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STOP the Witchhunt!

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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:54:00 - [61] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49 Originally by: Vile rat Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches? Fixed, but still an interesting question. Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen. But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches? -[23] Member- EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49 Originally by: Vile rat Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches? Fixed, but still an interesting question. Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen. But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches? The taste of injustice in the methaphoric "witch hunt" can only apply if injustice is on this level. Since no realy witch was ever hunted (wich is the base of the whole "witch hunt" methapher) and in this case a witch was found, the phrase does not apply. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
niroshido Caldari Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:02:00 - [63] Lets assume the Dev told a high official within BOB, lets assume the Dev told this high official to not tell anyone that there was a dev in the alliance. Lets assume t20 acted alone whilst many possibilities exist, one thing is for certain, not many ppl like BOB, not many like there*****y attitudes there smart assed posts about pwning all alliances or the way they own most of the 0.0 space (not neccesarly true), many just want to see BOB fall on there sword well i cant blame any of that, and i generally was pi$$ed off with the crap that t20 and CCP are saying actually happened with the BPO's the forward warning for LV's wyvern but lets face it each and every single person here can stand accused of something, there is no perfect angel amongst us, but yes there is something to be said when a dev uses his powers to make the game easier for himself, by spawning BPO's, and he should get kicked for that crap, but lemme list several other offences that are done in EVE, and many ppl can stand accused of at least 1 1: macro usage 2: plex wh)ring 3: corp theft 4: buying ISK off EBAY 5: selling chars or buying chars off EBAY 6: hacking i think u get the picture, all offer certain ppl an advantage over others, taking an edge off others now with this in mind, ur still saying but t20 made items for his use and BOB's use thats criminal, currupt, emoral and unjustice, yep he did, but be realistic, in normal circumstances would a dev expose himself to a whole alliance and claim he can make them stuff to help em out? i doubt it, i also doubt that BOB leaders would ask for stuff to be made either, so that leaves one real person to blame, t20 himself, he made the choice to make the items, he could of claimed to BOB leaders he had the BPO's without informing how he got hold of them now with this concept of t20's personal choice being reviewed, let us return back to BOB has BOB only made its success within this year or has bob always maintained a reputation for success since it came into being? BTW i dont support BOB, im not a fan, but i want ppl to stop painting all BOB members with the same brush, regardless of who the true offender is. now onto CCP, why did CCP keep this hush hush? i think its obvious, if u found a member of your company breaking your own products rules would u jump in to tell the public that he has been screwing over the hard labourers of EVE (who we call the customers)? i know i wouldnt, id try to contain the damage and spank the members ass, before he does anymore crap, but what happened, happened and all they could try to do is contain the damage and stop suspecious minds ill expect flak to come from this like some stupid comments refering to me as a BOB sympathizer or fan boy or whatever all i want to do is play this game, say that the months of skill training was worth it, and play the game until im bored and move on, rather than login feeling like 'why the hell do i play this game, this alliance is better than me' i play it cause i want to make a name through being honorable, and crushing dishonest, untrustworthy, exploiting son of a guns, like many alliances ingame now stop painting BOB as a whole group, play the game, kick others asses, win, and leave the game knowing u did so honourably
Allen Deckard Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:06:00 - [64] Would like to add something. Did bob "add" a bit to the problem knowingly or unknown to them? took me about 30 seconds to find a thread. Linkage really read the whole thread. I still think 90% of it was people bs'ing (or I hope so) but comeon here you gotta see where after things have come to light that we know now people would be a little slow to believe what they are "now" reading. BTW read the whole thread. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Allen Deckard Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:12:00 - [65] Originally by: niroshido but lets face it each and every single person here can stand accused of something, there is no perfect angel amongst us, but yes there is something to be said when a dev uses his powers to make the game easier for himself, by spawning BPO's, and he should get kicked for that crap, but lemme list several other offences that are done in EVE, and many ppl can stand accused of at least 1 1: macro usage 2: plex wh)ring 3: corp theft 4: buying ISK off EBAY 5: selling chars or buying chars off EBAY 6: hacking Dont speak for me there bud. And which one of the 6 is it that "you" have done? Peronally dont have an ebay account of any type. Admit I have looked at it for humor from time to time. Hacking? no sorry am a welder not a programer. the plex thing? no went to a plex a couple times everything was dead never went back. and wont even respond to the corp theft part as I find it just wrong. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:14:00 - [66] Can someone help me out here: What have BoB, apart from the character played by t20, Actually done wrong? I havnt seen ANY proof that any of BoB had the faintest clue the BPOs were dodgy. I mean its not like ****ty ammo BPOs and a single, mediocre, ship would set off alarms for me, many many people have far better collection. There is proof that one member of BoB THOUGHT he knew who t20 was, and also evidence that he DIDNT tell other BoB leaders who asked about it. What has he or they done wrong? Even if somehow they did know, what part of the EULA have they broken? T20 did wrong, but what did BoB do wrong? The only answers I have seen to this question have either been cryptic ("Its not about the BPOS") or just made up with no evidence. Please can someone explain it to me.
