Originally by: Lunarra

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Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Foopadoo

---

*click

locked - flamebait and is discussing out of game events in a in-game only section - hutch.
- Thanks Hutch.

---

Originally by: Foopadoo

---

*click

locked - flamebait and is discussing out of game events in a in-game only section - hutch.
- Thanks Hutch.

---

Originally by: Dekiri

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Originally by: Foopadoo

---

*click

locked - flamebait and is discussing out of game events in a in-game only section - hutch.
- Thanks Hutch.

---

I just hope this was a joke and not your character =(

poor hutch..

---

Originally by: Klaus Stoertebeker

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Edited by: Klaus Stoertebeker on 12/02/2007 09:42:24

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

easy mind....sorry, but its not just the bpo's...there are a lot of other reasons for all the people, eg. targeting and killing people under a pos forcefield by using passive targeters for the time the majority didnt know about it...thats your lovely bob, open your eyes and see the truth about those "fine people".

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

You missing my point.
I'm not saying there was no abuses from a few maybe, and i spoke about BPOs has i could have mentioned something else! God people just think a bit with your brains!

Corruption is seen IN ALL GAMES! Not only EVE! If you never thought that it might occure in EVE you are very naive indeed!

I'm just surprised that everyone is so surprised and upset or whatever over it! As long there are pple making the game, there will be pple cheating the game (ANY GAME).... NOTHING rocket science or new for that matter!

So you came make peace with it, or you can flame winge or lose your precious time moaning instead of fighting....

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

You missing my point.
I'm not saying there was no abuses from a few maybe, and i spoke about BPOs has i could have mentioned something else! God people just think a bit with your brains!

Corruption is seen IN ALL GAMES! Not only EVE! If you never thought that it might occure in EVE you are very naive indeed!

I'm just surprised that everyone is so surprised and upset or whatever over it! As long there are pple making the game, there will be pple cheating the game (ANY GAME).... NOTHING rocket science or new for that matter!

So you came make peace with it, or you can flame winge or lose your precious time moaning instead of fighting....

---

Originally by: pershphanie

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TBH the bpos are just something simple and concrete that everyone can understand. It's not about that.

---

Quote:

---

Corruption is seen IN ALL GAMES! Not only EVE! If you never thought that it might occure in EVE you are very naive indeed!

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Ander

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Edited by: Ander on 12/02/2007 10:22:03
EVE-Online.de had intel about peoples IP adresses fed to BoB so they could identify alts and spies.

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Originally by: Lunarra

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NOTHING rocket science or new for that matter!

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Edited by: Nez Perces on 12/02/2007 10:11:57

Originally by: pershphanie

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TBH the bpos are just something simple and concrete that everyone can understand. It's not about that.

---

QFT.

Anybody that believes that this is solely about some minor bpo's is living in denial.

What has happened here has attacked the very point of playing EVE at all.

Its very serious... as far as games go. And it seems neither BoB nor CCP are willing to be punished for this properly. And <not?> having T20 fired.. is simply not good enough.

This witchhunt for once... is completely and 100% justified. Because if we the players can't be angry about this, then we are wasting our time and are just credit card drones for CCP.

---

Originally by: Xthril Ranger

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Originally by: Ander

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Edited by: Ander on 12/02/2007 10:22:03
EVE-Online.de had intel about peoples IP adresses fed to BoB so they could identify alts and spies.

---

ACtually , that was D2. But every website log ip adresses and how do you combat hackers without looking at those?

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Quote:

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dimensionZ wrote:
...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

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Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Edited by: Nez Perces on 12/02/2007 10:11:57

Originally by: pershphanie

---

TBH the bpos are just something simple and concrete that everyone can understand. It's not about that.

---

QFT.

Anybody that believes that this is solely about some minor bpo's is living in denial.

What has happened here has attacked the very point of playing EVE at all.

Its very serious... as far as games go. And it seems neither BoB nor CCP are willing to be punished for this properly. And <not?> having T20 fired.. is simply not good enough.

This witchhunt for once... is completely and 100% justified. Because if we the players can't be angry about this, then we are wasting our time and are just credit card drones for CCP.

---

Did someone **** in your weeties Nez? Last year, you'd made quite a few logical/interesting posts. Since the caper with ISS though, you've been frothing at the mouth for the death of various entities (primarily ISS and now BoB). Did Butter dog get to you? .

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Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen

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Is this BoBs only indiscretion: Nuppers. Overall, did these give them -some- unfair advantage? Undoubtedly. Did most (in BoB) know? I would guess not. But... would they have won without it?, I'd say so. They still had to wage all their wars. Short of having "polaris frig gm leethax", they still had to win their fleets.

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Originally by: Kyra Azor

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The problem isn't the bpos.
This is the problem:

Quote:

---

dimensionZ wrote:
...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

---

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

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Originally by: Kyra Azor

---

The problem isn't the bpos.
This is the problem:

Quote:

---

dimensionZ wrote:
...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

---

---

Wow.. just wow... is that a real quote or a fabricated one?

If its real can you link it? and also the date on which it was made?

I for one am very curious.

---

Originally by: Devilish Ledoux

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Don't think of it as being kicked out of the Federation; think of it as beating the rush

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

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Originally by: Kyra Azor

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The problem isn't the bpos.
This is the problem:

Quote:

---

dimensionZ wrote:
...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

---

---

Wow.. just wow... is that a real quote or a fabricated one?

If its real can you link it? and also the date on which it was made?

I for one am very curious.

---

Quote:

---

I can't see the relevant thing.
You compare intel (the ccp event) with the personnal infos of t20?
I gave all the intels i had from him.
But i decided to keep his ingame char, coz it was personnaL.
Your infos arent personnal.

---

Originally by: Xeliya

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I have never seen someone who murdered someone have his family and friends pay for his wrong doing, so why should they ingame?

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Originally by: Max Teranous

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Just a thought - but it's not like every alliance in the game other then bob has never done anything vaguely against the EULA, or something shady. Bob and this Dev stuff, Goons with their client hack, D2 & their IP taking from a CCP board, RA's isk selling, etc etc.

Let those who are innocent cast the first stone, and all that.

---

Originally by: thoradh

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Originally by: Max Teranous

---

Just a thought - but it's not like every alliance in the game other then bob has never done anything vaguely against the EULA, or something shady. Bob and this Dev stuff, Goons with their client hack, D2 & their IP taking from a CCP board, RA's isk selling, etc etc.

Let those who are innocent cast the first stone, and all that.

