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Gate ganking; no chance at all.

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Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:22:00 - [1] I got ganked by 6 ships at a gate a few days ago, wrecking my newly acquired Myrmidon. I warp in, see a Mega 150 kms away right in my face, and im stupid enough not to react at this point. I right click on my mission location and try to warp to it, and while im at it i get targetted and scrambled. Needless to say, i was shocked, it was my first death to gate gankers, and even if i only saw the mega, 4-5 others ships just appeared by me and started pounding my armor to bits. Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? I find going into low sec exciting if i meet challenging opponents, but being thorn to shreds without even a remote chance of victory isn't really my sport.
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:27:00 - [2] Logging out counters bubbles, that don't work in lowsec anyway. Youd've died no matter what. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:28:00 - [3] If you log out BEFORE they shoot you, you disappear after 30 seconds If they shoot you while your still logged on get the 15 min timer before you disappear The question is, will your ship last the 30 seconds if you log out before your shot Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE LAME
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:42:00 - [4] So i'm lame because i dont want my ship destroyed while i do missions? Well mister honor boy, sorry, but if i could avoid being ganked by a bunch of gate campers who only kill to destroy and not even for sport, i sure as hell would. You go out and get yourself exploded if you wish, from now on ill just do my carebear thing and stay in high sec. And pirates wonder why no one ever comes into low sec anymore... Gate camping is what really destroys low-sec. Gate campers are cowards. I've had a few encounters in low sec, nothing really serious mind you, and i enjoyed it even if i got close to losing a few times, but with the risk of people gate camping i've just turned my nose on it, ill just stick to high sec or 0.0 when i get there.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:42:00 - [5] You did read the red text under your mission location details saying it was in low security space right? Jeez you guys just ignore the warning signs then you complain on the forums about not paying attention Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:43:00 - [6] for asking the question about logging I am personally glad you died. I hope your ship was faction fitted.
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:44:00 - [7] Oh, yes i read the notice, and i've done it quite a few times like i said in my previous post, but still, my opinion holds. I'm not so much whining than i am saying what drives people from low sec. As i said, sport is fun in there, but downright slaughter ain't.
Nash Leigth Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:45:00 - [8] If you get locked and shot at, your ship will not disappear for 15 minutes. Also if you are scramed, which you will be, your ship won't make the emergency warp. So you'll definitely die in this scenario. If you log out before any pew pew, then your ship will disappear in 2 minutes. However they can still lock and scram it as it is aligning and pound on it for those 2 minutes. Note that before you log off, you should turn on your hardeners and such.
Sul Sonic Caldari Mining Bytes Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:52:00 - [9] Downright slaughter is fun for the slaughterer (for some reason I don't understand). I hate gate camps, but what can I say? It's low sec. The sooner you come to understand that when people can destroy you with overwhelming force, they will, the better off you are. -no sig :(
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:08:00 - [10] Don't go to low sec (unless in a ship that can run from a camp).

LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:09:00 - [11] 5 vs 1 = Anyone should die. ...Unless you're running a Vindicator have the sentries on your side and the intention of killing everyone there already (Wave of Mutilation 2 anyone?). Drool. If you are logging out to escape pirates, you really shouldn't be in lowsec to be honest. We podded 5 people the last weekend because when their ship exploded they logged to save their pod. Too bad for them, they're aggroed and we have 15 minutes for our recons to scan them down which is much more time than enough. Back to highsec sucka. ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Gias Tao Oh, yes i read the notice, and i've done it quite a few times like i said in my previous post, but still, my opinion holds. I'm not so much whining than i am saying what drives people from low sec. As i said, sport is fun in there, but downright slaughter ain't. Then bring 4 of your friends and make it sport. I'm sure the campers would love a good fight. Trust me, it gets boring killing shuttles and pods all day. ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:12:00 - [13] Also in the response on how slaughter is bad considering most people will have entered warp by the time you can cargo scan them its better to ***** you open and see what goodies you have inside. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Topaz Skydiver	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:30:00 - [14] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 22/01/2007 18:33:51 EVE pvp doesn't need to be fair. And low sec and 0.0 players don't need a fair EVE to survive. They adapt and try not to get ganked more often than needed, so that their losses don't exceed their income. Demanding always fair pvp engagements is crap. EVE is not a nice world. You need to put the risk to get ganked into your own calculation, it's part of your low sec and 0.0 life. Got ganked yesterday myself, because I brought myself in a situation that would have been avoidable by playing clever. So I got scrambled and killed by a large gang. You maybe don't like it, I think it's fair game. And getting ganked is a lesson. Yesterday it told me again: 'If you continue to play that way, you'll lose a lot more to ganks and you are broke, soon. So wake up ffs!' Indeed I made two bad decisions in a dangerous situation that got me ganked and cost me 50 mil isk. EVE-life and it's good that way.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:31:00 - [15] Question about this. So it happened in low sec 0.1-0.4. You obiusly has senturies on your side. You said one was 150 km away. This guy obvoiusly could not scramble you. But there where 5-6 total? So you had 4-5 ships at close range that locked you down? Sounds like they did a pretty good job getting a lock before you warped and than not dieing to sentury fire. I have never been in this situration but I would think most ships under a BS would wapr before they could get a lock, unless your a noob and have crappy agility I guess. Also in a BS I would think you could at least maybe take one out with the help of senturies before you died. Maybe kill one of the ships scambling you? I have never been in this situation. Main reason I avoid low sec. But soulds like they put alot of effort into this. I know I would have a hard time getting 4-5 people join me in gate camping and than make sure we are all set up properly so we don't die to much otherwise our effort is worthless. Plus I think log offs are pretty lam. It your choise to go into low sec and risk your. Try to find your wait out of the fight use actaully game machnics and not exceptions. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Adoro Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Gias Tao So i'm lame because i dont want my ship destroyed while i do missions? Well mister honor boy, sorry, but if i could avoid being ganked by a bunch of gate campers who only kill to destroy and not even for sport, i sure as hell would. You go out and get yourself exploded if you wish, from now on ill just do my carebear thing and stay in high sec. And pirates wonder why no one ever comes into low sec anymore... Gate camping is what really destroys low-sec. Gate campers are cowards. I've had a few encounters in low sec, nothing really serious mind you, and i enjoyed it even if i got close to losing a few times, but with the risk of people gate camping i've just turned my nose on it, ill just stick to high sec or 0.0 when i get there. Why does a person like you makes a person like me wanne GANK people like you on the lamest ways available? Just so it hurts... Dont log off, dont do missions in low sec if you dont want to die, otherwise cry me a river Btw logging off is even more cowardly... -------- Originally by: ChalSto underestimate us one second and u¦ll mine veldspar in empire for the rest of ur eve-life The LV way
Gioto	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Gias Tao So i'm lame because i dont want my ship destroyed while i do missions? Well mister honor boy, sorry, but if i could avoid being ganked by a bunch of gate campers who only kill to destroy and not even for sport, i sure as hell would. You go out and get yourself exploded if you wish, from now on ill just do my carebear thing and stay in high sec. And pirates wonder why no one ever comes into low sec anymore... Gate camping is what really destroys low-sec. Gate campers are cowards. I've had a few encounters in low sec, nothing really serious mind you, and i enjoyed it even if i got close to losing a few times, but with the risk of people gate camping i've just turned my nose on it, ill just stick to high sec or 0.0 when i get there. i have to agree with wizzkid. if you log your a pansy. fight them up take one or two out while they get you. you have drones. even if you got jammed your drones still attack. that and if you dont want to get ganked, use your map to see how many people are there, and how many ships have been poped in the last hour.
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:44:00 - [18] I get your point about the world being as it is, and yes, i've learned my lesson. I was just saying what drives people from low sec (after reading that thread about pirates not finding a lot of targets anymore) Yes i wont go into low sec alone anymore, and yes if i go ill expect the worst at every turn. As a relatively new player (low 2 mil sp) i dont have all that many contacts and what not (especially being in a mining/mish aimed corp), but when i "get older", ill prolly give this all a fair shot with 5-10 others buddies. And about the ganking, I warped in from another system, i saw a mega in my face but didn't really think it was a gate gank, so i open up my mish info to warp to it, and thats when he scrambled me. I have no idea about the sentry guns, the mega was 155km away i think so since hes the first hitter maybe he was out of range? At any rate, they killed me pretty fast, and i had my filters for sentry guns up so i didnt see anything related to guns on my screen. Nice work really, i dunno if all the others just warped in or were cloaked, but i got owned. As i stated before, im not whinning, just relating my experience and wondering about a way to avoid it really.
The Chauffeur Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:45:00 - [19] when you enter the system, check local. if you see people that aren't in your corp, treat them like they want to kill you. i lived in lowsec for about 4 months and avoided ganks because i was paranoid and cowardly. it works.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:46:00 - [20] Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off.

Romeda Minmatar The White Star Consortium Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:47:00 - [21] This is becoming the problem with piracy and PvP in gerneral, mostly it's done around gates tanking the sentrys. It's not easy to do and it's somtimes hard for the target to stand a fighting chance, when you get too close to the campers at 150km+ they have plenty of time to warp out. This is one reason why low-sec is not much populated or trade hubs have been alowed to grow, and this is keeping most people in empire and causing serverload problems like in Jita, or some moving to aliance controled space. Piracy should not be nerfed but it does need to be taken away from gates as this causes problems for people getting in and out of low-sec systems and moving around systems creating trade and a local economy to grow, and once that happens more people will move out there. I think pirates need to be given the tools and insentives to actively hunt their prey, thus put some effort into piracy and get better rewards as such.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:50:00 - [22] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Khan Eckhawk	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:51:00 - [23] I totally agree with Romeda. I myself want to go to lowsec and I do take the casualities as they come ( i dont' log off), but it really isnt fair 1 against 10. Something needs to be done if the pirates want their targets back like in the "good old days" or whatever.. Also (correct me if i'm wrong) why do you get sec status penalty if you pod a pirate, it's ridiculous. you should be rewarded!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Oh for **s sake what is this bull** your spewing out of your mouth now. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Khan Eckhawk I totally agree with Romeda. I myself want to go to lowsec and I do take the casualities as they come ( i dont' log off), but it really isnt fair 1 against 10. Something needs to be done if the pirates want their targets back like in the "good old days" or whatever.. Also (correct me if i'm wrong) why do you get sec status penalty if you pod a pirate, it's ridiculous. you should be rewarded! You dot get a penalty for killing a pirate. Pirates are people with sec status below -5. Gateganking in low sec is easy mode, it's insanely boring and really just a pasttime of the 'pvp'ers' that can't cut it with the rest. It's terribly unfair on the targets and there's really not much chance for any single target to do anything against it if the campers are any good. However, 'fair' and Eve don't fit in the same sentence, or even the same language. Get used to it, deal with it by grouping up, being smart or simply admitting defeat and working around it. Gatecamping is within the rules of gameplay, logging off is not. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Khan Eckhawk	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:02:00 - [26] Yeh I got yer point, and by no means i'm whining just wondering. Thanks for the sec penalty info. But still I do want to get to the low sec because it's way more exiting, sitting in jita being a target of ridiculous lag just isnt
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:03:00 - [27] Getting ganked sucks. However, bear in mind that's about the only way an 'evil pirate' can actually kill anyone these days, between sentry guns and warp to zero. I remember, back in the day, when you actually had a chance of a "fair" fight. This is, alas, getting less likely. (Of course, by 'fair' fight, I mean: One where you have some chance to win, but they've probably go the edge)
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:10:00 - [28] Nope, 6 vs 1 you have no chance. What's wrong with that?
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:16:00 - [29] Originally by: James Lyrus Getting ganked sucks. However, bear in mind that's about the only way an 'evil pirate' can actually kill anyone these days, between sentry guns and warp to zero. I remember, back in the day, when you actually had a chance of a "fair" fight. This is, alas, getting less likely. (Of course, by 'fair' fight, I mean: One where you have some chance to win, but they've probably go the edge) Everyone has thier own oppinon of a fair fight . Personally I think the WTZ has made fights more fair. Those that want to fight will fight and those that do not have a chance or do not want to fight have better chances to run . Since the WTZ I have actually been doing more pvp. And no I'm not only engaging people that weaker ships than me. I have actually been trying pvp in in a Breacher, yes a Breacher. I havn't killed anything yet but I'm still trying to perfect my set up Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Eitodda Nurr	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic?

Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:19:00 - [31] Logging out prolly isn't an option and as a few of you said it's not within the gameplay, but still, the issue is that gate camping IS what keeps people from going into low-sec. Warp bubbles are bad enough you'd think... And to whoever said i'd have to kill a few at least: No time. I had about 20 secs before i blew up. The first to target me was 150km away, no no go for drones (and my guns while we're at it), and i wasn,t what you'd call prepared for this, so as they all warped in (i presume they warped in, i doubt BS can cloak themselves?) they were all over the place, so it all came crushing down on me, about the only thing i could do was activate my armor repper and activate my hardeners. My drones were still in my bay as i exploded lol I know Eve doesn't have to be fair, that's pretty obvious seeing how they designed the game, i'm just saying that over time, less and less careless players will venture into low-sec, and campers will indeed get bored out of their mind, and see their easy work cut under them.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Eitodda Nurr Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? Sorry but I hate comments like this. What you expect everyone to pay for a second account just to scout ahead for your main But if you mean look at your map and see a gaint reb blob saying there have been 100 kills in the last hour than ok. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Eitodda Nurr Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? And if that recon includes sending an alt through first, that's not a metagame tactic? ------------------- ... [OK] ... zOMG!
Shao Daar United Alliance Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Rod Blaine However, 'fair' and Eve don't fit in the same sentence, or even the same language. Get used to it, deal with it by grouping up, being smart or simply admitting defeat and working around it. Gatecamping is within the rules of gameplay, logging off is not. While I agree that loggin off is a cheap tactic, it IS WITHIN GAME MECHANICS, and this, it's OK from the devs point of view. There's no code anywhere (besides a gamers-moral code)which states that you can't log off... No one has been banned for doing it so far (not even those admiting to doing it), and no one will. So while you have full right to be ****ed about those loggin off, calling it "not within the rules of gameplay" is not true. Note: I don't log off.
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Wizzkidy Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE SMART Here, fixed. Do what is best for you, don't listen to the carebears who cry "mommy he cheats!".
Eitodda Nurr	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Roy Batty68 And if that recon includes sending an alt through first, that's not a metagame tactic? No, it definitely is. I'm a purist, an Iron Man, I don't even use alts to look at the markets in other sectors. A second account is beyond my comprehension, 15 bucks a month is enough to pay. I personally think that when people start metagaming is when games break. I was referring to checking for the number of kills in the last hour, etc., etc.- using the available tools, in other words. The guy I was responding to was saying that since it wasn't a "fair fight"- because it was 5 on 1- that logging off was an okay tactic. I couldn't disagree more...
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Khan Eckhawk I totally agree with Romeda. I myself want to go to lowsec and I do take the casualities as they come ( i dont' log off), but it really isnt fair 1 against 10. Something needs to be done if the pirates want their targets back like in the "good old days" or whatever.. Also (correct me if i'm wrong) why do you get sec status penalty if you pod a pirate, it's ridiculous. you should be rewarded! You dot get a penalty for killing a pirate. Pirates are people with sec status below -5. Gateganking in low sec is easy mode, it's insanely boring and really just a pasttime of the 'pvp'ers' that can't cut it with the rest. It's terribly unfair on the targets and there's really not much chance for any single target to do anything against it if the campers are any good. However, 'fair' and Eve don't fit in the same sentence, or even the same language. Get used to it, deal with it by grouping up, being smart or simply admitting defeat and working around it. Gatecamping is within the rules of gameplay, logging off is not. Maybe not "fair" but certainly avoidable. Scouting, kitted for traveling/possible gate camps, using the in game map to check for pod kills/travel warnings (doable from a 100% safe station), not accepting missions in low sec in the first place, etc are all valid in-game tactics you have available to you. As I understand the OP he was sitting at the low-sec gate UNCLOAKED while he checked his mission details--surely getting the F outta Dodge to a station/random moon would have been a much better choice. I successfully got my RETRIEVER through a gate camped by at least 8 prats in Atlar on Sunday. I knew the risk of jumping through the low sec route so I filled my lows with nano structures and I put on a shield hardener in my only mid slot. These guys were no slouches, either; as soon as I uncloaked to go to warp all of them were targeting me and firing. Sure I only lived with 250 structure by the time I warped but I lived and the measly 350k repair bill was worth it. The other point I'll disagree on is that not all prats are -5.0 and you certainly can lose sec status fighting prats in low sec. Not all prats are even -sec to begin with. ---------- We've all heard that a million monkeys typing will eventually create something intelligent. Thanks to message forums we know that isn't true.
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Snarls McGee Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Khan Eckhawk I totally agree with Romeda. I myself want to go to lowsec and I do take the casualities as they come ( i dont' log off), but it really isnt fair 1 against 10. Something needs to be done if the pirates want their targets back like in the "good old days" or whatever.. Also (correct me if i'm wrong) why do you get sec status penalty if you pod a pirate, it's ridiculous. you should be rewarded! You dot get a penalty for killing a pirate. Pirates are people with sec status below -5. Gateganking in low sec is easy mode, it's insanely boring and really just a pasttime of the 'pvp'ers' that can't cut it with the rest. It's terribly unfair on the targets and there's really not much chance for any single target to do anything against it if the campers are any good. However, 'fair' and Eve don't fit in the same sentence, or even the same language. Get used to it, deal with it by grouping up, being smart or simply admitting defeat and working around it. Gatecamping is within the rules of gameplay, logging off is not. Maybe not "fair" but certainly avoidable. Scouting, kitted for traveling/possible gate camps, using the in game map to check for pod kills/travel warnings (doable from a 100% safe station), not accepting missions in low sec in the first place, etc are all valid in-game tactics you have available to you. As I understand the OP he was sitting at the low-sec gate UNCLOAKED while he checked his mission details--surely getting the F outta Dodge to a station/random moon would have been a much better choice. I successfully got my RETRIEVER through a gate camped by at least 8 prats in Atlar on Sunday. I knew the risk of jumping through the low sec route so I filled my lows with nano structures and I put on a shield hardener in my only mid slot. These guys were no slouches, either; as soon as I uncloaked to go to warp all of them were targeting me and firing. Sure I only lived with 250 structure by the time I warped but I lived and the measly 350k repair bill was worth it. The other point I'll disagree on is that not all prats are -5.0 and you certainly can lose sec status fighting prats in low sec. Not all prats are even -sec to begin with. Nay, i was only checking my mish window to warp the hell outta there. I was still cloaked, its when i started to warp that i got targetted/scrambled and ganked right after. By the way, how the hell can someone target that fast? The targeting prolly only took like 1 second...
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:36:00 - [39] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 19:33:09 For the record, I've lived in 0.0 for three years now, travelled to and from empire through low sec chokes alone more often then i can count, and have NEVER died in a gatecamp. Still, it's a stupid 'tactic', but that stupidity is a result of the reason you're doing it, not from the inherent unfairness of the action. Anyway, to the guy saying logging off is not a sploit, please tell me why there's a logofftimer then ? And why people used to actually get GM warnings for it in the past ? It's purely because CCP cannot police it that they do not call it an exploit, or they would have their support staff die from stress within a few days. If given the possibility, I have no doubt they'd ban every single person that logged off to avoid dying in pvp. And the best thing is that you know it too. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Phant Zon Minmatar No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:36:00 - [40] Sneak into ccp offices, get on a devs 'puter while there in the can, THEN gives yourself 20 billion isk. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outfinanced, and it wasn't fair sience they had t2 bpos, it is your right to gives yourself assloads of isk. See how that works?

