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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
2
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:32:47 -
[1] - Quote
Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
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Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36605
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:36:14 -
[2] - Quote
I'd have overlooked this thread if you suggested a discount for the first few months, or given a like... but free to play...?
you must be new here.
I am a cat.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2536
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:43:43 -
[3] - Quote
Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:44:59 -
[4] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:I'd have overlooked this thread if you suggested a discount for the first few months, or given a like... but free to play...?
you must be new here.
I am not new 8 years in same corp.
A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.
People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
I personally love the game the way it is but its very hard to find people to join me in playing it for more then a month. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:54:43 -
[5] - Quote
your ignorance makes me cringe.
I am a cat.
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Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2366
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:56:12 -
[6] - Quote
Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:00:53 -
[7] - Quote
[quote=Omar Alharazaad]Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered. [/q
They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people.
They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve.
These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map.
They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:08:54 -
[8] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? considering all options of isk income, you are in fact doing it right.
I am a cat.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1602
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:11:33 -
[9] - Quote
I'm trying to imagine what would happen to the community.... so many ways it could go. Would be cool to see a ton of people in space though.
@ChainsawPlankto
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moep
Hedion University Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:17:34 -
[10] - Quote
Verstal wrote:[quote=Omar Alharazaad]They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games.
Not this topic again
Character Bazaar => This way please
There are so many tools in EVE: Plex, multiple char training, facelifting, character swap.
If you like you can have a 150m SP char. All for free. You just need talent.
And your friends got money and talent. Where is the problem?
And please, you really get used to stupid names given by the originator and can parallel have your inkydinky personalized char if you like.
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
267
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:19:26 -
[11] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I am not new 8 years in same corp.
A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.
People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
I personally love the game the way it is but its very hard to find people to join me in playing it for more then a month.
EVE has never been "just another casual game". It's more like a hobby and requires, at least, some commitment. The truth is that all more or less popular MMO games do, but a lot of people deceive themselves by saying: "I can stop playing whenever I want" - and still spend much more time than they should in the game regardless. EVE is honest about itself, at least.
The problem with your suggestion is that EVE is a competitive sandbox with a player-driven economy. You don't seem very happy about how the skill training system works, but I see it as optimal, being one of the important equalizers in the game. You see, even though the veterans have a huge head start now, the current system saves us of power levelling of new characters by big alliances, which would, naturally, have much more resources to do that. If we had to grind EXP like in other games, new players would be forced to join powerful blobs not even to have an edge over their peers, but simply to stay competitive. Not fun and not good for the balance of power.
Going F2P in a player-driven economy is pure madness. Dozens of mining alts. Dozens of ganking alts. Ratting alts. Alts, alts everywhere. The monthly bill is the only thing Okay, great, let's limit all players to one character, then! Sure, but will it work? The more tech-savvy players will find a way to bypass the ban - they always do - and everyone will have to follow suit. What do you think of the prospect of having to have a bunch of virtual machines, a list of proxy servers, and a basic course in programming to be able to join a decent corp? Not fun at all. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:19:57 -
[12] - Quote
Verstal wrote:They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people.
> right now
EVE has been in this "odd place" since it was in beta, as far as I know. this statement you made is obviously false and is invalid.
Verstal wrote:They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve.
did you just seriously compare EVE to League of Legends and then contradict yourself?! if you know that EVE is not like LOL, then why did you even think about comparing the two??
also, LOL.
Verstal wrote:These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map.
and those things are related because...?
Verstal wrote:They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games.
and whether or not they choose to spend the money and subscribe is entirely their choice and you don't get to make that decision for them.
I would kindly ask that this thread be locked for being obsolete.
I am a cat.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
803
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:24:47 -
[13] - Quote
Verstal wrote:they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
Your post kinda denies this.
Welcome back tho
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:25:50 -
[14] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm trying to imagine what would happen to the community.... so many ways it could go. Would be cool to see a ton of people in space though.
Me too 100k people logged in 3000 person fleets beating the hell out of each other all over the map everyday instead of 1 time in 12 years, you know the dream 23.5 / 7.
The game would have to be simplified to the point where most of old vets would hate it but it might be more fun as well and we might actually like it.
I have had a few days to think about this based on the feedback from my gaming group as they love to talk about this on vent and I know this would be a radical departure from the game it is today, but they would be willing to buy ships and skins for real money if they could keep them.
So I have been trying to think of a system that relates to Eve that would provide that to the customers.
They had a bunch of what if's --- that I fear to make public because the flaming would burn so bright. :-) They are all ideas so against the core of Eve online and why we play it but they are ideas that would make them play it so I listen.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
51846
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:28:19 -
[15] - Quote
I think you should encourage them to log in, form a fleet and go do a different career path as a fleet each time.
For example:
Mining Ops - Everyone searches nearby Asteroid Belts and Ore Anomalies in system to bookmark and mine a specific Ore such as Golden Omber, then do Fleet Mining with Hauling back to station until Ore is depleted, then Reprocess the Ore and stockpile the Minerals.
Mission Ops - Everyone picks a different Corp in same system, pulls one mission offer from an Agent which the fleet completes, loots, salvages and stockpiles everything in station with the Minerals.
