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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
43
   |
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:43:07 -
[1] - Quote
Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2016.02.09 15:47:26 -
[2] - Quote
extraction is optional
if you don't want to lose SP, don't extract SP to begin with  |
Xyle Alduin
Edcorp Industries
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:48:24 -
[3] - Quote
CCP you give us something new, but i want more! if we want to go as far as a 1:1 sp transfer, might as well do a 1:5. i want to take a million sp from my alt and give 5mil to my main! jesus man, your like my daughter. we give her a raise in her allowance by 50% and instead of being happy she starts trying to ask for another 50%. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:49:51 -
[4] - Quote
Don't bother reading the OP, just say something snarky, that helps.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2396
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:59:28 -
[5] - Quote
thats the next release guys, Skill Extractor Firewall - Safeguard against losing SP during extraction only 2000 aurum - thxbye
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
191
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:00:35 -
[6] - Quote
I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:07:47 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:WeGÇÖve designed it this way so that we protect the prestige associated with long commitment to a single character.
That's just a bunch of BS.
It doesn't realistically work either way. You'd have a bunch of rich old men losing skills in the transfer but young "poor guys" getting 100%.
That's laughable.
We all know that in society the poor working class that's struggling to make ends meet are the ones paying higher interest rates and getting less "bang for the buck".
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:08:11 -
[8] - Quote
Perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one.
It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
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Memphis Baas
1093
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah absolutely nobody has thought about it, nobody at all.
The point of this wasn't to help us. The point of it was to create income for CCP. They're not even selling pixels, they're selling the ability to move existing pixels around, at a loss.
In any case, SP are "lost" all the time. Any ship that you're not flying, the related SP are useless. If you decide to take a break, the SP's are "lost" to the rest of the playerbase. All of the 2003 accounts with 250 million SPs that you don't see around anymore, they're lost. Any deleted character is lost SP.
This is changing the SP loss from an income loss (people stop logging in or delete their characters, CCP doesn't get subscription money) to an income gain (people destroy SP = aur fees for CCP).
We're also being tricked into throwing crazy amounts of cash at a meaningless number. It's like paying AUR to be able to trade K/D stats, so the leet PVP'ers can extract some of their green and sell it to the PVE folk to offset their red killboard stats. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2396
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:18:29 -
[10] - Quote
sooo much anger over silly little things which are easily ignored 
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
44
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:25:27 -
[11] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:sooo much anger over silly little things which are easily ignored
Because being one of the sheep is so much fun...
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:29:36 -
[12] - Quote
Someone didn't read carefully enough.
The DR applies to the total amount TRAINED USING INJECTORS
Not your total SP. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1824
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:34:32 -
[13] - Quote
Frank Truck wrote:Someone didn't read carefully enough.
The DR applies to the total amount TRAINED USING INJECTORS
Not your total SP.
Er... I'm pretty sure that's what he's complaining about. He probably wants to use it as an intracharacter SP remap and is butthurt that it's lossy.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9821
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:40:18 -
[14] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
I have.
Not as much impact as people removing massive amounts of SP from the game by quitting.
You want a cause to rally around? Try keeping people in the game instead of whining about skill injection in older characters.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2397
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:46:53 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:pajedas wrote:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
I have. Not as much impact as people removing massive amounts of SP from the game by quitting. You want a cause to rally around? Try keeping people in the game instead of whining about skill injection in older characters. Mr Epeen
/Thread
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
1812
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:50:14 -
[16] - Quote
The loss is to prevent people from moving sp between characters ad nauseum forever. I don't really understand how you missed that. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
270
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:50:22 -
[17] - Quote
people really are amazing pr*cks sometimes, you give them a hand they'll try to take your whole arm.
you paid CCP to access their server only, you are not entitled beyond that.
Just Add Water
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
52
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Posted - 2016.02.09 17:48:28 -
[18] - Quote
Same handful of trolls still occupy GD and try so hard to hold onto their little piece of nothing.
Don't worry about answering questions constructively, just hammer away with your stupid and very limited troll point of view.
CCP won't step in to moderate unless they perceive a threat to their pocket books.
Obvious broken system is still a broken system.
CCP can lock and or remove this thread now, no help was actually expected.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:01:35 -
[19] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun...
Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep.
I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
57
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:03:31 -
[20] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun... Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep. I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah?
Not calling everyone sheep, just you.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:15:50 -
[21] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Not calling everyone sheep, just you.
https://i.imgur.com/wYawI.gif |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:39:51 -
[22] - Quote
Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
610
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:11:13 -
[23] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
http://i.imgur.com/ozEmMMK.gif |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:14:03 -
[24] - Quote
Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:07:47 -
[25] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
I don't agree, to me the extractor is a container, the commodity is the skills it holds.
Selling the "container" is like a tax.
Wait, CCP is taxing us!! :( |
Memphis Baas
1095
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:12:27 -
[26] - Quote
I'll repeat my idea from pg. 1: CCP should implement true / literal pay-to-win: you pay 1000 aurum and a killboard loss gets displayed as a win (if someone else is nice enough to PVP and extract their win and sell it to you). |
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
294
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:13:21 -
[27] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Pay to win FTL.
I made a suggestion to the new ideas forum suggesting how to use skill extractor ranges to avoid the need for the SP loss you describe and allow for a 1:1 trade.
That was before I found out that extractors were not player-made, but were being sold by the company for money ("aurum"), in other words pay-to-win.
There is no scenario in which this can be "fixed". The 1:1 issue is really a non-issue if you consider that the whole thing is a pay-to-win scheme, so the SP shrinkage does not really matter. The shrinkage is going to come off of alts, farmed alts in many cases, so the effect of this is to just inflate the SP of players who pay money to the game company: ie pay-to-win, a very bad thing.
The loss of skill points is irrelevant.
Someone creates and injector for sale using 500k sp, someone else buys it and injects 400k or less.
The lose doesn't matter, the seller has removed 500k, but the buyer gets whatever they get.
Don't think of it just as sp, consider it more as isk.
The lose is irrelevant because the seller knows what they are using (500k) and the buyer knows what they are getting (sp in terms of isk). |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1105
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:22:18 -
[28] - Quote
if you dont want/like loss of skill points - dont extract them?
