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Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:00:00 - [1] This guide assumes you've read, digested and understood Hoshi's guide here. I've moved this guide to its own thread to try and separate discussion of exploration from discussion of probing. Also please note that this guide is still INCOMPLETE and will be revised as more data comes in Exploration and probing Kali also introduces proper exploration, in the form of various hidden encounters. These can be any number of things - there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1, which get more interesting and much harder as you move from Empire to Lowsec to 0.0. I've been playing around in a COSMOS constellation in 0.0 and I've found gas clouds (for booster manufacturing), straight-up complexes, archaeological sites full of rig parts and T2 rig BPCs, hidden databanks loaded with invention material, rogue drone outposts, hidden roid fields full of ark and bistot... There's plenty of riches to be found, but you need to use scan probes to do it Basic mechanics Exploration probes use exactly the same mechanics as ship scanning probes - same skills, same equations etc. You need to use a Scan Probe Launcher rather than a Recon Probe Launcher, simply because (as Hoshi says) you can't fit an exploration probe in a Recon Launcher because the probes are too big. Other than that, the basics all work the same way. Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. There may be multiple sites in one system, or there may be none at all. Finding an exploration site Tools Exploration sites cannot be found using the system scanner - you have to probe them down using the exploration probes. These come in four flavours and four ranges: [Type] Quest Probe - 4 au range, 250 points primary sensor strength, 50 points other sensor strength, 2.088 au max scan deviation, 4000 sec flight time. [Type] Pursuit Probe - 2 au range, 500 points primary sensor strength, 100 points other sensor strength, 6,250,000 km max scan deviation, 2000 sec flight time. [Type] Comb Probe - 1 au range, 1000 points primary sensor strength, 200 points other sensor strength, 125,000 km max scan deviation, 1000 sec flight time. [Type] Sift Probe - 0.5au range, 2000 points primary sensor strength, 400 points other sensor strength, 2,500km max scan deviation, 500 sec flight time. The four types available are Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. A Gravimetric Quest Probe will have 250 points of gravimetric sensor strength and 50 points each of Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. There is also one final, very important probe: Multispectral Frequency Probe - 999 au range, 1,000,000 points sensor strength (all types), 600 sec flight time This probe has no deviation, as it doesn't return location-based results. Instead, it will simply tell you if there are any cosmic signatures within its range, and if so what sensor type they are.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:01:00 - [2] Technique Firstly, you need to confirm there's anything worth looking for. Drop a Multispec probe anywhere in the system and do a scan. If it returns no results, the system's empty, so move on. If it returns one or more results, decide which sensor type you're going to look for, destroy the Multispec probe (right-click in the scanner interface and "destroy", otherwise you can't deploy more probes) and start probing. "Unknown" results work equally well with all probe types. It is believed that the different sensor types correspond to different types of site, but there isn't enough data to confirm which are which yet. In order to run down the site, you need to get it in range of a probe. The easiest way to do this is to drop Quest probes of the correct sensor type so they cover every planet in the system. This is easy with outer planets, but with the inner ones you need to think about exactly where you're going to drop for maximum coverage. This may require some bookmarks, and sometimes you just have to compromise and hope you don't get unlucky and have the site in a blindspot. The system map is highly recommended at this stage. Once your probes are down, select them all (ctrl-click) and start analyzing. Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something. Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map, so figure out where it is and try to see how close you can get. The rest is fairly obvious - drop the shortest-range probe you can that'll still scan it, and keep analysing until you get a good result, warp to that, analyse again if necessary... you get the picture. You'll often be able to go from a Quest straight to a Sift, and when you can't a comb will usually work - pursuit probes are generally not that useful. You really need a result with under 100km or so deviation before you can be confident you've found anything. Many sites won't spawn unless you warp into the grid they're in, and as you can't use the directional scanner to find them, if you land in a different grid 400km away you need to reprobe. Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way. Also, if you do decide to park your ship and go in with a pod, make sure not to leave your ship too close - once the deadspace pocket spawns, the usual deadspace rules apply and if your ship is too close you won't be able to warp to it until the site expires Once you've got the bookmark you're basically done with the exploration aspect. Gas clouds aside, the stuff I've found in 0.0 is not suitable for covops ships. Some of the plexes are supposed to be 10/10 equivalent difficulty.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:02:00 - [3] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 17/12/2006 11:07:12 FAQ Can you analyze when cloaked? You can't start the analysis cloaked, but you can uncloak, click "analyze" and then recloak without any problems Can you analyze while warping? No, and if you warp while analyzing it will finish prematurely with no results What does this "module is in use?" thing mean? Why can't I analyze? The probe launcher must finish its launch cycle before you start analyzing. Wait for it to stop flashing green and try again Can I analyze with multiple probes at once? Yes, just control-click them all. Doing this in system map will also show you what your coverage is like. Couldn't you probespam with snoops instead? In theory, yes. In practice I haven't run the numbers on how viable it is, but it's going to use an awful lot of probes You need a lot of probes for exploration and they're really expensive! Well... yes, I guess. The cheapest solution is to buy the BPOs and mine your own stront, at which point they become pretty cheap. But... then you have to go ice mining. Your decision. Can I convo/message you ingame? You're going to anyway I think, but yes, ok. I may however be busy, and I don't have all the answers I know where you can find Gas Cloud Harvester Is but I'm not telling you where I hate you. Oh my god exploration is too boring/hard/time-consuming/unrewarding! News to me. What do you want, a cookie? I quit! Can I have your stuff?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:02:00 - [4] [This space intentionally left blank]
Roxy Kell	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:03:00 - [5] cool
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:15:00 - [6] The use of snoop where an interesting idea for a while but with the release of the multispectral probe it has become mostly redundant. It relied on the fact that you didn't know that what sensor type the object had and because of that couldn't use the correct probe type. With the ability to choose the correct probe type from the get go the speed gain from snoops is all but gone, and all that is left is the increased cost and workload. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.17 13:19:00 - [7] Edited by: DNightmare on 17/12/2006 13:28:00 Originally by: Joerd Toastius You're going to anyway I think, but yes, ok. I may however be busy, and I don't have all the answers Well, nobody can have all answers, but everyone reading this is invited to join the ingame Channel "Exploration" we are around 40 ppl at peak atm who all love Exploration and share every little bit of intel we find. /me hopes to see you around there to, Joerd :) Originally by: Joerd Toastius Technique It is believed that the different sensor types correspond to different types of site, but there isn't enough data to confirm which are which yet. As far as our little Team of Explorers has analyzed this aspect, we have come to the same conclusion. With over 200 results now, our statistic says: Gravimetric -> Hidden Asteroid Belts Magnetrometric -> Profession Sites, mostly mixed ones Like ArcSal = Archeology & Salvaging for example. LADAR -> Complexes RADAR -> Profession Sites, mostly only of one single Profession Type Unknown: We are a bit curious about them, so far 40% of them seem be be the type with which you pinpointed them down (for example, scanning with Gravimetric for an unknow will bring you to a belt) but don't quote me on that one, cause in the other 60% it's indeed "unknown" and totally random. So could be luck with finding the ones related to the Probetype. Another interesting thing is, that the Multi-Speccs don't report how MANY sigs of each types are found in the active System. For example, my Multi-Specc reported Magnetrometric this morning, but after getting no results for around 40minutes with the quests, suddenly there where TWO positive ones, around 9AU apart from eachother, checked again with Multi-Specc -> only 1 entry Magnetrometric! Both where ArcSalv (those type seems quite common in 0.1->0.4) Some more things we get asked quite often in our Channel: How do I find out what the name of this XXX is, I just succesfully pinpointed? When you finally warp to it at 0km, you can open your systemmap and will find a little indicator that tells you the name Ok, but what does "Profession - ArcSal - Base 2 - Lo Sec - Guristas" stand for? Profession -> You found a Profession Site, not a complex or some hidden Belt (kinda hard to guess :P) ArcSal -> This indicates WHAT profession Site you just found, it is either Salvaging/Hacking/Archeology or a mix of two of them Like ArcSal is Archeology & Salvaging Base 2 -> So far we think, it indicates which Skilllevel you need in order to Hack/Analyze/Salvage the Containers in there. (so Base 2 -> you need at least Archeology 2 and Salvaging 2 to get everything out of that one) Lo Sec -> Just look at the Security Rating of the System you just found it ;) Guristas -> The NPC Faction this Site belongs to WTF? I'm analyzing this system now for over one hour, because the Multispec reporterted there is XXX in here, but I get nothing, nada, zero Results with my Quests Not every Signal strenght is so great that your kinda weak Quests Probes will find them on the first try (And it is also chance based, so luck is another factor), but you WILL get an result, maybe just after 1 Hour and 10 Minutes, or after 4 Hours... Also, tha harder itz is to pinpoint it down, most likely the better the reward seems (2 Million Battleships + 16x Datacore - Starship Engineering in 0.5 anyone?) AND hidden belts seem to be the hardest one to pinpoint down so far. Another common mistake is, what Joerd already mentioned, that you didn't Cover the planets right, so if you have a bulk of let's say 5 of them in the middle of the System don't just drop one quest in the middle, instead use BMs to drop the Probes in some Ring AROUND those center planets. Some Screen to give you a picture of what I mean -continued-
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.17 13:28:00 - [8] Edited by: DNightmare on 17/12/2006 13:40:44 Ok, I just found this nice Hacking Site, killed all NPCs guardian the containers and hacked them, but ALL were emtpy. Bug? AFAIK, there are two things that decide what you get: 1st: pure luck ;) 2nd: the relevant Skilllevels you have. (I didn't have a single totally empty Hacking/Archeology Site so far with both skills at V, but I got an empty Salvaging one, cause I only have that one at IV) Why do I need to use a Covert-Ops instead of for example the "Probe" Minmatar Frigate, which is cheaper and also gets a Bonus To Astrometric Stuff? For some of us, that seems quite obvious, but just to write it down and link to it later: A Covert has some major advantages you can't find in ANY other ship: 1st: you can fit Covert-Ops Cloaking devices, which let you warp cloaked & have no speed penalty while cloaked. 2nd: you get the best bonus for Astrometric Stuff so you will have the fastest ship to do Analyzing (With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire) 3rd: My Cheetah (dunno about the other races, but should be the same) has a Warp-Speed of 13.5 AU/Second, that is kinda anoying when making close Bookmarks BUT quite handy if you have to run away from someone chasing you in low-sec/0.0 (as long as it isn't some Interceptor ;)) If I get anymore Intel that is worth sharing, I'll shout ;) Cheers DNightmare
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:51:00 - [9] Good work Joerd! Added the thread to my collection here. Im sure your thread will only become better and better. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:38:00 - [10] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 17/12/2006 19:40:21 @Hoshi fixed @Everyone listen to DNightmare, he knows his stuff @Jim suckup :P {edit} Removed pending further info
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.17 19:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Joerd Toastius @Jim suckup :P Bite me. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Andy Roo Caldari Lunar Dawn Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.12.18 00:46:00 - [12] Thanks for the guide, most useful, finally found a "Radar" after going through 6 systems. Spent ages tracking down an "unknown" but just couldnt find it. Rather annoying, but I will find at least a something. Now to go to Lagcatraz (Jita) to buy me some Radar probes. ---- Not from Omicron Persei 8.
Gentzen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.18 02:17:00 - [13] thx for nice update. additional tips. Once you get a initial contact, you can estimate target's signal size and how many scan do I need with next probe. this calculation is important for mental health. probe graph if distance > 0.858*maxrange, longer range probe is stronger. however using possible strongest probe is usually good idea because you can not know real distance in advance. if signal size is very small and a number of estimated scan times is large and you dont have inifinite money, using longer probe is also good idea because longer range probe has better flight time. # with covops IV and Sig Acq III, I can only one scan with sift probe.
Daron	Posted - 2006.12.18 06:03:00 - [14] Actually, from just the Signal Strength, you can calculate the distance from your probe to the actual site (the real site, not the ghost signature) down to just a couple of meters. We know how Signal Strength is calculated, and the only variables unknown once our results come back are distance to the deadspace and it's visibility (I've forgotten what Hoshi called it, but it's the equivalent of a ship's Radius/Sensor Strength). Anyway, since almost all the locations I've found have either a visibility of 0.1 (combat, profession) or 0.05 (mining), I use these to calculate a distance from probe to site, and it is acurate to within 50 meters or so. It's not especially useful, but it passes the time while you wait for the next 4.9 minutes to pass.
Sae Marr Amarr 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:50:00 - [15] Thank you for this - informative. -
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.18 11:49:00 - [16] Edited by: Hoshi on 18/12/2006 12:15:01 Originally by: Daron To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence. NICE! fits down to the 5th decimal on my sample values. I did know my formula was slightly off and I did test some e^ stuff but I never got it to fit well enough. Edit: Want to take a shot at the accuracy formula while you are at it? :-) The current one I use is a bit too complicated to be likely to be correct. I don't have as many samples here and I can't say they are 100% accurate, this is because the random number involved which means you need to run A LOT of tests to get something close to the correct number. The best fit I currently have is: (0.6 * (Signal Strength ^ 2)) û (1.6 * Signal Strength) + 1) These samples where produced by running 100 scans at each sensor strength and choosing the largest one. If you need an extra sample value close to some specific signal strength just let me know and I'll see what I can do. Signal Strength Max Deviation Multiplier 0.287 0.59165 0.5107 0.338 0.716 0.1514 0.931 0.0178 ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Gentzen probe graph if distance > 0.858*maxrange, longer range probe is stronger. however using possible strongest probe is usually good idea because you can not know real distance in advance. While the graph looks mostly accurate you must have made some mistake in your math, it's > 0.96 of max range not 0.86 where the longer range probe have more strength than the shorter range. Think you forgot to include the strength drop of the shorter range probe as well. I found the same behavior when doing the math on ship probes. Considered including it in my guide but with such a small span where it matters, combined with the fact that it's still better to use the shorter range probe due to it's smaller max scan deviation I decided not to. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:49:00 - [18] Gas Cloud Harvesting This is the info the agents on the gates in COSMOS constellations give you Quote: A Guide To Booster Manufacturing Boosters are made through processing chemicals extracted from special gas clouds which can be found in certain deadspace areas in many regions. Some constellations however are rumored to have massive clouds of a scale not seen anywhere else, for example E-8CSQ, 09-4XV, 9HXQ-G, OK-FEM, Pegasus, Assilot, I-3ODK and 760-9C. Finding these clouds requires the ability to conduct long range scanning, for example via scan probes. Finding them however is not always an easy task, it sometimes requires quite a bit of exploration before one is found. The downside of searching for these clouds is the fact they are mostly located in dangerous pirate infested space. Few if any of these clouds exist in civilized space, having been depleted long ago by the human mega-corporations. Hence searching for them can be quite risky and not recommended except for an experienced combat pilot. To extract the chemicals from the gas clouds, you need a gas cloud harvester module. You also need to find the correct type of gas cloud. Not all clouds have chemicals that the gas cloud harvester can extract, and therefore you might have to go through some trial and error to begin with before you get the hang of gas cloud harvesting. Today most boosters are very much illegal in civilized space, due to the horrible side effects experienced by users during the Great Booster Craze many decades ago. Therefore manufacturing them must be done in lawless space, outside the sphere of power of the major civilized factions. Also anyone caught smuggling illegal boosters into civilized space can face very steep penalties. Manufacturing boosters is set into a few phases. Phase 1 is extracting the material from the gas cloud. Phase 2 is using a starbase with the appropriate structure to process the chemicals and create reactions. Phase 3 is using a station that allows booster manufacturing, stations known as Outposts would work, to process the reaction and create the booster. This will result in the creation of a fairly common booster. With additional work, and the right blueprint and combination of low quality boosters, one can create higher quality versions in the Outpost or starbase laboratory. There's no point talking to these agents until you have a Gas Cloud Harvester I module, which is found through exploration somehow. I don't have one, I'm not sure. You also need the skill, which is found a different way. Without the skill and the module gas clouds are essentially worthless.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.18 13:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 18/12/2006 12:15:01 Originally by: Daron To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence. NICE! fits down to the 5th decimal on my sample values. I did know my formula was slightly off and I did test some e^ stuff but I never got it to fit well enough. Awesome All my exploration numbers are suddenly sensible values like 0.1 rather than throwing out silly decimals and varying for different probes at the same site
Elfman Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.18 13:37:00 - [20] I have spent the last couple of days trying to track down a gravimetric location in haatomo. Launch multi - yep shows up. Fly to outer planets and drop 3*4au probes and 1 4au probe (at a different innder planet each time) and so far nada. when they all time out redo and same result. Any clue to what I am doing wrong? hate to think how much its cost me so far in probes since the last patch but wts lots of ss with shuttles ;) Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Thorny	Posted - 2006.12.18 14:07:00 - [21] I worked most of this out myself, and there are a few things I didn't know all in all cheers for the guide, well written. easy to follow
Ickaruss Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2006.12.18 18:22:00 - [22] A Great guide. I Have only Explored in 0.0 So far finding this very adictive to do and love doing it. My finds so far 4x radar = Hacking sites one had a Bpc 1x Mag = Archelogical 3x Unknown = Complex 3x Grav = Bistot belts
Mara'kull	Posted - 2006.12.19 00:53:00 - [23] Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 01:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Mara'kull Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves
Daron	Posted - 2006.12.19 01:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something. Rather than feed the troll, he's inspired me to post some of that "secret information" he'd prefer people not know. Well, it's not secret, but it was kind of a light-bulb moment for me, and it has made scanning that little bit more enjoyable. The radius/strength ratio of various exploration sites seems to vary with the site's value. For example, an "Exploration Small (Omber)" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.2, while an "Exploration - Large - Omber" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.05. That means it is 4 times harder to scan down the better site (in the above example, with maxed skills and sitting 0km away from the large Omber, you still only have a 15% chance of it showing up on any of your Gravimetric Quest Probe scans - with no skills and sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!). Why was this a light-bulb moment? Because whereas before I would get more and more frustrated when a known Gravimetric Signature picked up with a Multispec simply refused to show up after repeated (ie 20+) Quest scans, it now makes me more and more confident that I've stumbled across one of those harder-to-find sites, and makes me even more determined to find it.
K24Q	Posted - 2006.12.19 02:13:00 - [26] Thanks for this guide, I found my first Profession site today :) unfortunately it had already been harvested, and as I was inspecting it someone else turned up to harvest it. This guide was a great help and especially useful for the 2 hours I sat there getting nothing. Anyway just because you read the guide doesn't mean you be any good at finding these things. It requires alot of patience and determination and it full of setbacks.
Trinity Faetal Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.19 02:22:00 - [27] these posts are very god -- join channel Dope Dealerz if you wanna sell or can supply drugs on a regular basis.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.19 05:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Mara'kull Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves so no stickey for this one? :P btw: updated some more screenies & tipps :) enjoy!
Estan Drake Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Daron Originally by: Joerd Toastius Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something. Rather than feed the troll, he's inspired me to post some of that "secret information" he'd prefer people not know. Well, it's not secret, but it was kind of a light-bulb moment for me, and it has made scanning that little bit more enjoyable. The radius/strength ratio of various exploration sites seems to vary with the site's value. For example, an "Exploration Small (Omber)" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.2, while an "Exploration - Large - Omber" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.05. That means it is 4 times harder to scan down the better site (in the above example, with maxed skills and sitting 0km away from the large Omber, you still only have a 15% chance of it showing up on any of your Gravimetric Quest Probe scans - with no skills and sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!). Why was this a light-bulb moment? Because whereas before I would get more and more frustrated when a known Gravimetric Signature picked up with a Multispec simply refused to show up after repeated (ie 20+) Quest scans, it now makes me more and more confident that I've stumbled across one of those harder-to-find sites, and makes me even more determined to find it. Shhh! don't listen to this man! He is obviously a probe manufacturer trying to increase sales Sorry couldn't help myself, i'm not usually in a position to be a troll. Even if a sarcastic one
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:45:00 - [30] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 19/12/2006 08:50:02 Originally by: Daron Edited by: Daron on 18/12/2006 06:27:23 Actually, from just the Signal Strength, you can calculate the distance from your probe to the actual site (the real site, not the ghost signature) down to just a couple of meters. We know how Signal Strength is calculated, and the only variables unknown once our results come back are distance to the deadspace and it's visibility (I've forgotten what Hoshi called it, but it's the equivalent of a ship's Radius/Sensor Strength). Anyway, since almost all the locations I've found have either a visibility of 0.1 (combat, profession) or 0.05 (mining), I use these to calculate a distance from probe to site, and it is accurate to within 50 meters or so. It's not especially useful, but it passes the time while waiting for the next 4.9 minutes to tick down. --edit-- To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence. Also, the distance in AU is an AU = 149,597,870.691 km (not the rounded 150 that some of EVE's other systems use). This makes sense. That's similar to the formula I discovered that CCP uses to calculate missile damage based upon target speed and missile explosion velocity. The difference being in that formula, they divide the two main variables instead of subtracting them. Missile Damage * (Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius) * *e^( -1 (Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity )^2** / (1500^2) ) = Final Missile Damage CCP seems to really like using logarithmic functions a lot, most likely because it's a great system to do diminishing returns with and is fairly easy to tweak and adjust. I'm not a math major (actually I dropped out of college after failing Calc 3 times), so I'm not sure what that function you guys found looks like when graphed (wheres my graphing calc when I need it), but it certainly seems to fall into CCP's style of game mathematics. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Daron Originally by: Joerd Toastius Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something. Rather than feed the troll, he's inspired me to post some of that "secret information" he'd prefer people not know. Well, it's not secret, but it was kind of a light-bulb moment for me, and it has made scanning that little bit more enjoyable. The radius/strength ratio of various exploration sites seems to vary with the site's value. For example, an "Exploration Small (Omber)" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.2, while an "Exploration - Large - Omber" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.05. That means it is 4 times harder to scan down the better site (in the above example, with maxed skills and sitting 0km away from the large Omber, you still only have a 15% chance of it showing up on any of your Gravimetric Quest Probe scans - with no skills and sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!). Why was this a light-bulb moment? Because whereas before I would get more and more frustrated when a known Gravimetric Signature picked up with a Multispec simply refused to show up after repeated (ie 20+) Quest scans, it now makes me more and more confident that I've stumbled across one of those harder-to-find sites, and makes me even more determined to find it. ...or it could just be that I hadn't figured that bit out yet. Thanks for the info (assuming it holds up), no thanks for the attitude problem :P
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:22:00 - [32] Originally by: DNightmare Ok, but what does "Profession - ArcSal - Base 2 - Lo Sec - Guristas" stand for? Profession -> You found a Profession Site, not a complex or some hidden Belt (kinda hard to guess :P) ArcSal -> This indicates WHAT profession Site you just found, it is either Salvaging/Hacking/Archeology or a mix of two of them Like ArcSal is Archeology & Salvaging Base 2 -> So far we think, it indicates which Skilllevel you need in order to Hack/Analyze/Salvage the Containers in there. (so Base 2 -> you need at least Archeology 2 and Salvaging 2 to get everything out of that one) Got a profession site last night, ArcSal - Base 1. Had lvl 2 salvaging and archeology and could not use the anaylyser on the one container, just returned saying that its too complex for you. So i dont think the "Base 1" signifies skill level needed.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:42:00 - [33] yep,we noticed the same the last days... Gonna update my post and try to find out more about thise "Base" Stuff. Anyway, thx for the input
Anderi Bourdieu Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:50:00 - [34] Originally by: DNightmare yep,we noticed the same the last days... Gonna update my post and try to find out more about thise "Base" Stuff. Anyway, thx for the input Just a guess, but maybe there is a Base-2 out there? After all, you said that the multispecs don't say how many targets of that signal type are in-system. ________________________________________________ Captain Anderi Bourdieu - Hadean Drive Yards
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.19 22:58:00 - [35] Originally by: DNightmare yep,we noticed the same the last days... Gonna update my post and try to find out more about thise "Base" Stuff. Anyway, thx for the input Pleasure, got a Radar profession site earlier "Base 2" and needed hacking level 3 to open the one hacking container. Got some semi-decent loot, a few datacores and decryptors.
Daron	Posted - 2006.12.19 23:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Joerd Toastius ...or it could just be that I hadn't figured that bit out yet. Thanks for the info (assuming it holds up), no thanks for the attitude problem :P I didn't mean you Joerd! (though the way I quoted it probably didn't help) - the troll was a post or two above mine, telling us off for giving out information about exploration. I have nothing but respect for the work you've put into your guides, and am quite sure I'd be lost without them.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.19 23:59:00 - [37] Oh, k. Grouchiness retracted :)
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 07:54:00 - [38] Have you had any more data about sensor type relating to which type of site it is? For example that Gravimetric is always a hidden asteroid belt. I spent like 2 hours and 10 quest probes yesterday trying to find a gravimetric signature but never found it. Either I had bad luck and it was in a "blind spot" or it was just very hard to find. Had an unknown signature as well which didnt show up as well. If a gravimetric is only an asteroid belt then I will ignore them in the future. I got blenty of roids where I am anyway and it is the profession sites that I am looking for.
Milkminer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:05:00 - [39] I was wondering the same. Ive found a Radar Guristus base 3 profesion site and havnt noticed to much of a pattern yet. Though with an hour of scanning a time its understandable Originally by: John Moscroft Goons are a renewable resource. There are no recruitment problems.
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:10:00 - [40] First off thanks a ton! I did my first little bit of exploration last night just before logging. 2 systems shot out a multispectral in each looking for Cosmic signals. Got nanda, but it's all good. I look forward to giving it a much wider try over the next few days. My question is how do I get the bpo's for the various probes? Namely which npc's sell them? We are recruiting!
Fatsam	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:49:00 - [41] CONCORD NPC stations sell all probe and probe launcher BPOs, I bought a complete set yesterday. Price is 4.5mil for each probe BPO.
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Fatsam CONCORD NPC stations sell all probe and probe launcher BPOs, I bought a complete set yesterday. Price is 4.5mil for each probe BPO. Thanks! We are recruiting!
Twisted One 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:17:00 - [43] A great guide, thanks! Ive been doing some 0.0 exploration of late and out of the 5 sites I have found all 5 have turned out to be roid belts full of Arkanor and Bistot, basically Im not interetsed in them. Does there seem to be any influencing factors for finding non roid sites, ie low sec, lower sec 0.0 etc, NPC owned 0.0 etc? Thanks, T1
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.21 05:18:00 - [44] Quote: Gravimetric -> Hidden Asteroid Belts Magnetrometric -> Profession Sites, mostly mixed ones Like ArcSal = Archeology & Salvaging for example. that matches what a corpmate and I found so far we hunted down 1 unknown, was a gimp plex 1 gravimetric, was an ark/bist belt(and as it wasn't in a system with a station or one of our POS's we only mined a little of it, intresting rat spawns in that time) 2 magnetrometric, both were arch/salvage, the 1st one we needed salvage 4 and arch > 2(I couldn't open it with 2 and I had highest online in corp), salvage 3 failed on one of the cans but a corpmate had salvage 4... 2nd slavage 3 and arch 4 were enough(I trained arch 4 after getting **ed at the 1st one), got a T2 rig BPC! and a copy of amarr encryption methods found another magnetrometric signal, couldn't pin it down before I ran out of probes... damn chance based **, i'll grab whats left of the corp probes and try to nail it after downtime CEO - PKKP Recruitment
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.21 05:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Twisted One Ive been doing some 0.0 exploration of late and out of the 5 sites I have found all 5 have turned out to be roid belts full of Arkanor and Bistot so far it seems like the signal type all the sites PKKP have found are in 0.0(Querious), furthest away from our base was 3 jumps they are noted above CEO - PKKP Recruitment
Anatolli Korenchken AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:22:00 - [46] Thanks for the updated guide. Of the 3 different magnetometric signatures I have found, one has been an ArcSal site, but the other 2 were Serpentis complexes. ---------------
Warbadgerus	Posted - 2006.12.22 11:09:00 - [47] Ran through a "Guristas Base" tonight in 0.0, it had 2 rooms and a few very nasty spawns. The spawns (pithi) dropped little or no loot, there was an "experimental guristas weapon tower", 2 shipyards, two guristas hangers, and a guristas research center that all dropped absolutely nothing. This disturbs me, as I also had a hacking site drop zero loot (guarded by a TON of cruise missiles and lots of large waves of cruisers/frigs) leading me to believe some of these sites are bugged.
Scaramaus Southern Cross Incorporated Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:02:00 - [48] Today I've found a sort of bug. I was scanning for this Unknown signature I'd found. With my Gravimetric Quest probe I got a result for a hammerhead with a deviation of 0m. I warped there and it landed me at a warpgate. I went through the warpgate and I reached a deserted drone-complex. And there on the first stage was a hammerhead drone. I think I was the first in this complex, but I could be mistaken. So the next time you are scanning select all the scangroups you can.
Mistica Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2006.12.22 13:47:00 - [49] I think that hammerhead was part of someones mission (my guess) I found out you only need Cosmic Signature for the multispec scanner. I came close to a deadspace signature (46.000 km) but i lack the skills to use a Sift probe (closest and most preise scanner of them all) Any other way of nearing it? - Dream As You Will Live Forever... Live As You Will Die Today!!! :D
Via Sacra	Posted - 2006.12.22 15:12:00 - [50] Originally by: Scaramaus Today I've found a sort of bug. I was scanning for this Unknown signature I'd found. With my Gravimetric Quest probe I got a result for a hammerhead with a deviation of 0m. I warped there and it landed me at a warpgate. I went through the warpgate and I reached a deserted drone-complex. And there on the first stage was a hammerhead drone. I think I was the first in this complex, but I could be mistaken. So the next time you are scanning select all the scangroups you can. That's most likely somebodys mission complex, as stated above. I've experienced the same - but warping to what I thought was an abandoned badger, but it showed up being someone looting the remains of his mission. Would this mean, that this is the way of probing down mission runners easier? I haven't tried doing that specificly earlier, but it does seem quite easy, and only takes around 3 minutes with the quests. I'm not sure how those probes that fit into the recon launcher does it though, might be even better? And if so, what's the tough part of probing a mission runner people are talking about?
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.22 15:46:00 - [51] Thanks for the walk though its great. I didn't relize the scanning system changed so much. In the last I found a complex so much easier. Last night I spend sever hours trying to find one for a cosmos agent I have lined up. Didn't relise that there was this much detail to it. To the different radar, ladar, and what not have no reflection on the race NPC your are trying to find? Was trying to find an Amarr plantation complex and though I would use the one that reflected thier ships radaror gravametric or whatevers there is and according to this it has no relation. So pretty much we always should use the multi first? Also in using mulitple probles at once, they just can't be with in the scan area? so warp around the system droping them every there once done select all and see what you can find? Again thanks. hopfully I'll find what I'm looking for tonight. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Richard Masterson FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.22 17:40:00 - [52] This deserves glue IMMEDIATELY.
