EVE Search - The Nano-fad

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

The Nano-fad

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:29:00 - [1] I was just reading the forums, like I do every day, and I came across the Nano-Myrm thread. It makes me wonder, what has caused this massive Nano/I-stab trend where every ship that can fit lots of Nos and a MWD suddenly becomes an uber solopwn ship that can't be caught under most circumstances? The pioneer of the trend in my mind would be the Vagabond (okay, no Nos here really). Then came the nano-Domi, then the Nano-Phoon, and now nano-ships seem to be popping up everywhere. I was ganked on the test server by a Nano-Curse on the test server the other day in a Vagabond I guess it could be worse, ECM could still be overpowered and then the game would go to hell, but really, are nano-everythings really in the spirit of gameplay? I know the devs have stated that they will be "looking into ships that are going a bit too fast", which leads me to believe this is not where they want the game going, with battleships breaking 3,000 m/s regularly Nos'ing every ship within 25km while orbiting and avoiding tracking weapons. I have to say, it would be quite funny to watch a fight between a nano-fleet, but I don't beleive for one second that it's in the best interest of the game if the trend continues. I guess I don't mean this to be a rant, just a musing of sorts on where and why this came about. Nano/I-stab ships certainly have drawbacks... Paper-thin tanks (aside from maybe a nano-Rohk or nano-Drake/Ferox), insane cap-dependancy, web-vulnerability (Huginn, anyone?), and a host of other issues, but the fact that they are SO good solo makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. Where does anyone see this going? When will it come to a head? Will we see nano-fleets duking it out between the likes of some of the biggest names in Eve? Conjecture! Paranoia! Tin foil hats! Tux blogs! I just think all the other races are finally seeing how much fun it is being Minmatar and are trying to compensate
Zalt O	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Zalt O on 11/01/2007 16:43:53 As both a drone and turret user, I don't like fighting nano-ships... my drones cant catch them, sometimes even my light t2s wont even catch a battleship... which is sort of sad. Basically they are invulnerable in a 1v1. Drones cant catch them turrets cant track them torpedoes lack the explosion velocity to do nominal damage, cruises work but still get a big penalty, heavies are generally unaffected (but with the latest HP boost from Kali killing even a tier1 BS with heavy missiles could take awhile), same with lights, and HAMs lack the range webs lack the range to web them (minus domination gear and officer) Fortunately most dont use webs, so you can just slow boat it to the gate in a 1v1 If your at a belt, eject from you ship, wait for him to try to lock your pod, board your ship again, hopefully you'll have time to warp away only real strategies Ive found in a 1v1 vs these new nanoships alternatively, cruisers with MWD and dual webs can *****them, you wait till he is at the peak of his orbit, then double click 180 in the opposite direction, hit your mwd, hit both webs, and hes toast. (requires NOS/cap boosters to power the setup)
thesulei Syndicate Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:49:00 - [3] It sure looks like a nerf to the nano-setups is due.
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:51:00 - [4] i agree with the post autor, nothing logical in this ship mechanics you should only be able to use 1 nano/inertial/overdrive in 1 lowslot now that we have warp to 0 that would be enough to ruin those nano ships even multiple NOS for me is wrong, at least they sould have a way way longer cycle like 3 times more This may be radical but i would like to see proper space fights not arcade ones I like my steaks bloody as hell
Kella DelRae Freedom United	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Zalt O If your at a belt, eject from you ship, wait for him to try to lock your pod, board your ship again, hopefully you'll have time to warp away Keeps shooting your ship? I don't know I havent been out in lawless space in a while but this doesnt seem like it would help you at all? Unless locks on ships break when their pilots eject now which i didn't know.
Zalt O	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Kella DelRae [Keeps shooting your ship? I don't know I havent been out in lawless space in a while but this doesnt seem like it would help you at all? Unless locks on ships break when their pilots eject now which i didn't know. doesn't, but most people crave pod kills so they will go after it :P
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:05:00 - [7] nanoships are kind of ruining the gameplay and I hope the nerf they talk about hits soon and hard. I'd also like a max. 2 nos/neut limit on ships without bonus for them. Regarding the speed nerf I think it's the penalties aren't severe enough, but atm I can°'t think on how they can nerf it enough... Battleships outrunning interceptors is not acceptable (not even if people paid many isk for implants and faction stuff) so I hope ccp gets a good solution.
Reid Mallenfant	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:18:00 - [8] actullay nanophoon has been around along long time
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Pinky Denmark nanoships are kind of ruining the gameplay and I hope the nerf they talk about hits soon and hard. I'd also like a max. 2 nos/neut limit on ships without bonus for them. Regarding the speed nerf I think it's the penalties aren't severe enough, but atm I can°'t think on how they can nerf it enough... Battleships outrunning interceptors is not acceptable (not even if people paid many isk for implants and faction stuff) so I hope ccp gets a good solution. QTF.. naNoS-setups gotta go! just give curse/pilgrim and other NOS/Neutz ships (the blood raider ones) a build in +1 NOS/Neutz per lvl bonus and add a low slot module that does the same so you have the option of a NOS-ship but it will definetly not be the absolute option to fit a ship like it is now. ECM, NOS, Nano, I-Stab, pre-castor gank setups... I think there is another problem why we keep seeing these "invulnerability"-setups, the ships and mods are always tested if they perform in their intended role, but I doubt there is a team within CCP that tries to create invulnerability-setup, since their only ambition is to "test" the stuff, if they had a testing team with the ambitions of "Wining" then all these overpowered setups would dissapear instead of being replaced by other overpowered stuff the next patch. BTW when are they finally gonna fire Tuxford? Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Daikaze	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:36:00 - [10] I think the problem isn't the nano-ships but rather the lack of a counter balance. There is a lot of sacrifice in this layout but it doesn't seem that people are managing to exploit their weakness. Webber drones might be a real good choice here. The drones have MWD so they should be able to catch the ship and slow it down a bit.I also have to question whether or not tracking enhancers should have a stacking penalty. I'd really like to see a solution to this that isn't going to eliminate a play style and that won't result in a nerf to the smaller ships that make use of the nanos.

Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:42:00 - [11] sniff sniff smells like fotm
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:43:00 - [12] In my previous post i forgot to say that i think this playstyle should be preserved but in only a few specialized T2 ships, and i mean the NOS part because the lowslots speed modules is the thing that really totally messes with physic and those have to be nerfed I like my steaks bloody as hell
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho sniff sniff smells like fotm Thus my useage of the word, "fad".
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Blind Man on 11/01/2007 17:58:33 HI IM A WHINER AND I AM TOO: [x] lazy [x] stupid [x] other to find a solution by: [x] training for/ganging with a huginn/rapier and you even have one in you're sig, so use it and get your whinez off ma forumz
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:07:00 - [15] /me pats and hopes some nanopilot or three will think its an easy bellicose they start shooting.
Alassra Eventide Veldspar Industries	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:07:00 - [16] Gotta be the most ignorant and retarded post I have ever seen. So everyone has to train for/ gang with a certain ship in order to combat a large group of ships setup the same way? Seems kind of ass-backwards to me.
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:09:00 - [17] Originally by: thesulei It sure looks like a nerf to the nano-setups is due. Why not take this opportunity and finally do something about nos??!!????
Martyr 01 Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:33:00 - [18] zOMG NERF all nano setups!!!!!!!!! I mean it's not like there are any modules in eve that reduce a ship's speed or stop it from warping.........
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 11/01/2007 17:58:33 HI IM A WHINER AND I AM TOO: [x] lazy [x] stupid [x] other to find a solution by: [x] training for/ganging with a huginn/rapier and you even have one in you're sig, so use it and get your whinez off ma forumz HI IM A TROLL AND I AM TOO: [x] arrogant [x] retarded [x] off-topic to find a solution by: [x] stoping to post and you even have your biased opinion in your sig, so get your trolling off my forumz Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Martyr 01 zOMG NERF all nano setups!!!!!!!!! I mean it's not like there are any modules in eve that reduce a ship's speed or stop it from warping......... Yeah with the 30km range our webifiers and 3km/s speed our web-drones have, not to mention that every race has a specialized webbing ship, I see no point why all ppl fly nano-setups, must be some RP thing. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.

Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:47:00 - [21] I believe the Devs have acknowledged the problem and are looking into it. Battleships zipping round at several Km/sec with full manoeuvrability is just plain wrong, the whole combat engine just isnÆt balanced for it. Even if they do get into web range, the momentum just lets them sail on through and out the other side. Now if all you could do in such a ship was fly in a straight line, well, they wouldnÆt be quite as much of a problem... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:48:00 - [22] Personally I am flying a nanocurse now and, yes, nanosetups are in 1v1 basically unkillable exept by another nanoship or a huggin/rapier. But saying the minnie recons balance this is like saying ECM was perfectly balanced pre-kali, all you needed to counter it were another ECM ship or a ship with 3 ECCM fitted. The really important thing is not that there is a counter, but if the counter is common/acessible enough.
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:50:00 - [23] Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. Pity the fool
Zelakil	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:58:00 - [24] NO NO NO NO NO!!!! They do NOT need to limit nanos or i-stabs, they need to alter another aspect of gameplay in order to allow pilots an alternative to battle these things. NERFING decreases game dynamics. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WoW! Please just come up with a solution that does not take yet another thing out of the game!
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. No comment Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. No comment Thats right... And by the way, so can you. Just because you aren't interested in the possibilities, why ruin it for others? I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. Pity the fool
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Zelakil NO NO NO NO NO!!!! They do NOT need to limit nanos or i-stabs, they need to alter another aspect of gameplay in order to allow pilots an alternative to battle these things. NERFING decreases game dynamics. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WoW! Please just come up with a solution that does not take yet another thing out of the game! And while we are banging our heads to "come up with a solution that does not take yet another thing out of the game", the rest of you will enjoy the new overpowered flavour of the month. I know minmatar pilots feel very emotional about this cause their ships used to suck in pvp not long ago and finally get "the caldari joker" card, but I think you fail to realize that: NANO-setup = Old DUAL-MWD-RAVEN the devs and the community decided long, long, long, long ago that they didnt wanted this overpowered POS (and I'm not talking about control towers), so it got nerfed to hell and back (and even hurting gallente more than it hurt caldari, with scars on thorax and deimos), now its back its gotta get nerfed once again. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:11:00 - [28] Edited by: Plymer Ization on 11/01/2007 19:13:37 Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 11/01/2007 17:58:33 HI IM A WHINER AND I AM TOO: [x] lazy [x] stupid [x] other to find a solution by: [x] training for/ganging with a huginn/rapier and you even have one in you're sig, so use it and get your whinez off ma forumz Thank you for not reading my post. Originally by: Plymer Ization's OP Nano/I-stab ships certainly have drawbacks... Paper-thin tanks (aside from maybe a nano-Rohk or nano-Drake/Ferox), insane cap-dependancy, web-vulnerability (Huginn, anyone?), and a host of other issues, but the fact that they are SO good solo makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. Let me reitterate, I did not mean to whine, it's called a DISCUSSION.
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:12:00 - [29] Nano/inertial stab set-up are gonna get nerfed, it would take more work on CCPs part to rework webbers in order to counter them (though I think webbers need it anyway). This will most likely take the form of a stacking penalty.
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. Nano-Cerb would be insane... the RoF bonus to HAMs would be just uber... too bad I can't fly Caldari

Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:15:00 - [31] Nano/i-stab ships are fine. Nerf nos. And I say this as an avid Nanophoon pilot ;) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. No comment Thats right... And by the way, so can you. Just because you aren't interested in the possibilities, why ruin it for others? I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. I am interested in the possibilities, but only if there is balance.. right now the only ship that can stop a nano-ship is a huginn/rapier, give every race a T1 ship with web range bonus and at least 3-4 mids, and you wouldnt see any nano-setups around at all. It was sorta alright that a T2 ship (vagabond) could only be countered by another T2 ship (huginn/rapier), but now you need a T2 ship to counter every T1 ship, nano setups are exploiting this exact lack of counter in the system. I will come back to you to ask how much you enjoy these "new possibilities" (which are eventually old, old very old problems) once all small skirmish pvp is made out of nano-setups, just like the dual-MWD ravens back in the day.. though I do have a strong feeling CCP wont allow history to repeat it self this time around... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:41:00 - [33] Although at that time there were no minnie recons. Which are an effective counter for nanosetups. But they are not enough. As was said, you can nano pretty much everything. The setup/counter relation is not suficcient.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Kunming give every race a T1 ship with web range bonus and at least 3-4 mids, and you wouldnt see any nano-setups around at all. as if we need to take away something from minmitar has that other races dont
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:04:00 - [35] Web drones work well tbh. The thing with nano setups is if you get a web on it, it is generally ****** no matter what else it does. Actually thats a problem with all minmatar stuff. But enough of that. But speed tanking should be viable and effective in pvp. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Rivek Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:10:00 - [36] Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment? A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered? There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter. --------------------------------------------------- Remove Local Chat as the "I Never Lose Button"
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Tasty Burger Web drones work well tbh. The thing with nano setups is if you get a web on it, it is generally ****** no matter what else it does. Actually thats a problem with all minmatar stuff. But enough of that. But speed tanking should be viable and effective in pvp. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. But I think the glaring issue is at what level does speed tanking seem a bit... much? I fly Stabbers, own a Vagabond, etc, and of course I'm going to speed tank, as that's about the only thing they've got going for them. That, and compared to the DPS of some nano-ships, they hit like pillows. And if they decide to go full Nos they won't kill a shuttle. Maybe the problem is that speedtanking done by other races steps on Minnie's toes? I'm just trying to throw stuff out there, I don't necessarily think that's true or not. I'm also trying not to turn this into an OMG NERF GALLENTE/DRONES/NOS/NANOS/AMARR thread
No21 No0b21	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:19:00 - [38] Hmm yes, was gonna make a topic about Web drones but might as well post here about it. The problem i find in all of this is that it might make a no brainier ship setups and many starts to fit a load of iStabz and orbit in solo combat. Kill the drones and neglect the slow ones that dont hit you or lightly and finish the target off. Cool. But there should be at least something to counter them with a equal in class ship. Webbing drones. Right now they are pretty slow and work so-so meh.And there is only heavy ones. Tested them on a Vaga and meh. They seem to be all to fragile(hp) compared to the heavy attack drones and not so rapid on getting in range and webbing them good. And they are a bit silly, the tactic would be if they cant out-speed the target they can stay in the opponents orbit, which they will but will start to come back to you. Because they stop chasing after some time, but in that time the opponent could do some severe damage to them and maybe even pop one(haven't checked =( ) before they stop. But even then, it seems an iStabz vaga could escape with some ease even if five of them starts to get within activation proximity range. And he can just align away from you and mwd out.... as if they stopped webbing . And how many ships have a drone bay size that could fit 5 H web drones? Should it take an Ishtar to take down a Stabber? Or having to be two just to get one? And get them fast before they decide to warp out? What i want is to be able to have an option that could counter these ships in a effective way that works well. I dont want to just ward them off, i want to get them . It seems that CCP haven't implemented Light/Med weber drones for some reason. Lag? Or that they would make the iStabz coupled with some webbing drones the iWin? Thorax anyone? . Would be nice to have something that could counter these tactics in a broader way than having to have a minm recon, big drone bay, fast tackler(two). Harpoon missiles anyone? Yes, i am a noob, maybe even noob of the year? Donations would be cool. My sig is the best. And its blablabla on the forum...oooho.
Lumel Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:23:00 - [39] Originally by: thesulei It sure looks like a nerf to the nano-setups is due. It sure looks like a nerf to the ECM setups are due. It sure looks like a nerf to the NOS setups are due. It sure looks like a nerf to missiles are due. It sure looks like a nerf to drones are due. It sure looks like a nerf to the (whatever people are complaining about this month) is due. Whee! This can go on all year and then some. --- Knowledge won't help us understand
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:26:00 - [40] I have a feeling this is going to be a loooong post: Problem 1: lack of effective countermeasure for speed beyond 10KM At present without buying expensive faction modules there is reaaly no way to reduce the speed of a ship beyond 10KM, your only option is match speeds with your opponent or fly into an asteroid belt or collidable structure, However under 10KM 1 web will screw the speed of pretty much any ship in game Proposed solution: reduce web range to ~7KM add a falloff for webs of ~5KM, this would increase the max range of a web while helping create a more graduall transistion between stopped and moving while providing a partially effective counter. Also introduce statis web rigs. Problem 2: NOS pwn all A heavy nos will drain a frigate at the same rate it drains a BS, while always draining at max amount Proposed solution: give Nos a signature radius and tracking like guns so that a single heavy NOs does not destroy a frigate, while making NOS + MWD a less attractive tactic. Problem 3: MWD gives every ship a massive speed boost, afterburners are generally pretty sucky Proposed solution, increase the variation in base stats of ships to limit which ships can travel at insane speeds, Also boost afterburner effectivness a to make it a more attractive option for ships, again to give a more varied variety of speeds Problem 4: Everone can be uber fast, making ceptors less usefull. Proposed solution: give Fast ships a role bonus for MWD speed boost and reduce MWD speed boost by the same amount, see reasoning above. I am sure there are more i've missed but these are the obvious ones

Borasao	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:33:00 - [41] /me dons an asbestos suit. Give MWD the same penalties for use as a WCS
Dix Neuf	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:35:00 - [42] I don't see a problem with nanosetups. They're expensive as sin, and die painfully if webbed. They also field no tank. Hrm. What's the minimum acceptable speed for a nanosetup anyway? 2500 m/s? I'm intrigued by nanorokh. :)
Lexiana Del'Amore Gallente Equilibrium Society	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:36:00 - [43] Rank Stabilizers and Nanofibers like afterburners... -Small for frigates -Mediums for Cruisers -Large for Battleships As i would hate to see any nerf slow down smaller ships who need speed to survive
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Blind Man as if we need to take away something from minmitar has that other races dont The ability to PVP without risk? Come on...if they nerf the nannophone you guys might actually have a challenge buzzing around in Vale. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.11 20:56:00 - [45] Originally by: Rivek There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. Neither of these work. Again, these are battleships that travel faster then interceptors. Your friend who got popped did not know how to use his ship. A Huginn might slow one down, but that is about it. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:15:00 - [46] Originally by: MrTripps The ability to PVP without risk? Come on...if they nerf the nannophone you guys might actually have a challenge buzzing around in Vale. lol, just because you cant adapt to certain tactics doesnt give you the right to whine about it. no risk? yeah, because getting webbed and exploding is not risky at all
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:18:00 - [47] Nos is a far bigger problem. It's stupidly overpowered and setups without at least 1 raise eyebrows.
SavageThrash Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:24:00 - [48] Originally by: Blind Man no risk? yeah, because getting webbed and exploding is not risky at all ofc not then you would just log out snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo <-Woah [h6][center][g
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:24:00 - [49] What a stupid thread. Yes nanosetups are a pain to counter, but they drawbacks too. I can fit all nanos/inertias on whatever ships I want, but if I do that on an armor tanking ship, once I get webbed I'm dead. No speakworthy tank, nada, zip... If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship. Stop asking for nerfs each time you think one ship is hard to kill. Adapt or die ffs!! Otherwise you can start a gazillion threads like: - OMGOMGOMG, Drake passive tank...haaaaaaaaxxx!!!!11!!! - Blasterthron's damage is sick!!!!11!!! - I have to fit a sensor booster to counter RSD11!!1!! Stop whining and play the frickin' game! _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
stummer Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:43:00 - [50] jesus stop the bloody whinging , i cant win verus every ship so nerf it now, have you no brain to think of a counter,. and there is more than one ie the huggin.

Lexor SLice Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:55:00 - [51] medium laser boats > nano setups. ____________________________________________ Your signature graphic file size is too large -Zhuge Sad Panda =(
CoLe Blackblood Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:57:00 - [52] Edited by: CoLe Blackblood on 11/01/2007 21:54:09 All fads go away. CoLe Blackblood
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2007.01.11 21:59:00 - [53] My initial thought would be to modify the turning ability of any MWD or Nano setup to prevent a successful orbit. Some sort of math equation would obviously be in order here, but I am no math wiz. Merc Blog
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:04:00 - [54] high speed combat is just more fun than slow speed combat. Frig squads are tons of fun. But with the lag inherent in eve these days frigs die too easily. So the solution was to make bigger ships go faster. I think nano-ships are actually good for eve, they encourage people to actually try to fight because they think they can get away.
Marquis Dean Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:19:00 - [55] Edited by: Marquis Dean on 11/01/2007 22:16:08 Edited by: Marquis Dean on 11/01/2007 22:15:59 Originally by: CoLe Blackblood Edited by: CoLe Blackblood on 11/01/2007 21:54:09 All fads go away. Cause they get nerfed? ------ ------
Ice Breaker2 Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:28:00 - [56] Originally by: R'adeh What a stupid thread. Yes nanosetups are a pain to counter, but they drawbacks too. I can fit all nanos/inertias on whatever ships I want, but if I do that on an armor tanking ship, once I get webbed I'm dead. No speakworthy tank, nada, zip... If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship. Stop asking for nerfs each time you think one ship is hard to kill. Adapt or die ffs!! Otherwise you can start a gazillion threads like: - OMGOMGOMG, Drake passive tank...haaaaaaaaxxx!!!!11!!! - Blasterthron's damage is sick!!!!11!!! - I have to fit a sensor booster to counter RSD11!!1!! Stop whining and play the frickin' game! the man speaks the truth.
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:40:00 - [57] I don't mind nano setups but I think everybody with half a brain knows that they'll be nerfed soon - it's just in the air. - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.11 22:57:00 - [58] Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment? A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered? There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter. Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid.
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment? A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered? There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter. Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid. In order to go that fast you need a HG Snake set. Those implants cost a small fortune, so I think it's kinda justified that you go that fast. About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
thesulei Syndicate Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:19:00 - [60] A webbed nanoship still does speeds from anywhere between 200m/s to 700m/s, which is enough to still have a high chance of survival.

Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:31:00 - [61] Edited by: Gamesguy on 11/01/2007 23:27:39 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You talking about Tas?
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:34:00 - [62] Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:37:00 - [63] Edited by: Gamesguy on 11/01/2007 23:33:33 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them. Actually you can, blackbird jams and something like a stiletto to scram/web, dead nanophoon coming up.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:38:00 - [64] Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth. LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it. The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Mr Peanut Crimson Star Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:38:00 - [65] It's amazing that the same people who want to nerf nano want to nerf nos. That's a really dumb idea. Nerf one or the other, not both. Nos are a good counter to MWD-using ships because it hurts cap, the omgwtfnecessary quality in almost any MWD ship. If you nerf nano and nos at the same time, I swear I'm going to start stockpiling interceptors and AFs. By doing that, the two biggest fears of a frigate: 1. A ship that can almost catch them, and 2. their cap running out, are now eliminated. GG slow battleship/cruiser pilots who whine about this in the first place. You will be your own undoing.
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:40:00 - [66] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: R'adeh About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... The point you either miss or ignore is that intys simply cannot hold nanosetups because you need cap to run webs and warp disruptors. Meaning their are no counter to them. Not only that, their mass will keep them going pretty fast for a while. And I might add that webber drones are fairly useless against nanosetups, my nanocurse kills web drones faster than... um... something really, REALLY fast! - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:48:00 - [67] Web drones dont even beat 2km/s and everyone knows while webbed the momentum of ur nano-ship will get you out of web range just fine, so what the hell are you guys on about, the only thing that can stop a nano-setup is a huginn/rapier.. and giving every race a huginn/rapier was not accepted by the minmatar pilots! Stop argueing pro-nano-setup, you know its overpowered, we know its overpowered and u know what this time even CCP knows its overpowered... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:53:00 - [68] Originally by: Gamesguy Actually you can, blackbird jams and something like a stiletto to scram/web, dead nanophoon coming up. Granted, if you ECM or dampen them intys will be able to tackle them. But only then. Or if you send 4-5 intys at once vs it (aka blob it) so it simply cannot nos them all dry before they manage to slow it enough. But every nanopilot with a brain will warp away assoon as he gets ECM or damperners on them. Speedtanks are IMO just too effective. Imagine: - heavy nos would be removed from the game - active shield/armortanks would be so redicously effective that you would need 5 ships of equal size DPSing to break the tank. Only way to kill ships with an active armor/shieldtank then would be either blobbing the ship or having a curse with nos/neuts to suck it dry. Balanced? Not really. Thats about how it is vs speetanks atm.
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:55:00 - [69] So you probably need more than 1 tackler to pin 'em down, big deal. But if they're the I-WIN button, why is it that the last 2 nanophoons (and 1 nanodomi) had to warp away from my lone blasterthron in Aridia? Sure, I couldn't pin him down alone, but by the time he gave up all of 'em were in deep armor while I had still had some shields left... If he can't kill you (tank him, do more damage faster), you win even if he runs away. Unless you need a killmail to get a hard-on ofc, in which case I feel sorry for you. What about sensor damps, wanna nerf those too? If I put 3 of those on a tackler I doubt he'll hold me unless he's bumping me. What about smartbombs? T2 Warriors? Any other anti-frig weapons? People telling me I never fought nano-setups don't know me. Do you have any idea how many Vagabonds we had down in Feyth before I left? It's the same in every other region. This game needs special "behind enemy lines" ships, it's fun to fly and they provide a challenge. If you take 'em out of the game there will be NOTHING left to counter the blob!! Then people will have no choice but to travel in large groups (and moan about it on the forums), 'cause sooner or later you will run into a blob gatecamp if deep in enemy country. And tanking or super faction modules will NOT save you, not even if you're in a Navy Mega _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.11 23:55:00 - [70] "What a stupid thread. (..) If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship." Wait a moment here; if 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space", why are you defending setup which allows you to do precisely the thing you are not supposed to be able to do, i.e. operate solo in 0.0 space? If you demand people to group in order to fight you in 0.0, then by the same token you should be unable to operate there without group yourself. Pick one or the other, rather than apply different rules to yourself and the others o.(

Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:00:00 - [71] Originally by: R'adeh Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment? A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered? There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter. Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid. In order to go that fast you need a HG Snake set. Those implants cost a small fortune, so I think it's kinda justified that you go that fast. About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... think you only need some low grades and speed rigs fitted and you will go around 7k. ive seen silly ones at 11,5k though Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:02:00 - [72] Originally by: Kunming Web drones dont even beat 2km/s and everyone knows while webbed the momentum of ur nano-ship will get you out of web range just fine, so what the hell are you guys on about, the only thing that can stop a nano-setup is a huginn/rapier.. and giving every race a huginn/rapier was not accepted by the minmatar pilots! Stop argueing pro-nano-setup, you know its overpowered, we know its overpowered and u know what this time even CCP knows its overpowered... was having a good time reading this thread today at work. you really must have got pwn by some nano setup, or have a rival that uses one you cant seem to beat. either way, you seem to be throwing around the OVERPOWERED term pretty loosely here. OVERPOWERED would mean its pro's FAR outweigh its cons, and in this case that simply isn't true. I have a nanotempest setup i love, but fact is, unless i'm roaming solo looking for a solo kill, its not gonna cut the cheese. There are a multitude of ships out there that have the ability to tackle and lock down a ship (nano or not). If you actually applied yourself to the game and had any experience pvping you would know this. So, unable to tackle it? Your gang sucks, send some ppl back to dock to adjust setups or get in different ships. This is not to mention the inherent flaws in a nano setup. Fact is, the faster and more agile you wanna be, the more slots you have to sacrifice. "but hank, they will fit full rack of high's w/ nos, wah wah wah" yeah, how is this different than trying to fight a nosdomi??? Except in this case, unless the ship is a nosdomi, he is not going to have crap for DPS because of it. More on flaws to a nano setup.... so you are sacrificing a good amount of highs for nos we assume.. but what about DPS? Well, if your fitting turrets of any kind, good luck hitting anything. You have to go w/ missiles. Oh, and not to mention, i dont care what kind of setup you have, likely w/o snakes missiles from others are still gonna hit you. Combine this with the whole problem w/ sacrificing all your lows for the insane speed, this equals NO TANK. Once you can wrap you head around ADAPTATION you might see that once your nano enemy is locked down he is going to die quickly after that.(yeah, this may take some actually planning on forming your gang and setups, ie: thinking, oh noes I think nano setups can be fun, but they certainly aren't practical and die very easily. Run along and go play a game that doesn't involve thought or strategy. EvE doesn't need or want players like you.
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:02:00 - [73] Originally by: j0sephine "What a stupid thread. (..) If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship." Wait a moment here; if 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space", why are you defending setup which allows you to do precisely the thing you are not supposed to be able to do, i.e. operate solo in 0.0 space? If you demand people to group in order to fight you in 0.0, then by the same token you should be unable to operate there without group yourself. Pick one or the other, rather than apply different rules to yourself and the others o.( Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant 0.0 space isn't solo-space for the people living there. If you're in 0.0 you are trying to achieve something as a group, at least most people living there belong to a 0.0 corp/alliance...or you're the ebil pirate fighting those guys, in which case you'll be heavily outnumbered lots of times, so you need speed. _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:11:00 - [74] Edited by: Yurii Chan on 12/01/2007 00:08:41 man, the people defending nano setups remind me of the people saying missiles werent overpowered before the nerf. in either case, nano ships are fine for the most part... that is, until you run into Jiekon on sisi with his nanonyx... now all you people saying that there's a counter to it all, name me a counter to a nanonyx? web? cant web her... bump? had a few ships try including a nanophoon... they all died terrible deaths... kill it? well, 3 dreads couldnt dent its shields much (love hitting a mothership for 100 dmg with a citadel torp.) wanna know the scary part? Jiekon told me before he self-destructed that his setup was a "Tq setup" aka its doable... props to the 1st person on TQ to put that setup to use when it happens... but yea, speed tanking is fun and all but lets face it, the fad is growing old already. getting tired of seeing nothing but NOS ships and NanoNos ships on sisi... oh and the speed? 981m/s Nyx... fun stuff (not)
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:15:00 - [75] Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 00:13:38 "Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant 0.0 space isn't solo-space for the people living there. If you're in 0.0 you are trying to achieve something as a group, at least most people living there belong to a 0.0 corp/alliance...or you're the ebil pirate fighting those guys, in which case you'll be heavily outnumbered lots of times, so you need speed." If you are "ebil pirate fighting in 0.0 space" then you live in that space and should play by its rules like everyone else. You don't need speed, you want it because it allows you to do the very thing you deny these "0.0 people" ... and you want it for no other reason but your unwilingness to be arsed. And if you can't be arsed to play in group, don't dictate others they should be playing in a way you wouldn't want to play yourself. Because how are you going to justify it..?
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:18:00 - [76] Originally by: Yurii Chan but yea, speed tanking is fun and all but lets face it, the fad is growing old already. getting tired of seeing nothing but NOS ships and NanoNos ships on sisi... ppl dont understand that nano setups have been around a loooong time. so why do we see so many nowadays? well its a flavor of the week and ppl love to say "i got my ship to do Xm/s". The need to go faster and faster has always been around in eve, and is moreso now w/ snake implants. The biggest reason however is (of course) the boost to I-stabs, which i think we have good chance of seeing an adjustment to. i think its more the case that NOS has always been off in combat balance. I think ships should have hardpoint restrictions to NOS just as they do w/ guns or missiles. God i would love to see ppl only able to fit 1 or 2 (maybe 3, MAYBE) nos to their ship (unless its made for it, like amarr recon or somethin) Lets face it, the dominix is a tier one battleship. Give her a nosdomi setup and you have right crazy ship to take down. Good luck if you run into one solo, i'd rather run into a nanophoon than a nos domi any day of the week Lines seem to be blurred in here over whether or not ppl think speed is overpowered, or if a full/half rack of NOS is overpowered.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:21:00 - [77] So..to summarize it a bit...what could be done? - Give nano's the stacking penalty (making them worthless after the third) - Make nos more role-specific (decrease drain amount, give certain ships (better) bonuses) Basilisk Fitting Link
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:27:00 - [78] Coming to a system near you soon my patented NH of Zooming Doom less mass and same agility as a Vaga but none of the hassle of weapons that have to track.
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:37:00 - [79] Nos never never never needs to be nerfed it is a BS pilots only defence against ceptors. If nos is nerfed then smart bombs need some serious love or bs need some kind of point defence weapon. Only ceptor pilots and noobs want nos nerfing
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:41:00 - [80] Nothing wastes a NanoDomi's time better than a Celestis. Though I have to say, it is silly that the only tackler drone we've got is slower than a noob in a T1 frig.

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:42:00 - [81] "So..to summarize it a bit...what could be done?" If you wanted specifically hit the stabs and nanofiber setups... * inertia stabs currently remove fraction of mass. switch it to fixed value, similar to how armour plates affect the weight. This way stabilizer which has significant effect on light ship would have far smaller effect on large ship. For large ships there could be perhaps 'medium' and 'large' modules with matching fitting requirements. * nanofiber structure / overdrives are at the moment opposite -- they add fixed speed bonus, which means they have far larger effect on large ships, than they give the smaller ships. Change it to fraction of ship base instead, with stacking penalty that ensures the speed growth remains linear with multiple modules fitted rather than expotential. ... that's of course in case there was actually intention to adjust how these modules work. Not entirely sure if that's desirable tbh o.O;
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:45:00 - [82] from a turret users point of view the whole nano thing fricken sucks arse :D I think it's cool that you can setup ships to go fast but so fast you cant even tackle them in an inty? ---------------------- Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Byzan Zwyth from a turret users point of view the whole nano thing fricken sucks arse :D I think it's cool that you can setup ships to go fast but so fast you cant even tackle them in an inty? This is the main problem, remeber when everyone has small guns and twin oversize AB, or dual mwds - it broke the game. There has been nanophoons for a long time, its only their popularaty thats the issue. Hell ive seen nano ravens recently, and of course zillions of nanophoon. The situation needs to be addressd, but dont nerf speed setups too much, vagas should go fast and so should intys!
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:25:00 - [84] Originally by: MrTripps Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth. LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it. The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try. okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then..
Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:34:00 - [85] Originally by: Blind Man okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then.. no ** Sherlock... - - - - - - Originally by:** Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:44:00 - [86] 2007.01.11 21:34 Victim: ****** Alliance: Center for Disease Creation Corp: 23rd Armor Destroyed: Abaddon System: C-FP70 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Horza Otho (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: Infortunatus Eventus Ship: Dominix Weapon: Berserker II LOL K NANO DOMI K LOLOLOL --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:45:00 - [87] Originally by: HankMurphy ppl dont understand that nano setups have been around a loooong time. so why do we see so many nowadays? The buffed inertia stabs and speed rigs gave nanosetups a MAJOR boost. A curse with 4 LH nanos and a t2 10MN MWD goes 2500 mps, a curse with 2 LH nanos and instabs, a t2 10MN MWD and 2 MWD speed rigs goes 3500 mps. The difference is even bigger for t1 ships which can use 3 rigs.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:45:00 - [88] Originally by: Talos Darkhart Nos never never never needs to be nerfed it is a BS pilots only defence against ceptors. If nos is nerfed then smart bombs need some serious love or bs need some kind of point defence weapon. Only ceptor pilots and noobs want nos nerfing Besides escort ships. That's the problem, by having large nos so OMFG powerful against frigs, you remove a large role of cruisers, to protect the battleships.
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.12 01:58:00 - [89] Originally by: Horza Otho 2007.01.11 21:34 Victim: ****** Alliance: Center for Disease Creation Corp: 23rd Armor Destroyed: Abaddon System: C-FP70 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Horza Otho (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: Infortunatus Eventus Ship: Dominix Weapon: Berserker II LOL K NANO DOMI K LOLOLOL what ? Learn to type or go back to wow.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:03:00 - [90] Originally by: R'adeh Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Rivek Maybe speed setups aren't overpowered... maybe you see alot of them because they are fun to fly and allow for soloing in a blobby environment? A corpmate of mine got 4 volleyed in a nanophoon by 4-5 bs a few days ago. Was he overpowered? There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. Alternately, high powered gunships with tracking computers and painters. I feel very sorry for the whiners if they can't come up with a single counter. Intercepters are not a valid counter. reason being heavy nos. That's the real problem, it is not just the fact that a nanophoone can outrun a gisti-corw, it is the fact that if the gisti crow does some fancy flying and managed to get ahead of it and web it before it turns into a stern chase, the crow either dies, or is nossed dry. nanophoons running around at 7km/s+ is just stupid. In order to go that fast you need a HG Snake set. Those implants cost a small fortune, so I think it's kinda justified that you go that fast. About NOS, what's wrong with a bigger ship being able to NOS a smaller ship??? Yes, NOS has become an offensive weapon, but just as with speed setups there are counters: Overwhelming damage, passive tank (extenders/plates), cap boosters, range, etc. Seriously, adaptadaptadaptadaptadaptadapt... Didi you just say a frigate hull should counter noss with overwhelming damage? Just how is an intercepter supposed to keep a somebody webbed out of nos range? If a tech II fitted intercepter was having problems catching a Battleship with the best implants, I could almost swallow that, I am tallking about multiple Intercepters with multiple faction modules themselves.

