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Public petition: Fix Titans/motherships

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Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:14:00 - [1] Currently these ships, thanks to their immunity to ALL ewar, are unkillable barring the use of exploits and/or being flown by complete idiots. As a bonus to being unkillable, the titan can deliver a smartbomb that can wipe out entire fleets with no risk. Having been on the receving end a couple times then I really don't see what CCP thought it would add to the game. Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. My suggestion would be that they could get warp scrammed like every other ship in the game and that the titan would have to be there in person to deliver the doomsday. Give them a million more in HP and hundreds of fighter drones, I don't care, just give me a chance to kill them. Having motherships/titans solo gatecamping and shurring off 100 man fleets just screams broken gameplay. Feel free to share Titan killing tactics below, I liked the nano-naglfar one from the last thread.
Gharmin Ra	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:19:00 - [2] Yes, its a sad state of affairs with the complet immunity to ewar. But some of the ewar resitances need to be there. But please let them be scammable besides by dictor & reg bubbles. Give a MS a warp core strength of 20, titan 50. Regular carrier & dread 5. Something should be doable as a decent enough fix to keep them in place. As for the titans supersmartie being delivered across time & space, lovely idea, to bad its all to game breaking since Noone in their right mind will go up against an enemy they know have a titan. All thats needed is one enemy covop pilot with a cyno find your fleet, boom. fun? I think not. You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg
Yamamoto Osu Caldari Caldari Loyalist Warbirds	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:25:00 - [3] Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. And what exactly are you wanting to have a chance to kill it with? If you want to fight one so bad... build your own. Or take some more time to learn how the game actually works.. ya know.. like maybe realizing that they can't spam a system with the doomsday.. so I don't know... maybe send in a fleet that gets killed with the doomsday and then while the titan is waiting for the doomsday to recharge, follow that up with a second fleet made of carriers who send waves of fighters against it... the titan maybe able to warp away, but they will follow it. Who knows... Have a nice day.
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:31:00 - [4] sorry but those alliances which have a 120billion isk investment don't much feel like losing it to a handful of scorpions with a few mutlispectral jammers People just need to learn the alternatives to ewar for taking on these behemoths.. i dont know about the titan, but interdictor bubbles will hold a mothership in place
Gharmin Ra	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Yamamoto Osu Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. Killing a ship left to drift in space is not an achivement esp not with some of the surrounding ...questionmarks... regarding timers amongst other things, I dont think anyone in their right mind will ever count that titan on their killboard, except it probably is, childish glee over setting fire to an anthill with a flamethrower. What we are saying is mainly that a titan is gamebreaking in its delivery of a fleet wipeout weapon with no risk to the titan itself. And should you find a titan, it will only warp away and keep warping out all the time. Motherships isnt nearly as bad as a titan, trouble is... you have no chance of keeping it in place, giving them a sizeable warp core strength instead of immunity would be good. Same time give other capitals 5 or so in strength, might make you willing to take them out for a spin :) You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:44:00 - [6] Sounds like the fisherman can't catch the fish unless its already on ice and pre-sealed. The problem is not with the titans, its you; bring more guns.
Gharmin Ra	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Sounds like the fisherman can't catch the fish unless its already on ice and pre-sealed. The problem is not with the titans, its you; bring more guns. More guns that a titan with the now supposedly working cloak & cynogen combo can help wipeout in the blink of an eye? And this helping the alliance in charge of a titan saving them guns that dont have to expose themselves to a fight? Oh yeah... bring more guns. Its not like anyone says they should have a warp core strength of 0 and ecm, damps etc should work without a bother on them :-) You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg
mechtech	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:24:00 - [8] I don't agree with most of what you are saying, although I agree that having superweps fire remotely is ridiculous. Titans are moving stations, and it should take some maneuvering to use them well in combat.
Saint Battalion Decepticons of War	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:30:00 - [9] Superweapons should have their damage output halved if fired through a cyno. AlL YoUr T2bpO aRe BeLoNG tO uS!
lofty29 Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Saint Battalion Superweapons should have their damage output halved if fired through a cyno. Or it reduces according to how far the titan is from the cyno. Like 0.5 au increments. ---

Astarte Nosferatu Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:35:00 - [11] If you want to kill Motherships/Titans you simply have to nos them. No cap = no warp = no jump. Oh, and bumping with nanobs's works good as well. Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
Saint Battalion Decepticons of War	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu If you want to kill Motherships/Titans you simply have to nos them. No cap = no warp = no jump. Oh, and bumping with nanobs's works good as well. Oh if only it was that easy, after fighting CIs MS a fair few times I can tell you that it isn't. AlL YoUr T2bpO aRe BeLoNG tO uS!
Malashek Vatrii Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.10 01:47:00 - [13] How about a Titan can be killed... when another Titan is fighting it? * * * * Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Eldo Davip (mods@ccpgames)
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:05:00 - [14] /no
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:08:00 - [15] To all you amazing battle strategists posting in this thread please remember no MS has been killed EVER so that means no posting: 1. Lol just nos it 2. Bump it 3. Bump it Half Assed Rhymage
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin To all you amazing battle strategists posting in this thread please remember no MS has been killed EVER so that means no posting: 1. Lol just nos it 2. Bump it 3. Bump it That doesn't prove anything.
Adry Lemon	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Currently these ships, thanks to their immunity to ALL ewar, are unkillable barring the use of exploits and/or being flown by complete idiots. These ships are killable, it isnt easy, and perhaps at 20 bill per mothership and 60 bill per titan they are a bit cheap. To kill a mothership/titan the first thing you have to do is nos it, and nos it hard. So you need dedicated BS's with all nos's, that do nothing but bump and nos it. Then you need a lot of firepower. The theory that they are unkillable is only because no one has dangled their mothership/titan in a situation where it will die. As the ships become more common, you will see people becoming more risky with them and then you will see some die. The idea of not making them immune to ewar is ridiculous, to think that 1 BS can disable a mothership through either dampeners or jammers is just silly. They are fine how they are, they are just too cheap tbh, Ads
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:28:00 - [18] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Originally by: Marcus TheMartin To all you amazing battle strategists posting in this thread please remember no MS has been killed EVER so that means no posting: 1. Lol just nos it 2. Bump it 3. Bump it That doesn't prove anything. It proves the battle strategists aren't doing something right Half Assed Rhymage
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:41:00 - [19] Admittedly I have zero experience with fighitng a Titan so I mention this as an idea from me. I see many, many times on these boards people griping about blob wars. Isn't a Titan's superweapon an excellent answer to that? Fleets of 250+ ships driving around a boom...gone. Sounds like a good way to encourage people to not drive around in massed fleets. Reminds me of the US Civil War where tactics still called for massed soldiers which with the newer weapons of the time meant mass casualties. Eventually someone figured those guys need to spread out a bit.
Imode Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:44:00 - [20] More dots and have dots up on every time. _________________________________

