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biz Antollare
eXceed Inc.
67
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 17:49:57 -
[1] - Quote
I say we let the refit mechanic stay as is and see how the upcoming changes effect the game first. With cap RR being restricted to being in triage only (no more slow cats) and the new addition of the force aux caps i think the refit mechanic should be left alone.
I personally enjoy refitting in combat and think it adds a level of complication to the game. We continue to play EVE because we like how complicated it is. not being a simple F1 MMO.
KEEP THE REFITTING MECHANIC AS IS
Signed. |
CivilWars
Rolled Out Shadow Cartel
302
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:00:38 -
[2] - Quote
Seconded.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:
Jack Miton liked your forum post:
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Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
184
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:04:37 -
[3] - Quote
Suddenly Carebears support this petition! |
VirusMD
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
10
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:05:02 -
[4] - Quote
Stop dumbing down Eve CCP, This is not WoW! Please leave the refitting mechanics alone! |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1083
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:11:26 -
[5] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:Seconded.
Too infinity and beyond
I'm right behind you
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Lord Hamburger
Suddenly Carebears
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:19:10 -
[6] - Quote
Signed. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2182
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:29:24 -
[7] - Quote
I generally support gradual changes in this regard, but it might be less painful to just pull off the bandaid.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:42:27 -
[8] - Quote
-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. |
biz Antollare
eXceed Inc.
71
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:48:17 -
[9] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them.
this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post . |
Tajic Kaundur
Dropbears Anonymous
67
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:51:20 -
[10] - Quote
Wormhole life hinges on this ability.
Capital fights necessitate your triage refitting on the fly. Running sites in a Marauder also requires the ability to swap fits every so often. Dreadnaught gameplay would just turn into "hit siege, F1 20 seconds later" with absolutely no nuance.
I get that it's overpowered for Mach fleets, and that's fine. Either buff the counter to Machs (battleships, which have needed buffs since I started playing over two years ago), or make it so you can refit while in "you're on your own mode" (siege, triage, bastion). Yeah, it's also overpowered for super fleets, but supers are eating nerfs as part of the cap rebalance, that's already addressed.
But removing it when you're in "you're on your own mode" is absolutely absurd. It removes a lot of the nuance of that gameplay, and instead just turns into even more mindless F1 mashing. |
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:56:33 -
[11] - Quote
I'd like to see it stay. Losing it entirely would be a real shame, I'd accept a comprimise however - perhaps some delay i switching mods so it wasn't as powerful as it currently is whilst still being there as a gameplay option. |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 18:59:18 -
[12] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post . This was psot the forums, its an place to debate it, talk about, i dont support it ether, will add more game play, due to having disengage for the period, it means people have to fit there ships better, have the rest of the fleet to pick the slack for an minute. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2479
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:13:49 -
[13] - Quote
Tajic Kaundur wrote:Wormhole life hinges on this ability.
Capital fights necessitate your triage refitting on the fly. Running sites in a Marauder also requires the ability to swap fits every so often. Dreadnaught gameplay would just turn into "hit siege, F1 20 seconds later" with absolutely no nuance.
I get that it's overpowered for Mach fleets, and that's fine. Either buff the counter to Machs (battleships, which have needed buffs since I started playing over two years ago), or make it so you can refit while in "you're on your own mode" (siege, triage, bastion). Yeah, it's also overpowered for super fleets, but supers are eating nerfs as part of the cap rebalance, that's already addressed.
But removing it when you're in "you're on your own mode" is absolutely absurd. It removes a lot of the nuance of that gameplay, and instead just turns into even more mindless F1 mashing.
"On your own mode" will now be about being on your own and not about this and whatever refitting service is withing range. A true "on your own" if you will. |
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1158
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:17:39 -
[14] - Quote
This change doesn't really hinder the masses of caps in Nullsec. What this change affects more than any others, is small capital fights and fights in Wormhole space, where refitting your capital is a necessity due to the limited natures of the fights.
See this recent video of LZHK vs SSC to elaborate on what I am saying.
Not to mention the Nestor would be 100% useless in PvP with this change.
This change will shaft smaller capital brawls where refits are necessary and not to mention, kind of fun.
All CCP have to do is read through this reddit thread.
Most ships without the refit option will be dead within the 60 seconds it would take to de aggro, if they're smaller than a capital.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Gremk
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
18
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:18:01 -
[15] - Quote
Agreed. This content adds a completely different element to even subcap fights without carrier support via nestors. It is a pretty niche role in the game and it'd be pretty stupid to remove by adding a 60 second timer. |
Lanx Original
HC - Metazoa Suidae The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:20:16 -
[16] - Quote
I too would like to see the refitting kept either untouched or largely similar to what it is now.
I Have never yet been able to make use of it, but it was something I was looking forward to. With the removal of spider tank carriers that also serve as dps, I don't expect caps will need such a heavy nerf. I also thought refitting was a very nice way for a weaker group to outplay a stronger one.
Not opposed to change, just don't expect to like this one. |
Azis Troyanov
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:20:33 -
[17] - Quote
+1
Azis
|
Leviathan Tank
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:25:17 -
[18] - Quote
I agree, stop dumbing down this game.
thanks. |
Solo Trekario
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:26:36 -
[19] - Quote
+1 (Keep Refitting as-is)
This ability adds a level if interactivity to the game. Rather than just sitting in fleets and locking a broadcast and pressing F1, people are moved to do more. Refitting on the fly to adapt to the situation, takes a bit more skill, and more interaction within the game. |
Haidere
Evolution Northern Coalition.
11
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:31:36 -
[20] - Quote
*signed* There is no foreseeable need to change the refitting mechanic. Make the cap changes first and then we will see if refitting is being abused.
Why make the game even more like World of Warcraft: Spaceships Edition? |
|
BIGthump
Rolled Out Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:31:52 -
[21] - Quote
Signed!
Removal of a tactic from this game that sorely needs things to keep it interesting is an absolutely abysmal idea. |
Tajic Kaundur
Dropbears Anonymous
68
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:34:49 -
[22] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Tajic Kaundur wrote:Wormhole life hinges on this ability.
Capital fights necessitate your triage refitting on the fly. Running sites in a Marauder also requires the ability to swap fits every so often. Dreadnaught gameplay would just turn into "hit siege, F1 20 seconds later" with absolutely no nuance.
I get that it's overpowered for Mach fleets, and that's fine. Either buff the counter to Machs (battleships, which have needed buffs since I started playing over two years ago), or make it so you can refit while in "you're on your own mode" (siege, triage, bastion). Yeah, it's also overpowered for super fleets, but supers are eating nerfs as part of the cap rebalance, that's already addressed.
But removing it when you're in "you're on your own mode" is absolutely absurd. It removes a lot of the nuance of that gameplay, and instead just turns into even more mindless F1 mashing. "On your own mode" will now be about being on your own and not about this and whatever refitting service is withing range. A true "on your own" if you will.
I drop my own depot, y'know. If you kill that I'm pretty much just dead in the water.
If you want to remove my refit ability, you kill my depot.
You have counterplay to this if it's that big of an issue for you. Stop being bad. |
Kagi Anzomi
CK-0FF Phoebe Freeport Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:35:02 -
[23] - Quote
Signed. The change may fix a problem or two, but at what cost? Such a change would cause far more problems than it would fix, while removing variety and options from the game. |
Rhett Thurgood
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Psychotic Tendencies.
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:39:21 -
[24] - Quote
+1
Engaging mechanic that allows everyone a chance to rapidly change the dynamics of a fight. |
5pitf1re
Black Omega Security The OSS
87
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:42:07 -
[25] - Quote
As a member of the capital focus group I support this petition. |
Estelie Heyan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:46:10 -
[26] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:KEEP THE REFITTING MECHANIC AS IS
nah
|
Onamata Poeia
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:51:27 -
[27] - Quote
Signed.
Would be a travesty, and a further step in the direction of the n+1 meta, to see this mechanic go. |
SHADOWWALKER shadows
The Unforgiving. The Initiative.
12
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:52:57 -
[28] - Quote
Signed, keep refitting as it is ccp |
John Selth
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:54:36 -
[29] - Quote
Signed
Refitting at a moments notice is one of the last few "player skills" left in this game. Especially for triage pilots. While I know triage will be replaced, I can only assume that similar fitting mechanics will follow over to the FAX machine. Regardless, I have only met a handful of legendary triage pilots who use the ability to refit to not only manage the capacitor and reps of the fleet but also of their own ship against great odds. They do this while being the only form of reps in the entire fleet. Game play lik this should be rewarded and expanded on, not taken away and nerfed. |
Anthar Thebess
1402
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Against. This brings broken mechanic, and allow you to adjust your fitting to current situation on grid. People use carriers very often and whole fleet can refit from them.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
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Act-Mack PVT
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 19:58:39 -
[31] - Quote
+1 Signed
The devs need to realize how dumb these new mechanics are and they shouldn't take out age old mechanics that helped make this game great. |
Niraia
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
382
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:00:51 -
[32] - Quote
*signature* GÖÑ
GÖÑ
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Snaps Mcgee
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Psychotic Tendencies.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:03:33 -
[33] - Quote
Signed. |
AmunRa Sky
Black Spot on Parchment
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:05:38 -
[34] - Quote
Signed, it would contribute nothing to the game and would hinder capitals even more than they already are. |
Mclaren231
The Merit Talon Equity Research Group
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:15:10 -
[35] - Quote
signed |
Ria Nieyli
37929
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Signed.
Patching gameplay out of the game is never good. |
Apollo Northman
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:21:43 -
[37] - Quote
Aye, let's wait for the cap changes. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
1192
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:24:26 -
[38] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post .
Says this to someone against the petition.
Says nothing to those expressing opinions in support of petition.
For this reason alone, I have to say I do not support the petition, despite not support apparently not being an option. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
611
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote: it adds a level of complication to the game.
Except it doesn't. Refitting in combat is easymode plus it doesn't make any sense.
I am looking forward to see it being changed in Citadel.
|
Edna Gallente
Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:37:54 -
[40] - Quote
Signed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTg
High skill ceilings are a good thing. |
|
Nikolai Agnon
Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary
64
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:39:51 -
[41] - Quote
+1 on keeping in-combat refitting. Nestors are cool and so are marauders. |
Tineoidea Asanari
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
121
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Except it doesn't. Refitting in combat is easymode
lol.
Keep the 60 seconds idea for normal ships, but give modules like triage, bastion and siege a removal of that timer restriction to refitting. There is no reason to punish ships that are not capable of receiving RR and have long cycle times that hard. |
Cotty Vance
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:45:07 -
[43] - Quote
+1 please keep for initial changes to see what happens. |
Requiescat
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
204
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:45:46 -
[44] - Quote
signed
and not for small gang capital warfare, which i agree is a concern, but i have a different point to make. lots of people whine about machariels being able to refit from autocannons to artillery, which i concede is very strong and a relatively unique ability, but saying it's bad for "the health of the game" is shockingly disingenuous; you don't want it to be nerfed for the health of the game, you want it nerfed so that you don't have to do it or fight against it.
there are obvious counters to "swiss army" machariels that nobody's pulled the trigger on yet and i am absolutely perplexed as to why that is
i'd also like to point out the irony of all the wow comparisons - you can switch weapons in combat in wow
hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendGÖÑ
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1159
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post . Says this to someone against the petition. Says nothing to those expressing opinions in support of petition. For this reason alone, I have to say I do not support the petition, despite not supporting, apparently, not being an option. Edit.. To be a bit more literal on this. I do not support the petition (thus I support the change) as the current mechanic basically allows a single ship to become more than 3 different ships on the fly. Shield tank, Armor tank, Hull tank, Full DPS, Full logi. If you want a versatile fleet, you should have to bring a versatile fleet, not play "build-a-blocks" during combat.. Guessing you've never lived in a wormhole before, let alone had a wormhole cap fight?
