when in gang? Gang only.
Algorithmic Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.11.14 22:16:00 - [333] Thanks guys most helpful
Salvis Tallan Gallente The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.17 00:38:00 - [334] The section about Mercoxit is wrong. It says that the modulated deep core strip miner with a tech 2 crystal has a yield of 437.5 (base yield 250). This would mean that the mercoxit crystal has a multiplier of 1.75, like all the other crystals. Problem is that the mercoxit crystal is only 1.375. Source. This seems to have been taken into consideration in the equations at the bottom of the section. Also to note the skiff ship bonus is applied to the crystal modifier itself, although its unclear if that was considered when doing the calculations. Always a fan. ------
Silenciel ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:41:00 - [335] Just THE miner guide. Great work.
Helen coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.27 11:29:00 - [336] Good to see you keep updating and improving this Hal its a fine piece of work. Also love to you for whacking me in the credits. First pod pilot to lose a Mothership in EvE... err woo
Lord Trikke	Posted - 2007.11.28 03:56:00 - [337] Link to the guide is broken won't let me view or save as : (
Rastaline	Posted - 2007.11.28 08:37:00 - [338] Edited by: Rastaline on 28/11/2007 08:38:03 Do i miss any skills or good stuff ? witch improve my mining Hulk Exehumers mining barge Drones mining drone drone interfacing drone navigation drones Industry mining mining upgrade refining refining effency and alle the Difrint ore proccessing skills. Leadership Foreman mining Director witch gives acces for Mining foreman mindlink Sceince astrogeology cybernetics for the mindling and ofc you can train trade and social skills for market effency and standing. i have not taken alle the skills that need to be trained to fly the hulke like sceince, because it dont gives anoy bonus for det mining yield or amount and so on. I just whant to ask, is there any mining skills that i have missed.?. and i am not thinking in ice and merox mining yet. i got my hulk with modulated strip miners 2 in high+ mining crystals tech2 and the 2 tech2 mining laser upgrade. 5 mining drones 1 dont have 2 yet. and i am lige 40days from the mining forman mindlink plz reply fellow miners. (sry for my bad spelling):)
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:46:00 - [339] Suggestion/Request for the Mining Guide, please cover a POS refining section in the mining guide. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. My Top 10 List
Starshift	Posted - 2007.12.07 03:11:00 - [340] Originally by: Alatari * Aoede Mining Upgrade - 25% bonus, 6% cpu penalty Actually, its 9% bonus, 7.5% cpu penalty :)

Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.12.09 16:15:00 - [341] Just another big "Kudos" to Halada for his very excellent work
Rattus Ranjiniae Rat Lovers Anonymous GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.12 00:21:00 - [342] /me buys the OP some alcohol
Sainna Minmatar Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:52:00 - [343] I cant even find the link to get the guide. /me kicks computer. --- Recruitment Thread
Myra Rodan Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.12.13 19:34:00 - [344] FWIW: I mostly run missions, but decided I wanted to at least be competent at mining so I could produce my own ammo if nothing else. Therefore, I set out to get the most bang for the least investment of skill training and equipment. Being as I only fly minmatar right now, my choices were somewhat limited. Here is what I came up with: With just three skills: Mining 5, Astrogeology 4, Mining Upgrades 4 and the following setup on my Maelstrom: -HI- 8x Miner 2 -Med- 3x cap recharger 2 1x large shield booster 2 1x survey scanner 1x whatever -Low- 3x co-processor 2 2x mining laser upgrade 2 -Rigs- 3x ccc - were already there for combat tank everything runs forever, and with decent drone skills it will take care of any rats that show up in empire space. It perhaps isn't the most effective miner, but it serves my purposes well enough, with a friend to haul and refine ore. Selling and delivering all boosters anywhere in Eve. Message me for a quote.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:28:00 - [345] Originally by: Rastaline Do i miss any skills or good stuff ? witch improve my mining Hulk Exhumers mining barge Astrogelolgy Originally by: Rastaline Drones mining drone drone interfacing drone navigation drones Drone rigging and drone mining augmentor. Originally by: Rastaline Leadership Foreman mining Director witch gives acces for Mining foreman mindlink Cybernetic 5 And Highwall HX-2 is a better option. Drop mindlink on the guy in battlecruiser/cammandsheep/rorqual. Originally by: Rastaline astrogeology cybernetics for the mindling Oh, here they are. Originally by: Rastaline and ofc you can train trade and social skills for market effency and standing. i have not taken alle the skills that need to be trained to fly the hulke like sceince, because it dont gives anoy bonus for det mining yield or amount and so on. But you did. :) Originally by: Rastaline i got my hulk with modulated strip miners 2 in high+ mining crystals tech2 and the 2 tech2 mining laser upgrade. 5 mining drones 1 dont have 2 yet.[/i] and i am lige 40days from the mining forman mindlink plz reply fellow miners. Except HX-2 there is also Michi's Excavation Augmentor. Both adds 5%.
KineticOne e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:29:00 - [346] Thnx m8t for a great guide I have used it many times.....
Lighthugger	Posted - 2007.12.19 23:39:00 - [347] Thanks alot for such a thourough overview! As a newb to mining in 0.0 I am interested in the module buildout for a Rohk to do 0.0 mining. Can anyone go through this with me?
Hannibal218	Posted - 2007.12.21 23:40:00 - [348] i've read the mining guide and following through it. i'm 14 days away to finally have a hulk, and using a retriever now. but i've got into a major bummer, i've sold a mixed amount of some 600k omber, silvery and golden and got 38M, thats 82 isk per 1m3, which is very low, i refine 100% and have only 2.5% tax, and due to accounting skill i lose only 0.08% of the deal so no great improvment here. the mining guide talks about milions per hour but i am mining smthing like half of it and i have mining 5, astrogeology 5, mining barge 4 (14 days to 5) i have also sold the isogen i got for 68.25 isk, so even if i whould have sold it for 70 it whouldnt made such a big difference it took me days to mine that much omber and i got only 38M i could have done twice the amount of money doing level 3 missions with my drake am i missing somthing here? coz the mining guide talks about much more isk/m3 for omber at this rate, if i fly a hulk it wil take me 2 months just to get the money back from the investment i am greatly dissapointed for the time that i've lost can some one enlight me ? 10x in advance
sgt carlini	Posted - 2007.12.22 14:46:00 - [349] Edited by: sgt carlini on 22/12/2007 14:46:30 I was wondering. this is about the hulk tank set up. Firstly: is it vital to have an a type booster? i'm not going to be tanking 3 battleships with cruiser escorts as it says in the guide. would a b type do? its 150mil cheaper as well. secondly: does the hulk tank set up include rigs? if so, what are they? if not, will i need them and which ones?
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:35:00 - [350] Originally by: Hannibal218 i've read the mining guide and following through it. i'm 14 days away to finally have a hulk, and using a retriever now. but i've got into a major bummer, i've sold a mixed amount of some 600k omber, silvery and golden and got 38M, thats 82 isk per 1m3, which is very low, i refine 100% and have only 2.5% tax, and due to accounting skill i lose only 0.08% of the deal so no great improvment here. the mining guide talks about milions per hour but i am mining smthing like half of it and i have mining 5, astrogeology 5, mining barge 4 (14 days to 5) i have also sold the isogen i got for 68.25 isk, so even if i whould have sold it for 70 it whouldnt made such a big difference it took me days to mine that much omber and i got only 38M i could have done twice the amount of money doing level 3 missions with my drake am i missing somthing here? coz the mining guide talks about much more isk/m3 for omber at this rate, if i fly a hulk it wil take me 2 months just to get the money back from the investment i am greatly dissapointed for the time that i've lost can some one enlight me ? 10x in advance Are you selling to buy orders? If so thats probably why. Also Retriever sucks. Meet me behind the bushes at midnight! - Cortes