Rustimon Polar Bear Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:37:00 - [41] Bring friends. It IS a multiplayer game after all.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:42:00 - [42] Originally by: Eitodda Nurr Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? Yes, it is. Maybe I don't feel like doing recon. Gate campers might have all the time in the world to sit around and do nothing, but I have other things to do, son.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Wizzkidy Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE LAME Sure he is, but who is the lamest? The one who log to save a ship, or the gankbears? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:45:00 - [44] Originally by: Gias Tao By the way, how the hell can someone target that fast? The targeting prolly only took like 1 second... Sensor Boosters - the big blue-ish rings that expand away from the ebil pirate's ship.. Standard issue for most gate campers.. Plus Singal Acquisition V and Leadership V also help..
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Bite me.
Shao Daar United Alliance Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Rod Blaine Anyway, to the guy saying logging off is not a sploit, please tell me why there's a logofftimer then? And why people used to actually get GM warnings for it in the past ? It's purely because CCP cannot police it that they do not call it an exploit, or they would have their support staff die from stress within a few days. If given the possibility, I have no doubt they'd ban every single person that logged off to avoid dying in pvp. And the best thing is that you know it too. Uhm... no, simply put they can't do that. I don't know about the warnings, but currently, I think it's regarded as a tactic within game mechanics. Otherwise people who admit to using it on these forums would have probably been banned long ago. CCP isn't happy with the system they made, true, and are looking into it. But "not happy and about to change" doesn't mean "exploit". And what about the timer? It's there, how is that related to loggin off in combat (which, BTW should be called 'loggin off BEFORE combat')? Again: I do not wish to defend those who log off. I don't, and I think it's cheap. But it is valid. It's just lame. Gatecamps are also lame (not AS lame, but still), just like a few other lame tactics out there.
Aramova Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Gias Tao Nay, i was only checking my mish window to warp the hell outta there. I was still cloaked, its when i started to warp that i got targetted/scrambled and ganked right after. By the way, how the hell can someone target that fast? The targeting prolly only took like 1 second... First of all, your grammar is awful. Second you have zero understanding of even the most basic game mechanics, which leads to your ultimate demise. Most camps employ frigates, which can take less the 0.5 seconds to lock a battleship. They are cheap, easy to replace, fast, and quick to lock. You have no understanding of basic PvP concepts, and I would venture to guess if your corp got a wardec by any decent empire pvp Merc corp, you'd be the first to jump ship. Something you'll have to learn to deal with, if you venture into space below 0.5, you will die sooner or later. If you ignore someone/something, you will die sooner or later If you think that loan ship 300km off the gate is harmless, you will die sooner or later. If you whine on the forums about being stupid, ignoring obvious signs of a hostile camp, don't care enough to check the maps, you will die sooner or later. Have fun in eve, and fly safe! -- Lag is kinda like CYVOK, it kills as many friendlies as hostiles...
Clementina Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:49:00 - [48] Originally by: "Rod Blane If given the possibility, I have no doubt they'd ban every single person that logged off to avoid dying in pvp. And the best thing is that you know it too. If If was a Fifth, we'd all be drunk. If CCP doesn't punish you for doing it, then it is allowed. CCP doesn't punish you for doing it. Therefore it is allowed. QED.
Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: Eitodda Nurr Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? Yes, it is. Maybe I don't feel like doing recon. Gate campers might have all the time in the world to sit around and do nothing, but I have other things to do, son. You don't have 30 seconds to check the map for destroyed ships? Why don't you buy a few billion ISK on E-bay while you're at it, since getting ISK takes your precious time ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai
podadot	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Wizzkidy If you log out BEFORE they shoot you, you disappear after 30 seconds If they shoot you while your still logged on get the 15 min timer before you disappear The question is, will your ship last the 30 seconds if you log out before your shot Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE LAME lol, logging off is lame, 5 v 1 is honorable! adapt or quit eve and give me your stuff. i am 1337!!!!

Fleet Command	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:57:00 - [51] welcome to eve bring friends
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Forum Joe Originally by: Wizzkidy Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE SMART Here, fixed. Do what is best for you, don't listen to those who don't exploit". Fixed you alt tard Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Rod Blaine Gatecamping is within the rules of gameplay, logging off is not. Any chance of linking factual reference to that statement? Just how is logging out of eve against the tos/eula? As far as im concerned i/everybody else is free to log in/out as they wish. As for fair, that i know, why the constant calls are easy to ignore ______
Jarjar exscape corporation	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Wizzkidy Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE LAME Sure he is, but who is the lamest? The one who log to save a ship, or the gankbears? The one who logs off, is there really any contest? Exploiting to save ISK or following a career advertised on the original game box...
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Aramova Originally by: Gias Tao Nay, i was only checking my mish window to warp the hell outta there. I was still cloaked, its when i started to warp that i got targetted/scrambled and ganked right after. By the way, how the hell can someone target that fast? The targeting prolly only took like 1 second... First of all, your grammar is awful. Second you have zero understanding of even the most basic game mechanics, which leads to your ultimate demise. Most camps employ frigates, which can take less the 0.5 seconds to lock a battleship. They are cheap, easy to replace, fast, and quick to lock. You have no understanding of basic PvP concepts, and I would venture to guess if your corp got a wardec by any decent empire pvp Merc corp, you'd be the first to jump ship. Something you'll have to learn to deal with, if you venture into space below 0.5, you will die sooner or later. If you ignore someone/something, you will die sooner or later If you think that loan ship 300km off the gate is harmless, you will die sooner or later. If you whine on the forums about being stupid, ignoring obvious signs of a hostile camp, don't care enough to check the maps, you will die sooner or later. Have fun in eve, and fly safe! God i love people who take posts the way they want to. Trolls have to live too i guess though, and to answer your question, since you're not brilliant enough to deduce it by yourself, i am a 2mil sp player, so yeah i don't know the game to my finger tips. As i've also previously stated, the guy who targetted me first (for the scramble) was in a Megathron (It's a battleship by the way my little genius friend) and thats why i was wondering about the targetting speed. Originally by: Aramova If you think that Loan ship 300km off the gate is harmless, you will die sooner or later. Who's grammar is awful?
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:09:00 - [56] Lol, and you pirates wonder where all your targets have gone in lowsec? Reap what you sow my friends, reap what you sow. And all the editing of other people's quotes? Makes you all look like 9 year olds. Well done, you must be so proud of your logic, analysis, objectivity, reasoning abilities and maturity, whichever side of this argument you're on. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:09:00 - [57] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 20:07:11 C'mon Galk, you know the situation as much as I do. Logging off to avoid combat/death in combat used to be punishable in the conditios referred to here, and was actually punished by CCP in the past. Then CCP met some smartasses, implemented another half-assed 'solution', got it's support staff horribly overworked and queued up the wazoo and as a result they all of a sudden can't decide when people have a right to log and when not anymore. We know what they deal is, they know what the deal is, the only ones that don't know what the deal is is these nubs that feel that the risk of loss entitles you to break the intended rules of the game. So yes, you are right, and wrong at the same time, and you know it. We'll see who has the last laugh here, these idiots or me. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Rod Blaine C'mon Galk, you know the situation as much as I do. Logging off to avoid combat/death in combat used to be punishable in the conditios referred to here, and was actually punished by CCP in the past. Then CCP met some smartasses, implemented another half-assed 'solution', got it's support staff horribly overworked and queued up the wazoo and as a result they all of a sudden can't decide when people have a right to log and when not anymore. We know what they deal is, they know what the deal is, the only ones that don't know what the deal is is these nubs that feel that the risk of loss entitles you to break the intended rules of the game. So yes, you are right, and wrong at the same time, and you know it. Rod, is my memory right when I say that the logging off was only punishable back before the existence of warp disruptor bubbles? I could be wrong here, but either way, I seem to remember that the rule saying that logging off to avoid combat wasn't allowed didn't last very long and that once it became apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Fenderson The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:14:00 - [59] just for the sake of clarifying this particular situation from the OP: logging off would not have saved you. Logging off prevents bubbles from doing their job, but has no effect on ship mounted warp scramblers/disruptors. If you logged off, they would have killed you just as easily as they did when you attempted to warp. Logging will save you from getting an agro timer (if you log while stil cloaked) but if you are able to warp away while logged you could have just as easily warped away without logging. Just keep this in mind for future reference. If you log off and your not in a bubble, your just making yourself look stupid. got new corp, need new sig. mail me ingame.
Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:14:00 - [60] Edited by: Alumion on 22/01/2007 20:14:41 Originally by: Gias Tao God i love people who take posts the way they want to. Trolls have to live too i guess though, and to answer your question, since you're not brilliant enough to deduce it by yourself, i am a 2mil sp player, so yeah i don't know the game to my finger tips. As i've also previously stated, the guy who targetted me first (for the scramble) was in a Megathron (It's a battleship by the way my little genius friend) and thats why i was wondering about the targetting speed. A 2mil SP player is not new. The reason you are not familiar with PvP tactics and procedures is obviously because you don't PvP. Not that this makes you a bad man, but it definitely is a big problem if you happen to be forced to PvP. There are modules that boost targeting speed. Thus it's possible for even a battleship to lock anything in a few seconds. Originally by: Fenderson Logging will save you from getting an agro timer (if you log while stil cloaked) but if you are able to warp away while logged you could have just as easily warped away without logging. This is not completely true, many gatecamps have sensorboosted tackler BCs/BSs which can catch all but the most agile ships ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai

Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:23:00 - [61] Thank you Alumion, that's the kind of answer i wanted in the first place. And yes, i am not experienced in PvP, i don't have a lot of playtime, so i mostly do missions/help corp with mining ops when i can, and as i stated before, having my first gate gank, i learned my lesson. Geez, who ain't ignorant/imprudent once in a while? Just want to highlight the fact that this wasn't a "NERF GATE CAMPS I LOST MY SHIP!!!" thread, i just stated what happened to me and was curious if something could've saved me. Losing ships happens.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:23:00 - [62] Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Alumion A 2mil SP player is not new. The reason you are not familiar with PvP tactics and procedures is obviously because you don't PvP. Not that this makes you a bad man, but it definitely is a big problem if you happen to be forced to PvP. There are modules that boost targeting speed. Thus it's possible for even a battleship to lock anything in a few seconds. I'd imagine him to be around 2 months old, if that. Remember new players START with around 800k SPs now. Pump learning early and train skills which your stats heavily favor and I could imagine a very young (new) player to have 2 mil SP in short order. ---------- We've all heard that a million monkeys typing will eventually create something intelligent. Thanks to message forums we know that isn't true.
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:25:00 - [64] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... I don't know about pirates, but this seems like a very interesting notion.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:29:00 - [65] Originally by: Gias Tao Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... I don't know about pirates, but this seems like a very interesting notion. And Then hauling becomes 100% safe unless I feel like training for a dread Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Marketcheck2	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:29:00 - [66] This is what it sounds like, when bears cry. Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? I find going into low sec exciting if i meet challenging opponents, but being thorn to shreds without even a remote chance of victory isn't really my sport. Try scouting in fast ship first.
Liquid Vision Caldari Liquid Research	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Isn't griefing a bannable offense? Thanks for finally giving me my damn picture!
Fenderson The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:31:00 - [68] PS something about this situation makes no sense. If the pirates were hanging out nearby to warp on top of you, they shouldnt have been able to get to you that quickly (assuming you did not decloak b4 trying to warp) if they were cloaked in battleships they would not have been able to target you quick enough, even with sensor boosters since the cloak penalty actually prevents you from initiating a lock for a certain amount of time. I suppose if they were hanging out really really close to the gate and warp to you immediately they may have been able to pull it off, but the timing would have to be really really good. got new corp, need new sig. mail me ingame.
Khan Eckhawk	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:34:00 - [69] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... Couldn't agree more. I just hope from the bottom of my heart that ccp comes in a good solution with these issues. Also about the sec penalty, it really should be something like -2.0 when you get a reward from podding a pirate pc, like the limit is when you cant no-more enter hisec if you dont want to be concorded.
Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:34:00 - [70] Edited by: Alumion on 22/01/2007 20:31:06 Originally by: Shadowsword I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... Ships did not got their HP tripled, range doubled. Your idea is overkill. The scramble sounds like an interesting idea, but I'll waot for someone with more insight to gatecamping to comment on that ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai

Fenderson The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Gias Tao Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... I don't know about pirates, but this seems like a very interesting notion. And Then hauling becomes 100% safe unless I feel like training for a dread Hauling is already (almost) 100% safe if you fit stabs. Anyway, its an interesting idea but i dont think it would have the intended effect. Carebears will always be afraid of greifers, and there will always be alot of people who want to play eve in "pvp off" mode, even though there is no such thing. got new corp, need new sig. mail me ingame.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:36:00 - [72] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin And Then hauling becomes 100% safe unless I feel like training for a dread You haven't seen many modern gate camps, have you? When you have 5-10 pirates, a fast-locking battleship take the aggro, and the others kill you. Even with 3*sentries dps they have at least 20-30 secs before it must warp away. All theses changes would do is make it risky for the pirates, give them a small but signifiant chance to be scrambled when they need to warp out. It might make pirates more selective about their choices of targets, hitting only high-value haulers, but would that be a bad thing? Or do you prefer a deserted low-sec? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:36:00 - [73] Originally by: Liquid Vision Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Isn't griefing a bannable offense? According to the forums anything that isn't mining is griefing Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
CrazyCoolie	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:37:00 - [74] Sorry for the noob question. Can't you just jump back through the gate and avoid the problem all together.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:39:00 - [75] Camping spawning point is a bad excuse for piracy or PVP. It would be nice if our ships have jump drives and could randomly spawn somewhere in the system. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:40:00 - [76] Quote: Plus I think log offs are pretty lam. It your choise to go into low sec and risk your. I am sure the other side thinks the gate camping (offering next to no chance to defending yourself, is just as lame. Guess we are all at a stalemate. I just find it humorous that gate campers dance around chanting "I can do this because CCP doesn't have a rule against it and the game allows it, so get lost noob". It's about time the empire peeps threw it back at the gate campers. <dance around> We can log off to avoid your lame gate camp because we can and the game allows it, so get lost twit" There. Now both sides have ranted. Thread done?
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:41:00 - [77] My alt just got blown up in a 0.4 by a CBC and two battleships. None of them suffered unduly, since amarrian sentries are the easiest to tank, and with three such ships there's no real danger to them. It was my own dumb fault for flying unescorted, and I took the risk willingly (I was their second kill, so the map didn't show the camp yet), but for those who don't know what to expect in low-sec, it seems very cruel. The problem is organization. There's a seemingly endless supply of bored high-SP players with lots of good hardware that travel around in groups of five or six. Then there's a large population of newer players who can barely afford the T1 cruisers and BCs they fly, who are trying to run missions that occasionally ask them to earn their 400k by flying into a low-sec system. The fights between these two groups are very one-sided. Sure, if you could muster a team of eight or ten to go through every gate, you'd be safe from such camps most of the time, but then the gankers could just hold their fire and not engage, so you're force either to take the sec hit and be torn apart by sentries to start the fight or let them get away. Mission runners can't buy one battleship and do their job without risk. Low-sec gate gankers can buy one battleship and do their job without risk. The sentries are a known commodity, and anyone with the organization and skillpoints to beat them can make more money, get more killmails and run less risk by pirating two jumps over instead. What's needed is an incentive (besides boredom) to engage these guys and wipe them out. It would only take a few losses to discourage most of the gate gankers in empire, since their profits are nowhere near high enough to replace an equipped Astarte every week. They face no real competition, except for their own boredom. A proper bounty hunting dynamic would fix this.
Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:42:00 - [78] Edited by: Alumion on 22/01/2007 20:41:36 Originally by: Vladikov Orrico I just find it humorous that gate campers dance around chanting "I can do this because CCP doesn't have a rule against it and the game allows it, so get lost noob". I just find it humorous that gate campers dance around chanting "I can do this because CCP doesn't have a rule against it and the game allows it, so get lost noob". Edited by: Alumion on 22/01/2007 20:38:47 The difference is that most gatecamps can easily be evaded with a little bit of caution ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Gias Tao So i'm lame because i dont want my ship destroyed while i do missions? Well mister honor boy, sorry, but if i could avoid being ganked by a bunch of gate campers who only kill to destroy and not even for sport, i sure as hell would. You go out and get yourself exploded if you wish, from now on ill just do my carebear thing and stay in high sec. And pirates wonder why no one ever comes into low sec anymore... Gate camping is what really destroys low-sec. Gate campers are cowards. I've had a few encounters in low sec, nothing really serious mind you, and i enjoyed it even if i got close to losing a few times, but with the risk of people gate camping i've just turned my nose on it, ill just stick to high sec or 0.0 when i get there. Never fly a ship you cannot afford to loose. PS: your not your ship. I once had a sig...it deleted
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:43:00 - [80] Originally by: CrazyCoolie Sorry for the noob question. Can't you just jump back through the gate and avoid the problem all together. You need to be within 2500m to jump throught a gate, and when you jump in a system you're always 10? km away. Closing the range before you're webbified isn't a problem for frigs, intercpetors and a few other ships, but most heavy ships could as well be a light year away, for all the good it'll do them... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.

Solbright	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:46:00 - [81] Logging off while still cloaked at a gate performs an auto-warp that is EW immune. Pies hate it. However, they can still target you and shoot while the warp is aligning. On a BC/BS that can be too long so fitting it to nanoship specs is prolly wise. If you don't want to wait for the campers to leave the gate then you could use stabs. Or try for fitting a MWD, a shield tank and nanoship dash back to the gate instead of trying to warp out. The campers can't follow for a minute if they have been shooting. On the question of fast targetting, that is something that PVPers get sorted quite early on. Aside from the basic skill there is both mid and low slot modules that boost targetting speed.
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:51:00 - [82] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. PvP doenst have to be fair.....the logoff exploit need to go I once had a sig...it deleted
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:53:00 - [83] Originally by: Romeda This is becoming the problem with piracy and PvP in gerneral, mostly it's done around gates tanking the sentrys. It's not easy to do and it's somtimes hard for the target to stand a fighting chance, when you get too close to the campers at 150km+ they have plenty of time to warp out. This is one reason why low-sec is not much populated or trade hubs have been alowed to grow, and this is keeping most people in empire and causing serverload problems like in Jita, or some moving to aliance controled space. Piracy should not be nerfed but it does need to be taken away from gates as this causes problems for people getting in and out of low-sec systems and moving around systems creating trade and a local economy to grow, and once that happens more people will move out there. I think pirates need to be given the tools and insentives to actively hunt their prey, thus put some effort into piracy and get better rewards as such. Well it only happens to those who come unpreparied, and it should tell you one important thing about eve-----its not a single player game I once had a sig...it deleted
Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:55:00 - [84] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader None of them suffered unduly, since amarrian sentries are the easiest to tank Sorry for not saying anything constructive about the rest of your post, but every sentry gun has the same stats. ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:56:00 - [85] Inadequate responce and reasoning in this day and age is hardly something you would associate with ccp surely You know as well as i there have been certain issues in the past that they used to care to claritfy in no uncertain terms there position on, now the situtation seems to be to let it ride, toss it to the wolves to draw judgement months/years down the line with a half baked fix pleasing nobody. Im being totaly honest when i say though that i had no idea about that one, i think in truth the hysteria never surrounded the issue the way it does now. Certainly not when i was about anyway. ______
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:59:00 - [86] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Bite me. You know what, Rod isn't the only one that is going to GRIEF the HELL out of you you ** your a ** ** * and thats about all i'm going to say, time to break out the locater agents tbh. expect people to come after you cause your a ***** **
Hauler McTote	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:59:00 - [87] Quote: Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? Most reconning is using alts or n00b alts, so it's metagaming anyway.
Gias Tao Gallente Lensmen	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Fenderson PS something about this situation makes no sense. If the pirates were hanging out nearby to warp on top of you, they shouldnt have been able to get to you that quickly (assuming you did not decloak b4 trying to warp) if they were cloaked in battleships they would not have been able to target you quick enough, even with sensor boosters since the cloak penalty actually prevents you from initiating a lock for a certain amount of time. I suppose if they were hanging out really really close to the gate and warp to you immediately they may have been able to pull it off, but the timing would have to be really really good. As i stated, the main target wasn't cloaked, he just targetted me as i decloaked to warp (i thought i had time to warp before he could target/scramble me), and about the rest, i was mainly focused on the main target, so i didn't really make out what happened, but my first guess is they put some marker a few 100 km's away and warped in as soon as i came into the system. It seemed like a very well organised group, so yeah, timing was nearly perfect. Once again, they did a fine job, but it's still a gate gank, so yeah, minor effort.
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:10:00 - [89] Edited by: Jezala on 22/01/2007 21:07:40 There are a few pro-active measures you can take to avoid getting caught at the gates by pirates in low-sec. GET INTEL First, park your BC or BS at a high-sec station adjacent to the low-sec entry point. Grab a shuttle and take a peak and see who's in the low sec system. Before you jump across, did you notice any ships hanging around the gate? Could they be a scout for whoever is next door? Do a show info on those pilots. NPC corps are typically scout alts. When you jump across, what do you see? Mega at 150km is a dead give away and local people with negative security status are also indicators that it might not be safe. TRAVELING CONFIGURATION Second thing you can do is fit your ship with stabs and inertial stabalizers. Hopefully the system your mission is in has a station where you can dock and swap out the warp core stabs and inertial stabilizers for your mission setup. Learn to setup a traveling configuration and store the mods for your mission configuration in your cargohold. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Khan Eckhawk Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Apocryphai ...apparent that there was no way CCP could enforce this they dropped it. Yes. it is quite evident that CCP doesn't like it, but doesn't want to try to forbid it because they know they can't. Anyway, something need to be done about low-sec gate camps: by the same logic as why CCP doesn't want people logging off in battle, it's evident they didn't want piracy to become almost exclusively gate camping (that's why they put sentries), but sentries upgrades have been virtually non-existant, compared to ship upgrades. An hyperion with a single armor rep can perma-tank sentries in low-sec, and that's just ludicrous... I say sentries need their DPS tripled, their range doubled, and each sentry having a 5% chance to warp scramble their target. Once you get rid of gate camps, empire dwellers will start repopulating low-sec, and belt piracy will become viable once again... Couldn't agree more. I just hope from the bottom of my heart that ccp comes in a good solution with these issues. Also about the sec penalty, it really should be something like -2.0 when you get a reward from podding a pirate pc, like the limit is when you cant no-more enter hisec if you dont want to be concorded. Before you get all excited, think about freighters in lowsec being untouchable. Kinda negates the point of lowsec don't you think. Gimme a break, lowsec SHOULD be a place where you have escorts or groups of friends nearby. Jesus. ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.