---

The Goons did not 'hack' the client.
They got permission from CCP.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: thoradh

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Originally by: Max Teranous

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Just a thought - but it's not like every alliance in the game other then bob has never done anything vaguely against the EULA, or something shady. Bob and this Dev stuff, Goons with their client hack, D2 & their IP taking from a CCP board, RA's isk selling, etc etc.

Let those who are innocent cast the first stone, and all that.

---

Can you link the thread where they were officially accused of 'hacking' the client by CCP?

The Goons did not 'hack' the client.
They got permission from CCP.

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I was under the impression CCP declared their hack an exploit and only integrated it into the client because they could not detect it.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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I was under the impression CCP declared their hack an exploit and only integrated it into the client because they could not detect it.

Can you link to the thread where it states Goonfleet got prior approval?

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Originally by: Admiral Feelgood

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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I was under the impression CCP declared their hack an exploit and only integrated it into the client because they could not detect it.

Can you link to the thread where it states Goonfleet got prior approval?

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Any approval they got would not be valid to post on the forums because it would mean they were disclosing GM conversations with a 3rd party.

---

Quote:

---

Just a thought - but it's not like every alliance in the game other then bob has never done anything vaguely against the EULA, or something shady. Bob and this Dev stuff, Goons with their client hack, D2 & their IP taking from a CCP board, RA's isk selling, etc etc.

Let those who are innocent cast the first stone, and all that.

---

Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Admiral Feelgood

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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I was under the impression CCP declared their hack an exploit and only integrated it into the client because they could not detect it.

Can you link to the thread where it states Goonfleet got prior approval?

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Any approval they got would not be valid to post on the forums because it would mean they were disclosing GM conversations with a 3rd party.

---

No, a GM could say in their thread "we approved this."

You can say anything a GM said as long as you don't directly quote it, and the GM can post whatever he wants himself.

The Goonfleet portrait hack thread was around 8 pages and was in General Discussion like 6-8 months back. I think the link has been posted a few times in COAD lately, so shouldn't be too hard to find.

I didn't read all of it when it came out, but I definitely don't remember anything about the portrait hack being supposedly "approved", especially when CCP was saying it was against the rules.

---

Originally by: pershphanie

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So he presents his opinion on the situation and you respond with a personal attack. Maybe you shouldn't be the one critiquing here.

[snips, edit: my comment on BoB probably still winning conflicts w/out the 'help' they got]

But how do you really know that? Maybe they would, maybe they wouldnt. I find it likely that BoB benefited from GM game knowledge that most of us did not have access to. Probably this was done without knowledge of the bob members who have received this information. Yet they still received it just the same. This info could have very well effected the outcome of key battles and wars. This is why I do not blame bob members for this, yet still think it would be healthy for everyone to kill them.

Or maybe I just want to see more drama and big fights. who really knows? Can't prove it either way.

---

Quote:

---

Yeah, where has it gone?

Cheers!
Fogy

SPREAD THE ♥


I nerfed my siggie.. :(
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"

Originally by: Vile rat

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Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches?

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49

Originally by: Vile rat

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Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches?

---

Fixed, but still an interesting question.

Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen.

But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches?

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Originally by: niroshido

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but lets face it
each and every single person here can stand accused of something, there is no perfect angel amongst us, but yes there is something to be said when a dev uses his powers to make the game easier for himself, by spawning BPO's, and he should get kicked for that crap, but lemme list several other offences that are done in EVE, and many ppl can stand accused of at least 1

1: macro usage
2: plex wh)ring
3: corp theft
4: buying ISK off EBAY
5: selling chars or buying chars off EBAY
6: hacking

---

Originally by: Dark Shikari

---

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches?

---

Fixed, but still an interesting question.

Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen.

But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches?

---

Originally by: niroshido

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Edited by: niroshido on 12/02/2007 12:15:11
lol well i never used EBAY nor have an account with it, but when i started this game and found out ISK buying was illegal i got interested in seeing how ppl bought it, it lead me to endless ebay pages for eve.

plex wh&ring im refering to 2 alliances i had experiences with b4 (nameless unless they wana come clean), most likely many alliance can be accused

corp theft, its based on same philosophy, underhanded methods of screwing ppl up and gaining an advantage over em
u get the idea

edde, as far as i know, BOB are being accused of knowing the dev was in there alliance, and the alliance members accepting handouts from the dev

apart from that not much, but yet the knowing part and accepting handouts, has not really been confirmed, apart from some indivuals saying so (outside BOB ofc)

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Originally by: Dark Shikari

---

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/02/2007 11:50:49

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Does the term "Witch hunt" in the provided context still apply if there really were witches?

---

Fixed, but still an interesting question.

Clearly the vast majority of BoB are not responsible; the only ones we know knew are the RKK directors, as demonstrated by Kugutsumen.

But your question is valid: Is it a proverbial witch hunt if you find witches?

---

I was using "they" in reference to the people labeled "witch". My grammar is not perfect but I think I got it right this time


I agree that the vast majority of BoB are not responsible. For the most part they log on, get in a ship, and shoot other players just like the rest of us and play a clean game. The problem as I see it is that several BoB directors knew about the director status of some of their players and this unfortunately throws any anonymity of those dev's out the window.

If the Developers had characters in BoB but the BoB leadership had no idea they were dev's I don't think anybody but the most hardened Tinfoil forum troll would be making a peep about it. The thing that concerns me is that the BoB leadership clearly knew that those players were Dev's and decided to keep it secret. They had Dev's in their organization and worked to hide their identities while knowing themselves that they had these players in their groups. This is what concerns me and the whole BPO issue is just a symptom of the greater problem which is Dev's potentially acting as "super players" in support of their favorite faction. How did BoB know they were Dev's? It's clear the Dev's told the BoB leadership about it and this unfortunately makes me wonder what other secrets were told in confidence.

That in the end at least one Dev admitted handing over T2 bpo's to BoB (granted they probably had no way of knowing the BPO's were illegal) makes people question "what else?"

I want to think that this was a one time deal and that no other assistance was granted. I'm sure BoB feels the same way because nobody wants to win dirty. There are just too many questions now and too many reasons to think that there is more.

I'm just glad this is out in the open and that hopefully there are so many eyes paying attention that this will be relegated to the history books and not our future.

---

Originally by: David H'Levi

---

BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic.

Anything to win, after all.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Can someone help me out here:


What have BoB, apart from the character played by t20, Actually done wrong?