You decide. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
612
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:46:24 -
[29] - Quote
SP sink is just the consequence of SP being tradeable. SP simply grow on their own. Some players are already at their "personal SP cap" - meaning that they don't need to trade anything anymore and can sell whatever they train right away. There needs to be a reliable way (beyond players leaving the game) to "use them up". Otherwise nobody is going to pay for them anymore in a year or so, because there's an abundance of SP available on the market. And if nobody is willing to pay for them, nobody is going to buy extractors, which would ruin CCPs shiny new source of income.
To be frank, I think the losses are still rather tame. For this to work reliably, CCP would need to implement more ways to get rid of SP beyond trading and T3 losses. I don't know - one could lose SP when getting podded for example.  |
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
1023
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:27:42 -
[30] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
It's called risk versus reward. You risk your skillpoints for a great reward. That reward being you can now allocate those skillpoints where you should have put them in the first place.
The penalty comes from you being stupid and not thinking out a better skill plan, or resorting to the use of skill extractors/injectors in the first place. They are a totally voluntary thing. You don't like the returns? Then don't participate. |
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
636
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:58:11 -
[31] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Because it would be too overpowered. And you are supposed to actual think about what you want to train for. You shouldn't wastefully through potential sp away. Simple as ******* can be. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:11:19 -
[32] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Because being one of the sheep is so much fun... Kind of hard to take someone seriously who calls people sheep. I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? Not calling everyone sheep, just you.
loss is essential. isk is too easy to get, without sp loss you could reconfigure your chars constantly whenever you needed to fly or fit something. well the rich could which woukd be pretty imba
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1105
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:16:10 -
[33] - Quote
I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be serving the market. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4683
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 23:25:11 -
[34] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Enter Skill Point Trading:
Has anybody considered the overall impact on the total number of skill points in Eve?
Just for round easy numbers, say there's a 20% decrease in total SP's in New Eden in the first month. All those skills that were trained in real time are lost forever. (Why?)
Why lose SP's? Seriously. Are the tools used so inefficient that they can't achieve a 1:1 transfer?
We paid our subscriptions and trained those skills for years. They should not be lost.
I know some will say, "You don't have to trade them". Absolutely true, but if you're going to offer something to "help" us, why the crappy exchange rate?
If you can transfer my skills to a clone at 1:1 everytime I get podded or make a jump, why the sudden downgrade in technology?
Game balance?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:12:19 -
[35] - Quote
Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines?
A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4684
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:38:31 -
[36] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines?
A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
Of course I think it is intentional. Totally and complete intentional. CCP has deliberately put in an SP sink into the game.
Oh and historical point of interest...J.D. Rockefeller...was a huge proponent of improving efficiency at his refineries. He was quite good at it. For example, where other refineries dumped gasoline into rivers and treated it as waste, he had his plants set up to use it to run machinery. His company also marketed another byproduct as well...vasoline.
Oh, and Rockefeller was refining to produce kerosene, not gasoline initially. Whale oil was rather pricey. During Rockefeller's tenure as the head of Standard Oil, kerosene prices dropped dramatically.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
612
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:48:54 -
[37] - Quote
pajedas wrote:CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Yep, that's why they removed SP loss on clone death not too long ago.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1286
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:05:29 -
[38] - Quote
The number of SP in the game will go down, yes. But the bigger picture is that there are thousands of characters doing **** all right now. Those characters will now be sucked dry and new characters that are going to buy up the skills and help make it easy for new players. New players that will be spending money on the game now.
internet spaceships
are serious business sir.
and don't forget it
|
Jessica23Atreides
Perkone
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:46:12 -
[39] - Quote
Who cares if there is a 20% drop across the board. I don't need Mining III to fly my Tengu and indy players don't need Surgical Strike V to fly an Orca.
The whole idea is to begin to close the gap between 2003 players and some kid who happens to see a 21-day free-trial for Eve in the corner on RealityKings tomorrow afternoon. Veteran players reward = tonz.TONZ.T O N Z of ISK and the ability to re-spec their toon or polish off those damn specialization skills we all have sitting at IV. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2378
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:47:23 -
[40] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Everyone's explaining this from a political standpoint because there is no logical answer.
CCP is effectively "letting" people flush trained SP's down the drain.
And you guys don't think that's intentional?
Q: Who decided to make less efficient gas burning engines?
A: The people selling the oil.
Fix the machine!
theres mothing political about a mechanic thats designed to reduce (not eliminate) sucking out a skill when you wanna fly a specific ship with fittings at max skill then injecting them back later. some people have trillions of isk, no SP loss would make it much to easy to reconfigure skills whenever you wanted to. with SP loss theres a penalty to using your own sp rather than buying it from others.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
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Jessica23Atreides
Perkone
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:53:33 -
[41] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be training sp purely for sale.
Nope. PLEX prices will soon make it a losing practice. They will have to pay RL$ to keep accounts subbed more than they will earn enough to PLEX. Probably a 2:3 ratio when the market settles. PLEX = AUR = Extractors (or are injectors on the NES)
PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas.
o/ Have fun farming!! |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
1094
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 05:30:09 -
[42] - Quote
I seriously doubt there'll be a net loss of SP. Skill training will still probably contribute to more gain of SP than any net loss from extraction and injection. Even if it doesn't, why does it matter? |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 05:48:20 -
[43] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
People like the OP clearly don't bother reading it. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4684
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 06:00:45 -
[44] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:Aptenodytes wrote:I think the reasons for the diminishing returns are quite clearly explained in the dev blog. Did you read it?
People like the OP clearly don't bother reading it.
So let's help him, the idea of diminishing marginal returns is to keep players from going form 500,000 SP to 200,000,000 without incurring a significant cost--i.e. it is a game balance issue.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
278
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:40:01 -
[45] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Glad to see that you brought your "A game".
this is to avoid further abuse in respeccing your "build" to the fotm ship (pvp), science skills (for production/invention), etc anytime, so that decision/consequence still matters.
Just Add Water
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:40:22 -
[46] - Quote
Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
Think, "Big Picture".
Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!
Those skills were paid for through monthly subscriptions, plain and simple. (Most of you never even knew training before the Training Queue) You actually had to log in all the time to check/change your skills. I remember calling my wife from work and walking her through the process.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
You can't have it both ways and you can't explain away the science behind it.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
617
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:43:30 -
[47] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
Think, "Big Picture".
Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!
Those skills were paid for through monthly subscriptions, plain and simple. (Most of you never even knew training before the Training Queue) You actually had to log in all the time to check/change your skills. I remember calling my wife from work and walking her through the process.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
You can't have it both ways and you can't explain away the science behind it.
I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
95
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:47:33 -
[48] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point.
No, I'm very serious.
We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it.
Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
618
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:53:23 -
[49] - Quote
pajedas wrote:No, I'm very serious.
We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it.
Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:02:08 -
[50] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining.
How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"?
Go bother someone else as you are not answering my question, you're just trolling.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
297
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:02:25 -
[51] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:I'm 99% sure you're just trolling at this point. No, I'm very serious. We the people are losing value and CCP is charging us for it. Change it to 1:1 and everything will be well with the World.
The only way you will lose is if you are transferring from one of your characters to another of your characters. Which isn't really their main purpose, more like a side effect of the new system. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1843
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:03:08 -
[52] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:Then you're complaining just to complain. Ignore the skill injectors, play the game and have fun. Stop whining. How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"? Go bother someone else as you are not answering my question, you're just trolling.
Your question has been thoroughly answered. The fact that you didn't like the answer does not mean it was not answered.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
618
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:10:20 -
[53] - Quote
pajedas wrote:How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"?
Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me.
Following your logic, anyone who chooses to biomass a character is being cheated by CCP
Anyone who chooses to not fly with +5 learning implants is being cheated by CCP
Anyone who forgets to activate their skill queue after jump cloning is being cheated by CCP |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics
CODE.
367
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:15:38 -
[54] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:How is your posting in my thread any different than what you're calling, "whining"? Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me. Following your logic, anyone who chooses to biomass a character is being cheated by CCP Anyone who chooses to not fly with +5 learning implants is being cheated by CCP Anyone who forgets to activate their skill queue after jump cloning is being cheated by CCP
Relax, friend. He's an anti-ganker. Crying is in their nature. Heck, I bet, his blood is roughly 31.5 percent saline! |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:17:59 -
[55] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Because you decided to make a thread about a non-issue, not me.
You're awfully passionate about a, "non-issue".
If it's so stupid why do you feel it necessary to KEEP commenting on it?
Like you say about skill trading, it's your choice to participate.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1614
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:32:27 -
[56] - Quote
I've removed some off-topic/trolling/personal posts and those quoting them.
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1108
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 18:00:32 -
[57] - Quote
Jessica23Atreides wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:I doubt there will be any real loss anyways as sp trading opens up a whole market for farmers, which will be training sp purely for sale. Nope. PLEX prices will soon make it a losing practice. They will have to pay RL$ to keep accounts subbed more than they will earn enough to PLEX. Probably a 2:3 ratio when the market settles. PLEX = AUR = Extractors (or are injectors on the NES) PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas. o/ Have fun farming!!
bs
extractor price is directly bound to plex. Does PLEX price rise, so does the other. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
83
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:07:25 -
[58] - Quote
Xyle Alduin wrote:CCP you give us something new, but i want more! if we want to go as far as a 1:1 sp transfer, might as well do a 1:5. i want to take a million sp from my alt and give 5mil to my main! jesus man, your like my daughter. we give her a raise in her allowance by 50% and instead of being happy she starts trying to ask for another 50%.
As soon as she does that, you should not give her the raise, but instead deduct 50% for the next 3 months. See if she asks for more next time you give her something. |
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
223
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 20:18:06 -
[59] - Quote
Jessica23Atreides wrote:PLEX will approach 3B by Christmas.
Good.
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Gauis Aldent
Concordiat
Spaceship Samurai
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 21:00:59 -
[60] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
Except, nobody is saying that. SP in your head is 1:1 SP in your head.
What they are saying is, if you decide to inject more SP in your head through these new highly acclerated methods, that there is a diminishing return involved. You can't just inject and inject and inject and expect it to keep working like it did the first time. There is a reason normal skill training is slow.
In the end.... its just a new option with a new cost. You don't like the cost, feel free not to do it, I probably wont either.
Yes its a new option which CCP has chosen to offer us and monetize....but... its a new option to do something we have been able to do for a long time. Every character sale on the bazar is essentially an SP transfer, and one with no diminishment.
This really changes very little. My only peve is the same one I have with plex, why make it an in game item at all if you don't mean it to work like one? No remote injection! I want people undocking with full injectors and carting them around for the market asap! |
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1909
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 21:32:16 -
[61] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Most of you are either really simple or just playing dumb.
Think, "Big Picture".
Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!
Those skills were paid for through monthly subscriptions, plain and simple. (Most of you never even knew training before the Training Queue) You actually had to log in all the time to check/change your skills. I remember calling my wife from work and walking her through the process.
So, now they're saying those SP's aren't that valuable?
You can't have it both ways and you can't explain away the science behind it. Those SP earned from that method aren't changing. It's the ones liberated from that mechanism that introduce loss. That leaves aside the fact that prior to this mechanic there were potential losses which already violated the idea of "no exceptions."
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:10:39 -
[62] - Quote
Gauis Aldent wrote:What they are saying is, if you decide to inject more SP in your head through these new highly accelerated methods, that there is a diminishing return involved. You can't just inject and inject and inject and expect it to keep working like it did the first time. There is a reason normal skill training is slow.
Using the same technical basis for your argument, explain why "on the first injection" a 10m SP player will get 1:1 but a 60m SP player will get 3:5.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:16:36 -
[63] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Those SP earned from that method aren't changing. It's the ones liberated from that mechanism that introduce loss. That leaves aside the fact that prior to this mechanic there were potential losses which already violated the idea of "no exceptions."
A loss through not having an up to date clone or T3 loss?
Those are slightly more dramatic and don't involve a medical procedure inside of a sterile lab.
The T3 loss tied to SP loss was one of the worst ideas ever.
Your argument is invalid.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1856
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:19:33 -
[64] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Those SP earned from that method aren't changing. It's the ones liberated from that mechanism that introduce loss. That leaves aside the fact that prior to this mechanic there were potential losses which already violated the idea of "no exceptions." A loss through not having an up to date clone or T3 loss? Those are slightly more dramatic and don't involve a medical procedure inside of a sterile lab. The T3 loss tied to SP loss was one of the worst ideas ever.Your argument is invalid.
