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Filthy Infidel
Californian CottonPickers Band of Boogers
10
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:44:15 -
[1] - Quote
its actually much different opinions about EVE on steam... any opinions like that on the forum, will get closed as ranting. Or the forumtrolls will get it closed With their ranting since they dont agree.
Its worth Reading to get some Insight what other people think about EVE it than the mainstream EVE players that has to much invested to be negative.
Some fun/semireflected/strange reviews:
"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."
"A space sim where you get to play the role of an invisible being who lives about 47 metres outside a spaceship, you're not a god though, you can't enter the ship or indeed access the cockpit, you fly the ship by power of thought via your keyboard.
No actual flying involved, no piloting, no cockpit view, just a 3rd person spreadheet management game with ridiculous subscription fees played mostly by lying **********"
"Takes too long to establish yourself without becoming a wage slave to some other player. I can do that in real life, I don't need a simulator for that type of thing."
And my favorite:
"Eve Online. Spreadsheet online. We do the work for you online. We give you three character slots but you cant use the other two online.
hmm..ships are pretty. But I will say this. Eve online managed to do what No scifi should ever be able to do...
Make space boring."
So logg into Steam and read the reviews.....
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1790
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 00:49:12 -
[2] - Quote
The internets is full of wannabe hipster types that try and make themselves special by hating on everything, especially if its popular.
Most games cop that to some degree. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1929
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 00:50:54 -
[3] - Quote
Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6884
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:51:09 -
[4] - Quote
Your next mission is to copy all rants locked on these forums to a Steam review.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Filthy Infidel
Californian CottonPickers Band of Boogers
10
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:55:03 -
[5] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Your next mission is to copy all rants locked on these forums to a Steam review.
Im not sure thats legal, i suspect CCP owns everything you earn, recive, make, own and writes in EVE and their respective servers.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9688
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:56:03 -
[6] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:The internets is full of wannabe hipster types that try and make themselves special by hating on everything, especially if its popular. Fortunately, EVE doesn't fit into that category, so everything you read about it is 100% true.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Memphis Baas
835
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:56:27 -
[7] - Quote
Actually, I'd recommend reading the Steam reviews for other MMO's, WoW, SWTOR, and Guild Wars for example. See if they're any different. Then you can form an opinion about Steam reviews... and the people who write those reviews. |
Filthy Infidel
Californian CottonPickers Band of Boogers
10
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:12:57 -
[8] - Quote
the sneaking suspecting irony is that the reason EVE players dont like negative "comments" about EVE is the fact that it reminds them of their negative toughts about EVE they suppress.
When the ability to Accept that there is negative opinion about something you like fades away, there is a problem. |
Paranoid Loyd
7833
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:23:40 -
[9] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:the sneaking suspecting irony is that the reason EVE players dont like negative "comments" about EVE is the fact that it reminds them of their negative toughts about EVE they suppress.
When the ability to Accept that there is negative opinion about something you like fades away, there is a problem. You are being superficial. One must analyze the comments and form an opinion as to the basis of what was said, not take them as simply positive or negative.
Most of the negative reviews are from people who have a certain idea about the way MMOs should be.
The type of player who truly enjoys this game would never take a review at face value or even care what other people think of the game. They understand it's not for everyone.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
565
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:31:23 -
[10] - Quote
Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in. Honestly, (a word not heard much in these parts) if you do come from other games, the idea of ripping off other players, or victimizing them (which is game headshed enacting policy and software that favors some players over others, even though all players are paying the same fees) is more than a little strange.
The entry into EVE is, and all players freely admit this, only fun if you know someone. Very few have this privilege, and do have to walk in here alone. Therefore, by our OWN admission, it's not fun for them.
The funniest (funny strange, not funny "ho ho") bit is, everyone who poo pahs these "reviews" can't assert with a straight face that they wouldn't say just anything as sincerely as possible, just to lure another noob in here to rip off - and call it "emergent play."
Face it. EVE isn't rolling new subs in. It's barely appeasing those it has who admittedly run multiple accounts and don't pay with money.
If you don't like hearing this, HTFU. Don't be a sissy and lie about it. You look foolish doing it.
There just isn't anything that can be said!
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Pix Severus
Mew Age Outpaws
1459
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:37:16 -
[11] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:Eve online managed to do what No scifi should ever be able to do...
Make space boring."
Quote regurgitated from Yahtzee.
From the negative reviews I've seen, they seem mostly centered around the following 2 issues:
1) Subscription cost
Most people think of MMOs as competing with each other, this is due to years of terrible developers trying to create the elusive "WoW killer" and leaving nothing but garbage in their wake. Now the impetus is on making ANY long-term money from an MMO (because these WoW-lites die fast) so they're going with the F2P/cashgrab model. Players are getting used to this model and are starting to expect it from other MMOs, without taking into consideration that F2P games severely lack service, are designed to milk players for content, and are literally filled with annoying children.
The funniest thing of all is that they seem to think EVE is competing with other MMOs. It isn't. How many years has EVE been going now? Did WoW kill it? Did SWTOR kill it? Will Snake-oil Citizen kill it? I think you already know the answer.
2) New players can't compete
This simply isn't true, and is beginning to sound like something people say as an excuse as to why they failed to come to grips with the game. A young character can fly a frigate just as well as an old character. If their problem is that they don't get to jump in a battleship after 1 week and wreck everything, the problem is more with the limited patience and entitlement of the player, more than the game itself.
My lord.
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Memphis Baas
836
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:38:22 -
[12] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in.
No, not really. We can detect flame bait posts when we see them.
The initial post is clearly designed to inflame the EVE players against the Steam reviewers. The OP's follow-up post is an attack aimed at veterans. And your post continues the attack while tying it into the original flamebait topic. I'm guessing you're an alt.
So, no thanks, and IBTL.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
9269
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:55:09 -
[13] - Quote
I sometimes look at the reviews of EVE on Amazon just to get a good laugh.
The things they are complaining about are the very reasons I am here in EVE.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Lulu Lunette
Akheteru Integrated Astrometrics Hedonistic Imperative
147
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:56:47 -
[14] - Quote
Actually I agree. Read reviews about Eve Online, they are a good laugh
@lunettelulu7
Call me for your combat booster needs.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1932
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:59:56 -
[15] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in. Honestly, (a word not heard much in these parts) if you do come from other games, the idea of ripping off other players, or victimizing them (which is game headshed enacting policy and software that favors some players over others, even though all players are paying the same fees) is more than a little strange.
The entry into EVE is, and all players freely admit this, only fun if you know someone. Very few have this privilege, and do have to walk in here alone. Therefore, by our OWN admission, it's not fun for them.
The funniest (funny strange, not funny "ho ho") bit is, everyone who poo pahs these "reviews" can't assert with a straight face that they wouldn't say just anything as sincerely as possible, just to lure another noob in here to rip off - and call it "emergent play."
Face it. EVE isn't rolling new subs in. It's barely appeasing those it has who admittedly run multiple accounts and don't pay with money.
If you don't like hearing this, HTFU. Don't be a sissy and lie about it. You look foolish doing it.
You're always trolling and this post really isn't any different. You trying so hard you actually make a full post with paragraphs makes it entertaining. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7063
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:18:02 -
[16] - Quote
EVE is a niche game, and the mainstream opinion of it is never going to match that of the hobbyist, especially in the current climate of entitlement. People just don't understand the concept of 'player driver sandbox'. They want their hands held, they want to the game to make them feel mighty, and they want everything handed to them. But mainstream opinion is not all that well thought out. For example:
This will be the same crowd complaining that choices don't matter in other games like Mass Effect and SWTOR. Meanwhile, here's a game where you make all the choices, and they really do mean something. You don't pick a choice from a dialogue wheel and wish the wheel had offered you some other alternative, you literally get to make your own choice, not one that the devs have decided for you.
As a result, where both role playing and multiplayer interaction are concerned, this game beats all the others in spades. It comes with all the most important elements, including progression, but over here, your progression is entirely up to you, and based more on your own lived experience within the game rather than some arbitrary scoring system for killing things. Here, experience actually matters; choice actually matters; so much more is given meaning by giving the player this much freedom, and this much control. Sadly, the current generation of gamers don't appear to want that level of control, especially if it means all the other gamers around them get the same level of control (ie meritocracy). It seems to be a mindset infiltrating many schools of thought, not just gaming, including academia: "I should have my freedom to speak, to choose, etc, and you should be made to listen, and not gank me while I'm mining ice."
People don't seem to understand the emulation of freedom in reality that's going on in this game, or the fact that giving players true freedom to choose, rather than the illusion of choice, doesn't just emulate reality, but creates a very real social dynamic that one might even mistake for a legitimate civilisation. These are the things that make EVE unique, and make it stand, objectively (opposed to the subjective opinion of an amateur reviewer), head and shoulders above anything that anyone might consider 'competition' for this game, despite the fact that what makes it unique really negates any and all competition right from the word go.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:18:34 -
[17] - Quote
I've read that when people tell you why they don't like a game, they are probably right about what's wrong with it. Yahtzee was completely right about there being a lack of space dragons.
It's very positive right now, so I wouldn't worry too much.
I can has blogging skills!
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
88
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:24:57 -
[18] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:the sneaking suspecting irony is that the reason EVE players dont like negative "comments" about EVE is the fact that it reminds them of their negative toughts about EVE they suppress.
When the ability to Accept that there is negative opinion about something you like fades away, there is a problem.
Not really....
And funnily enough it was reading reviews of Eve on steam that bought me back to the game....
Although none of what you highlighted matches my favourite review on steam, for Crusader Kings II, which was something like...
'I have murdered my brother married his wife, and now I have fallen in love with her sister, murdered my wiife and been excommunicated. Oh and the Vikings are invading, and all my children are dead. This game is awesome!'
I suspect many could tell similar tales in Eve, but they don't write it on reviews due to in-game secrecy
(btw, I did buy Crusader Kings based on that review, and can vouch for it - murdering my seven nieces because they were found in the castle of a bitter enemy was perhaps my low-point - I had them all starved to death - though I took pity on the 8th)
Oh and btw... if you check out the experimental camera, you can get different views
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13194
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 02:31:47 -
[19] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:its actually much different opinions about EVE on steam... any opinions like that on the forum, will get closed as ranting. Or the forumtrolls will get it closed With their ranting since they dont agree.
Its worth Reading to get some Insight what other people think about EVE it than the mainstream EVE players that has to much invested to be negative.
Some fun/semireflected/strange reviews:
"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."
"A space sim where you get to play the role of an invisible being who lives about 47 metres outside a spaceship, you're not a god though, you can't enter the ship or indeed access the cockpit, you fly the ship by power of thought via your keyboard.
No actual flying involved, no piloting, no cockpit view, just a 3rd person spreadheet management game with ridiculous subscription fees played mostly by lying **********"
"Takes too long to establish yourself without becoming a wage slave to some other player. I can do that in real life, I don't need a simulator for that type of thing."
And my favorite:
"Eve Online. Spreadsheet online. We do the work for you online. We give you three character slots but you cant use the other two online.
hmm..ships are pretty. But I will say this. Eve online managed to do what No scifi should ever be able to do...
Make space boring."
So logg into Steam and read the reviews.....
Those comments are the BEST thing about EVE, it means that with the exception of a few morons, CCP is a turn off to people who can't think or figure things out for themselves.
What's really ironic is that most of those people experienced this 'kinder, friendlier" EVE that is "easy to learn, hard to master" (lol). If they couldn't handle modern EVE that damn near plays itself for you (like how missions tell you how to run them, or how the game won't let you jump into danger the 1st time without a safety pop up), pre-2011 EVE would have given those reviewers a stroke lol.
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
89
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:44:13 -
[20] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:its actually much different opinions about EVE on steam... any opinions like that on the forum, will get closed as ranting. Or the forumtrolls will get it closed With their ranting since they dont agree.
Its worth Reading to get some Insight what other people think about EVE it than the mainstream EVE players that has to much invested to be negative.
Some fun/semireflected/strange reviews:
"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."
"A space sim where you get to play the role of an invisible being who lives about 47 metres outside a spaceship, you're not a god though, you can't enter the ship or indeed access the cockpit, you fly the ship by power of thought via your keyboard.
No actual flying involved, no piloting, no cockpit view, just a 3rd person spreadheet management game with ridiculous subscription fees played mostly by lying **********"
"Takes too long to establish yourself without becoming a wage slave to some other player. I can do that in real life, I don't need a simulator for that type of thing."
And my favorite:
"Eve Online. Spreadsheet online. We do the work for you online. We give you three character slots but you cant use the other two online.
hmm..ships are pretty. But I will say this. Eve online managed to do what No scifi should ever be able to do...
Make space boring."
So logg into Steam and read the reviews.....
Those comments are the BEST thing about EVE, it means that with the exception of a few morons, CCP is a turn off to people who can't think or figure things out for themselves. What's really ironic is that most of those people experienced this 'kinder, friendlier" EVE that is "easy to learn, hard to master" (lol). If they couldn't handle modern EVE that damn near plays itself for you (like how missions tell you how to run them, or how the game won't let you jump into danger the 1st time without a safety pop up), pre-2011 EVE would have given those reviewers a stroke lol.
What's really ironic is that steam charges them to download stuff that CCP gives them for free...
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2007
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:52:20 -
[21] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:the mainstream EVE players that has to much invested to be negative. Yes, the EVE forums certainly are the last place where you will find any criticisms of EVE. We're all smiles around here.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1792
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 03:52:05 -
[22] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:I've read that when people tell you why they don't like a game, they are probably right about what's wrong with it. Yahtzee was completely right about there being a lack of space dragons.
It's very positive right now, so I wouldn't worry too much.
Not just Space Dragons.
Where are the rideable Fedo Unicorns for the Captains Quarters I ask you ? |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1275
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 04:07:52 -
[23] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem.
Half of the population has below average intelligence.
So when "stupid people" are paying the bills, it doesn't really matter if "you see the problem" or not.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
758
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:22:02 -
[24] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Half of the population has below average intelligence. That's not how averages work.
For all we know 2/3 of the population could have far above average intelligence. 1/4 of the pop is so dumb as to bring the average IQ down to about 110%. The rest is WoWers. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:50:45 -
[25] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Linna Excel wrote:I've read that when people tell you why they don't like a game, they are probably right about what's wrong with it. Yahtzee was completely right about there being a lack of space dragons.
It's very positive right now, so I wouldn't worry too much. Not just Space Dragons. Where are the rideable Fedo Unicorns for the Captains Quarters I ask you ?
Well, CCP had plans to release those, but then monoclegate happened.
I can has blogging skills!
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7070
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Posted - 2015.12.23 05:09:42 -
[26] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:the mainstream EVE players that has to much invested to be negative. Yes, the EVE forums certainly are the last place where you will find any criticisms of EVE. We're all smiles around here.
Ooh, I got the sarcasm this time!! Do you have any idea how hard that can be for someone with autism? Hang on, let me try this as well...
I've never criticised EVE, or its developers, for anything ever. EVE is perfect and the devs can do no wrong. The ISDs are perfect too, and never overextend their authority for anything.
How'd I do?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Paranoid Loyd
7839
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Posted - 2015.12.23 06:14:57 -
[27] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Do you have any idea how hard that can be for someone with autism? You do just fine Remi, honestly I wouldn't even know except for the fact that you have mentioned it.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1556
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 06:34:47 -
[28] - Quote
People are revieving their playstyles. Its obvious looking at their revievs that they dont play this game right. They want to play it like some other kind of game. Like Valkyrie would be perhaps.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
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Murmanox
The Trembling Hand
0
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Posted - 2015.12.23 06:44:35 -
[29] - Quote
The highest ranking negative review is a victim of CODE. Now we know who the real villain is.
