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[ISS] Offer to IAC

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Count TaSessine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:26:00 - [1] To IAC: On Dec 9th, IAC suudenly and unprovoked declared war on ISS. IAC refused to answer questions about whether or not they wanted to attack the ISS stations in Catch. ISS then engaged in a pro-active defense, and seized IAC's F4R-Q station to prove our point. ISS is not interested in dragging on with this war. We're roleplaying a corporate entity, and as such war is bad for business. We have peacefully co-existed with IAC for a long time, and we believe we can become so again, as we share many common ambitions in the game. We have also since learned that the F4R-Q station was paid for by members of IAC via an internal share arrangement not unlike the public ISS IPO's - we wish to respect these ownership links. Here is the offer we have extended to IAC: - F4R-Q has 11 moons. We unanchor our POS on 4 of them and IAC put up towers of their own. - We turn OFF sovereignty on the remaining 6 ISS POS. - IAC turn ON sovereignty on their 5 POS. - IAC regain control of the station and start doing business there again. - We sign a Non Aggression Pact and move on. - Provided the Non Aggression Pact holds, ISS remove its POS in F4R-Q after a predetermined time. Please note that most IAC office leases run out on Jan 3-4. Sincerely ISS Chairman, ISS
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:29:00 - [2] don't ------
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:30:00 - [3] Sounds like a good offer to me
Aero089 Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:31:00 - [4] IAC, there is no way an alliance your size can hurt ISS badly enough, not with the way they nested themselves into EVE Economy. Being a neutral entity has it's traits, they'll be more likely to get support from third parties.
Excesse The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:33:00 - [5] HE'S BEHIND YOUUUUUUUUUUU
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:33:00 - [6] Edited by: GO MaZ on 01/01/2007 22:33:55 Shouldn't it be IAC making the offers right now? edit: Waiting for a post by tyrrax stating they'll let you guys keep KDF
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:34:00 - [7] It's an expected offer from someone who has the upper hand. Is it a scrabble in desperation before IAC implement something else? _
LOPEZ Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:34:00 - [8] LOL YARRR.. dont count ur chikens before the hatch
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:38:00 - [9] Interesting. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Marovinchian Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:38:00 - [10] sounds like an attempt to maintain a so called view and position of strength in the area while backing down to me. IAC if you want to have the fact that you lost the war and had to have stuff GIVEN back to you under the circumstances stated by these people, u will lose all respect that i personally ever had for you and i would imagine the same respect that the majority of the eve community has for your alliance as hardnose carebears. Don't take it at any cost, keep up the fight
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:39:00 - [11] no offical word from IAC i guess they want to loose it perhaps ISS could simply take it as a corparate hostile takeover due to attacks on their own assets and rent it out to a friendly organisation
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:40:00 - [12] Originally by: ollobrains no offical word from IAC i guess they want to loose it perhaps ISS could simply take it as a corparate hostile takeover due to attacks on their own assets and rent it out to a friendly organisation is 'ollo' foreign for 'no' ? _
Tomski Ruslav Gallente Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:40:00 - [13] Originally by: ollobrains no offical word from IAC i guess they want to loose it perhaps ISS could simply take it as a corparate hostile takeover due to attacks on their own assets and rent it out to a friendly organisation or they still havent stopped laughing yet?
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:40:00 - [14] I think your heavy handed response made you an enemy for life in IAC. I'd be shocked if they accepted. Now that -A- has Impass it would be nice if they turned their efforts to ISS. I'd like to see you purchase your way out of that one.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:42:00 - [15] i dont think -a- would want to take on ISS with MC in their chequebook ( MC do a great job btw) but thats the way i see it
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:44:00 - [16] So what it seems to me is.... ISS side - We lost all our mercs and LV are afraid to bring to the titan cause of -A- so quickly make an offer before IAC run us over. IAC side - meh.... kill em all Sig nerfz0rd. Remember kids, it's 400x120 and less than 24,000 bytes (not kbytes) -Conuion Meow
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:44:00 - [17] Originally by: ollobrains i dont think -a- would want to take on ISS with MC in their chequebook ( MC do a great job btw) but thats the way i see it So ollo really DOES mean no! (please refer to the fact that -A- fought FIX and MC over the FIX outpost egg in ED- (i think) a month or so back )
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:46:00 - [18] Originally by: ollobrains i dont think -a- would want to take on ISS with MC in their chequebook ( MC do a great job btw) but thats the way i see it but butter dog says MC are scared of AAA _
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:46:00 - [19] Hell No Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:47:00 - [20] Sounds like a professional, adult like offer from a Shareholder Alliance Which is now followed by mostly "childlike" dribble Say yes or no ..... its as easy as that.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:47:00 - [21] then to ISS u guys may as well roll IAC into the ground along with everyone else
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:48:00 - [22] Interestingly what it dosn't state is whether they will remove the last 6 pos or whether they stay anchored off line... I think that needs clarification, otherwise ISS would still have assets within IAC space.
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 - [23] Have to be in it!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 - [24] This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see.
Aliosis II CALDARI NAVY 'Wolf Pack' 5th Squadron Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Aliosis II on 01/01/2007 22:54:35 !
Lady Ghoulia Eternal-Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 - [26] yay i'm in an un-moderated IAC/ISS thread
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No /signed. Maybe we will let you keep EC. not a chance I said maybe ISS will not be allowed to live in Catch. You had your fun, and now you die. Goodbye. --------------------------------------------
Vily Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:55:00 - [28] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No /signed. Maybe we will let you keep EC. id be really careful say that kind of thing last person that did had some.... "rough times" you could say -
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Lady Ghoulia yay i'm in an un-moderated IAC/ISS thread Hold onto your hat, the backwards-moderation will begin around page 30
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:56:00 - [30] Pathetic. Plain and simple. Kill 'em all IAC/AAA! ____________
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Just out of curiosity, and purely as a shareholder, not as a member of MC. Is this IAC's official answer? I never could work out who spoke for or ran IAC over the last month. I always thought Tyrrax had the veto and final say on all internal discussion, but IAC always denied that. Myn
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. I agree Nez its an attempt to force some positive public feedback for ISS and peaceful and IAC as warmongering. Its a nice effort, it would have been a better effort if you simply just said OK we are leaving F4 we both made mistakes we are admiting ours if you can admit your. Status Quo restored. That would be a little harder for IAC to turn down, but to attempt to force the peace by holding a knife at an outpost is a no brainer of a pispoor offer.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:58:00 - [33] well i just got my dividends from the MArginis outpost today, nice and healthy. Good to see business is still strong. I guess the indicator will be the next one? _
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC ____________
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Mynas Atoch Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Just out of curiosity, and purely as a shareholder, not as a member of MC. Is this IAC's official answer? I never could work out who spoke for or ran IAC over the last month. I always thought Tyrrax had the veto and final say on all internal discussion, but IAC always denied that. Myn I don't know do MC disclose their clients in this forum, last i checked not. So i would assume if any offer was accepted or turned down it would be done in a diplomatic way via PM's. Hey but your MC you should already know that, or are you daft enough to think otherwise...
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:00:00 - [36] Quote: Its a nice effort, it would have been a better effort if you simply just said OK we are leaving F4 we both made mistakes we are admiting ours if you can admit your. Complete rubbish ..... as per normal .. More like .. You can have the station back as long as you don't declare war on the ISS again ..
xh'duality Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:00:00 - [37] Edited by: xh''duality on 01/01/2007 23:01:10 IAC$AAA$SOD$RAGOON$manymore 4TW --------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"]
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:01:00 - [38] Amusing how the IAC Lapdogs are making more posts then IAC themselves in this thread. Tanking Survivability Calculator
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: Its a nice effort, it would have been a better effort if you simply just said OK we are leaving F4 we both made mistakes we are admiting ours if you can admit your. Complete rubbish ..... as per normal .. More like .. You can have the station back as long as you don't declare war on the ISS again .. PWYM _
Toman Torax Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:02:00 - [40] Page 2 of 25... or 30! Won't happen... just my opinion. http://eve-files.com/dl/68899 (combat) Your Inferno Torpedo hits Taisu Magdesh, doing 604.5 damage. Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Oiri Yusko
Rikeka Amarr Eye of God	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:02:00 - [41] It`s quite a generous offer... which means there`s something more into it than it seems. Maybe ISS knows IAC will take the system eventually? (Guessing here)
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:02:00 - [42] Edited by: Muadeeb Ousil on 01/01/2007 23:03:22 Originally by: Aeaus Amusing how the IAC Lapdogs are making more posts then IAC themselves in this thread. We don't have to worry about stupid posts from other Alliance's asking if that is official Alliance policy Go and count your Isk ISS shareholders begone with you in this thread !
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:03:00 - [43] Originally by: maGz Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC A bit of simple propaganda in a war isnt sad to see, the "childlike dribble" that followed from certain members is sad to see.
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:03:00 - [44] Quote: Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC Complete dribble .. Smart move for a shareholder alliance ... try being it sometime ... A public offer for peace and the station back for free .... all IAC have to do is not shoot at the ISS .... Now the whole of Eve are not in the dark if/when the IAC give a formal response and not this Priory DHB dribble.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC Complete dribble .. Smart move for a shareholder alliance ... try being it sometime ... A public offer for peace and the station back for free .... all IAC have to do is not shoot at the ISS .... Now the whole of Eve are not in the dark if/when the IAC give a formal response and not this Priory DHB dribble. PWYM _
Gutsani The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:05:00 - [46] Why should anyone even believe this offer? Isnt count a proven liar? Why should anyone even believe this offer? Didnt count cry because he couldnt destruct IAC 3 days ago? Hell, Why should anyone even believe, let stand consider this offer! ISS is obviously scared and tired of this war. You did not get a positive reply from your attempts to contact IAC's diplomats? Why do you even bring this to the forums boy? I see this as a mTre attempt to save your image if things go wrong rather then something you would like yourselve. And trust me, things will go wrong.. I wanted to type "nice try", but i realised it isnt so MEH! ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC Complete dribble .. Smart move for a shareholder alliance ... try being it sometime ... A public offer for peace and the station back for free .... all IAC have to do is not shoot at the ISS .... Now the whole of Eve are not in the dark if/when the IAC give a formal response and not this Priory DHB dribble. PWYM
O Thief The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:05:00 - [48] Edited by: O Thief on 01/01/2007 23:08:06 Butter Dog is unavailable for public comment. However, he wished me to point out that Count is a man who has never lied on a public forum, and as such you can trust what he says.
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:06:00 - [49] Edited by: Press Officer on 01/01/2007 23:06:49 Hush Maelstrom Alliance and Priory you shouldn't be in a post rated above 12 years old. BTW .. I wanted Spiral to leak this one out ...
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:06:00 - [50] Originally by: Mynas Atoch Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Just out of curiosity, and purely as a shareholder, not as a member of MC. Is this IAC's official answer? I never could work out who spoke for or ran IAC over the last month. I always thought Tyrrax had the veto and final say on all internal discussion, but IAC always denied that. Myn Tyrrax is one of three Vice Presidents on the executive board. I am one of two diplomats on the executive board. FooFighter is also on the executive board. So, for the record there are two IAC executive members saying Hell No. Do you want me to get the other executives to post here too? I think it will be pretty much the same response. This offer is so rubbish. I have already told James Lyrus, who has told Count and the ISS board that there would be NO BARGAINING OVER F4. This offer is just for show. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:07:00 - [51] Careful BD found all his alts today...
Kalamurii Izanthor Soldiers Of Darkness Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:08:00 - [52] Edited by: Kalamurii Izanthor on 01/01/2007 23:08:46 Yes, this offer was made behind close doors, and was promptly rejected by both the executives and the majority of the IAC replied "Kill EM ALL" This is a plain publicity stunt by ISS, but mostly by Count to regain a portion of his forever lost respect.
wdwm Katarr Amarr Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Kaylana Syi I have already told James Lyrus, who has told Count and the ISS board that there would be NO BARGAINING OVER F4. This offer is just for show. Sums it all up really?
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Press Officer Smart move for a shareholder alliance ... try being it sometime ... A public offer for peace and the station back for free .... all IAC have to do is not shoot at the ISS .... aka .. calling IAC's bluff .... this is the ISS equivalent of B-R-I-N-G-I-T. Its a smart move only if ISS have a full house, do they? Surely Count T is not bluffing with shareholders money? This is not the act of a publicly owned company. Count T's e-wang nearly poked my eye out when I read his OP.
Alty MacAlterson Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:12:00 - [55] I'm gonna need more popcorn
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:12:00 - [56] Calling locked by page 15 or less. My first video!
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:12:00 - [57] Quote: aka .. calling IAC's bluff .... this is the ISS equivalent of B-R-I-N-G-I-T. Its a smart move only if ISS have a full house, do they? Surely Count T is not bluffing with shareholders money? This is not the act of a publicly owned company. Count T's e-wang nearly poked my eye out when I read his OP. Not even close to what was said .... try again and shuffle the pack.
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:13:00 - [58] Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 01/01/2007 23:14:54 Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 01/01/2007 23:13:23post answered
Serenity Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Your last chosen diplomat was Tyrrax, so please make sure he posts to clarify your position. Your member corporations office leases expire in 48hrs. At that time, all offices will be permanently on 60 day pre-paid rent to ISS NAP/Friendly corporations. It is in IAC leaderships hands as to whether than includes their member corporations. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Ritchler Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:14:00 - [60] Originally by: Tomski Ruslav Originally by: ollobrains no offical word from IAC i guess they want to loose it perhaps ISS could simply take it as a corparate hostile takeover due to attacks on their own assets and rent it out to a friendly organisation or they still havent stopped laughing yet? I mean no offence here i really don't, BUT, your alliance has simply jumped on the band wagon once the war started for sum fun pvp, let your forum warriors loose and acted like the be all and end all of the IAC um.. Alliances? This is between ISS and IAC, not ISS and Shroud Of Darkness.I think you need to respect that, reign in your forum smackers and elt these two entities sort things out without your alliance members smacking on the forums and raising hell with ISS and it's allies. Just my two cents
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:14:00 - [61] MAGZ = a simple Butter Dog without any facts ..
N Solarz Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:15:00 - [62] cough LOOK AT MY SIG endcough this post has been approved by DHB FooFighter _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Muesli Monster	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:15:00 - [63] Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 01/01/2007 23:08:06 Butter Dog is unavailable for public comment. However, he wished me to point out that Count is a man who has never lied on a public forum, and as such you can trust what he says. lol, we know its your alt butters. No, youre totaly right, he just doesnt answer 'allegations'...
wdwm Katarr Amarr Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:16:00 - [64] If they've already said no privatley why do you wish them to say no so publically?
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:16:00 - [65] The only reason Shroud Of Darkness are here is that the IAC need a gate-campin-noob-mascot.
Elmar Solderi Gallente N4S	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:16:00 - [66] logs on iss forum alt, reads the internal post, spits cola all over the screen short cirkuting it Thyrax man can i have what ever your smokeing x 5?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:17:00 - [67] Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Your last chosen diplomat was Tyrrax, so please make sure he posts to clarify your position. Your member corporations office leases expire in 48hrs. At that time, all offices will be permanently on 60 day pre-paid rent to ISS NAP/Friendly corporations. It is in IAC leaderships hands as to whether than includes their member corporations. The sun doesn't shine in certain places on the body. That is where you can shove your offer. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:17:00 - [68] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:18:29 Originally by: Press Officer Not even close to what was said .... try again and shuffle the pack. /emote shuffles.. It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T knew for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore.......... Its for show, to colour IAC as a belligerent, blood thirsty rabble. Well maybe they are but... this offer was not genuine. The response was known before hand. Only the blind and ISS shareholders can't see this for what it is. But hey maybe the ISS shareholders are actually the intended audience and not IAC at all....?
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:21:00 - [69] Quote: It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T know for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you If they reject any offer behind close doors and spin the total opposite to the public and the ISS shareholders then its the smartest move ever to put it on the public table so everyone knowsin Eve whats the IAC are after .. The ISS offered the station back after the IAC declared war on them ... its that simple.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T know for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you If they reject any offer behind close doors and spin the total opposite to the public and the ISS shareholders then its the smartest move ever to put it on the public table so everyone knowsin Eve whats the IAC are after .. The ISS offered the station back after the IAC declared war on them ... its that simple. PWYM _
Gutsani The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Serenity Steele Your member corporations office leases expire in 48hrs. At that time, all offices will be permanently on 60 day pre-paid rent to ISS NAP/Friendly corporations. Let me explain you how this negotiating thingie works, its really simple! You say like "these are the settings, do you accept it" Then they say like "no!" or "ok" And you are like "ok .. <new settings>, and these?" NOT "Accept it or i press this red button and the whole building will collapse!! " ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:24:00 - [72] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T know for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you If they reject any offer behind close doors and spin the total opposite to the public and the ISS shareholders then its the smartest move ever to put it on the public table so everyone knowsin Eve whats the IAC are after .. The ISS offered the station back after the IAC declared war on them ... its that simple. And the offer is plainly pispoor... Any Shareholder should be able to see that. I still think a return to the status quo would have been rejected as to much water has crossed the bridge now and more importantly IAC owe -A- something and i think i know what they want. However at least an offer of a return to the status quo would have be seen to be more fair in the public eye.
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:25:00 - [73] PWYM .... sorry attempt when your argument fails ...
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:26:00 - [74] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:26:44 Originally by: Press Officer Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you Look you will see what you want to see ... as will I, as will whoever reads the forums... Point is Count T's OP does not lead to peace it leads to an escalation of the conflict if that was indeed possible. Which contradicts one of the key things Count T stated in his OP: Originally by: Count Tesassine ISS is not interested in dragging on with this war. We're roleplaying a corporate entity, and as such war is bad for business. So.. either Count T is stupid, or this OP was a subtle lie.... perhaps he is getting better at it.... next time we may not even notice.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Press Officer PWYM .... sorry attempt when your argument fails ... if you'll notice, i have no argument, i'm spectating. You, on the other hand, still need to Post With Your Main _
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:31:00 - [76] Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 01/01/2007 23:33:14 Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:18:29 Originally by: Press Officer Not even close to what was said .... try again and shuffle the pack. /emote shuffles.. It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T knew for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore.......... Its for show, to colour IAC as a belligerent, blood thirsty rabble. Well maybe they are but... this offer was not genuine. The response was known before hand. Only the blind and ISS shareholders can't see this for what it is. But hey maybe the ISS shareholders are actually the intended audience and not IAC at all....? In that case, if you are correct, thanks to Count for posting, and to IAC for the nature of their response. If I wanted to see evidence of ISS attmpting to avoid unpleasantness, yet again, and making a concrete peace offer, and IAC's response to it, I've seen it. I can now say I'm confident that ISS are behaving as I would expect of them in defence of MY isk. Myn speaking as a shareholder, not as a member of MC
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:33:00 - [77] look at it this way ISS get knocked back friendly corps and ISS corps get full office rentals for the 60 days this kills IAC hopes of taking it back uqickly do IAC want the outpost back or do they have other plans on a fallback position if ISS are kept with it what will they do with it. If they want to move in or rent it out its a business deal but probably non core for them anyway They could always rent it to us privateers lol
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:33:00 - [78] Edited by: Press Officer on 01/01/2007 23:36:13 Quote: Look you will see what you want to see ... as will I, as will whoever reads the forums... Point is Count T's OP does not lead to peace it leads to an escalation of the conflict if that was indeed possible Complete dribble .... IAC have already stated that there is no way for peace .... all Count T was doing was making it public so now one can spin the spin ...... Please engage brain ..... The IAC should have at least the balls to say "we don't want peace at all, lets fight"
Serenity Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:33:00 - [79] These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. New ISS IPO Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:35:00 - [80] Quote: if you'll notice, i have no argument, i'm spectating. You, on the other hand, still need to Post With Your Main It is .... but its nice to see your total argument still has substance
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:36:00 - [81] Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. These are the facts: A) You knew IAC would never accept an offer like this, so you're just looking for public support B) You are ****-scared of AAA and hope to avoid them attacking your outposts by making this offer C) ISS suck (being the smack-tard I am, I had to include that little fact) PS. No Press Officer/Mongo - You can't have my babies. PWYM btw ____________
N Solarz Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:37:00 - [82] Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. IAC memebers are aware, and we are currently laughing at the offer on vent (im sure ur spys have heard) IAC members stand behind there ELECTED Leaders 100% _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:37:00 - [83] Quote: No Press Officer/Mongo - You can't have my babies. PWYM btw try again
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:38:00 - [84] Originally by: Press Officer Complete dribble .... IAC have already stated that there is no way for peace .... all Count T was doing was making it public and offering the same terms public ...... Please engage brain ..... The IAC should have at least the balls to say "we don't want peace at all, lets fight" I never thought someone could contradict themselves in a single post. Also I think some of you need to reaquaint yourselves with the station aquisition system
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:39:00 - [85] Actually Myn, the best way they could defend your isk as a shareholder is to hire MC. Oh, wait. My first video!
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:42:00 - [86] Edited by: Press Officer on 01/01/2007 23:42:22 Quote: Also I think some of you need to reaquaint yourselves with the station aquisition system Hint for the Priory ... they don't operate like Stargates
Kalamurii Izanthor Soldiers Of Darkness Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:43:00 - [87] IAC are aware of the offer, and we aware of the offer before IAC made a decision. IAC was asked on their forums whether or not peace was possible, and the answer by the IAC players was NO. (The offer of peace was made public to the IAC playerbase) ISS know what they have coming to them, and knew what was coming to them before they made the post. Therefore, this is a publicity stunt on the public forums. Who in EVE (other than ISS) would have thought IAC would accept these terms? Everyone knows whats going on, and its not going in ISS's favor. I would have expected an offer that would atleast ease the rage of the IAC playerbase, and maybe the offer could have been accepted, but not on ISS terms. Both entities are trying to save face, IAC wont back down when the puck is in our court.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:44:00 - [88] Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. One thing I can't stand for is hypocrisy mascaraded as innocence.... A) Its a genuine offer. >>>>>>>> no its not, you knew the answer before hand, they already said NO B) It's posted here because we want all IAC member to be aware. >>>>>> you want to colour IAC's leadership as irresponsable and belligerent.. i.e drive a wedge between IAC top brass and the rank and file C) Its an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. >>>>>>> No, its a threat mascaraded as an opportunity, you can enter dialogue with IAC at any time, just open a private convo.. what you wanted to do is force them to enter dialogue by exposing a deal which they alredy refused and which seems reasonable on the face of it... but that IAC will not accept for some reason or another.. you don't want dialogue you want IAC to bend over and take what you will give them... This was a "Who's the daddy?" post......there is nothing wrong with that, but don't play the innocent card. Its fooling nobody.
NITROX UpAllNightGaming Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:44:00 - [89] Quote: Who in EVE (other than ISS) would have thought IAC would accept these terms? Most people tbh ... You attack the ISS and they give you back the station ... its seems simple to me
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:46:00 - [90] Go go IAC, give them hell. As for the Count, are we expecting a response to a certain truth defecit recently? --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Gutsani The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:46:00 - [91] Edited by: Gutsani on 01/01/2007 23:48:54 Originally by: Press Officer Hint for the Priory ... they don't operate like Stargates Arhm .. yes they do, you bubble em wait till someone comes out of it. Bump him if needed and blow him up. You gonna tell me thats not how stargates work?! What game are you playing :/ And just to stay in the forum rules (EA, this is not offtopic ): Stop the pafethic whining about a "genuine offer" etc, since its obviously not. Would you trust anyone that wanted you dead 3 days ago? I wouldnt, thanks for your time, kk byebye. Go IAC! Originally by: Serenity Steele B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. Ok, so open your books. We like to know all of ISS's leaderships secrets and contacts and stuff since OBVIOUSLY it is important. Why in gods name would IAC members need to know this in the first place? If leaders says no you can: follow or desert. SIMPLICITY.. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Gutsani Originally by: Press Officer Hint for the Priory ... they don't operate like Stargates Arhm .. yes they do, you bubble em wait till someone comes out of it. Bump him if needed and blow him up. You gonna tell me thats not how stargates work?! What game are you playing :/ I think he's playing WoW. My first video!