niroshido Caldari Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:16:00 - [67] Edited by: niroshido on 12/02/2007 12:15:11 lol well i never used EBAY nor have an account with it, but when i started this game and found out ISK buying was illegal i got interested in seeing how ppl bought it, it lead me to endless ebay pages for eve. plex wh&ring im refering to 2 alliances i had experiences with b4 (nameless unless they wana come clean), most likely many alliance can be accused corp theft, its based on same philosophy, underhanded methods of screwing ppl up and gaining an advantage over em u get the idea edde, as far as i know, BOB are being accused of knowing the dev was in there alliance, and the alliance members accepting handouts from the dev apart from that not much, but yet the knowing part and accepting handouts, has not really been confirmed, apart from some indivuals saying so (outside BOB ofc)
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:20:00 - [68] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49 Originally by: Vile rat Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches? Fixed, but still an interesting question. Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen. But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches? I was using "they" in reference to the people labeled "witch". My grammar is not perfect but I think I got it right this time I agree that the vast majority of BoB are not responsible. For the most part they log on, get in a ship, and shoot other players just like the rest of us and play a clean game. The problem as I see it is that several BoB directors knew about the director status of some of their players and this unfortunately throws any anonymity of those dev's out the window. If the Developers had characters in BoB but the BoB leadership had no idea they were dev's I don't think anybody but the most hardened Tinfoil forum troll would be making a peep about it. The thing that concerns me is that the BoB leadership clearly knew that those players were Dev's and decided to keep it secret. They had Dev's in their organization and worked to hide their identities while knowing themselves that they had these players in their groups. This is what concerns me and the whole BPO issue is just a symptom of the greater problem which is Dev's potentially acting as "super players" in support of their favorite faction. How did BoB know they were Dev's? It's clear the Dev's told the BoB leadership about it and this unfortunately makes me wonder what other secrets were told in confidence. That in the end at least one Dev admitted handing over T2 bpo's to BoB (granted they probably had no way of knowing the BPO's were illegal) makes people question "what else?" I want to think that this was a one time deal and that no other assistance was granted. I'm sure BoB feels the same way because nobody wants to win dirty. There are just too many questions now and too many reasons to think that there is more. I'm just glad this is out in the open and that hopefully there are so many eyes paying attention that this will be relegated to the history books and not our future.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:24:00 - [69] Originally by: niroshido Edited by: niroshido on 12/02/2007 12:15:11 lol well i never used EBAY nor have an account with it, but when i started this game and found out ISK buying was illegal i got interested in seeing how ppl bought it, it lead me to endless ebay pages for eve. plex wh&ring im refering to 2 alliances i had experiences with b4 (nameless unless they wana come clean), most likely many alliance can be accused corp theft, its based on same philosophy, underhanded methods of screwing ppl up and gaining an advantage over em u get the idea edde, as far as i know, BOB are being accused of knowing the dev was in there alliance, and the alliance members accepting handouts from the dev apart from that not much, but yet the knowing part and accepting handouts, has not really been confirmed, apart from some indivuals saying so (outside BOB ofc) They have been accused of a HUGE number of things, but none of the claims are EVEN backed up by the hacker's information. Its just made up!