Gharmin Ra	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Humpalot Admittedly I have zero experience with fighitng a Titan so I mention this as an idea from me. I see many, many times on these boards people griping about blob wars. Isn't a Titan's superweapon an excellent answer to that? Fleets of 250+ ships driving around a boom...gone. Sounds like a good way to encourage people to not drive around in massed fleets. Reminds me of the US Civil War where tactics still called for massed soldiers which with the newer weapons of the time meant mass casualties. Eventually someone figured those guys need to spread out a bit. The thing you get here is that the ones big enough to have a titan can killoff everyone else. They can bring a big blob, their opponents cannot. Thus already big alliance steamrolls without a bother anyone without a titan. You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 02:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Gharmin Ra Originally by: Humpalot Admittedly I have zero experience with fighitng a Titan so I mention this as an idea from me. I see many, many times on these boards people griping about blob wars. Isn't a Titan's superweapon an excellent answer to that? Fleets of 250+ ships driving around a boom...gone. Sounds like a good way to encourage people to not drive around in massed fleets. Reminds me of the US Civil War where tactics still called for massed soldiers which with the newer weapons of the time meant mass casualties. Eventually someone figured those guys need to spread out a bit. The thing you get here is that the ones big enough to have a titan can killoff everyone else. They can bring a big blob, their opponents cannot. Thus already big alliance steamrolls without a bother anyone without a titan. Well if you don't flee the instant a cyno gets dropped then the titan will own you. In theory you could send out sacrifice ships to cause x titan to use its doomsday close range and expend it for an hour. Half Assed Rhymage
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.02.10 03:01:00 - [23] If someone spends 120bil on a ship I think it should be allowed to destroy a fleet of battleships If you want to kill it, bring dreads/motherships of your own that could survive the blast, or expect to die. Its like calling not being able to kill a well organized battleship group with 50 frigates unfair. Though I think they should be warp jammable, while titans and motherships shoudl be powerful, if they weren't protected by a well organized fleet there should be relatively easy way to take them out with some planning.
Gharmin Ra	Posted - 2007.02.10 03:01:00 - [24] Sacrifical fleets are a good one, but to make it threatning enough for side T with a titan + blob of ships vs your side without titan and constant lookout for anything remotely looking like a covop or kestrel with a cynogen in your midst... It will have to be substantional, and ship aint free. Still I like the idea. You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 03:02:00 - [25] Originally by: EPSILON DELTA If someone spends 120bil on a ship I think it should be allowed to destroy a fleet of battleships If you want to kill it, bring dreads/motherships of your own that could survive the blast, or expect to die. What if I got ripped off really badly in the market? Half Assed Rhymage
Jane Spondogolo	Posted - 2007.02.10 03:05:00 - [26] Its clear that the Titans are drastically broken. You put 3 of the damn things in a system, and with NO RISK of being hurt, you can wipe out fleet after fleet every 20 minutes. And currently there are meta-alliances with those sorts of numbers. People have tried to NOS the damn things. Woooops. immunity to ewar! Simple fact is, killing motherships seems improbably hard, and Titans dramatically more. It appears they are only killable via exploits (Lol BoD) or abject stupidity (logging out agressed) Seriously. Either make ewar work, or at least get rid of that stupidly game unbalancing cyno superweapon. Being able to warp from pos to pos, hitting superweapon in-flight is stupid. Key concepts: Everything must have a counter. Currently the super capitals don't, and that makes these ships unbalanced.
Moondancee Simply Smacktackular SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.10 04:02:00 - [27] think we worked it out in are corp, that 26 bs's with heavy nuets will zap a Motherships cap in 1 cycle to enough where they cant jump,thats 2.6billion in ships, maby a bill in mods, so, around 3.5-4billion to insta screw a mothership out of the cap to jump, then you can bring in your dreads to just finish it off, so.. 3.5-4billion to screw a 30billion ship.. thats not to bad cant arange a way to do that? **** hapends, sorry you need to spend 5b+ to kill a 30b+ ship and use tactics to catch it and not just warp in and say "HAI WE COME TO KILL YOU"
Grim Savage Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.10 04:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Yamamoto Osu Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. And what exactly are you wanting to have a chance to kill it with? If you want to fight one so bad... build your own. Or take some more time to learn how the game actually works.. ya know.. like maybe realizing that they can't spam a system with the doomsday.. so I don't know... maybe send in a fleet that gets killed with the doomsday and then while the titan is waiting for the doomsday to recharge, follow that up with a second fleet made of carriers who send waves of fighters against it... the titan maybe able to warp away, but they will follow it. Who knows... Have a nice day. Lost to a bounch of dev alts that messed up the node so Cyvok couldn't reenter the game while they scouted him out with some probes unable to find ships.. yea.. sure.. Everyone have that ability.. And mommyships are killable.. quite killable, if you bring a big stick...
Xeliya Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.02.10 06:14:00 - [29] Seleene almost lost his MS from the of it when they kept bumping him so he couldn't warp don't cry about them, not to mention you could prob them again before they warp again. Only thing that needs to be fixed is not allowed into 0.1+ ----------
Phoenix Lord The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.02.10 07:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Gharmin Ra Originally by: Humpalot Admittedly I have zero experience with fighitng a Titan so I mention this as an idea from me. I see many, many times on these boards people griping about blob wars. Isn't a Titan's superweapon an excellent answer to that? Fleets of 250+ ships driving around a boom...gone. Sounds like a good way to encourage people to not drive around in massed fleets. Reminds me of the US Civil War where tactics still called for massed soldiers which with the newer weapons of the time meant mass casualties. Eventually someone figured those guys need to spread out a bit. The thing you get here is that the ones big enough to have a titan can killoff everyone else. They can bring a big blob, their opponents cannot. Thus already big alliance steamrolls without a bother anyone without a titan. Well if you don't flee the instant a cyno gets dropped then the titan will own you. In theory you could send out sacrifice ships to cause x titan to use its doomsday close range and expend it for an hour. That wouldnt work. Any alliance good enough to have a titan is smart enough to have cov op scouts flying around. So you would either have to keep your main fleet docked or log them all off... which is still pretty damn noticeable. Also, good luck finding over 300-500 willing people online at the same time to even pull this off. I do agree with the point that the titan's DD should have decreased damage when fired through a cyno though. Arrow Capital Ship Sales

Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.02.10 07:20:00 - [31] if a titan is supposed to be a slightly mobile station, make it "accessible" in the overview with the usual station square
0mega GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.10 08:42:00 - [32] Edited by: 0mega on 10/02/2007 08:40:48 Originally by: Yamamoto Osu Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. Only when there is no pilot to operate the 'shoot' and 'escape' buttons. The biggest flaw is being able to fire a doomsday blast immediately before using a cyno. Increase cap usage on the doomsday and make it less effective when remotely activated and suddenly things are a bit more level. I think it demonstrates how unbalanced they are when devs are suggesting use of 'nano-naglfars' to kill them. Good luck finding someone to fly a 2bn ISK ship with no effective guns and a 'speed-tank' of 500m/s.
Mazzazuri Dark Entropy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:01:00 - [33] the hole point of a mothership or titan is its supposed to be unkillable thats the point they cost 22b n 65b would u build one if u knew u could get ganked don't be stupid and also post with ur main u fool
Mazzazuri Dark Entropy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:02:00 - [34] Oh and u can't dock them so do you really think its a good idea because i deffo don't
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:04:00 - [35] I bought a rolls royce yesterday and that cost me alot so If It gets hit with a car it will be invincible? Half Assed Rhymage
Tsurako	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Yamamoto Osu Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. Yeah, if the attackers have devs on their side.
Ky Vatta Caldari Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce	Posted - 2007.02.10 11:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I bought a rolls royce yesterday and that cost me alot so If It gets hit with a car it will be invincible? It might be if you armour-plated it...
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.10 15:55:00 - [38] I do think that they DD fired through a Cyno should be half as effective as firing up close and personal. I don't think EW should be allowed to work on them. They are the biggest investment in EVE, they should be able to survive most situations with ease! ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 15:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Majin82 They are the biggest investment in EVE What about the 500billion ISS IPO that seems to be a pretty big investment and has nothing to do with e-war immunity Half Assed Rhymage
Watcher Four	Posted - 2007.02.10 17:53:00 - [40] Quote from SCH by Seleene: http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=3209&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45 Quote: Besides, anyone who thinks that they have a "certain death" plan to kill a mothership, much less two on the same grid, has either never fought or flown one. In other words, Seleene says its unstoppable. And he can be trusted, i suppose... So, MS's are balanced by cost? 20 bil for complete invulnerability?

Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:13:00 - [41] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 10/02/2007 18:12:12 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu If you want to kill Motherships/Titans you simply have to nos them. No cap = no warp = no jump. Oh, and bumping with nanobs's works good as well. Errr what...you can still warp with no cap, try it. Nossing a captial ship prevents it from cynoing out. It wont stop it from warping. And since you cant drop a dictor bubble in empire, a MS in empire is untouchable. The only way to kill it is if the pilot feels like dying that day. As has been said before...no MS has been killed yet. Smart bombs will destroy a dictor bubble, bumping nano domies will get eaten alive by fighters. (nano domi = no tank) Please post your mother ship kill once you have "simply" nossed it Tears will stream down your face, when you lose something you can not replace
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Xrak on 10/02/2007 18:25:58 Yea CCP can you please fix them. ATM, Titans are not cost effective! Originally by: Empress Aphrodite ("don't flush it yet - let's freshen up the room a little")
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:33:00 - [43] Is it me or are most of those for the OP are alts and those against are mostly not alts? ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.02.10 18:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 10/02/2007 18:25:58 Yea CCP can you please fix them. ATM, Titans are not cost effective! It would probably help there cost effectivness if your alliance didnt use there dev tools to crash the pilot ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:28:00 - [45] Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 10/02/2007 18:25:58 Yea CCP can you please fix them. ATM, Titans are not cost effective! It would probably help there cost effectivness if your alliance didnt use there dev tools to crash the pilot You completely missed that joke Half Assed Rhymage
Zartacla Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 10/02/2007 18:25:58 Yea CCP can you please fix them. ATM, Titans are not cost effective! It would probably help there cost effectivness if your alliance didnt use there dev tools to crash the pilot You completely missed that joke the joke is people thinking that the DEVs now build tools to crash other pilots and use them to take down capitals.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Zartacla Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Lord Slater Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 10/02/2007 18:25:58 Yea CCP can you please fix them. ATM, Titans are not cost effective! It would probably help there cost effectivness if your alliance didnt use there dev tools to crash the pilot You completely missed that joke the joke is people thinking that the DEVs now build tools to crash other pilots and use them to take down capitals. Still missed the joke. The first poster was making a ref to a statement said my CCP's CEO at fan fest. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:33:00 - [48] Leave them alone they are fine, peeps just need to try harder. its 20 billion isk ship and 65 billion isk ship. it should be hard to tkill htem its fucing hard to get them. ---------------------------------------------- Is mining for a hel mad? or just ambishus?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight Leave them alone they are fine, peeps just need to try harder. its 20 billion isk ship and 65 billion isk ship. it should be hard to tkill htem its fucing hard to get them. Give them a scram defense of 100 and I think every one will be happy Half Assed Rhymage
Jarjar Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Xeliya Seleene almost lost his MS from the of it when they kept bumping him so he couldn't warp don't cry about them, not to mention you could prob them again before they warp again. Only thing that needs to be fixed is not allowed into 0.1+ Actually he said that his tank had no problem to keep up with the damage, even when under fire by half of the north. "This was not a fight it was simply a pathetic gank." - Ginger Magician

Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.10 20:14:00 - [51] Titans are SUPPOSED to be the most powerful ships in the game. Basically, you need capital ships to kill them. Specifically, dreadnoughts (which, if I recall correctly, would be able to survive in siege mode). Role of Capital Ships: Dreadnought: Anti-station/capital ship Carrier: Mother of all drone ships Mothership: Mobile base, good for support Titan: Fleet-killer __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ.
SPIONKOP Caldari Under The Edge	Posted - 2007.02.10 20:25:00 - [52] Any ship can be killed its just about how much you are willing to lose to kill it. A Mothership with T2/Officer mods maybe worth 50bil+ I was told. Well a fleet of 20 Nos Domis and a large support fleet could kill it. May cost half the fleet in doing so. From my experiance people simply don't want to lose their ships and implants. Question boils down to how much your corp/alliance is prepared to lose to kill it. If you lose 20-30 BS and 50 Support Ships whats the cost. 3-4 Bil. Add a few dreds and/or Carriers max cost could be 10bil. Sadly few corps are prepared to risk this amount to kill a 50bil+ ship.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 20:27:00 - [53] The problem isn't that it can't be killed its that it always takes off when things get a bit too hairy (most of the time) Half Assed Rhymage
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:13:00 - [54] The way I understand the argument. -The titan can't be taken down, it just Doomsdays whatever it wants and can't be held in place. If it has problems, it runs. +Well then bring more firepower like dreads, they can survive a Doomsday in siege mode. -That's a fine idea my good sir, how shall we keep the Titan in place such that we may unload our fiery hell-death upon it. +You can't, and that's the way it should be, dear chum. So, to fight a Titan, you have to be near the Titan, but, the Titan can fire its weapon remotely and can't be held in place (unless, of course, it's logged off while aggressed and its pilot can't log back in). Granted, the scenario of a fleet of dreads unleashing massive amounts of ammunition into the Titan before it can leave seems like a good idea , unless you take into account that it too will have a sizable fleet with it. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Yamamoto Osu Apparently you missed the part of the game where ASCN lost a titan. I wont get into the potential mitigating factors involved, but the fact of the matter is they can be killed. You missed the point that the tank wasn't active since the pilot CTD'd and no one was piloting it. Click on my sig to read it !
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Kvah'nid	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:29:00 - [57] Just saw Shrike, in his titan, warp to a large deathstar POS on his own, shoot off a doomsday while he was on grid, shrug off approx 100 RA people about half in battleships shooting him and although we stopped him warping by bumping him, after about 2 minutes of being shot he simply cyno'ed out. Capital ships should not be able to cyno while aggressed by their own weapons MUCH LIKE you can't jump out of a system if you've fired your guns at something lately in a normal ship. It'd need to be extended to a little longer than a 45 second delay - perhaps 5minutes or so? That would make them killable in -some- situations. At least, it would enable them not to be flown on their own into a 100 enemy fleet and just sit there laughing at everyone because he's invincible.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:48:00 - [58] I think the solution is to have a ubertitanhiveship that acts like a carrier, with titan sized fighters. Then you could kill titans no problem
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:49:00 - [59] Originally by: tiewan I think the solution is to have a ubertitanhiveship that acts like a carrier, with titan sized fighters. Then you could kill titans no problem Do the fighters have lagsday devices? Half Assed Rhymage
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:50:00 - [60] Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't.

Kirja Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.10 23:15:00 - [61] Edited by: Kirja on 10/02/2007 23:21:09 no need to nerf anything, just provide us with the tools to counter it. Here is a role for t2 BS's 1. Ability to deploy a field that dampens DD? or lower its dmg? 2. Set ups field that screws capital jump drive in radius of 5 AU (1, 10, 100?) Mpre tools! More strategy! More tactics! P.S. And remove ability of Titans and MS to cloak!!!oneelven!! How a starship with the mass of small planet can be undetectable? Gravitation anyone?
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.02.10 23:17:00 - [62] They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Corporation Management Improvement
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:11:00 - [63] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Show me a fraps and I'll eat my hat Half Assed Rhymage
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Oh my! A plan! Well, let's hear it! How to kill a titan while it's 1 meter outside a pos bubble and can return in less than the time it would take for you to come out of warp: your words here
Erbu Gepwan	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:15:00 - [65] I'm going to have to agree with the nerf-titans crowd. As it stands, titans are completely unkillable in any reasonable situation. So, you say you should energy neut it? great. So you bring 30 battleships with heavy energy neuts. Congrats, the titan can't jumpdrive out. So what? IT CAN STILL WARP. But, oho, a dictor bubble would hold it there. Nope, officer smartbombs. Uhhh... bumping? Outbreak tried that. Nanobs's don't have nearly enough mass to effectively bump a titan. and thete's the matter of untanked battleships surviving doomsdays, officer smartbombs, and the titan's friends that would most certainly be there. All of this nonwithstanding, it might be possible... If not for remote doomsday. As im sure you know, with this a titan can fire a doomsday from complete safety and demolish enemy fleets instantaneously. I agree with Jita Tradealt. Remove the remote-doomsday ability and make them scrammable. Give them +50 warpcore strength (motherships, +25) Just. make. them. scrammable. I don't care how much the effing ship costs, it should not be invincible. Yes, in its present incarnation it is invincible. CCP has said they don't want a solo pwnmobile. But that's exactly what titans and motherships are. Invincible, unstoppable juggernauts.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 00:20:00 - [66] Originally by: Erbu Gepwan all kinds of jibba jabba let the records show that outbreak tried to bump a mother ship and not a titan Half Assed Rhymage
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:45:00 - [67] Originally by: Johnathan Roark They are are killable without exploits, you just have to be creative and have a solid plan. Bumping in anticipation of the plan. I'm genuinely interested in hearing it.
Unvisibility	Posted - 2007.02.11 14:23:00 - [68] 2 pallies and a druid could do it. Oh... wait...
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:01:00 - [69] Instead of nerfing titans directly, how's about we introduce a new specifically anti-titan ship which can be of battleship class and used in numbers, or capital ship class and used alone or in pairs? I also would like to see them limited to one per alliance but I don't know how this could be enforced. At the moment, there really is no downside to churning out one after another if you're one of the alliances with near unlimited resources(read:BoB).
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.11 15:33:00 - [70] 25 badgers with lotsa small/medium secure cans. warp in, jett and anchor, move into direction of celestial object, jet again, move a lil more, jet again, and repeat :P this an exploit or not ? I dunno :p