Zhen Komai	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:49:00 - [93] [ 2007.01.01 20:05:09 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > ohnoes outnumbered ! [ 2007.01.01 20:05:17 ] James Lyrus > hiya [ 2007.01.01 20:05:17 ] Count TaSessine > the ISS blob [ 2007.01.01 20:05:20 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > hi [ 2007.01.01 20:05:25 ] Count TaSessine > anyway [ 2007.01.01 20:05:46 ] Count TaSessine > Tyrrax, tell us what you want for IAC, it seems like a good place to start [ 2007.01.01 20:06:30 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > hum, i'd prefer if you presented the solutions you came up with [ 2007.01.01 20:06:46 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > last time i talked to you guys it was all me talking and iss said nothing ;p [ 2007.01.01 20:06:55 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > except to ask questions [ 2007.01.01 20:08:36 ] Count TaSessine > ok [ 2007.01.01 20:10:00 ] James Lyrus > Right, well, lets see. Let's start with the assumption that whilst this fight has been interesting, both sides basically want it to stop. [ 2007.01.01 20:10:14 ] James Lyrus > Assuming relative desires can be satisfied accordingly? [ 2007.01.01 20:10:54 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > for the sake of argument sure [ 2007.01.01 20:12:19 ] James Lyrus > Now, there's a certain amount of tension each way. At the moment, ISS holds the F4 outpost. But ... well frankly, it's not a lot of use to us - after all, we already have a gallente outpost 2 jumps away. [ 2007.01.01 20:12:48 ] James Lyrus > But at the same time, we've had quite a lot of time and effort involved in fighting the last few weeks. [ 2007.01.01 20:14:00 ] James Lyrus > We took F4 because basically an outpost one jump away full of 'hostiles' is a strategic threat. [ 2007.01.01 20:16:23 ] James Lyrus > Now, at the moment, tensions are a little high, on both sides. [ 2007.01.01 20:16:58 ] James Lyrus > But we recognise that you've got a lot invested in the F4 outpost, and Catch in general too. [ 2007.01.01 20:18:07 ] James Lyrus > I think the general suggestion was to basically to leave ISS Sov, but essentially put IAC back in charge of it, with a staged withdrawal over a couple of months. [ 2007.01.01 20:18:34 ] James Lyrus > And of course, open docking access etc. to all the stations to IAC once more. [ 2007.01.01 20:19:23 ] James Lyrus > With a view to further discussions after a couple of months. [ 2007.01.01 20:19:24 ] Count TaSessine > it is worth noting that all IAC office rentals run out on Jan 3-4 [ 2007.01.01 20:20:28 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > Heh [ 2007.01.01 20:20:34 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > I thought I'd made myself pretty clear [ 2007.01.01 20:20:45 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > that we'd be in a permanent state of hostility while you guys have sov in f4r [ 2007.01.01 20:20:54 ] Count TaSessine > let me clarify [ 2007.01.01 20:21:53 ] Count TaSessine > possible scenario: we keep 6 POS in F4R-, with sov OFF. You have 5 with sov ON. After a 1-2 months, we remove our POS. [ 2007.01.01 20:22:10 ] Count TaSessine > we sign a NAP, and move on [ 2007.01.01 20:25:13 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > or you guys could unanchor all your POS in f4r, leaving them for us to redeploy, and then we can start peace discussions [ 2007.01.01 20:26:01 ] James Lyrus > So basically give away our only incentive to make peace, before making an agreement? [ 2007.01.01 20:26:29 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > remove the only hurdle to peace discussions [ 2007.01.01 20:28:05 ] James Lyrus > Wouldn't that leave us in exactly the same situation we all were a couple of weeks ago? Just after IAC declared ISS KOS? [ 2007.01.01 20:29:57 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > hmm not really [ 2007.01.01 20:30:53 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > leaving the POSes would be a good apology, and would go a long way to reducing animosity towards ISS [ 2007.01.01 20:32:30 ] James Lyrus > Do you mean an apology for taking F4? [ 2007.01.01 20:32:39 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > apology for whatever [ 2007.01.01 20:34:29 ] James Lyrus > Well, several of those towers belong to various member corps. They could perhaps be persuaded to sell them.
Zhen Komai	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:50:00 - [94] Edited by: Zhen Komai on 01/01/2007 23:51:07 [ 2007.01.01 20:36:36 ] James Lyrus > Actually, could you clarify for me please, the process of coming to some agreement? I'm afraid I'm not very sure how IAC works internally. Do you vote on proposals? [ 2007.01.01 20:37:30 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > Yeah we vote on stuff, for this would just vote within executive board [ 2007.01.01 20:37:59 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > there isn't going to be anything to vote on until we are in full control of f4r however [ 2007.01.01 20:40:22 ] James Lyrus > That seems a little strange to me. Are you saying that IAC is not prepared to negotiate at all until you have control of F4? [ 2007.01.01 20:40:48 ] James Lyrus > Not even for an arrangement that would allow for a planned and careful withdrawal? [ 2007.01.01 20:41:31 ] James Lyrus > Because as I see it, that's what we're discussing at the moment. [ 2007.01.01 20:42:32 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > hmm [ 2007.01.01 20:42:54 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > your planned and careful withdrawal sounds like it takes months [ 2007.01.01 20:43:17 ] James Lyrus > Timescales are also negotiable. [ 2007.01.01 20:43:17 ] Count TaSessine > we can set a very definitive deadline on it [ 2007.01.01 20:43:33 ] Count TaSessine > we're not interested in refueling POS in F4 forever, you know Smile [ 2007.01.01 20:43:33 ] James Lyrus > But yes, that was our initial suggestion. [ 2007.01.01 20:46:28 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > well time's running out for a peaceful resolution [ 2007.01.01 20:48:25 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > i can't really think of one you guys could stomach either [ 2007.01.01 20:50:02 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > are you guys open to the idea of paying rent to operate in catch ? [ 2007.01.01 20:51:10 ] James Lyrus > Well, we do have arrangements like that already in place. [ 2007.01.01 20:52:24 ] James Lyrus > F.ex we pay LV rent, for some corps. Then again, whilst ISS built and ran the outposts, LV paid for them. [ 2007.01.01 20:53:21 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > Hm yea [ 2007.01.01 20:54:31 ] James Lyrus > But it's not really something we'd considered. [ 2007.01.01 20:54:47 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > well peace might be possible, but IAC would have to be compensated [ 2007.01.01 20:55:18 ] James Lyrus > Compensated for what? [ 2007.01.01 20:56:14 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > compensated is a subtle word for bribed [ 2007.01.01 20:56:18 ] James Lyrus > It wasn't ISS who started the shooting. [ 2007.01.01 20:56:33 ] James Lyrus > Ah. [ 2007.01.01 20:56:51 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > Yeah but IAC doesn't like ISS, without compensation I don't see that changing [ 2007.01.01 20:57:33 ] James Lyrus > I don't think a pirate 'likes' a victim more when he gets a ransom [ 2007.01.01 20:57:43 ] James Lyrus > OK, do you want to buy Marginis and Tycho? [ 2007.01.01 20:57:59 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > can't afford either one [ 2007.01.01 21:00:08 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > I think if IAC benefited from ISS presence then IAC would like ISS more [ 2007.01.01 21:00:30 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > landlord scenerio more applicable than pirate ransom [ 2007.01.01 21:01:11 ] James Lyrus > Hmmm [ 2007.01.01 21:02:23 ] James Lyrus > But at the same time, we have considerable amounts of investment tied up the two outposts in the region. [ 2007.01.01 21:02:35 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > something like that could possibly be worked out once we were in control of f4r, if that was in the next 2 days [ 2007.01.01 21:04:00 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > altho rent would probly be more than the isk you send out to your shareholders every month, so probly not viable idea [ 2007.01.01 21:07:24 ] James Lyrus > Hmm. [ 2007.01.01 21:09:37 ] James Lyrus > What would be your thought on some kind of ceasefire?
Kalamurii Izanthor Soldiers Of Darkness Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:50:00 - [95] This is the way it is... "You can have 5/12 th's of your cookie, but if you **** in the wrong spot, we will yank that away also" You would say yes to that?
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:51:00 - [96] Quote: The Mittani > I'd offer IAC F4R, tell them if they ever ever do this again you'll get this many dreads after them, chestbeat a little and then spew some more of your nauseatingly hypocritical neutrality claptrap over eveo. From the last epic thread.
Zhen Komai	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:51:00 - [97] [ 2007.01.01 21:10:18 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > if in the next two days you guys offline all your POS in f4r, leaving them for us to reanchor then we can do a ceasefire and discuss under what terms lasting peace is possible [ 2007.01.01 21:10:56 ] James Lyrus > I'm not convinced that's a viable proposal. [ 2007.01.01 21:11:21 ] James Lyrus > Give up only negotiating point, and then we negotiate isn't a particularly reasonable stance. [ 2007.01.01 21:11:57 ] James Lyrus > But if that is your final stance on the matter, then it's something we'd have to take back for consideration. [ 2007.01.01 21:12:08 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > well it was a bad idea to take it as a negotiating point [ 2007.01.01 21:14:48 ] James Lyrus > I have to ask. How did you think ISS would react to an alliance basing out of a station one jump away declaring hostilities? [ 2007.01.01 21:15:15 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > I was burned out at the time from alliance tournament, didn't think about it at all, just went along with what the others wanted ;p [ 2007.01.01 21:15:23 ] James Lyrus > It still doesn't get us away from the fact that we're back to square one, on the whole conflict. [ 2007.01.01 21:17:04 ] James Lyrus > Oh well, Just to summarise, the point we've come to is: [ 2007.01.01 21:17:35 ] James Lyrus > If ISS takes down all the towers in F4, and leaves them for IAC, then you're prepared to consider further discussions? [ 2007.01.01 21:17:57 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > yeah, if that happens in next two days [ 2007.01.01 21:17:59 ] James Lyrus > Otherwise you are not prepared to negotiate? [ 2007.01.01 21:18:03 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > then we can do a cease-fire and talk about peace [ 2007.01.01 21:18:10 ] James Lyrus > OK, [ 2007.01.01 21:18:24 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > otherwise we can always talk without cease-fire ofc [ 2007.01.01 21:19:02 ] James Lyrus > OIk. I'm afraid we'll have to discuss this internally and come back to you. [ 2007.01.01 21:19:13 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > alrighty [ 2007.01.01 21:19:15 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > laters [ 2007.01.01 21:19:20 ] James Lyrus > thanks for your time. [ 2007.01.01 21:19:51 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > yeah yous too
NITROX UpAllNightGaming Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:53:00 - [98] Quote: leaving the POSes would be a good apology Apology for what ... the IAC attacking the ISS .... This is the problem .... its called living in a fantasy world ...
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:53:00 - [99] Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. 1) After we have told you we wouldn't bother with such discussions? 2) Are you implying that the executives lie or hide things from their members of things of this nature? 3) I've had dialogue, very precise in nature, with James Lyrus since before christmas. Your facts are quite insulting. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:54:00 - [100] I think saying that we'll give IAC the station back (which we never wanted anyway) in exchange for an agreement not to attack shareholder assets is perfectly sensible. We have no interest in a war (although those with Marginis shares might, traffic and hence income has increased considerably with the war), but it would be nice to know who is in charge of IAC, and able to make these sorts of decisions.
Cacauphony	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:56:00 - [101] Edited by: Cacauphony on 01/01/2007 23:58:01
Khal Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:57:00 - [102] Edited by: Khal on 01/01/2007 23:57:41 Ok, I'm sorry but can all the speculation and accusations of "They're just doing propaganda" stop.... please? ISS clearly wanted to make a public offer. We all are intelligent enough to form the english language here so we know what a public post entails and that ISS wanted to forums to see it. So what? It doesn't matter, right about where the IAC guys publicly responded "Hell No" the thread should have been over. All these new posts are doing is keeping this thread near the top of the boards... which ironically I just did. So to recap: 1.) ISS made a public offer for peace, albiet with certain terms and conditions 2.) Many uneeded posts that serve nothing to any reader of this forum were posted before any IAC response (Ten minutes of my life I will never get back... it was addressed to IAC, no one else) 3.)IAC said an emphatic no 4.) Crap Crap and more Crap The only worthwhile post after this was shareholders inquiring what this means for ISS, since they have a vested interest. Unless you have something valuable to say, please please please save everyone else the trouble of reading it. And yes, my post is just as worthless, but frustration has limits. (above posted with alt) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:57:00 - [103] Personally, I don't see what's so terrible about this offer. You get your outpost back. In exchange, you don't shoot us and we don't shoot you. I'm probably going to get slapped by ISS management for asking this, but with the strategic situation being what it is, how do you justify your opinion that IAC are winning the war? I'm not trying to flamebait, I'm genuinely interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:05:00 - [104] Was kinda hoping this press release would be about how ISS is the first alliance to lose a Dread in 2007. Oh well. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:05:00 - [105] Originally by: Algey We have noticed that whatever we've tried to do to get peace from the very start has been thrown back at us. Maybe your leaders should come up with better offers. My first video!
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:06:00 - [106] Originally by: Khal Edited by: Khal on 01/01/2007 23:57:41 Ok, I'm sorry but can all the speculation and accusations of "They're just doing propaganda" stop.... please? ISS clearly wanted to make a public offer. We all are intelligent enough to form the english language here so we know what a public post entails and that ISS wanted to forums to see it. So what? It doesn't matter, right about where the IAC guys publicly responded "Hell No" the thread should have been over. All these new posts are doing is keeping this thread near the top of the boards... which ironically I just did. So to recap: 1.) ISS made a public offer for peace, albiet with certain terms and conditions 2.) Many uneeded posts that serve nothing to any reader of this forum were posted before any IAC response (Ten minutes of my life I will never get back... it was addressed to IAC, no one else) 3.)IAC said an emphatic no 4.) Crap Crap and more Crap The only worthwhile post after this was shareholders inquiring what this means for ISS, since they have a vested interest. Unless you have something valuable to say, please please please save everyone else the trouble of reading it. And yes, my post is just as worthless, but frustration has limits. (above posted with alt) You say two things. One, it's a public off, and two, it's just for IAC. It's one or the other _
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:06:00 - [107] Originally by: Khal I don't believe you are privy to what ISS "really" wants to do. My post was pointing out that IAC dont want to stop shooting, not ISS
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:06:00 - [108] Originally by: Gutsani Originally by: ReaperOfSly Personally, I don't see what's so terrible about this offer. You get your outpost back. In exchange, you don't shoot us and we don't shoot you. I'm probably going to get slapped by ISS management for asking this, but with the strategic situation being what it is, how do you justify your opinion that IAC are winning the war? I'm not trying to flamebait, I'm genuinely interested. it is bad because: 1) IAC will get their (or another) outpost back anyway 2) It was answered before brought to the forums 3) It gets kicked down peoples throat "accept it or i suicide" 4) Its not great at all, "you get your outpost but we keep our POS's" 5) Its a plan that would take months .. 6) Its ISS's Appart from point 6, that should be clear enough for everyone? You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? --------------------------------------------------------------------
MalaMo TMF	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:07:00 - [109] Originally by: Arrgs Quote: Tyrrax Thorrk > compensated is a subtle word for bribed Awsome. Had to agree ------------- Don't drink and drive, logon to EVE and fly.
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:07:00 - [110] Quote: Maybe your leaders should come up with better offers Apart from giving you the station back after your declared war on the ISS. Maybe try offering peace for the return of F4 or is that not in your "bribery" plans
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:08:00 - [111] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Originally by: ReaperOfSly Personally, I don't see what's so terrible about this offer. You get your outpost back. In exchange, you don't shoot us and we don't shoot you. I'm probably going to get slapped by ISS management for asking this, but with the strategic situation being what it is, how do you justify your opinion that IAC are winning the war? I'm not trying to flamebait, I'm genuinely interested. Three letters for you: AAA What about AAA? lol
N Solarz Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:08:00 - [112] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: Maybe your leaders should come up with better offers Apart from giving you the station back after your declared war on the ISS. Maybe try offering peace for the return of F4 or is that not in your "bribery" plans PWYM Beat u sergio :P _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:09:00 - [113] Edited by: Arrgs on 02/01/2007 00:10:45 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? All of your allies have run away, and we still have ours? My first video!
Khal Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:09:00 - [114] Edited by: Khal on 02/01/2007 00:12:06 Originally by: Sergio Ling Originally by: Khal Edited by: Khal on 01/01/2007 23:57:41 Ok, I'm sorry but can all the speculation and accusations of "They're just doing propaganda" stop.... please? ISS clearly wanted to make a public offer. We all are intelligent enough to form the english language here so we know what a public post entails and that ISS wanted to forums to see it. So what? It doesn't matter, right about where the IAC guys publicly responded "Hell No" the thread should have been over. All these new posts are doing is keeping this thread near the top of the boards... which ironically I just did. So to recap: 1.) ISS made a public offer for peace, albiet with certain terms and conditions 2.) Many uneeded posts that serve nothing to any reader of this forum were posted before any IAC response (Ten minutes of my life I will never get back... it was addressed to IAC, no one else) 3.)IAC said an emphatic no 4.) Crap Crap and more Crap The only worthwhile post after this was shareholders inquiring what this means for ISS, since they have a vested interest. Unless you have something valuable to say, please please please save everyone else the trouble of reading it. And yes, my post is just as worthless, but frustration has limits. (above posted with alt) You say two things. One, it's a public off, and two, it's just for IAC. It's one or the other It is an offer they made to IAC publicly, therefore IAC publicly responded.... I believe this makes sense? And Go Maz, my bad, I misunderstood your meaning.... I agree by the way.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:09:00 - [115] PWYM Macro key installed I guess for when your argument fails
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:11:00 - [116] Originally by: Press Officer PWYM Macro key installed I guess for when your argument fails PWYM _
O Thief The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:11:00 - [117] Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude
Prince Asmodai United Society Starfleet Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:12:00 - [118] /me needs MORE POPCORN!!!!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:14:00 - [119] Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? Finally we arrive at the truth.... ISS think they have the upper hand or are bluffing. IAC think they have the upper hand, are bluffing, or are simply willing to fight ISS indefinitely. I said it earlier in another thread... the problem for ISS is time.... its just not on your side. .. also I can't help feeling that there will be no resolution or peace in this conflict till one of the sides is buried. ISS have grown an e-peen, and with that comes pride and no entity wants to swallow its pride, not even a corporate role-playing one. With an e-peen comes the transition from a neutral entity to one that will throw its weight around when it can.... even if ISS win this war they will be transformed into a different entity than they used to be. ISS got themselves a taste for power.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:16:00 - [120] Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. --------------------------------------------------------------------
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:18:00 - [121] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? Finally we arrive at the truth.... ISS think they have the upper hand or are bluffing. IAC think they have the upper hand, are bluffing, or are simply willing to fight ISS indefinitely. I said it earlier in another thread... the problem for ISS is time.... its just not on your side. .. also I can't help feeling that there will be no resolution or peace in this conflict till one of the sides is buried. ISS have grown an e-peen, and with that comes pride and no entity wants to swallow its pride, not even a corporate role-playing one. With an e-peen comes the transition from a neutral entity to one that will throw its weight around when it can.... even if ISS win this war they will be transformed into a different entity than they used to be. ISS got themselves a taste for power. Can't swallow our pride? What do you call offering the bottleshop in exchange for peace? --------------------------------------------------------------------
N Solarz Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:18:00 - [122] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. does AAA and friends not mean ANYTHING to you? _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Great Infiltrator Amarr The Bothan Network	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:18:00 - [123] Originally by: maGz Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC the thing is the op is rightfully casting you guys into warmongers
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:19:00 - [124] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. You seem to believe that IAC are the only ones who are going to fight you. If it was IAC vs ISS things could be interesting, but you seem to not have noticed that IAC actually have allies as well... Allies who are willing to help them out. ____________
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:19:00 - [125] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. Right, right... and RAGOON/AAA have no dreads?
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:20:00 - [126] Originally by: Great Infiltrator Originally by: maGz Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Agreed. This is an obvious attempt at turning public oppinion against IAC. Very sad that ISS has to use such tactics now. Indeed we shall see what happens next... Hopefully ISS is out of Catch soon. Would be nice if they all decided to live in EC the thing is the op is rightfully casting you guys into warmongers Yes we are warmongers... We're all about shooting people. Oh and btw. I'm not IAC, might want to check stuff like that before posting ____________
Daedal Virtu AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:25:00 - [127] Edited by: Daedal Virtu on 02/01/2007 00:27:27 Last I heard the ISS fleet had bulked up considerably... with MC backing them im not sure IAC and its lackeys could drive them back to the north, even if no one came to help them out. Then again if they did EC might be a little bit more controlled so that would be a bonus. If IAC wish to be taken seriously they need to use some measure of dignity in their communications on the forums, as well as restraining their lackeys that serve to make them look foolish. Count TaSessine has no need to regain respect of the eve community, you will find in another thread he is listed as one of the most respected players in eve. However IAC has a long way to go to prove that they can be a respected member of the eve community. <This post is my own and not that of my alliance, my corp, or my dog> <No tree's were harmed during this transmission. However, a great number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced>
Vily Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:25:00 - [128] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. Right, right... and RAGOON/AAA have no dreads? both entities have large capital fleets. However, Assisting in Killing capitals and risking your capitals are opposite ends of the spectrum -
Zhen Komai	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:28:00 - [129] if aaa and ragoons are iacs uber allies. why have they let one of your stations be taken? and why have they not committed to taking it back for you? Ooo but we have AAA.. so where are they?
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [130] Quote: 2. We havent called on them yet Well maybe if you got off the forums you wouldn't have lost a station ..
Lady Ghoulia Eternal-Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [131] Originally by: Press Officer Quote: 2. We havent called on them yet Well maybe if you got off the forums you wouldn't have lost a station .. PWYM
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [132] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 00:40:03 Originally by: ReaperOfSly Can't swallow our pride? What do you call offering the bottleshop in exchange for peace? You got the bottleshop via McFIX/LV/Kia/Veto ... yeah sure it cost you some isk to get... but its not like you sweated blood and tears for it. The way it has played out is that IAC started throwing their weight around... you called in the big guns and captured the IAC outpost. When the big guns go home, you realise IAC isn't sitting in a corner crying? Hmmm, Houston we have a problem. IAC have some friends, big friends... bigger friends than MC and FIX and KIA and Veto... friends that can neutralise LV in the east. If IAC's friends stick with them, you are screwed.... if you wanna hear the truth... unless.... BoB gets dragged into it. I know.. I know its the B word that we shall not mention... but thats the way the cookie is crumbling. PS - there is another difference, IAC's friends turn up for free.. you have to pay for your 'friends' and even then your leader aint all that pleased about their performance... oopsy daisy.... [edit:small addition]
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:34:00 - [133] Originally by: Zhen Komai if aaa and ragoons are iacs uber allies. why have they let one of your stations be taken? and why have they not committed to taking it back for you? Ooo but we have AAA.. so where are they? in this case IAC are bluffing
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:36:00 - [134] Originally by: maGz Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: O Thief Edited by: O Thief on 02/01/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? ring ring... phone.... oh its Butter Dog, he has a message for you: " IAC are winning because with AAA on the side of IAC, further offensive operations against them are not possible... they are fighting for their home space, where they live, through passion... not because they are being told to defend a Gallente Administrative Outpost they don't even want cos MC got too scared to finish the job with AAA in the picture " oh... he hung up... how rude Okay let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. But IAC face a similar situation. They have been backed into a dead-end constellation with us sitting right outside. I cannot see how IAC can mount an offensive operation against US. True, they managed to establish a foothold in F4, but from what I've seen, they do not posess a large enough capital fleet to convert that into taking back F4 or any other system under ISS sovereignty. You seem to believe that IAC are the only ones who are going to fight you. If it was IAC vs ISS things could be interesting, but you seem to not have noticed that IAC actually have allies as well... Allies who are willing to help them out. Can't say I've seen hide nor hair of your allies' capital fleet. Why has it not been deployed yet? You have a foothold in F4, and have had it for several days now. You have had plenty of opportunity to take the initiative, yet you have not taken it. You waiting for something? I'm going to stop posting now because I fear anything further I post may be considered flamebait. Plus, I'm tired. Goodnight, all. --------------------------------------------------------------------
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:36:00 - [135] Originally by: ollobrains Originally by: Zhen Komai if aaa and ragoons are iacs uber allies. why have they let one of your stations be taken? and why have they not committed to taking it back for you? Ooo but we have AAA.. so where are they? in this case IAC are bluffing Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. --------------------------------------------
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:38:00 - [136] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: ollobrains Originally by: Zhen Komai if aaa and ragoons are iacs uber allies. why have they let one of your stations be taken? and why have they not committed to taking it back for you? Ooo but we have AAA.. so where are they? in this case IAC are bluffing Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. I was gonna bring 3 caracals... _
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:39:00 - [137] all pirates please raid IAC space to keep things fun until BOB shows up
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:41:00 - [138] You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here.
ptmpredator Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:41:00 - [139] so whose side are the pirates on? iss?
