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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 21:29:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 11/02/2007 21:26:09
Originally by: zykerx motherships can be kileld as mc almost lost 1
Do you notice the huge gap between something almost happening and something actually happening?
Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling
Why not we could all use some top secret info from Eskalin the Mighty
Half Assed Rhymage |
Scav Silver
Amarr Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.11 21:45:00 -
[92]
"When Stars were blacked out, the Titans awoke.. And All the Baby Seals start cryin' on the forums.. For it was as it is, the need for 'em to cry.. Pay no attention to this thread.. As for the Sharks will always find a way to punish the Baby Seals.. For where it matters.. In the deep, dark seas of the endless space.." -------------------------------------------------------------
-=Baby Seal Killer=- |
Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.11 21:49:00 -
[93]
Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent?
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 21:51:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent?
What are you talking about logic doesn't exist here this is the internet after all
Half Assed Rhymage |
goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:08:00 -
[95]
It is possible to kill a titan,it cannot dock.
But if your talking about in battle what you do is have somebody drop a bubble,he doomsdays then you warp in dreads and people to drop more bubbles,he cannot doomsday again for 1 hour if you didnt read the fine print.
Also this ship isnt suppose to die,its suppose to stay alive aslong as the allience/corp does,it is the boss of the allience/corp.
Now as for motherships you can do the same but its slightly easier. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. |
Akarius Sliph
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:10:00 -
[96]
I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing..
They are killable.
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Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:10:00 -
[97]
I REALLY want one of those officer smartbombs that go out to what, almost 10km? those things are sexy.
good game |
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:12:00 -
[98]
Originally by: goodby4u It is possible to kill a titan,it cannot dock.
But if your talking about in battle what you do is have somebody drop a bubble,he doomsdays then you warp in dreads and people to drop more bubbles,he cannot doomsday again for 1 hour if you didnt read the fine print.
Also this ship isnt suppose to die,its suppose to stay alive aslong as the allience/corp does,it is the boss of the allience/corp.
Now as for motherships you can do the same but its slightly easier.
Officer smart bombs
Half Assed Rhymage |
Scav Silver
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:12:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:13:37 Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:09:47
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent?
There are many aspects of mechanics that are unfair and need to be fixed.. Titans are a very litle % of the whole eve universe..
Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too??
Just enjoy that game as it is.. Minor ballances here and there.. But I guess ya'll never be satified.. So what next on your "nerf" list?? -------------------------------------------------------------
-=Baby Seal Killer=- |
Halada
Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:13:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Akarius Sliph I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing..
They are killable.
That was the sexiest screenshot ever.
But he escaped, so I guess they arent all that killable ;)
Click on my sig to read it ! |
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:14:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Scav Silver So what next on your "nerf" list??
Having Multiple Characters to do your bidding of course
Half Assed Rhymage |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:23:00 -
[102]
If it can be warp scrambled i think a fair trade off would be to give the titan some warp scrambling resistances. That way one ship can't stop it from warping, it would take a fleet to stop it from warping. If this is a good idea, spit out some numbers of what you think would be fair. I think a warp stabilizing value of 20 would be appropriate, but I've never fought a titan..................
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:31:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Tasuric Orka on 11/02/2007 22:27:50
Originally by: Scav Silver Edited by: Scav Silver on 11/02/2007 22:09:47
Originally by: Tasuric Orka Real mature, when you don't agree with an argument it's automatically a "whine"/"cry", how about y'all find some arguments to counter the OP's, instead of spamming the thread with "l2p" or "stfu its fine". Or are you unable to come up with something intelligent?
There are many aspects of mechanics that are unfair and need to be fixed.. Titans are a very litle % of the whole eve universe..
Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too??
Just enjoy that game as it is.. Minor ballances here and there.. But I guess ya'll nerver be satified.. So what next on your "nerf" list??
Alts.
