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Nekumi
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
   |
Posted - 2007.02.04 16:33:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Nekumi on 04/02/2007 16:29:55
 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Oh, rest assured, Darius Shakor, I have picked my side long ago, and I will hold to my oaths till death.
How far will the Republic go before you or any of your allies will look at what is happening to what may once have been a noble ideal?
You are betrayed Namtz'aar k'in and it was not by Muritar or Ushra'Khan, the sooner you realise that the sooner this madness will end.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.04 16:53:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/02/2007 16:50:04
Originally by: Nekumi
You are betrayed Namtz'aar k'in and it was not by Muritar or Ushra'Khan, the sooner you realise that the sooner this madness will end.
Again, I am not speaking here as a representative of Namz'aar K'in. I am speaking as a private citizen of the Republic. Many in the alliance do not share my views, and the alliance as a whole is not a Republic supporter.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
|
Posted - 2007.02.04 17:00:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Hakera
I see Midular has instructed her regieme enforcers Namtz'aar k'in to discredit Muritor where possible. It is interesting to see who the real enemies are here. The ones nitpicking over transcripts and sullying the honour of others who actually had a spine strong enough to stand for their people, or Namtz'aar k'in who stand for their wallets.
The Republic is truely sending their finest assassins after us.
That was not needed. Namtz has quite a few non-republic supported in it, however the outspoken ones always seem to be pro-republic. IT might so happen that the ones here are pro-republic I know for a fact quite a few of them in some of the highest positions that have the same ideals as most of UK in regards to the Republic. As a council member of Namtz for almost a year, I know I did.
Blanketing people is a method of the Amarr, not us, keep your assumptions to yourself.
__________________________________________
-= We Fly for our people =-
-= I fly for Blood =- |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.04 17:07:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Haceldema
Did the captain himself not say to Ushra'Khan that his clone is safe? Something smells here and i'm still not sure what....
Indeed.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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Nekumi
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.02.04 17:45:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/02/2007 17:09:37
Originally by: Nekumi
You are betrayed Namtz'aar k'in and it was not by Muritar or Ushra'Khan, the sooner you realise that the sooner this madness will end.
Originally by: Hakera
I see Midular has instructed her regieme enforcers Namtz'aar k'in to discredit Muritor where possible.
Again, I am not speaking here as a representative of Namz'aar K'in. I am speaking as a private citizen of the Republic. Many in the alliance do not share my views, and the alliance as a whole, while pro-Matari, is not a Republic supporter.
Also, I have not once during my piloting career been in direct contact with the Prime Minister or received any orders from her, direct or undirect, concerning this or any other matter, outside of public news pieces and bulletins.
Let's stick to the facts, ok?
Let's clarify those facts then, shall we?
Do you speak for Namtz'arr k'in in the capacity as diplomatic envoy?
Do you Elsebeth Rhiannon, condone and support the Republic actions in the matter of Muritor's assassination?
Do Namtz'arr k'in condone and support the actions of the Republic in the matter of Muritor's assassination?
Are Namtz'arr k'in willing to go to war against their own people in defense of the Republic?
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.04 17:54:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 04/02/2007 17:51:53
Originally by: Nekumi
Let's clarify those facts then, shall we?
Ok.
Quote:
Do you speak for Namtz'arr k'in in the capacity as diplomatic envoy?
No. For NMTZ diplomatic contact, talk to Cz Ire, Xhanserbal, or Pacal Balan.
Quote:
Do you Elsebeth Rhiannon, condone and support the Republic actions in the matter of Muritor's assassination?
In general, I recognize the Fleet's right to try and stop the traitor Karishal Muritor, if necessary by force. Whether I agree with the method and the timing of the particular act, I cannot at this point comment for certain; I would prefer to wait and see if there is a Fleet official statement on the circumstances of the event before making up my mind.
Quote:
Do Namtz'arr k'in condone and support the actions of the Republic in the matter of Muritor's assassination?
No.
Quote:
Are Namtz'arr k'in willing to go to war against their own people in defense of the Republic?