NITROX UpAllNightGaming Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:42:00 - [140] Quote: You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. here is the truth.
Khal Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:43:00 - [141] Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. /me runs and hides before the thread deteriorates even further ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:46:00 - [142] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 00:47:22 Originally by: Derran But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. ..gah comeon.. since when is 0.0 about peace? The game is war... UK should know that, I mean you have a symbiotic existance with CVA who you war all the time. Why don't CVA and UK sign a peace treaty already... what is it with all this pointless fighting.. think of the children !!!
ptmpredator Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:47:00 - [143] Edited by: ptmpredator on 02/01/2007 00:47:43 yea guys dont insult people too much
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:47:00 - [144] Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. Don't dig a hole your alliance can't crawl out of. --------------------------------------------
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:49:00 - [145] Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. This coming from a member of the slave alliance. Are you posting for your master The Enslaver? Or are you posting for yourself. Freedom fighters indeed... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:50:00 - [146] Quote: Don't dig a hole your alliance can't crawl out of IAC seems to be threaterning alot of people with someones elses muscle.
n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:50:00 - [147] Hi Count, Firstly, thanks for announcing publically ISS' first tangible offer to seek of peace with IAC. You are also correct that IAC's member corps are the sole owners of the F4R outpost and have the ultimate say in it's future. This post however is a publicity stunt. You and your 'discussion team' know full well, IAC refused to acknowledge your bargaining chip plan. I have read the negotiation logs between your guys, and IAC's and we've made it very clear. At the beginning of this entire war, I highlighted areas for you that you and your alliance needed to remedy to appease the relationship with IAC. By accepting this NAP, IAC and ISS would be in exactly the same position as we were before we started and as a result the entire campaign from both perspective achieves nothing. One of the areas that I particularly mentioned was your inability to deal with IAC in a fair and honourable way. Through this campaign and your 3 weeks of forum silence, you've been ousted publically as a liar and two faced operator to not only IAC, but your employees and inevitably your shareholders. Until your address contains information that confronts issues that have been brought up, a plan for the future and also a public explanation to the EVE public and entities involved in this war as to why you blatently lied to us all we cannot take you seriously. Address these concerns and you may win over IAC's members which the leadership team must follow. I have sent this subtle message through your numerous entities that have communicated with me, in the hope you realise is your only road to peace. Right now, the absolute majority of those 'voters' refuse to back down. Count, I cannot fault your vision and also your dedication to seeing ISS work, it is however your ignorance of medium sized entites, your leadership team's poor and undermining communication and your manipulative political tactics that is causing any talks to break down. -n
Hast Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:51:00 - [148] B B B B BAAAANDWAAAGON enjoy your lag people Originally by: omeega PICTURE TOO BIG, KGB INCOMING HAVE FUN.
Tiuwaz Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:52:00 - [149] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 02/01/2007 00:52:50 Oh man, another briliant read. I like your posts Nez, i think you are quite right with your analysis of the reasons for this thread. PR stunt if i ever saw one. ___________________________________
xh'duality Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:54:00 - [150] Have you ever felt the wrath of 1500 blood thirsty IAC's Your about to feel some YARRRR!!! PS.: Still hoping for DHB Foofighter to pod me for still posting junk --------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"]
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:58:00 - [151] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No /signed. Maybe we will let you keep EC. Hands off fancy pants! Originally by: Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:58:00 - [152] Originally by: xh'duality Have you ever felt the wrath of 1500 blood thirsty IAC's Your about to feel some YARRRR!!! PS.: Still hoping for DHB Foofighter to pod me for still posting junk im just going to warp you to a hostile pos then cancel the warp --------------------------------------------
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:58:00 - [153] Quote: Have you ever felt the wrath of 1500 blood thirsty IAC's Your about to feel some YARRRR!!! Well get off the forums and actually do something apart from losing a station .. Were waiting ..... or is it just Yap Yap
xh'duality Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:01:00 - [154] Originally by: Alice Magnum Quote: Have you ever felt the wrath of 1500 blood thirsty IAC's Your about to feel some YARRRR!!! Well get off the forums and actually do something apart from losing a station .. Were waiting ..... or is it just Yap Yap Well we are doing what our main goal was in this WAR. Shoozting ISS for to win. Eventualy we will do some Pos shoozting I hope but till then we stick on what our goal was. --------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"]
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:02:00 - [155] Had station ... talked alot ... Lost Station .... talked alot ... fill in the blanks ... still looks like Yap Yap to me
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:02:00 - [156] "2. We havent called on them yet" Isn't then relying on their presence and performance like on some kind of deus ex machina... pretty much counting your chickens before they hatch, then..?
xh'duality Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:03:00 - [157] Originally by: Alice Magnum Had station ... talked alot ... Lost Station .... talked alot ... fill in the blanks ... still looks like Yap Yap to me Me like YAP YAP. Have you been latly around F4R2? ISS diapeard /me looking for some good ISS target's to shoozt. --------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"]
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:05:00 - [158] Well they seem to find you ok ... as they have the station ..... Yap Yap
Angry Dan Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:06:00 - [159] Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. The irony in this post has put creases in my pants from 500 yards away. After UK attacked HF without provocation, you can can that lot. Oh yeah, while I disaprove of some of IAC's new friends, ISS's has some friends I dislike even more. Expedience makes for some strange bedfellows. The rest of this post was removed, because flaming is bad, unless your cooking a meal fit for the King. Hail to the King baby! ++++++++++++++++++++ Founder member of the Huzzah Federation. Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence Widowmakers director Fear my kneepads of allure!
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:07:00 - [160] Originally by: Aeaus Amusing how the IAC Lapdogs are making more posts then IAC themselves in this thread. Lapdog #1 Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:07:00 - [161] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: ollobrains Originally by: Zhen Komai if aaa and ragoons are iacs uber allies. why have they let one of your stations be taken? and why have they not committed to taking it back for you? Ooo but we have AAA.. so where are they? in this case IAC are bluffing Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. Yep. My first video!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:11:00 - [162] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 01:24:43 Originally by: j0sephine "2. We havent called on them yet" Isn't then relying on their presence and performance like on some kind of deus ex machina... pretty much counting your chickens before they hatch, then..? Well thats the thing j0sephine....... it seems AAA don't even have to perform. The mere possiblity of them getting stuck into this IAC <> ISS war was sufficient for MC to want their contract rewritten... in the form of more ISK and a "better plan". We have had leaks (possibly genuine) of The Mittandi (Goon Top Brass) in no uncertain terms making it quite clear that ISS need to back down. RAGoonTCF can keep LV busy... ISS may have to pay through the nose to get MC to fight AAA. That leaves IAC to fight ISS mano a mano. All the outside influences have balanced themselves out so that this may end up being a straight up fight between ISS and IAC. Both parties should have a lot of fun. [edit:missed out TCF]
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:12:00 - [163] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. Don't dig a hole your alliance can't crawl out of. Aren't you doing that right now?
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:13:00 - [164] Originally by: Aeaus Amusing how the IAC Lapdogs are making more posts then IAC themselves in this thread. Lapdog #2 Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:14:00 - [165] Originally by: Aeaus Amusing how the IAC Lapdogs are making more posts then IAC themselves in this thread. Lapdog #3 Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:16:00 - [166] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. This coming from a member of the slave alliance. Are you posting for your master The Enslaver? Or are you posting for yourself. Freedom fighters indeed... Typical. Twist things to avoid the truth. What a shock on the forums. I speak for myself. Personally, I chose not to participate in the beginnings of the war. I like to have fair fights, not overwhelming the enemy. I also couldn't care less about propaganda from either side or the beating of chests. But after seeing such idiocy from 'leaders', I personally would like to strangle you all with my bare hands.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:21:00 - [167] Edited by: Derran on 02/01/2007 01:24:25 Originally by: Angry Dan The irony in this post has put creases in my pants from 500 yards away. After UK attacked HF without provocation, you can can that lot. Provacation like allying with CVA in attacking us? Dumba$$. That is like the pot calling the kettle black considering how much D2 have camped at the Kari gate in Y-MP gate, attacking everyone without provocation. Like most people, not interested in fair, standup fights, just cheap ganks before running back to secure space when the going gets tough.
Broska FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:24:00 - [168] My opinion on the whole sitution is: Yes it's a PR post and it does it's job, It makes ISS look better and IAC look worse. The term's of the offer IMO are extreemly fair, IAC war decced ISS, ISS launched a decisive counter-attack and captured a stratigic point. The offer would allow peace with IAC loosing no territory. The idea that ISS were just going to unanchor all their POS's and give up their only bargining chip in a war that IAC were the aggressors in is absurd. By not accepting this offer IAC has nothing to gain and everything to loose. I would be the first person to join in shooting ISS if I were not in an alliance situation with territory to defend because they'd have no way to hit back but to destroy my ship (which is easily replaced) however as an alliance you have much more to loose, i.e. Territory + Outposts which are not so easy to replace. Just my 2pence and to anyone who calls me a ISS fanboy your an idiot, I actualy wanted IAC to do some damage. ------------------------------ Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:33:00 - [169] "Well thats the thing j0sephine....... it seems AAA don't even have to perform. The mere possiblity of them getting stuck into this IAC <> ISS war was sufficient for MC to want their contract rewritten... in the form of more ISK and a "better plan"." MC wishing to adjust the contract in light of such change is very sensible imo -- they are mercenaries after all, if they are expected to do more than what they're initially hired for then quite naturally they will ask to be paid to match that. Since ISS is also business entity they are likely to understand the concept pretty well. The thing not mentioned in this thread is, if/once the mercs are paid then they pretty much have to stick to it because their credibility (and future contracts) are at stake. On the other hand an ally that just joins the bandwagon because they have nothing better to do... has no obligation to stay if something more interesting or hitting closer to home pops up. I can see why ISS would want to cut down their ptential war expenses through this sort of ceasefire offer, but if the offer is rejected then it's imo premature to presume it's some sort of easy "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting. While it appears this presumption is to large extent driving current attitude of IAC... hence my counting chickens comment.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:37:00 - [170] This makes ISS appear very weak.
Theonlystd Caldari Fly-By-Night Enterprises Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:38:00 - [171] Shroud Of Darkness the spokemen for IAC or something???!?!? You cant have an IAC thread without 50% of the posts being from SOD. Anyways entertaining read ------------------------------------------- Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:45:00 - [172] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 01:48:43 Originally by: j0sephine I can see why ISS would want to cut down their ptential war expenses through this sort of ceasefire offer, but if the offer is rejected then it's imo premature to presume it's some sort of easy "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting. While it appears this presumption is to large extent driving current attitude of IAC... hence my counting chickens comment. Well I don't think predicting an "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting is the correct way to put it... I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post. Lets think of it like a chemical equation. War starts >>>> IAC refuse to state whether Outposts will be part of the equation. ISS call in McFIX/LV/KIA/Veto IAC are for a short period up ****e creek without a paddle. but... the cancelling out starts to happen: LV cancelled out by RAGoon MC cancelled out by AAA (or at least made it expensive enough for ISS to think twice before being able to afford it and ofc FIX don't do anything these days without having their hand held) KIA is actually contracted to attack ISS, thats mercs for ya.. VETO don't even get paid on time, they go elsewhere. So who are you left with? the only remaining elements are IAC and ISS and KIA on an empire contract against ISS. Thats not counting your eggs before they hatched.. thats just some simple deduction, which seems to have escaped ISS and particularly Count T, which is why the OP is such a retarded piece of PR. As for you who you can count on.. you can't count on anybody with 100% certainty in EVE, only your own alliance, and not even that sometimes.. just ask Cyvok. Lets face it.. the reality is that the only force that could destabilise this whole picture is B..... [edit:typo]
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:45:00 - [173] Originally by: Theonlystd Shroud Of Darkness the spokemen for IAC or something???!?!? You cant have an IAC thread without 50% of the posts being from SOD. This is because we enjoy the forums as much as the game, and because we are, at least partially, involved in it
Ritchler Gallente Gallente Navy Federation Soliders	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:50:00 - [174] Originally by: Shin Ra This makes ISS appear very weak. I fail to understand how you got that from the OP
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:51:00 - [175] Edited by: Crozon on 02/01/2007 01:54:29 Originally by: NITROX UpAllNightGaming Quote: You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. here is the truth. I second that. I also understand why Count posted his message. You never know what leaders tell their members; I heard on the grapevine that some IAC members were told that ISS started the war!, even going so far as to convo ISS in local, asking, "why did you attack us?". Guess they don't visit these forums much! It's a fair peace offer, I guess some peoples heads are a bit too big to stand down. EDIT I also believe that ISS shareholders (and the eve population at large) want to know that ISS has attempted to make peace.
Marn Prestoc Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:52:00 - [176] You have misjudged IAC if you think an offer for a (virtual) material object will make them put aside there belief's/feelings that ISS wronged them in the first place. These are the people(well Tyrax owned it but you know, he was under the IAC flag) who lost the Impoc, i'm sure an outpost will be treated just like any other object they have/do own.
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:59:00 - [177] Originally by: Hast B B B B BAAAANDWAAAGON enjoy your lag people I'd have said bAAAndRAGOON. but nvm that's just me. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Layla Currie Followers Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:03:00 - [178] Originally by: Alice Magnum Well they seem to find you ok ... as they have the station ..... Yap Yap hi mongo, why not use lauzaro or ar3s to post instead of a caldari provisions member
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:04:00 - [179] "You have misjudged IAC if you think an offer for a (virtual) material object will make them put aside there belief's/feelings that ISS wronged them in the first place." [ 2007.01.01 20:54:47 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > well peace might be possible, but IAC would have to be compensated [ 2007.01.01 20:56:14 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > compensated is a subtle word for bribed [ 2007.01.01 20:56:51 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > Yeah but IAC doesn't like ISS, without compensation I don't see that changing it appears at least some of the key IAC members don't share your view on IAC priorities ^^
Maria Ravenwind Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:04:00 - [180] Originally by: Crozon Edited by: Crozon on 02/01/2007 01:54:29 Originally by: NITROX UpAllNightGaming Quote: You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. here is the truth. I second that. I also understand why Count posted his message. You never know what leaders tell their members; I heard on the grapevine that some IAC members were told that ISS started the war!, even going so far as to convo ISS in local, asking, "why did you attack us?". Guess they don't visit these forums much! It's a fair peace offer, I guess some peoples heads are a bit too big to stand down. EDIT I also believe that ISS shareholders (and the eve population at large) want to know that ISS has attempted to make peace. I've tried to make it a point to stay out of these discussions, as it's not my place. But I must comment on this remark. Please, do not dare to think this of IAC's common members. I consider myself a common member, showing up to fight when I can and following the orders given to me. But there is nothing true in either of these above statments. The execs posting in these types of threads echo the rest of our feelings. ISS may or may not have shot first, they may or may not have set ust to red first. It is about their treatment of IAC for the past long months. It is about Count's underhanded ways, and the deceptions that they have constantly attempted to pass on us. It is about IAC being sick and tired of living next to a crooked alliance that claims neutrality. As a common member, we are sick of it. And to those that are not involved in this conflict, please refrain from speaking ill of IAC. You cannot judge our alliance based off of these forums. Come fight for or against us to gain the insight of our drunken ways. Now, I go off to pray that I will not reply to this thread again.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:05:00 - [181] Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Shin Ra This makes ISS appear very weak. I fail to understand how you got that from the OP ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war.
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:07:00 - [182] Quote: ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war. Your be surprised what share holders will fight for ...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:13:00 - [183] "Well I don't think predicting an "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting is the correct way to put it... I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post." No, i understand what you were saying; my point was more to effect, in contrast to your view at least in this thread there seems to be running attitude of "ISS are ****** because they lost all their allies and we still have all ours, shoot them, shoot them. Oh and AAA will make them all call for their uncle once we call on them" note, even your own equation relies on their actual presence to a degree: "MC cancelled out by AAA (or at least made it expensive enough for ISS to think twice before being able to afford it (..)" which makes the AAA being there quite crucial to maintain any kind of equal footing in the overall situation and/or put extra pressure on ISS money flow. And until they actually appear, that financial pressure is the only effect their theoretical involvement is going to have.
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:15:00 - [184] Originally by: Alice Magnum Quote: ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war. Your be surprised what share holders will fight for ... You'd be suprised at what ****ed off drunken PvPers will fight for. My first video!
Alice Magnum Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:19:00 - [185] Quote: You'd be suprised at what ****ed off drunken PvPers will fight for And lose
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:19:00 - [186] I never could see why a larger corp couldn't buy off the shares of the corp they are trying to take over. Hostile takeover, if you will. Combine the 2 alliances, merge assets, and take over the entire EvE economy... sounds like the best plan to me. Just my 2 isk about this.. war.
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:20:00 - [187] OMG! Another one? I'm not sure we are ready for this so soon! But I do have an honest question though, there has been some talk about it but no clear answer to the question "What is the current status?" 1. Nothing going on? 2. aAa is ripping the POS's to pieces (I would have expected that)? 3. Nothing is done to try and remove ISS sovereignty, i.e. POS's are not contested? 4. Large scale fighing, no Capitals 5. Small scale fighting? 6. Everyone is still hungover or possibly still drunk since NYE and the chatter in local is unreadable? What is stopping IAC to just go all in togheter with their allies and take back the system? My money is on 6, but an unbiased report would be nice. At least as unbiased it can be. Cheers, Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:22:00 - [188] Quote: What is stopping IAC to just go all in togheter with their allies and take back the system? Because they can't and IAC policy is to smack until their friends maybe bail them out
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:22:00 - [189] Edited by: Arrgs on 02/01/2007 02:22:43 Originally by: Lowa OMG! Another one? I'm not sure we are ready for this so soon! But I do have an honest question though, there has been some talk about it but no clear answer to the question "What is the current status?" 1. Nothing going on? 2. aAa is ripping the POS's to pieces (I would have expected that)? 3. Nothing is done to try and remove ISS sovereignty, i.e. POS's are not contested? 4. Large scale fighing, no Capitals 5. Small scale fighting? 6. Everyone is still hungover or possibly still drunk since NYE and the chatter in local is unreadable? What is stopping IAC to just go all in togheter with their allies and take back the system? My money is on 6, but an unbiased report would be nice. At least as unbiased it can be. Cheers, Lowa 1, 5, 6. Depends on what system you're in. My first video!
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:37:00 - [190] Originally by: Arrgs Originally by: Lowa 1. Nothing going on? 5. Small scale fighting? 6. Everyone is still hungover or possibly still drunk since NYE and the chatter in local is unreadable? 1, 5, 6. Depends on what system you're in. That's what it looks like from this side too.
Pakmule Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:40:00 - [191] Come on people! It is the biggest party time of the year and you expect IAC to mount an offensive campaign? We are drinking! Leave us be until we sober up.
Johnatan VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:42:00 - [192] WTF??? Is that AAA thread? Or BOBs? Or RAGOONs? Didn`t get it after reading EVERYTHING. Go, go IAC! The Catch is ours.. )))) ---- start cut here ---- Evil Thug`s alt. ----- end cut here -----
Oreh Anavrin ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:09:00 - [193] Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Gogo detective Nez! Good point indeed. ISS?
shanda captison ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:09:00 - [194] Edited by: shanda captison on 02/01/2007 03:10:00 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Shin Ra This makes ISS appear very weak. I fail to understand how you got that from the OP ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war. You forget we have other outposts away from the fighting that are still happily making lots of isk under negligible harassment while its not much for us to travel 3 jumps to gank some of their miners and npcers (I now understand why Priory love it so much!). I remember reading a post in a blog (if someone in ISS, Mr Foo, Priory or anyone else who has access to our forums could find it that d be nice ) from a IAC member. It stated as well as some outlandish numbers about what heÆd projected ISS had lost (theyÆd killed) something along the lines of the war had been terrible on their economy. Also do not forget IAC members had shares in what was once the Bottleshop that at the moment are worthless. If they are anything like our shares the standard IAC member who invested stands to loose billions. Had IAC management accepted the offer in the OP the shares would be worth something again. Must have been tough to tell your members that they had a chance to get their billions back tomorrow but you didnÆt take it. Happy New Year!
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:24:00 - [195] Originally by: shanda captison Edited by: shanda captison on 02/01/2007 03:10:00 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Shin Ra This makes ISS appear very weak. I fail to understand how you got that from the OP ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war. You forget we have other outposts away from the fighting that are still happily making lots of isk under negligible harassment while its not much for us to travel 3 jumps to gank some of their miners and npcers (I now understand why Priory love it so much!). I remember reading a post in a blog (if someone in ISS, Mr Foo, Priory or anyone else who has access to our forums could find it that d be nice ) from a IAC member. It stated as well as some outlandish numbers about what heÆd projected ISS had lost (theyÆd killed) something along the lines of the war had been terrible on their economy. Also do not forget IAC members had shares in what was once the Bottleshop that at the moment are worthless. If they are anything like our shares the standard IAC member who invested stands to loose billions. Had IAC management accepted the offer in the OP the shares would be worth something again. Must have been tough to tell your members that they had a chance to get their billions back tomorrow but you didnÆt take it. Happy New Year! If you have no concerns, you would just fight and win the war. If you have a need to wage a propaganda war then you are not able to achieve your objectives on the battlefield. You objectives are peace. ISS is in real danger here. You just confirmed this by effectively stating you will still operate normally if Margins falls.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:28:00 - [196] Originally by: shanda captison Must have been tough to tell your members that they had a chance to get their billions back tomorrow but you didnÆt take it. Happy New Year! My corporation is one of the larger share holders in F4. Do you think they were hard to convince? I don't think you and the majority of ISS get 'the situation' at hand. We feel faction ships are meant to be used. We think rare items need to be fitted to ships. Tech 2 is a way of the norm for anyone that pvp's and can fit it. Isk is a means to an end. The end is us having fun and fighting for what we stand for and believe in. If you think appealing to the isk farmers that reside in IAC and the general materialistic forum dwellers is going to give you some leverage to keep your alliance from being dragged out in this war... then you don't really understand what is going on. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
shanda captison ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:43:00 - [197] Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: shanda captison Edited by: shanda captison on 02/01/2007 03:10:00 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Shin Ra This makes ISS appear very weak. I fail to understand how you got that from the OP ISS cannot sustain its campaign against IAC for very long. IAC on the other hand have everything to gain from a long drawn out war. You forget we have other outposts away from the fighting that are still happily making lots of isk under negligible harassment while its not much for us to travel 3 jumps to gank some of their miners and npcers (I now understand why Priory love it so much!). I remember reading a post in a blog (if someone in ISS, Mr Foo, Priory or anyone else who has access to our forums could find it that d be nice ) from a IAC member. It stated as well as some outlandish numbers about what heÆd projected ISS had lost (theyÆd killed) something along the lines of the war had been terrible on their economy. Also do not forget IAC members had shares in what was once the Bottleshop that at the moment are worthless. If they are anything like our shares the standard IAC member who invested stands to loose billions. Had IAC management accepted the offer in the OP the shares would be worth something again. Must have been tough to tell your members that they had a chance to get their billions back tomorrow but you didnÆt take it. Happy New Year! If you have no concerns, you would just fight and win the war. If you have a need to wage a propaganda war then you are not able to achieve your objectives on the battlefield. You objectives are peace. ISS is in real danger here. You just confirmed this by effectively stating you will still operate normally if Margins falls. I didnt say that i simply said the current situation is not effecting our income in response to you saying we couldnt last in a drawn out war. Just saying isk wont be an issue due to if our members are short they can run off to a quite area and make some without much trouble.