Tarminic	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:13:00 - [71] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Peter Armstrong Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:21:00 - [72] havent got enough win bottons? "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others"
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:32:00 - [73] Edited by: Shmachura on 11/02/2007 16:29:30 Originally by: Tarminic Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. And nerf a good portion of your fleet so on the off chance the titan actually sticks around you might drain him in time? I think I preferred the nanonaglfar idea to be honest. I don't know why people keep proposing ridiculous ways to beat titans because from their many engagements against some of the best PvP alliances in the game there has yet to be a legitimate kill. They either need to be made more vulnerable(via electronic warfare or a specifically anti-titan ship) or lose their doomsday. No amount of ISK should buy you invincibility.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 16:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Oh now I can call you an outright moron. I said SPECIFICALLY that it wouldn't even matter SINCE THE TITAN DOES NOT HAVE TO EVER GET IN RANGE OF THOSE BATTLESHIPS SINCE IT CAN POP OUTSIDE OF A POS SHIELD FOR A SPLIT SECOND TO FIRE ITS WEAPON JESUS CHRIST CAN SOMEONE BAN THIS PERSON?
Alexi Johns	Posted - 2007.02.11 17:01:00 - [75] Keeping in mind ive never seen a titan in a hostile situation i would have to agree that there is a compelling arguement for change. My opinion is that the Doomsday device was just a cheap way out on CCPs behalf to counter the blob and lag/node crashs, a little more creativity on their behalf would have been nice. I have posted my thoughts on this before but ill explain again for the vast majority that im sure have never read my post. The issues i see is that the doomsday is overpowered in its current form and remote detonation was never a well thought out move on CCPs part and cyno jumps really should require an aggression timer of some sort. If i had the chance to redesign the doomsday devices i feel a unique device per race would be the way to go, i would also limit the devices to be race titan specific, as an example, Amarr could get a Super XL laser weapon designed to nuke cap ships for huge damage which uses stront to fire, The Minmater could have a drastically reduced cap/fuel useage and extended range on a special minmater only titan jump bridge, The Gallente could have a XL Smart bomb to do massive damage at close range or a module which could add a Mothership style drone bay, The Caldari could have a remote ECM burst to knock out enemy sensors or a POS style force field for the support ships to hide under. Like i said these are just ideas but i think its obvious CCP spent about 5 mins coming up with doomsday weapons as a cheap counter to blob, if it really was the case to counter blob and large gate camp let a titan open its own cyno remotly at short range in conjuction with the titan jump bridge to break blob defense.
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:34:00 - [76] Edited by: tiller on 11/02/2007 18:31:29 I recently watched a MC video with 3 motherships in action against other cap ships / fleets. First impression was hey thats impressive, but after a little thought about how immune they are and how they are currently impossible to take out... I now think that even using one tbh is a exploit. Is 25b isk the right price for the fabled solopwnmobile / i win button. I don't think it's enough by FAR.
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:45:00 - [77] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 10/02/2007 22:46:35 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. While piloting my Iteron V through 0.0 space with no scouts and escort, I was attacked and killed by a pirate. Flying to a gate and then suddenly getting blown up by something you can kill is really not fun at all. Nerf pirates! If you can't see the difference between a ship that can warp to a hostile deathstar with a 100 man fleet of battleships on it and just jump away when it gets a bit miffed and you being a moron in a T1 hauler then I can only tell you to get the ** out. And for those suggesting "lol just use nos!" then you need around 40 battleships with 8 heavy energy neutralizers** just to break the regen rate on a half-decently fitted avatar, to take it down to below 70%, to prevent jump out, within a reasonable amount of time would probably take more than twice that number. But this doesn't even matter, since the titan doesn't ever need to move more than a meter outside of a POS shield to deliver its doomsday and wipe out your entire fleet while all you ever saw was a little cyno kestrel. But hey, if you think that's good gameplay then good for you! Personally, I don't. Titan's are designed to deliver devastating firepower to large fleets, and they accomplish that task well. And just so you know, you can fit a tier-two battleship with decent setups and 8 heavy neutralizers for under 200 mil ISK. * 40 = approximately 8 billion, or around 15% the cost of a titan. So why are you complaining that you can kill 60 billion ISK worth of ship with 8 billion isk worth of ship? Seems pretty balanced to me. Oh now I can call you an outright moron. I said SPECIFICALLY that it wouldn't even matter SINCE THE TITAN DOES NOT HAVE TO EVER GET IN RANGE OF THOSE BATTLESHIPS SINCE IT CAN POP OUTSIDE OF A POS SHIELD FOR A SPLIT SECOND TO FIRE ITS WEAPON JESUS CHRIST CAN SOMEONE BAN THIS PERSON? If so, then why not simply assault said POS? once the shields go down the titan will be vulnerable to attack, and you'd already have several dreadnoughts in the area that can immediately open fire. It should also be noted that titans require a significant chunk of energy to fire their doomsday weapons and/or jump, so once you had it below that level it wouldn't be able to escape anyway. Also, please continue your temper tantrum. It pleases me. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:55:00 - [78] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 11/02/2007 18:52:38 Originally by: Tarminic If so, then why not simply assault said POS? once the shields go down the titan will be vulnerable to attack, and you'd already have several dreadnoughts in the area that can immediately open fire. It should also be noted that titans require a significant chunk of energy to fire their doomsday weapons and/or jump, so once you had it below that level it wouldn't be able to escape anyway. Also, please continue your temper tantrum. It pleases me. Pos's dont just go boom, they take ages to take down.. So the titan can sit there all day looking at the dreads.. then watch them leave as the pos goes into reinforced.. dreads come back the next day, titan is still safe, dreads start shooting.. Some-one opens cyno, titan jumps out. CCP really does need to fix this, the current war is highlighting that it's clearly broken.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:56:00 - [79] yet another thread about nerving the game titans can be killed aand just cause your corp dosent have one you want to po0p in our punch bowl. suck it up quit the winging . if you unhappy with how ccp conduct the game quit playing. i for one am fed up with people who cant think outside the box tacticly screaming nerfbat when they get owned. realy just suck it up and get beter at the game
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 18:59:00 - [80] Originally by: Eskalin yet another thread about nerving the game titans can be killed aand just cause your corp dosent have one you want to po0p in our punch bowl. suck it up quit the winging . if you unhappy with how ccp conduct the game quit playing. i for one am fed up with people who cant think outside the box tacticly screaming nerfbat when they get owned. realy just suck it up and get beter at the game I suppose you have made a practical plan to take down a titan which is actually being piloted? Or are you just posting because you honestly think this is about 50% of eve being stupid and jealous of your uber wtf pwnage? Either way i feel sorry for you.

Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:05:00 - [81] feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:10:00 - [82] Originally by: Eskalin feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad I know there are ways to take them out when you.. -Find one when there is no pilot/support around for it. -Find one with a pilot that recently suffered from a stroke. -find one piloted by a chimp. These things are not likely to happen (anymore), and thus are not "practical". Everything needs a "practical" way to defeat, currently.. MS/Titans lack it, thus they are not balanced. Keep talking about that magical "way to take them out" and i'll wait to see them posted.
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:13:00 - [83] you keep thinking in the box roflobster =¦ tell the guys in rome esk says hi
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:13:00 - [84] Motherships are just fine as they are... they are big investments.. so please stop whinning TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:28:00 - [85] Yes titans and mother ships are fine. You have to realise that these ships are the end game for the most loyal eve players and they should have the ability to not lose any battles. When all alliances in game have 10-20 of each of these ships fleetbattles will be awesome because no one will die ever and that is just super awesome. Death penalty can be harsh in eve-online, but your unkillable endgame reward will change that forever so start saving up now!
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.02.11 19:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Dopefish Yes titans and mother ships are fine. You have to realise that these ships are the end game for the most loyal eve players and they should have the ability to not lose any battles. When all alliances in game have 10-20 of each of these ships fleetbattles will be awesome because no one will die ever and that is just super awesome. Death penalty can be harsh in eve-online, but your unkillable endgame reward will change that forever so start saving up now! do i sense a hint of sarcasem ? TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Jita TradeAlt on 11/02/2007 20:36:40 Originally by: Eskalin feel sorry all you want i cba to care but there are ways of taking them out if you have not figured it out i guess thats your bad So next time I run into a titan then all I should do is scramble a wreck it has made to keep it aggressed and hope it's dumb enough to log in system? No thanks, I'd rather die than use BoD exploit tactics.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:44:00 - [88] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt I'd rather die than use BoD exploit tactics. That reference had no place in this thread it seems every issue in the game has some one saying oh I blame BoD because of this Half Assed Rhymage
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.11 20:52:00 - [89] motherships can be kileld as mc almost lost 1 titans are god-mode (/me orders afew ) and dd through a cyno makes no sence at all
Eskalin Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:27:00 - [90] well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:29:00 - [91] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 11/02/2007 21:26:09 Originally by: zykerx motherships can be kileld as mc almost lost 1 Do you notice the huge gap between something almost happening and something actually happening? Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling Why not we could all use some top secret info from Eskalin the Mighty Half Assed Rhymage
Scav Silver Amarr Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:45:00 - [92] "When Stars were blacked out, the Titans awoke.. And All the Baby Seals start cryin' on the forums.. For it was as it is, the need for 'em to cry.. Pay no attention to this thread.. As for the Sharks will always find a way to punish the Baby Seals.. For where it matters.. In the deep, dark seas of the endless space.." ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:49:00 - [93] Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 21:51:00 - [94] Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent? What are you talking about logic doesn't exist here this is the internet after all Half Assed Rhymage
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:08:00 - [95] It is possible to kill a titan,it cannot dock. But if your talking about in battle what you do is have somebody drop a bubble,he doomsdays then you warp in dreads and people to drop more bubbles,he cannot doomsday again for 1 hour if you didnt read the fine print. Also this ship isnt suppose to die,its suppose to stay alive aslong as the allience/corp does,it is the boss of the allience/corp. Now as for motherships you can do the same but its slightly easier. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Akarius Sliph	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:10:00 - [96] I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing.. They are killable.
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:10:00 - [97] I REALLY want one of those officer smartbombs that go out to what, almost 10km? those things are sexy. good game
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:12:00 - [98] Originally by: goodby4u It is possible to kill a titan,it cannot dock. But if your talking about in battle what you do is have somebody drop a bubble,he doomsdays then you warp in dreads and people to drop more bubbles,he cannot doomsday again for 1 hour if you didnt read the fine print. Also this ship isnt suppose to die,its suppose to stay alive aslong as the allience/corp does,it is the boss of the allience/corp. Now as for motherships you can do the same but its slightly easier. Officer smart bombs Half Assed Rhymage
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:12:00 - [99] Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:13:37 Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:09:47 Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent? There are many aspects of mechanics that are unfair and need to be fixed.. Titans are a very litle % of the whole eve universe.. Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too?? Just enjoy that game as it is.. Minor ballances here and there.. But I guess ya'll never be satified.. So what next on your "nerf" list?? ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Halada Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:13:00 - [100] Originally by: Akarius Sliph I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing.. They are killable. That was the sexiest screenshot ever. But he escaped, so I guess they arent all that killable ;) Click on my sig to read it !