Hannibal218	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:04:00 - [351] I am, and i have realized that its a mistake but where else can i sell my stuff ? retriever sucks and in two weeks i will be able to use a hulk, but even if the hulk mines twice as fast even 2.25 times (with T2 minig crystals) it still not so much money, at this rate of 5M isk per hour it will take me 30 hours just to get the price of the hulk back i whould appriciate your help 10x
Tyr Dominator Amarr Wolf Pack Samurai	Posted - 2007.12.23 17:24:00 - [352] Great Job Halada
RAYNARK	Posted - 2007.12.29 11:22:00 - [353] Edited by: RAYNARK on 29/12/2007 11:22:32 Guys I have been using this guide and have finally got into a Retreiver with 2 strip miner 1's. I have been madly mining sharp crokite and have noticed an increase in mining yeild compared to my previous ship (a brutix with 7 miner 2's). However I can mine 25000m3 in around 45-50 mins... How do u get 30million isk from this per hour? What am I doing wrong? All of the refining calculations I have done suggest around 9million isk. I have a drake which I use for tanking on my second account.
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar The Smithzonian Institute	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:30:00 - [354] Originally by: RAYNARK Edited by: RAYNARK on 29/12/2007 11:22:32 Guys I have been using this guide and have finally got into a Retreiver with 2 strip miner 1's. I have been madly mining sharp crokite and have noticed an increase in mining yeild compared to my previous ship (a brutix with 7 miner 2's). However I can mine 25000m3 in around 45-50 mins... How do u get 30million isk from this per hour? What am I doing wrong? All of the refining calculations I have done suggest around 9million isk. I have a drake which I use for tanking on my second account. The numbers in the guide may be based on different market prices. Seems all minerals have come down in price.
Digit Handscome	Posted - 2007.12.31 01:19:00 - [355] Thanks for the sweet guide! I also wanted to get a clue in here-and you gave it to me! lol Let me fax you a beer
Apricot Weizen	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:32:00 - [356] Awesome work. This helped me stay in the game, nice pathing for the miner career
sgt carlini	Posted - 2008.01.06 14:53:00 - [357] Edited by: sgt carlini on 22/12/2007 14:46:30 I was wondering. this is about the hulk tank set up. Firstly: is it vital to have an a type booster? i'm not going to be tanking 3 battleships with cruiser escorts as it says in the guide. would a b type do? its 150mil cheaper as well. secondly: does the hulk tank set up include rigs? if so, what are they? if not, will i need them and which ones? p.s. i have already posted this and i am sorry for double posting but nobodies answered it i think because it higher up than newer posts.
Kaakao Caldari Insidious Existence	Posted - 2008.01.08 10:57:00 - [358] "Finally there is ice, which is now only available in low-sec and 0.0." Currently mining ice in caldari 0.5 space with my alt. ----
Marshy 3rd	Posted - 2008.01.12 00:51:00 - [359] Ok i dont want to be a downer but in all your calculations i cant work out your equations. Extract: 3.1 Skill System The skill levels in EVE, whatever which skill it is, stack. Concretely, it means the following: using the skill Mining as an example, which gives a 5% bonus to the yield of your mining laser per level, if you trained Mining to level 4, it means you get : 5%4=20% bonus from the skill Mining at level 4. The effect of the different skills you trained though have to be multiplied together. Say you have Astrogeology at level 4 (which also gives a 5% bonus per level to your yield) and Mining at level 4, then your net yield would be: Base laser yield 1.20 * 1.20 = XXX Using T2 Miners wheres does the 1.20 come from sureley this should be 0.20 to represent 20% 1.20 would equal 120%. You may have an explanation for this but i cant work out lol. could you let me know wheather what i say is true or if im talking a load of rubbish lol.
Thurasiz Demir	Posted - 2008.01.12 02:40:00 - [360] Just pure and simple Math. ok, lets say your Base Yield is 100 m¦. If you calculate, as you said, with 0.20 its 100 m¦ * 0.2 = 20 m¦ so as you can see, the 1 is for having your 100 m¦ Baseyield AND your 20 % Bonus, as 100 m¦ * 1.2 = 120 m¦.

Mandrake Knight F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:29:00 - [361] The link is dead. Can someone re-host or toss it on eve-files? ----------------------------- Please excuse me, I need to pew pew.
dev0n Minmatar Underground Project	Posted - 2008.01.17 10:59:00 - [362] Thanks! This helps alot. Great job!
bloods miner	Posted - 2008.02.04 08:14:00 - [363] Don't suppose this is going to be updated any time soon is it? maybe with the ore mining lasers, gang mod changes and maybe the fun yeti implants? How fast can a man mine ice with: exhumers V Ice mining V Mining Upgrades V Cybernetics V Electronics V 'Yeti' BX-2 Mackinaw 2x Ice Harvester IIs 2x Firgoris Ice Mining Upgrade Is And someone tanking for the rats with a Mining Foreman Mindlink and Warfare Link Specialist V running a Mining Foreman Link set for Laser Optimization? Just wondering because that will be my set up next time my lazy arse goes to mine ice.
Neon Virtue Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.02.04 19:32:00 - [364] Very Informative. Big Help in my mining career. This has to be the best guide ever, all the others offer too little info. RisingStar Kyrios
Local Cowboy	Posted - 2008.02.10 06:21:00 - [365] Can we please get a new link. I am a hi-sec miner flying a hulk and i would like to check this out to see what i could be missing out on. thanks
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:42:00 - [366] The link still works fine Click on my sig to read it !
Jurgen Kesker	Posted - 2008.02.12 08:43:00 - [367] There are some problems with the given Retriever setup. First, there is no way you can fit a MLU on a retriever, at least not with a PDU (Why a PDU?, there's power enough). Only with a strong co-processor +skills it works. Second problem is: You don't have enough cargospace to hold 1 cycle of modulated strip miner 2 with t2 crystals. So, you'll need a expanded cargohold, ergo you cannot fit a MLU + CPU. It looks like you suggest to use strip1 miners on a retriever, together with a MLU (if possible) you will get indeed less than 2000m3 / cycle. But before training to a covetor training to a modulated strip 2 with t2 crystals is more profitable. Or do you disagree?
0wen	Posted - 2008.02.13 05:47:00 - [368] Step 1 - Creating a mining character. Surely this information is the first thing someone new to mining would want to know, step one after all is building a character for mining, there seems to be an assumption that the reader knows this already, which of course they probably don't. What attributes are best for building a mining character for the long term? A step by step guide to building a mining character would be ideal - race, stats, etc.
padraig animal Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.13 13:29:00 - [369] Question : the rorqual what is the switch point of using it when it get's really effective I mean how many hulk's/macks ? I heard somewhere the number 7 dropping ,any 1 who has experience whit it . There are enough rorquals in game atm so ,game some numbers ppl : )
Botthkill Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:37:00 - [370] Thanks Halada, for this great Mining Guide! That's a really great tool for the mining noobs like myself BK

Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2008.02.16 23:01:00 - [371] So when is the Guide Being Updated to what the Gang Links are Currently Doing?
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.17 21:57:00 - [372] This summer, at the earliest Click on my sig to read it !
Braaage eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.24 16:24:00 - [373] Edited by: Braaage on 24/02/2008 16:25:24 Halada one of my website visitors pointed out an error in your doc which I will correct on my site Quote: Skills you will need : Mining Barge 3, Industry 5, Astrogeology 5 I will assume here you trained Mining Barge to level 4 (3% bonus to yield per level) even though you only need level 3 to fly the retriever, as every little bits help. I'll also assume you trained Astrogeology to level 5, since it'll be required for the Covetor! While we're at it, since you're serious about mining, you will also have invested the time in training Mining to level 5 as well. Skills you will need is astro L4 to fly the retriever. -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!!
akirahayase Caldari The Dutchies	Posted - 2008.02.27 19:37:00 - [374] Ok i had a discussion whit a corp buddy. He even wantta bed , i fly a bc whit mining foreman link - laser optimization + i got the skills Mining Dir , Mining foreman ,warfare link spec all on V We had 2 macks ice mining both using alround tii ,he claimed that a 3 mack would give more then when i give bonus. I'm not so into numbers i tested it imo we have more whit 2 macks + bonus then 3 whiteout . Any1 can confirm that
Halada Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.02 03:18:00 - [375] Edited by: Halada on 02/03/2008 03:20:49 I have been nominated for best guide writer of the year at the eon awards, second time Thanks to whoever voted for me! On a second note, I am working on a new version again. - correcting mistakes - character creation - new gang links - more in depth section on gang mining, like should I use my hulk or boost, when is it worth it, etc. ETA is unknown! Click on my sig to read it !
Ryk Tarr	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:36:00 - [376] I hope you continue to update this, it's an excellent guide. I remembered the guide from the first time I played and it's the first thing I looked for when I came back. Thanks for the good work.
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2008.03.07 05:16:00 - [377] Our corp has a Dedicated "Support" Pilot for Mining Operations. He has Maxed Leadership for Mining and the Implant as well. So if you need help with research let me know.
Sora Attero	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:50:00 - [378] Agreed hands down the guide is truly immense. When the server is back up, I'm making a mining character (new to eve) so gutted that there isnt a guide to character creation, although i gather caldari would be best to start off with at least. keen on what the update contains
Malignum Alhen	Posted - 2008.03.08 09:22:00 - [379] This guide is nothing short of awesome. Thank you for your hardwork and willingness to keep updating it /salute
Drumia Miningformans Inc	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:34:00 - [380] Excellent guide. Keep up the good work. Will send you some isk

