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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Erfnam It is disturbing that ISS management have not really confronted the issue/accusations. The actions of ISS and the accused are very suspicious. What sort of reporting will be made public on a regular basis? Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? (no mention of this in the doc and ISS has not been very good about public reporting in the past) When will be the first dividend? (No mention of this in the doc...I don't want assumptions...I want a clear answer from ISS) Will the dividend be at least 5% of the share value? (Will share value ever change?) What are your plans when you do not raise 500b after 6 months? 12 months? (expanded upon last question) Will shares be eternally sold at 10m each? Or will the IPO be closed at some point? Pizi, I am unable to find mention of you as an ISS representative. If I am mistaken, my apologies and you should update forum settings to show alliance and also the ISS site and documentation to mention your roles. Otherwise, don't answer questions you are not in a position to answer. Time Cube Syndicate is recruiting
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:41:00 - [62] im in no way or form an ISS representant nor am i trying to impose one i think _______________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German] Say no to BMs
SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:04:00 - [63] Originally by: voogru Originally by: SencneS To all fairness on ISS, it also depends on what they where told.. If these ISK farmers told ISS, "We are looking to join your alliance and will pay your fees in turn we will sell our ore/minerals and refine at your stations." Why would ISS be to blame for these peoples lies? Acceptance into the alliance is only as good as the information they have. When someone comes in with a substantial amount of proof that they are indeed, lying, and trying to use ISS as a shield from a war, TWICE., it is then ISS's failure to act, either because they do not believe me, or are just turning a blind eye to the problem. You missed the important part of my post "We only know one side of the story." Maybe they did have some sort of agreement, maybe ISS did turn a blind eye. Maybe you're the one lieing. With only one side of the story we can't exactly make an informed choice. Don't take this the wrong way, you are still only one person. Even with proof that confirms what you are saying is true. ISS may have had a reason for doing this, but we don't know what it could be. If anything these ISK farmers are abusing ISS's good will. There is such as thing as "Being to nice is a bad thing." If we take everything you said as Gold the only issue I have with ISS is they are being too nice, and they should Cut them loose if they are draining resources from the corp. Then again being nice is not exactly a bad trait.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:11:00 - [64] Originally by: Baun Look at how long EFS took. No matter how great your day has been so far you must still have about 3 times the most money any IPO has ever raised left to raise. EFS was a grassroots initiative and it took months for people to trust enough to invest a lot of isk into that. ISS has made many IPOs in the past and they've all performed amicably (albiet some better than others). Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Sria hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:58:00 - [65] selling shares 9 mil a piece :P Co-Founder of Xenu Nuclear Technologies
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:07:00 - [66] Edited by: Serenity Steele on 11/12/2006 20:13:12 Originally by: Erfnam It is disturbing that ISS management have not really confronted the issue/accusations. The actions of ISS and the accused are very suspicious. We have answered voogru on several occasions. (Will edit this post when I find the thread). ISS's position on the matter is that it is an issue for the GMs to take action on ISK Farmers and Voogru should report them there. In the event we are aware of trangressions of the EULA, we will report those as well, regardless of which corporation or alliance the player is in - including the ISS. To answer your other questions; What sort of reporting will be made public on a regular basis? Monthly reporting on the Key Performance Indicators required to manage the ISSO. Total profitability, Dividend Amounts, Total Stock, Current division of capital by Activity. Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? Please provide linkage to Stuff's reporting :) When will be the first dividend? 2 Jan 2006. (1st Jan we'll be hungover). Will the dividend be at least 5% of the share value? The dividend will be 5% of the share value for the first months until return on capital exceeds 10%. What are your plans when you do not raise 500b after 6 months? 12 months? Initially, the total scale of the objectives may change slightly, however the mix of activities and return on shares will remain to plan. ISS will then use their profits from the plan (ie. after dividend) to buy the remaining shares. The plan doesn't rely on the total amount of shares to be sold to start. We have already started working the first 30bn of capital received. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:20:00 - [67] Edited by: voogru on 11/12/2006 20:22:18 Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Erfnam It is disturbing that ISS management have not really confronted the issue/accusations. The actions of ISS and the accused are very suspicious. We have answered voogru on several occasions. (Will edit this post when I find the thread). ISS's position on the matter is that it is an issue for the GMs to take action on ISK Farmers and Voogru should report them there. In the event we are aware of trangressions of the EULA, we will report those as well, regardless of which corporation or alliance the player is in - including the ISS. The problem, in the meantime, they are using ISS resources and making more money because of being in an alliance, they are also virtually immune to a war, making it so I can't effectivly take action against them myself without an expensive war with ISS. I provided you with evidence which you, said was suspecious, but you still do not want to do anything to stop the farming.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:44:00 - [68] Originally by: Pizi Originally by: Dark Shikari ISK farming and selling is against the EULA and bannable. It is not endorsed by CCP, and anyone attempting to justify it is wrong. absolutly true but a post on the forums is hardly a proof , report them and let the GM¦s handle it. noone here can proof if someone is macroin or multiaccounting and sirt infront of 5 computers But ISK selling is provable within the game, and if you talk to Voogru, you could learn his methods for finding these people. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:56:00 - [69] Originally by: Dark Shikari But ISK selling is provable within the game, and if you talk to Voogru, you could learn his methods for finding these people. Dark Shikari, we didn't get sny PROOF from voogru. He provided information but it wasn't proof. And you know that this is off-topic for the thread, take it in-game please. If you have proof (and I mean proof, not anecdotes), mail me it and the corp will be removed. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:02:00 - [70] Originally by: voogru The problem, in the meantime, they are using ISS resources and making more money because of being in an alliance, they are also virtually immune to a war, making it so I can't effectivly take action against them myself without an expensive war with ISS. I provided you with evidence which you, said was suspecious, but you still do not want to do anything to stop the farming. Yes, I also said it should be reported to the GMs, and if you hadn't done so I would do so. If you wish to keep discussion open further on this topic, get a new thread. And type it into the convo you're in with me right now New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:18:00 - [71] Any futher conversation about this issue, either make another thread or contact me in the game. I've made my point in this thread.