Exploration Ops - Fleet runs a few different types of sites, such as Hacking, Combat, DED, etc. Gathers up all loot and salvage at each site to add with stockpile in station.
Market Ops - Research various Regional Markets to find highest Quick Sell ISK value for the Ore, Mineral, Loot and Salvage stockpiled in station, transport items to those areas, sell and divide ISK between Fleet members.
PvP Ops - Fleet up with cheap combat fits and go do a low sec roam, jump on first player ship encountered. Continue until Fleet get's a kill.
Just a few ideas, all of which can be done with brand new characters. The Mining, Mission, Exploration and Market Ops will help fund the PvP Ops, plus it gives you a quick tour of just a few of the different paths available in this game. The main thing is to log in and do stuff together.
Good luck and above all else, have fun.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25941
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:32:13 -
[16] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link. Yes. They said it couldn't happen because the game doesn't really support it.
Nor does CCP's finances.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:35:07 -
[17] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:Verstal wrote:They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people. > right now EVE has been in this "odd place" since it was in beta, as far as I know. this statement you made is obviously false and is invalid. Verstal wrote:They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve. did you just seriously compare EVE to League of Legends and then contradict yourself?! if you know that EVE is not like LOL, then why did you even think about comparing the two?? also, LOL. Verstal wrote:These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map. and those things are related because...? Verstal wrote:They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games. and whether or not they choose to spend the money and subscribe is entirely their choice and you don't get to make that decision for them. I would kindly ask that this thread be locked for being obsolete.
Do you understand that I am talking about players that play mostly Heartstone, Wow, League and DOTA2 and they are high elo in all these games, high meaning top 5% of all players in the USA or EU? And that have spent 1000's of dollars on two or three of these games. People that go to gaming bars to watch people play during big events.
I would kindly ask that discussion continue. I would like to see some of this money going to CCP.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:37:26 -
[18] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I think you should encourage them to log in, form a fleet and go do a different career path as a fleet each time.
For example:
Mining Ops - Everyone searches nearby Asteroid Belts and Ore Anomalies in system to bookmark and mine a specific Ore such as Golden Omber, then do Fleet Mining with Hauling back to station until Ore is depleted, then Reprocess the Ore and stockpile the Minerals.
Mission Ops - Everyone picks a different Corp in same system, pulls one mission offer from an Agent which the fleet completes, loots, salvages and stockpiles everything in station with the Minerals.
Exploration Ops - Fleet runs a few different types of sites, such as Hacking, Combat, DED, etc. Gathers up all loot and salvage at each site to add with stockpile in station.
Market Ops - Research various Regional Markets to find highest Quick Sell ISK value for the Ore, Mineral, Loot and Salvage stockpiled in station, transport items to those areas, sell and divide ISK between Fleet members.
PvP Ops - Fleet up with cheap combat fits and go do a low sec roam, jump on first player ship encountered. Continue until Fleet get's a kill.
Just a few ideas, all of which can be done with brand new characters. The Mining, Mission, Exploration and Market Ops will help fund the PvP Ops, plus it gives you a quick tour of just a few of the different paths available in this game. The main thing is to log in and do stuff together.
Good luck and above all else, have fun.
DMC
Hey I am from N. Cal I will sign your list good points as well, and I have tried. |
Beta Maoye
74
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:38:14 -
[19] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
Free to play is not the solution. If CCP can make every battle between alliances as interesting as the yearly alliance tournament, they will be able to gain more accounts than they will lose. Players can be sure that they will have interesting fights if they spend time to accumulate skill points while learning how to fight the PVP combat mechanic and making isk by playing PVE activities. Individual player skills will be more valuable in a battle. Tournament-style battle will also solve or mitigate many problems of the Damnation sov and Aegis sov such as structure grinding, time dilation, power projection, trollceptors, jump fatigue. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13812
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:38:28 -
[20] - Quote
EVE is not the game for them.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
152
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:40:22 -
[21] - Quote
If you want Eve free to play for new players then you need to offer an alternative source of revenue for CCP. For the development teams - this is their job. They expect to get paid.
For experienced players, you can already use in game currency to pay your subscription. I don't bother - the cost per day for my subscriptions is less then a cup of coffee.
If Eve is the right game for you, I don't think the price will be a deterrent. If it isn't - free won't help. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Do Little wrote:If you want Eve free to play for new players then you need to offer an alternative source of revenue for CCP. For the development teams - this is their job. They expect to get paid.
For experienced players, you can already use in game currency to pay your subscription. I don't bother - the cost per day for my subscriptions is less then a cup of coffee.
If Eve is the right game for you, I don't think the price will be a deterrent. If it isn't - free won't help.
I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers.