There is proof that one member of BoB THOUGHT he knew who t20 was, and also evidence that he DIDNT tell other BoB leaders who asked about it. What has he or they done wrong? Even if somehow they did know, what part of the EULA have they broken?

---

Quote:

---

You compare intel (the ccp event) with the personnal infos of t20?
I gave all the intels i had from him.
But i decided to keep his ingame char, coz it was personnaL.

---

Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen

---

More along the lines of (as i said) Nez had a lot of rather good points about a great many things (cbf looking them up, check caod mid/lateish last year). After Christmas, it seemed a fairly personal ISS MUST DIE!!11. And from other threads on this topic, it seems personal again.

That, and he (appears?) has been fence sitting since he was in FIX as one of their leaders. Nothing wrong with a bit of time out, but sometimes it pays to choose sides.

---

Originally by: Liet Traep

---

Originally by: David H'Levi

---

BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic.

Anything to win, after all.

---

BoB are by far the most unpleasant people i've ever had to fight in Eve. Their arrogance on forums and in local just turn me off. They've been accused multiple times of cheating and of getting favortism by the devs and lo' we have cheating and favortism by the devs. This is not a witchhunt. This is comeuppance and well deserved. If they hadn't acted like such numpty's for so long and if they hadn't had at least one dev cheating on their behalf. (I suspect far more was going on which we'll never know and I'll never trust the alliance tourney again as long as it's being run by the same Dev.)

BoB have acted high handed and superior for a long time, they've been sore winners grinding their victories in their opponents faces and now we find that there was cheating that a Dev admitted he cheated on their behalf and more allegations which have never been satisfactorily investigated.

Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there. And the RKK directors who took the BPO's from a Dev whould be following him out the door. But it's BoB so nothing more will be done to CCP's favorite alliance than necessary.

I feel that BoB is still being shielded by CCP more than any other alliance would be. So if people treat them like cheaters I don't feel bad. They've had it too easy for too long.

---

Originally by: Liet Traep

---

Originally by: David H'Levi

---

BoB has also been rubbing it in everyone's face that they are the more professional PvP corporation for months and months. I'm not disputing that they are (they are clearly the best run major alliance in the game), but they talk an awful lot of smack and gloat a great deal. They have vehemently denied any assertions of misconduct, flaming anyone who even suggested it for being weak, stupid, and not up to par with them, and while there is no official CCP "proof" at the moment, it's more than likely that the same people doing the denying knew the truth. It's sort of reassuring to know that our friends in BoB may not be as perfect as some might claim, and sometimes rubbing their faces in it is a bit cathartic.

Anything to win, after all.

---

BoB are by far the most unpleasant people i've ever had to fight in Eve. Their arrogance on forums and in local just turn me off. They've been accused multiple times of cheating and of getting favortism by the devs and lo' we have cheating and favortism by the devs. This is not a witchhunt. This is comeuppance and well deserved. If they hadn't acted like such numpty's for so long and if they hadn't had at least one dev cheating on their behalf. (I suspect far more was going on which we'll never know and I'll never trust the alliance tourney again as long as it's being run by the same Dev.)

BoB have acted high handed and superior for a long time, they've been sore winners grinding their victories in their opponents faces and now we find that there was cheating that a Dev admitted he cheated on their behalf and more allegations which have never been satisfactorily investigated.

Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there. And the RKK directors who took the BPO's from a Dev whould be following him out the door. But it's BoB so nothing more will be done to CCP's favorite alliance than necessary.

I feel that BoB is still being shielded by CCP more than any other alliance would be. So if people treat them like cheaters I don't feel bad. They've had it too easy for too long.

---

Originally by: Big Al

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It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Originally by: TrippyX

---

let's continue..

yes it came out that they got a few BPO's.. but who knows there's more that didn't come out.. in the end all we know is that BoB cheated it doesn't matter how...

keep on hunting!! kill em all!!

ow and don't start talking about respect... BoB never showed me any so i'm not gonna show BoB any...

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

Edited by: Nez Perces on 12/02/2007 12:35:38

Originally by: Unbeliever Kresmoreen

---

More along the lines of (as i said) Nez had a lot of rather good points about a great many things (cbf looking them up, check caod mid/lateish last year). After Christmas, it seemed a fairly personal ISS MUST DIE!!11. And from other threads on this topic, it seems personal again.

That, and he (appears?) has been fence sitting since he was in FIX as one of their leaders. Nothing wrong with a bit of time out, but sometimes it pays to choose sides.

---

As it appears that you are looking to question my integrity over the statements I have made, I feel I must defend myself.

I find it flattering that you feel that I said something at some point in time that amounted to more than a hill of beans.

My beef with ISS stems from the fact that I believe the free space concept to be a sanctimonious hypocritical political agenda and when Count Tesassine chose to lie on the EVE-O boards during the ButterGate scandal, my view was that ISS should cease to exist or at least cease to have any relevance on the political stage.

My view on BoB and this developer scandal has been made quite clear.... and it stems from a deep founded belief that unless some gargantuan collective punishment is handed down to BoB, this game will be irreperrably damaged. Also CCP should make amends somehow to regain the trust of the community, what they have provided so far is woefully inadequate.

As for FIX, yes I was one of their leaders for over a year and a half, and it that time I dealt with BoB at the highest levels. I respected their honesty and straightforwardness... I still do to a degree.... but I believe they have become victims of their own ambition and must be punished for it, for the good of the game. As for FIX itself, I believe that its high time they flew the nest and stopped living under BoB's skirt, as that was not the purpose with which FIX was founded.

You may cast your judgement on me.. after all that is what I belive to be one of these forums function's... but pls have the truth at hand.

---

Originally by: Dekiri

---

The funniest part is that all of the "they did not know it" people fail to see things like the fact that he registered on their boards with his CCP e-mail adress. If he does this so openly, why could we EVER assume they did not know it anyways and that is the reason why he used that e-mail adress? T20 is not stupid, what would the reason be to do that if you tried to hide or if it was not known before even.

---

Originally by: Allen Deckard

---

Originally by: niroshido

---

well as i said alot of ppl hate BOB
and alot of others are paranoid, sometimes we get both combined forming
"THE WITCH HUNTERS"
these ppl like to feed off anything and create crasy ideas of curruption

like UFO believers they believe the governments hide info bout UFO's and create unsual and crazy theories bout certain things

(not saying the governments dont hide info hehe)

---

and if it was found out that the government hit just one little flying saucer? maybe not a whole fleet but just a small one.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Punishment for whaT?

