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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
2
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:32:47 -
[1] - Quote
Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
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Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36605
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 06:36:14 -
[2] - Quote
I'd have overlooked this thread if you suggested a discount for the first few months, or given a like... but free to play...?
you must be new here.
I am a cat.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2536
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:43:43 -
[3] - Quote
Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:44:59 -
[4] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:I'd have overlooked this thread if you suggested a discount for the first few months, or given a like... but free to play...?
you must be new here.
I am not new 8 years in same corp.
A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.
People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
I personally love the game the way it is but its very hard to find people to join me in playing it for more then a month. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
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Posted - 2015.09.06 06:54:43 -
[5] - Quote
your ignorance makes me cringe.
I am a cat.
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Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2366
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 06:56:12 -
[6] - Quote
Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:00:53 -
[7] - Quote
[quote=Omar Alharazaad]Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered. [/q
They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people.
They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve.
These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map.
They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:08:54 -
[8] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? considering all options of isk income, you are in fact doing it right.
I am a cat.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1602
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:11:33 -
[9] - Quote
I'm trying to imagine what would happen to the community.... so many ways it could go. Would be cool to see a ton of people in space though.
@ChainsawPlankto
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moep
Hedion University Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:17:34 -
[10] - Quote
Verstal wrote:[quote=Omar Alharazaad]They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games.
Not this topic again
Character Bazaar => This way please
There are so many tools in EVE: Plex, multiple char training, facelifting, character swap.
If you like you can have a 150m SP char. All for free. You just need talent.
And your friends got money and talent. Where is the problem?
And please, you really get used to stupid names given by the originator and can parallel have your inkydinky personalized char if you like.
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
267
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:19:26 -
[11] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I am not new 8 years in same corp.
A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.
People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
I personally love the game the way it is but its very hard to find people to join me in playing it for more then a month.
EVE has never been "just another casual game". It's more like a hobby and requires, at least, some commitment. The truth is that all more or less popular MMO games do, but a lot of people deceive themselves by saying: "I can stop playing whenever I want" - and still spend much more time than they should in the game regardless. EVE is honest about itself, at least.
The problem with your suggestion is that EVE is a competitive sandbox with a player-driven economy. You don't seem very happy about how the skill training system works, but I see it as optimal, being one of the important equalizers in the game. You see, even though the veterans have a huge head start now, the current system saves us of power levelling of new characters by big alliances, which would, naturally, have much more resources to do that. If we had to grind EXP like in other games, new players would be forced to join powerful blobs not even to have an edge over their peers, but simply to stay competitive. Not fun and not good for the balance of power.
Going F2P in a player-driven economy is pure madness. Dozens of mining alts. Dozens of ganking alts. Ratting alts. Alts, alts everywhere. The monthly bill is the only thing Okay, great, let's limit all players to one character, then! Sure, but will it work? The more tech-savvy players will find a way to bypass the ban - they always do - and everyone will have to follow suit. What do you think of the prospect of having to have a bunch of virtual machines, a list of proxy servers, and a basic course in programming to be able to join a decent corp? Not fun at all. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36606
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:19:57 -
[12] - Quote
Verstal wrote:They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people.
> right now
EVE has been in this "odd place" since it was in beta, as far as I know. this statement you made is obviously false and is invalid.
Verstal wrote:They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve.
did you just seriously compare EVE to League of Legends and then contradict yourself?! if you know that EVE is not like LOL, then why did you even think about comparing the two??
also, LOL.
Verstal wrote:These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map.
and those things are related because...?
Verstal wrote:They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games.
and whether or not they choose to spend the money and subscribe is entirely their choice and you don't get to make that decision for them.
I would kindly ask that this thread be locked for being obsolete.
I am a cat.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
803
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:24:47 -
[13] - Quote
Verstal wrote:they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
Your post kinda denies this.
Welcome back tho
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 07:25:50 -
[14] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm trying to imagine what would happen to the community.... so many ways it could go. Would be cool to see a ton of people in space though.
Me too 100k people logged in 3000 person fleets beating the hell out of each other all over the map everyday instead of 1 time in 12 years, you know the dream 23.5 / 7.
The game would have to be simplified to the point where most of old vets would hate it but it might be more fun as well and we might actually like it.
I have had a few days to think about this based on the feedback from my gaming group as they love to talk about this on vent and I know this would be a radical departure from the game it is today, but they would be willing to buy ships and skins for real money if they could keep them.
So I have been trying to think of a system that relates to Eve that would provide that to the customers.
They had a bunch of what if's --- that I fear to make public because the flaming would burn so bright. :-) They are all ideas so against the core of Eve online and why we play it but they are ideas that would make them play it so I listen.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
51846
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:28:19 -
[15] - Quote
I think you should encourage them to log in, form a fleet and go do a different career path as a fleet each time.
For example:
Mining Ops - Everyone searches nearby Asteroid Belts and Ore Anomalies in system to bookmark and mine a specific Ore such as Golden Omber, then do Fleet Mining with Hauling back to station until Ore is depleted, then Reprocess the Ore and stockpile the Minerals.
Mission Ops - Everyone picks a different Corp in same system, pulls one mission offer from an Agent which the fleet completes, loots, salvages and stockpiles everything in station with the Minerals.
Exploration Ops - Fleet runs a few different types of sites, such as Hacking, Combat, DED, etc. Gathers up all loot and salvage at each site to add with stockpile in station.
Market Ops - Research various Regional Markets to find highest Quick Sell ISK value for the Ore, Mineral, Loot and Salvage stockpiled in station, transport items to those areas, sell and divide ISK between Fleet members.
PvP Ops - Fleet up with cheap combat fits and go do a low sec roam, jump on first player ship encountered. Continue until Fleet get's a kill.
Just a few ideas, all of which can be done with brand new characters. The Mining, Mission, Exploration and Market Ops will help fund the PvP Ops, plus it gives you a quick tour of just a few of the different paths available in this game. The main thing is to log in and do stuff together.
Good luck and above all else, have fun.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25941
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:32:13 -
[16] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link. Yes. They said it couldn't happen because the game doesn't really support it.
Nor does CCP's finances.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:35:07 -
[17] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:Verstal wrote:They all leave that is the point of the question. Eve is in a odd place right now you have to wait for training, grind isk, spend real world money on something that you can actually lose, it is confusing for a lot of people. > right now EVE has been in this "odd place" since it was in beta, as far as I know. this statement you made is obviously false and is invalid. Verstal wrote:They see the deck stacked against them and go drop 60 dollars on cards for HS or LoL skins. Because they feel they own that content and they have a fair fight. We know this isnt the case with Eve. did you just seriously compare EVE to League of Legends and then contradict yourself?! if you know that EVE is not like LOL, then why did you even think about comparing the two?? also, LOL. Verstal wrote:These are people have no clue about Eve history - Russian macro droners, macro farmers, moon mining or any of the best ways to play eve for free. I remember the days when BoB used the tower exploit for 7 years before it was fixed to control the entire south of the map. and those things are related because...? Verstal wrote:They are just new players that are excited about spending money on a game they have never experienced before see the videos and want to try it. You know main stream people that have money, and talent for playing games. and whether or not they choose to spend the money and subscribe is entirely their choice and you don't get to make that decision for them. I would kindly ask that this thread be locked for being obsolete.
Do you understand that I am talking about players that play mostly Heartstone, Wow, League and DOTA2 and they are high elo in all these games, high meaning top 5% of all players in the USA or EU? And that have spent 1000's of dollars on two or three of these games. People that go to gaming bars to watch people play during big events.
I would kindly ask that discussion continue. I would like to see some of this money going to CCP.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:37:26 -
[18] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I think you should encourage them to log in, form a fleet and go do a different career path as a fleet each time.
For example:
Mining Ops - Everyone searches nearby Asteroid Belts and Ore Anomalies in system to bookmark and mine a specific Ore such as Golden Omber, then do Fleet Mining with Hauling back to station until Ore is depleted, then Reprocess the Ore and stockpile the Minerals.
Mission Ops - Everyone picks a different Corp in same system, pulls one mission offer from an Agent which the fleet completes, loots, salvages and stockpiles everything in station with the Minerals.
Exploration Ops - Fleet runs a few different types of sites, such as Hacking, Combat, DED, etc. Gathers up all loot and salvage at each site to add with stockpile in station.
Market Ops - Research various Regional Markets to find highest Quick Sell ISK value for the Ore, Mineral, Loot and Salvage stockpiled in station, transport items to those areas, sell and divide ISK between Fleet members.
PvP Ops - Fleet up with cheap combat fits and go do a low sec roam, jump on first player ship encountered. Continue until Fleet get's a kill.
Just a few ideas, all of which can be done with brand new characters. The Mining, Mission, Exploration and Market Ops will help fund the PvP Ops, plus it gives you a quick tour of just a few of the different paths available in this game. The main thing is to log in and do stuff together.
Good luck and above all else, have fun.
DMC
Hey I am from N. Cal I will sign your list good points as well, and I have tried. |
Beta Maoye
74
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:38:14 -
[19] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
Free to play is not the solution. If CCP can make every battle between alliances as interesting as the yearly alliance tournament, they will be able to gain more accounts than they will lose. Players can be sure that they will have interesting fights if they spend time to accumulate skill points while learning how to fight the PVP combat mechanic and making isk by playing PVE activities. Individual player skills will be more valuable in a battle. Tournament-style battle will also solve or mitigate many problems of the Damnation sov and Aegis sov such as structure grinding, time dilation, power projection, trollceptors, jump fatigue. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13812
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:38:28 -
[20] - Quote
EVE is not the game for them.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
152
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:40:22 -
[21] - Quote
If you want Eve free to play for new players then you need to offer an alternative source of revenue for CCP. For the development teams - this is their job. They expect to get paid.
For experienced players, you can already use in game currency to pay your subscription. I don't bother - the cost per day for my subscriptions is less then a cup of coffee.
If Eve is the right game for you, I don't think the price will be a deterrent. If it isn't - free won't help. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 07:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Do Little wrote:If you want Eve free to play for new players then you need to offer an alternative source of revenue for CCP. For the development teams - this is their job. They expect to get paid.
For experienced players, you can already use in game currency to pay your subscription. I don't bother - the cost per day for my subscriptions is less then a cup of coffee.
If Eve is the right game for you, I don't think the price will be a deterrent. If it isn't - free won't help.
I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers.
But a small clue if you watch this years CCP's CEO keynote from Fanfest he seemed to be more excited about VR headsets then Eve as a future for CCP which seemed a little odd to me, because VR hasn't taken off in any main stream sense in this country. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
898
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:03:42 -
[23] - Quote
There have been a few topics lately about what it's like to be a new player, so I made a trial account recently and messed around on it for the free month. I ended up making about 3bil ISK over the course of the month, killing a few people, stealing some stuff from others in hisec and going suspect, and generally having a fun time and exploring some lower level content I hadn't really done before, in addition to checking out the opportunities system. By the end of the month I was in a Gila with ok skills, and had enough liquid ISK to PLEX my account for 2 months.
It would probably take about 2 months to become well skilled at a cruiser. And cruisers are the best class of ship in the game IMHO. Or a lot of fun could be had as a newb by training into an Astero real quick and preying on other data/relic runners in low/null/wh. Certainly no reason to afk in station, training for the first month. Dunno why your friends thought they should do that. Or why you didn't set them straight. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1367
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:04:16 -
[24] - Quote
The point is not the money and not the skill queue ... those "elite gamers" just don't want to start again as a newb and fight their way up against other players as every EvE player did and has to do, regardless of income and time spent in the game. They think they deserve a shortcut to the "top" because of their "expierience". EvE would maybe reveal how of a bad gamer they are in a real player-driven competetive environment without arranged fights ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13813
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:11:19 -
[25] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers. I don't. I want CCP to have a quality product that attracts players that want a quality game to stick around with for a good long while. A game that keeps CCP employees employed for many years to come. F2P's just produce garbage that players hop from one game to another due to the poor quality of them all. F2P games are all made for the few fat whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each, not for the general player-base. So, the game just isn't for everyone, and CCP recognizes that.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:19:11 -
[26] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:There have been a few topics lately about what it's like to be a new player, so I made a trial account recently and messed around on it for the free month. I ended up making about 3bil ISK over the course of the month, killing a few people, stealing some stuff from others in hisec and going suspect, and generally having a fun time and exploring some lower level content I hadn't really done before, in addition to checking out the opportunities system. By the end of the month I was in a Gila with ok skills, and had enough liquid ISK to PLEX my account for 2 months.
It would probably take about 2 months to become well skilled at a cruiser. And cruisers are the best class of ship in the game IMHO. Or a lot of fun could be had as a newb by training into an Astero real quick and preying on other data/relic runners in low/null/wh. Certainly no reason to afk in station, training for the first month. Dunno why your friends thought they should do that. Or why you didn't set them straight.
I have done this recently as well so I can be matched with them as far as characters and go through the experience so I have a fresh understanding of it so I can help them.
They just dont have the time to do that much dont have it. They all have very large RL commitments fathers, mothers, etc and have about 2 hours at night at most to play something, so they can play maybe 4 HS games 2 LoL or DOTA2 games, or jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are before coming back 2 days later to try to learn where all the buttons are.
As someone returning I found all of it all very easy to do, because once you understand the Eve content pattern its easy to get back on that bus and ride it.
Most suggest lowering the barrier of entry so they can keep excited about the idea of playing Eve and try to explain to them that the changes they want would be a different game and instead of adopting to Eve they go looking for a space game the way they want it. Most came from WoW at some point and never want to sub to another game again. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1556
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:41:08 -
[27] - Quote
Verstal wrote: People want and need to feel that they have 50/50 chance of winning a fight and if they out play the person they will win.
When you are hit with the harsh reality of CCP's system most players have a hard time dealing with it throw there hands up and run away.
Maybe you should abandon the idea that your friends are "good gamers" if this is a requirement for them or if they only play games that hands everything to them for free.
It is quite possible to make a name for yourself in EVE as a new player and outplay the older ones. But it needs some of your own ideas and some research, there is no power-leveling guide to EVE.
If they are so narrow-minded that they don't see the potential in this game then that is their loss. We don't need a bunch of kids from WOW here in my opinion.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:43:57 -
[28] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Verstal wrote:I agree 100% i want CCP to make more money, and have more customers. I don't. I want CCP to have a quality product that attracts players that want a quality game to stick around with for a good long while. A game that keeps CCP employees employed for many years to come. F2P's just produce garbage that players hop from one game to another due to the poor quality of them all. F2P games are all made for the few fat whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each, not for the general player-base. So, the game just isn't for everyone, and CCP recognizes that.
Most people I know that have been playing this game for anytime play for free, and have trillions of isk to buy anything they want in the game, and those people are happy with anything CCP does because any new content or change is something that reinforces their prior commitment to the game and continued dominance over New Eden. They are so bored they are willing to accept everything and anything as long as it keeps them feeling they won Eve.
CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25941
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:45:53 -
[29] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will. Funnily enough, CCP makes more money off the people who play Gǣfor freeGǥ than from those that subscribeGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2536
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:52:16 -
[30] - Quote
That's only the people that you know, however. Granted there are many others, but there are also many many people who pay for their subscriptions with real money. Likewise, anyone who is doing the PLEX thing with ISK is relying on someone else who paid real money for those PLEX to be put in the market. Someone has to pay, no matter what.
People like myself don't play to make ISK, we play for fun. Like your friends we're grownups who are being forced by the world to be adults whether we like it or not most of the time. Limited play time is a thing many of us have to deal with. It's just a matter of trying to make the most out of what time you have.
Your friends aren't going to enjoy EVE unless they make an effort during their playtimes to make connections with other people, get their sea legs, go out and derp around and generally learn stuff. If they get into the mindset that they have to wait around til X point until they can do things then they've already lost.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13813
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Posted - 2015.09.06 08:57:56 -
[31] - Quote
Verstal wrote:They just dont have the time to do that much dont have it. They all have very large RL commitments fathers, mothers, etc and have about 2 hours at night at most to play something, so they can play maybe 4 HS games 2 LoL or DOTA2 games, or jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are before coming back 2 days later to try to learn where all the buttons are. All those f2p's, when you play for free and not spend a dime, or very little, you take the long way around. You spend way more time trying to keep up with someone that pays a lot. That's how they make their money, and there is always someone willing to spend a lot of money that you just can't keep up with. Some of them are outright scams in fact, using tricks to cheat players.
So that makes no sense. They have limited time but play games that stick them at the slowest pace, to torture them into spending money. Big reason I stay away from those games. And even if I spend money, I'll always get stuck with other players in my group that didn't pay a dime, so I suffer because of them, or I need to spend even more money to pick up the slack for them.
If EVE ever went f2p, I'd be outa here, no joke, and so would many/most here. They may pick up 100000 f2p instant players, but will spend little to nothing and then leave in months for some other f2p game that catches their eye. So if your friends demand free (do you even know them irl?) and just won't undock and try EVE for real, don't worry about it, it's just not a game for them.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 08:58:37 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will. Funnily enough, CCP makes more money off the people who play Gǣfor freeGǥ than from those that subscribeGǪ
That's funny I haven't given them any money in 6 or 7 years. Not a dime, and nobody I know does. We get all this stuff for free and can use it to buy new stuff for free, the hardest thing for these people to do is keep interested in the game long enough for something new to appear so we can get for free, and its been like this for 10 years.
The biggest fear of veteran players is that the free content train will end. I have no fear, but I am radical.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25942
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:00:22 -
[33] - Quote
Verstal wrote:That's funny I haven't given them any money in 6 or 7 years. GǪand yet they've made more money off of you than if you had.
Quote:I have no fear, but I am radical. No, just ignorant of how the system works.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:05:54 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:That's funny I haven't given them any money in 6 or 7 years. GǪand yet they've made more money off of you than if you had. Quote:I have no fear, but I am radical. No, just ignorant of how the system works.
They sold my chat logs to the FBI? If i dont give them money how are they making money off me.
You could say that because I play the game and have influence over others that might pay to play the game that I am helping CCP making money. Is that what you are saying? If not please enlighten me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25942
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:08:32 -
[35] - Quote
Verstal wrote:If i dont give them money how are they making money off me. Through your reliance on the most expensive method, by far, to maintain your subscription.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13813
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:13:32 -
[36] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will. They do, and quite a bit of money. PLEX isn't just game time, it's a service, you can use them on things other than game time. Every one of those PLEX are paid for by someone, so it's not really f2p of any sort, no one plays for "free". PLEX even costs more than a regular subscription, CCP makes more money off of them than they do me with my sub... when I'm not buying AUR for MCT's, space barbie clothes, sculpts or skins, anyway
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:19:26 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:If i dont give them money how are they making money off me. Through your reliance on the most expensive method, by far, to maintain your subscription.
But if your definition of wining Eve is to play for free, able to buy anything you want and being entertained while do it then you are getting the entertainment for free, fun for free, and the game for free.
You have made 28k posts on the forums so I assume you are from CCP?
You must have had internal discussions about Free to Play models and the direction the content is going seems to be bridge in that direction with vanity ship skins, and other vanity items.
What can we do to help CCP survive this transition?
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13813
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:23:11 -
[38] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:That's funny I haven't given them any money in 6 or 7 years. GǪand yet they've made more money off of you than if you had. Quote:I have no fear, but I am radical. No, just ignorant of how the system works. They sold my chat logs to the FBI? If i dont give them money how are they making money off me. You could say that because I play the game and have influence over others that might pay to play the game that I am helping CCP make money. Is that what you are saying? If not please enlighten me. What is money? You provide labor and receive a form of currency in exchange, well in the form of a token in this case really. So when you turn in your PLEX after grinding endlessly every month, you are just turning in a token that was already paid for with legal tender by someone else. Products, services, time, money to an exchange. Yes, I'm sure my capitalism is just bleeding through hah.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25942
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:24:51 -
[39] - Quote
Verstal wrote:But if your definition of wining Eve is to play for free But nothing. They're still making money off of you.
Quote:You must have had internal discussions about Free to Play models and the direction the content is going seems to be bridge in that direction with vanity ship skins, and other vanity items. They have. It was dismissed as the last measure right before the game is shut down since the game doesn't support it.
Quote:What can we do to help CCP survive this transition? Mass-quit so they game is on the brink of being shut down and scamming a last wad of cash out of some fools is the last thing left to do. It might help CCP survive, but it obviously won't help EVE since it's being shut down.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36619
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:48:21 -
[40] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Do you understand that I am talking about players that play mostly Heartstone, Wow, League and DOTA2 and they are high elo in all these games, high meaning top 5% of all players in the USA or EU? And that have spent 1000's of dollars on two or three of these games. People that go to gaming bars to watch people play during big events. Do you understand that what you say is completely irrelevant and stupid?
seriously now, ISD - please lock this thread, it is obsolete and brings no valuable discussion.
I am a cat.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1008
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:09:43 -
[41] - Quote
I have long thought the trial should be unlimited duration f2p, it is plenty restrictive. But once you upgrade to a sub, that's it. No more f2p on that account.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
|
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
291
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:13:34 -
[42] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
Goons already won Eve. so there's no win to pay for |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13814
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:33:40 -
[43] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:I have long thought the trial should be unlimited duration f2p, it is plenty restrictive. But once you upgrade to a sub, that's it. No more f2p on that account. Multiboxers online. I could run a bunch of clients from my computers, and so would everyone else. And before you say IP restrictions, no thats simple to get around. EVE would just suck, and for what? CCP would need to shuffle people around just to manage tech support which will suffer greatly. Just so some bored f2p kids can cause trouble? Nnnnnope. A month is plenty, and if it's not they can try again.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36620
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:39:50 -
[44] - Quote
Webvan wrote:CCP would need to shuffle people around just to manage tech support which will suffer greatly. EVE's customer support already suffers greatly. mostly due to some GMs not doing their job properly.
I am a cat.
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13814
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:59:44 -
[45] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:Webvan wrote:CCP would need to shuffle people around just to manage tech support which will suffer greatly. EVE's customer support already suffers greatly. mostly due to some GMs not doing their job properly. Maybe so, but think of it x10. I had a sub to a game that went f2p. Before, it was about a 20m wait. After, it became 2hrs+ CCP cant drop support to potential players that might one day maybe start a sub, so there goes staffing into support rather than on othert hings like development funding.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:04:46 -
[46] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm trying to imagine what would happen to the community.... so many ways it could go. Would be cool to see a ton of people in space though.
There are quite a few that will only play F2P or B2P. a lot of the F2P crowd will likely be kids. Although as the game is I doubt many of those will stay anyway. |
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36624
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:12:45 -
[47] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Liafcipe9000 wrote:Webvan wrote:CCP would need to shuffle people around just to manage tech support which will suffer greatly. EVE's customer support already suffers greatly. mostly due to some GMs not doing their job properly. Maybe so, but think of it x10. I had a sub to a game that went f2p. Before, it was about a 20m wait. After, it became 2hrs+ CCP cant drop support to potential players that might one day maybe start a sub, so there goes staffing into support rather than on othert hings like development funding. good point.
I am a cat.
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
92
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:34:59 -
[48] - Quote
Name one F2P game that isn't completely moronic due to p2W and/or an influx of hilarious shitclowns and full of 12 yearolds. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:39:43 -
[49] - Quote
I don't think you should cater for free to play players anyway.
If I play a F2P game, it's because of the game not because it F2P. Same goes for B2P games.
Why do people ask for games to be F2P, because they don't want to spend any money on it, which means they're unlikely to spend anything in the in-game shop which F2P games rely on.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1008
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:40:11 -
[50] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Val'Dore wrote:I have long thought the trial should be unlimited duration f2p, it is plenty restrictive. But once you upgrade to a sub, that's it. No more f2p on that account. Multiboxers online. I could run a bunch of clients from my computers, and so would everyone else. And before you say IP restrictions, no thats simple to get around. EVE would just suck, and for what? CCP would need to shuffle people around just to manage tech support which will suffer greatly. Just so some bored f2p kids can cause trouble? Nnnnnope. A month is plenty, and if it's not they can try again.
The people who will multibox already multibox.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
|
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WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
93
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:46:13 -
[51] - Quote
usually free to play means more expensive to play because you end up.paying for lots of items. tbh no one will be playing soon anyway |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25952
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:59:32 -
[52] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:The people who will multibox already multibox. I would multibox if I didn't have to pay to keep the extra accounts active.
Tiberius Heth wrote:Name one F2P game that isn't completely moronic due to p2W and/or an influx of hilarious shitclowns and full of 12 yearolds. WeellGǪ There's Cookie Clicker GÇö it's completely moronic due to radically different reasons.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2366
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 12:08:20 -
[53] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? considering all options of isk income, you are in fact doing it right.
Oh I was refering to the narrow mindedness of the idea. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2366
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 12:14:08 -
[54] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will.
It's amazing how often people seem to think that selling PLEX doesn't make CCP any money. A PLEX is game time. 30 days of it. For a PLEX to exist, someone has had to pay real money to CCP. A PLEX only shows up when somebody pays CCP. They don't get magically created when someone decides to dump ISK into them and buying them does not remove ISK from the game either.
-E- Actually it does remove ISK from the game but so does every market transaction. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8431
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 12:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Your friends don't sound particularly sophisticated, even if they are "great gamers". I'd suggest getting new ones.
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
|
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36639
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 13:05:09 -
[56] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Verstal wrote:CCP makes no money off these people at this point never will. It's amazing how often people seem to think that selling PLEX doesn't make CCP any money. A PLEX is game time. 30 days of it. For a PLEX to exist, someone has had to pay real money to CCP. A PLEX only shows up when somebody pays CCP. They don't get magically created when someone decides to dump ISK into them and buying them does not remove ISK from the game either. -E- Actually it does remove ISK from the game but so does every market transaction. actually, most of the ISK goes to a player while a small bit of it goes to a black hole known as broker or whatever.
I am a cat.
|
Liafcipe9000
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36639
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 13:06:44 -
[57] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Name one F2P game that isn't completely moronic due to p2W and/or an influx of hilarious shitclowns and full of 12 yearolds. Warframe.
I've so far only seen one thread on the subreddit(granted I don't browse the forums because :effort:) complaining about the lack of toxic, 12-year-old childish behaviour.
And premium currency can be obtained with effort rather than RL ISK.
I am a cat.
|
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
226
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 13:23:46 -
[58] - Quote
EVE should have a space fight simulator at NPC stations which lets player just do fights.
Effectively be a virtual battleground in a virtual space environment.
It's how these MOBA started, they were battlegrounds within other games.
And it shows what players really want, balanced PvP, in a structured environment.
Like LoL etc.
EVE could do it by having them as training simulators for pilots, plus it would let players try out different ships without losing them.
More importantly though it would let new players hop right into fighting in space without needing skills or a big pile of ISK.
And perhaps it might stop people asking for making EVE free to play, which from my experience, turns games into crap.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
92
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 13:30:35 -
[59] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:EVE should have a space fight simulator at NPC stations which lets player just do fights.
Effectively be a virtual battleground in a virtual space environment.
It's how these MOBA started, they were battlegrounds within other games.
And it shows what players really want, balanced PvP, in a structured environment.
Like LoL etc.
EVE could do it by having them as training simulators for pilots, plus it would let players try out different ships without losing them.
More importantly though it would let new players hop right into fighting in space without needing skills or a big pile of ISK.
And perhaps it might stop people asking for making EVE free to play, which from my experience, turns games into crap. No, no instancing, no fake fights, no zero cost/non-risk combat.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25000
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:05:26 -
[60] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:EVE should have a space fight simulator at NPC stations which lets player just do fights.
Effectively be a virtual battleground in a virtual space environment.
It's how these MOBA started, they were battlegrounds within other games. RvB would like a word, they've been doing essentially this for years, without having to use a separate environment.
The whole point of the sandbox is that if you want something such as you suggest, then it is up to you to make it happen, preferably without asking the devs to do it for you.
Quote:And it shows what players really want, balanced PvP, in a structured environment.
Like LoL etc.
EVE could do it by having them as training simulators for pilots, plus it would let players try out different ships without losing them. If that's what people want, why are they playing Eve? What you're suggesting is no risk, no loss PvP, something that is diametrically opposed to the whole ethos and premise of Eve.
There are numerous games that offer that type of gameplay, this is not one of them, nor should it be.
Quote:More importantly though it would let new players hop right into fighting in space without needing skills or a big pile of ISK. SP and isk aren't the primary barrier that newbies face; a few hours training gives a newbie combat effectiveness in terms of what modules they can use, the career agents hand out enough isk to fund several frigates and destroyers to destroy in the pursuit of knowledge. Their primary barrier is lack of knowledge about the game and its mechanics, that comes with experience and by learning from others, Eve is very much a social game in that respect.