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Lunarra Where is gone the respect for the ennemy? Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances. Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect! Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull! Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community! Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from: - "The only thing that man take seriously are games" We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT. Lets all enjoy the fight! BOB doesn't respect anyone in the EVE community, so why should I respect them? ...now in RED

Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49 Originally by: Vile rat Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches? Fixed, but still an interesting question. Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen. But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches? I was using "they" in reference to the people labeled "witch". My grammar is not perfect but I think I got it right this time I agree that the vast majority of BoB are not responsible. For the most part they log on, get in a ship, and shoot other players just like the rest of us and play a clean game. The problem as I see it is that several BoB directors knew about the director status of some of their players and this unfortunately throws any anonymity of those dev's out the window. If the Developers had characters in BoB but the BoB leadership had no idea they were dev's I don't think anybody but the most hardened Tinfoil forum troll would be making a peep about it. The thing that concerns me is that the BoB leadership clearly knew that those players were Dev's and decided to keep it secret. They had Dev's in their organization and worked to hide their identities while knowing themselves that they had these players in their groups. This is what concerns me and the whole BPO issue is just a symptom of the greater problem which is Dev's potentially acting as "super players" in support of their favorite faction. How did BoB know they were Dev's? It's clear the Dev's told the BoB leadership about it and this unfortunately makes me wonder what other secrets were told in confidence. That in the end at least one Dev admitted handing over T2 bpo's to BoB (granted they probably had no way of knowing the BPO's were illegal) makes people question "what else?" I want to think that this was a one time deal and that no other assistance was granted. I'm sure BoB feels the same way because nobody wants to win dirty. There are just too many questions now and too many reasons to think that there is more. I'm just glad this is out in the open and that hopefully there are so many eyes paying attention that this will be relegated to the history books and not our future. Is one to infer that in the same situation, if you were the ONE member (dmZ) of BoB leadership who knew that there was ONE dev (t20) in your alliance, you would have kicked him or gone public with it? Theres so much hypocracy and BS in these claims. WHAT DID BoB DO THAT THEY SHOULDNT HAVE?
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:28:00 - [72] Originally by: David H'Levi BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic. Anything to win, after all. BoB are by far the most unpleasant people i've ever had to fight in Eve. Their arrogance on forums and in local just turn me off. They've been accused multiple times of cheating and of getting favortism by the devs and lo' we have cheating and favortism by the devs. This is not a witchhunt. This is comeuppance and well deserved. If they hadn't acted like such numpty's for so long and if they hadn't had at least one dev cheating on their behalf. (I suspect far more was going on which we'll never know and I'll never trust the alliance tourney again as long as it's being run by the same Dev.) BoB have acted high handed and superior for a long time, they've been sore winners grinding their victories in their opponents faces and now we find that there was cheating that a Dev admitted he cheated on their behalf and more allegations which have never been satisfactorily investigated. Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there. And the RKK directors who took the BPO's from a Dev whould be following him out the door. But it's BoB so nothing more will be done to CCP's favorite alliance than necessary. I feel that BoB is still being shielded by CCP more than any other alliance would be. So if people treat them like cheaters I don't feel bad. They've had it too easy for too long.
