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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1880
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:07:23 -
[31] - Quote
Mia Markaya wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:MuraSaki Siki wrote:just to clarify the market tax
after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right? Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants. What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim? CCP Ytterbium whats the max tax owner will be able to set up ?
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:09:45 -
[32] - Quote
Mia Markaya wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:MuraSaki Siki wrote:just to clarify the market tax
after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right? Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants. What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim? Nothing.
Aren't player-driven economies grand?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Dave Stark
7882
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:13:01 -
[33] - Quote
Querns wrote:Mia Markaya wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:MuraSaki Siki wrote:just to clarify the market tax
after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right? Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants. What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim? Nothing. Aren't player-driven economies grand?
dunno, nobody will leave jita to find out.
between having docking rights revoked, taxes changed on a whim, the citadel itself likely to get wardecced by everyone and it's dog as soon as it's anchored...
6% tax seems pretty trivial to avoid all that hassle. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:15:01 -
[34] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:Mia Markaya wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:MuraSaki Siki wrote:just to clarify the market tax
after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right? Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants. What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim? Nothing. Aren't player-driven economies grand? dunno, nobody will leave jita to find out. between having docking rights revoked, taxes changed on a whim, the citadel itself likely to get wardecced by everyone and it's dog as soon as it's anchored... 6% tax seems pretty trivial to avoid all that hassle. As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Anhenka
Infinite Point Northern Army
1521
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:15:54 -
[35] - Quote
Although I can pay it with ease, the on use jump clone fee seems really counter to what I thought was the original idea, of letting new players get out into risky situations without needing to worry about expensive clones.
Making it so that they have to either pay 5 mil to jump into a clone, or search around to find someone with a public access citadel with a cloning bay and no JC fee seems like a bad decisions for a small isk sink.
You are going to pull untold billions out of the market each day through those brutal market transaction fee's, 5 mil a clone jump is inconsequential in comparison.
Leave it alone, think of the newbies. |
Dave Stark
7882
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:20:03 -
[36] - Quote
Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.
pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:21:33 -
[37] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Although I can pay it with ease, the on use jump clone fee seems really counter to what I thought was the original idea, of letting new players get out into risky situations without needing to worry about expensive clones.
Making it so that they have to either pay 5 mil to jump into a clone, or search around to find someone with a public access citadel with a cloning bay and no JC fee seems like a bad decisions for a small isk sink.
You are going to pull untold billions out of the market each day through those brutal market transaction fee's, 5 mil a clone jump is inconsequential in comparison.
Leave it alone, think of the newbies. This is not a very good place to use the "appeal to newbies" tactic. Jump clones, in this scenario, are being used to protect implants. A set of +3s costs a person 40-50m isk simply to plug in. If they can swing +3s, they can probably swing a jump clone once in a while to protect those +3s. A newbie who legitimately is too poor to afford a 5m jump clone fee also can't afford the implants he'd be using the service to protect in the first place.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:22:32 -
[38] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
735
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:23:26 -
[39] - Quote
If you have good standings these 6% will melt significantly, and since transaction tax remains everywhere, I don't see how can a citadel attract many traders, unless its guarded by a huge force 23/7 and earns itself a good reputation. Then again, we have events like burn Jita which will only change the system name accordingly. |
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
67
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:25:14 -
[40] - Quote
Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub. |
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security The OSS
1305
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:25:16 -
[41] - Quote
ed: Page wrap, this was re: clone costs:
But he can afford it if he never risks them and hell this already happens today. Furthermore we saw all the good that came of lifting the standings limits on clones and yet now we're putting a big stick on using them.
And for why? To tick a box? Come now, plenty ways to make citadels more attractive which involve a lot less stick and some more carrot. |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1479
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:27:54 -
[42] - Quote
I'm pretty sure the JC fee is for installing the clone, whether you actually hit install or just jump out to another clone for the first time, which leaves a clone behind. Not upon every jump. If it were every jump that would be kinda silly and definitely a detractor to new player participation.
Moving the mineral taxes to an isk tax seems fine. But that will result in a large influx of minerals into the markets, possibly having a downward effect on mineral prices, which would then push the isk taxes down. Not sure how much of an effect it will be.