No amount of fairy-tale roleplay rationalizations are going to get you lossless transfers.
You're not supposed to be able to losslessly remap your own SP. Decisions in Eve are supposed to have enduring consequence. In this case, wanting to remap your SP comes at the cost of a portion of that SP.
Get the **** over it.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
620
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:21:09 -
[65] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Using the same technical basis for your argument, explain why "on the first injection" a 10m SP player will get 1:1 but a 60m SP player will get 3:5.
Because the way veteran players would abuse this to max out skills for specific fittings in specific scenarios is insane. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1909
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:26:19 -
[66] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Those SP earned from that method aren't changing. It's the ones liberated from that mechanism that introduce loss. That leaves aside the fact that prior to this mechanic there were potential losses which already violated the idea of "no exceptions." A loss through not having an up to date clone or T3 loss? Those are slightly more dramatic and don't involve a medical procedure inside of a sterile lab. The T3 loss tied to SP loss was one of the worst ideas ever.Your argument is invalid. Agreed that the T3 loss mechanic was poorly conceived, though that doesn't and can't invalidate that it exists and has, along with clone grade related losses in the past, reduced SP which you claimed was a violation of a longstanding central theme about the value of skill training. The argument is as valid as the prior existence of those mechanics. You can't just pretend facts do not count at your convenience.
pajedas wrote:Using the same technical basis for your argument, explain why "on the first injection" a 10m SP player will get 1:1 but a 60m SP player will get 3:5. @ 10mill SP the return is 4:5 rather than 1:1. The reason the 60mill player has a lower return is due to the ability to extract and reallocate to the same character and prevent 55mill in perfect reallocation from becoming a reality. Instead their past decisions limit them to a maximum of 44 mill reallocatable, which is still very good considering the potential possibilities with that SP, as opposed to the 10 mill character's 4 mill. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:31:26 -
[67] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:you claimed was a violation of a longstanding central theme about the value of skill training.
When did I make that claim?
Wait, let me tell you.
Never.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1909
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:38:02 -
[68] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:you claimed was a violation of a longstanding central theme about the value of skill training. When did I make that claim? Wait, let me tell you. Never. So you aren't arguing that something other than skill training is violating the principle of skill training by providing a mechanism of loss?
Or was the statement "Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!" not intended to be relevant to skill injection since it's not training? If so what was the point in stating it? |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:47:08 -
[69] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So you aren't arguing that something other than skill training is violating the principle of skill training by providing a mechanism of loss?
Or was the statement "Since Day One CCP has pounded the value of 1:1 skill training, no exceptions!" not intended to be relevant to skill injection since it's not training? If so what was the point in stating it?
You're trying so hard to make this something that's it's not. What's your inspiration?
If you can't differentiate the difference between loss by death, which was found to be flawed (due to technology) and changed. Now if you get podded you don't lose those skills that you paid to train.
How is that the same as profit driven systematic elimination of trained SP's?
While we're at it, why not introduce the probability of losing SP's (memory) through drug use? We all know that drugs kill brain cells.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1856
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 23:53:45 -
[70] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
If you can't differentiate the difference between loss by death, which was found to be flawed (due to technology) and changed.
Med clones were removed because they effectively added an escalating cost-of-living to PvP. This being a PvP game, a mechanic that actively discouraged it by doing nothing but adding an expense that had to be met to PvP was deemed to be poor for gameplay.
This, along with the lack of meaningful decisions to be made regarding med clones (the correct answer was ALWAYS to upgrade your clone after a podding) is why they were removed.
Neither of these issues exist with skill injectors.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1909
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:01:31 -
[71] - Quote
pajedas wrote:You're trying so hard to make this something that's it's not. What's your inspiration? None needed. It's been more directly explained why the diminishing returns exist, but the idea of simple 1:1 accumulation (which is still debatable since someone with +5s outpaces me) without interference of any kind or "exceptions" doesn't exist.
pajedas wrote:If you can't differentiate the difference between loss by death, which was found to be flawed (due to technology) and changed. Now if you get podded you don't lose those skills that you paid to train. Never said they were the same, simply addressed the specific claim as presented.
pajedas wrote:How is that the same as profit driven systematic elimination of trained SP's? How much of a profit driver is a mechanic which only effects the demand side when it's the supply side driving most of the revenue? It should also be considered that the more this affects you the higher your earning potential in game is possibly eliminating the need for you to contribute additional revenue.
pajedas wrote:While we're at it, why not introduce the probability of losing SP's (memory) through drug use? We all know that drugs kill brain cells. Separate topic, but if you want to penalize booster use make a proposal. I have no real opinion on such a mechanic either way.
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:11:47 -
[72] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I have nothing to add but love to argue.
Dear CCP,
Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss.
I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any...
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1910
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:22:12 -
[73] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I have nothing to add but love to argue. Dear CCP, Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss. I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any... You do realize you asked for science from the space submarine sim where neck needles physically extract tangible, general purpose knowledge patterns that were somehow inextricably tied to a particular capacity while in the prior owners head, right?
Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:26:34 -
[74] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist.
That was my whole point. It can't be explained.
You're a little slow on the uptake, aren't you?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1910
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:28:17 -
[75] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist. That was my whole point. It can't be explained. You're a little slow on the uptake, aren't you? It can't be explained no matter what the particulars of the mechanic are, but I guess that only matters when you aren't getting what you specifically want.
Tell you what: "issues with synaptic pathway density interfering with the sudden application of new patterns causing loss as the more numerous existing pathways must be reworked to accommodate the new patterns while maintaining the integrity of the old ones, which is a great deal more difficult than simply 'photocopying' the existing patterns over to a blank slate or overriding old patterns"
That's how easy this is to just hand wave away. Yet that's what you're asking for. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:40:05 -
[76] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:It can't be explained no matter what the particulars of the mechanic are, but I guess that only matters when you aren't getting what you specifically want.
You sir, are a royal pain the the arse.
I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard. Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path.
I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you.
So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?
Stock options?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1910
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 00:55:11 -
[77] - Quote
pajedas wrote:I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard. And it's been explained to you why that wasn't done several times.
pajedas wrote:Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path. Maybe, and maybe as stated they didn't want perfect respec'ing SP behemoths to be a trivial reality as already posted several times.
pajedas wrote:I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you. Then why did you post them here where the focus is player discussion? Also how can you be so sure you know when it's pretty clear to most others that there is a different factor at play?
