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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.24 09:22:00 -
[181]
Edited by: DNightmare on 24/01/2007 09:19:25
Hacking V, Archaology V here. And NO, I don't get every single bit of loot I find on the Cargo Scanner (Hell yeah, I would be rich & famous if I did :P)
€dit: I even get an empty can from time to time.
o/
DN
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.01.24 10:54:00 -
[182]
Also, I don't see how you're tying "unintended" and "only" together there in any meaningful way, given that the two quotes are talking about totally different things and one isn't even a quote because I can't find the source :P
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Dreamdancer
Minmatar
Ceryshen Strategic Analysis
Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2007.01.24 15:12:00 -
[183]
I have 2 accounts with a primary character on each.
Account #1: Salvage 5, Arch 3, Hack 4
Account #2: Salvage 5, Arch 2, Hack 0
Found a Arc/Sal/Pro site in a 0.8 system. There was a handful of low end rats easily dispatched. 1 salvage can and 3 arch cans.
Cargo scanned the salvage can (Angel Waste) Saw a couple very low end salvage bits. First character salvages the can and gets nothing. Second character salvages the can and gets nothing. So two lvl 5 salvage skilled character got nothing on a very low end salvage container.
Scanned each of the arch cans. 2 had low end salvage in them and one had nothing. Yup Salvage bits in a can that required the Analyzer I and Arch skill to access. Accessed all 3 cans. First can double failure. Second (the one that showed empty) also double failure. The last can had the most salvage in it according to the scanner I had the lower Arch skill level guy attempt first and he got everything.
This is the 4th time I have had this exact thing happen. The first cans checked, whether empty or not, I have received nothing and the last can I get everything inside.
Working on getting my second character the Hacking skill. Working on Electronics Upgrades 5 currently.
We are recruiting! |
Grimtor
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:17:00 -
[184]
I'm still reading through all of this thread but wanted to know do these hidden sites MOVE or are they static? I assume they move, but if so do we have any idea on what triggers them to move and how often they do so?
Thanks, I'm having a great time hunting them down. I've only found one so far (A hidden asteroid belt) but had a great time doing it and made a good profit from it too. :D
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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:36:00 -
[185]
The DEspawn once someone completes them (or maybe after very long time and noone has found it). Until then, they won't move.
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.24 18:20:00 -
[186]
 Originally by: DNightmare
Edited by: DNightmare on 24/01/2007 09:19:25
Hacking V, Archaology V here. And NO, I don't get every single bit of loot I find on the Cargo Scanner (Hell yeah, I would be rich & famous if I did :P)
Çdit: I even get an empty can from time to time.
o/
DN
Awesome, that's all I was looking for. I'm gonna stop putting a cargo scanner on my ship. It's just plain depressing when you see something there that you cannot get to.
Dreamdancer û Thank you as well. I appreciate you taking the time to test my hypothesis where I could not.
Joerd û IÆm sorry I wasnÆt clear on that. I was commenting on the fact that one dev was talking about an ôunintendedö module effect/use came up with their Exploration sites, and a different dev was talking about an ôonlyö module effect/use. Like I said, I just wanted confirmation rather than another ôhypothesisö. I already had a hypothesis, one that has now been clearly decided to my satisfaction: Loot is chance based and skill based. You have to admit Joerd, for all that they made the game, there are quite a few dynamics that catch the devs by surprise.
yet another question û You (Joerd) mentioned Hacking III being needed for certain cans. Are there also cans that have Hacking IV or V requirements? Likewise with IV and V, of course.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.24 18:26:00 -
[187]
Originally by: DNightmare
The DEspawn once someone completes them (or maybe after very long time and noone has found it). Until then, they won't move.
I ran across an odd situation that don't recall seeing mentioned that relates to this. I ran down a Gravimetric signal that led me to a EXPLORATION - SMALL - GNEISS site. However, there were no Gneiss asteroids.
There hadn't been anyone else in system while I was scanning, so it couldn't be that someone finished mining it while I tracked it down. There was one destructible object in there, but I wouldn't expect that to "anchor" a deadspace and keep it from despawning once the 'roids were mined out.