Unknown to me at this point. I would put my money on "no".
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 00:53:00 -
[127]
By the time the first termite sees the light of day the beam has already been lost. This rot has been festering in the Republic for far too long and it runs far too deep.
There is one man who has both the power to remove this decay and the trust of all who fight for the freedom of our people.
Malaetu Shakor, we call upon you now. Dig out this rot, expose the truth behind this crime against our people. You who are born of the Defiants, you who are blinded by the legacy of Amarrian experiments, you who have shaped our world. Help us now end this madness.
Surely you must see that now is the time to rise as one. Killing our bravest and strongest to please the Amarr is wrong beyond words.
Show us the road to victory and we will march it with you. Let us finish what the uprising began together as one people united.
I support Malaetu Shakor for Prime Minister. I urge the free people of the Republic to do the same. We have 18 days.
>> RECRUITING << |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 00:56:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 05/02/2007 00:53:37
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I support Malaetu Shakor for Prime Minister. I urge the free people of the Republic to do the same. We have 18 days.
So the line now is "select as you leader who I want, or else!"? How very supporter of freedom of you.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 02:04:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...Is the line now is "select as our leader who I want, or else!"? How very defender of freedom of you....
I would like to see Malaetu Shakor as Prime Minister. I am not alone in this. I say call for elections.
I think the people should be free to decide who represents them. I think the people should be free to choose their leaders.
Or you can dictate that there should be no elections, that Midular is the unquestioned leader of the Republic and nobody has any say in that. But then it is no longer a Republic, it is a dictatorship and one that puts the interests of the Amarr Empire above those of the Matari.
Free and fair elections or a corrupt dictatorship. I say it is up to people to decide.
>> RECRUITING << |
Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 04:56:00 -
[130]
Do not call me 'an enforcer of Midular's government'. I do not entirely support her actions. And if she is as weak as you claim, then she does not have my support as leader. Come next election, she and the Sebestiors will not recieve my vote.
I believe that peace is the way to solve this. Show the world - the Amarr especially - that the Matari can solve disputes with words and not weapons.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 05:05:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 05/02/2007 01:00:15
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I support Malaetu Shakor for Prime Minister. I urge the free people of the Republic to do the same. We have 18 days.
What happens in 18 days, mm? Is the line now is "select as our leader who I want, or else!"? How very defender of freedom of you.
How very spinster of you to immediately insinuate that it is a threat when it simply continues a count down of 21 days for action. Don't try to twist this, the people see through these manipulations with ease.
|
Sapphrine
Kinda'Shujaa
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 05:07:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Nachshon
Do not call me 'an enforcer of Midular's government'. I do not entirely support her actions. And if she is as weak as you claim, then she does not have my support as leader. Come next election, she and the Sebestiors will not recieve my vote.
I believe that peace is the way to solve this. Show the world - the Amarr especially - that the Matari can solve disputes with words and not weapons.
yes indeed, show an enemy willing to take the minmatar people back by force that all they are capable of is using words instead of decisive action. That will really make them back off wont it!
Will you still be asking for peace when they come for your sons and daughters?
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 05:29:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Nachshon on 05/02/2007 05:27:29
If we enter a civil war, the Amarr will say that we are incapable of peaceful discourse, and will use this as an excuse to invade. Furthermore, we will be weak, and will probably lose.
And if they assume that our usage of words means we are weak, then they will be in for a nasty surprise. For when the Minmatar are united and strong, we are invincible.
__________________________________________
What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Chishan
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 08:24:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Chishan on 05/02/2007 08:22:50
Edited by: Chishan on 05/02/2007 08:21:22
Originally by: Nachshon
Edited by: Nachshon on 05/02/2007 05:27:29
If we enter a civil war, the Amarr will say that we are incapable of peaceful discourse, and will use this as an excuse to invade. Furthermore, we will be weak, and will probably lose.
And if they assume that our usage of words means we are weak, then they will be in for a nasty surprise. For when the Minmatar are united and strong, we are invincible.