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:14:00 - [101] Originally by: Scav Silver So what next on your "nerf" list?? Having Multiple Characters to do your bidding of course Half Assed Rhymage
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:23:00 - [102] If it can be warp scrambled i think a fair trade off would be to give the titan some warp scrambling resistances. That way one ship can't stop it from warping, it would take a fleet to stop it from warping. If this is a good idea, spit out some numbers of what you think would be fair. I think a warp stabilizing value of 20 would be appropriate, but I've never fought a titan..................
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:31:00 - [103] Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 11/02/2007 22:27:50 Originally by: Scav Silver Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:09:47 Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent? There are many aspects of mechanics that are unfair and need to be fixed.. Titans are a very litle % of the whole eve universe.. Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too?? Just enjoy that game as it is.. Minor ballances here and there.. But I guess ya'll nerver be satified.. So what next on your "nerf" list?? Alts. As for titans, ask the participants in the current war and ask them how much Titans are effecting things, if the outcome of this war is deemed insignificant by the devs, IÆll cancel my subscription. Because I figured forging your own fate was the idea behind 0.0 and sov. IÆm fine with titans being pwnmobiles, thatÆs what they are sup post to be, but they are as good as invulnerable if the people flying/supporting them are paying attention. Cause tell me, how hard Is it to have someone pop a cyno nearby, and press ôjumpö? Or just warp since the smarties they carry pop the things that are suppost to hold them in place? IÆm not content with waiting around for my opponent to slip up if they ever do, while having my assets exploded by the glorious lag+dd combo. :) This war is not "minor", and as they are titans and mommies will decide the fate of 0.0, for some people.. 0.0 is everything.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:08:00 - [104] Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling At least you aren't denying it.
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:10:00 - [105] Edited by: Shmachura on 11/02/2007 23:12:10 Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling Yeah I'm sure you know but aren't telling. That is the most childish response I've ever heard on these forums and I've read DBPreacher's. Originally by: Scav Silver Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too?? You're right it is but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight to make it a better place. I know this discussion is about internet spaceships but your core argument is flawed. I live in a nice house in the First World, I guess there's no need to ever donate to charity since life is unfair, right?
Red Crown	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:24:00 - [106] Titans = Tough as nails. No advice there, I personally think the remote doomsday is out of balance. You should have to sacrfice something in means of mobility and place your ship at direct risk to use a WTFPWNIWIN button. Motherships, are a different story. Once you get it down from the critical 95%, it can't jumpdrive. And warping isn't safe either. Over the course of a critical battle, you should be able to afford yourself roughly 80 seconds that it would take to scan it down, get back to it, and begin the nosing process. And if a carrier must warp off when it loses its insta escape route, it loses a lot of combat mobility. Beyond that? Have frigate sized vessals kill the fighters, or just smartbomb them, pin em down, and put your dreads into siege. All you need is time with a mothership, you can break its tank. But it is capital warfare. And time is hard to buy. BTW - it only takes a cruiser sized vessel to bump a mothership.
Davlin Lotze Raging Destruction The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:59:00 - [107] Originally by: Useless Whiner ..redundant drivel I see another one of these "threads" have spawned 8-(.....
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:05:00 - [108] Originally by: Shmachura ... I live in a nice house in the First World... Just that proved my argument.. Thank ya.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.12 08:13:00 - [109] Originally by: Tasuric Orka ... This war is not "minor", and as they are titans and mommies will decide the fate of 0.0, for some people.. 0.0 is everything. "Minor" = ballance it "Major" = make it useless As we know when they try to "ballance" somethin', they usually go overboard and make it useless.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
Nyrram Minmatar Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.12 09:43:00 - [110] A titan deployed in the field is very killable. In fact, I have a battle plan that would kill a titan fairly easily if it ever had the occaision to be implemented. Of course, I won't share it here, since I don't want to give any ideas to those looking to snuff out titans friendly to LV. But really, all it takes is a little thought and planning. -- Nyrram -- Nyrram

Assur Minmatar Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:12:00 - [111] Edited by: Assur on 12/02/2007 10:09:17 Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Currently these ships, thanks to their immunity to ALL ewar, are unkillable barring the use of exploits and/or being flown by complete idiots. As a bonus to being unkillable, the titan can deliver a smartbomb that can wipe out entire fleets with no risk. Having been on the receving end a couple times then I really don't see what CCP thought it would add to the game. Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. My suggestion would be that they could get warp scrammed like every other ship in the game and that the titan would have to be there in person to deliver the doomsday. Give them a million more in HP and hundreds of fighter drones, I don't care, just give me a chance to kill them. Having motherships/titans solo gatecamping and shurring off 100 man fleets just screams broken gameplay. Feel free to share Titan killing tactics below, I liked the nano-naglfar one from the last thread. Ummm There are tons of people that survived Doomsdays.. Be it because they were tanked for it specifically (A drake can successfully tank an EM Doomsday) Or be it because they were intelligent enough to be aligned... A titan or a mother ship isn't an I-Win button as many people think. Devil touched me in my sig space :'(
Dasi	Posted - 2007.02.12 10:36:00 - [112] Bet you 100 mil isk that as soon as some alliance has 10+ titans they get the nerf stick because guess what? They are broken.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:02:00 - [113] things would be far more balanced if we had Capital sized neuterers to fit on dreadnaughts. I can imagine that if we had that, a few (like 4) dedicated neuterer dreads could bringa MS to the killable realm. Otherwise you need a very good ambush with huge number of dreads in siege mode to kill it very very fast. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Delwin Amber	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:03:00 - [114] One Titan is not really broken. It can only fire once per hour, and it can only be in one system at a time. The way to beat one Titan is to hit multiple systems at the same time. No problem. Two Titans is an issue. Now they can wipe out and pod a fleet at the same time. They can wipe out support fleets every half hour... or they can take out everything but the most hardened BS from the support fleets. This is more of an issue but it can still be dealt with. Three titans, or two of differing races, is where things get to be a problem. Now you can lock down an entire system with two (or three) ships who casually sit in their POS shields and wipe out everything short of a Cap ship every hour... but again there are ways around this. It's when you get into five or six Titans that the game flat out breaks. Add in a half dozen or dozen Motherships as it's support fleet and you have a jump capable fleet that can tank everything known to man and wipe out capital fleets with their DD weapons from across the system. Those of us who have been watching this, and yes participating in it, can see this day coming and without either a change to the Supercapitals or (my preferred) more tools to fight them the day will come when a 100 man Alliance can rule the entire galaxy because they can make sure no one else gets a capital construction array up for long enough to oppose them and their ships are outright invulnerable. God forbid those 100 are part of a 1500 or 2000 man Alliance. So, not to be a nay sayer here's my thoughts for new technology for this era of Capital Fleet combat. 1) Rebalance the cap ratio for DD/Jump to pre-Revelations levels. Before Revelations a Titan could DD but then it had to recharge at least some to Jump. Now they can DD and then immediately Jump out. That window of vulnerability was when you could bump them and have time to set up a can-grid to prevent warpout and Nuet them down to prevent them from being able to Jump. Then you just need to fight off it's support fleet (and eventually the other four Titans in system...) to kill it. 2) Shield Ships. Have a ship that can put up a POS shield, even if it's only for 30 seconds. That would cause the DD to be countered. Even have this module cost 200m or more, and have it be destroyed when it activates. Losing 200-300m to cost a Titan it's Doomsay for an hour is worth it. 3) Larger Dictor bubles. Give us Dictor bubles that can be deployed, even if only for a minute, that can survive Officer Smart Bombs. 4) Interdiction Fields. A new probe for the 'dictor - 30 seconds, or 1 minute, where nothing in the area can jump out. Again it needs to be large enough to survive the Officer Smart Bombs, or have a large enough range. 5) Logistics Capitals. New normal Capital class ships with non damage effects. This may be where the Interdiction Field or the POS Shield module come in to play. A true Logistic Capital with no real offensive capability at all but Command Ship levels of Tanking (on a Capital scale) along with amazing lock times, the ability to mount POS Shield Modules, Interdiction Field Modules, and other such Capital Support Modules would counter the Mothership and the Titan quite nicely.
Kuang Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:10:00 - [115] I haven't bothered reading the other posts but think that those ships should keep their ability not to be jammed ( ecm )... but think they should be able to be scrambled but it should be like the blockade runners ( for mothership 8 points and titan 10 of natural resistance to warp jammer ) These are both expensive ships and should have something that makes them worth the investment
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:27:00 - [116] Originally by: Halada Originally by: Akarius Sliph I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing.. They are killable. That was the sexiest screenshot ever. But he escaped, so I guess they arent all that killable ;) any link to that screenshot? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ponderous Thunderstroke Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:10:00 - [117] OK, how about this then. We send several 3-man squadrons of X-wing and Y-wing frigates down the equitorial axis of the titan until we reach a canyon, then run the canyon to the end. If we don't get blown up, we should attack the small auxilliary exhaust port, right below the main port. The port leads directly to the reactor, so a direct hit should cause a chain reaction, destroying the titan. The shaft is ray-shielded, so we'll have to use proton torpedos. It's also only two meters wide. Someone try that out and let the forum know how it went.
Har Ganeth STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:55:00 - [118] I like the idea of a doomsday fired through a cyno doing less damage.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Delwin Amber One Titan is not really broken. It can only fire once per hour, and it can only be in one system at a time. The way to beat one Titan is to hit multiple systems at the same time. No problem. Two Titans is an issue. Now they can wipe out and pod a fleet at the same time. They can wipe out support fleets every half hour... or they can take out everything but the most hardened BS from the support fleets. This is more of an issue but it can still be dealt with. Three titans, or two of differing races, is where things get to be a problem. Now you can lock down an entire system with two (or three) ships who casually sit in their POS shields and wipe out everything short of a Cap ship every hour... but again there are ways around this. It's when you get into five or six Titans that the game flat out breaks. Add in a half dozen or dozen Motherships as it's support fleet and you have a jump capable fleet that can tank everything known to man and wipe out capital fleets with their DD weapons from across the system. Those of us who have been watching this, and yes participating in it, can see this day coming and without either a change to the Supercapitals or (my preferred) more tools to fight them the day will come when a 100 man Alliance can rule the entire galaxy because they can make sure no one else gets a capital construction array up for long enough to oppose them and their ships are outright invulnerable. God forbid those 100 are part of a 1500 or 2000 man Alliance. QFT. 1 Titan per alliance isn't really broken. It's big, it's powerful, it's impossible to kill, but it's not too much of a threat. But that's not where we'll be in a few months - we'll be in 4 Titans attacking the same force with enough firepower to obliterate a support fleet every 15 minutes and the ability to be manoeuvered with impunity. Capital ships aren't supposed to be this manoeuverable - the bigger it gets, the greater the liability in commiting it to battle. The statement that a Titan warping into a fleet solo at will being broken seems entirely correct. Without a support fleet, that mofo should be in serious trouble if the attackers react well - not able to go "BYE GUYS!!" and disappear.
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:37:00 - [120] Killing a Titan is easy. Preventing it from leaving while you do so is the hard part: You HAVE to Neut its cap with dozens of large Neuts to prevent it from simply jumping away. There is currently no other workaround for this, and the pilot has to be stupid enough to stick around while you neut its cap beneath jumpable levels. There are multiple ways to prevent it from warping, none of which easy to execute. - Large bubbles can survive a Doomsday but take forever to erect so trapping one in a bubble is difficult. - Bumping the ship with BS/Dreads/Carriers/MS, unreliable but possible. - Suiciding frigates/shuttles/newbie ships to deploy so many wrecks the Titan gets stuck on them... possible exploit? - Interdictor Bubbles. They do the job, but are vulnerable to Officer smartbombs, and I don't think I have heard of a MS or Titan deployed without them. Changes I would make: - Introduce Capital Energy Neuts - Prevent Smartbombs from being fit on Capitols - Increase DD cap drain to 95% of ships total

Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:53:00 - [121] A lot of people seem to have difficulties understanding that a titan doesn't ever need to get more than a meter outside of deathstar's shield. Which I can understand since it's a completely insane concept to be able to fire the most powerful weapon in the game remotely.
Mr Mozzie Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.12 13:59:00 - [122] The problem with nerfing a titan is that if they have a ***** in their armour, people will go out of their way to kill titans and they could all be destroyed. That wouldn't be fair to the people who invested so much money trying to build them.
Veriaxor	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:19:00 - [123] Titans are a completely unbalanced and broken element to Eve, thrown in as a way to counter blobs without getting rid of the reasons why blobs are absolutely necessary to 0.0 warfare. It's the worst example of mudflation I've ever seen. There needs to be some way to lock it down, and it needs to lose it's remote "I win" button.
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.12 17:31:00 - [124] Originally by: Scav Silver Originally by: Shmachura ... I live in a nice house in the First World... Just that proved my argument.. Thank ya.. Not that your barely-coherent post deserves a response but for your sake I'll help you out since I'm a philanthropist. Yes the world is unfair, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to right as many wrongs as possible. If you see a bank being robbed, do you just shrug and say "life is unfair" rather than calling the police?
Scav Silver Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:10:00 - [125] Originally by: Shmachura Not that your barely-coherent post deserves a response but for your sake I'll help you out since I'm a philanthropist. Yes the world is unfair, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to right as many wrongs as possible. If you see a bank being robbed, do you just shrug and say "life is unfair" rather than calling the police? HAHA.. Only if I can get my friends to read this.. They'll say, "Probably, Scav is doin' the robbery.." And no.. I won't call the police, nor would I say "life is unfair.." Furthermore, I'm goin' to stop talkin' to ya.. I won't give free lessons in logical thinkin' to ya.. ------------------------------------------------------------- -=Baby Seal Killer=-
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:14:00 - [126] Originally by: Scav Silver Originally by: Shmachura Not that your barely-coherent post deserves a response but for your sake I'll help you out since I'm a philanthropist. Yes the world is unfair, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to right as many wrongs as possible. If you see a bank being robbed, do you just shrug and say "life is unfair" rather than calling the police? HAHA.. Only if I can get my friends to read this.. They'll say, "Probably, Scav is doin' the robbery.." And no.. I won't call the police, nor would I say "life is unfair.." Furthermore, I'm goin' to stop talkin' to ya.. I won't give free lessons in logical thinkin' to ya.. Probably for the bests since retards [like you] aren't suited to it.
Virger	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:27:00 - [127] wah? Titans are a 130 billion investment, they should be immune to ewar. To kill a titan requires a well planned strategy but they are most certainly killable.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:34:00 - [128] Originally by: Virger wah? Titans are a 130 billion investment, they should be immune to ewar. To kill a titan requires a well planned strategy but they are most certainly killable. Care to propose it? Just because it costs 130 billion ISK doesn't mean it should be unkillable. It doesn't even mean it should be a particularly effective solo-pwnmobile. The complaint being leveled here, quite rightly, is that what we have is a ship that can warp into absurd situations and there's 0 chance of it dying provided it's not being piloted by a chimp. Carriers and Dreads IMO are probably the most balanced cap ships in EVE - powerful, but if they're not careful they die easily. They depend on a support fleet. Titan's and Motherships really don't except for the 1 cyno-alt. A Titan with a base warp core strength of 100 would be a far more sensible vehicle then what we have now. It's still practically unkillable, but you'd be retarded to warp it into the middle of a 150 man fleet since that fleet might just have that many warp disrupters - and in that case, then you need your support fleet to bail you out. IRL examples are generally frowned upon, but I'll do one anyway - the modern aircraft carrier is basically the deadliest tactical weapon on Earth (nukes = strategic or are ammunition for the carrier). But - it will go down surprisingly easily without it's support fleet - it might put up a strong fight, but it will be very vulnerable if it tries to solo take on a fleet of smaller vessels.
The Speaker The Clue Factory	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:48:00 - [129] People, just give up trying to get Titans balanced. Really, you're most probably wasting your breath. Titans and some of their capabilities will only eventually be balanced and made right if and when more alliances build them (emphasis on the 'if'). Not anytime before. ----- Read. -----
Neko Makai Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.13 02:52:00 - [130] Titans will be nerfed when targeted shots come into play. Can anyone say jump drive DISABLED?

Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.13 03:56:00 - [131] Originally by: Eskalin yet another thread about nerving the game titans can be killed aand just cause your corp dosent have one you want to po0p in our punch bowl. suck it up quit the winging . if you unhappy with how ccp conduct the game quit playing. i for one am fed up with people who cant think outside the box tacticly screaming nerfbat when they get owned. realy just suck it up and get beter at the game Or keep Somebody cough out of BoB?
Cethrie The Pretty Things	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:10:00 - [132] Absolutely an utterly not signed. If someone turns up in a Titan and you can't kill it .. leave... its a simple as that. Titans can't chase you, they can't even warp around the system effectively (i.e they are bloody slow). Eve is about teamwork. Get a team and go kill it. When the enemy turns up with 30 t2 battleships and you have 4 cruisers, you don't come on here and whinge that they should be nerfed. You work out a tactic and you go kill them. Its the same for a Titan, its just you are going to need another tactic, apart from hoping the pilot logs with aggro . Titans are a huge untaking to build and should have an equally high undertaking to destroy. Remember when the Pirate faction stole one of the Empire's Titans (think it was the Serpentis stealing the Gallente Navy's Titan)? Might be a clue as to what the dev's think should take a Titan out. Half of Eve piling onto it to kill it. Multiple waves of everytype of ship dieing and dieing some more till its dead. This is the way they should go down, in flames with all guns blazing and so much destruction there is a ripple effect on the markets in eve as demand far outstrips supply to refit and resupply what was lost. i.e a monumental event. Insert any other scenario you can imagine, but it certainly wont be one were 10 guys in battleships destroy it.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:18:00 - [133] Originally by: Cethrie Absolutely an utterly not signed. If someone turns up in a Titan and you can't kill it .. leave... its a simple as that. Titans can't chase you, they can't even warp around the system effectively (i.e they are bloody slow). Eve is about teamwork. Get a team and go kill it. When the enemy turns up with 30 t2 battleships and you have 4 cruisers, you don't come on here and whinge that they should be nerfed. You work out a tactic and you go kill them. Its the same for a Titan, its just you are going to need another tactic, apart from hoping the pilot logs with aggro . Titans are a huge untaking to build and should have an equally high undertaking to destroy. Remember when the Pirate faction stole one of the Empire's Titans (think it was the Serpentis stealing the Gallente Navy's Titan)? Might be a clue as to what the dev's think should take a Titan out. Half of Eve piling onto it to kill it. Multiple waves of everytype of ship dieing and dieing some more till its dead. This is the way they should go down, in flames with all guns blazing and so much destruction there is a ripple effect on the markets in eve as demand far outstrips supply to refit and resupply what was lost. i.e a monumental event. Insert any other scenario you can imagine, but it certainly wont be one were 10 guys in battleships destroy it. Which isn't how it will happen, because they won't ever be in that fight. You might note people aren't saying they shouldn't be hard to kill or able to kill lots of things. What they are saying, is that there should be some conceivable way to make them fight you.
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:19:00 - [134] The titan is not "unkillable" as you guys say. If that titan just sat there you would eventually kill it with enough dreads. The titan obivously will not fight a 1v100, neither does it have a reason to fight. EvE seems to be a cat and mouse game where you have to trap your opponent. In a real war an army does not try and chase or trap another army, they don't fight to kill each other but to get land, defend there outpost, etc. Why should a titan fight when it has nothing to protect? A real war two parties are fighting to protect something, like their outpost etc. SInce outposts and land are so undervalued compared to ships, fights are more about killing ships than completing an objective. Since when do people fight wars to kill the army(ships), they fight to win(objective). There should be something more expensive for a titan to not run. A station that is worth more than a titan, the most important thing to his corp. You will see a battlefield outside a outpost. The enemy will have an objective where he will blow up the outpost and all assests will be lost. While the defenders will fight to their death trying to buy time till they get help from alliances or whatever. Naturally outposts will need to have more guns etc so attacking is harder, just to not make it so easy. Well anyways as long as the titan has nothing to defend it will always run, and so will the rest of the fleet? They have nothing to gain by defending; thats why the only strategy used in this game is gank squads.
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:21:00 - [135] Edited by: Nim9i5 on 13/02/2007 04:19:39 As well there are npc stations in 0.0(free protection), and outposts dont blow up after taken over? so wheres the risk? The only risk in this game is losing your ship and some pos's.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:22:00 - [136] It's not that it has nothing to defend either, it's that it can attack things, warp into 100v1 situations, and there is no risk that it will be destroyed because you can't make it commit to that fight without doing things which will get people banned (can spam so it can't warp).
TwIsTeDSoLdIeR	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:27:00 - [137] I cannot fly titans or motherships 'yet' so i cant say from experiance but from i hear from people and see they are bugged it could do with being on one of the priority lists of fixing. If its broken fix it
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.13 10:11:00 - [138] It would take a gank Erebus 4215 seconds to eat through the armor of a tank Avatar...without armor reps. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Got Alliance? Contact me ingame for alliance creation services.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.13 10:15:00 - [139] How hard does a nanophoon bump them?? Coz thats the only conceivable way I can think of to kill them.
Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:02:00 - [140] Use Nanonaglfars, duh! -----

Vincent R	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:46:00 - [141] Edited by: Vincent R on 13/02/2007 11:42:57 Originally by: Cethrie Absolutely an utterly not signed. If someone turns up in a Titan and you can't kill it .. leave... its a simple as that. Titans can't chase you, they can't even warp around the system effectively (i.e they are bloody slow). Eve is about teamwork. Get a team and go kill it. When the enemy turns up with 30 t2 battleships and you have 4 cruisers, you don't come on here and whinge that they should be nerfed. You work out a tactic and you go kill them. Its the same for a Titan, its just you are going to need another tactic, apart from hoping the pilot logs with aggro . Titans are a huge untaking to build and should have an equally high undertaking to destroy. Remember when the Pirate faction stole one of the Empire's Titans (think it was the Serpentis stealing the Gallente Navy's Titan)? Might be a clue as to what the dev's think should take a Titan out. Half of Eve piling onto it to kill it. Multiple waves of everytype of ship dieing and dieing some more till its dead. This is the way they should go down, in flames with all guns blazing and so much destruction there is a ripple effect on the markets in eve as demand far outstrips supply to refit and resupply what was lost. i.e a monumental event. Insert any other scenario you can imagine, but it certainly wont be one were 10 guys in battleships destroy it. The point here isn't one titan. I agree with you there, building a titan is a huge undertaking and should be a massive advantage to the alliance that has one. The problems start when one alliance has three titans or more. It becomes impossible to do anything, because if you attack one of them the others can just cyno/jump in and take out the entire fleet. With different damage types it becomes impossible to tank it even in specifically fitted battleships. Carriers will be useless as well against this, since their fighters will be taken out by the superweapons. I don't think motherships are particularly imbalanced compared to titans. Sure, they're very difficult to kill and do good damage, but at least they're not hugely imbalanced and you can handle them by working together and killing their fighters. Titans however are just ridiculous in that they can clear the entire battlefield and make it 100% impossible to do anything against, for example, a POS siege since the enemy can just doomsday their own dreads to get rid of any opposing fleets. Unfortunately, I think titans will destroy this game in the long run unless something is done soon, because when some alliances get multiple titans it will be impossible to stand against them. This doesn't take into account the loss of fun involved here. In a year or so, any ship that isn't a capital will be totally useless in alliance-level warefare. It will be impossible for new alliances to rise and fight the old ones, because a capital fleet is such a huge financial undertaking. Where is the fun in only capital fleets? I love EVE and think a huge fleet battle is the coolest thing I've ever seen in a game, and it would sadden me greatly if nothing is done to halt what is happening. Support fleets will be meaningless in six months unless something is done. Smaller alliances will have no chance at all to survive. Please, please, please CCP, look at the situation and try to extrapolate what EVE will look like in a year if nothing is done, and do something about the titan superweapon. It is one of those things that are insanely cool the first time you see it, and looks good on paper as well, but it just throws the game balance out the window once an alliance has multiple titans.
Alha Qmar Caldari Xenon Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.13 11:52:00 - [142] Shutup whinees, when you yourself ever get to fly one of these babies you'll want them to be the way they are now.
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:05:00 - [143] Originally by: Alha Qmar Shutup whinees, when you yourself ever get to fly one of these babies you'll want them to be the way they are now.
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:16:00 - [144] Originally by: Vincent R The problems start when one alliance has three titans or more. Like just now ? Imho ccp screwed with the balancing.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:16:00 - [145] It seems like I have to remind people again that titans do not ever have to get more than a meter outside of a POS bubble, since it can doomsday remotely. I've only ever seen a titan warp to grid to doomsday once or twice. If he warps to a 200 man fleet with neut battleships then sure, he's an easy kill. But since he doesn't ever need to get into harms way like that then it isn't a very relevant scenario.
Veriaxor	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:17:00 - [146] Originally by: Vincent R Edited by: Vincent R on 13/02/2007 This doesn't take into account the loss of fun involved here. In a year or so, any ship that isn't a capital will be totally useless in alliance-level warefare. It will be impossible for new alliances to rise and fight the old ones, because a capital fleet is such a huge financial undertaking. This is the root of the problem. We're rapidly approaching a complete shift in game balance, and making obsolete battlecruisers/battleships in 0.0 warfare. Alliances with multiple titans will be almost completely unstoppable. Flying capital ships in combat roles will be a necessity, as anything smaller will be insta-poppped by titan superweapons. And there is no surer way to take the "fun" factor out of people's play than for them to lose ship after ship against a weapon they can't counter fired by a ship they can't hope to destroy. And as you need to hold 0.0 space to build titans, and soon can't hope to take or hold 0.0 space without titans... well, anyone not already secure out there might as well just pack it in.
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:31:00 - [147] What you are outlining Veri is a very possible scenario coming closer each day... esp with pos warfare the way it is :-/
jokerb Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:39:00 - [148] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin To all you amazing battle strategists posting in this thread please remember no MS has been killed EVER so that means no posting: 1. Lol just nos it 2. Bump it 3. Bump it Actually we got real close to one the other day Doing just that. Ask Helen. A timely fleet warp out in a lagfest is about the only thing that saved her(the support fleet had nothign to do with it :P ) . It is possible Everyone needs to bring it. It = a lot of guns and some risk takers. Otherwise, to the OP put your swimmies back on and get out of the deep end.
Powdder CL0CKW0RK 0RANGE	Posted - 2007.02.13 15:28:00 - [149] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Currently these ships, thanks to their immunity to ALL ewar, are unkillable barring the use of exploits and/or being flown by complete idiots. As a bonus to being unkillable, the titan can deliver a smartbomb that can wipe out entire fleets with no risk. Having been on the receving end a couple times then I really don't see what CCP thought it would add to the game. Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all. My suggestion would be that they could get warp scrammed like every other ship in the game and that the titan would have to be there in person to deliver the doomsday. Give them a million more in HP and hundreds of fighter drones, I don't care, just give me a chance to kill them. Having motherships/titans solo gatecamping and shurring off 100 man fleets just screams broken gameplay. Feel free to share Titan killing tactics below, I liked the nano-naglfar one from the last thread. Your argument is completely screwed. You are totally wrong and you need to quit the game. 1 TITAN HAS ALREADY DIED!!!!!!!!! tell you what, you spend 6 months as a corp building a mother ship (not even a titan) then have a group of 20 or so pirates kill it because you where warp scrambled/webed/ewared down to nothing. THIS is why ewar has been nerfed so many times. THIS is why big capitols have immunity. I mean what do you want?? everyone standing around holding hands while peeing on a campfire?? COME ON!!!! EVE IS A VIOLENT GAME!!! the death penalties are harsh, get over it. I swear to god in the last week privateers have been whined about, nanoships, and now big caps. WHERE WILL IT END???? Pow is P?OED
Veriaxor	Posted - 2007.02.13 15:55:00 - [150] Originally by: Powdder Your argument is completely screwed. You are totally wrong and you need to quit the game. 1 TITAN HAS ALREADY DIED!!!!!!!!! It died because Cyvok logged off before his aggression timer had expired, and his titan was probed out and destroyed - unpiloted, and unprotected. Using this as an example to prove titans are killable is ridiculous.

