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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:57:00 -
[91]
Heya Daron,
Nice Info you provided.
If it's ok for you, I'll add this stuff to my IGB Page to.
btw.
Status of my IGB Page atm:
Guide - Joerd & Hoshi's Info on Exploration
Tipps'n'Tricks - My Tipps about various topics
FAQ - The FAQ from Page 1
Deadspace Database - only a very basic atm, but will evovle in something bigger)
Media - Only 1 Videotutorial so far (a Sample run from Multi probe over Bookmarks till the final hidden Complex) [BAD editing]
IGB - A Collection of items you may need + Ingame links
ToDo:
- Bigger & Better Database
- Finish the Picture Tutorial on Bookmarks
- Making my 5-part Video Series on Exploration (gathering FRAPS for the first one atm)
- Implementing the Formula to calc Target Sig. Strenght
- MAYBE an Ingame Marketplace to sell hidden stuff BMs (someone posted that today, and I'm thinking about that, but still unclear)
- ...
cheers
DNightmare
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.02 19:22:00 -
[92]
First off, thank you for the IGB guide, itÆs extremely helpful.
I did have a couple of comments/questions. In the section where you discuss bookmark placement for coverage I couldnÆt help but notice that some of the ôXö-es you use to indicate bookmarks donÆt appear to be placeable. By that I mean that it looks like they arenÆt located between two warpable objects in space. A minor gripe, to be sure, but I do wonder if you have a trick up your sleeve for placing such a bookmark.
My only idea was to scan for (at least) ships in addition to cosmic sigs with the ôbest fitö coverage and hope to find someoneÆs safespot hanging out in the direction you want to go. But thatÆs just a long shot any way you look at it.
Incidentally, I scanned down a Gravimetric signal last night after quite a few probes along with a wish and a prayer. It was an ôExploration û Smallö site that had a few odd and end Crokite, Dark Ochre and Spodumain asteroids (about 25 small æroids). It was an extremely tricky one to get to, and it was located in a 0.4 system (sorry I didnÆt think to check the true security). IÆm wondering what ôLevelö site this might have been using the scale posted on the previous page. ItÆs of similar security status, but with a whole lot better æroids than Kernite and Omber (just not many). Had I seen this first I wouldÆve written down the numbers.
I love exploration. I have to work from home most nights lately and itÆs a perfect profession to have running in the background while in the Quest phase. I just wish Invention was a bit more popular to make it a bit more profitable. IÆm looking forward to lower sec scans once my skills improve.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.03 00:48:00 -
[93]
Yep, some of those Bookmarks shown on the tipps'n'tricks site are not placeable, but these tipps are only there to enlighten the theory behind coverage (maybe there are warpable objects outside the small picture :P) the bookmark section will cover that all more clearly (when i finally finish it)
o/
DNightmare
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Fitz VonHeise
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Posted - 2007.01.03 02:58:00 -
[94]
 Originally by: DNightmare
(With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire)
How is shorter helpful? Can you move the probes to other locations or if you run a 2nd probe in same locattion is there a chance you might find something that didn't show up the first time?
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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.03 09:40:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: DNightmare
(With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire)
How is shorter helpful? Can you move the probes to other locations or if you run a 2nd probe in same locattion is there a chance you might find something that didn't show up the first time?
Don't wanna sound harsh but read the rest of this guide ;)
Short is better, because your probes (all except the inital Multispecc) dont give you a result everytime you scan & and you may have to scan 15 times before something pops on your screen & you can continue to look further. (And you really dont wanna scan 15*10minutes, so the shorter each scan, the better).
Move Probes? you can delete them and place them somewhere else, but normally you lay out your "grid" os Probes (as much as needed) in the whole system and analyze with all of them together (ctrl + click).
And no, you can't drop 2 Probes at the same location or within each others range, BUT you can drop them just ourside eachother so that the "bubbles" or range indicators overlap and then you have a better chance of finding stuff within the range of both probes.
(--A--)[--B--] << Normal Situation
(--A[--)B--] << GOOD!
(--[A-B)--] << NOT POSSIBLE!