vanBuskirk Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.26 09:56:00 - [381] Just one thing, and it might already have been covered - I don't have the time to read a huge thread like this! Not all Empire stations have 50% base. Some of them, last time I looked, have only 30% base. IIRC, they are the ones that have absolutely everything including medical and labs. Example; the two Kaalakiota stations in Heorah. Most people will check before refining, but possibly not everyone will do so before piling up the ore! ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Zinovy Black MX3 Development Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.26 20:45:00 - [382] Just a Godsend! Good job and keep up the good work, can't wait for the latest version!
Halada Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.27 02:00:00 - [383] Originally by: vanBuskirk Just one thing, and it might already have been covered - I don't have the time to read a huge thread like this! Not all Empire stations have 50% base. Some of them, last time I looked, have only 30% base. IIRC, they are the ones that have absolutely everything including medical and labs. Example; the two Kaalakiota stations in Heorah. Most people will check before refining, but possibly not everyone will do so before piling up the ore! That's already mentioned in the guide. There are even tables for each equipment refinery. You fail at reading skills Click on my sig to read it !
Artazzo Clan Wulf	Posted - 2008.03.28 12:03:00 - [384] Edited by: Artazzo on 28/03/2008 12:04:00 question for gang-mining. i'm doubting between a scythe and a cane. Cane: Hi: 3x Co-Processor I, Mining Laser Upgrade I, 2x Expanded Cargohold II Mid: Survey Scanner I Low: Small Tractor Beam I, 6x Miner II Drones: 5x Mining Drone I Scythe Hi: 2x Co-Processor I, Mining Laser Upgrade I Mid: none Low: Small Tractor Beam I, 3x Miner II any tips/suggestions? i can use up to BC's with minmatar, that's it for now ;)
Moridrex	Posted - 2008.03.29 15:14:00 - [385] OK so I'm curious, because I can't seem to find any definitive answers and I can't fly command ships yet... But is it possible to fit three Laser Optimisation gang links on a fleet command, turn them all on and have their effects stack for the hulk fleet? Has anyone tested this? (I would but I can't fly a command for another 70 days :( ) And Halada...when there is a tested answer to this perhaps we could get it in the command ship section of the guide...so that those of us who use it as a mining bible of sorts have our answer right there. :)
Guardian Sarlen	Posted - 2008.03.29 16:52:00 - [386] Just wanted to say 'thank you' for taking the time and effort to compile and maintain such a thorough resource! I stumbled across it while looking for the answer to the question, How do I know which asteroids yield which ore? And there you were, not only with the answer to the question, but answers to many more questions and even a philosophy on the profession. It was so inspiring, it really gave me a whole new perspective on mining. All I was trying to do was finish a noob mission (obviously), and now I'm filled with a whole new incentive to pursue my mining career. As a bonus, finding this made me look REAL good to my hubby and our roommate who have been playing EVE since beta, and only just recently took a serious interest in mining. Bravo!
Halada	Posted - 2008.03.30 23:53:00 - [387] Originally by: Moridrex OK so I'm curious, because I can't seem to find any definitive answers and I can't fly command ships yet... But is it possible to fit three Laser Optimisation gang links on a fleet command, turn them all on and have their effects stack for the hulk fleet? Has anyone tested this? (I would but I can't fly a command for another 70 days :( ) And Halada...when there is a tested answer to this perhaps we could get it in the command ship section of the guide...so that those of us who use it as a mining bible of sorts have our answer right there. :) Sadly know. It used to appear in the description that the bonus applied was not stackable. You can just activate one :) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=434899 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] Click on my sig to read it !
Gnaus	Posted - 2008.03.31 15:46:00 - [388] Sorry if i don't find the courage to read all replies. soo if that have already been said, just ignore that. found an error, Top of Page 8 : Quote: Finally there is ice, which is now only available in low-sec and 0.0. I mine ice in high secure (Emolgranlan 0.5) Haven't read all the manual yet, but already congrat you for that work. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Draft Wise Forgotten League	Posted - 2008.04.02 17:34:00 - [389] Just wanted to say thanks for an awesome guide. Cheers.
Stonie Bandit IDLE SLAVES	Posted - 2008.04.02 18:49:00 - [390] Good guide. It was a huge pain in the ..... to get all skill training done. But I am very happy I pulled trough. Still not 100% skilled tho, so many things to train...... Perhaps you can put some tactics in, against thiefs and gankers. Keep up the good work

jack jam School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.02 21:23:00 - [391] First of all, thank you Halada for your guide. I find it quite useful and informative. It is obvious you have spent a great deal of time in writing this guide. I am a new, casual player and when I do play EVE, I sometimes like to mine. I do have a suggestion that I think would help new players. My suggestion is that it would help new players such as myself if you could at least once spell out in long form the device, module, etc you are referring to. Preferably, this would be done at the first occurrence. For example, "You should equip a Mining Laser Upgrade (MLU) in a low power slot". After mentioning it once in long form, the short abbreviated form is immediately followed in parentheses and henceforth the short abbreviated form could be used. Again, many thanks.
Vertizor Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.07 04:59:00 - [392] I'm having serious problems downloading this ... does this link even make sense? http://www.envimon.com/francis/eve/completeminersguide_v2.2.pdf appears to be a company of some sort. When I try to download, it goes great for some part of it, maybe even most of it ... and then the download just appears to freeze ... the speed goes something terrible, the kb downloaded goes to an absolute crawl ... any idea what the deal is?
Bella Deala Mummenschanz	Posted - 2008.04.07 17:09:00 - [393] Has anyone a formula, that includes these stuff? Mining (max + 25% to yield) Astrogeology (max + 25% to yield) Mining Barge (max + 15% to yield of barges and exhumers) Exhumer (max + 15% to yield of exhumers) Mining Foreman (max + 10% to yield) Crystals û T1 and T2 (+8,33% (T1) or +16,17% (T2) to yield) Mining Laser Upgrades (+5% to yield per MLU, +9% for MLU2) Bonus from the Bargues or Exuhmers Number of Miners A formula to calculate the result of a ship, including the pilots skills. Bella
Kask Aledrought	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:43:00 - [394] I'm getting the file is damaged also when I download the link. is there another copy some place? All of us getting the errors cant be morons... (hopefully g)
Chi Quan Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.16 20:01:00 - [395] just tried, works here. maybe it's your pdf reader? ---- "i-r-l33t3r-than-u 'cause ju is a n00b" is not a valid argument, it just shows you don't have any
Kask Aledrought	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:36:00 - [396] yeah, something odd... I see the file on his website has being 1.4meg but I get a 128k download. I'll just try it from home, must be my company firewall or something. (knew I should of spent the time to train up HACKING Rank 3 g) thanks...
Marcus'da Black	Posted - 2008.04.17 21:11:00 - [397] link is busted
Bloodhands hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.18 05:50:00 - [398] worked fine for me just a minute ago. great guide.
Cybelee Perkone	Posted - 2008.04.19 14:16:00 - [399] A very well written and in depth guide to this career path, Thanks Halada. My Eve Site: Eve Online Fan
Kask Aledrought	Posted - 2008.04.21 12:26:00 - [400] yeah, something odd is going on with it but I read it at home and think its a great guild. Not sure if its a particular IE vs FF setting or my company firewall mucking with things. Thanks for the good work!