Ice Breaker2 Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:18:00 - [91] Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: MrTripps Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth. LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it. The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try. okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then.. ok mrTripps you said if we come in comthing else we would get fair fights, but that my dear friend just insn't true. we came to visit your alliance in different ships (6slow-ass damage dealing BS to be more specific) u had 25ppl in local not including us and u guys still woudnt play, so we stoped. And u dont need to train for huginn/rapier just to stop nanophoon. every race has a ship witch is very good at stoping/making usesless a nanoBS/vaga/intys, you just need to fit them right. Some of northen alliance budies know how and has been very succeful at it. OH and nano setups are NOT overpowered in general. The people who fly them make seem so because it is us who spent millions-billions in implants, faction mwds, rigs...etc NOS should be looked at tho, but ccp should make that intys would be still afraid of going close range to BS
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:18:00 - [92] Originally by: Brian Ballbag Originally by: Horza Otho 2007.01.11 21:34 Victim: ****** Alliance: Center for Disease Creation Corp: 23rd Armor Destroyed: Abaddon System: C-FP70 Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Horza Otho (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: Infortunatus Eventus Ship: Dominix Weapon: Berserker II LOL K NANO DOMI K LOLOLOL what ? Learn to type or go back to wow. dude i havent even been to the wow website b4 :\ --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:35:00 - [93] Originally by: HankMurphy was having a good time reading this thread today at work. you really must have got pwn by some nano setup, or have a rival that uses one you cant seem to beat. either way, you seem to be throwing around the OVERPOWERED term pretty loosely here. OVERPOWERED would mean its pro's FAR outweigh its cons, and in this case that simply isn't true. Overpowered (taken from the dictionary): - a dominating force - overcome by superior force In this case it is "the speed" thats the dominating, superior force. In your definition of pros and cons, the cons are that nano-setups have no tank, the pros are that your weapons (drones or missiles) dont need any tracking while the enemy cant hit u with turrets, cant dmg you with missiles, and his drones wont catch up, basically you are going so fast that you wont get hit which in return negates the cons + your NOS, which you fit to run the MWD, has an additional effect of completely neutralizing the enemy. Originally by: HankMurphy I have a nanotempest setup i love, but fact is, unless i'm roaming solo looking for a solo kill, its not gonna cut the cheese. "nanotempest", LOL?! You seem to have completely miss the point of nano-setups, the key is using non-tracking, non-cap-consuming weapons (aka missiles and drones), tempest aint the right ship for it. No wonder it doesnt cut the cheese, ur pair o sails wont even cut the wind! Originally by: HankMurphy There are a multitude of ships out there that have the ability to tackle and lock down a ship (nano or not). ... So, unable to tackle it? Your gang sucks, send some ppl back to dock to adjust setups or get in different ships. "A multitude of ships"... yeah sure... tell me pls how do you unlock those secret ships. There is only 1 ships in EVE that can tackle a nano-ship: huginn/rapier + one would prefer addin a lachesis/arazu to make absolutely sure he's "tackled", thats already 2x T2 ships just to get hold of a T1 nano-ship, then you also want to add a dmg dealer to take him down for sure, that makes 2-3 T2 ships to counter a T1 ship. Then we have the option of ceptors which confronts us with the vagabond problem once again (nothing can catch up to vagas and when interceptors do, they are all alone and die), similarly a nano-setup will NOS ur lil ceptor to nothingness. Alternatively you can swarm your target with ceptors but then its again X number of ships to counter a T1 ship. Not to mention some nano-ships outrun ceptors! Originally by: HankMurphy This is not to mention the inherent flaws in a nano setup. Fact is, the faster and more agile you wanna be, the more slots you have to sacrifice. "but hank, they will fit full rack of high's w/ nos, wah wah wah" yeah, how is this different than trying to fight a nosdomi??? Except in this case, unless the ship is a nosdomi, he is not going to have crap for DPS because of it. WTF? You cant possibly compare a standart nosDomi to a nano-ship!! They are wildly different things... NOS-domi uses NOS to sustain its tank and neutralize its target at the same time, you can web, scramble and hit it with weapons, infact what was overpowered about the NOS-domi was the "NOS + ECM + Drones" combo, with ECM gone out of that you dont even see many of them around anymore. Nano-ship uses NOS to sustain its speed, which gives it invulnerability to some extend (just like ECM gave NOS-domi invulnerability). Also DPS is insignificant if your target cant hit you and is neutralized by your NOS, infact DPS is of quite low importance in KALI since its all about sustainability. Continuing on next post... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:36:00 - [94] ...Continuing from previous post... Originally by: HankMurphy More on flaws to a nano setup.... so you are sacrificing a good amount of highs for nos we assume.. but what about DPS? Well, if your fitting turrets of any kind, good luck hitting anything. You have to go w/ missiles. Oh, and not to mention, i dont care what kind of setup you have, likely w/o snakes missiles from others are still gonna hit you. Combine this with the whole problem w/ sacrificing all your lows for the insane speed, this equals NO TANK. This has all been said and done above.. btw if you know so well that turrets dont go with nano-setups why the hell do you have a nano-tempest?! Or is it true that you actually just reapeating what you read on the forums and dont have any real experience with nano-setup on either side of it. I can understand your frustration that minmatar sucked for so long and now have something really good, but you have to see that its not balanced in anyway and it either needs a nerf or a counter thats as easily accesible as the nano-setup it self. BTW "NO TANK"? Why do you think they call it "speed-tank"? Originally by: HankMurphy Once you can wrap you head around ADAPTATION you might see that once your nano enemy is locked down he is going to die quickly after that.(yeah, this may take some actually planning on forming your gang and setups, ie: thinking, oh noes I think nano setups can be fun, but they certainly aren't practical and die very easily. "Adaptation"... Me and everyone else knows sure as hell that once the nano-ship is locked down he is also going down, thats not the point of discussion in this thread at all though. Locking nano-ships down is the problem and the point of this discussion. Alright here comes the part I really enjoy about your post: Originally by: HankMurphy If you actually applied yourself to the game and had any experience pvping you would know this. Personal insults... what for? to reduce the credibility of my post because you have no valid arguements or counter-arguements to put forward? what are you some 12-year-old kid? Oh and I sure as hell didnt had any pvp experience when I was FC in every frikkin alliance I went... I sure as hell didnt had any pvp experience when I didnt fared worse than a 4:1 k/d ratio on killboards... I sure as hell didnt had any pvp experience when our team almost beat BoB but got second place instead in the first alliance championship... oh boy I have seen more pvp than your whole life in EVE!.. Originally by: HankMurphy Run along and go play a game that doesn't involve thought or strategy. EvE doesn't need or want players like you. What an ironic statement, tell me where is the thought or strategy in nano-setups? You come up with an overpowered combo and expect other players to beat it with "strategy and thought"... you must be a genius And btw Mr Hanky didnt want me in EvE so I'll just leave... leave him in his own misery that is! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.12 03:05:00 - [95]
RadiKS	Posted - 2007.01.12 03:19:00 - [96] All I have to say after reading your whines is be paitentent, learn to fly your ships dont ***** and fight. Those Nanos may be fast but they can be caught and popped it will just take coordination and a change in stategy and well for those of you who are afraid of NOS - grow up and stop being noobs. Get your skills up and you will change your mind. Bhead - If you can't fly a frig - GO HOME!!!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.12 03:39:00 - [97] shrug If nanosetups get nerfed, i'll just go back to vagabond... It feels kinda useless atm since i can be ten times as effective in nanophoon :P All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
kessah Caldari Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.01.12 05:21:00 - [98] My personal view is its a waste of a battleship. They are silly setup's - Battleships shouldnt really be allowed to travel that fast anyways. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate 2
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.12 10:24:00 - [99] err...i only see 2 kind of people posting here, the ones who think the nano-nos combination are totaly wrong in terms of gameplay/phisics and the others who think someone is trying to steal their toys and after that they will have to turn miners... My problem isn't the fact the nano setups are uber or not, they are uber in some situations nad not so uber in others. For me the problem is that they make everyone use that kind of setup and it's not exactly a difficult setup to be using, i use it myself and i'm doing fine but i don't want to use it because is retarded, stupid and mindless...oh yes i forgot to say i can put my brains in energy saving mode Now there are some people who think not having to think is a plus in a game...i say to them, go back to... Also don't start with..."adapt and think in a way to counter it" ROFL THINK? i just do the some thing wow!!! Now i can say i'm an Einstein!!! The game will be excellent when there isn't 1 kind of setup above all the others in terms of choice, and when each kind of ship performs their role... Last night i went to a pub and tried to convince a WOW friend to play EVE, i talked about the uber PvP experience and when explaining some things i've talked about the insane battleships speed/maneuverability...next i had to heard him joking of the battlestar galactica chasing Vipers and turning like them... I got drunk after that...still am... I like my steaks bloody as hell
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Aramendel Although at that time there were no minnie recons. Which are an effective counter for nanosetups. They are? How do you kill a nanodomi with one, tell me? Because I fly Huginns and wouldn't even try ... For one thing, the inertia of a Domi makes it hard to slow it down with webs. When you have tackled one in a Huginn, you will be in full Nos/Neut range, so your cap will be gone in a couple of seconds and then you have a warp disruptor and 5 Ogre II on you. Good luck getting away or killing the domi before the drones eat you. ;-) (yes, you can keep him webbed if you have a cap injector and move out of non-faction scram range, but then he can run as well as you unless one of you has a faction scram - and he will still outdamage and outlast you)

City Chick	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:41:00 - [101] Ok i've not been playing this game for long so excuse me i'f i'm wildy wrong here. 1st, Kill the drones, dont waste your time shooting the nanowatsit, without damage it cant kill you. 2nd, its a bs for heavens sake, chances are if it wasnt a nanoblah it would be tanked and kill you anyway, dont fly without friends in low sec. OK so this nanojig is orbiting you, nossing you and droning you to death, call upon your friend in system to jump into his nano-cruiser (of any race , even a frig would work guys) nano-mate warps to you, its a cruiser or frig so can catch the nano-badi, web him and you pewn him. Why are you all complaining you just need to work together as a team rather than crying cos you got ganked while flying solo. Wise up guys its not the set up its your inability to pvp.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:20:00 - [102] no-one is 'crying' about being ganked... I see this whole "blah blah... crying about..." retort a lot around the forums - it's not big, it's not clever, it's just lame, so lay off it... Battleships going several km/sec wouldn't be so bad, if there was a corresponding decrease in manoeuvring i.e. virtually limited to a straight line. Anyway, this is all (somewhat) academic as the devs have stated at the fan-fest they are doing something about speed setups, and I doubt they are talking about touching interceptorsà ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:25:00 - [103] nano ships cannot be nerfer or minmatar will simply be out of game. Nano ships a very fragile and can be countered. Just use some dampeners to force them inside web range. Use heavy missiles. Hit them with a pair of heavy neuterers so they shut MWD down... use a huggin. If nanos are to be limited I demand that hardenesrand repairers can also be used only 1 per ship. And only 1 weapons per ship. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Silverized 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:26:00 - [104] Nanoships are the perfect antiblob weapons... they can cause big alliances civer damage + that speed fighting are much more fun then gate camping:) Nanoships are needed in this game. Its just alliance carebears that aint safe behind their huge camps anymore thats picking up a fuss with nanosetups. ------------------------------
Adamantium Beam	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:49:00 - [105] Originally by: Rivek There are plenty of counters to nanosetups. They are called interceptors with webs. There are plenty of counters to interceptors with webs. They are called nanosetups with NOS. Discust
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:55:00 - [106] I read the first two pages and didnt see anyone mantion this: Many ppl stated that "use a ceptor and web him". First of all you need at least 6-7 ceptors because 4 will be hit by one nos each and cant mwd or web and the other will need to cykle mwd away from the heavy drones. If anyone in a nanosetup jumps in to 6-7 ceptors and/or any gang with a huginn he is gonna mwd back to the gate (you always reach the gate if you get one cykle of your mwd running, by the time the webs have slowed you enough you are within jump range)and jump back. If you have a gang double that and half the gang jump to counter he will simply mwd back to the gate again and again until you mess up. Or if you have only ceptors and no big damage he can always ctrl+q and dissapear from you when he is in low shields or something. I wouldnt complain if any of the following was in game: 1. Web would instantly pull you to -90% speed (rather than gradually slow you down) 2. Webs have longer range then heavy nos. 3. Re-jump time is much longer then uncloak time.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:18:00 - [107] that would totally nerf interceptors and vagabonds :P All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:31:00 - [108] its funny how ppl cant adapt and just whine about setups just remmeber burn eden and wcs .... and they still whine cos they use damps now oh god if u all are to stupi just dont play this game or just Join 'Turby' channel ingame. Bring pie
Pharos Dei Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:48:00 - [109] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter its funny how ppl cant adapt and just whine about setups just remmeber burn eden and wcs .... and they still whine cos they use damps now oh god if u all are to stupi just dont play this game or just QFT!!! jeez nano setups are so easy to counter and only require a little thought, but nooo, lets nerf it!
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:50:00 - [110] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter its funny how ppl cant adapt and just whine about setups just remmeber burn eden and wcs .... and they still whine cos they use damps now oh god if u all are to stupi just dont play this game or just I have observed that the pilots out of the "Kemono." corporation have been trying to flame and troll any valid arguement put forward against nano-setups, without putting any arguement themselves, except "adapt or stfu" yeah very mature and logical thank you for the advice... "Doesnt your corp pvp tactics involve staying and fighting like a man instead of running around like girly boys in ur speed setups?" Oh I'm just trying to lower my self to the same lvl as you... now YOU STFU and put up some valid arguements with setups and counter-setups and maths or I'll personally call mommy and daddy ISD to lock ur ass up for trolling and flaming. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 13:56:00 - [111] Its not about stay and fight as a man or running as a girl. But stay and fight as a stupid man or run as a smart men. Read the Art of war before making any statements of what warfare is about. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:05:00 - [112] I really don't get the point of this thread. Nano setups enable speed tanks. Speed tanks only work if you are not webbed, since torps/cruises/whatever have so high explosion velocities with any bonus skills, you have to go "too fast" to actually get any damage reduction. Just one web on you drops your velocity enough for turrets to track, drones to catch and missiles to rip you to bits. Also, since you have sacrificed most of your hull hp with the nanos, a good sniper or two will rip you to bits from 100km away with a few volleys, way before you can get out of a bubble webbed, even with the "nber" setups. Best named webs 4tw... Fit 2 and he's slower than a freighter... Speed tanks are so easy to counter, it's just silly to complain about them... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:06:00 - [113] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Its not about stay and fight as a man or running as a girl. But stay and fight as a stupid man or run as a smart men. Read the Art of war before making any statements of what warfare is about. Really?? thank you kind sir.. as if i would care! I'm still waiting for the part where the valid arguements and maths pop up to make me ashamed of the crap I'm posting.. "Dual-MWD ravens" did get nerfed for a reason, dont you think? Oh I'm sorry I shouldnt overwhelm you with that many facts.. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:09:00 - [114] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: wierchas noobhunter its funny how ppl cant adapt and just whine about setups just remmeber burn eden and wcs .... and they still whine cos they use damps now oh god if u all are to stupi just dont play this game or just I have observed that the pilots out of the "Kemono." corporation have been trying to flame and troll any valid arguement put forward against nano-setups, without putting any arguement themselves, except "adapt or stfu" yeah very mature and logical thank you for the advice... "Doesnt your corp pvp tactics involve staying and fighting like a man instead of running around like girly boys in ur speed setups?" Oh I'm just trying to lower my self to the same lvl as you... now YOU STFU and put up some valid arguements with setups and counter-setups and maths or I'll personally call mommy and daddy ISD to lock ur ass up for trolling and flaming. we are better [ insert your corp/alaince here] we will kill [ insert your name here] we will stay and fight til we win and i dont fly nano ships if u interested so just stfu nano setups are only way to fights all those noobs who blob and stop insulting my corp cos u have no idea who we are .... Join 'Turby' channel ingame. Bring pie
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:10:00 - [115] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter its funny how ppl cant adapt and just whine about setups just remmeber burn eden and wcs .... and they still whine cos they use damps now oh god if u all are to stupi just dont play this game or just grow up.... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
zeroh Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:11:00 - [116] Originally by: Ice Breaker2 Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: MrTripps Originally by: Ice Breaker2 the man speaks the truth. LOL. Another familiar nanophone pilot. Mad props for finding and using that setup so well, but you know it is overpowered. That is why you use it. The folks saying stop whining and adapt don't know what they are talking about. They haven't been fighting these setups day after day. Sure there is a counter, but it is one that requires training another race's cruiser to lvl5 along with all the other recon ship skills. If anyone thinks they are so uber they can get them otherwise they are more then welcome to run over to Obe and try. okay, nerf nano setups, honestly we wouldn't care, and it don't change crap. we would just pwn with something else, then you would whine about whatever it is you think is overpowered then.. ok mrTripps you said if we come in comthing else we would get fair fights, but that my dear friend just insn't true. we came to visit your alliance in different ships (6slow-ass damage dealing BS to be more specific) u had 25ppl in local not including us and u guys still woudnt play, so we stoped. And u dont need to train for huginn/rapier just to stop nanophoon. every race has a ship witch is very good at stoping/making usesless a nanoBS/vaga/intys, you just need to fit them right. Some of northen alliance budies know how and has been very succeful at it. OH and nano setups are NOT overpowered in general. The people who fly them make seem so because it is us who spent millions-billions in implants, faction mwds, rigs...etc NOS should be looked at tho, but ccp should make that intys would be still afraid of going close range to BS Speaks teh truth
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:15:00 - [117] Web the ship. That easy. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:15:00 - [118] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Kagura Nikon Its not about stay and fight as a man or running as a girl. But stay and fight as a stupid man or run as a smart men. Read the Art of war before making any statements of what warfare is about. Really?? thank you kind sir.. as if i would care! I'm still waiting for the part where the valid arguements and maths pop up to make me ashamed of the crap I'm posting.. "Dual-MWD ravens" did get nerfed for a reason, dont you think? Oh I'm sorry I shouldnt overwhelm you with that many facts.. I am still awayting you to post any evidence that warfare should be only the way you want! It clearly is not! There is a whole race that the concept is defense by speed. Speed only helps above 2km/s dual MWD raven is WAY more powerfull than a nanophoon, and its not a ship supposed to go fast.. Matari ships ARE supposed to go fast! I am amazed how no one disscovered why so many nanos in use today. Simple. Warp Core Stab nerf! Lows to sapare go to nanos. Because a lot of people don't want to get into a fight with zero chance of getting out. You may not like this concept.. but is part of the game and lots of people want it.. its clearly the way for a matar ship to fight. Again.. go learn about warfare then try to speak as how someone should fight. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:22:00 - [119] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Kagura Nikon Its not about stay and fight as a man or running as a girl. But stay and fight as a stupid man or run as a smart men. Read the Art of war before making any statements of what warfare is about. Really?? thank you kind sir.. as if i would care! I'm still waiting for the part where the valid arguements and maths pop up to make me ashamed of the crap I'm posting.. "Dual-MWD ravens" did get nerfed for a reason, dont you think? Oh I'm sorry I shouldnt overwhelm you with that many facts.. I am still awayting you to post any evidence that warfare should be only the way you want! It clearly is not! There is a whole race that the concept is defense by speed. Speed only helps above 2km/s dual MWD raven is WAY more powerfull than a nanophoon, and its not a ship supposed to go fast.. Matari ships ARE supposed to go fast! I am amazed how no one disscovered why so many nanos in use today. Simple. Warp Core Stab nerf! Lows to sapare go to nanos. Because a lot of people don't want to get into a fight with zero chance of getting out. You may not like this concept.. but is part of the game and lots of people want it.. its clearly the way for a matar ship to fight. Again.. go learn about warfare then try to speak as how someone should fight. have to agree with u nano ships are hardest ships to fly u need to be skilled and know how to pvp with them cos u need to make just one mistake and then die problem is that most of nano pilots are more skilled and better pvpers then those guys who whine here its soo much time was told on eve forums adapt or die Join 'Turby' channel ingame. Bring pie
RuleoftheBone Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:22:00 - [120] From the OP: I just think all the other races are finally seeing how much fun it is being Minmatar and are trying to compensate QFT. This is such a depressing thread to read. Flying Minmatar is skill-intensive enough as it is. Now because a few folks fail to adapt or try different tactics the cry goes out "nerf this-nerf that". For the record...I don't fly BB's and have no wish to. But..nano-whatever's die too regardless of fittings. It just takes teamwork and skill to do it-and chasing away either is as good as a kill. Props to the guys who trained the skills to fly the things in the first place. And at ludicrous speed it is NOT easy to keep guns/NOS on target before zooming out of range is it? And when they land within a bubble filled with webs/scram points they go poof pretty quick The nano's/istabs allow my Rifter-Stabber-Rupture- Cyclone a chance to get into 7.5km scram/web range and tightly orbit the target sticking 2 pts/web to it while using a NOS (or 2) to help keep cap-intensive mods running and cause more headaches (cap drain) for the target. In return I sacrifice my limited ability to tank armor/shield and rely on speed (and well-trained NAV skills) to mitigate damage. The same nano/istabs also allow our zippy duct-taped ships to align on a dime and get into warp quick as well as having a reasonable chance to escape bubbles. These mods reward the pilot who invests significant SP in the Navigation skills just as you missile/drone spammers get rewards for training those skills..right? Missiles that never miss..drones...I cringe when I see drones heading towards me....especially when I have only targets/gates enabled on my overview. And...I really enjoy being able to hit speeds in excess of 3km/s in a Rifter and >2km/s in a Stabber for that special feeling of zoom zoom Adapt or die...nothing is fair! p.s. Someone mentioned cruisers are redundant now as screens for the heavies/anti-frigate support. You are wrong p.p.s. Leave NOS alone too. It is..again..sacrificing one thing (damage ability) for another (sucking your cap dry).

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:24:00 - [121] Dual danpen him. Then warp off. Simple.. or if he gets close web him. Or use a domination web.. and you know there are those nice gang warfare modules that can make a domination reach > 20 km... or take a huggin with domination alongside a BC and you can web him at 30 km... or simply use sentries drones and move a bit away from them.. they canb hit a nanoship very well at 30 km... Use the brain. There are the extreme nano setup that are indeed overpowered. But these are fault of the Gisty MWD and Snake implants. Not on the nanos or any other thing. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:25:00 - [122] Originally by: Mang0o Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Web the ship. That easy. yeah webb my vagabond.. i orbit at 18km and pwn whatever you fly.. Go back to wow and stroke your lousy little epeen elsewhere.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:28:00 - [123] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter we are better [ insert your corp/alaince here] we will kill [ insert your name here] we will stay and fight til we win and i dont fly nano ships if u interested so just stfu nano setups are only way to fights all those noobs who blob and stop insulting my corp cos u have no idea who we are .... So you wanna keep acting like an immature **, ur choice... I couldnt care less if u fly nano-setups or not, you're telling ur self that it is very effective vs blobs cause the fact is that you need multiple specialized ships to fight against that... blobs are not always consisted of nublars, what if a group of experienced pvpers blob with nano-setups? yeah right its definetly not overpowered.. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.**
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:31:00 - [124] Edited by: Galen Silas on 12/01/2007 14:29:36 Not only do i think a nano setup to be lamer than elton john but also pretty fairylike. Example... I was in my astarte and i have a full tank in the lows, cap injector (800's), with 6 heavy neutron blasters II's. This Euphoria Unleashed guy in a nanophoon had killed one of my m8's in his stabber then went after me in a belt. As the fight went on he went about 16 to 18 km away from me and had heavy nos and was pelting me with cruise missiles. No way whatsoever was i going to catch him, kinda lame where you can fit a setup where other people can't catch you. Kinda makes fighting not as much fun as it should be. I know as well that if he was within my range i would have chewed him to pieces.Then just to sound cool they make a post on there killboards about my corp being crap pvp'rs... hehe, personally i think it was a little backwards on that remark seeings how he was the one afraid to get shot.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:40:00 - [125] I can say its lame that you have a setup that can tank my guns!.. yeahh its lame i cant kill you Or your guns are lame they make too much damage for me to tank. GROW up! Game is about different tactics! If the nanophoon is not using Gisty MWD and snakes, a simple MWD II is enough for most command ships to get him or go out of 20 km monetarly to warp away! Damm i do this all time in my hurricane against vagabons! align to body.. wait he start the oposite direction part of orbit.. and then hit MWD.. I Usually can get out of 20km for a few seconds to warp. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Rasta Rocketman Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:42:00 - [126] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. Finally, someone with some common sense in this thread. Guys, just because you don't like that you are getting killed by these setups, doesn't mean they should be nerfed. Use your head, think about game mechanics, and come up with the best solution you can find. btw, i think the popularity is largely for solo/small group PvPers and is due to the ability to run freely from the uberblobs that alliances produce when you enter space they inhabit, and the ability to not have to commit 100% to a fight. If local fills up with friends of the guy you are engaging, you can always break off. In other non-nano ship setups, you are committed and will get ganked. _______________________________________________
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:44:00 - [127] Naming names and flaming gets us nowhere. This is not about "Omg my corp pwns your corp you noobs, blah blah" rhetorical BS. Also, I'd like to point out that this isn't a theme of just Matari ships being nano'd out, as a lot of people are focusing on the Nanophoon in particular. There have been a few posts in this thread that are actually on topic and mostly not whining/flaming etc, I'd like an actual discussion, not flames or "GROW A PAIR AND STFU". You look childish if you post like that. Whoops.
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Kagura Nikon I can say its lame that you have a setup that can tank my guns!.. yeahh its lame i cant kill you Or your guns are lame they make too much damage for me to tank. GROW up! Game is about different tactics! If the nanophoon is not using Gisty MWD and snakes, a simple MWD II is enough for most command ships to get him or go out of 20 km monetarly to warp away! Damm i do this all time in my hurricane against vagabons! align to body.. wait he start the oposite direction part of orbit.. and then hit MWD.. I Usually can get out of 20km for a few seconds to warp. Exactly what kind of a tactic is sticking about 18km from your target and leaving it as just that, not everyone fits a MWD dude, and that was something i tried but due to his agility and the speed he had i couldnt get out of his range. You say it's a tactic, it's a coward manuever, and thats probably why the devs are going to nerf it because they actually want people fighitng not being a bunch of pansies, and if you think I need to grow up and that i don't have enough brute force then come to Katugumur, Heimatar region, and we will see how much brute force i don't have.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:53:00 - [129] even if this opinion is very disliked by the op and his supporters: nanosetups, speed over armor and skirmish warfare is the only thing what makes piracy, a very popular playstile, surive these days. pirates in the old days of seafaring used light and fast ships to outmaneuver their prey while having less firepower and durability in confrontations with big warships. since ccp intorduced warp to 0 to releave tranquility from the bm mayhem piracy was hit bigtime. nanosetups and fast raidships are the consequent answer and adaption to this change. if ccp starts to further degenerate this game into a static "blob a) warps on blob b) and starts shooting primary..." this game will lose all its fun for a lot of ppl. alliances aren't the way to go and so isnt mining for open minded players, that is something i figured a long time ago for myself. players should always have the opportunity to choose between several playstyles without having trouble of convincing other players that it is ok. i dont believe that the devs easily make decisiions about nerfing of several key aspects of this game and i hope that ppl who are against this sort of playstyle have at least some tolerance towards those who play the dangerous game of "either be fast or getting grilled big time". I vote: Do not nerf the speed over tank alternative ! Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:57:00 - [130] Originally by: Rasta Rocketman Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Nanos are niche setups and can be countered. While they are a pain to deal with, there is no need to nerf them. I, for one, am looking forward to trying a nanophoon out. Finally, someone with some common sense in this thread. Guys, just because you don't like that you are getting killed by these setups, doesn't mean they should be nerfed. Use your head, think about game mechanics, and come up with the best solution you can find. btw, i think the popularity is largely for solo/small group PvPers and is due to the ability to run freely from the uberblobs that alliances produce when you enter space they inhabit, and the ability to not have to commit 100% to a fight. If local fills up with friends of the guy you are engaging, you can always break off. In other non-nano ship setups, you are committed and will get ganked. That's a really good point, it's all about the blobs, really. Hopefully the dev's solutions to blob warfare will nullify the need for these nano setups, or at least in the numbers they're found these days. I think with a person paying attention, there are few reasons to be caught by a nano ship. For example, if you are in a belt ratting, you should (if you want to survive) be relatively aligned for a Safespot, POS, or station, and have your scanner open @ max distance, 360 degree sweep. Watch local like a hawk. Warpout when local indicates a hostile or when you see an incoming ship on scanner. Of course if you get stuck at a gate, you're usually done for if you're trying to warp out, but that would be the case many times anyway. The good thing about nano-ships is that they normally don't operate within web range, so at least you can get back to the gate before it's too late, or back to a station. But that solves nothing aside from surviving to fight another day, it says nothing of catching or removing them from the area. Granted, I fit my Stabbers in a similar way, so that I can get out when I need to, but I am certainly not in an invincible state once I have engaged; I do take damage, and can be ganked. I can't orbit at 3500 km/s at 2500 metres and still hit, and I can't deny my target cap and still kill them efficiently. Neither can a Vagabond, which to me are built to be the speedy, GTFO ships when the situation goes bad. I've been on the hot end of the guns of a Vagabond on many an occasion, and I know how irritating they can be, but it gets more irritating when a ship with higher DPS and normally much lower speed can do the same thing, relatively risk free if they know what they are doing. Nano setups should be viable, but on certain ships only, and should not encroach on other racial traits (Minmatar - speed, bad tank) while maximizing their own racial strengths (Gallente - drones / Caldari - missiles).