Minsc Gallente A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:26:00 - [91] Originally by: Gias Tao Originally by: Fenderson PS something about this situation makes no sense. If the pirates were hanging out nearby to warp on top of you, they shouldnt have been able to get to you that quickly (assuming you did not decloak b4 trying to warp) if they were cloaked in battleships they would not have been able to target you quick enough, even with sensor boosters since the cloak penalty actually prevents you from initiating a lock for a certain amount of time. I suppose if they were hanging out really really close to the gate and warp to you immediately they may have been able to pull it off, but the timing would have to be really really good. As i stated, the main target wasn't cloaked, he just targetted me as i decloaked to warp (i thought i had time to warp before he could target/scramble me), and about the rest, i was mainly focused on the main target, so i didn't really make out what happened, but my first guess is they put some marker a few 100 km's away and warped in as soon as i came into the system. It seemed like a very well organised group, so yeah, timing was nearly perfect. Once again, they did a fine job, but it's still a gate gank, so yeah, minor effort. If it took them 20 seconds to kill you you very likely could have mwd'd or ab'd back to the gate to warp back out. Then, knowing that they are there could have fitted your ship for fast/safe travel with nano's and WCS. Just keep your other mods in your cargo, dock at the station once you're in the mission system and refit. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:53:00 - [92] Originally by: Gias Tao Oh, yes i read the notice, and i've done it quite a few times like i said in my previous post, but still, my opinion holds. I'm not so much whining than i am saying what drives people from low sec. As i said, sport is fun in there, but downright slaughter ain't. He means its ok if hes in the gank pack, but not if hes getting ganked, logging will get nerfed eventually given how annoying/common its becoming but i fear the side effects will suck.
matty01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.22 22:00:00 - [93] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Originally by: Gias Tao Oh, yes i read the notice, and i've done it quite a few times like i said in my previous post, but still, my opinion holds. I'm not so much whining than i am saying what drives people from low sec. As i said, sport is fun in there, but downright slaughter ain't. He means its ok if hes in the gank pack, but not if hes getting ganked, logging will get nerfed eventually given how annoying/common its becoming but i fear the side effects will suck. tbh i dont' care about any side effects from any logging nerf, its so damn annoying and becoming the norm...i'll take whatever if it means no more loggers __________________________
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.22 22:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: James Lyrus Getting ganked sucks. However, bear in mind that's about the only way an 'evil pirate' can actually kill anyone these days, between sentry guns and warp to zero. I remember, back in the day, when you actually had a chance of a "fair" fight. This is, alas, getting less likely. (Of course, by 'fair' fight, I mean: One where you have some chance to win, but they've probably go the edge) Everyone has thier own oppinon of a fair fight . Personally I think the WTZ has made fights more fair. Those that want to fight will fight and those that do not have a chance or do not want to fight have better chances to run . Since the WTZ I have actually been doing more pvp. And no I'm not only engaging people that weaker ships than me. I have actually been trying pvp in in a Breacher, yes a Breacher. I havn't killed anything yet but I'm still trying to perfect my set up Them you're the exception. I've got a whole load of pirate dropping by in lowsec/0.0, who engage what they _can_ kill, but never anything that might be a challenge.
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.01.22 22:15:00 - [95] Originally by: Gias Tao I got ganked by 6 ships at a gate a few days ago, wrecking my newly acquired Myrmidon. I warp in, see a Mega 150 kms away right in my face, and im stupid enough not to react at this point. I right click on my mission location and try to warp to it, and while im at it i get targetted and scrambled. Needless to say, i was shocked, it was my first death to gate gankers, and even if i only saw the mega, 4-5 others ships just appeared by me and started pounding my armor to bits. Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? I find going into low sec exciting if i meet challenging opponents, but being thorn to shreds without even a remote chance of victory isn't really my sport. You had no intel on the other side of the gate, and you ran the risk anyway. Nothing to be ashamed of, but nothing to make a thread over either really.
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.22 23:09:00 - [96] Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: Plus I think log offs are pretty lam. It your choise to go into low sec and risk your. I am sure the other side thinks the gate camping (offering next to no chance to defending yourself, is just as lame. Guess we are all at a stalemate. I just find it humorous that gate campers dance around chanting "I can do this because CCP doesn't have a rule against it and the game allows it, so get lost noob". It's about time the empire peeps threw it back at the gate campers. <dance around> We can log off to avoid your lame gate camp because we can and the game allows it, so get lost twit" There. Now both sides have ranted. Thread done? I see I'm not the only one who understood this :) Three years for instas, how long for this one? My bet is on two years :) /me dances around TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! "I AM RIGHT!" "YOU ARE WRONG!" , For TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's january 2009 boys ! TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! USuCk LOlOlOl11LolOlO11 n0oB URSTUPID ch3at3Rz crapbear, for TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's EvE Online Baby ! TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! The best PvP MMO ! TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Next month the mods will insta forum ban anyone using the word "logoffksi", yeah ! TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! In six months if you type "logoffski" in a chat window, you will be concordokken! TWWOOOO YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! /me goes way, still dancing and singing, and, most of all : laugthing...
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.23 01:01:00 - [97] Originally by: Gias Tao Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? No, you'll still be a n00b. Don't use exploits to cover your lack of planning. Use the map to check for ships destroyed in the last hour and scout the gate in a shuttle first.
Jena Zarkin	Posted - 2007.01.23 01:38:00 - [98] Edited by: Jena Zarkin on 23/01/2007 01:35:34 I don't think gate camping is any more or less lame than logging really, they're both pretty lame and noobish. But, if gate camping causes long term harm to the server prosperity through lack of expansion, then I have to say that gate camping is bad. Logging only effects the logger... And about the people saying "fair doesn't belong in Eve" that's a bunch of BS. Eve is a game, and so it mandatorily has fairness built into it. Any opinion that Eve is isn't supposed to be fair is just plain ignorant. Game balance is a sort of fairness. Game mechanics are a means of fairness. The in-game backstory is a part of fairness. Even your player account is a part of keeping Eve fair. Eve is just as fair as any other mmo, in fact it's way more fair than some I've played. Jena
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:26:00 - [99] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Before you get all excited, think about freighters in lowsec being untouchable. Kinda negates the point of lowsec don't you think. Gimme a break, lowsec SHOULD be a place where you have escorts or groups of friends nearby. Jesus. If freighters could enter low-sec, what would that change? You're not ganking freighters in low-sec righ now... Even with stronger sentries, a lone freighter would be dead meat to a group of smart pirates. Ever heard of bumping? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Gias Tao Yes i wont go into low sec alone anymore, and yes if i go ill expect the worst at every turn. That's the spirit. Lowsec or 0.0 isn't that dangerous when you learn how to avoid gate camps. Sure, 5 vs 1 isn't much of a sport but I bet they spent some time getting that gank and you could have avoided it too with some experience of lowsec.

Mallikanth Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:46:00 - [101] First of all remember this is a GAME. A Very good Game at that. I've lost ships in low sec & it hurts (One of the reasons I like the game is the risk/reward). Logging off is lame (and that's coming from a like me ). Although put in harsher tones and language already, you really need to get a grip and deal with it. Then you can continue to enjoy the game. Imagine if you walked down a hypothetically lawless street alone and got jumped on by 5 guys would you post an advert in the local paper saying this was unfair as you were only ready to fight one of them? Imagine the reaction! Enjoy the game (I do even when I die (ok, after I calm down I do )) The difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong, it usually turns out to be impossible
Sif D'Andromeda	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:55:00 - [102] Edited by: Sif D''Andromeda on 23/01/2007 09:52:04 My first view of EVE was over a friend's shoulder as he got ganked by a gate camp... then I watched as he got some friends and went back. Oh look all the pirates run away. And thats happened to me, went through gate into .3 and hit a camp. Got blown came back with friends and pirates ran away PDQ. Gate camps from my point of view are for the poorer PvPers who can't do real PvP they wait in one space to kill people who have no realistic chance. If the 'good' PvPers want more targets in Low Sec they ought to do something about the gate camps! -edit-: for spelling/punctuation.
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:58:00 - [103] Originally by: Gias Tao As i stated, the main target wasn't cloaked, he just targetted me as i decloaked to warp (i thought i had time to warp before he could target/scramble me), and about the rest, i was mainly focused on the main target, so i didn't really make out what happened, but my first guess is they put some marker a few 100 km's away and warped in as soon as i came into the system. It seemed like a very well organised group, so yeah, timing was nearly perfect. Once again, they did a fine job, but it's still a gate gank, so yeah, minor effort. So why would you go to low-sec (which would then be the same as high-sec) if there are no extra rewards because of risk? Not to mention eveyone would be over all profitable systems because there is no risk... making everything unprofitable again..
Lost Ninja	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Mallikanth Imagine if you walked down a hypothetically lawless street alone and got jumped on by 5 guys would you post an advert in the local paper saying this was unfair as you were only ready to fight one of them? Imagine the reaction! The reaction would be a letter to the MP or local political representative or failing that someone like the UN Deploring the situation. Low sec is not supposed to be No Sec. Personally I'd add a concord rapid reaction force that warps/jumps into a low sec gate if people are attacked there. Lower the sec the longer it takes. That then hangs around a bit. Before warping off somewhere else. bonus points for killing concord. It'd add realism, for a start, it would also stop all but the most powerful campers from tanking the guns and give some illusion of security. It would also mean that especailly in.4 and .3 you'd have a chance at getting through after you were killed/podded once. .2 & .1 you might have to wait longer but it'd still be doable. Personally, and I do mean that, I'd add sentries and concord presense on the gates leading to and from 0.0 (they might be there now never been to 0.0 ) making it generally safe to leave secured space and enter nul sec. Again you could explain it realistically as concord's continuing effort to stamp out outlaws entering space where concord is supposedly maintaining security. Then add rogue jump gates, run by the various rogue states like Sansha's that will allow PvPers to enter leave low sec without crossing swords with concord. Carebears & PvEers would have every chance of entering/leaving lowsec with some safety, they'd also have more chance of moving between empire and 0.0. But still without absolute security. Good PvPers would have the chance to gank, kill, steal or whatever it is that floats their boats but wouldn't have it all their own way. _________________________________________________________
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:13:00 - [105] Gate camps in itself are needed. Alliances need that ability to be able to control their space. But that is 0.0 space. I am not sure lowsec gatecamps are 'needed'. No territory to control, so why would they specifically need the ability to camp gates? Lowsec pirates need the ability to kill people, which is not necessarily the same as being able to camp lowsec gates. And without gatecamps in lowsec, there would undoubtedly be more people around, so pirates could survive on belt piracy rather than gatecamping. I'd like to see an experiment where the strength of sentries in lowsec was increased significantly in say 1 or 2 regions to make gatecamps non-viable. Then see if population rose to an extent where belt piracy would become viable again.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:19:00 - [106] That leaves mission runners too safe, so we'd need a nerf to their safespots again. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:23:00 - [107] Originally by: Rod Blaine That leaves mission runners too safe, so we'd need a nerf to their safespots again. Missionrunners with half a brain are safe already from gatecamps. Unless you bust their safe of course (which is still possible, a corpmate of mine lost a BS last week to pirates busting his mission). If you have a designated system where you do missions, just have a few alts around to keep tabs on gates for camps.
Blindscythe	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:39:00 - [108] Here's my 0.02isk. Logging is fine. Personally I don't use it, but if players can see the opportunity to use it in lo-sec, then surely they may feel more confident in exploring the pirate infested systems? Secondly, gatecamping is what seperates the hi-sec from the lo-sec, period. Without gatecamps, life really would be pretty easy. Yeah being ganked isn't 'fun' but you have the option to go back with your 'MMO' buddies and cause some real harm, if you have the knowhow. To remove threat, imo, is game breaking. Sorry if this came off as 'narky' but seriously, enough is enough. This is Eve.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:54:00 - [109] Your 'chance' to escape gatecamps happens when you fit out a travel setup on your ship and check you planned route for large numbers of ships/kills with the map filters. If you are moving something so expensive that this is too risky then bring a friend to scout. If you put in the same amount of effort to avoid a camp that a group of pirates are to set one up then they will never catch you.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:00:00 - [110] Originally by: Rod Blaine That leaves mission runners too safe, so we'd need a nerf to their safespots again. The missions are fine i got ganked by 2 BS and a BC in my raven in low sec .I said gf in local they worked hard they got their kill. To the OP get back to WOW.Or if you like eve improve, and become smarter.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:23:00 - [111] Next tyme just learn to avoid teh camp (to the OP). USe a single cloak in one of your high slots and be carefull and you will escape 99% of time. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Oz Borne	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:24:00 - [112] rabble rabble rabble use a scout alt in a shuttle.
Captain Blart Hideous Mutant Freekz	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:39:00 - [113] Edited by: Captain Blart on 23/01/2007 11:39:43 Edited by: Captain Blart on 23/01/2007 11:38:39 Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? You've got to love those internet bullies, I guess you feel strong behind a computer playing Eve online for 3 years ? Lol, get real How about 3 or 4 real life bullies beatin' the crap out of your nerdy a*** just because they can ? How's that for unfair ?
Oz Borne	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:44:00 - [114] Edited by: Oz Borne on 23/01/2007 11:42:17 then i'd send in a really fast midget to see if they were stood outside my door
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:46:00 - [115] OP boy did you mess up. Look what you done, gave all the gate campers, anti log off, and improve low-sec so I can get rich crowd another thread to *** in. To all the others, this is why low sec is empty.... And then there are the "I want to join the 23 club" crowd. Sorry its full at the moment come back next year, or place your name and e-mail on the list and we will get back to you. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:52:00 - [116] Originally by: Rod Blaine That leaves mission runners too safe, so we'd need a nerf to their safespots again. God forbid you'd have to actually put some efforts to find a mission runner location...Like it is right now... If mission runners feel reasonnably safe, you'll start seeing CNRs and gist tanks used in low sec, instead of the usual T2, which mean that mission runners kills, while few and far between, would be more rewarding for the pirates... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:53:00 - [117] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/01/2007 18:48:00 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. I'm going to take down your name, and at every opportunity I get grief the hell out of you. How's that for unfair ? Im with Rod on this one. Noted. CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:14:00 - [118] Its always fun to read thise posts, on the one hand you have the people putting people down with stuff like "if you dont want to fight dont go to lowsec NOOB" and onthe other you have the people whining that there are too few people in lowsec and that CCP should force people out into lowsec. The amusing point is that more often than not the two types of posts are usually written by the same people. To the OP, sadly you were in all probability a gonner the moment you went through the gate, logging off, warping or whatever, if you are not fitted to escape you will get caught by a gank especially now that their whining has made CCP change stabs and the aggression timer (didnt know that, aparently we are now guilty of aggressing when we get shot at, wonder what the penalty for being raped is in EvE). My sugestion would be to be carefull when entering lowsec and never do missions there, its far too easy for gankers to find your location and "give you some exiting content" that you do not want any part of, a mission in highsec is almost as profitable and no mission rewards will replace a ship. In short, give them what they want, give them lowsec for themselves, soon they will get boored and start whining about the lack of targets. Naturally they will not be able to make a connection between their actions and the shortage of players willing to be there but its fun to read their whines.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Captain Blart How about 3 or 4 real life bullies beatin' the crap out of your nerdy a*** just because they can ? How's that for unfair ? Maybe he can just log when they come for him!
Abriana Overlord Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:42:00 - [120] Originally by: Gias Tao Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? Very sad indeed