Quote:Right after the suicide gank, the guy who killed me sent me a message. He said I was guilty of inattentive mining and mining without a "permit," and if I didn't want other "accidents" to happen to my ship in his company's "territory", I should log online and pay his company some unreasonably high amount of ISK (in-game money) monthly. Say what you want, but this sounds like the mafia to me. The company that produces this game will do nothing, absolutely nothing, not a damn thing about these people. They simply allow it to happen. I refuse to play a game that supports the mafia.
And here's the first comment/reply.
Quote:i remember my days of playing halo, counterstrike and other fps games... people got kicked when they team killed or suicided. which is pretty much the same as what happened to you in high sec. They should have just set up a system so that the police track down your gamer tag and put you in prison for x amount of days for destroying another player depending on how much damage was done. boom problem solved. people can still be jerks but their will be a decent punishment. also their ship money etc can be transfered to you to cover your loses. the devs sound lazy. high sec is meant to be a save place.
Did Richard Garriott go back to high school? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1936
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:22:08 -
[30] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem. Half of the population has below average intelligence. So when "stupid people" are paying the bills, it doesn't really matter if "you see the problem" or not.
They're free to leave forcing CCP to shut down non-EVE and non-essential EVE projects, back to a better EVE.
Compare it to WOT: I'm not some elitist saying that anyone with more than 5k games played while below 49% WR and 1200 WN8 is a fcking moron who should be laughed at and kicked out. Some people are just better, some are worse, some care less or have bad internet or whatever and as long as someone is showing a pulse and brain activity he'll do semi ok. What I AM saying is that we really don't need 20k games 42% 600 WN8 shitclowns in their inevitable E100, JP E100 or Waffle E100 who **** up the game for everyone. They're below the threshold, too stupid to be called human and we can do without them just fine. |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2176
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:38:04 -
[31] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:No actual flying involved, no piloting, no cockpit view, just a 3rd person spreadheet management game with ridiculous subscription fees played mostly by lying **********"
whenever i see negative reviews like this i see it as a grrr code moment
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Aoife Fraoch
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:44:31 -
[32] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem. Half of the population has below average intelligence. So when "stupid people" are paying the bills, it doesn't really matter if "you see the problem" or not.
I think you mean median, not average. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4420
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:49:01 -
[33] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote an article about Steam reviews, back in 2014:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/the-strangers-viewpoint.html
Most of it would still ring true. EVE haves a godawful reputation among strangers. And those strangers are the only people left to maybe try it and maybe like it and maybe subscribe... if they overcome the bad reputation.
And once they subscribe, they have a 10% chance to become long term players.
CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2176
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:54:17 -
[34] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure.
what new player reads patch notes when deciding to play a game?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1937
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Posted - 2015.12.23 09:57:48 -
[35] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ripard Teg wrote an article about Steam reviews, back in 2014: http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/the-strangers-viewpoint.html Most of it would still ring true. EVE haves a godawful reputation among strangers. And those strangers are the only people left to maybe try it and maybe like it and maybe subscribe... if they overcome the bad reputation. And once they subscribe, they have a 10% chance to become long term players. CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure.
That article is terrible which isn't really a new thing for him, anyone going "look at how awesome E:D is" clearly hasn't played it and/or hasn't been paying attention. Also, 10% long term retention is amazing. Stop making up boogie man stories to try and further your cause, it's not working and everyone sees right through it. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28310
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:04:36 -
[36] - Quote
I keep typing ****** pig wrong... :/
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2011
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:18:56 -
[37] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: User reviews: Very Positive (3,343 reviews)
But this is something of a red herring anyway as review writers... aren't strangers. If someone who doesn't know a game writes a review, it can be dismissed out of hand.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
547
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:23:09 -
[38] - Quote
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198005923854/recommended/8500/
LOL that first negative review. Is this a stealth grr CODE. thread?
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28311
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:25:48 -
[39] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: User reviews: Very Positive (3,343 reviews) But this is something of a red herring anyway as review writers... aren't strangers. If someone who doesn't know a game writes a review, it can be dismissed out of hand. People who read his crap will agree with him.
The rest wonders if he ever undocks...
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2177
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:41:18 -
[40] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: User reviews: Very Positive (3,343 reviews) But this is something of a red herring anyway as review writers... aren't strangers. If someone who doesn't know a game writes a review, it can be dismissed out of hand. People who read his crap will agree with him. The rest wonders if he ever undocks...
I think she reads too many blogs, if its on the internet it must be true huh
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4420
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:47:37 -
[41] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure. what new player reads patch notes when deciding to play a game?
You're asking it wrong. What new and exciting features that could be sold or marketed to new players will not show up on patch notes?
So when the patch notes contain no marketable/sellable new stuff, this means that all the new content from the patches is worthless to the relevant matter of gaining new players.
It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players.
EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017.
And that's not good.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1938
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:53:46 -
[42] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure. what new player reads patch notes when deciding to play a game? You're asking it wrong. What new and exciting features that could be sold or marketed to new players will not show up on patch notes? So when the patch notes contain no marketable/sellable new stuff, this means that all the new content from the patches is worthless to the relevant matter of gaining new players. It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players. EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017. And that's not good.
To a newbie everything is new and exciting so your "logic" (lol) makes no sense, you're just trying to further your "I want more pve content" cause. You want bi-annual PVE content updates, you know... expansions. Go play another game for that. You don't care for newbies, you don't care for "the betterment of the game". You just want more PVE content for yourself. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2178
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:55:23 -
[43] - Quote
so what do you suggest then? that doesnt involve turning the game into a 100% single player pve joke of a game which you clearly want the it to become.
have tutorials been redone? do new characters get more sp? have they talked about reworking the whole pve system? skill packets, new frigates and destroyers, you market something on what you can achieve not what you start with and they have been marketing pretty well imo
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1939
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:04:13 -
[44] - Quote
What really does need help are the tutorials (or what's left of them). The problem is, as it always is, that people are incapable of thinking outside the box and thus most solutions they choose will be based on changing stats and stuff like that. What is needed is a mind leap but that rarely happens.
You CAN make tutorials that will entice people to play, to hang in there and give them a reason to force themselves to get used to that different mind set that is required for EVE. The problem is that, as always, people do the "no child left behind" kind of thing that ultimately results in mediocrity. |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1188
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:08:24 -
[45] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:No actual flying involved, no piloting, no cockpit view, just a 3rd person spreadheet management game with ridiculous subscription fees played mostly by lying **********"
"Takes too long to establish yourself without becoming a wage slave to some other player. I can do that in real life, I don't need a simulator for that type of thing."
*LOUD METALLIC SATANIC LAUGHTER INTENSIFIES*
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Kieron VonDeux
109
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:31:26 -
[46] - Quote
I think those reviews really shows why Eve has never exploded in popularity. And that may be a blessing in disguise. Most who would join during a sub explosion probably wouldn't stick around when things got more difficult, and interesting. Why? Because in Eve in order to be really successful, you have to play it like it really is a second life. Too many people actually put their RL friends and families far ahead of any game, and the first time you told them about a required alarm clock OP, they would say, laters....
And I think that goes to the core of why Eve is a niche game. Being successful in Eve is really tailored to those who have no job or no life. Of course some are lucky to be in a situation where they can do all three with little interference. I would suggest that is the exception to the rule. Its really hard to focus on three of any Job, Life, College, or online game like Eve Online. It is really like having a second life, or going to college.
And that makes it niche.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1940
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:39:56 -
[47] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:I think those reviews really shows why Eve has never exploded in popularity. And that may be a blessing in disguise. Most who would join during a sub explosion probably wouldn't stick around when things got more difficult, and interesting. Why? Because in Eve in order to be really successful, you have to play it like it really is a second life. Too many people actually put their RL friends and families far ahead of any game, and the first time you told them about a required alarm clock OP, they would say, laters....
And I think that goes to the core of why Eve is a niche game. Being successful in Eve is really tailored to those who have no job or no life. Of course some are lucky to be in a situation where they can do all three with little interference. I would suggest that is the exception to the rule. Its really hard to focus on three of any Job, Life, College, or online game like Eve Online. It is really like having a second life, or going to college.
And that makes it niche.
You can play EVE as chill, low intensity and relaxed as you want. You just need to be not dumb.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2179
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:I think those reviews really shows why Eve has never exploded in popularity. And that may be a blessing in disguise. Most who would join during a sub explosion probably wouldn't stick around when things got more difficult, and interesting. Why? Because in Eve in order to be really successful, you have to play it like it really is a second life. Too many people actually put their RL friends and families far ahead of any game, and the first time you told them about a required alarm clock OP, they would say, laters....
And I think that goes to the core of why Eve is a niche game. Being successful in Eve is really tailored to those who have no job or no life. Of course some are lucky to be in a situation where they can do all three with little interference. I would suggest that is the exception to the rule. Its really hard to focus on three of any Job, Life, College, or online game like Eve Online. It is really like having a second life, or going to college.
And that makes it niche.
I use to play a game before eve where you could be attacked anytime, even when logged off, if you held assets which were wanted by other players then you would get attacked outwith your timezone, silly oclock in the morning you would get skype calls telling you you are being attacked or you lost some major stuff which you had to grind for years to get only to get bent over by by a whole alliance trying to take it off you, stuff that took years to build would be destroyed in a matter of minutes when your not even online.
i came to eve and it was such a walk in the park, dock up, log off and you dont need to worry about anything.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4420
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:43:03 -
[49] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:so what do you suggest then? that doesnt involve turning the game into a 100% single player pve joke of a game which you clearly want the it to become.
have tutorials been redone? do new characters get more sp? have they talked about reworking the whole pve system? skill packets, new frigates and destroyers, you market something on what you can achieve not what you start with and they have been marketing pretty well imo
I would suggest judging players on what they say and do, not what you imagine. One of the nice things of being a prolific critic of the game is that I don't need to hide my agenda...
As for attracting new players with the existing content, that's exaclty what CCP has been doing since 2011, with the current result of dwindling population stats. The problem is more with the product than with marketing, though.
The current eveonline page is awesome (hint: visit it!) and I wish I could show it to some potential new player. I would even bite my tongue on his chances to become a long term player or do anything portrayed in the "This is EVE" video with only his skill and dedication.
But the game is what it is. If a player is lucky, he will find the right people to do the right thing in the right way. Otherwise, he's 90% certain to hit a brick wall sooner or later. He will do the wrong thing, or will meet the wrong people, or will play the wrong way. And then there's no "This is EVE" for him, but a essentially unfun game.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1940
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:44:39 -
[50] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so what do you suggest then? that doesnt involve turning the game into a 100% single player pve joke of a game which you clearly want the it to become.
have tutorials been redone? do new characters get more sp? have they talked about reworking the whole pve system? skill packets, new frigates and destroyers, you market something on what you can achieve not what you start with and they have been marketing pretty well imo I would suggest judging players on what they say and do, not what you imagine. One of the nice things of being a prolific critic of the game is that I don't need to hide my agenda...As for attracting new players with the existing content, that's exaclty what CCP has been doing since 2011, with the current result of dwindling population stats. The problem is more with the product than with marketing, though. The current eveonline page is awesome (hint: visit it!) and I wish I could show it to some potential new player. I would even bite my tongue on his chances to become a long term player or do anything portrayed in the "This is EVE" video with only his skill and dedication. But the game is what it is. If a player is lucky, he will find the right people to do the right thing in the right way. Otherwise, he's 90% certain to hit a brick wall sooner or later. He will do the wrong thing, or will meet the wrong people, or will play the wrong way. And then there's no "This is EVE" for him, but a essentially unfun game.
Feel free to leave to a more fun game.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28324
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:45:43 -
[51] - Quote
But but but her cognitive dissonance and delusional self importance! D:
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Lathael
Inner Ring Conglomerate
10
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:55:26 -
[52] - Quote
The reviews are so true ^^ Thx for the post +1.
I will read definetly more of them. Refreshing to read something different than responses from fanboys. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2181
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:56:35 -
[53] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so what do you suggest then? that doesnt involve turning the game into a 100% single player pve joke of a game which you clearly want the it to become.
have tutorials been redone? do new characters get more sp? have they talked about reworking the whole pve system? skill packets, new frigates and destroyers, you market something on what you can achieve not what you start with and they have been marketing pretty well imo I would suggest judging players on what they say and do, not what you imagine. One of the nice things of being a prolific critic of the game is that I don't need to hide my agenda...As for attracting new players with the existing content, that's exaclty what CCP has been doing since 2011, with the current result of dwindling population stats. The problem is more with the product than with marketing, though. The current eveonline page is awesome (hint: visit it!) and I wish I could show it to some potential new player. I would even bite my tongue on his chances to become a long term player or do anything portrayed in the "This is EVE" video with only his skill and dedication. But the game is what it is. If a player is lucky, he will find the right people to do the right thing in the right way. Otherwise, he's 90% certain to hit a brick wall sooner or later. He will do the wrong thing, or will meet the wrong people, or will play the wrong way. And then there's no "This is EVE" coolness for him, but a essentially unfun game.
your agenda is made of up from half released stats which you have added arms and legs onto and came up with a conclusion that the game is broken, and you constantly complain about it.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:16:23 -
[54] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure. what new player reads patch notes when deciding to play a game? One poking around the launcher while the game downloads. There's (usually) a link to the patch notes in the right frame.
To a newbie, that's not going to mean much.
A signature :o
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1517
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:17:21 -
[55] - Quote
The purpose of this thread is interesting. I personally think the opinions on Steam are a fantastic barometer of what your average gamer think of EVE. It can only help the development team move forward.
That said, please be very careful in expressing yourself appropriately on these forums. Please read our rules and ensure you don't turn a constructive topic into a troll/rant/off-topic fest.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28341
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:32:42 -
[56] - Quote
ISD Decoy wrote:The purpose of this thread is interesting. I personally think the opinions on Steam are a fantastic barometer of what your average gamer think of EVE. It can only help the development team move forward. i hope they don't touch it even with stick...
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Temporary Amnesia
Dutch Rudder Holdings
51
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Actually, I'd recommend reading the Steam reviews for other MMO's, WoW, SWTOR, and Guild Wars for example. See if they're any different. Then you can form an opinion about Steam reviews... and the people who write those reviews.
or make an an opinion of current state of mmo's out there - just saying |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2181
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:40:56 -
[58] - Quote
Temporary Amnesia wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Actually, I'd recommend reading the Steam reviews for other MMO's, WoW, SWTOR, and Guild Wars for example. See if they're any different. Then you can form an opinion about Steam reviews... and the people who write those reviews. or make an an opinion of current state of mmo's out there - just saying
whats the current state of mmo's?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28343
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:42:38 -
[59] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Temporary Amnesia wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Actually, I'd recommend reading the Steam reviews for other MMO's, WoW, SWTOR, and Guild Wars for example. See if they're any different. Then you can form an opinion about Steam reviews... and the people who write those reviews. or make an an opinion of current state of mmo's out there - just saying whats the current state of mmo's? They aren't really MMOs, so the question is kind of useless ...
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
394
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:45:41 -
[60] - Quote
most steam reviews are not helpful, some do bother their hole to write a decent one, but most are just whining feckers who havent a clue what they are talking about.
what's CCP counter to these reviews?