Quote:And perhaps it might stop people asking for making EVE free to play, which from my experience, turns games into crap. Agreed F2P does turn games into crap, I don't think you'll find many dissenters tbh.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2541
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:08:01 -
[61] - Quote
Balanced PvP in a structured environment is pretty much anathema to EVE. Fights aren't supposed to be fair, they only end up that way either due to poor planning or purely on accident.
In truth the advantage almost always rests in the hands of those who take the initiative. The burden of survival rests on the shoulders of the defender. Constant vigilance and situational awareness enables defenders to AVOID the unwinnables more often than not. The imperceptive and the lazy suffer, as they should.
It's a cold and unforgiving place, and that's what keeps so many of us playing there. It's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to be dangerous.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:16:15 -
[62] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote: No, no instancing, no fake fights, no zero cost/non-risk combat.
It's all fake fights. Reality's an illusion.
All I'm suggesting is something that has proven popular and financially successful in other games, and the upside is that those who enjoy the simulator wouldn't probably enjoy the real EVE.
Or are you afraid they would contaminate your reality?
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:18:30 -
[63] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:EVE should have a space fight simulator at NPC stations which lets player just do fights.
Effectively be a virtual battleground in a virtual space environment.
It's how these MOBA started, they were battlegrounds within other games. RvB would like a word, they've been doing essentially this for years, without having to use a separate environment. The whole point of the sandbox is that if you want something such as you suggest, then it is up to you to make it happen, preferably without asking the devs to do it for you. Quote:And it shows what players really want, balanced PvP, in a structured environment.
Like LoL etc.
EVE could do it by having them as training simulators for pilots, plus it would let players try out different ships without losing them. If that's what people want, why are they playing Eve? What you're suggesting is no risk, no loss PvP, something that is diametrically opposed to the whole ethos and premise of Eve. There are numerous games that offer that type of gameplay, this is not one of them, nor should it be. Quote:More importantly though it would let new players hop right into fighting in space without needing skills or a big pile of ISK. SP and isk aren't the primary barrier that newbies face; a few hours training gives a newbie combat effectiveness in terms of what modules they can use, the career agents hand out enough isk to fund several frigates and destroyers to destroy in the pursuit of knowledge. Their primary barrier is lack of knowledge about the game and its mechanics, that comes with experience and by learning from others, Eve is very much a social game in that respect. Quote:And perhaps it might stop people asking for making EVE free to play, which from my experience, turns games into crap. Agreed F2P does turn games into crap, I don't think you'll find many dissenters tbh.
Red vs Blue has been popular, because?
Because people like battleground games, like LoL or chess.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
95
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:18:57 -
[64] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote: No, no instancing, no fake fights, no zero cost/non-risk combat.
It's all fake fights. Reality's an illusion.
Then you agree that there's no need for change, as it's already make belief.
It's always hilariously funny to see people frantically try and use :reasons: and "it would be better for the game and other players" when they actually mean "I want it for myself". |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:25:40 -
[65] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Balanced PvP in a structured environment is pretty much anathema to EVE. Fights aren't supposed to be fair, they only end up that way either due to poor planning or purely on accident.
In truth the advantage almost always rests in the hands of those who take the initiative. The burden of survival rests on the shoulders of the defender. Constant vigilance and situational awareness enables defenders to AVOID the unwinnables more often than not. The imperceptive and the lazy suffer, as they should.
It's a cold and unforgiving place, and that's what keeps so many of us playing there. It's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to be dangerous.
PvP is never balanced, even chess is biased towards white. Because white gets the initiative.
The aim is be unbalanced, is to build asymmetry in your favour.
The easiest way to do that, in an unrestricted battlefield, is gank fests.
Yay.
What players seem to like though is an even start. Five a side seems popular, on a variety of maps.
The even start is a skill test. How good are you at tipping the odds in your favour from equal beginnings.
In the broader context of EVE that even start isn't as easy to get, because players could have over ten years of progression, on the character opposing you, if it's a one v one. And that's another aspect altogether not without its own appeal.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25001
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:25:50 -
[66] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Red vs Blue has been popular, because?
Because people like battleground games, like LoL or chess.
I'm not denying that people like battleground style gameplay, I'm saying that CCP have chosen not to hardcode that style of gameplay, they've left that to the players to implement.
The main caveat being that people that aren't involved in the battleground/arena gameplay can, and do, interfere with it; such is the nature of Eve.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2541
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:34:08 -
[67] - Quote
Instanced 'fair fights' would result in a veritable dreckstorm of shptoasts of butthurt players screaming like manatees that just discovered the outboard motor. 'I spent a thousand hours in the simulator and crunched my numbers on EFT to the tenth point behind the decimal. There's no way I should have lost! REIMBURSE ME NAO!'
All because it just doesn't work like that in the big black.
Neutral logi, off grid boosts, drugs, batphones, log off traps and simple superior PLAYER skill make many of the things one would experience in a controlled environment null and void.
Math is not enough. Fast reflexes are not enough. Having a cast iron strategy is not enough.
The controlled environment would actually do more harm than good by fostering the illusion that this is how it is, when it is not. And this is actually the bright side of the equation... the dark side is players that would otherwise be interacting with the rest of the greater world around them would instead be spending all their time in pointless simulations that only engender false notions of how things work once they finally exit. We're talking about willful indoctrination of wrong-mindedness over time, resulting in catastrophic inability to cope when confronted with how things actually work.
To boot, all that time spent doing this crap is time that said players could have spent figuring out how things really work.
TL:DR? No. Nope. NO.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:36:01 -
[68] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Red vs Blue has been popular, because?
Because people like battleground games, like LoL or chess.
I'm not denying that people like battleground style gameplay, I'm saying that CCP have chosen not to hardcode that style of gameplay, they've left that to the players to implement. The main caveat being that people that aren't involved in the battleground/arena gameplay can, and do, interfere with it; such is the nature of Eve.
Perhaps CCP should hardcode it. RvB shows that there is some demand. The advantage being you could log in to EVE and be in a battle within minutes, instead of trying to find a fight first.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2542
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:38:40 -
[69] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Balanced PvP in a structured environment is pretty much anathema to EVE. Fights aren't supposed to be fair, they only end up that way either due to poor planning or purely on accident.
In truth the advantage almost always rests in the hands of those who take the initiative. The burden of survival rests on the shoulders of the defender. Constant vigilance and situational awareness enables defenders to AVOID the unwinnables more often than not. The imperceptive and the lazy suffer, as they should.
It's a cold and unforgiving place, and that's what keeps so many of us playing there. It's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to be dangerous. PvP is never balanced, even chess is biased towards white. Because white gets the initiative. The aim is be unbalanced, is to build asymmetry in your favour. The easiest way to do that, in an unrestricted battlefield, is gank fests. Yay. What players seem to like though is an even start. Five a side seems popular, on a variety of maps. The even start is a skill test. How good are you at tipping the odds in your favour from equal beginnings. In the broader context of EVE that even start isn't as easy to get, because players could have over ten years of progression, on the character opposing you, if it's a one v one. And that's another aspect altogether not without its own appeal.
Eh. We put new Devils in a T1 frigate. We show them some stuff. Then we send that T1 frigate after a battlecruiser and see if they were listening. If they were, they usually win. If they don't we encourage them to try again. The lesson isn't about numbers or firepower, it's about understanding how the game works. It's also a confidence boosting issue as well. Once you've jacked a battlecruiser in an incursus you open your eyes to the possibility that you can do even more, despite being new.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:41:26 -
[70] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Instanced 'fair fights' would result in a veritable dreckstorm of shptoasts of butthurt players screaming like manatees that just discovered the outboard motor. 'I spent a thousand hours in the simulator and crunched my numbers on EFT to the tenth point behind the decimal. There's no way I should have lost! REIMBURSE ME NAO!'
All because it just doesn't work like that in the big black.
Neutral logi, off grid boosts, drugs, batphones, log off traps and simple superior PLAYER skill make many of the things one would experience in a controlled environment null and void.
Math is not enough. Fast reflexes are not enough. Having a cast iron strategy is not enough.
The controlled environment would actually do more harm than good by fostering the illusion that this is how it is, when it is not. And this is actually the bright side of the equation... the dark side is players that would otherwise be interacting with the rest of the greater world around them would instead be spending all their time in pointless simulations that only engender false notions of how things work once they finally exit. We're talking about willful indoctrination of wrong-mindedness over time, resulting in catastrophic inability to cope when confronted with how things actually work.
To boot, all that time spent doing this crap is time that said players could have spent figuring out how things really work.
TL:DR? No. Nope. NO.
Hypothetical hysteria isn't an argument that persuades. Actual hysteria doesn't either.
Chaos is. I like the whole unbridled stampede. The wild dance.
However it's easier to learn bit by bit, step by step.
And tools to learning are never a bad thing.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25955
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:43:56 -
[71] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Perhaps CCP should hardcode it. RvB shows that there is some demand. RvB also shows that there's no need to hardcode it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2543
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:48:44 -
[72] - Quote
I'm all for tools for learning. The NPE is pretty lacking unfortunately. And yes, as you've stated, it is a chaotic state. The thing is that ultimately it falls upon the players themselves to provide those learning opportunities. CCP can only do so much, but with us being an unruly bunch, if they try too hard their efforts would likely backfire. As a result, we are the best teachers out there for new folks. It's really just up to us individually as to whether or not we're willing to give the new guys a hand at understanding the game.
I know many PVP players are more than happy to help educate newbros and try to give them a sense of self-empowerment.
I'm just not really in favor of creating an artificial environment that's engineered to do so, because I fear that it would backfire.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25003
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:50:07 -
[73] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Perhaps CCP should hardcode it. There's no need to, RvB already satisfy the demand for it. Hard-coding it would depreciate the value and uniqueness of RvB.
You'd also get people joining just for that aspect of the game, and then rage quitting when they realise that it's not immune from the actions of other groups of players. If people want battlegrounds that are immune from interference then they should either play on SiSi or play a game that offers such a thing; it has no place on the TQ server.
Quote:RvB shows that there is some demand. The advantage being you could log in to EVE and be in a battle within minutes, instead of trying to find a fight first. You already can, join RvB. Log in, undock, explode or be exploded, reship and repeat.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1371
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 14:55:05 -
[74] - Quote
Why do we have to go through this arena nonsense almost every week?
... if you want arranged fights, and test your ships/fits you can go to Singularity server, it's there for testing and training.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2543
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:04:16 -
[75] - Quote
I think the point Jonah has been driving at, which I happen to agree with, is that we create the content in the game while CCP simply provides us with the environment in which to do so.
The onus of teaching newbros how to survive in the sandbox lies on our collective shoulders, not CCP's. Hardcoding in an environment that exists ostensibly to teach will engender misconceptions as to how things are because of it's artificial nature. It's far better to take a more organic approach involving more experienced mentors who can take the time to show the inexperienced how things really work, including the exceptions to the rules.
Software simply cannot pull that off.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25004
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:23:29 -
[76] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I think the point Jonah has been driving at, which I happen to agree with, is that we create the content in the game while CCP simply provides us with the environment in which to do so.
The onus of teaching newbros how to survive in the sandbox lies on our collective shoulders, not CCP's. Hardcoding in an environment that exists ostensibly to teach will engender misconceptions as to how things are because of it's artificial nature. It's far better to take a more organic approach involving more experienced mentors who can take the time to show the inexperienced how things really work, including the exceptions to the rules.
Software simply cannot pull that off. Exactly the point. CCP provide us with tools, how we use and abuse them is up to us.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2185
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:30:43 -
[77] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:There have been a few topics lately about what it's like to be a new player, so I made a trial account recently and messed around on it for the free month. I ended up making about 3bil ISK over the course of the month, killing a few people, stealing some stuff from others in hisec and going suspect, and generally having a fun time and exploring some lower level content I hadn't really done before, in addition to checking out the opportunities system. By the end of the month I was in a Gila with ok skills, and had enough liquid ISK to PLEX my account for 2 months.
It would probably take about 2 months to become well skilled at a cruiser. And cruisers are the best class of ship in the game IMHO. Or a lot of fun could be had as a newb by training into an Astero real quick and preying on other data/relic runners in low/null/wh. Certainly no reason to afk in station, training for the first month. Dunno why your friends thought they should do that. Or why you didn't set them straight.
If only all newbies had 3+ years of in game knowledge when they started. Then they would be able to do just like you.
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Kharaxus
Bayer Pharmaceuticals
87
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:31:37 -
[78] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
Every time I read this I think about the migratory patterns talked about on the National Geographic channel and the consequences. |
Romvex
Just The Tip... Short Bus Syndicate
534
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 15:37:42 -
[79] - Quote
If anybody could make any number of alts for free the economy and everything else about the game would collapse overnight. What would limit you from making hundreds of mining alts, scouting alts, cyno alts, incursion alts, etc? to me this is the biggest issue aside from CCP's finances. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 16:30:45 -
[80] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Your friends don't sound particularly sophisticated, even if they are "great gamers". I'd suggest getting new ones.
- All invest spare limited time into a game over other choices of entertainment.
- All once invested spend money on that game to improve the experience but none want to pay to win model, they buy vanity items.
- All love Star Wars and Star Trek and have interest in experiencing what they see in the CCP movies.
- All once they realize the cost in time get discouraged at the steepness of the mountain.
- All start the climb.
- After the rookie missions most are expecting a taste of what they have seen in the CCP movie, do not get this taste but know they are just starting out.
- Ask what direction they need to take to experience what is in the movie.
- Most are excited download a program like Eve Mon to plan out a character career and training schedule see the time to train.
- All multiple the sub costs by the time they need to train a particular path and get upset at the thought of this and instead of being happy with CCP they take a step back snap out of the excitement to think clearly about the climb and they doubt CCP.
I personally dont have this feeling but this is what I know people go through because I have been watching it happen recently and know its happened for a very long time.
Years ago I had the attitude if you cant hack it then you aren't good and you should go play something else.
I took a step back to think about how much time people have these days, expectations, and ideas of how to keep them interested in CCP / EvE. I am reading every post and many great ideas and thoughts about it all.
|
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
550
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 16:45:55 -
[81] - Quote
Four pages in such short time so all that can be said has been said.
If your friends say the sub is a scam, boy are they an entitled bunch. Servers need to be maintained and eevs need their pay.
People who complain about subs, I do not get it. No sevice is free. Free to play mechanics means incentive to spend money for something that else you cannot get. People who play 100% free a free to play are riding on another person's dime.
Cause of this and eve being effort first, a traditional free to play does not work. Plex essentially makes it like free to play. Some pay for isk, sub negates a monthy isk penalty.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
96
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 16:47:03 -
[82] - Quote
If someone has a problem with sub games then that pretty much means that IF the game would be f2p they'd have a problem with paying for anything, meaning they'd be freeloaders. Explain to us why CCP should change the game and us, the current players accept these changes, so that some freeloaders can play our game? |
Cyber SGB
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
121
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 16:58:01 -
[83] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Your friends don't sound particularly sophisticated, even if they are "great gamers". I'd suggest getting new ones.
- All invest spare limited time into a game over other choices of entertainment.
- All once invested spend money on that game to improve the experience but none want to pay to win model, they buy vanity items.
- All love Star Wars and Star Trek and have interest in experiencing what they see in the CCP movies.
- All once they realize the cost in time get discouraged at the steepness of the mountain.
- All start the climb.
- After the rookie missions most are expecting a taste of what they have seen in the CCP movie, do not get this taste but know they are just starting out.
- Ask what direction they need to take to experience what is in the movie.
- Most are excited download a program like Eve Mon to plan out a character career and training schedule see the time to train.
- All multiple the sub costs by the time they need to train a particular path and get upset at the thought of this and instead of being happy with CCP they take a step back snap out of the excitement to think clearly about the climb and they doubt CCP.
Sounds like they need to get over themselves. Most of what you listed means jack and **** as it relates to EvE. This isn't Star Trek and Star Wars. EvE is a long time investment. They need to get over their instant gratification bullshit. They also seem to have no idea about the game. Perhaps you aren't teaching them correctly. They can jump right in day one.
It's all about attitude. I bet most of us have limited time, but you don't see us throwing a tantrum.
Also. They don't want to pay, they don't need to play.
I write Kindle books. Visit my author page.
http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:06:20 -
[84] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:If someone has a problem with sub games then that pretty much means that IF the game would be f2p they'd have a problem with paying for anything, meaning they'd be freeloaders. Explain to us why CCP should change the game and us, the current players accept these changes, so that some freeloaders can play our game?
They aren't free loaders they spend on content they can keep like the ship skins this is how I think they think about it.
- Desire to play and pay for the experience they see in the movie or movies.
- Expectation that if they give it a few weeks they will being getting that experience in small tastes.
- If they invest 6 months of time and or money they will get the experience they see in the movies.
- If they continue up to a year of time they will get the full experience of Eve flying around in Titans and Super Caps when ever they want and using big guns to do bad things.
- All want to use dexterity or skills found in MOBAs or FPS's to win fights, skill shots, using cover, fog of war, etc.
- Once they experience the Rookie missions or what you would call the basic mechanics of Eve they ask well this isnt close to the movies, how do I go in that direction.
- Start doing the simple math until they hit the personal beyond responsible time limitations and pause.
- All walk away after a few days instead of what they wanted to do was run forward giving effort to learn.
- Every time they try to fit module and find out they have to wait even an hour to do it sours them.
- They were ready to pay for subs and just say they will give it another try after a few weeks of training since "I cant even put a launcher or turret on a ship or fly the ship I see in the movie."
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1372
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:13:59 -
[85] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:If someone has a problem with sub games then that pretty much means that IF the game would be f2p they'd have a problem with paying for anything, meaning they'd be freeloaders. Explain to us why CCP should change the game and us, the current players accept these changes, so that some freeloaders can play our game? They aren't free loaders they spend on content they can keep like the ship skins this is how I think they think about it.
- Desire to play and pay for the experience they see in the movie or movies.
- Expectation that if they give it a few weeks they will being getting that experience in small tastes.
- If they invest 6 months of time and or money they will get the experience they see in the movies.
- If they continue up to a year of time they will get the full experience of Eve flying around in Titans and Super Caps when ever they want and using big guns to do bad things.
- All want to use dexterity or skills found in MOBAs or FPS's to win fights, skill shots, using cover, fog of war, etc.
- Once they experience the Rookie missions or what you would call the basic mechanics of Eve they ask well this isnt close to the movies, how do I go in that direction.
- Start doing the simple math until they hit the personal beyond responsible time limitations and pause.
- All walk away after a few days instead of what they wanted to do was run forward giving effort to learn.
- Every time they try to fit module and find out they have to wait even an hour to do it sours them.
- They were ready to pay for subs and just say they will give it another try after a few weeks of training since "I cant even put a launcher or turret on a ship or fly the ship I see in the movie."
Why are you not simply be a good friend and give them the answers to their questions? You should have enough input now to do so, right?
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:19:37 -
[86] - Quote
Cyber SGB wrote:Verstal wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Your friends don't sound particularly sophisticated, even if they are "great gamers". I'd suggest getting new ones.
- All invest spare limited time into a game over other choices of entertainment.
- All once invested spend money on that game to improve the experience but none want to pay to win model, they buy vanity items.
- All love Star Wars and Star Trek and have interest in experiencing what they see in the CCP movies.
- All once they realize the cost in time get discouraged at the steepness of the mountain.
- All start the climb.
- After the rookie missions most are expecting a taste of what they have seen in the CCP movie, do not get this taste but know they are just starting out.
- Ask what direction they need to take to experience what is in the movie.
- Most are excited download a program like Eve Mon to plan out a character career and training schedule see the time to train.
- All multiple the sub costs by the time they need to train a particular path and get upset at the thought of this and instead of being happy with CCP they take a step back snap out of the excitement to think clearly about the climb and they doubt CCP.
Sounds like they need to get over themselves. Most of what you listed means jack and **** as it relates to EvE. This isn't Star Trek and Star Wars. EvE is a long time investment. They need to get over their instant gratification bullshit. They also seem to have no idea about the game. Perhaps you aren't teaching them correctly. They can jump right in day one. It's all about attitude. I bet most of us have limited time, but you don't see us throwing a tantrum. Also. They don't want to pay, they don't need to play.
I didnt create this expectation in them the CCP movie did, they consider it false advertising after starting the commitment. They are spoiled by the fact so much has changed in the game industry since Eve was invented. Eve at its core has remained the same and I enjoy it.
I think you are right about one thing I should have put them into Red or Blue or another Org on day one or two since they are orgs that manage these expectations better then I can by myself. So next time I get a group of people together I will try this approach maybe after next years movie when I seem to get interest in the game. This group is already moved on. Unless they saw a radical change in the game would they give it another shot.
|
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
550
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:27:48 -
[87] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
- Desire to play and pay for the experience they see in the movie or movies.
- Expectation that if they give it a few weeks they will being getting that experience in small tastes.
- If they invest 6 months of time and or money they will get the experience they see in the movies.
- If they continue up to a year of time they will get the full experience of Eve flying around in Titans and Super Caps when ever they want and using big guns to do bad things.
- They were ready to pay for subs and just say they will give it another try after a few weeks of training since "I cant even put a launcher or turret on a ship or fly the ship I see in the movie."
All the problems you mentioned are mostly the fault of simpified mechanics and player base. A pro and fun pvp experience is available from the start, but closed mindedness means SP 10m minimum and all that bs.
Edit: There is zero reason that people who are new cannot be in a main fight. In fact, they should be vital in my opinion. Shame though, people worry too much about their killboard stats instead of a gf.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:29:42 -
[88] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Verstal wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:If someone has a problem with sub games then that pretty much means that IF the game would be f2p they'd have a problem with paying for anything, meaning they'd be freeloaders. Explain to us why CCP should change the game and us, the current players accept these changes, so that some freeloaders can play our game? They aren't free loaders they spend on content they can keep like the ship skins this is how I think they think about it.
- Desire to play and pay for the experience they see in the movie or movies.
- Expectation that if they give it a few weeks they will being getting that experience in small tastes.
- If they invest 6 months of time and or money they will get the experience they see in the movies.
- If they continue up to a year of time they will get the full experience of Eve flying around in Titans and Super Caps when ever they want and using big guns to do bad things.
- All want to use dexterity or skills found in MOBAs or FPS's to win fights, skill shots, using cover, fog of war, etc.
- Once they experience the Rookie missions or what you would call the basic mechanics of Eve they ask well this isnt close to the movies, how do I go in that direction.
- Start doing the simple math until they hit the personal beyond responsible time limitations and pause.
- All walk away after a few days instead of what they wanted to do was run forward giving effort to learn.
- Every time they try to fit module and find out they have to wait even an hour to do it sours them.
- They were ready to pay for subs and just say they will give it another try after a few weeks of training since "I cant even put a launcher or turret on a ship or fly the ship I see in the movie."
Why are you not simply be a good friend and give them the answers to their questions? You should have enough input now to do so, right?
I spent hours a day with each of them or groups of them answering every question, and I enjoyed going through the basic content with them and seeing it through their new to the game eyes, but nothing I can do can give them the experience of the CCP movie at the rate they want to see it. |
Romvex
Just The Tip... Short Bus Syndicate
534
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:30:24 -
[89] - Quote
From what I'm reading it seems you want Eve to be free to play so your friends who play CoD and LoL can play with you without crying because the trailers have more action then they'll see for a while in the game. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25957
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:33:02 -
[90] - Quote
So this isn't actually an GÇ£I want F2PGÇ¥ whine, but an GÇ£I want P2WGÇ¥ whine. Goodie.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
552
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:39:29 -
[91] - Quote
I can see where they are coming from. What is presented and what is actually experienced are quite disconnexted. I feel the same. Even the dominion trailer was supposed to sample large alliance but I did not see station games and more than one ship at a time was being shot at.....
Even the visuals.... I used advanced camera options to change the visuals in eve. Most only see brackets. I see...
http://i.imgur.com/1Uv8td1.png
Why isnt this the default camera viewing and a hud that centres around this style?
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
234
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:40:56 -
[92] - Quote
Verstal wrote: All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off."
...they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
Bad troll is bad. Your "friends" are ready to spend money on the game, but object to $15 a month (or less) for a subscription, and think it's a scam? Have they never played a subscription based MMO before?
Verstal wrote: I have had a few days to think about this based on the feedback from my gaming group as they love to talk about this on vent and I know this would be a radical departure from the game it is today, but they would be willing to buy ships and skins for real money if they could keep them.
This game isn't for your friends, apparently. There are a couple other space games out there where you can buy your ships with IRL money and not worry about losing them, like Star Trek Online. Stop trying to turn EVE into something it's not. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1375
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:41:44 -
[93] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
I spent hours a day with each of them or groups of them answering every question, and I enjoyed going through the basic content with them and seeing it through their new to the game eyes, but nothing I can do can give them the experience of the CCP movie at the rate they want to see it.
But F2P if not actually meant as P2W will not help to overcome the impatience of your friends ... EvE is a complex game with a lot of freedom for the players, and most of the content (especially the one shown in the video) is organized and created by other players. So you need to find the right group to do the fun stuff with (btw, the names of the groups and players are mentioned in the trailer). If you just sit there and wait that the fun comes to you, EvE certainly will suck.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:48:12 -
[94] - Quote
Romvex wrote:From what I'm reading it seems you want Eve to be free to play so your friends who play CoD and LoL can play with you without crying because the trailers have more action then they'll see for a while in the game.
People have high expectations these days the expectation that CCP movie creates is hard for most people to find on their own, but these are people that spend money on games every day of the week.
So taking a hardline stance that they arent worth the trouble is something I felt myself for years.
I am older softened my stance on this and am trying to figure out a way to keep people logging in and training so that they might give it another shot in a few months and not just remove the game from their computer.
Funny you mention CoD and LoL some of these people work on those games for a living, so the last thing they want is to play something like them in fact the biggest draw for me personally is it has nothing to do with CoD. I wonder why that is? :-)
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Mag's
the united
20185
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 17:51:27 -
[95] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I am not new 8 years in same corp. Yet here you are, still ignorant of how Eve and the Plex works, after all those years.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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WASPY69
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
411
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 18:29:16 -
[96] - Quote
OP you're ignoring the most important fact about EVE. It's not a casual game, it's a hobby. It's a hobby for adults who like risk and reward, and also internet spaceships. It's sort of the last great MMO, not yet turned into a theme park.
The thing with free to play games is you get in, get your quick fix and get out. Kinda like sex without foreplay. Great to satisfy your itch, but some crave more. And the answer is EVE.
Furthermore, EVE isn't a game focused on gameplay as much as social interaction. You value the people you meet more than the amount of SP in your head. I would have equally as fun in a Rifter as I would in a Naglfar if I was flying with the right group of people.
So if they're not interested in joining a group and forming new friendships and they just care about their rank and K/D ratio then EVE isn't for them.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
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Posted - 2015.09.06 18:40:32 -
[97] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Verstal wrote:I am not new 8 years in same corp. Yet here you are, still ignorant of how Eve and the Plex works, after all those years.
When I started we had no Plex, I thought it was a mistake at the time to introduce them, but changed that stance after I realized that I could stop paying my subs since had enough isk do what I wanted in the game and not give CCP money but as a game developer myself I thought it was a short cut to increase profits for CCP.
My expectation for CCP is that they would use this influx of cash to increase the quality of the content following the same pattern they had which was updating the visuals based on video card performance capabilities.
They showed me the Walking in Station demo on a laptop 10 years ago at GDC, I went on a white board and explained to them how the speed of light at which information travels would prevent them from creating the system they had shown me at the time, and some possible ways around it.
All the ways would be a fundamental change to the core structure of Eve and we all agreed that it would be a terrible path to follow, but they continued to invest in what they renamed Ambulation for years.
Most of the money from initial burst of Plex cash went into buying White Wolf and starting the Vampire team not Eve.
I then again met more CCP in Shanghai went drinking with them had a few lunches we mostly talked about DUST before it was released since I am considered an expert on that genre, COD, Quake Series, Medal Honor etc.
Now we seem to be at state where CCP has slowly nerfed income generation for a certain percentage of he population and those people are choosing to leave the game instead of paying for it.
Could be good new players getting to experience the same content with fresh eyes, ah we come full circle my recent experience newer players not wanting to work that hard for what they are seeing in trailer. This is why I asked the question about Free To Play. Many of your ideas are inspiring.
Regardless of my personal history with CCP I love Eve for what it is but finding it hard to keep good gamers interested in it long enough to invest in it, by designing a free to play model that doesn't destroy what veteran players love about the game could be time well spent for CCP to survive the next 10 years.
No easy task, but I am thinking about it, and writing down a design for them for free before i get dragged into another life consuming development cycle.
Current CCP trend is VR headsets and breaking parts off the game to create to products like Valkyrie which use the same models in the Unreal 3 or 4 engine but give the player a different experience, and offer CCP new revenue steam.