That's okay, I won't hold it against you, but please learn what you are talking about before going on about something... Allow me to elaborate: When you go Bhalls deep into someones hole, you are sometimes closing the hole behind you. There is literally a limited number to the ships you can bring. Around 3 capitals and an assortment of Nestors / T3s / Logi. Whereas when you're jumping into someone home for a fight, whose ever home it is can literally blob the **** out of you with as many pilots and capitals as they have online (or can ping to get online) (it could go as far as the 70 vs 40 like what NoHo had against the goon wormhole corp. For the record, they wrecked our face off in a very good fight!). Refitting during combat allows the fleet jumping the hole, usually outnumbered if its a proper fight, to actually put up a decent fight and potentially win against stronger odds. Removing this while you have a combat timer just means yet more stagnation for bigger, already rare fights, in wormholes.
I agree with the let people give reasons though. If someone supports or does not support, it's fine for them to state why.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Ama Atavuli
Rolled Out Shadow Cartel
85
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:47:32 -
[46] - Quote
signed
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Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
218
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:48:41 -
[47] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:Seconded.
hell yeah, that is PART of the carriers job support
[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
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Whette Fhartz
System lords Collective
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:54:56 -
[48] - Quote
Signed.
Love it like it is currently |
Alex Drakonov
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:01:30 -
[49] - Quote
Signed, don't care about supers tho |
DlCard
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:01:38 -
[50] - Quote
Signed.
My Youtube Channel (PVP Vids)
http://www.youtube.com/user/DCard77
|
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
1192
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:03:58 -
[51] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote: Guessing you've never lived in a wormhole before, let alone had a wormhole cap fight?
That's okay, I won't hold it against you, but please learn what you are talking about before going on about something... Allow me to elaborate: When you go Bhalls deep into someones hole, you are sometimes closing the hole behind you. There is literally a limited number to the ships you can bring. Around 3 capitals and an assortment of Nestors / T3s / Logi. Whereas when you're jumping into someone home for a fight, whose ever home it is can literally blob the **** out of you with as many pilots and capitals as they have online (or can ping to get online) (it could go as far as the 70 vs 40 like what NoHo had against the goon wormhole corp. For the record, they wrecked our face off in a very good fight!). Refitting during combat allows the fleet jumping the hole, usually outnumbered if its a proper fight, to actually put up a decent fight and potentially win against stronger odds. Removing this while you have a combat timer just means yet more stagnation for bigger, already rare fights, in wormholes.
I agree with the let people give reasons though. If someone supports or does not support, it's fine for them to state why.
TBH, this seems more like a reason for changes/additions to WH mechanics over a reason to keep the refit mechanics.
It's basically saying that we should keep a mechanic that basically hinders combats outside of WH space, in order to support combat in WH space.
I feel that if this issue is only relevant for WH space, then maybe something else should be done to make up for the loss in WH space. Something like WH stabilization towers. Mobile structures that aren't too difficult to destroy, but can keep the hole stable as long as there is a tower on both sides of the WH. Towers have a limited life span, but an unlimited amount of mass can travel through during that time. adds a tactical aspect to WH diving. You might get trapped in their WH because the towers went down, or got blown up. You might get overrun and they end up using your towers to invade your WH space.
Point is, you can't keep a mechanic in game that is basically like watching someone play BF4 with an aimbot and wall hack just because it's the only viable option for one niche area of space. Instead, change the mechanic and then create something so that WH space isn't destroyed because of the change, and something limited to WH space so it can't be taken advantage of from outside WH space. |
Semideus Magnatus
Unleashed' Fury Imminent Threat
14
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:07:03 -
[52] - Quote
Keep the Reffiting ! |
Altuanicle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:07:18 -
[53] - Quote
Signed |
General Escobar
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
17
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:20:25 -
[54] - Quote
Do it for the Nestor! |
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1599
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:21:07 -
[55] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: you can't keep a mechanic in game that is basically like watching someone play BF4 with an aimbot and wall hack just because it's the only viable option for one niche area of space. Instead, change the mechanic and then create something so that WH space isn't destroyed because of the change, and something limited to WH space so it can't be taken advantage of from outside WH space.
Everything up until that point was completely batsh-t stupid except for this. I believe doing this will matter more to Wspace than trying to hobble together combat refitting.
I don't agree with having to bring a suitcase with you to every engagement so you can barbie doll miracle room your fit for every occasion.
Does it suck losing combat refits.... Yes. It is hardly a necessity for small gangs or groups, as they normally did not have a pair of carrier in tow, the Nestor's have only been around for a year, and the mobile depots turned what required a billion isk ship on the field, an active pos you can get into wth a sma, or a space station, down to something that costs 500k and some cargo space.
Wspace will hardly collapse and small groups won't cave in because of it.
There are better ways to improve combat in eve, staring at your refit window and cargo hold shouldn't be one of them.
Sorry to be against the grain but no. It needs to go. Balance can't be achieved if people can actively manipulate their own stats, capabilities and abilities on the fly whenever they want in any situation regardless. There has to be a line.
Yaay!!!!
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Eamon Achasse
Out of Focus Odin's Call
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:25:42 -
[56] - Quote
+1 |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10085
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:26:55 -
[57] - Quote
This really isn't the place for a petition - try Assembly Hall.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
1192
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:33:36 -
[58] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Joe Risalo wrote: you can't keep a mechanic in game that is basically like watching someone play BF4 with an aimbot and wall hack just because it's the only viable option for one niche area of space. Instead, change the mechanic and then create something so that WH space isn't destroyed because of the change, and something limited to WH space so it can't be taken advantage of from outside WH space. Everything up until that point was completely batsh-t stupid except for this. I believe doing this will matter more to Wspace than trying to hobble together combat refitting.
Everything up until that point was intended to be batshit crazy, as WH space itself is batshit crazy not only on design implementation, but also the mentality it takes to live in and off WH space. Sometimes batshit is exactly what is needed in order to make things more entertaining and complex.
BF4 rendezook is a good example of something that was batshit crazy to do and allow, yet it's awesome to have in that game. |
blue coeur
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
25
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:34:48 -
[59] - Quote
+1 |
Mikko Sisu
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:35:38 -
[60] - Quote
+1 |
|
Tosan Ijonen
Dropbears Anonymous
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:42:23 -
[61] - Quote
Signed.
|
W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
105
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:44:09 -
[62] - Quote
Signed |
Ayallah
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
456
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:45:50 -
[63] - Quote
Signed
Until she returns
|
Waylo Azomi
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:50:05 -
[64] - Quote
+1 Signed |
Eladanus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:50:43 -
[65] - Quote
Signed |
Yasemin Hanim
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
10
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:52:55 -
[66] - Quote
+1 |
Paquito
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 21:53:53 -
[67] - Quote
Signed. |
Blueprint Buyer
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:02:38 -
[68] - Quote
Against * |
Sean Crees
Sean's Safe Haven
22
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:03:56 -
[69] - Quote
Where's the Downvote option?
Can i -1 this, or is just posting in this thread going to be assumed as support for it?
-1
CCP, your doing a great job. Can't wait for this change as well as the other proposed changes. KEEP IT UP! |
Mardok Alfrir
Alea Iacta Est Universal Blades of Grass
11
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:06:41 -
[70] - Quote
Signed. |
|
Glyndi
Isogen 5
283
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:08:56 -
[71] - Quote
signed |
Stupid1324
DEATH'S LEGION Dead Terrorists
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:09:57 -
[72] - Quote
That this has even been considered is a travesty, it is without doubt one of the best parts of flying caps, with the introduction of the nestor a whole new level of complexity was brought in to those willing to use it for sub cap pvp, it is no way broken and should be left alone. |
Sulzer Wartzilla
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
43
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:11:40 -
[73] - Quote
Absolutely. The removal of remote repairs and cap transfers from carriers and supers is more than enough to nerf the current overpowered capital fleet gameplay.
Removing combat refitting would do nothing for the balance of the game, but instead remove interesting gameplay from Eve.
If you check out CCP's reasoning from the dev blog;
Quote:The Swiss-army knife nature of refitting capitals makes trying to balance them impossible.
This is a weak argument. It smacks of 'we can't think of anything so we're just going to delete this gameplay'. I hope CCP changes course and instead faces the challenge of balancing ships with combat refitting still in play, head-on. |
Jezza McWaffle
Isogen 5
271
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:11:48 -
[74] - Quote
Signed.
Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
|
Till Riedell
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:14:04 -
[75] - Quote
Signed. |
Reve Uhad
Isogen 5
53
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:17:44 -
[76] - Quote
> Implying CCP gives a **** about petitions |
Widdles
Easily.Offended The Bastion
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:18:39 -
[77] - Quote
Keep infight refitting...... |
Glyndi
Isogen 5
283
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:19:44 -
[78] - Quote
Reve Uhad wrote:> Implying CCP gives a **** about petitions
let me translate: "Signed" |
Jester 70
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:20:38 -
[79] - Quote
signed.
For all the great reasons stated before |
Reve Uhad
Isogen 5
53
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:21:06 -
[80] - Quote
Glyndi wrote:Reve Uhad wrote:> Implying CCP gives a **** about petitions let me translate: "Signed"
I DO NOT DELEGATE MY VOTE TO PROXY. |
|
Amera Khan
Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel
44
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:26:19 -
[81] - Quote
Signed |
Angelique Duchemin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
969
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:30:43 -
[82] - Quote
Where's the option to un-sign a petition and so cancel out the person before you?
The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:33:52 -
[83] - Quote
Not supported, the current way of "adapting your ship" by refitting during battle is clunky and annoying while being almost mandatory since even if you don't do it, chances are the enemy will.
Instead - implement proper mode switch option(s) or a alt-fit which makes refitting more convenient and balanced. This could be balanced with spool-up timers, invulnerability or vulnerability windows etc.
What happened to rock, paper, scissors... Instead we have; always choose rock (buffer/tank), refit for paper (DPS) if you are not primary or refit for scissors (Sniper) if your target is too far. We are all just flying the cookie-cutter comps and anyone who does not gets owned. Boring if you ask me.
|
biz Antollare
eXceed Inc.
88
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:36:33 -
[84] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Not supported, the current way of "adapting your ship" by refitting during battle is clunky and annoying while being almost mandatory since even if you don't do it, chances are the enemy will.
Instead - implement proper mode switch option(s) or a alt-fit which makes refitting more convenient and balanced. This could be balanced with spool-up timers, invulnerability or vulnerability windows etc.
What happened to rock, paper, scissors... Instead we have; always choose rock (buffer/tank), refit for paper (DPS) if you are not primary or refit for scissors (Sniper) if your target is too far. We are all just flying the cookie-cutter comps and anyone who does not gets owned. Boring if you ask me.
yea go through all the kills from today on Zkill and find me where everyone has refits for every situation. good luck finding more than 1%. |
Dante Rotsuda
Lazerhawks
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:42:19 -
[85] - Quote
+1 |
smkdeb1
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:43:56 -
[86] - Quote
leave as it, no changes to refttings |
Raquel Saissore
Lazerhawks
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:46:34 -
[87] - Quote
+1
This change will be a deathwish for high end wormhole PVP. |
Lelliana Silas
Ad Perpetuam Memoriam Heideran VII Empyreus
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:50:11 -
[88] - Quote
Signed. Don't remove opportunities for players to distinguish themselves through planning, judgement, and speed of execution.
Also it would really make dread gameplay particularly boring. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
1192
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:54:47 -
[89] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Not supported, the current way of "adapting your ship" by refitting during battle is clunky and annoying while being almost mandatory since even if you don't do it, chances are the enemy will.
Instead - implement proper mode switch option(s) or a alt-fit which makes refitting more convenient and balanced. This could be balanced with spool-up timers, invulnerability or vulnerability windows etc.