But a small clue if you watch this years CCP's CEO keynote from Fanfest he seemed to be more excited about VR headsets then Eve as a future for CCP which seemed a little odd to me, because VR hasn't taken off in any main stream sense in this country. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
898
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:03:42 -
[23] - Quote
There have been a few topics lately about what it's like to be a new player, so I made a trial account recently and messed around on it for the free month. I ended up making about 3bil ISK over the course of the month, killing a few people, stealing some stuff from others in hisec and going suspect, and generally having a fun time and exploring some lower level content I hadn't really done before, in addition to checking out the opportunities system. By the end of the month I was in a Gila with ok skills, and had enough liquid ISK to PLEX my account for 2 months.
It would probably take about 2 months to become well skilled at a cruiser. And cruisers are the best class of ship in the game IMHO. Or a lot of fun could be had as a newb by training into an Astero real quick and preying on other data/relic runners in low/null/wh. Certainly no reason to afk in station, training for the first month. Dunno why your friends thought they should do that. Or why you didn't set them straight. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1367
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:04:16 -
[24] - Quote
The point is not the money and not the skill queue ... those "elite gamers" just don't want to start again as a newb and fight their way up against other players as every EvE player did and has to do, regardless of income and time spent in the game. They think they deserve a shortcut to the "top" because of their "expierience". EvE would maybe reveal how of a bad gamer they are in a real player-driven competetive environment without arranged fights ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13813
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:11:19 -
[25] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers. I don't. I want CCP to have a quality product that attracts players that want a quality game to stick around with for a good long while. A game that keeps CCP employees employed for many years to come. F2P's just produce garbage that players hop from one game to another due to the poor quality of them all. F2P games are all made for the few fat whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each, not for the general player-base. So, the game just isn't for everyone, and CCP recognizes that.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:19:11 -
[26] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:There have been a few topics lately about what it's like to be a new player, so I made a trial account recently and messed around on it for the free month. I ended up making about 3bil ISK over the course of the month, killing a few people, stealing some stuff from others in hisec and going suspect, and generally having a fun time and exploring some lower level content I hadn't really done before, in addition to checking out the opportunities system. By the end of the month I was in a Gila with ok skills, and had enough liquid ISK to PLEX my account for 2 months.
It would probably take about 2 months to become well skilled at a cruiser. And cruisers are the best class of ship in the game IMHO. Or a lot of fun could be had as a newb by training into an Astero real quick and preying on other data/relic runners in low/null/wh. Certainly no reason to afk in station, training for the first month. Dunno why your friends thought they should do that. Or why you didn't set them straight.
I have done this recently as well so I can be matched with them as far as characters and go through the experience so I have a fresh understanding of it so I can help them.
They just dont have the time to do that much dont have it. They all have very large RL commitments fathers, mothers, etc and have about 2 hours at night at most to play something, so they can play maybe 4 HS games 2 LoL or DOTA2 games, or jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are before coming back 2 days later to try to learn where all the buttons are.
As someone returning I found all of it all very easy to do, because once you understand the Eve content pattern its easy to get back on that bus and ride it.
Most suggest lowering the barrier of entry so they can keep excited about the idea of playing Eve and try to explain to them that the changes they want would be a different game and instead of adopting to Eve they go looking for a space game the way they want it. Most came from WoW at some point and never want to sub to another game again. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1556
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:41:08 -
[27] - Quote
Verstal wrote: People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
Maybe you should abandon the idea that your friends are "good gamers" if this is a requirement for them or if they only play games that hands everything to them for free.
It is quite possible to make a name for yourself in EVE as a new player and outplay the older ones. But it needs some of your own ideas and some research, there is no power-leveling guide to EVE.
If they are so narrow-minded that they don't see the potential in this game then that is their loss. We don't need a bunch of kids from WOW here in my opinion.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:43:57 -
[28] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Verstal wrote:I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers. I don't. I want CCP to have a quality product that attracts players that want a quality game to stick around with for a good long while. A game that keeps CCP employees employed for many years to come. F2P's just produce garbage that players hop from one game to another due to the poor quality of them all. F2P games are all made for the few fat whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each, not for the general player-base. So, the game just isn't for everyone, and CCP recognizes that.
Most people I know that have been playing this game for anytime play for free, and have trillions of isk to buy anything they want in the game, and those people are happy with anything CCP does because any new content or change is something that reinforces their prior commitment to the game and continued dominance over New Eden. They are so bored they are willing to accept everything and anything as long as it keeps them feeling they won Eve.
CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25941
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:45:53 -
[29] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will. Funnily enough, CCP makes more money off the people who play Gǣfor freeGǥ than from those that subscribeGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2536
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:52:16 -
[30] - Quote
That's only the people that you know, however. Granted there are many others, but there are also many many people who pay for their subscriptions with real money. Likewise, anyone who is doing the PLEX thing with ISK is relying on someone else who paid real money for those PLEX to be put in the market. Someone has to pay, no matter what.
People like myself don't play to make ISK, we play for fun. Like your friends we're grownups who are being forced by the world to be adults whether we like it or not most of the time. Limited play time is a thing many of us have to deal with. It's just a matter of trying to make the most out of what time you have.
Your friends aren't going to enjoy EVE unless they make an effort during their playtimes to make connections with other people, get their sea legs, go out and derp around and generally learn stuff. If they get into the mindset that they have to wait around til X point until they can do things then they've already lost.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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