Clavius Phantom	Posted - 2006.12.22 18:02:00 - [53] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. Originally by: Daron ...with no skills and [the probe] sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!). I am slightly confused. I'm not in front of the screen ATM, but if the range of the Quest probe is 4AU, that means the diameter is 2AU. But above Joerd writes that the sites may be 4AU away from a planet and Daron writes about the chance reduction if your probe is 4AU from the site. How can you ever find a site in Joerd's example if it's >2AU OUTSIDE the orbit rim of the planet(s) and there's nothing to warp to farther along? Or in Daron's example, how can your Quest be 4AU away? Wouldn't 2AU be the farthest a Quest probe could be from a site it locates? I'm not disputing the treasure trove of information here; I ask because I've run 20 Quest probes after a Gravimetric site and I've gotten no hits yet. I understand that's not a record or anything, but I am beginning to question if I'm making a mistake someplace or I have a misunderstanding. I realize the Gravimetric sites are some of the hardest to find. I don't mind it taking several hours or dozens of probes to find; I just want to make sure I'm actually rolling the right set of dice. I've got surprisingly good coverage just dropping on the planets, but I'm going to try to improve that and do multiple coverage spots in the center planets with bookmarks. But if it's true that the site could be >2AU from the planets then I'll need to plan to drop a great deal more BMs. I'm guessing if the site is really 4AU from a planet, CCP has taken care to make that never outside the outer ring of celestial bodies? Has anyone found a site that is >2AU from a planet where you couldn't have dropped a probe from a point midwarp between two celestial bodies? If so, how did you find it? Finally, Originally by: Joerd Toastius Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. As I understand this, it would be useless to drop anything smaller than a Quest ON a planet since if the sites are at =>1 AU away then we know there is a dead spot circle around the planet in which the sites WILL NOT BE so a dropping a Pursuit or smaller there (for increased sensor strength) is a waste as it only has a 1AU radius? Or am I misundertanding range and radius? Are the sites always >1AU away from all planets, meaning on many (most?) systems the site will never be INSIDE the innermost ring of planets, as most of them are less than 2AU apart? Thanks again for all of this fantastic information. Players like you are what make the game enjoyable even in the face of 20 consecutive "No Signature Found" messages. Clavius
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.22 18:46:00 - [54] Originally by: Richard Masterson This deserves glue IMMEDIATELY. Nah. It's linked from the probing sticky, that should be enough. Originally by: Clavius Phantom Originally by: Joerd Toastius Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. Originally by: Daron ...with no skills and [the probe] sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!). I am slightly confused. I'm not in front of the screen ATM, but if the range of the Quest probe is 4AU, that means the diameter is 2AU. But above Joerd writes that the sites may be 4AU away from a planet and Daron writes about the chance reduction if your probe is 4AU from the site. No, the diameter is 8au - by "range" I mean "radius". As to the exact spawn ranges, I've logged sites between 0.3AU and 3.0 AU from the initial 4AU probe since the current system was put in place on SiSi. That's only a dozen or so data points so it's not enough to be statistically sound yet, but that seems to be the general trend. I suspect that the close-in spawns I've had are from planetary overlap, but that's not confirmed.
Pylgaint	Posted - 2006.12.22 19:17:00 - [55] they really need to up the flight time on the multispectral a little. I lose half of them since the flight time = scan time, and any bit of lag seems to make them fail to scan.
WrathchildeVOTF	Posted - 2006.12.22 19:30:00 - [56] Sticky, sticky!!
Torrilin	Posted - 2006.12.23 04:48:00 - [57] Scan time is based on signal acquisition skill level and ship skill level. So a multispec probe with signal acquisition 3 and racial frigate 4 ends up about 30s off from being able to run two scans. If you're having problems with a multispec probe timing out, chances are you are too low on skills to find much.
Scaramaus Southern Cross Incorporated Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.23 05:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Mistica I think that hammerhead was part of someones mission (my guess) Hmm, I'm not sure. It was in 0.0, and there are no agents around for miles. Plus it has happened to me twice. Second time was a slasher. I'm beginning to think it was a hammerhead and slasher someone left behind in the complexes.
Warbadgerus	Posted - 2006.12.23 09:39:00 - [59] Interesting note you should add to the guide: If you get a signal with a low deviation (say, under a few hundred thousand KM) and then eject and warp to your 0m deviation sig in your pod to check it out, you will not be able to return to your ship (you will be sucked into the deadspace area if you try!) So, be careful to place your ship far away from the 0m sig if you want to check it out in your pod.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.23 11:08:00 - [60] Originally by: Torrilin Scan time is based on signal acquisition skill level and ship skill level. So a multispec probe with signal acquisition 3 and racial frigate 4 ends up about 30s off from being able to run two scans. If you're having problems with a multispec probe timing out, chances are you are too low on skills to find much. Yeah, this is kinda important I guess :P More to the point, even though your probe launcher duration is 600s and the probe life is 600s, you can't start analyzing until the launcher finishes its 15s launch cycle, which gives you a guaranteed fail I think. Train Sig Acq 1. Originally by: Warbadgerus Interesting note you should add to the guide: If you get a signal with a low deviation (say, under a few hundred thousand KM) and then eject and warp to your 0m deviation sig in your pod to check it out, you will not be able to return to your ship (you will be sucked into the deadspace area if you try!) So, be careful to place your ship far away from the 0m sig if you want to check it out in your pod. Post two para seven final sentence ;)
Torrilin	Posted - 2006.12.23 16:29:00 - [61] Quote: Yeah, this is kinda important I guess :P More to the point, even though your probe launcher duration is 600s and the probe life is 600s, you can't start analyzing until the launcher finishes its 15s launch cycle, which gives you a guaranteed fail I think. Train Sig Acq 1. It's a guaranteed fail. I'd suggest the minimum skills for expecting to find anything are astrometrics 4, signal acquisition 3, and racial frigate 4. That lets you use Sift probes (very important, trying to probe something out without sifts will make you tear your hair out). It also gives you a short enough scan time that you can get multiple scans off most probes. You can probably get away without Astrometric Pinpointing and Astrometric Triangulation, but if you're blowing 200k or so per probe, it makes sense to get them.
Richard Masterson FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.23 20:28:00 - [62] I'd like to add that just because you are using a probe of one type, does not mean that you will not find a hit from another. I found a system with Grav and Mag signatures and scanned for grav exclusively. After a looong time scanning, I got a hit for a deadspace complex, and upon further scanning found it. This was a very long process. It was an archaeology site, and I decided to go change probes and scan for the other site. This time I got a hit much faster and narrowed it down even faster, and it was the same site! Just something to beware of.
Scaramaus Southern Cross Incorporated Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.24 08:08:00 - [63] I'm reading the scan results people get and I'm wondering where you see the titels and identification on the complexes. Like ArcSal etc. Where do you see those titels? I have found a number of complexes now and the only thing I see is a warpgate or I drop in the middle of the location. So far I've found a Pithii and a couple of drone plexes. The Pithii one had some Gurista remains in it, which I can't open without an archaeology analyzer. I'm in 0.0 in theVale of Silent. btw, what do you get from using an archaeology analyzer?
LaserX Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 08:39:00 - [64] Seems the deadspace sites are filled with nasty NPC pirates, did anyone really find something good from explorations? btw, anyone tried to explore in empire? ----------- Member of Interstaller Starbase Syndicate <ISS>
Gomez Chou Gallente Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.24 11:11:00 - [65] Edited by: Gomez Chou on 24/12/2006 11:18:03 Think exploration is too time consuming? Capable of multi-tooning/working with others? Here's a trick that's sure to make your search go faster. (didn't see it mentioned previously in the thread, so my apologies if this is old hat.) What you need: SHIP A: Combat Ship of your choice with a Scan Probe Launcher and a passel of exploration probes fitted. I use a dominix for this, as I do most of my exploring in 0.0. SHIP B: T1 Reconnaisance Frigate or Covert Ops that can be flown by the pilot of above. I use an Imicus or Helios here, with a Recon Probe Launcher Fitted. PILOT 1: This is your primary probe-skilled pilot. He needs to be able to fly ship A and ship B. PILOT 2: This is your wingman, if he can fly both A and B, that's great, but he really only needs to fly one or the other to the site What you do: 1. Find a system you'd like to explore, and get yourself a cozy spot at a safe/planet/pos, with both pilots and ships present. 2. PILOT 1 loads a Multispectral into SHIP A's Scan Probe Launcher and launches it, he can bring up the system scanner window, but should not begin analysis. 3. PILOT 2 ejects from SHIP B 4. PILOT 1 boards SHIP B by right clicking the ship and selecting 'board ship'. 5. PILOT 1 Selects multispectral probe and clicks "analyze". Try it out. Once you've done this, and hopefully gotten a ping back, Pilot 1 can hop back into ship A, and lay out a quest at each planet, then return to the safespot, switch to ship B, select all probes, analyze.... no result? no biggie. Analyze again. You'll have time :)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.24 11:12:00 - [66] Originally by: Richard Masterson I'd like to add that just because you are using a probe of one type, does not mean that you will not find a hit from another. I found a system with Grav and Mag signatures and scanned for grav exclusively. After a looong time scanning, I got a hit for a deadspace complex, and upon further scanning found it. This was a very long process. It was an archaeology site, and I decided to go change probes and scan for the other site. This time I got a hit much faster and narrowed it down even faster, and it was the same site! Just something to beware of. Yeah, this is a logical consequence of the way probes are set up. It should be hammered into people that just because you found it with a mag probe, doesn't mean it's a mag signature. Look at your sig strengths, and if you have one (and if not, why not?) look at the calculated "site sensor_strength/sig_radius" ratio on your spreadsheet. If it looks out of line with everything else you've found, and if you have multiple sites in the same system, it's probably the wrong sensor type. Originally by: Scaramaus I'm reading the scan results people get and I'm wondering where you see the titels and identification on the complexes. Like ArcSal etc. Where do you see those titels? I have found a number of complexes now and the only thing I see is a warpgate or I drop in the middle of the location. So far I've found a Pithii and a couple of drone plexes. The Pithii one had some Gurista remains in it, which I can't open without an archaeology analyzer. I'm in 0.0 in theVale of Silent. btw, what do you get from using an archaeology analyzer? Zoom out to system map and check you have exploration site flags on (which it should be by default). That'll give you a little speech bubble with the site name on it. Also, rig bits :) Originally by: LaserX Seems the deadspace sites are filled with nasty NPC pirates, did anyone really find something good from explorations? btw, anyone tried to explore in empire? Yes and yes
Xon Win	Posted - 2006.12.25 00:48:00 - [67] Edited by: Xon Win on 25/12/2006 00:48:56 Here's what i've experienced so far... maybe someone can give me some help... 1) Multispectral in system yielded an (unknown) 2) Dropped Quest probe (grav) and got lucky (?) with result on first scan (call it point a). 3) went to quest result (spot a) and dropped a Comb probe (grav) at and started scanning. 4) I went to the new spot (spot b) and dropped another comb (best i can use) and recieved nothing on 2 scans. 5) Went back to point A redropped rescanned and to make long story short i've gotten 4 or 5 results all within ~60k of original point B. 6) I have gotten one result scanning from point b, and it was a shot distance away(sorry for vague answere here, at work and not exact info). (point c) and found nothing there. Untill i get the sift, should I just sit at point B (or C) for that matter spamming Combs? Having a hoot doing this btw. So critical questions: What specifically should I be looking for? I understand I'm looking for deadspace.. but is this deadspace behind a warpgate, or do I warp right into it? Could I have already found it, and it's a belt that somebody has stripped clean??? How many M&M's could one fit into a Badger II? thx for any input.
Kyrgyz Asgard Protectorate Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.25 19:45:00 - [68] Originally by: LaserX btw, anyone tried to explore in empire? I tried exploring in empire. In a .5 system, I found a deadspace complex that was empty. Apparently it had already been discovered by someone else. In a .4 system, I found a rogue drone complex, with 4 x BS and numerous frigate spawns. The Rogue Drone BS dropped the high value compounds, which refine to morphite, mega and zydrine.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.26 02:15:00 - [69] OK guys, most work is done, so I can give you a nice linky ;) I have coded an InGameBrowser only Homepage where I gather all Stuff & Intel we have. http://www.d-nightmare.de/exploration/ Use this url, but ONLY ingame. There you will find: - Joerd's Guide from this Thread (with permission to use it on the Page) - Hoshi's Part about Skills for the Probes (also with permission) - My Tipps'n'Tricks (incl. fancy pictures and a Video Tutorial soon(tm)) - FAQ - A Collection of InGame Links to the most important Tools & Ships - A Guestbook ;) So, enjoy & keep your eyes open for Updates. If you find a Bug/Typo/Whatever, feel free to mail me ingame! @Joerd: When you check back here, maybe add that Info to your first post, so noone has to search the whole Thread for the URL. cheers DNightmare
Samuel Champion Caldari Frozen Tundra	Posted - 2006.12.26 09:46:00 - [70] Here is the stoopid question of the day: Do these sites disappear or move around during downtimes or randomly? Anyone know for sure (or even have a hunch)? BTW, incredible info!! I don't know how you guys come up with this stuff but keep up the god work!!! --Sam -- I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol --
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2006.12.26 11:44:00 - [71] Originally by: Samuel Champion Edited by: Samuel Champion on 26/12/2006 11:19:37 Here is the stoopid question of the day: Do these sites disappear or move around during downtimes or randomly? Anyone know for sure (or even have a hunch)? The reason I am asking is because I spent some time in a system scanning the other day and I am wondering if any of that is still valid or if I need to start again... (guess I should have specified that) BTW, incredible info!! I don't know how you guys come up with this stuff but keep up the god work!!! --Sam They won't move around until someone "completes" them or mines them empty (in case of a belt) But you never know if someone was faster than you, so check with some multi-spec probe from time to time :) cheers DNightmare btw: finally got my minmatar encr. Skillbook & enough DANN's together for my 2 Scan Rigs yay scan time < 180secs here i come.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:11:00 - [72] Originally by: Gomez Chou 1. Find a system you'd like to explore, and get yourself a cozy spot at a safe/planet/pos, with both pilots and ships present. 2. PILOT 1 loads a Multispectral into SHIP A's Scan Probe Launcher and launches it, he can bring up the system scanner window, but should not begin analysis. 3. PILOT 2 ejects from SHIP B 4. PILOT 1 boards SHIP B by right clicking the ship and selecting 'board ship'. 5. PILOT 1 Selects multispectral probe and clicks "analyze". Waitwaitwait.. why would this decrease scan time? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.12.27 06:32:00 - [73] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Gomez Chou 1. Find a system you'd like to explore, and get yourself a cozy spot at a safe/planet/pos, with both pilots and ships present. 2. PILOT 1 loads a Multispectral into SHIP A's Scan Probe Launcher and launches it, he can bring up the system scanner window, but should not begin analysis. 3. PILOT 2 ejects from SHIP B 4. PILOT 1 boards SHIP B by right clicking the ship and selecting 'board ship'. 5. PILOT 1 Selects multispectral probe and clicks "analyze". Waitwaitwait.. why would this decrease scan time? the recon probe launcher makes analysis time 1/2 what it is with scan probe launcher. But if this works it is definately an exploit
Warbadgerus	Posted - 2006.12.28 20:03:00 - [74] Has anybody else noticed that combat oriented sites (not those with hacking/arc/sal reward cans) are completely devoid of rewards other than bounties? I've completed 3 of these sites, all fully spawned and one being part II given from another combat plex. All of these sites have had zero loot in the buildings and reward cans, even the buildings in the last room of the plex surrounded by 6 cruise missile turrets, 3 webber turrets, 6 battleships, 20 cruisers/BC's, and 20 frigs (including several scrambler frigs!) in one gigantic linked spawn. The names of the plexes in question are "Guristas Base", "Guristas Fortress", and "Radiance".
Vetric Tallek	Posted - 2006.12.29 03:54:00 - [75] Could someone post a picture of a gas cloud please. I have been looking for them non-stop in a COSMOS constellation and I cannot find any. I have found a number of places that look like gas clouds (with big swirling tornados) but I am not sure if they are actually clouds. Should something show up on my overview and if so what is it called - should it be a 'harvestable cloud' from the overview settings?
Vetric Tallek	Posted - 2006.12.29 03:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Warbadgerus Has anybody else noticed that combat oriented sites (not those with hacking/arc/sal reward cans) are completely devoid of rewards other than bounties? I've completed 3 of these sites, all fully spawned and one being part II given from another combat plex. All of these sites have had zero loot in the buildings and reward cans, even the buildings in the last room of the plex surrounded by 6 cruise missile turrets, 3 webber turrets, 6 battleships, 20 cruisers/BC's, and 20 frigs (including several scrambler frigs!) in one gigantic linked spawn. The names of the plexes in question are "Guristas Base", "Guristas Fortress", and "Radiance". Have found this also - we have also found empty plexes that have not de-spawned after downtime
Intelligent BlackMan	Posted - 2006.12.29 05:53:00 - [77] I just found a complex earlier today (rogue drones) that did not appear to have been found already. (All the drones were there, no sign of wrecks, etc.) We ran through (2 rooms) and killed all the drones, and in the second room were these red cans called something like "container with blast marks." They were all completely empty though. This left us wondering if someone had already run the complex, all the wrecks popped, and all the drones respawned, or if we had just found a crappy complex with nothing in the goodie cans. Anyone have any insight here? On a positive note though I actually did find something with the probes finally. (Nice work with the guide.)
RabbidFerret Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.30 04:17:00 - [78] If you scan a system one day and theres nothing and then you come back and scan it in a week, is there a chance there will be something there that wasnt there before? Or once you scan a system thats it and you never have to come back? RabbidFerret HR Director Templars of Space C.O.R.E Alliance
MlghtyDWC	Posted - 2006.12.30 11:15:00 - [79] Just my 2 cents worth. 1. Sites do stay until someone finds them. I found a arch/salv site with "Fragmented Cathedrals"(which took tons of ammo to blow, don't give anyting) in a 0.0 system that had too many hostiles for me to bring in my BS and salv/arch/hack ship. I waited 3 days for the right time, went to it, and it was still there. 2. Although you might feel uber being able to do a scan with the multispec for all 5 catagories, scanning for cosmic sigs only with save you some probes. Example: I jump into an empty 0.0 system, drop a multispec, scan using all 5 catagories. Result comes back, radar. I proceed to drop my radar quest probes, start scan with them, still using all 5 catagories. First result, from quest scan? Gallente shuttle. No problem I think, I know sometimes you have to do multiple scans, so onward I go. 5 scans later nothing but the bloody shuttle on results. So I start thinking, check info on shuttle. Looking at the stats on gallante shuttle, they have a 6 radar strength. DOH!!!. Not haveing anything to kill the shuttle with, I warp to it, eject from covert ops, board the shuttle, self destruct it, reboard the cov/ops. Destroy all quest probes, relaunch multispec probe, scan, no results. 3. Pursuit probes DO WORK!!!! Very nicely in fact. Cut my pinpointing time of found sigs in half. Thanks Joerd for this post and to DNightmare for the guide and exploration channel. I am now addicted to exploring, now if I can just get someone to help me with this Sansha Fortrus I found hehe.
Warbadgerus	Posted - 2006.12.30 11:30:00 - [80] Originally by: Intelligent BlackMan I just found a complex earlier today (rogue drones) that did not appear to have been found already. (All the drones were there, no sign of wrecks, etc.) We ran through (2 rooms) and killed all the drones, and in the second room were these red cans called something like "container with blast marks." They were all completely empty though. This left us wondering if someone had already run the complex, all the wrecks popped, and all the drones respawned, or if we had just found a crappy complex with nothing in the goodie cans. Anyone have any insight here? On a positive note though I actually did find something with the probes finally. (Nice work with the guide.) This was the "Radiance" complex. It has no reward, the cans are always empty. Here's a tidbit I figured I shouldn't hold back from you guys. When you loot a hacking/salvage/archaeology can, you do not in fact loot all of the items from the can. A second person may come and hack the same can and also recieve items from it. Fit yourself with a cargo scanner and scan the reward cans, this will show every possible item drop you can get from it. This leads me to believe that it either: 1) Takes multiple people to gain entry & obtain all of the loot in these cans. OR 2) The amount of the loot you recieve is based on your hacking/arc/salvage skill level, so a hacking 3 person could recieve SOME loot from the can and a hacking 4 person could then come and get additional loot. Food for thought, you should probably add it to the guide.
Tredegar	Posted - 2006.12.30 13:21:00 - [81] I wonder if getting an unknown return is returning a mission deadspace complex. "I may be a craven little coward, but I'm a greedy craven little coward." Daffy Duck
RabbidFerret Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.30 20:48:00 - [82] I found my first complex today. It was a 2 stage complex with a mission to another system 5 jumps out. It involved a weapons lab but we got almost nothing out of it. It was fun, but the reward was just not there. I'll keep looking though. RabbidFerret HR Director Templars of Space C.O.R.E Alliance
Yblarbo Janks Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.31 17:07:00 - [83] Question if Janks can. There's a Gravimetric signature in this one system, so Janks is using the Quest Probes, and just selecting all 5 categories for scanning. "Deadspace" Signature shows up often, however there's 2-3 others in system - could that be mission runners, or the target Asteroid Field?
RabbidFerret Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2006.12.31 17:53:00 - [84] Theres no point in scanning all 5 if you're scanning for just exploration complexes. Otherwise, you are probably picking up a shuttle or something. RabbidFerret HR Director Templars of Space C.O.R.E Alliance
Two step Amarr Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.31 21:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Warbadgerus Here's a tidbit I figured I shouldn't hold back from you guys. When you loot a hacking/salvage/archaeology can, you do not in fact loot all of the items from the can. A second person may come and hack the same can and also recieve items from it. Fit yourself with a cargo scanner and scan the reward cans, this will show every possible item drop you can get from it. This leads me to believe that it either: 1) Takes multiple people to gain entry & obtain all of the loot in these cans. OR 2) The amount of the loot you recieve is based on your hacking/arc/salvage skill level, so a hacking 3 person could recieve SOME loot from the can and a hacking 4 person could then come and get additional loot. Food for thought, you should probably add it to the guide. Can anyone else confirm this? I guess I can fit a cargo scanner to my cov ops and check this out on my next find.
Paranoxis	Posted - 2007.01.01 06:28:00 - [86] Hello all, I'm new to this scan probe thing, and I was wondering if you can find complexes/hidden belts in 0.7-1.0 space. And if so, what kinds of stuff can you find in them. I've sent off a few multi-frequency probes in a couple different systems, but with almost non-existant skills, I haven't scanned anything successfully yet. Thanks.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Paranoxis Hello all, I'm new to this scan probe thing, and I was wondering if you can find complexes/hidden belts in 0.7-1.0 space. And if so, what kinds of stuff can you find in them. I've sent off a few multi-frequency probes in a couple different systems, but with almost non-existant skills, I haven't scanned anything successfully yet. Thanks. Absolutely there is stuff in hi-sec. have found a couple hidden belts with 8-12 rocks of Jaspet, Hedbergite and Hemorphite. Plus several omber fields (these in .7 or .8 caldari systems) As for complexes, I have found archeology/salvage complexes, and hacking complex for mini-professions. Actual combat, have found at least 10 Guristas Hideout and 2 Guristas Watch. 2 of the hideouts escalated to expeditions. Bottom line, there is hi-sec content also.
hyundra04 Minmatar Zulu Warrior Tribe	Posted - 2007.01.01 20:12:00 - [88] hi there just a quick post to say i have created a new channel as an overflow to the EXPORATION in game channel. (EVE EXPLORATION) this is a temporary channel untill the owner of the original channel is found, and settings can be changed to accept more than 50 players. hope you dont mind this post 0/ EVE EXPLORATION
Daron	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:14:00 - [89] One of the more common questions that crops up with regards to exploring, and something that leads to a lot of the initial frustration, is why a signal doesn't turn up after 10, 20, 30 or even more Quest Probe scans. Assuming you've got your probe coverage correct (and DNightmare is the master of probe positioning - see his IGB site ) then the next lesson to learn is Exploration Probability 101. Signal Strength is a calculated value based on your probe's Sensor Strength and Scan Range, your Astrometric Triangulation skill level, the distance from the probe to the site, and finally the site's visibility (Hoshi calls this Target Signal Size, which for ships is Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength - we'll come back to this in a minute) (Hoshi's post can be found here). The take home rule is that the Signal Strength is the probability that the Deadspace will show up on any one scan. For example, the odds of a calculated Signal Strength of 0.1 turning up on any one scan is 1 in 10. Of course, we're dealing with probability, so you might get it on your first scan or not until your 500th, but the fact remains that a 0.1 Signal Strength should appear on 1 in 10 scans. So, what Signal Strengths should you be expecting out there? To know this, we go back to Hoshi's Target Signal Size. Every one of the exploration sites has one of 5 different Signal Sizes - 0.2, 0.1, 0.05, 0.025, and 0.0125. If we relate this back to the formula for ships then we can say that all exploration sites have a Signature Radius of 1 and a Sensor Strength of (5 * 2^Level). So, a Level 0 site has a Signal Size of (1/(52^0)) = 0.2 (easy to find) while a Level 4 site has a Signal Size of (1/(52^4)) = 0.0125 (very hard to find). In fact, as the Signal Size is a multiplier in the Signal Strength formula, we can see that each Level we go up halves the Signal Strength (and therefore the probability of it turning up on any one scan), so a Level 2 is twice as hard to find as a Level 1 site, a Level 3 twice as hard as a Level 2, and so on. As an example of the types of sites in each Level, we'll look at the High Sec sites (these can all be found in 0.45 security space and above). Gravimetric Level 0 (0.2) - EXPLORATION SMALL (OMBER) Level 1 (0.1) - EXPLORATION - MEDIUM - OMBER Level 1 (0.1) - EXPLORATION - SMALL - KERNITE, OMBER Level 2 (0.05) - EXPLORATION - LARGE - OMBER Level 3 (0.025) - EXPLORATION - LARGE - KERNITE, OMBER Magnetometric Level 1 (0.1) - PROFESSION - ARCSAL - BASE 1 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 2 (0.05) - PROFESSION - ARCSAL - BASE 2 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 3 (0.025) - PROFESSION - ARCSAL - BASE 3 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 4 (0.0125) - PROFESSION - ARCSAL - BASE 4 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Radar Level 1 (0.1) - PROFESSION - HACKING - BASE 1 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 2 (0.05) - PROFESSION - HACKING - BASE 2 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 3 (0.025) - PROFESSION - HACKING - BASE 3 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Level 4 (0.0125) - PROFESSION - HACKING - BASE 4 - HI SEC - [FACTION] Unknown Level 0 (0.2) - [FACTION] HIDEOUT Level 1 (0.1) - [FACTION] LOOKOUT, HAUNTED YARD Level 3 (0.025) - [FACTION] VIGIL, CHEMICAL YARD
Daron	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:16:00 - [90] Finally, in answer to our question of just how many times we need to run that Quest Probe in order to get a result, we can plug the above values into our formula for Signal Strength, and get the following guide: - For a Level 0 Site, the Quest Signal Strength will be 0.184 to 0.625 (average 0.4, or 1 in 2.5) - For a Level 1 Site, the Quest Signal Strength will be 0.092 to 0.312 (average 0.2, or 1 in 5) - For a Level 2 Site, the Quest Signal Strength will be 0.046 to 0.156 (average 0.1, or 1 in 10) - For a Level 3 Site, the Quest Signal Strength will be 0.023 to 0.078 (average 0.05, or 1 in 20) - For a Level 4 Site, the Quest Signal Strength will be 0.011 to 0.039 (average 0.025, or 1 in 40) Note that there is a Signal Strength range, the bottom of which is for a site 4AU from your probe and you having no Astrometric Triangulation skill, up to a site 0m from the probe and you having L5 in AT. It should also be stated that all of the calculations are based on using the appropriate probe for the site in question. As we said at the beginning, you may hit it on your first scan, or you may never hit it, but on the balance of the numbers, you should hit a Level 0 Site within 2-3 scans, a Level 1 Site within 5 scans, and so forth. Another thing you can do with the above numbers once you've gotten a Deadspace Signature result is to use the Signal Strength and Distance/Accuracy numbers to guage which site it will be. You can usually tell before you even move on from Quest Probes, which isn't all that useful since you're 90% of the way there at that point, but could save on a couple of Sifts if you're sick of running pirate Hideouts or mining small Ombers.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:57:00 - [91] Heya Daron, Nice Info you provided. If it's ok for you, I'll add this stuff to my IGB Page to. btw. Status of my IGB Page atm: Guide - Joerd & Hoshi's Info on Exploration Tipps'n'Tricks - My Tipps about various topics FAQ - The FAQ from Page 1 Deadspace Database - only a very basic atm, but will evovle in something bigger) Media - Only 1 Videotutorial so far (a Sample run from Multi probe over Bookmarks till the final hidden Complex) [BAD editing] IGB - A Collection of items you may need + Ingame links ToDo: - Bigger & Better Database - Finish the Picture Tutorial on Bookmarks - Making my 5-part Video Series on Exploration (gathering FRAPS for the first one atm) - Implementing the Formula to calc Target Sig. Strenght - MAYBE an Ingame Marketplace to sell hidden stuff BMs (someone posted that today, and I'm thinking about that, but still unclear) - ... cheers DNightmare
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:22:00 - [92] First off, thank you for the IGB guide, itÆs extremely helpful. I did have a couple of comments/questions. In the section where you discuss bookmark placement for coverage I couldnÆt help but notice that some of the ôXö-es you use to indicate bookmarks donÆt appear to be placeable. By that I mean that it looks like they arenÆt located between two warpable objects in space. A minor gripe, to be sure, but I do wonder if you have a trick up your sleeve for placing such a bookmark. My only idea was to scan for (at least) ships in addition to cosmic sigs with the ôbest fitö coverage and hope to find someoneÆs safespot hanging out in the direction you want to go. But thatÆs just a long shot any way you look at it. Incidentally, I scanned down a Gravimetric signal last night after quite a few probes along with a wish and a prayer. It was an ôExploration û Smallö site that had a few odd and end Crokite, Dark Ochre and Spodumain asteroids (about 25 small æroids). It was an extremely tricky one to get to, and it was located in a 0.4 system (sorry I didnÆt think to check the true security). IÆm wondering what ôLevelö site this might have been using the scale posted on the previous page. ItÆs of similar security status, but with a whole lot better æroids than Kernite and Omber (just not many). Had I seen this first I wouldÆve written down the numbers. I love exploration. I have to work from home most nights lately and itÆs a perfect profession to have running in the background while in the Quest phase. I just wish Invention was a bit more popular to make it a bit more profitable. IÆm looking forward to lower sec scans once my skills improve. --Wherever you go, there you are.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:48:00 - [93] Yep, some of those Bookmarks shown on the tipps'n'tricks site are not placeable, but these tipps are only there to enlighten the theory behind coverage (maybe there are warpable objects outside the small picture :P) the bookmark section will cover that all more clearly (when i finally finish it) o/ DNightmare
Fitz VonHeise	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:58:00 - [94] Originally by: DNightmare (With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire) How is shorter helpful? Can you move the probes to other locations or if you run a 2nd probe in same locattion is there a chance you might find something that didn't show up the first time?
