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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
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Posted - 2015.10.03 01:58:59 -
[61] - Quote
Sorry if this has been asked already, but why allow the Prospect to fit a covops cloak and not this one?
Alternatively, could you decouple the covert bridgeability from the covops cloak to allow this new frigate to be inserted via blops portal like the Prospect? |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem
Renegades Of Silence
101
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Posted - 2015.10.03 02:27:03 -
[62] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Selaria Unbertable wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:Discovery... Role Bonuses: - 200% bonus to Mining yield
Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later. it says mining yield, so I was assuming that doesn't count vs ice. otherwise I think it would be insane for mining ice 
You're right, a 200% bonus to ice harvesting would be a little too much and quite overpowered. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
1981
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Posted - 2015.10.03 02:27:18 -
[63] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Sorry if this has been asked already, but why allow the Prospect to fit a covops cloak and not this one?
Alternatively, could you decouple the covert bridgeability from the covops cloak to allow this new frigate to be inserted via blops portal like the Prospect?
If they did this, then the Prospect would have no reason to exist. Tradeoffs are important.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
867
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Posted - 2015.10.03 02:30:53 -
[64] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:This ship uses the same skill as the prospect. They're not adding a new skill for it, they're adding another ship that is available to people who already have expedition frigates.
Thank you, dear for clearing that up.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
867
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Posted - 2015.10.03 02:37:18 -
[65] - Quote
Petrified wrote:I am a bit curious how many people actually use the Prospect for mining? I would assume enough to generate the development of this new ship?
I do sometimes. It may only be 3 or 4 times a year that I mine but the Prospect is an amazing mining boat, so I have my depot nearby and put either mining lasers or deep core miners on - that mercoxite doesn't mine itself.
The first time it was a necessaty because I lost my dearest Procurer with a failed bait attempt. Mining speed it roughly even to the Procurer a (tiny) bit less orebay but I mean you already have 10k m-¦ and frigate mobility - what's not to like?
Can't wait to sneak into the next c13 and collect some ice.
Oh btw, can we get a 20 or 35mbit dronebay?
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Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem
Renegades Of Silence
101
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Posted - 2015.10.03 02:55:48 -
[66] - Quote
Okay, just did the math again (I assume this is correct, slightly drunk at the moment  ):
An Ice Harvester II has a cycle time of 250s. Ice Harvesting 5 reduces the cycle time by 25%. This results in (I use the Skiff for comparison, since I usually use it for ice harvesting):
Skiff:
- Mining Barge 5: 10% reduction in cycle time
- Exhumer 5: 10% reduction in cycle time
- Role Bonus 5: 60% reduction in cycle time
That results (all bonuses are multiplied) in:
0.75 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.4 * 250s = 60.75s (without rigs or Ice Harvester Upgrades)
Discovery:
- Expedition Frigate 5: 25% reduction in cycle time
- Mining Frigat 5: 25% reduction in cycle time
- Role Bonus 5: 50% reduction in cycle time
That results (all bonuses are multiplied) in:
0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.5 * 330s = 69.91s (Ice Mining Laser II without rigs or Ice Harvester Upgrades)
This is actually pretty close. Both ships have the same ore hold size, but the Discovery will be much cheaper (at least after a few weeks). If you don't want to skill into mining barges/exhumers, this seems to be a valid alternative. Can't wait to get my hands on a few of those. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Fidelas Constans
2760
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Posted - 2015.10.03 03:14:47 -
[67] - Quote
So about that small mercoxit mining rig... |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
511
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:19:52 -
[68] - Quote
I think the cargo hold is a bit to big and the mining bonus a bit to strong comparatively imo but its not bad and will fill that role very well. But 9 secs difference in cycle times for a max skilled skiff and this new ship is a bit close. And the likely price difference between ships is huge. It will also nearly make ganking a miner impossible. Gank starts landing you cloak up and bugger off. Orbit a roid with full AB on with skiff sized ore bay potential? Yeah you need to nerf it a bit in one area either cargo hold or cycle time.
The other factor will be price imo. To create a ship thats roughly the same as the cost of the prospect means you get skiff abilities for a fraction of the cost for replacement and made them cheaper than the t1 barges for the job. As much as I will love to see the ganker tears as miners retrain and use these to blot out the skies Id love to see a restriction on their use in high sec only, that is to say to NOT be able to be used in high at all. These are perfect for low, null and whs and should be restricted to it as such. Leaving them able to fly in all areas of space(high sec) as will be a mistake imo.