The increase in NPC station taxes does a couple of interesting things besides make citadels more competitive. It will make standings more important for players that do not wish to take the risk of having their things sold from a citadel. I like his dynamic. More risk, more reward.
Compression merging with Reprocessing, both in citadels. Well, as much as I was hoping to see people put up compression POSes in mining systems and make money themselves rather than let the capital producers bypass them, I guess goons were right on that one. Whodda thunk miners were so lazy they would throw away an extra few percent on their ore?
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security The OSS
1305
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:29:18 -
[43] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:I'm pretty sure the JC fee is for installing the clone, whether you actually hit install or just jump out to another clone for the first time, which leaves a clone behind. Not upon every jump. If it were every jump that would be kinda silly and definitely a detractor to new player participation.
No as confirmed on the official thread reddit, it is 5m per jump.
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
102
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:29:42 -
[44] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub.
lol ding ding ding, real motive found. grr gons
I'd use a citadel in high-sec for a trade-hub to squeeze out those extra 3 - 4%. In the end, it just depends on how much risk you are willing to take.
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Germaq
FUITA Dead Terrorists
0
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:31:31 -
[45] - Quote
5m everytime you want to jump clone
This discourages PVP (by adding cost to jump from an implanted lowsec clone to a clean null clone, or increasing the jump cost from a 'staging' system to a 'safer' system), increases the cost of moving cyno alts around (capital movement is already a bit burdensome, ok?), makes market trading more expensive and defeats low scale arbitage trade (hub clones), and I know you want to do away with training clones but it adds an additional cost to use training clones. Bad change. Didn't you just remove clone costs to encourage PVP?
No contracts What? Why stage somewhere if you can't easily outfit your alliance with ships? |
Scotsman Howard
The Scope Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:31:35 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Asset recovery to the same system is free.
Fair enough (I forgot this point), but there is still the issue of time here. I thought there was at least a delay for the recovery.
However, even if it is free, you are still asking for a huge time commitment from players here which adds no value to the game.
Scenerio:
Let us assume all players willingly go from the Jita market to an xl citadel to avoid the taxes.:
Fact: It will be destroyed just for the laughs as this is Eve.
Now, let's assume that players get there stuff back immediately AND there is already another citadel in the same system for them to move it all (I think you can choose to have it moved automatically to another citadel, so we will go with that).
You are then requiring players to spend thousands of hours relisting every order they had up.
My reasoning behind why this will not work:
Listen to have many people in null sec complain when they have to move one region over and relist their contracts (let alone their market orders).
Now you expect people in high sec to be willing to do that or even risk that when they have thousands of orders?
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2158
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:32:38 -
[47] - Quote
Why isn't the security status of a system being considered?
For the transaction taxes, it should be lower in low sec and non existent in wormholes and null sec.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
67
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:33:50 -
[48] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub. lol ding ding ding, real motive found. grr gons I'd use a citadel in high-sec for a trade-hub to squeeze out those extra 3 - 4%. In the end, it just depends on how much risk you are willing to take. It is grr everyone that can deny you access to stuff in a citadel. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:34:22 -
[49] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub. We actually tried to run a highsec empire back when highsec POCOs were first a thing, but it failed spectacularly. It's very unlikely that we'd try this again.
If we did, it would be closer to our space, like in Torrinos, where we could more effectively defend it.
If you don't want to use citadels for trading, that's fine. They are indeed ripe with potential risk and uncertainty. Folks like me, however, will gladly use player-owned citadels for trading to get that sweet, sweet fee reduction. I've bought entire characters for their standings to reduce the fees currently in place by a much smaller amount.
Also, you can't drop a citadel in Jita.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:34:43 -
[50] - Quote
Querns wrote: This is not a very good place to use the "appeal to newbies" tactic. Jump clones, in this scenario, are being used to protect implants. A set of +3s costs a person 40-50m isk simply to plug in. If they can swing +3s, they can probably swing a jump clone once in a while to protect those +3s. A newbie who legitimately is too poor to afford a 5m jump clone fee also can't afford the implants he'd be using the service to protect in the first place.