Maybe just an oddity, but I didn't have the firepower to take down the object (a cathedral ruin or somesuch) efficiently so I just left it alone.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.01.24 21:48:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Simon Jax
Joerd û IÆm sorry I wasnÆt clear on that. I was commenting on the fact that one dev was talking about an ôunintendedö module effect/use came up with their Exploration sites, and a different dev was talking about an ôonlyö module effect/use. Like I said, I just wanted confirmation rather than another ôhypothesisö. I already had a hypothesis, one that has now been clearly decided to my satisfaction: Loot is chance based and skill based. You have to admit Joerd, for all that they made the game, there are quite a few dynamics that catch the devs by surprise.
yet another question û You (Joerd) mentioned Hacking III being needed for certain cans. Are there also cans that have Hacking IV or V requirements? Likewise with IV and V, of course.
The "unintended" effect was to do with cargo scanners. The "only" was to do with a completely different mechanic. If you want to say that sometimes the devs do things which have unintended consequences and that that should be borne in mind, that's fine. However, I don't see how things could have occurred such that your skill level by some "unintended" mechanism suddenly affects the quality or quantity of your loot drop. It just doen't make any sense.
As to hacking etc, I have level 3 in all three miniprofessions and have found no cans that I can't open. Given that (the skill req nerf for salvaging aside) the mechanics and implementation of each profession are effectively identical, it should be possible to extrapolate from one to the others, if not conclusively then at least in support of a working hypothesis. In this case salvaging 1 is required for wrecks of all T1 ships and basic NPCs, salvaging 2 makes no difference to the ability to salvage anything and salvaging 3 lets you salvage all T2, faction and officer wrecks. As there are no "better" wrecks this suggests that there are two capability thresholds - level 1 and level 3 - and this supports empirical evidence obtained from the other two professions.
If someone does find a can that a level 3 skill can't access then I'll rethink that, but for now it seems a fairly solid conclusion.
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.24 23:51:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Simon Jax on 24/01/2007 23:50:40
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
As to hacking etc, I have level 3 in all three miniprofessions and have found no cans that I can't open. Given that (the skill req nerf for salvaging aside) the mechanics and implementation of each profession are effectively identical, it should be possible to extrapolate from one to the others, if not conclusively then at least in support of a working hypothesis. In this case salvaging 1 is required for wrecks of all T1 ships and basic NPCs, salvaging 2 makes no difference to the ability to salvage anything and salvaging 3 lets you salvage all T2, faction and officer wrecks. As there are no "better" wrecks this suggests that there are two capability thresholds - level 1 and level 3 - and this supports empirical evidence obtained from the other two professions.
If someone does find a can that a level 3 skill can't access then I'll rethink that, but for now it seems a fairly solid conclusion.
It's likely that I'm cynical, but all I really wanted to be sure that the hacking / archaeology / salvage was working as intended. Sounds like it does, so I'm happy.
It stands to reason that at some point down the road there will be something that requires the Access skills at level V. Maybe another 'tier' to the loot beyond the two that exist now, or just something that gets changed around as they refine the Exploration mechanic. But it certainly doesn't sound like there's much of a reason to take hacking and archaeology beyond level III, which is what I really wanted to know.
I'm certainly taking the Cargo Scanner off my ship though. Last night I saw an Interface BPC in the loot table (in a 0.3 system!). There are times when it's just better to not know.
As an aside, I was all ticked off when they nerfed the skill requirements for Salvage from Survey V to Survey III until I saw that Survey V was a pre-req for Archaeology. Made me feel a whole lot better about what I thought had been a 'lost' week of skill training.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Gabriel Blade
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Posted - 2007.01.25 02:03:00 -
[190]
I tracked down a grav signature today in a 0.5 system, which turned out to be a "Small Hemorphite, Jaspet, Kernite" field, at least that was what it was labeled. When I actually arrived, however, there were no mineable asteroids of any kind. There were a few barren/hollow asteroids as well as a wrecks shuttle all of which were apparently cosmetic.
I would recommend to any devs who might read this post that empty deadspace complexes like this be removed from the game. Exploration is a time consuming task, and while there is rightly an aspect of gambling to it I don't think it's necessary to include an absolutely worthless result as a possible outcome.