niroshido Caldari Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:28:00 - [73] well as i said alot of ppl hate BOB and alot of others are paranoid, sometimes we get both combined forming "THE WITCH HUNTERS" these ppl like to feed off anything and create crasy ideas of curruption like UFO believers they believe the governments hide info bout UFO's and create unsual and crazy theories bout certain things (not saying the governments dont hide info hehe)
Kyra Azor Silver Train	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:29:00 - [74] Originally by: Edde Bebbi Can someone help me out here: What have BoB, apart from the character played by t20, Actually done wrong? There is proof that one member of BoB THOUGHT he knew who t20 was, and also evidence that he DIDNT tell other BoB leaders who asked about it. What has he or they done wrong? Even if somehow they did know, what part of the EULA have they broken? Ok, let's try again. Quote: You compare intel (the ccp event) with the personnal infos of t20? I gave all the intels i had from him. But i decided to keep his ingame char, coz it was personnaL. So we have proof that t20 gave RKK directors some intel. What was it? We don't know atm. It could be as small as an event or as big as early warning of some very profitable change or intel about their enemies. Who knows? Information in EVE can be much more profitable than a BPO. It's like someone in central bank giving out information about the exchange rates. It is easier and more profitable than getting a gun and robbing the bank. And much more difficult to prove.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:32:00 - [75] Edited by: Nez Perces on 12/02/2007 12:35:38 Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen More along the lines of (as i said) Nez had a lot of rather good points about a great many things (cbf looking them up, check caod mid/lateish last year). After Christmas, it seemed a fairly personal ISS MUST DIE!!11. And from other threads on this topic, it seems personal again. That, and he (appears?) has been fence sitting since he was in FIX as one of their leaders. Nothing wrong with a bit of time out, but sometimes it pays to choose sides. As it appears that you are looking to question my integrity over the statements I have made, I feel I must defend myself. I find it flattering that you feel that I said something at some point in time that amounted to more than a hill of beans. My beef with ISS stems from the fact that I believe the free space concept to be a sanctimonious hypocritical political agenda and when Count Tesassine chose to lie on the EVE-O boards during the ButterGate scandal, my view was that ISS should cease to exist or at least cease to have any relevance on the political stage. My view on BoB and this developer scandal has been made quite clear.... and it stems from a deep founded belief that unless some gargantuan collective punishment is handed down to BoB, this game will be irreperrably damaged. Also CCP should make amends somehow to regain the trust of the community, what they have provided so far is woefully inadequate. As for FIX, yes I was one of their leaders for over a year and a half, and it that time I dealt with BoB at the highest levels. I respected their honesty and straightforwardness... I still do to a degree.... but I believe they have become victims of their own ambition and must be punished for it, for the good of the game. As for FIX itself, I believe that its high time they flew the nest and stopped living under BoB's skirt, as that was not the purpose with which FIX was founded. You may cast your judgement on me.. after all that is what I belive to be one of these forums function's... but pls have the truth at hand.
RadarJack Amarr Solar Storm X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Liet Traep Originally by: David H'Levi BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic. Anything to win, after all. BoB are by far the most unpleasant people i've ever had to fight in Eve. Their arrogance on forums and in local just turn me off. They've been accused multiple times of cheating and of getting favortism by the devs and lo' we have cheating and favortism by the devs. This is not a witchhunt. This is comeuppance and well deserved. If they hadn't acted like such numpty's for so long and if they hadn't had at least one dev cheating on their behalf. (I suspect far more was going on which we'll never know and I'll never trust the alliance tourney again as long as it's being run by the same Dev.) BoB have acted high handed and superior for a long time, they've been sore winners grinding their victories in their opponents faces and now we find that there was cheating that a Dev admitted he cheated on their behalf and more allegations which have never been satisfactorily investigated. Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there. And the RKK directors who took the BPO's from a Dev whould be following him out the door. But it's BoB so nothing more will be done to CCP's favorite alliance than necessary. I feel that BoB is still being shielded by CCP more than any other alliance would be. So if people treat them like cheaters I don't feel bad. They've had it too easy for too long. /applaud. Bravo sir, bravo.
Astro Fizzicks	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:35:00 - [77] In other non related news: It has been revealed today that Glenn McGrath is actually the umpire Steve Bucknor. During the recent 5-0 ashes thumping of England, Glenn wanted to apologise for using his umpiring alter ego to give one England batsman out, for a dodgy LBW decision, once, in one test match only. When asked about the other 87 decisions that he had given out, he was unavailable for comment. The rest of the Australian cricket team also have not commented on the situation, but sources indicate that they were as shocked as everyone else. Although this reporter thinks that Andrew Symmonds must have had an inkling, when Glenn kept asking to borrow his affro comb. The cricketing world is outraged and have called into question Australias total domination of cricket in recent years. The ICC have played the incident down so far, but have asked Glenn McGratn to apologise and not to play cricket for Australia any more (under the name Glenn McGrath) It is understood that Steve Bucknor, however, can still umpire matches? Rumours now abound surrounding other players in the Australian squad, such as the number one player in the world Ricky Ponting, is he also an umpire? Are any of the others? Reporting live from the MCG, this reporter will keep you up to date with developments.