What happened to rock, paper, scissors... Instead we have; always choose rock (buffer/tank), refit for paper (DPS) if you are not primary or refit for scissors (Sniper) if your target is too far. We are all just flying the cookie-cutter comps and anyone who does not gets owned. Boring if you ask me. yea go through all the kills from today on Zkill and find me where everyone has refits for every situation. good luck finding even 1%.
Well, based on this comment, it would suggest that making this change has no effect as we'd be unlikely to find 1% of kills that show combat refitting.
Therefore, this changes nothing.. |
vyshnegradsky
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
201
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:56:23 -
[90] - Quote
Signed, refitting in combat is an amazing mechanic.
CCP should be looking for ways to increase activity in fleets, not decrease it.
This one's a bit over the edge guys.
Locked for breaking... well, pretty much all the rules.
|
|
Bigs Miner
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:00:19 -
[91] - Quote
Please don't remove this.. |
Unprovoked Attack Jibberjabba
Kicked. Shadow Cartel
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:08:25 -
[92] - Quote
Signed
What Just Happened?
|
Sara Navorski
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
25
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:11:30 -
[93] - Quote
+1 keep the skill ceiling high. |
Mia Captain
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Snuffed Out
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:18:09 -
[94] - Quote
There's a certain thrill to planning and executing refits that allows for a transforming battlefield. Please don't change it.
Signed- Mia Captain |
Haku Ogino
Noxxelo
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:19:19 -
[95] - Quote
Signed |
Viserion Pavarius
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:25:20 -
[96] - Quote
Signed |
Ailyn Adar
League of Gentlemen SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:30:42 -
[97] - Quote
Signed. |
Ariz Black
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:40:56 -
[98] - Quote
my 4 accounts support this petition |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2881
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:43:58 -
[99] - Quote
Refits aren't being removed, you just can no longer change the second you are targetted. In a longer running fight you can get your timer off, refit then resume fighting. This actually adds more skill to a good combat refit, since you now have to manage downtime as well rather than refitting being a penalty free mechanic. It now has a downside you have to consider and this is good. Also with all cap ships receiving a SMA now, this was seriously needed.
Will it affect certain combat styles, of course it will. as you all say to everyone else, HTFU and adapt. |
Chucky o'brian
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:49:42 -
[100] - Quote
+1 signature
Keep refitting as it is. Its cool that you have this grand idea to how you want your game to change but take a moment and look at what your player base wants. We want challenging dynamic game play and less fixated crap. |
|
Frodo is Swaggin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:50:11 -
[101] - Quote
signed |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
864
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:50:36 -
[102] - Quote
If you are shooting people, you have to survive a minute to make changes. Seems very fair. Have to think strategically.
Plus, maybe more stupid people die. |
Trishka Sukarala
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:08:40 -
[103] - Quote
Signed. |
Prozn Zanjoahir
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:11:54 -
[104] - Quote
Signed.
As a relatively new triage pilot having watched a number of in fight refitting videos I aspire to be able to effectively refit during combat - a very hard thing to master - to multiply the power of my ship. It is one of the few roles in fleet that require individual skill. Please don't take it away.
Nothing about refitting in combat is 'easy mode'. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
340
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:22:31 -
[105] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:If you are shooting people, you have to survive a minute to make changes. Seems very fair. Have to think strategically.
In Triage you don't shoot at anyone and still get the timer. You also can't just stop repping for a minute - you won't have a fleet left by then.
|
Angelique Duchemin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
969
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:32:42 -
[106] - Quote
Prozn Zanjoahir wrote:Signed.
As a relatively new triage pilot having watched a number of in fight refitting videos I aspire to be able to effectively refit during combat - a very hard thing to master - to multiply the power of my ship. It is one of the few roles in fleet that require individual skill. Please don't take it away.
Nothing about refitting in combat is 'easy mode'.
Except this change is the weapon timer. Not the aggression timer so it has no effect on logistics.
The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.
|
Vladimir Khurelem
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Psychotic Tendencies.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:35:12 -
[107] - Quote
signing this |
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:43:40 -
[108] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Not supported, the current way of "adapting your ship" by refitting during battle is clunky and annoying while being almost mandatory since even if you don't do it, chances are the enemy will.
Instead - implement proper mode switch option(s) or a alt-fit which makes refitting more convenient and balanced. This could be balanced with spool-up timers, invulnerability or vulnerability windows etc.
What happened to rock, paper, scissors... Instead we have; always choose rock (buffer/tank), refit for paper (DPS) if you are not primary or refit for scissors (Sniper) if your target is too far. We are all just flying the cookie-cutter comps and anyone who does not gets owned. Boring if you ask me. yea go through all the kills from today on Zkill and find me where everyone has refits for every situation. good luck finding even 1%.
So what would be the big deal of removing the clunky version of it and replacing it by an actual proper feature so that more than 1% starts using it?
I am also fully aware this mostly concerns capitals, which are the ones with enough buffer to properly use this technique which would skew the zKill stats if you count sub-caps.
Finally, what about those using this technique in PVE (which would not appear in zKill)? You are not defending this point so you can continue doing the solo dread in C5/C6 sites I hope? Maybe not you, but I don't see the argument "but this will nerf my ISK/hr technique" coming up a lot... for obvious reasons.
CCP announced this change in conjunction with the capital rebalance. Surely it would be wiser to await the final version of these changes before deciding which side you are on? In the meantime, I trust there was an actual reason why CCP decided to go ahead with these two together.
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:48:54 -
[109] - Quote
Prozn Zanjoahir wrote:Signed.
As a relatively new triage pilot having watched a number of in fight refitting videos I aspire to be able to effectively refit during combat - a very hard thing to master - to multiply the power of my ship. It is one of the few roles in fleet that require individual skill. Please don't take it away.
Nothing about refitting in combat is 'easy mode'.
Who says something must be easy to justify it's removal from EVE? I know EVE has a reputation but I hope there are better reasons than that.
Things can be hard because it takes lots of practice, memory or experience to master. Sometimes it's just hard because the interface is not optimal.
|
Alexis Crane Sharvas
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
5
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:48:57 -
[110] - Quote
Agreed, please don't touch the refitting mechanics. |
|
Meltur
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:50:15 -
[111] - Quote
Signed. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
696
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:02:43 -
[112] - Quote
signed, even though i was never very good at doing it quickly anyway.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
|
Cpt Patrick Archer
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
54
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:11:03 -
[113] - Quote
Signed. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:12:36 -
[114] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post .
Long hair don't care. NNAAAAAAAAAAaaa
Naaa
Naa
Its totally illogical to refit in a firefight. Bring the change!!
Naaa |
Jessica Danikov
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
454
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:24:02 -
[115] - Quote
I'm not going to go all the way and say that changes shouldn't be made, but there is a niche for combat refitting that would be a shame to be abolished entirely. I understand that keeping it as is making balancing quite difficult and maybe limiting that capability to a single class of ships which would make balancing far easier than trying to balance for all capitals. |
Gradur Dohr
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
53
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:24:21 -
[116] - Quote
signed |
SEVISGEN
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:31:56 -
[117] - Quote
signed |
Ampere Tesla
Excognative Ignorance Short Bus Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:49:30 -
[118] - Quote
Signed.
|
Gigiarc
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
9
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 01:58:20 -
[119] - Quote
-1 Combat refitting makes the ships using it far too powerful. |
Omnarius Ziltoid
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
4
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:00:24 -
[120] - Quote
Signed. |
|
Zanthar Eos
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:16:04 -
[121] - Quote
Signed |
Logoshh Hellscream
Euphoria Released WE FORM V0LTA
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:17:16 -
[122] - Quote
Signed |
Joel Freon
No Vacancies
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:17:17 -
[123] - Quote
Dont let them take away refitting..its a valid gameplay that requires some thought process and quick reactions (looking at you lazerhawks video)
Signed. |
Andronitis
Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary
16
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:32:50 -
[124] - Quote
Signed.
There has to be a compromise here somewhere. Loosing the ability to combat refit is a serious blow to all small scale capital fights, especially wormholes where mass is limited and utility is valued. |
Luft Reich
Suddenly Carebears
127
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:40:40 -
[125] - Quote
Signed
ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
|
Ripley voltere
Laserhawkz
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:41:50 -
[126] - Quote
Signed |
Hidden Semen
Laserhawkz
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:43:04 -
[127] - Quote
As the CEO of one of the largest and best WH corps in EVE, I can say we definitely need refitting.
Signed |
Long Muppet
Suddenly Carebears
21
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:44:22 -
[128] - Quote
Signed |
Andy Koraka
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
59
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:02:18 -
[129] - Quote
Signed. |
JohnHenry Holliday
Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:13:20 -
[130] - Quote
Signed. |
|
Miss Alekto
Razors Out
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:14:16 -
[131] - Quote
Signed |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42947
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:37:46 -
[132] - Quote
Signed
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
113
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:38:29 -
[133] - Quote
Good lord, SIGNED.
Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
854
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:41:42 -
[134] - Quote
With the nerf to carriers this is no longer a needed change, it is just dumbing down eve combat and giving us less things to play with.
Signed.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
854
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:43:38 -
[135] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Prozn Zanjoahir wrote:Signed.
As a relatively new triage pilot having watched a number of in fight refitting videos I aspire to be able to effectively refit during combat - a very hard thing to master - to multiply the power of my ship. It is one of the few roles in fleet that require individual skill. Please don't take it away.
Nothing about refitting in combat is 'easy mode'. Except this change is the weapon timer. Not the aggression timer so it has no effect on logistics. Which shows how little you know about this.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
630
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 04:02:04 -
[136] - Quote
Signed
Refitting is a very cool mechanic, especially amongst subcap warfare. The coming changes will also really change the capital warfield and we should not pile on too many delta's at once. |
SeVenNight Deng
Tai-Chi Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 04:44:32 -
[137] - Quote
signed This is a few "skill" that can distinguish a good pilot or bad pilot, even though it is not difficult to perform, not many ppls can do it perfectly in different scenario |
Chou Yakumo
Singularity Services inc Singularity Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 05:05:50 -
[138] - Quote
+1 to keep refitting as it is
Refitting like bombing, manual piloting and pre scanner skill nerf combat probing (k162 sig spawn, the current dscan implementation of the beta scanner, among others) are/were a precious few available examples in eve where actual skill is more valuable than just throwing n+1 bodies at a situation.
The nestor was a complete pile of trash unworthy of consideration beyond a nice shiny hangar toy for those who liked that sort of thing, the addition of refitting made it a viable ship, back to the dumpster for the nestor i suppose.
The upcoming capital changes will render the proposed changes to refitting moot.
Removal of sand from sandbox.
All these points in isolation are worthy of a degree of caution when a proposed mechanics change will cause negative consequences, given this change will hit on all 4 points and im certain more competent people than i can increase this list rather quickly, id have to vote yes to keeping refitting as is, at least til 2 updates after the fax machines are released at which point we would have enough information to make a informed decision as to whether anything needed tweaking. |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 05:16:00 -
[139] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post .
This is a place to debate the petition, because it called Player Features and Ideas Discussion not Player Features and Ideas Petition
This mechanic, ability to retrofit on the fly, in the MIDDLE of combat so that everyone has a counter, is an abysmal game play mechanic when it comes to finding intel, and actually properly fitting your fleet for the combat ahead. This mechanic in turn also GREATLY limits counter play, as combat then turns into who can identify and retrofit faster. That not strategy, that just who can click load loadout button faster. |
Nitris Denitrace
Catastrophic Overview Failure
100
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 06:27:14 -
[140] - Quote
Signed.
What's the difference between me and you?
I can still lock targets.
|
|
Horrace Wimp
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 06:38:09 -
[141] - Quote
I'm not sold on either option.