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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.25 10:47:00 -
[191]
Those completly empty Exploration Sites, seem to sum up in the last couple of weeks, reports of this mainly started after the last 24hrs DBase Downtime.
Before that date, I didn't have a single, not despawning after completition, Site.
Now I get 4-5 in a row when digging thru a constellation.
It's still unknown if you can do anything against it or what causes all this, but hopefully it will get fixed soon... Till then, it's all about keeping cool and just continue to look for the next and hopefully not empty, Site.
o/
DN
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.01.25 10:48:00 -
[192]
Yeah, I binned cargo scanners too, because I need the midslots and it's just irritating using them atm :P
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Dreamdancer
Minmatar
Ceryshen Strategic Analysis
Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2007.01.25 13:26:00 -
[193]
I'm keeping the scanner on my ship because if I see a really good item in a can that I can't get I'll be calling across my alliance chat asking for people who have the skills and are nearby to come give it a shot.
Those invention related bpc's seem to be 3 run bpc's. Thus if one of those are there and someone else can pry it out I should get one run for myself. 
We are recruiting! |
Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.01.25 13:44:00 -
[194]
Hmmm this all seems to be very time intensive and of cause ...
buggy.
Saying this after spending several hours on a radar signature.
... rince and repeat this several days.
But i want the big hit, so i have to move on 
Or give us new celestial types, hmmm lets say Black holes, we can put probes, isk ,ships and our brain in 
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Eau Tete
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Posted - 2007.01.25 18:54:00 -
[195]
HMM I have found a lot of player corporations sites and lost drones in a 0.6 world. Haven't received my short range probes by courier yet so haven't been beyond quest probes
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.25 23:53:00 -
[196]
I think part of the reason CCP put the Exploration piece into the game was to help them clean up space. Sure, it's nice to grab those drones or, if you feel the urge, pop someone's safespotted shuttle ... but really, it's just janitorial work that we don't get paid for!
We should form a union.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
KnightTemplar
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Posted - 2007.01.28 03:51:00 -
[197]
Thanks for the guide, man. On my second exploration attempt I found an 'Exploration - Medium - Omber' using only 1 multispec, 1 gravi pursuit probe and like 6 snoops (only had astrometrics II, couldn't use the other probe types).
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Reysing Tafe
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Posted - 2007.01.28 16:26:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Gabriel Blade
I tracked down a grav signature today in a 0.5 system, which turned out to be a "Small Hemorphite, Jaspet, Kernite" field, at least that was what it was labeled. When I actually arrived, however, there were no mineable asteroids of any kind. There were a few barren/hollow asteroids as well as a wrecks shuttle all of which were apparently cosmetic.
...
I (well, my alt actually ) had something similar, though is was in low sec, and it was a "Medium Gneiss, Ochre and Crokite Belt". But before arriving to that pile of structures with no roids, this is what happened: A sift probe gave me a hit with a accuracy of 350 km. I warped to spot, and 400 km further I see the 0.0 roids, in the very same grid I warped in. Thinking 'Hooray, I got it', I bookmarked one of the roids, warped out, and warped in again... and then I came in near the worthless structures, no roids to be seen. And there was no way to warp to the roids anymore... (because I triggered the deadspace pocket). Btu I knew they were there somewhere, cause I had seen them...
So I figured I was coping with an off-grid belt. Being in a deadspace I couldn't warp to it, so I fitted my interceptor with a AB (MWD don't work there) and started cruising around the worthless structures for 100s of kms, looking for the roids in the other grid ... and I found them, more than 400 km from the warp in point. It took me 1 hour to get my mining ship there, 3 hours to mine. I was hoping that the deadspace would pop after the last mined roid so I could warp my hauler straight to the cans... well, the deadspace didn't pop, onfortunately... I'll let it to your own imagination how I managed to haul all the stuff... Tractor Beams FTW.
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Wizzkidy
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Posted - 2007.01.29 09:28:00 -
[199]
Well here are my findings so far
x5 Grav Sig's and out of them all I narrowed them all down
x3 Lader Sig's and out of them I found 2. (the 3rd I scanned and scanned for 3 hours with no result)
out of them all only 2 have not been run or have something in them.