IntegralHellsing Gallente The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:49:00 - [198] oh noes! Count has a secret plan to kill IAC once and for all! maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. let's all wait and see! ------------------------------
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:54:00 - [199] 8 pages in a night. Pretty impressive. My first video!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:57:00 - [200] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 03:58:24 Originally by: shanda captison I didn't say that i simply said the current situation is not effecting our income in response to you saying we couldnt last in a drawn out war. Just saying isk wont be an issue due to if our members are short they can run off to a quite area and make some without much trouble. This is what ISS just don't understand, you can tell its the first time a lot of you have been in a real 0.0 war.. where your if you lose, you could lose it all. This war is not about ISK, its not about shareholders or markets or anything so fancy... This is a good old fashioned war for power, territory and control. IAC think you need to die, or at least come under their control. They are fighting for things, which ISS don't understand. You must have known this day would come, that one day conditions would arise where you could not hide behind mercs or isk. Now is when your Navy should come into its own. There seems to be no outside aid forthcoming for ISS in the short, medium or long term. The parties that were aiding you have been neutralised in some form or another. You are in 0.0 and you are gonna have to fight IAC once they sober up. There is no escaping it.. and all the shareholders in the world aren't going to change that. ISK has never one wars in EVE, never has done, never will.. what wins wars is willpower. The commitment to see an objective through till the end. And it sure seems like IAC have plenty of that.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:02:00 - [201] I hope ISS wake up. I have a feeling its there turn now though, and only its shareholders will be the losers. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:09:00 - [202] "what wins wars is willpower. The commitment to see an objective through till the end. And it sure seems like IAC have plenty of that." tbh after that negotiations log posted in the thread this seems to be at least in part the propaganda take on things from IAC: "zeal vs isk counters", natural counter-balance to ISS' own "neutrals vs warmongers" propaganda approach. Well either that or Tyrrax is just marching to beat of different kettle of fish... :s
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:13:00 - [203] Well, they did call it 'wrath of the shareholders' - i am sort of curious whom it is the shareholders shall be wrathful towards shortly. At any rate, I would like to extend a sincere thanks to all of the sides involved in this conflict for making it an exciting wrinkle in the greater fabric of things. Pretty much illustrates what eve's endgame content is all about, and nothing else comes anywhere near in my opinion. cheers,
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:14:00 - [204] Originally by: N Solarz does "AAA and friends" not mean ANYTHING to you? Originally by: xh'duality IAC$AAA$SOD$RAGOON$manymore 4TW Originally by: Arrgs All of your allies have run away, and we still have ours? Originally by: DHB FooFighter Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:19:00 - [205] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Originally by: N Solarz does "AAA and friends" not mean ANYTHING to you? Originally by: xh'duality IAC$AAA$SOD$RAGOON$manymore 4TW Originally by: Arrgs All of your allies have run away, and we still have ours? Originally by: DHB FooFighter Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. yay, shoostings. If im not mistaken, Cap Ship fights are what our allies want anyway --------------------------------------------
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:19:00 - [206] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:24:00 - [207] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Originally by: N Solarz does "AAA and friends" not mean ANYTHING to you? Originally by: xh'duality IAC$AAA$SOD$RAGOON$manymore 4TW Originally by: Arrgs All of your allies have run away, and we still have ours? Originally by: DHB FooFighter Yes, noone is coming to help us. We are utterly defenseless. Don't bother showing up. Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. I look forward to see your titan melt (and hope sincerely i get on the killmail ) ------
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:28:00 - [208] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. OFC... LV is an interested party here, but do you not have your hands full with RAGoonTCF? and if MC get called in again, do AAA not turn up? and excuse me whilst I slip on my tinfoil hat... if B.... turn up, could we see D... turn up? This conflict is the best.
Rshu Jhorlk	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:46:00 - [209] Originally by: n sx Hi Count, Firstly, thanks for announcing publically ISS' first tangible offer to seek of peace with IAC. You are also correct that IAC's member corps are the sole owners of the F4R outpost and have the ultimate say in it's future. This post however is a publicity stunt. You and your 'discussion team' know full well, : IAC refused to acknowledge your bargaining chip plan. I have read the negotiation logs between your guys, and IAC's, and we've made it very clear. At the beginning of this entire war, I highlighted areas for you that you and your alliance needed to remedy to appease the relationship with IAC. By accepting this NAP, IAC and ISS would be in exactly the same position as we were before we started, and as a result the entire campaign from both perspective achieves nothing. One of the areas that I particularly mentioned was your inability to deal with IAC in a fair and honourable way. Through this campaign and your 3 weeks of forum silence, you've been ~~ousted~~ outed publically as a liar and two faced operator to not only IAC, but your employees and inevitably your shareholders. Until your address contains information that confronts issues that have been brought up, a plan for the future, and also a public explanation to the EVE public and entities involved in this war as to why you blatently lied to us all, we cannot take you seriously. Address these concerns and you may win over IAC's members which the leadership team must follow. I have sent this subtle message through your numerous entities that have communicated with me, in the hope that you realise this is your only road to peace. Right now, the absolute majority of those 'voters' refuse to back down. Count, I cannot fault your vision and also your dedication to seeing ISS work, but it is however your ignorance of medium sized entites, your leadership team's poor and undermining communication, and your manipulative political tactics that is causing any talks to break down. -n Because alts like grammar too.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.01.02 05:08:00 - [210] chews on lip for a bit Let me use an analogy. If you pew pew with bullets made of gold, then you'll run out of bullets sooner than someone using lead. Then, it will be a contest between someone using stones and someone still using bullets. "Ignoring economics" has to be the dumbest answer yet to the "How do you fight a heavy industrial corp?" question. (And this is written by someone who cheered Tyrrax after the Impoc went down - there's pride... and then there's just ignorance and stupidity) Originally by: Kaylana Syi I don't think you and the majority of ISS get 'the situation' at hand. We feel faction ships are meant to be used. We think rare items need to be fitted to ships. Tech 2 is a way of the norm for anyone that pvp's and can fit it. Isk is a means to an end. The end is us having fun and fighting for what we stand for and believe in. Originally by: Nez Perces ISK has never won wars in EVE, never has done, never will.. what wins wars is willpower. The commitment to see an objective through till the end. And it sure seems like IAC have plenty of that.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.01.02 05:15:00 - [211] ISS will not fail. It's just that simple. You see, ISS is actually an alt corp for tin foil hat... Retired [ISSN] [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
Theladder	Posted - 2007.01.02 05:16:00 - [212] Interesting topic :), better than the butter dog flaming post imo .
Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 05:31:00 - [213] Originally by: Derran You know, I once had no problem with IAC and felt they were marginally acceptable. It wasn't until this war that I saw what prideful, spiteful, egotisical, self-righteous SOBs they all are. They'd rather make everyone else suffer than accept an offer of peace. I'd understand where Shroud of Darkness is coming from. They are just pirates out for cheap ganks and want to provoke as much fighting as possible. But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. Yeahh...sorry about ganking, we just figure its faster than having people fight each of us one v one and still losing. We do fight outnumbered and on even terms, but of course there is nothing wrong with seeking an advantage in numbers. Some of our members pirate...others prefer to have a nice and pretty looking near carebear sec rating...and CONCORD bribes them to stay that way. OTOH It is certainly not a bad idea for IAC to weigh the positives and negatives of having a faction that they had hostilities with having the ability to push-button conquer the system. I for one would not call that a very good deal and there are historical references for that. In a way the best outcome may be (hypothetically) for IAC to take KDF, then offer a straight up trade. And when we talk about nation states fighting...lets leave out who is good and who is bad for the time being and let history be written. This is not a petty fight nor should it be made out to be one. And in defense of my pretty little gate camping hounds of doom... yarrrrr. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 05:32:00 - [214] Originally by: Press Officer ISS policy is to smack until their friends maybe bail them out Fixed it for you.
This Alt is circumventing the no alt posting rule	Posted - 2007.01.02 06:25:00 - [215] I think ISS are bad people. They should have been more friendly to IAC, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation now. Post with your main!
Duke Grail Darkblade Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 06:45:00 - [216] Originally by: This Alt I think ISS are bad people. They should have been more friendly to IAC, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation now. that's quite possably the best alt post ever I <3 U also, it was mentioned that the ISS people find it safe to go to other ISS systems to make money. they are mistaken, we will kill you whereever we find you. If you don't undock in kdf/zxic/f4r we keep going to your other systems where you aren't expecting us. Now lets go pew pew, my hangover is almost gone. "If there were more people like us... there'ed be more people like us"
Auri Hella The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 06:52:00 - [217] I can't figure out why nobody thought of that corp name before. Bravo
Sacul Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.02 06:53:00 - [218] hurray to NEZ ------again.....sometimes he missed the point but now he gets it-----again....keep going NEZ. much appreciated. [spec. the summarize part etc]
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia	Posted - 2007.01.02 06:54:00 - [219] Originally by: Nez Perces ISK has never won wars in EVE, never has done, never will.. what wins wars is willpower. The commitment to see an objective through till the end. Actually thats not true. ISK determines how strong of a "commitment" you can throw into a fight. If you deplete a corp or alliances ISK or restrict them from ISK generating areas (ie. pushing them out of 0.0) then their combat effectiveness deteriorates. If a corp or alliance cannot recoup their losses or have an industrial arm strong enough to back them then they have the possibility of becoming destabilized and falling apart. Despite all of the proproganda no corp or alliance is immune against these destabilizing factors for a lengthy period. ISS has shown that it can sustain an expensive war and has an industrial arm strong enough to keep up with demand. IAC has not and even if they win will be financially devestated for a good while. I wouldn't be surprised if AAA or some other entity made a push for IAC territory right after this little spat. So far, pew pew against ISS for past grievences or what was believed to be an easy gank is the only thing holding IAC's allies in place. That is unless there have been financial negotiations made regarding certain terriories already should they win.....*wink wink. Ignoring the role of ISK in a conflict or trying to substitute it with fevor is stupid and shows how low you'll stay in the leadership chain. With great power comes great responsibility...and hawt cyborz!
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:09:00 - [220] Bribe meeeeeeeee! Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates. http://eve.klaki.net/
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:18:00 - [221] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Bribe meeeeeeeee! Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates. Someone's sore about missing out on the original Marginis IPO. ... you do take shares, right?
This Alt is circumventing the no alt posting rule	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:19:00 - [222] IAC do not need to take shares, they will take the stations. Post with your main!
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:22:00 - [223] Originally by: This Alt IAC do not need to take shares, they will take the stations. Wow, no sense of humor makes for sad RamblinPanda.
This Alt is circumventing the no alt posting rule	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:29:00 - [224] Originally by: Ramblin Man Originally by: This Alt IAC do not need to take shares, they will take the stations. Wow, no sense of humor makes for sad RamblinPanda. This is very serious business. IAC have laughed at the ISS PR stunt/peace offer. I wonder if ISS is as serious about peace as they appear? Their best bet would be to bribe IAC into allowing them to keep their stations and IAC can have their 'pew pew' war they wanted. A few billion a month would probably gain ISS some measure of tolerance from their IAC keepers. Afterall, they seem to be pretty annoying neighbours, but if their money is good... Would keep some people happy I suspect. Post with your main!
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:41:00 - [225] Originally by: This Alt Originally by: Ramblin Man Originally by: This Alt IAC do not need to take shares, they will take the stations. Wow, no sense of humor makes for sad RamblinPanda. This is very serious business. Oh wait, there was more text?
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:41:00 - [226] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 07:47:32 Originally by: Keorythe Ignoring the role of ISK in a conflict or trying to substitute it with fevor is stupid and shows how low you'll stay in the leadership chain. bah... isk grows on trees in EVE.... if you wanna fight you can always find the isk, but if you don't wanna fight isk is the first excuse you come up with. edit: I can't think of any entity that lost a war cause they run out of money.. its morale and willpower that runs out and then the isk you have, doesn't seem worthwhile spending on a war you don't wanna fight.
Lienzo ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:55:00 - [227] Not a lot of higher ISS chatter passes by me. I shoot what the project needs me to shoot, and I try to keep a diverse portfolio to support myself instead of grinding npcs or even being good at pvp. I like a good many corps in IAC, especially those who's pilots I knew before they joined up with IAC. There are also a few corps in IAC that I never liked, even before they backstabbed their friends long before IAC was ever even considering colonizing G-7. Being a businessman means that I don't have to care about my personal feelings. From the perspective of a grunt in ISS, my views on the situation and my obligations are simple. Firstly, though I am not some hardcore complex grinder/HAC pilot, I give what time I have to supporting the most deliberately enterprizing set of corporations in the game. Secondly, my perspective on the IAC alliance is cast on two parties. One are the pvp core which are happy to work with other pvp groups in the area like priory and AAA. I have no problems with any of these groups. The quaint notion of being "teh gewd guys" on the part of some ISS employees generally humors me although I also see it as a considerable obstacle to many of the corporation's endeavours. I don't think they realize how much logistical and personnel work goes into orchestrating any series of pvp actions in the long run. Not everyone in ISS is a maverick wheeler and dealer, and many are very traditional npcers and miners, and go to great lengths to fill the gaps between hopes and realities. Groups such as Priory and other piratical interests are a critical source of support for the escort industry as a whole. The other part of IAC are their respective traditional npcers and miners. G-7 and the surrounding constellation and complex is a decent place, but realistically it has extremely finite resources. IAC clearly had to expand to G-7, and with their continued growth, they need to expand again. Some see this as a threat, but I see it as a business opportunity. It would be in the best interests of both parties to cooperate and evaluate options to a new investiture. As a territorial alliance with a temeritous pvp base, they could easily exercise a good posture for satisfying both desires. Of course, that won't happen by napping every other territorial alliance in the area. In addition, succeeding in wresting control of any ISS assets will not provide for either avenue in the long run. The systems chosen for the ISS assets in question were selected against preference for resources. They are positioned at what many consider cross roads, and are meant to be spring boards for development. There's no reason for IAC to choose to be cooped up East of Heaven. I've even heard comment (and observed for myself) that producers in F4R were feeling the sting of competition. Believe me, that competition hardly comes from ISS. It only takes two belligerently mute individuals to strip a commodity market down to zero profit. Most likely, an overwhelming quantity of competition comes from within IAC itself. There is no real reason in my mind why the IAC empire should not consider developing a colony in greener pastures to satisfy their industrialists and their pvpers. These are purely my own ideas. However, if you present anything like the above to ISS parties, interest may likely ferment nicely. ---- "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:12:00 - [228] Edited by: zoolkhan on 02/01/2007 08:15:09 Edited by: zoolkhan on 02/01/2007 08:14:08 Originally by: Angry Dan After UK attacked HF without provocation, you can can that lot. Dan. As an enemy you always had my respect also back in huzzah. Please allow me to remind you: - huzzah back then was allied with CVA , a roleplay slaver alliance - ushra'khan, in war with CVA since 2+ yrs, attacked their traditional roleplay enemy only at first, - then you rushed to their aid, and started shooting our ships. from that moment on, u'k fired on huzzah federation as well. Ushra'khan diplomats contacted you repeating times and gave you the chance to distance from CVA (roleplay wise) which you actively refused to do, i always believed you liked the excercise. However, we did never aim to break you, we did not even have a base in providence back then - and so we didnt. complaining about that would not be entirely fair so to speak. Please discuss this in a another thread, or ingame. I see no relation to the ISS/IAC peace talks. Originally by: Angry Dan Expedience makes for some strange bedfellows. this is true. plse note: derran speaks only for himself. he is most definetely not expressing the alliance opinion here. U'K recruit! contact me ingame for free eve webshosting
Dracolich North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:57:00 - [229] Can isk(rubles)sway AAA/RAGoons loyalty? I foresee ISS being a more profitable and logical partner than IAC will ever be - but maybe thats just me. Nonetheless - have fun in a war that will have no winners - no matter the outcome.
Royaldo Old Farts Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:19:00 - [230] Originally by: zoolkhan Edited by: zoolkhan on 02/01/2007 08:19:16 Originally by: Angry Dan After UK attacked HF without provocation, you can can that lot. Dan. As an enemy you always had my respect also back in huzzah. Please allow me to remind you: - huzzah back then was allied with CVA , a roleplay slaver alliance - ushra'khan, in war with CVA since 2+ yrs, attacked their traditional roleplay enemy only at first, - then you rushed to their aid, and started shooting our ships. from that moment on, u'k fired on huzzah federation as well. Ushra'khan diplomats contacted you repeating times and gave you the chance to distance from CVA (roleplay wise) which you actively refused to do, i always believed you liked the excercise. complaining about that would not be entirely fair so to speak. Please discuss this in a another thread, or ingame. I see no relation to the ISS/IAC peace talks. Originally by: Angry Dan Expedience makes for some strange bedfellows. this is true. plse note: derran speaks only for himself. he is most definetely not expressing the alliance opinion here. cough.. UK fired on huzzah first. You did this in misaba after calling us cva lapdogs. there was alot talk about this internally in huzzah. but the decision was made AFTER uk first fired.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:42:00 - [231] Originally by: zoolkhan Edited by: zoolkhan on 02/01/2007 08:19:16 Originally by: Angry Dan After UK attacked HF without provocation, you can can that lot. Dan. As an enemy you always had my respect also back in huzzah. Please allow me to remind you: - huzzah back then was allied with CVA , a roleplay slaver alliance - ushra'khan, in war with CVA since 2+ yrs, attacked their traditional roleplay enemy only at first, - then you rushed to their aid, and started shooting our ships. from that moment on, u'k fired on huzzah federation as well. Ushra'khan diplomats contacted you repeating times and gave you the chance to distance from CVA (roleplay wise) which you actively refused to do, i always believed you liked the excercise. complaining about that would not be entirely fair so to speak. Please discuss this in a another thread, or ingame. I see no relation to the ISS/IAC peace talks. Originally by: Angry Dan Expedience makes for some strange bedfellows. this is true. plse note: derran speaks only for himself. he is most definetely not expressing the alliance opinion here. Sorry Zoolkhan but am afraid you are wrong on this. Before Huzzah had any military links with CVA a bunch of 'rogue' Ushra'khan came down for a few days and basically shot at anything that moved in CVA space - on the justification that if it was in CVA space it had to be bad. You may recall there was quite a fuss about Ushra'khan 'piracy' at that time. It was these actions which pushed Huzzah into the CVA camp. Until that time Huzzah had not shot at UK. It is one of the reasons why when we go to Ushra'khan space we don't shoot anything unless it actively engages (or has a history of engaging us) on UK's side... ------------------------------ AMARR VICTOR
Calisto Cody Minmatar The Black Swan Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:03:00 - [232] Originally by: Duke Grail Originally by: This Alt I think ISS are bad people. They should have been more friendly to IAC, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation now. that's quite possably the best alt post ever I <3 U utter truth Originally by: Sergio Ling Originally by: Butter Dog but I'm professional enough to keep my mouth shut about what I know. i can't imagine that's true
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:08:00 - [233] Quote: [ 2007.01.01 21:14:48 ] James Lyrus > I have to ask. How did you think ISS would react to an alliance basing out of a station one jump away declaring hostilities? [ 2007.01.01 21:15:15 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > I was burned out at the time from alliance tournament, didn't think about it at all Says it all really doesn't it --------------------------------------------------------------------
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:11:00 - [234] Originally by: Hardin Until that time Huzzah had not shot at UK. ok, let us assume i was wrong. (its also normal that each party has different views, i am not after a propaganda war - hardin. i dont care. nobody cares who did the first shot here... that is what i honestly believe) a) huzzah did not want to end the war-status; they stressed out their loyalty to CVA, which i do not blame them for as it deserves my respect. Loyalty and consistency belong to the things i admire and aim for as well as also honour on and beyond the battlefield. it was loyalty and honour (paying back a debt) that brought us to f4 too. Not greed, not trigger happiness or general hate back then the huzzah federation was bigger than CVA that time, wasnt it? While CVA was already bigger than U'K... by say 50-100 pilots i just say this to wipe away the possible impression U'K beeing a BoB like force of evil and destruction:-) b) i can only ask to not further hijack this thread. i will continue the discussion in a different thread if you like. U'K recruit! contact me ingame for free eve webshosting
Frools The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:27:00 - [235] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Quote: [ 2007.01.01 21:14:48 ] James Lyrus > I have to ask. How did you think ISS would react to an alliance basing out of a station one jump away declaring hostilities? [ 2007.01.01 21:15:15 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > I was burned out at the time from alliance tournament, didn't think about it at all Says it all really doesn't it lol gogo selective quoting! you didnt even quote the ENTIRE LINE YOU CHEEKY BASTARD "just went along with what the others wanted ;p"
jernej Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:28:00 - [236] [ 2007.01.01 20:54:47 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > well peace might be possible, but IAC would have to be compensated [ 2007.01.01 20:56:14 ] Tyrrax Thorrk > compensated is a subtle word for bribed Haha, I'm sure you will be kind enough to 'compensate' your allies when they come to fight for a station that you were to proud to take for free
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:07:00 - [237] Originally by: Dracolich Nonetheless - have fun in a war that will have no winners - no matter the outcome. No winners? It's a game for Christ's sake. If people have fun participating in this player made soap opera then they are "winning" - no matter the outcome.
Azzaa Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:27:00 - [238] Edited by: Azzaa on 02/01/2007 11:36:37 Being a f4 office holder i would like to just like to say one thing We are comming for you and your children!! My little message to butter dog
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:42:00 - [239] Originally by: Azzaa Edited by: Azzaa on 02/01/2007 11:36:37 Being a f4 office holder i would like to just like to say one thing We are comming for you and your children!! good luck with that --------------------------------------------------------------------
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:47:00 - [240] It seems as if IAC are determined to take as much risk as they can. 1) IAC open hostilities with ISS 2) ISS responds and allies respond and take an IAC station 3) IAC is offered the station back for free, as long as they sign a NAP with ISS. Since IAC were the aggressors, ISS reserves the right to keep the majority of POS around that station without claiming sovereignty as long as IAC respects the NAP, optionally also negotiating a period of time after which those POS will be removed, also. From an outsider's point of view, you wont get a better offer from ISS. They cant grant IAC the same status quo as it was before IAC set ISS to -10 in which it would be as easy for IAC to attack as it was the first time - nothing would keep IAC from doing it again. IAC offering peace negotiations in exchange for all territory ISS have gained since IAC started the war in addition to "land use fees" from ISS when ISS has shown that they can call on mercs and allies to force IAC into hiding is not a realistic offer. Right now IAC is worse off than when the war started, why would ISS accept peace terms in which ISS are worse off than before the war? IAC can either get back the station risk-free now by signing a NAP, or they can take the risk and try to take it back by force. It seems IAC want to take as much risk as they can - but as far as I can tell ISS pockets are far deeper than IAC pockets, and just because ISS does not employ mercenaries currently does not mean they will not do so in the future. MC wanted to renegotiate terms for attacking hostile POS with hostile AAA in system, I am pretty sure it would be far cheaper to contract MC to defend friendly POS against an assault, as MC cap ship losses would be less likely. Furthermore, IACs current chest-beating seems not to be based on their own strength, but on that of their current allies. I remember a few days ago ISS had overwhelming numbers with their allies against IAC, who is to tell current IAC allies wont leave at some point for various reasons just like ISS allies are on leave currently for various reasons (none of which have been stated as "we will not help ISS in the future at all, no matter how much they are willing to pay")? ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
babycow Amarr Obliteration Unlimited R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:48:00 - [241] Edited by: babycow on 02/01/2007 11:48:54 with all the respect to Count , i think the time for deals its passed , ppl who are thinking they are Alexander the Great and act like that in a video game are just mad in my opinion ... so bringing all your friends to pwn IAC was a bad move in a time when u could simply come up with a decent deal for both sides , but u decided u can kick theyr arses , now u lost most of your experienced commanders and u feel u are going down . P.S. to ISS: move your assets there is time yet P.S to IAC: gifv them hell guys
Azzaa Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:50:00 - [242] Edited by: Azzaa on 02/01/2007 11:53:19 we dont need luck we have the most destructive weapon of all Tyrrax Thorrk My little message to butter dog
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:15:00 - [243] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 12:22:09 You have some terrible arguments Eskona Runningstar, I'm not saying that you are wrong or right in your conclusion that IAC is determined to take as much risk as they can.. but your arguments to get there are appalling. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar From an outsider's point of view, you wont get a better offer from ISS. They cant grant IAC the same status quo as it was before IAC set ISS to -10 in which it would be as easy for IAC to attack as it was the first time - nothing would keep IAC from doing it again. As per your conclusion that IAC are wreckless, why would they care whether this offer from ISS is the best they will get? IAC want ISS to die or at least have its position in Catch much reduced, to the point where they would no longer be a political force in the area. There isn't a lot of manouvre for negotiation from IAC's posture, at least on the forums. They want ISS dead or very much weakened. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Right now IAC is worse off than when the war started, why would ISS accept peace terms in which ISS are worse off than before the war? Anybody who has been following this conflict will accept that this will be a game of two halves.. the first half ISS had by far the upper hand.... with the new year will come the second half of the war, IAC very much fancy their chances. If they are right, by the end of the war they will be laughing. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar It seems IAC want to take as much risk as they can - but as far as I can tell ISS pockets are far deeper than IAC pockets, and just because ISS does not employ mercenaries currently does not mean they will not do so in the future. This is going to be ISS' achilles heel, thinking that ISK is going to bail them out or save them .. it's not. This war will be won or lost by ISS' commitment to it, and your commitment to the war may be tested beyond calling in mercs and other 'shareholder' type alliances. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Furthermore, IACs current chest-beating seems not to be based on their own strength, but on that of their current allies. I remember a few days ago ISS had overwhelming numbers with their allies against IAC, who is to tell current IAC allies wont leave at some point for various reasons just like ISS allies are on leave currently for various reasons (none of which have been stated as "we will not help ISS in the future at all, no matter how much they are willing to pay")? And what about ISS chestbeating, what is that based on? Is it based on the all powerful ISSN?..... no its based on ISK and believing that the ISK will save them, they will hire mercs till the cows come home, pull in favours from investors etc... etc... infact IAC have had to call in friends because of the gigantic gangbang ISS put together to capture the F4R post. Now it seems the tables are turning. And there is one very important thing to consider here... Why are IAC getting all this help, what is it that IAC are providing that gets them all this support? Its not ISK, so what is it? Well... its about power on the big stage, on a stage bigger than ISS and IAC. This war will become about the animosity inherent between one of your allies, LV and the RAGoonTCFAAA connection. No peace will come from Count Tesassine's OP.. only MORE war, and possibly the biggest conflict escalation EVE has ever seen. If ISS were looking for peace, this OP has to be the most retarded post of the year. If ISS were however looking to escalate a conflict that was already at boiling point.. its a brilliant post.