Powdder CL0CKW0RK 0RANGE	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:19:00 - [151] Originally by: Veriaxor Originally by: Powdder Your argument is completely screwed. You are totally wrong and you need to quit the game. 1 TITAN HAS ALREADY DIED!!!!!!!!! It died because Cyvok logged off before his aggression timer had expired, and his titan was probed out and destroyed - unpiloted, and unprotected. Using this as an example to prove titans are killable is ridiculous. prove it or stfu. you show me exactly where in cyvoks thread where he said thats what happened and ill apologize. until then you don't know how Steve died. The last i heard was bob lite used a game mechanics where your ship remains killable a few min after you log off EVEN W/O AN AGGRESSION TIMER. its been reported before. not sure how it works, but there ya go. and as far as being rediculas goes. this whole thread is 4tl, honestly. most of these cry babies wont even get into a fight with a capitol, so why are they posting in this thread??
Haruko Red Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:18:00 - [152] Am i the only one, who feels like he is on some Counter-Strike forum full of 13 years old kids? _____________________________________________ "I dont smoke." (C) William Blake Originally by: Torfi Frans, Technical Producer EVE is huge, complex, dark and sinister. It's what we love about the game.
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:42:00 - [153] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Saint Battalion Superweapons should have their damage output halved if fired through a cyno. Or it reduces according to how far the titan is from the cyno. Like 0.5 au increments. I like that idea. Makes it a bit more balanced in my opinion. Another issue I have is the ability to cloak capitol ships, especially Motherships and Titans. These things are so big as to not be able to dock, yet you can cloak them thus making them nearly impervious. Their shear size should prevent the ability to cloak. Allowing them to cloak promotes soloing and these ships are designed for fleet operations. On their own they should be vulnerable but with a cloak they can stay in a system indefinitely. That just doesn’t seem right to me. As for the EWAR protection I think that the way it has been implemented is fair. A station sized ship should be able to shrug off jamming and scramming. Again the size of the ship and its inherent electronics give sufficient reason to allow this. Bumping and other tactics are sufficient to deal with these ships but in the end it’s team work that will make or break an attack on a Mothership or Titan. They should not fear a few ships outfitted with scrams hunting them, it should take a fleet and a lot of firepower. Peace.
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.13 18:03:00 - [154] Edited by: Saladin on 13/02/2007 18:03:12 While this may not fix all issues and appease everyone, I suggest the following: 1. Prohibit Cloaking devices from being fit on a Mothership or Titan. It is absured that these super cap ships should be able to cloak AND be immune to EW AND (in the case of a titan) be able to doomsday everyone. They can prhibit it outright with a fitting penalty instead of a bonus, or make the fitting penalty take up so much cpu that fitting some of the 'cool' stuff like jump portals, clone vats and doomsday devices is not possible. 2. Fix the XL guns. Now XL guns have the same dps or less of battleship guns unless in Siege mode. This is totally unfair and prevents anyone from fitting XL guns on a Titan. It would be amazing to fit XL guns on these behemoths and really tear into another Titan or mothership. Make the gun slots on Titans useful when put towards killing other cap ships. 3. Capital Nos Modules: Yes its time to introduce these. It might have the side effect of making carriers so powerful over battleships. Thats true, but the Large version of Nos also makes battleships powerful over frigates. ----
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.02.13 18:13:00 - [155] Why not just give it a warp strength of, say, 4 or 5, so at least a bunch of people have to scramble it, but make it still scramble-able? - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
Rod Serling	Posted - 2007.02.13 18:59:00 - [156] Make the titan have a small thermal exhaust port (just below the main port) which leads directly to the reactor system. The exhaust port can only be reached by a small one man fighter which as to maneuver down a trench, skimming the surface. The port should be 2 meters, about the size of a wamp rat. Make the exhaust port ray shielded so it has to be hit with a proton torpedo, but if it is hit, a chain reaction occurs which blows the titan up.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:16:00 - [157] Originally by: Haruko Red Am i the only one, who feels like he is on some Counter-Strike forum full of 13 years old kids? No, just ignore Powdder and you'll be fine.
Kyria Timeyu	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:26:00 - [158] JDO shouldn't work on supercapitals. That reduces the number of heavy neutralizers needed to gank a titan from a just about impossible 100-200 to a much more manageable ~20. At that point a titan actually needs to think twice about just jumping into an enemy fleet, instead of going "oh what the hell I'm 100% safe anyway".
refinas	Posted - 2007.02.14 15:39:00 - [159] Originally by: Rod Serling Make the titan have a small thermal exhaust port (just below the main port) which leads directly to the reactor system. The exhaust port can only be reached by a small one man fighter which as to maneuver down a trench, skimming the surface. The port should be 2 meters, about the size of a wamp rat. Make the exhaust port ray shielded so it has to be hit with a proton torpedo, but if it is hit, a chain reaction occurs which blows the titan up. LMAO nice one death start ftw lol but seriously this ships are way 2 expensive for 1 player alone 2 own and they are only piloted by 1 player so i think they are perfect the way they are atm we just need counter measures 2 destroy them
Reincarnator Amarr Brute Force Missions inc Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.02.15 16:23:00 - [160] Originally by: refinas Originally by: Rod Serling Make the titan have a small thermal exhaust port (just below the main port) which leads directly to the reactor system. The exhaust port can only be reached by a small one man fighter which as to maneuver down a trench, skimming the surface. The port should be 2 meters, about the size of a wamp rat. Make the exhaust port ray shielded so it has to be hit with a proton torpedo, but if it is hit, a chain reaction occurs which blows the titan up. LMAO nice one death start ftw lol but seriously this ships are way 2 expensive for 1 player alone 2 own and they are only piloted by 1 player so i think they are perfect the way they are atm we just need counter measures 2 destroy them Could be a role for T2 BSs in the future? Originally by: Spy4Hire Hate to say it, but ECM is not really 'chance' based. It is guranteed to work, but not every time. Sig'd

Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.02.15 16:59:00 - [161] The thing with "just nos/neut it" is this. If you throw a bunch of NOS/bump BS into a battle, they will get SLAUGHTERED by the enemy support fleet, by fighters, by just about anything. Once the Titan/Mothership notices his cap is dropping fast he'll probably instantly cyno out. Interdictor bubbles don't stop the ship from warping if it activated warp before the bubble was dropped, can be smartbombed easily, etc. Deployed bubbles take too long to deploy to be effective. Titan's and Motherships are expensive, yes. But that is because they perform incredible things, like jump bridges and doomsday devices. It does not mean they should be solo pwn machines, like motherships are now atm in lowsec. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Nim9i5	Posted - 2007.03.01 07:35:00 - [162] maybe just give the ability to destroy cynos


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