Valen Itrius Gallente Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:19:00 - [121] Just dont trust anyone in EvE and assume that everyone is out to get you. Obviously quite a dark view but if you abide by those two things you generally fair a bit better than you did at that gate.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:19:00 - [122] Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 23/01/2007 13:15:29 Seriously, does no-one get this? Your heading into lowsec and worried about gate camps. 1.Remove all of your lowslot fittings and replace them with:- A:Nanofibers and Inertial Stabs if cruiser sized or below B:WCS if Battlecruiser or larger Place your 'task' lowslot equipment into your cargo. 2.Move to location 3.At location dock, switch fittings, perform task Congratulations, you are now immune to 99% of all lowsec gatecamps. That was tough. Seriously, i'm going to just copy and paste this for the next 200 "OMGIDIEDTOACAMPCOSICANTBEBOTHEREDTOPLANAHEADANDSETUPMYSHIPCPPPLZFIX" posts.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:38:00 - [123] I still think since it is easier to probe people that jumpgates should put you somewhere randomly in the neighboring system and not on top of the gate. The way jumping in BSG is always comes to my mind when travelling. Give me a timer and a jump range and I'm good to go. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:43:00 - [124] Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 23/01/2007 13:43:20 Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 23/01/2007 13:42:32 Originally by: Lisento Slaven I still think since it is easier to probe people that jumpgates should put you somewhere randomly in the neighboring system and not on top of the gate. The way jumping in BSG is always comes to my mind when travelling. Give me a timer and a jump range and I'm good to go. Who, anywhere, ever, sits at a single safespot long enough to be probed when there are perfectly good stations for you to wtz at the second someone enters local? The answer- The same people that move through lowsec in large, slow ships without a scout or travel setup Seriously,im an outlaw. The entire universe gets free ganks on me at every gate and the only time I have lost a ship at a gate when not activly seeking PvP since wtz was introduced was when i took my myrmadon out for a spin while drunk
Oosel Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:00:00 - [125] do as the big bad pirates say......stay out of low sec its easy just turn down the low sec missions and hopefully when everyone has taken their advice and they have no easy kills they will go to 0.0 where they have to fight with seasoned large alliances who kill anything that isnt blue to them anyway............... its good to know after a long lay off from eve that nothing changes for us mission runners.......you can still happily run missions and never ever have deal with the big meanies just play sneaky like they do
UomoDiMerda Imperium .H.E.M.P. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:01:00 - [126] actually the risk of being ganked and all the pirates stuff is one of the main reasons that keep me playing eve (although i'm not a pirate and i do gate camps mainly to defend our corp/alliance 0.0 space). the need of planning your routes and the inevitable "surprises" keep the game thrilling and fun, and the open gameplay is eve's main strengh, allowing for politics, strategy, betraying and all of the obscure parts of human nature. let alone the fact that there's a huge empire (aka "secure") space when u can experience a more canonical MMO gameplay. i guess main point is live with it or leave it.
Trista Kriegs	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:02:00 - [127] Originally by: Adoro Why does a person like you makes a person like me wanne GANK people like you on the lamest ways available? Just so it hurts... And you ganking randoms loses LV more territory.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:16:00 - [128] Originally by: Oosel do as the big bad pirates say......stay out of low sec its easy just turn down the low sec missions and hopefully when everyone has taken their advice and they have no easy kills they will go to 0.0 where they have to fight with seasoned large alliances who kill anything that isnt blue to them anyway............... Funnily enough, many people don't go in for the alliance gang-banging because they can't stand 200 man fleet fights (if bouncing between safespots all night waiting for your opponent to make a mistake can be called a fight). If lowsec emptied of 'easy kills' (note-stupid prey, not skilled pirates, tend to make for easy kills) most pirates would likely turn on the other pirate groups in their area rather than go out to the dull 0.0 boredom that is "Everyone fit a sniper ship with MWD and sit on this gate for 8 hours"
Jessica May	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:19:00 - [129] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot the dull 0.0 boredom that is "Everyone fit a sniper ship with MWD and sit on this gate for 8 hours" Ain't that the truth
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:27:00 - [130] Edited by: Shadowsword on 23/01/2007 15:28:08 Originally by: Nicholai Pestot The answer- The same people that move through lowsec in large, slow ships without a scout or travel setup Hypothetic scenario - Player A is in low-sec, and get a lv4 mission from his agent. - Player A is worried about pirates, so he log out, and log back with a scout alt. - Player A scout the way, and log off his alt. - Player A log with his main, and go to the target system. There's a little chance that he'll stumble over pirates that just started camping, but the risk is limited. - Player A complete the mission, and log off. - Player A log back with his alt, and scout the way back. - PLayer A log off, log back in with his main. - PLayer A travel back, hoping no pirate camp started after his scout passed by. A smart pirate group that know you're doing missions can add you to his adressbook, guess what you're doing, and trap your main despite your scout. All those log-on/log-off to gain an advantage in-game, are meta-gaming, and should never be necessary... Last but not least, do you really expect many people to put up with all that log-crap? Compared to missions in high-sec, low-sec has about 15% more reward/hour. Absolutely not worth it... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.

Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:45:00 - [131] Im a fan of the travel setup. 4nanos 4 stabs...a mix :D. or 8 stabs! lowsec nothing but a snigg gang can really lock you down. Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:50:00 - [132] Originally by: Shadowsword Hypothetic scenario - Player A is in low-sec, and get a lv4 mission from his agent. - Player A is worried about pirates, so he log out, and log back with a scout alt. - Player A scout the way, and log off his alt. - Player A log with his main, and go to the target system. There's a little chance that he'll stumble over pirates that just started camping, but the risk is limited. - Player A complete the mission, and log off. - Player A log back with his alt, and scout the way back. - PLayer A log off, log back in with his main. - PLayer A travel back, hoping no pirate camp started after his scout passed by. A smart pirate group that know you're doing missions can add you to his adressbook, guess what you're doing, and trap your main despite your scout. All those log-on/log-off to gain an advantage in-game, are meta-gaming, and should never be necessary... Well, there's that, but there's another way too that isn't meta-gaming, but still seem to be extremely off-putting to a lot of players. The mystical, magical way is to get a friend to scout for you! /Ki Haven't got one yet?
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:53:00 - [133] You can't ask a friend to scout for you every single mission you do, unless you pay him. But if you pay him enough for him to stop doing whatever he's doing, then high-sec is more profitable, so low-sec is, again, not worth it... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:11:00 - [134] Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 23/01/2007 16:11:25 Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 23/01/2007 15:28:08 Originally by: Nicholai Pestot The answer- The same people that move through lowsec in large, slow ships without a scout or travel setup Hypothetic scenario - Player A is in low-sec, and get a lv4 mission from his agent. - Player A is worried about pirates, so he log out, and log back with a scout alt. - Player A scout the way, and log off his alt. - Player A log with his main, and go to the target system. There's a little chance that he'll stumble over pirates that just started camping, but the risk is limited. - Player A complete the mission, and log off. - Player A log back with his alt, and scout the way back. - PLayer A log off, log back in with his main. - PLayer A travel back, hoping no pirate camp started after his scout passed by. A smart pirate group that know you're doing missions can add you to his adressbook, guess what you're doing, and trap your main despite your scout. All those log-on/log-off to gain an advantage in-game, are meta-gaming, and should never be necessary... Last but not least, do you really expect many people to put up with all that log-crap? Compared to missions in high-sec, low-sec has about 15% more reward/hour. Absolutely not worth it... Ah, once again, copy and paste 4tw (from my post just a few above yours) ____________________________________ Does no-one get this? Your heading into lowsec and worried about gate camps. 1.Remove all of your lowslot fittings and replace them with:- A:Nanofibers and Inertial Stabs if cruiser sized or below B:WCS if Battlecruiser or larger Place your 'task' lowslot equipment into your cargo. 2.Move to location 3.At location dock, switch fittings, perform task Congratulations, you are now immune to 99% of all lowsec gatecamps. That was tough. I'm going to just copy and paste this for the next 200 "OMGIDIEDTOACAMPCOSICANTBEBOTHEREDTOPLANAHEADANDSETUPMYSHIPCCPPLZFIX" posts. __________________________________________ Scouting is one of your two main options, the other is fitting a travel setup...like has been said...many times.... A generic lowsec gatecamp capable of catching a BS in a travel setup (7 or 8 WCS) will consist of at least 6 ships.This is normally quite easy to spot with map filters.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:25:00 - [135] And when you go to a system that has no station? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:29:00 - [136] Lot of this has been mentioned, but there are so many ways to avoid a camp in the first place. -Fit for travel (as mentioned above, WCS, nanos instabs etc) -Check local -Check your map -Warp to the nearest planet and scan the gate -Check region channel for intel I hope for your sake you don't ever hit a proper camp in 0.0 with bubbles..
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:38:00 - [137] Originally by: Shadowsword And when you go to a system that has no station? Then that is one of the few occasions you use a friend to scout. You must have pretty shoddy corp mates if they arn't willing to wizz over in a shuttle for you now and then for free (with you of course reciprocating in the future). Teamwork+adaption = win
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:57:00 - [138] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Then that is one of the few occasions you use a friend to scout. Few occasions, you say... Go check, for example, Irmalin: Nice spot, several lv4q20 agents, both surrounding systems (where the agents send you 70% of the time) stationless. Local always at 20-30, so when you're going to enter the system you can't say if the gate is camped or not. I choosed to leave when the pirates started killing about 5-10 BS/day, average. As for my corpmates, I'm not going to ask them to make 25-30 jumps just to scout me. Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Alternativly, you fly as far as you can in a travel setup then do the last 1 or 2 jumps in a combat setup after checking the map filters. Not always possible, look above. Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Believe it or not, many pirates CBA to camp out of the way stationless systems for one random guy in a BS And CCP, in their infinite wisdom, gathered a lot of good agent in single low-sec systems, to give the pirates a fat target to hit. The pirates won't camp a single BS, but they will when 5-10 mission runners will enter the system within a 2-3 hours window... Anyway, enough of that. Low-sec will stay deserted by non-pirates, thus belt pirating and ransoming will stay a dead profession, as long as sentries are a joke, and it's as simple as that... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Louie Scrapinetti Minmatar M. Corp Academy	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:58:00 - [139] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot You must have pretty shoddy corp mates if they arn't willing to wizz over in a shuttle for you now and then for free (with you of course reciprocating in the future). Yes. Be nice to insiders.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:07:00 - [140] To the pirates that want more preys. Go to alliances lands for hunting a few prays. So both sides have fun.. you hunt a few and have to risk being detected and vaporized by the defense forces (lol other day we chaseda brutix wih 31 man fleet up to a dead end system and kept it there jumping from ss to ss with a few squirmishes of our tacklers with him unil the next day ) If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:15:00 - [141] Originally by: Shadowsword ... Choose a different system. Oh wait no, maybe you could actually be 'forced' to use an agent below quality 20, TELL ME IT AIN'T TRUE GOD Or of course, since there's like 20-30 in local all day anyway, you make some friends locally and help eachother out instead of collectively putting your arms up and surrendering to the whine... C'mon, wtf is hard about all this ? Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:26:00 - [142] In my opinion the warp to 0 option gives you some chances.. Although if a proper camp is made.. youll have to check for another route, and thats how the game works. A well organized group camping a gate nowadays deserve the kills they get and this is EVE, based on that, pvp, and every guy needs the same oportunity, those like you who need to avoid to get ganked and those who want to gank. Those who want to gank now definetly need to be organized and a sniper ship at safe distance is not enough. Like I say, In my opinion is all good sports now how the system is. ---
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.23 18:43:00 - [143] Edited by: Soporo on 23/01/2007 18:42:30 Quote: Funnily enough, many people don't go in for the alliance gang-banging because they can't stand 200 man fleet fights (if bouncing between safespots all night waiting for your opponent to make a mistake can be called a fight). Uggh, the few 50 man fights I have been in were interesting in a tactical way, but rapidly lost their lustre. Much less 100-200 man blobs. Way I see it anymore, if I have to turn off all effects and sound in order to pew pew, no freekin thanks.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 19:52:00 - [144] Edited by: Shadowsword on 23/01/2007 19:48:58 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Shadowsword ... Choose a different system. Oh wait no, maybe you could actually be 'forced' to use an agent below quality 20, TELL ME IT AIN'T TRUE GOD Or of course, since there's like 20-30 in local all day anyway, you make some friends locally and help eachother out instead of collectively putting your arms up and surrendering to the whine... C'mon, wtf is hard about all this ? And wtf is hard about being polite on the forums? You speak to someone irl like that, and you'll get a bloodied nose. I seriously considered ganging up with locals against the pirates, but that would mean weeks of station camping, at the very least, and even had that been enough (doubt it), it would only have been a matter of weeks before another pirate corp moved in. All that for what? 10-15% more isks than high-sec? More profitable just to move in empire, or to train an alt to do missions in 0.0. I don't do missions for the pleasure of it, I do it to pay my ships to pvp. If high-sec gives me more isks for the same amount of time, in the long run, so be it! But that doesn't mean I can't give my opinion on low-sec's current state, and it's very possible that I'm better informed than you on low-sec mission running... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
HollyBean	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:18:00 - [145] Look,it's eve,it's player driven,thats why it's enjoyable,Pirates..are called that because they are players that like to kill and loot unwary travellers in dangerous areas,Blackbeard didn't say "lets not get that rich looking ship because there are more of us !"It's called low sec for a reason,i've lost count of the the times i got killed going low sec and not paying attention,if you go there you must be prepared to get attacked and 6 v 1 is perfectly acceptable imo
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:26:00 - [146] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. arses like you ruin this game. I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Nephrops norvegicus Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:32:00 - [147] Originally by: Gias Tao So i'm lame because i dont want my ship destroyed while i do missions? yes
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:39:00 - [148] you had every chance in the world. You just blew it. What was the chance? you have 2 options if you are determine to go solo: 1. Before the lowsec systems, dock, get a shuttle, and scout yourself. 2. Fit you ship for travel, nanos, stabs, etc, and refit at dest. Guess which you use when the dest has a station, and which you use when it does not? If you jump into lowsec/0.0 blind with no scout and no intel, you missed your chance....and if pirates are there you deserve to die, plain and simple. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:07:00 - [149] Originally by: Wizzkidy If you log out BEFORE they shoot you, you disappear after 30 seconds If they shoot you while your still logged on get the 15 min timer before you disappear The question is, will your ship last the 30 seconds if you log out before your shot Anyway at the end of the day if you log to avoid it YOU ARE LAME if you gatechamp your even lamer... ccp incurage lame things, as we can clearly see at the scam part, soo... how sad it might be ___________________________________________ come on.. stop thinking about YOU. and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.23 22:13:00 - [150] The battle does not start when the missiles start flying. It starts in your hangar, when you fit stabs for travel. It starts when you scan the gate and see 6 ships camping. It starts when you check the map for ships destroyed. It starts when you check local and see people who dont normally live there. If you are having a fair fight, neither of you did your homework.

MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:05:00 - [151] Since WTZ came out there is no reason (other then ignorance or laziness) to get ganked in a low sec gate camp. Here are a couple of hints other then the very good ones already listed: 1) Don't take the shortest and most popular routs from Jita back to low sec. Use the map and find a back road, especially in systems that jump from hi sec to low sec. 2) Most gate camps use a scout on one side of the gate to give a heads up to the head ****ers on the other side. Is there a shuttle or T1 frig just sitting by the gate going into low sec? Is it a two year old character that has only been in an NPC corp? Chances are there is a camp on the other side. 3) If you suspect there is a camp, but still would like to try it wait for another ship to come along and jump first. It improves your chances if they are busy ganking someone else. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.* - Bertrand Russell
Gudrun Hart	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:21:00 - [152] Read the first post, then start thinking. The read all the post about empty low sec etc. -> now you see why. If a mission runner runs into heavy gate camps - most of the time he just stops running mission in low sec. Its not worth the risk and its no fun if you dont have a chance. Its plain simple.
Gaius Flaminius	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:10:00 - [153] If mission runners stop coming to low-sec, I actually won't fret at all. It's not the mission runners I'm after, 'cause they are virtually impossible to find anyway with the nerf to probing (not saying if that nerf was good or bad, just that it's very difficult to find mission runners now). Actually, I'm not that bothered by low numbers in low-sec at all, 'cause there's always someone to pew-pew with, even if it's a much more powerful target than yourself. Makes the whole deal more interesting. However, I'm just an alt, and I get funds from my main. That means I'm not dependand on fat targets to pay the bills, but rather care about going after the rush of combat. Those who make a living in low-sec need those juicy faction-fitted ships, or at least the ocational hauler to make ends meet. Don't think mission-runners are what we need more of in low-sec though. What's needed, if anything, is more corps setting up base-camp there and "claiming" the systems. These corps could be "carebear-with-teeth" style corps or pirate corps, who would then charge a fee for people mining the system, and otherwise perusing it. By doing this, these systems would be much safer for miners, and pirates could still make a living, providing they use hit-and-run tactics, and are not afraid of numerical inferiority. The problem is finding the right fee to take, so that it's profitable enough for the increased risk and the fee to mine or mission-run in that system. In short, what's needed is infrastructure, and that just don't spring up by itself. I've actually seen systems that work more or less this way, and they are very hard to pirate in, but the rewards are good when you succeed. They are also very nice to mine in (I'm told ) Anyway, take it as you like. These are my views on this problem. /Gaius
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:43:00 - [154] scout ahead or stay out of low sec.. learn to target and disable the tacklers first.. ECM is a lovely thing for 'strategic withdraw' *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:39:00 - [155] Originally by: Lisento Slaven I still think since it is easier to probe people that jumpgates should put you somewhere randomly in the neighboring system and not on top of the gate. The way jumping in BSG is always comes to my mind when travelling. Give me a timer and a jump range and I'm good to go. Actually originally gates were one way acceleration "cannons" that would hurl the ship into deep space in the target system. The problem was the position was not random but would land you in one of ... say 3 locations. The way this was changed was that people would first camp the hell out of the gate (no sentry guns ither initially), when sentry guns were added (you will not belive the whining that this led to), a coupple uf sentry upgrades and concord boosts later a relatively smart pirate figured out that if you jumped through a coupple of times you would be able to bookmark all the destination spots and started to camp thise. After this caught on CCP, rather than add sentry guns to deep space decided to alter Jump gate tech so that there is a launch gate and a recieving gate, the main bonus of this was that you would only have to place sentryguns on 2 spots per gate pair. In reality we have much to thank the pirates for, powerfull concord and gate guns are only two small footnotes in their history, a new pirate would do well to learn the mistakes of the old pirates but I very much doubt they will.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:48:00 - [156] In response to the Op would you rather die from a stabbed up sniper or 6 six ships dedicated to killing you when you get shot out of the pinata cannon?