Tristan Ray	Posted - 2008.04.27 22:01:00 - [401] Edited by: Tristan Ray on 27/04/2008 22:01:44 Minor question that I didn't see addressed in the thread ... On Pg 44 (sec 11.2) of the guide, it states that the bonus to a gang is +29% given Mining Director 5, Mindlink, and Warfare Link Spec 5 in concert with the Laser Opt gang module. Isn't this just the bonus to the laser cycle times? Isn't the bonus actually the +29% plus 15% from Mining Foreman 5 (+10% x 1.5 for the Mindlink)? Making the gang bonus in the example actually +48% or so? Other than that, it's an excellent guide ... I wish I had found it sooner in my mining career ...
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:08:00 - [402] The link works for me fine but since others have had some issues I will try and mirror it elsewhere ! Otherwise I'm letting you know v3.0 has been put on ice for now ! It showed good progress with an added 10 pages, strategies on how to further use the rorqual, fleet bonuses and when to use which ship (ex. when is it worth it to replace a hulk by a gang booster), etc. Time is too short, I hope this summer will let me do this :) Click on my sig to read it !
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:09:00 - [403] Originally by: Tristan Ray Edited by: Tristan Ray on 27/04/2008 22:01:44 Minor question that I didn't see addressed in the thread ... On Pg 44 (sec 11.2) of the guide, it states that the bonus to a gang is +29% given Mining Director 5, Mindlink, and Warfare Link Spec 5 in concert with the Laser Opt gang module. Isn't this just the bonus to the laser cycle times? Isn't the bonus actually the +29% plus 15% from Mining Foreman 5 (+10% x 1.5 for the Mindlink)? Making the gang bonus in the example actually +48% or so? Other than that, it's an excellent guide ... I wish I had found it sooner in my mining career ... 29% is for the link's bonus alone, not the other bonuses. You misread it. Click on my sig to read it !
Princess Shirin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.11 15:50:00 - [404] Is it possible to get less tax at a NPC station in Empire if your corporation has good standings towards the NPC corporation? I know you referred to the player when you wrote about standings, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Training for pew-pew with my miner would feel a bit meh, so perhaps a reasonable way would be to start a corporation, throw in a pew-pew alt which raises the standings to whatever corporation I need standings with?
Dr Karsun Gallente Faith and Hope HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:45:00 - [405] I'm really impressed. A really amazing thing to read. One thing that it doesn't cover tho, and it should in my opinion. It should also mention what kind of learning skills should be learned before you start all the rest. At the end, it will save a lot of time, as I have noticed, although I played only for over a week. I'm getting all I need and then going for the barges :) Again, thanks man :D When hope is the only thing that remains, there is nothing more you can afford to lose. My Deviantart profile.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.12 05:21:00 - [406] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 12/05/2008 05:22:32 You can mine ice in highsec. Also, Hedbergite is traditionally a high end ore, only found in crappy 0.0 sec.
Chicken Tikka	Posted - 2008.05.16 11:29:00 - [407] Firstly Halada great work on the pdf. Just a quick question, my mining team consists of: x1 Tank x1 Hauler x5 Skiffs How would you set this team up i.e fleet command structure to get the maximum yield for mining including any link modules and implants.
MixMaster Wisdom Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.22 13:21:00 - [408] Hey, First. Great coverage of mining. I have all my friends read it prior to joining EVE. Can I suggest a change in your PDF? on page 24 you state: "and 0.36% more than the Domi." and "the Retriever and the Dominix are pretty much on the same level" But just previously you had stated on Page 22 "The Rokh however now fits this bill as well, so the Dominix will no longer be covered." You might consider changing page 24's reference from the Domi to the Rokh. Also, you have a few places in the document where there are spacing issues. If you want, I'd gladly help with this. -MMW
Surreal Evocation	Posted - 2008.05.22 20:46:00 - [409] Edited by: Surreal Evocation on 22/05/2008 20:53:15 Very nice guide, helped me a lot. However, as I posted in another topic earlier, there's some troubles with the net yield...dunno if I overlook something. I know an NPC station in 0.6, base yield 50%, standing there is 7.6. I have ref 5, ref eff 3, ore spec skill at 4 but I only get a 96.2 percent yield, although your guide says it should be 100%... Or I am doing something wrong or it might be a point for improvement :). Edit: I see...I just read the net yield indicator, but it indeed does not take into account the specialized skills...ignore the last part of this post please. Very good guide, as I said!
Kevin Kenobi	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:33:00 - [410] I'm really curious in this, but I'm having trouble downloading it, like the others mentioned.

Daniel Jackson Aegis Tactical Command Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.05.27 21:38:00 - [411] what about Implant bonuses, and gang mod bonuses to ICE Mining? I haven't seen them in the guide ___________________
Chicken Tikka	Posted - 2008.05.30 10:15:00 - [412] I have a char with mining foreman 5, mining director 5, and link specialist 5. Which is the best ship for him to be in as squad commander to give best yield to the remainder of the gang...a Rorqual, a Command ship or Battlecruiser?
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.30 14:31:00 - [413] Originally by: Chicken Tikka I have a char with mining foreman 5, mining director 5, and link specialist 5. Which is the best ship for him to be in as squad commander to give best yield to the remainder of the gang...a Rorqual, a Command ship or Battlecruiser? Rorqual, as it has extra bonuses. Theres no diffirence on battlecruiser and commandship. However if you have already trained for command ship, it can use multiple links. But if you arent there, its not worth the training time, just to get an extra link to boost traget range.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.30 14:57:00 - [414] As I see a lot of players asking questions about this, and the guide only offers brief explanation, and a dont really specify that you can actually get same bonuses with battlecruiser as you can with a command ship, I propose that a more thourough explanation will be implemented into the guide. To get Maximum out of a Battlecruiser for both Ore mining and Ice Mining when in a gang you need following : Mining Foreman V Mining Director V Warfare Link Specialist V Cybernetics V Mining Foreman Mindlink ( Implant ) These will net you following bonuses : 15% yield 22.5% Reduced Cycle times. That also applies to commandships. In a fleet command ship however, you can fit mutiple mining links, or fit warfare links. Each Fleet command ship has bonuses to racial links. Minmatar - Claymore - 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Links per Command ship skill level Gallente - Eos - 3% bonus to Information Warfare Links per command ship level. Caldari - Vulture - 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Links per command ship level. Amarr - Damnation - 3% bonus to Armored Warfare Links per command ship skill level. These variations is as high as you can go in High Security Systems. In low security systems, there are more options, which is also described in the guide. A Capital industrial ship called "Rorqual". Guide coovers this aswell. If there is something I have missed, I am sure there will be some fast readers that will point it out :)
Blydchyld Galactic Extensive Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.31 00:36:00 - [415] >3 thnx I LIKE ARK! The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me
Halada Lone Star Joint Venture	Posted - 2008.06.07 18:10:00 - [416] I'm now in vacation and would like, soon, to update the guide significantly. Some sections were edited but no longer make sense, and the new market crash deserves a section dedicated to economy and manufacturing. I have read ALL of your comments and taken notes to change what I can. Hopefully I can have this done this summer, but 64 pages is already heavy, adding another 10 will seem EXTREME PS. Sticky got nerfed :( Click on my sig to read it !
Kask Aledrought Imperial Security Group	Posted - 2008.06.19 12:27:00 - [417] bump
Mona X Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2008.06.19 13:15:00 - [418] Originally by: Halada PS. Sticky got nerfed :( Links to the thread and pdf are in Resource thread.
So SuiMe Entropy Systems Mining Co. Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:56:00 - [419] Edited by: So SuiMe on 20/06/2008 02:57:17 Originally by: Halada I'm now in vacation and would like, soon, to update the guide significantly. Some sections were edited but no longer make sense, and the new market crash deserves a section dedicated to economy and manufacturing. I have read ALL of your comments and taken notes to change what I can. Hopefully I can have this done this summer, but 64 pages is already heavy, adding another 10 will seem EXTREME PS. Sticky got nerfed :( Great news. Your guide is really indispensable to anyone who does mining. There is no such thing as EXTREME to a dedicated miner Please keep up your fantastic work.
JP Goodwin	Posted - 2008.06.22 22:24:00 - [420] Thanks very much for the guide. I searched through the thread for all the hits on Omber but didn't see this question. You say: How can we generally interpret that table ? At the time of the release of this guide,  Omber is the best ore available in Empire But the table says: Omber 59.56 99.27 Kernite 143.85 119.88 Kernite looks better than omber, and you can mine Kernite in Amarr 0.5/0.6/0.7 space. What am I missing