So I'll sign for postponing the fitting changes until the remaining changes have been pushed live and considered first. |
Starbuck Keikira
20
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 06:40:52 -
[142] - Quote
Signed.
As already stated so well by so many of my fellows here, combat refitting is a real skill and doesn't need to be tinkered with... there's plenty of other stuff to "fix". |
StFu JeRk
eXceed Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 07:06:51 -
[143] - Quote
Signed |
ErrorRon
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
176
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 07:12:40 -
[144] - Quote
+1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM
CCP Gargant - -áDev of my heart.
|
Djafyh
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 08:46:09 -
[145] - Quote
Signed.
Don't change it. |
fenistil
Space-Brewery-Association
110
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 08:52:06 -
[146] - Quote
Signed.
.
|
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
52
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 09:03:42 -
[147] - Quote
Signed. I'm especially against Triage being given a weapons timer. |
Vladimir Gennady
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 09:19:14 -
[148] - Quote
Signed. No need to gimp an engaging and often difficult to execute play style. Refitting, at least as it applies to triage and sub-capital fights, does not need to be nerfed. |
taylor04
Hax.
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 10:07:02 -
[149] - Quote
All sub caps can refit..
Dreads & Carriers can ONLY refit off
mobile depot Super Titan
Because Carriers are far 2 dank with the option to refit, even in small numbers..
Super's & Titan's fit off each other as normal as they are a lrge investment
|
Bradford Clear
Limited Power Inc It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
71
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 10:09:57 -
[150] - Quote
I would prefer to refit my dread in siege. It doesn't mean that it can out tank anyone it just simply means people need get smarter at adapting when they know caps are on grid. +1 for staying the same.
Join : Bradford's 3rd Party Channel
For all third party Services, and check out my thread.
Forum Link
|
|
Winthorp
3811
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 10:37:34 -
[151] - Quote
+1 Signed. |
Chaotix Morwen
Ugly Duckling Inc
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 11:04:43 -
[152] - Quote
-1 combat refitting requires no skill and has no counterplay. Those of you who claim you like challenging gameplay, the challenge is now to survive 60 seconds before you adapt your ship to perfectly handle the current threat. |
Rishel Sul-Than
fiftyninepee
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 11:12:12 -
[153] - Quote
Signed |
Tara Read
Hax.
865
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 11:14:01 -
[154] - Quote
I had the privilege of speaking with CCP Laarikin at Eve Vegas about the refitting changes last year. Refitting is indeed one of the core elements of immersion and versatility in fleets as well as adaptability in subcapital doctrines. I am looking forward to more in depth discussion about maintaining a core element of game play many of us enjoy.
Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at http://hoistthecolors.org
|
Synthec
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
17
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 11:24:57 -
[155] - Quote
+1 leave it alone |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
222
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 11:40:29 -
[156] - Quote
+1 Refitting is fun . Don't break what works in Wh's to fix a minor inconveniance in null.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
Yoedric Tharewyn
fiftyninepee
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 12:14:00 -
[157] - Quote
Signed. |
Xylorn Hasher
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
140
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 12:33:39 -
[158] - Quote
Signed.
Keep it as it is now.
All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption.
|
Green Cobra
Warwing Security
3
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 13:43:51 -
[159] - Quote
+1 Signed |
biz Antollare
eXceed Inc.
103
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 13:50:52 -
[160] - Quote
I think the machariel problem of swapping out guns based on range can be solved pretty easily.
A good compromise would be making all guns and missile launchers only fitable at a station or pos.
that solves the mach issue while preserving the refitting that we all love. |
|
Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
28
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 14:23:28 -
[161] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:biz Antollare wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:-1 I do not support this petition, change is the nature of survival, and in this case, they are making the change to balance capitals (carriers specially) so that they have less of a swiss army knife role. Because honestly, part of Eve is knowing your enemy before you engage them. this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post . Says this to someone against the petition. Says nothing to those expressing opinions in support of petition. For this reason alone, I have to say I do not support the petition, despite not supporting, apparently, not being an option. Edit.. To be a bit more literal on this. I do not support the petition (thus I support the change) as the current mechanic basically allows a single ship to become more than 3 different ships on the fly. Shield tank, Armor tank, Hull tank, Full DPS, Full logi. If you want a versatile fleet, you should have to bring a versatile fleet, not play "build-a-blocks" during combat.. Guessing you've never lived in a wormhole before, let alone had a wormhole cap fight? That's okay, I won't hold it against you, but please learn what you are talking about before going on about something... Allow me to elaborate: When you go Bhalls deep into someones hole, you are sometimes closing the hole behind you. There is literally a limited number to the ships you can bring. Around 3 capitals and an assortment of Nestors / T3s / Logi. Whereas when you're jumping into someone home for a fight, whose ever home it is can literally blob the **** out of you with as many pilots and capitals as they have online (or can ping to get online) (it could go as far as the 70 vs 40 like what NoHo had against the goon wormhole corp. For the record, they wrecked our face off in a very good fight!). Refitting during combat allows the fleet jumping the hole, usually outnumbered if its a proper fight, to actually put up a decent fight and potentially win against stronger odds. Removing this while you have a combat timer just means yet more stagnation for bigger, already rare fights, in wormholes. I agree with the let people give reasons though. If someone supports or does not support, it's fine for them to state why.
This sounds like complete bullshit. Are you really arguing that if the larger group is too dumb to use combat refits you can win as the smaller group by using combat refits?
It is rather trivial to recognize that combat refits would actually benefit the larger group even more than the smaller group because e.g. more ships can be fitted for max dps, force multipliers, etc.
So actually the opposite of the nonsense you told us is the case or is there some hidden mechanic of wormholes I am not familiar with that prevents defenders from using combat refits?
PS.: A lot of you argue, that it would take skill to combat refit. I think that notion is ridiculous. I would argue that removing combat refits adds depth to the game because now choice matters and you can't go unprepared in a fight and adjust your fit with one simple click to whatever suits you best in that moment. So no support! |
Movtaron
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
16
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 15:21:31 -
[162] - Quote
Signed. |
Tellatubby
Cylon Nation
4
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 15:42:19 -
[163] - Quote
Onehundredandsixtythirded |
Zoon Muidac
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 17:35:21 -
[164] - Quote
Keep it as it is please. |
Masao Kurata
Alpha Sleepers
310
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 18:09:46 -
[165] - Quote
Sort of signed. It might be justified to change this for capitals, but combat refitting is absolutely fine on subcaps. |
M1k3y Koontz
Respawn Disabled The Initiative.
804
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 18:17:29 -
[166] - Quote
The cap changes haven't even been announced and people are freaking out, the EVE playerbase is like a massive sociolgy experiment. I withhold my opinion on any proposed changes until they are actually published
Haidere wrote: Why make the game even more like World of Warcraft: Spaceships Edition?
VirusMD wrote:Stop dumbing down Eve CCP, This is not WoW! Please leave the refitting mechanics alone!
As has been long established by the EVE Lobby of Bittervets, any change to EVE means it's turning into WOW in space! Just keep beating that dead horse.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
Apollo Shinoda
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 18:41:28 -
[167] - Quote
+1 for not trying to fix what isn't broken.
Signature |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
857
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 18:50:25 -
[168] - Quote
Chaotix Morwen wrote:-1 combat refitting requires no skill and has no counterplay. Those of you who claim you like challenging gameplay, the challenge is now to survive 60 seconds before you adapt your ship to perfectly handle the current threat. Ever heard of bumps?
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Allus Nova
43
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 19:16:26 -
[169] - Quote
I agree, Refitting in combat makes the game more interesting. Restrict repping carriers to triage that's fine, do away with slowcats, but don't make this World of Warcraft...seriously...we play Eve for a reason! |
Ong
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
129
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 19:52:58 -
[170] - Quote
+1
Of all the things wrong with this game, this is not one of them. |
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1163
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 20:23:32 -
[171] - Quote
Varyah wrote: This sounds like complete bullshit.
This sounds like you've never gone Bhalls deep into someone elses hole...
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
|
Athraws
Rising Thunder
11
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 20:46:20 -
[172] - Quote
I support this message. Let the capital changes stand on their own and see how they pan out first. If there is still a problem, this issue can always be reexamined at a later date. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1854
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 21:48:09 -
[173] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Varyah wrote: This sounds like complete bullshit.
This sounds like you've never gone Bhalls deep into someone elses hole... So the invader is the only one that gets to use combat refits?
I'm pretty ambivalent about this, but the logic of being a WH invader centric asset when engaging a larger entrenched force that can do the same doesn't seem all that convincing.
Maybe those invading forces would fare better when the inhabitants didn't have numbers and the ability to turn one fit into as many as necessary over the course of a fight. Maybe not. |
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 22:58:01 -
[174] - Quote
Weaklings |
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1164
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 23:36:10 -
[175] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Varyah wrote: This sounds like complete bullshit.
This sounds like you've never gone Bhalls deep into someone elses hole... So the invader is the only one that gets to use combat refits? I'm pretty ambivalent about this, but the logic of being a WH invader centric asset when engaging a larger entrenched force that can do the same doesn't seem all that convincing. Maybe those invading forces would fare better when the inhabitants didn't have numbers and the ability to turn one fit into as many as necessary over the course of a fight. Maybe not. No, the invader is not the only one that can use it. Obviously. Jesus it's like trying to explain the same thing to the same people every time someone quotes me.
Allow me to elaborate. There is REAL SKILL involved in refitting, not ingame skills. Actually refit skills. Please see the Lazerhawks video I posted earlier.
A competent PvP group going agaisnt a larger group in their home hole will mean that they can actiaually hold their own in that fight rather than just be blobbed by capitals and slaughtered. It takes real skill to refit when youre under pressure to be able to manage cap, tank and maintain reps on people / reps on yourself.
A fight that involves two groups with reffiters that know what they are doing. Oh man, you need to be in one of them fights!
Please go away, watch the videos, try it out and come back. You will understand that good fight, I mean really good, gritty fights sometimes rely on this mechanic.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1854
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 00:43:31 -
[176] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:No, the invader is not the only one that can use it. Obviously. Jesus it's like trying to explain the same thing to the same people every time someone quotes me. Given the bias you keep giving to combat refits as an enabler to invaders the question seems pretty fair.
Seraph Essael wrote:Allow me to elaborate. There is REAL SKILL involved in refitting, not ingame skills. Actually refit skills. Please see the Lazerhawks video I posted earlier.
A competent PvP group going agaisnt a larger group in their home hole will mean that they can actiaually hold their own in that fight rather than just be blobbed by capitals and slaughtered. It takes real skill to refit when youre under pressure to be able to manage cap, tank and maintain reps on people / reps on yourself. I'm not seeing anyone dispute that there is skill involved, only question how this is specifically an invader advantage. Your reference to blobbing states this advantage exists, but doesn't do much to demonstrate is aside from implying that fights are more interesting when the capacity to fail or extend the fight through combat refits (possibly desirable in itself, but not an invader centric asset).
So that's the question still being asked: Is it just the greater capacity to fail while refitting that in your estimation enables the defender somehow without working against them, through their own mistakes or hostile competence, or something else?
Seraph Essael wrote:A fight that involves two groups with reffiters that know what they are doing. Oh man, you need to be in one of them fights!
Please go away, watch the videos, try it out and come back. You will understand that good fight, I mean really good, gritty fights sometimes rely on this mechanic. So the contention now is that you can't have good fights without refitting? |
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel
97
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 00:56:36 -
[177] - Quote
Signed |
Thirdsin
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
32
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 00:57:21 -
[178] - Quote
Welcome to Eve. Where the Fleets F1 and Skill doesn't matter.