Amiable Quinn Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:58:00 - [131] Well, one obvious counter to a nano-ship isà Another nano ship. Tbh I would feel a lot more uncomfortable about nano-setups if they were strictly limited to Minimatar, but practically EVERY race has access to a decent nano-setup BS or BC size ship (with the possible exception of the Amarr due to the difficulty of fitting non-tracking based weapon systems, but I would love to see an Amarrian get a nano-geddon to work). When in a group just have one of these ships set up with a cap booster and a web and bam, you have an excellent anti-nano ship that has the advantage of being a nano-ship itself. I find the Interceptor argument silly as what sane interceptor pilot would try to solo tackle ANY BS? NOS is the I-Win against ceptors, and what folks should be complaining about. I look at it more globally in the sense of what type of game do I want to be playing. Faster ships are just more fun to fly, more mobile and allow greater tactical diversity. It will result in more specialization (which in my mind is good). Instead of battles where you have blobs sitting at gates, now some of those blobs will need to be fast ships, or you will need to have roaming gangs yourself. Will nano-ships be difficult to kill? Yes. Will they be difficult to drive away? No. Will it be difficult for them to kill you? Most likely. I think the real problem is people donÆt feel satisfied just driving off their enemy. That is why you see such hostility to setups that are weak on offense but difficult to kill.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:01:00 - [132] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 12/01/2007 15:00:41 Originally by: Galen Silas Exactly what kind of a tactic is sticking about 18km from your target and leaving it as just that, not everyone fits a MWD dude, and that was something i tried but due to his agility and the speed he had i couldnt get out of his range. You say it's a tactic, it's a coward manuever , rant rant whinge moan etc etc random threats Consider: 1-Good tactics do NOT equal cowardice 2-Perhaps train MWD/nav skills? 3-EvE encourages team play and adaptation...try it-it works! 4-Forgive me for asking this...but are not Astarte's command-type ships designed to enhance a gang? If I am wrong here..never mind point 4.
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:06:00 - [133] Originally by: Reto even if this opinion is very disliked by the op and his supporters: nanosetups, speed over armor and skirmish warfare is the only thing what makes piracy, a very popular playstile, surive these days. pirates in the old days of seafaring used light and fast ships to outmaneuver their prey while having less firepower and durability in confrontations with big warships. since ccp intorduced warp to 0 to releave tranquility from the bm mayhem piracy was hit bigtime. nanosetups and fast raidships are the consequent answer and adaption to this change. if ccp starts to further degenerate this game into a static "blob a) warps on blob b) and starts shooting primary..." this game will lose all its fun for a lot of ppl. alliances aren't the way to go and so isnt mining for open minded players, that is something i figured a long time ago for myself. players should always have the opportunity to choose between several playstyles without having trouble of convincing other players that it is ok. i dont believe that the devs easily make decisiions about nerfing of several key aspects of this game and i hope that ppl who are against this sort of playstyle have at least some tolerance towards those who play the dangerous game of "either be fast or getting grilled big time". I vote: Do not nerf the speed over tank alternative ! Guess all i am trying to say is that the devs didn't give every ship an HP increase for nothing, they did it to increase the duration of fights, and make fights more interesting, generally to make the pvp experience more enjoyable. I think they also did it because people complained about ships not having enough HP to begin with. Must be pretty frusterating that the devs work on implementing this into the game and most people then turn there backs and say... "nah, just fit nano's and a mwd with a few nos and you will be fine", kinda like giving a kid a cookie because he whines about not having one then he throws it and down and walks away. I am a pirate also and i think this whole warp to 0 thing is great, my kill ratio has increased a lot since this, warping into a belt and knowing if the guy is on the complete opposite side of me doesn't really frusterate me anymore, thinking he will be like 35 or 40km away on warp in because of the preset 15km. only thing it affects is gates and stations. Nano-whatever is not fighting, it's simply just trying to find the easy(lame) way out of a situation, as a player I would rather die in a fight where I at least knew the other person wasn't afraid to get shot and had a little confidence in themselves.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:12:00 - [134] This debate is just the exact same as the "Nerf ECM" one we had not long ago. Fights in which you cant do anything except sit and watch ur ship die aint fun, thats for facts, then there is the fact that to catch a nano-setup u need another nano-setup.. this disturbingly reminds me of how ECM-hores said fitt ECCM adapt or die, in the end every single setup had at least 1 ECM mod on it.. in the end every single skirmish setup is gonna turn into a nano-rat-race. I am 110% confident in my arguements and know for sure that CCP is gonna nerf this, and definetly aint gonna spend more breath and efford to convince you "cool kids" who go around "adapt or die, adapt or die, nah na na na nah", since you were saying the same bull** when it was about ECM or the dmg mod stacking or the RSD BB of doom or dual-MWD ravens or WCS or whatever overpowered combination you find and think its involved alot of tactic and thinking so those who cant beat it are idiots. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.**
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:17:00 - [135] Originally by: Galen Silas Originally by: Kagura Nikon I can say its lame that you have a setup that can tank my guns!.. yeahh its lame i cant kill you Or your guns are lame they make too much damage for me to tank. GROW up! Game is about different tactics! If the nanophoon is not using Gisty MWD and snakes, a simple MWD II is enough for most command ships to get him or go out of 20 km monetarly to warp away! Damm i do this all time in my hurricane against vagabons! align to body.. wait he start the oposite direction part of orbit.. and then hit MWD.. I Usually can get out of 20km for a few seconds to warp. Exactly what kind of a tactic is sticking about 18km from your target and leaving it as just that, not everyone fits a MWD dude, and that was something i tried but due to his agility and the speed he had i couldnt get out of his range. You say it's a tactic, it's a coward manuever, and thats probably why the devs are going to nerf it because they actually want people fighitng not being a bunch of pansies, and if you think I need to grow up and that i don't have enough brute force then come to Katugumur, Heimatar region, and we will see how much brute force i don't have. I can pretty sure say that devs don want the game to be a pure simple mined game and they want speed to be a viable tactic. Or we would not have minmatar in game and missile explosion velocities would not be that high. I could say that is cowardice that you use any tank in your ship... yeah its coward. real man use nopthing but high slots for weapons and low slots for damage modifiers... again.. grouw up enough to understand this game is not about a single playstyle! Other popele like to play different. A minmatar ship can't outtank an equivalent gallente ship or caldari ship. So.. what are we suppsoed to do? Now try to setup a typhoon to see if its easy to make it go 5 km/s You will need faction MWD or Officer ones and/or implants. If that guy spent 1 billion on his ship he deserves to pwon. You could spend the same 1 billion in a Thanatos and kill him! And the brute force is my signature if you didn't noticed.. daaaaa If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:18:00 - [136] /signed
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:26:00 - [137] Originally by: Galen Silas Originally by: Reto even if this opinion is very disliked by the op and his supporters: nanosetups, speed over armor and skirmish warfare is the only thing what makes piracy, a very popular playstile, surive these days. pirates in the old days of seafaring used light and fast ships to outmaneuver their prey while having less firepower and durability in confrontations with big warships. since ccp intorduced warp to 0 to releave tranquility from the bm mayhem piracy was hit bigtime. nanosetups and fast raidships are the consequent answer and adaption to this change. if ccp starts to further degenerate this game into a static "blob a) warps on blob b) and starts shooting primary..." this game will lose all its fun for a lot of ppl. alliances aren't the way to go and so isnt mining for open minded players, that is something i figured a long time ago for myself. players should always have the opportunity to choose between several playstyles without having trouble of convincing other players that it is ok. i dont believe that the devs easily make decisiions about nerfing of several key aspects of this game and i hope that ppl who are against this sort of playstyle have at least some tolerance towards those who play the dangerous game of "either be fast or getting grilled big time". I vote: Do not nerf the speed over tank alternative ! Guess all i am trying to say is that the devs didn't give every ship an HP increase for nothing, they did it to increase the duration of fights, and make fights more interesting, generally to make the pvp experience more enjoyable. I think they also did it because people complained about ships not having enough HP to begin with. Must be pretty frusterating that the devs work on implementing this into the game and most people then turn there backs and say... "nah, just fit nano's and a mwd with a few nos and you will be fine", kinda like giving a kid a cookie because he whines about not having one then he throws it and down and walks away. I am a pirate also and i think this whole warp to 0 thing is great, my kill ratio has increased a lot since this, warping into a belt and knowing if the guy is on the complete opposite side of me doesn't really frusterate me anymore, thinking he will be like 35 or 40km away on warp in because of the preset 15km. only thing it affects is gates and stations. Nano-whatever is not fighting, it's simply just trying to find the easy(lame) way out of a situation, as a player I would rather die in a fight where I at least knew the other person wasn't afraid to get shot and had a little confidence in themselves. did u ever get ganked by 7 ppl while trying to have some fun raiding some belts in 0.0 ? it is not very enjoyable for a pvp experience if u ask me. especially those pvpers who dont fly in 10 man gangs for a gankfest would be hit by a nerf bigtime. there ppl out there who enjoy pvp in a solo way and not always in gangs. if ppl fly in gangs i would rather fit for tank and dmg as for speed. no offence here but no amout of hp or anything else will keep u alive as a pirate if u go 1 vs 1 and the guy u agroing has 20 friends in local. again pirates dont always have huge wallets or the time to fill em up properly and just want some fun. loosing dozens of ships the honorable way by staying even if the fight is going to cost u ur ship is just unreasonable for the pirate profession. again i not intend to offend someone by my opinion and theres ofc nothing better than a good long fair 1vs1 fight but still piracy isnt exactly fair 1vs1. its searching for possibilites. searching for ransom and/or loot by overwhelming prey and not an equal opponent who knows that ur coming for him. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:33:00 - [138] Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 15:31:20 "Nanoships are the perfect antiblob weapons..." It's actually more complicated, and rather silly when you look closer at it... even in this thread. According to people defending this particular tactics: * nano-setups are blob counters * "want to kill a nano-ship? blob up!" ... if we accept both these comments as true, then you have situation where this kind of tactics is some sort of self-propelling blob catalyst. I.e. the more people use the nanoships the more they force others to blob which makes more people use 'anti-blob' nano-setups which in turn forces people to blob up even more if they want to counter it... in the long run if blobbing is considered harmful, then the nanosetups are having negative effect on the game by encouraging the blobbing... with no real benefit offered in return. Then you have another aspect -- because the whole "just blob up!" advice is really just nano-pilots blowing smoke up people arses so they can still have their anti-blob fun and the only real counter to nano-setup is another nano-ship, when you get people to actually realize it then it becomes world where ultimately everyone and their dog runs the same flavour of the month (or blob, because they didn't get the memo yet or are still believing the "just blob up!" smokescreen) ... and really, the game where everyone runs the same thing isn't very exciting. We've been there quite enough times already by now --;;
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:38:00 - [139] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 15:31:20 "Nanoships are the perfect antiblob weapons..." It's actually more complicated, and rather silly when you look closer at it... even in this thread. According to people defending this particular tactics: * nano-setups are blob counters * "want to kill a nano-ship? blob up!" ... if we accept both these comments as true, then you have situation where this kind of tactics is some sort of self-propelling blob catalyst. I.e. the more people use the nanoships the more they force others to blob which makes more people use 'anti-blob' nano-setups which in turn forces people to blob up even more if they want to counter it... in the long run if blobbing is considered harmful, then the nanosetups are having negative effect on the game by encouraging the blobbing... with no real benefit offered in return. Then you have another aspect -- because the whole "just blob up!" advice is really just nano-pilots blowing smoke up people arses so they can still have their anti-blob fun and the only real counter to nano-setup is another nano-ship, when you get people to actually realize it then it becomes world where ultimately everyone and their dog runs the same flavour of the month (or blob, because they didn't get the memo yet or are still believing the "just blob up!" smokescreen) ... and really, the game where everyone runs the same thing isn't very exciting. We've been there quite enough times already by now --;; now you reaaaly confused me. If that weird confusion enhancing device the weapon you guys used to kill ASCN Titan? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:40:00 - [140] Originally by: Kunming This debate is just the exact same as the "Nerf ECM" one we had not long ago. Fights in which you cant do anything except sit and watch ur ship die aint fun, thats for facts, then there is the fact that to catch a nano-setup u need another nano-setup.. this disturbingly reminds me of how ECM-hores said fitt ECCM adapt or die, in the end every single setup had at least 1 ECM mod on it.. in the end every single skirmish setup is gonna turn into a nano-rat-race. I am 110% confident in my arguements and know for sure that CCP is gonna nerf this, and definetly aint gonna spend more breath and efford to convince you "cool kids" who go around "adapt or die, adapt or die, nah na na na nah", since you were saying the same bull**** when it was about ECM or the dmg mod stacking or the RSD BB of doom or dual-MWD ravens or WCS or whatever overpowered combination you find and think its involved alot of tactic and thinking so those who cant beat it are idiots. There is a big differrence. You here does not seem to knwo what really makes this setups ubber. Its not the nanos. Its the Officer and Gisty MWD and the Snake implants!! Try to make a nanaoship that works without those!! ECM was much more accessible to everyone. I would agree a lot. in REMOVE snake implants form game! and reduce the Uber Faction MWD. But leave nanofibers alone!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

Kiriz Zule Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:41:00 - [141] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 15:31:20 "Nanoships are the perfect antiblob weapons..." It's actually more complicated, and rather silly when you look closer at it... even in this thread. According to people defending this particular tactics: * nano-setups are blob counters * "want to kill a nano-ship? blob up!" Blobs are not the counter to NanoShips. Webs are. A Blob without a web is going to be a disappointed blob.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:45:00 - [142] Btw if nano are nerfed.. you will see the biggest havoc ever seen. All minmatar pilots will demand that no dual repair modules can be used, no 2 plates can be used! How in hell you want someone to use a stabber? Show me any good use for it that is not speed tanking? TRY!!!! Mke me a stabber with no spee dmods that can defeat a Vexor.. please... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ashiana	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:45:00 - [143] Damps. ECM. Drone Navigation Mods/Rigs (?). 15km web. Sniper ships. Fast tracking ships. Etc...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:47:00 - [144] Aa yes.. You made me remember. Try a celestis. Show me a nanoship that can beat a cellestis with 2 T2 Damp and 1 Web.... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:50:00 - [145] Edited by: Plymer Ization on 12/01/2007 15:48:20 Edit - nm, joke would be lost
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:03:00 - [146] Originally by: Galen Silas Example... I was in my astarte and i have a full tank in the lows, cap injector (800's), with 6 heavy neutron blasters II's. This Euphoria Unleashed guy in a nanophoon had killed one of my m8's in his stabber then went after me in a belt. As the fight went on he went about 16 to 18 km away from me and had heavy nos and was pelting me with cruise missiles. No way whatsoever was i going to catch him, kinda lame where you can fit a setup where other people can't catch you. That's your fault for fitting blasters. Nano BS have such a huge sig that any turret except for large long range turrets will track them. If you had rails you would have chased him off. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 - [147] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Btw if nano are nerfed.. you will see the biggest havoc ever seen. All minmatar pilots will demand that no dual repair modules can be used, no 2 plates can be used! How in hell you want someone to use a stabber? Show me any good use for it that is not speed tanking? TRY!!!! Mke me a stabber with no spee dmods that can defeat a Vexor.. please... Tbh no one is complaining about cruisers or smaller ships here, crow has an awesome speed tank, vagabond, saber, jaguar etc have all been around for awhile. But when BCs and BSs go ceptor speeds its wrong and thats what this thread is about. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 - [148] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Btw if nano are nerfed.. you will see the biggest havoc ever seen. All minmatar pilots will demand that no dual repair modules can be used, no 2 plates can be used! How in hell you want someone to use a stabber? Show me any good use for it that is not speed tanking? TRY!!!! Mke me a stabber with no spee dmods that can defeat a Vexor.. please... Tbh no one is complaining about cruisers or smaller ships here, crow has an awesome speed tank, vagabond, saber, jaguar etc have all been around for awhile. But when BCs and BSs go ceptor speeds its wrong and thats what this thread is about. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:21:00 - [149] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 12/01/2007 16:20:33 SO Lets restrain to BS? Cause BC cannot achive these speeds without using BS sized modules and these will gimp them completely and they cannot feed it for more than 3 cycles. Ok so your complaint is basically Typhyoon and Domni? Now try to make a Typhoon go 4 km/s without any faction stuff or any implant. You won't do it. Now Put that nanophoon attacking a AC tempest and it is TOASTED!!!! My ACpest uses 1 TP and 1 Tracking enhancer. A nanophoon will have a signature of 2000m 30% form TP and its about 2600. Not hard at all to hit it. 2600/4000 is 0.65 200/340 is 0.58. So in fact its EASIER to hit it than to hit a typhoon at its common speed without MWD. Please learn how game works. Really. Of course if you fit a full snake set and officer stuff. Then is almost impossible to kill it, unless you use something as expensive as it... like a carrier. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:42:00 - [150] I can only speak from personal experience, and no, I do not fly a nano ship. We found nanophoons and their cousins to be a bit frustrating at first, as it had been a long time since the days of dual MWDing Ravens and the like. Fortunately, todays incarnation of these ships are far, far less dangerous. We put some thought into how to deal with these ships and frankly we have far more kills on nanoships than we have losses TO nanoships. The ship most at risk to a nanoship is the lone pilot with no backup and only fitting close range weaponry while active tanking. Nanoships don't have the umpfh to take down anything else. What is really upsetting most people is not the amount of losses to nanoships. The true numbers are probably not that high. What is frustrating people is they are having difficulty destroying the nanoship before it escapes after an attack. To me, even if there were not effective counters, that is not a reason to nerf the tactic completely. I feel I must clarify a few points. 1: Nanoships, while difficult to catch with ceptors, are not really that difficult to hit. I recently ripped a nanovaga up pretty hard with medium artillary on my Hurrican, I might add that I had no tank on this sniper set up, forcing him to run long before I was in danger. If our tackling Vaga had shown up just a second earlier... 2: Missiles/web combo's are highly effective against them, but you have to develop tactics suited to your prey to apply them in this case. Old tactics leave you with a string of dead ceptors. 3: You really need to realize that the losses you DO have to nanophoons would probably have died even quicker if the ship had been in a more conventional setup. The only difference is that the nanophoon was able to easily escape afterwards. 4: Speed tanking is NOT a sign of cowardice. It is vital component of combat that has been around in one form or another for a very long time in EVE. If sitting there playing the "Who can do the most damage, who can tank the most" game was the only way to go in EVE, you wouldn't have any experienced players in the game at all. We would long ago have gotten bored and left. Heavy damage and heavy tank setups have their place, just as speed tanking does. Speed tanking could be toned down a "bit" on certain ships, but that's about as far as I will go. Otherwise, I might as well sit home with my game of Battleship on my lap. Conversely, there are other tweaks that could be made to make things more interesting instead of nerfing things. Missile that have explosion speed as their major bonus, instead of sig radius. Making them very effective against fast ships in their correct size category, but suck against other size vessel. Perhaps these could even be a variety of T2 FOF's. Faster webbing drones. Heck, you could even develop a module that affected a ships navigational control when using a MWD, causing the target to travel in virtually a straight line. Fanciful yes... but still better than nerfing fast ship combat overly much.

Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:53:00 - [151] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 12/01/2007 16:20:33 SO Lets restrain to BS? Cause BC cannot achive these speeds without using BS sized modules and these will gimp them completely and they cannot feed it for more than 3 cycles. Ok so your complaint is basically Typhyoon and Domni? Now try to make a Typhoon go 4 km/s without any faction stuff or any implant. You won't do it. Now Put that nanophoon attacking a AC tempest and it is TOASTED!!!! My ACpest uses 1 TP and 1 Tracking enhancer. A nanophoon will have a signature of 2000m 30% form TP and its about 2600. Not hard at all to hit it. 2600/4000 is 0.65 200/340 is 0.58. So in fact its EASIER to hit it than to hit a typhoon at its common speed without MWD. Please learn how game works. Really. Of course if you fit a full snake set and officer stuff. Then is almost impossible to kill it, unless you use something as expensive as it... like a carrier. Cut it with the personal attacks will ya? It just shows that you are a bullied lil boy escaping to the EVE universe to vent of ur frustration.. nothing more and nothing less.. Now back on topic, so you are telling me nano-mydon, and nano-drake are completely balanced and alright, dude the myrmidon does as much dmg as the domi and goes faster with a reduced sig radius!! BTW I am maxxed in gallente, and BC 5 etc etc so I shouldnt be the one complaining actually, but, I wont ever use overpowered setups, I never used a crow despite having ceptor 5 and cal frig 5, I never used a nos-domi despite having maxed skills for it, I never used ECM on my gank ships despite having maxed EW skills of all sorts. You know why? cause it is not fun for to use the flavour of the month overpowered tactic to win, I dont play this game to vent my frustration or any other sort of e-peening and escapism.. "Fun" for me is using the complete underdog-strategy and win, or at least try to win, that is my description of fun. Being forced to using flavour of the months pushes me even more away from this game.. Now you even know my personal reasons for my abitious posting in this thread.. I ***** HATE flavour of the months, it a no brainer in a thinking game like EVE. Oh btw since you like the nano-setups try out the nano-arbitrator some time.. before they all get nerfed to hell! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.**
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:56:00 - [152] "2600/4000 is 0.65 200/340 is 0.58. So in fact its EASIER to hit it than to hit a typhoon at its common speed without MWD. Please learn how game works. Really." ... so, uhmm. Let's see what you did there. You compared: (mwd-affected signature * target painter) / mwd speed = 0.65 vs: non-mwd speed / signature = 0.58 ... i.e. two completely different operations. While if we put non-mwd numbers to your first equation we get: (320 * 1.3) / 200 = 2.08 Please learn how the math works..? Really...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:26:00 - [153] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 12/01/2007 17:27:08 Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 16:57:12 "2600/4000 is 0.65 200/340 is 0.58. So in fact its EASIER to hit it than to hit a typhoon at its common speed without MWD. Please learn how game works. Really." ... so, uhmm. Let's see what you did there. You compared: (mwd-affected signature * target painter) / mwd speed = 0.65 vs: non-mwd speed / signature = 0.58 ... i.e. two completely different operations (reversed division order) While if we put non-mwd numbers to your first equation we get: (320 * 1.3) / 200 = 2.08 Please learn how the math works..? Really... Ok i Really missed that on the explanation. Anyway that shows tah a single target painter compensate for the nanosetup. And so many people say there is no way to counter a nanosetup. A single module is enough! But I am also making callculations with anormal tpyhoon using not a single speed mod. So it kind of balance out. Put overdrives on the non MWD one and you have it again simmilar.. or put an AB. The main problem are Snake implants that increase speed without increasing the signature. To the other poster... And I am not makyng any personal aatacks. I am just countering your posts because they are exaclty what I think should be countered. Completely non informed and biased posts of someone that want everyone to play like you do. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:43:00 - [154] this thread delivers, and was good entertainment at lunch to read some of these posts
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:50:00 - [155] Yes indeed Nerf the only advantage of minmatar! So those unimaginative players can kill everything with there I win setup! Smells raven pilot with torpedo complaint!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:56:00 - [156] Nerf the snake implants and everything will eb fine. Only problematic shipsa are nano Domni and phoon at over 7km/s All the slowers can be easily tacled with a stabber or 2. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:08:00 - [157] "Yes indeed Nerf the only advantage of minmatar! So those unimaginative players can kill everything with there I win setup!" If nano-setups are "the only advantage of Minmatar" then it means that's all the Minmatar players are using. How are then the kills they score with such single "i win" setup any more imaginative? Pot, meet kettle...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:14:00 - [158] "Ok i Really missed that on the explanation. Anyway that shows tah a single target painter compensate for the nanosetup. And so many people say there is no way to counter a nanosetup. A single module is enough!" Uhmm no; it shows the nano-setup with MWD blasting is roughly 3+ times harder to hit than the regular battleship moving at its base speed. All the target painter is doing there is modification of hit chance from ~0.5 to 0.65 (30% increase) but it's by no means compensating for the extra speed advantage. In order to compensate, the equation of "mwd speed * painter / signature" would have to be equal to "base speed / signature" ... while these numbers are 0.65 and 1.6 respectively (nearly 2.5x advantage to speed setup)
No21 No0b21	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:23:00 - [159] WoW, blablabla, whine whine whine, nerf nerf nerf, oh noeeesss. To me what it seems and whats needed is a good countermeasure against this type of setups. That does NOT involve in having a tackler or a Huginn. Sure Heavy Web drones might work against BS(as i wrote pre)but not all BS have 125m3 in drone bay size and they are a bit fragile and silly, and if they dont get them after some sec,s(after deploying) he might just as well not risk it and warp out. But i find that there is not much that you can use for getting one of those Stabbers or Vagabonds. Get it as in destroy it by yourself with a setup that would work effectively against them and in a ship in the same class preferably. What is needed is something that would really negate their speed advantage fast, so they dont get all to much time to warp out or out of scrambler range and then warp. Of course there should be some real negative effects to it too. Just a nutty idea, so dont hit me with the physics/noob wand. Maybe it shouldn't be in this thread but anyhow: Harpoon missiles? Or something that maybe would take the mass in effect and then have a variable/value for force? Making it make use of a launcher hard point would make it more unilateral and it has its negative effects and such with and compared to others. Not gonna go into to all in all... to lazy for this shat. Hope i made a good point. Yes, i am a noob, maybe even noob of the year? Donations would be cool. My sig is the best. And its blablabla on the forum...oooho.
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:29:00 - [160] Originally by: Plymer Ization Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. Nano-Cerb would be insane... the RoF bonus to HAMs would be just uber... too bad I can't fly Caldari i tried it..... it frackin sucks.... to do damage it has to be in web and nosferatu range, thus resulting in insta death as its tank is **** in a nano setup...... eeeeeeek my sig got nerfed again :(

Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:45:00 - [161] Originally by: Alpine 69 Originally by: Plymer Ization Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. Nano-Cerb would be insane... the RoF bonus to HAMs would be just uber... too bad I can't fly Caldari i tried it..... it frackin sucks.... to do damage it has to be in web and nosferatu range, thus resulting in insta death as its tank is **** in a nano setup...... Really? Even with the bonuses? Bummer. Well, not really, but yeah
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:54:00 - [162] Originally by: Alpine 69 Originally by: Plymer Ization Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I've seen a nano cerberus wreak total havoc... You can nano everything, these days. The possibilities haven't been fully explored. Nano-Cerb would be insane... the RoF bonus to HAMs would be just uber... too bad I can't fly Caldari i tried it..... it frackin sucks.... to do damage it has to be in web and nosferatu range, thus resulting in insta death as its tank is **** in a nano setup...... Use heavies it works a charm. Pity the fool
Amiable Quinn Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:02:00 - [163] Originally by: Kunming Now back on topic, so you are telling me nano-mydon, and nano-drake are completely balanced and alright, dude the myrmidon does as much dmg as the domi and goes faster with a reduced sig radius!! I don't see why not, it is paper thin and once caught will go down quick. So, no, I don't htink any of us have a problem with it. Originally by: Kunming BTW I am maxxed in gallente, and BC 5 etc etc so I shouldnt be the one complaining actually, but, I wont ever use overpowered setups, I never used a crow despite having ceptor 5 and cal frig 5, I never used a nos-domi despite having maxed skills for it, I never used ECM on my gank ships despite having maxed EW skills of all sorts. You know why? cause it is not fun for to use the flavour of the month overpowered tactic to win, I dont play this game to vent my frustration or any other sort of e-peening and escapism.. "Fun" for me is using the complete underdog-strategy and win, or at least try to win, that is my description of fun. Being forced to using flavour of the months pushes me even more away from this game.. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you to fly anything. In ANY game you play some set-ups are going to be more effective than others. If you choose to play a setup that is not optimally effective, for whatever reason, good for you. But I fail to see what that has to do with the current discussion. Were you on the boards loudly complaining about the overpowered NOS-domi? Originally by: Kunming Now you even know my personal reasons for my abitious posting in this thread.. I ***** HATE flavour of the months, it a no brainer in a thinking game like EVE. Is it? Obviously someone had the idea. As the game changes people try out different setups. Part of the thing that makes the game wonderful is that it is fluid and you constantly have to be adapting your tactics, not only based on who your fighting, but on a macro level the type of ship you are likely to be fighting. Originally by:** Kunming Oh btw since you like the nano-setups try out the nano-arbitrator some time.. before they all get nerfed to hell! Please do. I don't actually fly a nano-setup, but I like to see what folks can put together. If it's really effective maybe you will see thousands of nano-arbiters zooming across the skies and have the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that it was your idea.
Larkonis Trassler Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:21:00 - [164] Small and medium turrets can track nanophoon's easy... Hell slap a couple of tracking mods on a BS and they can toast them too. I don't know quite how tracking works but even with orbit velocities of 4km/s Medium Guns can still track me, and I've been driven off by a solo ArtyPest packing the low end Large Arties with about 4 tracking mods in mids and lows despite orbiting him at about 3500m/s and with a tracking disruptor on him he was scoring hits approximately 2/3s of the time. People who complain about these ships are unable to apply a bit of lateral thinking to their PVP setups nor are they able to coordinate their gangs effectively to deal with the threat. Get a grip, get thinking and the fad will be over before you know it! ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:32:00 - [165] "Small and medium turrets can track nanophoon's easy... Hell slap a couple of tracking mods on a BS and they can toast them too. I don't know quite how tracking works but even with orbit velocities of 4km/s Medium Guns can still track me, and I've been driven off by a solo ArtyPest packing the low end Large Arties with about 4 tracking mods in mids and lows despite orbiting him at about 3500m/s and with a tracking disruptor on him he was scoring hits approximately 2/3s of the time." Out of curiosity, did any of these setups actually manage to kill you? (without any kind of external assistance)
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:37:00 - [166] just have to say one word Huginn. Nano-killers if you fit it right and/or have a friend in a BS as backup. __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside"
Larkonis Trassler Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:38:00 - [167] Originally by: j0sephine "Small and medium turrets can track nanophoon's easy... Hell slap a couple of tracking mods on a BS and they can toast them too. I don't know quite how tracking works but even with orbit velocities of 4km/s Medium Guns can still track me, and I've been driven off by a solo ArtyPest packing the low end Large Arties with about 4 tracking mods in mids and lows despite orbiting him at about 3500m/s and with a tracking disruptor on him he was scoring hits approximately 2/3s of the time." Out of curiosity, did any of these setups actually manage to kill you? (without any kind of external assistance) No... But they didn't die etiher. Your point is? ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
riffin Minmatar House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:38:00 - [168] Speaking from experience. . . nano setups are not "i-win"....just need the brains to counter them. A nano setup allows a player to go solo or in a small group and have some nice pvp. other wise most of the game's pvp has moved to large gank's and fleet battles. I have been taken down plenty in many nano setups. You just have to have a brain and some team work to counter. . .not just click engage grunt tactics that lazy players love. I do agree that nano bs's need to be examined. They are just to fast and agile for a clunky bs... *I can't find my keys!??*
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:46:00 - [169] Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 19:44:01 "No... But they didn't die etiher. Your point is?" Same issue people have with stabbed setups. If one side in the fight has two outcomes: "die or not die" and the other side has two outcomes: "kill or not die", then there's inherent lack of balance here that's beyond obvious. or in less words -- the worst outcome for the nano setup is what's the best outcome for ship facing them. Go ahead and try to explain how it's "working as intended" -.o
Amiable Quinn Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:01:00 - [170] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 19:44:01 "No... But they didn't die etiher. Your point is?" Same issue people have with stabbed setups. If one side in the fight has two outcomes: "die or not die" and the other side has two outcomes: "kill or not die", then there's inherent lack of balance here that's beyond obvious. or in less words -- the worst outcome for the nano setup is what's the best outcome for ship facing them. Go ahead and try to explain how it's "working as intended" -.o Well, there are plenty of situations in Eve where that is the case: Eg. Jumping into a warp bubble. Ganking a hauler. Attacking an NPCer. Fighting a "better" ship: eg a Vaga vs. a stabber. Basically there are plenty of setups that need counters, this is just another one.

Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:11:00 - [171] Originally by: Kunming QTF.. naNoS-setups gotta go! just give curse/pilgrim and other NOS/Neutz ships (the blood raider ones) a build in +1 NOS/Neutz per lvl bonus and add a low slot module that does the same so you have the option of a NOS-ship but it will definetly not be the absolute option to fit a ship like it is now. ECM, NOS, Nano, I-Stab, pre-castor gank setups... I think there is another problem why we keep seeing these "invulnerability"-setups, the ships and mods are always tested if they perform in their intended role, but I doubt there is a team within CCP that tries to create invulnerability-setup, since their only ambition is to "test" the stuff, if they had a testing team with the ambitions of "Wining" then all these overpowered setups would dissapear instead of being replaced by other overpowered stuff the next patch. BTW when are they finally gonna fire Tuxford? Signed
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:36:00 - [172] Edited by: Laboratus on 12/01/2007 20:36:01 Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Laboratus Stuff Web range = 10km Heavy Nos range = 24km Warp disruptor range = 20km Nano-setup orbit range = 15-20km Nano-setup speed = 3km/s upto 7km/s Web-drone max velocity = 1,9km/s So its soo easy to web nano-setups, since they keep hanging around web range, dont touch your cap, and the explosion velocity of missiles can easily catch up to 7km/s, while your turrets can easily track 3000m/s transversal velocity, and ur drones can catch up to them with their uber speed... even if you manage to web a nano-ship its inertia will be enough to move it out of web range while its speed is decreasing slowly instead of instantly! You have to be in a nano-setup yourself to web the other nano-setup or have a huginn (which is a specialist ship not a norm). No idiot is gonna take a nano-setup into a long range battle, its like taking a nos domi to a fleet fight.. invalid arguement really! Gate camps with bubbles you say? Nano-setups can easily move into jump range with 1 burst of the MWD. Domination web 15km, officers up to 40km? So? If he orbits at 15km, he is in my dps high point, so he will get the hot spewing plasma from my guns at their best. Percision cruise will rip him to pieces regardless, and normal cruise will do the same as soon as he turns MWD off again. Unless he has infinite cap, and I doubt he won't have, unless he hax, he won't be running MWD infinitely. And then my Web drones will catch up and he will be in a world of pain. Transvectral goes both ways, so either his guns will be unable to hit too, and the whole excersice has no point, or he will be gone as soon as he slows down, since he's got no other tank but speed. While I do. And at least according to the tracking guide, I can do enough damage to 15-20km with just neutron blaster cannons. Without damage or tracking mods, I'm getting 40% hit ratio at guess where? At my peak damage in 15km -20km. So orbiting at peak damage area without tank. Down nanoship, down. Anyways, the 7km/s doesn't seem to hurt dps as much as the increase in sig radius helps hitting the ship. With tracking and damage mods, It could be around 300-500dps. So at least blasters track that at that range. Pulse lasers can even use better damage ammo at that range. And, no, no-one will try to stick around in a situation, that is not advantageus for them, but that is excactly what skill is about. Ambushing and locking down someone so that you have the advantage in numbers. So, no, it ain't broken, it's just another way to play the game, and as more and more ppl are realising it, they are afraid of new things, instead of adjusting. Besides, using 1vs1 examples is redundant and non-constructive, as this is a multiplayer game, so usually you will have a lot more peeps involved. The game is not and should not be balanced around 1vs1, but at a larger level. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:47:00 - [173] Originally by: Laboratus I really don't get the point of this thread. Nano setups enable speed tanks. Speed tanks only work if you are not webbed, since torps/cruises/whatever have so high explosion velocities with any bonus skills, you have to go "too fast" to actually get any damage reduction. Just one web on you drops your velocity enough for turrets to track, drones to catch and missiles to rip you to bits. Also, since you have sacrificed most of your hull hp with the nanos, a good sniper or two will rip you to bits from 100km away with a few volleys, way before you can get out of a bubble webbed, even with the "nber" setups. Best named webs 4tw... Fit 2 and he's slower than a freighter... Speed tanks are so easy to counter, it's just silly to complain about them... with a good nano setup, webbing does not help. hit mwd 3 inties webb you you sail out of intie web range you hit warp That is the real problem, webs aren't an effective counter, becuase battleships hve enough inetia that it simply takes them out of web range.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:48:00 - [174] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 12/01/2007 19:44:01 "No... But they didn't die etiher. Your point is?" Same issue people have with stabbed setups. If one side in the fight has two outcomes: "die or not die" and the other side has two outcomes: "kill or not die", then there's inherent lack of balance here that's beyond obvious. or in less words -- the worst outcome for the nano setup is what's the best outcome for ship facing them. Go ahead and try to explain how it's "working as intended" -.o The nanoship sacrifices firepower and tanking power (it can only speed tank missiles and drones) for the ability to solo. A dual rep Domi, or tempest is a much more powerful ship than a nanophoon or domi. The only difference is that you can't effectively solo in those ships. Although it is hard to kill a nano ship without a rapier or huginn, it is very easy to force them to disengage. Nanoships are a step in the right direction for EVE as well. Every single patch pushes EVE PvP away from solo and small gang PvP towards blobs. Nanosetups that allow soloing are good. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.12 20:50:00 - [175] Originally by: Audri Fisher That is the real problem, webs aren't an effective counter, becuase battleships hve enough inetia that it simply takes them out of web range. Minmatar recons? Webs are a counter... I lost my last phoon to a bubble camp reaproaching the gate. A huginn with enough sensor boosters and webs will stop a nanoship pretty fast. Damps + ceptors also work well. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.12 21:08:00 - [176] Originally by: Audri Fisher with a good nano setup, webbing does not help. hit mwd 3 inties webb you you sail out of intie web range you hit warp That is the real problem, webs aren't an effective counter, becuase battleships hve enough inetia that it simply takes them out of web range. I've had the same problem myself, with Vagas. It's all in timing, and luck is not bad either. But, I have to say, that if inties are not going fast enough, there's something wrong with their setup... What was the speed record? 42km/s with a zealot? Can't remember... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.12 21:28:00 - [177] I have to agree that medium guns can still mess up Nanoships. I duelled a Sleipnir in a Nanophoon, and got out in... 18% structure, with a kill. Medium T2 guns are extremely nasty to something with absolutely no tank. Also, I battled a Megathron and tried to orbit him. Got driven off in about 20 seconds due to my overlooking the wonders of TDs ;) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
riffin Minmatar House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.01.12 21:48:00 - [178] Edited by: riffin on 12/01/2007 21:45:35 Originally by: Phelan Lore Nanoships are a step in the right direction for EVE as well. Every single patch pushes EVE PvP away from solo and small gang PvP towards blobs. Nanosetups that allow soloing are good. ----------\| <---- this is a nail and you hit it square on the head with the above quote. Players love blobs because it minimizes danger and it takes little skill. Anytime pvp isnt as easy as 1,2,3 (stabs, nano) players get upset. Blobs and fleet battles can be fun but small gang fighting and 1v1 is much more fun and challenging. Nerf nano BS's and figure out a counter measure for the rest... *I can't find my keys!??*
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:03:00 - [179] nano BSes have a sig radius larger than a moon, Have trouble running a MWD forever, have problems killing a well tought out passive tank, wide open to Damps and get hammered into puppy chow from most large/medium turrets. They're nifty but hardly pwnmobiles.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.13 00:29:00 - [180] gonna post this in both the nano threads, i think it kinda boils it down a bit..... only case i can see this as being remotely overpowered is when the nano is mixed w/ (one, combo or all) of the following: NOS, drones, missiles. guns cant hit at that speed. so that is balanced. nos? a full rack of nos is stupid. How does this mod not have hardpoints on ships just like guns and missiles!?!? Reduce a dominix's or typhoons NOS fittings to 2-3 hvy nos and you have fixed a big part of the problem drones? the DPS that can be killed. this is the argument that keeps drones in the realm of sanity. however, a bit of handy-work w/ quickly pulling back to drone bay and re-deploying can make it rather hard to even kill one. I would say the fix here is a delay (maybe 10-15 seconds) before you can pull back to drone bay could fix this missiles? if your target is hauling arse, your missiles wont hit him for much if at all. But if YOU are hauling arse, missiles have no prob w/ that. dont have a fix idea for this but i dont think its really an issue. not as much as the nos/drones bit i suppose in short. its not the nano setups that have to go. Its the 4-5+ hvy nos on a bs and the deploy/returntobay/deploy/returntobay that is causing the issues. Problems that have been around LONG before the nano-fad

Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:00:00 - [181] Originally by: HankMurphy drones? the DPS that can be killed. this is the argument that keeps drones in the realm of sanity. however, a bit of handy-work w/ quickly pulling back to drone bay and re-deploying can make it rather hard to even kill one. So how fast do your ogres go? Mine don't go 3-4k/s. Sniggwaffe is recruiting
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:25:00 - [182] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: HankMurphy drones? the DPS that can be killed. this is the argument that keeps drones in the realm of sanity. however, a bit of handy-work w/ quickly pulling back to drone bay and re-deploying can make it rather hard to even kill one. So how fast do your ogres go? Mine don't go 3-4k/s. hmmm..... good point. :P well, was looking for something more productive than 'nerf the nano's they are invincible exploit'. didn't really take the time to try and field a waterproof argument against the forum warriors. I just feel the issues ppl having vs nano setups stem from more than just the speed aspect.....
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:44:00 - [183] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: HankMurphy drones? the DPS that can be killed. this is the argument that keeps drones in the realm of sanity. however, a bit of handy-work w/ quickly pulling back to drone bay and re-deploying can make it rather hard to even kill one. So how fast do your ogres go? Mine don't go 3-4k/s. hmmm..... good point. :P well, was looking for something more productive than 'nerf the nano's they are invincible exploit'. didn't really take the time to try and field a waterproof argument against the forum warriors. I just feel the issues ppl having vs nano setups stem from more than just the speed aspect..... That is correct.. as you said above, NOS is a big factor here. I think we can even go as far as saying that the ECM in the NOS-drones/missiles-ECM combo is replaced by "speed". Speed on its own aint bad really (as long as BSs cant sustain the 4-5km/s MWD forever), I really enjoyed Wizie's vaga movies, but in both scenes (pre- and post-kali) we see "NOS" playing a big role in the overpowered setups ppl been complaining about... I'm just glad we are finally over the "You suck. No, you suck" period and going at the core of the problem. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Chillshock	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:44:00 - [184] Actually its not THAT hard to notice what ships were supposed to be that fast and which weren't. BSs in general werent. Even though flying like that may be fun it's most certainly not working as intended, no?
NAFnist Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:50:00 - [185] I got no beef with speed. Speed fight are often more intense, BUT the typhoon on a cheap setup going faster than many ceptors and with exspensive gear going ludicriuos speeds. Just doesnt make sense. Any other BS there's multiple counters to multiple setups. Info on what an oppont have fitted is crucial on nearly all other ships except nanophoons. This makes it almost a no-brainer to know what to run from. Picking targets is key in solo/small gang combat and once mastered in nanophoon its hard to get killed. Thats how I feel anyways... - Regards NAFnist
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:59:00 - [186] Edited by: HankMurphy on 13/01/2007 02:02:02 on another note (yeah yeah, not trying to be troll, but real bored at work) this is but one extreme ppl will be seeing in the coming months. introduction of pirate/faction implants, rigs and (not so much now but give it time) combat boosters are going to make certain ships pretty ballz to the wall. i'm not sure how fast ppl think these ships go, but the only nano setup i ever made just barely topped 3000m/s, and that was w/ optimal combination of Istabs/nanos and overdrive injectors. Given that is fast, but its not game breaking fast. My ship couldn't maintain its cap to leave MWD on through any type of drawn out fight and i had 4 nos fitted. (ie vs anything w/ a tank) In short, if you think this is a exploit, this is probly the tip of the preverbial iceberg. To be clear, i DONT think this is a bad thing either. This game is faced w/ an issue right now w/ solo and small gang combat vs blobs and the cure is remarkable piloting ability for those willing to risk their ships and pods laying defense on the line for suicidal offence. (and vice versa, ie: command ships w/ lacking offence to have insane tanking abliity) its the way of things to come and i think for the better. adapt or die ------------- edit to reply to above Originally by: Chillshock Actually its not THAT hard to notice what ships were supposed to be that fast and which weren't. BSs in general werent. Even though flying like that may be fun it's most certainly not working as intended, no? i dont see why theses speeds wouldn't be intended. why else would they have given us speed implants, gang mods, and battleship microwarp drives? ship size and speed is all relative. no reason a larger ship cant achieve same speed as a smaller ship as long as his ships drive is also larger. a couple thousand m/s really isn't exploit material imo
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:11:00 - [187] "The nanoship sacrifices firepower and tanking power (it can only speed tank missiles and drones) for the ability to solo. A dual rep Domi, or tempest is a much more powerful ship than a nanophoon or domi. The only difference is that you can't effectively solo in those ships." Except if one ship does something that another cannot do then it'd be that first ship that's actually "more powerful" in situation at hand. Or to put it in another way: more firepower or stronger tank are theoretical superiority. People fly the nanosetups instead because they turn out superior in practice ... the practice which in addition to calculations of dps and tank ability also takes into account the risk of dying and involved loss. "Although it is hard to kill a nano ship without a rapier or huginn, it is very easy to force them to disengage." And it's very easy for the nano ship to disengage when they choose so. So we have a setup able to pick weak targets and easily run if the odds are turned against them. Are you sure this is right direction for EVE to follow? If it is, i have to wonder why people choose to complain about ctrl-q'ing when facing unfavourable odds etc. After all it's the very same unwilingness to lose one's ship in situation where one doesn't have the upper hand... "Nanoships are a step in the right direction for EVE as well. Every single patch pushes EVE PvP away from solo and small gang PvP towards blobs. Nanosetups that allow soloing are good." See above. Add to it another consideration: this isn't by any means discouraging blobs. In the long run this is merely encouraging blobs of nano ships. That's because currently nano ships have upper hand when facing current model of slow, heavy hitters. When a nano ship is answer to fighting nano ships and allows to be effective against slow ships, switching to them is no brainer and eventually most of playerbase is going to head that route. At which point you start to experience the very same thing we got with regular setup over last couple of years -- people gathering up in numbers to ensure they can outdamage the other side running the same setups. Or in other words; you can consider interceptors a prototype of nano ship, in the sense they allow(ed) to roam and strike targets fast like no other ships in EVE. One could also make semi-silly argument their damage level is low to the point where it isn't that far off from current nano ships, for further similarity. Did it automagically made people roam in small gangs of interceptors? No, these who could would roam in packs of 20-40 to ensure they can kill anything on their way, single enemy interceptors and small packs of such included. This is that 'right' direction your EVE is heading to, except it's gangs of 20-40 nano-battleships zipping around. Why? Because they can and because it's safer this way than zipping around just as 1-2 nano-ships.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:16:00 - [188] Damp the nanoships, they can't lock at their 15-20km orbit. They either flee or try their luck by getting into web range. You can also WEB their drones and take it down while its owner tries in vain to recall it. Once the drones are down, they won't be able to dent you. Webbed heavies take half a year to fly out of web range, if you can't take them out then you only have yourself to blame. Are the majority of eve players wanting the game to become simple? They can't counter a tactic so they want to get it nerfed.. dumbing down eve is the worse thing ccp can do to this beautifully complex game.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:23:00 - [189] Originally by: j0sephine And it's very easy for the nano ship to disengage when they choose so. So we have a setup able to pick weak targets and easily run if the odds are turned against them. Are you sure this is right direction for EVE to follow? If it is, i have to wonder why people choose to complain about ctrl-q'ing when facing unfavourable odds etc. After all it's the very same unwilingness to lose one's ship in situation where one doesn't have the upper hand... There's plenty of ships that can do this already, none of them are nanosetups. As for willingness to lose your ship.. this isn't a chivalrous game. If it were, T2 producers wouldn't be charging through the roof, basically robbing everyone blind.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:55:00 - [190] "There's plenty of ships that can do this already, none of them are nanosetups." More specifically..? "As for willingness to lose your ship.. this isn't a chivalrous game." Precisely; hence why you're only going to see the safe setups like nano ships grow in numbers, to the point where they start to form blobs themselves. We already had it with the mwd stacking and then with the stabs. At certain point the number of ships running this sort of setup reaches critical mass where pretty much no one can really kill anyone without getting 5:1 odds just to prevent them from running away, and then the whining volume on the forum reaches comparably untolerable level, and the changes to mechanics follow. May as well learn something from the history rather than repeat it yet again o.O;

HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.13 03:11:00 - [191] Originally by: j0sephine "There's plenty of ships that can do this already, none of them are nanosetups." More specifically..? "As for willingness to lose your ship.. this isn't a chivalrous game." Precisely; hence why you're only going to see the safe setups like nano ships grow in numbers, to the point where they start to form blobs themselves. We already had it with the mwd stacking and then with the stabs. At certain point the number of ships running this sort of setup reaches critical mass where pretty much no one can really kill anyone without getting 5:1 odds just to prevent them from running away, and then the whining volume on the forum reaches comparably untolerable level, and the changes to mechanics follow. May as well learn something from the history rather than repeat it yet again o.O; so what would you suggest? stacking penalty on istabs and nanos? your still gonna see bs's goin a couple thousand m/s a ceiling on how fast a ship can go then? no more mwd's on battleships? you suggest we will soon be seeing entire fleets of nothing but nano ships... i find that kind of silly, but sure, why not..... then when they run into a regular fleet, end up spread out all over the battlefield and get pwned or run away they can ask their FC why the hell they all had to fit nano setups instead of tanks / regular setups as i've said multiple times, i dont think the issue is w/ the speed setups, i think the issue is w/ other game elements these setups take advantage of. so, is the anser then to nerf implants/gang mods?? if this is an actual problem.... then what is the answer?
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 03:32:00 - [192] Edited by: j0sephine on 13/01/2007 03:30:27 "so what would you suggest?" You have skipped page 3 of this thread, at least... because it's posted there ^^ although suggestions posted there are one approach (adjusting the hull modules in a way that affects large ships rather than smaller) Quite different --and am not sure if not more desirable-- way would be to hit the cap drain modules with velocity threshold* effect* similar to how explosion velocity works... i.e. mechanics where the greater is the speed vector between both ships involved, the less effect from cap draining modules. Done this way, it could throw a spanner into the 'orbit at full speed while both nossing to death and getting the cap to keep going' approach, while not removing possibility of doing either of these separately. A side effect would be reduced impact of heavy neutralizers on small and/or naturally fast ships though, which for some would be a blessing and for some a reason to complain. Like usual :s "then when they run into a regular fleet, end up spread out all over the battlefield and get pwned or run away they can ask their FC why the hell they all had to fit nano setups instead of tanks / regular setups " Wait; we have people using here the ability to "counter the blobs" by small packs of nano ships as primary argument why nano ships are needed. What makes you presume they are out of sudden going to fight on terms of the classic blob, nevermind lose? (other than wishful thinking)
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:30:00 - [193] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 13/01/2007 03:30:27 "so what would you suggest?" You have skipped page 3 of this thread, at least... because it's posted there ^^ although suggestions posted there are one approach (adjusting the hull modules in a way that affects large ships rather than smaller) Quite different --and am not sure if not more desirable-- way would be to hit the cap drain modules with velocity threshold* effect* similar to how explosion velocity works... i.e. mechanics where the greater is the speed vector between both ships involved, the less effect from cap draining modules. Done this way, it could throw a spanner into the 'orbit at full speed while both nossing to death and getting the cap to keep going' approach, while not removing possibility of doing either of these separately. A side effect would be reduced impact of heavy neutralizers on small and/or naturally fast ships though, which for some would be a blessing and for some a reason to complain. Like usual :s "then when they run into a regular fleet, end up spread out all over the battlefield and get pwned or run away they can ask their FC why the hell they all had to fit nano setups instead of tanks / regular setups " Wait; we have people using here the ability to "counter the blobs" by small packs of nano ships as primary argument why nano ships are needed. What makes you presume they are out of sudden going to fight on terms of the classic blob, nevermind lose? (other than wishful thinking) 7 pages is alot of pages to remember what everyone has said. i like the idea of hull mods affecting BS's different than smaller ships. but with rigs/implants/gang effects/boosters you are STILL going to see fast battleships. the variable nos per speed or vs smaller targets is also an option (and one i can be somewhat sympathetic w/). but if we gonna attack nos, lets attack nos, not mix it in w/ speed setups. and whats w/ thinking we suddenly gonna see fleets of these ships? 'oh noes, everyone is gonna fly nanophoon!" , well, it would still be better than when everyone flew ravens :P its vagaphobia all over again. its not overpowered, its not a win button, its a niche setup nothing more. when something is overpowered it needs nerfed. something is overpowered when its pro's far outweigh its cons and their aren't any viable countermeasures. In this case sacrificing your entire setup to be fast is definitely a big 'con' and there are a multitude of coutermeasures. whether its one ship or a fleet of them, a nano setup cant stand toe to toe w/ a regular setup. its a novelty and a gank ship at best. its not made for 'toe to toe' combat just as the vagabond wasn't and ppl dont like that. ppl also dont like that its outside the box, they aren't used to fighting it. no one like to have to think their way through a problem, ppl would rather the answer be handed to them (or in this case just make the problem disappear at the cost of a really fun aspect of the game) nanophoons have been around a looooong time, now that its popular its suddenly OVERPOWERED! I-stabs need backed off of, their effects are too big right now (thats right i said it!!!). But nothing is wrong with speed setups. they are fun... AND risky. this is the direction eve is going in. and i dont mean speed setups, i mean insanely specialized setups. many of us saw this coming w/ rigs and boosters. so, like i said before, adapt or die. but dont scream nerf everytime you have trouble killing a setup your not used to
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 05:25:00 - [194] Edited by: j0sephine on 13/01/2007 05:23:07 "i like the idea of hull mods affecting BS's different than smaller ships. but with rigs/implants/gang effects/boosters you are STILL going to see fast battleships." Of course; but the difference becomes if you will, like difference between what used to be pulse-geddon with all lows of the heatsinks and not even old stacking penalty applied, and the same geddon with the same guns but the damage mods conforming to current stacking model. A (relatively) fast battleship isn't a problem per se, what may be considered one is battleship-sized interceptor in terms of speed of agility (and especially when sporting battery of heavy nos to boot) "the variable nos per speed or vs smaller targets is also an option (and one i can be somewhat sympathetic w/). but if we gonna attack nos, lets attack nos, not mix it in w/ speed setups." I like the nos tweak better myself but i can't say with any certainty if focusing strictly on it would be best route. Since the 'problem' is mostly combination of high speed and the nos, perhaps effective solution would be also looking at both factors and tweaking each of them a bit rather than just one of them selectively and hard. Luckily for me 'tis something for Tux to solve and take the flack for :s "its vagaphobia all over again. its not overpowered, its not a win button, its a niche setup* nothing more."* Like flying with warp stabs- oh, wait ;s for all the arguments how it's balanced because it makes people give up all the precious lows which means no tanking ability yadda yadda... sounds familiar? ... the number of people who did choose them over questionable benefit of more damage or better tanks was rather overwhelming. "when something is overpowered it needs nerfed. something is overpowered when its pro's far outweigh its cons and their aren't any viable countermeasures. In this case sacrificing your entire setup to be fast is definitely a big 'con' and there are a multitude of coutermeasures." Sacrifice and countermeasures are base for theoretical nerfs or lack thereof, but generally something is deemed overpowered when it becomes close to mandatory (in the sense you are given odd stares if it's revealed you are not using it) ... in other words this is something that's judged by how the game population feels about it. Similar to how sacrificing your entire setup to fit rack of stabs wasn't generally found a big enough 'con' to not use them, and the widespread use led to equally widespread whining and consequently to the nerfs. "ppl also dont like that its outside the box, they aren't used to fighting it." Oh please. it's not "outside the box" when it's been a recurring theme in one slightly different version or another for what, two+ years now? People don't like to lose and they'll always try to maximize their chances to escape. (be it through stabs, logging or increasing odds to run out of scrambling range) There's nothing "outside the box" about it, 'tis the basic survival instinct and the ego at stake, combined ;s "But nothing is wrong with speed setups. they are fun... AND risky." I think we can cut the bull here, there's no need for it ^^ The setups are preferred because the risk of death is reduced, not increased. People play in ways that allows them to minimize their risk... and if they can delude themselves they're "underdogs fighting the odds and sticking it to the man" while at it, then that's the bonus that makes it fun ;s (i like the intie hunts and taking apart large targets with small ship is entertaining as heck, but i'd have to be mad to consider that more risk than taking that battleship single-handedly through enemy territory in regular combat setup. That is risky, perhaps even insanely so ¼¼;
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.13 07:10:00 - [195] There never was anything wrong with vagabonds; They are supposed to be fast, it's their role of the game. However, I recently see my vagabond collecting dust in my hangar and my phoon getting a lot more flytime. And actually, the people who fly nanoships, well... the most annoying ones have some of the following: 1. 26km+ Disruptor (80M+) 2. Gist B-Type/Core X-Type/Gist X-Type MWD(80m-150m) 3. 3x MWD/AB speed rigs (3*50m) Ok, so that's already 250-380m, depending on prices. Now add local hull nanos + shipcost + local hull istabs + diminishing nos. You basically got a ship that's costing 500m. Those are the ones that are really hard to catch, but they shell out an assload of money for them. Snake implants also cost, depending on the grade upto multiple billions. And now a fun question, have you ever tried pimping a nanohuginn ? It goes really fast with snakes + nanos and has 40+ web iirc. Anyhow, that's beside the point, I personally think there is something wrong, when my vagabond, which is supposed to be specialized at it's role gets everything done better by t1 battleships. Some kind of slight nerf is in order, but... I wish I knew how to do it without breaking the game really badly. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.13 07:39:00 - [196] Something that is mandatory is overpowered? There's way too many modules and weapons that are mandatory in eve.. they aren't overpowered at all. Simply they are effective at what they do and hence people use them. As for being widespread.. the raven is the most commonly used BS in all of Eve, more than twice the combined of other BSes. Does that make the raven overpowered? Nanosetups can be countered. It's just nobody bothers to do it and whine when they lose.. It's like the recent ECM nerf. Instead of buffing the ECCM modules as they should have done, (counter a module by using a module yourself) they just made ECM crap. If all the whiners keep asking for everything that is unique and special to be nerfed to oblivion.. why not go play another less complex game where theres no combat tactics used, just enemies sitting back pressing F1-F8.. oh wait, that's what blob pvp is all about. Stupid.
kessah Caldari Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.01.13 08:32:00 - [197] These setup's imho are not overpowered, but they do conflict with the nature of eve. Battleships arent ment to be fast not in this way. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate 2
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:25:00 - [198] As the popularity of these setups increased, i had to test it out. Since there are enough nanophoons and nanodomis and nanodamparavens I wanted to try something from WeHaveNoFunShips race. Obvious choice was geddon. Attempt n1: 8x heavy nosf... leaving me with 5x heavys, fail 2x heavy nosf, 6x dhp, few dmg mods, rest nanos... After trying it in practice, I realized i'm missing everything (with 40km orbit & scorch), cap didn't really last, even with injector... fail Attempt n2: Then I looked @ curse. While nano setup would work, I was not impressed by speed at all. Attempt n3: T2 amarr ships... apart from zealot they are heavy, lack midslots, no real shield resistance bonuses. Also no cap = no fun for amarr. So Ac zealot anyone? Oh and no dronebays worth mentioning. Attempt n4: Back to gheylente: nano... ofc domi and almost 1 year old lg talisman set pimped anew with cheap hardwirings and ship got few rigs for it's survival of 5vs north war. Result: ship going 4.7km /s, sucking 55cap/s and dealing 450dps (+ few small guns). Now what ship could really kill me(in 1vs1): Amarr race: dual domination web bhaalgorn has web range of 22.5km... 1 orbit on 24. His guns won't hit. Dual officer web to kill 250mil domi? Rest won't cut it. At all. Caldari race: Nothing can catch me, EW, damps etc can break my lock, but anything smaller than scorp will die horribly to drones. Gallente: nothing apart from dual web nanodomi that is faster than me. Again damps might be problem till drones do it's dirty work. Minmatar: huginn/rapier alone won't do it. Drones will kill them too, also there's high chance that they are in nos range... byby web. Nanophoon? No web, you can't do damage(and maybe i have web on 5. slot). So it's ship that's invulnerable in 1vs1 scenario. Ok so we need to bring a gang to kill it(no make him run doesn't interest me). So what does it take to kill it: 1. rapier/huginn (or 3x officer web bhaalgorn but then i'd rather have molle camping gate, more cost effective). Lachesis / arazu (he's too fast to be scrambled by bigger ships). 2x bs to deal damage. Result... I warp out, faster than frig. So they need dictor as well. I mwd away and warp out and without 2/3 huginns/rapiers I belive i'll survive 90% of such mwd out of bubbles & warp. It's I win button. Solopwnmobile. Etc. And needs nerf. -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve. McGreedy
Dathias CHON THE R0NIN	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:58:00 - [199] Edited by: Dathias on 13/01/2007 09:56:51 Oh .. we need perfectly balanced game. Um. what about only 1 ship type in game. All will be perfectly balanced I dont know how beat enemy. pls CCP nerf his ship. Thank you
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:04:00 - [200] Web the Ogre II, blast it to bits while it tries to be recalled going at 70m/s. Once a drone or two is down, the dps is laughable while you take out the rest and or extra reinforcement drones. The only time you don't target drones is if its a close range fight where they can rescoop and deploy quickly. But if it's orbiting at ~20km, and the drones get webbed, they simply POP!

Dix Neuf	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:27:00 - [201] Originally by: Zana Kito Web the Ogre II, blast it to bits while it tries to be recalled going at 70m/s. Once a drone or two is down, the dps is laughable while you take out the rest and or extra reinforcement drones. The only time you don't target drones is if its a close range fight where they can rescoop and deploy quickly. But if it's orbiting at ~20km, and the drones get webbed, they simply POP! Oh wait! While you're wasting time webbing a drone, your friend NOSDomi just killed your cap! Or deployed a new drone since he has 10 backups! Or a dozen things to utterly destroy you. If you shoot back, he runs away, no risk to himself. These designs are broken for one reason. It is not right for a single non-capital ship to require literally a gang of (bare minimum) 3 to kill. One of which is a Minmatar Recon, a Caldari Jamboat, and a damage dealer or two. Nobody should be forced to use a specific and prepared gang to kill one guy. Oh. And don't forget, if you miss one jam cycle, the jamboat dies to Ogre IIs. Then the Rapier/Huginn. Imagine if there was a midslot module called the 'Iwin' mod, and it was for interceptors. It let you tank 20k damage, move 5k a second and suck up 500+ enemy cap every 12 seconds. Now, it also provides 5 heavy drones with bonuses and replacements, or 4 torps and 5 drones. Congratulations, your interceptor is now the (short of massively prepared gang) pwnmobile NanoDomi/Phoon.
illusionary beauty	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:35:00 - [202] Nano ships esp battleships are riduclous. They can go to warp as fast as a frigate and can outrun most frigates. Add a nosing ability that can instantly drain a frigate you cant really run them down effectivaly with only a couple frigates. When one jumps into a dictor camp its nearly impossible to stop them from getting back to the gate because even if you get 10 webs on it 1 second after it decloaks it will have enough momentum to just cruise to the gate.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.13 12:01:00 - [203] While I have enjoyed reading most of the productive arguements on this thread it really is starting to remind me of watching my dog chase her tail My summary take: -It affects mainly solo pilots. I could care less as I like to fly as part of a team. If I really want to fly solo and enjoy realistic ACM I'll boot up IL-2 or something similar. -It's a niche speciality with known counters. -It costs a bomb to build and a ton of time invested in SP to fly properly. If you got the time and the dosh...enjoy. Also-this makes them a relatively rare type of ship to encounter. I think I have seen a couple in my neck of 0.0....Vagabonds are a far more common sight-and I cannot wait to fly one of those -It would be interesting to see actual statistics of nano-whatever kills versus defeats aside from anecdotal evidence to prove one way or the other. Not that it's going to happen (or is even possible to determine) and you can't point at killboards as losses are...shall we say..misrepresented -Interestingly enough a modern US Navy aircraft carrier is more than capable of outrunning the majority of existing ships large and small. Is there such a thing as a nano-carrier/dread? Size/mass does not always mean slow. I'll caveat my post by stating I am a small ship specialist (with the odd foray into a BC to support major fleet ops). Please leave my nano-inty's, nano-Stabbers, nano-Ruptures, and nano/istab/OD-Rifters alone please. I trained my NAV/ENG skills quite hard to be able to fly them effectively with the tools provided within the game. p.s. Solo combat in EvE really is a suckers game. If you can pull it off...power to you. p.p.s. Blob is a slight misnomer. It can be used to describe a gank squad of random ships of varying types-or-a fleet of tightly knit support/heavy support/BB's acting as one unit-more commonly known as a fleet. It just looks like a blob as there is no flat surface in space p.p.p.s. I'm still laughing at the solo Astarte pilot-what is the point of doing that?
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.13 12:09:00 - [204] Originally by: Dix Neuf stuff Um, if he has no guns and you kill his drones his dps is a flat 0. So it don't matter if you can't run your tank, since he is not doing any damage at all. And if you happen to fit a cap injector, you can merrylie laugh at him while you rip his untanked ** to structure while ing at his drones. A domi does cruiser class damage (<500dps) anyways, so your point isn't really viable there either. Yea, and the nanoships are designed for one thing. Running away fast. If they weren't able to do that, they would be absolute . Their damage is , their tank is , their overall performance in everything except running is **. So it ain't Overpowered. It's being able to pick the fun fights. If someone tries to blob you, you just vanish. It's called mobility. And even that can be taken away, if you are webbed. Just try out a few tactics and rip those nano ships to shreds. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Sari Yanma	Posted - 2007.01.13 12:34:00 - [205] Originally by: Laboratus So it ain't Overpowered. It's being able to pick the easy fights. If someone tries to blob you, you just vanish. It's called mobility. And even that can be taken away, if you are webbed. Corrected for you. I value not dying higher than killing. I'd rather boast a higher efficiency count than more kill and more death. Because I have a brain and can use it, I can avoid 99% of webs. Therefore I ride a nano'ed ship. Double MWD/AB was nerfed for a reason, I'm afraid. +20m/s and +30m/s should be converted to percentages, and suddenly, BS stop getting stupid speeds. And of course, NOS should be monitored and evaluated, but that's another topic.
Kalek Astroth Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.13 12:51:00 - [206] it' s nano time .... thats it maybe in some month something will change
Rastaf	Posted - 2007.01.13 13:15:00 - [207] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 11/01/2007 17:41:54 nanoships are kind of ruining the gameplay and I hope the nerf they talk about hits soon and hard. I'd also like a max. 2 nos/neut limit on ships without bonus for them. Regarding the speed nerf I think it's the penalties aren't severe enough, but atm I can°'t think on how they can nerf it enough... Battleships outrunning interceptors is not acceptable (not even if people paid many isk for implants and faction stuff) so I hope ccp gets a good solution. EDIT: Maybe we need to stacking nerf them, but I think ccp will have to reduce the effect with at least 5 m/s and 5% Agility increase... yeah lets make every single amarr ship useless!
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.13 13:32:00 - [208] Originally by: Sari Yanma Corrected for you. I value not dying higher than killing. I'd rather boast a higher efficiency count than more kill and more death. Because I have a brain and can use it, I can avoid 99% of webs. Therefore I ride a nano'ed ship. Double MWD/AB was nerfed for a reason, I'm afraid. +20m/s and +30m/s should be converted to percentages, and suddenly, BS stop getting stupid speeds. And of course, NOS should be monitored and evaluated, but that's another topic. Good for you. However, that means, you will not be though of as a serious risk, since you just run away. The +speed boni don't matter as much as the reduced mass and improved agility that improve the agility on the ships, making maneuvering possible. Originally by: Pinky Denmark Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 11/01/2007 17:41:54 nanoships are kind of ruining the gameplay and I hope the nerf they talk about hits soon and hard. I'd also like a max. 2 nos/neut limit on ships without bonus for them. Regarding the speed nerf I think it's the penalties aren't severe enough, but atm I can°'t think on how they can nerf it enough... Battleships outrunning interceptors is not acceptable (not even if people paid many isk for implants and faction stuff) so I hope ccp gets a good solution. EDIT: Maybe we need to stacking nerf them, but I think ccp will have to reduce the effect with at least 5 m/s and 5% Agility increase... How about a stacking penalty on damage sources such as turrets? And drones? And missiles? Redicilous? Thought so. If someone is running around with a 2-3B fit they should get a distinctive advantage from it. After all, with the same amount of isk, you can fit, say 15BS and 1 vs 15, they will surely spank the single ship. No-one is complaining about the other full faction fit + full faction implant sets, but rather accept it, that if someone is flying a full officer+faction geared ships, they do enough damage and tank better than most, and spand you in 1vs1. Adapt and survive, or you will surly perish. That is what the game is about. The forum whine is doing more harm to the game than any "op" module or tactic ever has. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.13 13:55:00 - [209] ive started flying a nanodomi as my general way of playing eve is to wander round solo killing stuff. to do this i need a fast ship to counter gatecamps. its fitted solely with t1 stuff and is disposable. it goes 2500 m/s which imho can be countered. i fly it because its a fun ship and cheap. i have lost numerous dronmes when ive had to warp off. i dont care as there t1. t1 drones are still good with good skills. i was gonna say their not overpowered, but b4 i managed to write this i just engaged some hostiles and saw their nanophoon go over 6000 m/s o.0. now im not so sure. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Sari Yanma	Posted - 2007.01.13 14:05:00 - [210] Originally by: Laboratus Good for you. However, that means, you will not be though of as a serious risk, since you just run away. Good. I like being underestimated. Of course, I won't cry at not being able to kill groups. I'll just enjoy dealing with poor solo guys (or run from them. But not dying from them, for sure). And someday, maybe I'll find nano friends, and we'll go guerillas on groups, dropping one or two volley of missiles, being impervious of missiles, guns, drones and NOS, and be gone before the group has time to deploy in interception, and probably killing a ship easily? A nice day for sure. Of course, if we see Huggin and Rapiers in every group, we'll know it's time to wake up, because it's obviously a dream. Originally by: Laboratus How about a stacking penalty on damage sources such as turrets? And drones? And missiles? Redicilous? Thought so. If someone is running around with a 2-3B fit they should get a distinctive advantage from it. After all, with the same amount of isk, you can fit, say 15BS and 1 vs 15, they will surely spank the single ship. No-one is complaining about the other full faction fit + full faction implant sets, but rather accept it, that if someone is flying a full officer+faction geared ships, they do enough damage and tank better than most, and spand you in 1vs1. Adapt and survive, or you will surly perish. That is what the game is about. The forum whine is doing more harm to the game than any "op" module or tactic ever has. Sad that "learn to adapt" (and its variations) is the most used up argument for hardly defendable causes in mmo. Most of the time, history proves it's followed with a nasty nerf. The nerf we're talking about concerned double/oversized AB/MWD. Do you honestly think the "My BS is going 3km/s, I don't see the problem" is going to hold for long ?

Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.13 14:20:00 - [211] Originally by: Sari Yanma Good. I like being underestimated. Of course, if we see Huggin and Rapiers in every group, we'll know it's time to wake up, because it's obviously a dream. I was in a terretorial alliance for a while (6-9 months?) and got used to "hearding" solo gankers. By moving camps a bit, if they are too fast to be intercepted, they can be quite easily "guided" to somewhere where they are no threat whatsoever to any ongoing operations, and as such quite trivial. As for huggins. The most common, and effective, I've seen in the last 6 months, 2 man team is a lachesis/arazu + huggin/rapier. I learned this the hard way (bye bye battleship), but when they get you damped, scrammed and webbed there is nothing you can do. Drones go inert outside control/target range (2-17km depending on original distance) while they happily nibble you to death. Sure, they don't nos, ECM or do huge amounts of dps, but since you can do nothing, but perhaps enjoy a nice pot of coffee while you lose whatever you were flying I find it a bit sad too. Eve is unique in the harshness of pvp and the fact that there are so many different ways to succeed in pvp. Every time that one of those ways is deleted by nerfing it to oblivion is a time when the game loses one of it's distinctive advantages over other games and steps towards being "just another MMO". I do hope the devs are not going to take this game to the altar of mass markets, but rather keep it as a unique niche game, as it is and as we love it atm. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Drek Grapper	Posted - 2007.01.13 14:21:00 - [212] Originally by: Ice Breaker2 Originally by: R'adeh What a stupid thread. Yes nanosetups are a pain to counter, but they drawbacks too. I can fit all nanos/inertias on whatever ships I want, but if I do that on an armor tanking ship, once I get webbed I'm dead. No speakworthy tank, nada, zip... If I rig for speed I'm behind enemy lines, solo or only in a small gang. Now, 0.0 space isn't "solo-player space". You are supposed to have friends there. Work as a team and suddenly it's easy to kills a nanoship. Stop asking for nerfs each time you think one ship is hard to kill. Adapt or die ffs!! Otherwise you can start a gazillion threads like: - OMGOMGOMG, Drake passive tank...haaaaaaaaxxx!!!!11!!! - Blasterthron's damage is sick!!!!11!!! - I have to fit a sensor booster to counter RSD11!!1!! Stop whining and play the frickin' game! the man speaks the truth. I agree. Havent read whole post yet....but it seems we going in circles here.
MOCC3	Posted - 2007.01.13 15:15:00 - [213] Originally by: Plymer Ization I was just reading the forums, like I do every day, and I came across the Nano-Myrm thread. It makes me wonder, what has caused this massive Nano/I-stab trend where every ship that can fit lots of Nos and a MWD suddenly becomes an uber solopwn ship that can't be caught under most circumstances? The pioneer of the trend in my mind would be the Vagabond (okay, no Nos here really). Then came the nano-Domi, then the Nano-Phoon, and now nano-ships seem to be popping up everywhere. I was ganked on the test server by a Nano-Curse on the test server the other day in a Vagabond I guess it could be worse, ECM could still be overpowered and then the game would go to hell, but really, are nano-everythings really in the spirit of gameplay? I know the devs have stated that they will be "looking into ships that are going a bit too fast", which leads me to believe this is not where they want the game going, with battleships breaking 3,000 m/s regularly Nos'ing every ship within 25km while orbiting and avoiding tracking weapons. I have to say, it would be quite funny to watch a fight between a nano-fleet, but I don't beleive for one second that it's in the best interest of the game if the trend continues. I guess I don't mean this to be a rant, just a musing of sorts on where and why this came about. Nano/I-stab ships certainly have drawbacks... Paper-thin tanks (aside from maybe a nano-Rohk or nano-Drake/Ferox), insane cap-dependancy, web-vulnerability (Huginn, anyone?), and a host of other issues, but the fact that they are SO good solo makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. Where does anyone see this going? When will it come to a head? Will we see nano-fleets duking it out between the likes of some of the biggest names in Eve? Conjecture! Paranoia! Tin foil hats! Tux blogs! I just think all the other races are finally seeing how much fun it is being Minmatar and are trying to compensate Question how long has the Nanophoon been around? Long long before REV. Why nerf something that has been around for a while? If u see a nano fit ship it has no tank. Its speed is its tank. Plz Don't say nerf it.. How about as gammers we try and find a way to beat them.. To beat a Nanoship solo is almost impossible unless u have a Minnie recon ship with you. so with that said run!.. Does Nano give u the I win button ? NO it makes most fights EZ. but in a gang fight u go down like a wet papper bag. So lets not Bitc-h lets try and get better with out PVP.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.13 15:37:00 - [214] Originally by: MOCC3 Question how long has the Nanophoon been around? Long long before REV. Why nerf something that has been around for a while? If u see a nano fit ship it has no tank. Its speed is its tank. Plz Don't say nerf it.. How about as gammers we try and find a way to beat them.. To beat a Nanoship solo is almost impossible unless u have a Minnie recon ship with you. so with that said run!.. Does Nano give u the I win button ? NO it makes most fights EZ. but in a gang fight u go down like a wet papper bag. So lets not Bitc-h lets try and get better with out PVP. Read though the 8 pages first then come back pls. Btw minnie recon wont really help u that much once the recon is nossed and eats couple volleys of missiles/drones its down. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Sari Yanma	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:01:00 - [215] Originally by: Laboratus (...) We'll have to agree to disagree, then. You say "No worry, they can't do anything to a serious pvp operation". I say "Since when serious pvp operation are the majority of people actions ? Most people in 0.0 and low sec are mining, ratting, complexing, pirating. Most often they are NOT in prepared gang, with clear objectives and strategic plans ahead. Maybe those operations have little to fear of nanos, but all the others, which I'd be surprised if it was less than 80% of 0.0 operations, are quite left in the cold." As for the last paragraph, well, I'd say many people tend to consider that their 'I win' button (or at least their 'I can almost never lose') to be original and distinctive, so I no longer offer value to this kind of argument. I, for one, have very little doubts on the stance the devs will take on this matter.
Ione Hunt Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:12:00 - [216] I think it's funny how some people complain that they can't kill bigger stuff with small ships anymore Oh noes, my recon can't kill that BS, wah wah wah PS: About scrambling and cap, I wouldn't mind if a scrambler needs no cap...it would make all those whiners saying you can't pin a nanoship down stop (hopefully) while still allowing for speedtanking. If gank and tank are allowed, speed tanking should be allowed too! _______________
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:25:00 - [217] Originally by: Sari Yanma Originally by: Laboratus (...) We'll have to agree to disagree, then. You say "No worry, they can't do anything to a serious pvp operation". I say "Since when serious pvp operation are the majority of people actions ? Most people in 0.0 and low sec are mining, ratting, complexing, pirating. Most often they are NOT in prepared gang, with clear objectives and strategic plans ahead. Maybe those operations have little to fear of nanos, but all the others, which I'd be surprised if it was less than 80% of 0.0 operations, are quite left in the cold." As for the last paragraph, well, I'd say many people tend to consider that their 'I win' button (or at least their 'I can almost never lose') to be original and distinctive, so I no longer offer value to this kind of argument. I, for one, have very little doubts on the stance the devs will take on this matter. Very well said. Let us agree to that ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Vixisti	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:38:00 - [218] To paraphrase, "Speed is good" It makes the game more fun and the variety of ships styles we are seeing popping up with rigs etc is super. Having said that, there should be a more available counter to the nano phoon/domi than having just one type of ship able to neutralise it ie: a minmatar recon. This is the role that interceptors have been screaming for, this is what they are made for! The only problem is that when you send a couple of interceptors after the nano ship to web it, as soon as they get hit by the heavy nos the web disengages and you're back to square one. The problem here isn't fast ships it's the use of heavy nos against small tackling ships that are custom built for this kinf of thing. Don't nerf speed setups, they're a huge ammount of fun to both fly and fly against, all we need is some balance on how to tackle them which as stated above could be done by using some sort of tracking calcuation to nos (LONG OVERDUE)so that inties could go off and tackle these beasts. PS adding range bonus to web on lots of ships would completely nerf interceptors so I'd have to vote against that idea.
Vixisti	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:38:00 - [219] To paraphrase, "Speed is good" It makes the game more fun and the variety of ships styles we are seeing popping up with rigs etc is super. Having said that, there should be a more available counter to the nano phoon/domi than having just one type of ship able to neutralise it ie: a minmatar recon. This is the role that interceptors have been screaming for, this is what they are made for! The only problem is that when you send a couple of interceptors after the nano ship to web it, as soon as they get hit by the heavy nos the web disengages and you're back to square one. The problem here isn't fast ships it's the use of heavy nos against small tackling ships that are custom built for this kinf of thing. Don't nerf speed setups, they're a huge ammount of fun to both fly and fly against, all we need is some balance on how to tackle them which as stated above could be done by using some sort of tracking calcuation to nos (LONG OVERDUE)so that inties could go off and tackle these beasts. PS adding range bonus to web on lots of ships would completely nerf interceptors so I'd have to vote against that idea.
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:45:00 - [220] after carefull reading i still think the biggest problem with the nanosetups are not because they are uber but because they make one kind of ship like a BS perform like a frig. I still think that's not logical, i don't care if they die easy or if they never die or if they kill 1vs1 or 1vs15...i really dont care, my problem is with the game as an whole and i don't like that "my" game is a joke with my WOW friends because my Battlestar Galactica performs like a Viper... Anyway reading the stuff you all wrote i see lots of dumb overused nobrain sentences and 1 valid argument, and the argument come from the Minmatar guys (no i dont fly Min) they cant tank so speed is their tank, simple, nerf nanos/istabs and give bonuses to some minmatar ships so they can use it to tank, also nerf NOS and we have the stuff like it should, people will still be able to use it to control range, the only ones appart from interceptors/frigs able to use the speed for tanking will be some minmatar ships, like the stabber etc...and without full racks of NOS maybe people start fighting with guns... oh, i must be dumb because i used a NANONOSDAMPDOMI for solo fun (not in this char...but i will use it again) I like my steaks bloody as hell

Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:45:00 - [221] after carefull reading i still think the biggest problem with the nanosetups are not because they are uber but because they make one kind of ship like a BS perform like a frig. I still think that's not logical, i don't care if they die easy or if they never die or if they kill 1vs1 or 1vs15...i really dont care, my problem is with the game as an whole and i don't like that "my" game is a joke with my WOW friends because my Battlestar Galactica performs like a Viper... Anyway reading the stuff you all wrote i see lots of dumb overused nobrain sentences and 1 valid argument, and the argument come from the Minmatar guys (no i dont fly Min) they cant tank so speed is their tank, simple, nerf nanos/istabs and give bonuses to some minmatar ships so they can use it to tank, also nerf NOS and we have the stuff like it should, people will still be able to use it to control range, the only ones appart from interceptors/frigs able to use the speed for tanking will be some minmatar ships, like the stabber etc...and without full racks of NOS maybe people start fighting with guns... oh, i must be dumb because i used a NANONOSDAMPDOMI for solo fun (not in this char...but i will use it again) I like my steaks bloody as hell
turnschuh Eye of God	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:58:00 - [222] 2 reasons 1) wcs nerf 2) Istabs changes
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 17:00:00 - [223] "Something that is mandatory is overpowered? There's way too many modules and weapons that are mandatory in eve.. they aren't overpowered at all." I didn't word it in the best way possible, but perhaps it was a mistake to hope the meaning isn't too difficult to grasp. There's items in game which can be considered mandatory if one wants to secure a kill (way to deal damage and something to pin the enemy down) ... and then there's items which are not technically required but are nevertheless fitted by everyone and the kitchen sink because they're considered noticeably more optimal choice than any possible alternative. It's the latter case that suggest something may be wrong with the module/combination thereof in question. "Simply they are effective at what they do and hence people use them." Precisely; something that's more effective than anything else you could fit instead may be (relatively) overpowered. It's not rocket science. "As for being widespread.. the raven is the most commonly used BS in all of Eve, more than twice the combined of other BSes. Does that make the raven overpowered?" Raven is most commonly used NPC battleship due to how effective she is while requiring little training to reach that performance. There's been numerous threads about how overpowered that makes both her and the missiles. And yes, it got the missiles nerfed, it brought the extra skills to missile branch to require larger investment of skillpoints etc. I wouldn't be very surprised if some further tweaks to Raven and/or missiles happened at some point down the road because like you point out, she's still considerably more effective in certain areas than other ships of her class. "If all the whiners keep asking for everything that is unique and special to be nerfed to oblivion.. why not go play another less complex game where theres no combat tactics used, just enemies sitting back pressing F1-F8.. oh wait, that's what blob pvp is all about. Stupid." "Stupid" part would be passing this sort of judgement with no personal experience of the matter at hand. If you think fleet combat is all about pressing couple keys and there's no tactical element involved... you might want to educate yourself.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.13 18:09:00 - [224] How do you deal with heavy nos as a tackler I for one cannot figure out how to avoid being just sucked dry by a heavy nos and unable to keep the web on... Oh wait thats right there is no counter to heavy nos besides more nos.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.13 18:38:00 - [225] Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus How do you deal with heavy nos as a tackler I for one cannot figure out how to avoid being just sucked dry by a heavy nos and unable to keep the web on... Oh wait thats right there is no counter to heavy nos besides more nos. Have somebody damp him. By the time he locks your interceptor he will be dead. Or you could fit a cap injector... Or you could fit small nos in your highs (it doesn't take very much cap to run a web). Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Hakera Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.13 18:42:00 - [226] Edited by: Hakera on 13/01/2007 18:39:06 I tried to approach this subject a few weeks ago. My thoughts have not really changed since, I still believe the effect of the combination of modules, tactics, gameplay changes are creating vagabonds out of ships that really should not have that role. Solutions are difficult. Class specific Istabs perhaps are one. Restriction to 1 istab only perhaps another. But in combination with WTZ, the change in agility and time to warp with the istab/nano combo, makes tackling impossible. Empire was has become one of the battle of the aggro flag. I dont buy the use huginn/rapier excuse, its a non-specific countermeasure that doesnt really work unless your in a blob. At camps, inertia will carry them back to the gate or out of the sphere within seconds regardless of how many webs are on them. In short, the istab/nano combo are too powerful when stacked alongside the zero effect on offensive capabilities such as nos, missiles and general huge amount of possible hp's, speed modifications like implants and rigs etc which allow you to make it out of range or back into range of a gate for eg. I really dont care how much of a tank the bs might not have, they should not be going above 2km/s and have agility that doesnt make them look like ceptors. Its skewing the advantages that are normally saved for frigates with few hp's and low dps, not bs with large hp and large dps.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.13 18:49:00 - [227] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus How do you deal with heavy nos as a tackler I for one cannot figure out how to avoid being just sucked dry by a heavy nos and unable to keep the web on... Oh wait thats right there is no counter to heavy nos besides more nos. Have somebody damp him. By the time he locks your interceptor he will be dead. Or you could fit a cap injector... Or you could fit small nos in your highs (it doesn't take very much cap to run a web). (sad panda) still training for a ceptor :\ bout another week to go.
Imaos	Posted - 2007.01.13 22:54:00 - [228] I think the real problem is that the speed modules favor big ships instead of the small agile ones. It should be vice versa. More speed to the smaller less damaging ships and more slugginess to the big ones. Especially as big ships have more slots they can dedicate there. 2% more speed per module for nanofibers instead 20m/s 3% more speed per injector instead 30m/s istabs need a fixed mass that get reduced instead of stacking nerfed %. That way big ships are slow and sluggish. Small ships are speedy and minmatar have the advantage of already low mass which the other races can't reach as easily. I hate many low bs being faster than frigs when both fit speedmods in low.
magnus amadeus Amarr Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.13 23:09:00 - [229] Like Hakera said above me... I do not think this issue just boils down to i-stab and nanos. Firstly a much needed nerf to NOS will go a long ways toward correcting the imbalancing gameplay that nanoships present. I think allowing 1 NOS per ship (like DCs or AB/MWDs) is a step in the right direction. Secondly the same problem currently exist in interceptors. The crow is all but invulnerable to all other ceptors due to missles. If some mechanic were introduced to give missles an inversely proportional relationship to speed I think it would help as well. I think that would be in the spirit of missles due to the fact the caldari race is by far the slowest. Drones are not that big of a factor imo because nano-pilots cannot use the scoop/deploy method to make the invulnerable so they are easy enough to kill. As far as a ship going 7km/sec? I have no problem with that. Oh and this whole made of paper argument is the same one people used with ECM.... it doesn't hold water. Makes me think all the ECM children just switched right over to nano-ships since we are hearing the same exact arguments. _________________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.13 23:37:00 - [230] The thing is, most people flying good nanosetups are experienced pvpers. A noob will die really fast in a nanosetup. Also, good nanosetup cost about 400-500mil for nanophoon, a bit less for nanodomi, and it can be vaporized really fast. Oh and that's without counting 1b or something on snake implants. If you make nanodomi or nanophoon without rigs, implants and faction mods, they will go like 2.5-3.5km/s...not any faster. That's with good skills. You can be killed by 1 Celestis and 1 Inty because celestis can damp you and inty can orbit at like 7km and you can't lock him. If inty has snakeset and istabs like you, then he can go 10km+ with faction mwd. It's not that hard to kill nanoship, the problem is that most ppl who fly them are really experienced, since unless you are ganking hunting raven in belt 1v1, it requires a lot of skill to fly fast ships. So we basically have some people who pay 500m for ship + 1bil for implants, and other people who pay 10m and want to catch said people. Pay a little bit more, use tacklers and EW, and nanoships will gtfo really fast. I really don't mind if they get nerfed though, it would make my vagabond fill a role again which no other ships can, and I would actually fly it again. Btw have you seen nano huginn? 5km/s+, webs scram, damps ? Try it sometimes, you will laugh so hard at most nanoships ;) All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide

Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.14 00:10:00 - [231] Originally by: Ryysa Btw have you seen nano huginn? 5km/s+, webs scram, damps ? Try it sometimes, you will laugh so hard at most nanoships ;) That is a scary idea. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Larkonis Trassler Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 02:13:00 - [232] Originally by: Ryysa So we basically have some people who pay 500m for ship + 1bil for implants, and other people who pay 10m and want to catch said people. Pay a little bit more, use tacklers and EW, and nanoships will gtfo really fast. QFT ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.14 02:25:00 - [233] Originally by: Ryysa Also, good nanosetup cost about 400-500mil for nanophoon, a bit less for nanodomi, and it can be vaporized really fast. Oh and that's without counting 1b or something on snake implants. My NanoDom cost 70mil including all mods. And I bought it in lowsec. No implants either. Quote: If you make nanodomi or nanophoon without rigs, implants and faction mods, they will go like 2.5-3.5km/s...not any faster. That's with good skills. Fit Inertial Stabs. Said NanoDomi goes ~3900 m/s. You do realize a regularly (ie NOT Nano/IStab) inty has issues reaching that speed, yes? Stock Taranis with MWD II and Nav 5/Acc Control 5 goes just under 3800 just for comparison purposes. Quote: You can be killed by 1 Celestis and 1 Inty because celestis can damp you and inty can orbit at like 7km and you can't lock him. I can lock at 7km perfectly well with 3 damps on me when sitting in said NanoDomi. Granted, it takes three minutes to lock an inty, but hey, what's that Inty gonna do? Or you could bring, like, Small drones (omg!). It's not as if Domi and Phoon have drone space shortage, you know. Quote: If inty has snakeset and istabs like you, then he can go 10km+ with faction mwd. Up to 13km/sec actually. And then do what? Get Nossed and die? Quote: It's not that hard to kill nanoship, the problem is that most ppl who fly them are really experienced, since unless you are ganking hunting raven in belt 1v1, it requires a lot of skill to fly fast ships. Utter complete bullcrap. My experience with fast ships is zero since I'm flying the slow, heavy, so called "close range" race whose ships turn worse than an Aircraft Carrier. Sitting in said NanoDomi was exactly as challenging as flying a standard missile Crow. Click Orbit, F1, F2, ..... wait... wait... wait more... chat with friends... make coffee... loot can. Quote: I really don't mind if they get nerfed though, it would make my vagabond fill a role again which no other ships can, and I would actually fly it again. Yeh cos you'd be untouchable again and only Vaga pilots would be able to choose between "kill or no-die" again instead of everyone who trained Mechanic to level 1. Quote: Btw have you seen nano huginn? 5km/s+, webs scram, damps ? Try it sometimes, you will laugh so hard at most nanoships ;) ORLY? Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.14 02:49:00 - [234] To the person saying that pirates of old chose fast light ships to counter the big lumbering combat ships, ie using small ships vs large ships WOW ! they used SMALL SHIPS ! THEY DIDNT USE MAN O WARS MADE OF PAPER TO CIRCLE THE MAN O WARS MADE OF WOOD AND BE COMPLETELY OUT OF HARMS WAY EVE caters to griefers in a large way. In most MMOs when you grief someone you just send them to the respawn point and they havent really lost anything. In EVE they actually loose quite alot of time AND money. The stereotype griefer uses fotm builds, is young'ish, antisocial, and generally comes with very few arguments and facts to back up their opinions. Thank you, virtuall all of you pro-nano'ers for reinforcing this stereotype Continuing these kinds of ships to exist in the game is an extremely efficient way to chase off new players whose only way to actually help and participate in pvp is to use frigs or to an extent cruisers. And its laughable that the fastest and most agile possible ship type in this game is also the biggest. Ofc, this is largely due to the slot limitation of smaller ships
ReePeR McAllem Amarr The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 02:51:00 - [235] Well said Shayla. /signed - down with nanophoons!! coconuts...
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.14 12:56:00 - [236] Edited by: Ryysa on 14/01/2007 12:58:22 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa Also, good nanosetup cost about 400-500mil for nanophoon, a bit less for nanodomi, and it can be vaporized really fast. Oh and that's without counting 1b or something on snake implants. My NanoDom cost 70mil including all mods. And I bought it in lowsec. No implants either. Quote: If you make nanodomi or nanophoon without rigs, implants and faction mods, they will go like 2.5-3.5km/s...not any faster. That's with good skills. Fit Inertial Stabs. Said NanoDomi goes ~3900 m/s. You do realize a regularly (ie NOT Nano/IStab) inty has issues reaching that speed, yes? Stock Taranis with MWD II and Nav 5/Acc Control 5 goes just under 3800 just for comparison purposes. That's a load of crap, your domi cost 65m, local hull istabs/nanos already cost 5-7m a pop, please stop talking bs, you've probably never even flown a nanodomi. Domi with 2x local istab / 3x nano does not go faster than 3000m/s without rigs. Fitting more than 2 Inertial Stabs gives you less speed than fitting 2 inertia stabs and nanos. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa Quote: You can be killed by 1 Celestis and 1 Inty because celestis can damp you and inty can orbit at like 7km and you can't lock him. I can lock at 7km perfectly well with 3 damps on me when sitting in said NanoDomi. Granted, it takes three minutes to lock an inty, but hey, what's that Inty gonna do? Or you could bring, like, Small drones (omg!). It's not as if Domi and Phoon have drone space shortage, you know. Err, actually, no you can't lock over 7km unless said celestis doesn't have any skills at all, if you want i can do the math calculation for you. In fact, you are going to have about 5km targeting range without running sensor booster. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa Quote: If inty has snakeset and istabs like you, then he can go 10km+ with faction mwd. Up to 13km/sec actually. And then do what? Get Nossed and die? If you have any EW ship with you, nanoship can't lock you. No lock = no NOS Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa It's not that hard to kill nanoship, the problem is that most ppl who fly them are really experienced, since unless you are ganking hunting raven in belt 1v1, it requires a lot of skill to fly fast ships. Utter complete bullcrap. My experience with fast ships is zero since I'm flying the slow, heavy, so called "close range" race whose ships turn worse than an Aircraft Carrier. Sitting in said NanoDomi was exactly as challenging as flying a standard missile Crow. Click Orbit, F1, F2, ..... wait... wait... wait more... chat with friends... make coffee... loot can. Maybe try killing something else than NPC hunter in belt with your nano ship? nooblet. I can kill hunter in belt also with my AC tempest, F1-F8, Rep on, make coffee. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa Quote: I really don't mind if they get nerfed though, it would make my vagabond fill a role again which no other ships can, and I would actually fly it again. Yeh cos you'd be untouchable again and only Vaga pilots would be able to choose between "kill or no-die" again instead of everyone who trained Mechanic to level 1. Vagabond is far from untouchable, you're just a nooblet who fails at eve. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Originally by: Ryysa Quote: Btw have you seen nano huginn? 5km/s+, webs scram, damps ? Try it sometimes, you will laugh so hard at most nanosh...
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.14 12:58:00 - [237] Edited by: Ryysa on 14/01/2007 12:55:43 Originally by: Jokim To the person saying that pirates of old chose fast light ships to counter the big lumbering combat ships, ie using small ships vs large ships WOW ! they used SMALL SHIPS ! THEY DIDNT USE MAN O WARS MADE OF PAPER TO CIRCLE THE MAN O WARS MADE OF WOOD AND BE COMPLETELY OUT OF HARMS WAY EVE caters to griefers in a large way. In most MMOs when you grief someone you just send them to the respawn point and they havent really lost anything. In EVE they actually loose quite alot of time AND money. The stereotype griefer uses fotm builds, is young'ish, antisocial, and generally comes with very few arguments and facts to back up their opinions. Thank you, virtuall all of you pro-nano'ers for reinforcing this stereotype Continuing these kinds of ships to exist in the game is an extremely efficient way to chase off new players whose only way to actually help and participate in pvp is to use frigs or to an extent cruisers. And its laughable that the fastest and most agile possible ship type in this game is also the biggest. Ofc, this is largely due to the slot limitation of smaller ships Go back to WoW. No really, do it. If you get ganked in a belt ratting you are already retarded, because you didn't warp to pos, when you had 1-2 minutes for it. EvE has risk vs reward factor, that's what makes it special, if you want to run back to corpse and respawn and PvE with no risk then go play WoW. Why do you come here? P.S. I have never gotten ganked ratting with npc setup by players, ever. I've played this game for a while. Mainly because I know how to pay attention to local. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Rak'Kabal Kain Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.14 13:31:00 - [238] Edited by: Rak''Kabal Kain on 14/01/2007 13:31:30 got web?? tho who whines the most shall prevail!! VC
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 13:56:00 - [239] Originally by: Ryysa That's a load of crap, your domi cost 65m, local hull istabs/nanos already cost 5-7m a pop, please stop talking bs, you've probably never even flown a nanodomi. Domi with 2x local istab / 3x nano does not go faster than 3000m/s without rigs. Fitting more than 2 Inertial Stabs gives you less speed than fitting 2 inertia stabs and nanos. There is a thing called insurance, meaning the actual cost of a domi is only about 25 mil. Cannot comment about the speed thing since I cannot lfy a domi. Should be able to "emulate" on the test server, but have problems with the latest patch there. Quote: Err, actually, no you can't lock over 7km unless said celestis doesn't have any skills at all, if you want i can do the math calculation for you. In fact, you are going to have about 5km targeting range without running sensor booster. You might actually want to run to math first next time, because 7km is exactly what a domi with long range targetting 4 will get when dampened by a celestis with 3 t2 SDs with cruiser and spec skill on lvl 4. Quote: If you have any EW ship with you, nanoship can't lock you. No lock = no NOS Not really. If you have a SD ship the nanoship will simply fly close and pop it. And ECM ship will get drone aggro. And you will also need a damage dealer in either case. That you need 3 specifically fitted ships to have a real chance of killing a nnaosetup is more a sign of its imbalance than it's balance. Quote: Maybe try killing something else than NPC hunter in belt with your nano ship? nooblet. I can kill hunter in belt also with my AC tempest, F1-F8, Rep on, make coffee. A ship with a PvP setup has about the same chance against a nanoship than one with a NPC setup. So that point is pretty pointless. Quote: Ya rly and it costs less than nanoship. Not after insurance payout. And also needs far far more training time and will die to an nanoBS easily. Doesn't changes anything there either.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.14 16:16:00 - [240] "P.S.P.S. Nanoships get really owned by lots of small ships." About anything dies to large pack of enemies, not like that's some unique extra kind of weakness nanoships have.

Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.14 16:24:00 - [241] Domi atm on TQ, with fittings worth 40m will go about 2500-3000m/s That's hardly anything terrible. I think people are mostly complaining about ships that go 6km+, That's the people who spend 1-2b. But nvm, it's pointless arguing with people who don't want to see the point. As I said earlier, I couldn't care less if nanoships get nerfed, I could fly my vaga which I spent several months training for and not get pwned by nano bs who spent a lot less time. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Neko Makai Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:00:00 - [242] Target painters w/ raven and cruises
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:11:00 - [243] Edited by: LUKEC on 14/01/2007 18:11:31 Originally by: Neko Makai Target painters w/ raven and cruises And ? If he can't win, he will just run. Great, eh? Btw, why do you need painters anyway? It's not like that it has too small sig. He's too fast, even for precisions (and they get reduced dmg from speed, not sig) And proper nanodomi costs maybe 200-300mil. -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve. McGreedy
Drek Grapper	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:25:00 - [244] Edited by: Drek Grapper on 14/01/2007 18:27:22 Originally by: Ryysa The thing is, most people flying good nanosetups are experienced pvpers. A noob will die really fast in a nanosetup. Also, good nanosetup cost about 400-500mil for nanophoon, a bit less for nanodomi, and it can be vaporized really fast. Oh and that's without counting 1b or something on snake implants. If you make nanodomi or nanophoon without rigs, implants and faction mods, they will go like 2.5-3.5km/s...not any faster. That's with good skills. You can be killed by 1 Celestis and 1 Inty because celestis can damp you and inty can orbit at like 7km and you can't lock him. If inty has snakeset and istabs like you, then he can go 10km+ with faction mwd. It's not that hard to kill nanoship, the problem is that most ppl who fly them are really experienced, since unless you are ganking hunting raven in belt 1v1, it requires a lot of skill to fly fast ships. So we basically have some people who pay 500m for ship + 1bil for implants, and other people who pay 10m and want to catch said people. Pay a little bit more, use tacklers and EW, and nanoships will gtfo really fast. I really don't mind if they get nerfed though, it would make my vagabond fill a role again which no other ships can, and I would actually fly it again. Btw have you seen nano huginn? 5km/s+, webs scram, damps ? Try it sometimes, you will laugh so hard at most nanoships ;) FTW Well said. Edit: It would be nice to hear more from people who have actually lost nanophoons and from people who have beaten them. Or are there none of them?
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.14 19:15:00 - [245] Well i did manage to lose one. Screwed up twice though, I had 2 chances to warp out, but I didn't. I had razor gang on my ass, with 2 other nanophoons who were going faster than me (gang skills, command ship), and crow etc, so we were just mwding into one direction and I was eating through capcharges, when the crow caught up I nosed it. After a bit I realized that there is no way out of this, and when my cap charges run out I'll most likely die. So I just selfdestructed, they didn't manage to catch me within the 2 minutes. Because I still had cap charges :P No killmail, no loot. Mind you, i was doing some 6.5km/s and they were doing 7.2-7.4 or so, and I couldn't mwd in different direction because there was crow also who would web me + other ships warping to their friends all the time. So there you go :P All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.15 13:33:00 - [246] Quote: That's a load of crap, your domi cost 65m, local hull istabs/nanos already cost 5-7m a pop, please stop talking bs, you've probably never even flown a nanodomi. Domi with 2x local istab / 3x nano does not go faster than 3000m/s without rigs. Fitting more than 2 Inertial Stabs gives you less speed than fitting 2 inertia stabs and nanos. 1) Insurance 2) I have skirmish warfare 5 and a covert alt so that gives me some extra speed (10% base to be precise). It goes 3900 just fine. Quote: Err, actually, no you can't lock over 7km unless said celestis doesn't have any skills at all, if you want i can do the math calculation for you. In fact, you are going to have about 5km targeting range without running sensor booster. As pointed out - learn math. Gallente Cruiser 5 and t2 Damps with Supression lvl 4 vs Long Range Targeting lvl 5 = 7700, lock range. Conveniently outside scrambler range. Quote: If you have any EW ship with you, nanoship can't lock you. No lock = no NOS "If you have an EW ship with you <insert generic ship> can't lock you. no lock = no <insert generic painful thing happening to you>" Your point? Quote: Maybe try killing something else than NPC hunter in belt with your nano ship? nooblet. I can kill hunter in belt also with my AC tempest, F1-F8, Rep on, make coffee. I can kill that AC tempest with the Nanoship using orbit F1-F8 no matter how uber you are. Cool eh? Quote: Vagabond is far from untouchable, you're just a nooblet who fails at eve. You're just little angry boy that doesn't want to see his immortal ships getting nerfed. Vagabond has been wrong for a long, long time. The stabnerf was supposed to get it in check a bit, but now we got this IStab crap. Quote: Conclusion - You're a clueless exaggerating troll with no skill who killed 1 hunter with nanoship in belt and thinks it's overpowered without presenting any proper numbers. And where exactly are your numbers? I got plenty and they're all right. But, sure if you want to put me at that level, then what are you? A level 4 Tauren Hunter trolling (or is that Taurening then) the Eve-O boards? Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.01.15 13:45:00 - [247] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux You're just little angry boy that doesn't want to see his immortal ships getting nerfed. Vagabond has been wrong for a long, long time. The stabnerf was supposed to get it in check a bit, but now we got this IStab crap. lol Vagas aren't very good. This coming from someone who pilots and kills them. Sure if you have full snakes and a faction fit and this and that, but any ship is going to kick ass and take names with a setup like that. Same goes for most nanoships as said above. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:32:00 - [248] Me and an enemy nanophoon decided to have a **ing contest earlier. We both went about the same speed. What I did was fly away from him and drop my speed below optimal until he got close, then dropped a field of heavy drones in his face. heavy web drones, to be precise. Sorta like chaff for missiles. He couldn't turn and run away in time, so boom, captured. He, on the other hand, used medium ECM drones. I never realized how annoying those were =P I had to disengage as the rest of the Xelas CowardfleetÖ arrived, but it looked like the webber drones were winning. So, no more whining about nano ships. Get creative with drones and the deployment of drones. ---------------------------- Originally by:** Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:52:00 - [249] Most people complaining seems to nevber have built a nanoship. As they clearly don't know where most speed come from. It does not come form istabs, since they are stack nerfed, so no one uses more than 2. Neither from the agility boost of nanofibers (they only improve the turning and acceleration. It comes from the crude +20-+25 ms thatr each nano gives to teh ship.. BEFORE the MWD is applied. The issue. Is a nanofiber gives same ammount of boost to a Battleship and to a frigate. If nanofibers increased speed in lest say.. 10% it would improve MUCH less the speed of Battleships, but would not affect nano setups on smallwer ships, like stabbers or ruptures. Can the anti Nano guys agree with that? Because limiting to 1 nano or 1 istab would completely cripple minmatar cruisers and BC. With that change Tphoon would still be possible to nanosetup, but for MUCh slower speed (like reduction of 33%) while other Battleships would not worth the effort. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:58:00 - [250] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 14/01/2007 16:25:01 Domi atm on TQ, with fittings worth 40m will go about 2500-3000m/s That's hardly anything terrible. I think people are mostly complaining about ships that go 6km+, That's the people who spend 1-2b. But nvm, it's pointless arguing with people who don't want to see the point. As I said earlier, I couldn't care less if nanoships get nerfed, I could fly my vaga which I spent several months training for and not get pwned by nano bs who spent a lot less time. Oh and btw, it's not the nanoships that are the issue, it's the fact that nos has no tracking, no signature penalty, nothing, it's the IWIN module, and nanoships use it. Nerf NOS and nanoships will be gone from the game as we currently know them. EXactly!! If you spend 2-3 billion on a nanosetup, it will be uber. But if you spend the same 2-3 billion you can setup a Vindicator or Machariel that will be equaly Uber... Much better to make NOS a Turret (with tracking) and solve all issues. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:59:00 - [251] "Me and an enemy nanophoon decided to have a ****ing contest earlier. We both went about the same speed. What I did was fly away from him and drop my speed below optimal until he got close, then dropped a field of heavy drones in his face. (..) So, no more whining about nano ships. Get creative with drones and the deployment of drones." So, what ship were you in that allowed you to move at the speed of nanophoon and deploy a number of heavy drones..? I mean you aren't trying to say what's already been said in this thread, that in order to fight nano-ship you need a nano-ship yourself? :s
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 16:03:00 - [252] He said he reduced his speed. So I suppose that meant that any BS with an MWD would do the job. Another tactic that works is drop sentry drones and move away (with teh annoship around you). When they have enough distance they will start hitting the nanoship pretty well(due to huge signature). So get a domini put sentries fit 4 smartbombs, kill his droens with the bombs and neutralize most of his torpedoes. With rest of slots with NOS you can counter nos him. OK.. nanoship down and you are not in a nanoship. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.15 16:27:00 - [253] i don't know at what velocity a BS should go, i guess is a just a matter of more power and is allways possible in the future to put a BS at the some topspeed of anything else but... it should take alot of time to gain speed, alot of time to loose speed and shouldn't be able to turn all because of their MASS at that speed, and i can't imagine a low mass BS...that's freakin stupid a lowmass BS should blow at the first shoot and in a tight turn would break apart and no i don't care if they are uber or not, if you want speed and agility you should use an interceptor or a purposed built minmatar ship (with mass bonuses but still wouldn't behave like a ceptor) I like my steaks bloody as hell
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 16:45:00 - [254] Originally by: Johann Jeneau i don't know at what velocity a BS should go, i guess is a just a matter of more power and is allways possible in the future to put a BS at the some topspeed of anything else but... it should take alot of time to gain speed, alot of time to loose speed and shouldn't be able to turn all because of their MASS at that speed, and i can't imagine a low mass BS...that's freakin stupid a lowmass BS should blow at the first shoot and in a tight turn would break apart and no i don't care if they are uber or not, if you want speed and agility you should use an interceptor or a purposed built minmatar ship (with mass bonuses but still wouldn't behave like a ceptor) dont try to put this type of tought in game. How big do you think ythe frigates are? Just look at their mass. They are more like RL ships. So your argument is not really solid. ALso a heavy armored battleships would not brake on any such type of movment (specially when it can survive warp acceleration). Minmatar ships are supposed to be fast. I think there isa passage on one of the eve chorinicles whre a typhoon charge on an Armageddon and it states it had time for only 1 shot before reaching the Ammarian ship. That is hardly anything under a pair of KM/s If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.15 16:48:00 - [255] Quote: ALso a heavy armored battleships would not brake on any such type of movment (specially when it can survive warp acceleration). well...this is really my point... I like my steaks bloody as hell
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.15 17:28:00 - [256] Originally by: j0sephine "Me and an enemy nanophoon decided to have a **ing contest earlier. We both went about the same speed. What I did was fly away from him and drop my speed below optimal until he got close, then dropped a field of heavy drones in his face. (..) So, no more whining about nano ships. Get creative with drones and the deployment of drones." So, what ship were you in that allowed you to move at the speed of nanophoon and deploy a number of heavy drones..? I mean you aren't trying to say what's already been said in this thread, that in order to fight nano-ship you need a nano-ship yourself? :s I too was in a nanoship, yes. But the idea is to make the nanoship charge at you. When he gets close and starts to pull up for his orbit (say at 40km away or so), drop the drones and send them after him. He should run smack into them. =P ---------------------------- Originally by:** Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.15 17:45:00 - [257] Edited by: Ryysa on 15/01/2007 17:51:34 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: That's a load of crap, your domi cost 65m, local hull istabs/nanos already cost 5-7m a pop, please stop talking bs, you've probably never even flown a nanodomi. Domi with 2x local istab / 3x nano does not go faster than 3000m/s without rigs. Fitting more than 2 Inertial Stabs gives you less speed than fitting 2 inertia stabs and nanos. 1) Insurance 2) I have skirmish warfare 5 and a covert alt so that gives me some extra speed (10% base to be precise). It goes 3900 just fine. 1) Runs out every now and then, unless you are a retard, you shouldn't get killed more often than that in nanoship. 2) You didn't mention this, did you? So a 60m domi still goes 2500m/s, having a skirmish warfare alt with lvl5 skill who will get owned by the next competent bubblecamp is hardly a factor in the equation. Quote: As pointed out - learn math. Gallente Cruiser 5 and t2 Damps with Supression lvl 4 vs Long Range Targeting lvl 5 = 7700, lock range. Conveniently outside scrambler range. Most inties fit 20km disruptor. Web range is 10km, your point is exactly what? oh also, don't forget that the inty can just move out of the lock range for a second, and that the BS will take what... 1-2minutes to lock the inty? Quote: "If you have an EW ship with you <insert generic ship> can't lock you. no lock = no <insert generic painful thing happening to you>" Your point? That nanoships aren't more invincible than any other ship. Quote: I can kill that AC tempest with the Nanoship using orbit F1-F8 no matter how uber you are. Cool eh? No you can't, try orbiting AC tempest, surprise, he has enough tracking to hit you, unless you are using snake implants+++ and going a lot faster than said 3000m/s. Having sig radius of 3km has something to do with it. Also, he can very conveniently kill all your drones. Quote: You're just little angry boy that doesn't want to see his immortal ships getting nerfed. Vagabond has been wrong for a long, long time. The stabnerf was supposed to get it in check a bit, but now we got this IStab crap. There has never been anything wrong with vagabond, you just don't fly one. Stabs made it hard to catch, so that every noob could screw up and get away. Screw up once in a vagabond now and you are toast, plain and simple. Btw my vagabond goes more than 5km/s without any istabs or nanos . But that's with snake set + faction mwd etc. You seriously have never flown a vagabond, and you probably have killed 1 hunter in belt with said nanoship. Btw vagabond can't kill anything pvp fitted which has half a clue of what it's doing, except inties/frigs/t1 cruisers. Everything else will easily tank vagabond until it's aggro wears out and then jump through gate. It only does 200-350 dps with casual setup, depending on how far you are in falloff. And it doesn't have enough nos to make it dangerous to a tank. You pvp on the forums, or test server most likely, please present some sort of proof that you have a lot of experience with nanoships? The fact that you mentioned that you "always have alt with skirmish warfare 5 with you" completely discredited anything you have to say. Originally by: Nicocat I too was in a nanoship, yes. But the idea is to make the nanoship charge at you. When he gets close and starts to pull up for his orbit (say at 40km away or so), drop the drones and send them after him. He should run smack into them. =P Finally someone who knows how pvp works. Mind you, unless nanoship has faction disruptor, and you have mwd fitted, you can just mwd in a direction with 1 cap inj boost, and he'll drop out of orbit, and you'll be able to warp off, or you can do it the other way around, and get him webbed. Either way, he's screwed. And web drones are scary little things, almost died to that once. If he has faction disruptor, you can have 14km web, costs about the same. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:27:00 - [258] "I too was in a nanoship, yes. But the idea is to make the nanoship charge at you. When he gets close and starts to pull up for his orbit (say at 40km away or so), drop the drones and send them after him. He should run smack into them. =P" And how do you suggest to put enough distance between a nanoship and yourself to make them charge you so you are able to deploy drones etc... when the other ship is moving 3-5 km/sec faster than your own ship? Short of them being dumb and trying to charge you from warp-in that's 80+ km away to begin with, that is...
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:30:00 - [259] Edited by: j0sephine on 15/01/2007 18:32:03 "That nanoships aren't more invincible than any other ship." This doesn't work. Here's your logic process: * nano-ships have far easier time running away than regular ships * nano-ships and regular ships are both vulnerable to EW * nano-ships and regular ships are equally vulnerable, period. (it ignores the aspect where these ships are less vulnerable, to achieve desired effect you're trying to sell) edit: "Mind you, unless nanoship has faction disruptor, and you have mwd fitted, you can just mwd in a direction with 1 cap inj boost, and he'll drop out of orbit, and you'll be able to warp off, or you can do it the other way around, and get him webbed." Agility/acceleration difference and speed difference. Very much like trying to web light missile nano-crow while flying rocket plate crow. As long as the other pilot has as much brain as you do, you can forget it. If they're more stupid (say, pressed f1-f8 and went afk) then well, it's not the setup that allowed you to get there but the pilot's shortcoming.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:48:00 - [260] Edited by: Aramendel on 15/01/2007 18:48:23 Originally by: Kagura Nikon If you spend 2-3 billion on a nanosetup, it will be uber. Exept this exactly is a whole load of bull. A nanodomi with none-faction fitting will "only" go 3 km/s. But now spend a meansly 200 mil for the best faction 100mn MWD and 3 vent rigs and you have an 90% better MWD speed compared to t2 without rigs. If you spend 1-2 bil on snakes (which, as a sidenote, if you halfway know what you are doing you won't loose when the ship goes boom) you can get it to 8-9 km/s, but 5-6 km/s for 200 mil is plenty of "uberness" to make it too strong - and still cheap enough to be a viable "everyday" setup.

Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:51:00 - [261] Originally by: j0sephine "I too was in a nanoship, yes. But the idea is to make the nanoship charge at you. When he gets close and starts to pull up for his orbit (say at 40km away or so), drop the drones and send them after him. He should run smack into them. =P" And how do you suggest to put enough distance between a nanoship and yourself to make them charge you so you are able to deploy drones etc... when the other ship is moving 3-5 km/sec faster than your own ship? Short of them being dumb and trying to charge you from warp-in that's 80+ km away to begin with, that is... Well, in a perfect world, not all PvP happens at a gate. If they jump in at 0 while you're at a belt, pray you have a SB and send the drones after him. He'll probably be entering orbit by then, though. If they're further away while in said belt, just eyeball it (remember that web drones have a 10km range too). Nanoships suck for fleet combat, so we'll skip over that. As for being dumb, well, a SMART pilot is hard to take down no matter the ship he's in, now isn't he? No module or item is foolproof, I'm just trying to offer options. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:59:00 - [262] Originally by: Nicocat As for being dumb, well, a SMART pilot is hard to take down no matter the ship he's in, now isn't he? No module or item is foolproof, I'm just trying to offer options. The point is that a SMART pilot in a nanoship is far far far harder to take down as a SMART pilot in a normal ship. They are not impossible to take down, no, and I think noone ever said this. But what is taking them down also kills normal ships as well (being dumb/not knowing how to fly ones ship included). But on top of this they have several situations where they can survive where a normal ship will die. But none where the opposite is the case. Resulting in a net advantage of nanosetups.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:22:00 - [263] Edited by: Nicocat on 15/01/2007 19:19:50 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nicocat As for being dumb, well, a SMART pilot is hard to take down no matter the ship he's in, now isn't he? No module or item is foolproof, I'm just trying to offer options. The point is that a SMART pilot in a nanoship is far far far harder to take down as a SMART pilot in a normal ship. They are not impossible to take down, no, and I think noone ever said this. But what is taking them down also kills normal ships as well (being dumb/not knowing how to fly ones ship included). But on top of this they have several situations where they can survive where a normal ship will die. But none where the opposite is the case. Resulting in a net advantage of nanosetups. I dunno. There's been a bunch of situations where I was in a nanoship and I thought "Oh, damn, I wish I was tanked right about now." Most situations that ruin nanoships but not normally-tanked battleships involve two people, though, not just one. Remember that medium guns still sting when you have no tank. (edit to actually make the point: fan out so the nanoship can't orbit one of you without running into the other) But I will admit, nanoships are excellent 1v1 ships, much like the nosecmdomi was (and the more recent nosdampwtfdomi is now). Unless you're creative, sneaky, or lucky, there's disparingly few tried and true ways to take them out. But they're there. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:27:00 - [264] Quote: 1) Runs out every now and then, unless you are a retard, you shouldn't get killed more often than that in nanoship. 2) You didn't mention this, did you? So a 60m domi still goes 2500m/s, having a skirmish warfare alt with lvl5 skill who will get owned by the next competent bubblecamp is hardly a factor in the equation. 1) Since when does base insurance run out? 2) I was talking specifically about MY cheap fitted Domi. It goes 3900 m/s with the alt out, which I forgot was the case when I posted. Quote: Most inties fit 20km disruptor. Web range is 10km, your point is exactly what? oh also, don't forget that the inty can just move out of the lock range for a second, and that the BS will take what... 1-2minutes to lock the inty? Most inties don't fit a disruptor. There's no chance you're gonna have a disruptor/MWD running constantly on an average interceptor unless you specifically fit for it. Fitting specifically for it means sacrificing speed. Also don't forget that getting locked = no cap = no disruptor or MWD = dead inty. Quote: That nanoships aren't more invincible than any other ship. The whole issue at hand is that they are. We're not discussing their damage output being omguber, we're not whining about their tanks. Nanoships can choose to engage whatever the ** they want to engage. They choose between killing and not dying. J0sephine's post hit the nail on the head and no other arguments can counter hers tbh. Quote: There has never been anything wrong with vagabond, you just don't fly one. Stabs made it hard to catch, so that every noob could screw up and get away. Screw up once in a vagabond now and you are toast, plain and simple. Btw my vagabond goes more than 5km/s without any istabs or nanos . But that's with snake set + faction mwd etc. Vagabond has the exact same issue a Nanoship has. You can't kill it while it can choose what it wants to kill. Sure it can't kill as much as, say, an Ishtar but an Ishtar tends to be easy to kill. Quote: You seriously have never flown a vagabond, and you probably have killed 1 hunter in belt with said nanoship. Flown yes. Extensively PvP'd in, no. I do however have three corp buddies flying it all day long and believe me, I know what it can and cannot do. Quote: You pvp on the forums, or test server most likely, please present some sort of proof that you have a lot of experience with nanoships? Didn't I say in my very first post my experience with Nanoships is limited? I'd appreciate if you could 1) would learn to read properly 2) cut the personal insults and discuss the issue at hand - Nanoships, or generally speaking, superfast ships, are "invulnerable" under the game's current tracking/explosion radius rules. Tell me, how is it balanced that a Nanophoon gets to choose between "kill or live" while the target can choose between "live or die"? I can't do anything but echo J0sephine's excellent analysis here. Quote: The fact that you mentioned that you "always have alt with skirmish warfare 5 with you" completely discredited anything you have to say. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I didn't say always. I said 3900 m/s with cheap fitting, you said bull. I went to game, noticed less m/s and then remembered the Cov alt. Besides, it's is ME with the Skirmish Warfare skill, not the alt, so in any case where I'm not alone the bonus usually applies. If you can do nothing but spray bullcrap and insults at this thread I suggest you just stay out of it and go abuse your Nanoships some more until they inevitably get nerfed. Originally by:** "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:41:00 - [265] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 15/01/2007 18:48:23 Originally by: Kagura Nikon If you spend 2-3 billion on a nanosetup, it will be uber. Exept this exactly is a whole load of bull. A nanodomi with none-faction fitting will "only" go 3 km/s. But now spend a meansly 200 mil for the best faction 100mn MWD and 3 vent rigs and you have an 90% better MWD speed compared to t2 without rigs. If you spend 1-2 bil on snakes (which, as a sidenote, if you halfway know what you are doing you won't loose when the ship goes boom) you can get it to 8-9 km/s, but 5-6 km/s for 200 mil is plenty of "uberness" to make it too strong - and still cheap enough to be a viable "everyday" setup. you only support my point that are not nano stuff that are uber, only the snake implants and the faction MWD. And with same price you can make a tank ship that will ignore any firepower incomming from a Nanoship. A simple Dominix with all rack of NOS and drones but heavily tanked will just sit there ignoring the nanodomini and killing its drones while counter nossing it About the nanoship running away. LIve with that! That is all what speed is about, the chance of running away! Not all combat has to be to death! Or stop with with heavy webber drones with him positioned between you and them (and you with web). No its not easy to kill a nanoship. But is also not easy to kill an uber tank ! LEarn something. There are plenety of people that will only pvp if they have a chance to get out, by speed of stabs. You can't change that. Remove that chance and they will only snipe or even not PVP. Play the game as you like and try to overcome the others that play the way they like. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:07:00 - [266] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 10:04:15 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Most inties don't fit a disruptor. There's no chance you're gonna have a disruptor/MWD running constantly on an average interceptor unless you specifically fit for it. Fitting specifically for it means sacrificing speed. Also don't forget that getting locked = no cap = no disruptor or MWD = dead inty. You don't need to run disruptor AND MWD constantly. Also, most inties DO fit disruptor. Both in gang and solo, the only time I wouldn't fit a disruptor, is perhaps on a close range inty set out to fight other close range inties. Not flying inties much are you? Btw, i killed nanodomi yesterday, i had nanophoon and we had falcon + crow. Not even a minmatar recon. Quote: Nanoships can choose to engage whatever the ** they want to engage. They choose between killing and not dying. J0sephine's post hit the nail on the head and no other arguments can counter hers tbh. That's the entire point of it. You want eve to dumb down to who has more numbers and better tank and guns? Completely take out EW, any tactics etc, for any decent fight, bring at least 10 people on both sides? It has been a very long time since someone engaged me on fair terms. VERY VERY long. A year ago maybe. Quote: Vagabond has the exact same issue a Nanoship has. You can't kill it while it can choose what it wants to kill. Sure it can't kill as much as, say, an Ishtar but an Ishtar tends to be easy to kill. That's because EvE was supposed to have guerilla ops, and vagabond is a role ship. The reason interceptors were made (and later vagabonds) is that all of eve doesn't come down to being a territorial carebear alliance with "the blob" in 0.0. But giving people a chance to enjoy different pvp styles. Quote: Flown yes. Extensively PvP'd in, no. I do however have three corp buddies flying it all day long and believe me, I know what it can and cannot do. I doubt you can, no exaggerated stories etc can replace on-hand experience. Quote: Nanoships, or generally speaking, superfast ships, are "invulnerable" under the game's current tracking/explosion radius rules. Medium guns track nanoships fine, megapulse / ac's track them fine, unless they have snake set + faction mwd. Quote: Tell me, how is it balanced that a Nanophoon gets to choose between "kill or live" while the target can choose between "live or die"? I can't do anything but echo J0sephine's excellent analysis here. He's setup for a different role. Again, something about giving combat more flavour? Quote:** I suggest you just stay out of it and go abuse your Nanoships some more until they inevitably get nerfed. Oh, I will abuse them. The fact is, which you really don't get, is that I'd love them to get nerfed. I trained 3 months for vagabond. 4 months after my training was ready for a specialized unique ship in the game, everyone got the ability to do what i can, better and cheaper. Kinda waste of skillpoints, don't you think? I'm pretty sure, i am not the only vagabond pilot feeling this way. Also, a competent npc setup can tank a vagabond almost forever, long enough for some help to arrive or to Gasp log off. So they're hardly overpowered. Fact is, my nanophoon with bs4, arbalest sieges and T1 drones (T2 get ganked too often) + Nos can kill things 3 times as fast as my vagabond with maxed out gunnery + spaceship command skills, while being nearly immune to NOS and costing 1/2 of the price. GG? As I said before, the nos is the problem, not the nanoships, people would stop flying nanoships, if they'd have to run injector all the time to go fast. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:15:00 - [267] Edited by: R''adeh on 16/01/2007 10:13:09 People should stop talking about the 6-7km/s nanophoon/domis. They cost over a billion and a lot more with the appropriate implants, need good navigation skills, and frankly, deserve to be that good at that price. You could also get a Vindicator and take on other BS 1vs2 and still win (Farjung) if you have that much ISK to spend. I see no one complaining "OMGOMGOMG, Vindicator won a 1vs2...and that Navy Mega just tanked our whole gatecamps!!!11!!!". Fact is, the average priced nanophoon/domi isn't that good. If I go only 3km/s in a regular, cheap nanodomi, then a single Huggin can take care of me. Nanoships add a bit of flavour to this game, you need piloting skill to actually kill 'em. I am sorry if others consider anything but the usual "approach, F1-F8" simple fights too difficult. Come up with some tactics and stop complaining about faction/implant setups, they are supposed to be ueber...how else would you justify the pricetag?? _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
Gix Firebrand Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:16:00 - [268] So am I correct to assume the only weapon avaliable to nano ships is missiles? Because of tracking issues?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:24:00 - [269] People that complain of nanoships are 99% of time one of the following: -Too narrow minded to accept that fighting is 100% about choosing a fight -Too narrow minded to accept tha tothers may not like the simple I have more tank than you so i Win game - Too Selfish to play in gang. really Learn to play! Get a ship to provite cover against fast ship! A hurricane with Falloff rigs or a Tempest with AC and tracking computers! A nanophoon is EXTREMELY easy target for a AC tempest!! So are the large drones of the nanophoon... Remove the NOS and the nanoships cant break any tank neither continue fighting for more than 1 minute. So .. wich is the problematic module? nanofibers or NOS? Clearly NOS! People using nanoships are the ones that got tired of teh stupid : I sit here out NOS and out tank you and win" stupid fight that was prevaling in EVE (just look at last tournament). Nanoships are fun! And game is about fun! If something is to be done, ask for CCP to give more counters to nanoships, not nerf them. How about light webber drones with high speed? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:31:00 - [270] Edited by: Aramendel on 16/01/2007 10:31:33 Originally by: Kagura Nikon And with same price you can make a tank ship that will ignore any firepower incomming from a Nanoship. A simple Dominix with all rack of NOS and drones but heavily tanked will just sit there ignoring the nanodomini and killing its drones while counter nossing it Not really. All it shows is that a ship with more nos can counter a nanosetup. "Counter" in making it retreat I might add. Everything else dies. Because even the best tank does not work well without cap. And if you now want to give me the bright response "not nano stuff is uber, only nos" nanosetups are not called that way because they are only using 1 nanofiber. It's the whole combination of them with nos, speed rigs (which keep getting cheaper) and the new instabs. Snakes and faction MWDs are only the cream on the top, but a domi or phoon can reach the magical 5 km/s area easily without them. Quote: About the nanoship running away. LIve with that! That is all what speed is about, the chance of running away! Not all combat has to be to death! The point is when a ship has a significant survival advantage it has to have some disadvantages to balance this. You do not see inties with the dps of battleships. Quote: No its not easy to kill a nanoship. But is also not easy to kill an uber tank ! It's fairly easy to kill a uber tank. You only need more Nos than it. Or more dps than it can tank at best. Nos > all works vs a nanoship, too, but you can have 10 times as much dps as you would need to kill it if it tanked normally, it would be of no use if you do not have the required specialized combo to take it down. Quote: Play the game as you like and try to overcome the others that play the way they like. My current main PvP ship is a nanocurse. The only way to kill it is either blobbing (which I can avoid since it handles like an inty) or another nanosetup which is faster than me (and has more nos power). Anything which is slower than it is killable (with the exeption of a too good passive shield tank, but you do not see many of those in PvP). I am trying to nerf MY way pf playing because it is plain out too strong.

Sadao Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:32:00 - [271] People have tried to gank my Nanophoon many many times, without success so far (except RZR that got me in Jita with a bit of lag :p Got that Nanophoon back with petition). One thing I can tell you, 720mm II fitted Muninn can easily track me, I actually had to run away from that one <.< And my orbit speed is around 4km/s at 26km. Dual Heavy Pulse II fitted Armageddon with Tracking Enhancer or two can track me easily too. It's not that hard to hit it, it's all about stopping it from running, which Rapier and Huginn are for and which I will run right away I see one on scanner ---
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:40:00 - [272] Considering this insane speed/agilitie is good for the game i think it should be a Minmatar thing, a special abilitie, but it had to have a more extreme bonus: the objective for these speeds would be to give the Minmatar usual PvP ships their tanks, therefore those modules would have to take great drawbacks in terms of armour and structure Bonus because those are the main things that should be affected by a mass reduction but should also reduce the sig. radius this way it would help the speedtanking thing unless with a ship bonus you could only use 1 of those modules per ship, and the ships with bonus for those modules, like 1 more module per skill level the ships with those modules would be all the interceptors and a few Minmatar ships used for PvP with only enough middle slots to be viable in PvP but not enough for shield tanking like (minmatar guys help me here, you can put other ships if viable): TYPHOON STABBER VAGABOND We would still have these kind of ships in the game but it would be a Minmatar characteristic, like the drones are gallente, or the Caldari are support/missions ships and Amarr are whiners ships (no ofense here you have a few great ships alot of lousy ones but the only thing really different are your paintjob) And then we would have a few anti-minmatars posts for a change Not sure if what i say is doable, just a thought, i'm just trying to make the game more "real" and at the same time not kill this kind of PvP ps: the NOS would still need a nerf, at least when a big one is used against a smaller ship I like my steaks bloody as hell
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:46:00 - [273] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 10:51:10 Originally by: Aramendel Snakes and faction MWDs are only the cream on the top, but a domi or phoon can reach the magical 5 km/s area easily without them. Wrong. To reach 5km/s without snakes, you need local hull nanos + istabs, low-end faction mwd, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs, and someone in gang with lvl5 speed skill. Btw, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs = 150m atm. Gist X-Type MWD also 150m, Core X-Type is 50m. Why do you even put rigs in the equation? Rigs are like implants, rigs for ship cost more than +3 implant set for clone, and it's easier to lose. So no, a ship can't "easily" reach 5km/s without snake implants/faction mwd. And don't tell me please that mwd/ab speed rigs are uber affordable. You can buy and fit 2 other ships (if you count insurance) for just the price of 3x mwd/ab speed rigs! Oh btw, please don't come with theoretical setups with 5 nanos in lowslots, you need RCU and BCU for damage on typhoon, and domi doesn't have as low mass/base speed as phoon. Originally by: Aramendel My current main PvP ship is a nanocurse. The only way to kill it is either blobbing (which I can avoid since it handles like an inty) or another nanosetup which is faster than me (and has more nos power). Anything which is slower than it is killable (with the exeption of a too good passive shield tank, but you do not see many of those in PvP). Nanocurse is more imba than any of the other nanoships. The reason is not as much, that it can fit EW, but because nos is imba, and since curse is centered around long range nos, it makes it damn efficient. I don't have anything against nanocurse though, amarr sucks so bad right now, that they really deserve a good ship. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:46:00 - [274] nO way only 1 per ship. Put taht in your mind.. that is a complewte over nerf!! I use 2 nanofibers on every ship I fly as a Minmatar. Even rupture Because I NEED the extra agility to keep at fallof range of enemy! I already pay a lot of price!! I am not fitting tank there or damage mods! Minmatar ships speed advantage is not enough to keep us at falloff. So we Need a few nanofibers, even in a non Nano setup. As i said. Make the bonus be a percentage of speed. For example 15%. That would keep the same for minmatar smaller ships and reduce effectiveness for typhoon and be completely crap for a dominix. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:59:00 - [275] ok ok, don't take me wrong here, you are the experienced guy with those things, but if we are talking balance you have to compare your ship with others of the same class: you have a Rupture and with my "nerf" you would still have the 2nd fastest cruiser together with the Guardian-Vexor only slower then your race ship Stabber, your Rupture is as capable of armour tanking as any other cruiser in the game except Maller and still faster therefore you can keep range, you have the firepower and every problem you might have to keep DPS with armour tanking everyone else will have it too and...you would still have the Stabber able of doing something any other ship could do, this change now that i think about would make me train Minmatar :) faster/agile then your rupture? frigate hull ships (like they should be) Stabber Minmatar T2 Cruisers (like they should be) Typhoon (not considering RIGS/IMPLANTS) I like my steaks bloody as hell
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:07:00 - [276] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 11:06:49 Dude, minmatar doesn't need nerf. We've been the gimped race throughout history. Minmatar doesn't need boost either imo, it's pretty balanced atm, except a few ships. (HELLO MAELSTROM ANYONE????) I fail how your suggestion has anything to do with the thread at hand, no one is talking about matari in particular, the problem this thread is dealing with are nanoships. People nano everything these days. Typhoon Dominix Curse Myrmidon Cerberus List goes on and on, minmatar has nothing to do with it. Ironically enough, we currently switched places with amarr. Typhoon has always been messed up, well... except people now found a use for the damn thing. Rupture is fine as it is, stabber is fine. Don't get what your problem is... Maybe train nav skills if you can't keep range? Rupture is still faster than thorax with mwd, last i checked. Btw, do you even know what a guardian-vexor is? lol. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:11:00 - [277] The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup: Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:13:00 - [278] Originally by: Gabriel Karade The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup: Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems. Err. No. My AC Pest will beat that, my alt's domi will eat it alive, i am quite sure a blasterthron will eat it alive too. Nvm the tier3 ships. Just because you kill noob player with bad skills with a crap ship doesn't make it good. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:14:00 - [279] Originally by: Ryysa Btw, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs = 150m atm. If you buy them in jita maybe. With a researched BPO (bought mine for 3 mil) a PE5 alt or corpmate and buy orders for the raw mats they cost you 30mil per at most. And as said, rig prices will fall further. And, no, I do not consider 90 mil for a speed boost about as high as you get from highgrade snakes much. A fleet fitted mega or rokh has to pay more for it's guns. And everything else in the outfit is cheap.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:16:00 - [280] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Gabriel Karade The thing often overlooked with the current nano-fad is that the Typhoon does just fine without a nano-setup: Siege launcher II's, Dual 425mm II's, full bay of T2 Heavy drones and a 7 slot armour tank - it will take on most Battleships 1 vs 1 up close with no problems. Err. No. My AC Pest will beat that, my alt's domi will eat it alive, i am quite sure a blasterthron will eat it alive too. Nvm the tier3 ships. Just because you kill noob player with bad skills with a crap ship doesn't make it good. Sorry but you are mistaken, go to the team minmatar forums for the setup, it will eat most battleships up close. Only thing against that setup is the skill diversity required... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:20:00 - [281] The key difference is that if things go south (for example if local has suddenly 5 people more and your target won't die anytime soon) a nanophoon can disengage. A tankphoon will get blobbed.
Kano Sekor Amarr S-44 Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:25:00 - [282] Put stacking penalties on everything, that will even things out lots on nanos and i-stabs arent suppose to get bs:es up to 3 000 m/s only interceptors are suppose to go that fast. And while youre at it put stacking penalties on nos:es man come on 5 nos:es in high? oh by the way /me puts on flameproof suit.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:49:00 - [283] If nanos are to be stack nerfed. You need to stack nerf multiple armor repairers, shiled extenders, Armor plates. And all other forms of defense. If the rule applies to one type of tanjking it shoudl apply for all 3! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Meditril	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:07:00 - [284] Always the same people whine about nanos, nos, or amarr beeing a bad race: Alle these people have in common that they only want to use brute force... I have installed soooo big weapons on my ship and there was one guy who was simply too smart for me, so I could not gank him: - he was too fast, I could not hit him with my XXL-Guns. - he nossed me and I run out of cap for my lasers ... Nano-setups are the only remaining solution against the crazy damage-per-second setups with more than 1000 dps etc. There is no possibility to tank them so you need to out-run them. (IRONY ON) I propose to introduce a stacking nerve for guns... no ship should produce more than 300 dps! Dev's please help me and reduce the damage output of all weapons! This will also make fights longer lasting. Isn't this what you wanted? (IRONY OFF) Guys, learn to adapt instead of whining at all the forums.
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:08:00 - [285] Quote: Rupture is fine as it is, stabber is fine. Don't get what your problem is... Maybe train nav skills if you can't keep range? Quote: Rupture is still faster than thorax with mwd, last i checked. Dude ROFL to you This kind of answer is just as good as me saying to you: NYGASKGDA go train your googles skill I'll make it easy for you... - I USE NANOSHIPS (abuse) and that's STUPID - I think the only viable ships to use those setups should be intys and Minmatar ships - Where did you read i had problems keeping range? - Where did you read the Thorax was faster then Rupture? - What's a Guardian-Vexor? I liked the name saw it going 200m/sec and thought it was fun to post it to show i'm smart, sorry for that, are you so kindly to explain me? - Are you multi-tasking? I'll make it even easier for you...they will nerf the nanosetups, everytime there is alot of whining the nerf happens, and then what? I still want to keep this kind of ships somewere, why not some Minmatar ships? I don't want to nerf Minmatar, nor boost them, i want to nerf all nanosetups non specialized minmatar/intys instead of global nerf I want you to answer what i've wrote not what you read oh...and keep it cool I like my steaks bloody as hell
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:15:00 - [286] I hope they learn form tehy mistake and stop thsi nerfing chain! they nerfed damage mods, people started using stabs, they nerf stabs people start using nanos. They nerf nanosn, people will fit somethign else equaly abusive! Insert new conter to the game, not remove viable tactics! When talking about range i think he was answering to me. So.. for him. Try doing it out of the numbers! Try keeping close to web range so your guns do damage and away form his guns and web. Witha 1 km margin you need more than the plain speed advantage of matar ships. You need nanofibers. Play minmatar before making any argumenton any nanofiber issue. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:27:00 - [287] Edited by: Johann Jeneau on 16/01/2007 12:24:09 I was more nerf-nanos then i am now because of people who can be argumentative like Kagura Nikon, like i said i don't use Minmatar ships, you have to help me here I can smell the nerf coming (NOS too, even more), i think there is not much you or me can do about it, i'm just trying to think of ways to keep this speedtactics ingame, and the only way i see it possible after a nerf is with specialized ships, and you and other minmatar friends are the ones who know what has to be done if the nerf happens. Neither of us will decide if there will be some kind of NERF... but, and if it happens? I like my steaks bloody as hell
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:31:00 - [288] you can make bs faster than frigs anyway.. geddon + 8 overdrives = faster than inty. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:35:00 - [289] As i said. My proposal is teh speed bonus on the nanofibers to be a %. Like 10-15%(form standard to local hull) of speed. So a typhoon will get far less speed bonus than a stabber, but still far more than a Dominix. That would make heavy nano ships very rare. The only possible nano BS would be the typhoon, and even so at a reduced speed (like 30% per my calculation). A cheap Typhoon at 2 km/s is no problem to any player that is minimally good at PVP. Dominix would never pass 1200-1500 ms. All that of course without the snbake implants an gisty MWD stuff. This would also help define speed tactics as a minmatar thing. Because currently the number of low slots is more important for speed than the base speed of the ship. For exampl ethe faster ship in game is Zealot! Ammarian! How in hell can the faster ship not be minmatarian? gallente and ammar ships make good nanoships because they have lots of low slots, even better than minmatar. And that is the wrong thing. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Sadao Minmatar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:40:00 - [290] Originally by: Tisanta you can make bs faster than frigs anyway.. geddon + 8 overdrives = faster than inty. Totaly pointless argument because no one will ever use that setup in PVP. I think we are talking about setups that people actually PVP in right now. And my Typhoon is faster than any average inty, with 2x nano, 2x istab. ---