Halada Lone Star Joint Venture	Posted - 2008.06.23 01:54:00 - [421] That was written two years ago and has changed since then. However Omber isn't faction specific hence why I chose Omber. ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
Pernick	Posted - 2008.06.24 20:13:00 - [422] Originally by: Halada I'm now in vacation and would like, soon, to update the guide significantly. Halada, you're still my hero. Your guide especially has made Yarring Rocks fun. Originally by: Daniel Jackson what about Implant bonuses, and gang mod bonuses to ICE Mining? I haven't seen them in the guide I too am curious about this information. I've been doodeling around on my own and found out a few things - Perhaps I can send you my notes about ice.
AgMiner	Posted - 2008.07.01 02:40:00 - [423] Absolutly magic guide, been my Bible through 2? iterations. For those asking about character making, try out "EveHQ" it hasa good character generator that allows you to specify what skills you want and generates a character that will train those skills in the shortest time. I also have a problem, using the yeild formula as per the guide [Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05) I get 94.4% efficiency at a 30% refinery, the same formula gives me 89.4% at a 30% refinery, But if I use the refinery, the yield shown by the refinery is 91.88% before ore processing skills are factored in. (we won't go into why I would use a 30% refinery here ) Refining 5 Refining Efficiency 5 Ore processing 4 (all) Is the stated refinery efficiency wrong? Is the formula wrong ? Am I making a silly mistake ? Probably Am I confused ? YES Oh, and the guide (at least the 2.2 version I am using) doesn't include a table for the 30% refinery Regards etc (any spelling mistakes are wholly the responsibility of my keyboard, not me )
Belgarath Drakara	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:34:00 - [424] Hey, I just got the link to your guide with the payback calculation for the hulk, because I said at the current market prices 20m/h is the max from roid mining. Well your calculation is wrong, because you calculated with 60 cycle/h instead of only 20. One cycle with stip miners takes 180s. But it took me a while to convince the person who linked your great guide, that you made a misstake :p But if noone noticed it within 2 years, who cares. I just wanted to let you know...
Leana Darkrider Minmatar Daedalus industries OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 06:38:00 - [425] Thank you Halada, I've read the guide twice, and recommending it to other players who want to go mining. You did a great job with writing this one. I say it should be made a sticky :) /me taps his hat
Firvain	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:57:00 - [426] Originally by: Belgarath Drakara Hey, I just got the link to your guide with the payback calculation for the hulk, because I said at the current market prices 20m/h is the max from roid mining. Well your calculation is wrong, because you calculated with 60 cycle/h instead of only 20. One cycle with stip miners takes 180s. But it took me a while to convince the person who linked your great guide, that you made a misstake :p But if noone noticed it within 2 years, who cares. I just wanted to let you know... well em you have 3 strip miners, so that means you multiply 20 by 3 i think...
SugahMule	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:48:00 - [427] Just wanna ask few questions about mining strategy: Followed most things from ur guide and they were very helpful, and as complete noob i learned to menage in harsh enviroments of eve :) I have 2 alts, both almost done with Hulk training, one is finished itV training(alt). and other got some combat skills. now questions: Is carrier good choise(with links/drones etc) to support 2 hulks in mission/safe space mining ops... Will i be selfsufficient that way. And will that combo mine alot more than 3 hulks. I was planing of getting freighter to transport ore from station to station(i have perfect refine in 2 corps), to refine or sell. other than that... what is next logical step(next to drone skills) to improve my mining(if carrier is viable choice for support) Cash is not a problem cos i can pull alot of isk already with 2 hulks, as u are well aware :) Tnx in advance for quick responses. -Acre
Halada Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.04 17:30:00 - [428] Edited by: Halada on 04/07/2008 17:30:43 Originally by: Belgarath Drakara Hey, I just got the link to your guide with the payback calculation for the hulk, because I said at the current market prices 20m/h is the max from roid mining. Well your calculation is wrong, because you calculated with 60 cycle/h instead of only 20. One cycle with stip miners takes 180s. But it took me a while to convince the person who linked your great guide, that you made a misstake :p But if noone noticed it within 2 years, who cares. I just wanted to let you know... Yes and the Hulk also has three strips, not one, so you do get 60 cycles... so you lost a lot of time trying to convince you friend, hopefully it won't take as long to say: NEVERMIND ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
Gurphor	Posted - 2008.07.04 20:38:00 - [429] lol i myself like to mine for cash but i will dwnload ur guide for tips as am in only a iteron 3 and am getting 200 thousand isk and hour or so which tbh i think is bad, as i dont go low sec ever yet i make a living off plagiocase which is BAD!!!
Orion LeNoir Arc Lemanique Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2008.07.15 23:45:00 - [430] Thank you Halada for your guide. It is always with me when I am mining. You did a great work ! I am just wondering what kind of rigs everybody is using in the Hulk ? I was thinking about drone or cargo boosting for most people, is that right ? Another thing, perhaps you should have more details about how to use a Hulk or other barges. Few examples I have in mind : - base cycle is 180 secs, that means most of the time, you have to stop your strip before the end. The hint would be to have each strip on a different roid and stop it every 60 secs for exemple. - implants slots for classical mining and Ice mining is the same. Hint would be to you use clones for each kind of mining I think all this informations is always included somwhere, but perhaps a chapter containing tips could help. Anyway, thank you for your work, I am just looking for another guide for research & manufacturing with same level of quality !

Tomcat Gallente Are Cee Emm Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.07.18 06:53:00 - [431] A free bump for an awesome guy and a great guide!
Adre Guls Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.21 07:45:00 - [432] about rigs: that really depends on what you want. you can't say "use this rigs" there are several options i have in mind right now, for example (all are recommendations) solo mining in 0.0 - use resistance rigs (or resistance and CCC) mining in empire - drone rigs mining with 'cargo hulk' - use cargo opt. rigs and so on ... you should fit rigs for situation you likely going to be or want to be :) Quote: - base cycle is 180 secs, that means most of the time, you have to stop your strip before the end. The hint would be to have each strip on a different roid and stop it every 60 secs for exemple. i dont get it :) .. why stop the strips ? just run them and let them running
Teal'c Reborn	Posted - 2008.07.22 02:39:00 - [433] Edited by: Teal''c Reborn on 22/07/2008 02:40:59 would love to read the guide, but the link says 'site unavailable, contact administrator'...does anyone have a working link for this...seems like a good guide from all reports! Cheers in advance edit: just saw a few pages back that others have had this problem...
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.07.22 03:22:00 - [434] fixed ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
Orion L'Oursien	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:24:00 - [435] Originally by: Adre Guls i dont get it :) .. why stop the strips ? just run them and let them running For exemple, you are mining with 3 strip miners (yield 1500 m3). That is 4500 m3 per 180 sec. If the roid you are mining got only 1500 m3 minerals, you will lost 120 secondes. If you stop your strips each 60 secs, the roid will disappear the first time, saving you 120 secs.
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.07.27 20:52:00 - [436] Originally by: Orion L'Oursien Originally by: Adre Guls i dont get it :) .. why stop the strips ? just run them and let them running For exemple, you are mining with 3 strip miners (yield 1500 m3). That is 4500 m3 per 180 sec. If the roid you are mining got only 1500 m3 minerals, you will lost 120 secondes. If you stop your strips each 60 secs, the roid will disappear the first time, saving you 120 secs. So? Assign one different roid for each strip and mine the big roids only. You shouldn't have to stop them yourself, if they do stop then just switch to another roid and life goes on. ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
Hilda VanDenDungen Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.29 06:51:00 - [437] In the section describing the Retriever setup, it suggests adding a mining laser upgrade ("MLU"). It seems I cannot fit this because I don't have enough CPU. I see that the mining upgrades skill gives 5% reduction per skill level in CPU penalty of mining upgrade module. What level should mining upgrades be trained to in order to fit the MLU? Is there also an underlying assumption about what level the Electronics skill has been trained to?
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:00:00 - [438] Regardless of assumed level, you should train Electronics (and Engineering) to level 5. The benefit to having those skills, and your other support skills, trained up is immeasurable. That said, Mining Upgrades at level 1 should be more than enough to fit a MLU on a barge. If, however, it is not, just look at the training times in question and decide which skill you wish to train up to make it fit. I know less than you think I do. Gemini Sun is Recruiting
Tanis Khan Minmatar 14th Legion	Posted - 2008.07.31 18:54:00 - [439] Just want to say if you are remotly interested in mining you ahve to read this. Or if you are remotly interested in developing the miners in your corp, know this, and understand them Our Ship, Ammo and Missile Emporium
Sudiin S Gallente Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.01 11:17:00 - [440] Many many heartfelt thanks for your guide Halada . For a starting out dedicated miner like me, it's essential in every respect.