Oh and why haven't us lot done a review?
just sayin |
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1945
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 12:48:13 -
[61] - Quote
Temporary Amnesia wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Actually, I'd recommend reading the Steam reviews for other MMO's, WoW, SWTOR, and Guild Wars for example. See if they're any different. Then you can form an opinion about Steam reviews... and the people who write those reviews. or make an an opinion of current state of mmo's out there - just saying
Dude, your face... |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2016
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 13:06:45 -
[62] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:But the game is what it is. If a player is lucky, he will find the right people to do the right thing in the right way. Otherwise, he's 90% certain to hit a brick wall sooner or later. He will do the wrong thing, or will meet the wrong people, or will play the wrong way. And then there's no "This is EVE" coolness for him, but a essentially unfun game. An excellent articulation of why missions etc should be removed from the game.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13198
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 13:17:23 -
[63] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so what do you suggest then? that doesnt involve turning the game into a 100% single player pve joke of a game which you clearly want the it to become.
have tutorials been redone? do new characters get more sp? have they talked about reworking the whole pve system? skill packets, new frigates and destroyers, you market something on what you can achieve not what you start with and they have been marketing pretty well imo I would suggest judging players on what they say and do, not what you imagine. One of the nice things of being a prolific critic of the game is that I don't need to hide my agenda...As for attracting new players with the existing content, that's exaclty what CCP has been doing since 2011, with the current result of dwindling population stats. The problem is more with the product than with marketing, though. The current eveonline page is awesome (hint: visit it!) and I wish I could show it to some potential new player. I would even bite my tongue on his chances to become a long term player or do anything portrayed in the "This is EVE" video with only his skill and dedication. But the game is what it is. If a player is lucky, he will find the right people to do the right thing in the right way. Otherwise, he's 90% certain to hit a brick wall sooner or later. He will do the wrong thing, or will meet the wrong people, or will play the wrong way. And then there's no "This is EVE" for him, but a essentially unfun game. Feel free to leave to a more fun game.
Fazmarai did leave...and come right back , like they always do lol. Isn't it amazing how a game can be so rotten and filled with unsavory people and yet at the same time so irresistible?
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 13:24:43 -
[64] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
You never stated anything specific in that thread other than PVE should affect others. You also talk about some diffuse PVE tools you want introduced. But you always stay unclear, and never state any specifics of what you want implemented. Why don-¦t you answer Lan Wang-¦s question "so what do you suggest then"? Make it specific, what do you want added to the game, instead of just saying that CCPs methods for attracting new players are wrong. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
262
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 13:39:59 -
[65] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote: stuff
so?
if CCP is smart they completely ignore random interwebs feedback in their development work, but focus on it in their marketing efforts.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4420
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 14:37:54 -
[66] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: You never stated anything specific in that thread other than PVE should affect others. You also talk about some diffuse PVE tools you want introduced. But you always stay unclear, and never state any specifics of what you want implemented. Why don-¦t you answer Lan Wang-¦s question "so what do you suggest then"? Make it specific, what do you want added to the game, instead of just saying that CCPs methods for attracting new players are wrong.
2 1/2 years ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3762623#post3762623
2 years ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4011805#post4011805
After being unsubbed for a year...
8 months ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5642967#post5642967
7 months ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5760066#post5760066
And even before that I didn't knew the English name for "collectible cards" and was talking about the same concept in other ways, so those messages are harder to search. Probably I started writing about the concept in late 2012, when it was obvious that CCP had given up on avatars and I began shifting focus to salvaging PvE.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7078
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 14:41:49 -
[67] - Quote
So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Taunrich Kaufmann
Caldari Mercantile Consortium
37
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 14:47:58 -
[68] - Quote
Regarding the Steam reviews, how can you even review EVE after only a month or two?
I hate to be 'that guy' but mainstream gamer kiddies' opinions of EVE are pure cancer and you should never subject yourself to that kind of torment.
When we first saw the flock, we were surrounded..Brilliant colors, dancing lights...This moment is the first time I understood what it meant to be Caldari: Divinity in the flock...one being, many changes.
- Janto Sitarbe, The Legendary Flock
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2189
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:00:59 -
[69] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
how does this in any way attract new players to the game? it sounds fckin boring
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2018
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Posted - 2015.12.23 15:02:17 -
[70] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again. No, no, you're forgetting compelling mechanics such as "you must fight NPCs to assemble a defense deck or someone might randomly delete 1 million of your skillpoints".
Nothing says compelling content like "do this content or we will punish you".
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
|
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1955
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:03:15 -
[71] - Quote
Taunrich Kaufmann wrote:Regarding the Steam reviews, how can you even review EVE after only a month or two? I hate to be 'that guy' but mainstream gamer kiddies' opinions of EVE are pure cancer and you should never subject yourself to that kind of torment.
It's the curse of the PC crowd, the "no child left behind" mentality. Funny thing is that they don't mean "you're not supposed to offend people", what they actually means is "don't offend me". And they don't mean "no child left behind" but actually "don't leave me behind". It's dumbing down to mediocrity, an idiocracy in the making.
Relevant. |
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:04:42 -
[72] - Quote
Eve is marmite ....
I like marmite
I bet marmite gets bad reviews on the peanut butter forums sometimes
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
1569
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:48:23 -
[73] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players.
EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017.
And that's not good.
For new player Everything in new game is new, so no need to bring new toys for him for a moment. For established players new toys are mandatory, but there is difference between legos and dolls, nonetheless, people play with both. I say you should be able to choose which legos you want for your doll and build a house in station from those legos, together with functionalities. Modularity was expected from WIS, so people didnt really got what they wanted.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú - my sandcastle
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ <=X - my yacht
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4422
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:52:05 -
[74] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game new PvP mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again.
FYP.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7085
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:54:22 -
[75] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game new PvP mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again. FYP.
Well I mean, if lying to yourself is THAT important to you, go right ahead.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4422
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 15:57:15 -
[76] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again. No, no, you're forgetting compelling mechanics such as "you must fight NPCs to assemble a defense deck or someone might randomly delete 1 million of your skillpoints". Nothing says compelling content like "do this content or we will punish you".
It's PvP. Fit a tank or risk to suffer a permanent but replaceable loss after you inflict a permanent but replaceable loss to another player.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7089
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:00:28 -
[77] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again. No, no, you're forgetting compelling mechanics such as "you must fight NPCs to assemble a defense deck or someone might randomly delete 1 million of your skillpoints". Nothing says compelling content like "do this content or we will punish you". It's PvP. Fit a tank or risk to suffer a permanent but replaceable loss after you inflict a permanent but replaceable loss to another player.
You try really hard to duck the points people make don't you? I mean, I used to think things were just flying over your head, but I'm sure now that you're dodging them intentionally.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13200
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:So.... your ideas for attracting more players to this PVP game is overhauling PVE content with collectible card game new PvP mechanics? Please go back to dev school and try again. FYP. Well I mean, if lying to yourself is THAT important to you, go right ahead. Don't expect to pull one over my eyes though.
And that's all you are going to get from that poster. Self serving ideas presented as "think of the children" goodness.
I think that's what irritates me about the kinds of posters that Fazmarai is the poster child of. They can't just say "hey, I want this for myself and think it would be cool" . No, it's always "this thing would be GREAT for new players!" I (and i would guess many others) can see right through it which is why we don't take the ideas seriously.
It's not unlike how politicians say "THE PEOPLE WANT THIS" when what they mean is "I, my party, and our special interests want this thing to happen" lol.
Fazmarai fits this bill perfectly with always talking about how CCP is neglecting "PVE players, who btw are the majority!". As if we in the PVE playing community elected Fazmarai to any office.. What's Ironic is that you can't hardly find any Indahmawar Fazmarai posts in the Missions and Complexes section which is pretty much PVE central.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:07:44 -
[79] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Appreciate you took the time to find those links. IMO. it seems like a pretty complicated system. I have two points: A) I don't see how this will bring in new players? You said yourself no new mechanics will make people join EVE. It is also too complicated to explain easily without people loosing interest.
B) If it is to make PVE feel more exciting, a more simple approach could be adapted. If one was to be "inspired" by the game(which may be vaporware or not) I mentioned in my PM to you some time ago, they found an interesting approach.
Radient missions. It would require a lot of reprograming but the system it self is simple. This would be my sugggestion how to apply radient missions to EVE, just from the top of my head:.
1) you remove the tiers of missions, and decouple it from agents. Also remove agents from the stations. Decouple it from standings as they have no purpose anymore.
2)You make a toogle in the menu "PVE mission- on/off". Couple this to adding a ship size toggle. So you can select what size ship you want to do the missions in.
3)When flying around in space, if the PVE missions is toogled on, you will be contacted by agents through the notification system(could make some npc corp (like concord etc.) responsible for hiring capsuleers to mission on behalf of everyone in new eden, and they are the ones contacting you), with missions that can be completed in the ship size you have selected in the menu. The reward is connected to ship size.
4) If you reject a mission, another one will pop up after x mins. of flying in space.
5) Specific themed missions could be coupled to certain areas to keep up with lore.
6) I would like to see them being spawned randomly when you are contacted, some times x destroyers, sometimes y. To make PVE less predictable.
7)when mission is completed, the isk is automatically transferred to you.
The advantage of this system would be:
-missions are less unpredictable.
-you don't have to return to station, so you are not bound to a certain area. Pick you ship size mission, fly around and you can go where ever space is taking you.
-People would have to fly around waiting for missions to pop up, exposing them to PVP.
-Having to fly around waiting not and not being bound to a station would perhaps create more nomads just flying around in low and null, increasing population in those areas (might also not)
-waiting x min. flying around will mess with the isk/hour mentality of a lot of people. This will IMO. make PVE more long time enjoyable, as you just taddle around in the universe pick a mission here and there. I think optimizing isk/hour and static missions are what make PVE unjoyable for me at least. This would fix all of that. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2022
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:10:13 -
[80] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:"you must fight NPCs to assemble a defense deck It's PvP. I thought the UI's new transparency effects were good, but you've got them beat.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
|
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4422
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:10:28 -
[81] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players.
EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017.
And that's not good.
For new player Everything in new game is new, so no need to bring new toys for him for a moment. For established players new toys are mandatory, but there is difference between legos and dolls, nonetheless, people play with both. I say you should be able to choose which legos you want for your doll and build a house in station from those legos, together with functionalities. Modularity was expected from WIS, so people didnt really got what they wanted.
WiS would have been a completely new game, which was necessary to expand the game and bypass the complexity creep of spaceships content. Now the complexity creep has become a battle cry for development in the 2013-2016 cycle and probably beyond that point. It's like embracing a benign tumour as a new way of living your life...
What I want is a slice of that complexity creep, and the larger the better.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7093
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:11:59 -
[82] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players.
EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017.
And that's not good.
For new player Everything in new game is new, so no need to bring new toys for him for a moment. For established players new toys are mandatory, but there is difference between legos and dolls, nonetheless, people play with both. I say you should be able to choose which legos you want for your doll and build a house in station from those legos, together with functionalities. Modularity was expected from WIS, so people didnt really got what they wanted. WiS would have been a completely new game,
Then make a new game called WiS. You can play that, and we'll play Flying Spaceships in Space EVE. Everyone wins.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1137
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:21:30 -
[83] - Quote
*wrings hands with glee*
It's threads like these that keep me coming back to GD.
Where people fall all over themselves to defend a product because they feel like it's part of their lifestyle (kind of like Apple products).
The fact of matter is that most people that try EVE give up on it. Those who remain are sado-masochists.
I firmly believe the gratest service you could do is shut this game down.
I will agree wholeheartedly with these people who say "change in EVE, not in muh game!"
See CPP has figured they should do better things with their time like Valkyrie, which I agree.
That game is targeted to mass markets and will be wildly successful.
Eventually EVE will be the unwanted step child of the company.
They'll toss around new ideas but the player base will say no. Plex will keep rising and many free loaders will be forced to give up their game.
Actually at this point I do not know where I am going with this.
Basically I am saying the ultimate gank will be when the servers will be shut down.
It might take a while, but it would be with it.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
|
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
900
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:42:37 -
[84] - Quote
Steam dudes are more into early access zombie survival games and pixel art.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4423
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:44:34 -
[85] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Appreciate you took the time to find those links. IMO. it seems like a pretty complicated system. I have two points: A) I don't see how this will bring in new players? You said yourself no new mechanics will make people join EVE. It is also too complicated to explain easily without people loosing interest.
The purpose of that suggestion is to improve the retention of PvE players by allowing them to generate content and have better options against PvP players. Of course it is complex in its depth, but it would be quite transparent for new players. Easy to learn, hard to master:
"Fly a mission and befriend a NPC for rewards. Missions are never the same because they are generated based on what other players do. Your NPC can defend you from NPCs controlled by other players and (to some extent) from human players. Conversely you can use your NPC to attack NPCs controlled by other players, and to some extent, attack human players. Different NPCs have different attacks and defenses. NPCs are tiered in ranks and there is a chance that controlling enough NPCs in a lower rank gives you access to a higher rank NPC. Top tier NPCs are lore NPCs with massive power, controlled and played by GMs. If you play your cards well, you could propose laws, overthrow a minister or elect a President and leave your permanent mark in EVE lore. But beware: Other players will be doing exactly the same"
sero Hita wrote:*a proposal of "radiant" missions*
That could be added as an evolution of anomalies. Yet from my experience and the feedback to Sugar Kyle's questions to the PvE community, removing old content (missions) is a NO-NO. Whatever is done to PvE, must be added without removing the current content.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7093
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:45:14 -
[86] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:The fact of matter is that most people that try EVE give up on it. Those who remain are sado-masochists.
Incorrect. Those that leave were always going to, because they fail to grasp the nature of EVE. Those that stay have a legitimate interest in the game to the point where it's a virtual hobby. But I guess if you really feel the need to refer to yourself as a sado-masochist, go right ahead, because in case you haven't noticed, you're subbed buddy.
Quote:I firmly believe the gratest service you could do is shut this game down.
To whom is this service being done, exactly? The people who quit, or the people who are still playing? Because I can assure you, the people who quit don't give a hoot if this game exists or not. They have no investment in it.
Quote:That game is targeted to mass markets and will be wildly successful.
Success is not synonymous with quality. That being said, Ferrari is a very successful car manufacturer also catering to a niche market. So please, explain to me what targeting mass markets has to do with success? Have you heard the old saying, you can't please everybody? Well, it's not true, because when you target specific demographics, you actually can please everybody.
Quote:Eventually EVE will be the unwanted step child of the company.
It's over a decade old mate. Older than WoW. When it was even harder than it is now, with less mass appeal, it was still growing very steadily in numbers.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7093
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:47:57 -
[87] - Quote
Quote:They'll toss around new ideas but the player base will say no. Plex will keep rising and many free loaders will be forced to give up their game.
We don't say no to new ideas, just the stupid ones. You might notice no one's really complaining about Frostline, or Citadels, or killmarks and updated meshes and shield effects. Dumbing down the game? Stupid idea. Making it more appealing for casuals at the expense of existing gameplay and options for hobbyists, as well as the nature and flavour of the game as it has had since its inception? Stupid idea. These are things that make EVE not EVE anymore. It'd be like putting the Millennium Falcon into a Star Trek movie.
Quote:Actually at this point I do not know where I am going with this.
I had a feeling you forgot to rehearse this speech.
Quote:Basically I am saying the ultimate gank will be when the servers will be shut down.
It might take a while, but it would be worth it.
Of course they will, eventually. But EVE will never die. All the stories and experiences of the players that did stick around, they'll live on forever. Hell, they're making a television show about this game based on the stories of the players. That's how successful this game is. This game also gets the attention of academics and media all around the world for its incredibly dynamic social complex, and there is literally nothing else like it in existence because of that dynamic alone.
Will it be worth it? Worth is a subjective value, so it'll depend on who you ask. You seem to have your issues with it, that's fine, but there's a big difference between you not liking something, and its actual demonstrable quality. I hate Ferrari, for example, but they are, demonstrably, exceptional cars.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3777
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:50:50 -
[88] - Quote
There's a large number of particularly stupid people who think spaceships and world war two airplanes are the same thing. Those people write dumb reviews. |
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
28
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:52:39 -
[89] - Quote
This could count as a negative review, but it's just so funny at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US92PR1tI1o |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1961
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:56:23 -
[90] - Quote
A solo player who has repeatedly stated he doesn't like nor bother with the Multiplayer part of games. It's funny yes but it's mostly a "I do some ****** gimmicks to gain views which hilariously clash with the games I 'review'". |
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1137
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 16:59:27 -
[91] - Quote
I like how people say "we" as if there is some glorious consensus.