I see no need for civil war if Midular takes her responsibilities to the Republic seriously. If the people choose another, it is her duty to step aside. The only reason the people of the Republic would have to fear civil war is if Midular attempts to retain office against the will of the people. If the people demand that she steps aside, it is her duty to obey them.
Personally, I expect no such grace from the woman.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 09:42:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Chishan
I see no need for civil war if Midular takes her responsibilities to the Republic seriously. The only reason the people of the Republic would have to fear civil war is if Midular attempts to retain office against the will of the people. If the people demand that she steps aside, it is her duty to obey them.
If the tribes do that, yes.
However, Ushra'Khan is not "the people" any more than Gradient is "the people".
I see nothing here again but "lead the country our way, or else!" And you see you see no reason for civil war?
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 10:14:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Originally by: Chishan
I see no need for civil war if Midular takes her responsibilities to the Republic seriously. The only reason the people of the Republic would have to fear civil war is if Midular attempts to retain office against the will of the people. If the people demand that she steps aside, it is her duty to obey them.
If the tribes do that, yes.
However, Ushra'Khan is not "the people" any more than Gradient is "the people".
I see nothing here again but "lead the country our way, or else!" And you see you see no reason for civil war?
Everyday you sound more and more like an Amarrian. How many times do we have to say we are calling for elections. Elections in which the people will decide who leads them? Elections in which the Matari people can choose their own path freely.
The only people who would see a call for elections as a declaration of civil war are despots and dictators. War is the only way tyrants know how to deal with freedom.
It was the Republic that started hostilities. It was Midular's people that you are so quick to defend that started murdering their own. But of course, we are not the Matari people in your eyes, what are we? terrorists? escaped slaves? a contract waiting to be executed?
Not so long ago Namtz'aar k'in were here crying out for racial unity when Trinity Nova were contracted against them. Yet now here you are condoning and supporting the murder of Matari Freedom Fighters and your people dare to call us hypocrites.
>> RECRUITING << |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 10:28:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
The only people who would see a call for elections as a declaration of civil war are despots and dictators. War is the only way tyrants know how to deal with freedom.
Don't put words in my mouth, Thrace.
Calling for elections is not a threat. As I said elsewhere, in this current situation even I migh support any such peaceful call that I see.
However, I have not seen such a call, not from U'K officially or you personally. All I have seen is declaration of the current legal head of state as your number one enemy and some idle threats with various numbers of days and outcomes - your "select Malaetu Shakor, you have 18 days", Hakera's "we mourn for 9 days and then we fill the skies of Matar", and so forth.
If you want a call for elections, make one, make one that people can subscribe to, without these threats and ultimatums and veiled hints of dire consequences.
And at least until you have made that call and waited your designated number of days (as soon as you can decide what that number is) pull back that threat on our current legal head of state - you cannot believably at the same time speak of legal re-election and show that little respect for the current legally elected prime minister.
Quote:
It was the Republic that started hostilities. It was Midular's people that you are so quick to defend that started murdering their own.
Taking down a known criminal who has refused to come peacably is not murder.
Quote:
Not so long ago Namtz'aar k'in were here crying out for racial unity when Trinity Nova were contracted against them. Yet now here you are condoning and supporting the murder of Matari Freedom Fighters and your people dare to call us hypocrites.
For the thousandth time, Namtz'aar K'in as an alliance does not support the Fleet's actions.
What the **** are they doing to you in U'K, Thrace? You used to be able to keep your facts straight in politics and still do good PR. Now all you do is twist words and spew propaganda and veiled threats.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 10:38:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 05/02/2007 10:45:21
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Everyday you sound more and more like an Amarrian. How many times do we have to say we are calling for elections. Elections in which the people will decide who leads them? Elections in which the Matari people can choose their own path freely.
Your alliances initial announcement of a bounty payment for the murder of the Republics leader. Certainly not for peaceful elections. Many of your pilots even stated the time for peace is over. The Ushra'Khans methods are certainly not allowing the people of Matar to choose their own path freely.