---

Originally by: dimensionz

---

...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

---

Originally by: Big Al

---

It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

You misunderstand what you are quoting. The "intel" referred to was the upcoming Serpentis Titan event, WHICH EVERY MAJOR ALLIANCE GOT A WARNING OF. I know .5. did and I know -G- did.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dianabolic
CCP are going to run an event in Fountain that lasts 6 monthts, including building a serpentis outpost, utilitising npc dreadnoughts and titans, installing npc POS that we're expected to take down, etc. This will coincide with NPC factions teaming up with player factions to fight other npc factions, for various rewards of whatever type.

Why haven't I blurted this out to all and sundry? You're all ****ed off that I haven't immediately made a post on here saying OMG OMG OMG LOOK WHAT CCP ARE GOING TO DO, yet I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.

You think I WANTED to keep this from you?

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Punishment for whaT?

---

... punishment for looking the other way or turning a blind eye to developer collusion.

To pretend that a significant number of BoB directors did not know what the score was with T20 is laughable.

I refer you to the dimensionz quote.. posted earlier in this thread..

Originally by: dimensionz

---

...hell even t20 secret infos i had in the past, i trusted u all with those

---

For all we know this was the tip of the iceberg..... BoB let their ambition cloud their good judgement when it came to overlooking what must have obviously been insider information.

Since we cannot know who exactly knew what ... BoB must be collectively punished by either disbandment or some gargantuan fine that will set them back substantially... if nothing else as a warning to others that if they suspect any dev misconduct within their alliance they must seek it out and elminate it.. for their own good.

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Big Al

---

It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy.

It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Originally by: Allen Deckard

---

Originally by: niroshido

---

well as i said alot of ppl hate BOB
and alot of others are paranoid, sometimes we get both combined forming
"THE WITCH HUNTERS"
these ppl like to feed off anything and create crasy ideas of curruption

like UFO believers they believe the governments hide info bout UFO's and create unsual and crazy theories bout certain things

(not saying the governments dont hide info hehe)

---

and if it was found out that the government hit just one little flying saucer? maybe not a whole fleet but just a small one.

---

No this is more like finding out that the government under-exagerated the death-toll in Iraq, and as a result concluding that they must be lying about flying saucers as well.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

What would you honestly have done in the same situation? Kicked him? Made his identity public? Knowing a Devs identity is NOT wrong. There is no evidence of knowing collusion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dianabolic
CCP are going to run an event in Fountain that lasts 6 monthts, including building a serpentis outpost, utilitising npc dreadnoughts and titans, installing npc POS that we're expected to take down, etc. This will coincide with NPC factions teaming up with player factions to fight other npc factions, for various rewards of whatever type.

Why haven't I blurted this out to all and sundry? You're all ****ed off that I haven't immediately made a post on here saying OMG OMG OMG LOOK WHAT CCP ARE GOING TO DO, yet I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.

You think I WANTED to keep this from you?

---

Originally by: Vile rat

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

What would you honestly have done in the same situation? Kicked him? Made his identity public? Knowing a Devs identity is NOT wrong. There is no evidence of knowing collusion.

---

Actually knowing a Dev's identity is wrong if for no other reason than the Dev let their identity be known to a player and this ruins their ability to play as a player.

There is no "Discover Dev identity" skill as far as I know and there is no way aside from a Dev telling a player in confidence for a player to know a Dev's identity. That the Dev told a player who they were shows us that the Dev was willing to break fairly obvious rules in order to "hang with his buds" on this virtual game and this terrifies me because if they are willing to break this rule, what other rules have they broken for their friends?

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Big Al

---

It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy.

It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.

---

Ban all of Remedial and Mittanis accounts for the same reason? ok?

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dianabolic
CCP are going to run an event in Fountain that lasts 6 monthts, including building a serpentis outpost, utilitising npc dreadnoughts and titans, installing npc POS that we're expected to take down, etc. This will coincide with NPC factions teaming up with player factions to fight other npc factions, for various rewards of whatever type.

Why haven't I blurted this out to all and sundry? You're all ****ed off that I haven't immediately made a post on here saying OMG OMG OMG LOOK WHAT CCP ARE GOING TO DO, yet I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.

You think I WANTED to keep this from you?

---

I mean for crying out loud.. read this stuff... its in black and white.. BoB were recieving information from CCP, they effectively recieved t2 bpo's from CCP ... who knows what else has being going on...

Tbh I think we can't even handle the truth... its too awful to contemplate.

CCP must punish BoB and must punish themeselves... there has to be some big punishment handed out here. Something that makes sense and makes the thousands of EVE players that feel their trust has been violated, feel like its worth logging in to play the game that they have sunk inummerable effort and time into.

Its just not fair.. and those of you who can't see it.. have your heads in the sand.

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Big Al

---

It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy.

It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.

---

Ban all of Remedial and Mittanis accounts for the same reason? ok?

---

That'd be no skin off my back... but I have a hard time feeling bad about a cheating dev being outed publicly, any more than I would about a dirty cop or a corrupt politician. And given that CCP chose to try to whitewash their devs cheating in the first place, and only responded when the issue was shoved in their face, was the action really inappropriate?

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

In every online game i've played, the top players are always accused of cheating, are hated and are constantly being brought down by other players. Apparently it's no different in EVE.

Looking at this from here, not being directly involved, just like the vast majority of you people who are posting here, i cannot but feel ashamed at the EVE community.
You people are so arrogant to think and presume that you know more than CCP about this issue. Worste, you want to be the ones deciding what CCP does or does not do in relation to these incidents. YOU PEOPLE ARE SICK.
CCP has stated, for the record, there is no evidence that any of the players allegedly involved knew of T20's actions. Nor did they know that the "spawned" bpo's were not legal. How can you assume that they knew? Where is the proof? " oh but Kugutsumen posted...bla bla bla. "But he did bla bla bla..."
Kugutsumen is not an innocet guy. He did not hack (note, illegal action here!) into someone else's forums, gaining illegal access to people's personal information to "save the eve community". He did it to cause harm. He did it with malicious intent. And you people are buying into it.

CCP's internal problems are not our concern. This issue was discovered when it happened, and CCP dealt with it in the way they saw fit. End of story.

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

CCP's internal problems are not our concern. This issue was discovered when it happened, and CCP dealt with it in the way they saw fit. End of story.

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

CCP must punish BoB and must punish themeselves...