Further, why would you even ask a question suited for the eve fiction group when your concern is some misplaced notion of profit milking from the players least in need to spend money to participate?
pajedas wrote:So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?
Stock options? Pretty sure CCPs stock is privately held now, or rather I thought I read something to that effect.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
620
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:34:39 -
[78] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
You sir, are a royal pain the the arse.
I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard. Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path.
I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you.
So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?
Stock options?
You've point-blank ignored this question twice in this thread so far, so one more time. If what you say is true, why did CCP:
* get rid of SP loss on clone death
* let people lose SPs when they forget to re-activate queues
* use less than L5 training implants
I look forward to you ignoring my question again, you troll you. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 02:27:14 -
[79] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:You've point-blank ignored this question twice in this thread so far, so one more time. If what you say is true, why did CCP:
* get rid of SP loss on clone death
* let people lose SPs when they forget to re-activate queues
* use less than L5 training implants
I look forward to you ignoring my question again, you troll you.
1) It was a stupid mechanic.
2) It was a stupid mechanic.
3) I have no idea what you mean.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
299
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 02:47:23 -
[80] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Gauis Aldent wrote:What they are saying is, if you decide to inject more SP in your head through these new highly accelerated methods, that there is a diminishing return involved. You can't just inject and inject and inject and expect it to keep working like it did the first time. There is a reason normal skill training is slow. Using the same technical basis for your argument, explain why "on the first injection" a 10m SP player will get 1:1 but a 60m SP player will get 3:5.
I started injecting at 12.5+ million sp, at a rate of 400k per injector.
21 injectors later and the sp lost from the game was 2.1 million sp.
Do I care? No, because I knew what I was purchasing.
The only possible reason you would care is if you are trying to transfer between your characters. Then the lost sp would be from your own pool of sp. But even then you know if you are going to transfer it you will lose some, so if you're worried about losing it don't transfer it. |
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
620
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 02:49:59 -
[81] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
1) It was a stupid mechanic.
2) It was a stupid mechanic.
3) I have no idea what you mean.
1) it am trying to find a way to back out of what I said that completely invalidates my point
2) it am trying to find a way to back out of what I said that completely invalidates my point
3) do you not know what training implants are?
come on man. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4691
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 04:26:53 -
[82] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I have nothing to add but love to argue. Dear CCP, Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss. I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any...
FFS.
It. Is. A. Game. Balance. Issue.
CCP wants to make it so trying to go from 500,000 SP to 200 million SP has an increasing cost. Also, they don't want people re-specializing their characters instantly to suit their purposes without some form of trade off or cost. Enter the diminishing marginal rate of return on SP injectors.
It has f--- all to do with scientists and Dev concern about game balance. There are lots of things in this game that don't make sense except from a game balance view point. For somebody who has been playing since 2005 you should know this.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1896
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 04:40:04 -
[83] - Quote
The SP minigame was always a stupid waste of time.
Personally I like all the weird training my various alts have that they never use anymore, it forms part of that characters history ... "hey look there is that mining foreman he trained way back when he owned an orca before he moved to that lowsec corp" sort of thing.
Then again I have always regarded min-maxing and optimizing in games as a form of OCD insanity anyway.
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Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
111
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 08:04:38 -
[84] - Quote
When I started today the basketball goal was ten feet off the ground. Now, it's just a foot and a half and I can look straight down the pipe without jumping! (I thought I'd never be able to slam dunk!)
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7177
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 11:14:56 -
[85] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? Supposedly some people actually have petitioned that, and been given SP.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
620
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 16:02:31 -
[86] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah? Supposedly some people actually have petitioned that, and been given SP.
Now that's just ridiculous. |
Lina Sovereign
Astromechanica Maxima
Astromechanica Federatis
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 16:09:19 -
[87] - Quote
I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4692
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 18:59:52 -
[88] - Quote
Lina Sovereign wrote:I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription.
So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Lina Sovereign
Astromechanica Maxima
Astromechanica Federatis
3
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Posted - 2016.02.11 19:19:05 -
[89] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lina Sovereign wrote:I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription. So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?
You increase your chances. But it's not a big deal, I started to do PvP, it was fun, now I'll focus on HighSec it's fun too, less stress no risks. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:08:02 -
[90] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lina Sovereign wrote:I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription. So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?
It is pay to win but its been paytowin since plex n character buying were allowed.
if you have more SP likely will beat youre opponent yeah. all other variables being equal. comparisons based on wild inequalities are useless. thats why comparisons are almost always done with only the variable in question being inequal.
Jeff n Joe both sign to EvE, they skill up until they can both fly a Tristan. Joe buys a years worth of skill points and trains all engineering, electronics, weps to 5.
Jeffs about to get his ass kicked. Joe paid to win. Pretty simple.
the only time this is not true is with already trained chars with Tristen related skills maxed.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2430
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:11:32 -
[91] - Quote
but then no knowledge on the game as joe is researching actually buying skills, how and where to inject them while jeff is learning to kite and do pvp mechanics.
jeff wins because jeff knows how to eve, be like jeff
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:20:16 -
[92] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:but then no knowledge on the game as joe is researching actually buying skills, how and where to inject them while jeff is learning to kite and do pvp mechanics.
jeff wins because jeff knows how to eve, be like jeff
You just introduced another variable thats pure speculation. That doesnt work. What does work is Joe has max cap recharge, max speed, tracking, agility, shields, armor, T2 equipment etc etc. Jeffs dead meat :)
obviously there are exceptional players and shite players but when comparing as we have to with the multiple hundred thousand accounts in EvE we need to use avarage players as a baseline. So joe and jeff are both average players.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2430
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:30:00 -
[93] - Quote
proper pay2win would be a new bro buying a 70mil sp char and beating a genuine trained 70mil sp player purely out of sp, but that doesnt happen so its not really pay2win is it?
its all speculation....
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:47:04 -
[94] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:proper pay2win would be a new bro buying a 70mil sp char and beating a genuine trained 70mil sp player purely out of sp, but that doesnt happen so its not really pay2win is it?
its all speculation....