Your the one sounding like an Amarrian, twisting and turning like a snake. Either that or your members cannot make their minds up. Do Ushra'Khan want elections or murder?
I'm glad we now appear to be getting somewhere and that elections would be a solution that could be acceptable to all parties.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
|
Lowanaera
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 10:39:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
What the **** are they doing to you in U'K, Thrace? You used to be able to keep your facts straight in politics and still do good PR. Now all you do is twist words and spew propaganda and veiled threats.
Now you NMTZ see what it is like to be on the other end of Ushra'Khan's ham-fisted "diplomacy", the irony is not without amusement.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 11:34:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 05/02/2007 11:34:25
Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 05/02/2007 11:31:18
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Calling for elections is not a threat. As I said elsewhere, in this current situation even I migh support any such peaceful call that I see.
However, I have not seen such a call, not from U'K officially or you personally....
I am used to this rubbish from slavers but the Republic I knew didn't choose to blatantly ignore quite so much. Lets try..
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
..You believe in democracy? you believe in the representation of the tribes? Then call for an election immediately! Take to the streets, fill the skies over Matar with your ships, petition your elders for a motion of no confidence in Midular. Let us see the manner in which our brothers wish to be represented and let us see it now. You have three weeks to convince us that Matari blood has not become thin in the homeland...
Might want to check the date on that, 2007.02.02 10:29:00. Since then just to make sure only the blind or belligerent could miss it.....
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
...
We want re-elections. We also want justice.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Chishan is quite right. I once served the Republic. In my opinion the Republic is a good system. I would like to see some changes.....It is time for new leadership. It is time for a new Republic. A Rebuplic for the people and of the people. All of them.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
...We are calling for regime change. We are calling for elections. It is the Republicans sending out death squads and talking about civil war...You want a political solution? We demand Midular step down. We demand elections....
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
...You are free Matari, made so by Freedom Fighters like Drupar & Karishal. Millions more of our kin are yet to be freed. Stand now and be counted, demand Republic Elections now...
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
...This leadership must stand down. For the good of the Republic, for the good of the tribes and for the future of the Matari people.
If you wish to see our people free rise now. If you wish to see the Republic made strong then raise your voices now and call for elections. If you want to see an end to the slaver raids then darken the skies of Pator with ships and demand action from your leaders. You have 19 days in which to act...
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I would like to see Malaetu Shakor as Prime Minister. I am not alone in this. I say call for elections....Free and fair elections or a corrupt dictatorship. I say it is up to people to decide.
So, you didn’t see any of that? Really?
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...…idle threats with various numbers of days and outcomes - your "select Malaetu Shakor, you have 18 days", Hakera's "we mourn for 9 days and then we fill the skies of Matar", and so forth.
How is that a threat? If we don’t set a deadline you Republican slackers will still be trying to tell us Karishal is not really dead 15 years from now and we will still be waiting. So Hakera plans a peaceful protest over the skies of Pator like we have done so many times before, now you consider it a threat?
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...…your designated number of days (as soon as you can decide what that number is)
We published the deadline every day since the countdown started. I’ll remind you every day here on in. I know it appears to be getting smaller but that’s because it decrements by 1 every 24 hours.
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...…Taking down a known criminal who has refused to come peacably is not murder…
Last I looked Midular has listed us freedom fighters all as criminals. So we should all share the same fate as Karishal then? Is that how you justify all your talk of civil war?
...
>> RECRUITING << |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 11:36:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 05/02/2007 11:35:25
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
...…For the thousandth time, Namtz'aar K'in as an alliance does not support the Fleet's actions.
What the **** are they doing to you in U'K, Thrace? You used to be able to keep your facts straight…
That fence you sit on won’t support you forever. So I am lying am I. Prove then that anything I have said is falsehood.
Originally by: Aodha Khan
…Many of your pilots even stated the time for peace is over. The Ushra'Khans methods are certainly not allowing the people of Matar to choose their own path freely.…
The time for peace is over. We must strike at the Empire and free our people. Instead the Republic talks of civil war or do you regard those as the same thing?