We must stand united against the reactionaries least they ruin "our" vision.
Also I am only subbed because of free game time. I do this maybe one every six months and then leave.
The train wreck of the forums is my sole entertainment.
All this cognitive dissonance and groupthink. To be riled up about what mainstream gaming thinks of them.
Also toxicity.
My time is almost up so you won't see me again for a while.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
|
Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
28
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:02:18 -
[92] - Quote
Well, you can't exactly do much with just a 14 day trial account, and EVE is one of those games requiring long-term commitment to get the most out of it.
Otherwise, it is still rather a funny review, just because of how he talks about it.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13200
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:05:25 -
[93] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:*wrings hands with glee*
It's threads like these that keep me coming back to GD.
Where people fall all over themselves to defend a product because they feel like it's part of their lifestyle (kind of like Apple products).
The fact of matter is that most people that try EVE give up on it. Those who remain are sado-masochists.
I firmly believe the gratest service you could do is shut this game down.
I will agree wholeheartedly with these people who say "change in EVE, not in muh game!"
See CPP has figured they should do better things with their time like Valkyrie, which I agree.
That game is targeted to mass markets and will be wildly successful.
Eventually EVE will be the unwanted step child of the company.
They'll toss around new ideas but the player base will say no. Plex will keep rising and many free loaders will be forced to give up their game.
Actually at this point I do not know where I am going with this.
Basically I am saying the ultimate gank will be when the servers will be shut down.
It might take a while, but it would be worth it.
And yet here YOU still are. Your presence means you gave CCP money in one way or another. You don't much like the game, you hate the community, you don't seem to care much for the developers....
...But not only are you here, you came back. Those of us who like and fit in with the game aren't masochists, it's not painful for us, not in the least. But it's painful for you as evidenced by your own posts. On a forum that you enable by giving CCP some form of payment...
I will always find people like you fascinating, viewing something as a bad thing while at the same time doing something worse than the bad thing being criticized lol.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13200
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:11:03 -
[94] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I like how people say "we" as if there is some glorious consensus.
We must stand united against the reactionaries least they ruin "our" vision.
Also I am only subbed because of free game time. I do this maybe one every six months and then leave.
The train wreck of the forums is my sole entertainment.
All this cognitive dissonance and groupthink. To be riled up about what mainstream gaming thinks of them.
Also toxicity.
My time is almost up so you won't see me again for a while.
This part here is evidence of a sick mind. I'd be willing to bet that whatever neighborhood he lives in has recently suffered a rash of pet kidnappings. No one open his cellar door, or you'll be sorry. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
263
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:12:18 -
[95] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:*wrings hands with glee*
It's threads like these that keep me coming back to GD.
Where people fall all over themselves to defend a product because they feel like it's part of their lifestyle (kind of like Apple products).
The fact of matter is that most people that try EVE give up on it. Those who remain are sado-masochists.
I firmly believe the gratest service you could do is shut this game down.
I will agree wholeheartedly with these people who say "change in EVE, not in muh game!"
See CPP has figured they should do better things with their time like Valkyrie, which I agree.
That game is targeted to mass markets and will be wildly successful.
Eventually EVE will be the unwanted step child of the company.
They'll toss around new ideas but the player base will say no. Plex will keep rising and many free loaders will be forced to give up their game.
Actually at this point I do not know where I am going with this.
Basically I am saying the ultimate gank will be when the servers will be shut down.
It might take a while, but it would be worth it. And yet here YOU still are. Your presence means you gave CCP money in one way or another. You don't much like the game, you hate the community, you don't seem to care much for the developers.... ...But not only are you here, you came back. Those of us who like and fit in with the game aren't masochists, it's not painful for us, not in the least. But it's painful for you as evidenced by your own posts. On a forum that you enable by giving CCP some form of payment... I will always find people like you fascinating, viewing something as a bad thing while at the same time doing something worse than the bad thing being criticized lol.
just because of the forums mind!
Because these are such a trainwreck that a masochist simply can't resist. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1333
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:15:27 -
[96] - Quote
I feel that a lot of those negative reviews could have been avoided if new players are simply made aware that scamming, lying, ruining your day and the day of your dog is all acceptable in EVE, and that's one of the reasons it's so great. In other words, the NPE is still **** and newbies are still thrown into a shark tank with nothing more than a life vest.
I love EVE for all those things but I've had my share of frustrations and anger when I was new, so I can definitely understand the frustrations vented in those reviews. If a newbie keeps playing depends on if they have the determination to push on past those 'd*ckish' moments in EVE and build their own career.
That said, EVE is a game of musical back stabs. You can't trust anyone, this game promotes being distrustful of everyone and everything and that sort of gameplay isn't for everyone. Especially not in a gaming environment where every game holds your hand and cripples the gameplay to make sure you can't offend anyone. People have grown accustomed to games working in their favor 100% of the time. Entering EVE with a mindset like that is... a bad idea.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1961
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:25:16 -
[97] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I feel that a lot of those negative reviews could have been avoided if new players are simply made aware that scamming, lying, ruining your day and the day of your dog is all acceptable in EVE, and that's one of the reasons it's so great. In other words, the NPE is still **** and newbies are still thrown into a shark tank with nothing more than a life vest.
I love EVE for all those things but I've had my share of frustrations and anger when I was new, so I can definitely understand the frustrations vented in those reviews. If a newbie keeps playing depends on if they have the determination to push on past those 'd*ckish' moments in EVE and build their own career.
That said, EVE is a game of musical back stabs. You can't trust anyone, this game promotes being distrustful of everyone and everything and that sort of gameplay isn't for everyone. Especially not in a gaming environment where every game holds your hand and cripples the gameplay to make sure you can't offend anyone. People have grown accustomed to games working in their favor 100% of the time. Entering EVE with a mindset like that is... a bad idea.
The only way to avoid "I R stupid and died, what a **** game" reviews is by being upfront and honest about the game you're trying to market. If you state it to be harsh and unforgiving then bears will avoid it more and people who might be "eve material" will read that info, then read the "I'm dumb" reviews and make the connection.
The current raging of bears about the game not being bearish enough is the direct result of CCP's desire to attract more people. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7097
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:26:32 -
[98] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote: Also toxicity.
Ironic, since that's literally all you've brought to the table.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:54:36 -
[99] - Quote
It's strange that Eve still wants promotes the game as the only place to have massive player versus player battles. If anyone knows anything about engagement they should know that it's the small groups that provide the most engagement. This is supported by lots of research so the recent sov changes, the new logi ships and new logi mechanics resulting in notthing but Logi+1 makes it hard to understand the direction of the game.
If we had confidence that the game developers aren't just screwing mechanics up for "meh" and it was actually based on sound theory then perhaps the negativity wouldn't be as strong as it is.
I've always said force projection needed to happen but I also think punishing gamers for travelling was the wrong thing to do. I've said many times the cyno mechanic should really have been revolutionized into a interesting gameplay. I don't get why Jump bridges deal the same punishment also, there is always another way to control force projection and make it flexible enough for the gamers and these changes just felt like the easy route.
I've said many times EWAR just makes this game boring, dull and predictable and it makes people risk averse. This coupled with an outdated ship fitting service contributes to Eve livin up to "Spreadsheet online". This is another part of the game that could be revolutionized.
I've also pointed out null sec isn't the struggle so many null sec dweebs lead you to believe and thats the main cause for many of the null sec vs high sec arguments. For the most part the most interesting place to play, due to the amount of players available to interact with in the sandbox is high sec. When you see null sec is based on massive HP structures and consider "the n-effect" you can see why null sec is stagnant.
Most good businesses know it is much cheaper to keep loyal customers, I have a feeling that's wheat they were hoping to achieve with the Greed is good article a few years back (test the water to see how people would react to a massive game change); Once the community spoke CCP needed a new strategy meaning a concentration on affordable pvp.
Anyway my thoughts on the challenges of Eve. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 17:59:01 -
[100] - Quote
Nothing but hardliners for each side. It's like a two-party political system in here.
There is some truth in most every complaint about or praise of Eve. Denying the truth of that makes you just another lemming of one side or the other.
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Someone raves about how great Eve's sandbox is? Fine, fine. But don't deny that a not-insignificant number of kids in the sandbox have their fun by throwing sand in the other kids' eyes while justifying with "you consented to sand in your face by coming into the sandbox."
The game is great, though imperfect, and it's not for everyone. Step back a bit for some perspective and do yourself AND everyone else a favor by laying off the overly-extreme fanboy/hater stuff. |
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1966
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:07:57 -
[101] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Someone raves about how great Eve's sandbox is? Fine, fine. But don't deny that a not-insignificant number of kids in the sandbox have their fun by throwing sand in the other kids' eyes while justifying with "you consented to sand in your face by coming into the sandbox."
That's the point of a competitive sandbox.
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13201
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:21:20 -
[102] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. A small example is Tippia's new player skill plan just recently got both shorter AND cheaper.
The problem isn't how hard EVE is, it's the fact that no matter how easy you make it, it STILL won't appeal to dumb, lazy people ie most gamers. It was folly for CCP to try. What CCP should be doing is making the sandbox better for sandbox players (this does not mean just veterans, a real sandbox type player won't think twice about not being able to 'catch up' to veterans).
The bleeding heart types cling to the idea that if you just make it easier people will flock to the game. We have several years of proof that what happens in reality when CCP does this is that the game becomes less fun veterans while STILL being 'univiting' for most new players, because most new players need things EVE can't provide (like the feeling of being 'special') while still being EVE.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2434
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:30:30 -
[103] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:Someone raves about how great Eve's sandbox is? Fine, fine. But don't deny that a not-insignificant number of kids in the sandbox have their fun by throwing sand in the other kids' eyes while justifying with "you consented to sand in your face by coming into the sandbox." That's the point of a competitive sandbox.
Would cheater in a sandbox be the kids throwing sands while wearing ski mask or is escalating just the in-game representation of punching said ski mask kid in the face once sand throwing is seen as not effective? |
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
383
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:36:42 -
[104] - Quote
Another amusing thread
So there are negative reviews for Eve from the twitch hyper a.d.d chummies at steam. Oh be still my beating heart, the horror simply overwhelms me.
Eve is more than internet ships in space.
Its a community. Its a group of guys and girls spending time together in a virtual world of pretty much thier own creation. We plan together, build together and fly together. Ive even spent real time with people who before eve were total strangers but now feature on my besties list.
If you come in to the game with the attitude that it should all be handed to you on a silver platter, then you will not get to experience the interactions that makes eve special.
This game takes commitment, as well as possession of more than half a brain. Strangely enough for a computer game, you also need basic social skills, the ability to think strategically as well as tactically, and patience; lots and lots of patience. Ever wondered why a lot of serving and ex service types play eve? A good corp becomes your family, your muckers, your wingmen and women. You rely on them, they rely on you. BUT, come in with an attitude and they will kick you to the curb. Much like the military or a normal job.
But I pay for the game so it should be what i want it to be? Nah. No game can provide a perfect experience for everyone, but through attrition you attain a level where the game is near perfect for those who resubscribe.
Eve is "harsh" on new players. Ponder this for a moment; All players were new once, every single one of em, and if new players think its harsh now, well i'll let you into a little secret.. It's not as harsh as its been in the past. Incrementally CCP have made the game so much easier. Thats not bitter vet speak, thats a fact. Is this a good or a bad thing? Thats open to discussion.
For those complaining they have nothing to do while they skill up, i have nothing but derision. Go fly a piece of crap in a place you shouldnt be, and get the crap blown out of you while your skills increase. Trust me, its a rush, and fyi, your skill queue doesnt go inactive if you undock.
The problem with eve is not a problem with eve, its a problem with peoples feelings of entitlement and thier need for instant gratification coupled with a heavy dose of "penis" envy. The game is not about you, get over yourself and go join a frigfleet, or seriously go play something else.
I am Mithandra and i'm an Eve addict of long standing
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3781
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:36:56 -
[105] - Quote
There is only one sandbox, not many seperate sandboxes.
What you consent to is being in a sandbox that has other kids in it who are also entitled to do what they want with the sand, even if what they want to do upsets you.
If you want your own sandbox without other people in it you can go play x rebirth or some other trash. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4423
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:46:38 -
[106] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...)
Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915?
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28412
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 18:53:23 -
[107] - Quote
It's kind of funny that there are people who argue FOR the intellectually challenged ...
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2435
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 19:03:35 -
[108] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915?
Probably because you now have a **** lod of stuff to help you learn that didn't exist back then. The new pilot in 1915 didn't get the same form of training as they do now. All the hours you can spend on simulator to learn to fly. How many would-be pilot died crashing on their first run and now don't because all you get is a computer report telling you you ****** up?
EVE used to be "here's a ship, you can do things with it". |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13206
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 19:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915?
I don't know how to fly, so i don't know about that. What I have done is introduced a few people to EVE, and helped train guys who come in via other friends. A couple years ago I lent my incursion Maelstrom to a guy who was a couple months old who we'd been teaching the ropes.
He gave it back to me 2 or 3 days later because he was able to afford a faction gun Machariel from those 3 days of incursions, as oppsoed to my 3 months of grinding up a navy raven in a raven i borrowed from the guy who brought me in to EVE...
The 2015 EVE player has access to the accumulated knowledge present on youtube. In the past, not so much. The new player now can accumulate wealth in days that took months to do back then. The new player now starts with WAY more SP and has no learning skills to contend with.
The new player get s a pop up if he's about to accidentally jump into low sec. He gets a pop up if he tries to undock with a mission critical item. He gets a pop up if he tries to shoot someone he shouldn't. AND a safety. The new player gets UI/Overview presets unlike the blank slate that welcomed me in 2007. The new player gets an in game mission guide system that lets him mission without having to tab over to an out of game browser to look at EVE-Survival.
And yet with all this working on NPE this and opportunity that and CCP spending all this time and money, none of it has worked. That's because it CAN'T work, EVE is a game that will only ever appeal to a small subset of humanity (the subset that wants to think for themselves, learn things for themselves and find most MMOs to be insulting to their intelligence). CCP has been trying to keep people by giving them a helping hand, not understanding that people who need or would accept a helping hand won't like EVE no matter what you do.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
134
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 19:22:48 -
[110] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sadly, the current generation of gamers don't appear to want that level of control, especially if it means all the other gamers around them get the same level of control (ie meritocracy). It seems to be a mindset infiltrating many schools of thought, not just gaming, including academia: "I should have my freedom to speak, to choose, etc, and you should be made to listen, and not gank me while I'm mining ice."
I have a theory on why this has become so common; it basically boils down to selfishness and convenience. People are fundamentally selfish, it's just nature, but people should be taught not to be for a responsible society. In the past this was the job of parents or schools but now everyone is mollycoddled, leaving the selfish trait untouched. Media too prolongs this selfishness through shows about people driving around in their flash cars with all their cash saying to the audience "look at all this stuff I have and you dont, look how much fun I'm having". Ultimately people can put off growing up much longer and instead of trying to encourage them to, media takes the easy route and sinks to the lowest level.
These immature adults don't understand that other people exist in the same way as them, that they are not cardboard cutouts whose only purpose is to fill public places or cause problems in the "main character's" life. They also don't understand that sometimes you have to suffer inconveniences for a greater good, they see their immediate enjoyment as the greater good. Strangely enough it is exactly these immature adults who stand to benefit most from the life lessons that eve offers.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4423
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 19:55:04 -
[111] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915? I don't know how to fly, so i don't know about that. (...)
You skipped the main question. Adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices?
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42200
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 20:06:35 -
[112] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915? I don't know how to fly, so i don't know about that. (...) You skipped the main question. Adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a real life pilot has nothing to do with playing Eve.
As a metaphor it misses the mark as they are totally unrelated issues and there are no direct similarities. Whether learning to fly a plane now is more difficult or not than learning in 2015 has no relationship to whether learning to play Eve now is easier or harder than in 2005.