As for titans, ask the participants in the current war and ask them how much Titans are effecting things, if the outcome of this war is deemed insignificant by the devs, IÆll cancel my subscription. Because I figured forging your own fate was the idea behind 0.0 and sov.
IÆm fine with titans being pwnmobiles, thatÆs what they are sup post to be, but they are as good as invulnerable if the people flying/supporting them are paying attention. Cause tell me, how hard Is it to have someone pop a cyno nearby, and press ôjumpö? Or just warp since the smarties they carry pop the things that are suppost to hold them in place?
IÆm not content with waiting around for my opponent to slip up if they ever do, while having my assets exploded by the glorious lag+dd combo. :)
This war is not "minor", and as they are titans and mommies will decide the fate of 0.0, for some people.. 0.0 is everything.
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Jita TradeAlt
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Posted - 2007.02.11 23:08:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling
At least you aren't denying it.
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Shmachura
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.02.11 23:10:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Shmachura on 11/02/2007 23:12:10
Originally by: Eskalin well if you cant figure out how to do it i'm not telling
Yeah I'm sure you know but aren't telling. That is the most childish response I've ever heard on these forums and I've read DBPreacher's.
Originally by: Scav Silver Life is unfair.. So ya sayin' "nerf" life, too??
You're right it is but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight to make it a better place. I know this discussion is about internet spaceships but your core argument is flawed. I live in a nice house in the First World, I guess there's no need to ever donate to charity since life is unfair, right?
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Red Crown
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Posted - 2007.02.11 23:24:00 -
[106]
Titans = Tough as nails. No advice there, I personally think the remote doomsday is out of balance. You should have to sacrfice something in means of mobility and place your ship at direct risk to use a WTFPWNIWIN button.
Motherships, are a different story. Once you get it down from the critical 95%, it can't jumpdrive. And warping isn't safe either. Over the course of a critical battle, you should be able to afford yourself roughly 80 seconds that it would take to scan it down, get back to it, and begin the nosing process. And if a carrier must warp off when it loses its insta escape route, it loses a lot of combat mobility.
Beyond that? Have frigate sized vessals kill the fighters, or just smartbomb them, pin em down, and put your dreads into siege. All you need is time with a mothership, you can break its tank. But it is capital warfare. And time is hard to buy.
BTW - it only takes a cruiser sized vessel to bump a mothership.
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Davlin Lotze
Raging Destruction The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.02.11 23:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Useless Whiner ..redundant drivel
I see another one of these "threads" have spawned 8-(.....
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Scav Silver
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:05:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Shmachura ... I live in a nice house in the First World...
Just that proved my argument.. Thank ya.. -------------------------------------------------------------
-=Baby Seal Killer=- |
Scav Silver
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.12 08:13:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka ... This war is not "minor", and as they are titans and mommies will decide the fate of 0.0, for some people.. 0.0 is everything.
"Minor" = ballance it "Major" = make it useless
As we know when they try to "ballance" somethin', they usually go overboard and make it useless.. -------------------------------------------------------------
-=Baby Seal Killer=- |
Nyrram
Minmatar Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.12 09:43:00 -
[110]
A titan deployed in the field is very killable. In fact, I have a battle plan that would kill a titan fairly easily if it ever had the occaision to be implemented. Of course, I won't share it here, since I don't want to give any ideas to those looking to snuff out titans friendly to LV. But really, all it takes is a little thought and planning.
-- Nyrram
-- Nyrram |
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Assur
Minmatar Stronghold corp Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 10:12:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Assur on 12/02/2007 10:09:17
Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Currently these ships, thanks to their immunity to ALL ewar, are unkillable barring the use of exploits and/or being flown by complete idiots.
As a bonus to being unkillable, the titan can deliver a smartbomb that can wipe out entire fleets with no risk. Having been on the receving end a couple times then I really don't see what CCP thought it would add to the game. Sitting on a gate then suddenly getting blown up by something you can't kill is really not fun at all.