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:40:00 - [95] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise Originally by: DNightmare (With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire) How is shorter helpful? Can you move the probes to other locations or if you run a 2nd probe in same locattion is there a chance you might find something that didn't show up the first time? Don't wanna sound harsh but read the rest of this guide ;) Short is better, because your probes (all except the inital Multispecc) dont give you a result everytime you scan & and you may have to scan 15 times before something pops on your screen & you can continue to look further. (And you really dont wanna scan 15*10minutes, so the shorter each scan, the better). Move Probes? you can delete them and place them somewhere else, but normally you lay out your "grid" os Probes (as much as needed) in the whole system and analyze with all of them together (ctrl + click). And no, you can't drop 2 Probes at the same location or within each others range, BUT you can drop them just ourside eachother so that the "bubbles" or range indicators overlap and then you have a better chance of finding stuff within the range of both probes. (--A--)[--B--] << Normal Situation (--A[--)B--] << GOOD! (--[A-B)--] << NOT POSSIBLE! Cheers DNightmare
Thalera Saldana Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:14:00 - [96] Many thanks for the helpful guides Joerd and DNightmare, inspired me to load up my cov ops and have a go. While I don't think exploration should be too easy, it seems a touch too much of a timesink atm. So far I have burned up 10 multispecs in a variety of 0.3-0.6 systems and got a gravimetric reading on the last. Deployed my 7 gravimetric quests to cover the outer planets and 3 for the inner ones (with a little creative bookmarking - great tip!). Am now on my last scan before the probes start popping and absolutely nothing! More than a little frustrating. Will load up the planets again to give it another go, but chance based systems sure do suck Thal
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:16:00 - [97] Originally by: Thalera Saldana Many thanks for the helpful guides Joerd and DNightmare, inspired me to load up my cov ops and have a go. While I don't think exploration should be too easy, it seems a touch too much of a timesink atm. So far I have burned up 10 multispecs in a variety of 0.3-0.6 systems and got a gravimetric reading on the last. Deployed my 7 gravimetric quests to cover the outer planets and 3 for the inner ones (with a little creative bookmarking - great tip!). Am now on my last scan before the probes start popping and absolutely nothing! More than a little frustrating. Will load up the planets again to give it another go, but chance based systems sure do suck Thal Yeha, but think about it. It's a timesink as long as you don't find s.th. but WHEN you finally hit the Jackpot, all isk/probes/time you spent before to get to that result will be rewarded quite nicely. So you say you wasted 10 Multi's and now 7 Quests... Another 7 because yours are running dry now. Then let's say 3 Comp and 4 Sift to get to the result. A Hidden Asteroid Belt in Lowsec (Gravi -> Belt) I, for example, had a 0.4 System with a real hard nut to track down, and it was a GNEISS field worth around 800mil in ore... now calc that against the probecost and maybe 5Hrs of work. (Even if you just sell the Bookmark at 15-20% of the value, you have covered your costs + made some profit) It's just that Exploration is very timeconsuming, yeah! BUT the rewards are WAY higher then on any other profession of that "style". So in the end you have fun/the thrill and even a nice reward if you put enough effort into it. o/ DNightmare and, Good Luck on that Belt :)
Thalera Saldana Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:55:00 - [98] Edited by: Thalera Saldana on 03/01/2007 16:55:47 Thanks for the extra thoughts, does make it seem a little more worthwhile when you put it like that. No joy on the second set, will have to krack (who knows why this would be filtered?) this thing damn it!! Thal (who's hoping there is something good to watch on tv tonight, whilst paint is drying and probes are running in a 0.3)
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:44:00 - [99] It can indeed be rewarding. But much less so in HiSec IMO. Spent two hours and about 3 mil in probes to scan down an Arcsal site that yielded about 100k worth of loot. I'm pretty sure I got the last of the loot since it was gone when I tried to return to it, but it's possible that someone else got there first (in a 0.5 system). That said, the Grav signal I scanned down the night before had a few odd and end Crokite, Dark Ochre and Spodumain 'roids in a 0.4 system. I sold the bookmark to a buddy's production corp for 10 mil, which is about 20% of the estimated ore yield as it was a small belt. Heh, you think exploring is a time sink. Trying to mine that down and haul the (very large ore) two jumps out to the nearest station with a refining plant would have taken me a whole lot longer. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Paranoxis	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:52:00 - [100] Hello again, I finally found a gravimetric reading in a 0.5 system after about 8 tries in various 0.9 to finally a 0.5 system. Seems suspicious I find one in the first 0.5 I go to, but none in the others. Anyways, I only have astrometric skill of 2, so I only had access to two of the probes to narrow it down. It took about 6 of the 4 AU ones to give me a reading (system has 11 planets), and of course, it was in the last place I looked (one of the distant remote planets). Once I got the reading, I warped to it, saw nothing. Plopped down the 2 AU? probe, it gave me a reading with accuracy of 1100km. Here's my question, when I warped to that spot, I was pretty much IN the dead space zone at that moment. Are there times when the dead space zone is actually 1100km distant and you have to "drive" there? I found a small omber field (Which is what I wanted since where I'm at, all omber is picked clean instantly), 159000 units of various types of omber in it. Also, since I'm only interested in ore fields at the moment, its better for me to only look for "cosmic signatures", and not pick another category as well? And I want "gravimetric" readings only, correct? Thanks in advance.
Case Micoud	Posted - 2007.01.04 10:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Paranoxis Also, since I'm only interested in ore fields at the moment, its better for me to only look for "cosmic signatures", and not pick another category as well? And I want "gravimetric" readings only, correct? Thanks in advance. Yes you want gravimetrics. Here is my question. Does anybody know when those hidden belts dissapear? Do new hidden places "spawn" in a system? Thanks for your time, bye!
Nanus Parkite Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2007.01.05 06:04:00 - [102] You have to use the shorter range probes to get a closer result. Most, if not all exploration sites only spawn when you get within a few hundred km's. This unfortunately means you'll have to train up your astrometrics skill.
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:30:00 - [103] Well so far I have found 2 things. Sadly neither has been a jackpot. First in a .5 System in Minmatar space. It was an omber belt. Omber only Omber appears in that system in the regular belts. Was kinda disappointed. Didn't bother to mine it. Planning on giving the bookmark to a newb to go enjoy it. Second in a .6 system also Minmatar space. This was a radar hit and was a hacking site. My alt in his Drake followed my little Probe frigate in and killed the guards then salvaged the wrecks and stood guard while I went around and hacked into the 4 Angel Encrypted Shards. Hacking skill at 4 and found only 1 thing and it was confusing one. Data Calibration unit. I assume it's used in invention but none of my many bpo's call for it. Anyone know? Also a little disappointed that it was all I got with the hacking skill at 4. Also noticed that the Codebreaker I has a 20% chance to open a container while all the various named versions only seem to have a 5% chance. Is that a glitch? Or are they simply not seeded yet and thus their specs are setup yet? We are recruiting!
RabbidFerret Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.06 05:41:00 - [104] Originally by: Two step Originally by: Warbadgerus Here's a tidbit I figured I shouldn't hold back from you guys. When you loot a hacking/salvage/archaeology can, you do not in fact loot all of the items from the can. A second person may come and hack the same can and also recieve items from it. Fit yourself with a cargo scanner and scan the reward cans, this will show every possible item drop you can get from it. This leads me to believe that it either: 1) Takes multiple people to gain entry & obtain all of the loot in these cans. OR 2) The amount of the loot you recieve is based on your hacking/arc/salvage skill level, so a hacking 3 person could recieve SOME loot from the can and a hacking 4 person could then come and get additional loot. Food for thought, you should probably add it to the guide. Can anyone else confirm this? I guess I can fit a cargo scanner to my cov ops and check this out on my next find. I was speaking to a GM in my huge petition about the complex loot and he said something along the lines that cargo scanners should not even be able to see inside hackable cans. RabbidFerret HR Director Templars of Space C.O.R.E Alliance
Winters Chill Amarr Scavenger Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.06 13:19:00 - [105] It looks to me like either they fogot to marry up exploration complex loot tables properly or there is still content to be added that would make a decent reward. I havn't managed to successfully find anything beyond using the multifreq, and it doesn't make sence that CCP would deliberatly include content that had no tangible reward (ahem).
Ichabod Crane LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.06 22:54:00 - [106] Originally by: Dreamdancer Also noticed that the Codebreaker I has a 20% chance to open a container while all the various named versions only seem to have a 5% chance. Is that a glitch? Or are they simply not seeded yet and thus their specs are setup yet? They arent seeded, but the value is correct anyway. 20% is the modified value from your skills. You have hacking level 3. -
Primaxin Gallente Harbingers of Sarrow	Posted - 2007.01.07 01:26:00 - [107] Is one negative scan with a multi-spec enough to be sure that the system has nothing (exploration-wise), or do you need several negative scans to be certain? Thanks.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:38:00 - [108] To outline my take on effort vs reward for Exploration: 1) Train the skills and fly the right ship. This means Signal Acquisition 4 and Covert Ops 4, 5 in both if you're really serious. ***** arch and arcsal sites until you have the parts for a Gravity Capacitor Upgrade, and fit two. This should bring your scan time under three minutes. Then train archaeology, hacking and salvage skills so you can work sites quickly. 2) Search smartly. Know what you're after. I'm still undecided on unknowns, but I don't bother with LADAR or Grav sites because the plexes aren't generally worth it and I don't mine (and work in 0.0 anyway). The real jackpot right now is data interface prints, but profession sites in general all give pretty nice rewards. 3) Know what you're actually doing. Be smart with probe drops. Scan whole systems at once, don't do one planet at a time. Use the right probes for the right job. Learn what signal strengths to expect so you know if you've picked up the wrong signal in a multi-site system. Understand the way probe mechanics work so you don't get surprised by odd results, and so you understand how coverage works, particularly with respect to hard-to-find sites. If you follow these three, exploration is IMO very definitely worth it. You should be able to get at least twenty scans out of a batch of Quests, which with multispecs means you should only need one batch on all but the toughest sites. If, on the other hand, you're out in your cruiser with sig acquisition 1 and astrometrics 2 and hunting down LADAR sites then yes, it's not worth it. That's because you're doing it wrong ;)
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.07 14:31:00 - [109] Originally by: Primaxin Is one negative scan with a multi-spec enough to be sure that the system has nothing (exploration-wise), or do you need several negative scans to be certain? Thanks. One is enough, it has enough strength to give 100% chance of detection. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Jebe	Posted - 2007.01.08 09:31:00 - [110] Edited by: Jebe on 08/01/2007 09:28:37 First off i would like to say this is an awesome guide and thanks to everyone that has contributed to it! Now i have a question for all of you. Has anyone done exploring in pairs? A friend and i decided to go try exploring (after reading this fine guide of course ) so we loaded up our cov-ops frigs with some scan probe launchers and multispec probes. I scanned some systems and he did. I pinpointed a couple of sites (Arc/sal Base 1, Large bistot belt, radiance, independance) on my own over the course of a couple days. Now, recently we both went out to a system together. Figuring if 2 people drop probes not only can we have 2x the chances of getting a hit in certain spots where we both drop probes, it would be easier to manage full coverage since we would have fewer BMs to make. Well we went through an entire hour of scanning with quest probes and had no results. Gave up for the night. Next day i went out there, redeployed the probes and started scanning again and got a hit after a very short while. Happened to notice that where the hit was had been covered by both of our probes. Next day later we are in another system that was somewhat tricky to fully cover alone so we both dropped probes again. After about 40 minutes of scanning it was brought up that most of our probes overlap.. And what had happened before.. So we looked at our probes, i destroyed 2 of mine and he destroyed 1 of his so none of them overlapped. 3 scans later, i had a hit. Is it possible that if multiple people launch probes and they overlap they cancel each other out, or is this just a strange occurance on our part?
Maric Science Experts	Posted - 2007.01.08 11:25:00 - [111] I have also strange expiriance, but diferent kind. Looks like Magnetometric Sift probe are somewhat broken or I have ultra bad luck. Very often laucher make several full reloads without any result. Yesterday I was scaning for Magnetometric and Unknown signature with Magnetometric sift probe. After several reloads I found Unknown signature (Gurista Lookout) and no ANY result for Magnetometric. Is it just bad luck or something more?
Aluresta Gallente Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 11:35:00 - [112] So if you ever find a site, then it stays there for ever and you can visit again and again? I think I read in the "New Features" for Kali, that the sites move from system to system, so whats the meaning of keeping a BM and selling it if the site moves @ the next DT? =============================================== I am going to place something nice and clever later....I can't find anything good right now!
Scaramaus Southern Cross Incorporated Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:35:00 - [113] Originally by: Aluresta So if you ever find a site, then it stays there for ever and you can visit again and again? I think I read in the "New Features" for Kali, that the sites move from system to system, so whats the meaning of keeping a BM and selling it if the site moves @ the next DT? Negative. Once you have destroyed the NPC's and the asteroids in a complex it disappears. Gravimetric complexes, (mining plexes) stay there until all rocks have been mined. I'm not so sure about this. Profession sites vanish once all NPC's have been destroyed. Even if you haven't analyzed all special cans.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 00:17:00 - [114] Originally by: Behedwin will i be able to find stuff with exploration even that i dont have extra exploration/probing skills? i have really big problems finding anything... i get a hit with the multi probe and then i use the quest probe (gravametric on gravametric hit etc...). but when i have placed quest probe on all planets and i know that i cover everything i still dont get a hit after 1h of analyzing, many many analyzings... You can in theory, but in practice it may not be worth the effort. Originally by: Marketeur Is there any point to profession sites if you don't have hacking or archaeology? I know theres the salvage one but I was wondering if you can still get loot from them without the above listed skills. Nope. You need the skill and the module to open the can, and there's nothing interesting in them otherwise, generally.
Khajit Smitty Minmatar MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:46:00 - [115] I compiled a PDF version for easier reference and reading, it can be found here I just want to say that everyone involved in exploration has put awesome work into making some of this information available and i really want to thank everyone. Please dont discuss this Pdf in here as i dont want to de-rail this thread as its exceptionally handy. Enjoy.
JLBane	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:27:00 - [116] Grtz all, Great that scanning and exploration is starting to take off. I get a buzz from it even when we're unsuccessful! I'm not the "prober" in my corp but I do fly with him. After an hour or so of scanning he found a small plex in a 0.8 system. It contained a station battery (power supply not sentry), a crashed shuttle, a drone post and 4 leaking casks. There are no hostiles. I bookmarked it but it only spawns if my corp mate goes there with me. We frankly have no clue what to do when we're there so can anyone give us any ideas as to how we can unlock it's secrets (if it has any)? Also, do exploration sites lead to "escalation" missions? Thanks in advance.
Brixer	Posted - 2007.01.09 13:31:00 - [117] Originally by: JLBane Grtz all, ......... We frankly have no clue what to do when we're there so can anyone give us any ideas as to how we can unlock it's secrets (if it has any)? Also, do exploration sites lead to "escalation" missions? Thanks in advance. The goal should be to kill at spawns and/or buildings in the plex. Or use an salvager/analyzer/codebreaker. If you tell me more about the name of the complex you found (Using the Map in system mode), or the signature type of the plex I might give you some pointers. Yes, exploration sites might give escalating paths.. In wich case you'll see an entry in you 'expeditions' tab in journal after doing the 'trigger'
Marketeur	Posted - 2007.01.09 14:59:00 - [118] JLBane I found that same plex, except it was in a 0.6.. I couldn't figure out what to do with it either. Didn't seem to need hacking or salvaging or archaeology.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.09 15:02:00 - [119] Sounds like Radiance, which is believed to be bugged
Torrilin	Posted - 2007.01.09 16:27:00 - [120] Quote: Does multiple people scanning in the same system, with overlapping scan radii, have any affect on each otherÆs results? As near as I can determine, no. I haven't run the kind of extensive (1000+) runs that would be needed for solid proof one way or the other. On the other hand, the times when I've run with a covops, typically the covops pilot finds things faster than me, but we both still find things. I'm in a scan frigate, so my scan time is much longer, and the variance looks well within the range of normal, given our skill differences. I'm running with astrometrics 4 vs the covops guy's astrometrics 5. I've got 3 in astrometric triangulation, astrometric pinpointing and signal acquisition. The covops guy has the same. I've got frigate 4, he's got covops 4. So I can't run quite as many probes, and I've got substantially longer scan time. When we work together, it's on systems where 4 or even 5 probes just aren't enough to cover all the planets. We analyze the system map and set up for maximal system coverage. If there are planet clusters within a 4au circle, we take advantage of this and drop a pair of probes so that more of the blob of space around those planets is covered. If we have probe capacity left over, there will be stacked probes on other areas as well... and since most systems don't have 9 widely scattered planets, we often have fairly directly stacked probes.
Sumayyah Minmatar Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.09 16:39:00 - [121] Edited by: Sumayyah on 09/01/2007 16:36:37 I just read the PDF doc you have posted here. One Question I have is: When scaning for exploration site in systems that have Ded complexes or Player agent missins dead space locations how does this infuence your scanning? IE can if you jump into a system sent launch your multi spectrual proble can you tell what is an exploration sight and not a DED complex (Red light distrrict) in system or someones mission(Stop the thief)? Thanks. I'm an ! I will always be an ! that is all I have to say But thats not all!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact Jet Collins in game.
Ichabod Crane LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.09 17:47:00 - [122] Originally by: Sumayyah Edited by: Sumayyah on 09/01/2007 16:36:37 I just read the PDF doc you have posted here. One Question I have is: When scaning for exploration site in systems that have Ded complexes or Player agent missins dead space locations how does this infuence your scanning? IE can if you jump into a system sent launch your multi spectrual proble can you tell what is an exploration sight and not a DED complex (Red light distrrict) in system or someones mission(Stop the thief)? Thanks. Static complexes dont show up as exploration sites -
Sumayyah Minmatar Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.09 17:56:00 - [123] Originally by: Ichabod Crane Static complexes dont show up as exploration sites Thanks so do they not show up at all on your scanner results or just as something else? And Static complexes those are both DED and NPC agent missions complexes? Thanks very much I'm an ! I will always be an ! that is all I have to say But thats not all!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact Jet Collins in game.
Ir0ns	Posted - 2007.01.09 20:06:00 - [124] Originally by: JLBane Grtz all, Great that scanning and exploration is starting to take off. I get a buzz from it even when we're unsuccessful! I'm not the "prober" in my corp but I do fly with him. After an hour or so of scanning he found a small plex in a 0.8 system. It contained a station battery (power supply not sentry), a crashed shuttle, a drone post and 4 leaking casks. There are no hostiles. I bookmarked it but it only spawns if my corp mate goes there with me. We frankly have no clue what to do when we're there so can anyone give us any ideas as to how we can unlock it's secrets (if it has any)? Also, do exploration sites lead to "escalation" missions? Thanks in advance. Also found this site in a 0.5 system as an 'unknown' then tracked down using 'Radar' Probes, the site is listed as 'Haunted Yard' and also gave the green message in my open windows about rogue drones and how aggressive they are. Though none of the buggers showed up. Incidentally the red cans labelled 'leaking casks' currently contain bugger all at the moment, and according to the devs shouldn't even be red. They will be fixed shortly i believe.
JLBane	Posted - 2007.01.10 12:43:00 - [125] Edited by: JLBane on 10/01/2007 12:41:18 Yes, Haunted Yard it is. Got the same green message in every chat window I had open. Strange that it only spawns when Zac Kari (the guy who scanned for it) warps to the bookmarked spot with me. We used analysers and other probes to no avail but we're happy to have at least found a site using the new scanning system. If as stated the site is bugged we'll have to check back after any impending updates and we'll post our findings here. And so, as a result, we've spent 50mil+ isk on bpo's for probes and forced the miners into ice fields to feed our addiction! Thanks for the feedback and special thanks to Joerd Toastius for the great guide here. JL
ZhaKha Nek Minmatar Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.11 02:30:00 - [126] Heya JLB o/ What are you doin in this thread? :P got bored from caracalhunting in everyshore? anyway, gl with your future exploration trips. snip Please do not use profanity in your signature even if it is masked. -Eldo S* *a e k? W* m n** lle o m** rat * eyi* s **d?
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 10:16:00 - [127] Some people has complained that they find an exploration site and warp there to make a BM then go back to station to switch ships and the site has despawned. Is there any truth in this and if it might happen, what can you do to avoid it? I understand that starting to fight the rats or touch stuff might trigger some "site finished" trigger but if you only warp there and then go back?
Mason B	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:23:00 - [128] I have a question about the site i found. Its Called Sansha Watch, and consist off 2 rooms the last one is locked an need a sansha silver tag. It write some green stuff in my chat box when i got near the warp gate. [13:45:39] Message > <color=0xffa3fc80>Someone has entered the vicinity of the acceleration gate, and has awakened the Slave Commander! Prepare for a fight, unless you have the means to bypass the gate's security system.</color> An it seems it something should spawn, but it never does. The site only got buildings an asteroids, no npcs, no cans nothing interesting. Any one knows how to solve this plex ?
JLBane	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:33:00 - [129] Hey Zhaka, nice to see you too - in answer to your question, no, I'm still after the whelp in the Caracal! Mason, it seems that ccp haven't ironed out all the bugs with exploration sites yet and its highly possible that the one you found is also bugged. As for sites "despawning" I've had the same problem but as far as I can tell its only because I was not the player that scanned for and found the site. I don't like to repeat myself, the details are further up the thread. It does seem that the empire sites are more of a trainer for locating the really juicy sites in 0.0, we've found little of value so far.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:53:00 - [130] Ok, so this may be obvious to all, but I had to work it out on my own so thought IÆd share my experience should someone else be struggling with the same. Setting Mid-System Probes One of the great things about the Covert Ops frigates the speed at which they warp between objects. On the flip side, there are times where getting all the way to your destination is simply not desired. Specifically, when you are trying to set probes between planets as this speed makes placing mid-warp bookmarks a matter of sheer luck. The preferred method of setting such bookmarks involves draining your capacitor to the point that initiating warp will not get you as far as the intended destination, and instead cut out only a short distance from your present location. The trick, then, is to control the cap to get the right jump distance. Safety first: While a CovOps cloak lets you warp while cloaked, you cannot run any other modules, which is somewhat key for this method do work. So be sure you are in a safespot while you are fiddling with your cap in lowsec/0.0 space. When working with near-zero cap, any unwelcome visitor could dampen your spirits rather quickly. Personally, I find the best modules to have equipped on your ship for this purpose are a Micro Warp Drive (MWD) and a Small Shield Booster (SSB). The MWD drastically reduces the amount of cap youÆll have to ôburnö and the SSB does an admirable job of draining cap faster than it can be replenished. But whatever does the job to your satisfaction is good. Use your system map to determine just how far you will need to go to place the probe for ôoptimalö coverage. If you are at a planet, and have a warpable object in the direction you want to go, all you need is to go 4.001 au away from your current location to be able to place that probe outside the current area. But really there is no rule of thumb other than to know how far you want to go. Once I have a direction object selected and know the distance to go, I start burning my cap with the SSB. Once it gets down to the very last bit I get ready to warp. Getting just over 4au in a CovOps requires almost no cap to begin with, so even if no orange is indicated on the cap-meter, you could still end up traveling 12 au or more! So I keep my fingers over the ôstop shipö keyboard command so that if any distance significantly over or under my target appears I can stop the warp (usually) before it engages. The real key to remember is that your ship expends the cap for a warp even if you never actually enter warp. So once you are down next to empty, you no longer have to rely on modules to kill cap. If you continually alternate between hitting ôwarp to àö and ôstop shipö relatively quickly, your cap will stay very low and you should be able to more-or-less control the resulting distance warped by regulating the speed at which you alternate those two commands. Well, control is a bit too strong a word, but the resulting jump-distance should jump around from between 1 and 8 au if your cap is regenerating at a fair clip (use cap-regen mods if this isnÆt fast enough for you). It usually only takes me a minute or so to land on a distance ôclose enoughö to my desired distance. To summarize: - Pick your warp-to object to set your direction. - Use the system scanner to determine how far you want to go in that direction to set your probe. - Get your cap to near-zero using modules. - Alternate ôwarp to àö and ôstop shipö to continually start, and stop warp until the resulting warp-distance ends up close to your target. - DonÆt hit ôstop shipö when you see the correct distance. You will likely begin swearing and feeling silly or stupid, and that is poor form for an intrepid explorer such as yourself. I hope this helps someone. As obvious as it may be for some of yÆall, I had to figure it out for myself and maybe this will safe some others from doing the same. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Elena Lanfear Crafty Productions	Posted - 2007.01.14 09:20:00 - [131] @Bermag: I know a Hacking Site that despawned as soon as we warped out. We have learned from this incident and place an alt inside the Complex, preferable in a pod. The NPCs dont shoot him and as long as he is inside the Complex stays active. A Cov Ops will do the job too with a cloaking device. Kind regards Elena
Modeu	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:54:00 - [132] I ran into my first tough site to pinpoint. Here's the skinny... My Skills: Astrometrics 5 Astrometrics Pinpointing 3 Astrometrics Triangulation 3 Signal Acquisition 3 Location: Empire space (0.7 Security Level) Day 1: - Multispectral shows a Gravimetric signal - Cover the system with 5 Quest probes - 1 hour later, no hits. - Cover the system with 5 Quest probes, again. - 1 hour later, no hits. Day 2: - Multispectral shows the Gravimetric signal is still present - Cover the system with 5 Quest probes - 1 hour later, no hits - Cover the system wtih 5 Quest probes, again. - Finally, Deadspace Signature with around a .04 strength & 0.88 AU deviation - Warp to location, 4 Comb probes later, new location with 16,000km deviation - Warp to location, 2 sift probes later, new location with 400km deviation - Warp to location, site is now visible on my overview. Large Jaspet, Kernite, Omber site. I've mined about half of the Jaspet and my hanger has a little over 300k m3. I'm guessing that there's between 500-600k m3 of Jaspet. There's about twice (if not more) as much Omber and Kernite than Jaspet.
Chee Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.15 03:27:00 - [133] ironic, had a radar signal and a gravimetric signal on the multi, started scanning with radar quests, after 2 hours I had 2 different results (.07 and .04). I scanned the .07 down (30 minutes), but when I finnaly warp to it its a bloody asteroid belt. Dissappointed I go to work on the .04, after some 50 minutes I get it right. I warp in, and bloody peep another belt!!! The radar signal has eluded me for over 4 hours now, and instead ive found 2 gravimetric sites with the wrong probe type And on top of that, now ive run out of radar probes I really hope the radar site is worth it.. just wanted to post this so people know what can happen Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.15 14:07:00 - [134] Prelim booster guide added on first page
Thira Rans	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:56:00 - [135] I also have difficulties in finding a radar site. I cover the system with 5 quests, scan 10times during the lifetime of the probes. I have done the whole process for more than 10times (yeah, spending 50 quests). I added in warp bookmarks for better coverage and also changed the places i droped the probes slightly in order to cover the inner planets differently. And I don't get a f** result. I will give it another try as i got some additional out of plane bookmarks by warping to old mission sites (were some drones flying around) to increase my coverage but if that doesn't help I just wonder if the signal strength of the site is just so low that i have to wait unitl my astrometic triang skill is at IV (currently III). I am really a bit frustrated as i spent more than 12hours klicking analyse....
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:17:00 - [136] I've also had a couple of systems where an inordinant number of scans yielded no results. Even with near-perfect coverage and a fair bit of same-probe overlap I burned a couple dozen probes. Sadly, given the simple fact that several of the Exploration instances are bugged in and of themselves it stands to reason that there are still bugs in the mechanics that spawn them. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if some sites indeed are impossible to find due to a bug in the mechanics. Like I said, it stands to reason for this to be the case, but there it would be nearly impossible to test that from our end either way. Don't mean to rag on CCP for it, but I highly doubt that their deadspace spawn mechanism works perfectly. The signal strength might be impossibly low, or the location set 4.001 au away from a planet on an 'unreachable edge'. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:20:00 - [137] Question: I've seen it mentioned that whether or not a cosmic signature spawns is somehow related, or dependant, upon the traffic within a system. What types of criteria are used to determine this? Is it jumps through a system or number of pilots who spend time in a system? I ask because I started exploring 0.0 space and I've had a helluva hard time finding anything at all, let alone something interseting. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Thira Rans	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:37:00 - [138] Good that you mention it that you had similar problems. I focused too much on this specific radar site and forgot about a possible bug. Not that I claim it is one, but after a lot of unsuccsesful tries, i think maybe it is better to move on, look for another sig and pin down that one.
Caimbueul Har'lea'quinn	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:10:00 - [139] Edited by: Caimbueul Har''lea''quinn on 16/01/2007 17:07:17 Stupid alt.
Draaken Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:11:00 - [140] Originally by: DNightmare Originally by: Joerd Toastius Technique It is believed that the different sensor types correspond to different types of site, but there isn't enough data to confirm which are which yet. As far as our little Team of Explorers has analyzed this aspect, we have come to the same conclusion. We've set-up a Live Database now, everyone reading this is welcome to add their findings via DNightmare's Ingame Site (see List above): Gravimetric -> Hidden Asteroid Belts Info: There may even be a chance that Faction NPCs show up and drop Faction Items/Implants Magnetrometric -> Profession Site, mostly ArcSal (Archaology & Salvaging) Loot: T2 Rig BPCs, Datacores, common & rare Salvaged Materials LADAR -> Complexes & Gas Clouds (There are also reports about RADAR Gas Clouds, so they don't seem to have a fixed sig. type) Complexes most of the time escalate when you shoot the Structures in the second Stage RADAR -> Profession Site, mostly Hacking Loot: Enc. Skillbooks, Decryptors, Interface BPCs & Components This isn't quite accurate and correct though. Last night I scanned in Tribute, Multispec reported RADAR. After some extensive attempts with Radar probes, I ended up at 2 complexes, 1 being a Guristas 2-level-deadspace complex, the other being a 2-level-Drones complex. So I guess RADAR probes also pick up complexes... ____________________ first!!1!! -Capsicum Originally by: Wrangler I lock, therefor I am.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:46:00 - [141] Originally by: Draaken This isn't quite accurate and correct though. Last night I scanned in Tribute, Multispec reported RADAR. After some extensive attempts with Radar probes, I ended up at 2 complexes, 1 being a Guristas 2-level-deadspace complex, the other being a 2-level-Drones complex. So I guess RADAR probes also pick up complexes... Was there anything located within these complexes that were profession related? Or was it a straight complex with rats and naught else? --Wherever you go, there you are.