These new streams could be used to support Eve and continue to increase the fidelity of the Eve Universe but again they might use this cash to take to break more of Eve into other smaller products hoping one hits it big.
The UI direction is an indicator that CCP have plans to put Eve on touch screen devices so that you can play it from an iPad and or other tablet device. I am sure this possible to do this already.
The content delivery method mentioned in the Fan fest video of content on demand would indicate that this in fact a way to deliver content to smaller devices. By putting development resources in this direction it seems that CCP is moving away from the standard PC as a hardware platform.
Predicted next marketing message, You can Take Eve Everywhere! or New Eden in the palm of your hand!
Done for now, sorry for long post. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
42
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Posted - 2015.09.06 19:15:14 -
[98] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
I usually dont brag but that one asked for it.
I am not one of the most prolific jack of all trades in eve and I have been plexing at least 4 accounts since I stopped paying for EVE it has been a little over 4 years. Trade, Salvage, Hauling, and I dont even mission run besides standing distro mish here and there. Occasionally I get my more skilled chars into the bazaar.
You also can play EVE for free as plex do not in practical terms is your ability to play, but your ability to retain skillpoints for more than 30 days or to train certain skills.
EVE is a so deep sandbox that if you want it to be free to play, you can make it yourself.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
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Posted - 2015.09.06 19:32:16 -
[99] - Quote
WASPY69 wrote:OP you're ignoring the most important fact about EVE. It's not a casual game, it's a hobby. It's a hobby for adults who like risk and reward, and also internet spaceships. It's sort of the last great MMO, not yet turned into a theme park.
The thing with free to play games is you get in, get your quick fix and get out. Kinda like sex without foreplay. Great to satisfy your itch, but some crave more. And the answer is EVE.
Furthermore, EVE isn't a game focused on gameplay as much as social interaction. You value the people you meet more than the amount of SP in your head. I would have equally as fun in a Rifter as I would in a Naglfar if I was flying with the right group of people.
So if they're not interested in joining a group and forming new friendships and they just care about their rank and K/D ratio then EVE isn't for them.
Good points!
I guess it is a question of survival if CCP can survive while creating new products based on Eve to expand the type of customer and amount of customers revenue using New Eden as a test bed for this content they might be fine if one of these new products hit.
Risk is that if they build and invest in content away from the core Eve player or make game play changes that turn off the dedicated hardcore customer and do not have enough new players to replace that revenue stream and if these new players are dedicated enough to stay with the product to invest in it.
This has always been the risk and they have had a few minor stumbles but as far as batting average CCP does a great job of creating content that its customers love.
Just as a side note: As long as they keep making new ships they are safe with me, I love new ships, training for them, fitting them, testing them, that alone is enough to keep me happy, but I am old paper and pen Battletech, StarFleetBattles, Champions gamer, also grew up on Elite from the Apple II these are the reasons I fell in love with Eve to begin with but I am the minority of worldwide gamers, like you.
Hobby point is fine if you have the time to make it your hobby its a very narrow part of the gaming population that can afford the time requirement you mention they have enough time to play a few hours a night and go back to RL.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13815
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:32:17 -
[100] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:The people who will multibox already multibox. Oh heck no, no way, face reality on that one. Most people would suddenly have suicide ganker alts scattered throughout highsec. No effort suicide ganker alts swarming all areas of the game, ready at a moments notice within a few gates.
The way it is now, when the month is up, those alts become unusable. But make this game f2p and you will have swarms of deadly suicide gankers coming at you every day until you either join them or quit.
And what is CCP going to do about it, remove PvP? This game would turn into friggen My Little Pony Online!
This thread is one of the most irrational topics that keep popping up every other month until locked. And I recall a video where CCP said they could never do it, not unless EVE was designed that way from the start, so really it's just a troll thread topic. F2P is impossible for EVE, period.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
42
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:36:46 -
[101] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Val'Dore wrote:The people who will multibox already multibox. Oh heck no, no way, face reality on that one. Most people would suddenly have suicide ganker alts scattered throughout highsec. No effort suicide ganker alts swarming all areas of the game, ready at a moments notice within a few gates. The way it is now, when the month is up, those alts become unusable. But make this game f2p and you will have swarms of deadly suicide gankers coming at you every day until you either join them or quit. And what is CCP going to do about it, remove PvP? This game would turn into friggen My Little Pony Online! This thread is one of the most irrational topics that keep popping up every other month until locked. And I recall a video where CCP said they could never do it, not unless EVE was designed that way from the start, so really it's just a troll thread topic. F2P is impossible for EVE, period.
You can easly use the buddy program to get an alt to provide a double plex for you. You get one account, and instead of plexing that account, you plex a buddy one and get 30 days for both. It doesnt matter if you paying in IRL money or ISK. You have 60 days which from the spoils of ganking and general mobbing, you can fund easly a group of people with dozens of alts, without even paying IRL money.
The base problem there is just that in EVE the crime does pay, much more than not doing it.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2139
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:44:54 -
[102] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered. Agreed . Considering that and the fact that really per hour EvE works out to be cheap entertainment, EvE is far from being a scam / ripoff.
ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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Sovox
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:56:08 -
[103] - Quote
CCP's pay model is fine the way it is, even a casual player with one account can eventually plex it every month with little effort. Just my opinion : EVE even its current state (Fozzie Sov) of being broken that ends up making a huge number of ships irrelevant, EVE is still the best game on the market and has been for many years I do not see any reason for CCP give it away for free when the plex can give you the option to play for free. I wish more games followed the CCP model tbh. |
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:57:08 -
[104] - Quote
This is always going to be the case until there are many other true sandbox games on the market. Players of other games will have trouble notionally understanding Eve as there is no precedent. It's unique.
Coming to Eve, everything you ever thought you knew about gaming isn't of much use.
Like a previous poster said, it's more of a hobby.
ed. It also has an older crowd, with jobs and stuff. Three hours U.K. minimum wage and you have your sub payed for and a billion isk to blow. Don't get me started on those unemployed nullbear shut-ins who brag about all the isk they make to plex when they've put 30-50 hours in to do it. You can work a real job for 1.5 hrs and get the same.
Get a job. You might have more time to get a girlfriend too. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13815
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Posted - 2015.09.06 20:59:33 -
[105] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:
You can easly use the buddy program to get an alt to provide a double plex for you. You get one account, and instead of plexing that account, you plex a buddy one and get 30 days for both. It doesnt matter if you paying in IRL money or ISK. You have 60 days which from the spoils of ganking and general mobbing, you can fund easly a group of people with dozens of alts, without even paying IRL money.
The base problem there is just that in EVE the crime does pay, much more than not doing it.
It would be a whole lot worse. I could stake out say 10 systems reasonably, station a few suicide ganker alts in each system, then multi-box them in at a moments notice. I could have those alts there for years, pulling them out on my whim, fully trained for what they can do. That's a lot of effort as it is now, unless you have unlimited ISK or unlimited money, which no one does. And that's just casual ganking with say ~30 accounts, the hardcore ganker would likely have 100's of accounts covering regions as they roam.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Schmantoo
I Really Hate You Guys
3
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Posted - 2015.09.06 21:03:16 -
[106] - Quote
Webvan wrote:EVE is not the game for them.
Eve is not the game for most people looking at the login numbers. CCP can either try something different, or ride it strait into the ground.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1008
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Posted - 2015.09.06 21:29:04 -
[107] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Val'Dore wrote:The people who will multibox already multibox. Oh heck no, no way, face reality on that one. Most people would suddenly have suicide ganker alts scattered throughout highsec. No effort suicide ganker alts swarming all areas of the game, ready at a moments notice within a few gates. The way it is now, when the month is up, those alts become unusable. But make this game f2p and you will have swarms of deadly suicide gankers coming at you every day until you either join them or quit. And what is CCP going to do about it, remove PvP? This game would turn into friggen My Little Pony Online! This thread is one of the most irrational topics that keep popping up every other month until locked. And I recall a video where CCP said they could never do it, not unless EVE was designed that way from the start, so really it's just a troll thread topic. F2P is impossible for EVE, period.
That is certainly a consideration.
Trial accounts can't use T2 ships or weapons, no T3 ships, no capital ships, no jump clones, no mining barges, no freighters, no cynos, and no cloaks. As well as a lot of other skills they aren't able to use. They can't even have AWU.
If ganker seeding is your worry, maybe that is more a personal problem than an actual problem.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
189
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Posted - 2015.09.06 21:44:20 -
[108] - Quote
A few microtransaction ideas to help the OP's suggestion along:
- hats
- the obligatory gold Raven
- entosis links run on Aurum
- Concord protection goes to the highest bidder
- rename yourself or others with PLEX
- hats
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 21:54:12 -
[109] - Quote
beakerax wrote:A few microtransaction ideas to help the OP's suggestion along:
- hats
- the obligatory gold Raven
- entosis links run on Aurum
- Concord protection goes to the highest bidder
- rename yourself or others with PLEX
- hats
I know you are making a joke and I did laugh but you did hit on something.
I think renaming your own characters is a great idea this concept used by other companies people pay 5 dollars for it
Also add to that clearing corp history, so that if did invest you could have a clean history and name you wanted.
This could also be used by spies, which is good for them, they pay to be better spies or of they have really clean history you might suspect them more then a normal person. Anyway it would add game play for a small amount of money. |
WASPY69
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
413
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 22:29:37 -
[110] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I think renaming your own characters is a great idea this concept used by other companies people pay 5 dollars for it
Also add to that clearing corp history, so that if did invest you could have a clean history and name you wanted.
This would conflict with what EVE is all about though. Remember the butterfly effect trailer? Everyone helps shape the history and events of New Eden, sometimes unknowingly. The decisions you make in EVE will ripple one way or another. And that's one of the reasons we all love EVE so much. Actions have consequences. No "contained" gameplay or safe areas, be who you want to be, be it a lone wolf, a pirate, a great leader etc.. People will (hopefully) remember your name for good or bad.
If you're desperate and have really ruined your name and corp history you can always start fresh and create a new account. Then pray no one recognizes your voice on comms etc.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
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Posted - 2015.09.07 00:34:41 -
[111] - Quote
WASPY69 wrote:Verstal wrote:I think renaming your own characters is a great idea this concept used by other companies people pay 5 dollars for it
Also add to that clearing corp history, so that if did invest you could have a clean history and name you wanted. This would conflict with what EVE is all about though. Remember the butterfly effect trailer? Everyone helps shape the history and events of New Eden, sometimes unknowingly. The decisions you make in EVE will ripple one way or another. And that's one of the reasons we all love EVE so much. Actions have consequences. No "contained" gameplay or safe areas, be who you want to be, be it a lone wolf, a pirate, a great leader etc.. People will (hopefully) remember your name for good or bad. If you're desperate and have really ruined your name and corp history you can always start fresh and create a new account. Then pray no one recognizes your voice on comms etc.
The butterfly effect video you are talking is about 6 year old and another CCP hype video not quite based on reality because the chances of a player having that exact experience in under 3 months are about a billion to one.
If you watch this years fan fest they spent special time to talk about the hype video creation issue they have had and why they used real players for this latest video a video that has more views then any they have created before.
Now people have seen this latest video have interest in the game, want that experience. Maybe the rookie missions could end with an NPC titan with large NPC fleet around you as the player a large event they take part in. You know a scripted Death star moment. For a pay off. Good idea ty!
All missions should have a scripted ending which extends the eve fiction so they can do one mission an evening and get a larger and larger pay off if they want to focus on that aspect of the game, dam I would do all the missions again and all the races again to get this pay off. And all the content and scripting system has been created to do this work. Ty sir!
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WASPY69
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
413
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Posted - 2015.09.07 01:43:01 -
[112] - Quote
Verstal wrote:The butterfly effect video you are talking is about 6 year old and another CCP hype video not quite based on reality because the chances of a player having that exact experience in under 3 months are about a billion to one.
If you watch this years fan fest they spent special time to talk about the hype video creation issue they have had and why they used real players for this latest video a video that has more views then any they have created before.
Now people have seen this latest video have interest in the game, want that experience. Maybe the rookie missions could end with an NPC titan with large NPC fleet around you as the player a large event they take part in. You know a scripted Death star moment. For a pay off. Good idea ty!
All missions should have a scripted ending which extends the eve fiction so they can do one mission an evening and get a larger and larger pay off if they want to focus on that aspect of the game, dam I would do all the missions again and all the races again to get this pay off. And all the content and scripting system has been created to do this work. Ty sir!
The rookie event is actually a pretty cool idea. Perhaps send them on a scripted story arch that ends with two great powers having a slug fest or something and you can decide to either be a spai, FC, F1 pusher, or logistics/industry etc...
I see where you're coming from though, that the old EVE initiation of "Welcome to EVE! Here's a spaceship! **** you!" is still very much there. I guess that's the way of a true sandbox game. Today's generation expects near instant rewards, and the old-school model of working towards something and figuring out things without being hand held is pretty much obsolete. Sad but true.
I think the NPE is the most important focus CCP has, and imo it needs to put more emphasis on joining a corporation. Not sure what the best approach would be, but somehow make newbies join bigger, established ones. It makes me so sad when i see newbies join small "Do a little bit of everything, with a CEO that's afk" kinda "new player friendly" corps, and then quit after a week because they get bored, or get wardecced and drop to an NPC corp and spend the rest of their EVE days mining or running missions in high sec..
TL;DR I really hope CCP improves the NPE a lot more.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13817
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Posted - 2015.09.07 01:49:58 -
[113] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:If ganker seeding is your worry, maybe that is more a personal problem than an actual problem. Hah that's a good one, sidestep the obvious logic and make it some personal issue.
I have no issues say with CODE. or Goons etc. blap away! But I do have a personal issue with turning my game into a trash f2p and the hoards of 12yo suicide gankers that will invade. Anyone in their right mind would have an issue with that.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
901
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Posted - 2015.09.07 04:35:01 -
[114] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
If only all newbies had 3+ years of in game knowledge when they started. Then they would be able to do just like you.
The ones mentioned by the OP had an 8 year old player to guide them.
And players who start with no friends have google and youtube.
But I guess people are too lazy. And they start in NPC corps, where they have a lot of people telling them they can't do anything except mine and mission as a noob.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25972
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Posted - 2015.09.07 05:54:37 -
[115] - Quote
Schmantoo wrote:Eve is not the game for most people looking at the login numbers. CCP can either try something different, or ride it strait into the ground. They are trying something different. In fact, they're trying many different things GÇö EVE is just not one of them. That's probably for the best since, if you have a secure income stream, making it insecure before you've fully managed to diversify isn't the smartest of moves.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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May Arethusa
SessionChange
55
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:29:12 -
[116] - Quote
Quote:jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are
What kind of elite, top 5 percentile gamer forgets where F1 is on their keyboard? I guess standards are much lower in other games. |
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
13
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:39:00 -
[117] - Quote
The VC's wrote:This is always going to be the case until there are many other true sandbox games on the market. Players of other games will have trouble notionally understanding Eve as there is no precedent. It's unique.
Coming to Eve, everything you ever thought you knew about gaming isn't of much use.
Like a previous poster said, it's more of a hobby.
ed. It also has an older crowd, with jobs and stuff. Three hours U.K. minimum wage and you have your sub payed for and a billion isk to blow. Don't get me started on those unemployed nullbear shut-ins who brag about all the isk they make to plex when they've put 30-50 hours in to do it. You can work a real job for 1.5 hrs and get the same.
Get a job. You might have more time to get a girlfriend too.
Some of us either do not have or do not want that kind of luxury involved in the game. I find it would be more satisfying to earn the ISK in-game in order to be able to buy PLEX and extend your game time.
As for us "nullbear shut-ins", you probably should take about 20-40 hours off of your projections, since I've heard that the high-experienced Null-Sec players with the proper skills can rake in 100 million ISK/hour off of anomalies alone (or hit the jackpot, like I once did. )
Essentially, one just has to set some time aside throughout the week, and they can rake in the amount of ISK necessary to buy PLEX easy (if only it wasn't so expensive. ) |
Josef Djugashvilis
2984
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:40:44 -
[118] - Quote
Yes, for the short time it would take CPP to go broke.
This is not a signature.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1559
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Posted - 2015.09.07 07:05:54 -
[119] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:If ganker seeding is your worry, maybe that is more a personal problem than an actual problem. Know this:
If EVE ever becomes free to play, you opened a box for us that you should have left closed. Even the Skiffs will burn if a fleet of rookie ships descends on them and blasts them into oblivion. More ganker chars means cheaper ganks and more damage output. Also 15min timer? no more! I just login another fleet of alts!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1381
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Posted - 2015.09.07 08:00:56 -
[120] - Quote
Rewards, success, achievements ... what is it worth to win against stupid NPCs or solve scripted events (if not for cash only)? The NPE instead needs to more involve player organizations, e.g. have a prominent opportunity to join one of the NPSI fleets and score a kill with at least 5 other people on the killmail.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tiberius Mathusia
Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords
8
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Posted - 2015.09.07 08:22:11 -
[121] - Quote
If people aren't willing to pay to play this game then it's probably just not the game for them. There are other MMO'S I'm unwilling to pay to play which are perfectly good games but just not right for me. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1455
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Posted - 2015.09.07 08:22:33 -
[122] - Quote
these forums are starting to get a bit like a free2play game, same sh!ty posts day in day out. its like a total grind reading the same threads over and over again
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
173
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Posted - 2015.09.07 09:38:46 -
[123] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:Some of us either do not have or do not want that kind of luxury involved in the game. I find it would be more satisfying to earn the ISK in-game in order to be able to buy PLEX and extend your game time. As for us "nullbear shut-ins", you probably should take about 20-40 hours off of your projections, since I've heard that the high-experienced Null-Sec players with the proper skills can rake in 100 million ISK/hour off of anomalies alone (or hit the jackpot, like I once did. ) Essentially, one just has to set some time aside throughout the week, and they can rake in the amount of ISK necessary to buy PLEX easy (if only it wasn't so expensive. )
I've heard those high-end null sec players too.
In my experience those tales of 100 mill an hour are more accurately "I made 100 mil an hour once, but usually it's more like 30 mill". To stand any chance of a high tick you need an expensive and luxurious ratting carrier setup or similar which you probably wouldn't want anyway.
The idea of your endgame being grinding isk to pay for your account so you can keep grinding isk to pay for your account.... has just always seemed a bit daft to me. Setting time aside IRL is a significantly better isk/hr ratio.
I'm a PVP'r. I like flying ships and getting them exploded after a GF, not shooting red crosses. My usual business plan has me subbing with cash normally with an occasional plex purchase which I then use to seed a market somewhere. This then makes my bought plex last a whole lot longer. I always plan on taking my profits and reseeding the market but I never do. It just gets spunked away on more explosions. I'm more interested in a good isk/hassle ratio. My market setup makes me either 1.4 mill isk/hour every hour weather I'm logged or not, or in terms of actual time at keyboard around 500 mill an hour. That's a great tick.
But hey, I fly frigs and dessys. I'm sure one of the reasons those guys spend time ratting in carriers is because they can sit in the carrier they invested so much time and isk into. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
339
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Posted - 2015.09.07 10:13:41 -
[124] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Eve is free to play.
Am I doing it right? confirmed you're indeed doing it right.
|
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
339
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 10:31:22 -
[125] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged
this is the first indication that they will not enjoy EVE and will spend most of their time on the forums screaming for shorter training times. they'll never be happy. wrong game for these people, a pity but that's just how it is.
Verstal wrote: subscriptions fees -- most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money.
this is the second indication that they will not enjoy EVE and will spend most of their time on the forums screaming about (insert random idea we've had a thousands times) . they'll never be happy. wrong game for these people, again a pity.
Verstal wrote: Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
sounds like people who are not interested in playing EVE. no amount of skills or ships will keep these people. they are not even interested in logging in to play.
Verstal wrote: So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
they are not ready to spend money as you stated above --- "most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money"
Verstal wrote: I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
they want a a new character but want it full of win from day one,,,,, hahahahahahaha
you've just got to understand that EVE is not for all, then everything will be ok
|
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 11:25:11 -
[126] - Quote
So your friends have money and are willing to spend it, but they dont want to pay the subscription ?
That ... makes no sense.
Your real complain is that your friends dont start at the same skillpoint level as a 10 year old player. Thats a totally different thing than your topic stays. IF EvE would go F2P it would change nothing about the fact that your friends still start in a frig.
CCP allready stated that new player starting skillpoints are to low and will likely be buffed in the near future. But this will not be as mutch as you hope it will be. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
537
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 13:01:38 -
[127] - Quote
Nothing is free.
End of lesson.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
|
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 13:31:33 -
[128] - Quote
I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.
How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons? |
Black Panpher
Middle-aged pony tail
4690
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 13:42:31 -
[129] - Quote
I'm going to play demons avocado here and I'm not saying I think eve should be free to play or that a agree with that concept but....
Some of the most successful of games out now are f2p and NOT p2w and i bet they make way more bank than CCP. Non-p2w micro transactions are def the way to go but ATM CCP are terrible at them so that wouldn't work for eve. |
Black Panpher
Middle-aged pony tail
4690
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 13:46:29 -
[130] - Quote
The VC's wrote:I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.
How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons?
Take league of legends for example everything can be obtained through gaining points in game, the only things that cost real money are skins and champions if you don't wish to buy them with earned in game points.
I know players with thousands of hours who have all the champs and not dropped a penny on the game because the game itself is supported by the many other people who enjoy spending money on skins. |
|
Nou Mene
Out of Focus Odin's Call
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 13:48:16 -
[131] - Quote
Cmon a subscription is USD$15 a month, im pretty sure you spend more on beers one night out. If you are unwilling to pay that for something that gives you entertainment (at least to me it does) almost daily for some hours then EvE its indeed not for you. I mean.. how much is cable (or similar) TV this days? Then, there are many ways to do 50-100 m/hr in this game, that could make it free to play actually. But plexes are still going up.
Anyway, I do support helping new players to get in at least one useful role/ship quickly. Right now there is a lot of strong low skill ships.
Greetings. |
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 15:40:36 -
[132] - Quote
Black Panpher wrote:The VC's wrote:I've never really played any so my question truly comes from a place of sincere naivety.
How can the experience of a free to play game be any good without spending money for the add-ons? Take league of legends for example everything can be obtained through gaining points in game, the only things that cost real money are skins and champions if you don't wish to buy them with earned in game points. I know players with thousands of hours who have all the champs and not dropped a penny on the game because the game itself is supported by the many other people who enjoy spending money on skins.
Thanks for a good answer.
I've messed about on Planetside for a bit but that's about it. It was fun. You do start with a char that has some reasonable effectiveness and the scaling up distance doesn't seem that much compared to eve from what I saw. Plus the objectives were pretty straightforward and proscribed so starting with a decent amount of agency didn't seem that dangerous. Unlike eve though.
Giving new players enough power for satisfying agency seems like a good idea until you realise that giving experienced players with new alts that power is a very bad idea indeed. And doing that in a universe where the players develop new goals faster than the devs can keep up thing would get out of hand pretty quick.
Idk, Eve isn't really the ships or the mechanics. That's all just substrate for the real game which is pitting your plans and schemes against another real live human soul. Not button mashing or min/maxing ingame items. I don't really know how that concept could be expressed to a new player coming in cold and it's not the stuff that usually translates well in any marketing. The this is eve vid is the best go yet but it's quite a big idea for a console generation. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 15:48:15 -
[133] - Quote
May Arethusa wrote:Quote:jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are What kind of elite, top 5 percentile gamer forgets where F1 is on their keyboard? I guess standards are much lower in other games.
The interface for Eve online is very deep for new players, and you have in station, in space versions. Compare Eve's interface to LoL, Dota2, GO, or CoD, these games are not MMO's but are popular now compare the layout of most MMO to Eve, most are ripped off from Wow and changed for that particular game, the differences are easy to spot if you are familiar with Wow, transition is smooth for most people. Eve is very unique.
Pretend you know nothing of the game start opening windows.
But this is another good point, removing the windows and neocom buttons for new player so they have 2 or 3 instead of 10 choices which are revealed in a staged manor as events or tasks appeared would be less intimidating to new players and allow them to learn each window as its needed based on the new event system.
Channel People and places Wallet Ship fitting
Could be good starter choices or design a system to base the choices on the type of rookie mission picked. Reveal buttons as they are required.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:00:39 -
[134] - Quote
Black Panpher wrote:I'm going to play demons avocado here and I'm not saying I think eve should be free to play or that a agree with that concept but....
Some of the most successful of games out now are f2p and NOT p2w and i bet they make way more bank than CCP. Non-p2w micro transactions are def the way to go but ATM CCP are terrible at them so that wouldn't work for eve.
Yes a game like Dota2 makes 12.5 mil a day, LoL 32mil a day these are world wide numbers. You cant pay to win them, only vanity items, if you want to buy boosts then you can play to get to a level 30 skill cap faster which allows for ranked play and full rune pages.
League is not a easy game to learn either you get yelled at the entire time as you go up to level 20 before the yelling slows, but you aren't paying for this experience, most of my friends I have taught about LoL get hooked on one free character then when the free trial ends after a week they miss playing them so much they open their wallet to keep that champ and get a skin the like for it.
They rotate the free champs once a week and give you I think 7, Dota2 gives you all the champs at the start 120 and you buy vanity items created by the player community, so if you are artist you can sell your cool "hat" or sword you made and people will vote on it to get it into the shop once in the shop people can buy it for real money. So in Dota2 some people actually making money from making content for it.
Some people in Eve managed to make real world money of the content, but this was the made possible by exploits not a system designed by CCP.
How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?
|
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:02:09 -
[135] - Quote
Verstal wrote:May Arethusa wrote:Quote:jump on to Eve and try to remember where all the buttons are What kind of elite, top 5 percentile gamer forgets where F1 is on their keyboard? I guess standards are much lower in other games. The interface for Eve online is very deep for new players, and you have in station, in space versions. Compare Eve's interface to LoL, Dota2, GO, or CoD, these games are not MMO's but are popular now compare the layout of most MMO to Eve, most are ripped off from Wow and changed for that particular game, the differences are easy to spot if you are familiar with Wow, transition is smooth for most people. Eve is very unique. Pretend you know nothing of the game start opening windows. But this is another good point, removing the windows and neocom buttons for new player so they have 2 or 3 instead of 10 choices which are revealed in a staged manor as events or tasks appeared would be less intimidating to new players and allow them to learn each window as its needed based on the new event system. Channel People and places Wallet Ship fitting Could be good starter choices or design a system to base the choices on the type of rookie mission picked. Reveal buttons as they are required.
That probably could be made to work, although it may also hinder learning too and require more of a lengthy induction process. That in itself may end up making eve seem impenetrable again.
I suppose it's a lot like booting up Photoshop or Autocad for the first time (which I do teach to students on occasion). I usually start the classes by saying that it seems overwhelming, all those functions. There is an urge to poke at them all, which usually ends up with you making a hash of things or burning out. The way the need to approach it is to set a goal, decide what it is they want to change or alter and then just find and focus in on the functions that will do that. It takes effort to block out all the other icons and potentialities.
I would say a case could be made for CCP employing professional group leaders (outreach) to get newbro in fleets and doing stuff. Regular rookie system fleet form ups and the like. It may seem daft for other games but in eve it could be a hand up. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
343
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:14:39 -
[136] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?
concern yourself with playing the game and let CCP worry about their cash flow.
free to play EVE,,,, no fecking thanks. DOTA2 and the likes can keep all the screaming shites and idiots. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25977
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:22:31 -
[137] - Quote
Verstal wrote: How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?
$68.6m revenue; $11m pre-tax profit for 2014.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:47:13 -
[138] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote: How much do you think CCP makes per year based on the data that is public?
$68.6m revenue; $11m pre-tax profit for 2014.
Yes Tippia! I found those numbers as well.
One skin in LoL from 3 years ago when the game was smaller made 25 mil in 4 hours during Valentines day for a character named Vanye the skin was sexy hearts named heart seeker Vayne. I got that number directly from a Riot employee, because they were in shock that such a small amount of work on their end could result in that type of revenue generation.
I am using this example not to rub this in CCP's face but to give you a scale, and to express that the model that CCP is using has limitations, you could say its backwards the customer very demanding, the content takes longer to generate and the revenue generation is limited by the players ability to fly ships which could take years of real time training, years of paying a sub, and years of developing methods for isk generation, also add to this you must find a group of players you like to play with that have enough skill and org structure to control some part of 0 space.
Very very tall order, even for an dedicated Eve player top 15% of Eve probably reach this goal which is portrayed in the movies as something that you can do over a weekend of hard playing.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25977
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 16:57:14 -
[139] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Very very tall order, even for an dedicated Eve player top 15% of Eve probably reach this goal which is portrayed in the movies as something that you can do over a weekend of hard playing. Where on earth did you get that silly idea from?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 17:31:10 -
[140] - Quote
To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap. |
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
901
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 23:33:19 -
[141] - Quote
The VC's wrote:To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.
