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Public petition: Fix Titans/motherships

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Kirja Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.10 23:15:00 - [61] Edited by: Kirja on 10/02/2007 23:21:09 no need to nerf anything, just provide us with the tools to counter it. Here is a role for t2 BS's 1. Ability to deploy a field that dampens DD? or lower its dmg? 2. Set ups field that screws capital jump drive in radius of 5 AU (1, 10, 100?) Mpre tools! More strategy! More tactics! P.S. And remove ability of Titans and MS to cloak!!!oneelven!! How a starship with the mass of small planet can be undetectable? Gravitation anyone?
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.10 23:17:00 - [62] They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Corporation Management Improvement
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Show me a fraps and I'll eat my hat Half Assed Rhymage
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Oh my! A plan! Well, let's hear it! How to kill a titan while it's 1 meter outside a pos bubble and can return in less than the time it would take for you to come out of warp: your words here
Erbu Gepwan	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:15:00 - [65] I'm going to have to agree with the nerf-titans crowd. As it stands, titans are completely unkillable in any reasonable situation. So, you say you should energy neut it? great. So you bring 30 battleships with heavy energy neuts. Congrats, the titan can't jumpdrive out. So what? IT CAN STILL WARP. But, oho, a dictor bubble would hold it there. Nope, officer smartbombs. Uhhh... bumping? Outbreak tried that. Nanobs's don't have nearly enough mass to effectively bump a titan. and thete's the matter of untanked battleships surviving doomsdays, officer smartbombs, and the titan's friends that would most certainly be there. All of this nonwithstanding, it might be possible... If not for remote doomsday. As im sure you know, with this a titan can fire a doomsday from complete safety and demolish enemy fleets instantaneously. I agree with Jita Tradealt. Remove the remote-doomsday ability and make them scrammable. Give them +50 warpcore strength (motherships, +25) Just. make. them. scrammable. I don't care how much the effing ship costs, it should not be invincible. Yes, in its present incarnation it is invincible. CCP has said they don't want a solo pwnmobile. But that's exactly what titans and motherships are. Invincible, unstoppable juggernauts.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:20:00 - [66] Originally by: Erbu Gepwan all kinds of jibba jabba let the records show that outbreak tried to bump a mother ship and not a titan Half Assed Rhymage
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:45:00 - [67] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Bumping in anticipation of the plan. I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.
Unvisibility	Posted - 2007.02.11 14:23:00 - [68] 2 pallies and a druid could do it. Oh... wait...
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:01:00 - [69] Instead of nerfing titans directly, how's about we introduce a new specifically anti-titan ship which can be of battleship class and used in numbers, or capital ship class and used alone or in pairs? I also would like to see them limited to one per alliance but I don't know how this could be enforced. At the moment, there really is no downside to churning out one after another if you're one of the alliances with near unlimited resources(read:BoB).
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:33:00 - [70] 25 badgers with lotsa small/medium secure cans. warp in, jett and anchor, move into direction of celestial object, jet again, move a lil more, jet again, and repeat :P this an exploit or not ? I dunno :p
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:13:00 - [71] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Peter Armstrong Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:21:00 - [72] havent got enough win bottons? "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others"
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:32:00 - [73] Edited by: Shmachura on 11/02/2007 16:29:30 Originally by: Tarminic Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. And nerf a good portion of your fleet so on the off chance the titan actually sticks around you might drain him in time? I think I preferred the nanonaglfar idea to be honest. I don't know why people keep proposing ridiculous ways to beat titans because from their many engagements against some of the best PvP alliances in the game there has yet to be a legitimate kill. They either need to be made more vulnerable(via electronic warfare or a specifically anti-titan ship) or lose their doomsday. No amount of ISK should buy you invincibility.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Oh now I can call you an outright moron. I said SPECIFICALLY that it wouldn't even matter SINCE THE TITAN DOES NOT HAVE TO EVER GET IN RANGE OF THOSE BATTLESHIPS SINCE IT CAN POP OUTSIDE OF A POS SHIELD FOR A SPLIT SECOND TO FIRE ITS WEAPON JESUS CHRIST CAN SOMEONE BAN THIS PERSON?
Alexi Johns	Posted - 2007.02.11 17:01:00 - [75] Keeping in mind ive never seen a titan in a hostile situation i would have to agree that there is a compelling arguement for change. My opinion is that the Doomsday device was just a cheap way out on CCPs behalf to counter the blob and lag/node crashs, a little more creativity on their behalf would have been nice. I have posted my thoughts on this before but ill explain again for the vast majority that im sure have never read my post. The issues i see is that the doomsday is overpowered in its current form and remote detonation was never a well thought out move on CCPs part and cyno jumps really should require an aggression timer of some sort. If i had the chance to redesign the doomsday devices i feel a unique device per race would be the way to go, i would also limit the devices to be race titan specific, as an example, Amarr could get a Super XL laser weapon designed to nuke cap ships for huge damage which uses stront to fire, The Minmater could have a drastically reduced cap/fuel useage and extended range on a special minmater only titan jump bridge, The Gallente could have a XL Smart bomb to do massive damage at close range or a module which could add a Mothership style drone bay, The Caldari could have a remote ECM burst to knock out enemy sensors or a POS style force field for the support ships to hide under. Like i said these are just ideas but i think its obvious CCP spent about 5 mins coming up with doomsday weapons as a cheap counter to blob, if it really was the case to counter blob and large gate camp let a titan open its own cyno remotly at short range in conjuction with the titan jump bridge to break blob defense.