TrippyX Caldari The Syndicate Inc INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:35:00 - [78] let's continue.. yes it came out that they got a few BPO's.. but who knows there's more that didn't come out.. in the end all we know is that BoB cheated it doesn't matter how... keep on hunting!! kill em all!! ow and don't start talking about respect... BoB never showed me any so i'm not gonna show BoB any... ____________________ I ♥ [TSYND]
Big Al Ki Shoda	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:35:00 - [79] It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true. Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Liet Traep Originally by: David H'Levi BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic. Anything to win, after all. BoB are by far the most unpleasant people i've ever had to fight in Eve. Their arrogance on forums and in local just turn me off. They've been accused multiple times of cheating and of getting favortism by the devs and lo' we have cheating and favortism by the devs. This is not a witchhunt. This is comeuppance and well deserved. If they hadn't acted like such numpty's for so long and if they hadn't had at least one dev cheating on their behalf. (I suspect far more was going on which we'll never know and I'll never trust the alliance tourney again as long as it's being run by the same Dev.) BoB have acted high handed and superior for a long time, they've been sore winners grinding their victories in their opponents faces and now we find that there was cheating that a Dev admitted he cheated on their behalf and more allegations which have never been satisfactorily investigated. Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there. And the RKK directors who took the BPO's from a Dev whould be following him out the door. But it's BoB so nothing more will be done to CCP's favorite alliance than necessary. I feel that BoB is still being shielded by CCP more than any other alliance would be. So if people treat them like cheaters I don't feel bad. They've had it too easy for too long. AAA have been accused and PROVEN to be cheating (8/10 complexes anyone, many chars banned for continuing to use it after being told not to). Does this mean ANY allegation I make against your alliance is automatically true? You are VERY arrogant on the forums too, even more so than BoB in my opinion. You are also less fun to fight and frequently use questionable game mechanics to achieve your goals. Please explain what BoB have done that AAA havnt done worse.

Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:38:00 - [81] There's blood in the water now - just because BoD-alts keep posting 'forgive and forget' doesn't mean they'll be able to spin their way out of this one. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Big Al It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true. Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go. They didnt. 1 allegation (a Dev in CCP who gave them BPOs without them knowing anything about it) is true. The rest is bull****.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:39:00 - [83] Originally by: TrippyX let's continue.. yes it came out that they got a few BPO's.. but who knows there's more that didn't come out.. in the end all we know is that BoB cheated it doesn't matter how... keep on hunting!! kill em all!! ow and don't start talking about respect... BoB never showed me any so i'm not gonna show BoB any... Who from BoB cheated? ONLY T20. This is ridiculous. Noone is using logic its just Rhetorical arguement after flame after lie.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:40:00 - [84] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 12/02/2007 12:35:38 Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen More along the lines of (as i said) Nez had a lot of rather good points about a great many things (cbf looking them up, check caod mid/lateish last year). After Christmas, it seemed a fairly personal ISS MUST DIE!!11. And from other threads on this topic, it seems personal again. That, and he (appears?) has been fence sitting since he was in FIX as one of their leaders. Nothing wrong with a bit of time out, but sometimes it pays to choose sides. As it appears that you are looking to question my integrity over the statements I have made, I feel I must defend myself. I find it flattering that you feel that I said something at some point in time that amounted to more than a hill of beans. My beef with ISS stems from the fact that I believe the free space concept to be a sanctimonious hypocritical political agenda and when Count Tesassine chose to lie on the EVE-O boards during the ButterGate scandal, my view was that ISS should cease to exist or at least cease to have any relevance on the political stage. My view on BoB and this developer scandal has been made quite clear.... and it stems from a deep founded belief that unless some gargantuan collective punishment is handed down to BoB, this game will be irreperrably damaged. Also CCP should make amends somehow to regain the trust of the community, what they have provided so far is woefully inadequate. As for FIX, yes I was one of their leaders for over a year and a half, and it that time I dealt with BoB at the highest levels. I respected their honesty and straightforwardness... I still do to a degree.... but I believe they have become victims of their own ambition and must be punished for it, for the good of the game. As for FIX itself, I believe that its high time they flew the nest and stopped living under BoB's skirt, as that was not the purpose with which FIX was founded. You may cast your judgement on me.. after all that is what I belive to be one of these forums function's... but pls have the truth at hand. Punishment for whaT?