Yeah, the blue Stratios looks cool. Other than that, meh. Though even the blue Stratios looks a bit... unfinished and plastic. Like a Stratios was just dunked in blue paint. A lot of the custom skins feel that way. Doesn't feel natural. A side effect of a simple palette swap rather than a skin designed from scratch with intent.
Gallente with it's retro shapes could do with some custom skins with shark mouth and lady luck decals. Piratey types would probably dig that. Maybe an olive drab + aluminum skin to further mimic old bombers for ships like the Algos. Put a shark mouth up near the front. And a sexy lady in place of the Gallente logo. Also, I'm sure more police variants would sell well. And maybe a two tone skin mimicking 30s-40s hotrods ... burgundy top and grey bottom with chrome trim for the Domi or something.
Or some more colorful homeworld-ish skins for Minmatar like so. Or some skins for Ishukone ships like the Eagle that replace the horrible Ishukone fade with gold feather-like decals like the ones seen on this skin. Though something like that should have been the stock Ishukone skin IMHO. Full-body fades are just ugly. So is camouflage. Angels ships would look cool reverted back to their solid dark color, but with bold graphic angular stripes applied with white paint in a messy fashion, that somewhat mimic the faction's logo. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:18:19 -
[142] - Quote
Verstal wrote: Yes a game like Dota2 makes 12.5 mil a day, LoL 32mil a day these are world wide numbers.
No they do not - that equates to 4.5 billion USD and 11.6 billion USD annually. Not even close. You overstated these amounts by about 1,800%.
But don't take my word for it:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-01-20-league-of-legends-2013-revenue-topped-USD600m-report
Highest revenue game was just shy of 1 billion USD annually.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:18:37 -
[143] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:The VC's wrote:To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap. Yeah, the blue Stratios looks cool. Other than that, meh. Gallente with it's retro shapes could do with some custom skins with shark mouth and lady luck decals. Piratey types would probably dig that. Maybe an olive drab + aluminum skin to further mimic old bombers for ships like the Algos. Put a shark mouth up near the front. And a sexy lady in place of the Gallente logo. Also, I'm sure more police variants would sell well. And maybe a two tone skin mimicking 30s-40s hotrods ... burgundy top and grey bottom with chrome trim for the Domi or something. Or some more colorful homeworld-ish skins for Minmatar like so. Or some skins for Ishukone ships like the Eagle that replace the horrible Ishukone fade with gold feather-like decals like the ones seen on this skin. Though something like that should have been the stock Ishukone skin IMHO. Full-body fades are just ugly. So is camouflage. Angels ships would look cool reverted back to their solid dark color, but with bold graphic angular stripes applied with white paint in a messy fashion, that somewhat mimic the faction's logo.
All good suggestions and I agree.
I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.
Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.
Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:24:59 -
[144] - Quote
Verstal wrote: All good suggestions and I agree.
I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.
Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.
Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one.
Seriously, wtf?
No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:45:42 -
[145] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote: All good suggestions and I agree.
I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.
Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.
Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one. Seriously, wtf?
No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be?
It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project.
|
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
153
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:46:29 -
[146] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Name one F2P game that isn't completely moronic due to p2W and/or an influx of hilarious shitclowns and full of 12 yearolds.
I fully Agreed there are a lot of 12 year old's who play lots of games and if they do not get their way they winge and whine till the devs have to do something about it.
I have continued to play EvE and had paid for one year sub at a time.
Its much cheaper to pay for one year sub than one month at a time do the maths for those new players.
CCP has done a marvelous job over the years in keeping this game going and yes since the last update things have been quite for CCP.
And no I do not agree that EvE should be Free to play.
I have seen other MMO's go down that path and its not a pretty sight.
When other MMO's are Free to play they take so long to have a new update.
Where with EvE the updates are done nearly every month and that where the subs come into it.
The people in CCP need to get paid for their hard work and commitment to this great game.
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:47:53 -
[147] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote: All good suggestions and I agree.
I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.
Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.
Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one. Seriously, wtf?
No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be? It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project.
Well I hope you have someone else in charge of the economics because your wild expectations of revenue generated by MMO games will leave you sorely disappointed when reality sets in. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 01:32:45 -
[148] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote: All good suggestions and I agree.
I have made progress on the design framework to convert the current player base to a free to play system so people would feel that the effort put into the game for the past 12+ years has been worth it and entire new combat system risk / reward.
Rough estimate is that Titan capable character with a titan would be worth 120 bil isk / GTC singles = 2400 USD dollars in value using this as a baseline for all ship costs. That is just the value of one ship and one character 1/3 of an account at current market rates.
Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
For goodness sakes why don't you just go play, or freaking create yourself, this different, perfect game rather than try to change this one. Seriously, wtf?
No really, why the hell are you even still playing as this game is so far from the game you wish it to be? It is an interesting design challenge, the efforts might turn into a personal project. Well I hope you have someone else in charge of the economics because your wild expectations of revenue generated by MMO games will leave you sorely disappointed when reality sets in.
Most of the people that founded CCP left a few years ago including most of the founding design team. When I came back a few weeks ago if you read the entire thread I had bunch of other game devs play with me, and have had many try Eve over the years.
Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today.
Maybe Eve 2.0? or World of Space? :-) Space of Duty?
ADD++ one more: Eve of Legends :-) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25007
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 02:12:55 -
[149] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make.
Quote:The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today. CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market.
Niche products, they're a thing.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 02:25:38 -
[150] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make. Quote:The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today. CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market. Niche products, they're a thing.
The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.
I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.
Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve. |
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13824
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 04:16:51 -
[151] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make. And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
849
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 04:22:45 -
[152] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make. And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.
Yes please. I don't want no EA-style takeover of CCP and then proceeding to **** over the entire game with F2P and gold ships and ammo then shutting it down a year or two later because it isn't "producing enough revenue".
I love the EVE right now because I can't actually play on it every day like I used to and I can basically be even with my peers the moment I log on because of the skill system. ISK is basically free for me anyways with my style of flying.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
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Posted - 2015.09.08 06:44:05 -
[153] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make. And they should be, they are making a good living. Why risk that on some get-rich-quick fad? Iceland want's long-term jobs, specialized jobs that don't come easy for a small country. CCP is basically an indie game company, no big investors or corporate publishing office telling them what to do and how to please those investors with quick money before a shutdown and move to some other job... which could mean ex-employees leaving Iceland to do so. They seem to like what they do just for the sake of doing it, sets them apart from most game companies of today.
You should look into owns and sits on the board of CCP, the Swiss banking investment firm is very large.
What you are talking about has already been happening to CCP employees for the last 6 years. Do a search for CCP games layoffs.
Also if you want to educate yourself more someone published an interesting article about World of Darkness development.
You can see the interviews with x CCP employees who have first hand knowledge of the day to day development process.
Read and listen to all that decide for yourself.
Having witnessed the game in the last few weeks I have issue with some of the decisions but also recognize the improvements compared to when I started. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2329
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 07:35:27 -
[154] - Quote
The VC's wrote:To be fair, CCP would make more money on skins if most of the skins weren't so crap.
Or if combat involved actually looking at ships and not zooming out till they're invisible and playing the overview.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
203
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Posted - 2015.09.08 07:52:50 -
[155] - Quote
Verstal wrote:The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.
I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.
Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve.
When companies make bad strategic decisions (acquisitions, investing in new games that end up failing, over-extending resources) there are real world consequences. Lay-offs are the most obvious one to most of us.
The results of those bad decisions (that mostly did not relate to EVE) do not mean EVE, or the subscription model, is broken. They do mean that CCP senior management made some bad decisions over the past few years, many relating to other projects, and CCP staff paid the price. Welcome to the real world.
"Free-to-play" is totally different commercial model and one almost universally rejected by this community, mostly down to the "pay to win" aspect of it. Which even the most cursory of skims of numerous threads would show you. It could also introduce a potentially huge degree of volatility/variability into CCP's revenue stream, especially for a PC-only game. Investors (and accountants) generally don't like that. Bad for things like making payroll.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13824
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Posted - 2015.09.08 08:07:05 -
[156] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
You should look into owns and sits on the board of CCP, the Swiss banking investment firm is very large.
What you are talking about has already been happening to CCP employees for the last 6 years. Do a search for CCP games layoffs.
Also if you want to educate yourself more someone published an interesting article about World of Darkness development.
You can see the interviews with x CCP employees who have first hand knowledge of the day to day development process.
Read and listen to all that decide for yourself.
Having witnessed the game in the last few weeks I have issue with some of the decisions but also recognize the improvements compared to when I started.
CCP is a private company. Swiss banking? You speaking of the 20m bond on Dust? That was paid back, CCP isn't listed any longer, again. A very good move imo.
Layoffs happened after the incarna fiasco, followed by the Jita riots. There has also been hard financial times with the Icelandic bank, was world news in fact. I don't care what angry ex-employees have to say, if they were even actually employees, can never be sure with the interwebs. WoD was a failure, the WiS code used that almost killed EVE, leaked screenshots of WoD testing showing they could hardly get a few characters into a given area, just like EVE:WiS. What makes you think I haven't been reading and listening?
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1468
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Posted - 2015.09.08 08:41:23 -
[157] - Quote
Double post
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1468
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Posted - 2015.09.08 08:42:58 -
[158] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Reason for starting with Eve is that I love Eve as is but its not a model that produces enough money for todays game market it really never did. Yet CCP are still in business, and they appear to be relatively happy with the money that they make. Quote:The game will end up being very different then what you are playing right now but it would make more money then Eve does today. CCP are well aware of this, I believe the general consensus amongst CCP staff is that they're not willing to "sell out" and change the nature of Eve in order to compete in the more mainstream market. Niche products, they're a thing. The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements. I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad. Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve.
Buying back all the shares from investors is not a sign of losing money so stop talking rubbish. when eve goes f2p thats when they are losing money
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 11:19:23 -
[159] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered.
or get better friends
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Tweaker083
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Phoenix Company Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.09.08 11:38:14 -
[160] - Quote
The reason it is not F2P keeps me playing. Cant imagine all the F2P Trolls in this game there would be and even more Jita spammers.... o.O
If you dont wanna pay money for it, play something else or get PLEX with ISK.
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1624
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Posted - 2015.09.08 11:51:32 -
[161] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Last few days since returning I have been getting friends to join me from other games.
All are very excited but as soon as they find out about the training time they get discouraged then they see the subscriptions fees most are great gamers do the calculations and just go this isn't worth my time or effort or money. They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off." I try to warn them before they download it that it is a very different game but the reality doesn't hit them til they start actually playing.
Then I am left with people that are "I will afk train for my trial account and if I dont see anything I like in a few weeks after training I will not play it."
So I have been trying to think of a way for CCP to keep these people, they are good gamers, they are ready to spend money, and are excited about being in a space MMO.
I tell them they could buy characters with isk for plex's most don't want this they want to create a character they feel they started and own, named etc.
Has CCP talked about this at any point as a possibility? If so can I get a link.
go away
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
343
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 12:07:22 -
[162] - Quote
Yes, it would be possible, but I am strongly opposed to the idea. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25010
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 12:34:49 -
[163] - Quote
Verstal wrote:The content created over the last few years looks like the caving on this stance. Adding content and reiterating on the existing game is not "selling out", it's maintenance. "Selling out" would be catering to people like your friends that wish to play another type of game entirely.
The Eve formula of appealing to a small niche in the market is successful, and has been for over a decade. Changing to a f2p model, one that has already ruined or killed several games and their respective companies, when they have a successful formula is tantamount to sticking a gun in their mouth and pulling the trigger. The "Eve is dying" meme would become irrevocably true if they decided to do so, and the gaming world would be a lesser place for it.
Quote:They have lost money and laid off a lot of people over the last few years. They might not have a choice I haven't spoken to them. I did listen to the lead designers interview, read through all the old polygon layoff announcements.
I found it was interesting where his priorities were or what seemed to get him excited but it didn't build confidence in the direction he is taking. CCP seems to be more fragile then ever, makes me sad.
Also sad that another dev team today got shut down with old friends on it today, nothing to do with CCP but hearing that friends are looking for work with families always makes me sad. The real world is much harsher then Eve. There's this thing known as a global recession going on, people in every industry and in every country have been laid off; CCP are not unique in this regard as evidenced in your final paragraph.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Skeln Thargensen
katana spelunking trips
588
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:46:04 -
[164] - Quote
yeah i could see how this could be done. pay for training time etc.
it'd cause a riot tho.
forums. -áserious business.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12331
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:21:06 -
[165] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered.
The above bolded part (though true) suggests that Omar is an alien who has never actually met human beings
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3298
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:25:58 -
[166] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Yes, it would be possible, but I am strongly opposed to the idea.
Yeah, the question shouldn't be whether it would be possible, but whether it would be desirable or successful.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2562
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Posted - 2015.09.08 13:53:36 -
[167] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Funny. When I came to EVE after playing games like EverQuest and Earth & Beyond my response was 'Wait, you mean I don't have to drop sixty bucks for the game, and then thirty every six months on expansions in ADDITION to the monthly fee?!? NEAT!' The game and content updates are already free, so the monthly subscriptions are a more than reasonable cost to play.
In order for the game to survive as 'free to play', it will become 'pay to win'. Which will kill it.
I'd recommend your friends stop trying to negotiate for more and either take or leave what's offered. The above bolded part (though true) suggests that Omar is an alien who has never actually met human beings
Feh. I've met em. Can't say I much liked em. I just kind of have issues with a good deal not being good enough for some. Always more and stuff. Hell, when I was doing the cabbie thing I actually had people try to HAGGLE with me at the end of the ride. Experienced EVE players would immediately recognize the look I gave them in response as a yellow box.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
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Posted - 2015.09.08 14:45:46 -
[168] - Quote
Sorry have better data its more accurate then what you can find on the web for free, but even our paid for China data isn't considered sound. Also debatable if you want count extra revenue for Cafes where league is played in Korea or China, and or movie theaters they during the World Finals.
Regardless lets say those 'your' numbers are correct, CCP reported a 22mil dollar loss for its last public annual report or it was in a Polygon or some article I read I am not trying to build a case for CCP losses or I would be saving this info.
Found this as I would looking for the 2014 numbers for CCP, Interesting read.
https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-goes-dark-company-financials
This guys also trying to figure it out.
http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/p/ccp-half-year-financials-as-published.html
Regardless if it was good news CCP would be beating their chests as they have in the past, they are not. |
T' Elk
Under the Wings of Fury Bloodline.
702
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 15:24:24 -
[169] - Quote
Destroy EVE just so your scrub friends want to play it. Excellent idea! /s
~Badposter since FOOOOREEEEEVAAAAAR~
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2186
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Posted - 2015.09.08 15:35:41 -
[170] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Yes, it would be possible, but I am strongly opposed to the idea. Yeah, the question shouldn't be whether it would be possible, but whether it would be desirable or successful.
It really is only a question of financing at the end of the day. If CCP could get the same or better NET revenue (after potentially higher expense to cope with added load of course) then they might do it but I don't know how they could pull that one off. |
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Gauis Aldent
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
4
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Posted - 2015.09.08 15:44:59 -
[171] - Quote
Good article, and I agree that it would be a sign of desperation for EvE to go F2P. I expect it will happen some day, and that will be shortly before the end.
What I find interesting is this comment :
Quote:Lander flashes that grin again. "And if we suddenly want to bring in a ****-load more people, well, we could just do a free-to-play first-person shooter on PlayStation 3."
So, is that what valkyrie is? A related game intended to expose people to the eve universe from the side and drum up interest? How was dust for Eve numbers? Was there cross over from dust into eve?
Maybe Eve could use a couple more in universe (whether live like Dust or just an offline representation, I am not sure matters entirely) that could drum up interest? Hell, maybe a few storyline games centering around the lives of baseliners in the eve universe.... mix in a little lore, make a good story.... have people saying "You know theres another game where you get to actually BE a capsuleer"
That, I think, would be the best way to integrate F2P elements. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 15:48:11 -
[172] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Yes, it would be possible, but I am strongly opposed to the idea. Yeah, the question shouldn't be whether it would be possible, but whether it would be desirable or successful.
I am confident in my ability to design a system that would be desirable and profitable for the current player base following CCP current content pattern.
My goal is to prevent new players from running away from the game and giving Eve a chance and get hooked to invest in it like I did 10 years ago.
The percentage of players that are willing to invest after 2-6 months has always been very low using the term New Player Retention or NPR for short I estimate that it has hovered around 5-10% for 2 months and drops below 5% for 6 months, and less then 1% for more then a year.
This is my best guess at this point.
Newer players are the fundamental fuel for an MMO, if you chart entertainment value per dollar over the past 12 years for games and then chart Eve's progress along this curve you can say its stayed flat because they have stuck to the core concepts. Player tolerance for these concept has gone down not up, which is why the player base is declining.
CCP designed a game for very hard core people to enjoy (like me and you) we all love it but this is very fragile since so few players survive the new player experience.
CCP also has always had this issue of players effecting their customers as we are all in sandbox, Expert players can ruin the excitement for Eve very quickly losing that customer forever. This could be customer that would have been willing to spend up to 500-1000 dollars on the product for subscription fees.
You can also make the argument that people paid for the right and ability to take customers away from CCP and that these customers are more loyal and have made up for these losses.
Interesting for me to consider the new player experience in this light for me as I have always tried to create a system that gives all players a fighting chance or level playing field and the ability to out play someone using dexterity and game knowledge.
ADD++ Also interesting that CCP has put so much of their companies future in the hands of its own customers. Powerful feeling for a customer but very risky for CCP. You could say Fanfest and the CSM are just extensions of CCP that pay for the right to control this universe. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1474
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 15:53:54 -
[173] - Quote
your f2p idea is just sh!t, its what happens to failed mmo's, your logic is flawed "your friends have money to spend but dont want to spend on a subscription" everything you have described is a pretty clear and perfect example of a game thats not right for your friends, you just refuse to accept it
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
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Posted - 2015.09.08 16:31:07 -
[174] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:your f2p idea is just sh!t, its what happens to failed mmo's, your logic is flawed "your friends have money to spend but dont want to spend on a subscription" everything you have described is a pretty clear and perfect example of a game thats not right for your friends, you just refuse to accept it
Its not just my friends / co workers it like 99.99% of the game playing population. :-) I do understand the pattern you speak too many games have gone free to play and have been ruined.
Just so you know my personal feeling is that I would rather see Eve die then ruin the current game by large scale changes.
The largest player controlled orgs are goons, brave, red/blue combined, and test all these orgs have teams of people that work very hard to create game play for CCP / Eve giving players a wealth of knowledge to help them play.
They have all created tools to manage these player orgs which is amazing to me, you could say these current top teams are more powerful then the fiction than CCP has create over the years. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2550
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 16:31:15 -
[175] - Quote
I did not read this all, way too much but a few things to note:
1) The 90m loss is not really a loss, people keep thinking it is, but its a write off of money already spent over the years on code they did not use for tax poruposes.
2) layoffs are normal
3) Yes eve seems to be down players, welcome to a repair and rebuild phase. You will lose customers as you attempt to repair and then build on the new repairs. will things tablize and grow? time will tell
4) no eve doesn;t need to be free to play. this idea is stupid,
That should cover it
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1475
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Posted - 2015.09.08 19:15:36 -
[176] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:your f2p idea is just sh!t, its what happens to failed mmo's, your logic is flawed "your friends have money to spend but dont want to spend on a subscription" everything you have described is a pretty clear and perfect example of a game thats not right for your friends, you just refuse to accept it Its not just my friends / co workers it like 99.99% of the game playing population. :-) I do understand the pattern you speak too many games have gone free to play and have been ruined. Just so you know my personal feeling is that I would rather see Eve die then ruin the current game by large scale changes. The largest player controlled orgs are goons, brave, red/blue combined, and test all these orgs have teams of people that work very hard to create game play for CCP / Eve giving players a wealth of knowledge to help them play. They have all created tools to manage these player orgs which is amazing to me, you could say these current top teams are more powerful then the fiction than CCP has create over the years.
99.9% of the gameplaying population? where did you even get that statistic from?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Tank Murdock Jnr
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:22:47 -
[177] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I am confident in my ability to design a system that would be desirable and profitable for the current player base following CCP current content pattern.
CCP should hire you. You seem very knowledgable and capable. |
Tank Murdock Jnr
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:23:34 -
[178] - Quote
Tank Murdock Jnr wrote:Verstal wrote:I am confident in my ability to design a system that would be desirable and profitable for the current player base following CCP current content pattern. CCP should hire you. You seem very knowledgable and capable.
Wait, no they shouldn't and no you don't. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:38:08 -
[179] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Sorry have better data its more accurate then what you can find on the web for free, but even our paid for China data isn't considered sound. Also debatable if you want count extra revenue for Cafes where league is played in Korea or China, and or movie theaters they during the World Finals. Regardless lets say those 'your' numbers are correct, CCP reported a 22mil dollar loss for its last public annual report or it was in a Polygon or some article I read I am not trying to build a case for CCP losses or I would be saving this info. Found this as I would looking for the 2014 numbers for CCP, Interesting read. https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-goes-dark-company-financials This guys also trying to figure it out. http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/p/ccp-half-year-financials-as-published.html Regardless if it was good news CCP would be beating their chests as they have in the past, they are not.
This has nothing to with my point. You claimed that other f2p games were generating revenues of over 4 billion and 11 billion USD respectively when the ENTIRE MMO gaming revenue worldwide is pegged at about 8 billion USD. And they are not "my" numbers they are from reputable gaming and tech news sources as opposed to some "guy also trying to figure it out."
If you have this "better data" than what is available from gaming companies announced figures then I suggest you share it. What possible reason would a company have to underreport their income by billions of USD? If they did then I am certain that the taxing authority of their home country would like to have a chat with them.
Quit acting like you know so much. Prove it or just admit that you pulled the numbers out of thin air. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:41:55 -
[180] - Quote
Tank Murdock Jnr wrote:Tank Murdock Jnr wrote:Verstal wrote:I am confident in my ability to design a system that would be desirable and profitable for the current player base following CCP current content pattern. CCP should hire you. You seem very knowledgable and capable. Wait, no they shouldn't and no you don't.
Move to Iceland? I can't do that sorry. Iceland is very pretty, but to far from all the talent you need to make a top tier game and already on a great team. Maybe UK or Germany if they had offices. |
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2015.09.08 19:48:20 -
[181] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Move to Iceland? I can't do that sorry. Iceland is very pretty, but to far from all the talent you need to make a top tier game.
Is that s subtle dig at CCP?
Also to answer your questions, yes it is possible. The better question is if it's a good idea (No). |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
181
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 19:53:51 -
[182] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired.
If you worked for me and prioritized using as close to 100% of the hardware capabilities over making something that the niche customerbase wants in a final product, I would fire you.
The product tailored to your customer comes first, not maxing hardware just for the sake of it. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25017
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 20:29:05 -
[183] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Maybe UK or Germany if they had offices. Last time I checked Newcastle was still in the UK, and CCP have an office there.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 21:02:48 -
[184] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Verstal wrote:Move to Iceland? I can't do that sorry. Iceland is very pretty, but to far from all the talent you need to make a top tier game. Is that s subtle dig at CCP? Also to answer your questions, yes it is possible. The better question is if it's a good idea (No).
Not at all, Iceland is a smaller game dev community. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
182
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 21:22:39 -
[185] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Not at all, Iceland is a smaller game dev community.
You do realize CCP has two offices in the US, one in China, one in Iceland, and one in the UK, right?
Not everyone works at a company's corporate headquarters |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 21:27:37 -
[186] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Verstal wrote:Another interesting way of thinking about it based on server bandwidth if the current hardware can support 100k or X players on at one time, then the current design of the product is 33.3% of what it should be. If I was designing a modern day ps4 or PC game and only used 33% of the hardware capabilities I would get fired. If you worked for me and prioritized using as close to 100% of the hardware capabilities over making something that the niche customerbase wants in a final product, I would fire you. The product tailored to your customer comes first, not maxing hardware just for the sake of it.
Its a interesting idea or method to measure design efficiency, you do not design to waste resources. I have no idea of many resources are being wasted on the current design.
Here is a small example, managing a POS:
CCP have simplified how towers are fueled over the last decade where you take the original resources and combine them in a fuel block so that it is 1 object.
By not having to count down 6 clocks per tower (what ever it was) reducing it to 1 CCP reduced the management overhead on the server making it more efficient on the server.
Also you could say it offered a simplification of the game play, and easier for a player to fuel a tower. I am trying to start debate that this was a good or bad idea just an example of to reduce server overhead with a design change.
I would ask you who is the CCP customer? All I have to look at is what direction the content is taking but what is your point of view?
I see this: Ship Skins, Vanity Items for Characters that are represented by a 2d image for most of the population, new ships, new items, new mechanics, new things to do with RMT.
Each of these categories are targeted at a part of the current customer base. I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 21:35:23 -
[187] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Verstal wrote:Not at all, Iceland is a smaller game dev community. You do realize CCP has two offices in the US, one in China, one in Iceland, and one in the UK, right? Not everyone works at a company's corporate headquarters
I have been to the Shanghai Office so I knew about that one, the food was awesome. I haven't looked into it to deeply but good information. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
182
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 21:52:38 -
[188] - Quote
Verstal wrote: Its a interesting idea or method to measure design efficiency, you do not design to waste resources. I have no idea of many resources are being wasted on the current design.
Here is a small example, managing a POS:
CCP have simplified how towers are fueled over the last decade where you take the original resources and combine them in a fuel block so that it is 1 object.
By not having to count down 6 clocks per tower (what ever it was) reducing it to 1 CCP reduced the management overhead on the server making it more efficient on the server.
Also you could say it offered a simplification of the game play, and easier for a player to fuel a tower. I am trying to start debate that this was a good or bad idea just an example of to reduce server overhead with a design change.
You completely missed my point. Players liked the POS fuel change, so who cares what impact it has on the servers? Again, you think about the benefit to the customer before you think about raw overhead of physical resources.
You can't make business decisions by thinking like an engineer/programmer (like you are).
Quote: I would ask you who is the CCP customer? All I have to look at is what direction the content is taking but what is your point of view?
I see this: Ship Skins, Vanity Items for Characters that are represented by a 2d image for most of the population, new ships, new items, new mechanics, new things to do with RMT.
Each of these categories are targeted at a part of the current customer base. I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?
The typical EVE player is the kind of person who would spend hours building model trains in their basement. They see EVE more as a hobby than a video game. They want a form of entertainment where they can work for something of their own choosing. They dislike instant gratification. They dislike someone being able to feel like they are unique and special simply because they finished a pre-set game mechanic. They want you to have to actually work for what you get.
You want to play for free? Great! Prove you can earn enough ISK to buy a PLEX every month. You can't prove you can earn that much in game? You don't deserve to play for free.
We see EVE as a truly unique game within the MMO universe and don't want it to turn into an easymode themepark spaceship game. I personally pay for three accounts every month. I want to see EVE keep going and not turn into WoW in space (as it would if the barrier to entry was easier/cheaper/etc). I'm happy contributing my $36/mo to CCP to help keep EVE up. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 22:05:12 -
[189] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Verstal wrote: Its a interesting idea or method to measure design efficiency, you do not design to waste resources. I have no idea of many resources are being wasted on the current design.
Here is a small example, managing a POS:
CCP have simplified how towers are fueled over the last decade where you take the original resources and combine them in a fuel block so that it is 1 object.
By not having to count down 6 clocks per tower (what ever it was) reducing it to 1 CCP reduced the management overhead on the server making it more efficient on the server.
Also you could say it offered a simplification of the game play, and easier for a player to fuel a tower. I am trying to start debate that this was a good or bad idea just an example of to reduce server overhead with a design change.
You completely missed my point. Players liked the POS fuel change, so who cares what impact it has on the servers? Again, you think about the benefit to the customer before you think about raw overhead of physical resources. You can't make business decisions by thinking like an engineer/programmer (like you are). Quote: I would ask you who is the CCP customer? All I have to look at is what direction the content is taking but what is your point of view?
I see this: Ship Skins, Vanity Items for Characters that are represented by a 2d image for most of the population, new ships, new items, new mechanics, new things to do with RMT.
Each of these categories are targeted at a part of the current customer base. I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?