Dracolich North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:21:00 - [244] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Originally by: Dracolich Nonetheless - have fun in a war that will have no winners - no matter the outcome. No winners? It's a game for Christ's sake. If people have fun participating in this player made soap opera then they are "winning" - no matter the outcome. Hence my wording... Have fun. Regarding the no winners part, was merely directed at economical and territorial gain - maybe even at massive loss of members on either side. And to sum it up. Eve is more than a game - it's a reflection of real life - created through player driven content. As in life, your aim is having fun, but that is really just a small portion of the content.
Sean Dillon Caldari FM Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:25:00 - [245] Accepting this would seem like the cowards way.
Unbeliever Kresmoreen Communist Vikings Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:34:00 - [246] Well damn. Personally, I really think TaSessine and Co. hoped this post to be taken at face value, for each audience it was intended for? Shareholders: We acted in your interests, took action to quell the war declared by IAC on our alliance to protect our assets. As its a publicly owned company, as it were, where better was there to post this information? I sure as hell don't troll the ISS boards for updates. IAC: Heres our offer again, stated publicly on Eve-O. Either re-iterate your previously stated case (i.e. ** off and die), or perhaps reconsider your options (hoping public opinion could sway them? Backfire of the century if so, but eh). So now all of ISSes allies/shareholders are aware of what plans may be in motion. LV being kept occupied by goon & co whilst AAA lube up the dreads for extreme penetration . To me it was a reasonably stated offer. I haven't seen the lies allegedly perpetrated by Count TaSessine & co. To be quite honest, once i heard FIX had no interest in the station(s), I expected this offer? I saw the title of the thread today and thought cool, they're at the "hand back the station under terms and work ** out" phase of it. Again, ISS have undoubtedly stuffed up numerous times. As an entity they seem to take feedback and work it into their operations. Personally, accepting their offer 'as is', and seeing if the relationship between IAC/ISS becomes workable is a far better solution than chucking a hissy fit because of a slight in the past. /2c
Alexandra ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:45:00 - [247] Edited by: Alexandra on 02/01/2007 12:46:57 With regards to Count's peace offer, everyone must realize that this was not just put on the EVE-O communication channels for IAC to look at, but also for our shareholders and investors to see as well. From my point of view, Count has bent over backwards in trying to come to some sustainable peace with IAC and frankly the IAC leadership is simply not interested. He presented a peace offer before hostilities began and IAC said "Let's Dance". Then we asked point blank if they we're going to threaten the ISS Tycho and Marginis outposts. And we get some vieled threats along of the lines, 'maybe'. In ISS's business model, you must know that we do not OWN Marginis or Tycho. The shareholders do. We are the protectors of those assets and when someone even indirectly threatens them we don't play around. So we "Danced" and IAC lost the F4 outpost. We get cry's of rage and shaking fists. We heard everything from "ISK doesn't matter" (Not enough ISK) to "Faction items are to be USED!!" (Too much ISK) in this thread alone. IAC's message is incoherent at best and absurd at worst. And while they might sleep well knowing they can pull AAA out of a hat, what I don't see right now is AAA stomping down our doors and taking Tycho and Marginis for you. In fact, when the Allied cap fleet took off so did AAA. Seems they forgot to get your outpost back for you. Anyways, these are only my personal views. ------------------------------------------------- ISSN: When Diplomacy Fails...
Frools The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:53:00 - [248] Originally by: Alexandra IAC's message is incoherent at best and absurd at worst. i dont know, seemed pretty clear to me that they are telling you to **** off
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:04:00 - [249] Edited by: Eskona Runningstar on 02/01/2007 13:10:11 Originally by: Nez Perces As per your conclusion that IAC are wreckless, why would they care whether this offer from ISS is the best they will get? IAC want ISS to die or at least have its position in Catch much reduced, to the point where they would no longer be a political force in the area. There isn't a lot of manouvre for negotiation from IAC's posture, at least on the forums. They want ISS dead or very much weakened. They would care if they really just want a little small-scale "pew-pew" with ISS as they frequently stated after ISS broke out the outpost defense toys because they left ISS in uncertainty about this in the first place. This is probably the last chance to limit the conflict, if IAC is still interested in limiting the conflict. Originally by: Nez Perces Anybody who has been following this conflict will accept that this will be a game of two halves.. the first half ISS had by far the upper hand.... with the new year will come the second half of the war, IAC very much fancy their chances. If they are right, by the end of the war they will be laughing. Only if this really is a conflict with only two halves as you seem to think. There is a chance that it might not be, hence my statement that IAC doesnt seem to be risk-averse. Originally by: Nez Perces This is going to be ISS' achilles heel, thinking that ISK is going to bail them out or save them .. it's not. This war will be won or lost by ISS' commitment to it, and their commitment to the war may be tested beyond calling in mercs and other 'shareholder' type alliances. ISK is a pretty powerful tool. Either you have the ISK to fuel your PvP fleet (no matter if mercs or in-house PvP corps), or you lose the war. As long as you can rely on the mercenaries you contract, you dont need to have a huge standing army, saving you ISK in the end. If mercenaries accept a contract, they will be at least as committed as in-house PvP forces because their reputation depends on fulfilling the contract. Mercs depend on their reputation. Originally by: Nez Perces And what about ISS chestbeating, what is that based on? Is it based on the all powerful ISSN?..... no its based on ISK and believing that the ISK will save them, they will hire mercs till the cows come home, pull in favours from investors etc... etc... It is based on holding one station more than at the beginning of the war, a station ISS got by investing their ISK into mercenaries and getting unexpected support by a couple friendly alliances on top of that. Im an outsider and not familiar with the merc contracts, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that after deducting merc payments from the 25 billion station ISS still made a profit. Originally by: Nez Perces infact IAC have had to call in friends because of the gigantic gangbang ISS put together to capture the F4R post. Now it seems the tables are turning. And there is one very important thing to consider here... Why are IAC getting all this help, what is it that IAC are providing that gets them all this support? Its not ISK, so what is it? I dont believe for a second any alliance would risk capital ships if they dont have to gain anything from it - be it protection of investments, land use fees, weaker neighbors or some new stations. Originally by: Nez Perces No peace will come from Count Tesassine's OP.. only MORE war, and possibly the biggest conflict escalation EVE has ever seen. If ISS were looking for peace, this OP has to be the most retarded post of the year. If ISS were however looking to escalate a conflict that was already at boiling point.. its a brilliant post. What exactly is so outrageous about offering to give back 25 billion worth of assets, returning to the status quo before the war (modified a little to make sure IAC doesnt contest that status quo again as easily as they did in the first place) and pretty much just forget about it? It is only outrageous for IAC if they actually want more than just their old station. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League
Gutsani The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:06:00 - [250] Originally by: Alexandra From my point of view, Count has bent over backwards in trying to come to some sustainable peace with IAC and frankly the IAC leadership is simply not interested. He presented a peace offer before hostilities began and IAC said "Let's Dance". I dont think the people in ISS or the shareholders have that much of a good view to be honest. Tyrrax himselve was trying to get peace when they were in **, and you guys pulled the same stuff on them. Doing EXACTLY the same thing. Tell me, count wanted iac gone a week ago when they "got da powah", why would anyone even consider his peace offer at this time? What i find sad however is that -A- is something to bluff with, the lack of intelligence in ISS alone should be argument enough why IAC will win this. If -A- want to yell a bit, they should do that emselve, and i think IAC knows this now. But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. You won the first hand, new cards were dealed and IAC currently has the better hand. The game aint over yet, but the stakes are high. K, so everyone that doesnt understands it yet needs to go to jita and buy some clues. kk, byebye. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!**
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:07:00 - [251] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 13:10:25 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Im an outsider and not familiar with the merc contracts, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that after deducting merc payments from the 25 billion station ISS still made a profit.... and other stuff like it.... K Eskona, I give up ... You think wars in EVE are one big giant spreadsheet. I think its quite pointless convincing you otherwise. OFC you are wrong you just don't know it.
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:16:00 - [252] Edited by: KIAEddZ on 02/01/2007 15:26:04 See later KIA EVE Home
Eskona Runningstar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:19:00 - [253] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 13:10:25 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Im an outsider and not familiar with the merc contracts, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that after deducting merc payments from the 25 billion station ISS still made a profit.... and other stuff like it.... K Eskona, I give up ... You think wars in EVE are one big giant spreadsheet. I think its quite pointless convincing you otherwise. OFC you are wrong you just don't know it. You dont need to convince me as I never said all wars are just a spreadsheet. However, if a war surpasses a certain boundary, ISK and the accompanying logistics and tactical / strategical decisions to transform ISK into battlefield superiority will be the deciding factor. If you play the territory-claiming game, "just a little pew-pew" has a very small place. Its mostly reserved for pirates and alliances on roadtrips. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way. Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:19:00 - [254] Thread given a good scrubbing. 1) No discussing moderation. You will be warned. 2) No posting with alts. If you are in an NPC corp, or don't have your corporation or alliance tags checked, you will be warned. 3) No trolling. You will be warned. 4) Off- topic posting, and non- constructive posting will also be deleted ( Hi Mom, I'm on page 30!) ( grabs more popcorn) 5) Unfortunately, I had to delete some constructive posts, as they were replies to trolls/alts. Said posts don't make sense when they are left by themselves. My apologies. Please read the forum rules before posting. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected]. PS- If you have to ask yourself more than twice should I post this? it's better not to hit the post button. forum rules

KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:27:00 - [255] Wooooooooaaah Horsey!! ok 9 pages of avid reading, and heres where I'm at. Ignoring the fact that KIA are currently contracted to kill ISS (my opinions have nothing to do with that, isk is isk), I think the situation is very clear. IAC have only 1 intent, this intent was the reason for hostilities from the outset, and this intent is a fairly simple one, and the very basic driver for virtually all conflict in Eve. Monetary gain. (Tyrraxs entire position in that posted convo is one of "pay us or stfu") ISS are a very large fat cash cow. Despite thier more recent beliefs, they cannot PvP to any real effectiveness, and whilst IAC are not the worlds greatest Fleet specialists, they are learning fast, and have a mind set much more suited to PvP. IAC see ISS as isk generators. They have seen a good few small reasons to convert a "peaceful" (i know there are reasons this isn't completely true) neighbour into a tenant, and at last found one worthy of grasping (MC staging out of thier stations) and took the bull by the horns. ISS reacted with force, not expecting the arrival of help for IAC, they called in LV, hired MC Veto, and sent a clear messsage to IAC and anyone that in the future may see them as a soft target. Unfortunately then they got greedy, instead of immediately offering peace when they took a substantial upper hand, they saw an opportunity for a further gain, maybe even the removal of IAC, a very very large mistake. Their members got over confident, bullish and arrogant, and they paid the price for not having the metal to back up thier plans... They have now alienated MC further worsening the situation they are in. IAC are far more suited to arrogance and over confidence, as in a mano et mano situation, they will beat ISS in conflict. BUT.... there is a slight problem. Attacking POS, means deployment of capital fleets, at known times and places. I would doubt VERY much if AAA would be willing to do this for a simple ally. There would be queues of people willing to help destroy a capital fleet, and as such the risk to AAAs fleet would be at best great, at worst suicidal. Lets ALSO not forget that BoB have a big hand in ISS. They gave ECP to them, and there must be a huge ISKy payment going their way for that and their support to ISS. Shareholders.... I expect BoB leadership has quite a few. IAC/AAA Capital fleet destruction at a known time and place... ISS could arrange that with relative ease i expect. I doubt BoB would step in just yet though, not until it looked hopeless for ISS, and its far from that at the moment. IAC are turning the screw hard now, ISS are realising that they are in a real fight now, and are panicking a little. IAC pressure is mounting on ISS.... and ***s are beggining to show. It is my opinion though that the ***s wont cause any sort of flood, and the walls will hold just fine, but none the less the outcome is no longer certain... ISS are beggining to feel the pinch. So where are we at. ISS have offered the bargaining chip, but with 2 months to withdraw..... that was a ridiculous initial offer. The negotiators and planners for ISS are clueless, and have shown themselves to be through out this entire conflict. That offer was never gonna be anything more than a chump offer. Tyrrax saw this, and was overly aggressive in his response. But now IAC are on the verge of making the same mistake ISS made.... If peace is not negotaited in this matter, BOTH sides will lose. ISS cannot be defeated as such, the investors are too large imho. If IAC manage to take back F4R alone, wihtout aid, then that could see their wish of generating isk from ISS become a reality, but personally I think it won't be that easy. Without that the best they can hope for is a PRIVATE one off "bribe", and return of their station in a timescale of more like 7 days, not 7 weeks. cont KIA EVE Home
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:27:00 - [256] Overall, my feeling is that the negotiators and shakers n movers for both sides, are essentially the problem. Arrogance and ego is rife, and when you combine that with a real feeling that your actions are righteouss, you could end up in a conflict that leaves both sides weak and exhausted, and we all know what happens to weak and exhasuted alliances....... I like IAC very much, and ISS idealistic view is to be admired, if i was ask to plump for a "winner" here, I'd go for IAC. If I was asked to plump for a loser... I'd go for both of them. KIA EVE Home
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:31:00 - [257] The fundamental problem here is this; ISS originally intended to take all three stations. AAA prevented the original Coalition from doing this (though it was mainly MC/LV who refused further offensive operations with AAA in the picture, FIX were very up for fighting them). This is a dramatic change of strategy from ISS. It makes sense, it looks like some of ISS's allies are effectively abandoning them, while IAC's allies are known for their willingness to fight, and more importantly their persistance (look at RA). So, in the space of a week, everything has changed. IAC are resurgent, ISS are on the backfoot. What you have to ask yourself, is that if you were IAC, and you know full well that ISS intended to wipe you off the map... well, how accomodating would you be?
Benny Hill Caldari Deceased Inc	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:35:00 - [258] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch I think your heavy handed response made you an enemy for life in IAC. I'd be shocked if they accepted. Now that -A- has Impass it would be nice if they turned their efforts to ISS. I'd like to see you purchase your way out of that one. Ha. -A- will be in Impasse as long as BoB lets them be.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:35:00 - [259] ISK was not IAC's motivation in all this, standings reflecting our feelings was. I just ask for bribes in every single negotiation because I want to be bribed. And as I said in the conversation ISS leaked to the public (not very professional that tsk tsk) we don't like ISS, so without a good reason for us there won't be peace. http://eve.klaki.net/
nickky01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:44:00 - [260] Originally by: Alexandra IAC's message is incoherent at best and absurd at worst. And while they might sleep well knowing they can pull AAA out of a hat, what I don't see right now is AAA stomping down our doors and taking Tycho and Marginis for you. havning fought AAA cap ship fleets...i can honestly say you NEVER know when they are going to pull them out. its a suprise everytime \o/ they dont call them sneaky russians because they always win at hide and seek you know.... ------------------------------------------- Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:53:00 - [261] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk ISK was not IAC's motivation in all this, standings reflecting our feelings was. I just ask for bribes in every single negotiation because I want to be bribed. You know this is the impression I'm getting throughout this saga... IAC are fighting for personal reasons, even emotional reasons... you could say. They just don't like ISS' way of doing things and they are angry... very little do with ISK, same can be said about IAC allies, the motivation is not ISK, its power-broking on a large scale or simply wanting to inconvenience certain parties. ISS on the other hand.. everything they do is ISK motivated, and that includes any allies that may turn up to help them, mercs or shareholder alliances, trying to defeat IAC is ISK motivated and also trying and failing to make peace is also ISK motivated. And in a game like EVE, where the ISK is imaginary but the feelings are not..... hmm.... I don't see the ISS camp having the stamina for the kind of war this is turning out to be.
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:07:00 - [262] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk ISK was not IAC's motivation in all this, standings reflecting our feelings was. I just ask for bribes in every single negotiation because I want to be bribed. I have ran this statement over in my head quite a few times Tyrrax, and I am unable to believe you. I cannot shake the feeling that being ISS landlords was the goal from the outset. Maybe for the grunts you used hatred to motivate, but for the people at the top, the people with directional focus and long term Alliance prosperity in mind, they surely must have more forethought than "Ugh ugh we no likey ISS". IF that isnt the case, and you really are motivated by such wishy washy feelings of dislike, then I would question wether your stomach will see you through, because have no doubts, this conflict if seen through to the end without thought for anythng other than hatred, will leave IAC pretty hollow. Just on a side note, it is my experience that AAA/RA masses are motivated by this ugh ugh emotion. It works for them because at the very top of the tree you have some highly intelligent and articulate leaders, with the future of their alliances very much in mind. Without a mass of capital ships to kill (I have heard Thug on TS lol, hes a "we just wanna kill cap ships" kinda guy), tempting AAA back in when you need them to do the opposite (deploy cap ships for POS killing), and your not under direct threat, is going to cost you. I wander if the price will be something your willing to pay. The next week will be key. Are IAC holding out, squeezing harder and harder to get as much as they can from this deal, or are they really capable of killing pos, taking systems, and as such are ISS in really big trouble.... Tick Tock. (<--- THAT IS MY BLIMMIN CATCH PHRASE, STOP USING IT OR FACE MY LAWYERS) KIA EVE Home
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:07:00 - [263] Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 02/01/2007 16:07:58 Originally by: Gutsani But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. An outpost for the cost of a merc contract? Seems okay to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:23:00 - [264] Originally by: KIAEddZ IF that isnt the case, and you really are motivated by such wishy washy feelings of dislike, then I would question wether your stomach will see you through, because have no doubts, this conflict if seen through to the end without thought for anythng other than hatred, will leave IAC pretty hollow. What makes entities willing to fight or not is a very personal thing Eddz.... yeah sure you have to have the big picture with an economical overview of a situation. But in EVE, there is no motivator like ingame hatred... and as far as alliances are concerned..very often the guys that feel the strongest about things are the leadership... even though they have the big picture in their heads also. But everybody is different ofc.
Xander Magnus Caldari Wolf Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:53:00 - [265] Originally by: Nez Perces ISS on the other hand.. everything they do is ISK motivated, and that includes any allies that may turn up to help them, mercs or shareholder alliances, trying to defeat IAC is ISK motivated and also trying and failing to make peace is also ISK motivated. And in a game like EVE, where the ISK is imaginary but the feelings are not..... hmm.... I don't see the ISS camp having the stamina for the kind of war this is turning out to be. I can imagine that ISS has more motiviation then merely isk, don't forget why they reacted the way they did in the first place. It's their outposts we're talking about, they've build that with more then just isk, namely effort. Don't underestimate ISS in this Nez. BTW Nez, you keep steering this to war, why? Like the response to this offer, you just twist it into something bad and keeping using phrases like: IAC would be an idiot to accept, IAC isn't that stupid, blabla. Let IAC talk for themselve, I for one would greatly respect IAC if they had accepted this offer and had the guts to give in.
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:55:00 - [266] Originally by: Xander Magnus Originally by: Nez Perces ISS on the other hand.. everything they do is ISK motivated, and that includes any allies that may turn up to help them, mercs or shareholder alliances, trying to defeat IAC is ISK motivated and also trying and failing to make peace is also ISK motivated. And in a game like EVE, where the ISK is imaginary but the feelings are not..... hmm.... I don't see the ISS camp having the stamina for the kind of war this is turning out to be. I can imagine that ISS has more motiviation then merely isk, don't forget why they reacted the way they did in the first place. It's their outposts we're talking about, they've build that with more then just isk, namely effort. Don't underestimate ISS in this Nez. BTW Nez, you keep steering this to war, why? Like the response to this offer, you just twist it into something bad and keeping using phrases like: IAC would be an idiot to accept, IAC isn't that stupid, blabla. Let IAC talk for themselve, I for one would greatly respect IAC if they had accepted this offer and had the guts to give in. So how many ISS shares do you own?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:08:00 - [267] Originally by: Xander Magnus Originally by: Nez Perces ISS on the other hand.. everything they do is ISK motivated, and that includes any allies that may turn up to help them, mercs or shareholder alliances, trying to defeat IAC is ISK motivated and also trying and failing to make peace is also ISK motivated. And in a game like EVE, where the ISK is imaginary but the feelings are not..... hmm.... I don't see the ISS camp having the stamina for the kind of war this is turning out to be. I can imagine that ISS has more motiviation then merely isk, don't forget why they reacted the way they did in the first place. It's their outposts we're talking about, they've build that with more then just isk, namely effort. Don't underestimate ISS in this Nez. BTW Nez, you keep steering this to war, why? Like the response to this offer, you just twist it into something bad and keeping using phrases like: IAC would be an idiot to accept, IAC isn't that stupid, blabla. Let IAC talk for themselve, I for one would greatly respect IAC if they had accepted this offer and had the guts to give in. Actually, Nez has stated pretty much the obvious. The only people that don't seem to get it are the ones with investments or some need to be vocal as if their respect mattered to IAC. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Spaja Saist Gallente Void Engineers	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:16:00 - [268] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Serenity Steele Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No Your last chosen diplomat was Tyrrax, so please make sure he posts to clarify your position. Your member corporations office leases expire in 48hrs. At that time, all offices will be permanently on 60 day pre-paid rent to ISS NAP/Friendly corporations. It is in IAC leaderships hands as to whether than includes their member corporations. The sun doesn't shine in certain places on the body. That is where you can shove your offer. You IAC people really need to grow up. You started the war and now you are trying to take the high ground? And the shroud guys are even worse than IAC. Are these the type of people you call friends and fly with. All WOW kiddies pleae go back.