I'm not a pilot so I can only imagine that there is more involved in becoming a pilot now, whereas Eve is easier to learn now than when I first played in 2004, but that's just a personal view.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
135
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 20:14:03 -
[113] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915? I don't know how to fly, so i don't know about that. (...) You skipped the main question. Adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices?
If the new things are already extremely well documented to the point that no learning is involved then how is this difficult for anyone? Except of course those who either can't read or google.
The only new things that might make it harder are highsec groups like CODE or marmite because for a new player losing his one ship might hurt him more than one of us who has been playing longer. Still, gankers have always existed and have always done their thing; gankers gonna gank.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4424
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:07:34 -
[114] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:You skipped the main question. Adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a real life pilot has nothing to do with playing Eve. As a metaphor it misses the mark as there are no direct similarities to compare. Whether learning to fly a plane now is more difficult or not than learning in 1915 has no relationship to whether learning to play Eve now is easier or harder than in 2005. I'm not a pilot so I can only imagine that there is more difficulty involved in becoming a pilot now, whereas Eve is easier to learn now than when I first played in 2004, but that's just a personal view. Greater depth in the game =/= greater difficulty to learn
Oh there are similarities. In 1915 learning to fly was faster but dangerous, now it's safer but time consuming because there'a lot more things to learn.
Starting EVE in 2015 means starting a game where the list of things you don't know and can have you killed grows with each patch, and they favor people who already mastered PvP and just need ot update themselves. A new player doesn't even knows that there are patch notes and he should be reading them on top of all the other 200 things he needs to learn. The goalpost keeps moving each 5 weeks as complexity creeps. That is good for veterans since they move their asses, but also makes the game more difficult to learn to those who start with zero knowledge.
And with EVE being a PvP game, a new player just can't afford to ignore what the new ships/moudles/mechanics are... he must learn of them on top, I repeat, of everything else the vets needed to learn years ago. And the list just grows each 5 weeks.
Learning to fly in 2015 haves minimal chances to get you killed, compared to 1915. Aircraft are more reliable and are so sophisticate that many can be controlled with just a couple of LCD screens. But learning to fly one will take 15x more time than in 1915, even if you stick to single engine light aircraft... and that despite the massively greater education resources.
Learning to fly is safer, but not easier to learn. And EVE is not even safer.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
10
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:09:14 -
[115] - Quote
The real question here is how many of these negative reviews are friends/alts of Indahmawar Fazmarai. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9697
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:16:48 -
[116] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in. Yep. You called it.
The EVE family feels it's their God given right to be the only ones who can (constantly) rage about the game they pay for. And then a third party review is found and , joke or not, humorous or serious, it is attacked with the religious fervor that only comes from the basement dwelling neckbeard that has only one game at a time on his/her hard drive.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42200
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:20:31 -
[117] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Otso Bakarti wrote:Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in. Yep. You called it. The EVE family feels it's their God given right to be the only ones who can (constantly) rage about the game they pay for. And then a third party review is found and , joke or not, humorous or serious, it is attacked with the religious fervor that only comes from the basement dwelling neckbeard that has only one game at a time on his/her hard drive. Mr Epeen Who here is attacking a review with religious fervor like a basement dwelling neckbeard?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
11
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:24:01 -
[118] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Who here is attacking a review with religious fervor like a basement dwelling neckbeard?
Mostly 'peen himself!
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3795
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:40:58 -
[119] - Quote
The thing that gets me is that the negative reviews don't actually contain legitimate criticism. Almost all of it consists of "The players are mean and blew up my spaceships", "paying a subscription sucks, all MMOs should be F2P", "this game didn't provide me with instant gratification, thus it is trash.", "I tried to play this game solo and people who weren't playing solo had more fun than me." or are people telling you not to buy the steam version.
Very little has to do with actual gameplay, rather they have to do with the inherent nature of the game or with games having subscriptions in general. Those aren't problems you can really fix without making the game into something completely different, which may well kill the game completely. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2710
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 22:47:31 -
[120] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote: Face it. EVE isn't rolling new subs in. It's barely appeasing those it has who admittedly run multiple accounts and don't pay with money.
except its not. As of Eve Vegas, EVE players have an average of 1.4 accounts. that means less them a mjorty of eve players have more then 1 account. So this statement is flat out wrong
oh and late to the party i guess
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
|
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DaReaper
Net 7
2710
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 23:03:36 -
[121] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP's efforts to improve retention are doubtful at least. The efforts to attract new players are downright abysmal. Reading the patch notes is a depressing exercise if you look for anything that could grab the attention of potential non-players. What kind of subscription business grows by giving up on new subscribers? None that I can figure. what new player reads patch notes when deciding to play a game? You're asking it wrong. What new and exciting features that could be sold or marketed to new players will not show up on patch notes? So when the patch notes contain no marketable/sellable new stuff, this means that all the new content from the patches is worthless to the relevant matter of gaining new players. It is easy to read the patches and be like "woahh!!! Look at all these exciting new toys!", and be blindfolded to how those novelties mean absolutely nothing to new players. EVE development since Incarnageddon has become a mix of fixes and fanservice for nerds. The forecast is that this unhealthy development phase will last for as long as we know CCP's plans, all of next year and up to 2017. And that's not good.
you do understand what a "rebuild and repair" phase is right? and what typically happens immediately after?
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1801
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 23:14:06 -
[122] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915? Probably because you now have a **** lod of stuff to help you learn that didn't exist back then. The new pilot in 1915 didn't get the same form of training as they do now. All the hours you can spend on simulator to learn to fly. How many would-be pilot died crashing on their first run and now don't because all you get is a computer report telling you you ****** up? EVE used to be "here's a ship, you can do things with it".
Over half the deaths of WWI pilots occurred during training.
Of the half that survived training a large percentage did not make it to combat due to serious injuries and burns incurred in training.
The average WWI pilot that actually made it to an operational squadron had less than 15 hours training and lasted on average just 11 days in combat.
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
385
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 23:43:11 -
[123] - Quote
For some incomprehensible reason people are comparing eve to training to fly in 1915.
Weird
Yes there are more skills to learn , but guess what kiddies, unlike pikachu, you dont need to get them all
The only injury 90 percent of us are likely to get whilst training eve is repetitive strain injury. I dont even want to consider what sort of injury the other 10 percent are likely to get, but it probably revolves round that second monitor.
Why are the "fanboys" so vehement in thier defence of eve? I'll tell ya. Its in direct response to clueless asswipe rejects from lesser mmos descending enmass thinking that "just because" eve doesnt cater to the twitch crowd, it must be converted by the sword into some sort of substandard space sim, dumbed down for the masses, so that they, the dumb masses, can shine for a week before they move on to the next game that promises them vicarious shallow thrills.
Eve is a long term game. Pay the fee and get over it.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
94
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 00:06:43 -
[124] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:What really does need help are the tutorials (or what's left of them). The problem is, as it always is, that people are incapable of thinking outside the box and thus most solutions they choose will be based on changing stats and stuff like that. What is needed is a mind leap but that rarely happens.
You CAN make tutorials that will entice people to play, to hang in there and give them a reason to force themselves to get used to that different mind set that is required for EVE. The problem is that, as always, people do the "no child left behind" kind of thing that ultimately results in mediocrity.
The tutorials are fine, if anything they are too hard.... and there are a couple of good scams in there.... like they first teach you to loot, salvage and get greedy and then they say 'take this ship and blow up a tower', and having got you greedy, you don't take that ship, but the ship with you salvager and all the stuff you have been buying... and BOOM you lose it all
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1387
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 00:09:15 -
[125] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also I am only subbed because of free game time. I do this maybe one every six months and then leave.
The train wreck of the forums is my sole entertainment.
All this cognitive dissonance and groupthink.
Well that's certainly an interesting arrangement of thoughts.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
11
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 00:37:54 -
[126] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:...it must be converted by the sword into some sort of substandard space sim, dumbed down for the masses, so that they, the dumb masses, can shine for a week before they move on to the next game that promises them vicarious shallow thrills.
Eve is a long term game. Pay the fee and get over it.
I'd like this twice if I could, I really would. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7101
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 00:47:51 -
[127] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Amarrchecko wrote:
Someone says Eve is impossible for new players? How about instead of going berserk trying to argue the exact opposite, you admit the OBVIOUS truth that it's tough starting Eve, especially in 2015 as compared to 2005 or 2010.
Yea, it's easier, WAY easier than it was in the past. (...) Interesting... so adding more things to learn makes starting easier to the apprentices? Becoming a RL pilot in 2015 is easier than in 1915? Probably because you now have a **** lod of stuff to help you learn that didn't exist back then. The new pilot in 1915 didn't get the same form of training as they do now. All the hours you can spend on simulator to learn to fly. How many would-be pilot died crashing on their first run and now don't because all you get is a computer report telling you you ****** up? EVE used to be "here's a ship, you can do things with it". Over half the deaths of WWI pilots occurred during training. Of the half that survived training a large percentage did not make it to combat due to serious injuries and burns incurred in training. The average WWI pilot that actually made it to an operational squadron had less than 15 hours training and lasted on average just 11 days in combat.
Chiming in as a legitimately licensed aircraft pilot here. with ~2800 hours in fixed wing cabin monoplanes, 8 hours twin engine turboprop/turbojet, 2 hours jet, heavy, and 30 minutes rotary (not a big fan of flying helicopters, they give me goosebumps). I also scored a giftcard from some relatives to bum about in an old Air Force Aermacchi a few years back, that was fun a lot of fun.
First of all, there is a very big difference between learning to fly in peacetime, and learning to fly during a war, especially when you're training conscripts to replace veterans or, in the case of WWI, training most pilots from scratch because there is no such thing as veterans with lived experience to help out because nobody's ever flown before. Most pilots today also don't have to contend with the fact that the field they're training from isn't under the threat of bombardment or assault at any given moment.
That being said, as the technology improved and flight controls became more universal, learning to fly became very easy, very fast, and probably since the '30s, learning to fly has been considered easier than learning to drive. (To top that off, I'll add I had a private pilot's license before I had a driver's license.) The kinds of things that have changed since then is lighter aircraft for training, the kind that tend to be much easier for a rookie pilot to handle than the big, heavy fast stuff. Seriously, the wings of these little training monoplanes that I trained in when I was 16 clip on with some little aluminium buckles. They're designed that way so if there is an accident, and the plane hits something hard, the wings are more likely to come off the plane entirely than actually snap, spilling the fuel they contain everywhere and burning the occupants to death.
Anyway, I digress. Learning to fly has always been easier, but just like learning anything, it gets easier all the time. Even when the technology isn't being updated, the more people that know how to do it, and the more people learning new things, the closer it becomes to general knowledge. The same rules apply to understanding basic aviation principles as they do to understanding any academic concepts, especially in science - the things we've learned in the past add to the knowledge and understanding we gain in the future. IE, we build on the backs of the giants that came before.
And the same applies to EVE. For example, with just a link to battleclinic, a new player can learn some fundamentals of fitting his ship whereas back in the days before battleclinic existed, you had to figure it out or learn from someone else directly. Someone else, mind you, that might not have a lot of theorycrafting experience themselves. Now, we get all these cookie-cutter fits and you rarely see someone flying a ship that isn't fit according to some kind of 'conventional wisdom'. The same applies for gimmick fits like the 10mn confessor from a while back - someone figures it out, then suddenly everyone else is doing the same thing, and that becomes the 'conventional wisdom', despite the fact that there are many other very effective ways to fit the same ship with a variety of targets in mind.
Anyway, I'm off-track again. Pilot training vs learning to play EVE - I'll be honest, it took me longer to learn EVE than it did to fly. But again, it comes down to how much material is available based on how long the thing being learned has existed. We've been flying for over a hundred years now, while EVE has existed for a decade. And if anyone told me, right now, that they knew all there was to know about EVE, I would call them a liar and tell them to go away, because I don't believe anyone that plays this game isn't still discovering something new about it at least 'from time to time'. Whereas with aviation, if someone told me they knew everything about it, I would believe them if their flight experience was sufficiently high enough. A test pilot, for example, the only pilots in the world who actually take legitimate risks these days considering the current generation of combat aircraft pretty much do all the combat for you, and the next generation will probably be entirely unmanned. You don't become a test pilot, though, without a HUGE vault of aviation experience behind you, including and not limited to commercial, private, military, and rotary, and you won't get the job if you've never crashed a plane in your life either, because you need to know how to take bumps and survive them. cont...
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7101
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Posted - 2015.12.24 00:55:01 -
[128] - Quote
I think the question asked, though, was is learning to fly easier today than when flying first became a thing? Of course it is. It's always been pretty easy to begin with, and really isn't a very good comparative analogy to use against learning to play EVE Online. Has EVE become easier to learn over time?
Of course it has. You have a decade worth of experience from hundreds of thousands of players to learn from, documented all over the internet. One only need to learn to Google, and all your questions are answered. There's a tutorial now, as limited as it is, but that wasn't always there, and it seems to be evolving over time. There are things you can learn EVE from now that have not always been there, not to mention a new player gets the only legitimate safe space in the entire game, rookie systems, to learn the ropes in.
The real question is, for a game like EVE....
How easy do you want to make it for new players? What expectations of the game does the game itself need to teach them? Because EVE is a dangerous place, not a field of rainbows and lollipops. In my opinion, introducing a players to the difficulty levels they're likely to come up against as soon as possible will prepare them better for what's to come, because eventually, they're going to come up against some difficult stuff, and if the tutorials give them a false sense of ease with the game, they might get themselves a little more invested in it than they would have if they knew better, and then the moment things get a little hairy, boom, they're gone, just like they were always going to be, because let's face it, EVE is not for everyone.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6891
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Posted - 2015.12.24 01:44:23 -
[129] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:The only injury 90 percent of us are likely to get whilst training eve is repetitive strain injury. I dont even want to consider what sort of injury the other 10 percent are likely to get, but it probably revolves round that second monitor. I don't know, I thought you set the skillqueue and then log off to train efficiently. (Er, after you buy implants)
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4425
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Posted - 2015.12.24 04:25:32 -
[130] - Quote
@Remiel Pollard
I wasn't talking military aircraft because I am well aware of what grueling experience was to be a WWI era combat pilot. I was talking about civilian pilots.
The point I was trying to drive is that back in 1915 there were only so many things to learn about that crazy new technology and most of it was learned by practicing... with a large risk as machines were unreliable, technologies where dangerous (rotary engines...) and safety devices where crude or unexistant. A pilot was good to go with about 10 to 15 hours of flight lessons. Now, VFR theory alone takes 100 to 150 hours depending on the school, and practices range from 45 to 60 hours. IFR is in the range of 50 to 80 hours of theory and 20 to 30 of practice.
The technology is better, it is safer and it is more accessible. But it takes a lot more time because the environment is more complex and the minimum required knowledge is way superior, all the range from meteorology to satellite assisted navigation.
EVE is a more complex game now than when I started. The tutorials are marginally better, 3rd party resources are better, but the game itself is more complex, and is growing more complex with each patch. In October, nobody needed to care about kidnapping. Now it's something new piltots must learn on top of everything that was necessary to know in October, unless they're highseccers and aim to quit within a couple years.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42206
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Posted - 2015.12.24 04:34:43 -
[131] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE is a more complex game now than when I started. The tutorials are marginally better, 3rd party resources are better, but the game itself is more complex, and is growing more complex with each patch. In October, nobody needed to care about kidnapping. Now it's something new piltots must learn on top of everything that was necessary to know in October, unless they're highseccers and aim to quit within a couple years. Except that Indah, you equated depth in the game with difficulty and implied that Eve is a more difficult game to learn now than it was previously, just because there's more stuff in it.
More stuff doesn't automatically equate to great difficulty in Eve.
It's just more of the same stuff in relation to Eve. Not more difficult to learn as a player. It just takes a bit longer to experience it all.
