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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
910
   |
Posted - 2016.04.18 22:04:21 -
[1471] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
You also seem not to grasp the concept of the System Indices either when it comes to manufacturing - for when building something it takes 10s of thousands of people who aren't the rich pod-pilots. But then you reject the 'lore' or logic.
Can't you read? I clearly stated why I feel wormholes should have some benefits. isk is not one of the materials required for manufacturing so please stop this dumb argument. Do you pay the crew on your ships, do you have to pay to refuel your ship?... NO, you don't! To satisfy your RP needs, imagine that all systems in wormhole citadels are automated, if it makes you happy.
Ok, so we have a guy from a wormhole group asking for something for free. Nothing new there, the richest sector on TQ are always crying about how hard wormhole life is.
Hint; It's meant to be that way, if it wasn't everyone would live in wormholes.
As for RP, if it were a thing, Citadels in wormholes would cost a lot more in fees etc due to their isolation - Even automation requires upkeep, or would you expect that to be free as well.....
So how about some new benefits for wormholes using citadels - You can put a clone there now, you can build a local market; you can select when you want to defend your Citadel; you have all the benefits of a Citadel now like docking, tethering, unlimited personal storage; you can if you choose even rent offices to whomever you like; plus a lot more advantages never before seen in wormholes.
I'd imagine, for wormhole hunters being able to have your allies dock with you while preparing for a raid would not be a real benefit, would it......
And you want no fees in wormholes why? Oh right,because wormholers are special and should be handed isk concessions for living in the wealthiest part of TQ - Like transaction fees would break a wormholers wallet because buying locally instead of having to travel to highsec for everything you need would not be enough of a benefit.
And if you want complete asset safety - Don't live in a wormhole.
NB; Isk is very much a part of manufacturing - You can't start a job in a station or citadel without isk.
Rek Seven - Stop making all wormhole dwellers look bad, asking for handouts, really - Just stop.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2209
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 22:45:21 -
[1472] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
You also seem not to grasp the concept of the System Indices either when it comes to manufacturing - for when building something it takes 10s of thousands of people who aren't the rich pod-pilots. But then you reject the 'lore' or logic.
Can't you read? I clearly stated why I feel wormholes should have some benefits. isk is not one of the materials required for manufacturing so please stop this dumb argument. Do you pay the crew on your ships, do you have to pay to refuel your ship?... NO, you don't! To satisfy your RP needs, imagine that all systems in wormhole citadels are automated, if it makes you happy. Ok, so we have a guy from a wormhole group asking for something for free. Nothing new there, the richest sector on TQ are always crying about how hard wormhole life is. Hint; It's meant to be that way, if it wasn't everyone would live in wormholes. As for RP, if it were a thing, Citadels in wormholes would cost a lot more in fees etc due to their isolation - Even automation requires upkeep, or would you expect that to be free as well..... So how about some new benefits for wormholes using citadels - You can put a clone there now, you can build a local market; you can select when you want to defend your Citadel; you have all the benefits of a Citadel now like docking, tethering, unlimited personal storage; you can if you choose even rent offices to whomever you like; plus a lot more advantages never before seen in wormholes. I'd imagine, for wormhole hunters being able to have your allies dock with you while preparing for a raid would not be a real benefit, would it...... And you want no fees in wormholes why? Oh right,because wormholers are special and should be handed isk concessions for living in the wealthiest part of TQ - Like transaction fees would break a wormholers wallet because buying locally instead of having to travel to highsec for everything you need would not be enough of a benefit. And if you want complete asset safety - Don't live in a wormhole. NB; Isk is very much a part of manufacturing - You can't start a job in a station or citadel without isk. Rek Seven - Stop making all wormhole dwellers look bad, asking for handouts, really - Just stop.
the post i made a few months back better explains why WHs need 0 tax in order to actualy make them viable to be publicly available.(in my signature)
the main reason is no asset safty this means you have a HUGE risk compared to other areas of space when using these and a market (should you want it to be open) would tell everyone in system just what it is they would get if they popped it
basically the idea is more risk more reward
Citadel worm hole tax
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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
Superior Eve Engineering
41
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 23:46:25 -
[1473] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:So will you be monitoring to see actually how many people move out of stations in high sec to citadels? Will we be getting updates after a certain amount of time as to how successful this idea was (other than raising prices across the board)?