Spaja Saist Gallente Void Engineers	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:18:00 - [269] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:26:44 Originally by: Press Officer Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you Look you will see what you want to see ... as will I, as will whoever reads the forums... Point is Count T's OP does not lead to peace it leads to an escalation of the conflict if that was indeed possible. Which contradicts one of the key things Count T stated in his OP: Originally by: Count Tesassine ISS is not interested in dragging on with this war. We're roleplaying a corporate entity, and as such war is bad for business. So.. either Count T is stupid, or this OP was a subtle lie.... perhaps he is getting better at it.... next time we may not even notice. Or maybe you're just dellusional as usual.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:19:00 - [270] So, ISS proposes to return F4 for free in exchange for a return to pre-war conditions, and IAC rejects that out of hand, in the most insulting way possible, because....? If ISS keeps f4, they're evil expansionists, and if they don't, they're showing weakness. It's fun to watch the spin patrol work their magic -- heads I win, tails you lose! Seriously, are there any grownups among the IAC leadership? What exactly does IAC expect here? Do they have a counter-offer? They start a bogus war from a station one jump away. They get thumped and whine on the boards in the most embarrasing way possible -- Kaylana's "official" whine thread was probably the single most embarrasing thread ever on the COAD forum. The whining stops and the chest-thumping only starts when AAA, who couldn't be bothered to either defend or recover F4, bail IAC out. Not to mention the hundreds of goonies, pirate lackies, and various mercs on the scene. For all IAC's yarring about fighting one on one, they never have fought ISS that way and never intended to. Their intial backstab invasion was in the company of dozens and dozens of pirate lackies, and the goonies were on the scene shortly after. And without their wall of pirates, goonies, mercs and loggoffskis, they'd be toast. What we won't ever see is what IAC can do on its own; they can't risk that. ISS doesn't have the same burden, since they've never boasted the way IAC does here. But ISSN, Praxis, and other groups are stronger than people think. And there are other players involved. Only idiots like Nez Perce think this play has only two acts...
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:21:00 - [271] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 02/01/2007 16:07:58 Originally by: Gutsani But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. An outpost for the cost of a merc contract? Seems okay to me. You aren't a "big picture" person are you? The outpost for a merc contract was only chapter one.
Spaja Saist Gallente Void Engineers	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:27:00 - [272] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. One thing I can't stand for is hypocrisy mascaraded as innocence.... A) Its a genuine offer. >>>>>>>> no its not, you knew the answer before hand, they already said NO B) It's posted here because we want all IAC member to be aware. >>>>>> you want to colour IAC's leadership as irresponsable and belligerent.. i.e drive a wedge between IAC top brass and the rank and file C) Its an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. >>>>>>> No, its a threat mascaraded as an opportunity, you can enter dialogue with IAC at any time, just open a private convo.. what you wanted to do is force them to enter dialogue by exposing a deal which they alredy refused and which seems reasonable on the face of it... but that IAC will not accept for some reason or another.. you don't want dialogue you want IAC to bend over and take what you will give them... This was a "Who's the daddy?" post......there is nothing wrong with that, but don't play the innocent card. Its fooling nobody. A) It's still legitamite even if IAC's leadership B) They are irrisponsible and belligerant. Look at how their members have acted in this forum alone. They started the war and when they were loosing they had to find the lowlifes of eve to bail them out. c) Posting this publicly just reinforces to the masses what a bunch of idiots the IAC leadership are.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:28:00 - [273] Originally by: Smoking Mirror So, ISS proposes to return F4 for free in exchange for a return to pre-war conditions, and IAC rejects that out of hand, in the most insulting way possible, because....? If ISS keeps f4, they're evil expansionists, and if they don't, they're showing weakness. It's fun to watch the spin patrol work their magic -- heads I win, tails you lose! Seriously, are there any grownups among the IAC leadership? What exactly does IAC expect here? Do they have a counter-offer? They start a bogus war from a station one jump away. They get thumped and whine on the boards in the most embarrasing way possible -- Kaylana's "official" whine thread was probably the single most embarrasing thread ever on the COAD forum. The whining stops and the chest-thumping only starts when AAA, who couldn't be bothered to either defend or recover F4, bail IAC out. Not to mention the hundreds of goonies, pirate lackies, and various mercs on the scene. For all IAC's yarring about fighting one on one, they never have fought ISS that way and never intended to. Their intial backstab invasion was in the company of dozens and dozens of pirate lackies, and the goonies were on the scene shortly after. And without their wall of pirates, goonies, mercs and loggoffskis, they'd be toast. What we won't ever see is what IAC can do on its own; they can't risk that. ISS doesn't have the same burden, since they've never boasted the way IAC does here. But ISSN, Praxis, and other groups are stronger than people think. And there are other players involved. Only idiots like Nez Perce think this play has only two acts... Sticks and Stones. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
NITROX UpAllNightGaming Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:29:00 - [274] Opens thread ........ HAS IAC done anything yet apart from Yap Yap rubbish ....... No Closes thread and wait for6 months
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:29:00 - [275] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 02/01/2007 16:07:58 Originally by: Gutsani But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. An outpost for the cost of a merc contract? Seems okay to me. With the help of LV/FIX/TYC/UK, you certainly could have taken F4 without hiring MC, with the way things panned out. So I call it a waste of money. I was helping to run the Allied logistic operation, we spent about 15bn ISK on Isotopes, Stront, and POS alone. The extra we spent on MC was not needed. To remind you, they provided about 20% of the capitals, and 10% of the support. Now AAA are threatening to be in the picture, they run away can you can't get them back on offensive operations for any sensible amount of ISK. They call it a business decision, I call it fear.
Maria Ravenwind Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:41:00 - [276] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: ReaperOfSly Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 02/01/2007 16:07:58 Originally by: Gutsani But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. An outpost for the cost of a merc contract? Seems okay to me. With the help of LV/FIX/TYC/UK, you certainly could have taken F4 without hiring MC, with the way things panned out. So I call it a waste of money. I was helping to run the Allied logistic operation, we spent about 15bn ISK on Isotopes, Stront, and POS alone. The extra we spent on MC was not needed. To remind you, they provided about 20% of the capitals, and 10% of the support. Now AAA are threatening to be in the picture, they run away can you can't get them back on offensive operations for any sensible amount of ISK. They call it a business decision, I call it fear. Oh dear God, for the love of humanity and everything right in the world, please, do not start on this topic again! I think 28 pages was enough.
Frools The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:47:00 - [277] Originally by: Smoking Mirror For all IAC's yarring about fighting one on one, they never have fought ISS that way and never intended to. Their intial backstab invasion was in the company of dozens and dozens of pirate lackies, and the goonies were on the scene shortly after. And without their wall of pirates, goonies, mercs and loggoffskis, they'd be toast. What we won't ever see is what IAC can do on its own; they can't risk that. ISS doesn't have the same burden, since they've never boasted the way IAC does here. IAC were camping ISS into their own stations the first few days all on their own, we got up a little fleet to go see if there was something to shoot, saw ISS was hiding and went off to find something to shoot in curse IAC were hardly hiding behind us or anyone else for that matter i think there were a few Red Skull/FZN around but not until a couple of days in, not sure what other 'pirate lackeys' you could be thinking of and IAC hired no mercs at all i think you might be confused, its ISS that never fights on their own and has to hire mercs and pirate lackeys to hide behind also, PWYM
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:06:00 - [278] Originally by: Frools i think you might be confused, its ISS that never fights on their own and has to hire mercs and pirate lackeys to hide behind ISS aren't hypocrites about that. IAC are. That's the difference. Again, what is IAC's plan for this war? Is there a counter-offer? Can the various leadership factions of IAC get together and figure that out? Or I guess the taking of ISS outposts was the plan all along, despite the lies and hedgings otherwise?
Crozon Crozon Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:07:00 - [279] Originally by: Frools i think you might be confused, its ISS that never fights on their own and has to hire mercs and pirate lackeys to hide behind What part of Industrial Alliance do you not understand? I don't think ISS has ever been ashamed of having to rely on mercs to do their fighting for them. ISS wasn't designed for PvP.
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:09:00 - [280] IAC Undocked yet ...... /me waits for another 28 pages
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:15:00 - [281] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: ReaperOfSly Edited by: ReaperOfSly on 02/01/2007 16:07:58 Originally by: Gutsani But on the same note, you guys did the same with MC, and you never realised your mistake. And see what that brought you. An outpost for the cost of a merc contract? Seems okay to me. With the help of LV/FIX/TYC/UK, you certainly could have taken F4 without hiring MC, with the way things panned out. So I call it a waste of money. I was helping to run the Allied logistic operation, we spent about 15bn ISK on Isotopes, Stront, and POS alone. The extra we spent on MC was not needed. To remind you, they provided about 20% of the capitals, and 10% of the support. Now AAA are threatening to be in the picture, they run away can you can't get them back on offensive operations for any sensible amount of ISK. They call it a business decision, I call it fear. Again; When are YOU going to fight aAa? When are YOU going to front the Capitals needed? Until you have put up 20-40b on the line, fought and hopefully won you shouldnt really be talking. And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. So get over this already. You simply have no idea on how fight alliances like aAa beyond a simple skirmish. Bah, I hate social engineering, I see it and keep falling for it. Cheers, Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:19:00 - [282] Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:20:09 Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. So get over this already. Actually ET reminded you that you have only fought them defensively, with all the advantages which go with that. The problem is you are scared of AAA, think you will lose an offensive fight against them, thus wish to charge ridiculous amounts of ISK in advance to cover losing everything. If you had the confidence that you would beat them, that wouldnt be a problem, would it. PS - I'm glad you agree with my sentiment that hiring MC to help take F4 was a waste of money and could have easiliy been done without you
Bach Caldari Tyrell Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:23:00 - [283] Originally by: Frools Originally by: Smoking Mirror For all IAC's yarring about fighting one on one, they never have fought ISS that way and never intended to. Their intial backstab invasion was in the company of dozens and dozens of pirate lackies, and the goonies were on the scene shortly after. And without their wall of pirates, goonies, mercs and loggoffskis, they'd be toast. What we won't ever see is what IAC can do on its own; they can't risk that. ISS doesn't have the same burden, since they've never boasted the way IAC does here. IAC were camping ISS into their own stations the first few days all on their own, we got up a little fleet to go see if there was something to shoot, saw ISS was hiding and went off to find something to shoot in curse IAC were hardly hiding behind us or anyone else for that matter i think there were a few Red Skull/FZN around but not until a couple of days in, not sure what other 'pirate lackeys' you could be thinking of and IAC hired no mercs at all i think you might be confused, its ISS that never fights on their own and has to hire mercs and pirate lackeys to hide behind also, PWYM The main thing about these threads is that everyone is seeing them as they want to see them. The realities are far simpler and two sides of the same coin. IAC declared a war vs. ISS and maybe it should have been left at that. ISS collected up a coalition of friends and mercs and escalation occurred. IAC sold they're souls in a sense and enlisted the help of RAGOON, TCF and eventually AAA. You can debate ISS hiring mercs all you like the truth is both sides made they're most significant moves thus far on the shoulders and backs of others. I doubt Tyraxx or any of the less emotional thinking IAC are patting themselves on the back for turning the war around. They know they owe a debt to the reds. There are no angels in this one and both sides have been defined by they're help. Again, it may have been better to have left it IAC vs. ISS but there you go. Funny thing about Eve. Todays enemy often becomes tommarrows ally and vice versa. The current position of that conflict has been defined by many factors. One of which is this board. Its often as much of a weapon as ships and guns. We were only a few votes shy of calling ON the attack of JBY. Many of us, myself included only saw AAA as evening the odds and saw no reason to back off. If they came to play so be it. Today the IAC cheerleading squad of former members who have moved on to other corps yet seem to still forum up to the IAC causes are singing praises of ISS' doom. It makes it look like more than one corp is on the forums backing the IAC. About 2 months ago I was talking with a CDC leader. Of many topics one discussed was taking out IAC outposts and how much stront would be required. Today you see former IAC players in CDC publically backing IAC yet supposedly loyal to CDC. The spin of these threads abound and from all angles. IAC aint dead. ISS aint dead. There are now so many outside interests involved that it can all change tommarrow just as easily. Its Southern Eve politics and there are no angels here.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:26:00 - [284] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:20:09 Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. So get over this already. Actually ET reminded you that you have only fought them defensively, with all the advantages which go with that. The problem is you are scared of AAA, think you will lose an offensive fight against them, thus wish to charge ridiculous amounts of ISK in advance to cover losing everything. If you had the confidence that you would beat them, that wouldnt be a problem, would it. PS - I'm glad you agree with my sentiment that hiring MC to help take F4 was a waste of money and could have easiliy been done without you You don't often get to watch someone cutting off their nose to spite their own face -- over and over and over again. Reading Butter Dog posts is like slowing down by highway traffic accidents: interesting, but grotesque.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:27:00 - [285] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:20:09 Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. So get over this already. Actually ET reminded you that you have only fought them defensively, with all the advantages which go with that. The problem is you are scared of AAA, think you will lose an offensive fight against them, thus wish to charge ridiculous amounts of ISK in advance to cover losing everything. If you had the confidence that you would beat them, that wouldnt be a problem, would it. PS - I'm glad you agree with my sentiment that hiring MC to help take F4 was a waste of money and could have easiliy been done without you I didn't know that Cruel Intentions was part of the MC, oh can you point out where Lowa agreed with you and didn't your arguments get shot down enough in the last thread?
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:30:00 - [286] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:20:09 Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. So get over this already. Actually ET reminded you that you have only fought them defensively, with all the advantages which go with that. The problem is you are scared of AAA, think you will lose an offensive fight against them, thus wish to charge ridiculous amounts of ISK in advance to cover losing everything. If you had the confidence that you would beat them, that wouldnt be a problem, would it. PS - I'm glad you agree with my sentiment that hiring MC to help take F4 was a waste of money and could have easiliy been done without you Hehe, quoted to much yes. Well, you are right ofc. And everyone else is wrong and their opinion does not matter or should ever be considered the right thing. In your mind. So what both you and me are doing is really retarded tbfh. But just for the sake of it, when are you going to fight aAa, you seem to have the confidence. Anyway, I realized I didnt give you any praise for actually delivering that PM from Count so: Props, I was in doubt but sure enough there it was. Cheers, Lowa - will not speak about this again. I hope. What if the truth was something else?
Kalamurii Izanthor Soldiers Of Darkness Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:30:00 - [287] Return to pre-war conditions??? Pre-war conditions is what started this war, therefore, a return will only lead to more problems and further war. That has been stated by IAC in the negotiations with ISS, they however refuse to address our issues, thats the reason for the war. A return to "pre-war" conditions is not favorable, hence the war.
Caesium Amarr Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:35:00 - [288] Edited by: Caesium on 02/01/2007 18:35:49 so what are your issues? market pvp? you refuse our offer, don't have one of your own, and then say we won't address your issues? we changed our charter to address your issues. I'm sorry but we can't help you with that extra chromosome you have. Caesium Lyrus Associates
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:40:00 - [289] Originally by: Hans Roaming I didn't know that Cruel Intentions was part of the MC, oh can you point out where Lowa agreed with you and didn't your arguments get shot down enough in the last thread? So you think that without MC, F4 would not have fallen? PS - none of my arguement got shot down, my main claims carried proof, and a few MC forum warriors shouting 'omg nub, you fight AAA then' doesnt make you right.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:48:00 - [290] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Can the various leadership factions of IAC get together and figure that out? Or I guess the taking of ISS outposts was the plan all along, despite the lies and hedgings otherwise? WTF are you rabbling about. IAC leadership is 100% behind Tyrrax. We were not going to bargain for F4 before they approached Tyrrax. James knew that, I knew it, the executive board and directors of IAC knew it and the count and his cohort steele knew it. And according to James he posted our chats to the ISS leadership boards, which I made VERY clear about the matter. Every time a chicken behind an alt + dummy corp post to try and attack the IAC leadership you are just reaffirming why we are in this war. ISS could never control our actions in catch as neighbors and they have hated IAC leadership because of it. They knew hostilities was going to happen and they did nothing but be arrogant and condescending towards us when we tried to work together. When you have friends like LV a few jumps away you get a bit arrogant in your dealings with a smaller fry like us. Or... you atleast opperate under that assumption. Until you find yourself burried balls deep in a political nightmare that exposes the very political nature of your alliance. 30 minutes of the Count's sleep cycle could have potentially lengthened this war's time table and allow calmer heads to negotiate something more fruitful. I guess when you have a Titan working for you the arrogance meter is off teh scale. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Carth Jared Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:50:00 - [291] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:42:21 Originally by: Hans Roaming I didn't know that Cruel Intentions was part of the MC, oh can you point out where Lowa agreed with you and didn't your arguments get shot down enough in the last thread? So you think that without MC, F4 would not have fallen? PS - none of my arguement got shot down, my main claims carried proof, and a few MC forum warriors shouting 'omg nub, you fight AAA then' doesnt make you right. PS - that said, I agree with Lowa's final sentiment, we look pretty retarded covering old ground like this... we've all said what we wanted to say. Its natural MC won't agree with me, and you know why I think what I do. I'm prepared to leave it at that for the sake of not totally derailing the thread, if you are. Maybe you shouldnt have derailed this post in the first place huh. But please, make a seperate thread where you ignore all our touchy questions and other sane posts from neutral parties.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:51:00 - [292] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:42:21 Originally by: Hans Roaming I didn't know that Cruel Intentions was part of the MC, oh can you point out where Lowa agreed with you and didn't your arguments get shot down enough in the last thread? So you think that without MC, F4 would not have fallen? PS - none of my arguement got shot down, my main claims carried proof, and a few MC forum warriors shouting 'omg nub, you fight AAA then' doesnt make you right. PS - that said, I agree with Lowa's final sentiment, we look pretty retarded covering old ground like this... we've all said what we wanted to say. Its natural MC won't agree with me, and you know why I think what I do. I'm prepared to leave it at that for the sake of not totally derailing the thread, if you are. So lets see, first you say that the first contract via IAC had no client, we say it did but confidential, KIA also had a client so really that favors our version does it not. Second you say we failed our contracts, everyone else says different and Verone who you felt was neutral enough to check out your PM also backed up our version of taking the first system and going on from there. Your proof for everything was a PM from Count venting at one battle not being fought how he'd of liked. The little thread we're in now you refer to Lowa as if he's in the MC and that he agrees with you that hiring the MC was a waste of money when he wrote no such thing. I raise the conjecture that the rest of your opinions have the same accuracy, if you want to shout out how bad the MC is then start a thread on the subject.
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:55:00 - [293] Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. Not exactly. With all due respect to MC the FIXoutpostFight didn't involve enough MC to say they actualy fought(fight?) us. They had carriers at POS or in deep safes cloaked and sent in a few fighters. But again, they were there just to help out in a rush the FIX alliance. Back to topic now. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:00:00 - [294] Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 19:01:56 Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 18:42:21 Originally by: Hans Roaming I didn't know that Cruel Intentions was part of the MC, oh can you point out where Lowa agreed with you and didn't your arguments get shot down enough in the last thread? So you think that without MC, F4 would not have fallen? PS - none of my arguement got shot down, my main claims carried proof, and a few MC forum warriors shouting 'omg nub, you fight AAA then' doesnt make you right. PS - that said, I agree with Lowa's final sentiment, we look pretty retarded covering old ground like this... we've all said what we wanted to say. Its natural MC won't agree with me, and you know why I think what I do. I'm prepared to leave it at that for the sake of not totally derailing the thread, if you are. So lets see, first you say that the first contract via IAC had no client, we say it did but confidential, KIA also had a client so really that favors our version does it not. Second you say we failed our contracts, everyone else says different and Verone who you felt was neutral enough to check out your PM also backed up our version of taking the first system and going on from there. Your proof for everything was a PM from Count venting at one battle not being fought how he'd of liked. The little thread we're in now you refer to Lowa as if he's in the MC and that he agrees with you that hiring the MC was a waste of money when he wrote no such thing. I raise the conjecture that the rest of your opinions have the same accuracy, if you want to shout out how bad the MC is then start a thread on the subject. You shouldnt have replied, tbh. 1) I claimed I was informed by someone, who had spoken directly with Seleene, that there was no employer for the first Prohibition contract. I told you my source. He did not deny this. So, I'd done all I had to do to back up my stated believe. The onus was then on MC to provide evidence of an employer - which you will not do. Thats your choice, but don't expect me to believe you just because you say so. With one of your ex-leaders claiming that fabrication and spin is part of your business, and seeing first hand how you manipulated the Second Prohibition contract to seem like a victory, my confidence in your ability to be truthful is very low. 2) The contract with ISS was for all three outposts. Veto were hired for very different reasons to you (harrassement of traffic etc), so their contract had different goals. Even certain members of MC have admitted this, so I really have no idea whay you are beating this particular dead horse. Oh, no... you knocked 9 POS in JBY into reinforced for 'fun', right? But you just keep on telling yourself how uber and faultless MC is, depsite pretty overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying you arent good - I think you are. I'm just pointing out that you failed to complete the full contract for all three outposts, that you spun F4 to make it look like you were the lynchpins when it could have been easily done without you, and that you refuse to engage AAA 'offensively' (key word there).
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:05:00 - [295] Originally by: Omeega Originally by: Lowa And again MC has already fought aAa as said by both me and ET. Not exactly. With all due respect to MC the FIXoutpostFight didn't involve enough MC to say they actualy fought(fight?) us. They had carriers at POS or in deep safes cloaked and sent in a few fighters. But again, they were there just to help out in a rush the FIX alliance. Back to topic now. We came down in other ships later, it was a long day with a lot of different aspects.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:20:00 - [296] Butter dog, if you feel so strongly about everything you can start your own thread rather than derail others.

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:36:00 - [297] Cleaned some more..... forum rules

Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:38:00 - [298] So 2/3 of the thread was spam and stuff? Wow thank god i didn't read it upto now
The Beatnuts Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:39:00 - [299] Originally by: Seleene Originally by: Tirg Cleaned some more..... Dude, seriously! Loosen up a bit. Erm just recieved a forum Ban. Great, my life is ruined, thanks Seleene - that's all your fault. <za preved pizda>
Butter Dog Gallente The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:16:00 - [300] Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/01/2007 20:18:17 Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 02/01/2007 19:28:03 Originally by: Butter Dog snip- troll remarks removed- Tirg It's one thing to throw about biased opinions and such, but I publicly challenge you to provide proof that I post on this forum with any character other than my main. Obviously you must have some evidence to make such a claim. Please state your suspicions and clear this up so that I can be properly shamed. Although the comment was removed, and I'll probably get a ban for so much as replying... it was actually said in jest. (I should have added a '' or something)
Reknaw A'ru Minmatar 11th Hussars	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:34:00 - [301] Edited by: Reknaw A''ru on 02/01/2007 20:34:35 I would suggest that those believing ISS to be the peacful entity it claims to be and that Counts original post was one of peace, can I just ask that you remember what Butterdog has said many times. ISS wanted MC to be contracted to take down all of IAC's outposts. This thread was not started for an offer of peace it was started as a PR stunt, plain and simple. After already recieving a response to the negative in a convo ISS leadership elected to "announce" this offer then add details of a private convo. All in the name of good PR. Well I'm not buying it, and to me it demonstrates the lengths of deciet(sp?) and manipulation that ISS will go to. Remember, IAC initiated a reset of standings not a full declaration of war. This gave ISS the perfect oppurtunity (read excuse) to close IAC down for good. They went for it and it looked as though it was going to work for them. Now if they had just left it and gone for shooty-shooty all this may be resolved by now. However their plans of domination has now back fired, they're actually in quite a hole and they know it (even though it appears ISS hold the bargaining chips). They're attempting to back down in a good light, unfortunatley the IAC members realises what ISS are about and that ISS does not want IAC to be their neighbours. This to me is an intresting conflict, which could either just peter out to nothing or serve as a catalyst to something much more massive. Intresting days and months are ahead for sure.