Cheers
DNightmare
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Thalera Saldana
Minmatar
Oxymorons from Outer Space
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Posted - 2007.01.03 15:14:00 -
[96]
Many thanks for the helpful guides Joerd and DNightmare, inspired me to load up my cov ops and have a go.
While I don't think exploration should be too easy, it seems a touch too much of a timesink atm. So far I have burned up 10 multispecs in a variety of 0.3-0.6 systems and got a gravimetric reading on the last. Deployed my 7 gravimetric quests to cover the outer planets and 3 for the inner ones (with a little creative bookmarking - great tip!). Am now on my last scan before the probes start popping and absolutely nothing!
More than a little frustrating. Will load up the planets again to give it another go, but chance based systems sure do suck 
Thal
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DNightmare
Caldari
Psyballz
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Posted - 2007.01.03 16:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Thalera Saldana
Many thanks for the helpful guides Joerd and DNightmare, inspired me to load up my cov ops and have a go.
While I don't think exploration should be too easy, it seems a touch too much of a timesink atm. So far I have burned up 10 multispecs in a variety of 0.3-0.6 systems and got a gravimetric reading on the last. Deployed my 7 gravimetric quests to cover the outer planets and 3 for the inner ones (with a little creative bookmarking - great tip!). Am now on my last scan before the probes start popping and absolutely nothing!
More than a little frustrating. Will load up the planets again to give it another go, but chance based systems sure do suck
Thal
Yeha, but think about it.
It's a timesink as long as you don't find s.th. but WHEN you finally hit the Jackpot, all isk/probes/time you spent before to get to that result will be rewarded quite nicely.
So you say you wasted 10 Multi's and now 7 Quests... Another 7 because yours are running dry now. Then let's say 3 Comp and 4 Sift to get to the result. A Hidden Asteroid Belt in Lowsec (Gravi -> Belt)
I, for example, had a 0.4 System with a real hard nut to track down, and it was a GNEISS field worth around 800mil in ore... now calc that against the probecost and maybe 5Hrs of work. (Even if you just sell the Bookmark at 15-20% of the value, you have covered your costs + made some profit)
It's just that Exploration is very timeconsuming, yeah! BUT the rewards are WAY higher then on any other profession of that "style". So in the end you have fun/the thrill and even a nice reward if you put enough effort into it.
o/
DNightmare
and, Good Luck on that Belt :)
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Thalera Saldana
Minmatar
Oxymorons from Outer Space
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Posted - 2007.01.03 16:55:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Thalera Saldana on 03/01/2007 16:55:47
Thanks for the extra thoughts, does make it seem a little more worthwhile when you put it like that. No joy on the second set, will have to krack (who knows why this would be filtered?) this thing damn it!!
Thal (who's hoping there is something good to watch on tv tonight, whilst paint is drying and probes are running in a 0.3)
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.03 18:44:00 -
[99]
It can indeed be rewarding. But much less so in HiSec IMO. Spent two hours and about 3 mil in probes to scan down an Arcsal site that yielded about 100k worth of loot. I'm pretty sure I got the last of the loot since it was gone when I tried to return to it, but it's possible that someone else got there first (in a 0.5 system).
That said, the Grav signal I scanned down the night before had a few odd and end Crokite, Dark Ochre and Spodumain 'roids in a 0.4 system. I sold the bookmark to a buddy's production corp for 10 mil, which is about 20% of the estimated ore yield as it was a small belt.
Heh, you think exploring is a time sink. Trying to mine that down and haul the (very large ore) two jumps out to the nearest station with a refining plant would have taken me a whole lot longer.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Paranoxis
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:52:00 -
[100]
Hello again,
I finally found a gravimetric reading in a 0.5 system after about 8 tries in various 0.9 to finally a 0.5 system. Seems suspicious I find one in the first 0.5 I go to, but none in the others.
Anyways, I only have astrometric skill of 2, so I only had access to two of the probes to narrow it down. It took about 6 of the 4 AU ones to give me a reading (system has 11 planets), and of course, it was in the last place I looked (one of the distant remote planets). Once I got the reading, I warped to it, saw nothing. Plopped down the 2 AU? probe, it gave me a reading with accuracy of 1100km.
Here's my question, when I warped to that spot, I was pretty much IN the dead space zone at that moment. Are there times when the dead space zone is actually 1100km distant and you have to "drive" there?