As for the people wondering why the venture shouldnt have this is this fact: Skill for operation of Expedition Frigates.
This skill cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.
If you give the ice mining laser to the venture youll get this.... BOTS!! BOTS AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE!! And on trial accounts as throwaway ice miners. Yeah no sorry thatd be DUMB! As it stands itll take a full paid account to get there.
And a yes to the small ice and merc rigs as well.
Imam: Have you heard anything I've said?
Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
Imam: That's right.
Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
370
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:27:14 -
[69] - Quote
So just make the Ice Harvesting skill not trainable on Trial accounts. Problem solved.
I don't think we should be balancing based on what we think bots could do anyways. |
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
290
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Posted - 2015.10.03 07:09:07 -
[70] - Quote
This ship better come as a default blue/white ;)
with a nice 'X' design ;D
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2781
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Posted - 2015.10.03 07:22:38 -
[71] - Quote
Cool. Dat turret slot, nothing could go wrong. nothing.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
The Wraithguard.
32
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:03:11 -
[72] - Quote
..... 15 Icecubes? That does not compare well to mining barges and exhumers alike. A cruiser sized hull is supposed to carry MORE, not less than a frig!
The 10k a Prospect could carry sounded okay-ish for the price, and I get that the non-cloaky version has to do better; but then I'd rather go for 7500 on the Prospect and 10000 on the Discovery. Otherwise, you risk obsoleting the Exhumer series altogether. |
Aurure
Krautfleet
Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:09:22 -
[73] - Quote
With respective skills to V, a Tech 2 or ORE miner and 2 Tech 2 ILUs, this thing should fill it's cargo in just under 13 minutes and, assuming jetcanmining, be able to pull about 42m ISK/hr mining Dark Glitter.
Neat! |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
159
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:15:09 -
[74] - Quote
Mr Grape Drink wrote:Galphii wrote:Seems like a reasonable frigate with a very niche purpose (as t2 ships generally are). I do question the value of the ORE mining lasers and strips. Slightly better range is basically useless, especially for the prices these things tend to go for. How about a slightly better cycle time instead? More incentive to use them and of course more to lose when the ships explodes  Another who agrees with me :D
Ya, I'm sure that will help with the prices. * eyeroll* |
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CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
384
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:15:31 -
[75] - Quote
Kibitt Kallinikov wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:So without further ado, here are the stats:
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 50 / 40 / 20
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 60 / 10 / 25 / 35 Interesting resist profile you have there. Did you swap Therm and Exp on accident? Also, t2 ORE resists when? (said the PvP pilot)
Might have, should be the same as the Prospect, which has the Gallente spread
@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
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CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
385
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:33:50 -
[76] - Quote
Selaria Unbertable wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:Discovery... Role Bonuses: - 200% bonus to Mining yield
Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later.
That's the bonus to ore yield, it doesn't affect ice.
@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4689
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Posted - 2015.10.03 14:29:31 -
[77] - Quote
Why not just give this a Covert Ops cloak and be done with it?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Aurure
Krautfleet
Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.03 21:18:15 -
[78] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Why not just give this a Covert Ops cloak and be done with it?
Because they obviously want you to see it on dscan when it's warping. |
Lelira Cirim
The Graduates
Get Off My Lawn
229
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Posted - 2015.10.03 21:34:24 -
[79] - Quote
Discoverice?
Dicecovery?
Da ice recovery?
Just spitballing my ship names, carry on.
Do not actively tank my patience. || EVE University Wiki Team
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Beta Maoye
80
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Posted - 2015.10.03 23:47:45 -
[80] - Quote
Remove the cloaking bonuses. Give it turrets, ewar mid slots and damage bonus, i.e. a combat mining frigate. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
307
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Posted - 2015.10.03 23:50:35 -
[81] - Quote
make that a 400% mining bonus for the single turret and it will be acceptable |
Scuzzy Logic
Nightmare Machinery
149
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Posted - 2015.10.04 03:17:15 -
[82] - Quote
Gas Mining model WHEN?! |
Zevix
Industrial Pursuits
10
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Posted - 2015.10.04 04:10:58 -
[83] - Quote
I see someones been listening and adapting my ideas again:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5942986#post5942986 |
GrandLynx
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.10.04 04:58:45 -
[84] - Quote
Q1 Will there be a nerf to existing Ice sources so that there is increased attraction risk? Currently why would a high-sec miner or enclave null miner leave safety?
