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Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 16:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null or lowsec
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type people this is a question for the people that
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or build items.
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no part in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out) I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
231
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
What makes you think that living in high sec has to be cheap? Faction mods, T3 ships and so forth as examples. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
684
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Take no part in the game?
You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.
Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Captain Alcatraz
Douchingtons Shadow Cartel
46
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Because some people would never leave the cave given the chance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave |
Cregg Neir
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Question to OP: Why do you need other people to play the same way you do? Why do you need other people to tell you why they play the game their way? |
Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
97
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cregg Neir wrote:Question to OP: Why do you need other people to play the same way you do? Why do you need other people to tell you why they play the game their way? maybe hes just curious? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
122
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't know anyone like those, frankly. I've always grinded for a goal, and now that i ran out of goals I've stopped grinding. i'm actually going to pay my sub with money rather than PLEXes, don't feel like grinding for a PLEX so I can keep ginding for a PLEX.... So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á
Why should I keep paying to play this game? |
Torin Corax
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cregg Neir wrote:Question to OP: Why do you need other people to play the same way you do? Why do you need other people to tell you why they play the game their way?
While I think the OP could of worded the question a little differently, I'll admit to a certain curiosity on this subject.
-Is it the Isk generated that is the reward for such people? If not, what does the isk get used for?
- Does anyone actually find running the same missions over and over to be fun and/ or interesting? (Having spent my early Eve career as a mission runner/ ratter, I find missions to be extremely boring. Possibly some of the most underdeveloped PvE content in any game I've played. The limited number of missions and entirely predictable nature of those that exist is just dull).
- Given that generating Isk through missioning lacks anything approaching a challenge for an experienced mission runner, just how satisfying/ rewarding are they? Could they be made more so in the view of a full-time missioner? (not talking isk reward here).
Not suggesting that there is anything wrong with this type of play, but having tried it myself I am curious as to the attraction of it.
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Spurty
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
66
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Morbidly curious about this myself.
Imagine the train wreck if everyone in empire moved to 0.0
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:What makes you think that living in high sec has to be cheap? Faction mods, T3 ships and so forth as examples.
Yes they cost isk but after you have them, they keep grinding isks, you cant tell me they grind isk just to have more isk?
if they grind isk for PLEX its because they wish to keep playing they have a goal they want to reach, but if there goal is simply
GRIND ISK - BUY PLEX - GRIND MORE ISK BUY MORE PLEX
That just looks unhealthy.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
|
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
As far as I'm concerned I am playing the game. Forgive me if I think it's the height of arrogance to assume because I'm not playing it like you do, I can't be playing the game. I don't intend to list all the things I do to amuse myself in EVE so you can in the same vein as this post try to discount them one by one using your rationale. Suffice to say, I have my own rationale.
Thanks for your concern. We're having a ball in the shallow end of the pool.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
StillBorn CrackBaby
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Take no part in the game? Bugger off, I do as I please with my account and I don't care if you think I have to be in null to be "taking part"... |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
This was a long post about the way WoW keeps its subscribers addicted to the game by a means of constantly triggering the reward system of the brain and a comparison to the horrible reward system EvE uses but,
the forums happened and it was lost for ever. I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
233
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Take no part in the game?
You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.
Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet.
Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
okst666
Not Solitude Again Chained Reactions
28
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Its about numbers on the wallet... The bigger the better. PLUS grinding mission helps to kill time between two skills.
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
there i changed the wording I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would imagine the ability to have content whenever you want it. 23/7 is pretty good reason. No hostiles, no rules, just play like you want.
Waiting around for endless hours chasing the :gudfight: in lowsec/nullsec is not for everybody, nor is listening to endless whines about the red cloakers in the sanctum systems. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Why is it you play EvE if you take no part in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
Personally i don't see the benefit of moving to null. I want to be powerful and do big things in EVE and i can't just walk into a null sec corp/alliance and have any real input. I'll just be someones ***** roaming around in a massive blob ganking rifters.
The only thing that would make me check null sec out, is if territory holders could change the sec status of their systems, creating a safe passage rout for me... This i might be willing to make the journey up they're to see what it's like.
Wormhole space is where it's at! |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
125
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't qualify to answer because I'm an industrialist, but let me hazard a guess on this one.
I went to nullsec and joined an alliance for a while about 2 or 3 years ago. What I discovered was that in order to live out there and contribute in any meaningful way to the efforts of an alliance, you have to be online playing a lot. Otherwise you miss out on things, and eventually the leaders start asking why you don't show up for OPs. Industrialists were generally disregarded (this may have changed by now or may depend on what alliance you are in). Ultimately, it isn't much fun trying to play with people who don't respect what you like to do, and when you are able to do it.
So why do some folks stick to highsec and play solo?
Probably because they play irregularly and don't want to deal with ANY drama about it in their relaxing game playing time. Imagine dealing with work hassles all day, get home and deal with your kids/pets/spouses...and when that magic moment finally comes when you have a spare hour to yourself, you have to deal with the gamers who have more freedom than you do tell you that you suck because you don't play more and help out the corp.
That's why. |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
-Spaceships are cool. -Explosions are pretty. -The thunder of guns is satisfying. -Seeing more money coming in that going out isn't something I get to see a lot in real life :P
But mostly, I don't have the time to invest in a corp. I only play when I feel like it, and when things like Skyrim come along, I may not log in for weeks. That doesn't make me a good asset to a corp. Things like POS's require upkeep and protection, so I can't even effectively homestead my own place. I could low-sec pvp, but I don't play enough to generate the income to keep up that sort of lifestyle, since I'll probably lose a lot of ships learning.
So what is there for someone like me to do that isn't mining boring, but pays well? Mission. Content that is always there, always ready, and based on my timetable. Beholden to no one's schedule or desires but my own.
And you act like I never buy anything. Like my isk mountain just grows and grows and I sleep on it like some sort of really awesome space dragon. I buy better modules. I dump salvage into the system. I buy a crap ton of ammunition. I buy rigs and better tractors for my salvage boat. I buy scout ships for when I want to just fly around the universe for no damn reason other than to see the sights. True, I've been saving for a Machariel, so I have some wealth amassed, but I also bought a Tornado a couple days ago just because it was so sweet looking. I don't even have a use for it. But boom, 51 mill in someone's pocket.
I play the game the way I've found it works for me. No one gets to tell me whether that's right or wrong. It is mine. |
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Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ugh. That allegory is one of the worst justifications of woo ever. It forms the basis of every tyranny known to man. "Force them out, they'll thank us later." It's too bad that of all the great Greek philosophers, Plato is the most remembered. |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
first off the wording of your post can easily be taken as offensive, you will probably will get a lot of troll/bail posts
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Why is it you play EvE if you take no part in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
i do leave high sec on a a regular basis, but i can still answer your questions
we do play the game, its a sandbox therefore there is no wrong way to play it. personally one of the most enjoyable things i do in eve is to buy a new ship fit it and fly it around and do nothing with it at all. this activity is not cheep in the slightest, in fact owning almost every sub capital, and a handful of capital ships in the game takes a lot of money. adding on the fact that i have pvp and pve fits for each one makes it that much more costly.
i make a lot of isk in game, but i only have 500 mil right now, i dont hoard it all, i spend it.
eve to me is about spaceships and space, therefore that is the game i play. and believe me, i have seen a lot of space and been in a lot of spaceships.
[quote[ This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)[/quote]
your view on highsec players is a lot like many highsec players view on low/nul sec players. it stems of ignorance on the subject. highsec people are not all carebears, or people that cant "cut it in the real game" there are many of us that just enjoy what eve is about and dont want to deal or put up with the game nulsec players have made.
highsec players dont want to leave highsec because they are playing the game they want to play there. why people have a problem with this is beyond me. and its even better if they just hoard all the money. hoarded money never enters the market. people like me are the problem, i make a lot of isk, and place that isk directly into the market.
the goons are doing the same, they are forcing people to use their ISK surplus buy new ships. there has been more ISK injected into the market in the last couple months because of it. hell look at plex prices, they are so high because the value of ISK is so low. |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote: Thanks for your concern. We're having a ball in the shallow end of the pool.
Just so you know...that's not part of the pool. That's the urinal. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
232
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
There are also those that do Incursions while the sun shines then replace ships during war declarations. They prefer the controlled conflicts based on intelligence rather than the random encounters of low sec roams. Thus the reason they have no interest in going outside of high sec. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
the only people that could possibly answer my question seam to keep assuming im going to say there playing the game wrong and refuse to answer
i know why null sec people do null
i know why low sec people stay in low sec
i know why people live in WHs
i know why people that do indy stuff do it
they all have goals they wish to reach be it Getting kills, building stuff, exploring, building a empier, farming isk for new ships.
But then there's the group of people that don't do any of that but still actively play eve ever day and farm isk and do so filed with glee for it, with no goal that i can see besides getting more isk to do nothing with it, i keep assuming they MUST have a goal to keep playing or there is no reason to play.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like to believe I don't fall under anyones prepackaged labels.
Ships cost, mods cost. No matter how good you are you will eveentually lose your ship even in PVE. Get scrammed while depending on Centurylink as your ISP and by-by shiney T3. Thta's where the ISK goes when not in PVP mode. While PVP mode it goes even faster.
You ask why we play the game. I can't tell you why "we" play the game. I can tell you why I play the game, it's for the spaceships! I love spaceships, everything else in game is just a distraction while flying my spaceship.
As far as joining a group, I find that the more people in agroup the more asshats you have to deal with. Another issue is every Jita scammer, every asshat scanning you on your way home from the market is someone's alt. I don't trust you becasue I don't know who your alt is, if you even bother to hide your asshatedness.
-á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:the only people that could possibly answer my question seam to keep assuming im going to say there playing the game wrong and refuse to answer
i know why null sec people do null
i know why low sec people stay in low sec
i know why people live in WHs
i know why people that do indy stuff do it
they all have goals they wish to reach be it Getting kills, building stuff, exploring, building a empier, farming isk for new ships.
But then there's the group of people that don't do any of that but still actively play eve ever day and farm isk and do so filed with glee for it, with no goal that i can see besides getting more isk to do nothing with it, i keep assuming they MUST have a goal to keep playing or there is no reason to play.
i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it.
they are playing the game, they might not need goals other then "i want that new ship". i havent had a long term goal in even in close to a year, and i am fine with that.
i think its time you ask yourself a question. what kind of answer are you looking for? because i dont think you are even looking for one. people are telling you why they stay in highsec. and amass wealth, your just not accepting their answer |
Nex apparatu5
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Ugh. That allegory is one of the worst justifications of woo ever. It forms the basis of every tyranny known to man. "Force them out, they'll thank us later." It's too bad that of all the great Greek philosophers, Plato is the most remembered.
It's incredibly ironic you could be so wrong on your interpretation, mostly because this applies to people like you. |
El Boracho
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Its a sandbox game so people play the areas that amuse them. You don't need to understand why. They don't need to explain it to you. Get over yourself you are no better then them.
|
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
A friend of a friend once told me
"THERE BE DRAGONS" ....
So I remained in hi sec ever since, with this alt anyway. |
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Notice that most people who attacked the OP apply a false dichotomy between the "OP's way" and "their way". They respond "why should I play your way?", despite the fact that the OP specified a very specific group of players and asked the very general question "why don't you do anything else?".
It's like asking a soccer player why they play soccer, and getting "why should I play your sport?" as the answer.
The common wisdom holds true; those who sit in empire and do basically nothing have no knowledge of the game, and thus lump 99% of the activities in it into one alternative playstyle which they then reject. Notice that some people mention not wanting to go to null, which doesn't even answer the question, since the OP mentioned goals like playing the markets or funding a new ship purchase.
There's the answer to the OP's question: They don't do what they do because they have a reason to do it, they do it because they signed up and then preemptively rejected 99% of the content of the game, leaving them with only endless mining or missioning or what have you. Everything else is terribad PvP-land, and you better not suggest they get involved.
(inb4 miners/missioners/whatever who do actually take part in the game think I'm talking about them and get butthurt) |
SpaceSquirrels
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:What makes you think that living in high sec has to be cheap? Faction mods, T3 ships and so forth as examples. Yes they cost isk but after you have them, they keep grinding isks, you cant tell me they grind isk just to have more isk? if they grind isk for PLEX its because they wish to keep playing they have a goal they want to reach, but if there goal is simply GRIND ISK - BUY PLEX - GRIND MORE ISK BUY MORE PLEX That just looks unhealthy.
Man makes a point.
Whats the goal?
Just eat time?
Granted I suppose some people could just like doing missions for missions sake.
But really the question is whats the driving force? |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Ugh. That allegory is one of the worst justifications of woo ever. It forms the basis of every tyranny known to man. "Force them out, they'll thank us later." It's too bad that of all the great Greek philosophers, Plato is the most remembered. It's incredibly ironic you could be so wrong on your interpretation, mostly because this applies to people like you.
Uh huh. Someone that spends any time in self-reflection might consider for a moment that claims like that are too easy to make for them to be meaningful. Plato should have spent more time on that and less time finding fault with everyone around him. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it. I don't think you (and the others giving similar answers) understand the question. He is asking why people who don't have a goal bother to endlessly farm.
If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
91
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:
i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it.
they are playing the game, they might not need goals other then "i want that new ship". i havent had a long term goal in even in close to a year, and i am fine with that.
i think its time you ask yourself a question. what kind of answer are you looking for? because i dont think you are even looking for one. people are telling you why they stay in highsec. and amass wealth, your just not accepting their answer
that post was written and posted before i had gotten the notification about the other posters.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Conath
Tax Paradise
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm master of mint and i want more ISK !!!!! |
Rykuss
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:depending on Centurylink as your ISP
Yeah. Can I have your vindicator? |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
150
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Morbidly curious about this myself.
Imagine the train wreck if everyone in empire moved to 0.0
you called? CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
150
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
im just going to assume that everyone who just missions all day long must be a zombie
SPACE ZOMBIES!!!!! CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it. I don't think you (and the others giving similar answers) understand the question. He is asking why people who don't have a goal bother to endlessly farm. If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you. Your assertion is based on the assumption that having a goal is necessary. For some people, that is not a valid statement. Some people just like the pretty lights, or the big numbers in their account, or the fact that they're in space. 'Having a goal' is not a necessary part of their play structure. |
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Torin Corax
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
1
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Posted - 2011.12.08 18:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
El Boracho wrote:Its a sandbox game so people play the areas that amuse them. You don't need to understand why.
It's not about need, it's simply curiosity coupled with a desire to see the game from the Pov of someone who plays it in a different way with different motivations. Since when has open discourse and attempting to be more understanding of others been a bad thing?
Quote:They don't need to explain it to you.
No "they" don't. Neither do you. But if someone chooses to enlighten the OP (and other interested parties) then kudos to them for being open and sociable. If you don't want to answer the questions then don't, this is not a forced interrogation :)
Quote:Get over yourself you are no better then them.
Please point out where the OP said that people who play this way are inferior to him/ her. We pays out money, we plays our game. Fair enough, but it's not illegal to express curiosity towards other playstyles.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
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Posted - 2011.12.08 18:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:Your assertion is based on the assumption that having a goal is necessary. For some people, that is not a valid statement. Some people just like the pretty lights, or the big numbers in their account, or the fact that they're in space. 'Having a goal' is not a necessary part of their play structure. I like all those things. I still wouldn't just sit and mission endlessly when there is so much more that can be done.
It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rykuss wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:depending on Centurylink as your ISP Yeah.
I switched to WOW cable a couple months ago. Faster connection, drops only last a second. Centurylink hours to days. On the other hands I have been getting DCed 3 or 4 times and hour for the last couple weeks. I don't know if it's Eve or WOW but I can log back in immediately. Not a problem in most PVE situations, a major killer in PVP. -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Beaches
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
I like PVP but I don't like PVP+killboards
because they turn PVP into PVBlob more often than not
Also, I really can't stand killboard whores and that is my right. I have the right to hate anyone I want. I just can't stand them or their slimy entrails all over wherever they go.
I love PVP so it was a looong process coming to the conclusion that I'd just rather not. But I like the EVE sandbox, space and spaceships so much that I'd like to stay and do non PVP
I don't like PVE that much either though as I find it tedious and boring
So this final conclusion to not bother with PVP cost me a lot of SP on different characters, as they did not translate into missions and i'm transitioning into industry, as I've had experience with trade before and the only problem I found with it was monotony which I think science and industry can break. |
Roscada
We love Egg
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Some of us are collectors. I have plenty of expensive shinies that will never see anything but spinning. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Aeril Malkyre wrote:Your assertion is based on the assumption that having a goal is necessary. For some people, that is not a valid statement. Some people just like the pretty lights, or the big numbers in their account, or the fact that they're in space. 'Having a goal' is not a necessary part of their play structure. I like all those things. I still wouldn't just sit and mission endlessly when there is so much more that can be done. It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree.
I believ some people do infact stare at a tree for six hours. I think thier may even be a religion based around that activity. -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Jack Traynor
One More Corp
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Don't you guys ever get tired of asking the same crap day after day? What do you care how other other people play the game? Do you have some internet-driven need to feel superior over other people?
Get over it already. You play your game, and let them play theirs. Period. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jack Traynor wrote: You play your game, and let them play theirs. See, here it is again. XD |
Handsome Hussein
187
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
There's a lot of butt-hurt in this thread over a simple question about goals in-game. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Aeril Malkyre wrote:Your assertion is based on the assumption that having a goal is necessary. For some people, that is not a valid statement. Some people just like the pretty lights, or the big numbers in their account, or the fact that they're in space. 'Having a goal' is not a necessary part of their play structure. I like all those things. I still wouldn't just sit and mission endlessly when there is so much more that can be done. It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree. I would proffer that they get to shoot the tree with lasers, to follow your analogy. That can be cool enough it seems. There are some like me with limited play time, for whom shooting red crosses (to you) may seem pointless, but consider: I am an immortal post-human cyborg. I pilot an enormous mountain of steel that spits fire at pirates, through space, against a backdrop of stars and planets and moons and space stations. I send this mountain into a transdimensional slipstream with a thought, traveling faster than light itself.
That's a pretty great way to spend an hour. And it's enough. |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
274
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
I think the OP has good questions but let's be clear about something.
Is this a matter of not wanting to go to 0.0 simply out of not wanting to go or is this a matter of not wanting to go to 0.0 on the terms of the people who are already there?
|
Proteus Maximus
New Eden Outcasts Malicious Intent Gentleman's Club
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
I play the game in what ever way brings me good times & relaxation. I don't set long term goals & try not to over commit to an organization. Why? life is fluid & at any given moment I can log out and not back in except to skill for weeks. Contrary to popular belief ya don't need to be isk filthy rich to have fun. The folks you choose to surround your self with & your skills are what matters. Ive done a lot in my Eve career & by far indiscriminately killin folk with a bunch of like minded filthy scallywags has brought me the most joy to date. The runner up is finding the rare ballsy high sec corp who will fight a smaller group of aggressors (head to head no neutral Rep bs) for good times and lulz. Null sec? Maybe some day. . . As it is now the big boys are happy to not **** in each others pools. With no hope of epic full scale invasions changing the map & making history. . . Not worth my time. . No thanks. Eve... It's just a better class of Idiot. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quote:a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
This *usually* applies to me so I'll answer that. -manufacturing is dominated by people with skills invested in it. I found a niche market I could make a small profit in for a while, but it got boring. -market is just not appealing to me, I never played AH games in other mmos either. -no pvp because it doesn't seem especially viable to do solo, I've mostly kept playing via PLEX which makes it hard to afford pvp, and I prefer my pvp to be casual and relatively consequence free. -no corp roles because I don't fancy being exposed to wardecs or any semi-mandatory scheduled activities. My interest in Eve comes and goes, sometimes I might not do anything beyond the skill queue for weeks at a time. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Beaches wrote:I like PVP but I don't like PVP+killboards
because they turn PVP into PVBlob more often than not
Also, I really can't stand killboard whores and that is my right. I have the right to hate anyone I want. I just can't stand them or their slimy entrails all over wherever they go.