Elections, how is that not the Matari people choosing their own path freely?
Originally by: Aodha Khan
…Do Ushra'Khan want elections or murder? …
We want elections. We also want justice for the assassination of Karishal Muritor. The head of the guilty party as tradition dictates. Or do you deny our ways?
Originally by: Aodha Khan
…I'm glad we now appear to be getting somewhere and that elections would be a solution that could be acceptable to all parties.
Good, then call for them. Get everyone to call for them. We can but as outlaws under Midulars regime the Republic tends to ignore us. I am not even sure if we would get a vote.
>> RECRUITING << |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 12:00:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Originally by: Chishan
I see no need for civil war if Midular takes her responsibilities to the Republic seriously. The only reason the people of the Republic would have to fear civil war is if Midular attempts to retain office against the will of the people. If the people demand that she steps aside, it is her duty to obey them.
If the tribes do that, yes.
However, Ushra'Khan is not "the people" any more than Gradient is "the people".
I see nothing here again but "lead the country our way, or else!" And you see you see no reason for civil war?
The real question here you have never asked out loud is 'Does Midular represent the people?'
That is the more importan issue. That is why we are raising our voices. People will sit in a happy stupor in the Republic getting on with their plannet bound lives. They don't see what we see. So we have to raise our voices to let them see and decide for themselves. Of course this cannot be done without damning the Republic and its short sighted leader since that is, after all, our point of view we want people to see and decide if they agree on or not.
Thrace's, and by extension the Ushra'Khan's support of Malaetu Shakor is simply that. Support. We make no demands that it must be him exactly. This is a nomination simply because there is no point asking for a change if we have no ideas what that change must be. Makes sense now doesn't it.
Now try to stop spinning. I fear you will fall on your face sooner or later.
------
Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 12:13:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 05/02/2007 12:12:19
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
We want elections. We also want justice for the assassination of Karishal Muritor. The head of the guilty party as tradition dictates. Or do you deny our ways?
There has been no trial or investigation nor proof of Muritors death and you want someones head. These are your ways?
A thorough investigation into what happened is required before the killing starts, not before. If it turns out that Midular used her power and influence illegally then a call for no confidence can be decided by our elders. I suggest that it is time for an election anyway, due to the unrest with the current government.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Good, then call for them. Get everyone to call for them.
I support any call to make these elections happen.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
|
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 12:23:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Aodha Khan
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 05/02/2007 12:12:19
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
We want elections. We also want justice for the assassination of Karishal Muritor. The head of the guilty party as tradition dictates. Or do you deny our ways?
There has been no trial or investigation nor proof of Muritors death and you want someones head. These are your ways?
A thorough investigation into what happened is required before the killing starts, not before. If it turns out that Midular used her power and influence illegally then a call for no confidence can be decided by our elders. I suggest that it is time for an election anyway, due to the unrest with the current government.
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Good, then call for them. Get everyone to call for them.
I support any call to make these elections happen.
You know I thought I had repeated enough. Do I have to get the crayons out. Repeat...
Muritor.
is.
dead.
The Ushra'Khan were there when it happened, funnily enough we know who killed him and why.
I'll support the call of course for what it's worth but, and by the gods I hope this gets through, I'm an outlaw. I can't really walk into the Republic Parliment and exercise my rights.
I know the Republic is not used to action but someone step up to the plate.
>> RECRUITING << |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 12:36:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
You know I thought I had repeated enough. Do I have to get the crayons out. Repeat...
Muritor.
is.
dead.
Muritor admitted to having a clone somewhere safe to members of the Ushra'Khan. He was then podkilled. So he should be in his new clone, the location, who knows at this point.
Now, I'll make this is clear as I can for you, provide proof to show otherwise..
You can repeat it all you want, write it on your forehead if you wish, it doesn't mean it's true.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
|
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.02.05 12:54:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I'll support the call of course for what it's worth but, and by the gods I hope this gets through, I'm an outlaw. I can't really walk into the Republic Parliment and exercise my rights.