Can you say bugged at all? Maybe the patch will clear this up I dunno but its kinda sucky
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Bakterienschleuder
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Posted - 2007.01.29 11:33:00 -
[200]
Dont read the whole thread but hopefully some1 can answer some questions.
Are there any structures in a Profession/Plex that has something usefull in or lead you to another location?
If yes do i use an analyzer or breaker for it then?
My findings:
A lot of Magneto/Ladar/Radars and some Gravi (1 Large Arkonor/Mercox/Bistot, and some smaller)
3x Unknown's all empty
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Eewec Ourbyni
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.29 12:06:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Eewec Ourbyni on 29/01/2007 12:06:29
So... Hmm.
I have;
Astrometrics lvl 4
Astrometric Pinpointing lvl 3
Astrometric Triangulation lvl 3
Hacking lvl 3
Archeology lvl 3
Mining out the ying yang (I'm a miner normally!)
I have a few Codebreaker I's and a couple of Analyzer I's and a Scan probe launcher or two (can never have enough spares) and a few Osprey's thus kitted out for probing/hacking/archeology with a mining barge and stuff on standby once I get a 0km reading (depending on the reading).
I now have some multispectral (sounds like a strange form of ghost) probes and once DT is over I'm off to try my first bought of scanning.
I gather that I need some other probes to narrow down the location, which is fine, and that I'll need to be at one with the system map to place the first lot of probes.
1st Question: Do I need to actually go to the location I want a probe, or is there a left click option somewhere to launch the drone so it flies there itself?
2nd Question: Have we worked out which type of probe works best to find mining/hacking/archeology sites?
3rd Question: 115K ISK for 1 probe.... there had better be something worth it at the end... ok so that wasn't so much a question.
4th Quesiton: Is there anything I'm missing or anything else I should check for other than my list of stuff at the top to deal with these three types of site?
EDIT: and he flickes to the other thread about probing... to find most of his questions answered.... doh!
This is a sig...
-- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio --
... good, ain't it! |
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.29 12:58:00 -
[202]
Answer to Eewec
1. Drop Multispectral anywhere in system. If it picks up a sig, use that type and cover as many planets as possible - have to warp to each I'm afraid - use system map for fastest route
2. Radar = Hacking, Magnometric = Archeolgoy/Salvaging, Gravametric = asteriod belts, Ladar/Unknown = complexes
3. You don't always get a good result, especialy in high sec, and you can use many probes to find a site. 1 Multi, plus 3 to 9 quest, may need more than 1 set for tough to find sites, worst I've used is 3 sets so far, 0 - 2 pursuit / combs, depending on accuracy, and 1 - 6 (worst I've had so far) sifts, so a really tough to find site in a big system, with bad rolls could be 25 - 30 probes worst case. Often however you will use as little as 4 in a small system with good rolls. This is with Astro 4, Others at 3.
Also quite a few sites are empty, and even those that aren't don't contain much. I found 2 Hacking and 1 Arc/Sal sites over the weekend. None run before - I had to kill the rats - 70k bouties between the 3 sites, got 1x750k decrypter from the 8 cans in the 2 hacking sites, 4x900k salvage parts and 8x20k salvage parts from the arc/sal site. Then found a medium omber roid belt and got 21 million of ore from it! So it goes - but ore belts seem to remain after mining, so you might find them empty sometimes!
Also found a haunted yard (bugged drone site) which was empty too. 4 more sigs in constellation to find, 2 unknown, 2 gravs (think I'll be mining a lot this week)
------------------------------------------------
Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
FuzzBuzz
Caldari
Templars of Space
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 13:52:00 -
[203]
ok just went on sisi yo check the material needs for a exploartion probe and they dont need any stront, nano, and hyper minerals, will this be the same on tranquility tomorrow as i have about 15m in those materials :)
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alcohorik
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Posted - 2007.01.29 14:46:00 -
[204]
Hi loving the exploration stuff and annoying everyone in the explo channel However i am really annoyed at the fact you get no rewards from hidden complex's?? TO CCP
what is the point in having these in game? surely it would be better to include a chance based system where you may or may not get a reward for clearing the plex bit like the other sites? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that feels this way.....TBH if they do not change this in some way shape or form i think myself and many more will give up what has become a really interesting part of the game.