I love PVP so it was a looong process coming to the conclusion that I'd just rather not. But I like the EVE sandbox, space and spaceships so much that I'd like to stay and do non PVP
I don't like PVE that much either though as I find it tedious and boring
So this final conclusion to not bother with PVP cost me a lot of SP on different characters, as they did not translate into missions and i'm transitioning into industry, as I've had experience with trade before and the only problem I found with it was monotony which I think science and industry can break.
I don't care about any of it. I used to play for spaceships, now I'm playing to stalk your avatar. I want to do creepy cyber things to your avatar.
Now we have that cleared up, It put the damn lotion on! -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think the OP has good questions but let's be clear about something.
Is this a matter of not wanting to go to 0.0 simply out of not wanting to go or is this a matter of not wanting to go to 0.0 on the terms of the people who are already there?
I don't think you can separate the two. Going to null requires being on the terms of those that live there, at some point. |
baltec1
231
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
I too wonder why people avoid 90% of this game.
I guess they must really enjoy pimp my golem http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11817308 |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:I don't think you can separate the two. Going to null requires being on the terms of those that live there, at some point. Well you could imagine a world where 0.0 wasn't **** and respond "I would go to 0.0 if it wasn't ****" :D |
Jenshae Chiroptera
232
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
High sec core players are playing the game, while choosing the safest option. It is a mindset. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:I would proffer that they get to shoot the tree with lasers, to follow your analogy. Shooting a tree with lasers is so awesome in real life that it isn't currently possible except for those with access to experimental weapons.
However, in EVE, shooting ships, piloting a giant blah blah, being an immortal whatsit, all that stuff is par for the course. So I think that only shooting NPCs (or asteroids) is about the simplest thing you could do. So it's like staring at a tree; not bad in itself, just lacking compared to the other options. |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Shooting a tree with lasers is so awesome in real life that it isn't currently possible except for those with access to experimental weapons.
However, in EVE, shooting ships, piloting a giant blah blah, being an immortal whatsit, all that stuff is par for the course. So I think that only shooting NPCs (or asteroids) is about the simplest thing you could do. So it's like staring at a tree; not bad in itself, just lacking compared to the other options. Which is a valuation judgment that the player makes. To you, it is not on par with other experiences. For someone else, it may be. it may be all they have time for, or it may legitimately be interesting to them. That it is not interesting to you is immaterial. Encouraging people to experience the whole game is fine. But passing judgment on how they play, or which part they play, or any other matter that is their choice is simply fallacious. |
|
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:This was a long post about the way WoW keeps its subscribers addicted to the game by a means of constantly triggering the reward system of the brain and a comparison to the horrible reward system EvE uses but,
the forums happened and it was lost for ever.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "skill training completed" dialogue triggers that very same reward centre. It even works the same way as WoW. Frequent meaningful boosts from skill training at the start, but then it takes longer and longer to get smaller and small boosts.
|
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it. I don't think you (and the others giving similar answers) understand the question. He is asking why people who don't have a goal bother to endlessly farm. If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you.
i dont think you (and the others asking similar questions) understand the answer, i am saying people dont need a goal. you might, i might, but not everyone does.
a friend of mine enjoys organizing absolutely everything, alphabetically, numerically, chronologically. i think its bat sh*t crazy and the most boring thing in the entire world, but he likes it. for him that's enough. i am over it and moved on.
its time you move on as well, just because you don't find enjoyment out of doing something, doesn't mean others cant. just because you don't feel that the act of doing something (that you find boring) and enjoying it justifies the act of doing it anyway, doesn't mean others need to stop.
this is a sandbox, this means that people play they way they want and its not the wrong way to play.
the miners can mine the goons can gank those mining the mission runners can keep running missions and the nulsec players can keep on doing their thing
they are all valid playstyles and your opinion on what they are doing, or how fun you find those activities, doesnt matter. when people say "i keep the money because i like to see how high i can get he numbers", or "i want to buy a new ship", or "because i can" is enough.
this has been said more many people here, accept the answer and move on.
|
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
491
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
71
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:02:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
Everyone should play like me. It is the only way to play Eve.
See how stupid that sounds? Honestly, take a step back and just think about what you're saying. People constantly talk about "the sandbox"(lol what a joke) of Eve, but require everybody plays like them. How is that a sandbox?
Am I the only one that sees how stupid that sounds? |
baltec1
231
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:
Everyone should play like me. It is the only way to play Eve.
See how stupid that sounds? Honestly, take a step back and just think about what you're saying. People constantly talk about "the sandbox"(lol what a joke) of Eve, but require everybody plays like them. How is that a sandbox?
Am I the only one that sees how stupid that sounds?
I think its rather daft to never even try that vast bulk of things you can do in EVE. Cant say you don't like it if you have never done it before. |
Borisaurus
Venant Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Ugh. That allegory is one of the worst justifications of woo ever. It forms the basis of every tyranny known to man. "Force them out, they'll thank us later." It's too bad that of all the great Greek philosophers, Plato is the most remembered. It's incredibly ironic you could be so wrong on your interpretation, mostly because this applies to people like you. Uh huh. Someone that spends any time in self-reflection might consider for a moment that claims like that are too easy to make for them to be meaningful. Plato should have spent more time on that and less time finding fault with everyone around him.
Implying Platonic Idealism is removed from self reflection. Implying Plato didn't spend his time in a useful manner. Implying it's Plato's fault and not Socrates. Implying. www.aestheticsandspacecraft.tumblr.com |
Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ok, I couldn't resist. Shooting a tree with lasers IRL is definitely possible, and is surprisingly inexpensive. The difficulty lies in dealing with the fire department and police later. You just have to select your target area with care. And unless you want serious trouble, don't aim at people, aircraft, buildings or vehicles!!
More on topic: Doing anything just about anywhere IRL involves dealing with people who feel it their mission in life to "supervise" your actions and cause you grief if you don't measure up to their expectations. Who needs that in an online game, too? The OP should expect some pushback from those who perceive a bias in his question. I suspect that those he is inquiring about, if they really exist, don't really want others to catch on to their way of playing the game, anyway.
|
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
Eve is the biggest market simulator on the internet. Everything you do has an impact on others and watching your wallet flash from income is quite a nice thing. Maybe others dont understand why I enjoy Eve if I dont take part in PvP, but thats okay, they have another point of view. I have mine. But if they say I dont contribute to this game they are just plain wrong. Because I know I do very much.
What I do with my iskies?
Well enjoy having them, fitting new ship designs or training chars I might like to play in the future (yep, even PvP chars, but didnt bother to use them yet) and longing for more WiS stuff so I can play "Space Sims"... ;-) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. The Lostboys
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
I do not really meet your criterion as I do go into low and W (in fact this pilot lives in W, but all my others are in high sec). Also I do interact with corp and alliance members, help them, and so on.
But I also have been closely following the discussions between those who like non-pvp type play and those that do, and tried to find the difference. The best Ive figured out is some people get The Rush, and some do not.
The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.
People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Rykuss
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:There's a lot of butt-hurt in this thread over a simple question about goals in-game.
There's a lot of butt-hurt, and asinine explainations for why people should justify their style of play, in this thread. Can I have your vindicator? |
|
Handsome Hussein
189
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zevina wrote:Eve is the biggest market simulator on the internet. Everything you do has an impact on others and watching your wallet flash from income is quite a nice thing. OP wasn't directed at you, at least as I read it.
You answered an unobtrusive question in a direct and polite manner, others get completely ******* unhinged at the mere suggestion that someone might judge their playstyle, probably because they can't really think of a reason why they do those things in the first place. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
551
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
As an Isk check to isk check sorta person I donnot enjoy 0.0 activies which try to persistently put me into the red and the ratting and null grinding was ever so much more costly than the pvp. Well... technically the ratting involved pvp but alas I had some plenty of insecure neighborhoods in null where ratting was much more dangerous than fleet ops.
|
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
71
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:
Everyone should play like me. It is the only way to play Eve.
See how stupid that sounds? Honestly, take a step back and just think about what you're saying. People constantly talk about "the sandbox"(lol what a joke) of Eve, but require everybody plays like them. How is that a sandbox?
Am I the only one that sees how stupid that sounds?
I think its rather daft to never even try that vast bulk of things you can do in EVE. Cant say you don't like it if you have never done it before.
I agree, but who is knocking it? You don't see carebears telling people to stop killing each other. Although they tell people to stop killing them(I think we all can get behind that, nobody enjoys getting owned). Also, what if they tried it, and just didnt care for it at all? Now they just sit in Dodixie and run missions all day.
It's a video game FFS, let people do whatever the hell they want. As long as it's not against the rules. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
177
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Trainwreck McGee wrote:im just going to assume that everyone who just missions all day long must be a zombie
SPACE ZOMBIES!!!!!
They're in league with Sansha! KILL THEM NAO! |
Nephilius
Repo.
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:54:00 -
[75] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it. I don't think you (and the others giving similar answers) understand the question. He is asking why people who don't have a goal bother to endlessly farm. If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you.
Maybe just playing a game you like and relaxing after the hassles of the day IS the goal, without having to worry about everyone else. I'd wager that if there was a single player version of the game, a lot of people would play that instead.
It's kind of like Black Ops...sometimes I don't want to be bothered with multiplayer, so I would play Combat Training instead. When I didn't have to worry about the morons sprinkled in for flavor, I could screw around and have fun. Fun is the goal, and each person plays his or her way to achieve that. Trying to make it just about isk, ships, pew, without taking any other possibility in mind, and you will never understand every person's reason for playing the way they do If you bring down a giant, you're a hero. If you kill something weak-even if it has to die-then you will endure contempt. |
Zuevil
Tsuna Tide
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:14:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jack Traynor wrote:Don't you guys ever get tired of asking the same crap day after day? What do you care how other other people play the game? Do you have some internet-driven need to feel superior over other people?
Get over it already. You play your game, and let them play theirs. Period.
Enough Said...
Why should anyone tell you why they play? Yes you may ask but, that only makes you a nosy, arrogant, intrusive wannabe. Just mind your own business and play the game.
Crumplecorn wrote:Notice that most people who attacked the OP apply a false dichotomy between the "OP's way" and "their way". They respond "why should I play your way?", despite the fact that the OP specified a very specific group of players and asked the very general question "why don't you do anything else?".
It's like asking a soccer player why they play soccer, and getting "why should I play your sport?" as the answer.
Very good observation! Totally agree on this.
Jack Traynor wrote:The common wisdom holds true; those who sit in empire and do basically nothing have no knowledge of the game, and thus lump 99% of the activities in it into one alternative playstyle which they then reject. Notice that some people mention not wanting to go to null, which doesn't even answer the question, since the OP mentioned goals like playing the markets or funding a new ship purchase.
There's the answer to the OP's question: They don't do what they do because they have a reason to do it, they do it because they signed up and then preemptively rejected 99% of the content of the game, leaving them with only endless mining or missioning or what have you. Everything else is terribad PvP-land, and you better not suggest they get involved.
Mind sharing the survey results, and/or any other means you have had to come up to this conclusion?
Whatever means you used, it missed me.
edit: typos |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:22:00 -
[77] - Quote
Borisaurus wrote:Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:
Uh huh. Someone that spends any time in self-reflection might consider for a moment that claims like that are too easy to make for them to be meaningful. Plato should have spent more time on that and less time finding fault with everyone around him.
Implying Platonic Idealism is removed from self reflection. Implying Plato didn't spend his time in a useful manner. Implying it's Plato's fault and not Socrates. Implying.
It most certainly is. Platonic Idealism has very little to do with anything. He mistakenly identified abstracting with purifying and concepts with entities....that's it really. He inverted the relationship between his Forms, which he thought were a pure form of the objects in this world that were missing something compared with that form; truth of the matter is that abstracting is the taking away of details and so the form is less than the real object.
As to the idea that there's a world of forms with an omniscient entity ruling over them all...that's pure religion, not philosophy. It doesn't help anything, it only invents new shadows and new chains. It's only arrogance that then allows one to claim that people not buying into your inventions are saddled with preconceptions and illusions, unable to break beyond.
I don't know if Plato spent his time in a useful manner or not. Creating a University seems like a useful pursuit to me. What I do know is that his treatises are a lot more about what's wrong with everyone else than any real inward looking. Perhaps it is difficult to blame him after watching an entire populace turn on one of the greatest thinkers of all time and murder him, but still--inventing Form World and implying that everyone ELSE is in chains and blinded by illusions is not very self-reflective.
Blaming it on Socrates isn't exactly legit either. There is a very clear difference between Socratic philosophy and Platonic. That Plato wrote words into Socrates's mouth should not imply that he actually said those things. It was a common practice of the age to make your arguments in the character of philosophical leaders; many still do it when they pit Socrates and Plato (or others) against each other in argument. The main difference you can see between the two versions of Socrates, the probably real one and Plato's characterization of him, is that the former asked a lot of questions while the latter had more answers. Socrates wouldn't have invented "forms" and other woo but instead shattered the preconceptions of his day by asking irritating questions. So no, Platonic Idealism and Form World cannot likely be "blamed" on Socrates, especially since his other students didn't all go down the same path as Plato. |
Swordfingers
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Some people simply want to amuse themselves by playing the game for a while. They don't need anything more specific and if grinding missions is the only thing they want or can do, then they do it and are happy with it. In my opinion, the need for having longterm goals or extensive longterm planing just for a effing game is a clear indication that you need drastically more real life asap. |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jack Traynor wrote: Do you have some internet-driven need to feel superior over other people?
Well, it's not driven by the Internet, but yeah...duh! |
decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
for me its simple, i dont really have time to comimit to a corp/allience, and i like mission running, so i do my missions in high sec cause i wont have buddys to help pull me out of the inevitable fire in low sec.
0.0 is for those in a allience who are demanding on your playtime and playstyle, i dont have much time to play so cant do this. low sec is frankly suicide for a lone player trying to do missions which is what i like to do.
so that leaves me with highsec, i fail to understand why other ppl cant understand this.
|
|
Torin Corax
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
Zuevil wrote:Jack Traynor wrote:Don't you guys ever get tired of asking the same crap day after day? What do you care how other other people play the game? Do you have some internet-driven need to feel superior over other people?
Get over it already. You play your game, and let them play theirs. Period. Enough Said... Why should anyone tell you why they play? Yes you may ask but, that only makes you a nosy, arrogant, intrusive wannabe. Just mind your own business and play the game.
Knowledge can lead to understanding. Understanding can lead to acceptance. Acceptance can lead to friendship. Friendship can lead to an increase in shared knowledge.
^This is something one of my teachers used to say to us. He would go on to say how an increase in shared knowledge can help society through technical innovation and/ or social reform. In game terms, an increased understanding of the motivations and goals of those who partake in different playstyles/ aspects of the game, could help in developing the game to be more enjoyable for all players rather than those who follow one particular path.
Curiosity, and a desire for greater understanding does not necessarily have anything to do with being arrogant or a "wannabe". It may even help prevent those who are guilty of being overly judgemental (as we all are at times, despite ourselves), to gain a greater empathy with our fellow gamers.
Call me nosey if you wish, I'm simply curious about the different aspects of the game, and how enjoyable people find them.
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:However, in EVE, shooting ships, piloting a giant blah blah, being an immortal whatsit, all that stuff is par for the course. So I think that only shooting NPCs (or asteroids) is about the simplest thing you could do. So it's like staring at a tree; not bad in itself, just lacking compared to the other options. Which is a valuation judgment that the player makes. To you, it is not on par with other experiences. For someone else, it may be. it may be all they have time for, or it may legitimately be interesting to them. That it is not interesting to you is immaterial. Encouraging people to experience the whole game is fine. But passing judgment on how they play, or which part they play, or any other matter that is their choice is simply fallacious. That is is lacking is not a judgement I make. Doing missions + Other stuff > Doing missions Simples.
People having no time makes sense. People finding the PvE content in this game legitimately interesting? That's a rare one. PvE players are normally crying out for content that isn't terrible.
And I will pass judgement on people who choose to play a game whose only real selling point is that it is a multiplayer sandbox, and who then hide in one little corner of the sandbox and avoid other players. Much like if you bought an FPS and refused to shoot anyone in it, certainly it is your prerogative, but I'm still going to think that maybe you're not firing on all cylinders. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you (and the others asking similar questions) understand the answer, i am saying people dont need a goal. you might, i might, but not everyone does. If you don't have a goal, you are just seeking mindless gratification. Like someone who takes drugs, for instance.
Hecatonis wrote:a friend of mine enjoys organizing absolutely everything, alphabetically, numerically, chronologically. i think its bat sh*t crazy and the most boring thing in the entire world, but he likes it. for him that's enough. i am over it and moved on. There's a pretty obvious goal behind organising things.
Hecatonis wrote:this is a sandbox, this means that people play they way they want and its not the wrong way to play. This is the real crux of the issue, for me. These people typically complain if anyone goes near them, or if any changes affect them. Thing is, this is a multiplayer sandbox. You want to go hide in the corner, that's fine. It's the ones who then complain about the presence of other people, or about how the game doesn't cater solely to them, that bother me.
The cry of "I can play this way if I want" quickly turns into "I should be able to play however I want (undisturbed)", with some people.
That's kind of tangential though. |
Borisaurus
Venant Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:49:00 -
[84] - Quote
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:It most certainly is. Platonic Idealism has very little to do with anything. He mistakenly identified abstracting with purifying and concepts with entities....that's it really. He inverted the relationship between his Forms, which he thought were a pure form of the objects in this world that were missing something compared with that form; truth of the matter is that abstracting is the taking away of details and so the form is less than the real object.
Implying that taking away the details, with respect to the forms, isn't the same as adding every single detail.
Quote:As to the idea that there's a world of forms with an omniscient entity ruling over them all...that's pure religion, not philosophy. It doesn't help anything, it only invents new shadows and new chains. It's only arrogance that then allows one to claim that people not buying into your inventions are saddled with preconceptions and illusions, unable to break beyond.
Implying that religion and philosophy are incompatible.
Quote:I don't know if Plato spent his time in a useful manner or not. Creating a University seems like a useful pursuit to me. What I do know is that his treatises are a lot more about what's wrong with everyone else than any real inward looking. Perhaps it is difficult to blame him after watching an entire populace turn on one of the greatest thinkers of all time and murder him, but still--inventing Form World and implying that everyone ELSE is in chains and blinded by illusions is not very self-reflective.