Just curious as we are still waiting on other updates on features such as the jump fatigue blog that was promised a while ago.
Not trying to be salty here, but this is one change I honestly cannot support as it will only hurt the player base in the long run with higher prices.
I honestly dont see how that is a problem nor how it will it hurt the player base. There are ample ways of making isk to the point that some people are running around with a trillion isk. I admit thats not the same for the younger generation in EVE but even from looking at the age of your character, I can only assume that you werent around when prices on T2 ships and modules were priced very high in the region of t2 large guns costing 20-30mil each and cloaks 50-80mil each and so on. I could be wrong though, it could be a alt of a alt of a alt......
Back then people still paid those amounts over and over again for ship replacements and fittings especially for pvp, admittedly not everyone flew T2 spec'd ships due to lack of skills and because they didnt want to spend that much on them. It doesnt mean it hurt the player base though, they just adapted to how things were back then and its pretty much the same when citadels come out. I doubt the prices we have now even with a slight inflation with the introduction of the citadels will no where near hit those figures so players shouldnt have no trouble at all paying for them or even inventing them to either build or use themselves. |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 08:23:57 -
[1474] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:...................
isk is not one of the materials required for manufacturing so please stop this dumb argument. Do you pay the crew on your ships, do you have to pay to refuel your ship?... NO, you don't! ...........
Actually I have always fervently wished for ships to use fuel, need maintenance and crew to have 'pay' (which could all be simply wrapped up in a 'fuel' requirement. Indeed I only wish we had modified Einsteinian physics rather than (originally Star Wars inspired) flight-sim movement
Isk in game, just like all 'money' IRL is not real - it's just a concept and used to relate transactions.
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2219
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 08:32:52 -
[1475] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
How is wanting a trade off for no asset security not fair?
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2205
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 08:52:51 -
[1476] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
You also seem not to grasp the concept of the System Indices either when it comes to manufacturing - for when building something it takes 10s of thousands of people who aren't the rich pod-pilots. But then you reject the 'lore' or logic.
Can't you read? I clearly stated why I feel wormholes should have some benefits. isk is not one of the materials required for manufacturing so please stop this dumb argument. Do you pay the crew on your ships, do you have to pay to refuel your ship?... NO, you don't! To satisfy your RP needs, imagine that all systems in wormhole citadels are automated, if it makes you happy. Ok, so we have a guy from a wormhole group asking for something for free. Nothing new there, the richest sector on TQ are always crying about how hard wormhole life is. Hint; It's meant to be that way, if it wasn't everyone would live in wormholes. As for RP, if it were a thing, Citadels in wormholes would cost a lot more in fees etc due to their isolation - Even automation requires upkeep, or would you expect that to be free as well..... So how about some new benefits for wormholes using citadels - You can put a clone there now, you can build a local market; you can select when you want to defend your Citadel; you have all the benefits of a Citadel now like docking, tethering, unlimited personal storage; you can if you choose even rent offices to whomever you like; plus a lot more advantages never before seen in wormholes. I'd imagine, for wormhole hunters being able to have your allies dock with you while preparing for a raid would not be a real benefit, would it...... And you want no fees in wormholes why? Oh right,because wormholers are special and should be handed isk concessions for living in the wealthiest part of TQ - Like transaction fees would break a wormholers wallet because buying locally instead of having to travel to highsec for everything you need would not be enough of a benefit. And if you want complete asset safety - Don't live in a wormhole. NB; Isk is very much a part of manufacturing - You can't start a job in a station or citadel without isk. Rek Seven - Stop making all wormhole dwellers look bad, asking for handouts, really - Just stop.
You don't have a clue mate and you are ignoring my point.
It's simple; if there is no asset safety in W-space like there is everywhere else, wormholes should get some benefits that others space does not have.
CCP are giving you asset safety because they know you are weak and would cry like spoiled children if your stuff got permanently destroyed. HTFU like wormholers =ƒÿÄ
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 16:11:47 -
[1477] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
How is wanting a trade off for no asset security not fair?
Rek Seven wrote:.....................
It's simple; if there is no asset safety in W-space like there is everywhere else, wormholes should get some benefits that others space does not have.