But that's nothing other than two differing opinions, though I still struggle to see how the difference in learning to fly between now and 100 years ago means that Eve is more difficult to learn now, just because there's more stuff to learn.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4425
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Posted - 2015.12.24 04:58:26 -
[132] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:EVE is a more complex game now than when I started. The tutorials are marginally better, 3rd party resources are better, but the game itself is more complex, and is growing more complex with each patch. In October, nobody needed to care about kidnapping. Now it's something new piltots must learn on top of everything that was necessary to know in October, unless they're highseccers and aim to quit within a couple years. Except that Indah, you equated depth in the game with difficulty and implied that Eve is a more difficult game to learn now than it was previously, just because there's more stuff in it. More stuff doesn't automatically equate to great difficulty in Eve. It's just more of the same stuff in relation to Eve. Not more difficult to learn as a player. It just takes a bit longer to experience it all. But that's nothing other than two differing opinions, though I still struggle to see how the difference in learning to fly between now and 100 years ago means that Eve is more difficult to learn now, just because there's more stuff to learn.
FFS... !!!
*curses*
That's my whole point. Starting EVE is more difficult exactly because there are more things to learn. The knowledge that veterans have obtained gradually along years, now is dumped all at once on the new player.The basics of 2015 are more than in 2008 and so it takes longer to learn them and there's a greater chance that a unknown unknown gets a new player killed.
Learning n basic things every pilot must know in 2008 was easier than learning n+x basic things every pilot must know in 2015. If just because it takes longer and more disasters will happen along the way in more ways.
It's not just the TOTAL complexity what increases, also the MINIMAL REQUIRED complexity because in EVE eveybody faces the same complexity right from start.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42209
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Posted - 2015.12.24 05:06:53 -
[133] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:FFS... !!! *curses* That's my whole point. Starting EVE is more difficult exactly because there are more things to learn. The knowledge that veterans have obtained gradually along years, now is dumped all at once on the new player.The basics of 2015 are more than in 2008 and so it takes longer to learn them and there's a greater chance that a unknown unknown gets a new player killed. Like I said, just differing opinions and neither is more correct.
To use an analogy on the flip side, although I normally hate using them.
If I learn Algebra and then want to learn more Algebra. It isn't any harder to extend my knowledge, it just takes more time; because it's just more of the same stuff.
Same in Eve. It is just more of the same stuff. Not more difficult.
More =/= Greater difficulty.
From my perspective, when I started playing in 2004, then took 7 years off from 2006 and came back in 2013, I found the game had a lot more depth, but was a lot easier to learn. There are more safety systems in place then there were at the start - warning dialogs when jumping out of highsec and the module safety system for example. Then there are the third-party sites for missions, etc. that make the game easy to churn though.
You have a different view, which is fine. It's all off topic anyway.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4425
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Posted - 2015.12.24 05:16:58 -
[134] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:FFS... !!! *curses* That's my whole point. Starting EVE is more difficult exactly because there are more things to learn. The knowledge that veterans have obtained gradually along years, now is dumped all at once on the new player.The basics of 2015 are more than in 2008 and so it takes longer to learn them and there's a greater chance that a unknown unknown gets a new player killed. Like I said, just differing opinions and neither is more correct. To use an analogy on the flip side, although I normally hate using them. If I learn Algebra and then want to learn more Algebra. It isn't any harder to extend my knowledge, it just takes more time. More =/= Greater difficulty. You have a different view, which is fine. It's all off topic anyway.
But learning EVE is not learning algebra. It's learning to stay alive and enjoy the game. Not knowing the latest algebra development since last month won't harm you. Whereas in EVE the first result of adding new stuff to the game is the ability to kill easier those unaware of the changes. New players first.
Remember, my point is that complexity creep makes the game more difficult to acccess for new players. I feel like I've been arguing for pages about how a higher temperature makes more difficult to keep a popsicle frozen...
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42209
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Posted - 2015.12.24 05:24:35 -
[135] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:But learning EVE is not learning algebra. It's learning to stay alive and enjoy the game. Not knowing the latest algebra development since last month won't harm you. Whereas in EVE the first result of adding new stuff to the game is the ability to kill easier those unaware of the changes. New players first.
Remember, my point is that complexity creep makes the game more difficult to acccess for new players. I feel like I've been arguing for pages about how a higher temperature makes more difficult to keep a popsicle frozen... Is it learning to fly a plane then?
I think the general idea of a metaphor is only supposed to work one way.
Ok then. That highlights well why I so hate using them. People can interpret whatever you write how they want, even literally in a metaphor, rather than metaphorically.
All stupid from this point on.
Have a good Christmas Indah.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7103
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Posted - 2015.12.24 05:55:46 -
[136] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The technology is better, it is safer and it is more accessible. But it takes a lot more time because the environment is more complex and the minimum required knowledge is way superior, all the range from meteorology to satellite assisted navigation.
No, I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. It doesn't take more time at all. Learning to fly is recognised across the board of aviation experts as easier than learning to drive. And that's not a 98% consensus, it's not even a 99% consensus, it's a flat 100% consensus. It's a fact. A professional flight instructor can produce a competent pilot in less than 30 hours of real flight time. And the minimum required knowledge is basic aviation theory, and avionics. That's it. If you fly the bigger stuff, you learn about ILS and a few other things which are very easy to learn (seriously, less than 100 hours and you'll be considered expert enough to put peoples' lives in your hands). Satellite navigation in a plane is exactly the same as it is with a GPS in your car, and if you find that difficult to learn, then I can understand why you find EVE so difficult.
And you don't have to learn anything about meteorology, the meteorologists do, and they communicate with you advice about your route. Then you make a decision to go through, around, over, or under. Learning meteorology is entirely extra-curricula. As a private pilot like me though, you literally just need avionics and aviation theory. That's it, you're qualified and legally allowed to fly aircraft below a certain size all around the world.
Just because there are 'more things to learn' doesn't make it more difficult to learn, only more complex. It's actually very easy to learn, provided you possess the patience to meander amongst the complexity of the experience. Complex is not synonymous with difficult. And as a qualified pilot, I'm telling you straight up, EVE has been a longer learning experience than learning to fly, and only because there's always something new to learn, even stuff no one might even know about yet. This game is an experience in dynamic social evolution, so learning EVE is not limited to learning the mechanics. And it will always be that way so long as it remains EVE.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28483
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Posted - 2015.12.24 08:04:34 -
[137] - Quote
This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4426
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Posted - 2015.12.24 10:45:56 -
[138] - Quote
Ok, pa t+¡ la perra gorda.
Learning EVE with 5x more ships, 20x more mechanics and 50x more ways to die than now will be so easy that the average MMO player will be PvPing like a pro within 1 hour of starting the game, because the more things there are to learn, the easier it is to learn to play. Who am I to oppose the obvious, I just can't win.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Ria Nieyli
37071
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Posted - 2015.12.24 10:47:24 -
[139] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you."
Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28488
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Posted - 2015.12.24 10:48:41 -
[140] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ok, pa t+¡ la perra gorda.Learning EVE with 5x more ships, 20x more mechanics and 50x more ways to die than now will be so easy that the average MMO player will be PvPing in like a pro within 1 hour of starting the game, because the more things there are to learn, the easier it is to learn to play. Who am I to oppose the obvious, I just can't win.
Passive aggressive...
How weak.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28491
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Posted - 2015.12.24 10:51:34 -
[141] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you." Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention. If new people weren't mining and running missions like idiots it would probably be better.
I bet the security button added tons of subs, btw. And the FF toggle.
CCP needs to stop catering to the weak.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Ria Nieyli
37074
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Posted - 2015.12.24 10:56:57 -
[142] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:"I've played this game for years on and off, just not on Steam. It's a great game, if you started playing it at least about 5 years ago. You will die. A lot. You will never have anything. Someone will trick you into giving away your kidneys in Jita. Just click away. Don't you EVER get this game. 10/10 though. But not for you new guy. Not for you." Then people wonder why EVE has low player retention. If new people weren't mining and running missions like idiots it would probably be better. I bet the security button added tons of subs, btw. And the FF toggle. CCP needs to stop catering to the weak.
:-) |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
576
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Posted - 2015.12.24 12:59:43 -
[143] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Otso Bakarti wrote:Time for the apologists, fanbois and sneaky petes to chime in. No, not really. We can detect flame bait posts when we see them. The initial post is clearly designed to inflame the EVE players against the Steam reviewers. The OP's follow-up post is an attack aimed at veterans. And your post continues the attack while tying it into the original flamebait topic. I'm guessing you're an alt. So, no thanks, and IBTL. I find it difficult to imagine someone can read what the OP posted then come up with this conclusion. But, then, these days the hard to imagine is getting easier and easier to believe. I'll just say this reaction is a wild misreading that smacks of intent itself...if the OP is the pot as this response infers, than this response is the kettle calling it black.
Careful who you correct, cuz.
There just isn't anything that can be said!
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Rhalina Sedai
Notice Has Been Served
32
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Posted - 2015.12.24 13:20:56 -
[144] - Quote
I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification.
FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
392
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Posted - 2015.12.24 14:15:42 -
[145] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.
Can't breathe, laughing so hard, sides hurting,
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28533
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Posted - 2015.12.24 14:16:56 -
[146] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Solecist Project wrote: This feels like special needs kids argueing with Einstein about how the universe works.
Can't breathe, laughing so hard, sides hurting, Merry Christmas! :D
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7115
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Posted - 2015.12.24 14:40:37 -
[147] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ok, pa t+¡ la perra gorda.Learning EVE with 5x more ships, 20x more mechanics and 50x more ways to die than now will be so easy that the average MMO player will be PvPing like a pro within 1 hour of starting the game, because the more things there are to learn, the easier it is to learn to play. Who am I to oppose the obvious, I just can't win.
Earlier this year, I found a guy who'd only been playing since 2014, and had maybe a dozen kills on his KB, all CODE catalysts with top damage by concord. Within a week with me, he was in lowsec with a meta 4 Thorax killing a 2008 toon in a t2 fit rupture. He got that kill with less than 5 mil SP.
Don't tell me this game is hard to learn, because I've literally seen otherwise. It's complex to learn, not hard. With the right training plan, though, one that gives a new person the freedom to choose as much as the game itself does, they WILL be pvp pros within at least a week. Maybe not an hour, but I'm calling out your hyperbole on that one.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Jenn aSide
ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13212
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Posted - 2015.12.24 15:02:27 -
[148] - Quote
Rhalina Sedai wrote:I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification.
+1
The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful).
If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo.
My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten...
In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'.
Screw that. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7117
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Posted - 2015.12.24 15:09:57 -
[149] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Rhalina Sedai wrote:I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. +1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that.
Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Jenn aSide
ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13214
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:24:39 -
[150] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Rhalina Sedai wrote:I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. +1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that. Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism.
I happily stand corrected
|
|
Ria Nieyli
37126
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:30:01 -
[151] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:+1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that.
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
720
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:37:33 -
[152] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem.
Your mission is not to get rid of stupid but to make them try.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6334
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:47:51 -
[153] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Rhalina Sedai wrote:I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. +1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that. Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism. I happily stand corrected For EVE to be successful (after a dozen years), informed citizens all agree that it needs to adopt the following mindset (catchphrases) ASAP.
"No player left behind" "Everyone's a winner" "Freedom is slavery" "Ignorance is strength" "War is peace"
... otherwise, this game will NEVER take off...
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6334
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:51:02 -
[154] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:+1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that. Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28545
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:51:59 -
[155] - Quote
And don't forget that highsec needs to be safe space for the new players.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Ria Nieyli
37126
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 15:55:35 -
[156] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most.
Figuring out how and when to use game mechanics is a core tenet and the stumping block of every game out there. Which is something that someone with previous gaming experience should be used to. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7122
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:05:27 -
[157] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Rhalina Sedai wrote:I play Eve also WoW both games bring different challenges not so much wow but Eve is the true hardcore mmo, glad to be a part of it. Those morons that write steam reviews like the wow model, fair enough I say. They obviously don't have the brains to progress past the tutorials in Eve and have no clue how to go about doing things unless it is spoon fed into them. Eve has a large learning curve with no endgame, we make the play. Some people obviously cannot for whatever reason come to grips with this so they just write ****** reviews for people who want instant gratification. +1 The FIRST thing I ask a true 'new player' I'm going to show the ropes to is "have you played other MMOs and and other kinds of games like RTSs or MOBAs or FPSs". This tells me what kind of preconceived notions I'm going to have to overcome in training them (i learned to do that in real life, on my job we get people from diverse background like military, prior law enforcement, some other kind of government job, or right out of college, private security and unrelated private business..it maters because each field teaches different things that are useful and/or unhelpful). If they say they played some other popular mmo, I know it's the regular mmo mindset I'm most likely up against (which can be summed up as "grind mobs, do quests, level up, acquire gear". If it's MOBAs or FPS games I'm probably dealing with someone who likes instant gratification. Not surprisingly, players who come with loads of RTS experience are the easiest to teach EVE to lol, even more so than people with no game experience imo. My experience teaching new players has shown me how EVE isn't for everyone. Other MMOs cater to human nature, letting the player feel 'special' and protecting them form others. EVE (regardless of what the lore says about being some kind of special "immortal") tells you you are a scrub, throws you into a shark tank and laughs when you get eaten... In other words, EVE treats you as an adult (or at least it used to before all the safeties and pop ups, I keep waiting for EVE to present me with a participation trophy one day). Most gamers don't want that from a game. And the more 'egalitarian' forum goes here think that should change so we can 'get more players'. Screw that. Legitimate egalitarianism in EVE would be the meritocracy we have now. What people are asking for, when they ask for things like 'accelerated skill training', is affirmative action. That's not egalitarianism. I happily stand corrected For EVE to be successful (after a dozen years), informed citizens all agree that it needs to adopt the following mindset (catchphrases) ASAP. "No player left behind" "Everyone's a winner" "Freedom is slavery" "Ignorance is strength" "War is peace" ... otherwise, this game will NEVER take off...
Don't forget 'listen and believe'.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28547
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:15:56 -
[158] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Well, the actual game mechanics are fairly basic (for the most part), figuring out how and when to use those mechanics to successfully attain your goals has proven to be the challenge for most. Figuring out how and when to use game mechanics is a core tenet and the stumping block of every game out there. Which is something that someone with previous gaming experience should be used to. I'm not sure that'snaccurate for most games nowadays. People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.
There's a big difference between throwing someone into the sea so he learns swimming ... ... or teaching someone how to swim by telling him how it works.
The former is far more effective, because it forces people to use their brains. The latter is just information intake with no deeper thought process behind it.
So, while I don'tmdisagree with you, I believe that the modern gamer has degraded mostly to a pattern based robot with no thinking skills whatsoever.
Just look at all the special needs kids here on the forums who can't even figure out how to use google. Or how to form a coherent thought. Or how logic works. Or what PvP means. Too long, that list ...
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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Jenn aSide
ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13214
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:23:50 -
[159] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.
Exactly. CCP might not think so, But I think all those helpful guides, pop ups and safeties hurt more than help. Feeling 'pain' (like the emotional pain you feel when you accidentally jump into low sec and get killed, like most of us did prior to 2011) can be highly motivating.
This is why I wasn't surprised when CCP Rise talked about not only being unable to fine proof that ganking makes people leave but also about the idea that it might even make some people stay longer. A game that ticks you off (or lets people tick you off) is way more interesting than a game that strives to keep you from getting ticked off.
I'll bet you many of those negative steam reviewers never really got killed while playing EVE but rather mostly did low level pve in safety and got bored. |
Ria Nieyli
37127
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:28:04 -
[160] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.