The typical EVE player is the kind of person who would spend hours building model trains in their basement. They see EVE more as a hobby than a video game. They want a form of entertainment where they can work for something of their own choosing. They dislike instant gratification. They dislike someone being able to feel like they are unique and special simply because they finished a pre-set game mechanic. They want you to have to actually work for what you get. You want to play for free? Great! Prove you can earn enough ISK to buy a PLEX every month. You can't prove you can earn that much in game? You don't deserve to play for free. We see EVE as a truly unique game within the MMO universe and don't want it to turn into an easymode themepark spaceship game. I personally pay for three accounts every month. I want to see EVE keep going and not turn into WoW in space (as it would if the barrier to entry was easier/cheaper/etc). I'm happy contributing my $36/mo to CCP to help keep EVE up.
So my point - Is the content that has been created focused on your description of the players that play Eve?
My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer = They call us Technical Directors these days since we can touch so much of the product to improve the quality or build a small part of the game by ourselves with our own hands with out breaking the entire game while doing so. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
227
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 22:34:57 -
[190] - Quote
im not sure how to comment on the stuff i read.....
So ill just leave this here....
OP you are an idiot and your friends should try to at least quit wearing pampers and try pull-ups. |
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1475
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 22:35:44 -
[191] - Quote
Verstal wrote:My role is a hybrid very rare
i love this! i wanna be a hybrid very rare
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
183
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 22:58:06 -
[192] - Quote
Verstal wrote:So my point - Is the content that has been created focused on your description of the players that play Eve?
My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer = They call us Technical Directors these days since we can touch so much of the product to improve the quality or build a small part of the game by ourselves with our own hands with out breaking the entire game while doing so.
For the most part, yes. They have missed the mark with a few changes, but have done a great job.
EVE isn't a small game though. They have to be able to handle a massive battle including 7000 people in the same system of the course of 20 hours. If 200 people decide to jump bridge five systems away, the server cluster needs to be able to handle it on the fly.
My issue with what you said (as an ex-programmer now in finance) is that you started with "this is what they are doing wrong". You didn't start by trying to understand what the EVE player base wants.
Start with the goal. You started this thread by saying CCP should do something because other MMOs do it. You didn't start by trying to get what the typical EVE players want. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 00:45:02 -
[193] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Verstal wrote:So my point - Is the content that has been created focused on your description of the players that play Eve?
My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer = They call us Technical Directors these days since we can touch so much of the product to improve the quality or build a small part of the game by ourselves with our own hands with out breaking the entire game while doing so. For the most part, yes. They have missed the mark with a few changes, but have done a great job. EVE isn't a small game though. They have to be able to handle a massive battle including 7000 people in the same system of the course of 20 hours. If 200 people decide to jump bridge five systems away, the server cluster needs to be able to handle it on the fly. My issue with what you said (as an ex-programmer now in finance) is that you started with "this is what they are doing wrong". You didn't start by trying to understand what the EVE player base wants. Start with the goal. You started this thread by saying CCP should do something because other MMOs do it. You didn't start by trying to get what the typical EVE players want.
Not true been playing Eve 10+ years I know what I love about the game and started by trying to bring fellow game devs and friends to play the game recently, went through the entire new player experience myself on trial account.
Now thinking about how this fragile system can be changed to allow new players to fall in love with Eve with out ruining the game for myself or players like you is an interesting design exercise, which is all it is for me.
If you have ways to keep new players for more then 3 months they would be great to hear.
One simple idea could be to extend trial accounts with the same restrictions they have now no time limit or until they reach a certain skill point threshold, like X mil SP.
The other good idea I still like is changing the entire NPC system to be using the 3D characters instead of the 2D images that are based on the 3D characters to give the players mission briefings, and of course start and end the missions with a 10-20-30 intro - exit cinematic based on the already created storyline so players would experience what they see in the CCP promo videos quickly.
Slight changes that might keep a few more percentage of players long enough to get hooked, and these ideas appeal to me as well because I ran though all the content years ago and this would give me a reason to do it again.
When I listen to the interviews, presentations from CCP about design I feel a lack of confidence in the speakers. Which seems odd to me. Research continues. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 01:48:30 -
[194] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
"Not true been playing Eve 10+ years..." I
"I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?"
You seem to have a very hybrid rare interpretation of facts.
Have you played for ten years or been on an extended break?
You couch yourself as a gaming insider but seem to understand only the engineering side of game design forgetting market analysis and/or customer service. You certainly have no concept of the size of the marketplace as you think LoL generates 11.6 billion USD revenue per year.
Your little thought experiment may interest you as a theory; but, again, I implore you to move on and begin creating this magnificent MMO of your dreams - just leave EVE the hell alone. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 01:56:11 -
[195] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:
"Not true been playing Eve 10+ years..." I
"I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?"
You seem to have a very hybrid rare interpretation of facts. Have you played for ten years or been on an extended break? You couch yourself as a gaming insider but seem to understand only the engineering side of game design forgetting market analysis and/or customer service. You certainly have no concept of the size of the marketplace as you think LoL generates 11.6 billion USD revenue per year. Your little thought experiment may interest you as a theory; but, again, I implore you to move on and begin creating this magnificent MMO of your dreams - just leave EVE the hell alone.
http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/24/dota-2-makes-18m-per-month-for-valve-but-league-of-legends-makes-that-much-every-5-days/
Read that do the math I might be off by a few billion you could be very right and it should discount everything I have said. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 02:14:51 -
[196] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:
"Not true been playing Eve 10+ years..." I
"I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?"
You seem to have a very hybrid rare interpretation of facts. Have you played for ten years or been on an extended break? You couch yourself as a gaming insider but seem to understand only the engineering side of game design forgetting market analysis and/or customer service. You certainly have no concept of the size of the marketplace as you think LoL generates 11.6 billion USD revenue per year. Your little thought experiment may interest you as a theory; but, again, I implore you to move on and begin creating this magnificent MMO of your dreams - just leave EVE the hell alone. http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/24/dota-2-makes-18m-per-month-for-valve-but-league-of-legends-makes-that-much-every-5-days/ Read that do the math I might be off by a few billion you could be very right and it should discount everything I have said. ++Sorry
- 864 million a year for league not including the entire infrastructure that support League all the bars and bongs in Korea and China.
- 288 million from Dota2 had a 18 mill prize pool for the big event of the year. So the kids that won IT5 got more money then CCP as an entire org in profit as prize money. Holly ****...
Yeah, what's a few billion? Also, you are throwing all the MOBA's in with the classic MMORPG.
So you want to make EVE into a MOBA? Change the core game that one can spend months and years building something or gaining territory or whatever - hello sandbox - into a series of half-hour, guided capture the flag, encounters?
Why?
I try to understand people and their motivations (I get paid to do it everyday), but I honestly don't know what to make of your ramblings.
Oh and this little nugget from the end of the article certainly means CCP should jump all over this opportunity. <---- FYI - sarcasm.
"While gamers are spending a ton on the top MOBAs, itGÇÖs unlikely that the market can support five or six games beyond the top-tier earners."
Can we now agree that this is not what will improve EVE? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 02:22:07 -
[197] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:
"Not true been playing Eve 10+ years..." I
"I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?"
You seem to have a very hybrid rare interpretation of facts. Have you played for ten years or been on an extended break? You couch yourself as a gaming insider but seem to understand only the engineering side of game design forgetting market analysis and/or customer service. You certainly have no concept of the size of the marketplace as you think LoL generates 11.6 billion USD revenue per year. Your little thought experiment may interest you as a theory; but, again, I implore you to move on and begin creating this magnificent MMO of your dreams - just leave EVE the hell alone. http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/24/dota-2-makes-18m-per-month-for-valve-but-league-of-legends-makes-that-much-every-5-days/ Read that do the math I might be off by a few billion you could be very right and it should discount everything I have said. ++Sorry
- 864 million a year for league not including the entire infrastructure that support League all the bars and bongs in Korea and China.
- 288 million from Dota2 had a 18 mill prize pool for the big event of the year. So the kids that won IT5 got more money then CCP as an entire org in profit as prize money. Holly ****...
Yeah, what's a few billion? Also, you are throwing all the MOBA's in with the classic MMORPG. So you want to make EVE into a MOBA? Change the core game that one can spend months and years building something or gaining territory or whatever - hello sandbox - into a series of half-hour, guided capture the flag, encounters? Why? I try to understand people and their motivations (I get paid to do it everyday), but I honestly don't know what to make of your ramblings. Oh and this little nugget from the end of the article certainly means CCP should jump all over this opportunity. <---- FYI - sarcasm. "While gamers are spending a ton on the top MOBAs, itGÇÖs unlikely that the market can support five or six games beyond the top-tier earners." Can we now agree that this is not what will improve EVE?
I posted some of the ideas to help CCP, I am going to keep doing it because its fun. You do have the option to contribute to them and or ignore the thread. I feel confident they would increase the player experience with out changing much.
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 02:27:04 -
[198] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:
"Not true been playing Eve 10+ years..." I
"I have only started playing again for a few weeks did I miss something?"
You seem to have a very hybrid rare interpretation of facts. Have you played for ten years or been on an extended break? You couch yourself as a gaming insider but seem to understand only the engineering side of game design forgetting market analysis and/or customer service. You certainly have no concept of the size of the marketplace as you think LoL generates 11.6 billion USD revenue per year. Your little thought experiment may interest you as a theory; but, again, I implore you to move on and begin creating this magnificent MMO of your dreams - just leave EVE the hell alone. http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/24/dota-2-makes-18m-per-month-for-valve-but-league-of-legends-makes-that-much-every-5-days/ Read that do the math I might be off by a few billion you could be very right and it should discount everything I have said. ++Sorry
- 864 million a year for league not including the entire infrastructure that support League all the bars and bongs in Korea and China.
- 288 million from Dota2 had a 18 mill prize pool for the big event of the year. So the kids that won IT5 got more money then CCP as an entire org in profit as prize money. Holly ****...
Yeah, what's a few billion? Also, you are throwing all the MOBA's in with the classic MMORPG. So you want to make EVE into a MOBA? Change the core game that one can spend months and years building something or gaining territory or whatever - hello sandbox - into a series of half-hour, guided capture the flag, encounters? Why? I try to understand people and their motivations (I get paid to do it everyday), but I honestly don't know what to make of your ramblings. Oh and this little nugget from the end of the article certainly means CCP should jump all over this opportunity. <---- FYI - sarcasm. "While gamers are spending a ton on the top MOBAs, itGÇÖs unlikely that the market can support five or six games beyond the top-tier earners." Can we now agree that this is not what will improve EVE? I posted some of the ideas to help CCP, I am going to keep doing it because its fun. You do have the option to contribute to them and or ignore the thread. I feel confident they would increase the player experience with out changing much.
YOU WANT TO CHANGE FREAKING EVERYTHING!!!!!
EDIT: btw If this is a troll, then you win - please stop. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13847
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 02:35:03 -
[199] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Read and listen to all that decide for yourself.
Verstal wrote:Move to Iceland? I can't do that sorry. Iceland is very pretty, but to far from all the talent you need to make a top tier game and already on a great team. Maybe UK or Germany if they had offices. Wut? I gotta say here it's not me lacking in reading and listening to decide for myself, your posts just show a horrible knowledge about CCP and this game. You should apply your suggestion to yourself, and maybe one day come to a rational understanding on the topic of EVE & CCP in general, at least basic stuff.
Iceland, China, North America, and I think two in the UK. And they don't do all the work from their HQ. They have talent around the world.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 02:50:05 -
[200] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Verstal wrote:Read and listen to all that decide for yourself. Verstal wrote:Move to Iceland? I can't do that sorry. Iceland is very pretty, but to far from all the talent you need to make a top tier game and already on a great team. Maybe UK or Germany if they had offices. Wut? I gotta say here it's not me lacking in reading and listening to decide for myself, your posts just show a horrible knowledge about CCP and this game. You should apply your suggestion to yourself, and maybe one day come to a rational understanding on the topic of EVE & CCP in general, at least basic stuff. Iceland, China, North America, and I think two in the UK. And they don't do all the work from their HQ. They have talent around the world.
Yes convincing my wife and kids to move to another country and leave the life they have now is a very low probability, I could do the design and prototyping work from here but I already have a job with a good salary and benefits.
CCP gets some free work because I love Eve like to help them and it has nothing to do with the work I do for a living. |
|
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
468
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 03:10:16 -
[201] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
A lot of people get very excited by the videos of eve and then get hit with reality and give up because they know they cant catch up.
What? Catch up to what, you can get into PVP or missions or whatever you want to do and be successful from your very first day. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
906
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 07:51:45 -
[202] - Quote
I guess CCP could make a new game based on EVE, using existing assets, that is centered around fair fights. Something like a MOBA or something that uses rules similar to the Alliance Tournament. That would probably be more sensible than trying to force EVE over to F2P. It still wouldn't pull in DOTA/LOL money though. Because it would still be spaceships. The masses want stupid looking characters in a cartoony style. |
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 08:14:26 -
[203] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP also has always had this issue of players effecting their customers as we are all in sandbox, Expert players can ruin the excitement for Eve very quickly losing that customer forever. This could be customer that would have been willing to spend up to 500-1000 dollars on the product for subscription fees.
This is actually not true. Many EvE players, including myself, tryed out the game multiple times before they finally stayed to play it for a longer period of time. I came back for the exact reason that, after i saw how complex EvE was, no other game out there could live up to that standard.
People stayed in the game even when there was no new player experiance.
Can the new player experiance be improved ? Sure. Do we want to change the game drastically just to keep some new players that would otherwise leave ? Hell no.
Verstal wrote:My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer = They call us Technical Directors these days since we can touch so much of the product to improve the quality or build a small part of the game by ourselves with our own hands with out breaking the entire game while doing so.
The thread title still talks about F2P which is a pretey drastical change that would effect ALL parts of the game. As many people (including CCP) have stated multiple times over the years, this would break the entire game. Now take a look at your own definition of a good "Technical Director".
Throughout this thread, starting with your opening post, you just put random ideas in this thread without thinking them through first. You keep talking in vague visions instead of finished solid concepts. Im a software designer myself and I can tell you : You realy do still have a lot to learn. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1478
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 08:25:37 -
[204] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP also has always had this issue of players effecting their customers as we are all in sandbox, Expert players can ruin the excitement for Eve very quickly losing that customer forever. This could be customer that would have been willing to spend up to 500-1000 dollars on the product for subscription fees.
do you think f2p games are any different? all f2p games are is competition on who has the biggest credit card balance, these "coiners" or "expert players" still go around roflstomping everything its not just in eve its every game.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25997
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 08:35:21 -
[205] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I posted some of the ideas to help CCP None of your ideas help them because they are so completely out of touch with the reality of this game and of gaming in general.
Quote:My role is a hybrid very rare - Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 08:57:19 -
[206] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product.
I think we got a little Chris Roberts here.
...
Sorry couldnt stop myself. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
439
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 09:08:01 -
[207] - Quote
Verstal wrote: They actually get angry at CCP saying things like, "what a scam or rip off.".
Then this isn't a game for them. Make them try the trial, and if they find it interesting they'll stay, otherwise they'll leave.
I'd rather have fellow patient gamers in EVE than impatient ones who want everything served at their feet.
|
Aoife Fraoch
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 09:21:32 -
[208] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Tippia wrote:Actually, that role is very common. You see it all the time in Kickstarer spiels, where a guy has some grandiose idea and some experience in tinkering, but no idea how to actually make something that works, much less a compelling product. I think we got a little Chris Roberts here. ... Sorry couldnt stop myself.
Don't apologise, the comparison is apt. Well, except Chris Roberts has charisma.
And probably can at least keep his market size numbers straight. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13852
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 10:37:13 -
[209] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP gets some free work because I love Eve You work for CCP?
As for "love", are you sure it's not like my last GF that luvd me because of what she thought she could change me into? You know, that stuff always works out really well ... Maybe you should think about joining your friends in that f2p game if you don't feel CCP is doing the right thing with EVE. Though I suppose that may mean you'd need to quit working for CCP Our loss I suppose
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Hiren Vekaria
True Descendants Of Dragonis The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 10:40:31 -
[210] - Quote
the balance will be disturbed. |
|
Johan Civire
Flux Technologies Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor
965
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:22:41 -
[211] - Quote
i ask my money back for all those years. Because the are making the bad dissensions and there are losing money its not my fault that the f*ck it up so i want my money back.
I dont ask for ftp game i ask to play my game when en how i want and thats it. The give me the tools i play it. If thats a problem some people need to reconsider there options in this game. Or play a other game. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1478
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 11:30:31 -
[212] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:i ask my money back for all those years. Because the are making the bad dissensions and there are losing money its not my fault that the f*ck it up so i want my money back.
I dont ask for ftp game i ask to play my game when en how i want and thats it. The give me the tools i play it. If thats a problem some people need to reconsider there options in this game. Or play a other game.
hmmm i dont think anyone gets subscription money back from previous months because the new vision of company does no longer appeal to your vision. the joy of subscriptions are you are not tied to a contract so if your unhappy go away and get over it because you wont get any money back for using the service for so many years.
i really hate entitled idiots like yourself
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
556
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 15:09:39 -
[213] - Quote
Asking for money back because current does not represent past is a strange point...
I mean if you were investing for futures instead of current returns, I can see the dilemma.
Lets take an example. Movies. How about the Matrix.
You pay for first one, cause is good.
Pay for second one and often can leave satisfied, but disappointed at cliffhanger ending.
Pay for third and many are disappointed.
Because the sequel is bad, you demand refund for being satisfied initially??? You got what you paid for...
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
|
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 15:23:54 -
[214] - Quote
Tweaker083 wrote:The reason it is not F2P keeps me playing. Cant imagine all the F2P Trolls in this game there would be and even more Jita spammers.... o.O
If you dont wanna pay money for it, play something else or get PLEX with ISK.
Pretty much, but the thing about PLEX is that the price has been increasing over the years (I only hear whispers of the time where it was around 350 million or something like that) precisely because more and more players have the capacity to accumulate funds at a fast enough pace to buy PLEX in bulk. For example, it's a cake-walk for anyone who regular runs Incursions to buy PLEX easy if they're good enough at it. |
Arla Sarain
643
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 15:25:04 -
[215] - Quote
You are not going to attract any new players to the game that's 12 years old and where access to piloting ships is time locked.
Why invest time skilling up to fly a Golem and other blingy top of the line or even the meta stuff, if the game might die any moment. Sure, we know it won't die spontaneously, but the newbro has no guarantee of that.
There is little trust that can be given to EVE.
There is little reason to start playing EvE now, outside of feeding your own curiosity. I've been here for almost 600days and I still can't fly T3Cs, only just trained up HAC and LOGI IV. Sure I could have gotten them sooner if I focused the training. But it's like "have sov or have fun". You either have fun exploring the innards of this game OR you chase everyone else, being part of a race you will never win.
You can't argue that "being PvP capable in a week old rifter" is an incentive to stay. It's merely an incentive to try out the game. With the span of 1 week how many newbros will find themselves in a situation where they are tackling something a rifter...? And apart from that, what else do they get to do apart from missions.
There is also the decade old argument about "instant gratification" or some BS, which seems as a biased concern coming solely from people who are worried that the time they invested will suddenly be largely devalued if other newer people didn't have to go through the same ****** "waiting game" ritual. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 15:49:39 -
[216] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:You are not going to attract any new players to the game that's 12 years old and where access to piloting ships is time locked.
Why invest time skilling up to fly a Golem and other blingy top of the line or even the meta stuff, if the game might die any moment. Sure, we know it won't die spontaneously, but the newbro has no guarantee of that.
There is little trust that can be given to EVE.
There is little reason to start playing EvE now, outside of feeding your own curiosity. I've been here for almost 600days and I still can't fly T3Cs, only just trained up HAC and LOGI IV. Sure I could have gotten them sooner if I focused the training. But it's like "have sov or have fun". You either have fun exploring the innards of this game OR you chase everyone else, being part of a race you will never win.
You can't argue that "being PvP capable in a week old rifter" is an incentive to stay. It's merely an incentive to try out the game. With the span of 1 week how many newbros will find themselves in a situation where they are tackling something a rifter...? And apart from that, what else do they get to do apart from missions.
There is also the decade old argument about "instant gratification" or some BS, which seems as a biased concern coming solely from people who are worried that the time they invested will suddenly be largely devalued if other newer people didn't have to go through the same ****** "waiting game" ritual.
Yes most of the people that try the game leave about 95% a very specific player with a very specific type personality stays for more then 3 months.
The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download.
None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong. Some of the ideas are dedicated to older players to help newer players, and a new payoff for concurring null sec.
Other ideas are for people that are in the first stages of addiction to the product and want to accelerate the race but also dont want to be stuck with legacy history that comes from purchasing a character.
All the ideas have a financial upside for CCP, I feel the longer a new player continues to login the more chance they will find a gameplay style they will enjoy and be willing to pay for.
How do you feel about those ideas would they have helped enjoy the product more during the 1-3 months?
For the contributors to this thread, I would ask a few things open up the rookie chat help window and leave it open for a few days, contribute to helping new players or just watch the questions that come through, it should give you a better perspective on what new players experience. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26001
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:04:19 -
[217] - Quote
Verstal wrote:The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download. The only way of doing that is to not run missions since they have nothing to do with the story GÇö they're just a way to regulate how fast currency is injected into the in-game market. EVE is not a game about consuming a narrative; it's about creating one. Missions GÇö indeed anything involving NPCs GÇö are in every way utterly and completely irrelevant to this end.
Quote:None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong. The whole idea of F2P GÇö you know, the topic of the thread GÇö would, as would many of the ideas you've suggested, in particular everything you label as GÇ£clean slateGÇ¥. The rest simply don't have anything to do with the topic you've now swung towards since they don't address any kind of new-player concern.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:19:38 -
[218] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:The goal of the ideas on page 1 are to give the players an experience that will keep them excited and a little eye candy and emotional pay off running missions and continuing the story that is given in the intro movie and or hype video that my have inspired the download. The only way of doing that is to not run missions since they have nothing to do with the story GÇö they're just a way to regulate how fast currency is injected into the in-game market. EVE is not a game about consuming a narrative; it's about creating one. Missions GÇö indeed anything involving NPCs GÇö are in every way utterly and completely irrelevant to this end. Quote:None of the ideas should "break" Eve Online, but I could be wrong. The whole idea of F2P GÇö you know, the topic of the thread GÇö would, as would many of the ideas you've suggested, in particular everything you label as GÇ£clean slateGÇ¥. The rest simply don't have anything to do with the topic you've now swung towards since they don't address any kind of new-player concern.
How many years have you been playing the game?
Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been.
When you start this game you have no idea about what NPC's contribute to the overall game. How could know by the information given?
I know you are smart person and have contributed a lot but your letting your own understanding of the game get in the way of seeing the game as new players do.
Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years, you have the components of that level of thinking, but a core to being a professional game designer / developer is taking what you know and throwing it away. Then looking at your product and or ideas with fresh eyes.
This is very hard to do for most people even me when I am in the heat of the battle. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26001
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:25:29 -
[219] - Quote
Verstal wrote:How many years have you been playing the game?
Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been. It's about the same as it has always been, except that new players have far more information and guidance GÇö in and out of game GÇö than ever before.
Quote:How could know by the information given? By reading up on the game for, oh, 5 minutes before starting to play. It's fairly obvious by how player activity is given all the focus every time the game is mentioned, especially in the huge splashy stories that make an international media impact.
Quote:Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years If these are the kinds of harmful ideas you come up with, and which you have taught them to come up with, they should probably ask for their money back.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:28:43 -
[220] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:How many years have you been playing the game?
Take a deep breath, take a large step back, and clear your mind of everything you know of Eve and look at the game with those eyes. You have taken your first step to being a game designer or game developer not just a consumer / player. Go watch Rookie chat for a few days like I have been. It's about the same as it has always been, except that new players have far more information and guidance GÇö in and out of game GÇö than ever before. Quote:How could know by the information given? By reading up on the game for, oh, 5 minutes before starting to play. It's fairly obvious by how player activity is given all the focus every time the game is mentioned, especially in the huge splashy stories that make an international media impact. Quote:Trust me on this I have trained game designers for 15+ years If these are the kinds of harmful ideas you come up with, and which you have taught them to come up with, they should probably ask for their money back. You keep throwing out all these ideas without any consideration of whether or not they work for the purpose ofGǪ well, anything, really, but definitely for the purpose of making EVE a better game. The fundamental issue you seem to have missed is that EVE is a niche game. You also seem to have missed the fact that this isn't a bad thing.
Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26001
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:29:59 -
[221] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? Maybe you missed the answer: my play time does not affect how poorly thought out and out of place your ideas are.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:37:19 -
[222] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? Maybe you missed the answer: my play time does not affect how poorly thought out and out of place your ideas are.
Most of the ideas are taking what is already in the game and modernizing the presentation to today's standards using the already created CCP technology.
I clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that. Message below.
Quote:WARNING! Hackers are spamming our forums with links leading to key-loggers/Trojans and then ruining the accounts of players that navigate to those links.
You have chosen to follow an external link. This link leads to a site outside of the control of CCP and, as such, we cannot offer any guarantee of its safety. Please check that the URL shown below is what you expected it to be before following it.
If you wish to proceed please click the link below, or press your browsers back button to return to where you were. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26001
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:46:55 -
[223] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Most of the ideas are taking what is already in the game and modernizing the presentation to today's standards using the already created CCP technology. GǪand catastrophically out of place in the game and poorly thought out.
Quote:I clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that LMAO. Yeah, you know those development credentials you're trying to use as an argument forGǪ something?
You just gave them a classic Unforgiven-style gutshot followed by a swig of water.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 16:57:28 -
[224] - Quote
VerstalI wrote: clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that. Message below. Quote:WARNING! Hackers are spamming our forums with links leading to key-loggers/Trojans and then ruining the accounts of players that navigate to those links.
You have chosen to follow an external link. This link leads to a site outside of the control of CCP and, as such, we cannot offer any guarantee of its safety. Please check that the URL shown below is what you expected it to be before following it.
If you wish to proceed please click the link below, or press your browsers back button to return to where you were.
Are you new? This has been in place for YEARS. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2188
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:09:10 -
[225] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? Maybe you missed the answer: my play time does not affect how poorly thought out and out of place your ideas are. Most of the ideas are taking what is already in the game and modernizing the presentation to today's standards using the already created CCP technology. I clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that. Message below. Quote:WARNING! Hackers are spamming our forums with links leading to key-loggers/Trojans and then ruining the accounts of players that navigate to those links.
You have chosen to follow an external link. This link leads to a site outside of the control of CCP and, as such, we cannot offer any guarantee of its safety. Please check that the URL shown below is what you expected it to be before following it.
If you wish to proceed please click the link below, or press your browsers back button to return to where you were.
You'd think that for how long that link has been Tippia's sig, CCP would of banned him if it actually was a keylogger... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26001
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:15:33 -
[226] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Are you new? This has been in place for YEARS. Now, now. It's only been, what? 5 years since the Audrey Bitoni spam wave, and 4 years since the new forums arrived (not counting the false start inGǪ was it early '11?).
Seems like yesterday.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:21:19 -
[227] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Verstal wrote:Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? Maybe you missed the answer: my play time does not affect how poorly thought out and out of place your ideas are. Most of the ideas are taking what is already in the game and modernizing the presentation to today's standards using the already created CCP technology. I clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that. Message below. Quote:WARNING! Hackers are spamming our forums with links leading to key-loggers/Trojans and then ruining the accounts of players that navigate to those links.
You have chosen to follow an external link. This link leads to a site outside of the control of CCP and, as such, we cannot offer any guarantee of its safety. Please check that the URL shown below is what you expected it to be before following it.
If you wish to proceed please click the link below, or press your browsers back button to return to where you were. You'd think that for how long that link has been Tippia's sig, CCP would of banned him if it actually was a keylogger...
Oh I agree but its still odd I got the standard warning then got the new message but all the same looked up the corps he owns and the style of play he is using so now I know to ignore his contributions. I figured he could be posting to the thread so he could get his sig posted more often as click bait.
He has spent at least 5 years hunting noobs, Jesus. Lols no wonder he wants no changes to help new players. LOLS. At least I can move on now.
No more Tippia for me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26002
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:25:04 -
[228] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Oh I agree but its still odd I got the standard warning then got the new message but all the same looked up the corps he owns and the style of play he is using so now I know to ignore his contributions. Which corps are these, and what is the play style I'm using? Also, why would any of that have any impact on the attention you give to my contributions (much less to the contributions themselves)?
Quote:He has spent at least 5 years hunting noobs, Jesus. Troll harder.
Anyway. I think I can safely write this one of as an almost unprecedented crushing victory if my opponent admits defeat so thoroughly (if indirectly) as this.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
lilol' me
Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution.
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:32:08 -
[229] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Oh I agree but its still odd I got the standard warning then got the new message but all the same looked up the corps he owns and the style of play he is using so now I know to ignore his contributions. Which corps are these, and what is the play style I'm using? Also, why would any of that have any impact on the attention you give to my contributions (much less to the contributions themselves)? Quote:He has spent at least 5 years hunting noobs, Jesus. Troll harder. Anyway. I think I can safely write this one of as an almost unprecedented crushing victory if my opponent admits defeat as thoroughly and quickly (if indirectly) as this.