Implying he didn't start with himself (read: inward looking) when considering what was "wrong".
Quote:Blaming it on Socrates isn't exactly legit either. There is a very clear difference between Socratic philosophy and Platonic. That Plato wrote words into Socrates's mouth should not imply that he actually said those things. It was a common practice of the age to make your arguments in the character of philosophical leaders; many still do it when they pit Socrates and Plato (or others) against each other in argument. The main difference you can see between the two versions of Socrates, the probably real one and Plato's characterization of him, is that the former asked a lot of questions while the latter had more answers. Socrates wouldn't have invented "forms" and other woo but instead shattered the preconceptions of his day by asking irritating questions.
Implying the difference between early Plato and late Plato came as a result of thoughts not derived from Socratic methods.
Quote:So no, Platonic Idealism and Form World cannot likely be "blamed" on Socrates, especially since his other students didn't all go down the same path as Plato.
Implying all students taught by the same teacher have the same thoughts.
www.aestheticsandspacecraft.tumblr.com |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Eve General Discussion: Greek philosophy. But there's one they fear. They are told he is forahkiin, FORUMBORN~ |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
79
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
I used to qualify for you OP... then I decided to not take a 50 jump trip and just go through low sec. Brought it down to 17. Found out low sec wasn't that bad.
Anyway, back then, I was just getting used to the game, and didn't want to get into anything long term until I was sure that I would be in it for the long term. HS is good that way. You can leave for a while, come back, and you will still be able to fly about as before. |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:55:00 -
[87] - Quote
Well **** ot
i talk to my friends in game but i have nothing to do with any form of management as i got burned out being a CEO and now i hate all life in New Eden.
I go to lowsec for the luls as its not dangerous and i mission for the isk.
Also those pirate implants are not going to by themselves.
Ive been to nullsec and its ******. Everything is scanned down. Every idiot that comes in the system sends out the probes even through all you are going to do is fly away. pointless and tedious. Something Awful. A beacon for tearful, lonely neckbeards. |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you.
The OP's question doesn't really apply to anyone, or applies to so few people that it's improbable that any of them would be reading this forum to see it.
|
Davos Egivand
White Crescent Inc
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
Nephilius wrote: I'd wager that if there was a single player version of the game, a lot of people would play that instead.
What I would do for another Freelancer, or Escape Velocity. |
Titania Hrothgar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:08:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
I don't go into low sec because of local. It's a stupid tool in my opinion. I also don't like the auto-targeting afk gate camps. I don't mind pvp. If local was gotten rid of I'd venture into low sec more often, but then, I'd still hate the gate camps. There should be a way to scan through the gates.
This is simply my opinion. Titania Hrothgar |
|
Cipher Jones
137
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:12:00 -
[91] - Quote
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Serene Repose wrote: Thanks for your concern. We're having a ball in the shallow end of the pool.
Just so you know...that's not part of the pool. That's the urinal.
It becomes one when they let kids in anyway. Ahem.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Damian Goddard
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:13:00 -
[92] - Quote
Because it is fun for them? You might not see it as fun, but Eve wasn't created to suit one general playstyle. Eve was designed to suit ANY playstyle. When I first played this game in its infancy, I just mined-sold. That was it. Of course, I upgraded when I needed to and trained my skills, but the fun for me was simply extracting the ore and and selling it. That's it. Never needed to leave hi sec. What for? See, my job is complex and stressful and requires a great deal of sustained high-level brain function. It really is just relaxing to jump into Eve, and do something mundane, not unlike sitting on the couch and watching TV, or sitting on the front porch watching the night roll in. Hell, if I could see distant star systems from my front porch, probably wouldn't have to jump into Eve.
The point is, maybe we just enjoy the mundane, routine stuff like mining and mission running in hi sec. Who cares about the ISK? So many think Eve was created just to be a game of PvP and big business. It wasn't. It was designed to be a sandbox for people to do whatever the hell they want. |
Zuevil
Tsuna Tide
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:17:00 -
[93] - Quote
Davos Egivand wrote:What I would do for another Freelancer, or Escape Velocity.
Freelancer was a very nice game, you also have X3, just got an update and with all the mods and support I think its also a very good game, I just tend to get bored with them, once I first played an MMO I got addicted to them, now I play SP games only once in a while.
Plus, EvE is still (IMHO) a great game.
|
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:22:00 -
[94] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you (and the others asking similar questions) understand the answer, i am saying people dont need a goal. you might, i might, but not everyone does. If you don't have a goal, you are just seeking mindless gratification. Like someone who takes drugs, for instance.
Well yes. In fact I suspect the majority of people play games as mindless gratification. They are games, after all. Its the ones who get some deeper meaning out of it that are a rare and slightly strange bunch.
|
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:23:00 -
[95] - Quote
Borisaurus wrote: Implying that taking away the details, with respect to the forms, isn't the same as adding every single detail.
Shouldn't need to be implied, it's just silly.
Quote: Implying that religion and philosophy are incompatible.
Well, no...did not imply they were incompatible. I implied they were not the same.
On the other hand, religious thinking and philosophical thinking are quite clearly incompatible. One might be capable of both but one cannot pursue both with the same ambition nor practice both at the same time.
Quote: Implying he didn't start with himself (read: inward looking) when considering what was "wrong".
and....what?
Quote: Implying the difference between early Plato and late Plato came as a result of thoughts not derived from Socratic methods.
Flat out stated it actually, and it is pretty obvious. The further and further he got, the less and less like his former teacher he was even to the point of eventually no longer using him in character. You think just because he hated change that he was immune from changing or something?
And actually, Plato never really had the same philosophy as Socrates. Some people believe that the words of Socrates were Plato's in the early works, but I simply find too much difference between the two to believe that.
Quote: Implying all students taught by the same teacher have the same thoughts. Implying.
Nope. A little baffling how you arrive there actually.
At least you got the main gist though. |
Titania Hrothgar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
Also, as stated before in the thread I made recently, I'm not too keen on the idea that ships get progressively worse as they get larger. If I'm in a battlecruiser I shouldn't have to fear a couple of frigates. If I'm in a frigate I shouldn't be able to escape a cruiser. etc...
The "balance" of ships makes for very awkward pvp. Titania Hrothgar |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:30:00 -
[97] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Well yes. In fact I suspect the majority of people play games as mindless gratification. They are games, after all. Its the ones who get some deeper meaning out of it that are a rare and slightly strange bunch. Well, that's what EVE is here for, so I suggest you move along. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
102
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:32:00 -
[98] - Quote
Go out in low/null and pop other ppls ship ? I would never......
|
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
231
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:34:00 -
[99] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets. to Annoy people like you
Is there something you do with this isk? hoard it so people like you cant have it
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
if the people living in null sec or low sec weren't such douchebags more people might wanna go there.... sadly people are douchebags in null sec and low sec. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Borisaurus
Venant Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:37:00 -
[100] - Quote
Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Shouldn't need to be implied, it's just silly.
Implying silliness implies implications aren't needed.
Quote:Well, no...did not imply they were incompatible. I implied they were not the same.
On the other hand, religious thinking and philosophical thinking are quite clearly incompatible. One might be capable of both but one cannot pursue both with the same ambition nor practice both at the same time.
Implying Averroes, Al-Ghazali, Aquinas weren't training Multitasking V.
Implying ellipsis.
Quote:Flat out stated it actually, and it is pretty obvious. The further and further he got, the less and less like his former teacher he was even to the point of eventually no longer using him in character. You think just because he hated change that he was immune from changing or something?
And actually, Plato never really had the same philosophy as Socrates. Some people believe that the words of Socrates were Plato's in the early works, but I simply find too much difference between the two to believe that.
Implying I think there has change hate. Implying Plato's written words necessitating his belief in said words.
Quote:Nope. A little baffling how you arrive there actually.
At least you got the main gist though.
Implying you get the main gist. Implying.
www.aestheticsandspacecraft.tumblr.com |
|
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:56:00 -
[101] - Quote
The OP has it all wrong.
It doesn't matter WHY solo-style High-Sec, non-PvP players play as they do. Thats their choice, and they are welcome to it, for any reason they like.
The question SHOULD be to CCP as to why, unlike the vast majority of games, the CCP version of a "noobie zone" has the same (if not superior) level of reward/outcome as the deepest reaches of what would be CCP's "raiding area", i.e. nullsec.
The problem is CCP's, not the players. Players have every damn right to choose the easy, drama-free, risk-free portion of the game to enjoy, if thats why they enjoy. I support them on that 100%.
What they should not, IMO, have, is access to the same kinds of rewards as a low-sec or null-sec player has. Those rewards should be reserved for those who DO risk, DO take part in the social and political game, and DO put the kind of effort and isk on the line that nullsec and low-sec players do, daily.
No one would suggest that a 2-man "raid" in Durotar in WoW should drop equipment equal to that of the hardest Level 90-whatever end-game raid. Nor should high-sec mIssioning, an almost 100% risk-free activity with only basic player interaction and effort, be rewarded to the degree it is, i.e. more profitable than large swatches of null-sec.
There is only one reaosn why CCP would choose it to be this way, and it IS a very understandable reason. CCP is running a business, and carebear subs are subs, just liek any other, and CCP needs them.
If anyone should be angry, it's the poor saps living in low-sec, who get the worst of both worlds. More risk than null in many cases, and less reward than null or high-sec for doing it. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
232
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
When does a thread get long enough that people start reading the first page besides the OP? Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |
Alexa Coates
LNTC
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:05:00 -
[103] - Quote
I fall under the 'missioners who do nothing with their isk'
well, i do. I amass it up to atleast a bill, and splurge on something at that point, like a faction fitted navy thron or some other boat, or even a proteus. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:06:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:What makes you think that living in high sec has to be cheap? Faction mods, T3 ships and so forth as examples. Yes they cost isk but after you have them, they keep grinding isks, you cant tell me they grind isk just to have more isk? if they grind isk for PLEX its because they wish to keep playing they have a goal they want to reach, but if there goal is simply GRIND ISK - BUY PLEX - GRIND MORE ISK BUY MORE PLEX That just looks unhealthy.
And yet because of it this game still lives. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
Alistair Cononach wrote: The question SHOULD be to CCP as to why, unlike the vast majority of games, the CCP version of a "noobie zone" has the same (if not superior) level of reward/outcome as the deepest reaches of what would be CCP's "raiding area", i.e. nullsec.
No one would suggest that a 2-man "raid" in Durotar in WoW should drop equipment equal to that of the hardest Level 90-whatever end-game raid. Nor should high-sec mIssioning, an almost 100% risk-free activity with only basic player interaction and effort, be rewarded to the degree it is, i.e. more profitable than large swatches of null-sec.
Raiding areas in other mmos are generally safer than the lowbie zones. The former are in instanced bubbles and thus immune to any form of pvp interference, the latter are often populated by high level gankers from the opposite faction, if its a pvp server. Unsurprisingly, people graduate from these lowbie zones as fast as humanly possible, or ignore them altogether. by leveling through instanced dungeons or (consensual and level and numbers balanced) instanced pvp. |
Borisaurus
Venant Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
Alistair Cononach wrote:The problem is CCP's, not the players. Players have every damn right to choose the easy, drama-free, risk-free portion of the game to enjoy, if thats why they enjoy. I support them on that 100%.
What they should not, IMO, have, is access to the same kinds of rewards as a low-sec or null-sec player has. Those rewards should be reserved for those who DO risk, DO take part in the social and political game, and DO put the kind of effort and isk on the line that nullsec and low-sec players do, daily.
A few examples of things that low and null sec players have access to that high sec players do not have access to would be belt pirates worth more than 15,000 ISK and increasingly rare ores. The further away from high sec you get, the greater the disparity between what's available in high sec and what isn't. Clearly these rewards are not the same.
Some rewards may be too closely aligned when you compare high and null. But that only seeks to force high sec players into a playstyle that maximizes the rewards. It limits them more, I'd say. www.aestheticsandspacecraft.tumblr.com |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Aeril Malkyre wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:So I think that only shooting NPCs (or asteroids) is about the simplest thing you could do. So it's like staring at a tree; not bad in itself, just lacking compared to the other options. Which is a valuation judgment that the player makes. To you, it is not on par with other experiences. For someone else, it may be. it may be all they have time for, or it may legitimately be interesting to them. That it is not interesting to you is immaterial. Encouraging people to experience the whole game is fine. But passing judgment on how they play, or which part they play, or any other matter that is their choice is simply fallacious. That is is lacking is not a judgement I make. Doing missions + Other stuff > Doing missions Simples. That's not how math or subjective reality work :-) Especially if others consider your 'other stuff' to be valueless to them. Which they may well.
Quote:And I will pass judgement on people who choose to play a game whose only real selling point is that it is a multiplayer sandbox, and who then hide in one little corner of the sandbox and avoid other players. Much like if you bought an FPS and refused to shoot anyone in it, certainly it is your prerogative, but I'm still going to think that maybe you're not firing on all cylinders. The selling point is different for everyone. That this game is an MMO is a feature, just like anything else. It's also about spaceships. It's also about economics, politics, genocide, war, aggression, charity, education, creation, invention and any number of other themes. But still, what its selling points are is a matter of personal choice, personal preference.
The Devs hand us all the same toolset. Some people grab the hammer and just continually hit things. Other people pull out more and more tools from the box and build something complex. You can stare at the hammer kid like he's crazy all you want. He's having fun, and he's not hurting anyone. So let him be. This whole thread's intent (aside from the philosophical debate) seems to be to point at that kid and laugh at him for being weird.
Cause that always turns out so well. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1239
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:21:00 -
[108] - Quote
I've had far more fun in nullsec than I've ever had in high-sec. |
Anya Klibor
Nova Ardour
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.
Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. The only time they start shooting each other is when they want a little more space, or if someone pisses someone off. There was a good thread about people needing to stop with these non-aggression pacts. They complain day-in and day-out that they have "no one to shoot", and completely ignore the fact that they [b]have[/i] ships to blow up and people to shoot. They just need to stop being a bunch of dumbasses.
So, if they want to try to force me into their playground, then I'll stay away. They can watch me, with all my sexy, expensive ships. They can dec me, I'll evade. They can gank me, I'll escape. They expect us all to be carebears lacking knowledge. If anything, the fact that they whine so hard is proof that they are the carebears lacking knowledge.
Also, all my clones are like..3 bil alone. F*ck your bubble camping ret@rd friends. |
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:40:00 -
[110] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:any form of social interaction.
You know what CO-OP is?
Except very view ALL player "sozial interact" ... they just don't destroy other peoples fun but try to play with them. This is MORE sozial then your a-sozial destroying. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:40:00 -
[111] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:You can stare at the hammer kid like he's crazy all you want. That's exactly what I was saying in my last post. I can, and will. |
Dirty J0e
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
Why do I need a goal in an importants innernets spaceships game?
Why can't I log in and **** around with whatever amuses me, even if that is not something you would find fun? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
136
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:45:00 -
[113] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.
Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. . lol cognitive dissonance |
Matthias Azaharel
The Order of the Oar P R I M E
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:46:00 -
[114] - Quote
I tend towards the "hi-sec career missioner who does nothing with his ISK", although lately I've gone out of my way to find things to spend it on so that I can become more profitable and make more ISK. To me, the ISK is the reward. I treat my wallet balance like my "score" if this was a game with points.
I've dabbled in 0.0 and PvP. And when it happens it's great. My most memorable experiences in EVE were made flying in TEST fleets, no doubt. But there's SO MUCH downtime. And my short career in 0.0 felt like a lot of politics that I had no stake in. We were fighting for moons that made the alliance billions of ISK/month, and yet somehow everyone was constantly broke and I didn't feel like I filled any essential role. I realized that I could make more ISK more consistently by soloing missions in high-sec, so now I do.
Maybe if I find some way to become independently space-rich I'll take another stab at lawless space. I know how much cool stuff goes on out there, but for now I'm happy in the kiddie pool.
As an aside, maybe I'm generalizing, but low-sec/null-sec is no place for a solo pilot. If you want to make your mark, you generally need a fleet. I suspect a lot of the folks that have no interest in low-sec/null-sec tend to prefer solo operations. |
okst666
Not Solitude Again Chained Reactions
28
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:50:00 -
[115] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you reading what people are saying. they are answering you, maybe you dont like the answer, or maybe you dont understand it. I don't think you (and the others giving similar answers) understand the question. He is asking why people who don't have a goal bother to endlessly farm. If you have a goal, even jsut saving for new ships (which the OP specifically listed), the question doesn't apply to you. Your assertion is based on the assumption that having a goal is necessary. For some people, that is not a valid statement. Some people just like the pretty lights, or the big numbers in their account, or the fact that they're in space. 'Having a goal' is not a necessary part of their play structure.
signs this.
If you cannot understand that there are people without a goal...imagine theire goal is becoming the richest person in game through mission grinding.
Ask people working in a factory what their goals are... Its like mission grinding:
stand up..go to work...do things... go to home, eat, go to bed == log in, ask agent, do things, fly base, look wallet, log off
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Borisaurus wrote:Alistair Cononach wrote:The problem is CCP's, not the players. Players have every damn right to choose the easy, drama-free, risk-free portion of the game to enjoy, if thats why they enjoy. I support them on that 100%.
What they should not, IMO, have, is access to the same kinds of rewards as a low-sec or null-sec player has. Those rewards should be reserved for those who DO risk, DO take part in the social and political game, and DO put the kind of effort and isk on the line that nullsec and low-sec players do, daily. A few examples of things that low and null sec players have access to that high sec players do not have access to would be belt pirates worth more than 15,000 ISK and increasingly rare ores. The further away from high sec you get, the greater the disparity between what's available in high sec and what isn't. Clearly these rewards are not the same. Some rewards may be too closely aligned when you compare high and null. But that only seeks to force high sec players into a playstyle that maximizes the rewards. It limits them more, I'd say.
I don't really agree with your assessment -- highsec incursions are worth more per character than any 0.0 activity I'm aware of. A shiny fleet incursion runner can make 100m/h without too much effort. Belt ratting in 0.0 you would need 3 characters to make that much; mining bist or ark, if you have access to them, would also require three characters (2 hulks and an orca and hey presto you have a billion isk of **** in space that people can shoot). Santums (if you have access to them)? Two characters in carriers.
The income disparity between 0.0 and highsec is completely backwards. |
Pika Pedel
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:45:00 -
[117] - Quote
Hisec is a chill place for jewing and being an anon pubbie.
Everywhere else is a hectic place where my alts shoot those anon pubbies. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:46:00 -
[118] - Quote
Andski wrote:I've had far more fun in nullsec than I've ever had in high-sec.
Goons never were in high sec, except their alts doing incursions and buying/selling stuff and time to time so suicide ganking.
You should know that. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:52:00 -
[119] - Quote
~however~
I would also like to address the numerous individuals who have made the assertion that you have to join an alliance and pvp to live in 0.0. This assertion is entirely false. Although it requires some learning and specialized hardware, it is entirely possible to do your own thing solo in 0.0, and in relative safety. Although the range of activities available to you might be somewhat restricted. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 00:38:00 -
[120] - Quote
I am guilty of infraction A. For the first question. I really liked NPC corp chat and help chat, and sometimes local chat. It was turning into a forum for me, could just log on and talk and make posts in a way or troll people all day long. I also like the way SP or lvling works in EVE since its new for me, sometimes all I need is the SP and skill training to play the game and enjoy myself.