Ranura Eynara Amarr Mayven Omni Gestalt	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:43:00 - [302] AAA arrived... MC mysteriously vanished Hmm ... sure i predicted this in another thread somewhere recently, will have to dig it out later Enjoy Spanking ISS please. I assume that RA/Goon joining up with IAC/AAA(/KIA?) would be most agreeable also! Death to ISS
Zrevak Ashek RONA Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:46:00 - [303] Originally by: ollobrains i dont think -a- would want to take on ISS with MC in their chequebook ( MC do a great job btw) but thats the way i see it MC can't stand up to AAA. They would be WTFBBQ'ed if they went head to head. AAA can bring as large a capital fleet as the MC. More importanly, AAA could bring a competent fleet to actually support their capitals couse of their numbers advantage. Tbh, I dont think AAA fears MC in the slightest ISS will be overrun soon enough, shareholders or no shareholders..
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:58:00 - [304] Originally by: Reknaw A'ru Remember, IAC initiated a reset of standings not a full declaration of war. Is this what IAC leaders are telling their members now? IAC didn't just reset standings IAC INVADED ISS OUTPOST SYSTEMS WITH A LARGE FLEET. Beyond that, they threatened ISS stations. It was IAC who started the war and it was IAC who put POS fighting on the agenda. To say anything else is a lie. But we've seen plenty of lies from IAC. Their leadership is, to put it politely, erratic. It's clear from their insulting and juvenile response to the OP that IAC leadership intended to conquer ISS outposts all along if they could, and simply lied about that here and to their own members.
Goodtime Girl Amarr Anger Management	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:05:00 - [305] IAC undocked yet or still only managing to fight on the forums Still docked I see .... back in 28 pages.
Alex Under Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:08:00 - [306] Originally by: Nez Perces This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see. Having read all 9 pages, this pretty much sums up the gist of it. So ISS made an public offer for everyone in the EVE Community to read about it, and IAC have come out and publicly denounced the offer and said that they wish to continue fighting. Seems to me like there isn't much else to discuss. "...Amateurs do it until they get it right, Professionals do it until they can't get it wrong..."
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:28:00 - [307] Originally by: Ranura Eynara AAA arrived... MC mysteriously vanished Those that are saying that we moved out or mysteriously vanished the moment AAA moved their cap ships into the area are completely and utterly wrong. We remained in and around F4R well over a week after AAA logged their cap ships in that area. Why do people like you and Butter Dog just make these things up and then state them as fact? Having an opinion (whether it be based in fact or not) is one thing. What actually happened is another thing entirely. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:41:00 - [308] Who in MC do i convo for not posted killmails on your killboard? =/ ------
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:46:00 - [309] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Originally by: Reknaw A'ru Remember, IAC initiated a reset of standings not a full declaration of war. Is this what IAC leaders are telling their members now? IAC didn't just reset standings IAC INVADED ISS OUTPOST SYSTEMS WITH A LARGE FLEET. Please, before saying something wrong check the history of the affair. We entered ZXIC 5-10 minutes after the announcement of hostilities. We entered with 30-40 people. We entered in FRIGS, now I know IAC doesn't hold much of an image as a pvp alliance but surely we are not so stupid as to siege an outpost system with t1 and t2 frigs. We only entered the system with Battleships after ISS showed their willingness to fight, so we obliged, grabbed our BS from next door, and proceeded to have a good ol' slug fest on the KDF gate in ZXIC. After the fight was over, we voluntarily left system. We did not camp your gates, we went back to F4. The next day saw much of the same. This is not meant to be a whining, "omg we were wronged" post. It is however enough in my eyes to make you shut up, and if thats all this accomplishes then I, have won the forums. --------------------------------------------
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:51:00 - [310] After ISS's wonderful response to a question I had about lost ships plan on see'ing me up there blowing the heck out of them as well. This is my thoughts and not alliances, but I am sure some of the alliance will follow up there with me. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:51:00 - [311] Originally by: Crucifier Who in MC do i convo for not posted killmails on your killboard? =/ Not my place to say really but any CEO would work. /Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Goodtime Girl Amarr Anger Management	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:53:00 - [312] Edited by: Goodtime Girl on 02/01/2007 21:53:28 Quote: We entered ZXIC 5-10 minutes after the announcement of hostilities. We entered with 30-40 people. We entered in FRIGS, now I know IAC doesn't hold much of an image as a pvp alliance but surely we are not so stupid as to siege an outpost system with t1 and t2 frigs. Lots of "We" but its funny its "thier" fault
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:58:00 - [313] This would be a perfect time for d2 & co to retake ec-p8r.
Julien Derida Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:09:00 - [314] Originally by: Crucifier Who in MC do i convo for not posted killmails on your killboard? =/ If you're referring to the ones from the FIX outpost conflict, they haven't all been moved over from our old killboard yet. We're missing quite a few kills as well as losses. ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:11:00 - [315] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Smoking Mirror Originally by: Reknaw A'ru Remember, IAC initiated a reset of standings not a full declaration of war. Is this what IAC leaders are telling their members now? IAC didn't just reset standings IAC INVADED ISS OUTPOST SYSTEMS WITH A LARGE FLEET. Please, before saying something wrong check the history of the affair. We entered ZXIC 5-10 minutes after the announcement of hostilities. We entered with 30-40 people. We entered in FRIGS, now I know IAC doesn't hold much of an image as a pvp alliance but surely we are not so stupid as to siege an outpost system with t1 and t2 frigs. We only entered the system with Battleships after ISS showed their willingness to fight, so we obliged, grabbed our BS from next door, and proceeded to have a good ol' slug fest on the KDF gate in ZXIC. After the fight was over, we voluntarily left system. We did not camp your gates, we went back to F4. The next day saw much of the same. This is not meant to be a whining, "omg we were wronged" post. It is however enough in my eyes to make you shut up, and if thats all this accomplishes then I, have won the forums. You, the official spokesman and declarer of war for IAC stated Just to clarify a few things for our members and others. We are not at this moment actively engageing ISS's stations or POS's. More fights like the one we ad to day are what we seek, though time will only tell who will own what station when. That was on the 11th. Check when MC arrived.
The Beatnuts Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:47:00 - [316] Originally by: Tovarishch the moment AAA moved their cap ships into the area [...] over a week after AAA logged their cap ships out in the vicinity. Anyone saying otherwise is guessing... because they know nothing of what actually took place. Period. We did not bring a cap fleet. <za preved pizda>
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:51:00 - [317] If IAC's allies are going to use their capitals to attack ISS POSes, why have they not done so already? I think the answer to that is that IAC is not of sufficent value to expose a capital fleet to potential heavy losses. If IAC's allies won't use their capitals to attack ISS POSes, and IAC does not have enough capitals to do it themselves... What reason short of absolute and utter suicidal stupidity do they have for not taking the peace offer? My opinion is that the only thing IAC gets by prolonging the war is an invitation for disaster to strike them. As soon as AAA has their attention drawn elsewhere for even a nano-second, MC will attack and IAC will be dead and the war will be old news. Thumbing your nose at a stayed headsman while you dance under his axe is pure foolishness in my opinion.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:55:00 - [318] Originally by: Dr Ming If IAC's allies are going to use their capitals to attack ISS POSes, why have they not done so already? I think the answer to that is that IAC is not of sufficent value to expose a capital fleet to potential heavy losses. If IAC's allies won't use their capitals to attack ISS POSes, and IAC does not have enough capitals to do it themselves... What reason short of absolute and utter suicidal stupidity do they have for not taking the peace offer? My opinion is that the only thing IAC gets by prolonging the war is an invitation for disaster to strike them. As soon as AAA has their attention drawn elsewhere for even a nano-second, MC will attack and IAC will be dead and the war will be old news. Thumbing your nose at a stayed headsman while you dance under his axe is pure foolishness in my opinion. I'm sorry, but who are you? I don't see anything resembling ISS or IAC in your alliance ticker. Oh, thats right. Your one of One of these people. The reasons for not stageing attacks on ISS POS's are our own. Rome wasn't built in a day you know. --------------------------------------------
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:01:00 - [319] would someone please hurry up and take IAC outposts so that other parties can bring stability to a constantly engaged south
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:09:00 - [320] Originally by: ollobrains would someone please hurry up and take IAC outposts so that other parties can bring stability to a constantly engaged south You must be an iss shareholder.
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:20:00 - [321] Originally by: Graalum Originally by: ollobrains would someone please hurry up and take IAC outposts so that other parties can bring stability to a constantly engaged south You must be an iss shareholder. Nope, he's just an idiot
The Anointed Caldari StarBug Industries	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:35:00 - [322] Back on topic, I can understand why IAC wouldnt want to take the 'peace offer'. At the end of the day its just as much of a statement by ISS that they are the ones in the position to negotiate as it is an actual peace offer. I'd Like to know what IAC would accept as terms for peace, although im not naive enough to think they would disclose it to everyone on these forums. Taking the offer, to me would be perceived as loosing. A more acceptable offer would have been if neither side had anything to bargain with at all, and it was just a 'cant we all just get along' style offer. At the end of the day ISS has the most to loose from all of this, if they were to actually loose a station, then the change in the way potential investors viewed the level of risk involved with any new IPO could have far reaching consequences. Its in ISS's intrests to either make peace, or to make a decisive effort to get rid of any and all of IAC. Justnow the market probably looks like its doing better than ever, but I would suggest thats just through people replacing losses etc. What happens once they can no longer afford to do so? And if people beleive that IAC dont have the ability to actually comitt capital ships to this fight, then was there any reason to fear them taking ISS stations in the first place? Having regular, fun fights on your doorstep, when you reap the benefits from increased market activity sounded like a manageble situation to me.
Beringe Caldari Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:37:00 - [323] I, for one, would like to hear about this alleged "bad treatment" of IAC by the ISS. From where I stand, IAC is simply refusing to bend their pride after losing a war they started. Past grievances keep being brought up, but not elaborated on. ------------------------------------------- "Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Clipparius Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:47:00 - [324] IAC complained that ISS were selling shuttles above the market price - that was their reason as far as anyone can see
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:11:00 - [325] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Kaylana Syi Hell No /signed. Maybe we will let you keep EC. if you take EC can i still mine there? ------------ [orange]Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or mailto:mo
SeckelitE ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:35:00 - [326] Originally by: Graalum This would be a perfect time for d2 & co to retake ec-p8r. pls leave D2 out of this thread -------------------------------------------- the only thing humans make it perfect is to self distruct
Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:04:00 - [327] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Graalum Originally by: ollobrains would someone please hurry up and take IAC outposts so that other parties can bring stability to a constantly engaged south You must be an iss shareholder. Nope, he's just an idiot I miss killing you in Yehaba ollo...that and I miss you getting away from us as well. You are the most polite victim I've ever met. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Jim Lovell Gallente Darkblade Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:27:00 - [328] Well `im the IAC Mascot and I dont know what the F*** going on , i just follow and shoot :
Caleb Paine Infinite Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:15:00 - [329] There's 2 options; - shoot stuff till your eyes bleed and one of the 2 will be crying, where (as it stands) it will be IAC who is doing the crying. - come to the conclusion that things might look good from a pewpew point of view, but are looking rather bad from an alliance/outpost point of view so accept this as a fact, take the epeen shrinkage with some pride and negotiate a peace which will actually ensure IAC keeps in business. As it is right now there's a lot of whining, he said/she said and people going to great lengths to keept this war fueled for their own fun/reasons. The less PVP minded IAC aren't happy and get the shaft from the more PVP minded in their alliance. IAC started it, IAC was purposely (perhaps in jeste, but some things you shouldn't do in jeste, it's a bad business decision and I'd hope alliance leaders/spokesmen would understand that little fact) vague about it being an outpost war or not. Right now things aren't looking so hot for IAC and the whining and pointing fingers to others it just embarassing. Accept the fact that you misjudged the situation and take it like a man (but make sure the MGRL isn't in system), prolonging things won't be in either's interest but IAC doesn't even have a pair while ISS holds a flush. Either call and hope to bluff or fold. --------------------------------- INFINITE TECHNOLOGIES We provide solutions for your problems Contact us on our forums or ingame
Frools The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:36:00 - [330] heh and i thought you had more of a clue than your average ISS member Caleb, especially as you've left guess i was wrong
Caleb Paine Infinite Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:39:00 - [331] I do. --------------------------------- INFINITE TECHNOLOGIES We provide solutions for your problems Contact us on our forums or ingame
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:56:00 - [332] Originally by: Caleb Paine stuff Lots of mention of the word business. I thought it was ISS who was the business entity? As for the less pvp minded getting shafted, I have a feeling it's the less pvp minded who got **ed off first with ISS (y'know, the whole market pvp thing and such - no matter how much you think its a **ty reason it's still a reason); and I know for a fact a lot of the IAC members I knew from before who were... less PVP orientated shall we say, are now some of the most enthusiastic fighters there
Cicilus Hadrican Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:44:00 - [333] Edited by: Cicilus Hadrican on 03/01/2007 14:53:10 Edited by: Cicilus Hadrican on 03/01/2007 14:51:55 Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Caleb Paine stuff Lots of mention of the word business. I thought it was ISS who was the business entity? As for the less pvp minded getting shafted, I have a feeling it's the less pvp minded who got **ed off first with ISS (y'know, the whole market pvp thing and such - no matter how much you think its a ty reason it's still a reason); and I know for a fact a lot of the IAC members I knew from before who were... less PVP orientated shall we say, are now some of the most enthusiastic fighters there Ok this stupid "Market pvp" keeps being brought up and I'll clarify the stupid meaning and why its not that stupid or at least a reason for the name. During the first Prohibition. ISS and IAC had a decent market with a decent array of ships and mods on their markets. Though I'll quickly agree that ISS'es markets were better stocked and IAC seems like it was always missing Battleships on its market lol. It seemed that right as the siege started. ISS and IAC markets bottemed out, everything was taken off or bought out. Then "I" noticed some of our ships we were sellings where back on the g-7 market but for insane prices. (180 mil Raven anyone? since I complained about that damn ship almost everyday cause I needed it bad lol) "I" pointed this out to DHB Foo and other alliance heads, as well as some other guys were saying they noticed this too. Not only that, other guys confirmed some of their ships sold were bought by ISS during some suspicious times. I think "Market PVP" is sorta a lame-term but its a very trecherous game to play either way. Now I'm not accusing ISS solely of doing this, its been confirmed others have as well, it is a pretty ingenious plan. I believe, "I", that it was a huge piece of evidence that made us think ISS, or a ISS affiliated wanted us out of g-7 for the first Prohibition. And hearing about ISS wanting to uproot us from all three stations instead of one makes me think that just as much... /me pulls the tinfoil hat down harder OOOO and fun fact. I remember moving down to RNF as a new corp in IAC and we were fighting the CCC. In fact if my memory serves me correctly, Umbra Con, with Tyrax as their lead, was a hated enemy to us. (I remember Tyrax and Effei Glooms ego would ** some of the members in IAC off bad lol) so those that are whispering GH-SC. Well then its a new plan only hatched a couple of months ago... [Edited cuse I kantz readz oar speltz]
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:56:00 - [334] Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 03/01/2007 15:12:54 Are you guys actually serious with this nonsense? Good lord. If ISS is trying to sell Ravens for 180mil, then make some and sell for less -- but still at a profit. It's called competition. Hello? Every time there's an issue like that in the market, that's not a problem, that's opportunity. Unbelievable stuff. Name a "market pvp" scenario, and I'll explain to you how you can make money on it yourself. Does no one there understand what a market IS? I just assumed the price of shuttles thing was some inside joke. As for this: Quote: I believe, "I", that it was a huge piece of evidence that made us think ISS, or a ISS affiliated wanted us out of g-7 for the first Prohibition. And hearing about ISS wanting to uproot us from all three stations instead of one makes me think that just as much... /me pulls the tinfoil hat down harder First, ISS had bupkis to do with Prohibition I (but changed its charter anyway to do a better job addressing IAC concerns), and second, IAC STARTED THIS WAR. When you start wars and threaten stations, you risk losing. ISS offered to give you back your station FOR FREE and your boy Tyrrax turned it down cold. What he wanted is for ISS to return the station, with no promise of a NAP, and for ISS to pay IAC rent on top of that. You knew all that right? IAC leadership is sharing all their decisions with the members?
Kalmanaka The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:07:00 - [335] Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican It seemed that right as the siege started. ISS and IAC markets bottemed out, everything was taken off or bought out. Then "I" noticed some of our ships we were sellings where back on the g-7 market but for insane prices. I am honestly trying to keep track of events here and this is an honest question. Is this "siege" you speak of the beginning of the IAC/ISS war or is this some other event? I don't want a full history lesson, I just am curious and trying to not be confused.
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:16:00 - [336] Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican ISS and IAC markets bottemed out, everything was taken off or bought out. Then "I" noticed some of our ships we were sellings where back on the g-7 market but for insane prices. (180 mil Raven anyone? since I complained about that damn ship almost everyday cause I needed it bad lol) It's kind of crazy that an alliance can't restrict sales within its own station to whomever they want. But they can't. So there's nothing to stop pirates from buying (for example) all the WCS and Tracking Disruptors they want to keep them off the market. Devs - Feature Request - Allow controlling alliance in an outpost to restrict sales to people who are allowed to dock. During this war - I hate the name people are using for it BTW - the Marginis/Tycho market has been quite richly seeded a few times. Business has been good for ISS. I can see this myself from some of the sell orders I have up, from mods which I bought months ago and only started selling recently. Many many people think that pew pew is going to win this war. It's not. The only thing pew pew does is start to demoralize the team that gets shot up the most. And that's one strategic weapon in the long run. ISS has many more than that (so does IAC). ISS in this conflict has used economic warfare as one of its strategic tools, and sadly during the last IAC war which ISS did NOT participate in, reselling was exploited for personal gain by a few ISS privateers. But I would leave you with this thought. Why is IAC selling items on the market during a war, if it's causing so many problems? Blame your own members for a lack of vision, and your leaders for not leading. ISS leadership has been encouraging members to sell at cost or near-cost during this conflict, to help the alliance as much as possible. Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM, ISS Join us! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=402528
Cicilus Hadrican Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:26:00 - [337] Originally by: Kalmanaka Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican It seemed that right as the siege started. ISS and IAC markets bottemed out, everything was taken off or bought out. Then "I" noticed some of our ships we were sellings where back on the g-7 market but for insane prices. I am honestly trying to keep track of events here and this is an honest question. Is this "siege" you speak of the beginning of the IAC/ISS war or is this some other event? I don't want a full history lesson, I just am curious and trying to not be confused. no,on the first prohibition between McFix and IAC. Doesnt matter, I'm just stateing the reasoning of why some of the members are stating this. Are you guys actually serious with this nonsense? Good lord. Originally by: Smoking Mirror If ISS is trying to sell Ravens for 180mil, then make some and sell for less -- but still at a profit. It's called competition. Hello? Every time there's an issue like that in the market, that's not a problem, that's opportunity. Unbelievable stuff. Name a "market pvp" scenario, and I'll explain to you how you can make money on it yourself. Jesus Christ -- is IAC serious with stuff like this? Does no one there understand what a market IS? I just assumed the price of shuttles thing was some inside joke. No one could be that stupid, right? I dont understand why you need to hide behind a alt with a honest oppinion assumeing you are one of course. But trying to cash in on a next door resident that shares the same goals isnt all "nicey nicey" to those that its being done to. (I.E almost double mark-up of items) Its all about perception. Basically you see a opportutity and instead of helping the situation you try to line your own pockets by useing the huge demand and hitting a already deprived party that is fighting for its life to survive. A tactic used by a group you came to their aid on their time of need. As I stated, was ingenious or who ever was doing it. And again this happened during MCFIX'es Prohibition, meaning the industial part in 0.0 is on a huge lock down. which means you cant necessary build anything to compete with said sell order. But I do remember shuttles going for a million + each, but that was happening way before MCFIX, that might be considered more of a inside joke lol.
Kalmanaka The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:42:00 - [338] Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican I dont understand why you need to hide behind a alt with a honest oppinion assumeing you are one of course. Not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm fairly new to ISS and I live in the north and spend most of my time in EC/Lonetrek so I am quite literally ignorant of much of the history of the south. I've only been playing since last June so there is still much I have to learn. Thank you for clearing up my confusion.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:43:00 - [339] Then your leaders and logistics people need to get their crap together and use restricted escrows, trades, hangers, whatever, to get gear into the hands of people who need it. If you put crap out on the market -- it's on the market. ANYONE could have played it -- including whoever was paying MC, or MC itself. Or some neutral wandering by seeing a market opportunity. Anyone. That's how markets work.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:11:00 - [340] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Edited by: Smoking Mirror on 03/01/2007 16:10:22 Then your leaders and logistics people need to get their crap together and use restricted escrows, trades, hangers, whatever, to get gear into the hands of people who need it. If you put crap out on the market -- it's on the market. ANYONE could have played it -- including whoever was paying MC, or MC itself. Or some neutral wandering by seeing a market opportunity. Or even IAC people, who had access to all the stations. Anyone. That's how markets work. BUt, I don't like you. --------------------------------------------
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:11:00 - [341] Don't hate the player, hate the game. :) Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM, ISS Join us! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=402528
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:24:00 - [342] Originally by: Smoking Mirror Then your leaders and logistics people need to get their crap together and use restricted escrows, trades, hangers, whatever, to get gear into the hands of people who need it. If you put crap out on the market -- it's on the market. ANYONE could have played it -- including whoever was paying MC, or MC itself. Or some neutral wandering by seeing a market opportunity. Anyone. That's how markets work. It was going on before McFix war. It was going on before my corp even joined IAC. It was going on after the first McFix war. People talking about it being a free market need to realize... its not. That strip of Catch is IAC space. Despite what people think, we protect our market. We are watching who's doing what. The IAC members that are exploiting the market are being watched and personally confronted. As for ISS 'market pvp' When you can't sell a frigate in your space for under a million because ISS will buy them all and resell them for a 500% markup over build cost it puts a strain on the pew pew. You are forced to sell high just so they won't crowd you off the market. When 'pre-revelations' your escrow system with restricted alliance only purchases are just as busy as the actuall market... it makes you look at what is going on. ISS operate under a free market. We don't. If someone in IAC buys from our producers at alliance cost and then sells it on the market at a markup they aren't going to be sold to again. When I make battleships in immensea and sell them in I-N on the Maesltrom market I sell them at IAC prices ( 110m for a raven ). If Maelstrom want to buy it and resell it for 180 its not my business. It is my business if that happens in the IAC core system. I don't like using the old escrow system to stop profiteering and we aren't going to use the contracts exclusively now. Its our market. Had a good spirited portion of ISS actually lived there and work directly with us to create a better market a lot of ill will would never have existed. ISS, you should know alt, don't prevent anything; they work on a shady reimbursement if your navy or members pew pew out of line. As it has been said before, market pvp was not a direct reason to go to war; it was one of many. ISS never treated us with any respect regarding our market. Their operation has to change if they expect to stay apolitical and 'do not own space' outside of the game mechanic that keeps sov. As empires grow around them they better take notice and work hard with their people who do claim ownership of the area. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Cicilus Hadrican Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:44:00 - [343] Originally by: Kalmanaka Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican I dont understand why you need to hide behind a alt with a honest oppinion assumeing you are one of course. Not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm fairly new to ISS and I live in the north and spend most of my time in EC/Lonetrek so I am quite literally ignorant of much of the history of the south. I've only been playing since last June so there is still much I have to learn. Thank you for clearing up my confusion. No, I stated that after Smoking Mirror's qoute, sorry if I accidently offended you
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:50:00 - [344] This is probably one of the most intelligent and coherent messages I have ever seen come from IAC regarding this conflict. Not that I agree with it completely though. But it does help the industrialists know where you're coming from. Originally by: Kaylana Syi It was going on before McFix war. It was going on before my corp even joined IAC. It was going on after the first McFix war. People talking about it being a free market need to realize... its not. That strip of Catch is IAC space. Despite what people think, we protect our market. We are watching who's doing what. The IAC members that are exploiting the market are being watched and personally confronted. This is a big difference between how ISS and IAC perceive the market. For ISS, it's a free and open market, similar to empire space. For IAC, it's somewhat like a subsidized market. Canada and the US have similar trade disputes. Originally by: Kaylana Syi As for ISS 'market pvp' When you can't sell a frigate in your space for under a million because ISS will buy them all and resell them for a 500% markup over build cost it puts a strain on the pew pew. You are forced to sell high just so they won't crowd you off the market. When 'pre-revelations' your escrow system with restricted alliance only purchases are just as busy as the actuall market... it makes you look at what is going on. ISS operate under a free market. We don't. If someone in IAC buys from our producers at alliance cost and then sells it on the market at a markup they aren't going to be sold to again. When I make battleships in immensea and sell them in I-N on the Maesltrom market I sell them at IAC prices ( 110m for a raven ). If Maelstrom want to buy it and resell it for 180 its not my business. It is my business if that happens in the IAC core system. Not when you put it on the market. IMO. Ask the devs to add features to the market system, but don't blame anyone for using it. Originally by: Kaylana Syi I don't like using the old escrow system to stop profiteering and we aren't going to use the contracts exclusively now. Its our market. Had a good spirited portion of ISS actually lived there and work directly with us to create a better market a lot of ill will would never have existed. ISS, you should know alt, don't prevent anything; they work on a shady reimbursement if your navy or members pew pew out of line. As it has been said before, market pvp was not a direct reason to go to war; it was one of many. ISS never treated us with any respect regarding our market. Their operation has to change if they expect to stay apolitical and 'do not own space' outside of the game mechanic that keeps sov. As empires grow around them they better take notice and work hard with their people who do claim ownership of the area. What you like or don't like is of little concern to people who play the market. They do it in empire, in Jita, everywhere. Do you think they will stop just because IAC declares war on ISS? Their efforts will just increase to try and make even more ISK. ISS doesn't primarily sell to ISS members, unlike IAC who I gather primarily sell within the Alliance, or to friends. At the end of the day, anyone in IAC space who put something up for sale put it up for anyone to buy. They also didn't have to buy anything at all within the market. Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM, ISS Join us! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=402528
Kalmanaka The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:51:00 - [345] Ah okay my mistake then. No offense was taken anyway. :)
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:51:00 - [346] Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican Originally by: Kalmanaka Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican I dont understand why you need to hide behind a alt with a honest oppinion assumeing you are one of course. Not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm fairly new to ISS and I live in the north and spend most of my time in EC/Lonetrek so I am quite literally ignorant of much of the history of the south. I've only been playing since last June so there is still much I have to learn. Thank you for clearing up my confusion. No, I stated that after Smoking Mirror's qoute, sorry if I accidently offended you Cic, shush on the forums m8. --------------------------------------------
Cicilus Hadrican Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:51:00 - [347] Originally by: Smoking Mirror First, ISS had bupkis to do with Prohibition I (but changed its charter anyway to do a better job addressing IAC concerns), and second, IAC STARTED THIS WAR. When you start wars and threaten stations, you risk losing. ISS offered to give you back your station FOR FREE and your boy Tyrrax turned it down cold. What he wanted is for ISS to return the station immediately, with no promise of a NAP, and for ISS to pay IAC rent on top of that. You knew all that right? IAC leadership is sharing all their decisions with the members? While YOU again intend to flame and slander our leaders let me remind YOU and the community that is was IAC as a WHOLE that begged for this war, and not because of the reasons of this feeble "market pvp" that I'm even trying to jest on its idoicy. Let it be known that 95% of IAC agreed with turning down that offer. Hell read the offer, even though they play the good guys and allow us more POSes in the system, they are 6 POS switches away from taking f4 back, in turn pushing us into a non-negotiable NAP. "Oh no NAP? continued hostilities? [flips switch] f4 will be ours again/stay ours." Maybe while your wave your ISS pom poms, you should think alittle more deeply at both sides of the story. PERCEPTION is as you take it. It is a generous offer, but there are loop holes that even make it unfair, even in the slightest ways.