---

Originally by: Domaar

---

BOB leaders accepted BPOs.(and possibly other helps.)
Let them chew over that.

BOB leaders robbed the honor and glory of victory from the honest BOB fighters. They are branded 'cheaters'. Fron now on and forever. Every prizes are tainted with it.

What a pity.

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

CCP's internal problems are not our concern. This issue was discovered when it happened, and CCP dealt with it in the way they saw fit. End of story.

---

CCP's 'internal problems' have resulted in an in-game alliance having a whole range of unfair advantages... and they had to be repeatedly confronted with proof of the malfeasance before they'd even doing anything about it. Even now, they haven't taken the steps (firing the dev) that they claimed they would. It's damned well our problem!

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

CCP's internal problems are not our concern. This issue was discovered when it happened, and CCP dealt with it in the way they saw fit. End of story.

---

CCP's 'internal problems' have resulted in an in-game alliance having a whole range of unfair advantages... and they had to be repeatedly confronted with proof of the malfeasance before they'd even doing anything about it. Even now, they haven't taken the steps (firing the dev) that they claimed they would. It's damned well our problem!

---

What's the whole "range of unfair advantages"? What are they and what proof/basis do you say this on?
Link here concrete proof of what you say.

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

What's the whole "range of unfair advantages"? What are they and what proof/basis do you say this on?
Link here concrete proof of what you say.

---

Originally by: Domaar

---

BOB leaders accepted BPOs.(and possibly other helps.)
Let them chew over that.

BOB leaders robbed the honor and glory of victory from the honest BOB fighters. They are branded 'cheaters'. Fron now on and forever. Every prizes are tainted with it.

What a pity.

---

Originally by: Dynast

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

What's the whole "range of unfair advantages"? What are they and what proof/basis do you say this on?
Link here concrete proof of what you say.

---

Get off your butt and do your own research. Or maybe just read the posts on this thread.

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

Get off yours and present evidence.

---

Originally by: Calenth

---

Edited by: Calenth on 12/02/2007 13:15:37
I will say that the people calling for molle's head because of account sharing are going too far. Account sharing shouldn't be bannable for anyone, and CCP should change the EULA on that point.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

**** 'concrete', how about ANY proof. Inferring some bull**** from ambiguous statements and saying "we know this so therefore we an assume this" is just stupid.

---

Originally by: Kyra Azor

---

Originally by: Cosmic Blunder

---

Get off yours and present evidence.

---

I say it again. There is evidence t20 gave RKK directors (dimensionZ in particular) some intel (not about Serpentis event as Edde Bebbi tried to twist it) then he shared them with the rest of the RKK directors. Sure we don't know what that intel was and how it affected alliance politics in the EVE universe. And we don't have the means to check. That's CCP's job. But suspicion is enough for the public to be angry. That's why a thorough and open investigation is needed to prove if those under suspicion (RKK directors and t20) are innocent or guilty of this particular "crime".
I am sorry I had to post basically the same thing 4-5 times in this thread, but I am sick of some trying to twist facts, and then say there are no evidence.

---

Originally by: MotherTrucka

---

oo bad this has stopped being about Facts and has moved onto Perception. The Perception of Impropriety is there now. No matter how much 2 Alts want to deflect the matter back into the Proof stage the facts of the matter stand.

Fact BoB has been accused in the past of insider Developer Help
Fact BoB has Consistently and vehemently denied these Accusations
Fact BoB has been outed for a single instance of Developer Help and Proven to have Active Developers in it's Upper leadership

The Fact that this chain of Events happens causes a more serious chain of accusations that may or may not be provable. Thus the Perception stands ergo BoB = Cheaters Regardless if this true on the Macro or micro scale within BoB itself. The legions of BoB forums *****s have not come forward with any reasonable defense since the story broke. Ergo perception is they have been either Gagged internally, externally, or have no defense that can be reasonably used to prove their own innocence.
(apologies to blacklight and Avon who have both stepped forward)

Also the simple fact that so many corporate unknowns are stepping up to defend BoB creates the perception that boB is using Alts to muddy the waters with the simple "You can't prove it it must be untrue argument." The Problem here is that since single event that was easily traceable by CCP has been proven true, and the confession we got wasn't a confession it was coerced by public pressure that the rest of the allegations must be true also.

---

Originally by: Edde Bebbi

---

Edited by: Edde Bebbi on 12/02/2007 13:28:12

Never take up law. You cant possibly say "They were accused of A & B, denied it and unknowingly B was actually true therefore A is true".

People like the people in this thread are what makes documentarys such as "Short Change" so popular. I thought this game attracted a higher caliber of intellect but no, its the same alarmist conspiricy theory nutjobs as WoW and every other internet community.

---

Originally by: Zantazar

---

Well, CosmicBlunder Nocorpticker, and Edde Bebbe, we do like our caps key don't we. I must visit the doctor as I happen to be ONE OF THOSE SICK PEOPLE. Bringing up certain alleged misdemenours from the past by other alliances is simply attempting to hijack the thread away from the main point.

There were many rumours and accusations against BOB during the war, I personally never believed any of them as I always regarded CYVOK (and certain others) as arrogant, and they would say anything to weasel out of a situation. However, now that certain matters have come to light, a think that a thorough investigation that is open to the EVE public is required. It is obvious that the above mentioned posters have their own agenda for not pursuing this. I feel that the overwhelming EVE base will demand it.
It is correct in principle, and you know it. Flame away.

---

Originally by: Sinlare

---

Originally by: Liet Traep

---

[
Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there.

---

So why aren't you calling for The Mittani to be banned? Because GoonSwarm is your ally? He did exactly the same.

---

Originally by: Liet Traep

---

Edited by: Liet Traep on 12/02/2007 13:51:24

Originally by: Sinlare

---

Originally by: Liet Traep

---

[
Personally I think BoB got off lightly. Sir Molle gave out a players RL info. That should be a permaban right there.

---

So why aren't you calling for The Mittani to be banned? Because GoonSwarm is your ally? He did exactly the same.

---

I wasn't aware of it. Ban him also. I think The Mittani is more likely to be banned than Sir Molle though. I think there is a clear bias towards BoB in this game. All of their accomplishments are now tainted for me. I'll never know how much of what they achieved they earned or how much were given to them because they had devs playing in their alliance and at least one of them admitted to cheating.