+1 |
Roland Cassidy
V.O.I.D. Shadow Cartel
152
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 02:28:17 -
[179] - Quote
+1
If refitting Capitals are the problem then why not make it a capital level change and not every ship in the game. Refit mechanics can allow smaller more tenacious and prepared groups to take on larger less coordinated forces of N+1warriors. They give these groups the fighting chance, and an edge that the large groups can't manage due to the unweildiness of the group.
There's a better solution to "This doesn't work with this ship class" than "lets rip it out for ALL the ship classes."
"Watashi no Tao wa magarikunetta michidesu. Watashi wa toraedokoro no nai, heiwa o motome, samayoimasu."
(Trans) "My Tao is a winding path. I wander, seeking an elusive peace. "
µ¦¬S¦¦
|
Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
30
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 02:32:38 -
[180] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Seraph Essael wrote:Varyah wrote: This sounds like complete bullshit.
This sounds like you've never gone Bhalls deep into someone elses hole... So the invader is the only one that gets to use combat refits? I'm pretty ambivalent about this, but the logic of being a WH invader centric asset when engaging a larger entrenched force that can do the same doesn't seem all that convincing. Maybe those invading forces would fare better when the inhabitants didn't have numbers and the ability to turn one fit into as many as necessary over the course of a fight. Maybe not. No, the invader is not the only one that can use it. Obviously. Jesus it's like trying to explain the same thing to the same people every time someone quotes me. Allow me to elaborate. There is REAL SKILL involved in refitting, not ingame skills. Actually refit skills. Please see the Lazerhawks video I posted earlier. A competent PvP group going agaisnt a larger group in their home hole will mean that they can actiaually hold their own in that fight rather than just be blobbed by capitals and slaughtered. It takes real skill to refit when youre under pressure to be able to manage cap, tank and maintain reps on people / reps on yourself. A fight that involves two groups with reffiters that know what they are doing. Oh man, you need to be in one of them fights! Please go away, watch the videos, try it out and come back. You will understand that good fight, I mean really good, gritty fights sometimes rely on this mechanic.
Sorry but your argument is still that combat refits should stay so that players with REAL SKILL but small in numbers have an advantage over idiots with NO SKILL and high numbers. You are apparently comparing competent players with incompetent ones. Usually when considering balancing game mechanics ones does assumes about equal "skill" on both sides. And besides, if combat refitting is the only reason you can win against a blob of amateurs that never heard of combat refits then you obviously had bad intel - otherwise you would have been prepared better. |
|
Alundil
Isogen 5
1083
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 02:40:05 -
[181] - Quote
Reve Uhad wrote:Glyndi wrote:Reve Uhad wrote:> Implying CCP gives a **** about petitions let me translate: "Signed" I DO NOT DELEGATE MY VOTE TO PROXY. That's not what she .... Wait what?
I'm right behind you
|
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1166
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 04:08:16 -
[182] - Quote
Varyah wrote:Sorry but your argument is still that combat refits should stay so that players with REAL SKILL but small in numbers have an advantage over idiots with NO SKILL and high numbers. You are apparently comparing competent players with incompetent ones. Usually when considering balancing game mechanics ones does assumes about equal "skill" on both sides. And besides, if combat refitting is the only reason you can win against a blob of amateurs that never heard of combat refits then you obviously had bad intel - otherwise you would have been prepared better.
Confirming you have absolutely no clue here, both fleets can use combat refitting, both sides can do it. If both sides in a fleet can combat refit then it's perfectly equal, just because someone doesn't or cannot do it, does not make it overpowered... You seem to not understand about combat refitting, how wormhole fights actually work (including going into someone elses hole, because by your rules, you seem to think you would know every single ship that every single pilot will field before they field it), with PvP in general and with what I (and many others in this thread) am saying. I have tried explaining to you and you haven't (or are unwilling to) understand; Therefore I won't argue the point any more with you. Sorry.
Tyberius Franklin wrote: So that's the question still being asked: Is it just the greater capacity to fail while refitting that in your estimation enables the defender somehow without working against them, through their own mistakes or hostile competence, or something else?
I'm not even sure what that is asking to be entirely honest. Sorry. Perhaps rephrase the question, will attempt to answer when I understand.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So the contention now is that you can't have good fights without refitting?
Negative, that's not what I am saying, and never once said that. But the good fights that you can have can be elongated by the fact combat refitting is a thing and can make them even better.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Snip Sorry not quoting all that, getting far too long.
Okay dokay, so here's a scenario for you:
Fleet jumps a wormhole. Some caps and a whole fleet of T3's. Wormhole collapses. This fleet have gone Bhalls deep. The fleet start winning the fight. But as it's their enemies own hole, they reship and come back at range with more ships and knowing the fleet that was brought can't project out that far. They now have superior numbers and superior range.
Better yet, watch this video It shows exactly what I am trying to explain.
For the record, if you can't be arsed to watch it, we lost our Dreads, we pulled our fleet out by all purpose we lost the fight that day. We where the Bhalls deep fleet and it was an amazing fight that only lasted as long due to the ability to refit. Had we been unable to do just that, there would have been a very much shorter video.
Not to sound rude. But is this an alt? Five year old char in NPC corp with only two losses to his name? Because if it's your main, I am afraid, as you haven't done any combat refitting or experienced fight in which it is necessary, you cannot, come hell or high water, fathom what I am trying to say. (and no that's not meant as a sly "Post with your main" before you ask)
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1854
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 04:46:13 -
[183] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:[quote=Seraph Essael]I'm not even sure what that is asking to be entirely honest. Sorry. Perhaps rephrase the question, will attempt to answer when I understand. Though it may not have been your intent you did answer.
As far as the vid, not at a place I can watch, so I can't for now, but thanks for the description.
Regarding understanding, this isn't as deep as you're making it (understanding and execution don't really have to go hand in hand with this game, just a willingness to listen). Rather it's a series of assumptions that the changes aren't being made with a lack of combat refitting in mind and how having cap centric mods with refitting might break certain aspects of cap warfare.
Whereas now it lengthens fights, if cap modules actually turn out useful combat refitting may just make invasions that much harder against capable opponents using it since the would be able to more easily counter what you brought to a fight on the fly or keep their assets alive longer, denying loss that may have been inflicted more easily on current caps.
Saying combat refits will benefit the new caps in WH space, while possibly correct as a final conclusion, seems pretty shortsighted with the lack of particulars.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
333
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 05:47:24 -
[184] - Quote
+1
Signed.
Its not broken... stop dumbing down the game CCP |
Djeli
Haywire.
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 06:13:31 -
[185] - Quote
Signed. |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
93
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 06:18:54 -
[186] - Quote
Maraner wrote:+1
Signed.
Its not broken... stop dumbing down the game CCP
It dumbing down the game, to...make people have to do more research, better prep their fleets, make sure they bring proper logi, and in turn making it so that carriers can't play as mobile refitting fortresses? Please tell me how you came up to the conclusion that CCP is anyway dumbing down the game by making this change? Hell seems to me they've just upped the difficulty curve.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Victor MaCleod
eXceed Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 06:23:04 -
[187] - Quote
Signed. |
Ossey
Haywire.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 11:42:48 -
[188] - Quote
Signed. It's a problem in one area of the game, there has to be a more creative solution thank a blanket nerf to the entire game. |
Karouet Andedare
fiftyninepee
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 13:00:27 -
[189] - Quote
signed |
Zerb Erusius
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 14:30:48 -
[190] - Quote
signed |
|
Zycorax II
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 14:44:51 -
[191] - Quote
I approve of this petition.
Signed |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
342
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 14:47:25 -
[192] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:It dumbing down the game, to...make people have to do more research, better prep their fleets
You F1 monkeys don't do research anyway - you fit according to the doctrine of your alliance and hit F1 when your FC tells you to. Combat refitting puts at least some of that responsibility back to the individual pilot. I can understand why the average F1 monkey might be scared of that.
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 17:13:32 -
[193] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:It dumbing down the game, to...make people have to do more research, better prep their fleets You F1 monkeys don't do research anyway - you fit according to the doctrine of your alliance and hit F1 when your FC tells you to. Combat refitting puts at least some of that responsibility back to the individual pilot. I can understand why the average F1 monkey might be scared of that.
I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take, that being said, if I'm a f1 monkey and all I can do is think of what the FC tells me, what makes you think that the fit change is my responsibility and simply press a button as soon as the FC yells "REFIT TO ARMOR TANK!"?
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Angelique Duchemin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
971
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 17:59:13 -
[194] - Quote
If combat refitting is so good because it awards adaptation. Then why is it that the people who are so in favour of it, are at the same time terrified of having to adapt to a world where it is changed?
The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
396
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 19:24:18 -
[195] - Quote
signed,
I think this change should be made at a time when only the finest-tuning is going on (though that said, with the capital rebalance and indroduction of force auxiliaries, I don't think it's needed......)
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Nex Ut-Totus
Suddenly Carebears
5
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 19:35:18 -
[196] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:If combat refitting is so good because it awards adaptation. Then why is it that the people who are so in favour of it, are at the same time terrified of having to adapt to a world where it is changed? Only fitting managers and fleet commanders will adapt their fits and strategies and Eve probably will become more boring as a result. Signed, i think this change will be too much with the others. We should see how new capitals play out first. And for subcaps, CCP can increase gun volumes so people can't switch between AC and arty. |
Sakul Aubaris
Holy Cookie
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 20:00:35 -
[197] - Quote
Signed.
I understand the reasons behind removing refitting within combat, but i think its the wrong patch to reach those goals. It's a nice metagaming possibility and one of the most difficult to lern playerskills in EVE. So CCP try to balance the new capitalmods right and you can achieve your goals without removing this feature. |
Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
30
|
Posted - 2016.01.09 21:29:26 -
[198] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Varyah wrote:Sorry but your argument is still that combat refits should stay so that players with REAL SKILL but small in numbers have an advantage over idiots with NO SKILL and high numbers. You are apparently comparing competent players with incompetent ones. Usually when considering balancing game mechanics ones does assumes about equal "skill" on both sides. And besides, if combat refitting is the only reason you can win against a blob of amateurs that never heard of combat refits then you obviously had bad intel - otherwise you would have been prepared better.
Confirming you have absolutely no clue here, both fleets can use combat refitting, both sides can do it. If both sides in a fleet can combat refit then it's perfectly equal, just because someone doesn't or cannot do it, does not make it overpowered... You seem to not understand about combat refitting, how wormhole fights actually work (including going into someone elses hole, because by your rules, you seem to think you would know every single ship that every single pilot will field before they field it), with PvP in general and with what I (and many others in this thread) am saying. I have tried explaining to you and you haven't (or are unwilling to) understand; Therefore I won't argue the point any more with you. Sorry.
You don't seem to understand the problem I am having with your argument, not pointed out by me alone. The only thing I wanted to point out is that that argument of yours isn't an argument at all. To restate it in simple terms:
You acknowledge that if both sides can combat refit properly then it's perfectly equal. Great.
Then, again, you go on and tell me that this somehow applies differently in wormholes - your example is still as I understand it going with a small number of pilots against a larger defender in their hole.
So where did we lose the perfectly equal when going into the wormhole scenario?
The thing is you cannot always assume that your target (other group in their hole) doesn't understand the fitting mechanic - unless of course your strategy is to pick on amateurs (which shows really great skill going exclusively after weaker players). This is the problem I have with your argument, you stacked its premise in your favor without justification. And this makes your argument flawed. Yes, IF your opponents are a bunch of amateurs you have an advantage - BUT that is independent of the wormholes EVEN IF you assume that your targets are always amateurs (generally not the case). |
Testament81
Southern Cross Incorporated Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 02:07:22 -
[199] - Quote
do not change |
Requiescat
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
205
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 02:57:09 -
[200] - Quote
Varyah wrote:stuff about refitting in whs
let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think;
removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders
Maria Dragoon wrote:I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take
we assume because you don't post with your main. what are you afraid of? what reason could you have for posting with a noob corp alt? is digi going to kill your dog?
hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendGÖÑ
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 03:20:33 -
[201] - Quote
Requiescat wrote:Varyah wrote:stuff about refitting in whs let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think; removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders Maria Dragoon wrote:I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take we assume because you don't post with your main. what are you afraid of? what reason could you have for posting with a noob corp alt? is digi going to kill your dog?