Marco P	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:03:00 - [142] Complexes come under "unknown" type, I believe, so can be detected by any type of probe.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:15:00 - [143] I am trying to figure out if having more than one probe covering a specific area is worth it. When having more than one probe covering an area (assuming the site is inisde the intersection), are strenghts of probes added together in some way or is each probe calculated on their own? I guess it is each probe calculated on each own. If that is the case having more than one probe covering an area does not make it easier to find a site however could make the process go faster because you have more than one probe. Of course if dropping the other probes make them getting closer to the site location than your first then you will get better results.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:33:00 - [144] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 18/01/2007 11:29:54 To get your head around that kind of thing you really ought to read Hoshi's sticky a few posts down, it handles the probe mechanics in better detail. I think the current theory is that they're additive, though {edit} Or at the very least they're treated as a single overlapping area rather than two distinct coincident areas
Brannock	Posted - 2007.01.18 14:23:00 - [145] Do all type of sites exists in all regions or are they specific to the regions? What I am most concerned about are the new regions. If profession sites and complexes are for a specific rat type (like for example an ArcSal Base 3 Blood) and only for the rat type in that region, is there really profession istes with drone rats? I am mostly interested in the hacking sites and if there are none in the new regions it is waste spending time scanning for them.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:25:00 - [146] That's a good question Brannock, I'd be interested in hearing the answer myself. Does anyone do a lot of scanning in 0.0 space? Is there any rhyme or reason to the types of signatures that spawn out that way? I dropped 24 scan probes throughout the Pure Blind and Fade regions and didn't find anything but the occasional Unknown and Gravimetric signatures. I only bothered to scan down one of the Unknown signatures, and sure enough it was a complex far beyond my ability to solo and so I moved on. I have no interest in 0.0 Grav signals since mining even the most valuable ore would be a logistical nightmare without local support. Any advice to 0.0 scanning? --Wherever you go, there you are.
Khevynn	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:58:00 - [147] Edited by: Khevynn on 18/01/2007 17:58:59 Well last night was my first attempt at after about 8 Systems I finally found an unknown signiture (if anyone knows any gravometric ones near the Essence region I would be grateful). So I drop all my Quest Probs down on the planets and end up with pretty good coverage. First analyse.....bam, got a hit. Warp to it, drop a comb, bam a hit...warp to hit, drop another comb....(only astrometrics III at the time) and dont' get a hit, analyze again get a 0km hit and get off to a acceleration gate we go. Book mark it hop in and see what there is to see......nothing....Haunted Yard was the name of it. There were about 5 structures in it. The only one I could shoot was the damaged stargate the other ones took ZERO damage when I shot them. The leaking caskets or whatever they were called held zero loot. SO I think it is safe to say that the Haunted Yard is bugged. But I did enjoy the process, now I need to find some belts! I do have a question though. If a system has a exploration site will it always have one? Say for insatance someone finds a belt of ore and mines it all, next down time it disappears, will that system spawn a new exploration site, or do they just randomly jump from system to sytem after every down time? Basically, I have about 8-10 systems I am looking at covering, should I do them all every day or stick to the ones where I have found something before?
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:20:00 - [148] Khevynn they are completely random. They bounce around. We are recruiting!
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:44:00 - [149] Originally by: Brannock Do all type of sites exists in all regions or are they specific to the regions? What I am most concerned about are the new regions. If profession sites and complexes are for a specific rat type (like for example an ArcSal Base 3 Blood) and only for the rat type in that region, is there really profession istes with drone rats? I am mostly interested in the hacking sites and if there are none in the new regions it is waste spending time scanning for them. They seem to be race-specific. Additionally, certain COSMOS sites only seem to spawn in COSMOS constellations. As to the new regions, I know several people who've gone out there and found zero profession sites. Obviously you can't comprehensively prove a negative here, but I've given up thinking about looking for them out there.
Molotka Amarr A.W.M	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:11:00 - [150] 1. While I know that you can track down an "unknown" signal type with any flavor of probe, do these returns also resolve into ArcSal or Hacking plexes? Or do you specifically need a Ladar or Radar hit to get an ArcSal or Hack plex? 2. I ran a Heirarchy plex the other day, seemed to be pretty worthless. Cruisers and frigs the first level, with BS added the second. Triggered all the spawns, killed them all, killed all the structures. No salvage, no loot from structures. Plex despawned afterwards as usual. What gives?
Ir0ns	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:45:00 - [151] Don't know whether this is any help to you guys, but this is all i have managed to find so far. I've listed the signature, followed by the probes used to track it and finally the name of the site: Unknown Radar Provisional Sansha Outpost Gravimetric Gravimetric Exploration (small, Omber) Radar Radar Profession - Arcsal - Base 1 - Lowsec Unknown Radar Haunted Yard Unknown Radar Rogue Trial 1 Magnetometric Magnetometric Profession - Arcsal - Base 2 - Lowsec Radar Radar Profession - Hacking - Base 1 - Sansha Nation Unknown Radar Sansha Base All these areas found within 2 weeks in the same region. For the past 2 weeks scanning in this same region has resulted in sod all. Irons
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:46:00 - [152] I am beginning to think these sites spawn in "bands" throughout the Universe. When I first started I was considered pretty lucky in that id find 3-5 of them in a week, just 4-5 jumps from whereever i started looking. Now this "close" area is completely dried up. I thought, ok maybe im just not getting there before someone else, but after some longer trips, i started finding them again in number. But as far as 8-12 jumps from my first "area" Maybe its constellation wide? A certain number per, and then on to next? Anyone else notice this? Kaaii Trading 101
Sartaron Amarr Circle of Violence United Corporations of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:27:00 - [153] Edited by: Sartaron on 19/01/2007 20:32:46 I have found an exploration site (radar) which is called "Zero Cosmos Vale - Hack Site". In the first room, there are two gates. Neither can be activated, except by my hacking char. Even after this char has activated the gate, neither of the other characters can go through. It always says: 2007.01.19 20:26:09 Info You need more know-how in Hacking to operate this particular jump gate. Does this mean, that each member of the gang needs the hacking skill to proceed?
Joanne Prescott	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:50:00 - [154] I would like to ask a question regarding the archaeology side of this part of the game. Sorry if its not "strictly" to do with scanning. Background: I found a mag arc/sal base 1 signature in a 0.3 part of lo sec space. It contained 3 x salvagable cans which were looted fine It also contained 4 x Archaeology cans which when opened i received nothing. My skills relevant skills are: salvaging at L4 - so i expected to find something in the sal cans Archaeology at also L4 - i expected to find "something" though i got nothing. Is this Normal?? this is my first time *****ing at anything to do archaeology/salvage in exploration so again i apologise. Also the cans did not disappear they hung in space and funnily enough the archaeology cans which also hung in space seemed to "respawn" the ability to be able to be "re-analysed" ....again is this normal? Anyone with a sensible explanation for any of this for a new girl on the block.
Ir0ns	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:38:00 - [155] Hiya Joanne In all honesty, whats found in the cans does seem to be a random drop. Obviously there must be some relevence to skills (ie, chances increased that you will get something), but this is not guaranteed. On the few arc/sal sites i've found myself, most cans tend to contain bugger all, and in the ones i did discover items in, they wern't particularly special ( a few datacores and parts for the bpc's for the interfaces). Still no bpc's yet, but i'll carry on searching :)
Marco P	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:08:00 - [156] Hi - great guide! I was looking for some info on "Independence". I found it and ran it with some corp mates. It is as described in the DB - quite a few drones, 2 lvls, 3 BS drones. But I found no escalating path. Where is this? Also no loot apart from compounds dropped by the drones. Is this normal? Thanks
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:16:00 - [157] Originally by: Marco P Hi - great guide! I was looking for some info on "Independence". I found it and ran it with some corp mates. It is as described in the DB - quite a few drones, 2 lvls, 3 BS drones. But I found no escalating path. Where is this? Also no loot apart from compounds dropped by the drones. Is this normal? Thanks I found a similar drone complex. 2 stages, several waves of drones in each (including several BS in the second stage) and a Radience chemical hive. Found nothing worth picking up, the alloy drops were the same as those found in agent missions (completely worthless when you have 10x better drops in the belts). There was no escalating path, though "Error Error Error Empty Hive" was repeated 4x in all open channels. So yes, it's "normal". It seems the complexes in the new regions are half-finished at best, even the names of the drones are screwed up (funny symbols in the name, all lowercase, same name for several different drones). Not to mention there are no hacking or archeology sites in the new regions, at all. The best you can hope for is a hidden belt that gives some zyd/megacyte in the form of ark/bist, a real blessing when you're already swamped with the stuff from alloy refines .
Kai Toeban	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:22:00 - [158] Edited by: Kai Toeban on 20/01/2007 11:19:19
Brannock	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:29:00 - [159] Originally by: Xelios Not to mention there are no hacking or archeology sites in the new regions, at all. The best you can hope for is a hidden belt that gives some zyd/megacyte in the form of ark/bist, a real blessing when you're already swamped with the stuff from alloy refines . That sucks and I was afraid it would be like that. That the profession sites are tied to the rat type in the region and that devs has forgotten about that the new regions have drone rats. I hope this is getting fixed. It would be nice to have something else than drones and roids. Devs, please change this.
Marco P	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:32:00 - [160] Just to clarify - the complex I found wasnt in the new regions. We have Sansha rats hereabouts.
Garrick Konquero Gallente ImmCo	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:09:00 - [161] Edited by: Garrick Konquero on 20/01/2007 20:06:39 Edited by: Garrick Konquero on 20/01/2007 20:06:16 Have NPCs spawned in the hidden asteroid belts as theorized?
Nanus Parkite Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:10:00 - [162] Yes. In my experience they tend to be equivalent to the system as opposed to the asteroid level.
Lei Marginale Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:09:00 - [163] In my experience, the belt rats were different. Rogue drones BS instead of Blood Raiders BCs, in a 0.2 system, with a small Crokite belt.
Gibson Parteen	Posted - 2007.01.22 03:15:00 - [164] Greetings all! I am new to scanning,and new to the game as well. A question I have is do you need to use the different probes to zero in on a site? Or is it a luck thing? For example, I am scanning a system now, and I am getting hits on the grav quest probe. It says that the accuracy is X. I then warp to the site and put out a pursuit probe. It registers (after a few tries) with a hit with accuracy to X. Well I cant use any other probes yet to zero it down further, am I just chasing my tail until I can get higher accuracy probes? Thx GP Thanks
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 08:51:00 - [165] Originally by: Gibson Parteen A question I have is do you need to use the different probes to zero in on a site? Or is it a luck thing? You really need to get Astrometrics 4 so you can use sift probes. If you look at the quest/pursuit you will see that accuracy is not that great.
Biltic Creen Minmatar Deutsche Minen und Werke Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:01:00 - [166] In case you are completely unlucky with the accuracy: Quast -> Pursuit -> Comb -> Sift
Vertex Eisenstein Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:24:00 - [167] First of all thanks for this quide and the IGB page, it has made things a lot less painful. I have a few questions though: 1. Has anyone found a LADAR site outside of a 0.0 COSMOS constelation or the region the constelation is in? 2. Is it possible to force the spawn of a LADAR site at an "unknown" site by using LADAR probes? 3. Do deadspaces time out if no one finds them? I wasted a lot of time on a sig that seemed to be bugged in empire, but a couple of weeks later it had gone. The nature of the bug was that a couple of us in my corp found it on a quest quite easily, but using shorter range/higher strength probes failed to give a result even after hours of analysis. We were pretty sure it was impossible to find, but it vanished at some point.
Athenaa White Nova Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:40:00 - [168] Does anyone have any information on the best probe to use to find Unknown Signatures? I have not had any luck on the unknown signatures. I have tried Mag and Radar probes on these unknown signatures but have not had any luck.
Lorelei A	Posted - 2007.01.23 06:46:00 - [169] Edited by: Lorelei A on 23/01/2007 06:44:34 Originally by: Sartaron Edited by: Sartaron on 19/01/2007 20:40:37 Edited by: Sartaron on 19/01/2007 20:40:15 Edited by: Sartaron on 19/01/2007 20:32:46 I have found an exploration site (radar) which is called "Zero Cosmos Vale - Hack Site". In the first room, there are two gates. Neither can be activated, except by my hacking char. Even after this char has activated the gate, neither of the other characters can go through. It always says: 2007.01.19 20:26:09 Info You need more know-how in Hacking to operate this particular jump gate. Does this mean, that each member of the gang needs the hacking skill to proceed? EDIT: You need a gang of hackers.... It's a COSMOS booster-related plex. You can find some skills, reactions, booster bpc's, drugs and some odd-named commodities.
Cerimina	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:44:00 - [170] Originally by: Athenaa Does anyone have any information on the best probe to use to find Unknown Signatures? I have not had any luck on the unknown signatures. I have tried Mag and Radar probes on these unknown signatures but have not had any luck. yeah .. i would realy like to know wich is the best way to find unknown signatures
Crae Matreki Caldari Blackstar Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:01:00 - [171] Well, I've found two things since I started exploring on Sunday. I've got astrometrics to 4, other scan skills to 3. First I found an unknown signiture in a 0.6 system. I tracked it down using LADAR probes (as it was minmatar space, i figured there was a slight chance it'd have some advantage over the other types, but probably not). The quest found it after 3 scans, and the comb found it first time, to 0km! I didn't know about the system map tags at the time, so i don't know what it was called, but it was a 2 stage Angel complex with frigs and cruisers, about equivalent to a level 3 DED complex. there wasn't any special loot, even in the overseer structure on the second stage. it despawned as soon as i left the area (much to the annoyance of my salvage ship) after that, i found a gravimetric signiture in a 0.7 system. spent 40 minutes with gravimetric quest probes before getting a result. warped to it and dropped a comb.. then another one.. and another.. i dropped 5 in total, before having to get some sleep. Monday I came back with a pursuit probe which got a result on the second scan! I've now learnt to actually read the results i get from the quest probes before assuming a comb probe will pick it up. I dropped a comb at the new location, and got a 0m result.. err.. a "small exploration. omber - kernite", i think. The signal strength was 0.4. it had 12 omber roids and 8 kernite, all larger than normal. only a few local rats (1.3k bounty) turned up to hassle us, followed by a spawn of 4 rogue drones who appeared when only two roids were left. it also despawned once we'd all left the area. it's been quite fun so far, in an odd sort of way. Finding that 0m result sure is satisfying! hopefully i'll find some profession sites soon..
Brannock	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:31:00 - [172] If I have understand things correctly then Gurista hacking sites will possibly drop Caldari interface components etc (Angel=Minmatar, Blood=Amarr and Serp=Gallente). I also think that the type of faction of an ArcSal/Hacking site depends on the which type of rats there is in the region. But how about regions with Sansha rats? have any of you find a profession site there and of which faction was it?
Newbie Ned	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:34:00 - [173] A few lessons I've learnt. Scanned 7 sytems, found 4 sites. I had only quests and the short range ones (can never remember if it is sifts or combs!). I got an error of .6 AU. Doh. So I did a load more scans and got 2 more points 0.6 - 0.8 AU away. As these formed a rough triangle on my sytem map, I went to my best guess, 3d sphere imagining, complex location (takes a while trying to go .2au in CovOps), scanned with my short range probes and got a 0km result .1au away. All my results have agreed with theses forums in terms of result v complex type. I used radar to find unknowns but afaik, the different types are all equal. Now a few questions: 1. I am looking for info on "Independence" is it a dead end with no loot and why do the buildings respawn every DT and not the NPCs (or more like why doesnt everything disappear?) 2. Any info on Sansha Fortress other than what is in the DB? Thanks
Grimtor	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:56:00 - [174] Great information in this thread! Thanks a ton for everything...I'm still reading and trying Exploration out but I have a question that I'm hoping folks might be able to answer. I was scanning various systems with Multifrequency Probes to find anything and on my 11th try I hit a system with a Gravimetric signal result. A hidden belt...something I really want. :) So I went back to my nearby base and grabbed a set of Gravimetric probes to load into my Helios - Quest, Probe, Comb, Sift and even some Snoop and Fathom probes - 10 of each, then I headed back to try and scan the signal down. I spent a lot of time placing the Quest probes to get maximum planet coverage and after using up the first set and not getting any hits I took a break, replaced them in a slightly different configuration and tried again - on my 3rd scan I hit a Deadspace Signature! The scanner said the Deadspace signature had a Signal Strength of 0.0514, Distance 2791m with an Accuracy of 1.5936 AU. So I warped off to the location on my scanner and bookmarked it for more scanning since I know that accuracy is awful...and after several more scan runs with Pursuit, Comb and Snoops right on the bookmark location I'm still not finding anything else. True I know it'll take time but I'm wondering, should I be dropping the probe directly on the bookmark? My accuracy from the Multifrequency probe was 1.5936 AU, so my thought is a Pursuit probe with 2au range directly on the bookmark spot of the original signal SHOULD be good enough - Right? Or should I be dropping multiples around the area to overlap? An ideas, suggestions? Thanks!
Newbie Ned	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:00:00 - [175] Yep Pursuit is definitely the correct 1 to use. It is probably just a case of keep trying. A signal strength of 0.05 is pretty low (5% chance of getting a result). The jury still seems to be out on overlapping probes and in this case it is hard to place them (which direction in 3d?) On the plus side others have found that the harder something is to find - the better it is. So keep skill training and keep trying. Good luck!
Grimtor	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:52:00 - [176] Edited by: Grimtor on 23/01/2007 18:49:22 Thanks! I had time during lunch today to try and I got it! It took about another 45minutes to find but a couple more Pursuits followed by a couple Sifts and I had my location. A small hidden asteroid belt containing about 21million ISK worth of ore (Jaspet, Kernite and Hemorphite) in a system that doesn't have the security rating to support those ore types. :D I brought in my mining fleet and started to strip it out, the moment I placed a miner on the 1st 'roid 3 small Serpentis Rats spawned. Maybe they'll get bigger...we'll see. My first Exploration find! Whooooo!
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.23 19:48:00 - [177] Edited by: Simon Jax on 23/01/2007 19:44:22 Two questions: 1 û I recall seeing in another thread that CCP didnÆt intend for the Cargo Scanner to return the entire contents of a Profession can (Info Shard, Debris, Wreck, etc.) yet it does. Is this true, and are they considering using Cargo Scanners an exploit? If not, any word on whether or not it will be changed? 2 û IÆve seen several different opinions on the matter of the Access Skill levels (Hacking/Archaeology/Salvage). One says that itÆs completely chance based, and higher skill levels simply result in a higher chance for getting to additional pieces of loot; this is consistent with the skill description. The other theory says that despite whatÆs in the skill description the Profession canÆs contain ôtieredö loot that are accessed based on the appropriate Access skill level. Example û With theory One when you attempt to Access the can with the skill at lvl 5 you have a 25% chance of obtaining each piece of loot, but only a 5% chance at each with lvl I. With theory Two each piece of loot is assigned a ærequired Access levelÆ, so at lvl I you can only get to the lowest assigned loot, whereas lvl V you will always get all of the available loot. So the question is really: Has anyone with Hacking/Salvaging/Archaeology at level V been denied a piece of loot in a Profession can? IÆm quite tired of people yammering on ôI think itÆs àö when it is extremely easy to definitively check it and answer the question. With a Cargo Scanner (to view all loot in a profession can) and any relevant skill at Level V à itÆs a simple matter of scanning then looting (which you will no doubt do anyway). If at any point you miss out on loot, then it must be chance based. If you always get all loot seen by the Cargo Scanner, without exception after a reasonable number of attempts, then itÆs Access level based! ItÆll be a while before I can finish the training on these skills and do the check myself, there has to be someone with those skills maxed who can verify this. IÆm hoping itÆs Access skill based, personally. If it is indeed chance based, then I expect to be frustrated as I was last night. There was at least 60 million in datacores (buy orders), which could have sold for over 100 million that were sitting in the cans, inaccessible to the likes of me with Hacking III. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Brannock	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:09:00 - [178] Originally by: Simon Jax 2 û IÆve seen several different opinions on the matter of the Access Skill levels (Hacking/Archaeology/Salvage). One says that itÆs completely chance based, and higher skill levels simply result in a higher chance for getting to additional pieces of loot; this is consistent with the skill description. The other theory says that despite whatÆs in the skill description the Profession canÆs contain ôtieredö loot that are accessed based on the appropriate Access skill level. And a third theory is that your level of archaeology/hacking does not affect the loot drop. Devs can we get a final answer to this?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:29:00 - [179] Originally by: Newbie Ned A few lessons I've learnt. Scanned 7 sytems, found 4 sites. I had only quests and the short range ones (can never remember if it is sifts or combs!). I got an error of .6 AU. Doh. So I did a load more scans and got 2 more points 0.6 - 0.8 AU away. As these formed a rough triangle on my sytem map, I went to my best guess, 3d sphere imagining, complex location (takes a while trying to go .2au in CovOps), scanned with my short range probes and got a 0km result .1au away. Would just like to say that doing this is incredibly satisfying when it works :) WRT the profession cans and scanners thing, I don't know who's perpetuating all the garbage that's floating around, but... 1) A dev (I can't remember who or where, it may have been Eris though) stated that the way cargo scanners interact with profession cans is unintended. This is backed up by this post.I don't think it should be classed as an exploit simply because it's not very useful. 2) In this post (same thread as previous link) SoniClover states explicitly: Quote: The profession skills ONLY affect the chance to open the profession containers. They have NO effect on the loot drop chances. You can tinfoil all you like, but as far as I'm concerned until someone brings forward overwhelming evidence that CCP is wrong on this, the case is pretty much closed, and skill level has no effect on loot outside the level 3 requirement on some cans. WRT the scan/loot issue more generally, my working hypothesis is that when each can spawns it generates a "potential" loot table, and stores this in whatever DB location the cargo scanner queries. Then, when you open the can, you have a random chance to get each piece of loot. More specifically, given that some evidence at least seems to suggest that the loot you get is always from the top end of the list that the cargo scanner shows you, it's probable that you have a chance to get the first piece (may be a 100% chance given that empty cans scan as empty), and then a chance to get the second piece if you succeed with the first, and so on and so forth. It's also been suggested that it's possible to get "another go" at the loot by using a different character; however this always seems to be backed up by "someone I know did it". I've tried and failed to reproduce this behaviour, so for now I personally am treating it as unreliable until someone comes up with proper replication conditions.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:59:00 - [180] Originally by: Joerd Toastius WRT the profession cans and scanners thing, I don't know who's perpetuating all the garbage that's floating around, but... = 1) A dev (I can't remember who or where, it may have been Eris though) stated that the way cargo scanners interact with profession cans is unintended. This is backed up by this post.I don't think it should be classed as an exploit simply because it's not very useful. 2) In this post (same thread as previous link) SoniClover states explicitly: Quote: The profession skills ONLY affect the chance to open the profession containers. They have NO effect on the loot drop chances. You can tinfoil all you like, but as far as I'm concerned until someone brings forward overwhelming evidence that CCP is wrong on this, the case is pretty much closed, and skill level has no effect on loot outside the level 3 requirement on some cans. WRT the scan/loot issue more generally, my working hypothesis is that when each can spawns it generates a "potential" loot table, and stores this in whatever DB location the cargo scanner queries. Then, when you open the can, you have a random chance to get each piece of loot. More specifically, given that some evidence at least seems to suggest that the loot you get is always from the top end of the list that the cargo scanner shows you, it's probable that you have a chance to get the first piece (may be a 100% chance given that empty cans scan as empty), and then a chance to get the second piece if you succeed with the first, and so on and so forth. It's also been suggested that it's possible to get "another go" at the loot by using a different character; however this always seems to be backed up by "someone I know did it". I've tried and failed to reproduce this behaviour, so for now I personally am treating it as unreliable until someone comes up with proper replication conditions. That's all well and good, but it is obvious that what is "intended" and what "happens" are not always the same. Which is why I proposed a very simple, practical way for this to be settled. If someone with Hacking V Cargo Scans a profession can, then runs their Codebreaker, and gets only a portion of the loot from the can, then it's clearly chance based on some level. That means the cargo scanner is, as you say, rather useless. I find this important to know. Salvage V, Hacking V, Archaeology V, it doesn't really matter. I just want someone to KNOW, and answer the question. I apreciate the Dev response in that thread, it's great that they did so. But when one says "unintended" and the next says "only ..." I think it's worth verification. --Wherever you go, there you are.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.24 09:22:00 - [181] Edited by: DNightmare on 24/01/2007 09:19:25 Hacking V, Archaology V here. And NO, I don't get every single bit of loot I find on the Cargo Scanner (Hell yeah, I would be rich & famous if I did :P) €dit: I even get an empty can from time to time. o/ DN
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.24 10:54:00 - [182] Also, I don't see how you're tying "unintended" and "only" together there in any meaningful way, given that the two quotes are talking about totally different things and one isn't even a quote because I can't find the source :P
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2007.01.24 15:12:00 - [183] I have 2 accounts with a primary character on each. Account #1: Salvage 5, Arch 3, Hack 4 Account #2: Salvage 5, Arch 2, Hack 0 Found a Arc/Sal/Pro site in a 0.8 system. There was a handful of low end rats easily dispatched. 1 salvage can and 3 arch cans. Cargo scanned the salvage can (Angel Waste) Saw a couple very low end salvage bits. First character salvages the can and gets nothing. Second character salvages the can and gets nothing. So two lvl 5 salvage skilled character got nothing on a very low end salvage container. Scanned each of the arch cans. 2 had low end salvage in them and one had nothing. Yup Salvage bits in a can that required the Analyzer I and Arch skill to access. Accessed all 3 cans. First can double failure. Second (the one that showed empty) also double failure. The last can had the most salvage in it according to the scanner I had the lower Arch skill level guy attempt first and he got everything. This is the 4th time I have had this exact thing happen. The first cans checked, whether empty or not, I have received nothing and the last can I get everything inside. Working on getting my second character the Hacking skill. Working on Electronics Upgrades 5 currently. We are recruiting!
Grimtor	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:17:00 - [184] I'm still reading through all of this thread but wanted to know do these hidden sites MOVE or are they static? I assume they move, but if so do we have any idea on what triggers them to move and how often they do so? Thanks, I'm having a great time hunting them down. I've only found one so far (A hidden asteroid belt) but had a great time doing it and made a good profit from it too. :D
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:36:00 - [185] The DEspawn once someone completes them (or maybe after very long time and noone has found it). Until then, they won't move.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 18:20:00 - [186] Originally by: DNightmare Edited by: DNightmare on 24/01/2007 09:19:25 Hacking V, Archaology V here. And NO, I don't get every single bit of loot I find on the Cargo Scanner (Hell yeah, I would be rich & famous if I did :P) Çdit: I even get an empty can from time to time. o/ DN Awesome, that's all I was looking for. I'm gonna stop putting a cargo scanner on my ship. It's just plain depressing when you see something there that you cannot get to. Dreamdancer û Thank you as well. I appreciate you taking the time to test my hypothesis where I could not. Joerd û IÆm sorry I wasnÆt clear on that. I was commenting on the fact that one dev was talking about an ôunintendedö module effect/use came up with their Exploration sites, and a different dev was talking about an ôonlyö module effect/use. Like I said, I just wanted confirmation rather than another ôhypothesisö. I already had a hypothesis, one that has now been clearly decided to my satisfaction: Loot is chance based and skill based. You have to admit Joerd, for all that they made the game, there are quite a few dynamics that catch the devs by surprise. yet another question û You (Joerd) mentioned Hacking III being needed for certain cans. Are there also cans that have Hacking IV or V requirements? Likewise with IV and V, of course. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 18:26:00 - [187] Originally by: DNightmare The DEspawn once someone completes them (or maybe after very long time and noone has found it). Until then, they won't move. I ran across an odd situation that don't recall seeing mentioned that relates to this. I ran down a Gravimetric signal that led me to a EXPLORATION - SMALL - GNEISS site. However, there were no Gneiss asteroids. There hadn't been anyone else in system while I was scanning, so it couldn't be that someone finished mining it while I tracked it down. There was one destructible object in there, but I wouldn't expect that to "anchor" a deadspace and keep it from despawning once the 'roids were mined out. Maybe just an oddity, but I didn't have the firepower to take down the object (a cathedral ruin or somesuch) efficiently so I just left it alone. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.24 21:48:00 - [188] Originally by: Simon Jax Joerd û IÆm sorry I wasnÆt clear on that. I was commenting on the fact that one dev was talking about an ôunintendedö module effect/use came up with their Exploration sites, and a different dev was talking about an ôonlyö module effect/use. Like I said, I just wanted confirmation rather than another ôhypothesisö. I already had a hypothesis, one that has now been clearly decided to my satisfaction: Loot is chance based and skill based. You have to admit Joerd, for all that they made the game, there are quite a few dynamics that catch the devs by surprise. yet another question û You (Joerd) mentioned Hacking III being needed for certain cans. Are there also cans that have Hacking IV or V requirements? Likewise with IV and V, of course. The "unintended" effect was to do with cargo scanners. The "only" was to do with a completely different mechanic. If you want to say that sometimes the devs do things which have unintended consequences and that that should be borne in mind, that's fine. However, I don't see how things could have occurred such that your skill level by some "unintended" mechanism suddenly affects the quality or quantity of your loot drop. It just doen't make any sense. As to hacking etc, I have level 3 in all three miniprofessions and have found no cans that I can't open. Given that (the skill req nerf for salvaging aside) the mechanics and implementation of each profession are effectively identical, it should be possible to extrapolate from one to the others, if not conclusively then at least in support of a working hypothesis. In this case salvaging 1 is required for wrecks of all T1 ships and basic NPCs, salvaging 2 makes no difference to the ability to salvage anything and salvaging 3 lets you salvage all T2, faction and officer wrecks. As there are no "better" wrecks this suggests that there are two capability thresholds - level 1 and level 3 - and this supports empirical evidence obtained from the other two professions. If someone does find a can that a level 3 skill can't access then I'll rethink that, but for now it seems a fairly solid conclusion.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:51:00 - [189] Edited by: Simon Jax on 24/01/2007 23:50:40 Originally by: Joerd Toastius As to hacking etc, I have level 3 in all three miniprofessions and have found no cans that I can't open. Given that (the skill req nerf for salvaging aside) the mechanics and implementation of each profession are effectively identical, it should be possible to extrapolate from one to the others, if not conclusively then at least in support of a working hypothesis. In this case salvaging 1 is required for wrecks of all T1 ships and basic NPCs, salvaging 2 makes no difference to the ability to salvage anything and salvaging 3 lets you salvage all T2, faction and officer wrecks. As there are no "better" wrecks this suggests that there are two capability thresholds - level 1 and level 3 - and this supports empirical evidence obtained from the other two professions. If someone does find a can that a level 3 skill can't access then I'll rethink that, but for now it seems a fairly solid conclusion. It's likely that I'm cynical, but all I really wanted to be sure that the hacking / archaeology / salvage was working as intended. Sounds like it does, so I'm happy. It stands to reason that at some point down the road there will be something that requires the Access skills at level V. Maybe another 'tier' to the loot beyond the two that exist now, or just something that gets changed around as they refine the Exploration mechanic. But it certainly doesn't sound like there's much of a reason to take hacking and archaeology beyond level III, which is what I really wanted to know. I'm certainly taking the Cargo Scanner off my ship though. Last night I saw an Interface BPC in the loot table (in a 0.3 system!). There are times when it's just better to not know. As an aside, I was all ticked off when they nerfed the skill requirements for Salvage from Survey V to Survey III until I saw that Survey V was a pre-req for Archaeology. Made me feel a whole lot better about what I thought had been a 'lost' week of skill training. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Gabriel Blade	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:03:00 - [190] I tracked down a grav signature today in a 0.5 system, which turned out to be a "Small Hemorphite, Jaspet, Kernite" field, at least that was what it was labeled. When I actually arrived, however, there were no mineable asteroids of any kind. There were a few barren/hollow asteroids as well as a wrecks shuttle all of which were apparently cosmetic. I would recommend to any devs who might read this post that empty deadspace complexes like this be removed from the game. Exploration is a time consuming task, and while there is rightly an aspect of gambling to it I don't think it's necessary to include an absolutely worthless result as a possible outcome.