What I did with my isk? I gloated, would open wallet and watch all the numbers tumble and gloat even more. Read of people saying how poor they were and felt great and gloated, then would open wallet and watch numbers tumble while they are poor.
This post is funny, I logged on one day and thougth I lost at eve. I was sitting in a station all day, had 2 billion in wallet and had never pvped before. |
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Pika Pedel
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 00:55:00 -
[121] - Quote
rodyas wrote:This post is funny, I logged on one day and thougth I lost at eve. I was sitting in a station all day, had 2 billion in wallet and had never pvped before.
Haven't undocked from Jita4-4 in years crew checking in.
|
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 00:57:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:i know why null sec people do null
i know why low sec people stay in low sec
i know why people live in WHs
i know why people that do indy stuff do it
they all have goals they wish to reach be it Getting kills, building stuff, exploring, building a empier, farming isk for new ships.
But then there's the group of people that don't do any of that but still actively play eve ever day and farm isk and do so filed with glee for it, with no goal that i can see besides getting more isk to do nothing with it, i keep assuming they MUST have a goal to keep playing or there is no reason to play.
It's ok for people to not have a goal. If they're enjoying themselves, then it's time well spent.
|
Mediocrity
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:08:00 -
[123] - Quote
Basically, I look at EVE kind of like an updated version of that old game Freelancer. The added bonus of EVE is that it's also an evolving universe with a persistent history shaped by other players, and so the game is never really over.
For a nerd that likes spaceships, flying spaceships around that kind of universe is fun, even if I'm not directly involved in epic battles and the 0.0 sov game. When I log on, I see a news screen that updates with actual events that happened elsewhere in the galaxy. That's cool to me; it feels like being part of a sci-fi universe in a way that's not really possible with any other game.
As for goals, that's not why I play video games, and consequently why I'm not in a corporation. I get enough of planning, scheduling, tedium, pressure, and organizing in real life. I don't want to log in on somebody else's timetable like a job to be handed orders or assignments or be hollered at by a boss, nor do I want to be a nameless grunt in someone else's army.
I play when I feel like it, and do whatever I feel like when I'm online. Sometimes that means running a mission. Sometimes that means scanning a few systems to check out some some exploration sites or poke around in a wormhole. Sometimes I'll just fly around to see what I can find and admire the shiny lights. |
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
Well, I'm certainly not "A. making a lot of ISK", but, ignoring the sidetracks into philosophy, I'm probably like most people here, who's arguments basically boil down to "I want to control my own destiny, with the limited time I have available to me."
It would be fair to say that I'm "risk-averse" and therefore not getting into PvP because of that, but the factors contributing to that are:
- I'm not making enough ISK to replace any ships lost
- implants are expensive (and right now I'm grinding missions for standing so I can get my first jump-clone, so I don't have to worry so much about replacing 100mil in implants. It would be so much easier if we all start out with a jump clone, or at least make it easier to get one)
- I'm not in a player corp yet. I've been "casually" looking for a corp for the last few weeks, but it's just too damn easy to stay in an NPC corp.
Getting into a player corp is probably the most important thing, as the others will flow on from that, but it takes time to find the "right" corp.
My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap. |
Riley Moore
Perkone Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:20:00 -
[125] - Quote
Because I'm having fun in highsec and I don't have the time to do lowsec/0.0 pvp. (i've done the 0.0 wars up north.) Took too much of my time.
There's also the issue of financial pressure v time spend playing. To be most effective all my time had to go into PVP, which left little time to PVE(isk making). And Since I don't want to pay for 2+ accounts (scout alts), which is a required mechanic to survive, I funded them with plex, which was another financial pressure point.
Ps, I ended up with dualbox carrier setup, which was fun until you do an op and get hotdropped by 300 supercarriers. Then I decided to take a break and focus on my alt highsec bpo business (see sig).
Basically, I assume for most people the reward against the time/effort just isn't worth it, time being the major pressure point of low/0.0 pvp. If you only have one hour to play in an evening, you're not going to organize and pvp and fund your losses. It just doesn't work unless you're lucky. Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:24:00 -
[126] - Quote
Riley Moore wrote:To be most effective all my time had to go into PVP, which left little time to PVE(isk making). As I mentioned in another thread today, we really need to be rewarded for PvP, so we don't have to grind PvE for ISK. We can then focus on the bits that interest us (although I accept that there probably always needs to be a bit of grinding / empire building to give a broader, fuller, experience).
My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap. |
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 01:29:00 -
[127] - Quote
Once upon a time there was a player in the Bosena > Egbinger pipe who flew either a Dramiel or a Gila around and he shotted people. He was -10 all the time and he shotted people and he shotted people and he shotted people. Then one day on the forums I teased him about his playstyle. He answered straight back in a creepy, morbid paragraph that basically meant UMAD? Unfortunately I didn't read his reply, so he was left with my silence for him to reflect upon himself within. Haven't seen him online since.
Sometimes taking an objective look at yourself wrecks your everything. Criticism locates and identifies an enemy to be resisted. Resistance is not response.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Selinate
149
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
I do go into low *sometimes* (not really null though, unless it's a WH), but let me just say that when people gather large sums of isk and use it on the market, it is a form of PvP, and a fairly fun one at that :P |
Titania Hrothgar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:32:00 -
[129] - Quote
The cost of dying is too high for my tastes. I can take having to buy a new ship. Grudgingly... But even if I fly a shuttle into a gate camp, get ganked, get podded, and find myself back in my home station, I've just lost even more money because I have to upgrade my clone again.
So in short, I lose a ship, fitting, clone, and implants. All to a damn afk gate camp or to some pirate who happened to be staring at local. So solo in low sec? Not a chance. :) I tried to join a corp who had a foothold in low sec, but was told my skill points were too low. Sooo..... I'm still in high sec, running missions, playing with fittings, training skills, and having fun exploring Empire space from one end to the other :)
Avoid the Neutral Zone. It's just not worth it.
Titania Hrothgar |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 02:38:00 -
[130] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:i know why null sec people do null
i know why low sec people stay in low sec
i know why people live in WHs
i know why people that do indy stuff do it
they all have goals they wish to reach be it Getting kills, building stuff, exploring, building a empier, farming isk for new ships.
But then there's the group of people that don't do any of that but still actively play eve ever day and farm isk and do so filed with glee for it, with no goal that i can see besides getting more isk to do nothing with it, i keep assuming they MUST have a goal to keep playing or there is no reason to play.
Riiiiight. Zero Sec Lords accumulate massive isk piles and don't do anything with it either, do they? So how many PLEX did your Alliance Lords buy for you? None? Oh, I forgot, YOU'RE just a S C H M U C K in the kitchen guarding the pies and cake. YOU don't actually get to eat any of it, but they will buy you an new broom (ship) to sweep up the house when they call for it.
Now get of the forum. You're supposed to sweeping the back porch!
|
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Pinaculus
The High and Mighty
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 03:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
I played this game for a pretty long time having seldom left high-sec. I made my first trip, as a noob, to low-sec and got caught at a belt in my Navitas and podded.
I made my second trip to low-sec as a still noob mission runner. The mission took me to low sec, and some people waited for me to finish it before they tackled my slow Domi, blew it up, and podded me. I had no real idea why I was dying so easily, so I started reading about the mechanics and how PVP worked. I realized that the people that live in Low/Null are prepared for group PVP. They know the fits, have the alts, have the friends, know the territory, and have every advantage they can ahead of time. They have to. They're fighting other people like them.
I then realized that I didn't know what I was doing, and didn't have friends to teach me, and didn't have money to pay for alts (and eventually PLEX), and I didn't have the time to grind for ISK just get it blown up in PVP. So I avoided it like the plague.
But EVE is very boring without PVP. So after I got enough knowledge to at least not be bewildered by every defeat; to at least know WHY I was getting killed so much, I joined a low-sec corp that was inviting at the time. I've found them to be very laid-back people that have studied how to PVP in EVE because it's what they like doing.
But I stayed in high-sec for so long because I knew that to leave would probably be suicide. I knew that I didn't have any upper hands, so I decided not to bother. If you can win, but it's a long shot, it's called a risk. If you can't win because you don't have a clue it isn't a risk anymore. It's just stupid.
I'd guess that a lot of people stuck in high-sec are there because they don't know how to PVP, and they don't want to get their face pounded in while they learn. Others are just not interested in fighting other people for fun. I mean, there's usually no profit in it. What's the point? Some have done the PVP thing enough to have gotten bored with it, but still like chatting w/ people and hanging out in EVE. And still others are too stupid, ignorant, or time-starved to be able to do anything more creative and risky than warping to the thingy and F1ing the red crosses.
It doesn't really matter. There's stuff to do no matter where you go. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
449
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 03:18:00 -
[132] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:This was a long post about the way WoW keeps its subscribers addicted to the game by a means of constantly triggering the reward system of the brain and a comparison to the horrible reward system EvE uses but,
the forums happened and it was lost for ever.
There are so many differences between both community s it's just impossible to all explain them, but let's just start by one and the simple one: community
Yes Eve is the emerald of internet games for people who enjoy exclusively pvp in internet space ships. But it's such wasted emerald with such closed mind, rude and selfish community.
Any improvement or little thing that may well make the game better or just little different to offer options for people willing to use those options just turns in massive fake unsubs of dozens of alts but few mains. Useless interviews in fake internets pubbie press and so on.
The reward system for the time spent in eve is just ridiculous and not appealing for someone who wants to get in the game, spend a few hours playing and progress. In eve this just doesn't exist. There's only two roads: -You get your credit card and pay yourself a 30 or 50M toon so you start having fun fast and it doesn't matter if stuff misses, when you have a 50M sp toon there's not much stuff you miss to have fun in game and discover all the game possibilities
-Or you get your credit card for cheaper and you pay an account you almost don't play or can do stuff with, you need a stupid year of training (and correctly trained) to have a character that can start using stuff properly (fittings and ship options)
There's no relation to the time you spent playing/having fun and the amount SP your toon can claim/get. You can do boring stuff for 24h other than be ganked, scamed, can flip or even mining!!! or just log to set your skills que, your progression in this game is only related to the amount of isk you have in your wallet or the number of KM's in your killboard. Your actual toon is absolutely nothing, take some isk from your wallet and change it, take your credit card and buy a new one.
Edit: Actually this progression system calls for boting because it's hell boring and not appealing, all you need is isk to pay your sub and isk to buy your stuff. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 04:59:00 -
[133] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
Because game doesn't have any other casual gameplay. When you have like 1-2 free hrs a day or even less your choice is pretty obvious. I can also have a pimped out 10+ bill Vargur that kills rats only by the fact of warping close to them. So fearsome it is!
My question to you: what's your problem with me doing missions or any other stuff that doesn't involve people? I don't feed the trolls. |
Opertone
Signal 7
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 05:12:00 -
[134] - Quote
simple answer - retarted PvPers want to gank you. 10 on 1 fights are typical, this is why you don't go out. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1244
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 05:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
Opertone wrote:simple answer - retarted PvPers want to gank you. 10 on 1 fights are typical, this is why you don't go out.
PEOPLE ENGAGE IN PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER COMBAT IN THIS GAME? |
Hecatonis
Ascension Manufacturing
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 05:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
Andski wrote:Opertone wrote:simple answer - retarted PvPers want to gank you. 10 on 1 fights are typical, this is why you don't go out. PEOPLE ENGAGE IN PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER COMBAT IN THIS GAME?
I DON'T USE CAPS LOCK WHEN I MAKE POSTS.
REAL PEOPLE HOLD DOWN SHIFT |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
55
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 09:25:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: [...] Useless interviews in fake internets pubbie press and so on. [...]
Stopped reading, right here.
So fake internets non-pubbie press is somehow more legitimate, eh, TEST/Goon-alt?
Go back to your RMT/bot-farming, you sanctimonious little girl, your owners need you...
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1256
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 11:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:evenews24
ahahaha
btw Tanya Powers is not on my forum alt spreadsheet sorry |
Halcyon Ingenium
Warm Holes
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 12:13:00 -
[139] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
Because some people have lives, who still like the game, but don't have the time to invest in it that you do? You get that right? That not everyone that plays this game is exactly like you? That other people have different lives than you do and have different reasons for doing completely different things, right?
People say things like: "Oh, you make so much money. What do you need any more for?" Well, actually, *****, I never asked for your opinion. I'll let you know when I have enough money. -Gene Simmons |
Little Delicious
Imperium's Dark Legion
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 12:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
eve is a game? i thought it was just a chat room. |
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Valei Khurelem
Khurelem Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 12:30:00 -
[141] - Quote
This is a sandbox game, live with it, there are players different from you. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 13:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:This is a sandbox game, live with it, there are players different from you. Don't mind me, just pointing out someone else who didn't even understand the question. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 13:42:00 -
[143] - Quote
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
I use isk all the time. Buying blueprints or ore for building things. My wallet goes up and down and I'm usually happy with about 1bil in the wallet. Sometimes it jumps up to 2bil then a buy some stuff and it goes down to 400mil then alittle later it goes back up to 1bil again. Buying, selling and building things. I usually just mine or mission while waiting for things to be built or sell orders. I usually only mission or mine cause I don't have much else to do that day. Doing missions is a bit like mining as well, with all the minerals you get from the loot. I usually don't even bother mining much these days because of the loot from missions.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
Of course. What makes you think people who aren't as social as you and/or play the game solo don't spend their isk? I do wonder what people do with the isk they make from incursions though. I guess they just spend it on t2 ships and expensive mods. I don't do incursions. I think they might be interesting. I haven't seriously tried them though.
I don't really feel like joining up with others in a corp. Too easy to steal from others in a corp (so I've heard). I do talk to people in local. Maybe it's just a trust thing. Had bad experiences with corp mates in the past. Couldn't trust them at all. Better to just do things my way. Also I'm very much used to travelling in lowsec and nullsec now. It doesn't bother me as much as it used to.
I started playing elite and watched my brother play it alot. I got into frontier elite 2 a lot more after that. I think that's why I like EVE. It reminds me of frontier a bit.
Is this the sort of answer you wanted? I might not be the type of person you wanted to ask. |
Philip the Second
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 13:53:00 -
[144] - Quote
I didn't bother reading the entire thread but I can give the OP 10 answers to his question(just my personal reasons of course).
1. I have limited time to play EVE. 2-10. See answer 1.
With my answers in mind, let me ask you a question:
Have you tried staying in low-null sec after being kicked from a corp due to inactivity? (meaning, I have to go offline for weeks at a time due to job/school and I actually understand corp leadership not being able to keep me on) If not, I can tell you that it is not really viable as mundane things like jumping to another system has a very chance of getting you podded. I actually prefer the lawlessness of low-null sec, but the presence of bubbles and gatecampers on every other gate makes it kind of hard to get around so there really is absolutely no reason for me to stay anywhere but in High sec.
And since it is customary for people around here to reply to my post with: Learn to PvP(in leetspeak of course). I can say that I am not completely horrible at PvP and would gladly fight back given the chance, but the simple fact is that most gatecampers have a designated Ewar boat, and 4-1 under those circumstances makes things tricky.
This means that if I wish to accomplish Anything in this game, it will have to be done in high-sec, where I can actually earn some isk on my own and quite simply just do my own thing.
TL;DR: No time for corp + roflstomping gatecamps = highsec better for me |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
Philip the Second wrote:Have you tried staying in low-null sec after being kicked from a corp due to inactivity? I lived in 0.0 solo for 6 months or so, does that count?
Perfectly viable since most of it is empty most of the time.
However, not something I would recommend for someone who can't put a lot of time in. |
Burning Furry
Crouching Tiger Hidden Ibis
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:02:00 -
[146] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:
But then there's the group of people that don't do any of that but still actively play eve ever day and farm isk and do so filed with glee for it, with no goal that i can see besides getting more isk to do nothing with it, i keep assuming they MUST have a goal to keep playing or there is no reason to play.
What is it with your obsession with goals and aims?
Why does there have to be a goal?
I work 60 hours a week and have an active social and family life on top of that.
The odd hour i get to myself, i like to log on, immerse myself in space pixels and just chiiiiil.
Is it not enough that i like to do missions or mine? That the activity is enough to entertain me? That pwetty explosions and full cargoholds entertain me?
It sounds to me that YOU do not particularly enjoy eve, if you have to struggle so hard to find meaning and enjoyment within it. I feel sorry for you that the core game, absent human interaction, does not entertain you. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
258
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:05:00 -
[147] - Quote
You mine alone? With one account or multiple? |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
159
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
Because I can. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
mogwai
Gremlin Industries Nostradamus Effect
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Low / Null sec - been there, done it, back in the day.
Now, i'm a 40 yr old in rl with a job and young family. Eve is now my part-time hobby . Yes, i pretty much stick to hi-sec now and grind isk for plex while money is tight over christmas. But the amount of things to do ingame without having to tie oneself to a megacorp keeps me going quite nicely for the brief respite i get from rl on a daily basis.
One quote i will always live by : (bold / underlined the mainly relevant) Eve faq's
GÇóIn EVE you are free to choose your own destiny. You start out as a character from one of four races that inhabit the EVE universe but apart from slightly different starting skills you are free to take your character in any direction you want. You are not restricted by predefined character classes or professions. You can trade to make a living, conduct mining operations, market your fighting skills as a mercenary, camp the spacelanes for profit as a pirate, conduct espionage and infiltration, focus on research and manufacturing, or perform increasingly profitable missions for NPC (non player controlled, run by the EVE system) agents. What you choose to do day by day is up to you. You can play alone, form a corporation (equivalent of clan or guild) with a close group of friends or seek entrance to any of the large player run corporations and alliances already established. The EVE Unviverse and its 5000 unique solar systems are yours to explore and conquer.
|
Sgt Lurch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:26:00 -
[150] - Quote
Eve is a good game in some ways for people who don't have much time to play MMOs as your skills will increase offline and there is plenty to contemplate about what to do when next online rather than just what colour enchant should I put on my 2h mallet.
But for those people, and me in my experience, it can be difficult to venture out of high sec because you either diaf horribly or find it's mostly empty and wish you'd bought a better ship to rat in belts and a scanner probe. Also, just in my experience, finding a good corp with decent folk. I've met alot of people who take the game way too seriously.
ISK gets spent on expensive spaceships which you then loose cause your an idiot (and / or too drunk) who hasn't spent enough time in space to know how to fly it. Fortunately many of them don't make it to KBs |
|
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus
37
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:46:00 -
[151] - Quote
How many times are people gonna make threads raging about others not playing this game their way?
Stop it. It's it's asinine. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
385
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:52:00 -
[152] - Quote
I made a great wall of text once on this subject. Can't remember where I posted it now, but I'll try to cover the general ideas:
I used to be a carebear. I lived mostly in highsec with regular excursions into w-space and lowsec, and my corpmates all lived in high. We were all real-life friends, started the game together, and as a group we enjoy co-op games just as much as we enjoy team PVP games (and dear God we're all addicted to Minecraft right now). So we were happy to run missions together as we learned the game. There are a lot of people that that's all they're looking for: an hour or three of shooting mindless rats with their friends, building their spaceships together, and all of it relatively risk-free because they don't want to deal with that part of the game.