Barbicane The Gun Club	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:40:00 - [72] Any plans to introduce these shares on the EGSE, or otherwise encourage trading with them? (assuming they sell out in the near future of course )
Ezoran DuBlaidd Minmatar Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:52:00 - [73] Originally by: Barbicane Any plans to introduce these shares on the EGSE, or otherwise encourage trading with them? (assuming they sell out in the near future of course ) they're already trading on the RESX.
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:55:00 - [74] Originally by: Serenity Steele To answer your other questions; What sort of reporting will be made public on a regular basis? Monthly reporting on the Key Performance Indicators required to manage the ISSO. Total profitability, Dividend Amounts, Total Stock, Current division of capital by Activity. I look forward to the first report. Quote: Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? Please provide linkage to Stuff's reporting :) As per your request. Time Cube Syndicate is recruiting
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:12:00 - [75] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 22:12:29 Originally by: Serenity Steele Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? Please provide linkage to Stuff's reporting :) I really have not provided that much detail (though as per the above post I did mention a lot about internal workings in the thread)... but there is information (including FAQs and the like on how the corporation works) at our website. Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Dark Shikari But ISK selling is provable within the game, and if you talk to Voogru, you could learn his methods for finding these people. Dark Shikari, we didn't get sny PROOF from voogru. He provided information but it wasn't proof. I wouldn't know. I didn't say it was proof in this particular case--I simply said it is possible to prove that someone is an ISK seller. Anyways, you're right about this being off-topic. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Barbicane Any plans to introduce these shares on the EGSE, or otherwise encourage trading with them? (assuming they sell out in the near future of course ) Yes, the application to be listed on EGSE is already in. As soon as it completes their requirements (3 brokers to review), then it will be listed as tradeable. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:26:00 - [77] Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Barbicane Any plans to introduce these shares on the EGSE, or otherwise encourage trading with them? (assuming they sell out in the near future of course ) Yes, the application to be listed on EGSE is already in. As soon as it completes their requirements (3 brokers to review), then it will be listed as tradeable. I'll be a broker if required. (They get like 3% comission, right? ^^) Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:27:00 - [78] Originally by: Erfnam Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? Please provide linkage to Stuff's reporting :) As per your request. Yes it will match/exceed that level of reporting. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:33:00 - [79] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 22:33:56 Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Erfnam Will it match the level of detail provided by STUFF? Please provide linkage to Stuff's reporting :) As per your request. Yes it will match/exceed that level of reporting. Good, good Next question. Lets say 100 billion (20% of shares) have sold so far and profit for the month is 2 billion. Will the dividend be 2% to each of the sold shares (i.e. a total dividend of 10b with 8b kept by corp wallet and 2b sent out) or will it be a 2b total dividend, so investors only get 0.4%? -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:27:00 - [80] Originally by: Dark Shikari Next question. Lets say 100 billion (20% of shares) have sold so far and profit for the month is 2 billion. Will the dividend be 2% to each of the sold shares (i.e. a total dividend of 10b with 8b kept by corp wallet and 2b sent out) or will it be a 2b total dividend, so investors only get 0.4%? 5% of 100b is 5b. If you notice the document, a minimum return on investment of 5% is guarateed. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Dark Shikari Next question. Lets say 100 billion (20% of shares) have sold so far and profit for the month is 2 billion. Will the dividend be 2% to each of the sold shares (i.e. a total dividend of 10b with 8b kept by corp wallet and 2b sent out) or will it be a 2b total dividend, so investors only get 0.4%? Good Question, I'm glad you asked :) The Scenario you describe If only 100bn shares are sold in the first month, profit will be 5bn to shareholders (Fixed Guarantee). Those holders of the 100bn shares will receive 5bn in total dividends, divided amongst them by shares owned. As there are 500bn of total shares, this would on require a 25bn dividend to get the 5bn to the shareholders. In practice, we are actively working all the cash, so it would be achieved by a means other than 25bn cash ISK in a single dividend. The solution is thus in the scenario you describe The ISSO will issue 5 x 5bn ISK dividends on the same day. Why is that the same for the shareholders and the ISSO? 80% of each 5bn dividend will return to ISSO wallet (4bn) and the other 20% (1bn) will end up in the shareholder wallets. 5 dividends x 1bn = 5bn = 5% as promised to the shareholders of 100bn in shares. What is that better than a single 25bn ISK dividend? This solution only requires 10bn in cash ISK. Thus the majority of capital (Remaining 90%) can continue to be actively used in investments. Again, In Practice, the ISSO tends to have 10bn in cashflow anyway, so 100% of the IPO capital will be working. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:32:00 - [82] Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Dark Shikari Next question. Lets say 100 billion (20% of shares) have sold so far and profit for the month is 2 billion. Will the dividend be 2% to each of the sold shares (i.e. a total dividend of 10b with 8b kept by corp wallet and 2b sent out) or will it be a 2b total dividend, so investors only get 0.4%? Good Question, I'm glad you asked :) The Scenario you describe If only 100bn shares are sold in the first month, profit will be 5bn to shareholders (Fixed Guarantee). Those holders of the 100bn shares will receive 5bn in total dividends, divided amongst them by shares owned. As there are 500bn of total shares, this would on require a 25bn dividend to get the 5bn to the shareholders. In practice, we are actively working all the cash, so it would be achieved by a means other than 25bn cash ISK in a single dividend. The solution is thus in the scenario you describe The ISSO will issue 5 x 5bn ISK dividends on the same day. Why is that the same for the shareholders and the ISSO? 80% of each 5bn dividend will return to ISSO wallet (4bn) and the other 20% (1bn) will end up in the shareholder wallets. 5 dividends x 1bn = 5bn = 5% as promised to the shareholders of 100bn in shares. What is that better than a single 25bn ISK dividend? This solution only requires 10bn in cash ISK. Thus the majority of capital (Remaining 90%) can continue to be actively used in investments. Again, In Practice, the ISSO tends to have 10bn in cashflow anyway, so 100% of the IPO capital will be working. Good, so it will be an actual % to shareholders. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Aversin Gallente JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 00:03:49 5 0 0 b i l l i o n ?! Note to the noobs: the above is a link. Note to the l33t h4xors, the above is stupidly complicated forumcode... hover over the various letters to see what I mean. omg is darki shikari a /B/TARD? Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:38:00 - [84] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 23:39:36 Originally by: Aversin Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 00:03:49 5 0 0 b i l l i o n ?! Note to the noobs: the above is a link. Note to the l33t h4xors, the above is stupidly complicated forumcode... hover over the various letters to see what I mean. omg is darki shikari a /B/TARD? Nope. I've actually never clicked on a link going to /b/. Its my own personal policy. On the other hand, its impossible to ignore the sewage from /b/ that drips over the side of 4chan and flows across the rest of the internet. I know quite a number of the 4chan memes. By the way, i herd u liek mudkips -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Aversin Gallente JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:49:00 - [85] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 23:39:36 Originally by: Aversin Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 11/12/2006 00:03:49 5 0 0 b i l l i o n ?! Note to the noobs: the above is a link. Note to the l33t h4xors, the above is stupidly complicated forumcode... hover over the various letters to see what I mean. omg is darki shikari a /B/TARD? Nope. I've actually never clicked on a link going to /b/. Its my own personal policy. On the other hand, its impossible to ignore the sewage from /b/ that drips over the side of 4chan and flows across the rest of the internet. I know quite a number of the 4chan memes. By the way, i herd u liek mudkips no one ever admits how big of a /b/tard they are the first time you ask :) However back on topic, plan sounds good to me, I'll probbly buy a few shares. Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.12 00:42:00 - [86] Originally by: Aversin no one ever admits how big of a /b/tard they are the first time you ask :) Everything I know about /b/ I've learned from Wakachan's /azu/, a friend of mine who posts on /b/, and Encyclopaedia Dramatica (warning: Dramatica is NOT worksafe). -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.12 03:49:00 - [87] Am I the only one mildly concerned by the timing of this IPO in such close proximety to IACs declaration of hostility?
Phoenix Pryde Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:06:00 - [88] As former public spokesmen of the TRUST ingame alliance (disbanded in april) i request changing the description of the Cassini OP on page 4 of your ISSO IPO document (Linkage). The description is outright wrong. D2 did not even exist at that time. BoB seized the station from TRUST alliance. Following TRUST's retaking of the station it was sold to ISS who then made it into the Cassini IPO. Again, it wasnt D2 who sold it, but TRUST. regards Phoenix Pryde TRUST Shop // Infinite Improbability Inc [3-I]
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Aeaus Am I the only one mildly concerned by the timing of this IPO in such close proximety to IACs declaration of hostility? The IPO was planned long before the IAC declaration of war. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:54:00 - [90] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Aeaus Am I the only one mildly concerned by the timing of this IPO in such close proximety to IACs declaration of hostility? The IPO was planned long before the IAC declaration of war. That is not the issue. The issue is how will the IAC Declaration of Hostility impact ISS in meeting its goals?

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