---

Originally by: MuthaTrucka

---

Fact BoB has been accused in the past of insider Developer Help
Fact BoB has Consistently and vehemently denied these Accusations
Fact BoB has been outed for a single instance of Developer Help and Proven to have Active Developers in it's Upper leadership

---

Originally by: welsh wizard

---

You can't fault BoB's determination and comradery. They earnt pretty much everything they succeeded in accomplishing. If we're being honest this whole dev scandal thing is just a bunch of tabloid like sensationailized crud. Everyone likes a good scandal aye? Not this bunny, I think this is where the lines between game and something to be taken seriously have become blurred. Then again I guess our hard earned cash is involved in a detached sense. Still, its not that big a deal as far as I'm concerned.

My real gripe is that some of them think "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" doesn't apply because they're playing a computer game.

I guess every entity can be accussed of this though aye?

---

Originally by: Tiuwaz

---

if you really think that all this is just about the bpos then you are very naive

---

Quote:

---

fully and utterly exploited by the enemies of BoB in an attempt to weaken them.

---

Originally by: Sionn Klorgh

---

Something BOB are experts at I might add. The thing that bugs me the most are the endless posts I've had to read from BOB preaching conduct and ethics to other alliances they fought (ASCN internal forums come to mind) while in the end, BOB is caught with their*****s in their hands.

---

Originally by: Dekiri

---

.

Add on top of this that the person designing the tournament rules happened to be in TAOSP(lemonde) and the many "strange things" that are happening when BoB turns up somewhere.

---

Originally by: welsh wizard

---

You can't fault BoB's determination and comradery. They earnt pretty much everything they succeeded in accomplishing. If we're being honest this whole dev scandal thing is just a bunch of tabloid like sensationailized crud. Everyone likes a good scandal aye? Not this bunny, I think this is where the lines between game and something to be taken seriously have become blurred. Then again I guess our hard earned cash is involved in a detached sense. Still, its not that big a deal as far as I'm concerned.

My real gripe is that some of them think "Treat others as you'd like to be treated" doesn't apply because they're playing a computer game.

I guess every entity can be accussed of this though aye?

---

Originally by: darth solo

---

Originally by: Dekiri

---

.

Add on top of this that the person designing the tournament rules happened to be in TAOSP(lemonde) and the many "strange things" that are happening when BoB turns up somewhere.

---

is that a joke?, lemonde is in BOB?.

d solo.

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

I actually do have a lot of sympathy for BoB.

It's an awful thing when people undertake a 'moral crusade' to persecute your alliance for something that happened outside of the game, particularly when the cassus belli was discovered in a private section of your own forums and the wrongdoing was committed only by one member out of thousands.

It really sucks to have that wrongdoing attributed to your whole alliance, and then have the rest of the galaxy come after you in one big bandwagon, all the while beating their chests about how they are morally correct and how you are bad people who should quit the game.

Oh wait.

The witchhunt will continue until there's nothing left but ashes.

---

Originally by: Bellon

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

I actually do have a lot of sympathy for BoB.

It's an awful thing when people undertake a 'moral crusade' to persecute your alliance for something that happened outside of the game, particularly when the cassus belli was discovered in a private section of your own forums and the wrongdoing was committed only by one member out of thousands.

It really sucks to have that wrongdoing attributed to your whole alliance, and then have the rest of the galaxy come after you in one big bandwagon, all the while beating their chests about how they are morally correct and how you are bad people who should quit the game.

Oh wait.

The witchhunt will continue until there's nothing left but ashes.

---

The difference is, when BoB had beef with you, they took it ingame.

---

Originally by: Bellon

---

The difference is, when BoB had beef with you, they took it ingame.

When you had beef with BoB, you gave interviews to outside news sources that will cause HUGE HUGE damage to Eve and may even threaten its future, all because of some 'meta-gaming' concept you are so inlove with.

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: Bellon

---

When you had beef with BoB, you gave interviews to outside news sources that will cause HUGE HUGE damage to Eve and may even threaten its future, all because of some 'meta-gaming' concept you are so inlove with.

---

Originally by: Calenth

---

Edited by: Calenth on 12/02/2007 15:16:18

Originally by: Bellon

---

The difference is, when BoB had beef with you, they took it ingame.

When you had beef with BoB, you gave interviews to outside news sources that will cause HUGE HUGE damage to Eve and may even threaten its future, all because of some 'meta-gaming' concept you are so inlove with.

---

Oh, I get it. The real evil-doers here are those dastardly whistleblowers who exposed the cheaters! Cheating doesn't hurt the game unless the cheaters are caught!

It's really pathetic to watch people try to spin and justify all this. I think the moral-equivalency arguments are the worst ("What BoB did is dandy because Goonfleet kicked a puppy once! See, Over There! Goons! Look over there at the goons, not at us!")

---

Originally by: Prydeless

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

BoB are cheaters, at least sirmolle galavet, dianabolic etc etc are. So quit with the fanboy attitude....

---

Originally by: Troubadour

---

frankly i think those who have been pointing fingers and judging an entire alliance on the basis of 1 member have been acting like jealous children.

---

Originally by: Ione Hunt

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

CCP must punish BoB and must punish themeselves...

---

But the common BoB member who new nothing about all this shouldn't be punished.

If I break into someone's house and steel their flatscreen TV (need a new one), the cops aren't allowed to put my whole family into prison...at least in most countries

---

Originally by: Bellon

---

Originally by: darth solo

---

Originally by: Dekiri

---

.

Add on top of this that the person designing the tournament rules happened to be in TAOSP(lemonde) and the many "strange things" that are happening when BoB turns up somewhere.

---

is that a joke?, lemonde is in BOB?.

d solo.

---

They have decided that Vegeta (an icelandic PvPer who was 15 when hewas in m0o) is Lemonde.

---

Originally by: Nihilo Deus

---

Originally by: Ione Hunt

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

---

CCP must punish BoB and must punish themeselves...

---

But the common BoB member who new nothing about all this shouldn't be punished.

If I break into someone's house and steel their flatscreen TV (need a new one), the cops aren't allowed to put my whole family into prison...at least in most countries

---

Quite right. But you should be prisoned and all that was stolen should be taken away from you. At least in most countries

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Originally by: Edde Bebbi

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Originally by: Allen Deckard

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Originally by: niroshido

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well as i said alot of ppl hate BOB
and alot of others are paranoid, sometimes we get both combined forming
"THE WITCH HUNTERS"
these ppl like to feed off anything and create crasy ideas of curruption

like UFO believers they believe the governments hide info bout UFO's and create unsual and crazy theories bout certain things

(not saying the governments dont hide info hehe)

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and if it was found out that the government hit just one little flying saucer? maybe not a whole fleet but just a small one.