There are some people who really don't know what all Eve has. The tutorials are all mission-based, so once you've done all those you've been trained to run missions like it's the most important thing to do in Eve. Some of those guys stay around for quite a while, "levelling up" by getting bigger and better ships and modules. They'll play for 18-24 months probably before they burn out, dock their faction-fitted marauder and never come back.
Others really do enjoy the repetitive gameplay. Look at these guys who have played Super Mario Brothers thousands of times until they achieve perfection. That same pattern of behavior results in Eve players doing the same thing over and over and over again until they get it just right...and then continuing to do it, because they find that rewarding in some way.
In other words, sometimes it's a social thing even when you don't realize it, and sometimes they're just built different than you and really do like that particular gameplay.
And sometimes they're bots. |
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 15:21:00 -
[153] - Quote
I'll give a guess since I have played in Null/low/high sec.
1. time 2. sifi experience 3. large game 4. there is risk, even in high, there is risk
I'll bet that most high seccers are just getting by. The 99% They are the background players playing the supporting roles to your null and low sec dramas. "the nerds that open and closes the curtains of your bit part in this EVE Sifi act."
|
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
93
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:00:00 -
[154] - Quote
Joshua Aivoras wrote:How many times are people gonna make threads raging about others not playing this game their way?
Stop it. It's it's asinine.
did you read the OP or just read the title and post?
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
278
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:18:00 -
[155] - Quote
Philip the Second wrote:I didn't bother reading the entire thread but I can give the OP 10 answers to his question(just my personal reasons of course).
1. I have limited time to play EVE. 2-10. See answer 1.
With my answers in mind, let me ask you a question:
Have you tried staying in low-null sec after being kicked from a corp due to inactivity? (meaning, I have to go offline for weeks at a time due to job/school and I actually understand corp leadership not being able to keep me on) If not, I can tell you that it is not really viable as mundane things like jumping to another system has a very chance of getting you podded. I actually prefer the lawlessness of low-null sec, but the presence of bubbles and gatecampers on every other gate makes it kind of hard to get around so there really is absolutely no reason for me to stay anywhere but in High sec.
And since it is customary for people around here to reply to my post with: Learn to PvP(in leetspeak of course). I can say that I am not completely horrible at PvP and would gladly fight back given the chance, but the simple fact is that most gatecampers have a designated Ewar boat, and 4-1 under those circumstances makes things tricky.
This means that if I wish to accomplish Anything in this game, it will have to be done in high-sec, where I can actually earn some isk on my own and quite simply just do my own thing.
TL;DR: No time for corp + roflstomping gatecamps = highsec better for me
Yet another demonstration of how the gank pipelines and bubble camps have formed a "Great Wall of Carebear" and there are bears on BOTH sides of that wall. I can use a wormhole to get past this wall and have spent weeks in claimed 0.0 systems without seeing anybody else in local.
If only CCP would remove dependency on gates. Give ships the ability to dial in a system to system hyperwarp, "Star Trek/Star Wars style", and the game will become rich with opportunity and PVP. Everybody in 0.0 will get the targets they cry for, and everybody else gets to reach out.
What, nulldwellers won't want to form patrols (read: small gangs) and police their systems? Do they want to hang out in these camps?
Is CCP simply catering to nuillbears while the nullbears, lording it up deep and safe in 0.0, are pointing their fingers at highsec and blaming everything on highsec carebears?
Are there too many nullsec CSMs telling CCP that everything is fine the way it is, while thinking of their moongoo ISK faucets and sanctums and laughing inside? Is it all about crying for more targets, cursing the carebears in highsec, while in the usual form of "wanting your cake and eating it too", they want more people in 0.0 space, but only on their own terms: as renters, cannon fodder, and targets?
CCP, set (the majority of) your players free. I have proven that safe passage across The Wall using wormholes makes it possible for a so-called "casual player" to survive in 0.0. The Wall is preventing the game from reaching its potential. Remove that wall, and it's a PVP/chaos/exp(loi/lora)tion bonanza.
Or just keep letting the CSM/0.0 bosses lie to your ear and keep things the way it is as most players will eventually get bored and move on.
|
Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:27:00 -
[156] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question For people that say they will never go to Null, lowsec, or WH space and that never engage other plays i any form of social interaction.
This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people that actively engage in interactions with other people this is a question for the people that.
A. gather large sums of isks and in turn do nothing with it
a1 - Incursion runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.( the type that don't speak and might as well be automated)
a2 - Mission runners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
a3 - Miners that do not take active rolls in any corp, pvp, play market games or Build items.
These are the people i want answers to my question from.
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
This question was spawned from reading a thread about removing incursions from high sec* and seeing the large amounts of people saying they will never go to lowsec or null for any reason, but don't do any thing in high sec besides farm isks.
* ( i still view the best change for high sec incursions as a reduction in raw isk pay outs and a increase in the LP pay out)
Eve is a sand box, live with it. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 16:48:00 -
[157] - Quote
1. I couldn't f*cking care
2. Don't f*cking care to try anymore
3. Gate camps. Number 1 and 2, don't f*cking care to try and get passed them. Have wasted too much time (several hours at a time) trying to read maps, Dotlan counts, Pod Kills, pick a destination, get through a gate, and BANG! Hours of time wasted in minutes. Its always 10 minutes or 3 jumps, no matter how many f*cking times I try to avoid people to get passed them it never works. Stupid mechanic , gate camps = zone lines = sitting your ass in 1 spot for hours on end = Hey! Its so 1999 like its EQ all over again. Anyone get any Yaks or FBSS to drop in EVE?
4. Pod killing, SP loss, Loss of time skilling. Number 1. The pod doesn't bother me, its the fact that +attribute implants there. Its the fact, that I pay a monthly subscription based on real world cash to accumulate SP at a real world rate (by the hour) when that rate is measured in months and years to get to the SP cap (which no one will ever get to), and any Joe Chump with an erection can THRUST!! it through my eyesocket to make them feel better. Recap: I don't pay real world money to have real world time set back, because the skilling takes so long already. I don't mind loosing a +3% cap or +3% agi implant because thats like equipment, but a +5 implant drasticly cuts down on training time.
5. Trust. This is the corp issue. Number 1. I learned this quickly, its has no f*cking value. Because EVE lets you do what ever you want to do, there is no f*cking way I am going to let someone failing at LARPing a theif get access to my assets and let them take it. Having spent time accumulating it (time = real world cash for that subscrition) I would rather have it blown away into pixel nothingness then let someone get ahold of the more expensive items and sell it off, to buy PLEX (free game time for them) or buy PVP ships to go lose on a roam. I don't fit expensive ships (Top 10 rules of EVE), so the best you might get is 1 or 2 semi-expensive mods but the rest...will go poof with an additional 1/3 the hull cost to what I loose in gank ships used against it (thank you insurance fix, but an additional 50m charge on top for GCC being initiated would be a great way of making EVE more harsh to the gankers and gankee )
Aside from it, there is nothing lowsec or nullsec offers me I can't get in highsec with better options: Better access to markets, no gate camps, source of income from mission bounties and discount LP coupons for faction ammo, train faster with less stress of losing implants (now flying a thick ass buffer shuttle, thanks CCP for a stupid "improvement" for killmails), no need to goosestep to someone else's orders, an NPC chat channel which is way more interesting then spamming Dscan. Mainly, I like to casually play games and there is way too much stress over to staying alive for a video game, which FSS is a f*cking video game and not something to be serious over. |
Galehund
The Right Corp
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:15:00 -
[158] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
The question is flawed, as it generalises peoples objective in game down a certain path.
Once you realize and accept that not everyone want to or like doing X, and they there for have completely different view point and goals compared to you, then you question becomes mute. There for there is no really answer to you question other then accept the sandbox... actually there is an aswer.
Accept the sandbox, help make it larger by accepting that eve is more the pewpew. Sadly WiS was put in the freezer(for now) but EvE could have moved from being just a space shooter to something grander. Hopefully CCP will be more prepared in there next attempts.
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:19:00 -
[159] - Quote
Galehund wrote:The question is flawed, as it generalises peoples objective in game down a certain path. No it doesn't. |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:1. I couldn't f*cking care
2. Don't f*cking care to try anymore
Alright.
Quote: 3. Gate camps. Number 1 and 2, don't f*cking care to try and get passed them. Have wasted too much time (several hours at a time) trying to read maps, Dotlan counts, Pod Kills, pick a destination, get through a gate, and BANG! Hours of time wasted in minutes. Its always 10 minutes or 3 jumps, no matter how many f*cking times I try to avoid people to get passed them it never works. Stupid mechanic , gate camps = zone lines = sitting your ass in 1 spot for hours on end = Hey! Its so 1999 like its EQ all over again. Anyone get any Yaks or FBSS to drop in EVE?
Yeah, I suppose this would be a bummer for those who refuse to fleet up with a scout or use intel channels.
Quote: 4. Pod killing, SP loss, Loss of time skilling. Number 1. The pod doesn't bother me, its the fact that +attribute implants there. Its the fact, that I pay a monthly subscription based on real world cash to accumulate SP at a real world rate (by the hour) when that rate is measured in months and years to get to the SP cap (which no one will ever get to), and any Joe Chump with an erection can THRUST!! it through my eyesocket to make them feel better. Recap: I don't pay real world money to have real world time set back, because the skilling takes so long already. I don't mind loosing a +3% cap or +3% agi implant because thats like equipment, but a +5 implant drasticly cuts down on training time.
Yeah, I've never lost any SP as I'm smart enough to update my clone most of the time--and when I'm not I've been lucky. I suppose that someone who has might find it upsetting. Those I know who have didn't hide in hisec because of it though.
+5 implants don't really save you all that much time. It's on the order of a couple days per year over +4 or +3, which are MUCH less expensive. Getting that upset over attribute bonus implants though I'm sure you can imagine how ball-less you are compared to those wearing PvP implant sets.
Quote:5. Trust. This is the corp issue. Number 1. I learned this quickly, its has no f*cking value. Because EVE lets you do what ever you want to do, there is no f*cking way I am going to let someone failing at LARPing a theif get access to my assets and let them take it. Having spent time accumulating it (time = real world cash for that subscrition) I would rather have it blown away into pixel nothingness then let someone get ahold of the more expensive items and sell it off, to buy PLEX (free game time for them) or buy PVP ships to go lose on a roam. I don't fit expensive ships (Top 10 rules of EVE), so the best you might get is 1 or 2 semi-expensive mods but the rest...will go poof with an additional 1/3 the hull cost to what I loose in gank ships used against it (thank you insurance fix, but an additional 50m charge on top for GCC being initiated would be a great way of making EVE more harsh to the gankers and gankee )
Uh, you've got it all backwards. Trust in EvE is the biggest asset you can possibly have. All the ISK in the game can't make up for it. It's a rare commodity that is hard to come by....unless you're a hisec carebear that just hands it out like babies for the wolves to eat.
In games where "friends" can't hurt you...that's where trust has no f*cking value.
Quote: Aside from it, there is nothing lowsec or nullsec offers me I can't get in highsec with better options: Better access to markets, no gate camps, source of income from mission bounties and discount LP coupons for faction ammo, train faster with less stress of losing implants (now flying a thick ass buffer shuttle, thanks CCP for a stupid "improvement" for killmails), no need to goosestep to someone else's orders, an NPC chat channel which is way more interesting then spamming Dscan. Mainly, I like to casually play games and there is way too much stress over to staying alive for a video game, which FSS is a f*cking video game and not something to be serious over.
This I can understand. You just don't like it. Your rants over implants, etc... though make me sort of feel sorry for you. Having so much fear of loss that you get mad at the game...must really suck to be like that. Yeah, there are setbacks in this game...some worse than others. This isn't WoW or Rift. You don't just get back up and run back into that 20 man gang to die yet again without consequences. EvE is the kind of game that can make a grown man cry, and I've seen it many times. It's still just a game though. Play it the way you want, but jeesh....don't be scared of it! |
|
Galehund
The Right Corp
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:34:00 -
[161] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Galehund wrote:The question is flawed, as it generalises peoples objective in game down a certain path. No it doesn't.
Could you expand on those thoughts?
More Questins
"The OP" wrote: Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question)
How can you decide and know what another persons roll and ideas are about a game, be it singleplay or mmo (a mmo is just a game with vastly improved AI aka humans)?
"The OP" wrote: You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
How do you know what another person is doing in game if you have no contact with said person, how do you know they have no projects, how do you know they don't buy stuff?
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:39:00 -
[162] - Quote
Galehund wrote:Could you expand on those thoughts? Already did earlier in the thread.
Galehund wrote:"The OP" wrote:Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) How can you decide and know what another persons roll and ideas are about a game, be it singleplay or mmo (a mmo is just a game with vastly improved AI aka humans)? Since he specifically specified peopel who do not play a larger role, it is not presumption to ask why they do not play a larger roll.
Galehund wrote:"The OP" wrote:You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets. How do you know what another person is doing in game if you have no contact with said person, how do you know they have no projects, how do you know they don't buy stuff? Because he specifically specified people with no projects and who do not buy stuff. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
72
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:49:00 -
[163] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.
Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. The only time they start shooting each other is when they want a little more space, or if someone pisses someone off. There was a good thread about people needing to stop with these non-aggression pacts. They complain day-in and day-out that they have "no one to shoot", and completely ignore the fact that they [b]have[/i] ships to blow up and people to shoot. They just need to stop being a bunch of dumbasses.
So, if they want to try to force me into their playground, then I'll stay away. They can watch me, with all my sexy, expensive ships. They can dec me, I'll evade. They can gank me, I'll escape. They expect us all to be carebears lacking knowledge. If anything, the fact that they whine so hard is proof that they are the carebears lacking knowledge.
Also, all my clones are like..3 bil alone. F*ck your bubble camping ret@rd friends.
Easily the best post in this thread.
Nullbears are obnoxious and unpleasant children. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
72
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:This is a sandbox game, live with it, there are players different from you. Don't mind me, just pointing out someone else who didn't even understand the question.
Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
139
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:51:00 -
[165] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:If only CCP would remove dependency on gates. Give ships the ability to dial in a system to system hyperwarp, "Star Trek/Star Wars style", and the game will become rich with opportunity and PVP. Everybody in 0.0 will get the targets they cry for, and everybody else gets to reach out. We already have those, they're called 'cynos'. And ever since, hisec duders have been flooding in with their caps and black ops gettin ready to make big mone- oh wait no. "hyperwarp' as you called it was possibly the biggest factor in killing opportunities for nullsec industry. Why buy mins and mods that was produced with heavier costs in your home territory when you can jump it in from Jita in 20 minutes? Why take in thousands of carebears into your alliance when a few guys with jump freighters do the same job but with less overhead and less incentive to invaders?
So what's your solution again? Give all ships 'hyperwarp'' ability?
Quote:Is CCP simply catering to nuillbears while the nullbears, lording it up deep and safe in 0.0, are pointing their fingers at highsec and blaming everything on highsec carebears?
Are there too many nullsec CSMs telling CCP that everything is fine the way it is, while thinking of their moongoo ISK faucets and sanctums and laughing inside? Is it all about crying for more targets, cursing the carebears in highsec, while in the usual form of "wanting your cake and eating it too", they want more people in 0.0 space, but only on their own terms: as renters, cannon fodder, and targets? Carebears, as a general rule, go where the money is. If, after cost of ships lost and/or time spent on other commitments, if they got more mining veldspar in low/null then they did in highsec, they'd do it. Same with low/null manufacturing. Same with low/null PI until recently. For example, when Providence was an open source of 0.0-grade belt rats and pre-nerfed anoms for anyone, tens of thousands of ambitious carebears felt the reward was worth the risk. Now carebears who want more isk do incursions simply because they pay out better then anything Providence currently has to offer.
CCP needs to adjust the the rewards for hi/low/null in order to get players to take risks. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:52:00 -
[166] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people.
It's like they are all solipsists or something. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 17:53:00 -
[167] - Quote
To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game is like saying only the sand makes the desert. There's so much more to it. I solo mined for a good year and a half when I started. I got into industry and marketing while doing so. That's how a lot of that stuff gets there m8.
I can only assume a lack of experience with high sec when I see how "high sec is safe" and "there's no gate camps in high sec". I have flown through or avoided more gate camps this week in high sec than I have ever encountered in low sec. Just look at the daily ship kills in The Forge alone. It curb stomps all the null sec activity put together. A lot of days Jita has more kills than the null sec top 5 kills systems. This whole "kill the miners thing doesn't actually change the numbers much since that's always been there. There's just a bit more activity right now. Null could be better, but the pilots as a whole only want to do one thing in null, so its no fun for anyone who doesn't want to play the same way they do.
I'm currenty returning to high sec from low sec and null because its so boring in null. I had more fun in hisec and frankly the move by itself has been more fun than I've had in-game for months. I'll probably be going back to being a solo industrialst again for that matter. |
Forum Fighter
Internet Tough Guys
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped.
Quit crying about null being empty while you're camping the freakin pipes! Rescuing fanbois from haters since 2003-Ĵ |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:00:00 -
[169] - Quote
Pavel Bidermann wrote:To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game OP wrote:This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
139
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:03:00 -
[170] - Quote
Forum Fighter wrote:I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped. Quit crying about null being empty while you're camping the freakin pipes! *stop defending space* *get rich on docking fees and buy orders for trit*
hell yea |
|
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:18:00 -
[171] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people. It's like they are all solipsists or something.
Some carebears in this thread are making assumptions about the OP who asked the question, you're making assumptions about every single carebear in Eve.
|
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
Forum Fighter wrote:I would go to nullsec if the pipes weren't camped.
^^^^ Wants her pipes cleaned. |
Galehund
The Right Corp
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:33:00 -
[173] - Quote
"The OP" wrote: You gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
He is assuming they are gathering large sums and have no goals, how does he know that?
Another answer to his question is another question: Why do people play games?
|
Baden Luskan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:36:00 -
[174] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Take no part in the game?
You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.
Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet. Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played.
I totally agree, but staying in high sec and never finding out what 0.0 life is like staying in the starting zones your whole life in WoW. At least in my opinion. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:36:00 -
[175] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Pavel Bidermann wrote:To say the high sec indi-player deosn't contribute to the game OP wrote:This is not for the high sec indy or mining type of people
I have filled the rolls of OPs A-a3 for about 2 years of game time. Sorry you don't feel I'm qualified to answer. I have simply been in the position stated by the OP plus I have been in the rolls of the indy miner/industrialis, null sec pvp, low sec pvp, low/ null sec miner and exploration, scouting, logi, fleet, gang, corp member, corp founder, etc. Sorry if that overlapped and was a problem for you. I built my first corp having raised the capital to do so by solo mining in an instrial ship 6 days a week for a minimum of 3 hours a day. That was not easy. 1 1/2 hours per load of ore. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:44:00 -
[176] - Quote
Baden Luskan wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Take no part in the game?
You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.
Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet. Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played. I totally agree, but staying in high sec and never finding out what 0.0 life is like staying in the starting zones your whole life in WoW. At least in my opinion. Its more like playing wow on a pve server without ever entering a battleground, arena or enemy faction city. Which is not super unusual. Highsec has a lot of stuff in it. Seeing it as just a starter zone is missing the point entirely.
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:46:00 -
[177] - Quote
I think it has been mentioned before, but I will paraphrase.
For most living in empire, and for quite a few in null, the game is about risk / reward. Everyone has to make ISK one way or another to fund whatever they are doing in game.
And most players, rather the smart players, will gravitate towards the highest reward to risk ratio for that ISK generation. Naturally, PvP does not factor into that equation, since it is based on a whole different reward system.
But as stated above, even PvP'ers need some kind of ISK stream to fund their activites.
It boils down to the fact that the nullbears (and yes, I have lived in 0.0 and wh's for extended periods of time previously) are unhappy that the reward to risk ratio is weighted currently towards high sec activities, and they will continue to whine until CCP alters that reward to risk ratio until it is more beneficial economically to live in 0.0 compared to high sec.
CCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER)
So null bears, suck it up, create an high sec mission runner/ industrial alt/ Incursion runner/ trader and move on with your Eve life.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
280
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:46:00 -
[178] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:You know why? Because it's my form of griefing.
Think about it. Null sec is pushing hard at the CSM to have everyone move to null sec. Why? Because they don't understand politics. The only time they start shooting each other is when they want a little more space, or if someone pisses someone off. There was a good thread about people needing to stop with these non-aggression pacts. They complain day-in and day-out that they have "no one to shoot", and completely ignore the fact that they [b]have[/i] ships to blow up and people to shoot. They just need to stop being a bunch of dumbasses.
So, if they want to try to force me into their playground, then I'll stay away. They can watch me, with all my sexy, expensive ships. They can dec me, I'll evade. They can gank me, I'll escape. They expect us all to be carebears lacking knowledge. If anything, the fact that they whine so hard is proof that they are the carebears lacking knowledge.
Also, all my clones are like..3 bil alone. F*ck your bubble camping ret@rd friends. Easily the best post in this thread. Nullbears are obnoxious and unpleasant children.
Most of those "how to avoid bubble camps" tips are good, but somewhat misleading. Every time some makes such a post, I would take an alt into 0.0 using any tips that were new to me, and yes, you can go to 0.0 and avoid MOST of the bubble camps, but that's for dumb bubblers and a good bubbler is still going to get you eventually.
"Eventually" equals "going to null is feeding your ISK to campers" . And because it means just that, people choose not to go.
Using wormholes - and hey it's not always easy I once had some big WH presences try to hunt me down (pays to have grav caps and find out when their best prober is not online through the information you can glean from their own killboards) - but I have a ship from Spring of 2009 that I have been using to get in and out of 0.0 and only once was it caught in a WH bubble that was not being watched (but they didn't expect a BC to do over 1000 ms already aligned on it's SS - why do the so-called "leet" PVPers think that everybody else is automatically stupid?).
I like the last statement, and could agree that most players don't want to feed ships to the bubbletards.
The usual methods for avoiding bubble camps make for a game that is as boring as mining, but mining has a predictable positive outcome. A very good bubbler WILL get you, and that predictable negative outcome means that people are not going to feed ships to them no matter how loud they cry about "carebears". |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
280
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:50:00 -
[179] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I think it has been mentioned before, but I will paraphrase.
For most living in empire, and for quite a few in null, the game is about risk / reward. Everyone has to make ISK one way or another to fund whatever they are doing in game.
And most players, rather the smart players, will gravitate towards the highest reward to risk ratio for that ISK generation. Naturally, PvP does not factor into that equation, since it is based on a whole different reward system.
But as stated above, even PvP'ers need some kind of ISK stream to fund their activites.
It boils down to the fact that the nullbears (and yes, I have lived in 0.0 and wh's for extended periods of time previously) are unhappy that the reward to risk ratio is weighted currently towards high sec activities, and they will continue to whine until CCP alters that reward to risk ratio until it is more beneficial economically to live in 0.0 compared to high sec.
CCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER)
So null bears, suck it up, create an high sec mission runner/ industrial alt/ Incursion runner/ trader and move on with your Eve life.
Or they could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason.
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
140
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:54:00 -
[180] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:ICCP would have to change a ton for that to happen. (ie. NEVER) Hehe |
|
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:54:00 -
[181] - Quote
Couldn't agree more Hurzog. The main broken mechanic in null sec is alliance leadership. Even though other things need work and supers should be removed, the leadership is simply short sighted and greedy. I have to dump some of the blame on null pilots as a whole since they don't want to shake up their leadership so that they do have something to do. Perhaps those alliances have gotten so large that they can't change leadership. In that case, they have been effectively highjacked. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
141
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 18:56:00 -
[182] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Or they could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason.
Do you leave the doors to your house unlocked in the hope that strangers will walk in and maybe leave loose change between your couch cushions?
|
NatteFrost85
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:05:00 -
[183] - Quote
well, im in the a2 category.
main reason to why im no longer part of player corps is that ther is abseloutly no1 that suits me and how i play eve.(look at my corp history if you dont belive i havent tryed)
allso, for me hisec is the moust secure place to be in, i can go where i want whenever i want, whit 0 risk where i currently am, that my ship will be not be taken by suicide gankers.
this is something that dont exist in low or 0.0. some of you may argue 0.0 is safer then hisec but that is only aslong as the alliance living there manages to protect it. as sutch 0.0 aint safer then highsec and i have no reason to go there. same whit lowsec exept ther, no1 is i controll of anything.
so what do i do whit my isk i make from mission running? save upp for faction and pirate ships that im only using for missions and since i cant get bigger ships then a BS in hisec its not so costly(after all i live by the rule; dont fly what you cant afford to loose).
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
280
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:05:00 -
[184] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Or they could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason.
Do you leave the doors to your house unlocked in the hope that strangers will walk in and maybe leave loose change between your couch cushions?
0.0 space and my house are two entirely different things.
Let's see, whenever someone claims the griefing is a metagame experience, and that the grief is real, we get a flood of "don't compare EvE to real life!!!1!!" but when justifying the kill-everything-that-moves mentality of NAPed up alliances, all of a sudden the RL need for security is applicable to this game.
How many gate-camping stay-at-home sons have locked doors RFN? Gun handy? Windows? Gated community?
There's no connection here.
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
261
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:21:00 -
[185] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:So null bears, suck it up, create an high sec mission runner/ industrial alt/ Incursion runner/ trader and move on with your Eve life. We have. We've botted up L4s to no end, and started doing incursions. Yay for inflasion. vOv
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason. If it's not blue, it shouldn't be there. If it should be there, it would have blue standings. It's that simple. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:36:00 -
[186] - Quote
Why shouldn't it be there Zim? Why does it have to be blue? Are you worried that it wouldn't be safe? High sec flies with reds all the time. THAT requires thought, planning and risk management. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
141
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:39:00 -
[187] - Quote
yeah stupid goonies why defend your space? too SCARED to do the thought, planning and risk management of LOGGING ON NPC CORP ALT?!?! CHICKEN? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
262
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:42:00 -
[188] - Quote
We need to protect our space so we can pull off mittens' nefarious PI plan. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
262
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:42:00 -
[189] - Quote
Whoops, did I say that out loud? |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:42:00 -
[190] - Quote
Having flown in Provi I have seen it work there too. It seems the weakest players need the easiest rule set. |
|
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
72
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:42:00 -
[191] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people. It's like they are all solipsists or something.
Call it what you want. The people responding, "stop telling others how to play" are just calling the OP out on a pathetic guise. They know why he's asking these questions. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:43:00 -
[192] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Whoops, did I say that out loud?
Do you really think anything like that would be a secret? |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
72
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:46:00 -
[193] - Quote
Baden Luskan wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Take no part in the game?
You mean take no part in the game that you think they should. They're taking part in incursions, as a part of your definition... that's certainly a part of the game they're taking part in.
Your bias... it's leaking on the carpet. Agree with this. This game is many things. People need to stop assuming that their game is the only game to be played. I totally agree, but staying in high sec and never finding out what 0.0 life is like staying in the starting zones your whole life in WoW. At least in my opinion.
In my experience most "carebears" have been to null, and they quickly realized that playing with tear farming losers isn't an enjoyable game experience. |
Aldan Romar
Imperial Academy
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:55:00 -
[194] - Quote
To answer the implied question: I'm playing Elite with better graphics and that eerie feeling of risk of having half of Goonswarm hot dropping me any second.
As for the direct question:Mirima Thurander wrote:Is there something you do with this isk? I'm mainly playing for the nice sights not for ISK. ISK is a means to an end to me. I don't optimize my ISK/hour ratio. I buy ISK with real money, if I don't have enough.
So, if I have ISK, I: - spend it on better ships and modules, - spend it on more ships and modules, - spend it on PLEX to tranfer to AUR to spend on the NEX, - stockpile it, - give some to friends. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 20:08:00 -
[195] - Quote
Aldan Romar wrote:To answer the implied question: I'm playing Elite with better graphics and that eerie feeling of risk of having half of Goonswarm hot dropping me any second. As for the direct question: Mirima Thurander wrote:Is there something you do with this isk? I'm mainly playing for the nice sights not for ISK. ISK is a means to an end to me. I don't optimize my ISK/hour ratio. I buy ISK with real money, if I don't have enough. So, if I have ISK, I: - spend it on better ships and modules, - spend it on more ships and modules, - spend it on PLEX to tranfer to AUR to spend on the NEX, - stockpile it, - give some to friends.
Very true. I honestly don't know how many new players I have given isk and material (ships, modules, etc.) to. Some of them I never even met. Friends of friends kind of thing. I had a 1 man, 2 account corp for quite a while and I liked it that way. I found it to be a hassle to add members. I just liked doing my own thing. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:10:00 -
[196] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people. It's like they are all solipsists or something. Call it what you want. The people responding, "stop telling others how to play" are just calling the OP out on a pathetic guise. They know why he's asking these questions. No, they don't. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:10:00 -
[197] - Quote
DOUBLE POST COURTESY OF ****** FORUM |
El Boracho
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:47:00 -
[198] - Quote
Morganta wrote:exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning
True but in a sandbox game there is no single definition of winning.
NullSecDude: I am master of this block of space, fear me.
HiSecGuy: Who cares
NullSecDude: You are ignoring 90% of the game, wtf
HiSecGuy: yep
|
Baaldor
Sin Factory Anarchy Unlimited
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:58:00 -
[199] - Quote
El Boracho wrote:
True but in a sandbox game there is no single definition of winning.
NullSecDude: I am master of this block of space, fear me.
HiSecGuy: Who cares
NullSecDude: You are ignoring 90% of the game, wtf
HiSecGuy: yep
Actually is it is more like....
NullSecDude: Looking for decent pilots, Null Sec fun and games
HiSecGuy: Sure, but this is what I demand, I am not going to x up for fleet, I expect some type of protective service when I rat or mine, if I lose a ship I expect to be reimbursed and if some one can move my **** from High Sec that would be great.
NullSecDude: Dude, WTF! entitled much?
HiSecGuy: yep |
Slade Trillgon
T.R.I.A.D
74
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:21:00 -
[200] - Quote
Torin Corax wrote: It's not about need, it's simply curiosity coupled with a desire to see the game from the Pov of someone who plays it in a different way with different motivations. Since when has open discourse and attempting to be more understanding of others been a bad thing?
The OP reeks of bias as he implies that just because players in the Incursion thread said they would never leave high sec means that they do not interact with anyone. He also assumes that he knows exactly what all players do, at all times, and knows that they never interact, with anyone, ever.
If he had worded his question differently he may have had a different thread.
And the following quote is one of the better answers to the question the OP was trying to get to.
Morganta wrote:exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning
The way I see it though is most people think that they know what the other player is doing just becaus they could never get them to interact with them. This even sounds a little egocentric quite honestly.
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Myrdraeus Keaunt wrote:Ugh. That allegory is one of the worst justifications of woo ever. It forms the basis of every tyranny known to man. "Force them out, they'll thank us later." It's too bad that of all the great Greek philosophers, Plato is the most remembered. It's incredibly ironic you could be so wrong on your interpretation, mostly because this applies to people like you.
And I bet you would really love the opportunity to drag him out and show him the way, would you not?
How ironic
Slade
|
|
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
93
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:27:00 -
[201] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Or they could simple stop killing everything that moves for no reason.
Do you leave the doors to your house unlocked in the hope that strangers will walk in and maybe leave loose change between your couch cushions?
no but i do leave my door open so i can shoot them when they try to come inside and steal from me
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:29:00 -
[202] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:
Actually is it is more like.... NullSecDude: Looking for decent pilots, Null Sec fun and games HiSecGuy: Sure, but this is what I demand, I am not going to x up for fleet, I expect some type of protective service when I rat or mine, if I lose a ship I expect to be reimbursed and if some one can move my **** from High Sec that would be great. NullSecDude: Dude, WTF! entitled much? HiSecGuy: yep
Ahh, so this is a recruitment crisis thing? That makes more sense.
|
Pryvate Pile
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:33:00 -
[203] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Baaldor wrote:
Actually is it is more like.... NullSecDude: Looking for decent pilots, Null Sec fun and games HiSecGuy: Sure, but this is what I demand, I am not going to x up for fleet, I expect some type of protective service when I rat or mine, if I lose a ship I expect to be reimbursed and if some one can move my **** from High Sec that would be great. NullSecDude: Dude, WTF! entitled much? HiSecGuy: yep
Ahh, so this is a recruitment crisis thing? That makes more sense.
Pretty good recruiter if he's trawling for hisec miners. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
235
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:33:00 -
[204] - Quote
I have been saying this for a very long time. EvE is not about PvP like most seem to think. It is about whatever you want it to be about. Personally I enjoy the PvP end myself. But I respect that others don't.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
56
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 05:45:00 -
[205] - Quote
El Boracho wrote:Morganta wrote:exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning True but in a sandbox game there is no single definition of winning. NullSecDude: I am master of this block of space, fear me. HiSecGuy: Who cares NullSecDude: You are ignoring 90% of the game, wtf HiSecGuy: No, I'm just ignoring you. Deal with it.
There. That's more like it.
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 06:40:00 -
[206] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:...Naturally, PvP does not factor into that equation, since it is based on a whole different reward system.
But as stated above, even PvP'ers need some kind of ISK stream to fund their activites... So, why not make PvP itself pay out ISK? Give everyone, winner or loser, a "combat activity" fee; if you get a kill, you get an even bigger reward. Also something for assists (logis), but also some way for the FC to reward scouts, those providing fleet bonuses, etc.
Less time farming is more time fighting, right? My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
73
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 08:08:00 -
[207] - Quote
You want to remove the only casual group thing in this game? pls go pod yourself. |
Katowen
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 08:53:00 -
[208] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I don't qualify to answer because I'm an industrialist, but let me hazard a guess on this one. So why do some folks stick to highsec and play solo?
Probably because they play irregularly and don't want to deal with ANY drama about it in their relaxing game playing time. Imagine dealing with work hassles all day, get home and deal with your kids/pets/spouses...and when that magic moment finally comes when you have a spare hour to yourself, you have to deal with the gamers who have more freedom than you do tell you that you suck because you don't play more and help out the corp.
That's why.
That's my reason. :P
Besides, when I want socialism from the others online, I just start a convo in the chat channels and who knows where that can lead for my schedule. Katowen |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 14:40:00 -
[209] - Quote
ASadOldGit wrote:So, why not make PvP itself pay out ISK? Give everyone, winner or loser, a "combat activity" fee; if you get a kill, you get an even bigger reward. Also something for assists (logis), but also some way for the FC to reward scouts, those providing fleet bonuses, etc.
Less time farming is more time fighting, right?[/quote]EVE is not a theme park, so lets not break the economy trying to turn it into one. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 18:32:00 -
[210] - Quote
Andski wrote:Opertone wrote:simple answer - retarted PvPers want to gank you. 10 on 1 fights are typical, this is why you don't go out. PEOPLE ENGAGE IN PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER COMBAT IN THIS GAME?
A few do Goon. Of course, YOU DON'T.
Goons engage in "Massive Metagaming Online Club" versus Player. |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
285
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:21:00 -
[211] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:El Boracho wrote:Morganta wrote:exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning True but in a sandbox game there is no single definition of winning. NullSecDude: I am master of this block of space, fear me. HiSecGuy: Who cares NullSecDude: You are ignoring 90% of the game, wtf HiSecGuy: No, I'm just ignoring you. Deal with it. There. That's more like it.
I think it's more like this:
Nullsec dude: (man, this sucks, sitting on this gate, I wantz PVP and pew pew) Hey, you stupid carebears, you are missing 90 percent of the game by not leaving highsec!
Highsec dude: (here we go again, they already won nullsec by killing everything that's not blue and they NAPed up to each other, and now they are out of targets. Should I bother? Oh well) Hey, STFU. When you pay my sub, you can tell me how to play.
Nullsec dude: what's the matter, you scared?
Highsec dude: It's a game, stupid. Just because I don't want to pad your killboard, does not make me scared.
Nullsec dude: Awe c'mon, it's not that hard. Anybody can go to 0.0. You just need to have a couple more accounts to use as backup, join an alliance with all of them, zigzag through every system you are in making safe spots so it takes you 5 minutes per jump, and get used to losing ships a lot that you still have to grind ISK to replace in a hostile environment. How is that so hard.
Highsec dude: (holy **** that's not a game, it sounds like a part time job that you pay to work at and not get paid for working at) Uh, forget it. I don't have time for that crap.
Nullsec dude: (damn! He's not as stupid as I am... I need kills!!) Chicken! *****!! Carebear!! You are killing EvE!! People like you are the wellspring from which all that is wrong with the world flows!!1!! HTFU and come to null!! (that'll show him - I better keep my second monitor on the EvE client while I surf 4chan cause he'll come out now and I want the lulz).
Highsec dude: Nice try, but I'll pass.
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:29:00 -
[212] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Nullsec dude: Awe c'mon, it's not that hard. Anybody can go to 0.0. You just need to have a couple more accounts to use as backup, join an alliance with all of them, zigzag through every system you are in making safe spots so it takes you 5 minutes per jump, and get used to losing ships a lot that you still have to grind ISK to replace in a hostile environment. How is that so hard. lol wut |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:02:00 -
[213] - Quote
Let me go ahead and say
i agree with the people that avoid null like the plague because of all the bubble camps and the not blue shoot it thing, and the you cant dock here in less you lick X alliances balls.
before i started playing EvE ( thats 2 years after launch) how i thought null worked and after i started playing how i seen it worked where 2 TOTALLY different ways.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:07:00 -
[214] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY.
I mean, god damn, boy. |
Steveir
Hagukure
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:07:00 -
[215] - Quote
Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:23:00 -
[216] - Quote
Steveir wrote:Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more.
Public quest - Incursions
Battlegrounds - Faction Wars
that's what they are really, but FW is broken
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:37:00 -
[217] - Quote
And at some point I'm sure CCP will add some sort of 1v1 2v2 4v4 etc options, maybe even where people can sit in a station and place bets on the outcome. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:06:00 -
[218] - Quote
Well that was a great way to kill some time. Some hilarious posts in there. Herzog got a like or two. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
286
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:46:00 -
[219] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy.