Cicilus Hadrican Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:53:00 - [348] Originally by: DHB FooFighter Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican Originally by: Kalmanaka Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican I dont understand why you need to hide behind a alt with a honest oppinion assumeing you are one of course. Not sure if you were referring to me, but I'm fairly new to ISS and I live in the north and spend most of my time in EC/Lonetrek so I am quite literally ignorant of much of the history of the south. I've only been playing since last June so there is still much I have to learn. Thank you for clearing up my confusion. No, I stated that after Smoking Mirror's qoute, sorry if I accidently offended you Cic, shush on the forums m8. o7 Cic out
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:17:00 - [349] Edited by: Barrier Solo on 03/01/2007 17:19:59 Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican While YOU again intend to flame and slander our leaders let me remind YOU and the community that is was IAC as a WHOLE that begged for this war, and not because of the reasons of this feeble "market pvp" that I'm even trying to jest on its idoicy. Let it be known that 95% of IAC agreed with turning down that offer. Hell read the offer, even though they play the good guys and allow us more POSes in the system, they are 6 POS switches away from taking f4 back, in turn pushing us into a non-negotiable NAP. "Oh no NAP? continued hostilities? [flips switch] f4 will be ours again/stay ours." Maybe while your wave your ISS pom poms, you should think alittle more deeply at both sides of the story. PERCEPTION is as you take it. It is a generous offer, but there are loop holes that even make it unfair, even in the slightest ways. Non-flame response to above. I think that the general ISS membership does not understand why the general IAC membership has a problem with them. Let's ignore management for a minute. As an ISS or IAC member, I could dock, do business with and even go ratting for pirates together. Our goals seemed to mesh fairly well. Then, to us, out of the blue IAC starts cozying up to pirate corps which prey on ISS. More and more, it seems that IAC leadership starts taking direction from those pirates, and lets themselves get goaded into actions which will not benefit IAC whatsoever. So IAC wars on ISS, ISS wars back, and takes a station. ISS says, hey, let's try out some peace and get back to business. For whatever reason, IAC wants to claim the current Marginis/Tycho constellation. And that's where we are today. Some features which are already coming down the pipe this year include enforced NAPs. Until they come out, ISS made a fair offer to IAC which included placing 6 non-sov claiming towers in F4. If IAC had made the NAP agreement and accepted the 6 towers, it would worry about ISS breaking the nap (we don't have a history of doing so). ISS would worry about IAC members breaking the NAP. (edit note - think about how much it would cost ISS to fuel 6 large POS for 2-3 months, when they aren't reacting or making ISK on their own. If ISS were not negotiating in good faith, would push the cost to IAC as part of the NAP) ISS has a lot of faith in its own leadership, and from the forum posts your members have made, it's quite clear that IAC members have faith in their own as well. What we don't have is faith and fair dealings between our alliances, at the moment. Hopefully that will change at some point in the future. (edited for clarity) Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM, ISS Join us! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=402528
GO MaZ The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:41:00 - [350] Originally by: Barrier Solo I think that the general ISS membership does not understand why the general IAC membership has a problem with them. Let's ignore management for a minute. As an ISS or IAC member, I could dock, do business with and even go ratting for pirates together. Our goals seemed to mesh fairly well. Then, to us, out of the blue IAC starts cozying up to pirate corps which prey on ISS. More and more, it seems that IAC leadership starts taking direction from those pirates, and lets themselves get goaded into actions which will not benefit IAC whatsoever. 1) Not understanding why the general IAC membership has a problem with ISS is part of the problem. The reasons have been explained over and over again, and from what I see they're simply shrugged off as being pathetic. 2) By pirate corps, I assume you're referring to, initially, the Priory, and now Shroud of Darkness. Now, I wasn't a member of Priory at the time of Prohibition I, but the way I understand it is that Priory joined IAC for a short period to assist during Prohibition I. Priory have pretty much ALWAYS been red to ISS, and this caused some.. incidents while Priory were in IAC (whether this was initiated by PRI or ISS is irrelevant and I cant be bothered to discuss it). Priory left IAC to stop it causing problems for them, and formed the Shroud of Darkness alliance with IAC mutually blue. I don't know the specifics behind PRI joining IAC to start with, but 'cozying up' isn't to be unexpected after PRI helped out when IAC needed it (need I remind you that ISS, who's so called goals meshed well, didnt offer any assistance?) 3) You give SoD WAY too much credit. We might be blue with IAC and communicate with each other closely, but the IAC leadership are perfectly capable of making their own decisions themselves. I don't think anything SoD could say would influence any decisions the IAC leadership have to make; Tyrrax is a hardheaded bastard and the rest of them aren't drones either If IAC really wanted to keep the peace with ISS, SoD wouldn't have a hope in hell of changing that
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:02:00 - [351] Originally by: GO MaZ 1) Not understanding why the general IAC membership has a problem with ISS is part of the problem. The reasons have been explained over and over again, and from what I see they're simply shrugged off as being pathetic. The crazy crazy threads which BD and various IAC members contributed to certainly didn't help. It's hard to give credence to anything said in those threads. The flames, bad grammar/spelling, and blatant lies got in the way of effective communication between normal IAC and ISS members. ISS was just as guilty of that as IAC, I'm not pointing fingers. And the SoD posts were much better written than either. ISS ***ed down on BD. Hopefully IAC will get one of their better posters promoted to communications director. Or hire SoD to do it for them. Originally by:** GO MaZ 2) By pirate corps, I assume you're referring to, initially, the Priory, and now Shroud of Darkness. Now, I wasn't a member of Priory at the time of Prohibition I, but the way I understand it is that Priory joined IAC for a short period to assist during Prohibition I. Priory have pretty much ALWAYS been red to ISS, and this caused some.. incidents while Priory were in IAC (whether this was initiated by PRI or ISS is irrelevant and I cant be bothered to discuss it). Priory left IAC to stop it causing problems for them, and formed the Shroud of Darkness alliance with IAC mutually blue. I don't know the specifics behind PRI joining IAC to start with, but 'cozying up' isn't to be unexpected after PRI helped out when IAC needed it (need I remind you that ISS, who's so called goals meshed well, didnt offer any assistance?) 3) You give SoD WAY too much credit. We might be blue with IAC and communicate with each other closely, but the IAC leadership are perfectly capable of making their own decisions themselves. I don't think anything SoD could say would influence any decisions the IAC leadership have to make; Tyrrax is a hardheaded bastard and the rest of them aren't drones either If IAC really wanted to keep the peace with ISS, SoD wouldn't have a hope in hell of changing that I'm just giving the view from the outside in; I've got no idea what actually happens at the political level within IAC. But the water cooler talk within ISS membership is that IAC is letting themselves get influenced by their friends primarily, and to a lesser extent the general chaos in the south right now. To ISS members, IAC are acting like a bunch of wackos - because we have no idea what's going on in their heads. Some say it's the market pvp, some that it's not really the market pvp after all, others that ISS is a territorial alliance hell-bent on conquering the IAC outposts, others say they just want pew pew, the leaders now claim they own Catch and want rent from ISS... and so on. I'm sure you can see why we are at a deadlock on the forums. The participants can't even agree on why they are fighting. Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM, ISS Join us! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadid=402528
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:30:00 - [352] Originally by: GO MaZ I don't know the specifics behind PRI joining IAC to start with, but 'cozying up' isn't to be unexpected after PRI helped out when IAC needed it (need I remind you that ISS, who's so called goals meshed well, didnt offer any assistance?) ISS did assist, and IAC management KNOW they did. When ISS management returned from its real life jolly in London it acted immediately. MC relocated to Curse and requests for offices in the Marginis cluster were politely turned down. I was in convo with an MC director who flew there to rent the offices as he did so - Litom was full, so he took them in Utopia. ISSN also permitted pirate forces to pass its gate camps on request from IAC management. Had my PC not crashed, I'd copy you a chat log where, DURING a fight with S*****rdly, IAC requested safe passage for them, and ISSN complied immediatly. Though with much grumbling on Vent about having to disengage from pirates. Post war, ISS changed its charter to prevent the humiliation its Navy suffered whilst poised to leap into the fight in defence of its neighbour (ok, ok .. and refinery access - and I had a lot of named mods on sale in The Bottleshop). An argument started with management over the precise wording of the old charter and whether sucking all the cap out of a FIX dread whilst it was in siege mode outside an IAC POS was technically ultra vires, or constituted self defence. You may have believed the old BOB/ISS/MC jokes, but no one who knew at which end of a Citadel Torpedo to stand believed the ISS/MC relationship was founded on anything but isk and mutual respect and that mutual blue status lasted till the first contract MC took that had aims at variance from ISS's interests. Mynas Atoch (ISSN-XO during Prohibition 1 and the guy who was fitting the NOS Domis to come to IAC's assistance on Day 1)
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:36:00 - [353] Wanting to sell ISS Borealis shares @ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=454559 Make me an offer pls.
Arrgs Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:39:00 - [354] Originally by: Fred0 Wanting to sell ISS Borealis shares @ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=454559 Make me an offer pls. 1m each? I like what I see here My first video!
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:24:00 - [355] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Smoking Mirror Then your leaders and logistics people need to get their crap together and use restricted escrows, trades, hangers, whatever, to get gear into the hands of people who need it. If you put crap out on the market -- it's on the market. ANYONE could have played it -- including whoever was paying MC, or MC itself. Or some neutral wandering by seeing a market opportunity. Anyone. That's how markets work. It was going on before McFix war. It was going on before my corp even joined IAC. It was going on after the first McFix war. People talking about it being a free market need to realize... its not. That strip of Catch is IAC space. Despite what people think, we protect our market. We are watching who's doing what. The IAC members that are exploiting the market are being watched and personally confronted. As for ISS 'market pvp' When you can't sell a frigate in your space for under a million because ISS will buy them all and resell them for a 500% markup over build cost it puts a strain on the pew pew. You are forced to sell high just so they won't crowd you off the market. When 'pre-revelations' your escrow system with restricted alliance only purchases are just as busy as the actuall market... it makes you look at what is going on. ISS operate under a free market. We don't. If someone in IAC buys from our producers at alliance cost and then sells it on the market at a markup they aren't going to be sold to again. When I make battleships in immensea and sell them in I-N on the Maesltrom market I sell them at IAC prices ( 110m for a raven ). If Maelstrom want to buy it and resell it for 180 its not my business. It is my business if that happens in the IAC core system. I don't like using the old escrow system to stop profiteering and we aren't going to use the contracts exclusively now. Its our market. Had a good spirited portion of ISS actually lived there and work directly with us to create a better market a lot of ill will would never have existed. ISS, you should know alt, don't prevent anything; they work on a shady reimbursement if your navy or members pew pew out of line. As it has been said before, market pvp was not a direct reason to go to war; it was one of many. ISS never treated us with any respect regarding our market. Their operation has to change if they expect to stay apolitical and 'do not own space' outside of the game mechanic that keeps sov. As empires grow around them they better take notice and work hard with their people who do claim ownership of the area. WTB 110m Raven in MP please _
Alts Are bypsassing the forum rules.	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:09:00 - [356] Edited by: Alts Are on 04/01/2007 01:12:46 I say bring back BD, Let him and press officer and our friend Smoking Mirrors all have a nice go round. I really could care less though on this conflict. Both sides are silly. Who cares, i sure dont
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:22:00 - [357] Edited by: Trind2222 on 04/01/2007 02:28:41 wow IAC got some balls i realy digg iac right now :D God luck with the war. To iss sorry but don't expect all too take your side, nope i don't think so.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.04 03:34:00 - [358] Originally by: Mynas Atoch ISS did assist, and IAC management KNOW they did. When ISS management returned from its real life jolly in London it acted immediately. MC relocated to Curse and requests for offices in the Marginis cluster were politely turned down. I was in convo with an MC director who flew there to rent the offices as he did so - Litom was full, so he took them in Utopia. I don't know about the rest of IAC management, but none of that was ever communicated to me, so no I didn't know any of that, except ofc MC being based in utopia. Quote: ISSN also permitted pirate forces to pass its gate camps on request from IAC management. Had my PC not crashed, I'd copy you a chat log where, DURING a fight with S***rdly, IAC requested safe passage for them, and ISSN complied immediatly. Though with much grumbling on Vent about having to disengage from pirates. The way I remember it ISS did not comply and our mercs had to get backup to eventually brute force their way through, maybe it looked otherwise to ISS, but not to us or our mercs. Quote:** Post war, ISS changed its charter to prevent the humiliation its Navy suffered whilst poised to leap into the fight in defence of its neighbour (ok, ok .. and refinery access - and I had a lot of named mods on sale in The Bottleshop). An argument started with management over the precise wording of the old charter and whether sucking all the cap out of a FIX dread whilst it was in siege mode outside an IAC POS was technically ultra vires, or constituted self defence. You may have believed the old BOB/ISS/MC jokes, but no one who knew at which end of a Citadel Torpedo to stand believed the ISS/MC relationship was founded on anything but isk and mutual respect and that mutual blue status lasted till the first contract MC took that had aims at variance from ISS's interests. Mynas Atoch (ISSN-XO during Prohibition 1 and the guy who was fitting the NOS Domis to come to IAC's assistance on Day 1) Damage to our relations was already done by the time any charter changes were made, can't change history http://eve.klaki.net/
c0rn1 Seraphin Technologies S.E.R.A	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:38:00 - [359] Edited by: c0rn1 on 04/01/2007 05:15:10 Interesting discussion about the market system. I figured that the market system in 0.0 is flawed as well, when other/hostile entities were buying the stuff off of our market to reput it in for double price (done so by GOON/RA in Scalding). I would support any petition to CCP to fix the system the way that people in 0.0 ONLY can buy at a certain station if they are ABLE to dock. Until that time I'd suggest any entity who wants to sell their junk intern to use the contract system and set as recipient your own alliance. But as long as not a "new" system is being implemented and the market is basically absolutely free, this is a valid tactic. Annoying, but valid like so many half-cooked things in eve are :) Regards P.S.: Sorry for being off topic P.P.S.: My oppinion to the war is that the leaders of both sides should put their heads together and rethink the situation. Peace would be a good solution for both in the end. I think the offer to hand F4R2 back in a certain amount of time sounds very fair. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Life's a waste of time ...
Tehyarec Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.04 05:49:00 - [360] Just a quick note about the market thing. In addition to it being able to limit it to those that can dock, then we'd need (and we do regardless) the ability to set standings for a whole alliance. For example take ISS - it's hard to set all corps red separately. Though even then there's always to possibility to use alts if the station allows neutrals docking. I suppose there'd have to be an alliance/corp option as well.
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:46:00 - [361] Originally by: Trind2222 wow IAC got some balls i realy digg iac right now :D Not really. IAC were always going to kick the heck out of ISSN, ISS's only PVP force, which of course is why they were so keen on war. IAC's problem is keeping the scale fighting small enough for the easy ganks they are currently revelling in, but not so large that ISS call up their civilians and bring in outside help. IAC miscalculated in the first week, literally smashing ISS in space and refusing to rule out going further. Now that its reached an uneasy stasis point, with one station in ISS hands, but IAC in control of space, the question is who tips the scales next. ISS's morale will be dropping, but if it goes too far, ISS have to open the warchest again. Its really in IAC's hands. How far and how fast do they squeeze ... or do they go to serious POS war after the long downtime and expose their Dreads to ... who? Myn
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:02:00 - [362] Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 04/01/2007 08:03:04 Originally by: The Beatnuts Originally by: Tovarishch the moment AAA moved their cap ships into the area [...] over a week after AAA logged their cap ships out in the vicinity. Anyone saying otherwise is guessing... because they know nothing of what actually took place. Period. We did not bring a cap fleet. http://www.eve-icsc.com/jumptools/jumprange.php?id=30001171&showall=true&jdc=4&st=dreadnought & http://www.eve-icsc.com/jumptools/jumprange.php?id=30001185&showall=true&jdc=4&st=dreadnought - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.04 10:27:00 - [363] Originally by: Mynas Atoch Originally by: Trind2222 wow IAC got some balls i realy digg iac right now :D Not really. IAC were always going to kick the heck out of ISSN, ISS's only PVP force, which of course is why they were so keen on war. IAC's problem is keeping the scale fighting small enough for the easy ganks they are currently revelling in, but not so large that ISS call up their civilians and bring in outside help. IAC miscalculated in the first week, literally smashing ISS in space and refusing to rule out going further. Now that its reached an uneasy stasis point, with one station in ISS hands, but IAC in control of space, the question is who tips the scales next. ISS's morale will be dropping, but if it goes too far, ISS have to open the warchest again. Its really in IAC's hands. How far and how fast do they squeeze ... or do they go to serious POS war after the long downtime and expose their Dreads to ... who? Myn I know that Fix and LV , MC are helping iss. My point is that IAC are going in to war they probely loose it whoud be cool if they win but the odds are agenst them as ther are to many corps and alliance that suporting iss. But IAC will not come righ to you arms if thout so but i guess they will try to outmanuvering iss and all that help's iss.
Gutsani The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.04 10:36:00 - [364] Originally by: Trind2222 I know that Fix and LV , MC are helping iss. My point is that IAC are going in to war they probely loose it whoud be cool if they win but the odds are agenst them as ther are to many corps and alliance that suporting iss. But IAC will not come righ to you arms if thout so but i guess they will try to outmanuvering iss and all that help's iss. I didnt expect more from your anyone in your corp, but your information is seriously outdated. MC want money, and i think after the flamage that count gave em, they now want ALOT of money to show up. FIX wont show up unless MC shows up, some buddy buddy thing i guess? And LV, i doubt they are gonna commit capitals to this, since then they leave their space vuln to RAGOON and their capitals can get spanked/ganked by AAA. ISS is at this point, alone. Furthermore, their outposts in the north will prolly come under fire soon enough. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
hungdra	Posted - 2007.01.04 11:02:00 - [365] IAC and SOD, You guys undocked yet or still fighting the war on the forums.....
matty01 The Priory	Posted - 2007.01.05 00:41:00 - [366] Originally by: hungdra IAC and SOD, You guys undocked yet or still fighting the war on the forums..... how bout you grow a pair and post with your main __________________________ member of the "post with your main" commitee
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.08 04:32:00 - [367] Ahem. It has been more than a week I think now since my comments here. I wanted to take a moment to officially apologize to IAC. Undue stress from increase demands made on me, I have become even more fustrated than usual and I vented quite loudly and in the wrong place. As such, I want to show I can swallow my pride and formally offer my apologies for my much too harsh comments.
Bacilius The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.08 08:58:00 - [368] Originally by: Caleb Paine There's 2 options; - shoot stuff till your eyes bleed and one of the 2 will be crying, where (as it stands) it will be IAC who is doing the crying. - come to the conclusion that things might look good from a pewpew point of view, but are looking rather bad from an alliance/outpost point of view so accept this as a fact, take the epeen shrinkage with some pride and negotiate a peace which will actually ensure IAC keeps in business. As it is right now there's a lot of whining, he said/she said and people going to great lengths to keept this war fueled for their own fun/reasons. The less PVP minded IAC aren't happy and get the shaft from the more PVP minded in their alliance. IAC started it, IAC was purposely (perhaps in jeste, but some things you shouldn't do in jeste, it's a bad business decision and I'd hope alliance leaders/spokesmen would understand that little fact) vague about it being an outpost war or not. Right now things aren't looking so hot for IAC and the whining and pointing fingers to others it just embarassing. Accept the fact that you misjudged the situation and take it like a man (but make sure the MGRL isn't in system), prolonging things won't be in either's interest but IAC doesn't even have a pair while ISS holds a flush. Either call and hope to bluff or fold. I call. (A flush can mean many things.. ) Originally by: Derran Ahem. It has been more than a week I think now since my comments here. I wanted to take a moment to officially apologize to IAC. Undue stress from increase demands made on me, I have become even more fustrated than usual and I vented quite loudly and in the wrong place. As such, I want to show I can swallow my pride and formally offer my apologies for my much too harsh comments. Props to you. Apology accepted. You are still red. :)
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.08 09:17:00 - [369] From where I'm sitting it seems like ISS are pretty scared atm and they should be. Yous deserve to loose your stations and I hope you loose them all. Pwnage PvP Recruitment
Fillmeup Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.08 09:58:00 - [370] Well, the season has meant I have been out of touch for a couple of weeks. So I'll make the only comment I can justifiably make - Count TaSessine wrote a very good post. Clear, concise and to the point. Whether it is true or not doesn't matter, the post got points. It's amazing how much of this game comes down to perception, isn't it?
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 10:16:00 - [371] Originally by: hungdra IAC and SOD, You guys undocked yet or still fighting the war on the forums..... aw bless, your sig says neutral, your smack mouth says different. KOS sir _

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