I don't know what drugs you use, Thrace, but I could sure use some of the same stuff.
What "this" gets through? I have still not seen anyone call for any election. I have asked for a statement from the Republic; whether we get it or not remains to be seen (and I have not seen you support that, by the way...)
Ushra'Khan has only threatened to open hostilities on the Republic.
Where is the movement to start the elections? Is all you can do threaten and then say "ok, if someone else does the actual job of achieving what we want, maybe we'll pull back the threats"?
For the record, I hold no authority in the Republic government other than that of a private citizen. I have no private connections, no favours high-up that I can pull. I cannot walk to the Republic parliament either, and make things happen.
If you want a public movement demanding elections, by gods, organize one! You can do it as well as I can, this talk about being an outlaw preventing it is nonsense. The Fleet does not shoot you if you enter Republic space.
(( And for the record, I find asking people to do something that requires CCP-level powers and then blaming them when they cannot to be cheap RP tactics. ;) ))
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 13:24:00 -
[147]
((To discuss the finer points of this whole thing Else, lets not do it here. Here is much better.))
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3 |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.05 13:54:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I'll support the call of course for what it's worth but, and by the gods I hope this gets through, I'm an outlaw. I can't really walk into the Republic Parliment and exercise my rights.
What "this" gets through?
The fact that I am an outlaw and can’t demand elections anymore than I can run for Emperor.
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I have still not seen anyone call for any election. I have asked for a statement from the Republic; whether we get it or not remains to be seen (and I have not seen you support that, by the way...)
No, nor have I. I take it the citizens of the Republic are either scared of the Fleet or they whole heartedly support killing those who fight to free our people. Why whould I sign any document stating loyalty to Midular and her Republic? Why would I ask them for instructions on what to do or how to server them?
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Ushra'Khan has only threatened to open hostilities on the Republic.
Where?
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Where is the movement to start the elections? Is all you can do threaten and then say "ok, if someone else does the actual job of achieving what we want, maybe we'll pull back the threats"?
For the record, I hold no authority in the Republic government other than that of a private citizen. I have no private connections, no favours high-up that I can pull. I cannot walk to the Republic parliament either, and make things happen.
If you want a public movement demanding elections, by gods, organize one! You can do it as well as I can, this talk about being an outlaw preventing it is nonsense. The Fleet does not shoot you if you enter Republic space.
The minimum you need to make a call for elections is to be a citizen of the Republic. I am not. I can dodge the slavers and the Fleet and demand anything I like in orbit over Pator but it will carry no weight.
Threats? Doing the job? We are the ones out here on the rim fighting to free our people while the Republic sends death squads for one of the finest commanders the cause has seen since the uprising.
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
(( And for the record, I find asking people to do something that requires CCP-level powers and then blaming them when they cannot to be cheap RP tactics. ;) ))
((We asked for the citizens of the Republic to call for elections. Is it really such a stretch to take that to mean every player who resides in the Republic and has at the very least a passing interest in RP? This was never addressed to NMTZ, who have repeatedly claimed not to support the Republic. It was not personally labelled “For the attention of Gradient c/o Elsebeth Rhiannon”. You decided it was and you took it upon yourself to rattle on for 5(?) pages before dismissing this as cheap RP. Nobody put a gun to your head and brought you to this thread. I find this comment insulting.
It does not take CCP intervention for anyone interested to stand up and protest or start calling for regime change. The interest and action of the players is of much importance in this as Event team involvement. If you will not call for elections that is your choice and you are responsible for that, that goes for everyone. If the Parliament denies that call, or more to the point CCP don’t want elections then of course no player is responsible. Players cannot force NPCs to act but they can decide where they stand. Can I blame anyone apart from CCP if there are no elections? Of course not, grow up. Can I blame you IC for supporting people that shot my IC friend? Damn straight I can.
This is an Event driven arc, Event staff are very much active in this. There is official involvement. Who knows, we may even get our elections. Then again we may not but I have said way more than I would have liked. I hate going OOC and I hate it when people involve themselves in my RP only to insult it. I expected more.))