*off
Guys honestly don't even give Tippa a response or ammo, is sole purpose on these forums is to **** people off.
*waiting for witty Tippia retort..... |
Josef Djugashvilis
2985
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:45:56 -
[230] - Quote
This thread has now become one about Tippia's ego.
Please get back on topic.
This is not a signature.
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26002
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:47:22 -
[231] - Quote
lilol' me wrote:Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Oh I agree but its still odd I got the standard warning then got the new message but all the same looked up the corps he owns and the style of play he is using so now I know to ignore his contributions. Which corps are these, and what is the play style I'm using? Also, why would any of that have any impact on the attention you give to my contributions (much less to the contributions themselves)? *off Nah. I feel they are entirely reasonable questions given his senseless and unreasoned dismissal of my posts, especially since it, along with the various ad hominems he chose to use, only seem to be there to cover up his inability to actually address the points I was making.
The fact that it happened so quickly GÇö going from GÇ£you're out of touchGÇ¥ to GÇ£you are a cyber-menaceGÇ¥ in less than half a dozen posts GÇö is what makes it an almost unavoidable conclusion that he just gave up on all attempts at discussion pretty much from the get-go. Meanwhile, his ideas remain either pointless or harmful, and also wholly unrelated to the original topic (since that one turned out to be a complete no-sell too).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 17:59:39 -
[232] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:This thread has now become one about Tippia's ego.
Please get back on topic.
Agree - I muted all her posts. Her interests in Eve are not on topic. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26002
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 18:12:49 -
[233] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Agree - I muted all her posts. Her interests in Eve are not on topic.
GǪand yet you brought them up rather than stay on-topic. But sure, if you want to go back to talking about how EVE is incompatible with F2P then we can do that GÇö you just have to actually address the points being made rather than lash out against the person and generally make a fallacy showcase out of your posts.
Oh, and it's GÇ£hisGÇ¥ by the way.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
FunGu Arsten
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
95
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 18:24:16 -
[234] - Quote
the only thing you must know is this
eve is a N+1 ( or +2) game -> free to play -> unlimited alts -> falcon/booster alts everywhere and unlimited amounts of gank accounts/alts with max SP.
now take your guns, press F1 and go make 2bil in a single day of pve -> buy plex and the ships for pvp.
IF that doesnt work, dont drink your slurpies,dranko,redbull,monster,megacaff+¬+¬lat+¬+¬ + cream and pay the month fee... it's not expensive (aslong as you enjoy this game)
now.. back to DEEZ PLEX PRICES ARE TOOO DAMN HIIGGHHH
|
Aoife Fraoch
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 20:56:46 -
[235] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve? Maybe you missed the answer: my play time does not affect how poorly thought out and out of place your ideas are. Most of the ideas are taking what is already in the game and modernizing the presentation to today's standards using the already created CCP technology. I clicked on the link to your newbie skill plan and got a warning about a trojan / keylogger from the CCP site you might want to look into that. Message below. Quote:WARNING! Hackers are spamming our forums with links leading to key-loggers/Trojans and then ruining the accounts of players that navigate to those links.
You have chosen to follow an external link. This link leads to a site outside of the control of CCP and, as such, we cannot offer any guarantee of its safety. Please check that the URL shown below is what you expected it to be before following it.
If you wish to proceed please click the link below, or press your browsers back button to return to where you were.
You must be new here. |
Prados
The Old Comrades Association A.W.A.C.S and Friends
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:16:55 -
[236] - Quote
Verstal wrote: Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve?
Since the beta, and all your ideas break everything about the core design and vision of the game.
|
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
204
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:27:35 -
[237] - Quote
Kind of hoping ISD just closes this thread.
OP is obviously one of these "legend in his own mind" types who thinks he's a genius but of course has never actually put his own chips down and bet on it.
F2P is a terrible idea, vast majority of the EVE community appears to agree, go find another dead horse to whip on.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:37:21 -
[238] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Kind of hoping ISD just closes this thread.
OP is obviously one of these "legend in his own mind" types who thinks he's a genius but of course has never actually put his own chips down and bet on it.
F2P is a terrible idea, vast majority of the EVE community appears to agree, go find another dead horse to whip on.
How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1486
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:39:46 -
[239] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Kind of hoping ISD just closes this thread.
OP is obviously one of these "legend in his own mind" types who thinks he's a genius but of course has never actually put his own chips down and bet on it.
F2P is a terrible idea, vast majority of the EVE community appears to agree, go find another dead horse to whip on. How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.
yeah that sounds great lets just all recycle characters to make isk and whatever else we need free alts to do topkek
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26006
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:40:12 -
[240] - Quote
Verstal wrote:How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to. How does it in any way make the game better, and what makes you think it'll actually bring in more people rather than just more alts?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
|
Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2141
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 21:56:04 -
[241] - Quote
Verstal wrote: How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.
So there's this principle in EvE called Malcanis' Law...
ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:00:33 -
[242] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Verstal wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Kind of hoping ISD just closes this thread.
OP is obviously one of these "legend in his own mind" types who thinks he's a genius but of course has never actually put his own chips down and bet on it.
F2P is a terrible idea, vast majority of the EVE community appears to agree, go find another dead horse to whip on. How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to. yeah that sounds great lets just all recycle characters to make isk and whatever else we need free alts to do topkek
Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.
The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.
Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.
One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.
Logging on again is a good thing.
More money for CCP is a good thing.
Large community good. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:05:35 -
[243] - Quote
Verstal wrote:.
Large community good.
Why? Is quantity better than quality?
At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26007
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:06:58 -
[244] - Quote
GǪexcept that F2P alts would require far more stringent and harsh restrictions than a trial, or it will be abused to the point of breaking the game. There is also nothing to suggest that it would mean more money for CCP GÇö quite the opposite, again due to those alts.
And no, GÇ£large" is not the same as GÇ£good."
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:16:51 -
[245] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Verstal wrote: How about thinking instead free to play - free for noobs or new players. Slight change in your thinking and opening your mind might give you a better game with more people to do things with or to.
So there's this principle in EvE called Malcanis' Law...
Malcanis law is an interesting read.
Does he make games for a living still? If so which ones?
I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature. Some people in the world actually try to help other people.
The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players.
If that investment can be helped more people will love playing Eve. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:24:38 -
[246] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:.
Large community good. Why? Is quantity better than quality? At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards?
Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out?
Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours?
Humans in trouble => help please.
Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25024
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:34:22 -
[247] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Malcanis law is an interesting read.
I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature. Malcanis's Law is based on observable human nature within the Eve universe, it applies especially to the Eve universe given the freedom of choice and action present within it that would get you permabanned elsewhere.
If it makes life easier for newbies then it makes life even easier for experienced players using new characters due to their pre-existing knowledge.
Quote:Some people in the world actually try to help other people.
The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players. You're correct that some people actually try to help others, for many reasons, some do it for advantage, some do it to share their knowledge etc.
Out of interest I'd love to see which groups you consider as putting a lot of time and effort into helping new players.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 22:56:24 -
[248] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Verstal wrote:Malcanis law is an interesting read.
I don't agree with this law, better to design based on human nature. Malcanis's Law is based on observable human nature within the Eve universe, it applies especially to the Eve universe given the freedom of choice and action present within it that would get you permabanned elsewhere. If it makes life easier for newbies then it makes life even easier for experienced players using new characters due to their pre-existing knowledge. Quote:Some people in the world actually try to help other people.
The most popular orgs in Eve help new players and put a lot of time and effort into developing new players. You're correct that some people actually try to help others, for many reasons, some do it for advantage, some do it to share their knowledge etc. Out of interest I'd love to see which groups you consider as putting a lot of time and effort into helping new players.
I consider any group that has puts in any "real world" effort to help the population in general or what is labeled a team which has gone beyond an average customers (playing the game) effort to enhance players enjoyment of the Eve Online product. Not just new players but all players in some cases.
This is list not complete but a start.
General: Dotlan Evemaps Early and current groups that created the Killboard system EveWho Everyone that wrote a tutorial on PVE content EveMon past and present EFT team EvElopedia Verite Chriba
Teams: These groups all created external services to help their own player community with RL resources. Goons Brave Red/Blue BoB IAC AAA RZR CoT Shadow of XDeath CVA RED Solar PL
Again list not complete but a start, the efforts of all these groups created content for Eve Online they help people get more enjoyment out of the product.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25024
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:06:06 -
[249] - Quote
Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
184
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:14:25 -
[250] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.
The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.
Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.
One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.
Logging on again is a good thing.
More money for CCP is a good thing.
Large community good.
So you're telling me I could start 20 FTP alts, post them on all WHs nearby and have mindlessly easy intel and warpins?
I could start 20 FTP alts, train them into a prototype cloak and AFK camp the systems of anyone I don't like?
I could start 100 FTP PI alts and just rake in ISK?
No, that wouldn't be abused at all. |
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:25:20 -
[251] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias.
I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.
CS:GO, League, DOTA2 all came from mod authors. All the companies that created the original products released Mod Tools which were used to make the first versions of these games.
The amazing thing about the CCP community is that CCP never gave the community tools.
All the effort came from a passion for the product and in some cases working around CCP to get the results they desired.
It's amazing effort and I have used a lot of these tools for years to increase my enjoyment of Eve. If EFT had a timer counting time in use on a server I am sure I have had that one program open for days of my life, trying to squeeze every bit out the ship I am working on.
When you can kill over 1000 people in a month sometimes the only thing that keeps you going is that kill board tick and the race you are in against the rest of the game is represented on a 2D score board hey its better then nothing, I love those guys.
My effort in writing these ideas and feedback down for CCP is my small way of doing something for community, its very small to what others have done but its what I can do by myself. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:32:50 -
[252] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Verstal wrote:Free to play alts have good limitations on them and by basing it on skillpoints the account would inactive once you reached that point reason I said X instead of fixed number is that it could be tuned based on CCP player data.
The original trial period was 14 days when i started and gave them money on my 2nd day instantly hooked. Also started a second account the 2nd day and was using it as a hauling alt when you could drive a trial account and main account at the same time which they prevent now.
Another idea would be that if you created a training alt hit the limit with the intent to sell it but you cant sell a character on a trial account so older players that wanted a spy alt, or super cap sitting alt could use this to train it for free before paying for it to be useful themselves or someone else.
One benefit for free training is If you left the game for a period you would have more motivation to log on again to change your skills.
Logging on again is a good thing.
More money for CCP is a good thing.
Large community good. So you're telling me I could start 20 FTP alts, post them on all WHs nearby and have mindlessly easy intel and warpins? I could start 20 FTP alts, train them into a prototype cloak and AFK camp the systems of anyone I don't like? I could start 100 FTP PI alts and just rake in ISK? No, that wouldn't be abused at all.
Can you run that many trial accounts at the same time? Have you tried it lately? I have a trial alt right now that I need to log off to login paid characters accounts. Your examples are for exploit not a new user.
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
230
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:36:27 -
[253] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now.
Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards.
just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else.
As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won.... If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13864
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:40:52 -
[254] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. Influence map archive such as this. Who would leave out EVE Uni? unless they are not on some influence map.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:52:31 -
[255] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Verstal wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now. Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards. just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else. As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won.... If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it.
Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days.
If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.09 23:55:57 -
[256] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. Influence map archive such as this. Who would leave out EVE Uni? unless they are not on some influence map.
Like I stated a few times the list isn't complete, and you are right they should be on the list I will add them now. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
230
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 00:09:06 -
[257] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Verstal wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now. Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards. just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else. As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won.... If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it. Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days. Edit: oh yeah it takes minutes to create email accounts enough to do this also....did I mention my family plays this game as well? If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject.
OK, lets do this then...and i would show how a 100 man multibox fleet could quickly wreck new players in a single day...becasue those characters would be considered new players....and before you mention IP bans and what all...i have literally 78 places to go for different IP's all within 3 hrs of me....not too mention public places. 1 day, and i would not be the only doing it in ibis, velator, reapers or what not to prove a point before walking out the door.....this is the chaos you are proposing...a week of that plus the occasional FOM or FOW group continuing to do it and EvE wold die really quickly.....that is what your are proposing....because that is the nature of EvE players. |
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 00:11:26 -
[258] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:.
Large community good. Why? Is quantity better than quality? At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards? Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out? Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours? Humans in trouble => help please. Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs!
Once again, when asked a direct question you pivot to another matter altogether.
There are multiple resources available to new players of which they can choose to avail themselves. A simple internet search leads to a plethora of options.
EVE was not designed to be a simple tower defense game. It is a game which requires thought, choices, strategy and a bit of learning. This games offers so many varied paths that it is unreasonable to expect to master them all in thirty to sixty days. To a certain type of gamer this is appealing because there is always more to learn and try. That is the gamer for which and by which EvE was created. Yes, EvE takes a modicum of effort to learn initially, but offers great rewards through the varied gameplay available long term.
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 00:12:57 -
[259] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days.
If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject.
Source? Or are you just making numbers up.... again? |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 01:52:41 -
[260] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:.
Large community good. Why? Is quantity better than quality? At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards? Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out? Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours? Humans in trouble => help please. Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs! Once again, when asked a direct question you pivot to another matter altogether. There are multiple resources available to new players of which they can choose to avail themselves. A simple internet search leads to a plethora of options. EVE was not designed to be a simple tower defense game. It is a game which requires thought, choices, strategy and a bit of learning. This games offers so many varied paths that it is unreasonable to expect to master them all in thirty to sixty days. To a certain type of gamer this is appealing because there is always more to learn and try. That is the gamer for which and by which EvE was created. Yes, EvE takes a modicum of effort to learn initially, but offers great rewards through the varied gameplay available long term.
Have you helped 20 players in Eve yet? Players that are trying to learn the game you play right now. People "players" trying to learn the game as it is right now?
Let me know when you have I will continue responding to your posts, for now your are muted. |
|
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 02:26:04 -
[261] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Can you run that many trial accounts at the same time? Have you tried it lately? I have a trial alt right now that I need to log off to login paid characters accounts. Your examples are for exploit not a new user.
I can personally run several trial accounts at the same time if I wanted to. I don't because I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't like that.
Having said that if you put such a restriction in the game to go free to play I would quit immediately and the other holdout boxers who managed to survive the repeater ban would quit too. Along with a lot of other people who only have two accounts.
This character has been dedicated to assisting newbros. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 02:33:19 -
[262] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Verstal wrote:Can you run that many trial accounts at the same time? Have you tried it lately? I have a trial alt right now that I need to log off to login paid characters accounts. Your examples are for exploit not a new user.
I can personally run several trial accounts at the same time if I wanted to. I don't because I'm pretty sure CCP doesn't like that. Having said that if you put such a restriction in the game to go free to play I would quit immediately and the other holdout boxers who managed to survive the repeater ban would quit too. Along with a lot of other people who only have two accounts. This character has been dedicated to assisting newbros.
Running multiple trial accounts is an exploit, bye. |
Verstal
Incredibuilders United
48
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 02:39:39 -
[263] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Verstal wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Verstal wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Your list is more complete than I thought it would be, you included some that many leave out due to personal bias. I have a lot of respect for people that put effort into a game even if they get a benefit in that product. I come from the FPS world where the MOD community shaped and even created games that are the most popular in the world right now. Problem i see here.....EvE is not an FPS, so your ideas are half ass backwards. just 1 more comment here....if EvE became FtP, especially in the sense your making about new characters without thinking of the abuse that would occur....i think i also would leave the game, and take all my cousins and immediate family that play this game with me....and believe me together we might be considered a drop in the bucket, but our accounts tallied together and the yearly subs we do pay is a substantial amount in revenue that would be missed if I was not the only one that suddenly dropped and went some where else. As one person said already...if your a troll, quit already you won.... If you honestly believe what your saying....well I think you need to quit EvE itself before you do any harm to it. Abuse? Lets run through this, how many accounts do you think are created with rule set being used now for character creation? For this example let's use 1000 per day, out of 1000 new players only 10 survive the first month, 5 the second month, 1 the third month and .1 for 6 months. Scale this up by a factor of 10 or 100 none of these numbers are good these days. Edit: oh yeah it takes minutes to create email accounts enough to do this also....did I mention my family plays this game as well? If are you happy with this outcome and think this is a good overall for CCP and Eve we have a very different way of looking at this subject. OK, lets do this then...and i would show how a 100 man multibox fleet could quickly wreck new players in a single day...becasue those characters would be considered new players....and before you mention IP bans and what all...i have literally 78 places to go for different IP's all within 3 hrs of me....not too mention public places. 1 day, and i would not be the only doing it in ibis, velator, reapers or what not to prove a point before walking out the door.....this is the chaos you are proposing...a week of that plus the occasional FOM or FOW group continuing to do it and EvE wold die really quickly.....that is what your are proposing....because that is the nature of EvE players.
So all I see here is that you want to cheat at Eve with trial accounts, and that you have resources and back up plans already thought out to execute or continue to exploit Eve? If it was me, and I was CCP I would test your back up plans out and start banning your accounts but that is me. I don't think your are good customer for CCP or care about new players.
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13866
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 02:44:34 -
[264] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
Running multiple trial accounts is an exploit, bye.
Oh yes of course! because hoards of f2p players would never ever ever never ever do thaaat Not breaking rules only matters to paying customers that are invested. And like I mentioned about tying up support/GM's indefinitely (like other f2p games), this is just another ten ton elephant to toss in the balance.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8480
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 02:44:57 -
[265] - Quote
Prados wrote:Verstal wrote: Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve?
Since the beta
...and you only have three likes. How sad
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
|
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
185
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 04:49:13 -
[266] - Quote
Verstal wrote:[quote=Cidanel Afuran] Can you run that many trial accounts at the same time? Have you tried it lately? I have a trial alt right now that I need to log off to login paid characters accounts. Your examples are for exploit not a new user.
How long have you played EVE exactly? Give me a specific number of days/weeks. I know it isn't longer than a week or two if you honestly think your troll of an idea wouldn't be mercilessly exploited. You are just another in a long string of forgotten newbies who thing that turning EVE into WoW in spaceships is a good idea.
And you are one who is clueless as to what makes a company successful as well. Perfect. I hope someone like you never works for me!
I asked you this earlier and you point blank ignored my question.
How much time have you spent understanding the typical player of EVE?
Please actually answer that questions you troll you. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
230
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 05:29:58 -
[267] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
So all I see here is that you want to cheat at Eve with trial accounts, and that you have resources and back up plans already thought out to execute or continue to exploit Eve? If it was me, and I was CCP I would test your back up plans out and start banning your accounts but that is me. I don't think your are good customer for CCP or care about new players.
Your idea of FtP would almost have to allow that kind of freedom, an with it wold come a flood of abuse. I am not the one wanting exploits or whatever....but you are trying to create such an exploit.
I love my sandbox game, and think your idea is garbage...EvE is unique and it is definitely NOT for everyone.
And yeah the other questions your dodging i would love to see you try and answer them. Right now your credibility is 0, and your understanding of EvE is 0. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13866
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 05:56:26 -
[268] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:And yeah the other questions your dodging i would love to see you try and answer them. Right now your credibility is 0, and your understanding of EvE is 0. Well after doing a little research on this poster (Verstal), I don't think they have ever really put much time into EVE, if any at all. Made an account in 07, just returned a week ago. In an NPC corp for years untouched. No standings. Even is linking this thread in bio. Either a total troll (post with your main?), or has been playing something like WoW or LOL all these years and is now here to save us from certain destruction. I call BS. Best to ignore :/
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 06:18:25 -
[269] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:Verstal wrote:.
Large community good. Why? Is quantity better than quality? At it's peak PCU has EvE ever been seen as a truly large game by most standards? Lex do you have any ideas that could help a new player out? Have you watched Rookie chat the last few hours? Humans in trouble => help please. Gamers are gamers man, we all love games. Help 20 noobs! Once again, when asked a direct question you pivot to another matter altogether. There are multiple resources available to new players of which they can choose to avail themselves. A simple internet search leads to a plethora of options. EVE was not designed to be a simple tower defense game. It is a game which requires thought, choices, strategy and a bit of learning. This games offers so many varied paths that it is unreasonable to expect to master them all in thirty to sixty days. To a certain type of gamer this is appealing because there is always more to learn and try. That is the gamer for which and by which EvE was created. Yes, EvE takes a modicum of effort to learn initially, but offers great rewards through the varied gameplay available long term. Have you helped 20 players in Eve yet? Players that are trying to learn the game you play right now. People "players" trying to learn the game as it is right now? Let me know when you have I will continue responding to your posts, for now your are muted.
Your maturity level and lack of ability to respond to facts placed before you is quite impressive. Why don't you step outside of Jita 4-4 and play the game?
I help people by interacting with them in the game and by encouraging them to LEARN FOR THEMSELVES as well. If you learn something for yourself it is retained far longer than if someone just tells you or guides you by the hand.
|
Prados
The Old Comrades Association A.W.A.C.S and Friends
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 06:22:28 -
[270] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Prados wrote:Verstal wrote: Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve?
Since the beta ...and you only have three likes. How sad
Well, only two posts (now three) - I am a lurker... |
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
51878
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 06:35:59 -
[271] - Quote
lilol' me wrote: *off
Guys honestly don't even give Tippia a response or ammo, is sole purpose on these forums is to **** people off. The more you respond the more you just play into his hands.
*waiting for witty Tippia retort.....
Very astute observation and good advice.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
51878
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 06:41:01 -
[272] - Quote
Prados wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Prados wrote:Verstal wrote: Maybe you missed the question, how long have you been playing Eve?
Since the beta ...and you only have three likes. How sad Well, only two posts (now three) - I am a lurker...
Yeah, some people are just plain lazy or don't have the ability to do a little bit of research.
Quote: Prados Date of Birth: 2004-04-13 04:26 First Forum Visit: 2015-08-27 13:17 Number of Posts: 3 Bounty: 0 ISK Likes Received: 4
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13866
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 07:09:54 -
[273] - Quote
*grabs some popcorn* *predicts an eventual lock coming in the near future* *maybe some miners ganked too*
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2015.09.10 07:59:17 -
[274] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Max Deveron wrote:And yeah the other questions your dodging i would love to see you try and answer them. Right now your credibility is 0, and your understanding of EvE is 0. Well after doing a little research on this poster (Verstal), I don't think they have ever really put much time into EVE, if any at all. Made an account in 07, just returned a week ago. In an NPC corp for years untouched. No standings. Even is linking this thread in bio. Either a total troll (post with your main?), or has been playing something like WoW or LOL all these years and is now here to save us from certain destruction (along with 3mil ragequitters from WoW over flying mounts). I call BS. Really, OP, you should spend some time playing EVE before making sweeping judgements and wanting EVE to entirely change for you. If your friends from the other game are not interested, maybe it's just that you don't really know how to answer them yet nor know how to guide them into actually experiencing the game as it should be experienced; as you have not really done so yourself. Your game changing ideas are just bad, flat out bad, and maybe you would realize that if you spent time in the game, yourself.
But .... but .... but he is a super awesome "Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer" that has trained other game designers for 15+ years. He told us multiple times how mutch experiance he has and how awesome he is. LISTEN TO HIM! Just look at how skillfull he dodged the questions that poke holes in his ideas and how awesome he mutes people that use solid arguments, causality and logic to deconstruct his visions that will save us all.
Lex Gabinia wrote: Source? Or are you just making numbers up.... again?
Dont bother asking concrete questions. He will ether mute you or come up with a other spontanious and totaly awesome idea that will save EvE once and for all ... by killing it.
This thead should be locked. OP constantly changes topic, randomly mutes people that "do not see the light" and uses this thread to profile himself as the goodfather of game designing. Since im probably getting muted, im out. bb
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:04:03 -
[275] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Verstal wrote:
So all I see here is that you want to cheat at Eve with trial accounts, and that you have resources and back up plans already thought out to execute or continue to exploit Eve? If it was me, and I was CCP I would test your back up plans out and start banning your accounts but that is me. I don't think your are good customer for CCP or care about new players.
Your idea of FtP would almost have to allow that kind of freedom, an with it wold come a flood of abuse. I am not the one wanting exploits or whatever....but you are trying to create such an exploit. I love my sandbox game, and think your idea is garbage...EvE is unique and it is definitely NOT for everyone. And yeah the other questions your dodging i would love to see you try and answer them. Right now your credibility is 0, and your understanding of EvE is 0.
I go into great detail how I softened my stance, and why. If you have constructive feedback and how to keep more the .1% of new player past 3 months then lets hear it or break down each idea on the front page and give an alternative.
Open rookie chat and help some new players learn the game? Give it an hour. People that want to learn that are trying to learn are in the process of learning right now. I am sure 1000+ people in rookie chat.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1487
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:13:53 -
[276] - Quote
if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:14:36 -
[277] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Webvan wrote:Max Deveron wrote:And yeah the other questions your dodging i would love to see you try and answer them. Right now your credibility is 0, and your understanding of EvE is 0. Well after doing a little research on this poster (Verstal), I don't think they have ever really put much time into EVE, if any at all. Made an account in 07, just returned a week ago. In an NPC corp for years untouched. No standings. Even is linking this thread in bio. Either a total troll (post with your main?), or has been playing something like WoW or LOL all these years and is now here to save us from certain destruction (along with 3mil ragequitters from WoW over flying mounts). I call BS. Really, OP, you should spend some time playing EVE before making sweeping judgements and wanting EVE to entirely change for you. If your friends from the other game are not interested, maybe it's just that you don't really know how to answer them yet nor know how to guide them into actually experiencing the game as it should be experienced; as you have not really done so yourself. Your game changing ideas are just bad, flat out bad, and maybe you would realize that if you spent time in the game, yourself. But .... but .... but he is a super awesome "Programmer - Artist - Designer - Producer" that has trained other game designers for 15+ years. He told us multiple times how mutch experiance he has and how awesome he is. LISTEN TO HIM! Just look at how skillfull he dodged the questions that poke holes in his ideas and how awesome he mutes people that use solid arguments, causality and logic to deconstruct his visions that will save us all. Lex Gabinia wrote: Source? Or are you just making numbers up.... again?
Dont bother asking concrete questions. He will ether mute you or come up with a other spontanious and totaly awesome idea that will save EvE once and for all ... by killing it. This thead should be locked. OP constantly changes topic, randomly mutes people that "do not see the light" and uses this thread to profile himself as the goodfather of game designing. Since im probably getting muted, im out. bb
Its closer to 26 years I started pretty young. :-) I am sure you helped a lot of people today learn Eve so they will get excited about making the commitment to sending a few dollars to CCP so that the servers and sandbox will open to all for another 10 years. If not, please do your part and go help someone.
The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play?
Have you contributed any ideas, I cant remember.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
345
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:20:14 -
[278] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
Open rookie chat and help some new players learn the game? Give it an hour. People that want to learn that are trying to learn are in the process of learning right now. I am sure 1000+ people in rookie chat.
you seem to have a very limited understanding of EVE and what has happened in the last few years. this is a worry to hear you are helping new people and perhaps this is one of the reasons new bros are not sticking. i know if i was new and i happened to be lucky enough to get help from someone like you who has this attitude that you have the answers to everything and refuse point blank to answer simple questions about statements you've made claiming all sorts of nonsense. i'm sure it wouldn't be long before i'd be thinking people in this game are full of shite. rookie help channel should be moderated in some way. perhaps CCP should vet the vets that want to help and give them a different colour name in the channel letting rookies know this guy has been approved to help me. you wanted constructive feed back. there ya go
from what i've seen here so far, you should not be helping anyone. you could do with some help yourself.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:23:19 -
[279] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo?
So you are saying that a system that has changed a lot over 12 years on how accounts are managed that if it changes in anyway you are going to quit?
You are saying that no system that someone can express in words that could allow new player more time to fall in love with the game is not possible?
I have no ego about the ideas I wrote down I come up a ton of bad ideas all the time.
Are you telling me that you cant think of one thing that could help new players not run away from Eve like its a burning building?
Not one idea. At least try if not go help someone with your knowledge in Rookie Chat, take a new player under your wing, be a good human help your fellow man in a video game or better yet go do it in the real world. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
345
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:24:31 -
[280] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play?
Have you contributed any ideas, I cant remember.
you think CCP never considered free to play and that's just about the end of it. your ignorance in this matter shows everyone reading this that indeed you don't know what the feck you're talking about.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1488
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:29:48 -
[281] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? So you are saying that a system that has changed a lot over 12 years on how accounts are managed that if it changes in anyway you are going to quit? You are saying that no system that someone can express in words that could allow new player more time to fall in love with the game is not possible? I have no ego about the ideas I wrote down I come up a ton of bad ideas all the time. Are you telling me that you cant think of one thing that could help new players not run away from Eve like its a burning building? Not one idea. At least try if not go help someone with your knowledge in Rookie Chat, take a new player under your wing, be a good human help your fellow man in a video game or better yet go do it in the real world.