Exactly. CCP might not think so, But I think all those helpful guides, pop ups and safeties hurt more than help. Feeling 'pain' (like the emotional pain you feel when you accidentally jump into low sec and get killed, like most of us did prior to 2011) can be highly motivating. This is why I wasn't surprised when CCP Rise talked about not only being unable to fine proof that ganking makes people leave but also about the idea that it might even make some people stay longer. A game that ticks you off (or lets people tick you off) is way more interesting than a game that strives to keep you from getting ticked off. I'll bet you many of those negative steam reviewers never really got killed while playing EVE but rather mostly did low level pve in safety and got bored.
Confirmation bias. This game is advertised as a PvP thing, of course that people that stay aren't dettered by PvP. |
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Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
553
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:31:21 -
[161] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining.
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9870
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:31:45 -
[162] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:And don't forget that highsec needs to be safe space for the new players.
And HoleySheet. Don't forget HolySheet!
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
|
Jenn aSide
ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13214
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:32:41 -
[163] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
People do not really learn when help messages constantly tell you what to do.
Exactly. CCP might not think so, But I think all those helpful guides, pop ups and safeties hurt more than help. Feeling 'pain' (like the emotional pain you feel when you accidentally jump into low sec and get killed, like most of us did prior to 2011) can be highly motivating. This is why I wasn't surprised when CCP Rise talked about not only being unable to fine proof that ganking makes people leave but also about the idea that it might even make some people stay longer. A game that ticks you off (or lets people tick you off) is way more interesting than a game that strives to keep you from getting ticked off. I'll bet you many of those negative steam reviewers never really got killed while playing EVE but rather mostly did low level pve in safety and got bored. Confirmation bias. This game is advertised as a PvP thing, of course that people that stay aren't dettered by PvP.
Ok, that makes no sense at all.
|
Ria Nieyli
37127
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:37:44 -
[164] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ok, that makes no sense at all.
EVE is advertised as a single shard PvP universe. People that try it out expect to fight other players.
Then they get ganked.
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1981
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:41:51 -
[165] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem. Your mission is not to get rid of stupid but to make them try.
Sorry, no. I disagree.
You can't help stupid, it's wasted effort. I'd much rather use that time & effort on people who show (if only a sliver) of promise. It's kinda like the Budget, people have this silly idea that it's a bottomless pit where if you take something from it it doesn't affect anything at all, it does.
Same here, effort & time isn't infinite, people helping idiots in whatever way and CCP themselves can't keep pouring effort into it. If you try and somewhat succeed then not far down the line you will have to put in more effort to keep them playing by (gasp) dumbing down the game more and adapting more to their mediocrity.
I'll happily pour in hours of effort, chatting, explaining, making videos and even having people tag along IF that person shows some sort of promise. Be it because he asks questions that showcase an inquisitive mind or because he did something that is a result of the will to put in effort and try stuff outside their comfort zone, those are the sort of newbies we should help. If I or anyone else also has to pour their effort in to the onslaught of clowns then there's no time or energy left to help the folks who would actually benefit from it and who we, in return, would benefit from as well.
Darwinism, right from the start. Not everyone is a winner. |
Ria Nieyli
37128
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:02:15 -
[166] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Stupid people have stupid opinions based on their stupid activities within EVE. Stupid people might read them and decide to not bother. Smarter people will investigate further an/or recognise whine "reviews" made by stupids.
I don't see a problem. Your mission is not to get rid of stupid but to make them try. Sorry, no. I disagree. You can't help stupid, it's wasted effort. I'd much rather use that time & effort on people who show (if only a sliver) of promise. It's kinda like the Budget, people have this silly idea that it's a bottomless pit where if you take something from it it doesn't affect anything at all, it does. Same here, effort & time isn't infinite, people helping idiots in whatever way and CCP themselves can't keep pouring effort into it. If you try and somewhat succeed then not far down the line you will have to put in more effort to keep them playing by (gasp) dumbing down the game more and adapting more to their mediocrity. I'll happily pour in hours of effort, chatting, explaining, making videos and even having people tag along IF that person shows some sort of promise. Be it because he asks questions that showcase an inquisitive mind or because he did something that is a result of the will to put in effort and try stuff outside their comfort zone, those are the sort of newbies we should help. If I or anyone else also has to pour their effort in to the onslaught of clowns then there's no time or energy left to help the folks who would actually benefit from it and who we, in return, would benefit from as well. Darwinism, right from the start. Not everyone is a winner.
Then again most people don't even try being remotely competent. I mean, the overbearing advice is to buy a PLEX then go and welp the ships you get through it. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28549
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:05:46 -
[167] - Quote
This has nothing to do with CCP, though. It's western societies in general that are degrading.
We can, though, through reason and common sense explain CCP what is wrong. The issue is though that the degenerates will argue with each other ... ... about things they don't even really understand ... ... killing it off.
That's also why I love EVE. There is no state that protects these people from me ... ... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.
But not today, spaghetti.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28564
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:07:44 -
[168] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Solecist Project wrote:And don't forget that highsec needs to be safe space for the new players.
And HoleySheet. Don't forget HolySheet! He reminds me a lot of myself sometimes, when I still was the resident outlaw of Hek in 2012. I prefer him ten times more than a single carebear. :)
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28564
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:11:00 -
[169] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining. Well ... what do we do to remove the garbage? We need to make an effort that CCP bans people who do crap like this.
Banning everyone who says people should go mining would be a great start. And I'd ban CCP for making people go mining in the first place.
Okay, I've spammed enough.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1983
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:19:10 -
[170] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining.
Day 1 it is. Get a Venture for free and suck on rocks, easily the best income for a complete newbie. A result of the "lets cuddle the non-efforts" approach CCP had with that ship (and all the other mining ships) and it's not very difficult to make several mil isk/h in that thing right from the start. It's too good. |
|
Ria Nieyli
37141
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:19:52 -
[171] - Quote
Yes, ban all miners because sandbox doesn't real |
blue dehazon
Vega Farscape
31
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:26:11 -
[172] - Quote
I have to agree to the fact that ther is a large amount of sensorship on this forum if moderaters dont like it,they rather klose a post then in sted of taking the trollers,if they taking action against people that repetedly trolling in any post, then the forum can function a lott better-perma accont ban from forum shud be used a lott more. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28570
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 17:41:43 -
[173] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Yes, ban all miners because sandbox doesn't real Hey, unlike most people in this thread Incan afford to be unreasonable and extremist sometimes. :P
And the irony from the post above is hilarious. :D
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Vertinox
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 18:26:43 -
[174] - Quote
I think the problem is that the forums bring out the negativity in people.
I think EVE would succeed better not if CCP changed the game, but if the player base changed its negative attitude.
Everyone puts down the opposing sides viewpoint and calls each other idiots.
If people would become better persons and respect others even though they disagree.
Maybe it's just the forums, but in game people seem nicer.
Or maybe channels are self regulating.
I mean it's fine to gank people but if it appears the victim is mad then remain calm and explain to him why their fit wasn't optimal.
Just insulting him does nothing but hurt the game community.
Hence bad reviews on Steam. |
Filthy Infidel
Californian CottonPickers Band of Boogers
14
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 22:04:21 -
[175] - Quote
Vertinox wrote: I think EVE would succeed better not if CCP changed the game, but if the player base changed its negative attitude.
Much of the negativity towards EVE from players within the game, is based upon the lack of change, wrong changes and the lack of reinvention.
Too be able to change the playerbase negativity, EVE needs to come With some changes.....
EVE is like a minmatar ship... old, rusty, patch together With ductape and bad Welding... and coverd up With some Nice Paint. The ship still flies... but it leaves a trail of parts, rust and discontent With some of the playerbase.
To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, EVE should contemplate about making EVE 2.0 and steal some good ideas from the other games..... |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1042
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 22:53:38 -
[176] - Quote
Well .... The are right in same way. Let be honest here the game is boring for the 3/4 of your playing time. And sometimes it take a job in real life to get things done in eve. People do not have the time anymore to get all those things done. People want the arcade style back. Well it seems that way. Fast gameplay easy gameplay and for the most of there times the wants gems to faster upgrades. Or pay every year fifa games or cod for 60 bucks. Or games that you can level 10 levels to continue your adventure. We are living and playing in this area. I hope we can manage to stay alive and going to the next fase of gaming. People do not have patience and developers know that see clans of fate or heroes or whatever the calling mobile game, games.
Those developers are rich know. And CCP knows that. So the are trying to change the assets of the game. Making the game easy for the most part. Trying to get rid of those hardcore stuff. That keeps your mind blowing to figure it out on your own. So we are facing the same problem. CCP needs money and there are a company so to earn money you have 2 things. Make it simple and more fast past and let players buy plex and SP (sp is not confirm yet, but the already thinking of that). So this will speed things up (allot) if you have the money and not the patience sins i already confirm that people do not have that kind of patience anymore the will do that.
Or stay at this level and slowly dieing to the end of eve online. You know this, and every one knows this. We are the last players that have that kind of dedicated for eve online. And we are losing this unless we can do something about that. I just do not know how to beat those new kind of players.
Or we have option 3 we do what players want. Release the god damn WiS update and make it more compiling for new players to learn the game with the avatar game style and slowing going to space.
Or we do nothing and see what we get. The listen to there players want more space ships sure for the hardcore players but we do not get many new players we are still losing players.
|
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
395
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 23:37:31 -
[177] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:Vertinox wrote: I think EVE would succeed better not if CCP changed the game, but if the player base changed its negative attitude.
Much of the negativity towards EVE from players within the game, is based upon the lack of change, wrong changes and the lack of reinvention. Too be able to change the playerbase negativity, EVE needs to come With some changes..... EVE is like a minmatar ship... old, rusty, patch together With ductape and bad Welding... and coverd up With some Nice Paint. The ship still flies... but it leaves a trail of parts, rust and discontent With some of the playerbase. To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, EVE should contemplate about making EVE 2.0 and steal some good ideas from the other games.....
I prefer to think of eve as the emperors flagship. Golden magnificent and leaving lesser ships floundering in its wake.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Filthy Infidel
Californian CottonPickers Band of Boogers
14
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 23:49:39 -
[178] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:Vertinox wrote: I think EVE would succeed better not if CCP changed the game, but if the player base changed its negative attitude.
Much of the negativity towards EVE from players within the game, is based upon the lack of change, wrong changes and the lack of reinvention. Too be able to change the playerbase negativity, EVE needs to come With some changes..... EVE is like a minmatar ship... old, rusty, patch together With ductape and bad Welding... and coverd up With some Nice Paint. The ship still flies... but it leaves a trail of parts, rust and discontent With some of the playerbase. To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, EVE should contemplate about making EVE 2.0 and steal some good ideas from the other games..... I prefer to think of eve as the emperors flagship. Golden magnificent and leaving lesser ships floundering in its wake.
as said, coverd in Nice Paint ;D
Happy Christmas |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7127
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 23:56:28 -
[179] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote: To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...
Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9701
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 00:12:56 -
[180] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote: To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...
Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for. I underlined the only provable item in that long winded paragraph of conjecture and misinformation.
And Merry Christmas Remiel and Filthy Infidel!
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7128
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 00:33:39 -
[181] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote: To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...
Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for. I underlined the only provable item in that long winded paragraph of conjecture and misinformation. And Merry Christmas Remiel and Filthy Infidel! Mr Epeen
I made a correlation. I did not link it to causation. And it's very easy to prove the differences between star citizen and EVE Online as I described them, and you have to try very hard to ignore them to pretend they are unprovable. So once more, your rhetoric is as empty as the little mind that produced it.
Mr Pollard
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1988
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 00:42:07 -
[182] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote: To follow up With the released and upcomming games in the same genre, ...
Which is precisely zero. Are you talking about star citizen? Nope, sorry, not the same genre. EVE is not a space combat sim, and SC is not a single-shard entirely player-driven perpetual sandbox. EVE is unique. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you'll understand why EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
Exactly. This is so easy to understand yet so many people don't seem to realise it and for some reason it can't be explained to them either. Probably because they only look at the surface and don't actually think it through. ED and SC are NOT competitors of EVE at all, they will get some customers from EVE to switch but that is not the same thing because those customers never really were EVE players.
|
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
95
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 00:56:01 -
[183] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: That's also why I love EVE. There is no state that protects these people from me ... ... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.
You get dafter
|
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
95
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 01:16:23 -
[184] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline
I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers
But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc
Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42261
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 01:20:29 -
[185] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great Well, in Remiel's defence, he didn't say it did appeal to a wider audience, just that it has been trying.
I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say given all CCP have said over the last couple of years. They have definitely been trying to appeal to a wider group, at least in terms of gaining long term subscriptions rather than try and don't buy.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7129
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 01:30:40 -
[186] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline
You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it.
Quote:I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers
It's always been a niche game, right from the word go. There will only ever be a minority of people that can 1. handle it to begin with, and 2. grasp the concept of a single-shard player-driven sandbox to a degree that will keep them interested. The vast majority of people want to be fed content, they don't want to make it. Which is why you can number all your favourite actors and musicians on your hands (and maybe your feet, but there won't be many when compared to the greater population). Content creators are, generally, less numerous than content consumers. This is a demonstrable fact.
The thing is, it's survived as a niche game for longer than WoW has even existed, and WoW is declining much more rapidly than EVE Online in terms of percentages.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28632
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 02:14:32 -
[187] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Solecist Project wrote: That's also why I love EVE. There is no state that protects these people from me ... ... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.
You get dafter You lack the knowledge and understanding to make such a calo about me.
Just look at your own words.
You don't understand that the attempts to widen the audience were counter productive ... ... because the broad mass of people does not want to play a niche game!
Anyhow, let me thank you for the opportunity, even though you don't understand anyway. :)
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28632
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 02:18:31 -
[188] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - We know what it means.
Why don't you?
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
95
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 02:33:30 -
[189] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great Well, in Remiel's defence, he didn't say it did appeal to a wider audience, just that it has been trying. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say given all CCP have said over the last couple of years. They have definitely been trying to appeal to a wider group, at least in terms of gaining long term subscriptions rather than try and don't buy.
I agree, they are in a difficult position
They have created a game that requires a certain level of commitment and the market has changed, toward games that don't... and seek to fleece you early on because there is nothing to the mid and late game.... and arguably nothing in the game at all... and it is prizes for all.... |
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
95
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 02:34:16 -
[190] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Paul Pohl wrote:Solecist Project wrote: That's also why I love EVE. There is no state that protects these people from me ... ... but the game has bad mechanics that stand in the way of natural selection.
You get dafter You lack the knowledge and understanding to make such a calo about me. Just look at your own words. You don't understand that the attempts to widen the audience were counter productive ... ... because the broad mass of people does not want to play a niche game! Anyhow, let me thank you for the opportunity, even though you don't understand anyway. :)
And hence you get dafter
|
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Bianca Niam
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 02:50:32 -
[191] - Quote
Steam users are lol. |
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
96
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 03:14:06 -
[192] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.
I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong...
Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you
Is this really the demographics?
I don't think so...
CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc
None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games.... |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1990
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 03:47:38 -
[193] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.
I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong... Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you Is this really the demographics? I don't think so... CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games....
I did some background checks because it's always entertaining to figure out someone's agenda.
This is you This is your obvious other character this is an alt in your corp who lost a rather funky pod to someone who posts in this thread
It all makes sense now, your stance and your participation in this thread. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4202
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 03:53:54 -
[194] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline
I think you need to rethink that. The statement was that changes have been made to EVE to try to appeal to a wider audience. He did not write that it does appeal to a wider audience.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
556
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 04:00:49 -
[195] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote: Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - implementing the lore into the game would take this process further - creating a living, changeable, coherent,universe would be great
You mean turn 'high-sec' into 'completely safe-sec' don't you
edit: Oh Gregor, I just investigated your post. teehee, did I do that *innocent look*
Guess my guess about his motives was correct. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7134
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 04:03:27 -
[196] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: You know that old saying, you can't please everyone? Well, it's not true. If you focus on a specific demographic, you can actually please everyone in it. And as demographics grow with new people, so too do the people you can please. Have you seen the movie Event Horizon? Most people don't like it, but the few who do absolutely adore it. When you go for mass appeal, lots of people are gonna like it, but not to the same degree that a cult following will LOVE AND ADORE FOREVER Firefly for example. EVE Online will live in the memories of its fanbase for at least a lifetime after the servers go down. WoW and its iterations are very easy to forget. Which is why EVE has a place in an art gallery, and WoW does not.