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No this is more like finding out that the government under-exagerated the death-toll in Iraq, and as a result concluding that they must be lying about flying saucers as well.

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Originally by: Max Teranous

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Let those who are innocent cast the first stone, and all that.

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Originally by: Edde Bebbi

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Originally by: Dynast

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Originally by: Edde Bebbi

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Originally by: Dynast

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Originally by: Big Al

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It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy.

It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.

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Ban all of Remedial and Mittanis accounts for the same reason? ok?

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That'd be no skin off my back... but I have a hard time feeling bad about a cheating dev being outed publicly, any more than I would about a dirty cop or a corrupt politician. And given that CCP chose to try to whitewash their devs cheating in the first place, and only responded when the issue was shoved in their face, was the action really inappropriate?

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I 100% agree with your assessment of CCPs dealing with the situation. They couldnt have handled it worse. But 90% of the flaming on the forums is more about BoB hatred than it is about CCP fairness.

People want BoB to go down and are using this as a (subconscious in some cases) pretext.

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Originally by: Harkan Ramientes

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Originally by: Edde Bebbi

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Originally by: Dynast

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Originally by: Edde Bebbi

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Originally by: Dynast

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Originally by: Big Al

---

It's not a witchhunt when the allegations end up being true.

Now that transgressions have been admitted people will never let it go.

---

Well.. I think people might let it go if CCP actually stepped up to the plate and stopped shielding Band of Brothers. Ban all of Molle's accounts for his posting of real life information on the boards. Take punitive steps against RKK directors.. multiple t2 BPO's don't just 'happen' to come out of a player's pocket who, oh, also 'happens' to be a dev; taking advantage of obviously ill-gotten goods is criminal. Most of all, the dev(s) in question need to be fired. And all of this needs to be done openly, and to hell with their opaque "we don't talk about what we do, just trust us" B.S., that's already been tried and CCP has been proven untrustworthy.

It's up to CCP to re-establish their credibility. And as for BoB, and the near endless string of 'stuff' that happens around them... well, it'd be interesting to see how much 'stuff' happens after a firing and a few dozen account bans.

---

Ban all of Remedial and Mittanis accounts for the same reason? ok?

---

That'd be no skin off my back... but I have a hard time feeling bad about a cheating dev being outed publicly, any more than I would about a dirty cop or a corrupt politician. And given that CCP chose to try to whitewash their devs cheating in the first place, and only responded when the issue was shoved in their face, was the action really inappropriate?

---

I 100% agree with your assessment of CCPs dealing with the situation. They couldnt have handled it worse. But 90% of the flaming on the forums is more about BoB hatred than it is about CCP fairness.

People want BoB to go down and are using this as a (subconscious in some cases) pretext.

---

till they will discover that the sword they are actually using with so much joy is double-edged

do not misunderstand me, I'm not saying that "everything is fine" but creating a precedent of "you win, therefore you *ALL* cheat" and fanning this fire is like playing with matches near explosives

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Originally by: Bellon

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Originally by: The Mittani

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I actually do have a lot of sympathy for BoB.

It's an awful thing when people undertake a 'moral crusade' to persecute your alliance for something that happened outside of the game, particularly when the cassus belli was discovered in a private section of your own forums and the wrongdoing was committed only by one member out of thousands.

It really sucks to have that wrongdoing attributed to your whole alliance, and then have the rest of the galaxy come after you in one big bandwagon, all the while beating their chests about how they are morally correct and how you are bad people who should quit the game.

Oh wait.

The witchhunt will continue until there's nothing left but ashes.

---

The difference is, when BoB had beef with you, they took it ingame.

When you had beef with BoB, you gave interviews to outside news sources that will cause HUGE HUGE damage to Eve and may even threaten its future, all because of some 'meta-gaming' concept you are so inlove with.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Just one reaction to all those who call this a witchhunt.

Maybe it is.

But the reason for the witchhunt can be summed up in one short sentence: Karma is a *****.

With all the underhanded, arrogent, self-absorbed, villifying and plain disgusting contributions by BoB in this forum over the years, its time BoB knows what its like to be on the other side. So any BoB out there wondering why this is happening, think about all the times you or your corp/alliance mates abused people verbally on these forums. And consider this payback, with accrued interest.

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Originally by: Harkan Ramientes

---

---

Originally by: R'adeh

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Originally by: Harkan Ramientes

---

---

I think no one in his right mind is accusing ALL of BoB. But something has gone wrong, and BoB members and supporters defending that bullcrap instead of admitting what happened sucks, are only fueling the fire. I'm not expecting BoB members to make posts such as "yeah, we suck", but rather "what happened is completely against what I stand for". **** happens, but not admitting that something is wrong is even worse than the actual misconduct!

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Originally by: Beyond Horizon

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Originally by: Bellon

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Originally by: The Mittani

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I actually do have a lot of sympathy for BoB.

It's an awful thing when people undertake a 'moral crusade' to persecute your alliance for something that happened outside of the game, particularly when the cassus belli was discovered in a private section of your own forums and the wrongdoing was committed only by one member out of thousands.

It really sucks to have that wrongdoing attributed to your whole alliance, and then have the rest of the galaxy come after you in one big bandwagon, all the while beating their chests about how they are morally correct and how you are bad people who should quit the game.

Oh wait.

The witchhunt will continue until there's nothing left but ashes.

---

The difference is, when BoB had beef with you, they took it ingame.

When you had beef with BoB, you gave interviews to outside news sources that will cause HUGE HUGE damage to Eve and may even threaten its future, all because of some 'meta-gaming' concept you are so inlove with.

---

UM so your Saying BoB isn't in love with the concept of Meta-gaming? I mean they have a little rule book on it don't they? Just because someone has elevated Meta-Gaming to an entirely new level doesn't absolve BoB of perfecting it in its nascent level. Actually it seems to have bitten them on the butt rather hard. Being out meta gamed must hurt.

---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.

Originally by: babylonstew

---

funny thing is, there used to be lota of post along the lines of
'if you dont like bob, why not all team and go and kill them' and things to that effect
used to hear it for months and months
then all of a sudden, everyone teams and goes for bob, and now its a withc hunt .
funny how time kinda warps your perspecitve aint it.