mudders Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:45:00 - [291] nerf nothing leave nano/istab alone its fine Speed/agility is the only anti-blob thing we have. Eve isnt and shouldnt be Red vs Blue p.s o/ gabe ______________ [DLINE] Mudders And on the 7th day the lord spoke'th "...and let there be man-love..."
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:47:00 - [292] No you are not faster than any inty setup on same fashion and amount of ISK. Put an MWD II in a minmatar inty and an Overdrive and you have reaally high speeds. And the point is valid, the point is that the amount of low slots is more important than anything to achieve high speed. It should not! The base speed should be more important. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:59:00 - [293] that's a nice solution Kagura Nikon, very nice indeed, i'm going to trust your math, in terms of balance, within the some race a BS shouldn't be faster then a cruiser nor a cruiser then a frig. but the Minmatar should keep their base advantadge over other races in terms of speed and you seemed to have achieved that. that's the best solution i saw so far i still think that should be some kind of nerf to NOS, like a Heavy NOS whould be very inefective against a frig, but still be a very viable tactic against same size ships, because as it stands it's suicidal for an inty to go into tackling distance of a BS, that way they aren't doing what they were suppose to do correct me if i'm wrong, no hardfeelings for proving me wrong, i like to hear other ideias to duel with mines I like my steaks bloody as hell
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:05:00 - [294] Originally by: Johann Jeneau that's a nice solution Kagura Nikon, very nice indeed, i'm going to trust your math, in terms of balance, within the some race a BS shouldn't be faster then a cruiser nor a cruiser then a frig. but the Minmatar should keep their base advantadge over other races in terms of speed and you seemed to have achieved that. that's the best solution i saw so far i still think that should be some kind of nerf to NOS, like a Heavy NOS whould be very inefective against a frig, but still be a very viable tactic against same size ships, because as it stands it's suicidal for an inty to go into tackling distance of a BS, that way they aren't doing what they were suppose to do correct me if i'm wrong, no hardfeelings for proving me wrong, i like to hear other ideias to duel with mines That is probably also true. But some time ago.. a possible solution for nos was suggested and i liked a lot. When you compeltely NOS the eney ship, you start not gaining more cap, but LOOSING IT!. So putting 4 heavy NOS on a ceptor would be suicidal. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Juan Andalusian TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:10:00 - [295] My name is Juan and i haven't fitted a nano for 29 days! Pain is meant to be felt
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:24:00 - [296] LMAO @ this thread I wonder whats next on the whine list? Damps? Webs? EWAR drones? NOS (yes, again) ___________________________________ Your signature picture is more than 90000 bytes, maximum allowed size is 24000 bytes, 420x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
Recluse XXX TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:32:00 - [297] Nanos = PvP for dummies //Rec ______________________________________________ Farjung > That is either a very young boy or a female, I cant tell wich!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:41:00 - [298] Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies //Rec I would say exactly the oposite. Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good.... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Recluse XXX TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:56:00 - [299] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies //Rec I would say exactly the oposite. Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good.... What I am saying is that it dosent take to much effort to fit an officer scrambler, nos and nanos to have a win button... Orbit at 24, nos, scram and let drones do the work, go afk for a couple of minutes, come back and collect loot...yes, that REALLY takes some skills. //Rec ______________________________________________ Farjung > That is either a very young boy or a female, I cant tell wich!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:12:00 - [300] Originally by: Recluse XXX Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Recluse XXX Nanos = PvP for dummies //Rec I would say exactly the oposite. Try using a stabber with not a single speed mod, and say that its good.... What I am saying is that it dosent take to much effort to fit an officer scrambler, nos and nanos to have a win button... Orbit at 24, nos, scram and let drones do the work, go afk for a couple of minutes, come back and collect loot...yes, that REALLY takes some skills. //Rec So you are trying to tell me that Fitting 2 LAR CC rigs 4 NSO and 4 AC and just click approach and turn the 2 LAR on need too much skills? Or just jump in acarrier and select target and send fihters on it? Or put 7 Heavy NOS and 1 Heavy Beam in an Abbaddon with 2 LAR needs too much skills? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:20:00 - [301] Edited by: Farjung on 16/01/2007 14:25:46 I've been using a fairly modestly fit (core x mwd, shadow disruptor, not got around to rigging it yet, just hardwirings rather than snakes) nanodomi quite a bit recently, and as far as I'm concerned nothing comes close to these nano (specifically domi/phoon) setups in terms of solo performance vs investment. They can deal with a large variety of setups with ease, and one has to be set up fairly specifically to kill them, especially 1 v 1. The ease with which they can disengage is of course their strongest suite. Closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste, so I'm not really flying it so much now. I'll keep on using it until it gets nerfed (assuming it does), but I won't shed a tear when that happens. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:35:00 - [302] Originally by: Sadao People have tried to gank my Nanophoon many many times, without success so far (except RZR that got me in Jita with a bit of lag :p Got that Nanophoon back with petition). One thing I can tell you, 720mm II fitted Muninn can easily track me, I actually had to run away from that one <.< And my orbit speed is around 4km/s at 26km. Dual Heavy Pulse II fitted Armageddon with Tracking Enhancer or two can track me easily too. It's not that hard to hit it, it's all about stopping it from running, which Rapier and Huginn are for and which I will run right away I see one on scanner Exaclty as i said. Its not hard at all for turret ships to hit it. Only large long range guns will have problems. Killing a nanophoon is only matter of forgeting the raven. Bets example is a dual 425mm Tempest. It will track him easily. Fit a falloff rig or 2 and it will eat any nanophoon at 25 km... and EASILY! About running away. You have to live with that! That is what hit and run is about and what minmatar is about. What could be done is make NOS do not dry the target ship under 25%. So that inties can still catch and web them The game cannot be only combats that no one can retreat. Nanoships are surely a greta 1v1 setup and a great cost/return thing. But if weren them the best, it would be something else and everyone would also complain. Any adjustment must be made so that nano tactis are still usable on smaller ships and partially usable on minmatar large ships, since without these they are no Match to anything. I think my prorposal on nanofiber speed bonus being a % of original speed is a good one to solve that. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:40:00 - [303] Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 16/01/2007 14:25:46 I've been using a fairly modestly fit (core x mwd, shadow disruptor, not got around to rigging it yet, just hardwirings rather than snakes) nanodomi quite a bit recently, and as far as I'm concerned nothing comes close to these nano (specifically domi/phoon) setups in terms of solo performance vs investment. They can deal with a large variety of setups with ease, and one has to be set up fairly specifically to kill them, especially 1 v 1. The ease with which they can disengage is of course their strongest suite. Closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste, so I'm not really flying it so much now. I'll keep on using it until it gets nerfed (assuming it does), but I won't shed a tear when that happens. Just a point Farjung. It must be clear that the Nano Domni and nanophoon are a completely different class of problem than the other nano setups that i relly think are OK. But removing the speed tactics. Do you think its fair that the Typhoon that is supposed to be a fast BS is as heavily hurt ad the domini that is supposed to be a slow ship ? As some testimonials show, its not hard to track them with short range turrets. Yes they will escape, but that is a choice of gaming style, some people want to have a large chance of escaping. I dont use nanosetups on the classical fashion. But i Use a Hurricane taht fights at 12 km and has enough speed mods to run away if jumped by a BS. Why is that not fair? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:17:00 - [304] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 15:15:20 Originally by: Johann Jeneau - I think the only viable ships to use those setups should be intys and Minmatar ships Err, and... why? You know, it takes like really little time to train cr4 bs4, so everyone will use it anyway... you don't need any minmatar specific skills for that. Minmatar already have ships that go faster than most stuff. Stabber, Vagabond... Quote: - What's a Guardian-Vexor? I liked the name saw it going 200m/sec and thought it was fun to post it to show i'm smart, sorry for that, are you so kindly to explain me? It's a collectors only ship, last time i checked they went for 500m upwards. You want to take a look at the vexor. Quote: Are you multi-tasking? Always. Quote: I'll make it even easier for you...they will nerf the nanosetups, everytime there is alot of whining the nerf happens, and then what? I still want to keep this kind of ships somewere, why not some Minmatar ships? I don't want to nerf Minmatar, nor boost them, i want to nerf all nanosetups non specialized minmatar/intys instead of global nerf Then why do you even name minmatar anywhere, and say that minmatar need some extra fast ships? We already have them, tyvm. And why are you so bent on the fact that minmatar can't tank? I can fit 2x T2 Large reps on my tempest, just the same as you can fit on a megathron. Granted i have one less slot, but how does it make me tank any worse, especially considering i can have 2 Heavy NOS in highslot while mega has 1 medium maybe. Minmatar have nothing to do with this, it just happens that typhoon is the most effective bs to be nano-ed up for some reasons (4 launcher points, launcher bonus, big drone bay). Also it's really funny to read how "you smell the nerf is coming". Let it come, people will adapt and get over it. About "keeping these ships somewhere" train for vagabond & stfu imo. That is, when nanobs get nerfed, because currently there is nearly no reason to fly vagabond over nano bs. Originally by: Farjung Edited by: Farjung on 16/01/2007 14:25:46 I've been using a fairly modestly fit (core x mwd, shadow disruptor, not got around to rigging it yet, just hardwirings rather than snakes) nanodomi quite a bit recently, and as far as I'm concerned nothing comes close to these nano (specifically domi/phoon) setups in terms of solo performance vs investment. They can deal with a large variety of setups with ease, and one has to be set up fairly specifically to kill them, especially 1 v 1. The ease with which they can disengage is of course their strongest suite. Closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste, so I'm not really flying it so much now. I'll keep on using it until it gets nerfed (assuming it does), but I won't shed a tear when that happens. I wish all ppl had this attitude >.< All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:26:00 - [305] "I wish all ppl had this attitude >.<" It appears people in this thread do have this attitude: "closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile* right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste" ... yet strangely enough this is the point you've been argumentative about. *) and to quote Oveur from another thread, "battleship wasn't mean as solopwnmobile" ... read whatever you want into it.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:34:00 - [306] Edited by: LUKEC on 16/01/2007 15:32:01 I have 2 problems then: 1. I can't kill nanosetups differently than using faster nano ship (assuming that he isn't warping out asap) 2. attitude problem -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve. McGreedy
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:34:00 - [307] "People that complain of nanoships are 99% of time one of the following: -Too narrow minded to accept that fighting is 100% about choosing a fight -Too narrow minded to accept tha tothers may not like the simple I have more tank than you so i Win game - Too Selfish to play in gang. really Learn to play!" Am afraid if works both ways. Just see: People who defend the nano-setups are 99% one of the following: - too narrow minded to accept the risk of not being 100% able to pick the fight - too narrow minded to accept that others may not like the simple you can't catch me so i either win or run game - too selfish to play in gang ... should i tell you to heed your own advice, then..? I don't think so, but then maybe you could at least keep it on some sort of respectful level. "How about light webber drones with high speed?" These weren't put in the game when Sisi tests showed small ships were too vulnerable to them.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:35:00 - [308] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 15:36:20 Originally by: j0sephine "I wish all ppl had this attitude >.<" It appears people in this thread do have this attitude: "closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile* right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste" ... yet strangely enough this is the point you've been argumentative about. *) and to quote Oveur from another thread, "battleship wasn't mean as solopwnmobile" ... read whatever you want into it. I never said that nanobs are perfectly fine. The only point I have argued, is that they are not nearly as unkillable as people think. It's been rather extreme here lately. And I'll say for 43538574357th time, I don't mind nanobs getting the nerfbat, because then, the ships that were designed for that role, would be useful again. I guess, what i am trying to say is that, NanoBS, while overpowered in some ways, spice up the game of "I have the bigger blob than you" game, which has totally ruined solo/small scale pvp in 0.0. Honestly, if you go anywhere in 0.0 to get a fight atm, how high are the odds that you won't be outnumbered at least 3:1, before people "agree" to fight you? The game mechanics are really broken atm in eve, you need to bump people off gates just to kill them etc, because of insane hp bonus or you need a huge gang to kill someone => more blobs. Also ppl logoff instantly, so you have 40 seconds to kill them => again more blobs. This in turn kills solo pvp... see what I am getting at? Nanobs are simply a slightly broken tool in a very broken system =/ All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:38:00 - [309] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: j0sephine "I wish all ppl had this attitude >.<" It appears people in this thread do have this attitude: "closest thing you're going to get to a solopwnmobile* right now, and a little too risk-free for general roaming for my personal taste" ... yet strangely enough this is the point you've been argumentative about. ) and to quote Oveur from another thread, "battleship wasn't mean as solopwnmobile" ... read whatever you want into it. I never said that nanobs are perfectly fine. The only point I have argued, is that they are not nearly as unkillable as people think. It's been rather extreme here lately. And I'll say for 43538574357th time, I don't mind nanobs getting the nerfbat, because then, the ships that were designed for that role, would be useful again. I wonder what YOUR attitude will be if they nerf vaga along. -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.* McGreedy
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:41:00 - [310] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 15:39:42 Originally by: LUKEC I wonder what YOUR attitude will be if they nerf vaga along. Sour, but there is no need to nerf vaga. Vaga can't kill anything solo, you can tank vaga with NPC fitted raven if you want. So you need to have a bit more people with you than just 1 vaga, as opposed to 1 nanoBS being able to wtfpwn everything and escape just as well as vaga. And vagas have gone 5-7km/s long before all this istab stuff started, and before kali was released. Hell, they went that fast before snake implants if you nanoed them up. They haven't gotten nerfed for a very long time, the only reason they were pretty uber some time ago, is that they all could fit 3 wcs without really big penalty. So people could afford to screw up, and then get out, even if they didn't know how to pvp. Doesn't work anymore - screw up => dead. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:49:00 - [311] "I guess, what i am trying to say is that, NanoBS, while overpowered in some ways, spice up the game of "I have the bigger blob than you" game, which has totally ruined solo/small scale pvp in 0.0. Honestly, if you go anywhere in 0.0 to get a fight atm, how high are the odds that you won't be outnumbered at least 3:1, before people "agree" to fight you? The game mechanics are really broken atm in eve, you need to bump people off gates just to kill them etc, because of insane hp bonus or you need a huge gang to kill someone => more blobs. Also ppl logoff instantly, so you have 40 seconds to kill them => again more blobs." It's pretty true but then am afraid this isn't really game mechanics that are broken* it's the people who play the game that want to avoid the risk as much as possible -- so you get the blobs to ensure the upper hand, which leads to increased focused damage that nothing can tank, which leads to hp changes which means anything solo has hard time achieving anything etc... the nano ships in this mess ain't helping at all because they are just slightly different aspect of the same core problem, i.e. people trying to avoid loss at all cost. Consequently i don't like the nano ships because they're reinforcing further what's wrong with the game... while people defending them try to do it under disguise this is actually good. And i believe that's a mistake in the long run, and it'll screw up the mechanics even further if left unaddressed :/ *) or rather, the mechanics are currently warped thanks to the attitude of people who play. in other words, we're all victims of our --generic term-- own attitude :\|
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:53:00 - [312] Originally by: j0sephine "People that complain of nanoships are 99% of time one of the following: -Too narrow minded to accept that fighting is 100% about choosing a fight -Too narrow minded to accept tha tothers may not like the simple I have more tank than you so i Win game - Too Selfish to play in gang. really Learn to play!" Am afraid if works both ways. Just see: People who defend the nano-setups are 99% one of the following: - too narrow minded to accept the risk of not being 100% able to pick the fight - too narrow minded to accept that others may not like the simple you can't catch me so i either win or run game - too selfish to play in gang ... should i tell you to heed your own advice, then..? I don't think so, but then maybe you could at least keep it on some sort of respectful level. "How about light webber drones with high speed?" These weren't put in the game when Sisi tests showed small ships were too vulnerable to them. your attempt to use reverse logic is at least.. pathetic. You relly never had first order logic classes in your life don't you? The speed option is not narrow mined because having a chance to escape do not esclude the chance of stay andf die. Also it does not esclude the chance of playing as the opthers like while allowing to play as you like. Go back to some logic classes... your forum warrior skills are rusty. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Johann Jeneau Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:12:00 - [313] Quote: About "keeping these ships somewhere" train for vagabond & stfu imo. That is, when nanobs get nerfed, because currently there is nearly no reason to fly vagabond over nano bs. Why are you assuming i should train for it? Did i wrote i wanted to use one? if i did it must have been do to multitasking too. I don't want to train minmatar but i want you guys to be happy, after all we are friends and i really like matar ladies...fast and brutal! And what is a stfu imo? Again you answered to what you've read and not to what i've wrote I've read your previous posts and you have some nice stuff wrote, multitasking has to explain this ...you can have your vagabond, actually, like you, i think it should be worth using it instead of a BS, and if it's not, something is wrong... i'm scared, what are you going to shoot now? ps: like i said before, keep it cool I like my steaks bloody as hell
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:22:00 - [314] I still vote that two player-skilled cruisers with MWDs and some tank can either box a nanoship in, web, and pound on it enough to kill it, or drive it away from them. All of these arguments are based on solo PvP, and let's face it, that usually comes down to who has the most expensive fitting these days. If you're having nanoship problems, grab a friend and watch his orbit ;) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:26:00 - [315] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 15:39:42 Originally by: LUKEC I wonder what YOUR attitude will be if they nerf vaga along. Sour, but there is no need to nerf vaga. Vaga can't kill anything solo, you can tank vaga with NPC fitted raven if you want. So you need to have a bit more people with you than just 1 vaga, as opposed to 1 nanoBS being able to wtfpwn everything and escape just as well as vaga. And vagas have gone 5-7km/s long before all this istab stuff started, and before kali was released. Hell, they went that fast before snake implants if you nanoed them up. They haven't gotten nerfed for a very long time, the only reason they were pretty uber some time ago, is that they all could fit 3 wcs without really big penalty. So people could afford to screw up, and then get out, even if they didn't know how to pvp. Doesn't work anymore - screw up => dead. I just wonder what were reasons for nerfing: a. null & void b. javelin torps c. ecm d. wcs e. dual mwd? Or was just the fact that they worked too well in certain setups? -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve. McGreedy
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:27:00 - [316] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 16:23:54 Originally by: Johann Jeneau Why are you assuming i should train for it? Did i wrote i wanted to use one? if i did it must have been do to multitasking too. I don't want to train minmatar but i want you guys to be happy, after all we are friends and i really like matar ladies...fast and brutal! Right. If you have no clue about minmatar, please don't discuss the topic, it has been a very vulnerable topic in the past. Originally by: Johann Jeneau ...you can have your vagabond, actually, like you, i think it should be worth using it instead of a BS, and if it's not, something is wrong... Good we agree on something. On a side note, your wannabe sarcastic remarks are hardly funny when they get overshadowed by your shallow knowledge of the game. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:37:00 - [317] Edited by: Ryysa on 16/01/2007 16:40:31 @ Kagura Nikon, quit flaming j0sephine... Imo he presents some valid points and does not resort to personal insults. Originally by: LUKEC I just wonder what were reasons for nerfing: a. null & void Dunno about void, null made blasters into a very high damage midrange weapon, when they were supposed to be more shortrange. Quote: b. javelin torps Were nearly as effective as a pre-nerf raven. They did way too much damage to medium sized targets, so the importance of medium-sized targets fell very fast in smaller scale pvp. They'd just get 1-2 volleyed by a couple of ravens. Torps were after all meant to be anti BS weapons and cruise were meant to be anti-medium target/BS weapons. Quote: c. ecm Do i really need to comment on this? The fact that a setup/gang without it was nearly useless in pvp? Quote: d. wcs The fact that people could run away from any combat situation without requiring any skill? Quote: e. dual mwd? The fact that ships went at crazy speeds without sacrificing tankability? Quote: Or was just the fact that they worked too well in certain setups? That's the thing, not /certain/ setups, they worked too well in all cases. Vagabond heavily gives up tanking and damage for speed. It's like saying interceptor needs nerf because it can choose what to engage. Read description of vagabond, and what it was intended to do. Tell me how it's not doing exactly what it's supposed to? If deimos, ishtar, zealot <insert your hac here> get vagabond tackled, it dies very fast. Should 20 man inty gank squads get nerfed? Seriously, I wonder if someone in vagabond podded you repeatedly that you have such hatred for this ship. Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 16/01/2007 11:20:21 Originally by: Ryysa Btw, 3x mwd/ab speed rigs = 150m atm. If you buy them in jita maybe. With a researched BPO (bought mine for 3 mil) a PE5 alt or corpmate and buy orders for the raw mats they cost you 30mil per at most. And as said, rig prices will fall further. Ever heard of opportunity cost? buying said bpo, building said things = time = effort. It costs something too. If there are 100 of them from different sellers on jita market for 50m, then their current market price is 50m. When it is 30m, it's 30m. Ofcourse it's cheaper to make everything yourself, yet that doesn't change it's market value. You fail pretty bad at economics if you use this as argument ;) All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:42:00 - [318] If you need a nano-Battleship to counter the blobs, or can't find any 1 vs. 1's or smaller scale actions, perhaps you are looking in the wrong region of space, because those styles of combat are still very much alive and kickingà If you want to perform guerrilla warfare in a big alliances backyard you should be using something smaller, or if solo in a Battleship (e.g. Blasterthron) be more astute in picking your battles. At the end of the day Battleships are not supposed to be solopwnmobiles, this whole nano-craze is allowing that, greatly reducing the risk. Bringing a lone Battleship to the table, unsupported, is supposed to be a risky propositionà. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:45:00 - [319] I am nost insulting anyone, He/She/it just tried to subvert my post in a way that was unacceptable. No real arguemnt was used on that post and was only degenerative to the discussion. My post was just a statement that this type of tactic bring up nothing to the discussion. Most people are just making ridiculows nerf suggestions, liek only 1 nanofiber. And very few a being constructive of how to achieve a good balance that would not gimp minmatar and fast cruisers. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:48:00 - [320] Originally by: Gabriel Karade If you need a nano-Battleship to counter the blobs, or can't find any 1 vs. 1's or smaller scale actions, perhaps you are looking in the wrong region of space, because those styles of combat are still very much alive and kicking… If you want to perform guerrilla warfare in a big alliances backyard you should be using something smaller, or if solo in a Battleship (e.g. Blasterthron) be more astute in picking your battles. At the end of the day Battleships are not supposed to be solopwnmobiles, this whole nano-craze is allowing that, greatly reducing the risk. Bringing a lone Battleship to the table, unsupported, is supposed to be a risky proposition…. Well, before nano fotm. Good "solo" pvper does this: Run 2 acc, 1 with covert, 1 with <insert gank ship here>. If there is gatecamp he just takes other way around, if people come to gank him or camp him in he waits out aggro timer and most likely logs, if he is so badly camped in that he can't escape. Now good solo pvper does htis: Fit nanoship, kill stuff, if you meet blob, go through the camp (unless it's a very potent one) or fly away fast. I can't say I agree with this. But lately the amount of eve subscribers and the styles of gameplay make for more and more blob tactics. And I agree with j0sephine, nanoships further enforce these blobtactics... All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:55:00 - [321] "your attempt to use reverse logic is at least.. pathetic. You relly never had first order logic classes in your life don't you?" Am not reversing anything here. This is to point out you can apply identical opinionated judgement to arguments both pro and against the nano setups. I.e. if unwilingness to play in gang using regular setups is "selfish", then the same applies to identical unwilingness to play in gang that makes people opt for the nano setups. Etc. Oh and while i didn't indeed take any kind of formalized debate classes, am quite aware arguments ad personam are generally less effective than addressing the point at hand, since they tend to show lack of valid counter-point. "The speed option is not narrow mined because having a chance to escape do not esclude the chance of stay andf die. Also it does not esclude the chance of playing as the opthers like while allowing to play as you like." Afraid "narrow minded" is opinion, not a fact. If you are willing to attach personal opinion to something in attempt to make it an argument, you lose the right to complain about being subjected to the same. Regarding the "chance of playing as the others like while allowing to play as you like" -- this is not the case, since like pointed out multiple times by now the only real counter to nano ships are nano ships themselves. I.e. when you insist to be allowed to utilize these setups, you're essentially forcing people to choose between "play by my rules and fly nano ship too or die" which is hardly different from what you're complaining about.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:01:00 - [322] "I am nost insulting anyone, He/She/it just tried to subvert my post in a way that was unacceptable. No real arguemnt was used on that post and was only degenerative to the discussion. My post was just a statement that this type of tactic bring up nothing to the discussion." Funny you would say it, since it was a copy of your own post. By the same token your 'l2play narrow minded nubs' was just as pointless and degenerative; thank you for realizing the point i was making.
Kruel Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:06:00 - [323] I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but.... How about implementing a penalty to nos if mwd is engaged? That might give inties a chance of catching those pesky nanophoons.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:29:00 - [324] Edited by: Aramendel on 16/01/2007 17:29:18 Originally by: Ryysa Ever heard of opportunity cost? buying said bpo, building said things = time = effort. It costs something too. If there are 100 of them from different sellers on jita market for 50m, then their current market price is 50m. When it is 30m, it's 30m. Ofcourse it's cheaper to make everything yourself, yet that doesn't change it's market value. They do not sell themselves on their own though, either. Selling something which has multiple seller and which is falling in price requires constantly updating your sell orders. Which is an opportunity cost in itself. Also, as said, rigs are new and therefore highly profitable right now. In the next months we will get more producers and reduced demand, meaning the price will fall. In the end it will go the way of other t1 items where the finished product is worth only slightly more than it's raw mats. Looking at rig prices now without taking their developement for the future into account is pretty unwise, too. Quote: You fail pretty bad at economics if you use this as argument ;) At least I didn't ignore insurance for ship costs or overexaggerated the costs for nanoBS with intyspeed by the factor of 5 Anyway, this sidepoint is derailing the thread. Point is that it does not really cost as much to setup a good nanoship compared to other setups.
Rak'Kabal Kain Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:53:00 - [325] Again all the hate on ships that people cant catch, first the WCS whinage and now that NANO whinage and its from the same people no less. Right to the point, the reason they are broken is simply because NOS are still broken more importantly battleship NOS. They give you cap for free, if you have more nos you win. The phoon will have 4 torp/cruise launchers and 4 nos and 5 hvy drones so it will run about at 3000+ and still hit for full damage while the other ship will not, I-Win. Now in detail, hvy drones with skills do 200+ dps, torps/cruise will add about 300+ dps, orbit @ 15km 3000+m/s = you cant hit me and you will have no cap so you cant MWD, scram or web or rep. Conclusion: Missiles are balance atm, much better then they were b4, i dont think they are the problem here. The problem is with NOS or Drones. Drones totaly unbalance the ships they are on, lets look back. ol skool Rax w/ 1600 plate + small nos + 8 hvy drones = Drones and nos make this a broken setup. Rev Phoon w/ msls + drones + nos + mad speed = Again drones and nos is what makes this a broken setup. final thought, I would say drones are what make or brake good builds, there is a world of difference if you can use hvy drones and nos are extra cookies. VC
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:35:00 - [326] Originally by: Rak'Kabal Kain Again all the hate on ships that people cant catch, first the WCS whinage and now that NANO whinage and its from the same people no less. Right to the point, the reason they are broken is simply because NOS are still broken more importantly battleship NOS. They give you cap for free, if you have more nos you win. The phoon will have 4 torp/cruise launchers and 4 nos and 5 hvy drones so it will run about at 3000+ and still hit for full damage while the other ship will not, I-Win. Now in detail, hvy drones with skills do 200+ dps, torps/cruise will add about 300+ dps, orbit @ 15km 3000+m/s = you cant hit me and you will have no cap so you cant MWD, scram or web or rep. Conclusion: Missiles are balance atm, much better then they were b4, i dont think they are the problem here. The problem is with NOS or Drones. Drones totaly unbalance the ships they are on, lets look back. ol skool Rax w/ 1600 plate + small nos + 8 hvy drones = Drones and nos make this a broken setup. Rev Phoon w/ msls + drones + nos + mad speed = Again drones and nos is what makes this a broken setup. final thought, I would say drones are what make or brake good builds, there is a world of difference if you can use hvy drones and nos are extra cookies. Or is it more anything that has nothing to do with your own speed and still hit? Why nanodomi and not nanotempest? Why nanophoon and not nanogeddon <<<< think about it. -------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve. McGreedy
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:48:00 - [327] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Rak'Kabal Kain Again all the hate on ships that people cant catch, first the WCS whinage and now that NANO whinage and its from the same people no less. Right to the point, the reason they are broken is simply because NOS are still broken more importantly battleship NOS. They give you cap for free, if you have more nos you win. The phoon will have 4 torp/cruise launchers and 4 nos and 5 hvy drones so it will run about at 3000+ and still hit for full damage while the other ship will not, I-Win. Now in detail, hvy drones with skills do 200+ dps, torps/cruise will add about 300+ dps, orbit @ 15km 3000+m/s = you cant hit me and you will have no cap so you cant MWD, scram or web or rep. Conclusion: Missiles are balance atm, much better then they were b4, i dont think they are the problem here. The problem is with NOS or Drones. Drones totaly unbalance the ships they are on, lets look back. ol skool Rax w/ 1600 plate + small nos + 8 hvy drones = Drones and nos make this a broken setup. Rev Phoon w/ msls + drones + nos + mad speed = Again drones and nos is what makes this a broken setup. final thought, I would say drones are what make or brake good builds, there is a world of difference if you can use hvy drones and nos are extra cookies. Or is it more anything that has nothing to do with your own speed and still hit? Why nanodomi and not nanotempest? Why nanophoon and not nanogeddon <<<< think about it. Yep, same reason the Crow is the high-speed combat king of the Inties. Missiles literally for the win. =)
Hakera Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.16 20:10:00 - [328] Edited by: Hakera on 16/01/2007 20:08:54 Given that there is a general consenus of opinion that things are not right. Suggestions of possible fixes could be: a)Reverse Istab change b)change Istabs to harsher penalty/fittings cost or reduce mass change c)class specific nanofibers/Istabs where mass bonus could be: i)-200,000 kg mass, ii) -2,000,000 kg mass, III) -20,000,000 kg mass, with an activation cost or other restriction that means they cant be used in undersized ships. d)allow 1 only per ship to be fitted of each with current stats or use class specific stats. Speed is a defence of the frigate and to a lesser degree the cruiser, it does not belong on battleships but has happened due to the the number of slots availible and the weapon ranges involved. I think most should agree its the mass bonus on Istabs which is the prime culprit behind the nano 'fad' with the non-tracking weapons adding the icing on the cake to the new vagabond setup craze everyone is seeing. personally I think bs as before istabs should be able to go around 1.5-2.0 k/s but with a poor agility (turning etc) and inertia (deceleration) for a turn. The effect is amplified due to the % of mass lost and ability to stack bs low slots with nano/istab combo's making the boost very apparant on the bs's so making the effect specific to the mass its changing seems more sensible rather than a flat % as now.
Rak'Kabal Kain Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:24:00 - [329] Edited by: Rak''Kabal Kain on 16/01/2007 23:22:42 Originally by: LUKEC Or is it more anything that has nothing to do with your own speed and still hit? Why nanodomi and not nanotempest? Why nanophoon and not nanogeddon <<<< think about it. the fact that your speed is not important when using missiles is also a good point, now if tempest had hvy drones it would give the nanodomi a run for its isk why have we not seen a nano raven yet?? no hvy drones or nuff grid to fit many nos its is not simply down to the number of nano/i-stabs u can fit, so lets not have a knee-jerk reaction VC
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:53:00 - [330] lol, this thread is still going..... some pretty crazy suggestions in the past few pages. lets not go nerfing speed outta the game to fix a small imbalance. yeah, IMBALANCE, i'm a supporter of the nanoships or whatever you wanna call it. I LOVE SPEED setups, but there is a line that can be crossed. Has it been? CCP will decide that and act accordingly, but i think most ppl here need to chill out and red this line -they will fix the istabs. thats it. all that needs to happen. all that will happen. nanophoon is a fine ship. its fun! and it will continue to be a viable ship after whatever fix's are made. as will the vagabond. its not that every person that flys it was an ecm w*3 or wcs w*3 that just found a new trick to turn. everywhere you look ships are goin crazy fast now. its just one mod seems to have slightly crazy benifits at the moment. so chill the hell out! nothing wrong w/ a mwd battleship. is there somethingn wrong w/ a 8km/s battleship? debateable (evidence being the past 11 pages) but probly not intended. but, mark my words, expect to see more crazy leet ships w/ the boosters/rigs/implants/factionmods. for those that want to dump billions into one ship, very remarkable feats will become possible for a solo pilot, for better ( <- my opinion) or worse. cry, post more, whatever will help you cope w/ it. but remember, the most extreme of what you see are ppl that have worked and paid for it, dont go screaming nerf outta jelousy

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:55:00 - [331] Edited by: Aramendel on 16/01/2007 23:53:36 Personally I would simply flag the MWD speed boost effect of the vent rigs and the inertia bonus of instabs/nano for the stacking penality. This would stop nanoBS being as agile as frigs - 6 * LH anos/instabs reduce a ships inertia to 0.37 of its original, if -inertia had a stacking penality it would only get a reduction to 0.63 of it. Giving the MWD speed rigs a stacking penality would reduce the speed boost of 3 vent rigs from about 45% to about 35%. Effeciently a 7% reduction of it's speed. Not too much, but combined with the significantly reduced agility it might be enough.
Ms Chen	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:42:00 - [332] couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:59:00 - [333] Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 17/01/2007 00:56:16 Originally by: Ms Chen couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds. Not at all, the speed doesn't matter (no resistance). The acceleration is what isn't possible. Then again warp isn't possible either since you go faster that light. Shall we remove that too? Have fun MWD'ing between gates with your new speed cap'd ship. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:30:00 - [334] Originally by: Ms Chen couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds. If you want to talk about structural integrity, how about we remove the structure HP penalty and add this: "10% chance of ship disintegration while MWD active"
Leon 026 Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:44:00 - [335] You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Ms Chen	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:46:00 - [336] Originally by: Plymer Ization Originally by: Ms Chen couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds. If you want to talk about structural integrity, how about we remove the structure HP penalty and add this: "10% chance of ship disintegration while MWD active" lol, that would be quite awesome. Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 17/01/2007 00:56:16 Originally by: Ms Chen couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds. Not at all, the speed doesn't matter (no resistance). The acceleration is what isn't possible. Then again warp isn't possible either since you go faster that light. Shall we remove that too? Have fun MWD'ing between gates with your new speed cap'd ship. like I said, we all suspend disbelief, my beef is just this one thing because CCP backstory has all of these fancy pseudo-science and flat out sci-fi words that at least indicate some sort of theory within Eve. It's just this one thing that my brain isn't comfortable with. I've never flown a nano-BS nor have I ever fought one personally. It's just strange and something doesn't fit for me. But that's just me, if the rest of the community can accept then hey, not much i can do but accept it after a while or at least accept that it's a part of the game.
Hazelnut	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:50:00 - [337] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 17/01/2007 00:56:16 Originally by: Ms Chen couldn't they create an artificial cap on speed for something like this? I mean this is a game and all and we suspend belief on a lot of things and it's pretty easy to for me at least since i don't understand physics beyond a high school 101 class, but wouldn't something that big have problems with structural integrity or something. It's really difficult to allow myself to believe something that size going 3 km/s. I know artificially capping speed is pretty invasive on a developer part, but it seems natural instead of nerfing a mod that only needs to be nerfed because oversized ships are going insane speeds. Not at all, the speed doesn't matter (no resistance). The acceleration is what isn't possible. Then again warp isn't possible either since you go faster that light. Shall we remove that too? Have fun MWD'ing between gates with your new speed cap'd ship. If there is no resistance, why doesn't my 200mm autocannon shoot across space?
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:01:00 - [338] Edited by: Arian Snow on 17/01/2007 02:05:44 Give Nos tracking ... YES please! problem solved! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:05:00 - [339] Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 17/01/2007 01:59:37 Give Nos tracking ... YES please! problem solved! yay that means pilly will still work DO IT CCP DO IT! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes

Karass Sayfo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:23:00 - [340] Cleaning thread. Further trolling, unconstructive comments and flaming will be warned. Please keep the discussion/debate constructive and smack-free. Thanks! - Karass _______ forum rules \| IGS rules \| COAD rules \| [email protected]


xbreaka Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.17 03:36:00 - [341] listen you chumps, minmatar which are what most of the nano ships are, nanophoon, vaga etc have sucked for the longest time compared to you uber gallente blaster pwnmobiles, we finally get a viable way to combat all of that using speed, and you want to nerf us :(
McRuder Gallente New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:12:00 - [342] nerfing mods is not the solution, as it will just create another FOTM that needs to be nerfed ... rinse & repeat. Nerfing makes the game unplayable in the end. Rather experiment and find a viable counter ... and if there is none then scream for an mod upgrade. In this case get webbers upgraded to use a skillset to increase range & effect. Nano ships require several skills to operate effectively, and even sets of implants, so a counter should be just as effective skills based. Everytime someone puts in the work & thought to create a good setup within available game mechanics, that the rest dont know how to counter, then players start screaming NERF! Try using fast frigs with webbers, or webber drones with range and mwd upgrades, or tracking disruptors, or ecm & nos ... all these are within the game and can catch and/or counter nano ships. o/
Plague Black 4S Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:31:00 - [343] There is no need to nerf nanos. Nanoships can't beat anything of the same size as them (unless its a ceptor, which is another class of combat). Lets take nanophoon for example, or nanodomi. No tank at all, so ship of the same size with tank would own them with no sweat broken.****abond? Not worth commenthing as this ship is designed for ganking indies and barges and not for any fair-play PVP. If you have problems with nano ships here is your recipe for handling them: Add 1 huggin and 1 Lachesis to gang. Huggin must be equipped with triple web and lachesis needs only one scrambler and 4 dampeners. Since nano ships has no tank it will die defencless (unless its domi, rare example to be honest, but even then just pick on his drones one by one, already done here). You don't need any more ships then these 2. Problem is that you need 2 of those per nano-runner so if you are facing a gang of 5 nano-runners just get 10 of recons... or 3 close range bs-es, they will run anyway:)
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:53:00 - [344] Quote: You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. Why do I see this quoted everywhere when talk goes to nano ships? Is there some particular reason you can't fit istabs/nanos on an interceptor now? A speed inty will always be faster than a speed battleship. I see 9-12 km/s crows all the time and nobody even thinks twice, but a bs going a blazing 3km/s "flying past all those interceptors" draws comment ... remarkable. Is my speed battleship going to beat some 1v1 situations? Yes, yes it is. Why? Because to get a reasonable speed, I spend anywhere from 100-300m on mods for a "basic" fitting with no snakes and as you should know, enough of a boost in something can make a setup extremely effective. What would I fear in my speed battleship? A dampener or two could render nearly any ship invulnerable. Crow + dampener? I'll be forced away. Two crows, one with a dampener and one with a web? I'll end up inty meat. Rapier/huginn obviously nasty. Any well-fitted sniping ship, tempests probably my most feared. Any ship that gets close enough with a small nos (runs webber + scrambler intermittently, but enough to slow me down and have me killed easily by others). Well-tanked cap-injected ship with a pilot experienced enough to take out my drones. Few cruisers who watch the orbit, and MWD at the right time to catch me. Consider solo PvP -- ship HP increases and the current lame ctrl+Q 40-second disappear exploit I see a few times an hour has forced us to adapt, and one way to fight growing blobs is to be in a fast, agile ship. Inty is the obvious choice, but it lacks the survivability and/or damage to cause any serious trouble. Then come the nano ships, which are quite effective in a variety of situations. Not as fast or as agile as an inty, but greater damage output and better durability. Of course, it costs up to 12 times or more what an inty would cost, but that's the price we pay.
Olivin Gallente Aquarium	Posted - 2007.01.17 08:08:00 - [345] This thread stinks and there are lot of whiners here. Nano setups are fine. I use one. With snakes and faction modes I can get about 6km/s out of my domi. Yes, I will probably pwn you. Suck you dry and let my drones kill you slowly. But, this setup cost about 3 bill ( with implants) and I have 7 mil sp in drones alone. So, I will be very disappointed if you will survive or escape me in your your pathetic stock/standard setup, capiche? ---------------------------- We¦re not lost. We¦re locationally challenged.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:30:00 - [346] The size of ones wallet is irrelevent, nano setup battleships are not fine... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:31:00 - [347] Again. for the ones that still try to put to the public the LIE that the only way to fight a nano ship is with a nanoship. Turrets track them pretty well!! Get a tempest. Fit dual425 2 track Computers And fit the rest with about the same isk you spent to fit teh said nano ship. You reaally need to be a bad pilot or have really lower skills to die to a nanphoon ... your turrets will tracks him as easy as to take candy from a child! His signature is the size of a moon!!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Hank Showbo	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:33:00 - [348] Originally by: Leon 026 You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. I dont see why not, the only battleships I've seen fitted for speed are those with faction mods. And realistically, an intercepter takes a 1MN MWD, battleship takes a 100MN MWD. The battleship one is 100X more powerful. Add intertias to make the MWD seem like an oversized one and nanos to balance the base speed with MWD speed. I dont see why a battleship should not be able to fly faster than an inty. Now if maybe the drone AI didnt suck, then a lot of you would not complain. As for the turret users, when I fly nano-BS with MWD have have the sig radius of over 2500, thats 2.5 carriers I beleive the t1/t2 fitted NanoBS is ok, max speed I have got from my phoon is about 2.8K with t2 MWD, and 3 local inertias and 3 local nanos. Faction fit ones are causing you all to write in...zomg 6-7KM BS, so if there was a nerf for these ships, I would only nerf the faction mods, end of.
Marcus Quo Axe Gang	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:40:00 - [349] Edited by: Marcus Quo on 17/01/2007 09:38:43 First off, let me say I fly a Nanodomi and love it. Between rigs and implants, I can go 6km/s. The problem isn't that I can take on anything I want solo. If I spent as much money on faction tanking gear for a Domi, I could still solo any BS easy, possibly two. The problem is the fact that I can engage a small fleet without risk of losing my ship, and get kills if I do it right. I've attacked two Ravens, an Abaddon, and two drakes, all of which were in a belt ratting TOGEATHER. I got out just barely into armor with a drake killmail. Someone please tell me this isn't broken. Now, I know someone will just say "lawl lrn 2 counter." You shouldn't NEED a recon ship in every single gang to avoid getting killed by a nanoship. People fit basic counters into most fleets. Eve is built that way. You can tackle without an interceptor, you can fit T2 weapons without a HAC, etc. But you CAN'T web a good nano ship without a Min Recon. Don't tell me intys are the answer, I can outrun an average inty pilot, or let them catch up to me, nos their cap and pop them before they get a chance to do anything. Basically, no amount of cash should turn a 10v1 PvP situation into a victory for the single pilot unless you're in something slow and vulnerable, like a cap ship. Nanoships can disengage at will, so they're never really at risk when PvPing.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:12:00 - [350] Originally by: Marcus Quo But you CAN'T web a good nano ship without a Min Recon. I just killed one a few days ago with a celestis dampning, 2 ceptors webbing and moving in an out of his lock range, and 2 stabbers doing damage. It was a crappy nanophoon, but the same concept works for any nanophoon as long as your ceptors also fit speed mods. Sniggwaffe is recruiting

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:25:00 - [351] Originally by: Marcus Quo Edited by: Marcus Quo on 17/01/2007 09:38:43 First off, let me say I fly a Nanodomi and love it. Between rigs and implants, I can go 6km/s. The problem isn't that I can take on anything I want solo. If I spent as much money on faction tanking gear for a Domi, I could still solo any BS easy, possibly two. The problem is the fact that I can engage a small fleet without risk of losing my ship, and get kills if I do it right. I've attacked two Ravens, an Abaddon, and two drakes, all of which were in a belt ratting TOGEATHER. I got out just barely into armor with a drake killmail. Someone please tell me this isn't broken. Now, I know someone will just say "lawl lrn 2 counter." You shouldn't NEED a recon ship in every single gang to avoid getting killed by a nanoship. People fit basic counters into most fleets. Eve is built that way. You can tackle without an interceptor, you can fit T2 weapons without a HAC, etc. But you CAN'T web a good nano ship without a Min Recon. Don't tell me intys are the answer, I can outrun an average inty pilot, or let them catch up to me, nos their cap and pop them before they get a chance to do anything. Basically, no amount of cash should turn a 10v1 PvP situation into a victory for the single pilot unless you're in something slow and vulnerable, like a cap ship. Nanoships can disengage at will, so they're never really at risk when PvPing. no this IS NOT BROKEN! This is hit an run tactics! Sicne the HP boost form teh past and recent. that is the only way to do hit and run. The only thing wrong here is taht Hit and run shoudl be a minmatar tactics, but gallente can do it better! The ONLY thing that interest me on PVP is hit and run. get in attack the weakest target kill it and run away... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:40:00 - [352] Originally by: Kagura Nikon no this IS NOT BROKEN! This is hit an run tactics! Sicne the HP boost form teh past and recent. that is the only way to do hit and run. The only thing wrong here is taht Hit and run shoudl be a minmatar tactics, but gallente can do it better! Limiting a too strong setup on one race does not make it less overpowered. Neither does a racial speciality excuse something being too strong. Take for example amarr - less flexibility but very good gank & tank. Which gave us the old gankgeddon. Which basically made all other DPS BS obsolete. As result it got nerfed - or betterm pulses got nerfed and the stacking penality got increased - and now it's while still strong by far not overpowering. And, as a sidenote, minnie ships can do hit & run tactics still better than gallente ships. A typhoon is faster than a domi with the same setup. Also, hit & run tactics do not involve attacking the main force, getting kills and retreating. It's going after supply, lone stragglers, getting a kill and retreating before the main force arrives. You do not see guerillias attacking an army unless they intend it to be a suicide attack.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:58:00 - [353] Originally by: Plague Black There is no need to nerf nanos. Nanoships can't beat anything of the same size as them (unless its a ceptor, which is another class of combat). Lets take nanophoon for example, or nanodomi. You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, you can *****any number of ravens, be it 5 or 6 ravens, it's just a matter of time. Same applies to any number of BS with longrange setup etc. And megathron can't really hit you that well either. But yeah, any AC Tempest, Pulse geddon or Battlecruiser/Cruiser with midrange guns will put you into a world of pain. You're wrong about having to run from the same type of ship though, in majority of the cases you can handle 2 of the same type of ship. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.17 11:19:00 - [354] What a great thread this is. I fly I nanophoon because it's fun. More fun than my Vaga. Yes I can solo in it, but it is still vunerable to gate camps, you need some skill to fly it, you have no tank, you generally have no back up so you can be fighting 5 or 6 people by the time back up arrives to help their friend as it takes a long time to kill somthing in a Nanophoon. It isn't just Nano's that you want to look at if you say omg look at him we can never catch him, the real problem is the combination of Faction MWD, Snakes, Speed Rigs and Nano's and that goes for all ships not just BS, I see Crows flying at 26 k a second, Vaga's flying at 15 K a second and the crow can only fit 3 nano's so which module or item is overpwered here? It's great being Amarr that flys Minmintar aint it? EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 12:22:00 - [355] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Kagura Nikon no this IS NOT BROKEN! This is hit an run tactics! Sicne the HP boost form teh past and recent. that is the only way to do hit and run. The only thing wrong here is taht Hit and run shoudl be a minmatar tactics, but gallente can do it better! Limiting a too strong setup on one race does not make it less overpowered. Neither does a racial speciality excuse something being too strong. Take for example amarr - less flexibility but very good gank & tank. Which gave us the old gankgeddon. Which basically made all other DPS BS obsolete. As result it got nerfed - or betterm pulses got nerfed and the stacking penality got increased - and now it's while still strong by far not overpowering. And, as a sidenote, minnie ships can do hit & run tactics still better than gallente ships. A typhoon is faster than a domi with the same setup. Also, hit & run tactics do not involve attacking the main force, getting kills and retreating. It's going after supply, lone stragglers, getting a kill and retreating before the main force arrives. You do not see guerillias attacking an army unless they intend it to be a suicide attack. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Iratus Caelestis KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:13:00 - [356] Just give me back dual mwd and oversized afterburners and I won't care a bit. :) And ya you shouldn't be able to turn as well, lateral thrusters aren't designed to turn you around from speed :) I think it needs to be fixed, however I just fly them in the mean time because I have to, its the only way to compete atm but for people that haven't got the skills point luxury that a lot of older players have the FOTM systems are a bit unfair, you know there will be a lot of people that train for speed just in time for it to get nerfed.
Kael Zeratul	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:28:00 - [357] Originally by: Leon 026 You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. It appears you are doing something horribly wrong. Nano is fine L2P
Sherpondeldey Minmatar SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:52:00 - [358] well nano-ships are pretty fine. It is a speed tank. Reall different aproach. You spend your cap not for armor repping nor shield boosting but going really fast. I am sure that it is pretty balanced. That is the nosferatu that makes nanoships so powerfull. The main weapon of nanoboat are drones. But they are hardly controlable when its master is orbiting at 18-25km from them. Just kill his drones and leave him with no weapon. nanophoon is an exception - it has 4 torpedo launchers.. PS: Did the prices of matari recon ships start to rise? :)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:03:00 - [359] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Hit and run is attacking the weakest point on the main combat force and withdraw before you can be counter engaged effectively. The best example was the Luftwaffe tactics during ww2, where their faster planes would dive upon allied planes hit them hard and withdraw immediatelly, since they were no match in continuous low level combat. We want Hit and Run, not guerrilha tactics, thjat do not require speed, but stealthness. You said it yourself - "the weakest point". You do not saw such tactics used against an concentrated enemy force as it is possible with speedsetups. Basically, the problem is that the hit & run tactics in eve are too effective atm. The air combat example is actually good to show this. In order to utilize their hit & run tactics the german fighters needed an height advantage, used this to makee a strafing run and then disengaged. If it would be like in eve they would meet at even height and then fly circles around the other planes. A nanoship vs normal ships combat is more like fighters vs bombers, exept that the "bombers" are fighters, too. If nanoBS would not have inty-like agility and could only make strafing runs because orbiting at high speed isn't possible you wouldn't see nearly as many complaints about them.
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:17:00 - [360] Edited by: Raste on 17/01/2007 15:14:14 Originally by: Plymer Ization I was just reading the forums, like I do every day, and I came across the Nano-Myrm thread. It makes me wonder, what has caused this massive Nano/I-stab trend where every ship that can fit lots of Nos and a MWD suddenly becomes [fan fiction] Its almost as though there was some huge change to I-Stabs in the Revelations patch. Reading your post, I'd suggest that play more, forum less. ===This is a sig=== "no matter where you are or what you're doing, you know that down in the southeast, LV and RA are trying to stab each other in the face." -- Cadiz ==============

Kruel Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:24:00 - [361] Quick & easy fix: Nos shouldn't work when MWD is active. Or alternatively, as has already been mentioned, give nos tracking.
Amiable Quinn Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.17 17:42:00 - [362] Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 17/01/2007 17:39:50 I suspect that the reason why many of the large alliance players have such a visceral dislike for nano-setups is they are outstanding at avoiding/breaking gatecamps. Territorial control in this game is currently maintained through the use and threat of gatecamps, if hordes of pirates can slip through or avoid the gate-camp mechanic it makes it MUCH more difficult to control territory. I say threat because many folks don't even venture into 0.0 alliance territory because it is too much of a risk to lose their combat ship to a gate camp. As such the IDEA of a gatecamp acts as a detterent, and folks don't have to maintain them 24-7. Now a decent gate-camp will still take out a nano-ship, but these are rarely maintained 24-7. Joe Solo headed out to 0.0 for a little piracy fun will most likely be able to avoid all but the largest gatecamps in a nano setup. If nano ships continue to gain in popularity, alliances will need to actually patrol their holdings, with other nano-ships. (Having Nano ships at a gatecamp is not really effective, as the ships will high tail it back to the gate or be in warp well before most of these ships even lock). This will reduce the effective territory that an alliance is able to effectively hold. (Unless they use BoB's vassalization model and just make the tenants deal with them). Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.17 17:48:00 - [363] Originally by: Amiable Quinn Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 17/01/2007 17:39:50 I suspect that the reason why many of the large alliance players have such a visceral dislike for nano-setups is they are outstanding at avoiding/breaking gatecamps. Territorial control in this game is currently maintained through the use and threat of gatecamps, if hordes of pirates can slip through or avoid the gate-camp mechanic it makes it MUCH more difficult to control territory. I say threat because many folks don't even venture into 0.0 alliance territory because it is too much of a risk to lose their combat ship to a gate camp. As such the IDEA of a gatecamp acts as a detterent, and folks don't have to maintain them 24-7. Now a decent gate-camp will still take out a nano-ship, but these are rarely maintained 24-7. Joe Solo headed out to 0.0 for a little piracy fun will most likely be able to avoid all but the largest gatecamps in a nano setup. If nano ships continue to gain in popularity, alliances will need to actually patrol their holdings, with other nano-ships. (Having Nano ships at a gatecamp is not really effective, as the ships will high tail it back to the gate or be in warp well before most of these ships even lock). This will reduce the effective territory that an alliance is able to effectively hold. (Unless they use BoB's vassalization model and just make the tenants deal with them). Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. No, you are correct, this is most true. Even if I hop into a large bubble, I can still MWD back to the gate I popped out of before the local inty can lock and web me (or at least glide there with my inertia or limp back before the damage dealers annihilate me). They're simply as uncampable as an inty, and people don't like something they can't stop. This is a valid point and I forgot about it. Now, if we can only do something about those Fountain gates you can't MWD at... ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Plymer Ization Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:20:00 - [364] Originally by: Raste Edited by: Raste on 17/01/2007 15:14:14 Originally by: Plymer Ization I was just reading the forums, like I do every day, and I came across the Nano-Myrm thread. It makes me wonder, what has caused this massive Nano/I-stab trend where every ship that can fit lots of Nos and a MWD suddenly becomes [fan fiction] Its almost as though there was some huge change to I-Stabs in the Revelations patch. Reading your post, I'd suggest that play more, forum less. Sarcastic flamebait ftw. And to answer nicely, I have a lot of time between classes to sit around and read, thanks.
Leon 026 Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:34:00 - [365] Edited by: Leon 026 on 17/01/2007 18:32:36 Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Quote: You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. Why do I see this quoted everywhere when talk goes to nano ships? Is there some particular reason you can't fit istabs/nanos on an interceptor now? A speed inty will always be faster than a speed battleship. I see 9-12 km/s crows all the time and nobody even thinks twice, but a bs going a blazing 3km/s "flying past all those interceptors" draws comment ... remarkable. And pray tell, how useful is a solo "speed inty" ? Oh right, it isnt, because it wont be able to kill anything, let alone be able to control it manually during flight. And we arent talking about 3km/s BSes, we're talking about those that go 5-8km/s. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:45:00 - [366] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 17/01/2007 18:32:36 Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Quote: You know there's something horribly messed up when a battleship is flying faster than an interceptor. Why do I see this quoted everywhere when talk goes to nano ships? Is there some particular reason you can't fit istabs/nanos on an interceptor now? A speed inty will always be faster than a speed battleship. I see 9-12 km/s crows all the time and nobody even thinks twice, but a bs going a blazing 3km/s "flying past all those interceptors" draws comment ... remarkable. And pray tell, how useful is a solo "speed inty" ? Oh right, it isnt, because it wont be able to kill anything, let alone be able to control it manually during flight. O RLY? It's great being Amarr that flys Minmintar aint it? EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs...
Leon 026 Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:35:00 - [367] Clicking orbit != manual flight. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:22:00 - [368] Originally by: Leon 026 Clicking orbit != manual flight. I only use orbit in my nanoship half the time anyway. Most of it's trying to dance around a gang while picking apart one ship at a time. Flying these buggers is hard. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:48:00 - [369] okay people keep on bringing in RL exambles but this is a computergame so RL physics do not apply. But in the spirit of things here is my RL anology. It is and never will be an advantage for a truck to have more space for structural upgrades than a Ferrari... so putting in 7 nanos on a BS should not be 7times better than putting one nano in an interceptor. It is as simple as that. It does not matter if its in space or not. A Truck thats got 10 times more mass than a ferrari will allways weigh ten times more if the same materials are used! So being able to boost BS's speed and agility as you can now makes no sense as long as you cant boost smaller ships with less lowslots with the same efficiency! A stacking penalty would solve that pretty much! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!*
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:06:00 - [370] Came across a 10km/sec nano-typhoon on Sisi today, granted that's probably the very best you can achieve, but is that really what was envisioned for Battleships?...I doubt that somehow. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2007.01.18 01:36:00 - [371] Can sentry drones do much with nano-ships? Or do they go too fast to shoot?
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:51:00 - [372] If you think Nano-Domi/Phoon are bad, wait till you see a Nano-Machariel.
Angelic Resolution Arcanum Defence Forces	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:00:00 - [373] I went against a nanophoon 3 days ago, only reason I won was because my missiles kept firing after he sucked me cap dry. Drones couldn't keep up with him at all as he was going so fast and I doubt guns could have hit him either. TBH it'll get to the point where nano's turn into the kind of module that offline when you start firing weapons - so that your ship doesn't recoil out of control.
Ravelin Eb Minmatar Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:30:00 - [374] I detect a vast amount of whinge in this thread, has anyone thought of using a webber? As a nanophoon pilot myself i understand alot of peoples negative views on this sort of gameplay, to be honest they are quite easy to deal with, any fast ship can tackle us. stabber, vaga, huginn/rapier, any inty, most af's and frigs. the average speed you will find a nano ship travelling at is around 2.5-3.5k/s which isnt that draw droppingly awesome. how some of you act its as if every nano pilot youve come across has a full grade snake set, and imo if they have spent the amount of isk to gain the upperhand they deserve not to die. People need to dry their eyes. its not as if its easy either, theres always the the risk of being bumped by a roid or a station, and you cant use them on gates or anywhere with sentrys. the dps is also frankly rubbish. so please take a look at the bigger picture.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:35:00 - [375] Im sorry but a battleship going twice as fast as a standard interceptor is just dumb. You shouldnt be able to get such speeds in a massive ship with massive amounts of hitpoints. As mentioned above. Its not the question of existence of a counter or not. The question is, are there accessible counters? I mean sure you CAN counter a fast vagabond with a 30km recon web but 1% of gangs have one of those with em. So this would mean you pretty much safe 99% of times and can opt not to engage once you see that 1% counter on your scanner. Lets take another example. There was a suggestion about amarr balancing and doing something special to lasers. The idea was let lasers penetrate through armor and do small amounts of hull damage. The poster thought this was a great idea because you could counter it with dc and hull repper. But its a horrible idea for balance because there would be too few ships fitting hull reppers just in case they would meet an amarr ship in a longer battle. Nano setups has to get a nerf and I think i feel it coming.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.18 09:53:00 - [376] Originally by: Ravelin Eb I detect a vast amount of whinge in this thread, has anyone thought of using a webber? As a nanophoon pilot myself i understand alot of peoples negative views on this sort of gameplay, to be honest they are quite easy to deal with, any fast ship can tackle us. stabber, vaga, huginn/rapier, any inty, most af's and frigs. the average speed you will find a nano ship travelling at is around 2.5-3.5k/s which isnt that draw droppingly awesome. how some of you act its as if every nano pilot youve come across has a full grade snake set, and imo if they have spent the amount of isk to gain the upperhand they deserve not to die. People need to dry their eyes. its not as if its easy either, theres always the the risk of being bumped by a roid or a station, and you cant use them on gates or anywhere with sentrys. the dps is also frankly rubbish. so please take a look at the bigger picture. A what? a web?!, of course! why did no-one think of that before!.... What really happens is this: nano-ship gets in web range through error/stupidity webbed nano-ships momentum carries it straight through and beyond web range ...reading the entire thread helps save a lot of time (yes this has already been pointed out many pages back)... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:19:00 - [377] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Kagura Nikon Hit and run is attacking the weakest point on the main combat force and withdraw before you can be counter engaged effectively. The best example was the Luftwaffe tactics during ww2, where their faster planes would dive upon allied planes hit them hard and withdraw immediatelly, since they were no match in continuous low level combat. We want Hit and Run, not guerrilha tactics, thjat do not require speed, but stealthness. You said it yourself - "the weakest point". You do not saw such tactics used against an concentrated enemy force as it is possible with speedsetups. Basically, the problem is that the hit & run tactics in eve are too effective atm. The air combat example is actually good to show this. In order to utilize their hit & run tactics the german fighters needed an height advantage, used this to makee a strafing run and then disengaged. If it would be like in eve they would meet at even height and then fly circles around the other planes. A nanoship vs normal ships combat is more like fighters vs bombers, exept that the "bombers" are fighters, too. If nanoBS would not have inty-like agility and could only make strafing runs because orbiting at high speed isn't possible you wouldn't see nearly as many complaints about them. Yes that could work, but since the first and second HP upgrades a single pass wont kil anything. The only ship that can kill another ship in 1 volley is a Tempest shoting 1400mm at a cruiser. But i Kind of agree that would be enough balanced that nanoships would need to move in and out of the scramble range to make a second pass. That would make them unable to lock an enemy in fight. So it would be fair.. both sides can decide to bug out... Can you be satisfied with that? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
kaike Minmatar Darklite inc	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:26:00 - [378] Not only a Tempest any other good sniper fitted BS can do that ex:Meastrom whit 8 x 1400 II and tracking ect can also kill in 1 volley.... thats not the point :( But it seems the nano gang's are getting poppulair and it's hard to stop them . Alt of :padraig animal
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:51:00 - [379] Originally by: kaike Edited by: kaike on 18/01/2007 10:25:00 Edited by: kaike on 18/01/2007 10:24:37 Not only a Tempest any other good sniper fitted BS can do that ex:Meastrom whit 8 x 1400 II and tracking ect can also kill in 1 volley.... thats not the point :( But it seems the nano gang's are getting poppulair and it's hard to stop them . Only way is 2/3 full tackle ships and nos...even then it's a hard job. I was just pointing that if nanoships were made to make single busrt passes only , they would have zero effect since they cant kill anything on single pass, not even a t1 cruiser. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:28:00 - [380] Originally by: Kagura Nikon But i Kind of agree that would be enough balanced that nanoships would need to move in and out of the scramble range to make a second pass. That would make them unable to lock an enemy in fight. So it would be fair.. both sides can decide to bug out... Can you be satisfied with that? Oh, a possibility of a consensus? Yes, it would at least make them balanced IMO. Their advantage of high survivability would be balanced by a high survivability of their target. NanoBS would be able to overcome this by flying in pairs, of cource and timing their flybys so always 1 WD the target, but that would be IMO ok because that would actually require a bit of skill and teamwork.

Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:16:00 - [381] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 18/01/2007 12:13:30 Straight line speeds of several km/sec would be fine, re-balances things while allowing high speed 'strafing runs' as you say. But I suppose they would have to change MWD's so that they 'lock' your velocity vector, not sure if that is possible with the current engine... edit: unless they applied a huge penalty to agility... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:27:00 - [382] "edit: unless they applied a huge* penalty to agility..."* They already do -- working MWD/AFB increases mass of the ship by ~50% which has direct effect on the agility... except the multiple unstacked inertia stabs offset that and then some.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:36:00 - [383] Originally by: j0sephine "edit: unless they applied a huge* penalty to agility..."* They already do -- working MWD/AFB increases mass of the ship by ~50% which has direct effect on the agility... except the multiple unstacked inertia stabs offset that and then some. Well, I would say æhugeÆ as in make it bigger still, but then I suppose straight-line acceleration and agility aren't really separately distinguished in the game, which would result in a severe effect on the straight-line acceleration of non-nano ships... Perhaps the solution is simply a stacking penalty on nano-fibres and inertia stabs, but not on overdrive injectors, i.e. if you want the extreme speed, you have to use overdrives and take the corresponding drop in agility, limiting to near straight line 'strafing runs'. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:38:00 - [384] They would simply have to flag the -inertia bonus of nanofibers and instabs for the stacking penality. It would almost half the agility bonus for a ship with 6 of them. Maybe reduce the bonus itself a bit as well if that isn't enough.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:47:00 - [385] I think a simple stack nerf, standard one would be enoughYou would hardly ever had more than 35% agility boost. That would be failry satisfactory I think, sicne would not affect small ships that already use only 2 or 3 speed mods. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:54:00 - [386] Or remove the agility bonus from Nano's and then give Overdrives a slight agility penalty. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 15:12:00 - [387] That would be too much and completely gimp smaller ships using nanofibers. The desired effect is that the number of low slots do not make large ships better for high speed combat than smaller ships. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:46:00 - [388] Why would that "totally gimp" them? It's not as it's THAT much agility loss since, you know, smaller ships don't exactly fit 4 or so. You want to be faster, sure. Sacrifice some maneuverability; makes perfect sense. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Aizhan Ushrakhan The Sword and The Shield	Posted - 2007.02.02 02:15:00 - [389] Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 18/01/2007 00:04:54 okay people keep on bringing in RL exambles but this is a computergame so RL physics do not apply. But in the spirit of things here is my RL analogy. It is and never will be an advantage for a truck to have more space for structural upgrades than a Ferrari... so putting in 7 nanos on a BS should not be 7*times better than putting one nano in an interceptor. It is as simple as that. It does not matter if its in space or not. A Truck thats got 10 times more mass than a ferrari will allways weigh ten times more if the same materials are used! So being able to boost BS's speed and agility as you can now makes no sense as long as you cant boost smaller ships with less lowslots with the same efficiency! A stacking penalty would solve that pretty much! This nano thingy is way out of control, but seriously like he said a truck shouldnt go as fast as a Ferrari or an F1-Car..the inty can go higher than the nanos BSes but thats just it ..it has very low mass ..a BS has huge mass but its goin faster than anything else apart from inties. Nerf it aldy. Yes there are counters to the nanos but we are talking about unbalanced game play favouring this silly speed tanked BSes. And yes they cost a small fortune but seriously think about it people.. do u want to see your shiny porsche outrunned by an 18 wheeled truck? Thats just sick.
Sionide	Posted - 2007.02.02 03:47:00 - [390] Quote: This nano thingy is way out of control, but seriously like he said a truck shouldnt go as fast as a Ferrari or an F1-Car..the inty can go higher than the nanos BSes but thats just it ..it has very low mass ..a BS has huge mass but its goin faster than anything else apart from inties. Nerf it aldy. Yes there are counters to the nanos but we are talking about unbalanced game play favouring this silly speed tanked BSes. And yes they cost a small fortune but seriously think about it people.. do u want to see your shiny porsche outrunned by an 18 wheeled truck? Thats just sick. This argument is purely an aesthetic reasoning. In otherwords an 18 wheeled truck shouldn't be faster than your porsche because you like the look of the porsche better (it's "shiny" [sic]). Yes, the design of the porsche was for speed, while the 18 wheeled truck quite obviously wasn't. However, that reasoning now does not stand since if someone "nanofied" their BS then it was designed to go fast. The porsche and 18 wheeled truck analogy also fails due to the fact that the 18 wheeled truck will not be as fast as the porsche because of the constraints on earth (i.e. gravity and mass - hence friction, etc). These things do not apply to space, and thus only the thrust of the MWD/AB and mass would have a place in the equation. So, if the thruster is great enough to deal with the mass it is thrusting on (which a BS-sized MWD is designed for), then by this reasoning there is no problem for the speed it should be able to reach. Now an argument if they are overpowered is another statement altogether.

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.02 10:16:00 - [391] Speed, yes. However, it will be never be able, no matter what it does, to turn as fast as the lighter car/ship. And, of cource, space in eve does not behave like "real" space does. It's more like a giant waterfilled area with the resulting physics. In real space ships would not stop moving unless you apply counter-thrust, for example.
Rigid Phallic	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:45:00 - [392] hmm anyone got an amarr nano bs setup were cap isnt an issue, or is this lovely new interia stab boost just for a couple races?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:46:00 - [393] lol a 14 page nano thread below a 14 page nano thread Half Assed Rhymage
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.02.02 16:47:00 - [394] i want to know how ppl can get 10k+ from a domi. figure they must be using faction/t2 nanos and i stabs and full grade snakes cos with lg snakes and t2 stuff i can't nearly get that kinda speed. DE
Fswd	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:01:00 - [395] MOMMYYYYYYYY...they have a faster ship than I have...
Bumm Bumm	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:08:00 - [396] Guys, I apologize in advance for the writing style...I am eating. OK my alliance, as have many others, has faced several of the "Super Uber Speed I Can Not Kill You Flying Cigars"...aka Nano-Phoons. Solo, they are very hard to kill as we have all found out. In groups, they are easier to manage as they do not have the DPS to be a huge factor in a 8 vs. 8 (those kinds of numbers) engagement. The story is that a dude in a typical Nano-Phoon comes in and proceeds to do his thing (Nos, Scram etc) to one of my pilots in his Raven. Raven guy yells out..OMG I am scrammed. We then proceed to put support on him (Shield Transfer and Shield Drones)...he is fine because Phoon guy doesn't have the DPS to beat the Raven. Next, our guy in a single Blackbird with not more than 3 million SP comes in and ECMs Phoon Guy...he is now a non-factor. As our BB guy gets in...the rest of Phoon Guy's buddies come in to help him (typical tactic of course...send the Phoon in first then the rest come in). Good timing on our part because once they warped in we already had the Phoon as a non-factor (other than a big ass flying cigar). They had a couple Ravens and some variuos T2 Frigs (I think 2 AFs and 1 Interceptor). I then call the nearest Raven primary. We get about 3 points of Warp Scram, 1 Web and about 12 heavy Nos on him...plus the damage of 4 Drakes and a Kestrel (of Doom) as well as various Drones. Raven goes down in like a minute. Rest of guys warp away. We win. Morale of the story is that the Phoon is counterable by good tactics...though that thing still needs to be hit by the nerf-stick. Oh and BTW...one of my friends Petitioned a loss against a Nano-Phoon citing it as an exploit. His response from GMs were that there is NO BALANCE ISSUE with the ship and that it is NOT AN EXPLOIT

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:25:00 - [397] One thread for this issue is more than enough. See the sticky forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo <-Woah

snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo <-Woah