I'd suggest this is where Eve has gone wrong... Yeah fine... focus on demographics.... and to pick up on another forum thread - if you were the last person in Eve what would you do? The answer is simple.... you would fight it out with your alts.... forgetting that the Jita market alt 0.01ing you is in fact you Is this really the demographics? I don't think so... CCP have a beautifully realized graphical universe, they have a interesting variation of playstyles and game content, they have devs who are committed to the game etc None of this is niche... in fact it is precisely the reason people play video games....
Well that was a whole lot of meaningless hyperbole. Care to actually make a coherent point that shows a legitimate understanding of the concept of demographics?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9702
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 04:04:48 -
[197] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:You mean turn 'high-sec' into 'completely safe-sec' don't you Sov null already has the 'completely safe-sec' thing covered.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13220
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 04:53:04 -
[198] - Quote
Paul Pohl wrote:
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline
This is not true. What CCP did was dampen down some of the things that appealed to it's original niche crowd in hopes of getting more mainstream customers. Personally, I don't think I would stay in EVE if I'd started after around 2011 as opposed to before, knowing myself I believe I would have had a feeling of "this game is insulting my intelligence" after the 1st few hours of pop ups telling me what not to do. When I started in 2007 EVE threw me into the water and said "swim or die" (and the guy who brought me into the game did the same thing, said it was the best way to learn).
It's like a steak house thinking it needs vegan customers so they start offering tofu based dishes. But the vegans don't come because they don't want to consume anything in a place where meat is consumed, meanwhile the steak house is getting fewer of it's original customers because all that making tofu stuff means worse steak.
Obviously the steak house should have stuck to making steak and finding more carnivores lol.
Quote: But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc
IMO sticking to this would have been the best way.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9702
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 05:04:09 -
[199] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:...meanwhile the steak house is getting fewer of it's original customers because all that making tofu stuff means worse steak. What?
Tofu cooties in the kitchen waft into the air and somehow contaminate the steak?
Anyway, Merry Christmas, Jenn.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28662
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:02:54 -
[200] - Quote
You know who he reminds me of?
Lucas.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28662
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:05:05 -
[201] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Paul Pohl wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: EVE survived and grew for more than 10 years in a much more 'broken' state than it's in now, not to mention much harder to get into than it is now. It's only started to decline as it started to try to appeal to a wider audience instead of the niche market it's intended for.
That's an oxymoron - if it was appealing to a wider audience it wouldn't be in decline I'd also questionable if Eve is a 'niche game' at all - or if this is marketing spin for a decline in numbers But I agree it would be better if the game were to return to it's roots, when getting podded meant losing skill-points, ISK was harder to come by, etc Getting rid of the CSM - and it's vested interests - would be a start - getting CCP to actually have the confidence to define what high/low/null sec actually means would be progress - We know what it means. Why don't you? Ofc no answer. Time to get this shithole locked.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4428
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:29:37 -
[202] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining.
It is all about questions and answers.
Question: what is the specialization faster to master for a single player? Answer: Mining.
It haves the shortest skillqueues and the cheaper top ships. Of course it is a terrible advice for anyone who is not a miner... But it is a good advice for a player who doesn't knows the game, doesn't knows anybody in the game and is playing alone.
So mining is the faster and easiest big money for a noob... but is not a career for everybody and is not a career that leads to long tenures and high retention unless the player is a miner at heart.
Of course, there's real big moeny elsewhere. Mining is peanuts compared to nullsec PvE or highsec incursions. But those are activities that require knowing the right someone, which is not the case for a true noob who dons't knwos anybody and can't choose who is he going to meet and know.
The best advice, of course, would be "know someone and pray that he won't cheat you, that he won't be a loser in his trade, that he will be a good teacher and that you will enjoy whatever he teachs you".
Know someone and he leads you to a safari. Meeec, mistake! You lost EVE! Know someone and he's a double tanker mission runenr. Meeec, mistake! You lost EVE! Know someone and he's RL busy so he can only log in once in a blue moon. Meeec, mistake! You lost EVE! Know someone and he's an a-hole who think you're stupid rather than green. Meeec, mistake! You lost EVE! Know someone and he teachs you to WH but after 3 months you just hate the idea of login in to Anoikis... Meeec, mistake! You lost EVE!
Running blindfold through a forest, avoiding the trees until you reach the exit. That's how you suceed in EVE. And this situation is 100% CCP's doing. EVE is a social game where the best social players are rewarded inmensely (think of Mittens), but as in RL, the game is full of people who don't succeed at socializing. This is where EVE could make a difference by being fun and rewarding even to the socially less apt, since it is just a game. But somehow CCP decided that EVE would only make sense for the social winners and thus the socially inept are delivered a bad gaming experience.
It's not that EVE is better with friends. It's that "with friends" is the ONLY way in which EVE is rewarding.
And this all leads to loners suggesting other loners that mining is the easiest loner money in the game. Which is true but also is horribly wrong.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1994
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:32:46 -
[203] - Quote
I mostly play alone, I don't mine. Your :logic: is, again, completely wrong. QED. |
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
395
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:33:24 -
[204] - Quote
You can play with yourself if you wish but trust me, the more warm bodies, the better.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7137
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:36:28 -
[205] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining. tl;dr You can't make new friends in EVE.
Lies. I made all my friends here.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
774
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:43:31 -
[206] - Quote
dafuq is a "friend?" |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4428
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:51:45 -
[207] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining. tl;dr You can't make new friends in EVE. Lies. I made all my friends here.
I wonder what have you read...?
Starting with a specific case, I explained that EVE is a poor game unless you meet the right people and that hurts retention since meeting the right people depends on random and social skills.
I never said that you can't make friends in EVE.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7137
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 09:53:43 -
[208] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Unfortunately, a lot of the baseline EVE advice offered to new players by the community is backwards and counterproductive. It's just grossly unoptimised and people defend it to the point of hostility. EVE isn't exactly outlandish in concept if you have previous gaming experience. It's not exactly the most hardcore or skill intensive game either.
Rookie chat is complete garbage, yes. Apparently the best isk is in mining. tl;dr You can't make new friends in EVE. Lies. I made all my friends here. I wonder what have you read...? Starting with a specific case, I explained that EVE is a poor game unless you meet the right people and that hurts retention since meeting the right people depends on random and social skills. I never said that you can't make friends in EVE.
You did talk about finding them as if at the first sign of meeting someone 'undesirable' they're gonna quit. And yet here I am, despite falling for the goon's recruitment scam and losing 500mil in my early days. Again, this comes back to the only people who quit are the ones who were always going to, regardless of who they meet. The ones with a genuine interest in the game are the ones who stick around. They're the only ones this game needs to cater to, because they're the ones paying subscriptions. See, we were all new once, we weren't always vets you know. We all have to go through the same stuff. And here we are. Are we the truly last group of people to take a genuinely interest in this game? I'm gonna say it loud and proud: if we are, then we SHOULD let it die. I'd rather it die than become something it was never meant to be.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4429
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 10:25:29 -
[209] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I wonder what have you read...? Starting with a specific case, I explained that EVE is a poor game unless you meet the right people and that hurts retention since meeting the right people depends on random and social skills. I never said that you can't make friends in EVE. You did talk about finding them as if at the first sign of meeting someone 'undesirable' they're gonna quit. And yet here I am, despite falling for the goon's recruitment scam and losing 500mil in my early days. Again, this comes back to the only people who quit are the ones who were always going to, regardless of who they meet. The ones with a genuine interest in the game are the ones who stick around. They're the only ones this game needs to cater to, because they're the ones paying subscriptions. See, we were all new once, we weren't always vets you know. We all have to go through the same stuff. And here we are. Are we the truly last group of people to take a genuinely interest in this game? I'm gonna say it loud and proud: if we are, then we SHOULD let it die. I'd rather it die than become something it was never meant to be.
I have 3 active accounts in this moment and started playing in 2008. I think I have a genuine interest in the game, but that interest is completely different than yours. I think that some things that would be good for me would be good for the game, too. I never talk about the stuff that would be good for me but not for the game. It makes no point to ask CCP to shoot their feet or ask them the impossible.
Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me...
...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1996
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 11:13:01 -
[210] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I never talk about the stuff that would be good for me but not for the game.
lol
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|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28663
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 11:14:43 -
[211] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I never talk about the stuff that would be good for me but not for the game. lol double-lol
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7137
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 11:16:07 -
[212] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I wonder what have you read...? Starting with a specific case, I explained that EVE is a poor game unless you meet the right people and that hurts retention since meeting the right people depends on random and social skills. I never said that you can't make friends in EVE. You did talk about finding them as if at the first sign of meeting someone 'undesirable' they're gonna quit. And yet here I am, despite falling for the goon's recruitment scam and losing 500mil in my early days. Again, this comes back to the only people who quit are the ones who were always going to, regardless of who they meet. The ones with a genuine interest in the game are the ones who stick around. They're the only ones this game needs to cater to, because they're the ones paying subscriptions. See, we were all new once, we weren't always vets you know. We all have to go through the same stuff. And here we are. Are we the truly last group of people to take a genuinely interest in this game? I'm gonna say it loud and proud: if we are, then we SHOULD let it die. I'd rather it die than become something it was never meant to be. I have 3 active accounts in this moment and started playing in 2008. I think I have a genuine interest in the game, but that interest is completely different than yours. I think that some things that would be good for me would be good for the game, too. I never talk about the stuff that would be good for me but not for the game. It makes no point to ask CCP to shoot their feet or ask them the impossible. Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun.
I didn't ever suggest you didn't have a genuine interest in this game. But here's the thing - what's good for you isn't always what's good for the game. I would love to be able to have the option to jump in a non-capsule version of one of our ships, take to the bridge, hire a crew, and go bareback, completely podless. I could also argue that the lore supports this with the tech used for Dust troopers - complete podless recloning. I don't, however, think it would be good for the game as a whole, though, because it would bloat the client with little more than a gimmick feature.
Additionally, when you suggest changes to the game that might take away from existing features that people enjoy, or changes that alter the nature and conditions by which EVE exists, you are going to be criticised. People are listening to you, very carefully. Then they're criticising you because they don't like it. You should be prepared for the prior to submitting your ideas to public opinion to begin with.
You're right, CCP loses nothing reading what you have to say. The lose nothing by ignoring you, either.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28663
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 11:21:17 -
[213] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun. I'm sure they totally listen to cowards, who hide behind their screen, can't back up their behaviour ingame and have no clue about what the **** they are talking about.
Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh.
And you're not unusual.
You are *typical* like the rest of your "kind" of people who are nothing but cowards hiding behind the log-in.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7137
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 11:21:51 -
[214] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I never talk about the stuff that would be good for me but not for the game. lol
Yeah, as for this little gem, I think your double-standards are beginning to show. You constantly tell us to read your ideas when we clearly do, but when we tell you why they're bad for the game, you seem to choose not to pay much attention. YOU need to start listening to other people and STOP expecting to be listened to. If you expect to be a part of EVE's progress, that means working with other people and listening to what they want, not just trying to convince people of what YOU want. Then, you find a compromise, start a dialectic, and come to an agreement.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28672
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 14:54:26 -
[215] - Quote
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4431
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 16:19:27 -
[216] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun. I'm sure they totally listen to cowards, who hide behind their screen, can't back up their behaviour ingame and have no clue about what the **** they are talking about. Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. And you're not unusual. You are *typical* like the rest of your "kind" of people who are nothing but cowards hiding behind the log-in.
You should not be throwing stones from a glass house.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Jon Essler
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 16:47:27 -
[217] - Quote
Filthy Infidel wrote:Or the forumtrolls will get it closed With their ranting since they dont agree.
Yep. Just three posts in to the thread, and apparently people leaving negative reviews are stupid because they're doing 'stupid things' in EVE
One thing that's funny about many EVE players is how much it bothers them when people criticise EVE. "They're doing it wrong" "They're stupid" "They're weak (lol?)" etc.
I like EVE. Sometimes I don't. When someone says EVE is boring, I don't give them a lecture about how they're doing it wrong. I just accept they don't like it and leave it at that.
Tl;dr: Internet spaceship nerds are even touchier than internet wizard nerds. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28676
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 17:10:07 -
[218] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun. I'm sure they totally listen to cowards, who hide behind their screen, can't back up their behaviour ingame and have no clue about what the **** they are talking about. Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. And you're not unusual. You are *typical* like the rest of your "kind" of people who are nothing but cowards hiding behind the log-in. You should not be throwing stones from a glass house.
I'm not the one who should be afraid of undocking, you silly little carebear. :)
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2002
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 18:22:23 -
[219] - Quote
Jon Essler wrote:Filthy Infidel wrote:Or the forumtrolls will get it closed With their ranting since they dont agree. Yep. Just three posts in to the thread, and apparently people leaving negative reviews are stupid because they're doing 'stupid things' in EVE One thing that's funny about many EVE players is how much it bothers them when people criticise EVE. "They're doing it wrong" "They're stupid" "They're weak (lol?)" etc. I like EVE. Sometimes I don't. When someone says EVE is boring, I don't give them a lecture about how they're doing it wrong. I just accept they don't like it and leave it at that. Tl;dr: Internet spaceship nerds are even touchier than internet wizard nerds.
Fun fact, I criticize EVE so much I'm sure all the devs hate my guts (if they haven't blocked me already) so your assumptions and softie approach is mistaken.
There's a difference between "nope, not my game for these well presented reasons" and "I R teh stoopid, that game sucks lolz" and when you look them up they lost 3 retrievers in low sec fitted with hull reppers or some other nonsense scenario, after having played for 5 months.
Guess which "reviews" you see most of on steam, go check them, draw a conclusion and state your findings here. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17263
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 19:43:32 -
[220] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun. I'm sure they totally listen to cowards, who hide behind their screen, can't back up their behaviour ingame and have no clue about what the **** they are talking about. Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. And you're not unusual. You are *typical* like the rest of your "kind" of people who are nothing but cowards hiding behind the log-in. You should not be throwing stones from a glass house.
Hard words from someone who has unsubbed forever 3 times now, is it? 4?
Yet here you still are.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4432
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 21:37:15 -
[221] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Yet I think that, being a very odd case of a long term player, at least CCP loses nothing to listen to my voice. Insight arises from being confronted to the unusual. In many senses, I can't help being unusual. If I can exploit that and help something I care about, then the better to me... ...and doesn't hurts how the process itself is fun. I'm sure they totally listen to cowards, who hide behind their screen, can't back up their behaviour ingame and have no clue about what the **** they are talking about. Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh. And you're not unusual. You are *typical* like the rest of your "kind" of people who are nothing but cowards hiding behind the log-in. You should not be throwing stones from a glass house. Hard words from someone who has unsubbed forever 3 times now, is it? 4? Yet here you still are.
Actually I've only unsubbed "forever" once. I also have taken three breaks, one total and two with my main while keeping alts subscribed.
As I said, I'll be here until I find something better or EVE goes down the sink. I don't dare to bet on any of both things.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
LLeugh
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
21
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 22:49:09 -
[222] - Quote
The internet is full of disinformation about eve. I found those reviews to be both accurate and funny. Everyone knows people get their spy alts cheap on steam sales
so the trolls hit steam when they cant find kills
> making people cry in local since 2007
> http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=LLeugh
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
87
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 23:37:47 -
[223] - Quote
This thread has run its course, so I will close it to prevent further degradation.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Pix Severus
Mew Age Outpaws
1524
|
Posted - 2015.12.26 00:26:47 -
[224] - Quote
In conclusion, we should all leave an accurate review for EVE on Steam.
My lord.
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