thebelgian	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:35:00 - [441] thx for the guide, it's really helpfull thx
Rellana DAB THE VILLAGE PE0PLE	Posted - 2008.08.09 11:18:00 - [442] Many thanks for the guide Halada.Just one question,do you actually need a full faction tank in 0.o as I was pricing the modules you mentioned and it came to about 620 mill or so...
Jarlath Zaid	Posted - 2008.08.11 05:34:00 - [443] Thanks for making an excellent guide. While I consider myself a veteran of eve now, I still find myself referring to your guide for help! While working on my toons mining gang bonus related skills, I took a look at your guide for the information related to it. I may have found a discrepancy (I hope not), perhaps you can clue me in? It's minor really, but it might help others. On page 44 in your awesome guide it states: As I mentioned at the beginning of the section, the laser optimization link will reduce your cycle time (it doesnÆt affect ice harvesters by the way) instead of giving a direcot bonus to your yield. In game the link module item description states: Decreases mining lasers/ gas harvester and ice harvester duration. To try and keep the post short, I edited the remainder of the description. Based on my personal experience, I can vouch that the mining link does indeed affect ice mining duration. Please help! Thanks!! Mr. Zaid
Passin Through	Posted - 2008.08.13 00:49:00 - [444] Unless I missed it there doesn't appear to be any info on POS refining arrays and their efficiencies. And how skills effect them.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2008.08.13 07:20:00 - [445] Originally by: Jarlath Zaid Based on my personal experience, I can vouch that the mining link does indeed affect ice mining duration. Please help! Thanks!! Link was changed. Guide wasn't. Originally by: Passin Through Unless I missed it there doesn't appear to be any info on POS refining arrays and their efficiencies. And how skills effect them. Reffinng arrays have 35% and 75% efficiency. Skill affects them in the same way as station 50% rafineries.
Jarlath Zaid	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:29:00 - [446] Thanks Mona!
Passin Through	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:52:00 - [447] Originally by: Mona X Refining arrays have 35% and 75% efficiency. Skill affects them in the same way as station 50% refineries. It would be also interesting to have a comparison of efficiencies between using a Rorqual to compress and take back to station to refine as to just using the refiners at a POS. The comparison would be the isk it would take to run each operation (fuel) vs. the yield in minerals per hour.
Freakje	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:01:00 - [448] Thanks, has learened me the first steps into mining.
PampalinyCZ Amarr Falling Stars Squadron Aphelion.	Posted - 2008.08.22 14:09:00 - [449] hi, thnx for great guide. But can you correct this on page 40: Blue Ice gives you 300 Oxygen Isotopes not Oxygen. Same is with Thick Blue Ice with 350..
maeby	Posted - 2008.08.22 19:07:00 - [450] very helpful guide tyvm

Bendenn Aeon Of Strife	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:58:00 - [451] First off, Halada thanks for the great guide. I actually read it before I made my first character and I still keep a copy on my desk all the time. I'm curious about the Hulk fitting described in the guide. I've got electronics/engineering at 5, mining upgrades at 4 and I cannot fit two faction hardeners and the faction booster. Even using the C type hardeners I'm over by 12 cpu. The only way I can make them work is to add the +5% CPU implant and I really don't want to be flying around low sec with that in my head. Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?
Charis D'Asgar	Posted - 2008.08.27 05:28:00 - [452] "Since youÆre fitted with 8 mining lasers, you will be getting 11400 units of Omber per cycle, or 84 000 units of Omber per hour. Yeah, itÆs not a whole lot more," 11400 is a mistake. Should be 1400, I guess. P.S. Have downloaded it right now.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2008.09.13 08:20:00 - [453] Originally by: Bendenn Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong? 1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game. 2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners?
Jay See	Posted - 2008.09.14 20:51:00 - [454] A very complete and well-written guide. Great work !
Bendenn Aeon Of Strife Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:25:00 - [455] Originally by: Mona X Originally by: Bendenn Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong? 1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game. 2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners? Thanks for the reply. 1. Good catch on the T2 MLU's. They have been in the game since I started so I didn't even consider that the build would use T1s. 2. I was really more curious about why the setup wasn't working for me. I've moved into null sec since I posted and have found a much less expensive setup that is working great for me. Cap stable and I can tank triple BS spawns + escorts and hardly ever see my shield below 90%.
Garrick Konquero ImmCo	Posted - 2008.10.17 23:30:00 - [456] I don't do much mining, but I still love this guide, and I'm looking forward to the next update. One thing, the guide states that npc stations all have a base refine rate of 50%. In fact, there are a number of npc installations that have base refine rates of 35%.
super hornet Caldari Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.18 11:57:00 - [457] great guides
Billy BadBottom	Posted - 2008.11.09 00:33:00 - [458] 2 things... First, props to a guide that I refer to often, love the organization, graphics, cleanliness; I know that takes time. Second, any plans to play around with the new ship Orca and update the guide?
padraig animal Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.11.16 12:08:00 - [459] Great guide bump it to the top :P Thought it was sticky
ZergCow	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:32:00 - [460] First off, Wonderfull guide!!! Now I think i found a few problems. I began making an excel book (spreadsheets) for calculating allll sorts of things. While making it I noticed a few problems in some formulas. After a few days I got the refining sheet to be dead on, 100%, not a penny out of place accurate thanks to your guide. But I am having a real problem with mining yeild. Let me explain. your formula: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle First off there are three 1.15 in there. there should be two 1.15 and one 1.10 (these are the skills Mining Barge(1.15), Mining Forman(1.1), and Exhumers(1.15)) once you fix THAT then you get this ... 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 (2x upgrades) * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle The problem i have with this formula is why are the mining upgrades combined? Is there a reason for this in this equation? if you combine the upgrades into 1.1 like that you do get 1736.68 BUT if you keep them seperate(1.05 twice) you get 1740.628. So how should it be done? should i keep the upgrades combined? what if i have one tech II upgrade for 9% and a tech one for 5% would i still combine for 1.14?? Why are we combining the upgrades but noting else? and do upgrades stack 100% like that? Thanks for any help. P.S. Also the equation on your first thread has the wrong sum. the equation is good the sum isnt right though. So yea just thought I would bring this stuff up.

Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:52:00 - [461] Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 20/11/2008 19:51:54 Mining Laser Upgrades (of any type) don't add together before multiplying. If you have a ship that brings in 500 m3 per cycle before applying the upgrades, then the first will give 500 x 1.05 in yield and the second would be 500 x 1.05 x 1.05. As far as I know, the only bonuses that you add before multiplying are the skill level bonuses, like Mining (i.e. Mining V gives a 1.25 bonus to your yield rather than 1.05^5).
Moridrex	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:07:00 - [462] Originally by: Bendenn Originally by: Mona X Originally by: Bendenn Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong? 1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game. 2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners? Thanks for the reply. 1. Good catch on the T2 MLU's. They have been in the game since I started so I didn't even consider that the build would use T1s. 2. I was really more curious about why the setup wasn't working for me. I've moved into null sec since I posted and have found a much less expensive setup that is working great for me. Cap stable and I can tank triple BS spawns + escorts and hardly ever see my shield below 90%. Any chance we can convince you to share your nullsec tanking setup with the group? :)
ZergCow	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:25:00 - [463] Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14 Originally by: Gavin DeVries Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 20/11/2008 19:51:54 Mining Laser Upgrades (of any type) don't add together before multiplying. If you have a ship that brings in 500 m3 per cycle before applying the upgrades, then the first will give 500 x 1.05 in yield and the second would be 500 x 1.05 x 1.05. As far as I know, the only bonuses that you add before multiplying are the skill level bonuses, like Mining (i.e. Mining V gives a 1.25 bonus to your yield rather than 1.05^5). ok so then this formula is correct: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle and this formula is wrong: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers?
FullMetal Basilisk Minmatar Freeform Industries	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:15:00 - [464] ooooh, this excellent guide now needs to be updated for the orca :P ;)
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:27:00 - [465] Originally by: ZergCow Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14 ok so then this formula is correct: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * *1.05 1.05** * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle and this formula is wrong: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers? We aren't using the same numbers; I bolded the differece. 1.05*1.05 does not equal 1.1; it's 1.1025. That's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless. From what part of the guide is that taken? I'm assuming that's 1.25 each for Mining V and Astrogeology V, 1.15 each for Mining Barges V and Exhumers V, and then 1.05 each for 2 Mining Laser Upgrades, 1.05 each for two implants, plus 1.75 for a T2 crystal? ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.20 22:19:00 - [466] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 20/11/2008 22:22:48 Overall good guide, but on page 7, you say twice that all systems have asteroid belts, which is wrong. Neither Aunia nor Dodixie have them and I'm sure plenty of others don't either. Most do, but not all do. You also say that ice is only in low-sec and null-sec, which is also untrue. I mine ice in Chelien, which is 0.7, sec all the time.
ZergCow	Posted - 2008.11.20 22:37:00 - [467] Originally by: Gavin DeVries Originally by: ZergCow Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14 ok so then this formula is correct: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * *1.05 1.05** * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle and this formula is wrong: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers? We aren't using the same numbers; I bolded the differece. 1.051.05 does not equal 1.1; it's 1.1025. That's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless. From what part of the guide is that taken? I'm assuming that's 1.25 each for Mining V and Astrogeology V, 1.15 each for Mining Barges V and Exhumers V, and then 1.05 each for 2 Mining Laser Upgrades, 1.05 each for two implants, plus 1.75 for a T2 crystal? The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above. I see what your saying with the upgrades where 1.051.05=1.1025 Thats why i was confused about the formula in the guide. If you add the two upgrades before the equation then yes 5%+5%=10%=0.1 where as if you just stick the upgrades into the equation by themselves you get 5%*5%=10.25%=0.1025 With that being Said I am assuming the person who made that formula was rounding to the tenth place and assumed the two are the same because if you round it both of those equal 0.10 But obviously when testing the two formulas you get 6M3 differance in the outcome. not much to some people sure but i am trying to calculate minerals per hour and profit per day/week/month based on that which would throw my profit off by millions if not more. Thats why I really want to clear up this equation.
Fieldcrew	Posted - 2008.11.23 14:35:00 - [468] Originally by: Kyra Felann Edited by: Kyra Felann on 20/11/2008 22:22:48 Overall good guide, but on page 7, you say twice that all systems have asteroid belts, which is wrong. Neither Aunia nor Dodixie have them and I'm sure plenty of others don't either. Most do, but not all do. You also say that ice is only in low-sec and null-sec, which is also untrue. I mine ice in Chelien, which is 0.7, sec all the time. These were removed a few patches back to lower the numbers in high volume systems to assist with lag issues. When he wrote the original guide the statement was true. the guild was updated to say that about ICE but there use to be ICE in 1.0 system which were removed to lower the macro miners with zero risk ICE mining.
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.23 22:56:00 - [469] Edited by: Halada on 23/11/2008 22:55:59 Originally by: ZergCow The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above. The equation on page 32 is 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle 360 = base cycle 1.25 = Astro V 1.25 = Mining V 1.15 = Barge V 1.15 = Exhumer 5 1.15 = Mining Foreman V with the Mindlink 1.05 = Highwall Implant 1.05 = Michi Implant 1.05^2 = Upgrades x2 1.75 = T2 Crystal 1.10 does not appear anywhere in the guide if you search for it! Looks like you looked at a wrong place. ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
ZergCow	Posted - 2008.11.24 04:02:00 - [470] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 23/11/2008 22:55:59 Originally by: ZergCow The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above. The equation on page 32 is 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle 360 = base cycle 1.25 = Astro V 1.25 = Mining V 1.15 = Barge V 1.15 = Exhumer 5 1.15 = Mining Foreman V with the Mindlink 1.05 = Highwall Implant 1.05 = Michi Implant 1.05^2 = Upgrades x2 1.75 = T2 Crystal 1.10 does not appear anywhere in the guide if you search for it! Looks like you looked at a wrong place. right but the equation SHOULD be 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle 360 = base cycle 1.25 = Astro V 1.25 = Mining V 1.15 = Barge V (bonus is based on the ship not the skill.) 1.15 = Exhumer 5 (bonus is based on the ship not the skill.) 1.10 = Mining Foreman V (with the Mindlink its 1.15 but the link is equipment on a ship not a skill.) 1.05 = Highwall Implant 1.05 = Michi Implant 1.05 = Mining Upgrade (or 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 depending on upgrade chosen.) 1.05 = Mining Upgrade (or 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 depending on upgrade chosen.) 1.75 = T2 Crystal (or 1.625 for tech one) The only reason to seperate out the two mining upgrades is so people dont try to add them together. See most of the ore mining calculators i have come accross are all aways a little bit off and i think this could be why. The excel sheet i made (which i should probably upload soon) is exact down to the last M3. Also I want to add that my comments are ment as constructive criticism and I am coming from the point of view of a newb. I have had this eve account for years but am just picking it back up and playing it 40 hours a week where as befor i only logged in to change skills. So all of the mining stuff is new to me. So as a newbi looking at this stuff these are the things that confuse me that i think could use some clearing up. Understanding this one equation helped me learn about mining in more ways than anything else.

Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.24 06:09:00 - [471] That's why the equation is 1.05^2 and not 1.05 x 2 ... 1.05^2 = 1.05 * 1.05 ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
NeoSmith Rex Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:44:00 - [472] Originally by: Bendenn I've got electronics/engineering at 5, mining upgrades at 4 and I cannot fit two faction hardeners and the faction booster. Even using the C type hardeners I'm over by 12 cpu. The only way I can make them work is to add the +5% CPU implant and I really don't want to be flying around low sec with that in my head. Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong? The CPU hasn't changed. but the CPU requirement of the shield harderners did changed when Trinity was launched, if i remember correctly. Originally by: ZergCow 1.10 = Mining Foreman V (with the Mindlink its 1.15 but the link is equipment on a ship not a skill.) If you plug an implant called Mining Foreman Mindlink, you'll get additional 0.05 from Mining Foreman V, hench 1.15 It is different from the equipment which use "Mining Foreman Link - " prefix on them.
luctirous	Posted - 2008.11.26 11:43:00 - [473] hi, could anyone upload the guide from his or her pc, cause i like to download it, but the website seems down. thanks
ZergCow	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:54:00 - [474] Originally by: Halada That's why the equation is 1.05^2 and not 1.05 x 2 ... 1.05^2 = 1.05 * 1.05 indeed. it just confused my little brain at first. and not to derail this thread but here is a little excel book i was working on if anyone wants to use it. Nothing fancy. In fact right now it is only for mining in a hulk. But I figured others night get some use out of it. I know they have mining apps out there that do this sort of thing but I kinda like excel because i can adjust it to my likeing. download link: http://www.aoegaming.net/zergcow/ZCMM.zip Let me know if you guys like it and what could be better. one of these days I plan on turning it into an app but that will be after i add in all the ice and compounds and ships and equipment. lol right now its just ore and hulk.
Roulet	Posted - 2008.12.07 10:14:00 - [475] Read the guide from top to bottom. Good job and many thanks as this has helped me bigtime. Cheers mate
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.07 18:51:00 - [476] Originally by: Fieldcrew These were removed a few patches back to lower the numbers in high volume systems to assist with lag issues. When he wrote the original guide the statement was true. I'm sure that's the case, but as of right now and for the last year or so I've been playing, there haven't been any in those systems. I'm just pointing this out, since the guide has been updated as of Trinity, those parts about all systems having belts should be changed.
Synfoola Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:07:00 - [477] Thank you for this. As a new player that wanted to avoid as many mistakes as possible in a game as in-depth as this one is, your guide made a load of difference in getting me started right. :)
Zevix	Posted - 2008.12.13 19:06:00 - [478] greetings and salutations to all. love the guide, love the posting banter, dig the constant attempts to refine calculations and cross reference information. Im newb, Im learning, and Im stuck :(. in section 6.2 "upgrades for the riches" the Gypsy KMB implant is fleetingly mentioned and in useing the eve fitting tool (EFT) (which is awesome BTW and recommend for any who havent tried it) I cannot for the life of me make that CPU stretch far enough. Ive tried altering my skills to see which one is failing me, I even tried the slot 10 implant ment to boost cpu for mining upgrades, but to no avail. can someone explain the formula for that lil jewel...please?
Clansworth Blackwater USA Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.13 19:34:00 - [479] What, in particular, are you trying to fit? Things that affect your CPU are your Electronics Skill, the Mining Upgrades skill (as it reduces the CPU use penalty of the miners), the afore mentioned KMB implants, and CPU modules (low-slot). System Influence
Zevix	Posted - 2008.12.14 03:02:00 - [480] Originally by: Clansworth What, in particular, are you trying to fit? Things that affect your CPU are your Electronics Skill, the Mining Upgrades skill (as it reduces the CPU use penalty of the miners), the afore mentioned KMB implants, and CPU modules (low-slot). Im trying to do what was mentioned in that section where you can fit 2 Mining Laser Upgrades on a Coveter. But taking into account the implant (KMB-75), Electronics 5, Mining Upgrades 5, and there are only 2 low slots on the Coveter anyways I overload it "268.01/262.5"

Lili Stellaire	Posted - 2008.12.18 10:14:00 - [481] In 2 words as in 1000, thank you so much for this pdf :)
Nicholas Skrypets Caldari Russian Specialists Group Red Army Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.19 11:21:00 - [482] will be there Quntum Rise update , need to figure it out about Orca ? and thank u, that's most complete and creative guide i ever read
Internlink	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:31:00 - [483] Helped me alot :) thanks :)
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.01.04 04:03:00 - [484] Originally by: Nicholas Skrypets will be there Quntum Rise update , need to figure it out about Orca ? and thank u, that's most complete and creative guide i ever read You take Rorqual section, strip it with everything excerpt mining bonus, take "2% * 5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 27%" formula, switch 1.2 with 1.12, do little math and voila. QR edition is ready.
Bast's Cleric Amarr 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2009.01.14 20:59:00 - [485] Orca Updated Needed, Yea the Math changes a little, But Some Fitting Advise Would also Be worth adding as well.
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Imperial Defense Coalition	Posted - 2009.01.23 07:01:00 - [486] Bump, Orca Updates would be Awesome.
Repdo	Posted - 2009.02.04 18:02:00 - [487] Halada, can you please comment on this?
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:57:00 - [488] I'm currently writing version 3.0 and is going slowly. It will be three times the size of the mining guide because it will cover industry almost entirely. Expected release date is March 10th with a revision to account for T3 1 month later. ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
ivar R'dhak Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.04 22:30:00 - [489] OMG! You¦re still carebearing like nobodies business! Cool. Fire me an EVE mail, if you wanna laber a bit.
Repdo	Posted - 2009.02.04 22:30:00 - [490] Thanks for your work in advance and for everything you've already done. It's very useful and informative. Hope you'll fixed this little inconsistency in the next releases.