No not all speculation. Its fact that on average EvE players will not be fully trained. Its also fact that you could spend money to be fully trained up. Its fact that the average EvE player is an average pvpr obviously. that means on average those who buy sp will beat those who dont buy SP.
everyone seems to be in massive denial but the reality is you could already buy a char from day one so nothing really had changed.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1914
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:51:32 -
[95] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Lan Wang wrote:proper pay2win would be a new bro buying a 70mil sp char and beating a genuine trained 70mil sp player purely out of sp, but that doesnt happen so its not really pay2win is it?
its all speculation....
No not all speculation. Its fact that on average EvE players will not be fully trained. Its also fact that you could spend money to be fully trained up. Its fact that the average EvE player is an average pvpr obviously. that means on average those who buy sp will beat those who dont buy SP. everyone seems to be in massive denial but the reality is you could already buy a char from day one so nothing really had changed. Doesn't really work like that. A player who trains up to max out a specific ship and/or combat style can't be outmatched by SP in that application even if another player buys more total SP. With individual skills capped at 5 and only a certain number of skills applying to each fit or ship widely divergent SP totals can actually perform the same if not close enough to be indistinguishable. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 08:57:55 -
[96] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Lan Wang wrote:proper pay2win would be a new bro buying a 70mil sp char and beating a genuine trained 70mil sp player purely out of sp, but that doesnt happen so its not really pay2win is it?
its all speculation....
No not all speculation. Its fact that on average EvE players will not be fully trained. Its also fact that you could spend money to be fully trained up. Its fact that the average EvE player is an average pvpr obviously. that means on average those who buy sp will beat those who dont buy SP. everyone seems to be in massive denial but the reality is you could already buy a char from day one so nothing really had changed. Doesn't really work like that. A player who trains up to max out a specific ship and/or combat style can't be outmatched by SP in that application even if another player buys more total SP. With individual skills capped at 5 and only a certain number of skills applying to each fit or ship widely divergent SP totals can actually perform the same if not close enough to be indistinguishable.
While true those max trained players dont matter though in that sense all things being equal we could call that scenario Pay Not To Lose.
The majority of players dont have all engineery, electronics gunnery navigation etc etc to max as well as all ship relevant skills theyre flying to max. the majority are average not elite.
now one of these average guysbcan pay to max elite themselves and stomp all the others.
edit:
while somewhat alliviated by the numbers game the pay to win aspect will transfer even more spectacularly to group play where a non paying fleet will be trounced by paying fleets. its virtually garanteed that corps alliances will now require applicant to PTW to ge accepted or will fund PTW themselves
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
140
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:48:41 -
[97] - Quote
Loss of Skill Points
Focus People!!!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1883
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Loss of Skill Points
Focus People!!!
Loss of skillpoints on injection is necessary to prevent trivial intracharacter remapping, which would be bad for gameplay.
You're more or less the only person in the thread who doesn't seem to grasp this.
No amount of roleplay rationalization is sufficient to counteract a gameplay necessity, so you can quit presenting those as if they matter.
It's not going anywhere. Change your huggies and move on.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Remiel Pollard
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
7511
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:27:19 -
[99] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
now one of these average guysbcan pay to max elite themselves and stomp all the others.
No, they can't. SP are a limited resource, they have to be trained; if enough people are transferring them, they can definitely run dry completely, and as OP so deftly pointed out (something none of us knew about because no one put it in a devblog anywhere or anything like that, and even if they did, reading is hard), SP are lost in the transfer process. Even MORE are lost if the player using the SP already has a lot. It does come with a very sudden and steep point of limited returns where it's just not worth doing anymore.
And, as has been pointed out to you on many occasions, SP don't matter as much as understanding the mechanics. Don't try this 'average player' bulls**t on me either, the average player is just as capable of learning mechanics as the very good ones. How do you think players become good at the game to begin with? Do you think people start this game already being very good at it do you? Get out. I've seen players less than 6 months into the game wipe the floor with your so-called 'pay-to-win' types more than enough times to know how it works, and the only person you're deluding with this nonsense is yourself.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 16:39:28 -
[100] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lina Sovereign wrote:I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription. So if I have more SP I will always defeat you? It is pay to win but its been paytowin since plex n character buying were allowed. if you have more SP likely will beat youre opponent yeah. all other variables being equal. comparisons based on wild inequalities are useless. thats why comparisons are almost always done with only the variable in question being inequal. Jeff n Joe both sign to EvE, they skill up until they can both fly a Tristan. Joe buys a years worth of skill points and trains all engineering, electronics, weps to 5. Jeffs about to get his ass kicked. Joe paid to win. Pretty simple. the only time this is not true is with already trained chars with Tristen related skills maxed.
Doesn't sound like p2w to me.
You can accumulate sp by just login on and adding it to your skill queue, which means it isn't something that gives you an advantage that you can only get by paying cash for it (subscriptions don't count as technically everyone has to do that one way or another). |
|
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
622
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:02:18 -
[101] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Loss of Skill Points
Focus People!!!
Given you're a 2005 character, I can't help but assume this is a stealthy "I wish I could abuse this new mechanic" thread. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1916
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 19:37:55 -
[102] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:While true those max trained players dont matter though in that sense all things being equal we could call that scenario Pay Not To Lose.
The majority of players dont have all engineery, electronics gunnery navigation etc etc to max as well as all ship relevant skills theyre flying to max. the majority are average not elite.
now one of these average guysbcan pay to max elite themselves and stomp all the others. No, he really can't because it's not something available to him alone. A lot of those players he's competing with DO have the relevant cores for the ships they fly, further the ones they don't have they can get the same way through in game assets. Nothing opens up any exclusive of discriminatory options.
Infinity Ziona wrote:edit:
while somewhat alliviated by the numbers game the pay to win aspect will transfer even more spectacularly to group play where a non paying fleet will be trounced by paying fleets. its virtually garanteed that corps alliances will now require applicant to PTW to ge accepted or will fund PTW themselves That's actually where it's minimized rather than of greatest importance. The far bigger benefit there will be to raw numbers and composition than individual SP. I'd more wager at that point injectors see their greatest irrelevance.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:25:13 -
[103] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Lan Wang wrote:proper pay2win would be a new bro buying a 70mil sp char and beating a genuine trained 70mil sp player purely out of sp, but that doesnt happen so its not really pay2win is it?
its all speculation....