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:45:00 - [85] Originally by: Dekiri The funniest part is that all of the "they did not know it" people fail to see things like the fact that he registered on their boards with his CCP e-mail adress. If he does this so openly, why could we EVER assume they did not know it anyways and that is the reason why he used that e-mail adress? T20 is not stupid, what would the reason be to do that if you tried to hide or if it was not known before even. No, he didnt. Reread the Kugutsumen logs. He had an icelandic IP that could (with sufficient effort) be traced back to CCP. He did not register with his ccp email address your thinking of a different occasion where he gave it to someone else.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:46:00 - [86] Originally by: Allen Deckard Originally by: niroshido well as i said alot of ppl hate BOB and alot of others are paranoid, sometimes we get both combined forming "THE WITCH HUNTERS" these ppl like to feed off anything and create crasy ideas of curruption like UFO believers they believe the governments hide info bout UFO's and create unsual and crazy theories bout certain things (not saying the governments dont hide info hehe) and if it was found out that the government hit just one little flying saucer? maybe not a whole fleet but just a small one. No this is more like finding out that the government under-exagerated the death-toll in Iraq, and as a result concluding that they must be lying about flying saucers as well.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:47:00 - [87] Originally by: Edde Bebbi Punishment for whaT? ... punishment for looking the other way or turning a blind eye to developer collusion. To pretend that a significant number of BoB directors did not know what the score was with T20 is laughable. I refer you to the dimensionz quote.. posted earlier in this thread.. Originally by: dimensionz ...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those For all we know this was the tip of the iceberg..... BoB let their ambition cloud their good judgement when it came to overlooking what must have obviously been insider information. Since we cannot know who exactly knew what ... BoB must be collectively punished by either disbandment or some gargantuan fine that will set them back substantially... if nothing else as a warning to others that if they suspect any dev misconduct within their alliance they must seek it out and elminate it.. for their own good.
Dynast Knights of Red Mars Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:48:00 - [88] Originally by: Big Al It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true. Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go. Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy. It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:49:00 - [89] Aaaaand one here, for good measure: Kugutsumen on BoB
Kyra Azor Silver Train	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:50:00 - [90] Originally by: Edde Bebbi You misunderstand what you are quoting. The "intel" referred to was the upcoming Serpentis Titan event, WHICH EVERY MAJOR ALLIANCE GOT A WARNING OF. I know .5. did and I know -G- did. No no. If you read the whole exchange of post in Kugutsumen forum it's clear that they are arguing because Dianabolic didn't reveal the serpentis event intel to the other directors, whereas Dimensionz says he shared the t20 intel (which was something completely different but we don't know what). Here is the quote. Quote: Originally Posted by Dianabolic CCP are going to run an event in Fountain that lasts 6 monthts, including building a serpentis outpost, utilitising npc dreadnoughts and titans, installing npc POS that we're expected to take down, etc. This will coincide with NPC factions teaming up with player factions to fight other npc factions, for various rewards of whatever type. Why haven't I blurted this out to all and sundry? You're all ****ed off that I haven't immediately made a post on here saying OMG OMG OMG LOOK WHAT CCP ARE GOING TO DO, yet I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. You think I WANTED to keep this from you?



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