My suggestion would be that they could get warp scrammed like every other ship in the game and that the titan would have to be there in person to deliver the doomsday. Give them a million more in HP and hundreds of fighter drones, I don't care, just give me a chance to kill them. Having motherships/titans solo gatecamping and shurring off 100 man fleets just screams broken gameplay.
Feel free to share Titan killing tactics below, I liked the nano-naglfar one from the last thread.
Ummm There are tons of people that survived Doomsdays.. Be it because they were tanked for it specifically (A drake can successfully tank an EM Doomsday) Or be it because they were intelligent enough to be aligned... A titan or a mother ship isn't an I-Win button as many people think.
Devil touched me in my sig space :'( |
Dasi
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Posted - 2007.02.12 10:36:00 -
[112]
Bet you 100 mil isk that as soon as some alliance has 10+ titans they get the nerf stick because guess what? They are broken.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:02:00 -
[113]
things would be far more balanced if we had Capital sized neuterers to fit on dreadnaughts.
I can imagine that if we had that, a few (like 4) dedicated neuterer dreads could bringa MS to the killable realm.
Otherwise you need a very good ambush with huge number of dreads in siege mode to kill it very very fast.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Delwin Amber
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:03:00 -
[114]
One Titan is not really broken. It can only fire once per hour, and it can only be in one system at a time. The way to beat one Titan is to hit multiple systems at the same time.
No problem.
Two Titans is an issue. Now they can wipe out and pod a fleet at the same time. They can wipe out support fleets every half hour... or they can take out everything but the most hardened BS from the support fleets. This is more of an issue but it can still be dealt with.
Three titans, or two of differing races, is where things get to be a problem. Now you can lock down an entire system with two (or three) ships who casually sit in their POS shields and wipe out everything short of a Cap ship every hour... but again there are ways around this.
It's when you get into five or six Titans that the game flat out breaks. Add in a half dozen or dozen Motherships as it's support fleet and you have a jump capable fleet that can tank everything known to man and wipe out capital fleets with their DD weapons from across the system.
Those of us who have been watching this, and yes participating in it, can see this day coming and without either a change to the Supercapitals or (my preferred) more tools to fight them the day will come when a 100 man Alliance can rule the entire galaxy because they can make sure no one else gets a capital construction array up for long enough to oppose them and their ships are outright invulnerable.
God forbid those 100 are part of a 1500 or 2000 man Alliance.
So, not to be a nay sayer here's my thoughts for new technology for this era of Capital Fleet combat.
1) Rebalance the cap ratio for DD/Jump to pre-Revelations levels. Before Revelations a Titan could DD but then it had to recharge at least some to Jump. Now they can DD and then immediately Jump out. That window of vulnerability was when you could bump them and have time to set up a can-grid to prevent warpout and Nuet them down to prevent them from being able to Jump. Then you just need to fight off it's support fleet (and eventually the other four Titans in system...) to kill it.
2) Shield Ships. Have a ship that can put up a POS shield, even if it's only for 30 seconds. That would cause the DD to be countered. Even have this module cost 200m or more, and have it be destroyed when it activates. Losing 200-300m to cost a Titan it's Doomsay for an hour is worth it.
3) Larger Dictor bubles. Give us Dictor bubles that can be deployed, even if only for a minute, that can survive Officer Smart Bombs.
4) Interdiction Fields. A new probe for the 'dictor - 30 seconds, or 1 minute, where nothing in the area can jump out. Again it needs to be large enough to survive the Officer Smart Bombs, or have a large enough range.
5) Logistics Capitals. New normal Capital class ships with non damage effects. This may be where the Interdiction Field or the POS Shield module come in to play. A true Logistic Capital with no real offensive capability at all but Command Ship levels of Tanking (on a Capital scale) along with amazing lock times, the ability to mount POS Shield Modules, Interdiction Field Modules, and other such Capital Support Modules would counter the Mothership and the Titan quite nicely. |
Kuang
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:10:00 -
[115]
I haven't bothered reading the other posts
but think that those ships should keep their ability not to be jammed ( ecm )... but think they should be able to be scrambled but it should be like the blockade runners ( for mothership 8 points and titan 10 of natural resistance to warp jammer )
These are both expensive ships and should have something that makes them worth the investment
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:27:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Halada
Originally by: Akarius Sliph I saw a screenshot yesturday of shrikes titan at 30% armor and it's support fleet missing..