You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone.
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:53:00 -
[220] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy. You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. lol you really think we make multiple safes to fly through each system? |
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:00:00 -
[221] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. Implying I'd actually go to the effort of ganking someone. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
286
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:23:00 -
[222] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Steveir wrote:Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more. Public quest - Incursions Battlegrounds - Faction Wars that's what they are really, but FW is broken
It's a real shame that FW is not expanded to let "soldier" be a viable career option. In that other MMO that everybody pretends to hate (while keeping silent about their own twinked level-capped toon) all I did in the last year was battleground PVP. Had some some outrageous number of "honor points" or whatever they called it (haven't played since the end of 2007 so I don't remember).
FW comes close to a battleground PVP, but misses the mark. There is no soldier career.
|
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:32:00 -
[223] - Quote
And there's no real reason to go to 0.0 when the space is controlled by alliance blocs who will:
A) kill you for not being blue, and can use concord reports from the internet to figure out where you are rather than having scanner scouts and do actual intel gathering.
B) decide you can stick around, but you have to play their way, do exactly as they say, bend over and take it while getting on your knees and smiling like a doughnut...
I call this insane risk/no reward.
If I'm in a fleet I can take orders. I have no interest in letting anyone else dictate how I spend my free time or spend my ISK.
That's why I stay out of nullsec.
That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit. They allow too much control over the movements of people, and before you say anything about Cyno, let ships other than blackops and caps mount a jump drive and I'll consider caring.
Especially if you can lock on a planet and use THAT as your jump marker. Since, you know... cyno fields are supposed to simulate a planetary mass large enough for your ship sensors to lock on/jump to?
But since you can't jump into/out of high sec? You have to use the gate camps.
I have no interest in providing easy killmails to pad their PvPeen. i have enough trouble avoiding suicide gankers in high sec, thanks. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:36:00 -
[224] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote: That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit.
lol |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:50:00 -
[225] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Kaylyis wrote: That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit.
lol
yup, it's really funny when you don't have someone else providing ship replacement services. And spending six hours mapping out a survivable pathway to the low and nullsec areas worthwhile only to get two hours of doing whatever?
Ya no thanks.
If people had to work for their killmail cookies? I'd be going in and out of low and nullsec all the damned time. But it takes no work to lock down all the bottlenecks into desirable space and kill everything that comes through. Add to it the jump drive system as it is happens to be vastly unwieldy and clunky and you have a winner.
Especially the instant I pop an NPC mob, or get into a firefight anyone scanning the internet can see my activity? Oh look someone's ratting over there. send ship, Scan down, hotdrop, poof. What industrialists? You have your nullbears that are content to obey you in exchange for botting (sorry, peaceful operation) rights. Why worry about what us highsecers are doing?
So not worth rolling out to those areas. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:53:00 -
[226] - Quote
I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:58:00 -
[227] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv
too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:09:00 -
[228] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. lol I remember when I started playing and discovered eve-central and found that mexallon in Syndicate was a real steal so I decided to roll on down there in my bestower. Needless to say i soon needed a plan B.
then I learned about Provi and loaded like 80% of my wallet in zydrine form into a tormentor and flew blind 20 jumps (I didn't know about jump bridges lol) and regularly made craploads of cash filling in buy orders because Provi had to import high ends back then (haha Provi sucks). Somehow between ninja salvaging holders and frig zydrine runners I wound up recruited and joined part of a series of bad 0.0 alliances and arguably worked my way up to Cascade Imminent.
tbh if I could make it in a tormentor, I don't see why you couldn't. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:13:00 -
[229] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. I don't assume you didn't do any of the following, then:
1) check to see how many were docked and how many were active in system 2) check to see how many ships had been killed the last hour 3) go through in a noobship to check out the ones which didn't seem active
In which case, oh well. |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:20:00 -
[230] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Kaylyis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. lol I remember when I started playing and discovered eve-central and found that mexallon in Syndicate was a real steal so I decided to roll on down there in my bestower. Needless to say i soon needed a plan B. then I learned about Provi and loaded like 80% of my wallet in zydrine form into a tormentor and flew blind 20 jumps (I didn't know about jump bridges lol) and regularly made craploads of cash filling in buy orders because Provi had to import high ends back then (haha Provi sucks). Somehow between ninja salvaging holders and frig zydrine runners I wound up recruited and joined part of a series of bad 0.0 alliances and arguably worked my way up to Cascade Imminent.
Yup. Works, but unfortunately in order to make ISK I've had to run this character + my alt as orca fleet support and miner. I'm still working on getting the skills where I can use the modules. Because I need to afford the ships and such. I'm also skeptical about so-called "safe routes" people speak of because there's a lot of people who give false reports to people to bring 'em into the trap (learned about his the hard way, and I fell for it) and once someone makes a saferoute known in the open, someone will capitalize on it by making sure the safe route goes away.
Cost of doing business. But the cost is a little too high right now. Plus I have less than 7 mil SPs. hit the wrong gate and that's 100+ mil isk down the toilet. Insurance still results in a net loss, never mind whatever cargo I was carrying.
If I could get a confirmed route or was blue to enough low/nullsecers that I didn't universally fall into NBSI? I'd consider the risk of flying into low/null and dropping hulls and materiels on the market more than worth it, or trying to join fleet gangs to learn the game of kill **** in hardmode. I have a megathron and some cruisers I'm willing to risk to learn the hardmode game. If they get blown to ****? I don't freaking care, I'll buy a new one and try again. But trying to go it solo when all your friends are content to sit and chill in highsec?
much harder to get involved. Plus I'm ornery and don't want people to dictate to me how I play the game. In fleet's another story, but in general? no patience for it. |
|
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:23:00 -
[231] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Kaylyis wrote:too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. I don't assume you didn't do any of the following, then: 1) check to see how many were docked and how many were active in system 2) check to see how many ships had been killed the last hour 3) go through in a noobship to check out the ones which didn't seem active In which case, oh well.
Need more skills trained. need to get jump clone skills to make it worth not losing all the cybernetics. Need friends who know how to play the game out there.
When I started? I got a LOT of shitass advice from people who convinced me to play. And I'm just now recovering some of the skillss i should have been training from the get-go. So I've had to learn everything the hard way and am just NOW figuring out how the skills stack together.
For new players like me, Nullsec's by and large not worth the risk. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:34:00 -
[232] - Quote
Well man, many hands make light work. Believe it or not, starting out in 0.0 is pretty easy if you take the initiative find a welcoming corp. High-SP players help with logistics (ie: just cyno down all your stuff) , you have intel channels to help plan your transit. You have access to jump bridges that let you bypass gates (the NC's jump bridge network was incredible at this for example, launching thousands of bears deep into Branch and back). When you're nearby, not busy and an FC asks for help, you chip in what you can. Without scouts and intel, flying an Orca or whatever through null is dangerous as hell, even if it's in your own alliance's space. I could assure you that there are lots of casual 0.0 corps out there that are part of alliances, just like there are carebear corps in highsec who go ballistic if you undock during a wardec.. I certainly couldn't be arsed to live in NBSI 0.0 solo.
|
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
If I get wardec'd I'm jonesing to pack as much firepower as my sad sack skills can muster onto a thorax, tristan or megathron and go see just how big a shitstorm I can stir up :)
Just for the Lulz.
sitting in dock for four weeks till an enemy corp gets bored is about as much fun as going through hostile space with zero chance of winning in the PvP.
Catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't. |
Mediocrity
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.
Whether in an alliance or solo, it's not just that the bar is too high for most other players to want to bother with it (though that's part of it, given the costs in ISK and time/effort), but a lot of people have personalities that just don't enjoy the stress of constantly looking over their shoulder for the next ambush. That stress varies depending on your corp, it's true, but many high-secers like to play solo or with a few friends, and don't have the stomach for corp/alliance politics, backstabbing, rules and regulations, or being forced to play with people they don't like just to survive day-to-day.
Sure, a lot of people look at the continual threat of PvP itself as the selling point, but many others may like a fight once in a while but prefer the other aspects of the game, and find the stress level of navigating 0.0 to be too much. You're never going to convince them to do something they just plain don't think is fun. Most average high-secers who, say, log on for an hour or two after a day at work just can't afford the hassle, and wouldn't want it even if they could.
I think people know pretty well what they want out of the game, and EVE has already mostly sorted itself out based on people's preferences. I don't really see any way the population balance is likely to change unless players are either given additional survival tools to make dealing with the threats of things like gate camps easier on an individual level, the geography of the game is radically changed, or high-sec content is removed to the point that the average high-secer simply gives up and quits the game.
That's not to criticize either mentality; I just think that's the reality of things right now. |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:13:00 -
[235] - Quote
Mediocrity wrote:I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.
Whether in an alliance or solo, it's not just that the bar is too high for most other players to want to bother with it (though that's part of it, given the costs in ISK and time/effort), but a lot of people have personalities that just don't enjoy the stress of constantly looking over their shoulder for the next ambush. That stress varies depending on your corp, it's true, but many high-secers like to play solo or with a few friends, and don't have the stomach for corp/alliance politics, backstabbing, rules and regulations, or being forced to play with people they don't like just to survive day-to-day.
Sure, a lot of people look at the continual threat of PvP itself as the selling point, but many others may like a fight once in a while but prefer the other aspects of the game, and find the stress level of navigating 0.0 to be too much. You're never going to convince them to do something they just plain don't think is fun. Most average high-secers who, say, log on for an hour or two after a day at work just can't afford the hassle, and wouldn't want it even if they could.
I think people know pretty well what they want out of the game, and EVE has already mostly sorted itself out based on people's preferences. I don't really see any way the population balance is likely to change unless players are either given additional survival tools to make dealing with the threats of things like gate camps easier on an individual level, the geography of the game is radically changed, or high-sec content is removed to the point that the average high-secer simply gives up and quits the game.
That's not to criticize either mentality; I just think that's the reality of things right now.
Yup.
death before politics. It's a game, not a job. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 06:00:00 -
[236] - Quote
Clearly my tread has been derailed, i do indeed know the main null routes are camp by people that shoot everything, this thread is for the OP and not why or how Nuller do there thing. I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
Actually look at these azhats posting about how great o.o is..... Those guys are why players dont go to null...
Its not hard to see that just read their posts... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
462
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 19:10:00 -
[238] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: [...] Useless interviews in fake internets pubbie press and so on. [...]
Stopped reading, right here. So fake internets non-pubbie press is somehow more legitimate, eh, TEST/Goon-alt? Go back to your RMT/bot-farming, you sanctimonious little girl, your owners need you...
You look angry, and so wrong, you gave me a good smile irl mostly because of all that importance you give to those internets pubbie press and useless stuff alike. Get a life on your own, pay your bills and come back when you grow in a few years.
But you can keep blah blah about your ubber press ;D
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
146
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 19:15:00 -
[239] - Quote
Mediocrity wrote:I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.[ Null was far more populated and active last year and the year before then now, so I have some doubts that the current population is the maximum it can possibly be. The actual problem is that carebears after crunching the numbers find isk-wise, the current array of (post-nerf) null activities don't measure up to concord-protected incursions or concord-protected PI + L4 missions. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
295
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 16:23:00 -
[240] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy. You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. lol you really think we make multiple safes to fly through each system?
Do you have a better way to get into the gate off the angle of the bubble? The most effective way is to form a triangle and make your own vector.
(there is an even better way than that - but I won't mention it) |
|
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:20:00 -
[241] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Clearly my tread has been derailed, i do indeed know the main null routes are camp by people that shoot everything, this thread is for the OP and not why or how Nuller do there thing.
Not all the routes to null are camped... And once you get a clone there its a relatively simple affair to bring in about 300k m3 of stuff from Jita to keep you well supplied.
|
Barakkus
1183
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:37:00 -
[242] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Rykuss wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:depending on Centurylink as your ISP Yeah. I switched to WOW cable a couple months ago. Faster connection, drops only last a second. Centurylink hours to days. On the other hands I have been getting DCed 3 or 4 times and hour for the last couple weeks. I don't know if it's Eve or WOW but I can log back in immediately. Not a problem in most PVE situations, a major killer in PVP.
If you're referring to Wide Open West as your ISP, it's WOW!, not EVE. Wide Open West (now called WOW!) has had horrible cable service forever, and they have generally been behind the curve in speeds forever. They just caught up to the lower end most major cable companies and still don't service but maybe 1/100th area most major cable providers service.
Make sure your modem is Docsis 3, if it's not you're going to have a lot of issues. |
Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:44:00 -
[243] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote: Need more skills trained. need to get jump clone skills to make it worth not losing all the cybernetics. Need friends who know how to play the game out there.
Join a nullsec corp that can teach you the ropes then! There are a lot of nullsec corps that hire pubbies blind. You're probably not going to get into one that watches the forums now--the whole whining about "unsurvivable gate camps" thing is a fairly large black mark--but you could work up some cred in one of the renter corps until people forget.
If you don't want to, fine...but lack of friends is a choice, not a game mechanic. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
58
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:06:00 -
[244] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: [...] Useless interviews in fake internets pubbie press and so on. [...]
Stopped reading, right here. So fake internets non-pubbie press is somehow more legitimate, eh, TEST/Goon-alt? Go back to your RMT/bot-farming, you sanctimonious little girl, your owners need you... You look angry, and so wrong, you gave me a good smile irl mostly because of all that importance you give to those internets pubbie press and useless stuff alike. Get a life on your own, pay your bills and come back when you grow in a few years. But you can keep blah blah about your ubber press ;D
Oh, for...
Way to completely...not comprehend what you read in the slightest!
That type of myopic fail--is this something you practise?
Oh, and EN24 is your ilk's propaganda-organ, not mine--I read it only for what it's worth: Low-brow entertainment, when I can't remember any fart/poop/dead-baby jokes.
Back to your bots! Move, move, move!
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
283
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:17:00 -
[245] - Quote
Whose mouthpiece did you say EN24 was, again? |
Gorefacer
STRAG3S
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:37:00 -
[246] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:Cregg Neir wrote:Question to OP: Why do you need other people to play the same way you do? Why do you need other people to tell you why they play the game their way? maybe hes just curious?
Burn him! |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:37:00 -
[247] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk? For the same exact reasons PVPers PVP. Just as amassing kills on a killboard is the thrill to some, amassing riches and isk is the thrill to others. I'd say that building up riches is the end goal for many players. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Sure, some will hate. Some will envy. Some will rage, throw tantrums, and insult. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with amassing isk for the sole purpose of amassing isk if that's what tickles you. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:53:00 -
[248] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree. Funny that. Some people do happen to go outside and stare at trees. They'll sit in a park for hours and just stare. Sometimes I go to the beach, won't go in the water and will just sit there, simply enjoying the view and breeze. Does that bother you? Why is it you think that when someone goes outside they have to do what you think it is they have to do? But more to the point, why is it you think that people need to have a conventional goal to play this game? |
Janus Nightmare
ECP Incorporated
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 02:59:00 -
[249] - Quote
I'll bite and answer the question.
As someone who both mines and runs missions, is in a (usually) solo corporation, and until recently rarely interacted with many others, the answer is simple. It's an entertaining way to pass the time.
I'm not a fan of very many TV shows, I like to play games, and I can mine or run missions while doing other things, such as reading forums or watching a movie or working from home.
I have no particular goals in Eve, it's just something to do.
Besides, if I get a bug in my ass and decide I actually do want to do something, well, I've got the isk and can actually do it. That's the nice thing about Eve. It's a sandbox where people can do pretty much whatever they want. There will always be people who ***** because some people like me don't play the game their way, but you know, CCP still gets there money every month so that everyone can keep playing however they want, so my question is, why does anybody else care how I play the game?
|
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 03:40:00 -
[250] - Quote
Why would they when it is a virtual cave that opens to a virtual reality they don't like? |
|
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 03:46:00 -
[251] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:stuff
Why on earth do you care? |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 04:11:00 -
[252] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:stuff Why on earth do you care?
Because 13 pages of answers is not enough information, and this thread so far has been been more civilized than must i have seen in the past 6 months
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Eyup Mi'duck
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 09:57:00 -
[253] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:I have a question ...
Why is it you play EvE if you take no larger roll in the game, (this is not a Y U NO PVP question) you gather large sums of isk but in turn do nothing with it most people have a goal while getting isk be it a new mission ship, a titan or SC, help funding a corp project, funding for playing the markets.
Is there something you do with this isk?
Simple: I enjoy not taking a larger role in the game. I like being a free-running maverick, doing my own stuff when and how I want to. I log-in when I want, with whichever character I fancy, chat with my corpies if they happen to be online too, maybe do some stuff together.
The isk? Well, I grow my pile. Fly anything I want, fitted with whatever I want. A jumpclone in every empire faction, each with a full fleet of top-end ships fitted with sexy mods. I can now solo all level 4's with shields steady above 95%, for example. And my main is close to getting a standing of 10.0 with all four empire navies.
I will never 'own' EVE in the megablob alliance sense, so I set myself realistic personal goals and chew my way towards those.
Each to his own, I guess. I am me.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á I am not you.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áI am happy with this situation. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
30
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 10:42:00 -
[254] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree. Funny that. Some people do happen to go outside and stare at trees. Emphasis on 'some'. A minority about which the same questions could be asked.
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Edit: Nevermind. Didn't take long for you to spew your usual haterade against carebears : If you think a simple observation is 'hate', things must have gotten very soft around here while I was gone.
|
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 11:30:00 -
[255] - Quote
Not perfect to answer this, since I love 0.0 and wh ninja exploration, but I do a lot of high sector too.
Here are my main motivations to do high sector:
a) Collector: - I want any sub capital ship in eve as a nice faction fit - I want all freely available bpo in eve as 100/100 - I want a 8.0 corp standing with every npc corp in eve ;)
b) Number junkie: - I want to do any mission done as fast as possible (meaning I optimize ships and fittings a lot to make a perfect run). (ps I would love to have a statistic in eve here ;) - I want to know every little piece of eve, every aspect, every profession, every mission, every plex (cosmos, fw or exploration) or expedition
c) I don't like waiting. Every time you do some group jobs it basically means waiting a lot for all people being ready. No fun
d) RL. 0.0 and blob warfare really suck, if you have to leave right in the middle and don't have more than 20min anyhow. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
283
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 11:42:00 -
[256] - Quote
Mussaschi wrote:d) RL. 0.0 and blob warfare really suck, if you have to leave right in the middle and don't have more than 20min anyhow. There's tons of things which can be done in 0.0 which doesn't require 5+ hours of dedication pr day, it's not all 0.0 == blob warfare all day erry day, but there's no denying that 0.0 is something which commonly does require more work. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 12:18:00 -
[257] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:It's like, it's nice to be outside right (so I'm told lol)? Outside is nice. So people go outside a lot. But they don't just stand there and stare at a tree for six hours and then go home. They do things. But, in EVE, some people do just stand and stare at the tree. Funny that. Some people do happen to go outside and stare at trees. Emphasis on 'some'. A minority about which the same questions could be asked. And again I will ask you; does that bother you? |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars IMPERIAL LEGI0N
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 12:39:00 -
[258] - Quote
1 word: SANDBOX.