......
WH do get benefits for that lack of safety - the chance to farm away for great rewards.
That, for example, one can farm HS incusions for massive reward at little risk is a separate issue...
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Violence of Action.
108
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 20:52:43 -
[1478] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
How is wanting a trade off for no asset security not fair? Rek Seven wrote:.....................
It's simple; if there is no asset safety in W-space like there is everywhere else, wormholes should get some benefits that others space does not have.
......
WH do get benefits for that lack of safety - the chance to farm away for great rewards. That, for example, one can farm HS incusions for massive reward at little risk is a separate issue...
Except that in the same update the biggest source of farmable income is becoming far harder to farm. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2231
|
Posted - 2016.04.19 22:31:10 -
[1479] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
How is wanting a trade off for no asset security not fair? Rek Seven wrote:.....................
It's simple; if there is no asset safety in W-space like there is everywhere else, wormholes should get some benefits that others space does not have.
......
WH do get benefits for that lack of safety - the chance to farm away for great rewards. That, for example, one can farm HS incusions for massive reward at little risk is a separate issue... Except that in the same update the biggest source of farmable income is becoming far harder to farm.
also if thats the case then null should not get it either i can make a lot more isk out there than i can in a c1 or c2
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zad Murrard
Frozen Dawn Inc
Frozen Dawn Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 06:09:24 -
[1480] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Zad Murrard wrote:Just tried with my sheets in 2 different businesses what the taxation changes would do
assuming that everything else stays the same.
First business, will get 16-17% less profits
Second business, will get 13-14% less profits
=> No reason to change to citadels. Could probably live with 30% less profits and still be ok. Factor in "pay 10% of all your wares' worth since the Market Hub was blown up and you need to respawn them somewhere" and you're into "Oh really CCP?" land.
Why would I factor it in? The calculations assume that everything would continue in their current locations. Ie. people would still sell their stuff in Jita etc. As far as I've understood you still cannot blow up Jita after the patch?
Even if they don't there's still some room for 16-17 -> 30. |
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2206
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 08:28:09 -
[1481] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:
As noted - you just want something - and it's not 'fairness'.
How is wanting a trade off for no asset security not fair? Rek Seven wrote:.....................
It's simple; if there is no asset safety in W-space like there is everywhere else, wormholes should get some benefits that others space does not have.
......
WH do get benefits for that lack of safety - the chance to farm away for great rewards. That, for example, one can farm HS incusions for massive reward at little risk is a separate issue...
Again you show that you have no idea what you are talking about.
The next expansion is going to nerf wormhole income dramatically, while increasing the time required to run sites.
Compared to wormholes, HS incursions, low sec level 5 and null sec ratting will all yield more isk per hour post Citadel expansion...but they also get asset safety, less risk, less effort, lower investment in ships/fits and the PVE reward go straight into their wallets instead of it being 100% loot drops, like in WH space.
Seems well balanced huh?
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2206
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 08:37:37 -
[1482] - Quote
Who is it really hurting by removing transaction tax from wormhole space?
It's not like there will be a vast open market with lots of customers and traders available, like in high sec. The majority of wormhole corps will only be selling items to their own members.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
|
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Violence of Action.
108
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 09:31:53 -
[1483] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Compared to wormholes, HS incursions, low sec level 5 and null sec ratting will all yield more isk per hour post Citadel expansion...but they also get asset safety, less risk, less effort, lower investment in ships/fits and the PVE reward go straight into their wallets instead of it being 100% loot drops, like in WH space.
Seems well balanced huh?
Level 5 missions seem to be getting a fairly significant nerf in that all the people who do them in carriers will have massive problems keeping their fighters alive. Seriously, have you seen the aggro on new fighters? High-end nullsec ratting is also changing dramatically since carriers are changing a lot and HAW dreads, Phoenix in particular, will be viable for certain types of ratting.
Also, again the Level 5 meta will probably change a bit, but have you see the ship investment most of the people running those have? We're talking somewhere in the range of 5-6 carriers, so getting up there with the price of a C5 escalation squad. Granted, still a bit cheaper and a lot safer, and that's ideal, not absolutely required. |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2207
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:27:20 -
[1484] - Quote
We are getting off topic but last time I ran level 5 (some years ago now) all you had to do was have a dps sponge to take agro. Is this still not the case? Has the AI been updated to target drones?