No not all speculation. Its fact that on average EvE players will not be fully trained. Its also fact that you could spend money to be fully trained up. Its fact that the average EvE player is an average pvpr obviously. that means on average those who buy sp will beat those who dont buy SP. everyone seems to be in massive denial but the reality is you could already buy a char from day one so nothing really had changed. Doesn't really work like that. A player who trains up to max out a specific ship and/or combat style can't be outmatched by SP in that application even if another player buys more total SP. With individual skills capped at 5 and only a certain number of skills applying to each fit or ship widely divergent SP totals can actually perform the same if not close enough to be indistinguishable. While true those max trained players dont matter though in that sense all things being equal we could call that scenario Pay Not To Lose. The majority of players dont have all engineery, electronics gunnery navigation etc etc to max as well as all ship relevant skills theyre flying to max. the majority are average not elite. now one of these average guysbcan pay to max elite themselves and stomp all the others. edit: while somewhat alliviated by the numbers game the pay to win aspect will transfer even more spectacularly to group play where a non paying fleet will be trounced by paying fleets. its virtually garanteed that corps alliances will now require applicant to PTW to ge accepted or will fund PTW themselves
I am not home so I can't check....but...
Yeah, I pretty much have electronics, shield skills, and the other core skills maxed. I can use all the t2 large guns, the only thing left to train relating to guns would be the large specialization skills to 5. I have something like 18 million SP in gunnery alone.
Yet....I die, and probably to players with less SP than me. If I am in say a Proteus all the gunnery skills for lasers, projectiles, missiles and drones do not matter in the least. If I am in an ishtar and die...all the skills for gunnery skills, missile skills, and SP for carriers, dreadnoughts, interceptors, battle cruisers do not mean ****.
What having a butt-ton of SP gives me the most is versatility. I can fly all racial HACs, all racial BS, all racial destroyers, and I can fly 3 out of 4 racial carriers. But in any given instance the vast bulk of those SP mean...nothing.
The game does not total up players SP when they start shooting each other and the guy with less SP then has ship explode.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
141
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:11:51 -
[104] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:I am not home so I can't check....but...
Just add your character to http://eveboard.com/ and password protect it.
Then you can check your specific skills from anywhere you have internet :-)
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
141
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:14:32 -
[105] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Loss of Skill Points
Focus People!!!
Given you're a 2005 character, I can't help but assume this is a stealthy "I wish I could abuse this new mechanic" thread.
No.
I used 3 extractors to take out worthless skill points and re-injected them. (Still unallocated)
I'm done as far as I can tell.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2438
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:59:13 -
[106] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:Loss of Skill Points
Focus People!!!
Given you're a 2005 character, I can't help but assume this is a stealthy "I wish I could abuse this new mechanic" thread. No. I used 3 extractors to take out worthless skill points and re-injected them. (Still unallocated) I'm done as far as I can tell.
so you're bitter because it didnt benefit you like you would have preferred, or didnt you read before you reinjected?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2438
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:04:15 -
[107] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:edit:
while somewhat alliviated by the numbers game the pay to win aspect will transfer even more spectacularly to group play where a non paying fleet will be trounced by paying fleets. its virtually garanteed that corps alliances will now require applicant to PTW to ge accepted or will fund PTW themselves
so a bit like ship srp where big alliances p2w with moon goo and other alliance income?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
141
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:09:22 -
[108] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:so you're bitter because it didnt benefit you like you would have preferred, or didnt you read before you reinjected?
You're the perfect example of someone who doesn't bother to read a thread before making some snarky comment.
Of course I read the description before I used it and got what I expected.
I'm asking people to look at the "big picture".
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2439
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 22:18:15 -
[109] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so you're bitter because it didnt benefit you like you would have preferred, or didnt you read before you reinjected? You're the perfect example of someone who doesn't bother to read a thread before making some snarky comment. Of course I read the description before I used it and got what I expected. I'm asking people to look at the " big picture".
my first snarky comment was post number 5
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:28:34 -
[110] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
I'm asking people to look at the "big picture".
Seems like a lot of us don't see the same big picture that you do.
|
|
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1897
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:31:29 -
[111] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so you're bitter because it didnt benefit you like you would have preferred, or didnt you read before you reinjected? You're the perfect example of someone who doesn't bother to read a thread before making some snarky comment. Of course I read the description before I used it and got what I expected. I'm asking people to look at the " big picture".
The big picture is that is that lossless on-demand skill point remapping would be bad for the game.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
141
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:35:50 -
[112] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:The big picture is that is that lossless on-demand skill point remapping would be bad for the game.
How could I have forgotten that the forum trolls know everything?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
302
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 23:50:14 -
[113] - Quote
pajedas wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:The big picture is that is that lossless on-demand skill point remapping would be bad for the game. How could I have forgotten that the forum trolls know everything?
I don't think many are trolling you, it's just that you are so sure that the big picture is how you see it, you just won't except any other version. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Northern Army
981
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 01:40:51 -
[114] - Quote
:nopoors:
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
622
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 03:01:45 -
[115] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
I used 3 extractors to take out worthless skill points and re-injected them. (Still unallocated)
I'm done as far as I can tell.
you literally just confirmed what I said. Stop trolling. Please. What exactly do you get from trolling like you are? |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
142
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:18:22 -
[116] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:
I used 3 extractors to take out worthless skill points and re-injected them. (Still unallocated)
I'm done as far as I can tell.
you literally just confirmed what I said. Stop trolling. Please. What exactly do you get from trolling like you are?
You disagree with me so I agree with you and you disagree with that.
That's trolling.
I believe my OP to be true and accurate.
CCP's gain is our loss.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17478
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:32:45 -
[117] - Quote
Every skillpoint that's lost makes mine worth just that little bit more.
I'm especially enjoying the anticipation of the wailing that will happen when CCP make some long neglected skill really useful
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2444
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 15:40:58 -
[118] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:pajedas wrote:
I used 3 extractors to take out worthless skill points and re-injected them. (Still unallocated)
I'm done as far as I can tell.
you literally just confirmed what I said. Stop trolling. Please. What exactly do you get from trolling like you are? You disagree with me so I agree with you and you disagree with that. That's trolling. I believe my OP to be true and accurate. CCP's gain is our loss.
then dont do it?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
142
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 16:26:04 -
[119] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:then dont do it?