They are killable.
That was the sexiest screenshot ever.
But he escaped, so I guess they arent all that killable ;)
any link to that screenshot?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Ponderous Thunderstroke
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:10:00 -
[117]
OK, how about this then. We send several 3-man squadrons of X-wing and Y-wing frigates down the equitorial axis of the titan until we reach a canyon, then run the canyon to the end. If we don't get blown up, we should attack the small auxilliary exhaust port, right below the main port. The port leads directly to the reactor, so a direct hit should cause a chain reaction, destroying the titan.
The shaft is ray-shielded, so we'll have to use proton torpedos. It's also only two meters wide. Someone try that out and let the forum know how it went.
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Har Ganeth
STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:55:00 -
[118]
I like the idea of a doomsday fired through a cyno doing less damage.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:26:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Delwin Amber One Titan is not really broken. It can only fire once per hour, and it can only be in one system at a time. The way to beat one Titan is to hit multiple systems at the same time.
No problem.
Two Titans is an issue. Now they can wipe out and pod a fleet at the same time. They can wipe out support fleets every half hour... or they can take out everything but the most hardened BS from the support fleets. This is more of an issue but it can still be dealt with.
Three titans, or two of differing races, is where things get to be a problem. Now you can lock down an entire system with two (or three) ships who casually sit in their POS shields and wipe out everything short of a Cap ship every hour... but again there are ways around this.
It's when you get into five or six Titans that the game flat out breaks. Add in a half dozen or dozen Motherships as it's support fleet and you have a jump capable fleet that can tank everything known to man and wipe out capital fleets with their DD weapons from across the system.
Those of us who have been watching this, and yes participating in it, can see this day coming and without either a change to the Supercapitals or (my preferred) more tools to fight them the day will come when a 100 man Alliance can rule the entire galaxy because they can make sure no one else gets a capital construction array up for long enough to oppose them and their ships are outright invulnerable.
God forbid those 100 are part of a 1500 or 2000 man Alliance.
QFT.
1 Titan per alliance isn't really broken. It's big, it's powerful, it's impossible to kill, but it's not too much of a threat.
But that's not where we'll be in a few months - we'll be in 4 Titans attacking the same force with enough firepower to obliterate a support fleet every 15 minutes and the ability to be manoeuvered with impunity.
Capital ships aren't supposed to be this manoeuverable - the bigger it gets, the greater the liability in commiting it to battle. The statement that a Titan warping into a fleet solo at will being broken seems entirely correct. Without a support fleet, that mofo should be in serious trouble if the attackers react well - not able to go "BYE GUYS!!" and disappear.
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:37:00 -
[120]
Killing a Titan is easy. Preventing it from leaving while you do so is the hard part:
You HAVE to Neut its cap with dozens of large Neuts to prevent it from simply jumping away. There is currently no other workaround for this, and the pilot has to be stupid enough to stick around while you neut its cap beneath jumpable levels.
There are multiple ways to prevent it from warping, none of which easy to execute.
- Large bubbles can survive a Doomsday but take forever to erect so trapping one in a bubble is difficult. - Bumping the ship with BS/Dreads/Carriers/MS, unreliable but possible. - Suiciding frigates/shuttles/newbie ships to deploy so many wrecks the Titan gets stuck on them... possible exploit? - Interdictor Bubbles. They do the job, but are vulnerable to Officer smartbombs, and I don't think I have heard of a MS or Titan deployed without them.
Changes I would make: - Introduce Capital Energy Neuts - Prevent Smartbombs from being fit on Capitols - Increase DD cap drain to 95% of ships total
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