When I did level 5's we ran the sites with several battle ships. If people want to upgrade to carriers, they have the option but it is not required like it is in C5/C6 wormhole space.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Violence of Action.
108
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 10:41:17 -
[1485] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:We are getting off topic but last time I ran level 5 (some years ago now) all you had to do was have a dps sponge to take agro. Is this still not the case? Has the AI been updated to target drones?
When I did level 5's we ran the sites with several battle ships. If people want to upgrade to carriers, they have the option but it is not required like it is in C5/C6 wormhole space.
Well you can do them in battleships but most people who use that as a serious source of income use carriers and decline the gated missions. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2240
|
Posted - 2016.04.20 11:26:31 -
[1486] - Quote
Still looks like compression won't be taxed hope it doesn't take to long for people to see how much of a problem this is going to be.
Also wtf is up with no docking fees
Citadel worm hole tax
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Marcus Roche
Shield Bhaalghorn associates
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 20:56:23 -
[1487] - Quote
Don't know if anyone is still monitoring this thread or if this has been mentioned before but when jump cloning from a NPC station where I already have a jump clone install the pop up box asking for 900,000 isk shows up. I click no; because I already have a clone and it cancels the jump. I click yes and it then asks if I want to destroy my installed clone. From memory that second part has always been a problem but I was hoping to avoid paying the 900,000.
This becomes more important when jumping from random NPC station back to my home citadel. I would suggest allowance to clone jump without leaving a clone.
I do recognize the other option is to kill my clone but that takes me back to my medical clone which may not be where I want to go. |
Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2016.04.26 23:49:51 -
[1488] - Quote
This 5mill isk fee when using Jumpclones from an NPC station idea
It makes me wonder about the sobriety of CCP Ytterbium, when he thought up the idea
If this is what the future of playing Eve will be like, good luck recruiting any new players at all.....
I always thought CCP was running a business, but with some of the latest ideas from CCP employees,
now I`m not so sure
(they seem to be trying to kill it off) |
Elothri
The Thirteen Provinces
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 06:03:27 -
[1489] - Quote
Jumping up to 5% is just too much.
I'm in favour of reducing the 'power' of the station traders, but that much increase is a shock to the economy.
It will also be very rude to those traders who play the game without feverishly checking the forums for updates like this. I'm one of them, I just happened to stumble on this by chance.
If it's an attempt to 'encourage' market trade in citadels, it has already failed because people vast majority of won't want to to major trade in a destructible station. If it's an attempt to simply slow down the velocity of transactions and hypertrading, that could be accomplished with an increase to 3% or 4% which wouldn't be nearly as painful.
I'm in favour of giving to players/making for players to have meaningful and interesting choices, but this seems like an artificial suppressor.
Do you remember when the standing requirement for setting up a Starbase was removed, because grinding standings with NPC corp - achieved through missioning, which might not be related to your gameplay or your reason for setting up a starbase - seemed like an inappropriate barrier?
Now here we are, and they want to grossly increase the tax.. "but you can reduce some of the tax by grinding up standings with the NPC corp, so it's not so bad" ....
 |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Best Kept Frozen.
LowSechnaya Sholupen
126
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 08:37:47 -
[1490] - Quote
You seem to have a couple facts wrong there. The change that actually went through doubled the brokers fee and tax to 3% and 2% respectively. The reduction from standings is also a lot less significant than it used to be.
I'm still against the change since I believe it will completely fail to do what they want while reducing the total quantity and quality of buy and sell orders, and making it harder for new players to get into trading. It looks like they only partially listened though, so all that remains is to wait and see what actually comes of the change. At least doubling the taxes and fees isn't nearly as bad as what they originally planned though. |
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Lizz 44
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 15:30:31 -
[1491] - Quote
900k ISK jump clone fee for NPC stations? No thanks CCP. Totally killed my enthusiasm for returning and experiencing the "New" New Eden. |
Jaantrag
65
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 06:29:43 -
[1492] - Quote
Lizz 44 wrote:900k ISK jump clone fee for NPC stations? No thanks CCP. Totally killed my enthusiasm for returning and experiencing the "New" New Eden.