Q2. Drop the frigate mining bonus for a probe/scan bonus? This is thing is expected to be able to get through WHs
Q3. Will the invention/manufacture path for the Ice Miner 2 will be a convoluted as Strip Miner?
Q4. Needs to be more incentive for the ORE Ice Laser. The only way to get these things will be through the LP store in Outer Ring. Or is that also to change? For the price of one, I bet you'll be able to buy 10 frigates. (a fool and their isk are soon parted, I guess)
Q5 why not throw in ORE upgrades for ice and mining?
Q6. another voice to the request for small Ice/Mex rigs
Q7. additional range to the gas harvesters? |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
Straw Hat Legion
21
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Posted - 2015.10.04 10:36:10 -
[85] - Quote
so your telling me i will now be able to mine glare crust in lowsec space to get a lot more heavy water and liquid ozone and not have to mine 1000 blocks of glacial mass just to power my tower for a fev days because the glassial mass got a **** amount of that stuff and is prety much just isotopes? i love you guys |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries
Stain Confederation
156
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Posted - 2015.10.04 11:43:12 -
[86] - Quote
It is a shame this can't use a covert ops cloak and go through a jump portal. That limits a lot of its uses in null sec imo.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Limited Expectations
0
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Posted - 2015.10.04 12:01:51 -
[87] - Quote
2 coins from me:
- Cov Ops cloak. Regular cloak in null is like free meal.
- Strip miner? I'm sure the art team would make the hull look awesome with it, and there is no need for a new module meant especially for a single, niche ship. |
PecX Ocedei
Perkone
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.10.04 12:16:03 -
[88] - Quote
Blade Darth wrote:2 coins from me:
- Cov Ops cloak. Regular cloak in null is like free meal.
- Strip miner? I'm sure the art team would make the hull look awesome with it, and there is no need for a new module meant especially for a single, niche ship.
Why would the regular cloak be a free meal in null in this case? Normally, yes I would agree, but the Discovery doesn't take a speed hit from using the normal cloak. So I realy don't see the difference between this and hitting a bubble in a Prospect. I have been decloaked on several bubbles in the Prospect and managed to get out alive by using the cloak, and manuvering out of the bubble. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2015.10.04 12:35:47 -
[89] - Quote
GrandLynx wrote:Q1 Will there be a nerf to existing Ice sources so that there is increased attraction risk? Currently why would a high-sec miner or enclave null miner leave safety?
Q2. Drop the frigate mining bonus for a probe/scan bonus? This is thing is expected to be able to get through WHs
Q3. Will the invention/manufacture path for the Ice Miner 2 will be a convoluted as Strip Miner?
Q4. Needs to be more incentive for the ORE Ice Laser. The only way to get these things will be through the LP store in Outer Ring. Or is that also to change? For the price of one, I bet you'll be able to buy 10 frigates. (a fool and their isk are soon parted, I guess)
Q5 why not throw in ORE upgrades for ice and mining?
Q6. another voice to the request for small Ice/Mex rigs
Q7. additional range to the gas harvesters?
1: The RISK will be almost non existing, when it comes down to risk vs reward that would play a huge role. Less than 50% cost compared to mining barge but frigate agility + cloak
2: probe/scan bonus would be nice but mostly not needed, how often do those bonuses alow you to scan something you would not be able to scan without?
4: Incentive for ORE laser is a problem with the LP store not this new ship
5: Another one thats more tied to LP store than this ship
6: Mercoxit rig is not related to this ship (already have 2 ships that could benefit, bouth better ore miners). Ice rig possibly makes it to good, add that rig and the ship will have to be balanced assuming that rig is used |
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.10.04 17:12:56 -
[90] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:It will also nearly make ganking a miner impossible.
Aren't gankers the ones always telling miners to HTFU? It would be nice to have some sortof counter to be able to survive when someone attacks your totally unarmed ship.
As to why people might chose an exhumer instead of this, the Skiff is still very survivable and can at least fight back to some degree. This just adds a different survival strategy to mining.
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