This means any player can play EVE the way THEY like it. Some like null-sec, others like Incursions. Hell, I even have an alliance member who didn't undock his ship in about 8 months. All he does is chat, train, spin his ship, play on market and gives advice to people. If he wants to do that, he CAN, that's what makes EVE fun for every sub.
True, I'm also fascinated what makes people to stay in Empire. Especially the true mission runners, after 1 week of mission running myself I got bored about the whole concept. There are only a handfull of missions (though name and rats vary) and it usually goes like this: Undock - Fly to mission pocket - Shoot any red crosses on your overview - Return to station - (optional: take the noctis to salvage the white triangles on your overview) - Turn in mission.
So I wonder, what is it that keeps those mission runners going. On incursions, never done them, so no clue about what drives those people. Hear the rewards are great, but then in the end, when you have the ultimate ship + fit, what else is there to gain from the Incursions beside loads of ISK and LP and the gratification you just shot a couple of Sansha's home again. (No offence to both mission runner and incursion runners here btw, like I said EVE is just a out-of-space version of the Sahara dessert, so people can do what they want).
I do agree that more people should TRY low-sec and null-sec but am totally against forcing people there or complaining that people like to stay in Empire. When I started my character I said I wouldn't leave empire ever, then some people said I should at least try null-sec. Now I'm sold and never want to leave null though I also like to spent some small times in the safety of high-sec from time to time.
Conclusion, good idea of the OP. Though not the way he started the post. J'Poll Recruiter - Imperial Legi0n
As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch |
Japanese Jeans
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 14:24:00 -
[259] - Quote
I am one of these players the OP is referring to. The game for me is solo, it may not have been designed this way, but actually most of the game lends itself well to solo play except ironically PVP.
So I spend my time mining, building, trading, hauling, mission running and exploring.
I have lived in lo and hi sec but from my view the game is hi-sec - anyone who goes to null is only going to farm ISK - what else i s actually there in null?? To play the actual game it's lo and hi - simple.
The reason I don't join a corp - because I will not take orders, I will not wear a headset and talk to the screen., show me a corp of like minded players - equals - and I will join.
Most of all EVE is a solo game, say what you like, it is solo and I'm just waiting for CCP to realize this and let us have safe space, PVP arena tournaments, the ability to walk around in stations, and to build bars and space-stations.
For the game to grow this is the future - not null.
Ask yourselves why the subscriber numbers are so low for a game as complex and beautiful as eve.
|
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 14:57:00 -
[260] - Quote
Pedant in Chief here...if any corp the OP is in is offering rolls, I'll have a cheese and onion one please.
I suspect he meant 'roles'"?
H |
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 15:18:00 -
[261] - Quote
Japanese Jeans wrote:I am one of these players the OP is referring to. The game for me is solo, it may not have been designed this way, but actually most of the game lends itself well to solo play except ironically PVP.
So I spend my time mining, building, trading, hauling, mission running and exploring.
I have lived in lo and hi sec but from my view the game is hi-sec - anyone who goes to null is only going to farm ISK - what else i s actually there in null?? To play the actual game it's lo and hi - simple.
The reason I don't join a corp - because I will not take orders, I will not wear a headset and talk to the screen., show me a corp of like minded players - equals - and I will join.
Most of all EVE is a solo game, say what you like, it is solo and I'm just waiting for CCP to realize this and let us have safe space, PVP arena tournaments, the ability to walk around in stations, and to build bars and space-stations.
For the game to grow this is the future - not null.
Ask yourselves why the subscriber numbers are so low for a game as complex and beautiful as eve.
I disagree, even tho most of isk creating activities are indeed solo / two, three accounts...
|
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 19:48:00 -
[262] - Quote
and in other thoughts, so far this thread has provided a wealth of information, on the activity of the players of EvE.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 21:12:00 -
[263] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Carebears know why he's asking. He's upset and butthurt that some people just don't play the way he does. Carebears always think that reality is defined by what they think it is. They think this about EVE and about other people. It's like they are all solipsists or something.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
The idea of solipsism is that only one's "Self" or mind can be verified and nothing else. After all, we might be living in the Matrix or our neighbors might really BE super sophisticated non-intelligent robots.)
Somewhere along the line solipsism became equated with narcissism which it is NOT.
Solipsism says there is nothing but the self.
Narcissism says the world should reflect the self.
They are quite different.
Why not just say they are self-centered? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
195
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 21:49:00 -
[264] - Quote
Japanese Jeans wrote:I am one of these players the OP is referring to. The game for me is solo, it may not have been designed this way, but actually most of the game lends itself well to solo play except ironically PVP.
So I spend my time mining, building, trading, hauling, mission running and exploring.
Mining -- OK yeah you can solo that (but it's a hell of a lot more "fun" to bullshit with mates whilst doing so). Building -- Unless you're not sourcing materials from the market, I suppose you can build solo. But it takes a DAMN long time to get materials for stuff. Trading -- you're trading with other people... Hauling -- OK, mostly solo ... but it's nice to be with people and be able to say "hey, if you have space, you mind grabbing me a $THING on your way home from Jita?" Mission Running -- nearly as soul crushing as mining alone. Exploration -- you kinda need people if you're exploring W-space (sleepers hurt )
Japanese Jeans wrote:I have lived in lo and hi sec but from my view the game is hi-sec - anyone who goes to null is only going to farm ISK - what else i s actually there in null?? To play the actual game it's lo and hi - simple.
Nullsec is centred around building YOUR paradise amongst the stars (or, well, that's what it's supposed to be). Yeah, you can make a ton of ISK by being out there. Empire and W-space are gimped variants of null. Hisec -- CONCORD, etc Lowsec -- still get GCC, no sov, no bubbles, etc W-space -- null sans supercaps
Japanese Jeans wrote:The reason I don't join a corp - because I will not take orders, I will not wear a headset and talk to the screen., show me a corp of like minded players - equals - and I will join.
Funny, I've never had a problem finding a corp where people were treated as equals the majority of the time. Sure, there's always the situations where you get to "hey guys, we really need you to train $SKILL to help us accomplish $GOAL -- here's the book". Honestly, that's not a bad thing though.
No TS/Vent comms because you don't want to speak rather than type is pretty daft. Do you also reject the usage of phones because you're talking to open air?
Japanese Jeans wrote:Most of all EVE is a solo game, say what you like, it is solo and I'm just waiting for CCP to realize this and let us have safe space, PVP arena tournaments, the ability to walk around in stations, and to build bars and space-stations. For the game to grow this is the future - not null.
So, um, go to SISI once in a while. WiS (if done PROPERLY) may be a nice facet of EVE, but the core gameplay is FiS.
Funny story about WiS being the "future" of EVE -- it nearly killed it. Now that they've refocused on FiS, things are starting to look good again. I don't think WiS will be killed off, but it's never going to be more than a niche market within CCP's playerbase.
Japanese Jeans wrote:Ask yourselves why the subscriber numbers are so low for a game as complex and beautiful as eve.
Niche Game Not a WOW Clone Not on Rails Wait, you mean I have to come up with the content?! Learning Cliff
TBH though, I don't mind the fact that the game is only 300k subscribers or so.
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
31
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 21:51:00 -
[265] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Why not just say they are self-centered? Because that isn't what I meant. |
Sieges
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 23:01:00 -
[266] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:-Spaceships are cool. -Explosions are pretty. -The thunder of guns is satisfying. -Seeing more money coming in that going out isn't something I get to see a lot in real life :P
But mostly, I don't have the time to invest in a corp. I only play when I feel like it, and when things like Skyrim come along, I may not log in for weeks. That doesn't make me a good asset to a corp. Things like POS's require upkeep and protection, so I can't even effectively homestead my own place. I could low-sec pvp, but I don't play enough to generate the income to keep up that sort of lifestyle, since I'll probably lose a lot of ships learning.
So what is there for someone like me to do that isn't mining boring, but pays well? Mission. Content that is always there, always ready, and based on my timetable. Beholden to no one's schedule or desires but my own.
And you act like I never buy anything. Like my isk mountain just grows and grows and I sleep on it like some sort of really awesome space dragon. I buy better modules. I dump salvage into the system. I buy a crap ton of ammunition. I buy rigs and better tractors for my salvage boat. I buy scout ships for when I want to just fly around the universe for no damn reason other than to see the sights. True, I've been saving for a Machariel, so I have some wealth amassed, but I also bought a Tornado a couple days ago just because it was so sweet looking. I don't even have a use for it. But boom, 51 mill in someone's pocket.
I play the game the way I've found it works for me. No one gets to tell me whether that's right or wrong. It is mine.
I am saving up to buy an Archon just because I think it would be cool to have. I won't even play docking games with it. |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
81
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 02:52:00 -
[267] - Quote
As an industrialist player, I would go to null more easily if it wasn't such a gigantic pita to move my stuff. First I have to run my clone out there so I can hop back and forth, then I need to get some ships and gear out there either by shipping it myself or jumping it down. Then I have to work in an environment where mining is a hell of a lot of work for not a huge gain. T1 manufacturing is a huge hassle and T2 is almost impossible compared to empire.
If you want people in null sec, it's not the risk people should be looking at. It's the logistics of being able to do things like refine minerals, build T2 items and ships, and being able to move into null sec without taking half a day trying to find a pipe without bubbles and gate camps to get there. In a nutshell, I would like to see improvements to make manufacturing easier. That would be a start. I can deal with getting a clone to null, but being able to buy/build my stuff there would make it less of a hassle and easier for me to contribute. If need a freighter full of crap before I can do much, that's not going to get me moving any faster.
I don't care about losing ships or getting podded. I care about wasting my time when I should be having fun. Most of my times in null have been a waste of my time.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
|
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 03:34:00 -
[268] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Nullbeard Rager wrote:Why not just say they are self-centered? Because that isn't what I meant.
Let us know when you figure it out. Solipsism means that nothing can be verified to exist past the "self" and has nothing to do with how people think things should be. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
50
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 04:38:00 -
[269] - Quote
I'm surprised anyone is still in nullsec. You'd have to be a zombie to suffer being told what to do, having your play dictated by what the gang wants to do. No personal freedom. Getting hassled for not being logged in all the time. Getting hassled for not being a sad, online nerd all day. And what do you mainly do? Long periods of nothing while roaming around killing anything smaller than you.
******* BORING.
Their is a shitload to do in hisec/lowsec in your own time in your own way - and it doesn't have to be PVP-free. |
Ioci
Space Mermaids
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 04:50:00 -
[270] - Quote
The question should be, How many people will never go back to null sec. Some might have spent a day there, some might have spent years. The common element being, once you did it and decided it wasn't for you or wasn't any longer it's back to high sec or quit. Most if not all players in EVE go there much like low sec. It's a question of what they do after that. |
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Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 06:19:00 -
[271] - Quote
Japanese Jeans wrote:I am one of these players the OP is referring to. The game for me is solo, it may not have been designed this way, but actually most of the game lends itself well to solo play except ironically PVP.
So I spend my time mining, building, trading, hauling, mission running and exploring.
I have lived in lo and hi sec but from my view the game is hi-sec - anyone who goes to null is only going to farm ISK - what else i s actually there in null?? To play the actual game it's lo and hi - simple.
The reason I don't join a corp - because I will not take orders, I will not wear a headset and talk to the screen., show me a corp of like minded players - equals - and I will join.
Most of all EVE is a solo game, say what you like, it is solo and I'm just waiting for CCP to realize this and let us have safe space, PVP arena tournaments, the ability to walk around in stations, and to build bars and space-stations.
For the game to grow this is the future - not null.
Ask yourselves why the subscriber numbers are so low for a game as complex and beautiful as eve.
As much as some of the things in nullsec give me an eyetwitch and a groan...
I think there's quite enough easy ISK routes in highsec that there doesn't need to be yet more added to make it a carebear paradise.
For all my lack of skills training now... I'm on the fence about null. On one hand... I'm not ready for the plunge yet. Partly for the reasons given while half-asleep, and pissed off at other ****, so my comments came off a lot more whiny/harsh than intended.
On the OTHER hand... there's a small list of things i want to do that you can't do in highsec.
Fleet booster in a war fleet. not an incursion fleet. a war fleet.
Carriers (so far off in the distant future it's not even funny)
High-risk mining ops. Preferrably as orca/rorqual support.
raiding (no not WoW raiding, hit and run attacks meant to destabilize an area, and disrupt supply and communications lines)
Making an Avatar go pop.
sneak into a major alliance home system, and graffiti the station. with artillery.
Hot drop an invasion fleet.
get hot-dropped in an invasion fleet.
Blockade running (this is the counterpoint to my distaste for gatecamps. I enjoy figuring out how to wiggle through them successfully. it's like trolling, only more aggravating to the gatecampers)
make an Erebus go pop
black ops assault on an enemy fleet. Kamikaze bomber runs for the win.
deathrace null! (everyone gets a fast frigate. the racetrack is mapped through as much hostile space as possible. person who makes it the furthest in a non-cloaked ship wins)
make a Ragnarok go pop
Actually see a carrier in the game as opposed to the little preview window and youtube
actually see a mothership in action, again, not on youtube.
Fly logistics in a 300+ fleet battle
make a leviathan go pop
See a titan in play
blast the ever living **** out of the one idiot in local (there's always one, and if you're wondering who I'm talking about, it's you)
Shoot someone for the Lulz.
Actually get a chance to retaliate and hurt a ************ before concord sucks all the adrenaline out by killing the ****** first.
Get killmail untainted by CONCORD assistance
get a frigate swarm of cranky, pissed-off assholes together and go on a rampage, in the original goon style that made me laugh my ass off when i heard about it the first time.
Blow up a station
Build a station.
take over a system or three.
Destabilize an alliance via fleet warfare. (i don't care who, i just wanna see **** explode)
supply arms and equipment to dangerous, untrustworthy people for profit.
get shot down by my own arms and equipment that I built for untrustworthy people :)
that's a rather long list of **** you can't do in highsec. it's why I'm not dismissing the potential of ever going. I'm just not ready yet. I don't have nearly the stockpile of cheap ships, guns, modules, ammo, etc. I want to go forth and get my ass blown up repeatedly. And when i get into my first REAL PvP action?
I'd like to have the skills so whatever ship I'm flying doesn't just pop like a zit. It's no fun when you can't shoot back effectively. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1051
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 06:48:00 -
[272] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:I'm surprised anyone is still in nullsec. You'd have to be a zombie to suffer being told what to do, having your play dictated by what the gang wants to do. No personal freedom. Getting hassled for not being logged in all the time. Getting hassled for not being a sad, online nerd all day. And what do you mainly do? Long periods of nothing while roaming around killing anything smaller than you.
******* BORING.
Their is a shitload to do in hisec/lowsec in your own time in your own way - and it doesn't have to be PVP-free. Why are you commenting on nullsec when you obviously haven't lived there?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 10:49:00 -
[273] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:On the OTHER hand... there's a small list of things i want to do that you can't do in highsec.
...
Fly logistics in a 300+ fleet battle
I wouldn't make that one a goal. The incoming damage is way too high to rep, and you just end up feeling useless as well as getting no kills. Everybody loves logi, of course, but flying them can be downright discouraging at times.
Quote:that's a rather long list of **** you can't do in highsec. it's why I'm not dismissing the potential of ever going. I'm just not ready yet. I don't have nearly the stockpile of cheap ships, guns, modules, ammo, etc. I want to go forth and get my ass blown up repeatedly. And when i get into my first REAL PvP action?
I'd like to have the skills so whatever ship I'm flying doesn't just pop like a zit. It's no fun when you can't shoot back effectively
I like your list. Not all of it necessarily makes sense (for example, in 0.0 'dangerous, untrustworthy people' includes everybody, including your corpmates), but it's a darned good list and entirely achievable. I went through and checked off the ones I've done; I'm missing 4.
There's a trap you may be falling into, though, which is that of excessive preparation. People often tell themselves that they'll go out to 0.0 someday, at some point, when they have the right skills and enough money, but what they end up doing is spend years 'preparing' and never get around to actually taking the leap.
You don't need a stockpile of ships or a bunch of level 5 skills, just a couple of hundred million isk to buy and fit ships (your staging system will be well stocked if you're in an alliance) and the skills to fly at least one fleet ship. Level 5 skills are nice, but in an actual fight experience is much more likely to save your ship; and there's only one way to get experience.
You can even give it a try without actually committing. Off the top of my head the agony unleashed university apparently covers ~real 0.0 small gang pvp~, e-uni are more general but also cover pvp, and noir is doing a class in January. |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 15:03:00 -
[274] - Quote
Quote:I like your list. Not all of it necessarily makes sense (for example, in 0.0 'dangerous, untrustworthy people' includes everybody, including your corpmates), but it's a darned good list and entirely achievable. I went through and checked off the ones I've done; I'm missing 4.
that is entirely the point! Some of the list was for pure tongue-in-cheek personal amusement
Quote:There's a trap you may be falling into, though, which is that of excessive preparation. People often tell themselves that they'll go out to 0.0 someday, at some point, when they have the right skills and enough money, but what they end up doing is spend years 'preparing' and never get around to actually taking the leap.
You don't need a stockpile of ships or a bunch of level 5 skills, just a couple of hundred million isk to buy and fit ships (your staging system will be well stocked if you're in an alliance) and the skills to fly at least one fleet ship. Level 5 skills are nice, but in an actual fight experience is much more likely to save your ship; and there's only one way to get experience.
You can even give it a try without actually committing. Off the top of my head the agony unleashed university apparently covers ~real 0.0 small gang pvp~, e-uni are more general but also cover pvp, and noir is doing a class in January.
I just want to be able to load tech 2 guns and modules, as this seems to be the standard for skills to shoot for, even though I'm planning to use cheap ships and cheap modules for my first few runs.
I don't feel the need to take the plunge with a strat cruiser. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 15:44:00 -
[275] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Hecatonis wrote:i dont think you (and the others asking similar questions) understand the answer, i am saying people dont need a goal. you might, i might, but not everyone does. If you don't have a goal, you are just seeking mindless gratification. Like someone who takes drugs, for instance.
So that explains my facination.... |
Karthwritte
Darthrin Storm Enterprise Drunken Capsuleers
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 16:07:00 -
[276] - Quote
I don't always go to null sec. But when I do, I get killed. Stay dead my friends. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
104
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 16:19:00 -
[277] - Quote
I was on my way to null with my alts.... Then SC nerf happend
Now... im a highsec super care |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 17:06:00 -
[278] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:I was on my way to null with my alts.... Then SC nerf happend Now... im a highsec super care
I need to correct my ignorance here.
What's the SC nerf? |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
104
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 17:44:00 -
[279] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:Tore Vest wrote:I was on my way to null with my alts.... Then SC nerf happend Now... im a highsec super care I need to correct my ignorance here. What's the SC nerf? No time for stupid questions. To buzzy melting veldspar |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 18:14:00 -
[280] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Kaylyis wrote:Tore Vest wrote:I was on my way to null with my alts.... Then SC nerf happend Now... im a highsec super care I need to correct my ignorance here. What's the SC nerf? No time for stupid questions. To buzzy melting veldspar
never mind. Forum search function for the win. |
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