DNightmare Caldari Psyballz	Posted - 2007.01.25 10:47:00 - [191] Those completly empty Exploration Sites, seem to sum up in the last couple of weeks, reports of this mainly started after the last 24hrs DBase Downtime. Before that date, I didn't have a single, not despawning after completition, Site. Now I get 4-5 in a row when digging thru a constellation. It's still unknown if you can do anything against it or what causes all this, but hopefully it will get fixed soon... Till then, it's all about keeping cool and just continue to look for the next and hopefully not empty, Site. o/ DN
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.01.25 10:48:00 - [192] Yeah, I binned cargo scanners too, because I need the midslots and it's just irritating using them atm :P
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Strategic Analysis Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2007.01.25 13:26:00 - [193] I'm keeping the scanner on my ship because if I see a really good item in a can that I can't get I'll be calling across my alliance chat asking for people who have the skills and are nearby to come give it a shot. Those invention related bpc's seem to be 3 run bpc's. Thus if one of those are there and someone else can pry it out I should get one run for myself. We are recruiting!
Liliane Woodhead	Posted - 2007.01.25 13:44:00 - [194] Hmmm this all seems to be very time intensive and of cause ... buggy. Saying this after spending several hours on a radar signature. ... rince and repeat this several days. But i want the big hit, so i have to move on Or give us new celestial types, hmmm lets say Black holes, we can put probes, isk ,ships and our brain in
Eau Tete	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:54:00 - [195] HMM I have found a lot of player corporations sites and lost drones in a 0.6 world. Haven't received my short range probes by courier yet so haven't been beyond quest probes
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.25 23:53:00 - [196] I think part of the reason CCP put the Exploration piece into the game was to help them clean up space. Sure, it's nice to grab those drones or, if you feel the urge, pop someone's safespotted shuttle ... but really, it's just janitorial work that we don't get paid for! We should form a union. --Wherever you go, there you are.
KnightTemplar	Posted - 2007.01.28 03:51:00 - [197] Thanks for the guide, man. On my second exploration attempt I found an 'Exploration - Medium - Omber' using only 1 multispec, 1 gravi pursuit probe and like 6 snoops (only had astrometrics II, couldn't use the other probe types).
Reysing Tafe	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:26:00 - [198] Originally by: Gabriel Blade I tracked down a grav signature today in a 0.5 system, which turned out to be a "Small Hemorphite, Jaspet, Kernite" field, at least that was what it was labeled. When I actually arrived, however, there were no mineable asteroids of any kind. There were a few barren/hollow asteroids as well as a wrecks shuttle all of which were apparently cosmetic. ... I (well, my alt actually ) had something similar, though is was in low sec, and it was a "Medium Gneiss, Ochre and Crokite Belt". But before arriving to that pile of structures with no roids, this is what happened: A sift probe gave me a hit with a accuracy of 350 km. I warped to spot, and 400 km further I see the 0.0 roids, in the very same grid I warped in. Thinking 'Hooray, I got it', I bookmarked one of the roids, warped out, and warped in again... and then I came in near the worthless structures, no roids to be seen. And there was no way to warp to the roids anymore... (because I triggered the deadspace pocket). Btu I knew they were there somewhere, cause I had seen them... So I figured I was coping with an off-grid belt. Being in a deadspace I couldn't warp to it, so I fitted my interceptor with a AB (MWD don't work there) and started cruising around the worthless structures for 100s of kms, looking for the roids in the other grid ... and I found them, more than 400 km from the warp in point. It took me 1 hour to get my mining ship there, 3 hours to mine. I was hoping that the deadspace would pop after the last mined roid so I could warp my hauler straight to the cans... well, the deadspace didn't pop, onfortunately... I'll let it to your own imagination how I managed to haul all the stuff... Tractor Beams FTW.
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.29 09:28:00 - [199] Well here are my findings so far x5 Grav Sig's and out of them all I narrowed them all down x3 Lader Sig's and out of them I found 2. (the 3rd I scanned and scanned for 3 hours with no result) out of them all only 2 have not been run or have something in them. Can you say bugged at all? Maybe the patch will clear this up I dunno but its kinda sucky
Bakterienschleuder	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:33:00 - [200] Dont read the whole thread but hopefully some1 can answer some questions. Are there any structures in a Profession/Plex that has something usefull in or lead you to another location? If yes do i use an analyzer or breaker for it then? My findings: A lot of Magneto/Ladar/Radars and some Gravi (1 Large Arkonor/Mercox/Bistot, and some smaller) 3x Unknown's all empty
Eewec Ourbyni Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:06:00 - [201] Edited by: Eewec Ourbyni on 29/01/2007 12:06:29 So... Hmm. I have; Astrometrics lvl 4 Astrometric Pinpointing lvl 3 Astrometric Triangulation lvl 3 Hacking lvl 3 Archeology lvl 3 Mining out the ying yang (I'm a miner normally!) I have a few Codebreaker I's and a couple of Analyzer I's and a Scan probe launcher or two (can never have enough spares) and a few Osprey's thus kitted out for probing/hacking/archeology with a mining barge and stuff on standby once I get a 0km reading (depending on the reading). I now have some multispectral (sounds like a strange form of ghost) probes and once DT is over I'm off to try my first bought of scanning. I gather that I need some other probes to narrow down the location, which is fine, and that I'll need to be at one with the system map to place the first lot of probes. 1st Question: Do I need to actually go to the location I want a probe, or is there a left click option somewhere to launch the drone so it flies there itself? 2nd Question: Have we worked out which type of probe works best to find mining/hacking/archeology sites? 3rd Question: 115K ISK for 1 probe.... there had better be something worth it at the end... ok so that wasn't so much a question. 4th Quesiton: Is there anything I'm missing or anything else I should check for other than my list of stuff at the top to deal with these three types of site? EDIT: and he flickes to the other thread about probing... to find most of his questions answered.... doh! This is a sig... -- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio -- ... good, ain't it!
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:58:00 - [202] Answer to Eewec 1. Drop Multispectral anywhere in system. If it picks up a sig, use that type and cover as many planets as possible - have to warp to each I'm afraid - use system map for fastest route 2. Radar = Hacking, Magnometric = Archeolgoy/Salvaging, Gravametric = asteriod belts, Ladar/Unknown = complexes 3. You don't always get a good result, especialy in high sec, and you can use many probes to find a site. 1 Multi, plus 3 to 9 quest, may need more than 1 set for tough to find sites, worst I've used is 3 sets so far, 0 - 2 pursuit / combs, depending on accuracy, and 1 - 6 (worst I've had so far) sifts, so a really tough to find site in a big system, with bad rolls could be 25 - 30 probes worst case. Often however you will use as little as 4 in a small system with good rolls. This is with Astro 4, Others at 3. Also quite a few sites are empty, and even those that aren't don't contain much. I found 2 Hacking and 1 Arc/Sal sites over the weekend. None run before - I had to kill the rats - 70k bouties between the 3 sites, got 1x750k decrypter from the 8 cans in the 2 hacking sites, 4x900k salvage parts and 8x20k salvage parts from the arc/sal site. Then found a medium omber roid belt and got 21 million of ore from it! So it goes - but ore belts seem to remain after mining, so you might find them empty sometimes! Also found a haunted yard (bugged drone site) which was empty too. 4 more sigs in constellation to find, 2 unknown, 2 gravs (think I'll be mining a lot this week) ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:52:00 - [203] ok just went on sisi yo check the material needs for a exploartion probe and they dont need any stront, nano, and hyper minerals, will this be the same on tranquility tomorrow as i have about 15m in those materials :)
alcohorik	Posted - 2007.01.29 14:46:00 - [204] Hi loving the exploration stuff and annoying everyone in the explo channel However i am really annoyed at the fact you get no rewards from hidden complex's?? TO CCP what is the point in having these in game? surely it would be better to include a chance based system where you may or may not get a reward for clearing the plex bit like the other sites? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that feels this way.....TBH if they do not change this in some way shape or form i think myself and many more will give up what has become a really interesting part of the game. PLEASE DO SOMETHING CCP in the meantime where did i put them quests.......
snakebreath	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:23:00 - [205] Edited by: snakebreath on 30/01/2007 10:19:51 Originally by: alcohorik Hi loving the exploration stuff and annoying everyone in the explo channel However i am really annoyed at the fact you get no rewards from hidden complex's?? TO CCP what is the point in having these in game? surely it would be better to include a chance based system where you may or may not get a reward for clearing the plex bit like the other sites? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that feels this way.....TBH if they do not change this in some way shape or form i think myself and many more will give up what has become a really interesting part of the game. PLEASE DO SOMETHING CCP in the meantime where did i put them quests....... It aready is chanced based on finding something from the cans in explore sites. High hacking/arch skills help too. Although I would like to see the drop rate raised a tad bit,but there is still a chance.
JLBane	Posted - 2007.01.31 12:44:00 - [206] Haunted Yard - post update. We re-entered "Haunted Yard" last night and got a nasty shock. As reported previously, before the patch the site was devoid of life and only a shuttle wreck, drone silo and a few leaking casks were present. Thanks to Kali the site now has a plethora of evil drones that cost my corp colleague 2 cruisers and I almost lost my Enyo. There are worker drones, builder drones, corporate worker drones, webbing and jamming drones, etc - about 15 or 16 in total. Be warned! Anyway, on a more positive note, prior to the update we found that using a cargo scanner on the leaking casks revealed their contents which included a 1st Tier overseer's personal effects and some other random junk. The most interesting item was a damaged keycard which suggests there could be an escalation path. Now to get the damn casks open...
Brazz SilverPocket Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:29:00 - [207] Edited by: Brazz SilverPocket on 31/01/2007 16:26:32 Thanks for the update on "Haunted Yard" JLBane - Now I need to go back and see if the one I found is working now (And hasn't already been run.) Thanks. BTW - I found my first Hacking site last night (First that worked anyway) only 2 easily dispatched NPCs guarding 3 Info Shards - two of which were empty, but the third had 57 Current Amplifiers in it. :) ------------- We must...go now?
Marco P	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:40:00 - [208] Just to confirm a report above - since the patch a previously cleared (but rewardless) complex has respawned. So any old sites you know of are worth a check!
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:09:00 - [209] OMG INFO OVERLOAD!!!! Wow this is great stuff here (even if 90% of it went straight over my head). I wash there was a way to set up a tutorial specified for what type of site you are planning to hunt (eg. arc, roid, hack etc.) But to be honest, and I appreciate the time the explorers have taken, I really do, but if I want to hunt asteroid belts it sounds like I'm gonna have to have someone beside me in gang teaching me step by step so I can actually absorb it all. (I'm a doer, not a reader :P) In spite of my troubles, I salute your contribution to the community. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:43:00 - [210] I had found a "Dirty Site" while scanning down a RADAR signal last night. Normally, I more or less ignore Unknown signal hits. I thought I'd check it out to see if they had improved these sites as promised. Indeed they did. I found myself facing a couple dozen rogue drones frigates, and three rogue drone cruisers that gave me a whole lot more trouble than I expected. I managed to clear them out (flying an Ishkur with good drones and salvage gear instead of guns), but there were a few times that I was in trouble. There were two that webbed me and at least one more that scrambled me. I went ahead and tried salvaging the drones. Lo and behold, drones yielded slavage! Cleared the wrecks and went towards the acceleration gate. Another set of rogue drones spawned ("protectors") shortly followed by another group. Right nasty little bastards, I found myself webbed and scrambled again. Killed, looted and salvaged them and hit the gate. Being full up on cargo and very low on sleep, I just stayed long enough to see another dozen or so rogue drones and no additonal acceleration gate before heading to station. I might see if it's still there and check it out tonight, but that's the scoop on the Dirty Site that I found. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Bordric	Posted - 2007.02.01 08:20:00 - [211] Do you really need to cover every planet? Or could you just try the outer or inner to start with? Just wondering
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.01 10:50:00 - [212] You could just do some, but with probes now being cheap as chips I don't see any reason to. The site you're after could be at any planet, and given that you can analyze all probes simultaneously, doing some at a time has the pro that it may save you 100k isk and the con that it may double or triple the time spent looking.
JLBane Gallente Libertae Nolvm	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:30:00 - [213] We found an asteroid site too. It now respawns at the same time as normal belts and its been great for our noxicum reserves. Bordric, you can start scanning very simply with a multi-spec probe and then follow up on any signals it uncovers. (I assume thats what you were getting at, if not - ignore me ). It's Elite with bells on...
BGG Liason	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:49:00 - [214] It really was essential that the Ladar and unknown sites be made worth clearing. They were being ignored by players and, given that there can only be a certain amount of active sites in a constellation at any time, were squeezing out the Radar, Grav and Mag sites.
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.02 01:49:00 - [215] Just wanted to say "thank you" for this nice guide! @everyone: Read this guide before asking the same questions over and over. It really explains most (if not all) of the things you really need to find something _______________
Ewali Miis	Posted - 2007.02.02 04:57:00 - [216] First attempt at Exploration, found a gravametric site, pinpointed it. Can't remember the exact name, but it had: Jaspet, Kernite, Ombre in it's name, so looks like a mining site, had 3 very weak drones spawn on me, no problems, but no asteroids. There were a bunch of debris, etc lying around, the only thing of note was an infested station....destroyed it, nothing happened, no loot, nothing. Is this a bugged site? Or am I missing something? Not overly worried as this is obviously a low end site in hi-sec space, and I was just using it as a practice run on finding them.
Reysing Tafe	Posted - 2007.02.02 08:11:00 - [217] Originally by: Ewali Miis First attempt at Exploration, found a gravametric site, pinpointed it. Can't remember the exact name, but it had: Jaspet, Kernite, Ombre in it's name, so looks like a mining site, had 3 very weak drones spawn on me, no problems, but no asteroids. There were a bunch of debris, etc lying around, the only thing of note was an infested station....destroyed it, nothing happened, no loot, nothing. Is this a bugged site? Or am I missing something? Not overly worried as this is obviously a low end site in hi-sec space, and I was just using it as a practice run on finding them. it's a buggy site, as pointed out here; bug report it.
JLBane Gallente Libertae Nolvm	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:09:00 - [218] Edited by: JLBane on 02/02/2007 13:05:57 I think they should call it "C r a c k - sploration" - way too addictive! Anyway, found 2 sites in a 0.4 system last night. The 1st was a belt with Gneiss and Ochre. It was guarded by Strain Annihalator Drones that came 6 at a time and respawned imediately if you killed the last one. We killed all but one and tanked the last. We mined around 80k m3 of ore which was a very welcome bonus (around 6000 zydrine). The 2nd site was called, "Serpentis Provisional Outpost" and had 2 rooms. The 1st room spawned some tough Tristan type frigates, a cruiser, then a wave of the same again. The 2nd room spawned 8 cruisers, a bc and several frigates all coming in various waves so they were easy to deal with. The site hasn't closed so we can't have cleared it. I found the 2nd hidden site using Ladar probes. I managed to get away with dropping 4 Ladar Quest probes around the system which covered all the planets. After the result came in I warped to the 1st spot and dropped a Ladar Comb. It pinpointed the site and I warped in at 10km from the gate. Hope this helps, good luck with your voyages of discovery. It's Elite with bells on...
SephiriotH REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:21:00 - [219] Edited by: SephiriotH on 02/02/2007 17:19:38 Damn.. so MANY errors and misleadings in this topic archeology plexes never contain datacores , hacking plexes never contain skillbooks ..just to correct a few. And yeah .. somebody had requested a view on gas clouds - enjoy . embrace the sky ...once more. And those could be found outside of cosmos or special 0.0 constellations. They are quite rare though. As for me, I personally hope that ccp someday fixes the bug when exploration site spawns further than 4au from any planet , as finding them is very timetaxing and annoying. (however, still possible ) Remember : With a bad word and good torpedo you are always hurting more then with a bad word alone.
Zeveron Generals Of Destruction Syndicate X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.02 18:25:00 - [220] any update on proffecion sites (hacking, archeology) at drone regions? they still dont spawn or its fixed after the patch? ----------------------------------
Mon'Arth	Posted - 2007.02.02 22:15:00 - [221] Been doing Exploration like crazy for the past week. Found over 15 sites, from roids to fortesses. After completing/clearing the sites I decided to wait a day and check to see if anything shows up on the Multi probes in these systems. Yup, new site found different sig. So now I run a route of systems, droping Multis just to see if anything comes up, pinpoint it, clear it, start all over. Anyone else try this?
Ted Raald	Posted - 2007.02.03 22:36:00 - [222] Originally by: JLBane Haunted Yard - post update. We re-entered "Haunted Yard" last night and got a nasty shock. As reported previously, before the patch the site was devoid of life and only a shuttle wreck, drone silo and a few leaking casks were present. Have just got an escalation from "Haunted Yard" saying a large fleet went that away! (about 5 jumps) Didn't have too much problem with a Caracal(scourge) but was at 50% shield for a while and AB on all the time, think the builder drones were spamming Explosive missiles so caution armour tankers, also the gate will only let you take Cruisers and Frigs including AF's through. Just scanning out second site now will keep you updated.
the blender	Posted - 2007.02.04 04:38:00 - [223] Just started Exploration today with good results so far. Three sites found 1 desolate site, nothing there, blew the two infested ruins and nothing. Then I found 2 guristas hideouts, the second already seemed to be run when I found it. But the first had few Guristas frigates in the first room and a few structures. killed everything no noteable loot moved on to the second gate about 60km from warp in. Three Guristas frigates are there for a second then warp out. I get a message saying that my nav computer has plotted where they went and did I want to follow. Hell yes! at this point I opened my journal and clicked on expeditions where it had the message and a 45min countdown on a bookmark 6 jumps away, 6 jumps later and I jump into the system. I then open my journal again and right click on the expedition entry, select warp to location, and I warp straight into the three frigates and a message that they have warped out again and have headed 4 jumps away again, another message in my journal with a 50min timelimit. I follow with dreams of untold riches and officer rats at the end of this quest. 4 jumps away I warp into system, then warp to the bookmark in my journal and this time only one of the frigates warps away leaving me to kill the other two, noprobs, no loot to speak of. I have another message saying that one got away and would I like to follow it for another 6 jumps, by this time I would like nothing better than to at least pop the little begger in a fiery death of Great British Cruise Missiles, so I follow. I get to the final destination, quite near where I started and there in front of me is that damned frigate and in pops a named officer frigate as well(sorry dont remeber the name) I kill both in seconds and loot their sorry corpses and turn up a small pith c class shield booster. So a very modest end to my first escalating storyline, it was fun and different to mission running or rat hunting, and Im thouroughly addicted to exploration.
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.02.04 12:09:00 - [224] Found my first exploration site last night in a fit of boredom, hacking, pulled around 365 million isk value of crap I've never heard of out of it. Found another an hour or so later in a near by system, this one is an arch site from what I can gather, while waiting for someone with arch skills to get to the site (still waiting) I scanned the 6 cans and all showed empty. Waste of time, or cargo scanners don't work for this purpose?
Marco P	Posted - 2007.02.04 17:46:00 - [225] Scanning worked up to last patch - supposed to be fixed now (so scanning wont show anything). I have not verified that the patch worked!)
link741	Posted - 2007.02.04 23:42:00 - [226] is it enough to launch an only probe to be sure that the system is empty? otherwise how many probes have to launch for being sure that am empty? Thanks.
Irons	Posted - 2007.02.05 00:54:00 - [227] Finally got my first decent hit today since the patch (barring rubbish roid belts). Found a Radar site in a 0.3 system that was a real pig to pin down 'Profession - Hacking - Base 2 - Sansha Nation'. Site was very pretty with 6 Hackable cans around a Sansha Battle Tower, an EM forcefield and what can only be described as a large glowy tumbleweed in space. Four out of six of the cans had items, and i eventually surfaced (after losing my baby Anathema) with 69 Auxilliary parts, 17 positron cords, 5 force cables, 1 bpc run occult data interface, 1 bpc run occult tuner data interface. Finally some results :) Now i just need the ship interface, so onwards and upwards!!
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.02.05 01:06:00 - [228] Originally by: doctorstupid2 Found my first exploration site last night in a fit of boredom, hacking, pulled around 365 million isk value of crap I've never heard of out of it. Found another an hour or so later in a near by system, this one is an arch site from what I can gather, while waiting for someone with arch skills to get to the site (still waiting) I scanned the 6 cans and all showed empty. Waste of time, or cargo scanners don't work for this purpose? Was a waste of time after all, Serpentis base 3, dropped maybe 300k worth of salvage parts. Glad I dumped 3 hours and tons of probes into it
JLBane Gallente Libertae Nolvm	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:46:00 - [229] Originally by: link741 is it enough to launch an only probe to be sure that the system is empty? otherwise how many probes have to launch for being sure that am empty? Thanks. Enter a system, drop a multi-spec probe ensuring you have selected the type of things you wish to scan for (there are 5 groups) and wait for the results. If it finds nothing the system is empty so move to another system and try again. Once you get a hit you begin the process of planet scanning and if you look at the system map before you start you'll be able to cut down on the amount of probes you need to use, thus saving you isk and time. It's Elite with bells on...
link741	Posted - 2007.02.05 13:53:00 - [230] Originally by: JLBane Originally by: link741 is it enough to launch an only probe to be sure that the system is empty? otherwise how many probes have to launch for being sure that am empty? Thanks. Enter a system, drop a multi-spec probe ensuring you have selected the type of things you wish to scan for (there are 5 groups) and wait for the results. If it finds nothing the system is empty so move to another system and try again. Once you get a hit you begin the process of planet scanning and if you look at the system map before you start you'll be able to cut down on the amount of probes you need to use, thus saving you isk and time. than after 1 fail I'm sure the system is empty, there am no probability that there is something.
JLBane Gallente Libertae Nolvm	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:27:00 - [231] I've tried again on several occasions Link and still got the same results. It's been said that the sites move around regions and systems so if one day you don't find anything, come back a few days later. And ask yourself, why waste time and money if you find nothing the 1st time? Move on, try somewhere new, come back at a later date. It's Elite with bells on...
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:54:00 - [232] When a multispec shows nothing, there is nothing in the system. It is conceivable that there is a sudden spawn or some kind of bug that would make this untrue, but I would highly recommend moving on. Sites can spawn/respawn on a daily basis, theoretically, but for that day just move on. To the person who found the Interface BPC's in 0.3 space I have two things to say: 1) Thanks for the info, it's great to know these can be found in lowsec now. 2) Well, aren't you the lucky ****er. :P --Wherever you go, there you are.
Brazz SilverPocket Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:14:00 - [233] Alright, I've got a system with two signature in it right now, I Unknown and the other Gravimetric. I'm on Gallente space so I started with a Gravimetric probes first, and after some time I got a hit and scanned it down using Grav probes - Desolation Site. Of course like everyone else I've found the site to be bugged and empty...or at least cleared and not despawned. So I head back out and deploy RADAR probes...scan for the duration and hit nothing. LADAR probes, scan and get another hit. I work it down and what do my eyes see? Desolation site again...same exact location too. So what gives? Desolation Site is WHAT kind of signature? Gravimetric? LADAR? Other? How should I proceed to find the second site in the system? Probes are cheap so I can easily keep trying all until the signature is gone, but I'm wondering how to best proceed. Any ideas? ------------- We must...go now?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:32:00 - [234] Originally by: Brazz SilverPocket Edited by: Brazz SilverPocket on 05/02/2007 19:23:11 Alright, I've got a system with two signature in it right now, I Unknown and the other Gravimetric. I'm on Gallente space so I started with a Gravimetric probes first, and after some time I got a hit and scanned it down using Grav probes - "Desolate Site". Of course like everyone else I've found the site to be bugged and empty...or at least cleared and not despawned. So I head back out and deploy RADAR probes...scan for the duration and hit nothing. LADAR probes, scan and get another hit. I work it down and what do my eyes see? "Desolate Site" again...same exact location too. So what gives? Desolate Site is WHAT kind of signature? Gravimetric? LADAR? Other? How should I proceed to find the second site in the system? Probes are cheap so I can easily keep trying all until the signature is gone, but I'm wondering how to best proceed. Any ideas? Desolate site is your UNKNOWN - and it can be found with any type of probes. Just because you scanned with the gravs doesnt mean you found the grav site, as it had an equal chance of finding the unknown. Stick to gravs, and while they might find the desolate site again (and may well do so more than once) they're theonly ones with a good chance of turning up the other, gravimetric, site. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Brazz SilverPocket Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:42:00 - [235] Thanks El Yatta, that's what I thought....the sad part is Grav and LADAR probes both found that unknown. A LADAR probe has a far better chance of finding a LADAR site then a Grav, Rad or Magno site. It's odd that I found the same site with different types..I wonder what type the site actually IS. I'll return later with Grav probes after I get out of work. ------------- We must...go now?
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2007.02.06 00:48:00 - [236] Edited by: Simon Jax on 06/02/2007 00:45:48 Unknown sites are really just of "generic" signal strength as I understand it. It doesn't matter a bit which ones you use. Also, your multispec results give you the "what you'll get" picture right off the bat. So if you see Grav and Unknown from your multispec result, you can drop LADAR probes until downtime and you'll not hit any LADAR sites. You should always bookmark the ones you find in a system, and keep the bookmark until you know it's despawned. When you get that first hit and warp to it, it'll have an accuracy number. If that accuracy number exactly matches your distance from your bookmark, then you can be pretty certain that you're seeing the same site. In theory, you could get a hit that is located equidistant between two different sites ... but the odds of that in a 3D environment would have to be staggering. It's also worth mentioning that there can be multiple sites of the same type that exist in one system. So there could be 2 separate Unknown sites in different locations. The multispec will show "Unknown" once even if there are five "Unknown" locations present in the system. My record for finds in one system thus far is 5: 3x RADAR sites and 2x Unknown. That was a long, but rather profitable, night. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.06 12:52:00 - [237] Honest question: Has the drop rate decreased again? I see A LOT less data interfaces on the market than a few days ago. Is that because ppl are actually keeping them, or has the max number been capped? I also noticed fewer RADAR sites in Empire. _______________
Ichabod Crane LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.06 13:42:00 - [238] Originally by: Ione Hunt Honest question: Has the drop rate decreased again? I see A LOT less data interfaces on the market than a few days ago. Is that because ppl are actually keeping them, or has the max number been capped? I also noticed fewer RADAR sites in Empire. There are plenty of interfaces on sale around jita, and unless you're looking for a ship interface the prices are steadily dropping. Im guessing the lack of radar sites in empire is just down to more people scanning for them -
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.07 01:01:00 - [239] Originally by: Ichabod Crane Originally by: Ione Hunt Honest question: Has the drop rate decreased again? I see A LOT less data interfaces on the market than a few days ago. Is that because ppl are actually keeping them, or has the max number been capped? I also noticed fewer RADAR sites in Empire. There are plenty of interfaces on sale around jita, and unless you're looking for a ship interface the prices are steadily dropping. Im guessing the lack of radar sites in empire is just down to more people scanning for them Oh well, tonight I found out they definitly didn't reduce the drope rate, you're right _______________
Brazz SilverPocket Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.07 18:49:00 - [240] Thanks again folks. I was able to find that site - a Medium Hemorphite, Jaspet, Kernite belt. Sadly someone had already beaten me to it and ate all of the Hemorphite and all but a portion of one Jaspet, but they left a bit of Kernite..so all in all I was pleased. :) Exploration IS fun, and profitable. :D ------------- We must...go now?
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.02.09 18:20:00 - [241] a quick question, after dropping one multispec frequency probe i get back " unknown " as a scan result. At this point i should drop multiple quest probes of the same type or should I drop the same type around the moons of the system ? The unknown result is making things fuzzy for me.
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.02.10 16:00:00 - [242] you use any kind of quests for unknowns, i use grav since i never use these probs, since im in 0.0
Zeveron Generals Of Destruction Syndicate X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.11 12:12:00 - [243] Originally by: Zeveron any update on proffecion sites (hacking, archeology) at drone regions? they still dont spawn or its fixed after the patch? any update on this? ----------------------------------
Ryu Jin'Ma	Posted - 2007.02.12 18:09:00 - [244] Originally by: DNightmare DNightmare's Exploration Site*1 (works only ingame) I am very concerned sir about the nature of your website. Why does your website require a trust relationship? I allowed it so that I may see what your site offers and what clever uses you may have put the Eve browser to... but alas there was absolutely nothing, nothing at all, on your site that required Eve Browser Trust. So I ask, besides my character name, corporation, and ip address now in a database you've set up... what else was the point of your in game only website?