I'm also glad that you assume that because I'm in a NPC corp, that this is not my main character. Tell you a secret. All my characters at the moment are inside NPC corps at the moment. Why are they inside npc corps? Because I simply don't feel like joining another corp at the moment, you can check my corp history if you wish, you can see that I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt. Do it, log into the game, and look up my name, it shouldn't be all that hard. Now that we gotten the impression that you do a lot of assuming out of the way, I'm going to poke one massive hole in the argument above.
Why didn't you first send scouts to find out what the wormhole environment is like, and then fitting your ship to best take advantage of that. do you people really just jump head first into a wormhole without sending scouts and doing research on what the possible residences like to fly?
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1167
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 04:21:14 -
[202] - Quote
Requiescat, you get it at the base point. Thank god someone does!!! There's more too it than what you say, but you have the fundamental core, yes!
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 04:26:23 -
[203] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:Requiescat wrote:Varyah wrote:stuff about refitting in whs let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think; removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders Maria Dragoon wrote:I'm sorry that you assume to know what profession I take we assume because you don't post with your main. what are you afraid of? what reason could you have for posting with a noob corp alt? is digi going to kill your dog? I'm also glad that you assume that because I'm in a NPC corp, that this is not my main character. Tell you a secret. All my characters at the moment are inside NPC corps at the moment. Why are they inside npc corps? Because I simply don't feel like joining another corp at the moment, you can check my corp history if you wish, you can see that I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt. Do it, log into the game, and look up my name, it shouldn't be all that hard. Now that we gotten the impression that you do a lot of assuming out of the way, I'm going to poke one massive hole in the argument above. Why didn't you first send scouts to find out what the wormhole environment is like, and then fitting your ship to best take advantage of that. do you people really just jump head first into a wormhole without sending scouts and doing research on what the possible residences like to fly? Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?
There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.
"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring
Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that. |
Luft Reich
Suddenly Carebears
128
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Posted - 2016.01.10 04:28:57 -
[204] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:If combat refitting is so good because it awards adaptation. Then why is it that the people who are so in favour of it, are at the same time terrified of having to adapt to a world where it is changed?
God damn you are dumb....
ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 04:47:06 -
[205] - Quote
Top Guac wrote: Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?
There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.
"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring
Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that.
Opportunity for fun can still be have, you can still send a small sub-cap fleet through, can still have a quick probe force thrown up to scan them down as fast as possible to see if you can nab a few and and get a few kills. That being said. hot swapping in the middle of fights doesn't create interesting and evolving game play, it creates stale gameplay on who can click that swap loadout faster then the other guy. It creates a gameplay where every ship can be a swiss army knife as soon as a carrier shows up, or has a mobile depot sitting next to them. That doesn't create interesting game-play and it only favors large fleets who can bring that kind of force and assets to bare.
But I'll tell you want. I'll make a prediction for you.
I will predict that this petition will go exactly where the Music juke box petition went after it was removed. Absolutely no where. :)
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
98
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Posted - 2016.01.10 05:00:04 -
[206] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:Top Guac wrote: Do you really want all WH pvp to be stale, slow, built up engagements because you need to scout ahead for a couple of days to see what the residents fly?
There's something to be said for spontaneity and for changing wormhole connections that mean you never know exactly what the chain will hold in store for you to pvp.
"Sorry guys, we can't go fight, we need to scout first".........boring
Sometimes an opportunity for fun is much better then that.
Opportunity for fun can still be have, you can still send a small sub-cap fleet through, can still have a quick probe force thrown up to scan them down as fast as possible to see if you can nab a few and and get a few kills. That being said. hot swapping in the middle of fights doesn't create interesting and evolving game play, it creates stale gameplay on who can click that swap loadout faster then the other guy. It creates a gameplay where every ship can be a swiss army knife as soon as a carrier shows up, or has a mobile depot sitting next to them. That doesn't create interesting game-play and it only favors large fleets who can bring that kind of force and assets to bare. But I'll tell you want. I'll make a prediction for you. I will predict that this petition will go exactly where the Music juke box petition went after it was removed. Absolutely no where. :) Do you even wormhole mate?
First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay.
Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue? |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 05:25:16 -
[207] - Quote
Top Guac wrote: Do you even wormhole mate?
First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay.
Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue?
Oh, now we are going to play the, do you even wormhole card.
I been through wormholes a few times, 99% of the time, it was simply passing through, the other 1% of the time I was curious on what was on the other side and popped my head in, and was more often then not greeted by, well.. Nothing, sometimes I would scan a few sites down, and peak around to see if anyone left behind some loot, only to find angry sleeper ships. Didn't care much for it, because I'm making more then enough isk doing what I do. But from my short time inside of the wormhole, nothing much was different besides the total lack of local, and of course if you don't bring probes, you run the risk of getting stuck in said wormhole. Then sometimes you have wormholes with effects that challenge or bolster your ship depending on your fit, or straight up, the ship itself.
"First you suggest boring gameplay as an option and then completely constrained gameplay."
My counter would be of course that I find ships acting as swiss army knives as boring gameplay, and offers no real excitement when you do the research on how someone fits and flies, and prepping a counter ship, only to have them suddenly retrofit half way though the fight. But hey man, keep preaching what you preach.
"Why are even suggesting a certain style of play when it's clear you don't have much clue?"
what exactly style of play does Refitting while in direct combat fall under? Pray, do enlighten me.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 05:31:29 -
[208] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote: Pray, do enlighten me. It is doubtful that enough time exists. |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 05:36:07 -
[209] - Quote
Top Guac wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote: Pray, do enlighten me. It is doubtful that enough time exists.
So basically, you have nothing.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
537
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Posted - 2016.01.10 05:49:09 -
[210] - Quote
+1/signed. Keep Combat refitting. Maybe a 20 second delay/session change or something, but keep combat refitting as combat refitting.
The Law is a point of View
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Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1167
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Posted - 2016.01.10 17:19:18 -
[211] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:Top Guac wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote: Pray, do enlighten me. It is doubtful that enough time exists. So basically, you have nothing. No, basically what he is saying is you will never understand, as proven by all your posts in this thread. Therefore it is a waste of time even trying; because no matter how many times he explains, how many hours he spends trying, you have already made up your mind that you are right and the masses explaining to you why you aren't, are all wrong...
Therefore it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level, because you will only beat us to death with your experience at such level.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
99
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Posted - 2016.01.10 18:04:12 -
[212] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote:Top Guac wrote:Maria Dragoon wrote: Pray, do enlighten me. It is doubtful that enough time exists. So basically, you have nothing. No, basically what he is saying is you will never understand, as proven by all your posts in this thread. Therefore it is a waste of time even trying; because no matter how many times he explains, how many hours he spends trying, you have already made up your mind that you are right and the masses explaining to you why you aren't, are all wrong... Therefore it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level, because you will only beat us to death with your experience at such level.
Oh the MASSES disagree with me now huh? I guess that why there are also others in this thread trying to explain to you why it a bad mechanic. CCP decided to change this mechanic, for reasons they explain in great detail. Now this thread crops up.
Long long time ago, we use to have a music juke box. Where we could put music in the folder and play it in game. It was a fun little tool. But CCP was spending god aweful amounts of developer time to make sure it stays up to date, and had all the codecs properly set up, and could run the media files. After a while they Axed it, saying that it was costing the team more time then what it was worth.
A petition, more then one popped up in fact, and it got like I think 200 pages with of signatures AND arguments in it on why they want to keep it, or why wasting developer time was bad. Of course this was back during the six month dev cycle period. Back to my point, you know what happen? The music juke box is still axed. That is why I predict that this thread, will go absolutely no where, specially seeing that the original poster didn't start a discussion on why it should stay, he just threw up a silly petition to have people "sign" it. I made a post explaining why a mechanic is bad, to tell you the truth though. I could have said nothing because I already know that petition threads have in the past, never worked. Thus I don't see them any time in the future ever working.
So sure, make claims that I'm "stupid" or have no clue what I'm talking about, but you are right on one thing. I will beat you on experience, I have seen these things time and time again crop up, and then die. Players will adapt, and will get acustom to their new rule sets, and in turn find new ways to counter their enemy.
So please go ahead, continue your blind resolve. Nothing will happen, the changes will go through as plan. CCP is under no obligation to listen to you, or really anyone.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Sojourn
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2016.01.10 18:49:33 -
[213] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Oh the MASSES disagree with me now huh? I guess that why there are also others in this thread trying to explain to you why it a bad mechanic. CCP decided to change this mechanic, for reasons they explain in great detail. Now this thread crops up.
Long long time ago, we use to have a music juke box. Where we could put music in the folder and play it in game. It was a fun little tool. But CCP was spending god aweful amounts of developer time to make sure it stays up to date, and had all the codecs properly set up, and could run the media files. After a while they Axed it, saying that it was costing the team more time then what it was worth.
A petition, more then one popped up in fact, and it got like I think 200 pages with of signatures AND arguments in it on why they want to keep it, or why wasting developer time was bad. Of course this was back during the six month dev cycle period. Back to my point, you know what happen? The music juke box is still axed. That is why I predict that this thread, will go absolutely no where, specially seeing that the original poster didn't start a discussion on why it should stay, he just threw up a silly petition to have people "sign" it. I made a post explaining why a mechanic is bad, to tell you the truth though. I could have said nothing because I already know that petition threads have in the past, never worked. Thus I don't see them any time in the future ever working.
So sure, make claims that I'm "stupid" or have no clue what I'm talking about, but you are right on one thing. I will beat you on experience, I have seen these things time and time again crop up, and then die. Players will adapt, and will get acustom to their new rule sets, and in turn find new ways to counter their enemy.
So please go ahead, continue your blind resolve. Nothing will happen, the changes will go through as plan. CCP is under no obligation to listen to you, or really anyone.
Holy ******* autism! They aren't claims when they're true. That would be fact. And the fact is: You have no clue as to the **** you be chatting. Gr8 b8 m8. Would r8 8/8! |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 19:14:05 -
[214] - Quote
Sojourn wrote:Holy ******* autism! They aren't claims when they're true. That would be fact. And the fact is: You have no clue as to the **** you be chatting. Gr8 b8 m8. Would r8 8/8!
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Jacob Gault
PH0ENIX COMPANY Phoenix Company Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.11 05:37:15 -
[215] - Quote
All they need to do it make it effect your cap like when you online or offline modules. So player opens his refit panel... soon as he changes out one module it kills other players cap. Each time one changes out it kills his cap more. by %.
25% 1st 30% 2nd 35% 3th 40% 4th 50% 5th
etc etc |
Requiescat
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
206
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 07:05:15 -
[216] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:...I have been in other corps, and this is hardly a forum alt...
corp history: 2014 character, was in e-uni for 9 months, has been in npc corp for 3 months
kb history according to zkill: 2 kills, 8 losses
you and i are done talking, friend
Seraph Essael wrote:it is pointless lowering ourselves to your level wish we'd realized this a few pages ago
hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendGÖÑ
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Cybus Max
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
42
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Posted - 2016.01.11 15:48:41 -
[217] - Quote
signed |
Hinata' Hyuga
Dropbears Anonymous
53
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Posted - 2016.01.11 16:00:44 -
[218] - Quote
Signed |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
537
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 16:06:34 -
[219] - Quote
Jacob Gault wrote:All they need to do it make it effect your cap like when you online or offline modules. So player opens his refit panel... soon as he changes out one module it kills other players cap. Each time one changes out it kills his cap more. by %.