I found a small omber field (Which is what I wanted since where I'm at, all omber is picked clean instantly), 159000 units of various types of omber in it.
Also, since I'm only interested in ore fields at the moment, its better for me to only look for "cosmic signatures", and not pick another category as well? And I want "gravimetric" readings only, correct?
Thanks in advance.
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Case Micoud
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Posted - 2007.01.04 10:00:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Paranoxis
Also, since I'm only interested in ore fields at the moment, its better for me to only look for "cosmic signatures", and not pick another category as well? And I want "gravimetric" readings only, correct?
Thanks in advance.
Yes you want gravimetrics.
Here is my question. Does anybody know when those hidden belts dissapear? Do new hidden places "spawn" in a system?
Thanks for your time, bye!
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Nanus Parkite
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 06:04:00 -
[102]
You have to use the shorter range probes to get a closer result. Most, if not all exploration sites only spawn when you get within a few hundred km's. This unfortunately means you'll have to train up your astrometrics skill.
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Dreamdancer
Minmatar
Ceryshen Strategic Analysis
Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2007.01.05 13:30:00 -
[103]
Well so far I have found 2 things. Sadly neither has been a jackpot.
First in a .5 System in Minmatar space. It was an omber belt. Omber only  Omber appears in that system in the regular belts. Was kinda disappointed. Didn't bother to mine it. Planning on giving the bookmark to a newb to go enjoy it.
Second in a .6 system also Minmatar space. This was a radar hit and was a hacking site. My alt in his Drake followed my little Probe frigate in and killed the guards then salvaged the wrecks and stood guard while I went around and hacked into the 4 Angel Encrypted Shards. Hacking skill at 4 and found only 1 thing and it was confusing one. Data Calibration unit. I assume it's used in invention but none of my many bpo's call for it. Anyone know? Also a little disappointed that it was all I got with the hacking skill at 4.
Also noticed that the Codebreaker I has a 20% chance to open a container while all the various named versions only seem to have a 5% chance. Is that a glitch? Or are they simply not seeded yet and thus their specs are setup yet?
We are recruiting! |
RabbidFerret
Templars of Space
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Two step
Originally by: Warbadgerus
Here's a tidbit I figured I shouldn't hold back from you guys. When you loot a hacking/salvage/archaeology can, you do not in fact loot all of the items from the can. A second person may come and hack the same can and also recieve items from it. Fit yourself with a cargo scanner and scan the reward cans, this will show every possible item drop you can get from it. This leads me to believe that it either:
1) Takes multiple people to gain entry & obtain all of the loot in these cans.
OR
2) The amount of the loot you recieve is based on your hacking/arc/salvage skill level, so a hacking 3 person could recieve SOME loot from the can and a hacking 4 person could then come and get additional loot.
Food for thought, you should probably add it to the guide.
Can anyone else confirm this? I guess I can fit a cargo scanner to my cov ops and check this out on my next find.
I was speaking to a GM in my huge petition about the complex loot and he said something along the lines that cargo scanners should not even be able to see inside hackable cans.
RabbidFerret
HR Director
Templars of Space
C.O.R.E Alliance
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Winters Chill
Amarr
Scavenger Technologies
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Posted - 2007.01.06 13:19:00 -
[105]
It looks to me like either they fogot to marry up exploration complex loot tables properly or there is still content to be added that would make a decent reward.
I havn't managed to successfully find anything beyond using the multifreq, and it doesn't make sence that CCP would deliberatly include content that had no tangible reward (ahem).
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Ichabod Crane
LFC
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.06 22:54:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Dreamdancer
Also noticed that the Codebreaker I has a 20% chance to open a container while all the various named versions only seem to have a 5% chance. Is that a glitch? Or are they simply not seeded yet and thus their specs are setup yet?
They arent seeded, but the value is correct anyway. 20% is the modified value from your skills. You have hacking level 3.
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Primaxin
Gallente
Harbingers of Sarrow
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Posted - 2007.01.07 01:26:00 -
[107]
Is one negative scan with a multi-spec enough to be sure that the system has nothing (exploration-wise), or do you need several negative scans to be certain?