Zantow Zantee	Posted - 2007.02.12 21:46:00 - [245] I have complteded 2 Arch/Salvg sites and the only thing I have found are some rig parts. Anyone else finding more and if so is there more to the sites other than just the floating cans and debris? Tried to salavage and analyse other things there but it says I can't. Just wondering if I am doing everything I am suppose to at these sites. Having fun though. Zantow
Ausser	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:53:00 - [246] Originally by: Ryu Jin'Ma Originally by: DNightmare DNightmare's Exploration Site1 (works only ingame) I am very concerned sir about the nature of your website. Why does your website require a trust relationship? I allowed it so that I may see what your site offers and what clever uses you may have put the Eve browser to... but alas there was absolutely nothing, nothing at all, on your site that required Eve Browser Trust. So I ask, besides my character name, corporation, and ip address now in a database you've set up... what else was the point of your in game only website? The trusted sites also get information about in which system* u are each time your browser loads a page. Have fun
Huckstero Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:39:00 - [247] Guys - how do you deal with multiple signals? It's easy when you have 2 - like "Unknown" (complex) and Gravimetric (hidden belt) - you just use Gravimetric probes and try to get two signals using one type of probes only. But what do you do when you get 3 signals in one location? (a friend from Corp had that case yesterday) - when u have Magnetometric, LADAR and Unknown... Use Magnetometric or LADAR to pinpoint 2 spots and then use another type to pinpoint the last one?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:08:00 - [248] Originally by: Huckstero Guys - how do you deal with multiple signals? I had a trio of signals once. I simply decided to go with the radar signal first. And eventually uncovered all three with radar. Unknown will be scannable with any probe type. So if you go with Ladar, for example, you should find the Ladar and Unknown site with greater ease than the Magnetometric site. This does not exclude the possiblity that the Ladar probe will still find the Mag site though. Tangent: In game browser spying is bad. Shame on you using other people's work in your dirty deeds. I'd also suspect you may have crossed some troubling lines as you announced this "in game" link through the forums but it is "in game" and not a forum fraud. Have Fun The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.02.17 19:56:00 - [249] Originally by: Ausser Originally by: Ryu Jin'Ma Originally by: DNightmare DNightmare's Exploration Site1 (works only ingame) I am very concerned sir about the nature of your website. Why does your website require a trust relationship? I allowed it so that I may see what your site offers and what clever uses you may have put the Eve browser to... but alas there was absolutely nothing, nothing at all, on your site that required Eve Browser Trust. So I ask, besides my character name, corporation, and ip address now in a database you've set up... what else was the point of your in game only website? The trusted sites also get information about in which system* u are each time your browser loads a page. Have fun exactly what i was thinking everytime i hear "READ MY PAGE" in the exploration channel...
Trilium Eagle	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:45:00 - [250] Any ideas about site called "Radiance". I been there about 4 times now. site won't dissapear and even after destroying all of buildings nothing happens.
Jonaaka Kaliin Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.18 03:23:00 - [251] I had a question that I wanted some clarification, if at all possible: I launch probes at each planet in a given system. Sometimes, the message that my probes overlap is given, so I spread them out-the entire system's planets are covered by my Quest probes. Now, scan after scan, there is never a result. All my skills are 4 or 5 for scanning/probing, so the only idea I have left to check is do I need to put probes in the space between planets? For example, if all the planets are covered, but planet IX, which has a probe near it already, is 40AU on the edge of the system. Do I need to put probes every 4.5AU from planet IX inwards?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.18 10:51:00 - [252] No. Also, for everyone *****ing about the "trust" thing, last time I checked it was needed to make the site DB work. Deal with it, or find answers to your questions yourself.
Acalin	Posted - 2007.02.18 11:10:00 - [253] Great topic, After scanning 18 systems I finally got a signal. Unknown. So we place the quest probes. We get a loc, we go there probe again, nothing. Back to first loc and after a few tries we finnaly manage to get to the Unknown. A warpgate into a deadspace pocket. It contains a few worker drones (normal loot) and 2 tainted ruins (we blow em, nothing). Today I checked the Loc again and the place is still there. Questions: Did we forget to do something? Do they only despawn after a DT? The probed empty systems, should i reprobe them after every DT or will they stay empty till a new patch? Thats about it, btw we found that pocket in 0.8 Cheers Acalin
Acalin	Posted - 2007.02.18 11:59:00 - [254] The spot is named desolate site. the 2 infested stations respawned after DT Bug?
Ausser	Posted - 2007.02.18 12:56:00 - [255] Originally by: Joerd Toastius No. Also, for everyone ***ing about the "trust" thing, last time I checked it was needed to make the site DB work. Deal with it, or find answers to your questions yourself. joerd, thanks for your guide and this thread, its nice - no one says something else. there is no need to deal with dnightmare's db, since anything u need to know is in this thread or not db-related pages on nightmares site. but why are u upset when ppl ask questions about exploration and security related things? dnightmare's ig site collects information about what exploration sites are found. but it also gets information about 'where*' these sites were found (or at least where the player was at the time of reporting) - and most players are not aware of this* little detail. the website doesnt share this information with everybody when browsing the lists of found exploration sites. thats verry clever but not fair play. we use a similar website tool in our ally to optimize teamwork in exploration. when a signature is detected with a multi, the user can report it. the system/player name is automatically recorded. then this mate can move on and scan one system after another and so quickly cover a whole constellation. meanwhile other mates look in the database, equip ther frig with the correct type of probes and probe the systems with detected sigs. when the sites are found they are also entered in the database. now anybody from the ally can see what is where, how old the information is and who has the bookmark. team 3 starts and mines/hacks/etc... what has been found. access to the system is pw protected and anybody knows what happens when he uses this tool. that's how trusted sites can be used to enhance exploration. its cool, its fun and its fair play. now u know how such tools work - so u can use the harmless and usefull parts of dnightmare's site without to help your competitors to quickly track down where your valuable sites are. dont access the site (and other similar trusted sites) while you are in the constellation where u are exploring. best is to use an alt character in jita have fun
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.18 14:46:00 - [256] Dude, there's a difference between "CAN log which system you're in" and "DOES log which system you're in". If the site is ACTUALLY spying on people, as opposed to just POTENTIALLY spying on people, then you'd have a fair point. Also, the DB is IMO one of the most useful things about the site, and the only bit that isn't available elsewhere afaik, as it lets you know what you've found and roughly how hard it will be. Also, apologies if I came across overly grumpy, haven't had much sleep this week :P
Jonaaka Kaliin Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.19 12:15:00 - [257] Originally by: Joerd Toastius No. Also, for everyone *****ing about the "trust" thing, last time I checked it was needed to make the site DB work. Deal with it, or find answers to your questions yourself. Thank you. Your work has helped me kick off my own explorations, and the results thusofar have been outstanding. Thanks for all your work and documentation!
Assur Minmatar Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.19 21:25:00 - [258] Edited by: Assur on 19/02/2007 21:22:45 Originally by: Ione Hunt Honest question: Has the drop rate decreased again? I see A LOT less data interfaces on the market than a few days ago. Is that because ppl are actually keeping them, or has the max number been capped? I also noticed fewer RADAR sites in Empire. Don't think it has. Might be that people buy them directly now. And reguarding the radar thing. I've noticed the same trend. I'm guessing it is due to the amount of isk to be made in a single one. Devil touched me in my sig space :'(
nosrub	Posted - 2007.02.21 14:45:00 - [259] Hey. Can there be exploration sites high sec. as low sech. And where do the have the best chanche to find them. I have run around in 0.8 til 0.5 but havent got anything on my scanner. So im quessing, do i have to go to a more risky place to get some results. Is that correct. ???
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.21 15:12:00 - [260] Originally by: nosrub Hey. Can there be exploration sites high sec. as low sech. And where do the have the best chanche to find them. I have run around in 0.8 til 0.5 but havent got anything on my scanner. So im quessing, do i have to go to a more risky place to get some results. Is that correct. ??? /me shoots himself in the head again for fun. Yes. Sites are distributed equally throughout the universe. That includes highsec. And they don't show up on scanner, you need to use multispecs. This question has been asked and answered like half a dozen times in this thread, BTW...
Shylok Gallente Black-Mesa THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.02.21 21:21:00 - [261] Just found my first Arc/Sal site on Monday night and was pleasantly suprised to find a Minmatar Encryption skill book. And, of course, assorted junk. Not bad for an hours worth of work. Unfortunately, I lost conn when I still had 2 cans to go, so I auto-warped out and when I came back the site was gone. I bent my wookie.
Jastra Gallente Gallente Venture Inc	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:19:00 - [262] I have read the post but haven't seen this asked/answered.... So, I'm playing around for the first time with exploration and probes, but I was wondering how critical it was that you have a covert ops cloak, against let's say a Improved II cloak. Are their specific reasons why a covert cloak is the choice?
Squelch Crowd Control	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:46:00 - [263] Covert ops cloaks are prefered as you can warp around your system without uncloaking. Especially useful if like me, you are a solo explorer in low sec.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:14:00 - [264] ^^ It's not "necessary" per se (although a covops ship pretty much is), but it makes you a hell of a lot safer. Imp Cloak II doesn't let you warped cloaked, which makes you more vulnerable. But it's better than nothing, I guess...
Asmodia Vex	Posted - 2007.02.26 01:44:00 - [265] Ok so I have trained up Covert Ops, cloaking, working on astrometrics. Once I have discovered all these hidden places how do I make money off of them, obviously Im not taking out a bunch of rats with a Cheetah. Do I have to sell the location to a corp or join a corp to help kill everything then share the loot from the system? How do I make money off of exploration results?
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:42:00 - [266] To make money depends on the site - mine out the roids belts - takes quite some time solo, but even in 0.5 / 0.6 they should be worth 20 million or so. Some plexes can be mined too - makes sure you mine out the first room before clearing the second or they might despawn. With the Radar and Magnetometric sites, fly back in a combat ship fitted with the correct modules so you can open the cans once you have disposed of the guards. In high / low sec an AF should be enough. In 0.0 a HAC / BC should be able to complete the sites solo. Remember to bookmark a can so you can return and salvage after the site has despawned. If you get a plex beware - solo in 0.0 you will not be able to complete them - they can 10/10 equivalent difficulty! ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Simon Jax Gallente Freedom Guard Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 17:57:00 - [267] HereÆs something that I found effective for quite some time. Get a hauler that can fit at a minimum 2x Giant Secure cans. Put your scanning Frigate (CovOps or otherwise) in one and an Assault Frigate and its fittings in the other. Since I preferred lowsec Exploration to highsec, I always fit WCS in the lows and a cloak in the high slot. You now have a fully mobile ôbaseö for all your exploration needs. It fits a dang good supply of Probes for all signature types, and I never came across anything in Hisec that I couldnÆt handle with an Assault Frigate. It lets you take everything you need with you, and you can take whatever youÆve gained back to the hauler for transport to the trade-hub of your choice. This method is not for the faint of heart, and it is absolutely vital that you know the area you will be traveling in exceptionally well. Yes, I even put the oh-so-expensive Covert Ops cloak into my Exploration Hauler, putting the overall value of the thing to upwards of 150 million isk (at the time probes required Stront). Knowing your area is key, I scanned the same three lowsec areas (not systems, whole areas), and knew what systems were likely camped and which ones were likely clean. I made over 300 million, if not more, in this manner even before the adjustments to the exploration system. Why did I stop? 1) I put rigs on my CovOps frigate which instantly prohibited me from repackaging the ship and 2) I started doing more Deep Space exploration for which the Assault Frigate was no longer sufficient. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.28 11:44:00 - [268] Dnightmare, Thanks for your site, it is really nice and useful (however now I usally only use the database). A request for a new feature: How about showing date when a site was reported (and possibly also search by date) so we can exclude those reports that might been before fixing some sites (bith for the past and future changes).
kaufmann Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.01 20:10:00 - [269] hmm, did they nerv the find-rate recently, i am just returning to exploration after 3 weeks, and i am not able to pin a mangnetotronic site. Quest probes works after 10 tries (around 1 hour) then sift probes (accuracy was <0.5 AU) : nothing. i wasted around 10 Mag-sifts.. i have pinpointing lvl 3, and triangulation lvl 4. Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
Talizman Caldari The Drone Shop	Posted - 2007.03.03 11:02:00 - [270] I just started getting a problem that i have not come across before. After getting a Multi show up a sig, i drop quest probes and get a hit, but the 1st hit drops me at a point with an accuracy of approx 1.15 AU from the deadspace. Now this is too far for both my sift and comb probes, and the quest wont pick the sig up anymore if i drop one of those. I spent over 6 hours last night on a mag and then a radar signal both with the same problem. Anyone come across this? Have CCP been pulling levers again I have not had this problem till now, and have good astro skills (lvl4 acros the board) Thanks
CaptainEO	Posted - 2007.03.03 11:11:00 - [271] Use a Pursuit probe - they have a 2AU range.
Talizman Caldari The Drone Shop	Posted - 2007.03.03 11:15:00 - [272] Oh, bugger, yeah Forgot all about the Pursuit probes, never needed to use them b4. Kinda funny how the mind begins to work at 2.00am Thanks
sbaker Amarr Bogans INC	Posted - 2007.03.12 12:16:00 - [273] I just like to say is great, keep up with info and posts. After reading all the posts, ideas , question I know what I doing wrong its my skills that pinpoint skill i got is only level 1 its like looking for word on an screen but it not hightlighted or something, So far I have found 2 "hidden complexs" Both where sanashs, It is fun to track them down it was good to see how they are traped when try to hack into them. My tip is this bookmark the complex 1st then go back and get your ship. Dont make the mistake I made of killing all the NPC ships then come back to salvage the parts the "complex" will go. My question is this....would it be better to drop the "pursuit" probe in the inner worlds, and then drop the "quests" on the outer worlds? What I am going to do is get the skills to lvl 4 then go out, doing it with lvl 1 skills you only get the the complexs with the high sign radius, well that what I think Sbaker CEO Bogans INC An PvE corp Some people have Music or MP3....I collect EvE videos that I watch during downtime...oh well... My top 5 videos and worst top 5 videos coming soon!.
pulse1976 Minmatar Far Edge Outcasts	Posted - 2007.03.12 13:02:00 - [274] I've read through most of the 10 pages here, but has anyone found a gas cloud in a high sec system? The reason I'm asking is that I have found (with my first ever scan!) a gravimetric signiture in a 0.5 system. When I tracked it down all that was there was a big asteroid (no I couldn't mine it) which was surrounded by a cloud. I couldn't target the cloud and there wasn't any other items in the vacinity. Anyone else found something along these lines? There are people out there who have whitty signitures for their forum posts. I'm dull and boring and hence I can't think of one right now. So I decided to write this for the time being. Thanks
kember Gallente Orion Faction	Posted - 2007.03.12 14:08:00 - [275] Edited by: kember on 12/03/2007 14:05:32 Originally by: sbaker I just like to say is great, keep up with info and posts. After reading all the posts, ideas , question I know what I doing wrong its my skills that pinpoint skill i got is only level 1 its like looking for word on an screen but it not hightlighted or something, So far I have found 2 "hidden complexs" Both where sanashs, It is fun to track them down it was good to see how they are traped when try to hack into them. My tip is this bookmark the complex 1st then go back and get your ship. Dont make the mistake I made of killing all the NPC ships then come back to salvage the parts the "complex" will go. My question is this....would it be better to drop the "pursuit" probe in the inner worlds, and then drop the "quests" on the outer worlds? What I am going to do is get the skills to lvl 4 then go out, doing it with lvl 1 skills you only get the the complexs with the high sign radius, well that what I think Sbaker CEO Bogans INC An PvE corp The sites can spawn within 4au of any of the planets. So you need to use quest probes, using pursuits to scan the planets would leave you with blind spots. Originally by: pulse1976 I've read through most of the 10 pages here, but has anyone found a gas cloud in a high sec system? The reason I'm asking is that I have found (with my first ever scan!) a gravimetric signiture in a 0.5 system. When I tracked it down all that was there was a big asteroid (no I couldn't mine it) which was surrounded by a cloud. I couldn't target the cloud and there wasn't any other items in the vacinity. Anyone else found something along these lines? A gravmetric with no roids to mine? Yeah I found one of those. Its bugged - petition it (Though check you have "mining default" set on your overview settings first, the roids can be hard to spot sometimes)
pulse1976 Minmatar Far Edge Outcasts	Posted - 2007.03.12 15:07:00 - [276] Yeah I made sure the mining default was on and that all the roid types were selected, still nothing though. I'll check to see if its still there tonight. Thanks though. There are people out there who have whitty signitures for their forum posts. I'm dull and boring and hence I can't think of one right now. So I decided to write this for the time being. Thanks
Mog Datix Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:52:00 - [277] Got a Quest hit on a grav site that has scan strength of 1.22 and distance of 0.122 AU. We've burned about a couple of dozen Sifts with no joy. I'm thinking this is a bugged site maybe, from reading back in this thread where the scan strength looks like it should always be below 1.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:24:00 - [278] That sounds very messed up - strength greater than 1 always gives 0m deviation. Can you post a screenshot of your scan results?
Igor Epocci	Posted - 2007.03.16 05:57:00 - [279] OK, let me be the one to ask RQOTD (retarded question of the day): how do you just drop a bookmark in the middle of a jump?
kember Gallente Orion Faction	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:09:00 - [280] Originally by: Igor Epocci OK, let me be the one to ask RQOTD (retarded question of the day): how do you just drop a bookmark in the middle of a jump? Open your people and places folder, start warping and keep making bm's while your are warping. Some ships warp faster than others, I tend to use a shuttle. I make quite a few while I am warping, then use the system map to work out which one(s) to keep and delete the rest.
Rheya Solaris	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:38:00 - [281] I just starting out in Exploration and having trouble locating a gravimetric signal with quest probes. Are the signals always within 4au of a planet? or can they be anywhere in the system? I tried scanning at a few planets, no luck then I deleted the probes and put new ones on the other planets as I couldn't place them before due to close proximity to first ones. Still nothing found. Do you have to rescan again and again until the probes expire to find something? or is one attempt enough to prove nothing is there?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:46:00 - [282] Originally by: Igor Epocci OK, let me be the one to ask RQOTD (retarded question of the day): how do you just drop a bookmark in the middle of a jump? The bookmark is created when you click "ok". Thus, open P&P, go to the "locations" tab, zoom out to system map, start the warp, click "add bookmark" and then click "ok" when you think you're in position. It lags though, so placing it properly requires some practice. Originally by: Rheya Solaris I just starting out in Exploration and having trouble locating a gravimetric signal with quest probes. Are the signals always within 4au of a planet? or can they be anywhere in the system? I tried scanning at a few planets, no luck then I deleted the probes and put new ones on the other planets as I couldn't place them before due to close proximity to first ones. Still nothing found. Do you have to rescan again and again until the probes expire to find something? or is one attempt enough to prove nothing is there? Generally it will take between five and twenty analysis cycles to find a site, on average.
Rheya Solaris	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:19:00 - [283] So if the quest probes fail to find anything, you have to try again for up to about 20 times?
kember Gallente Orion Faction	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:01:00 - [284] Originally by: Rheya Solaris So if the quest probes fail to find anything, you have to try again for up to about 20 times? Yes, depending on skills and whatnot. (Each site has a signature strength, the higher it is, the more chance each scan has of finding it. Also, training up Astrometric triangulation skill helps in this respect.)
kember Gallente Orion Faction	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:01:00 - [285] Originally by: Rheya Solaris So if the quest probes fail to find anything, you have to try again for up to about 20 times? Yes, depending on skills and whatnot. (Each site has a signature strength, the higher it is, the more chance each scan has of finding it. Also, training up Astrometric triangulation skill helps in this respect.)
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:11:00 - [286] I think CCP needs to make exploration harder with the next patch I've wasted 6 hours of a friday night on a damn radar hit, Quest's can't find a damn thing... What a waste of time... Building the homestead
DamnedSpirit Amarr Semita Umbra	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:52:00 - [287] Great guide, i just started Exploration in Eve(yeah, omg not another)and this guide has helped me no end. I do have one question, do new sites spawn? say if i get nothing in a sytem one day is it possible for a site to have spawned there the next day? Thanks to everyone who posted helpfull info here. - DS
Tanaka Nari	Posted - 2007.03.21 08:42:00 - [288] Little question... I probed around a bit, so far with alright success. However, I found that my results sometimes seem to "switch2 their type, as in, I find a gravimetric signal with the multispec and think "yay, a belt". Then I start probing it down further, and all of a sudden I get a deadspace signature (that's fecking hard to pin down as well). Is that still a gravimetric site, and what's the current intell on what to expect at sites of each type? I was under the impression, deadspace complexes where of LADAR type...?
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.03.21 10:35:00 - [289] Edited by: Ragnor Dayton on 21/03/2007 10:31:58 Damned - they do respawn yes - just keep looking - they seem to be like buses - none for a week then 3 spawn at once Tanaka - there are 3 different strengths - 0.2, 0.1 and 0.05. If you find the third type they are very hard to track - my last one took 7 sets of quests, 2 combs and 3 sifts with a scan time of 227! I was very unlucky though, but this is an example of just how long it can take! ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Abimelech	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:40:00 - [290] Edited by: Abimelech on 22/03/2007 15:40:18 Ok, I have some questions. Before I waste any more probes I need to understand a few things. I have Multi-Spec. probes, Quest, Pursuit, and Comb (all Gravimetric) and a launcher. We're trying to find some hidden roid fields to safely (safer) mine in lower sec space. I currently have Astrometrics lvl III skill. So, I start with the Multi Spec. probe to find a system with anything possibly hidden in it. Right? So, I launch the probe and click "Analyze". The probe has a bar hovering over it that counts down. It takes a LONG time. But, everytime it get's to the end a box appears in the middle of the screen saying "the probe found nothing" or something similar (nothing in the scan results window). I saw in this forum someone saying something about probe/launcher duration. Is the flight-time of my probe ending before it can finish analyzing? People report in here that they can scan 10-20 times before the probe is gone! How?!??! My launcher says Activation/Duration: 600 sec. My probe says Flight-Time: 600 sec. The term Activation/Duration seems a little vague! Does it mean it takes 600 sec. to activate the probe or the duration of the launcher being active is 600 sec!?!?!?? Do I need to train a skill to return results from the probe faster? Do I need to train a skill to extend the flight time of the probe? Do I need to train a skill to extend the Activation/Duration of the launcher? The very limited explanation of the item in the info window is way too vague. The skills Astrometrics, Astrometric Pinpointing, and Astrometric Triangulation say nothing about time. The only one is Signal Acquisition. And that's 10% faster per level. So even at lvl V it's only 50% faster, or half, 300sec. That's only fast enough for two scans assuming it's possible to launch and analyze immediately and do it twice with NO hesitation. Which is impossible.... 10-20 scans!?!?!? HOW!? Also, do I need to have my overview settings set to show the objects I am looking for as well? Thanks to everyone for the information here so far. I look forward to learning how to utilize this aspect of the game!
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:58:00 - [291] Most of it IS in the guide, but... it needs rewriting, so I'll let you off :P Yes, the reason your scans are failing is that your probe is timing out. The probe lasts ten minutes, the launcher takes ten minutes to cycle, BUT the launcher has to wait 15s before it starts (cycle time) so you run out of time before the scan finishes. Ways to reduce your scan time: 1) Signal Acquisition. -50% at level 5, 300s 2) Covert Ops ship (not stealth bomber), same bonus. -50% at level 5, 150s 2a) Astrometrics bonus T1 frigate, -25% at level 5, not going to do the maths. 3) Gravity Capacitor Upgrade rig. -10% T1, -15% T2 IIRC. Another -30% for two T2s, 105s That's the current minimum you can take it to. Nobody will be doing 20 scans with a multispec in one cycle, but as it's 100% accurate that doesn't really matter. People WILL be able to do 20 scans with Quests, which have a flight time of 4000s
Abimelech	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:04:00 - [292] Originally by: Joerd Toastius The probe lasts ten minutes, the launcher takes ten minutes to cycle, BUT the launcher has to wait 15s before it starts (cycle time) so you run out of time before the scan finishes. You must PLEASE forgive me. I am just not understanding this part. What does the launcher cycle time have to do with the probe scanning? Doesn't cycle time of the launcher mean how it takes before you can launch another probe? Like, cycle time of a turret... I would think that once the probe is launched the launcher has nothing to do with it any more. The only thing that matters is how long that probe is going to fly until it pops, and how long it takes for the probe to "analyze" or "scan" the system. But besides that, ok... I need to train signal aquisition so the probe will return a result before it's flight time expires right? So, if I train Signal Aquisition to level I (10% reduction in scan time), how do I calculate the time it will take for the probe to return a result? The probe says nothing about scan time in the info window, only flight time. The launcher only says, Activation time/Duration. These are two completely different things but with one figure; 600sec. And, rate of fire; 15 seconds. So great, I can launch a probe every 15 seconds? What am I missing? So sorry guys...
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.23 01:03:00 - [293] Ok, here's the skinny. As you noticed, there's two different times listed on the launcher. Activation/duration (same thing, no idea why it's listed like that) is the amount of time it takes you to analyze - analysis is done by the launcher. Rate of fire is the length of one launcher cycle. All the bonuses to scan time are applied to the activation/duration on the launcher. If you get Signal Acqusition level 1, this time will change from 600s to 540s (ie, 600 * 0.9). The probe flight times stays the same, but your scan finishes 60s earlier so it doesn't time out. The Rate of Fire does determine how often you can launch probes, yes. However, it has another effect: the probe launches at the start of the cycle, you can't start analyzing until the end of the cycle (when it stops flashing green) - 15s after you launch the probe. This makes it very obvious that a 600s launcher duration won't let you analyze a 600s probe, because the probe will have counted down to 585 by the time you can actually start to analzye, thus bypassing the "if I'm really, really quick will it work?" question :)
Tanaka Nari	Posted - 2007.03.23 10:53:00 - [294] Any intell on when exactly exploration sites respawn? Is it at downtime? Also, do emptied sites despawn immediately, or after the next DT?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.23 10:59:00 - [295] Exploration doesn't seem to be tied to DT - they're more like mission sites than static plexes in that regard, except that they don't "respawn" at DT. As far as I know, "finished" sites despawn as soon as they have no players in them. As to respawning... unknown, but definitely not (just) at DT.
tremswap	Posted - 2007.03.25 17:30:00 - [296] Edited by: tremswap on 25/03/2007 17:30:19 Edited by: tremswap on 25/03/2007 17:29:26 so how many ships am i going to need for this? 1. a cover ops frig , to do the scanning 2. Something bigger, with the right modules for the job( code breaker, analyzer)to kill stuff 3. a mining ship of some kind. this about right? also , is it worth having any of the rigs available on these ships? say scanning speed rigs on the covert. and say analyzer or codebreaker rigs on the killing ship
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:33:00 - [297] Pretty much, yeah, if you want to do everything. I don't mine, so I just have a Covops and an Apoc for running the sites in. The scan time rigs are very very helpful, the other ones... up to you, but I don't use them :)
NeoWhill	Posted - 2007.03.26 01:18:00 - [298] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Most of it IS in the guide, but... it needs rewriting, so I'll let you off :P Yes, the reason your scans are failing is that your probe is timing out. The probe lasts ten minutes, the launcher takes ten minutes to cycle, BUT the launcher has to wait 15s before it starts (cycle time) so you run out of time before the scan finishes. Ways to reduce your scan time: 1) Signal Acquisition. -50% at level 5, 300s 2) Covert Ops ship (not stealth bomber), same bonus. -50% at level 5, 150s 2a) Astrometrics bonus T1 frigate, -25% at level 5, not going to do the maths. 3) Gravity Capacitor Upgrade rig. -10% T1, -15% T2 IIRC. Another -30% for two T2s, 105s That's the current minimum you can take it to. Nobody will be doing 20 scans with a multispec in one cycle, but as it's 100% accurate that doesn't really matter. People WILL be able to do 20 scans with Quests, which have a flight time of 4000s WTB Covert Ops Frigate with 600 Calibration Seriously - you can only have 1x T2 rig - or 2x T1 rigs. Therefore the BEST scantime you can have is 120s, not 105.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.26 09:38:00 - [299] Eh, k :P Wasn't logged in, couldn't be bothered to check the numbers. Man is correct.
Corwin Amberite Gallente Rogue Arrow Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.03.26 10:50:00 - [300] Do you notice some rearangement of the sites lately. Before the patch venal was full with radar sites. Today i scanned like 30 systems and every second has a freaking belt in it. Also found 3-4 plex sigs and 1 magneto but no radar. And do you have info about the plexes. Are they still so hard with so crappy reward?
Senbei Roshi Temporal Heuristic Concepts	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:41:00 - [301] Originally by: Joerd Toastius If someone does find a can that a level 3 skill can't access then I'll rethink that, but for now it seems a fairly solid conclusion. I don't know about cans, but I have personally experienced being told (by in-game popup) that my ability to salvage was insufficient for a True Sansha wreck. (Salvage III) Ignorance is Bliss And the Opposite is True Genius is Madness
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.27 17:55:00 - [302] Oh. Well. Damn. So why are all Guristas, including Dreads and Officers, only needing 3?
Senbei Roshi Temporal Heuristic Concepts	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:21:00 - [303] Edited by: Senbei Roshi on 27/03/2007 20:20:01 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Oh. Well. Damn. So why are all Guristas, including Dreads and Officers, only needing 3? You're not using any salvage tackles by chance are you? It may be based on the success % that will make a difference on whether you can salvage it. a T1 Salvage Tackle would count as 2 levels of salvaging in that case. Ignorance is Bliss And the Opposite is True Genius is Madness
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:25:00 - [304] Nope. Thought of that too, but I've never used one.