It's not the price of the single clone per se, but the prospect of having a non-negligible cost of swapping back and forth when you are new and want to try a lot of different things out before you settle for being a F1 monkey.
CAS, the NPC Corp that Does StuffGäó
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Dave Stark
7882
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:34:47 -
[51] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub. lol ding ding ding, real motive found. grr gons I'd use a citadel in high-sec for a trade-hub to squeeze out those extra 3 - 4%. In the end, it just depends on how much risk you are willing to take.
you do realise though, that if the owner of that citadel can't defend it - all of your assets are tied up for 5 days? (i think asset recovery takes 5 days).
that's not an insignificant length of time. is 5 days of time really going to be worth a 4% reduction in taxes? |
Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
102
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:36:52 -
[52] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:that's not an insignificant length of time. is 5 days of time really going to be worth a 4% reduction in taxes?
If you sell enough volume, yes, yes it is.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:36:59 -
[53] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Why isn't the security status of a system being considered?
For the transaction taxes, it should be lower in low sec and non existent in wormholes and null sec. If this was the case, everyone who wanted to sell stuff in 0.0 would just set up a market in NPC 0.0, where the taxes were low-to-zero and there was no chance of disruption via explosion or ACL lockout.
NPC stations in 0.0/lowsec need these fees too.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Scotsman Howard
The Scope Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:38:26 -
[54] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub.
Considering they are one of the few groups in the game that could actually defend the stupid thing, people will use it.
Right now, the only way I can see any sort of citadel in high sec would be if Cribba was the ONLY one who could have access to docking rights, anchoring rights, etc. AND had some agreement with the other major groups in the game to not destroy the thing every other week. |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1479
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:38:44 -
[55] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub.
Quoting this for future reference, assuming goons do put up an XL in Jita to compete.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Dave Stark
7882
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:40:22 -
[56] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:Considering they are one of the few groups in the game that could actually defend the stupid thing, people will use it.
their attempt at holding pocos failed - i wouldn't put much faith in their ability to defend a citadel. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2381
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:41:17 -
[57] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Grookshank wrote:Querns wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Querns wrote:As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk. pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk. The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward. You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub. Quoting this for future reference, assuming goons do put up an XL in Jita to compete. You can't erect citadels in Jita.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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MachineOfLovingGrace
The Bastards The Bastards.
9
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:41:41 -
[58] - Quote
While I like the idea of more player control about eve, this is moving too far into the regions where other players can effectively control how and where I play eve for my taste. Eve is already a game that is at times as tedious and overcomplicated as it's fun and engaging. The market and jumpclone changes will only make this worse, even more so if you are a casual player without some big alliance logistic backbone. Every change that makes actual gameplay require more logistic/clicks/hassle in general will make casual scrubs like me pause and think if hitting "find game" in CS:GO isn't the better use of my time. Don't lose the "small guy" from focus when you plan some big poweblock endgame. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
334
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:47:10 -
[59] - Quote
Germaq wrote:5m everytime you want to jump clone
This discourages PVP (by adding cost to jump from an implanted lowsec clone to a clean null clone, or increasing the jump cost from a 'staging' system to a 'safer' system), increases the cost of moving cyno alts around (capital movement is already a bit burdensome, ok?), makes market trading more expensive and defeats low scale arbitage trade (hub clones), and I know you want to do away with training clones but it adds an additional cost to use training clones. Bad change. Didn't you just remove clone costs to encourage PVP?
No contracts What? Why stage somewhere if you can't easily outfit your alliance with ships?
You do realize JC fees are tied to NPC stations only, if you have a citadel, the owner sets the fee |
Sim Cognito
Obani Gemini Corporation
20
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:48:47 -
[60] - Quote
NPC taxes are an essential ISK sink and an immersion factor. We have too many ISK faucets. The changes are extremely positive.
Adjusting Contract fees and Jump Clone fees is also long overdue and I welcome it.
Finally, compression and reprocessing shouldn't be instant, but that's just me I guess. |
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