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.24 13:27:00 - [157] trolling / flaming removed please stay on topic or this thread will be locked. ta! forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!

Darcha	Posted - 2007.01.24 13:31:00 - [158] IMO logging off during combat to avoid being destroyed is mis-use of the game mechanics. This system was implemented so u would not loose ur ship in case ur internet or computer fails, not if u can't deal with the reality of eve. Whatever eve is, it's much more like reallife then most people want to think. There's actions and there's consequences. U wanna mug someone by yourself, you could get in trouble. Go well prepared with multiple peepz and ur chances of an unscathed victory increase greatly. Deal with it. And alltho tiresome I'm still gonna say it; Go play WoW if u wanna be handheld when the game gets exciting/difficult/challenging. ______________________________________ "There are NO bugs in EVE, just oversights" ----- Oveur and TomB, EvE fanfest 2006
Shanur	Posted - 2007.01.24 14:20:00 - [159] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Before you get all excited, think about freighters in lowsec being untouchable. Kinda negates the point of lowsec don't you think. Gimme a break, lowsec SHOULD be a place where you have escorts or groups of friends nearby. Jesus. Except that if you are able to get such an escort, why not go all the way to 0.0 where the rewards are higher and you don't have to wait for the pirates to attack first or take a security hit? There is currently no reason at all for an organized group to stop at low sec and not go straight into 0.0. That leaves soloing players to try and make their living in low sec. Until life in 0.0 is made harder to such a degree that being organized enough to repel raiders and fight trough gatecamps is enough to thrive with basic resource harvesting in there, or incentives are added to make staying in low sec more attractive for small groups than fall trough to 0.0, you can not expect anything other than pirates and soloers looking for a challenge to use low sec for anything other than the risky buffer between 0.0 and empire. The argument to bring friends becomes moot because if those people had friends they would not be contend with 'just' low sec.
Shanur	Posted - 2007.01.24 14:32:00 - [160] Originally by: Gaius Flaminius If mission runners stop coming to low-sec, I actually won't fret at all. It's not the mission runners I'm after, 'cause they are virtually impossible to find anyway with the nerf to probing (not saying if that nerf was good or bad, just that it's very difficult to find mission runners now). Actually, I'm not that bothered by low numbers in low-sec at all, 'cause there's always someone to pew-pew with, even if it's a much more powerful target than yourself. Makes the whole deal more interesting. However, I'm just an alt, and I get funds from my main. That means I'm not dependand on fat targets to pay the bills, but rather care about going after the rush of combat. Those who make a living in low-sec need those juicy faction-fitted ships, or at least the ocational hauler to make ends meet. Don't think mission-runners are what we need more of in low-sec though. What's needed, if anything, is more corps setting up base-camp there and "claiming" the systems. These corps could be "carebear-with-teeth" style corps or pirate corps, who would then charge a fee for people mining the system, and otherwise perusing it. By doing this, these systems would be much safer for miners, and pirates could still make a living, providing they use hit-and-run tactics, and are not afraid of numerical inferiority. The problem is finding the right fee to take, so that it's profitable enough for the increased risk and the fee to mine or mission-run in that system. In short, what's needed is infrastructure, and that just don't spring up by itself. I've actually seen systems that work more or less this way, and they are very hard to pirate in, but the rewards are good when you succeed. They are also very nice to mine in (I'm told ) Anyway, take it as you like. These are my views on this problem. /Gaius It's good to see a well founded argument by one of the 'bad guys'. Unfortunately what you ask for will never happen as long as the corp takes security hits whenever trying to police their claimed chunk of space. It's this rule of low sec, the one that gives people not caring about their security standing the first strike advantage, more than anything why player corps go straight to 0.0. At least there they can shoot first, ask questions later and never worry about not being welcome in empire space for supplies, skill books and blueprints anymore. I fully agree with you that how you describe it, combined with corps that perhaps are situated in empire space but ocasionally send out a heavily armed convoy into low sec for mining and missioning, carebears with teeth as you call it, is how people should operate outside of empire space. At this time however, the difference in rewards and penalties simply do not justify such players settling in the unregulated slums that are low sec and not go straight into the lawless wildlands that make 0.0. It just isn't worth it for them to claim and police territory that punishes them to do so.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.24 15:05:00 - [161] Remove ALL mineral asteroids from empire... solved. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:25:00 - [162] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove ALL mineral asteroids from empire... solved. I would lol so hard if that happend
Asroha Cloudwalker	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:25:00 - [163] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. QFE With this game being a "shoot first ask questions later" EVERY gatecamper should be denied their spoils via the logoffski... There's about as much honor in gatecamping as there is in utilizing the logoffski.
Gaius Flaminius	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:32:00 - [164] Originally by: Asroha Cloudwalker Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. QFE With this game being a "shoot first ask questions later" EVERY gatecamper should be denied their spoils via the logoffski... There's about as much honor in gatecamping as there is in utilizing the logoffski. What about people who log off even when it isn't a gate camp that's killing them? What about people who log when they loose a 1v1 or a 2v1? Is this really a gatecamping issue? Answer: No! It isn't. It's got NOTHING to do with gatecamps becuase cowards will log in ANY situation when there's a possibility that they might loose. Don't believe me? Throw a gander at the video-section of these forums and look for the loggofski movies. There are quite a few, and very few of them show people logging in gatecamps. /Gaius
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:35:00 - [165] Originally by: Asroha Cloudwalker Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. QFE With this game being a "shoot first ask questions later" EVERY gatecamper should be denied their spoils via the logoffski... There's about as much honor in gatecamping as there is in utilizing the logoffski. Gate camping isn't about honor ITS ABOUT THE LOOT YOU TARD how the hell else are you going to kill a hauler seeing as NO HAULER GOES INTO A BELT you people make me sick and I'm a belt pirate Actually I found a hauler in a belt once in lowsec no idea what he was doing but hey space pinatas must be ****ed open
X3vious	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:41:00 - [166] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove ALL mineral asteroids from empire... solved. You really think that would work? How about the direct result of this being: Significant amount of players quit eve. CCP unable to develop eve further due to lack of funds, which results in even more players quitting until CCP suspends Eve. No more Eve. No more game for you!!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:45:00 - [167] Originally by: X3vious Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove ALL mineral asteroids from empire... solved. You really think that would work? How about the direct result of this being: Significant amount of players quit eve. CCP unable to develop eve further due to lack of funds, which results in even more players quitting until CCP suspends Eve. No more Eve. No more game for you!! It was a joke ya foo!
X3vious	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:46:00 - [168] OK, fine :-) Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: X3vious Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove ALL mineral asteroids from empire... solved. You really think that would work? How about the direct result of this being: Significant amount of players quit eve. CCP unable to develop eve further due to lack of funds, which results in even more players quitting until CCP suspends Eve. No more Eve. No more game for you!! It was a joke ya foo!
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.25 17:58:00 - [169] Originally by: Eitodda Nurr Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. Come on, you really think that using a metagame exploit because you can't be bothered to do your recon first is a legitimate tactic? And paying for an alt account scout to sit cloaked at the other side of the gate ISN'T metagaming? ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Gaius Flaminius	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:03:00 - [170] Originally by: Lyn30101 And paying for an alt account scout to sit cloaked at the other side of the gate ISN'T metagaming? No, that's team play for the socially inept. /Gaius

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:33:00 - [171] Edited by: Avon on 25/01/2007 18:30:30 Originally by: Asroha Cloudwalker Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Put shield hardener on, and shield boosters, THEN log out. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing this. Since you were outnumbered, and it wasn't a 1v1 fight, it is your right to log off. QFE With this game being a "shoot first ask questions later" EVERY gatecamper should be denied their spoils via the logoffski... There's about as much honor in gatecamping as there is in utilizing the logoffski. So, you log off because ther is no hope against a gate camper? Why not? A nice 1vs1 at a gate, you must have a fair chance of getting away, non? What's that? There are more than one of them, and they are working together? How dare they? I can see why that is unfair, it isn't like you have the option to work with other people too. Huh? You shouldn't have to? You should be perfectly safe on your own, and people ganging up on you is a good reason to exploit (okay, metagame) your way out of a bad situation? Right... The sanity train departs from the other platform mate. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Zarottid Boznemmek Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.25 18:49:00 - [172] Originally by: Gias Tao I got ganked by 6 ships at a gate a few days ago, wrecking my newly acquired Myrmidon. I warp in, see a Mega 150 kms away right in my face, and im stupid enough not to react at this point. I right click on my mission location and try to warp to it, and while im at it i get targetted and scrambled. Needless to say, i was shocked, it was my first death to gate gankers, and even if i only saw the mega, 4-5 others ships just appeared by me and started pounding my armor to bits. Now, would log out save me the next time this happens? I find going into low sec exciting if i meet challenging opponents, but being thorn to shreds without even a remote chance of victory isn't really my sport. . <--see that pixel? It is a video clip of the world's smallest violin, playing the saddest song every composed, in mourning of your tragic loss of man and machine (sorry, but even at full volume, the song is very faint) I was the recipient of an attack similar to that a few weeks ago, while moving my stuff to another region in my Iteron Mk I. I knew I was going through <0.5 space to get there and I knew there was a risk associated with that. I took my chance and I lost. Sometimes risk does not pay off. I dealt with it. Something that made me chuckle was that all of my stuff was in password secured cargo containers, so the gate campers destroyed every last bit of my cargo. NEENER-NEENER-NEENER You didn't get any of my cargo, campers!
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.01.25 19:38:00 - [173] "You did read the red text under your mission location details saying it was in low security space right? Jeez you guys just ignore the warning signs then you complain on the forums about not paying attention " I am sure he did but it didnt come clear that people can camp the spot he spawns into the new system, and do it extremely safely and leave the people entering with zero chance :)


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