Senbei Roshi Temporal Heuristic Concepts	Posted - 2007.03.27 20:36:00 - [305] Hrm... Not sure then... It has been over a month since I've tried... May have been a bug or some such. Ignorance is Bliss And the Opposite is True Genius is Madness
noc sucou	Posted - 2007.03.29 23:26:00 - [306] jored thanx for the info m8. finally i found some useful information. ive been offline for 2 months and i come back to all this new stuff. i looked at quite a few forum posts about probing and basickly they full iof useless crap so cheers :)
Drizden D'Urden Minmatar Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.30 21:42:00 - [307] First thank you everyone for very helpful information; just started exploration little while ago and very informative. I do have some questions concerning spawning, despawning, respawning, that I have not gleaned from the information. System 1 0.4 security: Found Gravimetric, pinpointed, went there 4 days later and mined all the Gneiss there of 10 roids \o/. Went back to the field roughly 2 minutes later to see if I could blow up those "Catherdal Fragments" (which I see now has nothing) and there was nothing there - np cuz we had mined everything. Did a multi-spec probe 4 days later and "Nothing Found." System 2 0.4 security: Found Magnometric, pinpointed, when warped there was a Arc/Sal site (sorry did not get the specific information off system map, did not know how to do that before) - which contained about 6 cruiser, 6 frigates, with a dozen cans laying around. I was in my scanning frigate so I left cuz could not attack. Came back about 6 or 7 days later and its gone!?! Questions: If I enter the deadspace, warp out, does it despawn after I leave as by some indications in this thread? Or did someone find it in those 7 days and finish the pocket? Or did it move on randomly in those 7 days also indicated by this thread? System 3 0.4 security: Found Magnometric, pinpointed, when warped to seemed like a fighting complex because there was an acceleration gate, then beyond the gate was a pocket of couple BCs, 6 or so cruisers, and bunch of frigs. Same thing though 6 or 7 days later we (corp gang) warped to it and its gone!?! Questions: Same as above - did someone do it or did it move? I did another multi-spec and Magnometric came up again, but I can not find the signal now .. not even with Quest probes. Is my luck just bad that day? System 4 0.4 security: Found RADAR, pinpointed three different spots with my Quests probes which happen only after 1 in 4 to 5 scans. Using the Comb probes (3 sets so far) in 2 different locations, not bringing anything up. Sorry, I did not record the signal strength but was getting signal distance of 0.999AU. Questions: Do I just need to keep trying with the comb to happen on it? Should I try a couple Pursuits? Is my luck again just really bad that day? Main question really: What are the "expectations" or rules for deadspace/mining pockets to move, despawn, respawn, or finish when completed? Thank you for any insight that you can provide o7 Drizden Drizden D'Urden member of Polaris Project
The Doct0r Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:09:00 - [308] I do hope they are creating more spawn sites otherwise as the number of people exploring increases, there is less chance of ever finding one that someone isn't already doing!! Still to find a system with more than one site is as well * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Always ready to perform!!!! cough _______________________________________ Always back up comments with hard facts
Bart Roberts	Posted - 2007.04.01 20:15:00 - [309] Hi all. Forgive me if this has already been covered somewhere deep in the depths of this topic ... didn't know what kind of probe to use to find it ... (little explorers' joke there). I was wondering how viable a profession Explorer would be for a relative "noob". I have about 1.5 mil. skill points, about 2 mil. isk to my name, and am flying a Rifter ... have bought Astrometrics but haven't trained it yet, and am also training the appropriate lead-up skills for Covert Ops. Is it possible to start basic exploration at my level, and use my early discoveries to fund a build-up of my skills and my equipment? Or is it necessary to build some capital first by practicing some other profession, then switch over? Thanks, Bart
Alcrista Somez Amarr The Phoenix Rising Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.01 23:49:00 - [310] Anyone found or completed "Sansha Provincial HQ" ? The first deadspace area was called Sansha Minefields. There were 32 BS's in the first room, and couldnt use the second gate without a key. Tank didnt last very long....
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.02 14:38:00 - [311] Originally by: Alcrista Somez Anyone found or completed "Sansha Provincial HQ" ? The first deadspace area was called Sansha Minefields. There were 32 BS's in the first room, and couldnt use the second gate without a key. Tank didnt last very long.... This was in 0.0 I take it? Those are, uh, tricky.
Alcrista Somez Amarr The Phoenix Rising Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.02 22:00:00 - [312] Yeah. It was in 0.0 The first time we tried it the alpha strike took our tank to structure - all 32 BS's agro'd at once. So we warped out. Came back a day later with a better plan and it was gone, so I guess someone else found it and did it. It took me about 5 hours to scan down so Id at least like to know what we missed!
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.04 09:52:00 - [313] I am so sick and tired of finding unknown multiple sites in systems. Yesterday first had a system with unknown+radar sig. Found first site which was a complex/unknown. Tried again now excluding that planet so I would not get the same signature again. Find a new sig and yet another complex. Give up on this system and move to next system. Nice, radar and an unknown again. This time I make sure I get more than one sig before finishing my quests. Start working on the first sig and find it. Another complex. Work on the next sig and guess what? Yes another complex. Maybe I should just finish those sites so I can get a chance to find the radar sites lol. This is getting really frustrating.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:30:00 - [314] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 05/04/2007 17:30:20 Ok, so here goes the draft for v2.0. Feedback please! :) If you want to understand the mechanics of the probing system, you need to read Hoshi's guide on probing which can be found here. For the purposes of this guide I'm just going to cover the practical aspects as they relate to exploration, and skip as much of the theory as possible. Introduction The Revelations expansion (codename Kali) introduces proper exploration to Eve. Over 250 individual exploration sites have been created and added to the game, offering a wide variety of content. Each site is unique, but there are four broad categories they fall into - combat sites, profession sites, mining sites and gas cloud sites. Sites are distributed randomly all over the Eve cluster, in all security statuses and regions. They appear in planetary gravity wells, stick around for a while and then disappear again. As such sites are not permanent enough to be documented, you have to track them down yourself using the exploration tools if you want to make use of them, and it's these tools that will be explained in this guide, along with some notes on how to deal with the sites themselves. Cliff Notes mechanics Exploration is done using scan probes. Changes to probes in Revelations make them all chance-based, and that applies to exploration too. You'll need to get your equipment and skills together, and load up with the right probes. You use a Multispectral Probe to check if there's anything in the system worth looking for and, if there is, launch a Quest probe around each planet. You then analyze them all together, over and over again, until the random number generator spits out the right number and you get a result. Once you get your first result, you can use more accurate probes to zero in on the site, eventually dropping you right on top of it. Then you just pew-pew the bad guys and apply whatever tools are necessary to plunder your site. Some things to note: 1) Exploration is chance-based. You will often need to run a lot of analysis cycles before you find anything 2) Exploration uses a fair number of new skills. It's worth training up and getting prepped first 3) Exploration rewards people who know what they're doing. So read the guide carefully :) The Walkthrough Each section will start with a bullet list of the steps you need to take, and then will explain each step Skills You will NEED: - Astrometrics IV - Signal Acquisition I You will WANT: - Covert Ops - Astrometric Triangulation - Astrometric Pinpointing - Signal Acquisition As high as possible Astrometrics IV is needed to use all the probes properly. You can succeed with level III, in theory, but it'll be very hit and miss (mainly miss). Signal Acqusition I (or some other bonus that has the same effect, see discussion on ships and rigs shortly) is needed to prevent your probes from expiring before you finish analysing them Covert Ops ships give the same bonus as the Signal Acquisition skill, and is therefore by far and away the best ship type for exploration. The bonus increases per level of Covert Ops, so the higher your level, the better. Astrometric Triangulation reduces the scan deviation of your probes, making them more accurate Astrometric Pinpointing increases the strength of your probes, making them more likely to find something in the first place Signal Acquisition reduces the amount of time it takes to analyse a result, and thus the amount of time it takes to find a site
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:30:00 - [315] Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 05/04/2007 17:33:16 Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 05/04/2007 17:30:11 Additionally, you will need the skills to make use of the sites you're looking for. If you're after combat, have a good combat skills, and ideally some friends. If you're after mining, look up the mining guide here. Profession sites require either Archaeology and Salvaging, or Hacking. The higher these skills are, the faster you'll be able to loot the site of valuables. Gas Cloud sites are a special case that will be discussed later. Equipment You will NEED: - Scan Probe Launcher I, with a base analysis time of 600s (10 minutes) - A ship that can fit said Launcher (does not require a launcher hardpoint, but does need to be able to handle the CPU load) - Some probes (see later for exactly which ones you'll want) You will WANT: - A Covert Ops ship - the one with the Astrometrics bonus, not the Stealth Bomber variant - Failing that, a T1 Frigate with the Astrometrics bonus (none for Amarr, sorry) - A Covert Ops Cloaking Device II for your Covert Ops (for safety in low-sec/0.0) - A pair of Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I rigs - Ships and equipment to deal with the sites you find The Scan Probe Launcher I is the launcher you'll use for exploration. It's a lot slower than the Recon Probe Launcher, but it's big enough to actually hold exploration probes, which the Recon variant isn't. The SPL I uses 220tF of CPU, so you'll need a ship that can cope with this Probes will be discussed in the next section Covert Ops ships are excellent for exploration. They have the Astrometrics duration bonus that you also get on the Signal Acquisition skill, which is extremely important for exploration. These bonuses multiply one after the other - if you have Signal Acquisition V and Covert Ops V (and you're flying a Covert Ops ship), you'll get a 0.25x multiplier on your analysis time. Signal Acquisition V gives you a 0.5x multiplier, and then Covert Ops V gives another 0.5x, and 0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25, making you four times faster than the base speed. Three of the four races have a T1 frigate with the same bonus as Covert Ops ships, but at 5% per level rather than 10%. This isn't ideal, but it's much easier to train Frigate V than Covert Ops V. There is no Amarr ship in this role though (due to the lack of a 6th frigate), so if you're Amarr, it's either Covert Ops or crosstrain to another race for this bonus. The cloaking device is optional, but very useful. If you're working in 0.0, it's almost a necessity to keep you safe, but in high-sec you can ignore it if you're not at war with anyone. As you can't warp while analysing, the Prototype or Improved cloaks will do the job ok, and cost a lot less to boot. The Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I rigs do another -10% duration each, for a further 0.8x multiplier on your scan time with two. This takes you down to 0.2x total modifier with max skills, which is not to be sniffed at You will, obviously, need the ships and kit to deal with the sites you find. Combat sites need combat ships, mining sites work great with barges, while profession sites need a ship with the appropriate modules fitted - Analyzer and Salvager for Archaeology/Salvage sites, Codebreaker for Hacking sites. You can fit these on your Covert Ops, but this will usually mean someone else coming along in a combat ship to clear the place out first. Generally I put my profession modules on my combat ship, because I prefer not to risk the Covert Ops unless absolutely necessary Probes You will NEED: - One Multispectral Probe for every system you want to explore - A pile of Quest probes matched to the type(s) of site you're looking for - A few Pursuit probes of the same type(s) - A few Comb probes of the same type(s) - A few Sift probes of the same type(s) You will WANT: - As many probes as you can lay your filthy hands on
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:31:00 - [316] Multispectral Probes are used to do the initial analysis of a system. They'll tell you, with 100% accuracy, what there is to find in the system (if anything) Multispectral Probes can indicate any of five types of signature. UNKNOWN: Combat sites. Can be found with ANY PROBE TYPE. GRAVIMETRIC: Hidden asteroid belts MAGNETOMETRIC: Archaeology/Salvage profession sites RADAR: Hacking profession sites LADAR: Gas Cloud sites To go with these site types, there are four "flavours" of probe - GRAVIMETRIC, MAGNETOMETRIC, RADAR and LADAR. As you can see, each probe flavour is associated with a particular type of exploration site - Gravimetric probes are best for finding hidden asteroid belts, for example. Unknown sites can be found equally well with any flavour of probe - you don't need an "unknown" probe, you can use any type and it will work equally well. This is where you need to start planning what you're after. If you just want to mine, you'll only really need Gravimetric probes; if you want to do profession sites, you'll need equal quantities of Radar and Magnetometric probes; if you want combat sites you won't really care what probe types you use, just buy whatever's cheapest or easiest to find. See the section on "Types of Site" for more info on particular types of site. Each flavour of probe comes in four sizes: Quest, Pursuit, Sift and Comb. You'll find the full set in the market - Gravimetric Quest, Gravimetric Pursuit, Gravimetric Comb, Gravimetric Sift, Radar Quest, Radar Pursuit and so on. QUEST probes have a range of 4AU but are the least accurate. You will need a lot of these PURSUIT probes have a range of 2AU and below-average accuracy. You will only need a few of these COMB probes have a range of 1AU and above-average accuracy. You will need a few of these too. SIFT probes have a range of 0.5AU and are the most accurate. You'll need a reasonable number of these. You will, in addition, need one multispectral probe for every system you want to look in. Using Multispectral Probes The first stage to exploration is using your Multispecs properly. This is fairly easy. - Launch a Multispec probe in a system you want to check out - Select and analyse it - Check out the results Go to a system you want to survey, and load a Multispec probe into your launcher. Find somewhere safe to settle down and launch the probe. Open your Scanner window (Ctrl-F11) and go to the "System Scanner" tab (first one). Wait for your probe launcher to stop flashing - you can't analyse until it's finished. Make sure you're not in warp, and you're not cloaked. Then select "Cosmic Signature" in the "groups" menu - you always want to use "Cosmic Signature" when exploring, as all exploration sites are of this type. Your Multispec probe should be listed in the box below. Click on it, and then hit analyse. This will change the window to a blank black box with a counter in one corner. You may now cloak, but do not warp anywhere. I'd also recommend moving away from the probe - not only can you not cloak within 2000m, but if you sit very close by it's very easy for someone to see the probe, head over and decloak you. Wait for the counter to tick down to 0. Yes, it will take a while, particularly if you've got weak skills. Hopefully you're now beginning to appreciate why I keep saying you want to get as many bonuses which reduce analysis time as you can :) Once the counter finishes, it'll do one of two things. Firstly it might say "nothing found", in which case that system is, at this moment in time, empty of exploration sites. Secondly, it might list one or more of the types of signature - Unknown, Gravimetric and so on - listed above. This means there are one or more sites of each type listed somewhere in the system.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:31:00 - [317] If some of the types of site you're interested in are listed, then you can get on with hunting them down. If not, move on to the next system and keep using Multispec probes until you find the type of site you want Using Quest Probes This is the tricky bit... - Launch Quest probes so that you have all space within 4AU of any planet covered - If you can't get perfect coverage, do the best you can - Select ALL THE PROBES - Analyse - ...and analyse... - ...and analyse, until you get a result Probably the hardest part of exploration is getting your Quest placement right. You have a couple of constraints you'll want or need to meet: 1) Sites spawn between 1AU and 4AU from planets and only planets, so you want to cover as much of this volume as possible 2) You cannot launch a probe within the scan radius of another probe - it just won't let you For the outer planets, it's pretty simple - drop a Quest at the warp-in, and move on. For the inner planets, where there's often three or four within 4AU of each other, rule 2) comes back to bite you in the behind - if you drop a Quest at one, you won't be able to drop it at any of the others within that probe's range. The first thing you'll want to do to figure this stuff out is to open the 3D System Map mode, by pressing F10 and going to System Map. This will let you see the whole system. Next, turn on your Tactical Overlay, which will give you a nice 5AU circle around your current position. Have a good look at the system, and start planning your placement. Sometimes it's easy. Sometimes you'll want to make midwarp bookmarks to maximise your coverage. Sometimes it just can't be done properly with one set of probes, so plan for two separate sets of placements (or go somewhere else). Once you drop a probe, selecting it in the System Scanner will give you a nice little bubble on the map showing its range. Experiment, practice and check out DNightmare's site (link at the end) for some nice pictures. You'll get the hang of it. Once you have your Quests out nicely, select all of them and click Analyse. This will analyse all probes in parallel, taking advantage of increases sensor strengths where they overlap. Keep analysing over and over again until you get a result. Have a book or a DVD or something to keep you occupied. Or just get bored, if that's your thing. Interpreting Results If you think a system's taking too long, then by all means go elsewhere, but the site is there to find, somewhere. If it's hard to find it's generally also very valuable/hard, so it's up to you whether or not to keep trying. You may also need to rework your probe placement - scan strength decreases as you get further from the probe, so if you have one probe covering two planets, consider shifting it to the other planet to give it some more loving. Eventually, if you're persistent enough and your probe placement doesn't suck, you will get a result. Results come as several columns: - Type. This should be "Deadspace Signature", if you're doing it right - Signal Strength. This is a nice big number that tells you the exact probability you had of getting this result - Distance. This is how far the result is from where you are right now - Accuracy. This is the exact distance from the result to the actual site If you don't see all four columns, expand your system scanner window and/or resize them until you do Signal Strength can tell you a lot, if you know what you're looking for. For example, an exceptionally low number probably suggests that you've found the wrong type of site. As you gain more experience you'll get a feel for signal strengths and learn what's high, what's low and what they tend to result in. This is just something you'll need to practice, though :)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:32:00 - [318] Also note that it is possible to find the "wrong sort" of site with a particular probe. If you look at say the Gravimetric Quest probe, you'll see it has a Gravimetric Sensor Strength of 250, and a Sensor Strength of 50 for the other types. This means it's five times more likely to find a Gravimetric site than it is to find another site of the same difficulty, but it is still possible to find one of those other types. As some sites are harder than others, you may find your Gravimetric probes are finding an "easy" Radar site faster than a "hard" Gravimetric site, for example. This is just something you have to get used to; Unknowns are a particular pain in this regard as any probe will find them, so if you're looking for something else and there's an Unknown in system, you'll probably pick it up at some point... Using More Accurate Probes - Warp to the result - Drop the most accurate probe that will still reach the site - Analyse - Repeat until you get a result with an Accuracy of under 500km You can right-click the result in your results window and warp to it. Alternatively, it will be displayed as a coloured circle on the system map, and you can right-click and warp-to from there. Once you're at the result, look at your results window again. The Distance should be around 0, give or take a few thousand metres. The Accuracy should be the same. You'll now want to launch a more accurate probe that will take you even closer. Check the Accuracy again, and then select a probe type that has a range greater than the Accuracy. For example, if your Accuracy is 0.6AU, a Sift probe (range 0.5AU) won't pick it up from where you are, but a Comb probe (range 1.0 AU) will. A Pursuit (range 2AU) will also pick it up, but the Comb has better sensor strength and is thus more accurate. Note that if the accuracy is displayed in kilometres, it means it's less than 0.1 AU. Drop the right probe and analyse again, and keep analysing until you get a new result. When you get this result, do the same thing - warp to it, check the Accuracy, launch the best probe you can, and analyse until you get a new result. Eventually you'll get one within 500km or so, which is generally close enough to get you to the site Checking Out The Site - Warp to the result in a ship which either won't die or which you don't mind losing - Don't leave your Covert Ops ship at a nearby result If you get a result within 500km or so, warping to it will generally land you in the same grid as the site. Sites don't spawn until you enter their grid. Once you land in the grid and the site spawns, the deadspace warp inhibition effect kicks in. This means two things: 1) If you bookmark your current location (say 400km away from the actual site), warp out and warp back in, you'll land right in the middle of the site 2) You can't warp to any point within the Deadspace zone (not sure exactly how big this is) Point 1) means that it's often dangerous to scout sites with a Covert Ops, as there's usually something near the warp-in that will decloak you and get you killed. Point 2) means that if you park you Covert Ops nearby and scout in your pod, you probably won't be able to warp back to it due to the deadspace effect. I always park at least 1AU away, just to be safe. Once you're at the site, remember to bookmark it. Also, if you zoom back out to the System Map, it will flag up a little box telling you the name of the site. For profession sites, this is usually fairly informative - it'll tell you what type of site it is, how hard it is to find (the "Base" level, ranging from 1-4), what faction claim it and so on. For Mining sites, it usually tells you what ore types are present and how big the field is. For Combat sites it'll often just give you a cryptic name.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:33:00 - [319] The names are useful both because they may tell you something about the site, and also because if you have problems with a site, knowing the name will let other people help you out much easier. Types Of Site As mentioned earlier, there are various different types of site. COMBAT: These tend to involve lots of shooting. Currently there's very little reward in the initial sites you find, and the 0.0 ones in particular are REALLY hard. However, each combat site has a chance of escalating, which will give you a time-limited bookmark in your journal to the next site in the "escalation chain". This site will in turn have another chance of escalating you to the next site, and so on. If you reach the "final" site in each chain, you may be rewarded with some faction loot MINING: These generally have roids better than you'd expect in whatever security status (high, low, 0.0) you're in. Some sites are better than others. Often they'll be guarded by Rogue Drones or other pirates, and normal belt rats may spawn too HACKING: These will have a bunch of Hacking structures in. Hacking targets look like cans in your overview, but have models that look like structures. If you try to open one, it will tell you you need proper tools. Target it and activate a Codebreaker module on it and your ship will try to hack it. If it succeeds, you can open the can and loot it. This is chance-based, so it may take several cycles to succeed. Hacking sites drop Datacores, Data Interface BPCs, Decryptors and other invention gubbins ARCH/SAL: Short for "Archaeology/Salvage", these generally contain some Archaeology cans and some Salvage cans. Again, they look like cans on the overview but have other modules, and tell you you need tools to open them. Generally, anything that sounds like a broken ship (eg, Derelic) needs to be salvaged, while anything that sounds like wreckage (eg, Ruins) needs to be Analyzed (archaeology). These sites drop lots of rig parts, the occasional T2 rig BPC and Invention skillbooks GAS CLOUDS: These are used for Booster-related stuff, and will be discussed later. Completing The Site - Do whatever's necessary to finish the site Each site has a "completion" trigger. This may happen when you attack something, or open a can, or mine out a belt, or kill the last NPC, or whatever. Once a site is completed, it will despawn once everyone leaves it; some profession sites complete as soon as you kill an NPC, so you need to finish them off in one go. In Combat sites, the Escalation trigger is tied to the completion trigger, so it will not complete until you've either got an escalation or hit a dead end - it should notify you in either case. If a combat site isn't going away, it's because you haven't completed it yet (or it's bugged, of course) Boosters Boosters are specialist drugs that you can take to improve your performance in combat. There are eight 0.0 COSMOS constellations scattered around the map, and each has a particular Booster associated with it I'm still sussing out the details, but here's roughly what you need to make a Booster Cytocerin of the right kind - Needs to be harvested from Gas Clouds using a Gas Cloud Harvester I (or named version) module; found through exploration/COSMOS missions -- Needs the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill; found through exploration/COSMOS missions and seeded in pirate stations The appropriate reaction - Needs to be recovered from COSMOS exploration sites A Biochemical Reactor POS module - (Probably) needs the Drug Manufacturing skill; found through exploration/COSMOS missions and seeded in pirate stations A Booster BPC - Needs to be recovered from COSMOS exploration sites Either a Drug Lab or an Outpost - (Probably) needs the Drug Manufacturing skill; found through exploration/COSMOS missions and seeded in pirate stations
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:33:00 - [320] Harvest the cytocerin, stick it in a Biochemical reactor along with the necessary reaction, react it, throw the resulting stuff along with the right BPC into either a Drug Lab or an Outpost, build the Booster. More info as I find it. MORE INFO Join the "EXPLORATION" channel ingame This is full of explorers, who will be only to happy to help you out with questions that aren't covered in this guide. Please do read the guide first though - we're not a helpdesk, and we're not going to make the effort to explain everything from scratch because you're too lazy to read it yourself. I realise this comes across as a little harsh, but it is becoming something of a problem, and there's only so many times you can answer "What probe type do I need for 'Unknown'?" before you snap... Check out DNightmare's site in the IGB (in-game browser) > http://www.d-nightmare.de/exploration/ This has a whole bunch of cool stuff, including diagrams, videos and even a database of sites that people have found. It's very useful, I recommend checking it out - The "Trusted Site" thing is needed to make the DB work. If you don't want to trust him, that's fine, just don't visit the site Summary You will NEED: - Astrometrics IV - Signal Acquisition I You will WANT: - Covert Ops - Astrometric Triangulation - Astrometric Pinpointing - Signal Acquisition As high as possible You will NEED: - Scan Probe Launcher I - A ship that can fit said Launcher (does not require a launcher hardpoint, but does need to be able to handle the CPU load) - Some probes (see later for exactly which ones you'll want) You will WANT: - A Covert Ops ship - the one with the Astrometrics bonus, not the Stealth Bomber variant - Failing that, a T1 Frigate with the Astrometrics bonus (none for Amarr, sorry) - A Covert Ops Cloaking Device II for your Covert Ops (for safety in low-sec/0.0) - A pair of Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I rigs - Ships and equipment to deal with the sites you find You will NEED: - One Multispectral Probe for every system you want to explore - A pile of Quest probes matched to the type(s) of site you're looking for - A few Pursuit probes of the same type(s) - A few Comb probes of the same type(s) - A few Sift probes of the same type(s) You will WANT: - As many probes as you can lay your filthy hands on - Launch a Multispec probe in a system you want to check out - Select and analyse it - Check out the results - Launch Quest probes so that you have all space within 4AU of any planet covered - If you can't get perfect coverage, do the best you can - Select ALL THE PROBES - Analyse - ...and analyse... - ...and analyse, until you get a result - Warp to the result - Drop the most accurate probe that will still reach the site - Analyse - Repeat until you get a result with an Accuracy of under 500km - Warp to the result in a ship which either won't die or which you don't mind losing - Don't leave your Covert Ops ship at a nearby result - HAVE FUN!
DRMALIKIA United Technologies	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:40:00 - [321] Doing some fine tunning on the 2.0 version. I can finish it up after work and email it to you. I have it in Microsoft Word, all my changes highlighted, for your review. I'll send you an in game email to acquire your out of game email for file transfer. GOOD STUFF I LIKE IT! The doctor is at your service.
Bart Roberts	Posted - 2007.04.06 06:10:00 - [322] You mentioned Frigate V. Is that also a NEED skill (in order to get the scanning frigate bonus)?
Abimelech	Posted - 2007.04.06 14:48:00 - [323] First of all, thanks to everyone who contributed to this topic. I would never have gotten this far without this post. So, I FINALLY found my first hidden site. In a 0.6 sec system, it took about 4-5 different days (scan sessions) of scanning and about 16 probes to track down a Gravimetric signature. I'm a miner so I was very happy to find this as my first signature. When I finally located it, it turned out to be Deadspace Gate. I thought, ok, maybe you warp into the hidden belt. So I left the system and loaded up my Thorax (Cruiser) with miners and drones ready to mine. I warped in, and was surprised to find about 14 NPC drones on the overview. I didn't have much time to look around since I was defenseless, so I warped out and loaded up with blasters and fighter drones. I warped back in, and was targeted within seconds by Alvi's (Baracuda's, Decimator's, Render's, etc.). I launched my drones and started firing away on the closest target. Unfortunately, my shields and armor where down to nothing in seconds and they popped my ship before I killed a single rat. WTF!?!? So, while in my pod I took the time to fly around and check out the area. Here's what was there; - Space Shuttle Wreckage - Ghost Ship - Ruined Stargate - Drone Base - Depleated Battery - 14 Alvi's - 4 Workers - 4 Builders - 4 Leaking Casks - 1 Beacon (Info says, "With it's blinking red light, this may be a point of interest or perhaps a marker to somewhere greater" or something like that) So, what the heck is this place? Is this place an Arch/Salv site? I thought Gravimetric sites were supposed to be Roid Fields. Also, I grabbed a buddy with his Battlecruiser and the gate won't let him in - says his ship is too big. Only Cruisers and below. It's going to take one hell of a gang of Cruisers to take these rats down. Thanks for you help in advance!
Xsavior	Posted - 2007.04.06 15:06:00 - [324] Hey, we ran into a nice site last night and where able to hack most containers, but a part of the site was a container with some forcefield shield (just like a shield at a POS) around it, we where not able close down the force field to hack the container that was inside. Anyone that has an idea on how to shut down the shield?
Universal Caldari Dark Horizons Red Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.06 21:26:00 - [325] Awesome guide, very clear and descriptive. I have been trying this myself tonight and although I have traced signals of a site I have yet to find one with Quest probes .... and it has been hours lol. Mind you im training astrometics to 3 right now which is probably the root of the problem
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.04.07 09:35:00 - [326] Abim - in 0.5 and above what will work best is an assault frigate. I have cleared Haunted Yard in a Retribution using pulse lasers (for the tracking) and a 400mm plate (got to half armor so needed it). It's tough solo, and if you don't have decent resists.............. Make sure you have both long and short range ammo though, as not all the drones come to close range. ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Rimac	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:35:00 - [327] Perhaps a stupid question, but I've just found some cans in an exploration complex. There is nothing in them. I'm wondering if perhaps I'm supposed to hack them, or is the fact that I could open them enough explanation in of itself? Or in other words, will it tell me if it needs hacking? Thanks.
Marco P Really Nice And Laidback Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.08 08:50:00 - [328] Rimac If you are able to open them and they just show as empty then they dont need hacking. Cans that must be hacked flash open momentarily before you get a message telling you that it needs hacking (cant remember the wording.
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:11:00 - [329] I just found a Haunted Yard complex in 0.6 space. Four drone frigates and one strain drone frigate spawned, I killed them, but the red cans 'Leaking Cask' were empty. Is this complex still broken or was I meant to blow something up? :( __________________________________________________ "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:05:00 - [330] Well done Joerd. You asked for it, here is my take on the new one. :) Your statements are in bold here. My suggetions are after each one. Sorry if some have already been pointed out, too lazy to read all the suggestions after your post. Astrometric Triangulation reduces the scan deviation of your probes, making them more accurate Astrometric Pinpointing increases the strength of your probes, making them more likely to find something in the first place You have these flipped. - Scan Probe Launcher I, with a base analysis time of 600s (10 minutes) Later you use SPL 1, might be a good idea to add "(SPL 1)" after the name here so it doesn't confuse people. Three of the four races have a T1 frigate with the same bonus as Covert Ops ships, but at 5% per level rather than 10%. This isn't ideal, but it's much easier to train Frigate V than Covert Ops V. There is no Amarr ship in this role though (due to the lack of a 6th frigate), so if you're Amarr, it's either Covert Ops or crosstrain to another race for this bonus. You may want to add the fact that to better the scan time of the T1 frig with a cov ops ship you need cov ops skill at 3. - One Multispectral Probe for every system you want to explore And extras for sanity checks between sets of quest probes. Multispectral Probes are used to do the initial analysis of a system. They'll tell you, with 100% accuracy, what there is to find in the system (if anything) May want to rephrase this to indicate they are qualitative (just show the sigs that are in the system) not quantitative (do not show how many of each are in the system). Using Multispectral Probes You may want to include that multi's will cover the entire system no matter where you place them. If you think a system's taking too long, then by all means go elsewhere, but the site is there to find, somewhere. If it's hard to find it's generally also very valuable/hard, so it's up to you whether or not to keep trying. Difficulty in finding a site does not equate to value from loot in the case of magnetometric and radar sites. Gravimetric sites do have better amounts/types of ore in them if they are harder to find. Signal Strength can tell you a lot, if you know what you're looking for. For example, an exceptionally low number probably suggests that you've found the wrong type of site. This would only be true if you were not looking for a site like a mag/radar/grav... all of these sites can have "exceptionally low" signal strengths in the result, they can also have rather high ones too. Also, it would be nice if you include the fact that the sig str you see in the result is not the actual signal strength of the site itself. Types Of Site May want to include the ore in mining sites does not respawn at downtime. Cans in arc/sal and hack sites can be info'd to see what mod you need to use on them. Can find the journal entry for escalations in the expeditions tab. Warping out of an expedition step without finishing it will end the expedition.