I play eve because i like the fact it roots out the stereotypical players who play free to play games, the people who dont want to pay for a game so they dont take it seriously, if it went f2p it would attract the type of people i do not like in the gaming world. subscription model games are for serious gamers, f2p are fisher-price gamers.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26010
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:34:29 -
[282] - Quote
Verstal wrote:I go into great detail how I softened my stance, and why. If you have constructive feedback and how to keep more the .1% of new player past 3 months then lets hear it or break down each idea on the front page and give an alternative. That's easy: change nothing.
One the other hand, something that's bound to create the level of retention you're envisioning there is to implment all the things you've suggested and completely break the game to the point where it will soon shut down. None of your ideas actually address any kind of problem with the game, and they most certainly do not address the issue of the topic GÇö they're just random bits of industry buzzword thrown out with any understanding of purpose and intent. Hell, you haven't even managed to articulate what benefits the original idea was supposed to bring.
The entire OP can now be answered in a single question: why?!
Quote:The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play? This has been answered in full: no. The game is not designed to allow for it and doing so would break the game on a fundamental level. Actual game designers have looked into this; the EVE devs have looked into it; everyone with any kind of insight into the game, its audience, and the gameplay it is trying to provide has looked into this. The answer from all of them is no. The two are not compatible even on a conceptual level, and with the game as it has been developed, they are wholly incompatible on a practical level too.
Your unfamiliarity with the game and your absolute refusal to actually discuss the many many many points in opposition to your half-baked and uninformed ideas only serve to demonstrate that you are not anywhere close to being in a position to actually have a constructive discussion on the topic of EVE development, much less on EVE customer retention.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:43:18 -
[283] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Verstal wrote:
Open rookie chat and help some new players learn the game? Give it an hour. People that want to learn that are trying to learn are in the process of learning right now. I am sure 1000+ people in rookie chat.
you seem to have a very limited understanding of EVE and what has happened in the last few years. this is a worry to hear you are helping new people and perhaps this is one of the reasons new bros are not sticking. i know if i was new and i happened to be lucky enough to get help from someone like you who has this attitude that you have the answers to everything and refuse point blank to answer simple questions about statements you've made claiming all sorts of nonsense. i'm sure it wouldn't be long before i'd be thinking people in this game are full of shite. rookie help channel should be moderated in some way. perhaps CCP should vet the vets that want to help and give them a different colour name in the channel letting rookies know this guy has been approved to help me. you wanted constructive feed back. there ya go from what i've seen here so far, you should not be helping anyone. you could do with some help yourself.
You could say that its my turn to give back to the community. I appreciate your thoughts and contribution to this thread.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1488
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:45:36 -
[284] - Quote
you are not giving back to the community you are trying to attract a playerbase which is clearly not suitable for this game
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:46:16 -
[285] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Captain Awkward wrote:stuff Its closer to 26 years I started pretty young. :-) I am sure you helped a lot of people today learn Eve so they will get excited about making the commitment to sending a few dollars to CCP so that the servers and sandbox will open to all for another 10 years. If not, please do your part and go help someone. The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play? Have you contributed any ideas, I cant remember.
Wow. 26 years and your still more naive then I was on my first day.
Have I help new players into this game? Well I intruduced firends to EvE. And contrary to your game designer friends, they are still playing and paying to this day.
Your topic is a question. The question has bin answered multiple times. The answer was NO. So unless you ask a question and ignore all answers that are not the answer you wanted to hear, this thread can be closed now. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
345
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:48:48 -
[286] - Quote
Verstal wrote:
You could say that its my turn to give back to the community. I appreciate your thoughts and contribution to this thread.
Are you doing the same with every other response you're getting?
so far i'm seeing a huge NO (for very good reason) to your question.
free to play = NO!
take it on the chin and move along.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:48:55 -
[287] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? So you are saying that a system that has changed a lot over 12 years on how accounts are managed that if it changes in anyway you are going to quit? You are saying that no system that someone can express in words that could allow new player more time to fall in love with the game is not possible? I have no ego about the ideas I wrote down I come up a ton of bad ideas all the time. Are you telling me that you cant think of one thing that could help new players not run away from Eve like its a burning building? Not one idea. At least try if not go help someone with your knowledge in Rookie Chat, take a new player under your wing, be a good human help your fellow man in a video game or better yet go do it in the real world. I play eve because i like the fact it roots out the stereotypical players who play free to play games, the people who dont want to pay for a game so they dont take it seriously, if it went f2p it would attract the type of people i do not like in the gaming world. subscription model games are for serious gamers, f2p are fisher-price gamers.
Yes I like that about Eve as well the brutality was my favorite part for years, do you think Eve is getting enough new players?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26010
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:51:37 -
[288] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Yes I like that about Eve as well the brutality was my favorite part for years, do you think Eve is getting enough new players? Perhaps not, but F2P is not the answer to that regardless. There are never GÇ£enoughGÇ¥ players to replace an existing customer base. Trying to do so only ever has one outcome: the game has to shut down.
If you're going to feign industry experience, you should at least take the time to learn this simple fact first.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:51:52 -
[289] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Verstal wrote:
You could say that its my turn to give back to the community. I appreciate your thoughts and contribution to this thread.
Are you doing the same with every other response you're getting? so far i'm seeing a huge NO (for very good reason) to your question. free to play = NO! take it on the chin and move along.
I am sorry sir I dont understand and lost the concept your are trying to express that can help new players learn Eve. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1490
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:52:54 -
[290] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? So you are saying that a system that has changed a lot over 12 years on how accounts are managed that if it changes in anyway you are going to quit? You are saying that no system that someone can express in words that could allow new player more time to fall in love with the game is not possible? I have no ego about the ideas I wrote down I come up a ton of bad ideas all the time. Are you telling me that you cant think of one thing that could help new players not run away from Eve like its a burning building? Not one idea. At least try if not go help someone with your knowledge in Rookie Chat, take a new player under your wing, be a good human help your fellow man in a video game or better yet go do it in the real world. I play eve because i like the fact it roots out the stereotypical players who play free to play games, the people who dont want to pay for a game so they dont take it seriously, if it went f2p it would attract the type of people i do not like in the gaming world. subscription model games are for serious gamers, f2p are fisher-price gamers. Yes I like that about Eve as well the brutality was my favorite part for years, do you think Eve is getting enough new players?
new players? do i really care if the game is getting enough new players, no i dont because i leave my work at 5pm where i have worked for 8 hours to get my company new customers so id rather drop rattlesnakes on some poor cruiser fleet than worry if ccp marketing department are doing their job properly.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:57:29 -
[291] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Verstal wrote:Captain Awkward wrote:stuff Its closer to 26 years I started pretty young. :-) I am sure you helped a lot of people today learn Eve so they will get excited about making the commitment to sending a few dollars to CCP so that the servers and sandbox will open to all for another 10 years. If not, please do your part and go help someone. The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play? Have you contributed any ideas, I cant remember. Wow. 26 years and your still more naive than I was on my first day. Have I help new players into this game? Well I intruduced firends to EvE. And contrary to your game designer friends, they are still playing and paying to this day. Your topic is a question. The question has bin answered multiple times. The answer was NO. So unless you ask a question and ignore all answers that are not the answer you wanted to hear, this thread can be closed now.
I have to look at who is contributing to thread and judge what is motivating the response to it.
I am finding the discussion very interesting myself, and really amazed at how many people want to help the community. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
345
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Posted - 2015.09.10 08:59:17 -
[292] - Quote
Verstal wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Verstal wrote:
You could say that its my turn to give back to the community. I appreciate your thoughts and contribution to this thread.
Are you doing the same with every other response you're getting? so far i'm seeing a huge NO (for very good reason) to your question. free to play = NO! take it on the chin and move along. I am sorry sir I dont understand and lost the concept your are trying to express that can help new players learn Eve.
what part of NO to free to play do you not understand? ffs
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:06:40 -
[293] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Verstal wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? So you are saying that a system that has changed a lot over 12 years on how accounts are managed that if it changes in anyway you are going to quit? You are saying that no system that someone can express in words that could allow new player more time to fall in love with the game is not possible? I have no ego about the ideas I wrote down I come up a ton of bad ideas all the time. Are you telling me that you cant think of one thing that could help new players not run away from Eve like its a burning building? Not one idea. At least try if not go help someone with your knowledge in Rookie Chat, take a new player under your wing, be a good human help your fellow man in a video game or better yet go do it in the real world. I play eve because i like the fact it roots out the stereotypical players who play free to play games, the people who dont want to pay for a game so they dont take it seriously, if it went f2p it would attract the type of people i do not like in the gaming world. subscription model games are for serious gamers, f2p are fisher-price gamers. Yes I like that about Eve as well the brutality was my favorite part for years, do you think Eve is getting enough new players? new players? do i really care if the game is getting enough new players, no i dont because i leave my work at 5pm where i have worked for 8 hours to get my company new customers so id rather drop rattlesnakes on some poor cruiser fleet than worry if ccp marketing department are doing their job properly. so as long as i have daily targets to shoot at i couldnt really care because i pay a subscription to have fun not run a 2nd job for free
I understand man I work 10-16 hours a day for months at a time so do a lot of game devs, and CCP fired the Marketing people in SF office a while ago. So don't worry about I am putting this effort in so you have people to shoot for a few more years. |
Luscius Uta
156
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:06:42 -
[294] - Quote
Few years ago, I would dismiss OP's ideas as silly and for reasons already described in this thread. But today I see ever-increasing PLEX prices and numbers of active players steadily falling (I am also rather convinced that the number of subscribed accounts hasn't been so low ever since I started playing in 2011, but CCP is no longer willing to give us that information, and after they fired their Ph.D. economist we know less about their business results than ever) and it makes me wary about the future of the game. While I'm still hoping that EVE won't die, some changes are necessary (and I don't mean things that Fozzie is usually responsible for, since most new players don't care about sov or rebalancing changes).
Hopefully most people here will agree with me on these two points: 1) EVE needs new players desperately or it will face a slow death. 2) Subscription-model MMORPGs are outdated and won't attract new audiences.
Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. Allowing only one F2P account per player, changing trial accounts so their subscription never runs out or giving some limits to F2P accounts (for example, capping their SP/hour to 1800 or less) are some of the ways that could be worth considering. But I would be satisfied if CCP would just lower subscription and PLEX prices (which is unlikely since with rising PLEX prices, more people are likely to use their credit card to pay their sub instead of their hard-earned ISK). However, if nothing of the above happens, I give EVE maybe 3 more years before CCP decides to shut down TQ for good. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1491
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:20:26 -
[295] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Few years ago, I would dismiss OP's ideas as silly and for reasons already described in this thread. But today I see ever-increasing PLEX prices and numbers of active players steadily falling (I am also rather convinced that the number of subscribed accounts hasn't been so low ever since I started playing in 2011, but CCP is no longer willing to give us that information, and after they fired their Ph.D. economist we know less about their business results than ever) and it makes me wary about the future of the game. While I'm still hoping that EVE won't die, some changes are necessary (and I don't mean things that Fozzie is usually responsible for, since most new players don't care about sov or rebalancing changes).
Hopefully most people here will agree with me on these two points: 1) EVE needs new players desperately or it will face a slow death. 2) Subscription-model MMORPGs are outdated and won't attract new audiences.
Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. Allowing only one F2P account per player, changing trial accounts so their subscription never runs out or giving some limits to F2P accounts (for example, capping their SP/hour to 1800 or less) are some of the ways that could be worth considering. But I would be satisfied if CCP would just lower subscription and PLEX prices (which is unlikely since with rising PLEX prices, more people are likely to use their credit card to pay their sub instead of their hard-earned ISK). However, if nothing of the above happens, I give EVE maybe 3 more years before CCP decides to shut down TQ for good.
again what is more important, people who happily pay subscriptions for themselves and dozens of alts and have been playing for years or the people who just cry because they cant afford 9.99 and want everything for free and really only stay in the game for a month because they cant make enough to buy a plex? seriously are you complaining about 9.99 a month? a pint in the pub now costs more than that.
lower subscription costs = not enough money going to ccp, meaning lack of support, features etc etc the list goes on, go f2p and you will lose most of the current playerbase and have to find constant scrubs who will play for maybe 2 months then go somewhere else, yay you killed eve because you are a scrub
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26013
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 09:21:27 -
[296] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. They really don't, short of redesigning the entire game from the ground up GÇö i.e. by creating a completely new game.
There would have to be an entirely new way of making more people pay more money than they do now, and it would have to be done in a way that doesn't in any way affect the competitiveness of the individual. You'd also have to create a game where N+1 > N is no longer true. Restricting the number of accounts is a foolish idea because it's simply not technically feasible and would only serve to restrict the ways in which the N crowd can overcome the N+1 one.
The monetisation scheme of a game is an integral part of its design. You cannot change it without fundamentally change how the game is played. To make EVE F2P, you have to make not-EVE and hope that it will attract the same customers (and more), when there is absolutely nothing to even suggest that it would attract either of those two groupsGǪ and we haven't even gotten to the far more crucial problem of actually retaining this fantasy customer base.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:26:49 -
[297] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Few years ago, I would dismiss OP's ideas as silly and for reasons already described in this thread. But today I see ever-increasing PLEX prices and numbers of active players steadily falling (I am also rather convinced that the number of subscribed accounts hasn't been so low ever since I started playing in 2011, but CCP is no longer willing to give us that information, and after they fired their Ph.D. economist we know less about their business results than ever) and it makes me wary about the future of the game. While I'm still hoping that EVE won't die, some changes are necessary (and I don't mean things that Fozzie is usually responsible for, since most new players don't care about sov or rebalancing changes).
Hopefully most people here will agree with me on these two points: 1) EVE needs new players desperately or it will face a slow death. 2) Subscription-model MMORPGs are outdated and won't attract new audiences.
Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. Allowing only one F2P account per player, changing trial accounts so their subscription never runs out or giving some limits to F2P accounts (for example, capping their SP/hour to 1800 or less) are some of the ways that could be worth considering. But I would be satisfied if CCP would just lower subscription and PLEX prices (which is unlikely since with rising PLEX prices, more people are likely to use their credit card to pay their sub instead of their hard-earned ISK). However, if nothing of the above happens, I give EVE maybe 3 more years before CCP decides to shut down TQ for good.
I agree on both points!
I don't think CCP has 3 years, they borrowed money payed it back and went dark, the new products which cannibalize Eve wont make money they will maybe if they are lucky get someone excited enough to buy them. They make about 12-13 mil a year in profit which isn't enough to keep the staff they have or grow at all.
I have stated this a few different times but the WOD 100m disaster left CCP at 10% Hull 0% Armor they are on fire, and this fire is pretty because its driven by new tech that everyone turns off because they zoom the ships out as soon as they can to avoid getting motion sickness from every gate jump with no option to speed it up or slow it down or turn it off.
Yes CCP they understand human perceptions to the point that the golden path to a VR Facebook buyout is all but certain.
I wish CCP was doing a better job I really do but I know better.
Real question is if the large Swiss banking firm will loan CCP money if they do try to go to a free to play models since they have been using sub money to stock the shelves with content have been for years.
I am trying to help CCP survive even themselves, I love Eve that much, I really do.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13867
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:29:20 -
[298] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? Don't worry, CCP already said some years back that it wouldn't be possible for EVE. It's not technically possible and would have had to be done pre-launch by design. I completely agree with them, it's not possible by the design architecture of EVE, and there is no magic want to do such a thing w/o destroying the game as it is; what makes EVE, EVE.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1492
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 09:35:35 -
[299] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Few years ago, I would dismiss OP's ideas as silly and for reasons already described in this thread. But today I see ever-increasing PLEX prices and numbers of active players steadily falling (I am also rather convinced that the number of subscribed accounts hasn't been so low ever since I started playing in 2011, but CCP is no longer willing to give us that information, and after they fired their Ph.D. economist we know less about their business results than ever) and it makes me wary about the future of the game. While I'm still hoping that EVE won't die, some changes are necessary (and I don't mean things that Fozzie is usually responsible for, since most new players don't care about sov or rebalancing changes).
Hopefully most people here will agree with me on these two points: 1) EVE needs new players desperately or it will face a slow death. 2) Subscription-model MMORPGs are outdated and won't attract new audiences.
Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. Allowing only one F2P account per player, changing trial accounts so their subscription never runs out or giving some limits to F2P accounts (for example, capping their SP/hour to 1800 or less) are some of the ways that could be worth considering. But I would be satisfied if CCP would just lower subscription and PLEX prices (which is unlikely since with rising PLEX prices, more people are likely to use their credit card to pay their sub instead of their hard-earned ISK). However, if nothing of the above happens, I give EVE maybe 3 more years before CCP decides to shut down TQ for good. I agree on both points! I don't think CCP has 3 years, they borrowed money payed it back and went dark, the new products which cannibalize Eve wont make money they will maybe if they are lucky get someone excited enough to buy them. They make about 12-13 mil a year in profit which isn't enough to keep the staff they have or grow at all. I have stated this a few different times but the WOD 100m disaster left CCP at 10% Hull 0% Armor they are on fire, and this fire is pretty because its driven by new tech that everyone turns off because they zoom the ships out as soon as they can to avoid getting motion sickness from every gate jump with no option to speed it up or slow it down or turn it off. Yes CCP they understand human perceptions to the point that the golden path to a VR Facebook buyout is all but certain. I wish CCP was doing a better job I really do but I know better. Real question is if the large Swiss banking firm will loan CCP money if they do try to go to a free to play models since they have been using sub money to stock the shelves with content have been for years. I am trying to help CCP survive even themselves, I love Eve that much, I really do.
seems you just pulled these numbers out your head in a last ditch hope to project "eve is dying"
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 09:35:45 -
[300] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Few years ago, I would dismiss OP's ideas as silly and for reasons already described in this thread. But today I see ever-increasing PLEX prices and numbers of active players steadily falling (I am also rather convinced that the number of subscribed accounts hasn't been so low ever since I started playing in 2011, but CCP is no longer willing to give us that information, and after they fired their Ph.D. economist we know less about their business results than ever) and it makes me wary about the future of the game. While I'm still hoping that EVE won't die, some changes are necessary (and I don't mean things that Fozzie is usually responsible for, since most new players don't care about sov or rebalancing changes).
Hopefully most people here will agree with me on these two points: 1) EVE needs new players desperately or it will face a slow death. 2) Subscription-model MMORPGs are outdated and won't attract new audiences.
Therefore it seems necessary for CCP to change subscription model. Turning EVE into a F2P may have its disadvantages, but most of them should have a way to remedy them. Allowing only one F2P account per player, changing trial accounts so their subscription never runs out or giving some limits to F2P accounts (for example, capping their SP/hour to 1800 or less) are some of the ways that could be worth considering. But I would be satisfied if CCP would just lower subscription and PLEX prices (which is unlikely since with rising PLEX prices, more people are likely to use their credit card to pay their sub instead of their hard-earned ISK). However, if nothing of the above happens, I give EVE maybe 3 more years before CCP decides to shut down TQ for good. I agree on both points! I don't think CCP has 3 years, they borrowed money payed it back and went dark, the new products which cannibalize Eve wont make money they will maybe if they are lucky get someone excited enough to buy them. They make about 12-13 mil a year in profit which isn't enough to keep the staff they have or grow at all. I have stated this a few different times but the WOD 100m disaster left CCP at 10% Hull 0% Armor they are on fire, and this fire is pretty because its driven by new tech that everyone turns off because they zoom the ships out as soon as they can to avoid getting motion sickness from every gate jump with no option to speed it up or slow it down or turn it off. Yes CCP they understand human perceptions to the point that the golden path to a VR Facebook buyout is all but certain. I wish CCP was doing a better job I really do but I know better. Real question is if the large Swiss banking firm will loan CCP money if they do try to go to a free to play models since they have been using sub money to stock the shelves with content have been for years. I am trying to help CCP survive even themselves, I love Eve that much, I really do.
I really hope you are not having a conversation with your alt here.
Also - if you love EvE as you say , why do you want to break it and alienate the complete player base? Remember when they burned Jita ? That's because they care and do not want this game to go down the free to play , pay to win path (and other issues). I would quit my subscription and recycle my characters to make a point if if would come to EVE F2P.
If things are as you say ,doomsday around the corner (which I do not really believe). Then I would gladly wait for EVE II and prefer to not violate a lady like EVE in her final days.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13870
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:41:43 -
[301] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Verstal wrote:I go into great detail how I softened my stance, and why. If you have constructive feedback and how to keep more the .1% of new player past 3 months then lets hear it or break down each idea on the front page and give an alternative. That's easy: change nothing. One the other hand, something that's bound to create the level of retention you're envisioning there is to implment all the things you've suggested and completely break the game to the point where it will soon shut down. None of your ideas actually address any kind of problem with the game, and they most certainly do not address the issue of the topic GÇö they're just random bits of industry buzzword thrown out with any understanding of purpose and intent. Hell, you haven't even managed to articulate what benefits the original idea was supposed to bring. The entire OP can now be answered in a single question: why?! Quote:The topic is -- Would it be possible for CCP to make Eve free to play? This has been answered in full: no. The game is not designed to allow for it and doing so would break the game on a fundamental level. Actual game designers have looked into this; the EVE devs have looked into it; everyone with any kind of insight into the game, its audience, and the gameplay it is trying to provide has looked into this. The answer from all of them is no. The two are not compatible even on a conceptual level, and with the game as it has been developed, they are wholly incompatible on a practical level too. Your unfamiliarity with the game and your absolute refusal to actually discuss the many many many points in opposition to your half-baked and uninformed ideas only serve to demonstrate that you are not anywhere close to being in a position to actually have a constructive discussion on the topic of EVE development, much less on EVE customer retention. qft
now op prolly block me er or already has. Prolly wind up blocking everyone that actually does have dev exp, just because they won't agree with him and with his 1 week of exp in EVE.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
206
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Posted - 2015.09.10 09:55:13 -
[302] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:And you are one who is clueless as to what makes a company successful as well. Perfect. The programmer who fancies himself an artist who has no idea what makes a company money. I hope someone like you never works for me! If you disagree with this, feel free to tell me what game you have designed that has been regarded as one of the top MMOs for well over a decade.
This, all day long. I deal with this every freaking day at work. So many geniuses who have zero concept of how business actually works. Usually coupled with poor interpersonal skills.
Subscription model is not the barrier to new player recruitment and retention.
The barrier is complexity and the nature of a sandbox. That's why in-game efforts to support, encourage and enable new players (CAS Combat Day anyone?) matter to new player retention while half-baked schemes to change the nature of the game do not. I spend a lot of time supporting in-game activities (content) that support new players, because that helps the game.
F2P fixes nothing about the actual barriers (complexity + sandbox). Because it is a sandbox, it in fact opens the game to abuse on a massive scale. Something the OP seems utterly incapable of comprehending.
This is a huge complex game that rewards long term involvement, not a tower defence game on a mobile phone.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:03:00 -
[303] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? Don't worry, CCP already said some years back that it wouldn't be possible for EVE. It's not technically possible and would have had to be done pre-launch by design. I completely agree with them, it's not possible by the design architecture of EVE, and there is no magic wand to do such a thing w/o destroying the game as it is; what makes EVE, EVE.
CCP design decisions haven't had the goal of putting new fun into the game but breaking up groups that play for free and dont pay them anything.
Very bad tactic since the people who are playing for free are supporting the community by providing attractive game play to a large percentage of the active population.
This tactic could be viable but needs to be based on a product that has a higher percentage of players staying to play to replace the old vets.
CCP knows this its why CCP has spent 12 years redoing the new player experience over and over and over again so they can keep reusing the same content as new players join the community and older players leave. This hast worked the Vets love Eve so much have so much time invested they never want it end, some pay RL rent off CCP isk.
The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. CCP needs plan to take note of these trends in some cases match them Eve, not by destroying the product but shape it so new players will find something they like enough to give the game some effort over other products.
Listen to the dev interviews and watch the Fanfest VOD's again, they thought that by forcing Null Sec to pay rent would cause the break up that was 3-4 years ago, everyone knew it wouldn't work then.
You can force people to fight each other, the players will always work together against the dev when the chips are down and backs are against the wall. RAWR!
They admit failure to this idea working because they didn't account for how much money people have in Null sec.
Some players have enough isk to play the game for free for 77 years and buy an officer fit titan every one of those 77 years. You think a guy like this is effected by a Sov change?
ok am i done for now getting tired its 3 am in Cali.
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Luscius Uta
156
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:07:40 -
[304] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:And you are one who is clueless as to what makes a company successful as well. Perfect. The programmer who fancies himself an artist who has no idea what makes a company money. I hope someone like you never works for me! If you disagree with this, feel free to tell me what game you have designed that has been regarded as one of the top MMOs for well over a decade. This, all day long. I deal with this every freaking day at work. So many geniuses who have zero concept of how business actually works. Usually coupled with poor interpersonal skills. Subscription model is not the barrier to new player recruitment and retention. The barrier is complexity and the nature of a sandbox. That's why in-game efforts to support, encourage and enable new players (CAS Combat Day anyone?) matter to new player retention while half-baked schemes to change the nature of the game do not. I spend a lot of time supporting in-game activities (content) that support new players, because that helps the game. F2P fixes nothing about the actual barriers (complexity + sandbox). Because it is a sandbox, it in fact opens the game to abuse on a massive scale. Something the OP seems utterly incapable of comprehending. This is a huge complex game that rewards long term involvement, not a tower defence game on a mobile phone.
EVE is much less complex now than it was 5 or more years ago. So how about you explain this chart to us "clueless" people:
http://i.imgur.com/BiQnoVp.png
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26016
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:11:56 -
[305] - Quote
Verstal wrote:CCP design decisions haven't had the goal of putting new fun into the game but breaking up groups that play for free and dont pay them anything. In a thread that's based solely on conjecture and uninformed nonsense, this is probably the most fantastical yet.
Not only have they no real intent to break up groups GÇö they don't have to since that happens on its own (what was that about designing with human nature in mind again?) GÇö pretty much every expansion has had the goal of putting new fun into the game. Suggesting otherwise exhibits a shock detachment from any known reality.
Quote:CCP knows this its why CCP has spent 12 years redoing the new player experience over and over and over again so they can keep reusing the same content as new players join the community and older players leave. GǪexcept that they've also updated the content to the point where it doesn't particularly qualify as Gǣthe sameGǥ any more. The reason they've been improving the NPE is because it needs to be improved; because EVE is a complex game that takes a bit of time to understand, nothing more.
Quote:The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. GǪand also more complex, in-depth game with some pretty crushing difficulty. After years of coddling, the gamer market is getting fed up with dumbed-down content and is once again yearning for a challenge.
Quote:They admit failure to this idea working because they didn't account for how much money people have in Null sec. Source?
Quote:Some players have enough isk to play the game for free for 77 years and buy an officer fit titan every one of those 77 years. You think a guy like this is effected by a Sov change? Of course he is. Without it, he wouldn't still be playing. It is the very essence of what he's built his EVE life on.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Verstal
Incredibuilders United
67
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:18:36 -
[306] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:And you are one who is clueless as to what makes a company successful as well. Perfect. The programmer who fancies himself an artist who has no idea what makes a company money. I hope someone like you never works for me! If you disagree with this, feel free to tell me what game you have designed that has been regarded as one of the top MMOs for well over a decade. This, all day long. I deal with this every freaking day at work. So many geniuses who have zero concept of how business actually works. Usually coupled with poor interpersonal skills. Subscription model is not the barrier to new player recruitment and retention. The barrier is complexity and the nature of a sandbox. That's why in-game efforts to support, encourage and enable new players (CAS Combat Day anyone?) matter to new player retention while half-baked schemes to change the nature of the game do not. I spend a lot of time supporting in-game activities (content) that support new players, because that helps the game. F2P fixes nothing about the actual barriers (complexity + sandbox). Because it is a sandbox, it in fact opens the game to abuse on a massive scale. Something the OP seems utterly incapable of comprehending. This is a huge complex game that rewards long term involvement, not a tower defence game on a mobile phone. EVE is much less complex now than it was 5 or more years ago. So how about you explain this chart to us "clueless" people: http://i.imgur.com/BiQnoVp.png
Ok last one I am falling over... and cant even read what I am typing.
That chart represents a complete and utter failure in game design decisions, product decisions, 100 million dollars in subscription money going to WoD, along with the founders and inventors of Eve leaving CCP to go start a new VR company.
The people with core vision of the product we have loved this many years left right when that chart starts to look bad for CCP.
All for now my wife is already pissed.