PLEASE DO SOMETHING CCP
in the meantime where did i put them quests.......
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snakebreath
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Posted - 2007.01.30 10:23:00 -
[205]
Edited by: snakebreath on 30/01/2007 10:19:51
Originally by: alcohorik
Hi loving the exploration stuff and annoying everyone in the explo channel However i am really annoyed at the fact you get no rewards from hidden complex's?? TO CCP
what is the point in having these in game? surely it would be better to include a chance based system where you may or may not get a reward for clearing the plex bit like the other sites? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that feels this way.....TBH if they do not change this in some way shape or form i think myself and many more will give up what has become a really interesting part of the game.
PLEASE DO SOMETHING CCP
in the meantime where did i put them quests.......
It aready is chanced based on finding something from the cans in explore sites. High hacking/arch skills help too. Although I would like to see the drop rate raised a tad bit,but there is still a chance.
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JLBane
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Posted - 2007.01.31 12:44:00 -
[206]
Haunted Yard - post update.
We re-entered "Haunted Yard" last night and got a nasty shock. As reported previously, before the patch the site was devoid of life and only a shuttle wreck, drone silo and a few leaking casks were present.
Thanks to Kali the site now has a plethora of evil drones that cost my corp colleague 2 cruisers and I almost lost my Enyo. There are worker drones, builder drones, corporate worker drones, webbing and jamming drones, etc - about 15 or 16 in total.
Be warned!
Anyway, on a more positive note, prior to the update we found that using a cargo scanner on the leaking casks revealed their contents which included a 1st Tier overseer's personal effects and some other random junk. The most interesting item was a damaged keycard which suggests there could be an escalation path.
Now to get the damn casks open...
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Brazz SilverPocket
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:29:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Brazz SilverPocket on 31/01/2007 16:26:32
Thanks for the update on "Haunted Yard" JLBane - Now I need to go back and see if the one I found is working now (And hasn't already been run.)
Thanks.
BTW - I found my first Hacking site last night (First that worked anyway) only 2 easily dispatched NPCs guarding 3 Info Shards - two of which were empty, but the third had 57 Current Amplifiers in it. :)
-------------
We must...go now? |
Marco P
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Posted - 2007.01.31 20:40:00 -
[208]
Just to confirm a report above - since the patch a previously cleared (but rewardless) complex has respawned. So any old sites you know of are worth a check!
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:09:00 -
[209]
OMG INFO OVERLOAD!!!!
Wow this is great stuff here (even if 90% of it went straight over my head). I wash there was a way to set up a tutorial specified for what type of site you are planning to hunt (eg. arc, roid, hack etc.)
But to be honest, and I appreciate the time the explorers have taken, I really do, but if I want to hunt asteroid belts it sounds like I'm gonna have to have someone beside me in gang teaching me step by step so I can actually absorb it all. (I'm a doer, not a reader :P)
In spite of my troubles, I salute your contribution to the community.
---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:43:00 -
[210]
I had found a "Dirty Site" while scanning down a RADAR signal last night. Normally, I more or less ignore Unknown signal hits. I thought I'd check it out to see if they had improved these sites as promised.
Indeed they did. I found myself facing a couple dozen rogue drones frigates, and three rogue drone cruisers that gave me a whole lot more trouble than I expected. I managed to clear them out (flying an Ishkur with good drones and salvage gear instead of guns), but there were a few times that I was in trouble. There were two that webbed me and at least one more that scrambled me.
I went ahead and tried salvaging the drones. Lo and behold, drones yielded slavage! Cleared the wrecks and went towards the acceleration gate. Another set of rogue drones spawned ("protectors") shortly followed by another group. Right nasty little bastards, I found myself webbed and scrambled again.
Killed, looted and salvaged them and hit the gate. Being full up on cargo and very low on sleep, I just stayed long enough to see another dozen or so rogue drones and no additonal acceleration gate before heading to station. I might see if it's still there and check it out tonight, but that's the scoop on the Dirty Site that I found.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
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