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:34:00 - [76] Edited by: tiller on 11/02/2007 18:31:29 I recently watched a MC video with 3 motherships in action against other cap ships / fleets. First impression was hey thats impressive, but after a little thought about how immune they are and how they are currently impossible to take out... I now think that even using one tbh is a exploit. Is 25b isk the right price for the fabled solopwnmobile / i win button. I don't think it's enough by FAR.
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:45:00 - [77] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Oh now I can call you an outright moron. I said SPECIFICALLY that it wouldn't even matter SINCE THE TITAN DOES NOT HAVE TO EVER GET IN RANGE OF THOSE BATTLESHIPS SINCE IT CAN POP OUTSIDE OF A POS SHIELD FOR A SPLIT SECOND TO FIRE ITS WEAPON JESUS CHRIST CAN SOMEONE BAN THIS PERSON? If so, then why not simply assault said POS? once the shields go down the titan will be vulnerable to attack, and you'd already have several dreadnoughts in the area that can immediately open fire. It should also be noted that titans require a significant chunk of energy to fire their doomsday weapons and/or jump, so once you had it below that level it wouldn't be able to escape anyway. Also, please continue your temper tantrum. It pleases me. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:55:00 - [78] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 11/02/2007 18:52:38 Originally by: Tarminic If so, then why not simply assault said POS? once the shields go down the titan will be vulnerable to attack, and you'd already have several dreadnoughts in the area that can immediately open fire. It should also be noted that titans require a significant chunk of energy to fire their doomsday weapons and/or jump, so once you had it below that level it wouldn't be able to escape anyway. Also, please continue your temper tantrum. It pleases me. Pos's dont just go boom, they take ages to take down.. So the titan can sit there all day looking at the dreads.. then watch them leave as the pos goes into reinforced.. dreads come back the next day, titan is still safe, dreads start shooting.. Some-one opens cyno, titan jumps out. CCP really does need to fix this, the current war is highlighting that it's clearly broken.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:56:00 - [79] yet another thread about nerving the game titans can be killed aand just cause your corp dosent have one you want to po0p in our punch bowl. suck it up quit the winging . if you unhappy with how ccp conduct the game quit playing. i for one am fed up with people who cant think outside the box tacticly screaming nerfbat when they get owned. realy just suck it up and get beter at the game
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:59:00 - [80] Originally by: Eskalin yet another thread about nerving the game titans can be killed aand just cause your corp dosent have one you want to po0p in our punch bowl. suck it up quit the winging . if you unhappy with how ccp conduct the game quit playing. i for one am fed up with people who cant think outside the box tacticly screaming nerfbat when they get owned. realy just suck it up and get beter at the game I suppose you have made a practical plan to take down a titan which is actually being piloted? Or are you just posting because you honestly think this is about 50% of eve being stupid and jealous of your uber wtf pwnage? Either way i feel sorry for you.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:05:00 - [81] feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:10:00 - [82] Originally by: Eskalin feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad I know there are ways to take them out when you.. -Find one when there is no pilot/support around for it. -Find one with a pilot that recently suffered from a stroke. -find one piloted by a chimp. These things are not likely to happen (anymore), and thus are not "practical". Everything needs a "practical" way to defeat, currently.. MS/Titans lack it, thus they are not balanced. Keep talking about that magical "way to take them out" and i'll wait to see them posted.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:13:00 - [83] you keep thinking in the box roflobster =¦ tell the guys in rome esk says hi
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:13:00 - [84] Motherships are just fine as they are... they are big investments.. so please stop whinning TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:28:00 - [85] Yes titans and mother ships are fine. You have to realise that these ships are the end game for the most loyal eve players and they should have the ability to not lose any battles. When all alliances in game have 10-20 of each of these ships fleetbattles will be awesome because no one will die ever and that is just super awesome. Death penalty can be harsh in eve-online, but your unkillable endgame reward will change that forever so start saving up now!
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Dopefish Yes titans and mother ships are fine. You have to realise that these ships are the end game for the most loyal eve players and they should have the ability to not lose any battles. When all alliances in game have 10-20 of each of these ships fleetbattles will be awesome because no one will die ever and that is just super awesome. Death penalty can be harsh in eve-online, but your unkillable endgame reward will change that forever so start saving up now! do i sense a hint of sarcasem ? TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 11/02/2007 20:36:40 Originally by: Eskalin feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad So next time I run into a titan then all I should do is scramble a wreck it has made to keep it aggressed and hope it's dumb enough to log in system? No thanks, I'd rather die than use BoD exploit tactics.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:44:00 - [88] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt I'd rather die than use BoD exploit tactics. That reference had no place in this thread it seems every issue in the game has some one saying oh I blame BoD because of this Half Assed Rhymage
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:52:00 - [89] motherships can be kileld as mc almost lost 1 titans are god-mode (/me orders afew ) and dd through a cyno makes no sence at all
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:27:00 - [90] well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling

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