>> RECRUITING << |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.05 14:37:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 05/02/2007 14:35:25
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Ushra'Khan has only threatened to open hostilities on the Republic.
Where?
Damn you for having me go through this nonsense once more, but here goes.
Bounty - Karin Midular - Dead or Alive - the topic of that thread says quite a lot already, but let me quote from it to you:
Originally by: "Maggot"
the leader of the Minmatar Republic, Karin Midular, has been declared the number one enemy of the Ushra'khan.
Karin Midular is the legal head of state of the Minmatar Republic.
Originally by: "Spiderweb"
Please remove your 8.24 standing with me from your treacherous Republic Fleet villains. Its a stain on my history now. I have set all your drones of hypocricy and treachery to -5 and now you will face the concequences of the death of my warrior Brother.
I doubt those consequences mean a stern talking-to.
Originally by: "Hakera"
Our traditions allow for nine days of mourning. When that ends, the skies above Matar will fill with the song of the rightous. We are coming home to put our house in order.
If that is your idea of a call for peaceful demonstration, you have indeed changed a lot...
Originally by: "Forty Three"
I fully support Admiral Maggot's reaction in this... Down with Midular!!!
Mind you Maggot's reaction was not a peaceful call for re-election.
Originally by: "Cipher7"
If the Republic is just going to become a surrogate of the Empire, then what exactly are you supporting?
Either look after the People. Or the People will look after themselves, by any means necessary.
Emphasis from the original.
Originally by: "Hakera"
Make no mistake when I say this, if the government are not removed from power and leadership restored to the tribes, measures will be taken which their assassins & puppets will not be able to cover up what is coming.
Decide quickly where you stand.
That is not a threat?
And, as a final quote:
Quote:
"I swear to support and defend the Minmatar Republic, its people, policies, holdings, and agents, its sovereignty and the integrity of its territory against all enemies and usurpers, foreign and domestic."
This is the oath I have taken.
I am sorry if I misread the intent of the U'K.
If so, it should be a simple matter to clarify, taking only a short official statement from your council - something to the effect that only peaceful means of demonstration will be taken at this time, and that indeed contrary to the first statement, the Empire and not your kin still is your primary enemy.
Other than that, I do not think this argument is going anywhere. I will drop the subject for now and hope everyone sees the light - in both Ushra'Khan and my government - before this goes too far.
--
Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Merdaneth
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:30:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 05/02/2007 16:30:08
I am sad.
Not because Muritor was slain. He was a terrorist, a thief and a traitor. He knew that he broke the law, he knew what the risks were, and he willingly chose to continue with his course of action. The Republic did nothing more than uphold the law.
Make no mistake, Muritor could have easily followed the path of honor: resign from Republic Fleet, renounce his citizenship and join one of the terrorist organizations and fight for his vision of the future with them. I have no doubt they would have welcomed him.
But Muritor did not. He was arrogant, he thought his vision was better than anyone else, and certainly better than those of his superiors. So he started a personal vendetta, squandering the trust others had placed in him. His vision of the future did not include things like loyalty, sacrifice, honor, truth and fellowship.
I am sad because Ushra'Khan uses his death to push forward their own agenda. To have them call out for new elections is laughable. They have never submitted themselves to Republic law before. Any election result that did not favor them, they would simply cast aside, claiming the fight for freedom comes from a higher authority.
I am sad because the Minmatar are slowly regressing back towards aggressive tribes they once were, more concerned with pointless struggles and barbaric forms of justice than true advancement.
I am sad because this is partially our fault. We should have been stronger, not so trusting. We should have prevented the rebellion. We let our children out into the world before they were ready, and now many who ran away from home have fallen in with a bad crowd and turned to a life of crime and depravity.
I am sad because the Ushra'Khan now consider themselves judges, jury and executioners. Their jurisdiction extending beyond the Amarr, but now including anyone they don't agree with. Do you even know those you call Ļour peopleĻ anymore? Don't you have any respect left for authority and the rule of law?
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