This, the only high sec clones I have exist in high sec BECAUSE of the safety. If you think I'm putting them in places where they can be destroyed whilst I'm extended afk and not even using them, then you are huffing bleach.

I'm pretty sure we all have that "vacation clone"

Yup. But dumb mechanic remains dumb.

But your going to need better points or it just hurts the argument

There are 20 pages of reasons why the tax and clone cost are bad. If they really need more reasons after that, there's something wrong.

The clone yes the market tax arguments generally come down to people feeling preemptively jealous of who ever is gong to hold valuable market citadels or that a new isk sink is opening up affecting them

Ok, then you must have read something much different than I did. To me it seems like the response to increasing taxes is people explaining how that won't move people into citadels because of risk, while destroying the station trading profession and making it harder to get stuff.

There are 20 pages of reasons why the tax and clone cost are bad. If they really need more reasons after that, there's something wrong.

If you're really that worried that your beloved market hub will be decced, then why not help defend it?

LOL, the Reddit thread had over 1000 replies within 12 hours. The response was overwhelmingly negative.

A citadel owner may decide to play another game. Or he might have a stroke and go to hospital. Or he might go on a vacation. Whatever the case, the citadel will run out of fuel eventually and I'm looking at 600+ orders vanishing into thin air, and a 10% bill on my assets. There's no "defence" against that. (maybe this is something that CCP can look at, allowing citadel residents to contribute fuel)

The response on clone jumps costs was largely negative, but the trading cost part has mostly been 3-4 people yelling very loudly, constantly.

That doesn't make an overwhelming negative, unless you are talking US politics.

The response on clone jumps costs was largely negative, but the trading cost part has mostly been 3-4 people yelling very loudly, constantly. That doesn't make an overwhelming negative, unless you are talking US politics.

Lets consider me writing a dev post, containing two propositions:
- In the next patch, Jita will be deleted to stimulate trading elsewhere.
- In the next patch, the Omist region will be deleted because reasons.

Even though Omist contains what, 20 systems, what would receive the larger response? Jita of course. I'm never in Omist, why would i bother commenting on it being deleted? The same applies to jump clones and trading. Virtually everyone uses jump clones but only a small subset of the player base is primarily involved in station trading. Just imagine the response we would get if CCP announced they would (temporally) nerf dreads in an attempt to have more fighter carriers deployed to test the new mechanics. Would i care? Nope. Would a group of other people care for rather valid reasons? Yes.

On the whole, Citadels can be interesting and perhaps eventually lucrative for trading. But it would be a lot more convenient if those things were actually build and given a change to settle in before simply throwing game mechanics around to enforce them.

5m clone cost, increased market and contract tax ... wtf CCP

Don't force players to use certain features by making artifcial benefits. You always emphasize that EVE is a sandbox and players can do what they want. Now you force us to use POSes if we want to stay competetive. Guess what? Im not interested in POSes. I never was. I prefer a nomadic lifestyle.

Every year EVE gets more rules, more restrictions, more leveling of ships, etc. I don't like this trend.

The response on clone jumps costs was largely negative, but the trading cost part has mostly been 3-4 people yelling very loudly, constantly.

That doesn't make an overwhelming negative, unless you are talking US politics.

But your going to need better points or it just hurts the argument

While I like the idea of more player control about eve, this is moving too far into the regions where other players can effectively control how and where I play eve for my taste. Eve is already a game that is at times as tedious and overcomplicated as it's fun and engaging. The market and jumpclone changes will only make this worse, even more so if you are a casual player without some big alliance logistic backbone. Every change that makes actual gameplay require more logistic/clicks/hassle in general will make casual scrubs like me pause and think if hitting "find game" in CS:GO isn't the better use of my time. Don't lose the "small guy" from focus when you plan some big poweblock endgame.

Just to be sure, I went back and checked the number of unique names. Before getting tired I got to about 90 different people saying negative things about the brokers fee and tax increases. I encourage you to go find only 3-4 specific people yelling loudly.

The response on clone jumps costs was largely negative, but the trading cost part has mostly been 3-4 people yelling very loudly, constantly.

That doesn't make an overwhelming negative, unless you are talking US politics.

There are more than 3-4 people whop disagree with them, but there a disproportionate is coming from a few people.

Kaivar Lancer for example, is 18 posts complaining by himself.
Sgt Ocker, 9 posts
epicurus ataraxia, 10 posts
Scotsman Howard 9 posts

And that's a few notable glances from the pages I posted on.

So yeah, there are a few people yelling loudly, and a lot more grumbling quietly, but we can't look at the vocal outcry of the few and assume everyone hates it, because a forum thread where the loudest people get the most facetime is not a good representation of the opinions of the playerbase.

And all the people who don't care? They are absent. All the people who like it? They mostly don't bother posting. And that's just out of the very small minority of players who actually use this forum.

I am really disappointed that although you quoted me you actually have not read a word I have said.
NOT one single word was directly related to the trading aspect, I deliberately avoided that to keep my message clear,

and that message is (simplified for those of a short attention span) that CCP need to make Citadels places people want to be, and not attempt to drive them (unwillingly and resentfully) there at the point of a gun.

But if people do not read, I guess it doesn't matter what I write does it.

Re posted to take account of ninja edit.

Would it be possible to compensate for the market tax changes by further increasing the effect of standings/skills most of traders spent quite a lot of time and effort getting?