25% 1st 30% 2nd 35% 3th 40% 4th 50% 5th
etc etc So who gets the cap penalty in a fleet of 30 carriers?
The Law is a point of View
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
158
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 16:24:08 -
[220] - Quote
adding my signature to this as well.
Refitting in triage or siege is an in depth, difficult and stressful skill that take many battles to master. The items you swap and how quickly can be the difference of life and death.
There is so much more to combat refitting in triage than just slapping on hardeners and praying to survive. careful micromanagement is key to effective triage.
Btw I have no issue with removal of refitting on ships that are not in bastion/siege/triage
So Much Space
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Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
175
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 17:05:38 -
[221] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:I say we let the refit mechanic stay as is and see how the upcoming changes effect the game first. With cap RR being restricted to being in triage only (no more slow cats) and the new addition of the force aux caps i think the refit mechanic should be left alone.
I personally enjoy refitting in combat and think it adds a level of complication to the game. We continue to play EVE because we like how complicated it is. not being a simple F1 MMO.
KEEP THE REFITTING MECHANIC AS IS
Signed.
+1
and keep the offgrid links too .... |
Valacus
Streets of Fire
123
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 20:07:11 -
[222] - Quote
Why is everyone so desperate to keep this mechanic around? It really only benefits capitals or fleets with capitals on the field, and even then mostly carriers. It won't break the game to change it. Darn, what you showed up to the field fitted in is what you have to fight in. Well, any fleet without Nestors or carriers is in the same boat as you, so I'm sure you'll survive. Mobile depots always get incapped in 2 seconds, so it doesn't affect them at all. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
43078
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 20:57:54 -
[223] - Quote
Valacus wrote:Why is everyone so desperate to keep this mechanic around? It really only benefits capitals or fleets with capitals on the field, and even then mostly carriers. It won't break the game to change it. Darn, what you showed up to the field fitted in is what you have to fight in. Well, any fleet without Nestors or carriers is in the same boat as you, so I'm sure you'll survive. Mobile depots always get incapped in 2 seconds, so it doesn't affect them at all. Obviously I can only answer for me, but my reasoning:
In the last year, CCP have been very vocal about the desire to encourage individual players to take a more active role in flying their ship in pvp. They want a game where the success of a fleet fight comes down to more than the decisions of the FC and everyone else able to press F1 at the right time.
Some things CCP has proposed have been directly aimed at achieving that, including the desire to change the fleet warp mechanics, new area of effect doomsdays coming with the capital rebalance, aspects of fozzie sov designed to break large fleets into smaller groups and mode switching mechanics on T3D that theoretically benefit more active piloting.
I certainly like that overall direction and feel that removal of the ability to refit in combat is a step away from that concept to address the single problem of slowcats.
Refitting is more than just drag and drop from/to a a ship to a hangar as demonstrated in this video that sort of kicked this response off after it was posted to Reddit last week (is also linked on page 1 of this thread):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfv9zRAxgA
The timing and decision making is critical and fits very well with the overall concept CCP is trying to achieve while also taking time to learn at that level of skill - managing the balance between his own tank and cap, while still being able to support his fleet.
So don't remove the mechanic and affect all situations, to address one problem. Address that one problem instead.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
159
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 21:01:36 -
[224] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:
So don't remove the mechanic and affect all situations, to address one problem. Address that one problem instead.
Its funny that they already addressed the problem........and still think they need to address it
So Much Space
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Valacus
Streets of Fire
124
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Posted - 2016.01.11 21:12:58 -
[225] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Valacus wrote:Why is everyone so desperate to keep this mechanic around? It really only benefits capitals or fleets with capitals on the field, and even then mostly carriers. It won't break the game to change it. Darn, what you showed up to the field fitted in is what you have to fight in. Well, any fleet without Nestors or carriers is in the same boat as you, so I'm sure you'll survive. Mobile depots always get incapped in 2 seconds, so it doesn't affect them at all. Obviously I can only answer for me, but my reasoning: In the last year, CCP have been very vocal about the desire to encourage individual players to take a more active role in flying their ship in pvp. They want a game where the success of a fleet fight comes down to more than the decisions of the FC and everyone else able to press F1 at the right time. Some things CCP has proposed have been directly aimed at achieving that, including the desire to change the fleet warp mechanics, new area of effect doomsdays coming with the capital rebalance, aspects of fozzie sov designed to break large fleets into smaller groups and mode switching mechanics on T3D that theoretically benefit more active piloting. I certainly like that overall direction and feel that removal of the ability to refit in combat is a step away from that concept to address the single problem of slowcats. Refitting is more than just drag and drop from/to a a ship to a hangar as demonstrated in this video that sort of kicked this response off after it was posted to Reddit last week (is also linked on page 1 of this thread): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfv9zRAxgA The timing and decision making is critical and fits very well with the overall concept CCP is trying to achieve while also taking time to learn at that level of skill - managing the balance between his own tank and cap, while still being able to support his fleet. So don't remove the mechanic and affect all situations, to address one problem. Address that one problem instead.
But again, that's almost a capital exclusive mechanic, which isn't really the direction I think this game should go in. Capitals are already getting a better way to apply damage and affect battles involve sub-caps. They don't need to be able to swiss army knife their tank in the middle of a fight, or allow entire fleets to do the same. Bringing caps to every fight should not be the way this game moves. The whole point of the jump fatigue patch was to steer in the opposite direction of hot drop only fighting. So what's the solution then? Add MORE combat refitting ships and modules? Should every fight be a refit fight now? I don't think that's a good direction either. I'm all for more ways to let people show their skill in piloting their ships, but refits aren't the way to go. Stuffing your cargo hold for every eventuality doesn't feel like skill to me, and that's on top of the capital requirement, which again, isn't the direction I think the game should move towards. |
Alexis Nightwish
382
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 21:14:21 -
[226] - Quote
The current refitting mechanic is a horrible pile of dogshit that allows a carrier to be the best at anything at any time with no consequences. I'm so glad they're changing it.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
43078
|
Posted - 2016.01.11 22:37:47 -
[227] - Quote
Valacus wrote:But again, that's almost a capital exclusive mechanic, which isn't really the direction I think this game should go in. Capitals are already getting a better way to apply damage and affect battles involve sub-caps. They don't need to be able to swiss army knife their tank in the middle of a fight, or allow entire fleets to do the same. Bringing caps to every fight should not be the way this game moves. The whole point of the jump fatigue patch was to steer in the opposite direction of hot drop only fighting. So what's the solution then? Add MORE combat refitting ships and modules? Should every fight be a refit fight now? I don't think that's a good direction either. I'm all for more ways to let people show their skill in piloting their ships, but refits aren't the way to go. Stuffing your cargo hold for every eventuality doesn't feel like skill to me, and that's on top of the capital requirement, which again, isn't the direction I think the game should move towards. So what if it's primarily a mechanic used by Capitals and fleets with a Nestor (which are reasonably common in BS fleets currently and in wormhole pvp)? There are lots of mechanics in the game that are specialist.
In my experience prior to an since Phoebe, hotdropping is not the issue it was before and doesn't apply at all in J-Space. Aside from BLOPS (which require no capital to hotdrop), most non-BLOPs drops currently seem to be onto Capitals to kill them.
But whatever works for you. We are all just offering opinions here, not working towards a consensus. Your alternative opinion is fine, but just re-read the first line of my response to your question. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
CCP will do what they want in the end, no matter how vocal people are in support or against an idea.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Agakii
Operation Valkyr The Gurlstas Associates
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 00:42:22 -
[228] - Quote
+1 This should stay ingame.
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Luft Reich
Suddenly Carebears
130
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 00:59:33 -
[229] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:The current refitting mechanic is a horrible pile of dogshit that allows a carrier to be the best at anything at any time with no consequences. I'm so glad they're changing it.
Man you have such experience with refitting I can tell! POS Party are clearly ones to go and use capitals and utilize refitting.
Seriously you are dumb. Try playing the game some.
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Luft Reich
Suddenly Carebears
130
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Posted - 2016.01.13 01:03:15 -
[230] - Quote
Faren Shalni wrote:
Btw I have no issue with removal of refitting on ships that are not in bastion/siege/triage
SSC Person with a good idea, what is this world coming to!
If CCP is hellbent on removing refitting in some way this is a good way to compromise.
ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
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Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
30
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:54:08 -
[231] - Quote
Requiescat wrote:Varyah wrote:stuff about refitting in whs let me poke at the point the wh dudes are trying to get at, i think; removing combat refitting takes away something from invaders. not an advantage, but a levelling of the playing field. when someone invades your wh system, they come to your home, and you can watch them do so, then bring appropriate ships to counter them with proper fits for such, refitted from an anchored ship maintenance array at a pos, and never have to worry about combat refitting. when invading someone's hole, you can only bring what you can fit through the hole, and many times it collapses behind you. being able to refit in combat doesn't put invaders at an advantage over defenders, it puts them on the same level, in that aspect at least, which takes away one advantage of the already stacked deck favoring defenders
That's interesting because the other guy stated that if the defenders would also employ combat refitting it would level the playing field. What is it now?
I can understand that the aggressors have only limited resources they can bring. But that the defenders wouldn't get an advantage out of combat refitting because they can choose their fit beforehand is a baseless claim as well! First, combat refitting can at least provide improved staying power by switching tank (shield, armour, hull), so this is an advantage the defender can have in any case. Second, the fact that the defenders can fit their ships taking into account what kind of ships aggressors brought is not really a wormhole specific thing.
The only difference it seems is that the aggressor might not be able to supply reinforcements like in K-space. And this I would argue is a wormhole problem (ask for increase of ships/mass allowed to pass wormholes or whatever) and has nothing to do with combat refitting - because both parties can do it and force multiplication would dictate that the larger group would get an advantage over the smaller group by employing combat refitting. So in fact you wormhole guys should even argue for the removal of combat refitting because it reduces the greater advantage the defenders might have over the aggressors - which have already some disadvantages. |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
38
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Posted - 2016.01.17 05:37:46 -
[232] - Quote
Signed
This is a mechanic which encourages creativity and specialised tactics. EVE would be a poorer game without it. |
Valacus
Streets of Fire
125
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Posted - 2016.01.17 05:55:51 -
[233] - Quote
Tarek Raimo wrote:Signed
This is a mechanic which encourages creativity and specialised tactics. EVE would be a poorer game without it.
No, it wouldn't. It would bring the playing field of fleets who bring caps and fleets who don't to a more level area. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17107
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Posted - 2016.01.17 08:34:05 -
[234] - Quote
I have no problem with a fleet refitting in space but refitting while in combat is just silly.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
160
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Posted - 2016.01.17 13:30:51 -
[235] - Quote
Luft Reich wrote:[
SSC Person with a good idea, what is this world coming to!
IKR!!!
So Much Space
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Syco Saisima
V.O.I.D. Shadow Cartel
24
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Posted - 2016.01.25 04:28:38 -
[236] - Quote
*Signed*
Refitting on the fly is a good mechanic and adds a level of skill to fights that would be lost if it were removed. It would turn into a game where once you entered Siege/Triage/Bastion you would die guaranteed if the damage was overwhelming without any way for a competent pilot to possibly change that outcome. Same goes for off-grid links alts, i mean what are you even thinking? Removing the ability to boost off grid after you have already nerfed links 3 times in the past makes little sense. The people complaining about off-grid links are either A. too lazy to probe them down or B. people angry with the fact that you can use a neutral alt in highsec wars to boost with making it completely safe unless ganked. An on-grid links ship NEVER survives in any considerable fight because it gets every ewar imaginable thrown on it straight away. Having to probe down links in a fight if they are really that big of an issue adds another good mechanic to the game and the enemy fleet needs to bring a probing ship along with them, especially if the fight is in lowsec since we usually don't probe fleets down for warp in like in null so only use would be for links.