Thanks.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:38:00 -
[108]
To outline my take on effort vs reward for Exploration:
1) Train the skills and fly the right ship. This means Signal Acquisition 4 and Covert Ops 4, 5 in both if you're really serious. ***** arch and arcsal sites until you have the parts for a Gravity Capacitor Upgrade, and fit two. This should bring your scan time under three minutes. Then train archaeology, hacking and salvage skills so you can work sites quickly.
2) Search smartly. Know what you're after. I'm still undecided on unknowns, but I don't bother with LADAR or Grav sites because the plexes aren't generally worth it and I don't mine (and work in 0.0 anyway). The real jackpot right now is data interface prints, but profession sites in general all give pretty nice rewards.
3) Know what you're actually doing. Be smart with probe drops. Scan whole systems at once, don't do one planet at a time. Use the right probes for the right job. Learn what signal strengths to expect so you know if you've picked up the wrong signal in a multi-site system. Understand the way probe mechanics work so you don't get surprised by odd results, and so you understand how coverage works, particularly with respect to hard-to-find sites.
If you follow these three, exploration is IMO very definitely worth it. You should be able to get at least twenty scans out of a batch of Quests, which with multispecs means you should only need one batch on all but the toughest sites.
If, on the other hand, you're out in your cruiser with sig acquisition 1 and astrometrics 2 and hunting down LADAR sites then yes, it's not worth it. That's because you're doing it wrong ;)
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.01.07 14:31:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Primaxin
Is one negative scan with a multi-spec enough to be sure that the system has nothing (exploration-wise), or do you need several negative scans to be certain?
Thanks.
One is enough, it has enough strength to give 100% chance of detection.
----------------------------------------
A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Jebe
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Posted - 2007.01.08 09:31:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Jebe on 08/01/2007 09:28:37
First off i would like to say this is an awesome guide and thanks to everyone that has contributed to it!
Now i have a question for all of you.
Has anyone done exploring in pairs? A friend and i decided to go try exploring (after reading this fine guide of course  ) so we loaded up our cov-ops frigs with some scan probe launchers and multispec probes.
I scanned some systems and he did. I pinpointed a couple of sites (Arc/sal Base 1, Large bistot belt, radiance, independance) on my own over the course of a couple days.
Now, recently we both went out to a system together. Figuring if 2 people drop probes not only can we have 2x the chances of getting a hit in certain spots where we both drop probes, it would be easier to manage full coverage since we would have fewer BMs to make.
Well we went through an entire hour of scanning with quest probes and had no results. Gave up for the night. Next day i went out there, redeployed the probes and started scanning again and got a hit after a very short while. Happened to notice that where the hit was had been covered by both of our probes.
Next day later we are in another system that was somewhat tricky to fully cover alone so we both dropped probes again. After about 40 minutes of scanning it was brought up that most of our probes overlap.. And what had happened before.. So we looked at our probes, i destroyed 2 of mine and he destroyed 1 of his so none of them overlapped.
3 scans later, i had a hit.
Is it possible that if multiple people launch probes and they overlap they cancel each other out, or is this just a strange occurance on our part?
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Maric
Science Experts
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Posted - 2007.01.08 11:25:00 -
[111]
I have also strange expiriance, but diferent kind. Looks like Magnetometric Sift probe are somewhat broken or I have ultra bad luck. Very often laucher make several full reloads without any result. Yesterday I was scaning for Magnetometric and Unknown signature with Magnetometric sift probe. After several reloads I found Unknown signature (Gurista Lookout) and no ANY result for Magnetometric. Is it just bad luck or something more?
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Aluresta
Gallente
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.08 11:35:00 -
[112]
So if you ever find a site, then it stays there for ever and you can visit again and again? I think I read in the "New Features" for Kali, that the sites move from system to system, so whats the meaning of keeping a BM and selling it if the site moves @ the next DT?
===============================================
I am going to place something nice and clever later....I can't find anything good right now! |
Scaramaus
Southern Cross Incorporated
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.01.08 12:35:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Aluresta
So if you ever find a site, then it stays there for ever and you can visit again and again? I think I read in the "New Features" for Kali, that the sites move from system to system, so whats the meaning of keeping a BM and selling it if the site moves @ the next DT?