++ ADD To Wife: "but babe I am trying to save Iceland! Wife: I dont f**ing care let them die... She is brutal I love her. |
Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:19:32 -
[307] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Webvan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? Don't worry, CCP already said some years back that it wouldn't be possible for EVE. It's not technically possible and would have had to be done pre-launch by design. I completely agree with them, it's not possible by the design architecture of EVE, and there is no magic wand to do such a thing w/o destroying the game as it is; what makes EVE, EVE. CCP design decisions haven't had the goal of putting new fun into the game but breaking up groups that play for free and dont pay them anything. Very bad tactic since the people who are playing for free are supporting the community by providing attractive game play to a large percentage of the active population. This tactic could be viable but needs to be based on a product that has a higher percentage of players staying to play to replace the old vets. CCP knows this its why CCP has spent 12 years redoing the new player experience over and over and over again so they can keep reusing the same content as new players join the community and older players leave. This hast worked the Vets love Eve so much have so much time invested they never want it end, some pay RL rent off CCP isk. The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. CCP needs plan to take note of these trends in some cases match them Eve, not by destroying the product but shape it so new players will find something they like enough to give the game some effort over other products. Listen to the dev interviews and watch the Fanfest VOD's again, they thought that by forcing Null Sec to pay rent would cause the break up that was 3-4 years ago, everyone knew it wouldn't work then. You can force people to fight each other, the players will always work together against the dev when the chips are down and backs are against the wall. RAWR! They admit failure to this idea working because they didn't account for how much money people have in Null sec. Some players have enough isk to play the game for free for 77 years and buy an officer fit titan every one of those 77 years. You think a guy like this is effected by a Sov change? ok am i done for now getting tired its 3 am in Cali.
What has 0.0 renters to do with F2P accounts and why would you want to make EVE like a mobile game for a 12 y.o with mums credit card? Are you also suggesting to use new players in F2P accounts as targets for vets? (thought that is considered griefing even by EVE standards)
Have you actually played EVE?
The complexity is what makes it different and interesting, although they act like 4 y.o most of the time the eve player base is actually very intelligent - just look how long it takes them to find exploits or "features" and abuse the sh*t out of them.
The learning curve is steep because its complex - that whats puts new players off. No amount of new player experience will keep players that want instant gratification - eve is a long term hobby by design (I assume).
But then again I seem to be the only one here that doesn't have a job in the gaming industry so what do I really know.
*edited - typo |
Luscius Uta
156
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:19:58 -
[308] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
again what is more important, people who happily pay subscriptions for themselves and dozens of alts and have been playing for years or the people who just cry because they cant afford 9.99 and want everything for free and really only stay in the game for a month because they cant make enough to buy a plex? seriously are you complaining about 9.99 a month? a pint in the pub now costs more than that.
lower subscription costs = not enough money going to ccp, meaning lack of support, features etc etc the list goes on, go f2p and you will lose most of the current playerbase and have to find constant scrubs who will play for maybe 2 months then go somewhere else, yay you killed eve because you are a scrub
Totally the first fictional people, of course! Because CCP did their best to drive them out of the game - first they nerfed jump ranges so people unsubbed their super toons, knowing they can't move their super without getting Sholupen'd, and then they banned input broadcasting. Now there's plenty of people who used to have 10 or more accounts, and they unsubbed each and every one of them. With the way the things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if CCP bans alts of any kind one day...after all, the number of active accounts can't sink much lower. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1494
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:20:39 -
[309] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:And you are one who is clueless as to what makes a company successful as well. Perfect. The programmer who fancies himself an artist who has no idea what makes a company money. I hope someone like you never works for me! If you disagree with this, feel free to tell me what game you have designed that has been regarded as one of the top MMOs for well over a decade. This, all day long. I deal with this every freaking day at work. So many geniuses who have zero concept of how business actually works. Usually coupled with poor interpersonal skills. Subscription model is not the barrier to new player recruitment and retention. The barrier is complexity and the nature of a sandbox. That's why in-game efforts to support, encourage and enable new players (CAS Combat Day anyone?) matter to new player retention while half-baked schemes to change the nature of the game do not. I spend a lot of time supporting in-game activities (content) that support new players, because that helps the game. F2P fixes nothing about the actual barriers (complexity + sandbox). Because it is a sandbox, it in fact opens the game to abuse on a massive scale. Something the OP seems utterly incapable of comprehending. This is a huge complex game that rewards long term involvement, not a tower defence game on a mobile phone. EVE is much less complex now than it was 5 or more years ago. So how about you explain this chart to us "clueless" people: http://i.imgur.com/BiQnoVp.png Ok last one I am falling over... and cant even read what I am typing. That chart represents a complete and utter failure in game design decisions, product decisions, 100 million dollars in subscription money going to WoD, along with the founders and inventors of Eve leaving CCP to go start a new VR company. The people with core vision of the product we have loved this many years left right when that chart starts to look bad for CCP. All for now my wife is already pissed.
already showed you the financial report for ccp and 100mil was nowhere near the amount spent writing off wod and dust so maybe you should do a bit of research before conjuring up silly numbers because people who play eve are not really that stupid
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:23:40 -
[310] - Quote
Verstal wrote: CCP design decisions haven't had the goal of putting new fun into the game but breaking up groups that play for free and dont pay them anything.
So you dont even understand how the plex system works and that CCP does not loose money but instead even get more money through plex ?
Verstal wrote: The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. CCP needs plan to take note of these trends in some cases match them Eve, not by destroying the product but shape it so new players will find something they like enough to give the game some effort over other products.
So one last time. EvE is a game for people who dont want a easy to learn game and instand gratification. The entire exsisting playerbase is playing it because of that.
You cant save EvE by attacking the very core of why the exsisting player base is playing it. We are oldshool hardcore players. If people like us are a gaming dinosaur then so be it. One day we might go extinct. But if we go, we do it with pride and our heads up high and not betray the very core of what we are. |
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1494
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:27:34 -
[311] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
again what is more important, people who happily pay subscriptions for themselves and dozens of alts and have been playing for years or the people who just cry because they cant afford 9.99 and want everything for free and really only stay in the game for a month because they cant make enough to buy a plex? seriously are you complaining about 9.99 a month? a pint in the pub now costs more than that.
lower subscription costs = not enough money going to ccp, meaning lack of support, features etc etc the list goes on, go f2p and you will lose most of the current playerbase and have to find constant scrubs who will play for maybe 2 months then go somewhere else, yay you killed eve because you are a scrub
Totally the first fictional people, of course! Because CCP did their best to drive them out of the game - first they nerfed jump ranges so people unsubbed their super toons, knowing they can't move their super without getting Sholupen'd, and then they banned input broadcasting. Now there's plenty of people who used to have 10 or more accounts, and they unsubbed each and every one of them. With the way the things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if CCP bans alts of any kind one day...after all, the number of active accounts can't sink much lower.
i dont know anyone who has unsubbed a super alt because of this change, so yeah out of all these accounts you mention that have been banned and unsubbed, eve still pulls in 39k+ players on a good weekend, supers are still dying on zkillboard, people have a chance to fight more without the worry of just being roflstomped by capitals, input broadcasting needed to go. changes ccp have made recently are a good decision
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
206
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 10:54:20 -
[312] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:EVE is much less complex now than it was 5 or more years ago. So how about you explain this chart to us "clueless" people: http://i.imgur.com/BiQnoVp.png
No, you explain it. Obviously you think you know the answers. Or just keep on trolling.
Verstal wrote:That chart represents a complete and utter failure in game design decisions, product decisions, 100 million dollars in subscription money going to WoD, along with the founders and inventors of Eve leaving CCP to go start a new VR company.
An overly simplified and very one-sided view.
External competition, the fickle nature of audiences, slowdown in the global economy meaning less disposable income to spend on entertainment for millions of people, staff turnover...all of these things are factors for any business in what is basically the entertainment industry.
Yes, CCP made some bad bets (WoD, Dust on console) easily recognized as such in hindsight. The consequences of those bets impact the company thus EVE.
CCP has made lots of design decisions about EVE over the lifetime of the game. It's what players have done with them that make them "good" or "bad." Both perceptions depend entirely on the observer's point of view.
But in business, if you want to survive, let alone grow, you have to make bets from time to time. You have to roll the dice.
Sometimes you lose.
That chart also happens to show that over time, the overall trend is upwards. For 12 years.
Don't fall for the fallacy that there is some simple cause > effect to player numbers shrinking (at the moment) that can be solved with some simple design change. I hear that kind of "la la land" BS all the time from developers.
Reality is, as always, far more complicated.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Luscius Uta
158
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:55:19 -
[313] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:
So one last time. EvE is a game for people who dont want a easy to learn game and instand gratification. The entire exsisting playerbase is playing it because of that.
You cant save EvE by attacking the very core of why the exsisting player base is playing it. We are oldshool hardcore players. If people like us are a gaming dinosaur then so be it. One day we might go extinct. But if we go, we do it with pride and our heads up high and not betray the very core of what we are.
Can't speak in Verstal's name (I'm not his alt ofc) but I totally don't have a problem with that, and I didn't suggest any gameplay changes that would give instant gratification, only a revision of the subscription model that would make new players more likely to at least give the game a try for few weeks - yes I know most of them will go but nobody will stay only if you don't try to bring anyone in. My problem is with the vets who are unsubbing (doesn't matter if you don't personally know any of them, since the numbers in the chart I linked prove otherwise), and if you can't bring them back (which would probably be preferrable) at least find a way to attract some new blood. Therefore the real question is how you're going to increase player numbers (if that's what anyone other than Verstal and me in this thread even want) without flattening the learning curve EVE is (in)famous for.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
347
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Posted - 2015.09.10 10:57:36 -
[314] - Quote
Verstal wrote:Webvan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:if eve went f2p i would quit, so would my alts which pay subscriptions and i also buy plex for real money. so what is more important, players who stay in the game long term or people like your friends who will play for a few months and move onto some other flavour of the month f2p mmo? Don't worry, CCP already said some years back that it wouldn't be possible for EVE. It's not technically possible and would have had to be done pre-launch by design. I completely agree with them, it's not possible by the design architecture of EVE, and there is no magic wand to do such a thing w/o destroying the game as it is; what makes EVE, EVE. CCP design decisions haven't had the goal of putting new fun into the game but breaking up groups that play for free and dont pay them anything. Very bad tactic since the people who are playing for free are supporting the community by providing attractive game play to a large percentage of the active population. This tactic could be viable but needs to be based on a product that has a higher percentage of players staying to play to replace the old vets. CCP knows this its why CCP has spent 12 years redoing the new player experience over and over and over again so they can keep reusing the same content as new players join the community and older players leave. This hast worked the Vets love Eve so much have so much time invested they never want it end, some pay RL rent off CCP isk. The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. CCP needs plan to take note of these trends in some cases match them Eve, not by destroying the product but shape it so new players will find something they like enough to give the game some effort over other products. Listen to the dev interviews and watch the Fanfest VOD's again, they thought that by forcing Null Sec to pay rent would cause the break up that was 3-4 years ago, everyone knew it wouldn't work then. You cant force people to fight each other, the players will always work together against the dev when the chips are down and backs are against the wall. RAWR! They admit failure to this idea working because they didn't account for how much money people have in Null sec. Some players have enough isk to play the game for free for 77 years and buy an officer fit titan every one of those 77 years. You think a guy like this is effected by a Sov change? ok am i done for now getting tired its 3 am in Cali.
you sir are a complete and utter tool. you've a flavour of ignorance for everything said here. you just want to rant on like a gobshite.
but this line,, sums it all up..
"because they didn't account for how much money people have in Null sec"
the devs,, those that write the code,, didn't account for what was in peoples wallets. hahahahahahahahaha go to bed,, you're drunk! |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
206
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:04:42 -
[315] - Quote
Verstal wrote:The development world has continued to raise the bar by offering easier to learn games with more instant gratification. CCP needs plan to take note of these trends in some cases match them Eve, not by destroying the product but shape it so new players will find something they like enough to give the game some effort over other products.
This is actually the core fallacy at the heart of your bad thinking on this.
The "development world" is cranking out dime-a-dozen F2P mobile phone games to cater to a totally different market segment than EVE aims for.
EVE is not designed for that demographic.
Get it?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Luscius Uta
160
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:10:51 -
[316] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:EVE is much less complex now than it was 5 or more years ago. So how about you explain this chart to us "clueless" people: http://i.imgur.com/BiQnoVp.png No, you explain it. Obviously you think you know the answers. Or just keep on trolling.
No I don't. The only thing I know is that EVE is dying, and that the Internet is full of people who will call you a troll when they can't prove you wrong. I don't have answers, only suggestions. But having a suggestion on this forum is usually a bad idea and will get you mocked, or called a troll. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13870
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:12:39 -
[317] - Quote
Verstal wrote:ok am i done for now getting tired its 3 am in Cali. The unique thing about the EVE community compared to most mmo's... well speaking of old-school mmo's as EVE is, is that EVE doesn't suffer from serious turnover issues among 2+ year vets. Well, old-school mmo's have less of a problem with that as well now, but in comparison to the way pre-f2p era player retention and turnover worked across the genre (not counting WoW).
There are those that quit, but many or most return. I think it's sort of like tossing a bird out of a boat to find land, but there is none so they return. Some even delete their character, transfer them, give everything away, but then they wind up coming right back and do it all over again. Not just account age, but poor sods that put a couple active years in, there is no hope.
A lot of the turnover you see are newer subs, six months or a year of activity. And traditionally, three to six months were the avg for player retention in old mmo's back in the day. Most do leave, that was true of UO, DAoC, EQ etc, at about six month if they had a subscription. Though back then there was less to leave to while today the market is absolutely saturated, but still here the vets retain.
Yeah, for all the many vets you see, many-many players that started with them didn't stick around to the 2yr mark, that is the history of mmo's in general. The vets you see here today, if things don't change too much with bad ideas, will likely still be here in ten years, just like some old MUD's that still run subscription servers. UO, DAoC, EQ and such games, yes they have less players, but mostly because at some point in development they changed direction, changed their vision of the game, worried too much about newbies and not their bread and butter vets. So they suffered tremendous loss with no great recovery.
SWG probably one of the best examples of this (yes I know I play the SWG card much ). Be it fast or slow, though it was fast in that case, they blew the vets out of the water and they quit in droves, ~80% sudden subscription drop then slow slide to near nothing. It was all about getting newbies, admittedly by the devs there. Ok so it was done, that was that, now they should expect new play retention to bee off the chart, right? Didn't happen. In fact, game shut down, imo one of the best mmo's ever made, well became trash. Worse case example, but too games like EQ1 did the slow change to the hot new idea, having been at one point the flagship of SOE! SOE is gone... out of business.
History, history, history, it's all over the place beyond just these small examples of what happens when direction changes and how it always ends up. There is always a direction, a theme, a dream, a vision, and players are smart enough to catch onto it when they start a game and spend some time in the environment. The game becomes endearing, a home away from home, and a stable community of friends, enemies and silly npc's we still laugh at and shoot if we can.
f2p is focused on the players that do not stick around for two years. Not even a year. If they can retain a player for a few months, in that time they can possibility get a little money out of them, before they move to the next f2p. And in the ideal cases, the players of those sorts they hope such players will be "whales" that spend thousands, tens of thousands, and some do. The dream, the direction, the vision, what ever the theme. And when that game has run it's course, the devs move to a new game project to do it all over again.
Because there will always be more players that will play a few months compared to the long term players that become vets. Investors and publishers figured that out. How can they ever grab WoW players from their game? Well they don't really need to, there is always some players bored and looking for something to do while they wait for the next WoW expansion. That's where the $$$ is, and why we have see soooooo many WoW cone games, all f2p, a quick cash grab until they burn out and die.
CCP is admittedly in it for the long haul. Jobs in Iceland mean something to them, even if the money comes in slower, but for a long time to come. It's not easy to crank out complicated mmo's one after another to keep money constantly coming in. CCP has a vision, and risking that on something that has a good chance of failing, as others have done, well where then do they find jobs elsewhere after the failure? The country doesn't have a lot of hiring signs on big development studios. As much as you don;t want to move there, they don't want to move away.
So no they won't do it, too much of a gamble, and EVE is really a terrible platform for an f2p convert and they already know that. Closes thing to it is PLEX, and far from anything f2p as it works. If they make another game they could, designed from the ground up as an f2p, but for EVE, it's simply not feasible. And there you have it. ibtl
tl;dr: Just no.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
206
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:16:00 -
[318] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Can't speak in Verstal's name (I'm not his alt ofc) but I totally don't have a problem with that, and I didn't suggest any gameplay changes that would give instant gratification, only a revision of the subscription model that would make new players more likely to at least give the game a try for few weeks - yes I know most of them will go but nobody will stay only if you don't try to bring anyone in. My problem is with the vets who are unsubbing (doesn't matter if you don't personally know any of them, since the numbers in the chart I linked prove otherwise), and if you can't bring them back (which would probably be preferrable) at least find a way to attract some new blood. Therefore the real question is how you're going to increase player numbers (if that's what anyone other than Verstal and me in this thread even want) without flattening the learning curve EVE is (in)famous for.
New players already get a few weeks for free before they have to commit to either sub or grind for PLEX.
I don't believe huge numbers of veteran players are leaving. Some are, of course...because people move on. Yes, a few "bittervets" who only ever actually logged in and played when they got pinged on Jabber for a big fleet fight have left. But the impact of them leaving on the rest of the game is minimal.
I do believe that large numbers of *accounts* have been un-subbed recently.
There are a myriad of reasons for this, including but not limited to:
1. Input multiplexing ban (ISBoxer enthusiasts. There were a lot of them.) 2. The impact of Fozziesov (which is changing a paradigm of how nullsec worked that had been in place for years)
None of this signals the end of EVE. Only a period of change.
Again, I point you at the simple fact that the overall 12 year trend in user numbers is up, not down, and that there have been declines in user numbers before, followed by periods of growth.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
47
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:25:09 -
[319] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Captain Awkward wrote:
So one last time. EvE is a game for people who dont want a easy to learn game and instand gratification. The entire exsisting playerbase is playing it because of that.
You cant save EvE by attacking the very core of why the exsisting player base is playing it. We are oldshool hardcore players. If people like us are a gaming dinosaur then so be it. One day we might go extinct. But if we go, we do it with pride and our heads up high and not betray the very core of what we are.
Can't speak in Verstal's name (I'm not his alt ofc) but I totally don't have a problem with that, and I didn't suggest any gameplay changes that would give instant gratification, only a revision of the subscription model that would make new players more likely to at least give the game a try for few weeks - yes I know most of them will go but nobody will stay only if you don't try to bring anyone in. My problem is with the vets who are unsubbing (doesn't matter if you don't personally know any of them, since the numbers in the chart I linked prove otherwise), and if you can't bring them back (which would probably be preferrable) at least find a way to attract some new blood. Therefore the real question is how you're going to increase player numbers (if that's what anyone other than Verstal and me in this thread even want) without flattening the learning curve EVE is (in)famous for.
New player already can try out the game for a few weeks. The trail account is 30 days. Thats is enough time to decide if you want to throw 10 bucks at the game to try it out another month. F2P will not change that. (Which is by the way still the topic of this thread right?) The way the game itself teaches new player has bin improved a lot over the years and as far as I know CCP has not stopped improving it even further. I dont see a problem here.
If anything, CCP could put a little more advertising out there to raise attention and get more people to try out the game in the first place.
Verstal pulled some wild numbers of 0,1% new player get over 6 months out of his 3 letters and has faild to provide any scource for that claim. The truth is : We have absolutely now idea how many trail accounts make it into played accounts and how many of those payed accounts make it make it over 6 months. And how many of those are actually new players and how many are alt accounts of players that already own a EvE account. |
Luscius Uta
160
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:34:50 -
[320] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:
Verstal pulled some wild numbers of 0,1% new player get over 6 months out of his 3 letters and has faild to provide any scource for that claim. The truth is : We have absolutely now idea how many trail accounts make it into played accounts and how many of those payed accounts make it make it over 6 months.
Indeed, but since CCP is not giving us any subscription-released numbers people will come up with such numbers out of their asses. And since CCP isn't giving us those numbers I'm going to assume they are not going in their favour, until proven otherwise.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1495
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:39:04 -
[321] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Captain Awkward wrote:
Verstal pulled some wild numbers of 0,1% new player get over 6 months out of his 3 letters and has faild to provide any scource for that claim. The truth is : We have absolutely now idea how many trail accounts make it into played accounts and how many of those payed accounts make it make it over 6 months.
Indeed, but since CCP is not giving us any subscription-released numbers people will come up with such numbers out of their asses. And since CCP isn't giving us those numbers I'm going to assume they are not going in their favour, until proven otherwise.
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
348
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Posted - 2015.09.10 11:48:14 -
[322] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
Doom and gloom end timers. the internet is full of them. if it's not an asteroid about to flatten us it's planet x or cerns a portal to hell or some other nutjob shite.
these people should just shut up and play and stop with the END IS NIGH! nonsense.
They're the crazy folk of EVE standing on a corner with a huge sign warning us all that it's all about to END!
hahahahahahaha silly people and their madness. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13871
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Posted - 2015.09.10 12:05:54 -
[323] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
Doom and gloom end timers. the internet is full of them. if it's not an asteroid about to flatten us it's planet x or cerns a portal to hell or some other nutjob shite. these people should just shut up and play and stop with the END IS NIGH! nonsense. They're the crazy folk of EVE standing on a corner with a huge sign warning us all that it's all about to END! hahahahahahaha silly people and their madness. Or because some believe that there is a giant asteroid hurtling towards the Earth and will strike later this month. So there may be some that want to know such things like EVE's current sub numbers before their last screams echo endlessly through time into the void.
Which of course is a vacuum and in space no one can hear your screams so doesn't matter.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
349
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Posted - 2015.09.10 12:18:11 -
[324] - Quote
Webvan wrote:
Or because some believe that there is a giant asteroid hurtling towards the Earth and will strike later this month. So there may be some that want to know such things like EVE's current sub numbers before their last screams echo endlessly through time into the void.
Which of course is a vacuum and in space no one can hear your screams so doesn't matter.
yea i guess i can see how important sub numbers would be with a few million tons of rock about to hot drop us. lol
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Luscius Uta
160
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Posted - 2015.09.10 12:25:36 -
[325] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
Doom and gloom end timers. the internet is full of them. if it's not an asteroid about to flatten us it's planet x or cerns a portal to hell or some other nutjob shite. these people should just shut up and play and stop with the END IS NIGH! nonsense. They're the crazy folk of EVE standing on a corner with a huge sign warning us all that it's all about to END! hahahahahahaha silly people and their madness.
You just gave me an idea for a forum sig, thanks!
Drifters are obviously a ploy by CCP to shut down TQ, station by station, system by system!
Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12349
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Posted - 2015.09.10 12:58:03 -
[326] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
Doom and gloom end timers. the internet is full of them. if it's not an asteroid about to flatten us it's planet x or cerns a portal to hell or some other nutjob shite. these people should just shut up and play and stop with the END IS NIGH! nonsense. They're the crazy folk of EVE standing on a corner with a huge sign warning us all that it's all about to END! hahahahahahaha silly people and their madness.
I'd be willing to bet that people that do that suffer from some sort of anxiety condition (probably mild for most people). But it ain't nothing new lol..
My favorite theory is that people predict the end of things (Earth, EVE, themselves etc) as a way to combat a feeling of helplessness. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
351
|
Posted - 2015.09.10 13:17:53 -
[327] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
but really why do ccp feel they have to give you the numbers? does it affect your own enjoyment of the game not being supplied with these numbers?, its shouldnt because really its none of your business and ccp know this
Doom and gloom end timers. the internet is full of them. if it's not an asteroid about to flatten us it's planet x or cerns a portal to hell or some other nutjob shite. these people should just shut up and play and stop with the END IS NIGH! nonsense. They're the crazy folk of EVE standing on a corner with a huge sign warning us all that it's all about to END! hahahahahahaha silly people and their madness. I'd be willing to bet that people that do that suffer from some sort of anxiety condition (probably mild for most people). But it ain't nothing new lol.. My favorite theory is that people predict the end of things (Earth, EVE, themselves etc) as a way to combat a feeling of helplessness.
that's some list of nutjobs, perhaps it's a need to be never forgotten and this assures that. still pretty funny and nuts all at the same time. |
Salvos Rhoska
1398
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Posted - 2015.09.10 13:28:55 -
[328] - Quote
I just re-read the OP.
I try to be an open minded and considerate reader. But I could not more strongly disagree with the suggestions listed at the end of the post. I could not agree with a single one, and just couldnt believe what I was reading on most of them.
In another thread there has been long discussion about the changing preferences of the typical MMO player.
The kind of priorities and mindset this apparently growing segment of players has, is completely alien to me, and completely contrary to my own views. The logic they have is based on completely different premises to my own.
Maybe Im getting old (35), old-fashioned, unadaptable, or out of touch with whats hip. But I cant agree with any of it, especially not when it applies to EVE. And it seems they cant agree with anynof mine either.
Do they have a say equal to my own? Yes.
But I cant help but think they have lost touch and perspective on what EVE is, and are trying to make it into something it is not.
The worrying part, is there seems to be no possibility of compromise. Our angles and perspectives are too fundamentally different.
PvE v PvP
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2570
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Posted - 2015.09.10 13:32:02 -
[329] - Quote
I'mma stick with my initial reaction here, after all these pages. This is silliness, on a Camelot level.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
351
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Posted - 2015.09.10 14:02:45 -
[330] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I'mma stick with my initial reaction here, after all these pages. This is silliness, on a Camelot level.
it's a very silly place you know
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12351
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Posted - 2015.09.10 14:18:47 -
[331] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I just re-read the OP.
I try to be an open minded and considerate reader. But I could not more strongly disagree with the suggestions listed at the end of the post. I could not agree with a single one, and just couldnt believe what I was reading on most of them.
In another thread there has been long discussion about the changing preferences of the typical MMO player.
The kind of priorities and mindset this apparently growing segment of players has, is completely alien to me, and completely contrary to my own views. The logic they have is based on completely different premises to my own.
Maybe Im getting old (35), old-fashioned, unadaptable, or out of touch with whats hip. But I cant agree with any of it, especially not when it applies to EVE. And it seems they cant agree with anynof mine either.
Do they have a say equal to my own? Yes.
But I cant help but think they have lost touch and perspective on what EVE is, and are trying to make it into something it is not.
The worrying part, is there seems to be no possibility of compromise. Our angles and perspectives are too fundamentally different.
I despise most other MMOs. I dislike most MMO players I've met. I play EVE because it's not like other MMOs and most EVE players I've met (online and in person) aren't like players I've met (online and in person) in other games (never met the guy in that link, but omg is he like soooo many MMO nerds I know lol). I respond...negatively...when people advocate for the watering down of EVE into just another stale, player coddling MMO.
For me It has little to do with age and everything to do with mindset and preferences. I prefer the EVE way, and as you say, that way is incompatible with other ways. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
231
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Posted - 2015.09.10 15:27:13 -
[332] - Quote
Verstal wrote: I go into great detail how I softened my stance, and why. If you have constructive feedback and how to keep more the .1% of new player past 3 months then lets hear it or break down each idea on the front page and give an alternative.
Open rookie chat and help some new players learn the game? Give it an hour. People that want to learn that are trying to learn are in the process of learning right now. I am sure 1000+ people in rookie chat.
But your stance still is FTP..... Now when i started in 2010, i almost quit because rookie chat is useless beyond a certain point. The only thing that has saved me was running into someone in RL that got me into a player corp.....a PLAYER corp, where i learned a lot, and began to love this game for its complexity.
As to training people.....well on this character i have a good track record, nearly everyone that i have taught things too have stayed in game where RL things have not prevented them from playing. A few are avid FW players, a couple went out to nullseec, 1 became a career ganker, and few otheres are decent Manufacturers.....oh yeah one even became a well off station trader.....
The point is I dont need to go into rookie chat, and all my students are multi-billionares, and plex holders able to leave the nest and Play EvE standing on their own two feet.....what Rookies need to do is get out of their damn shell and find corps/players like myself willing to teach them......but first they must learn in EvE you have to take that plunge, you have to get into player corps, you have to be involved in the community in one way or another......in the game you are a Capsuleer....you can not die, and ships, gear, and Isk are very easy to come by.....once you learn how to get them.
So rookie chat....yeah im not a professor that stands in front of a class of 300 knowing that only 1 student will get a job after achieving their .10 degree, I am an in the Field professional that will show things hands on instead that will hire and keep the ones capable of doing the job and firing all the rest.
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
173
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Posted - 2015.09.10 15:34:03 -
[333] - Quote
Quote: 3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
The Purpose of this Thread has been served, and at this point has turned into petty squabbling for many pages at this point. Locked.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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