Kordel Trask	Posted - 2009.02.05 17:21:00 - [491] Originally by: Halada I'm currently writing version 3.0 and is going slowly. It will be three times the size of the mining guide because it will cover industry almost entirely. Expected release date is March 10th with a revision to account for T3 1 month later. This is great, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. The CCP guides on the forums have always been greatly lacking. When I first started I was completely doing it wrong until I found your guide. Thanks in advance for the whole industrial update! I can't wait to read it.
Bast's Cleric Amarr 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2009.02.11 05:50:00 - [492] Bump because this is to awesome to hide on page 5 - Logistics Frigates
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2009.02.19 01:36:00 - [493] Page 6? Wow, Why the No Love for Halada?
Bertodan Amarr Maxx-Invest Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.19 17:07:00 - [494] Thank you very much, Halada. This guide is helped me a lot to get going in mining!
Bacchhus	Posted - 2009.02.19 19:31:00 - [495] Thanks a lot.
Anne Archer	Posted - 2009.02.24 06:29:00 - [496] Can't thank you enough for the guide and I can't wait for the update! If only CCP had documentation for the rest of the game this good, How much pain would that have saved everyone? Here's some Halda Luvin
Anthony Miller	Posted - 2009.03.03 06:47:00 - [497] Very nice guide Halada thanks a bunch it was really helpfull. Too bad we are enemies ingame so I can`t donate ISK.
Ch1pmunk	Posted - 2009.03.19 04:45:00 - [498] did this get updated recently? just wondering if there r changes with the latest ccp blunders (also known as 'the patch')
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.03.19 05:20:00 - [499] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 19/03/2009 05:21:44 Originally by: Ch1pmunk did this get updated recently? just wondering if there r changes with the latest ccp blunders (also known as 'the patch') their is a newer bersion. its very easy to find, it was right below this one,(and im going to bump it so it will be above this) so please stop bumping this its as obsolete as the thread about the T2 loto http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1020825 **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Adrian Reed	Posted - 2009.05.04 02:23:00 - [500] thank you so much for this guide very helpful

Anol Angus	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:06:00 - [501] Halada, please contact Carribean Queen in game.
Anol Angus	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:10:00 - [502] Halada, please contact Carribean Queen in game in regards to T3 Cruiser mining (it actually beats the ROKH) based on the information in this guide. 4x Deep Core Miners with Crystals pull 245m3/cycle (4) for 980m3/comparable cycle. With a skill up in Subsystems, this could go 5 for 1225/m3 cycle, and also doesn't count against the possibility of another MLU2. Gotta pay attention though, that hold fills mighty fast. :D
Tlaa Sirk	Posted - 2009.05.26 10:46:00 - [503] Edited by: Tlaa Sirk on 26/05/2009 10:47:26 Edited by: Tlaa Sirk on 26/05/2009 10:46:56 There is new version 3.0 of guide. Here it is: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1020825&page=1#1
Lee009 Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2009.08.18 11:56:00 - [504] This guide is better than anything out there even those that cost RL money
Spud Mackenzie	Posted - 2009.08.18 12:33:00 - [505] Edited by: Spud Mackenzie on 18/08/2009 12:33:38 Why did someone necro this thread, when the most recent/proper thread is actually Sticky'd up top? Come on people!? Pay attention to the Stickys, they're not just there to take up space!
Ireland VonVicious	Posted - 2009.10.16 00:38:00 - [506] Edited by: Ireland VonVicious on 16/10/2009 00:39:28 Well I read the guide front to back. Made sure to get every bit of information. For the most part I agree with everything in it. The math was done spot on. However there are two areas you may want to reconsider theory on. First being the battleship v.s. retriever. One huge factor here is attributes. If you have high mem/int and low perc/will the battleship is a very big waste when you compare the total sp/skills you will have for mining in the same amount of time. The second is drones. This also relates to mem/int skills. Drones are a memory skill and those new to eve and want to be miners should know that memory is the skill to have. Very high memory skills make for very fast mining drone training. I would recommend that new players remap all memory and the left overs to intelligence. I would also recommend this being done after cruiser level 4 and industrial level 3 are completed so that ship training time is still fast first few days. Memory will increase your learning speeds for the learning skills. This should be a priority. It will then get you great drone skills that should be done early. It will also get you into a retriever faster with all the other mining skills needed. Now doing drones early is the way I'd go. This is opposite of the guide. So here are my reasons: First jettison mining is dumb even day one. Besides stolen ore and wasted hours you can have can flippers that will just blow up new players. This is why learning anchoring is so important for starting miners. Just mine in 0.7 since the rats are the easiest for areas you can still anchor in. Set a giant secure container with password in a belt and fill it up. I recommend up to a dozen. Then use regular containers in your industrial to transport. Secure ones cost more and are unneeded inside your industrial. Use any starter frigate "Calderi are not the best". Just make sure you can tank with your frigate and have one light drone kill the NPC's while you mine. Reason 2: You will use drones for NPC's at belts for your mining career so get T2 light drones and T2 mining drones. Once you have light drones the mining drones are fast enough to get. Make sure you have your cruiser before training drones past level 1 though. Reason 3: Drones are never going to be as big of a total percentage of your mining as they will be when you start. Even on a Fully fitted retriever with all T2 items drones can make up around 25% of your total ore per hour. Now with memory heavy avatar this changes the whole Calderi has best cruiser for mining. The winner will be the Gallente Vexor. This also changes the entire harvester drone thing. Guess what they are very worth it when you mine in 0.5 and above and have them on the astroid right next to your ship. Vexor with harvester drones just stopped you from even needing to train drones to T2 for the early stages and with drone bonuses they will be great for high sec. I'm a massive tester of ships in EFT and Vexor with mining drones at 4 and harvester drones just makes other cruisers look bad. So much so that the vexor is on par with the T1 fitted retriever. Amarr also have the arbitrator which has similar bonus. Random fun fact Orca the high sec carebear makes a great afk miner when using 5 harvester drones. Grab a few mil while you eat dinner. So yes harvesters suck for anything under 0.5 security but they do have great high sec use. I know rigs were way expensive not long ago when this guide was written but they are cheap now. Even before the change drone rigs on vexor omg. I know this guide was made before remaps but even there some avatars were memory heavy just to mine. Always have a survey scanner! If you want more information on any of this say hi in game. Another fun thing about the vexor before I go. Notice it fits 5 light drones and 5 harvester drones in the bay. what a nice 0.5 miner that makes. Also all skills trained when done this way go directly toward your mining except the less then one day for cruiser levels.
Bel'shamharoth	Posted - 2009.10.16 01:33:00 - [507] Way to necro the old guide, moron. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not a fig plucker or a fig plucker's son, but I'll pluck figs till the fig plucking's done.
Ireland VonVicious	Posted - 2009.10.16 02:35:00 - [508] Edited by: Ireland VonVicious on 16/10/2009 02:42:57 Originally by: Bel'shamharoth Way to necro the old guide, moron. I love it! Within the day. Like I said I read from front to back. I read what expansions were talked about to give me a time referance of when last updated. That is why I mentioned the few changes since. If you know of a newer version post the link instead of just trying to be a jerk. I played during those times in game as well with my first toon and all those points were just as valid during that time. Just letting new people know there are some better ways to go about things. Oh and pull your head out of your but Bel'shamhartoh I even went and found the new guide due to your great comment these things are still valid as they are not changed in the 3.0 version. Only comment that had any mention was the can flipping which did not talk about how they take from can and then put into can and make there own to make you put items in again and make you red to them. I guess I'll just have to copy paste entire comment into the other thread too.
Wendi Watson	Posted - 2009.10.16 18:49:00 - [509] Originally by: Ireland VonVicious If you know of a newer version post the link instead of just trying to be a jerk. It's a sticky at the top of this forum.
true sight	Posted - 2009.10.20 15:38:00 - [510] Question about Rorqual Compression, or two questions rather: Does the ME/PE of your compression blueprints have any effect, i.e. is it worth researching them? Does Compressed Ore fit in the dedicated ore-hold, or just normal ore? -------------------------------------- True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--



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