Negative.
Once you have destroyed the NPC's and the asteroids in a complex it disappears. Gravimetric complexes, (mining plexes) stay there until all rocks have been mined. I'm not so sure about this.
Profession sites vanish once all NPC's have been destroyed. Even if you haven't analyzed all special cans.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.09 00:17:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Behedwin
will i be able to find stuff with exploration even that i dont have extra exploration/probing skills?
i have really big problems finding anything... i get a hit with the multi probe and then i use the quest probe (gravametric on gravametric hit etc...). but when i have placed quest probe on all planets and i know that i cover everything i still dont get a hit after 1h of analyzing, many many analyzings...
You can in theory, but in practice it may not be worth the effort.
Originally by: Marketeur
Is there any point to profession sites if you don't have hacking or archaeology? I know theres the salvage one but I was wondering if you can still get loot from them without the above listed skills.
Nope. You need the skill and the module to open the can, and there's nothing interesting in them otherwise, generally.
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar
MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.09 08:46:00 -
[115]
I compiled a PDF version for easier reference and reading, it can be found here
I just want to say that everyone involved in exploration has put awesome work into making some of this information available and i really want to thank everyone.
Please dont discuss this Pdf in here as i dont want to de-rail this thread as its exceptionally handy.
Enjoy.
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JLBane
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Posted - 2007.01.09 12:27:00 -
[116]
Grtz all,
Great that scanning and exploration is starting to take off. I get a buzz from it even when we're unsuccessful!
I'm not the "prober" in my corp but I do fly with him. After an hour or so of scanning he found a small plex in a 0.8 system.
It contained a station battery (power supply not sentry), a crashed shuttle, a drone post and 4 leaking casks. There are no hostiles.
I bookmarked it but it only spawns if my corp mate goes there with me.
We frankly have no clue what to do when we're there so can anyone give us any ideas as to how we can unlock it's secrets (if it has any)?
Also, do exploration sites lead to "escalation" missions?
Thanks in advance.
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Brixer
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Posted - 2007.01.09 13:31:00 -
[117]
Originally by: JLBane
Grtz all,
.........
We frankly have no clue what to do when we're there so can anyone give us any ideas as to how we can unlock it's secrets (if it has any)?
Also, do exploration sites lead to "escalation" missions?
Thanks in advance.
The goal should be to kill at spawns and/or buildings in the plex. Or use an salvager/analyzer/codebreaker.
If you tell me more about the name of the complex you found (Using the Map in system mode), or the signature type of the plex I might give you some pointers.
Yes, exploration sites might give escalating paths.. In wich case you'll see an entry in you 'expeditions' tab in journal after doing the 'trigger'
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Marketeur
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:59:00 -
[118]
JLBane I found that same plex, except it was in a 0.6.. I couldn't figure out what to do with it either. Didn't seem to need hacking or salvaging or archaeology.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:02:00 -
[119]
Sounds like Radiance, which is believed to be bugged
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Torrilin
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Posted - 2007.01.09 16:27:00 -
[120]
Quote:
Does multiple people scanning in the same system, with overlapping scan radii, have any affect on each otherÆs results?
As near as I can determine, no. I haven't run the kind of extensive (1000+) runs that would be needed for solid proof one way or the other. On the other hand, the times when I've run with a covops, typically the covops pilot finds things faster than me, but we both still find things. I'm in a scan frigate, so my scan time is much longer, and the variance looks well within the range of normal, given our skill differences.
I'm running with astrometrics 4 vs the covops guy's astrometrics 5. I've got 3 in astrometric triangulation, astrometric pinpointing and signal acquisition. The covops guy has the same. I've got frigate 4, he's got covops 4. So I can't run quite as many probes, and I've got substantially longer scan time.
When we work together, it's on systems where 4 or even 5 probes just aren't enough to cover all the planets. We analyze the system map and set up for maximal system coverage. If there are planet clusters within a 4au circle, we take advantage of this and drop a pair of probes so that more of the blob of space around those planets is covered. If we have probe capacity left over, there will be stacked probes on other areas as well... and since most systems don't have 9 widely scattered planets, we often have fairly directly stacked probes.
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