"Cloning fee: decreased from 5m ISK to install or leave a clone behind to 900,000 ISK "
indeed .. didint really see that bit about paying when jumping to another clone ... that is kinda too much imo .. least make the leave behind sum smaller then installing .. makes no sense to pay the same for makeing and jumping ... its not that i cant afford, but it a nuincens
and atleast put a "remember this option" in the paying popup ..
EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back
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Xanathos
Da Vinci Plans
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 13:23:51 -
[1493] - Quote
Is there any chance to get an overview of the citadel fees in the info window of a citadel? Kinda like the information on the taxrate in the customs office info?
Right now there is no easy way to determine the refining tax, the office rental fee or the clone fees.
The structure browser doesn't seem to show any of this either.
Not even the reprocessing window shows the percentage of the tax, just how much ISK you actually have to pay.
I have looked at this on the current SiSi build, ignore my message if this is already fixed on TQ. |
Helium Sun
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 15:38:31 -
[1494] - Quote
i like the changes, market will ajust to new prices, ppl will devise other ways to try pvp, manufacture, new processes will be developed by players to make the game profitable and fun, all n all its just a way to reeinvent the game for everyone, and assigning more power in the hands of players means more uncertainty, wich will add to a more interesting game.
I only play for a few weeks and i intent to keep playing at a game that reinvents itself, GJ CCP |
DoubleAA
Zero's 27 Strains
inPanic
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 04:57:57 -
[1495] - Quote
I really do not like having to pay a fee, let alone a 900,000 isk fee to jump form one existing clone in a Player controlled station to another player controlled station. These are not NPC stations. I do not want to be charged a fee to jump from ANY station.
I am okay with a higher fee for installing clones, but NO FEE for using them.
I speak for all three of my accounts! |
Antares Luminus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 13:40:50 -
[1496] - Quote
It's only 900k.
Seriously dude, you are in an alliance that does basically nothing but mining and ratting all day long and are complaining about having to pay 900k ISK for safe instant travel? What is wrong with you? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4845
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 20:08:16 -
[1497] - Quote
Antares Luminus wrote:It's only 900k. Seriously dude, you are in an alliance that does basically nothing but mining and ratting all day long and are complaining about having to pay 900k ISK for safe instant travel? What is wrong with you?
An oversized sense of entitlement?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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DoubleAA
Zero's 27 Strains
inPanic
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 22:27:25 -
[1498] - Quote
Antares Luminus wrote:It's only 900k. Seriously dude, you are in an alliance that does basically nothing but mining and ratting all day long and are complaining about having to pay 900k ISK for safe instant travel? What is wrong with you?
I'd rather be taxed more for installing the clones and not have to be taxed to use them.
There is also no need to QQ about what alliances do. I like to scan wormholes.
An entitled person would demand no taxes at all, I have devised a compromise. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
940
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 00:03:39 -
[1499] - Quote
DoubleAA wrote:Antares Luminus wrote:It's only 900k. Seriously dude, you are in an alliance that does basically nothing but mining and ratting all day long and are complaining about having to pay 900k ISK for safe instant travel? What is wrong with you? I'd rather be taxed more for installing the clones and not have to be taxed to use them. There is also no need to QQ about what alliances do. I like to scan wormholes. An entitled person would demand no taxes at all, I have devised a compromise.
So what would you propose the tax to install a jump clone be set to?
We used to pay a set amount for installing a clone, which worked fine until CCP decided to think up more ways to remove more isk from the game via npc taxes - It's a never ending cycle of, pay CCP to play the game we all pay a subscription to play.
CCP have never been able to get enough new players to offset the cost burden placed on existing players - And that is highly unlikely to change. Especially if CCP Arrogant is in charge of NPE..... So expect to keep paying, for everything you choose to do in game.
Reprocessing tax - I used to lose 1 or 2 million in minerals at reprocessing time - now it is 5 to 6 mil isk each time. Pay more for the same outcome - Is just so right isn't it....... Don't complain about 900k to use a jump clone when installing one could cost 5 mil, or more..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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DoubleAA
Zero's 27 Strains
inPanic
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 03:30:39 -
[1500] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So what would you propose the tax to install a jump clone be set to?
More. |
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