Did you even read what you quoted? I said that I was done, having used 3 extractors and re-injecting them.
Look at the overall impact (long term) on the Eve community.
You can go troll somewhere else as you obviously have nothing to add here.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Avvy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
303
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 16:34:39 -
[120] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:then dont do it? Did you even read what you quoted? I said that I was done, having used 3 extractors and re-injecting them. Look at the overall impact (long term) on the Eve community. You can go troll somewhere else as you obviously have nothing to add here.
The sp that is lost wasn't required by the characters that trained them, therefore lost sp doesn't matter. |
|
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2444
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 16:38:05 -
[121] - Quote
Avvy wrote:pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:then dont do it? Did you even read what you quoted? I said that I was done, having used 3 extractors and re-injecting them. Look at the overall impact (long term) on the Eve community. You can go troll somewhere else as you obviously have nothing to add here. The sp that is lost wasn't required by the characters that trained them, therefore lost sp doesn't matter.
exactly! he only has an issue because he wanted to switch his own skills around with no penalty, longterm effect - great, people can now get rid of skills they dont need to people who will use them, next up name changes for aurum!
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 17:57:10 -
[122] - Quote
Avvy wrote:pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:then dont do it? Did you even read what you quoted? I said that I was done, having used 3 extractors and re-injecting them. Look at the overall impact (long term) on the Eve community. You can go troll somewhere else as you obviously have nothing to add here. The sp that is lost wasn't required by the characters that trained them, therefore lost sp doesn't matter.
Good point.
Player takes out "useless" SP, and gets a fraction back to use in non-useless skills.
Should be considered a win. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:14:36 -
[123] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Lan Wang wrote:then dont do it? Did you even read what you quoted? I said that I was done, having used 3 extractors and re-injecting them. Look at the overall impact (long term) on the Eve community. You can go troll somewhere else as you obviously have nothing to add here.
It might be good.
1. New players don't have to wait to get into the "fun stuff". Granted they won't have the experience and will likely die in more pricey ships, but....hey, I didn't make them inject SP and go out and buy a ship they could barely afford put a **** fit on it and jump into Tama. At that point it is, HTFU, welcome to EVE.
2. Players with "useless" SP can now remove them and re-inject and get some of them back to use wherever they like, or they can sell it for ISK, or give it to an alt for use with much lower or no penalty, or give it to a corp mate who is new.
3. More money for CCP, which means they can keep providing the game.
4. One argument I have seen about the SP Problem in the game is that if we were to construct a distribution of SP, we'd find that most of it is with the longer term players. To the extent that this maybe discouraging to newer players (how can I at 2 million SP ever beat a guy with 120 million SP?) then "flattening out" that distribution will reduce this effect. Personally, I'm not completely sold on this argument, but some people make it.
Now, on the other hand markets are tricky things to design. And even though there does not appear to be much down side now...the same thing has been thought about other markets people have created where actual real money was much more involved. Example, the California electricity market in 2000-2001. Complete debacle there and billions and billions of dollars were involved.
So this could all blow up in our collective faces. I know this last one is a bit vague and nebulous, but going back to the CA electricity market...the consequences of that debacle is still on-going, believe it or not. The state's investor owned utilities are looking at the possibility of a death spiral. Residential customers are massively over-investing in solar technology and hmmm...where else did we recently realize we way over invested in something....oh yeah, the housing market.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:15:30 -
[124] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Every skillpoint that's lost makes mine worth just that little bit more.
I'm especially enjoying the anticipation of the wailing that will happen when CCP make some long neglected skill really useful
You are a bad, bad man....so naturally, +1 to you sir. 
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17479
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 18:23:29 -
[125] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Malcanis wrote:Every skillpoint that's lost makes mine worth just that little bit more.
I'm especially enjoying the anticipation of the wailing that will happen when CCP make some long neglected skill really useful You are a bad, bad man....so naturally, +1 to you sir.
X up everyone who's removed Defender Missiles
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25903
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:02:22 -
[126] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Malcanis wrote:Every skillpoint that's lost makes mine worth just that little bit more.
I'm especially enjoying the anticipation of the wailing that will happen when CCP make some long neglected skill really useful You are a bad, bad man....so naturally, +1 to you sir. X up everyone who's removed Defender Missiles People have SP in that?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
187
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 19:07:25 -
[127] - Quote
Avvy wrote:pajedas wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:The big picture is that is that lossless on-demand skill point remapping would be bad for the game. How could I have forgotten that the forum trolls know everything? I don't think many are trolling you, it's just that you are so sure that the big picture is how you see it, you just won't except any other version.
Actually it seems more like, at least to me, that the OP is annoyed because the explanation doesn't make any technological sense; yes there are people out there who liked eve for that reason. The lore technology reason is that the company producing them wants to slowly drain SP from capsuleers for their own nefarious ends so they built secret SP compartments into the extractors so they can recover the spent injectors and crack open the secret compartments.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4697
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Posted - 2016.02.13 19:56:45 -
[128] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Malcanis wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Malcanis wrote:Every skillpoint that's lost makes mine worth just that little bit more.
I'm especially enjoying the anticipation of the wailing that will happen when CCP make some long neglected skill really useful You are a bad, bad man....so naturally, +1 to you sir. X up everyone who's removed Defender Missiles People have SP in that?
Yep, but I believe my character came that way. When I started the starting SP was closer to 800,000 SP and you picked a career. I picked military for this character and since I was Gallente I started with a fair amount of SP in drones...and I think 2-3 levels in defender missiles.
Correction: lvl 1 in defender missiles. So not worth an extractor in and of itself.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
143
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:47:30 -
[129] - Quote
I surrender.
Close thread.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise
Upholders
622
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Posted - 2016.02.14 03:00:49 -
[130] - Quote
pajedas wrote:You disagree with me so I agree with you and you disagree with that.
That's trolling.
I believe my OP to be true and accurate.
CCP's gain is our loss.
One more time, what exactly did you get out of creating this thread to troll? I eagerly await your response.
Jesus, the stupidity. Try harder when you troll next time please. |
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
290
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Posted - 2016.02.14 04:10:07 -
[131] - Quote
pajedas wrote:
I surrender.
Close thread.
NO.
let the people know how dumb you are.
Just Add Water
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