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:05:00 - [331] Well done Joerd. You asked for it, here is my take on the new one. :) Your statements are in bold here. My suggetions are after each one. Sorry if some have already been pointed out, too lazy to read all the suggestions after your post. Astrometric Triangulation reduces the scan deviation of your probes, making them more accurate Astrometric Pinpointing increases the strength of your probes, making them more likely to find something in the first place You have these flipped. - Scan Probe Launcher I, with a base analysis time of 600s (10 minutes) Later you use SPL 1, might be a good idea to add "(SPL 1)" after the name here so it doesn't confuse people. Three of the four races have a T1 frigate with the same bonus as Covert Ops ships, but at 5% per level rather than 10%. This isn't ideal, but it's much easier to train Frigate V than Covert Ops V. There is no Amarr ship in this role though (due to the lack of a 6th frigate), so if you're Amarr, it's either Covert Ops or crosstrain to another race for this bonus. You may want to add the fact that to better the scan time of the T1 frig with a cov ops ship you need cov ops skill at 3. - One Multispectral Probe for every system you want to explore And extras for sanity checks between sets of quest probes. Multispectral Probes are used to do the initial analysis of a system. They'll tell you, with 100% accuracy, what there is to find in the system (if anything) May want to rephrase this to indicate they are qualitative (just show the sigs that are in the system) not quantitative (do not show how many of each are in the system). Using Multispectral Probes You may want to include that multi's will cover the entire system no matter where you place them. If you think a system's taking too long, then by all means go elsewhere, but the site is there to find, somewhere. If it's hard to find it's generally also very valuable/hard, so it's up to you whether or not to keep trying. Difficulty in finding a site does not equate to value from loot in the case of magnetometric and radar sites. Gravimetric sites do have better amounts/types of ore in them if they are harder to find. Signal Strength can tell you a lot, if you know what you're looking for. For example, an exceptionally low number probably suggests that you've found the wrong type of site. This would only be true if you were not looking for a site like a mag/radar/grav... all of these sites can have "exceptionally low" signal strengths in the result, they can also have rather high ones too. Also, it would be nice if you include the fact that the sig str you see in the result is not the actual signal strength of the site itself. Types Of Site May want to include the ore in mining sites does not respawn at downtime. Cans in arc/sal and hack sites can be info'd to see what mod you need to use on them. Can find the journal entry for escalations in the expeditions tab. Warping out of an expedition step without finishing it will end the expedition.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.09 12:26:00 - [332] Cheers Alystra :D Will integrate all of that when I sort out the final version :)
Drizden D'Urden Minmatar Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:52:00 - [333] So just to confirm, signatures are located between 1 AU and 4 AU of a planet only? There will not be signatures out in space between planets? Thanks! Awesome guide, keep up the good work :) Drizden D'Urden member of Polaris Project
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.04.11 16:32:00 - [334] All signs point to "yes"
Sir Scorpion Caldari Black Banners	Posted - 2007.04.13 05:26:00 - [335] any got a grav 0.05 yet? i got in 0.0 and have been lookin for that dor ever prolly need better support skills, btw how do u know if the signal is gravmatci or radar?
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.14 16:49:00 - [336] i have read and digested :) just a quick couple of questions Skills btw (atm) astrometrics lvl4 astro pinpointing lvl2 astro triangulation lvl2 covert ops lvl3 signal aquisition lvl2 (lvl3 in 20 hrs) 2 grav rigs fitted i have done the b/m thing so the middle planets are covered 2 planets on outer rings so covered we got a grav sig my corp mate got a result under 400k warped to that point did a sift probe scan and it came up neg no matter how many times he tried question is this usual ???? also i had a hit in a system last nite but could do nothing about it so this morning went back out did the multi scan and got nothing found is this also usual ???? cheers in advance Johny
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.14 16:55:00 - [337] also is there any way os showing what your coverage of a system is cheers Johny
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.14 17:01:00 - [338] Sorry to be a pain but if you get say a grav sig is it best to just use the cosmic sig in probe options or use as many as you can ( i.e 4 for me ) cheers Johny
Suittam Gallente Enigma Technologies	Posted - 2007.04.14 20:32:00 - [339] Edited by: Suittam on 14/04/2007 20:30:11 Originally by: "johnygoodboytyler" we got a grav sig my corp mate got a result under 400k warped to that point did a sift probe scan and it came up neg no matter how many times he tried question is this usual ???? I have found the Gravimetric sites to be the hardest of all to find tbh. Check the signal strength of the DS signature. There is a post about it somewhere, i'll try and find it.General rule seems to be the harder the Grav Signal (asteroid belt) is to locate, the better it is. Originally by: "johnygoodboytyler" also i had a hit in a system last nite but could do nothing about it so this morning went back out did the multi scan and got nothing found is this also usual ???? This is normal, they move about at will, or if somone else finds it. They can dissapear if you warp out of the DS signature, even for a few seconds. Originally by: "johnygoodboytyler" also is there any way os showing what your coverage of a system is Open the System map, and ctrl click all the probes, they will show coverage at each location you dropped them at Originally by: "johnygoodboytyler" Sorry to be a pain but if you get say a grav sig is it best to just use the cosmic sig in probe options or use as many as you can ( i.e 4 for me ) They are all Cosmic Signatures, so yes, you only need to select that. Hope this helps. -S-
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.14 21:45:00 - [340] thx for that helped a lot got a mag sig tonite found site was able to open 2 cans 1 with 7 charred mico circuits in 1 with nowt other needed salvage (i have lvl4) so i am assuming lvl5 traing now 12 days eeeeeeeeee*********kk got hacking lvl4 and archaeology lvl3 why dont these cans say what lvl skil u need to open them
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.04.15 10:06:00 - [341] To my knowledge all exploration site cans only require the relavent level 3 skill to open at most. Are you sure you were using the right module? ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:48:00 - [342] i was using analyzier it just said to open this need salvaging skill cheers JGBT
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.15 17:04:00 - [343] i have tryed to do the coverage thing but system map shows nothing do i need to change defaults in map browser ? cheers JGBT
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.15 17:33:00 - [344] right heres a goodie have got grav sig in system planets are spread thus 1-6 with in 3.6 planet 5 and planet vi being furthest apart got 2 planets n outer rings did a bookmark to planet v so planet 6 was at 4.0 au giving me coverage of planets 1-6 plus 2 au outside each of them but after 10 scans still nothing is this normal ?????
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:41:00 - [345] i`m here again sorry right i have scanned this system 15 times for a grav sig ( no luck) looking at the coverage i have i should have got a hit by now scan time is 270 secs btw anyone got any ideas as i am pulling me hair out on this 1 cheers JGBT
Francois Feldspar	Posted - 2007.04.15 20:50:00 - [346] So I have four signatures in one system I'm looking at, including an Unknown and a Gravimetric. I'm looking for hidden belts. I've found one deepspace complex, the first room of which just has a bunch of 500 Veldspar roids. Is this likely the hidden belt, or are hidden belts not inside deadspace complexes?
Elena Lanfear Crafty Logistics	Posted - 2007.04.15 21:38:00 - [347] I have found around 50 belts so far and each wasnt inside an Acceleration Gate. I would guess you were lucky with one of your "Unknown" Sigs and got a Plex with roids to mine inside.
Jedateech	Posted - 2007.04.18 02:33:00 - [348] Edited by: Jedateech on 18/04/2007 02:30:40 Originally by: Joerd Toastius Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way. Also, if you do decide to park your ship and go in with a pod, make sure not to leave your ship too close - once the deadspace pocket spawns, the usual deadspace rules apply and if your ship is too close you won't be able to warp to it until the site expires. wish id read this earlier. now im boating it 1500km in the direction of my heron :/
Glaive	Posted - 2007.04.20 10:51:00 - [349] null Originally by: johnygoodboytyler i`m here again sorry right i have scanned this system 15 times for a grav sig ( no luck) looking at the coverage i have i should have got a hit by now scan time is 270 secs btw anyone got any ideas as i am pulling me hair out on this 1 cheers JGBT Guess it's a bit late replying to this now, but hey. Gravs can be the hardest to find - if you are confident there are no gaps in your coverage then you just have to keep scanning. Took me over 6.5 hours to get a hit with my quests the other day for a grav belt...
Glaive	Posted - 2007.04.20 10:55:00 - [350] Originally by: Francois Feldspar So I have four signatures in one system I'm looking at, including an Unknown and a Gravimetric. I'm looking for hidden belts. I've found one deepspace complex, the first room of which just has a bunch of 500 Veldspar roids. Is this likely the hidden belt, or are hidden belts not inside deadspace complexes? Hidden belts aren't in complexes - you found the unknown. Just check your system map, it will tell you the name of the site
Vexom Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.21 23:35:00 - [351] starts training astrometrics Great guide :)
Ares Beck Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.23 02:44:00 - [352] The guide is greatly appreciated. Clear and concise. Thank you!
Ryo Jang Central Defiance	Posted - 2007.04.23 22:29:00 - [353] just did my first hacking complex :D among other things, i aquired a Occult Data Tuner Interface 2-run bpc. so stoked!
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.25 17:02:00 - [354] Hi all been a while since i been here but have improved skills no end found a unknow last nite no rats in room 1 a few in next but the mining was jaspet, hemorphite, omber plagio and quite a bit of it so check the roids in a plex and that was a 0.7 system cheers jgbt
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.25 17:07:00 - [355] right bloody radar i have had 4 of these now in diffrent systems have set me pobs for coverage use probe, scrap, ship, and cosmic and all i get is bloody po`s or stupid miners what the hell is going on and if i just us cosmic i get nothing and that after using 3 lots of probes
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.04.26 12:51:00 - [356] Originally by: johnygoodboytyler right bloody radar i have had 4 of these now in diffrent systems have set me pobs for coverage use probe, scrap, ship, and cosmic and all i get is bloody po`s or stupid miners what the hell is going on and if i just us cosmic i get nothing and that after using 3 lots of probes I know the feeling. Some of these sites have a really small signal strength, the last couple of Base 4's I have found have had signal strength with Quest of 0.025. These can easily take up to 5 sets of quests with my sub 4 minute scan time to find. Don't give up, you have just been unlucky. And make sure you have plenty of pursuits/combs/sifts handy for when you do get the hit! ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.26 15:04:00 - [357] Hello everyone. I'm just checking in. I'm training up and looking forward to getting into the exploration features of the game. I'll be done with Frigate 5 in a few days and then I'll start on other required skills. I bookmarked the Exploration channel and D'Nightmares guides and sites and stuff. I've still got some gear to collect and skills to get to level 5 (Science, etc..). Then I'll get out there and give a try. Cya all soon.
johnygoodboytyler	Posted - 2007.04.26 15:19:00 - [358] Hiya Jonak welcome to the wierd and woderful world of exploration convo me in game if you need a hand ( if i can help i will ) cheers JGBT
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.26 15:41:00 - [359] Thanks.
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.04.28 00:55:00 - [360] When i have emptied a system of sites, do they or any other sites respawn in the system ?
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:47:00 - [361] I was wondering about that too. I'm sure they have too or everything would be taken by someone else.
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.04.28 12:16:00 - [362] yep thats what i was thinking but i have cleared 5 systems in 0.0 and theres nothing there since for over a week now.
Elseer Radak Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.04.28 19:30:00 - [363] Hi All, So some time ago, the new probing system came out. I was busy with other skills and probing was very expensive. So I waited a bit until I achieved my other goals. So the time has come to give a try to this whole scanning thing. So, using my hauling alt who just finished up learning deep space transports, I've been training for probing for the past two weeks. As a new person learning this "trade" (and unlike Salvaging this is a trade like mining or mission running!) I decided to give my feedback on the joys and sorrows of my first experience with scanning. This may be the wrong place for this feedback (I could not find a feedback section on scan probing itself). So I set a plan in motion in evemon and based off the suggestions of my corp. mates: I've obtained: Survey 4 Astronomic 4 Astronomic Pinpointing 3 Astronomic triangulation 3 Signal Acquisition 3 Given the hazards of scanning in low/null sec I also trained to put a cloaking device on my imicus. Yeah, I'll continue onto CovOps since both Hacking and archeology are so intertwined with those skill sets. So Yesterday with my helpful corp. mates and the ever handy guides from Joerd Toastius (This Guide) and Hoshi on hand I set out to have my first experience with Exploration. So here is how it went down. Summery of How I feel: 1) it's fun 2) It's unnecessarily tedious and misleading 3) a few tweaks could maintain game balance AND actually make some aspects more fun and less tedious! Summery of events: 1) I only had grav's and multi spec's on hand 2) I misunderstood how blind spots worked and wasted allot of time 3) Since I was using the wrong probe type I kept getting closer to a gate, but I could see the gate before I ever got a close hit. 4) AFAIK it seems the site will "Spawn" where you are closer than 250km to it. 5) No I did not go inside, an imicus vs "the Sansha Minefields" is like just silly. Places for improvement: 1) When scanning unknown class signatures, a multi spectral probe when SHOULD indicate which type of probe to use for best signal strength. Since it's multi-spectral one assumes it takes a large number of readings across different EM bands. It would not diminish the amount of skill needed to accomplish scanning to let on which probe sequence to use here. One still needs to head out and scan. 2) When using the wrong kind of probe and finding hit, you should get a warning to switch probe types. The warning need not tell you which probe to use only that the signal is quite weak and one should instead use another probe type. NArrative follows. -- Reality: A consentual experiance
Elseer Radak Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.04.28 19:35:00 - [364] Originally by: Elseer Radak ... narrative Follows ... Narrative: Anyhow, upon advice from more skilled Corpmates, I headed out into null-sec light where some team mates had found an "unknown" class signature last week. They did not bother with it (for obvious reasons) but I'm an eager beaver type of care bear so Off I went on what appeared to be another grand EVE adventure. I knew it would be vexing, annoying but all rather enlightening. Eve's a game mm'kay? First, I loaded up with 30 Multispectral, 20 of each Quest, Pursuit, Comb and Sift (all gravinometric type.). I loaded my launcher with Quest probes. So I headed over to our in system pos to get my bearings and switch my wcs out for some istabs. Then I launched a multi spectral probe and set it to analyzing. While I waited (~900 odd seconds) I prepared my attack plan. Next I hit F10 and switched over to the Solar System Map. I zoomed out and Arranged a 3/4 looking "down" past the ecliptic (the main "disk" of the solar system" so the alignments of the planets were highlighted. I noticed that three planets and sun were in close alignment I decided that a probe on the last and first planet would make a nice coverage area. Once I got my multispect results (one unknown signature) I flew to each planet and dropped a quest probe. Then I flew back to the pos (if there is no POS, make a safe spot and warp there instead. Once you hit analyze, activate the cloak. Also activate the cloak while you fiddle with the map!). So, I went back to the POS, opened up the solar system map and checked my coverage. It looked good. I hit analyze for an hour until he probes expired and found nothing. I *****ed in corp. chat and learned that I had not understood about blind spots. So, Knowing that I had a blind spot I scanned the inner planets using a probe at the sun and the third planet. No hits in 1/2 hour so I destroyed those probes and placed ones on the second and fourth planet. 2 scans later I had a hit!!! Not much of a hit, signal strength of 0.05004 and 1.29 au deviation. I switched to a pursuit probe and headed out to the location. I launched the probe, made a bm and headed back to the pos (one could cloak at this point as well). At this point, my corp. mates reminded this was a fools errand. Everyone knows that null sec exploration sites are very risky with almost no known rewards ever given out. Since this was an exercise on how to do it and not intending to accomplish anything, I kept on. Two scans later, I had another HIT! Signal strength .508 and 267km. OOH so close and no the gate was not visible at this point. I changed to Sift probes and headed out. Dropped my probe and cloaked in place. Another HIT!!. Signal strength 0.6703 and 225km (yes that's only 40km closer). I jumped there and laid another probe. The moment I hit "analyze" and NOT before, I got another hit. Signal strength .089 and 135km. I called it off as the gate was now visible, I BM the gate and went back to the pos. With 1 minute to DT to spare, I had completed the scanning portion of my first "job". So 2 1/2 hours into it I got a useless signature. Not bad for my first try. I know not to both with Unknown sites in null sec. I felt happy but frustrated. Closing I've provided this account to help new folks understand how all this advice fits together and how it all works in practice. Notice that I did not even begin using the skills for several weeks -- IMHO, you cannot really find anything without wasting allot of time and money with a lower skill set. HTH Elseer Radak Just another itinerant miner and mad drone overload wannabee with a hauling alt. -- Reality: A consentual experiance
Deltan Lilthanzarus	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:21:00 - [365] Hi, thanks Joerd. Awesome thread. Helped me into a new career. One quick question, is the yield increased from profession sites using rigs, or is hacking, archaeology 5 all that is needed to get the best return? (considering 3 or 4 different exploration vessels set up specifically)
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:12:00 - [366] Your skill level/rigs have no effect on yield, they only affect how easy it is to open. The content is the same whatever your skills.
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:34:00 - [367] Originally by: max bygraves When i have emptied a system of sites, do they or any other sites respawn in the system ? anyone ?
Lorune Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 17:57:00 - [368] Cheers for the guide mate, found myself a new thing to do, its at least less boring then mining ^^
BigDave F.S.O.	Posted - 2007.05.03 21:53:00 - [369] Thanks Joerd, Hoshi, DNightmare, Daron, and others... you are all heroes in my book for putting this together. It helps fill in the missing pieces ----- Dang, signatures keep getting smaller and smaller, unless you count the bits where ISD colors outside the lines...
rackhard	Posted - 2007.05.04 06:16:00 - [370] Got a question do the explorations sites move ?? or can one BM the site and not have to search for it again thanks RackHard
Ertai Vodalion Gallente LifeLine Solutions	Posted - 2007.05.04 10:30:00 - [371] I¦ve got a question I didn¦t find an answer to yet: I remember reading somewhere, that backup arrays boost the sensor strength of their respective sensor type for scanning exploration sites (Radar, Ladar, Magnetometric, Gravimetric). Can anyone confirm or deny this ? or was I just dreaming of a better universe ?
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.04 16:34:00 - [372] max bygraves - sites respawn randomly all round the universe, based on when a site is completed / despawns another appears. This can be in any system, seemingly at any time, so completing the site in that system will cause a site in another system to appear. Respawns in a system are therefore dependant on other people completing sites so you get another one back. I have had a site spawn while scanning for a different type and only the original type showing on the Multi. rackhard - see above plus you can bookmark and return, as long as you haven't triggered the despawn (hacked/salvaged a can/a specific can, mined out the belt, etc.) Note that you cannot farm a site to my knowledge - roids do not grow/comeback at dt's, cans don't refill, ships respawn, etc. on the "a specific can" I belive certain cans are the trigger, rather than "a can". On at least 2 occassions now I have found hacking sites where 4 cans (the easy ones) have been opened (no guards as well) while the 2 hard cans haven't been (they were the only ones with anything in). 1 had 250 million isk of data interface parts in it too ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.05.05 04:27:00 - [373] Thanks ragnor
Ryo Jang Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.05 10:24:00 - [374] just completed a hacking site in venal. this is what i saw on warp in: Linkage at most 5 bs, 10bc/c, a HAC or 2, random frigs. lots of sentry guns (heavy missiles) doing lots of damage. as for loot, we got about 350 units of various interface materials, and 12 quantum physics datacores.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:04:00 - [375] Originally by: Ertai Vodalion I¦ve got a question I didn¦t find an answer to yet: I remember reading somewhere, that backup arrays boost the sensor strength of their respective sensor type for scanning exploration sites (Radar, Ladar, Magnetometric, Gravimetric). Can anyone confirm or deny this ? or was I just dreaming of a better universe ? Backup arrays will make you harder to find if someone tries to probe for you. They have nothing to do with exploration. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:15:00 - [376] Hello again Hoshi, I wanted to congradulate you on the honor of writing for EON magazine, you and DNightmare did a great job. I would like to have one thing clarified though. Was the article fact checked by CCP? Thanks much for all your hard work. P.S. We miss you in the Exploration channel (but I fully understand why you are not there much... Kicks Phyrr)
Des Jardin	Posted - 2007.05.09 19:30:00 - [377] I was recently attempting to open a can at Magnetometic site when my scan failed and I triggered a booby trap. I didn't notice that anything significant occured (although I can't be sure that I didn't take any damage). Has this happened to others?
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.05.09 20:03:00 - [378] Originally by: Des Jardin Has this happened to others? Yes it can happen on a failed atempt.. check your log for damage taken. In high sec it is nothing, but I am told can be quite painful in 0.0.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:44:00 - [379] Originally by: Alystra Swift Hello again Hoshi, I wanted to congradulate you on the honor of writing for EON magazine, you and DNightmare did a great job. I would like to have one thing clarified though. Was the article fact checked by CCP? Thanks much for all your hard work. P.S. We miss you in the Exploration channel (but I fully understand why you are not there much... Kicks Phyrr) As far as I know the article I wrote was not fact checked by CCP. I can't say for any other article. Btw I did not write the exploration article only the ship scanning one. Was Joerd Toastius and DNightmare that wrote the exploration article. I have not been in the exploration channel until recently because I have done no exploration until recently. But I have been there for a week now with my probing alt Taikyo Sekai. Btw my first week of exploration as been VERY nice. Made around 2b so far, got among other things 2x 4 run Esoteric Ship Interface BPC :) ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Alystra Swift	Posted - 2007.05.10 02:40:00 - [380] Originally by: Hoshi As far as I know the article I wrote was not fact checked by CCP. I can't say for any other article. Btw I did not write the exploration article only the ship scanning one. Was Joerd Toastius and DNightmare that wrote the exploration article. I have not been in the exploration channel until recently because I have done no exploration until recently. But I have been there for a week now with my probing alt Taikyo Sekai. Btw my first week of exploration as been VERY nice. Made around 2b so far, got among other things 2x 4 run Esoteric Ship Interface BPC :) OH boy... brain was not engaged this morning it seems... that was suppose to be for Joerd. :) Good to know you are Taikyo, anyway. Hopefully I haven't been too mean to you. :)
Ragnor Dayton Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.11 16:04:00 - [381] Originally by: Alystra Swift Originally by: Des Jardin Has this happened to others? Yes it can happen on a failed atempt.. check your log for damage taken. In high sec it is nothing, but I am told can be quite painful in 0.0. Most I have ever taken from this is 400 damage in 0.0 - which can hurt if your opening stuff up in a covert ops, but isn't noticable on a combat ship ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Divideby0 Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:15:00 - [382] Great thread! Made for an excellent day of reading on company time I started into Exp. a few weeks ago and gave up as none of the dozen or so systems came up with anything in the multispec. I am anxious to dive back into it. I'll be hanging out in exploration channel as well. Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves low-sec on his own...or the chump who attacks an unarmed ship?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.05.12 15:47:00 - [383] Apologies for the delay, but v2.0 is now finally available here This will probably be the last major update for a while
Mindless Selfindulgence	Posted - 2007.08.20 01:16:00 - [384] on the topic of finding hidden belts that are empty, i've found a few in low-sec systems and mined them. each time trying something different to see if they respawn or not. of which they have not, but the empty space along with the celestial objects have remained for up to 3 days later in one of my cases. granted, i didn't waste more probes to see if it would show up again, but i suspect it would. this has proven true to me in using the on-board scanner in a few high-sec sites. just as a note, one of the high-sec sites (0.5)did have a dominion bc rat spawn.
Jeruo Voltaire	Posted - 2007.08.22 00:04:00 - [385] Hello everyone \o I just finished the requisite skills for probing this week; right now I am at 3/2 respectively with the skills(hacking/archo and the scanning skills. so i know I am not fully optimized with everything. My biggest complaint isn't about the long time needed to scan down a site; but with playing the "bookmark" game to get the right coverage. I mean did CCP have to make it so obtuse? Why couldn't they allow you to place bookmark where you want? I mean even just allow you to plot a direct line from one spot to another and then pick where you want to stop to place the bookmark. I spend a good half hour trying to place bookmarks so I could get coverage. I know with practice I can get better but it seems so unnecessary to go thru that just to get a good spot. Also maybe I don't have something set right but everytime I initiate warp while in map view it always zooms in close to my area. This is curious cause when I saw the video posted by Deadspace it doesn't seem to happen to him. The map stays at the zoom he puts it in when he initiates warp. This is annoying cause everytime i initiate warp I have to quickly zoom back out to where I had it and then hit the "add bookmark" button.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.09.03 10:44:00 - [386] Originally by: Jeruo Voltaire Hello everyone \o I just finished the requisite skills for probing this week; right now I am at 3/2 respectively with the skills(hacking/archo and the scanning skills. so i know I am not fully optimized with everything. My biggest complaint isn't about the long time needed to scan down a site; but with playing the "bookmark" game to get the right coverage. I mean did CCP have to make it so obtuse? Why couldn't they allow you to place bookmark where you want? I mean even just allow you to plot a direct line from one spot to another and then pick where you want to stop to place the bookmark. I spend a good half hour trying to place bookmarks so I could get coverage. I know with practice I can get better but it seems so unnecessary to go thru that just to get a good spot. Also maybe I don't have something set right but everytime I initiate warp while in map view it always zooms in close to my area. This is curious cause when I saw the video posted by Deadspace it doesn't seem to happen to him. The map stays at the zoom he puts it in when he initiates warp. This is annoying cause everytime i initiate warp I have to quickly zoom back out to where I had it and then hit the "add bookmark" button. Hmm ... cap management and solar system map are your friends I guess. On the old scanner interface, I used to hit warp and then watch my location and place a bm while in warp, then warp back. It IS hard to do in a frig, as they warp realy fast but doable. You can deplete you cap with an MWD or similar to warp short distances. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Francois deBoer	Posted - 2007.10.03 18:48:00 - [387] Deckard, at the top of this thread where you have put the following statement - "Glue removed, please see new sticky! - Deckard" could you add a link to the new sticky, please? Many thanks.
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.10.03 20:46:00 - [388] New sticky - new way of making important things visible.
TARDI5	Posted - 2007.11.15 14:13:00 - [389] Originally by: Francois deBoer Deckard, at the top of this thread where you have put the following statement - "Glue removed, please see new sticky! - Deckard" could you add a link to the new sticky, please? Many thanks. Deckard, Please post a link - I cannot find a new guide to exploration
Rada Ionesco Caldari Capital Development and Security Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:15:00 - [390] So I have read DNIghtmares site, the associated forum threads and even seen some examples of over lapping probes. What I don't get is if the probes signals have a minimum over lap, and when is the range band where the scanner tells you that you can't launch because you are in the scan area of another probe? Is the deviation what I am looking for here? Does the deviation extend outwards from the max range of the probe? I am kind of lost. Thanks in advance.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:56:00 - [391] Originally by: Rada Ionesco So I have read DNIghtmares site, the associated forum threads and even seen some examples of over lapping probes. What I don't get is if the probes signals have a minimum over lap, and when is the range band where the scanner tells you that you can't launch because you are in the scan area of another probe? Is the deviation what I am looking for here? Does the deviation extend outwards from the max range of the probe? I am kind of lost. Thanks in advance. Probe signals CAN overlap, however you cannot launch a new probe in another probes range. Open map, go to solar system map. Open scanner, launch probe, selecet in scanner. it will give you a nice blue sphere of the probes range. You are not able to launch another probe inside that blue sphere. Be sure to destroy the multispec you have in the system before launching another probes. It has 999AU range and thus disables any possibility to launch other probes. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Happy Endings	Posted - 2008.01.09 03:54:00 - [392] Just recently I started experimenting with this. Was hoping someone could tell me if IÆm doing something wrong. I trained the following so far: Astrometrics 4 Astrometric Pinpointing 2 Astrometric Triangulation 2 Per the guide I drop a Multispectral Frequency Probe to see if anything is in the system. Here lies the problem. So I click system scanner, select four things to scan for. Then toss out the multispec probe. I click on the new probe in my scanner window and then click analyze (while four things to look for is already selected). No matter what the probe blows up within a couple seconds before receiving the results (598 seconds normally). IÆve trained Astrometric Pinpointing to 2, for the 10% per level reduce scan time, however no matter what, when I hit analyze it shows a 600Secound count down. As always it blows up before results are in. /boogle
velmistr Ecco Caldari InNova Tech Inc Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.09 11:40:00 - [393] Originally by: Happy Endings Edited by: Happy Endings on 09/01/2008 03:57:55 ... Read guide more carefully. Neither of these skills (Astrometrics,Astrometric Pinpointing, Astrometric Triangulation) have to do with scanning time. You have to train covert ops and fly that ship, or fly frigate with astrometrics bonus then racial frigate skill will count, train signal acquisition and put gravity capcitor rigs on your ship.
Knight Storm Caldari Unlimited Ventures	Posted - 2008.01.09 19:12:00 - [394] Edited by: Knight Storm on 09/01/2008 19:16:45 Originally by: velmistr Ecco Originally by: Happy Endings Edited by: Happy Endings on 09/01/2008 03:57:55 ... Read guide more carefully. Neither of these skills (Astrometrics,Astrometric Pinpointing, Astrometric Triangulation) have to do with scanning time. You have to train covert ops and fly that ship, or fly frigate with astrometrics bonus then racial frigate skill will count, train signal acquisition and put gravity capcitor rigs on your ship. Understood, thank you I should note last night I dropped 3 Quest probes in a large Triangle in the system. I just wanted to get some sort of result to see how it all worked. After it completed it found a ship and a POS! Both not in a SS, But it still gave me the warp too option. I thought that was pretty neat. My videos www.bradster.net
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:14:00 - [395] I have read through as much as I could but It's taking too long so I apologise if this has been mentioned. Basically I want to know what type of deadspace complex I'm in, in 0.0. What it is and what level it is 1/10, 6/10 etc. How do I find this out??
Ikonz Coristati Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.09 22:12:00 - [396] Any newer guides?
Kell Braugh	Posted - 2008.05.12 18:35:00 - [397] Originally by: Lorz0r Basically I want to know what type of deadspace complex I'm in, in 0.0. What it is and what level it is 1/10, 6/10 etc. How do I find this out?? Two things. The name of the plex will be in the system map after you warp to it the first time. If its a 'true' plex, you will get a pop up saying its name, a short description, and the DED rating. - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.05.13 00:00:00 - [398] Originally by: Ikonz Any newer guides? Probably not in time to help you, but there's a less out of date version of this guide here: Joerd Toastius' Exploration Guide v2.0 There have been some changes it doesn't reflect, but it's still a great introduction. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Brobuck GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:09:00 - [399] Edited by: Brobuck on 14/07/2008 18:11:16 Edited by: Brobuck on 14/07/2008 18:10:46 good tips, thanks Edited by: Brobuck on 14/07/2008 18:10:25 delete this post please
jasanpete	Posted - 2008.09.20 20:58:00 - [400] i have found with lots of plexs including real plex's, if you hit warp to, say anomallies, then hit stop ship immediately. check your solar system map in F10, an it will name the plex, this can then give u an idea of whether your about to drop your kin/therm tanked rattlesnake into and large drone plex. or whether the plex is small or large, if you try to remember eg guristas port is small and guristas harvest is medium then youl know how long each will take and likely learn the spawn types and what to kill first.

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