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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
43
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:43:07 -
[1] - Quote
Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:47:26 -
[2] - Quote
extraction is optional
if you don't want to lose SP, don't extract SP to begin with  |
Xyle Alduin
Edcorp Industries
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:48:24 -
[3] - Quote
CCP you give us something new, but i want more! if we want to go as far as a 1:1 sp transfer, might as well do a 1:5. i want to take a million sp from my alt and give 5mil to my main! jesus man, your like my daughter. we give her a raise in her allowance by 50% and instead of being happy she starts trying to ask for another 50%. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:49:51 -
[4] - Quote
Don't bother reading the OP, just say something snarky, that helps.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2396
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:59:28 -
[5] - Quote
thats the next release guys, Skill Extractor Firewall - Safeguard against losing SP during extraction only 2000 aurum - thxbye
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
191
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:00:35 -
[6] - Quote
I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:07:47 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:WeGÇÖve designed it this way so that we protect the prestige associated with long commitment to a single character.
That's just a bunch of BS.
It doesn't realistically work either way. You'd have a bunch of rich old men losing skills in the transfer but young "poor guys" getting 100%.
That's laughable.
We all know that in society the poor working class that's struggling to make ends meet are the ones paying higher interest rates and getting less "bang for the buck".
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
114
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:08:11 -
[8] - Quote
Perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one.
It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
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Memphis Baas
1093
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah absolutely nobody has thought about it, nobody at all.
The point of this wasn't to help us. The point of it was to create income for CCP. They're not even selling pixels, they're selling the ability to move existing pixels around, at a loss.
In any case, SP are "lost" all the time. Any ship that you're not flying, the related SP are useless. If you decide to take a break, the SP's are "lost" to the rest of the playerbase. All of the 2003 accounts with 250 million SPs that you don't see around anymore, they're lost. Any deleted character is lost SP.
This is changing the SP loss from an income loss (people stop logging in or delete their characters, CCP doesn't get subscription money) to an income gain (people destroy SP = aur fees for CCP).
We're also being tricked into throwing crazy amounts of cash at a meaningless number. It's like paying AUR to be able to trade K/D stats, so the leet PVP'ers can extract some of their green and sell it to the PVE folk to offset their red killboard stats. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2396
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:18:29 -
[10] - Quote
sooo much anger over silly little things which are easily ignored 
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:25:27 -
[11] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sooo much anger over silly little things which are easily ignored
Because being one of the sheep is so much fun...
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
11
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:29:36 -
[12] - Quote
Someone didn't read carefully enough.
The DR applies to the total amount TRAINED USING INJECTORS
Not your total SP. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1824
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:34:32 -
[13] - Quote
Frank Truck wrote:Someone didn't read carefully enough.
The DR applies to the total amount TRAINED USING INJECTORS
Not your total SP.
Er... I'm pretty sure that's what he's complaining about. He probably wants to use it as an intracharacter SP remap and is butthurt that it's lossy.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9821
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:40:18 -
[14] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
I have.
Not as much impact as people removing massive amounts of SP from the game by quitting.
You want a cause to rally around? Try keeping people in the game instead of whining about skill injection in older characters.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2397
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:46:53 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:pajedas wrote:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
I have. Not as much impact as people removing massive amounts of SP from the game by quitting. You want a cause to rally around? Try keeping people in the game instead of whining about skill injection in older characters. Mr Epeen
/Thread
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
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Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
1812
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:50:14 -
[16] - Quote
The loss is to prevent people from moving sp between characters ad nauseum forever. I don't really understand how you missed that. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
270
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:50:22 -
[17] - Quote
people really are amazing pr*cks sometimes, you give them a hand they'll try to take your whole arm.
you paid CCP to access their server only, you are not entitled beyond that.
Just Add Water
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
52
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Posted - 2016.02.09 17:48:28 -
[18] - Quote
Same handful of trolls still occupy GD and try so hard to hold onto their little piece of nothing.
Don't worry about answering questions constructively, just hammer away with your stupid and very limited troll point of view.
CCP won't step in to moderate unless they perceive a threat to their pocket books.
Obvious broken system is still a broken system.
CCP can lock and or remove this thread now, no help was actually expected.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
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Posted - 2016.02.09 18:01:35 -
[19] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun...
Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep.
I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
57
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Posted - 2016.02.09 18:03:31 -
[20] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun... Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep. I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah?
Not calling everyone sheep, just you.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
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Posted - 2016.02.09 18:15:50 -
[21] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Not calling everyone sheep, just you.
https://i.imgur.com/wYawI.gif |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
60
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Posted - 2016.02.09 18:39:51 -
[22] - Quote
Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
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Posted - 2016.02.09 19:11:13 -
[23] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
http://i.imgur.com/ozEmMMK.gif |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2016.02.09 20:14:03 -
[24] - Quote
Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
11
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Posted - 2016.02.09 21:07:47 -
[25] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
I don't agree, to me the extractor is a container, the commodity is the skills it holds.
Selling the "container" is like a tax.
Wait, CCP is taxing us!! :( |
Memphis Baas
1095
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Posted - 2016.02.09 21:12:27 -
[26] - Quote
I'll repeat my idea from pg. 1: CCP should implement true / literal pay-to-win: you pay 1000 aurum and a killboard loss gets displayed as a win (if someone else is nice enough to PVP and extract their win and sell it to you). |
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
294
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Posted - 2016.02.09 21:13:21 -
[27] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
The loss of skill points is irrelevant.
Someone creates and injector for sale using 500k sp, someone else buys it and injects 400k or less.
The lose doesn't matter, the seller has removed 500k, but the buyer gets whatever they get.
Don't think of it just as sp, consider it more as isk.
The lose is irrelevant because the seller knows what they are using (500k) and the buyer knows what they are getting (sp in terms of isk). |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1105
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Posted - 2016.02.09 21:22:18 -
[28] - Quote
if you dont want/like loss of skill points - dont extract them?
You decide. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
612
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Posted - 2016.02.09 21:46:24 -
[29] - Quote
SP sink is just the consequence of SP being tradeable. SP simply grow on their own. Some players are already at their "personal SP cap" - meaning that they don't need to trade anything anymore and can sell whatever they train right away. There needs to be a reliable way (beyond players leaving the game) to "use them up". Otherwise nobody is going to pay for them anymore in a year or so, because there's an abundance of SP available on the market. And if nobody is willing to pay for them, nobody is going to buy extractors, which would ruin CCPs shiny new source of income.
To be frank, I think the losses are still rather tame. For this to work reliably, CCP would need to implement more ways to get rid of SP beyond trading and T3 losses. I don't know - one could lose SP when getting podded for example.  |
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
1023
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:27:42 -
[30] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
It's called risk versus reward. You risk your skillpoints for a great reward. That reward being you can now allocate those skillpoints where you should have put them in the first place.
The penalty comes from you being stupid and not thinking out a better skill plan, or resorting to the use of skill extractors/injectors in the first place. They are a totally voluntary thing. You don't like the returns? Then don't participate. |
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