MY SUGGESTIONS FOR A COMPROMISE:
Refitting Changes:
GÇó Leave refitting for subs but add a refit timer giving you 30 seconds? to swap and then locked in for 5 minutes? GÇó For Marauders, FAX and Dreads you would only be able to refit once in Bastion/Triage/Siege GÇó Supers would follow the same rules as subs unless you give them the hinted to 'Modes' then give them a 'refit mode'
Links Changes:
GÇó Once you activate Warfare links it blooms your Signature, see? that easy. |
lord xavier
Hax.
100
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Posted - 2016.02.11 01:24:24 -
[237] - Quote
While I have never been a huge fan of the refitting capability with subcaps. It adds a sense of skill to the game. Being able to refit from EM to Kinetic hardeners when damage changes from one to the other. Being able to change from Short range to Long range weapons. It adds a huge amount of skill to players and makes the field an entirely new thing. Being able to refit just makes fights more fun. If one side is able to refit how they play, and the other is not. You have just won because you spent the extra isk to be prepared.
While it is a double-edged sword. And ships are able to fit warp core stabilizers and warp off. I'd rather see the ability to refit on the fly stay, then given a 60s timer that ultimately would kill this entire mechanic. I'd also like to continue to see uses for all the ships in game. Doing this would render the nestor uselss (lets be honest, its **** aside from this soul purpose.) |
Kon Kre8r
Konz Korp
2
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Posted - 2016.02.16 01:13:03 -
[238] - Quote
EULA specifically says that I am not allowed to properly express my level of disdain/hate for tempting with me refitting first - getting me to fall in love with the new tactical abilities - then threatening to tear it all away.
Guess a simple get to work on something we do want instead. Make the damn map bigger for example.
Give Black Ops ability to run Covert Ops Cloak.
Do something useful! |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1843
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Posted - 2016.02.16 14:30:30 -
[239] - Quote
For those cap pilots planning on quitting because they won't be able to refit during combat - please don't give away or SD your stuff. Lose it in glorious can't refit my shiit combat.
I think CCP is trying to make it so you lose ships instead of fly around invincible. Embrace the glory!!
Remember, if you can lose your ship, damnskippy you can wonk the other guys too. Let's get this done. Explosions for everyone!!!! |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1041
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Posted - 2016.02.16 14:56:44 -
[240] - Quote
-1
Geez, so you won't be able to refit during a weapons timer. That's what? 1 minute? Stop shooting/repping/using offensive mods, wait a minute, refit. What is soooooo hard about that?
Being able to refit on the fly while in the middle of a battle was bad game design, and it was abused. I'm happy they are making capitol ship combat more relevant. Now people will have to really think and consider, "Do we want to drop caps, or just take a huge fleet of battleships with T2 logi?" |
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Creecher Virpio
Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2016.02.17 18:41:03 -
[241] - Quote
ITT: people who have no idea how triage works.
Combat triage is the most fun I'v ever had in eve online, there is an immense amount of pressure. its your job to keep the fleet alive, as well as yourself. You are 100% cut off as soon as you hit that triage button. It's up to you and your refitting abilities, capacitor management, situational awareness (oh ****, slippery pete fleet, better fit some kin/therm) what drug will you pop? Will they have high dps or are you taking neut pressure? BLUE PILL/EXILE OR MINDFLOOD) theyre switiching to me now! time to go max tank! theyre only doing around 35k dps, so i can hold with some moderate overheating, hopefully till i coast out. shoot, they just brought 4+ dreads. rip triage fc.
what will it be like with no refitting?
stupid simple. jump in with 2 adaptives/2 enams, and the rest cap mods.(this is the typical sweet spot with cap/tank) time to go into triage. maybe you knew they were bringing petes, or a t3 fleet? good, you mitigate that with a kin and therm hardener. oh someone came the third party in some other fleet comp? damn, now theyre doing more than 15k dps, so im going to die. oh 2 dreads even though the fleet is leaving me alone? nothing i can do but die.
so much more fun huh? nope. boring, now im just another f1-4 monkey applying reps and hoping the situation doesnt change, cause im stuck in place.
we're slowcats(remote repping combat carriers) and supers op? yes. but, you fixed that. having more supers no longer adds to the safety of the group. now its a matter of who chew through each others supply of fax machines.
so, you've solved the wrecking ball problem. now they have to used vulnerable logistics ships that do not add strength to each other, unless you're trying to wipe the dps off the field first.
but you aren't stopping there. You want to remove one of the last abilities that an individual pilot can truly make a difference with if he has the skill. combat refitting when you are getting primaried by a 75 man fleet is not easy, despite what some people think. You took the same approach to jump mechanics. you nerfed the range, and then also nerfed the rate at which you could travel. this made many players unhappy. you cut the legs off of capitals, and then cut their arms off as well. You could've just done one, and then if it wasn't what you wanted, you couldve added the other portion in as well. (granted, I was not finished my capital train before the phoebe jump changes were deployed)
Now, I agree that carrier and supers reffiting in the new meta could possibly be removed. I 100% agree with removing combat refitting from sub capitals. Capitals are a special class of ship, and should have special abilities. You said you wanted people to be scared of capitals, make them truly something to be feared? then don't make triage just a big logi cruiser that cant move, or dreads an immobile battleship. Triage combat refitting, and by extension dread refitting, are some of the best examples of emergent game-play. Im sure you all have heard of the white whale, or at least any competent triage pilot has. that **** right theres is a prime example of Player skill.
CCP, please reconsider removing combat refitting from fax machines and dreads, or at least wait and see if what you are intending to force onto capital fights happens without removing combat refitting. This is one of the last Place's that true player skills can shine, and eve online would be a much much poorer experience for everyone with its removal. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10868
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Posted - 2016.02.17 19:15:35 -
[242] - Quote
biz Antollare wrote:
this isnt a place to debate the petition. you either sign a petition or you dont.... nice alt post .
...and this isn't the place to hold a petition. This is the Player Features and Ideas Discussion, 'discussion' being the operative word. This is not a place for barleyjacks to pester people to sign a petition (as worthless as it is, in this context, considering the odds of CCP paying heed to this are probably infinitesimal) - this is a discussion forum, not a soapbox.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Faren Shalni
Noble Sentiments Second Empire.
163
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Posted - 2016.02.17 22:20:56 -
[243] - Quote
Creecher Virpio wrote:ITT: people who have no idea how triage works.
Combat triage is the most fun I'v ever had in eve online, there is an immense amount of pressure. its your job to keep the fleet alive, as well as yourself. You are 100% cut off as soon as you hit that triage button. It's up to you and your refitting abilities, capacitor management, situational awareness (oh ****, slippery pete fleet, better fit some kin/therm) what drug will you pop? Will they have high dps or are you taking neut pressure? BLUE PILL/EXILE OR MINDFLOOD) theyre switiching to me now! time to go max tank! theyre only doing around 35k dps, so i can hold with some moderate overheating, hopefully till i coast out. shoot, they just brought 4+ dreads. rip triage fc.
what will it be like with no refitting?
stupid simple. jump in with 2 adaptives/2 enams, and the rest cap mods.(this is the typical sweet spot with cap/tank) time to go into triage. maybe you knew they were bringing petes, or a t3 fleet? good, you mitigate that with a kin and therm hardener. oh someone came the third party in some other fleet comp? damn, now theyre doing more than 15k dps, so im going to die. oh 2 dreads even though the fleet is leaving me alone? nothing i can do but die.
so much more fun huh? nope. boring, now im just another f1-4 monkey applying reps and hoping the situation doesnt change, cause im stuck in place.
we're slowcats(remote repping combat carriers) and supers op? yes. but, you fixed that. having more supers no longer adds to the safety of the group. now its a matter of who chew through each others supply of fax machines.
so, you've solved the wrecking ball problem. now they have to used vulnerable logistics ships that do not add strength to each other, unless you're trying to wipe the dps off the field first.
but you aren't stopping there. You want to remove one of the last abilities that an individual pilot can truly make a difference with if he has the skill. combat refitting when you are getting primaried by a 75 man fleet is not easy, despite what some people think. You took the same approach to jump mechanics. you nerfed the range, and then also nerfed the rate at which you could travel. this made many players unhappy. you cut the legs off of capitals, and then cut their arms off as well. You could've just done one, and then if it wasn't what you wanted, you couldve added the other portion in as well. (granted, I was not finished my capital train before the phoebe jump changes were deployed)
Now, I agree that carrier and supers reffiting in the new meta could possibly be removed. I 100% agree with removing combat refitting from sub capitals. Capitals are a special class of ship, and should have special abilities. You said you wanted people to be scared of capitals, make them truly something to be feared? then don't make triage just a big logi cruiser that cant move, or dreads an immobile battleship. Triage combat refitting, and by extension dread refitting, are some of the best examples of emergent game-play. Im sure you all have heard of the white whale, or at least any competent triage pilot has. that **** right theres is a prime example of Player skill.
CCP, please reconsider removing combat refitting from fax machines and dreads, or at least wait and see if what you are intending to force onto capital fights happens without removing combat refitting. This is one of the last Place's that true player skills can shine, and eve online would be a much much poorer experience for everyone with its removal.
I suggest you put this in the actual thread......highly doubtful they will listen here
So Much Space
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Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
92
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Posted - 2016.02.20 23:45:49 -
[244] - Quote
Creecher Virpio wrote:ITT: people who have no idea how triage works.
Combat triage is the most fun I'v ever had in eve online, there is an immense amount of pressure. its your job to keep the fleet alive, as well as yourself. You are 100% cut off as soon as you hit that triage button. It's up to you and your refitting abilities, capacitor management, situational awareness (oh ****, slippery pete fleet, better fit some kin/therm) what drug will you pop? Will they have high dps or are you taking neut pressure? BLUE PILL/EXILE OR MINDFLOOD) theyre switiching to me now! time to go max tank! theyre only doing around 35k dps, so i can hold with some moderate overheating, hopefully till i coast out. shoot, they just brought 4+ dreads. rip triage fc.
what will it be like with no refitting?
stupid simple. jump in with 2 adaptives/2 enams, and the rest cap mods.(this is the typical sweet spot with cap/tank) time to go into triage. maybe you knew they were bringing petes, or a t3 fleet? good, you mitigate that with a kin and therm hardener. oh someone came the third party in some other fleet comp? damn, now theyre doing more than 15k dps, so im going to die. oh 2 dreads even though the fleet is leaving me alone? nothing i can do but die.
so much more fun huh? nope. boring, now im just another f1-4 monkey applying reps and hoping the situation doesnt change, cause im stuck in place.
we're slowcats(remote repping combat carriers) and supers op? yes. but, you fixed that. having more supers no longer adds to the safety of the group. now its a matter of who chew through each others supply of fax machines.
so, you've solved the wrecking ball problem. now they have to used vulnerable logistics ships that do not add strength to each other, unless you're trying to wipe the dps off the field first.
but you aren't stopping there. You want to remove one of the last abilities that an individual pilot can truly make a difference with if he has the skill. combat refitting when you are getting primaried by a 75 man fleet is not easy, despite what some people think. You took the same approach to jump mechanics. you nerfed the range, and then also nerfed the rate at which you could travel. this made many players unhappy. you cut the legs off of capitals, and then cut their arms off as well. You could've just done one, and then if it wasn't what you wanted, you couldve added the other portion in as well. (granted, I was not finished my capital train before the phoebe jump changes were deployed)
CCP, please reconsider removing combat refitting from fax machines and dreads, or at least wait and see if what you are intending to force onto capital fights happens without removing combat refitting. This is one of the last Place's that true player skills can shine, and eve online would be a much much poorer experience for everyone with its removal.
So much this. |
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