---

Originally by: Tiuwaz

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if you really think that all this is just about the bpos then you are very naive

---

Quote:

---

We would like to thank everyone for their comments and voicing their concerns over these recent allegations. We have answered as many questions in this forum thread as possible, t20 has issued an apology for his part and Hellmar (CCP's CEO for those that are unaware) has also issued a statement.

We are looking towards the future, what we can do to improve EVE and repair the recent damage done to the EVE community. We ask the community to assist in this endeavour.


kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online

---

Originally by: Ander

---

Edited by: Ander on 12/02/2007 10:22:03
EVE-Online.de had intel about peoples IP adresses fed to BoB so they could identify alts and spies.

---

Quote:

---

Somehow the same intel which DB Preacher claimed to be fabricated, revealed all of this. Sir Molle posted Kugu's (the one who recieved the leaked bob-board database dump) personal info on eve-o forums and encouraged people to call his job to have him fired.
Some mods removed that info but it was up long enough for people to start calling Kugu's employer.

---

Quote:

---

From this database-dump which was posted on a closed intel-board run by Kugu some portions were leaked to eve-o forums. Eventually some personal info of t20 (the cheating dev) was re-posted on eve-o forums. Kugu's eve accounts got banned due to the personal info leaking onto eve-o. However, Sir Molle who posted directly to eve-o forums remain in-game without any slap on the wrist.

---

Quote:

---

On goes the battle between BoB followers, many who are close to CCP says "Kugu's a hacker, he deserves to be banned.". Totally overlooking the fact that MANY high-ups in BoB remain unpunished for account-sharing for cynonet(claims CCP-dev never knew about this, although he was leader of their capital-ship fleet and had an active account on the bob-boards where this cynonet info was posted. The second dev had a char in BoB until feb 2007 so how they could miss out on this info, is to me entirely impossible.)

---

Quote:

---

Account-transfers by RL-money (of course cannot be proven cause appearently the bob board info is fabricated... how the heck could t20 be proven to have given bpo's then?).

---

Quote:

---

EVE-Online.de admins remain unpunished (no official statement yet, just "internal investigation") for gathering intel about peoples IP's and connecting them to their alts and mains.

---

Quote:

---

I dont say it was right of Kugu to post who t20 were on the closed intel board, but this info was public info before it got posted. BoB leaders knew about it, and t20 himself posted the info on their boards.

Of course... all intel from BoB boards are fabricated, according to DB preacher... so appearently the info about the dev must be fabricated too? ;)

What a mess this whole history has turned out to be..

---

Originally by: Troubadour

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Originally by: Prydeless

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Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

BoB are cheaters, at least sirmolle galavet, dianabolic etc etc are. So quit with the fanboy attitude....

---

Proof or STFU.

---

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

Originally by: RadarJack

---

Quote:

---

We would like to thank everyone for their comments and voicing their concerns over these recent allegations. We have answered as many questions in this forum thread as possible, t20 has issued an apology for his part and Hellmar (CCP's CEO for those that are unaware) has also issued a statement.

We are looking towards the future, what we can do to improve EVE and repair the recent damage done to the EVE community. We ask the community to assist in this endeavour.


kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online

---

Lol, thats some kind of in-joke right ? right ? 3200 posts...

---

Originally by: Kren Mobius

---

Edited by: Kren Mobius on 12/02/2007 17:00:43

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

I have reserved posting about this until now as when I first heard about it I was shocked that this type of thing could occur. What I find abhorred is that if someone is willing to RISK their job by spawning almost $4000.00 worth of T2 BPOÆs (going off GTC sales to isk value) to impress their *virtual* friends, what type of information are they boasting about in teamspeak? What secrets of the game, what bugs or workarounds that are only known to CCP being shared? All those times you had your deep safe spot *****ed in a matter of seconds? All those times you lost a lag filled fleet fight? Or you couldnÆt lock æright awayÆ? to simply say he JUST gave T2 BPO's is a laughable thing.

I pride myself on honor and dignity and If I were in BOB I would have resigned roles 1 second after reading T20's apology, if I were a friend of BoB I would give them 30 minutes notice that they are now set to red. Bottom line, they're tainted, is it fair? no, is it the communitys fault tho? No.

---

Originally by: Sinlare

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Just one reaction to all those who call this a witchhunt.

Maybe it is.

But the reason for the witchhunt can be summed up in one short sentence: Karma is a *****.

With all the underhanded, arrogent, self-absorbed, villifying and plain disgusting contributions by BoB in this forum over the years, its time BoB knows what its like to be on the other side. So any BoB out there wondering why this is happening, think about all the times you or your corp/alliance mates abused people verbally on these forums. And consider this payback, with accrued interest.

---

Everytime i read something from you it makes me realise you actually think this is all true in real life, it makes me feel sorry for you - even though i don't like you.

---

Originally by: RadarJack

---

Quote:

---

We would like to thank everyone for their comments and voicing their concerns over these recent allegations. We have answered as many questions in this forum thread as possible, t20 has issued an apology for his part and Hellmar (CCP's CEO for those that are unaware) has also issued a statement.

We are looking towards the future, what we can do to improve EVE and repair the recent damage done to the EVE community. We ask the community to assist in this endeavour.


kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online

---

Lol, thats some kind of in-joke right ? right ? 3200 posts...

---

Originally by: Kren Mobius

---

Edited by: Kren Mobius on 12/02/2007 17:06:49
Edited by: Kren Mobius on 12/02/2007 17:00:43

Originally by: Lunarra

---

Where is gone the respect for the ennemy?

Do people really believe that BOB got to where they are by getting a few BPOs easely? Statisticly they are some of the oldest players in EvE, then they likely to have more BPOs that other alliances.
Corps inside BOB are leaving because its so called corruption? Or are they not leaving like rats leaving a sinking ship? I mean, its not new in EvE to see alliance losing its members because of a war not going quiet the way they anticipated! THOSE should not get any respect!
Its just TOO EASY to accuse people of cheating when they are powerfull!

Corruption occure at EVERY levels, from CEOs, alliance leaders to RL of course. We don't live in a perfect world! I just can't believe it actually shock so much the community!

Here is a phrase that i can't remember where it is from:
- "The only thing that man take seriously are games"

We are fighting BOB, we wish them dead. But it has nothing to do with corruption or other BSHT.

Lets all enjoy the fight!

---

I have reserved posting about this until now as when I first heard about it I was shocked that this type of thing could occur. What I find abhorred is that if someone is willing to RISK their job by spawning almost $4000.00 worth of T2 BPOÆs (going off GTC sales to isk value) to impress their *virtual* friends, what type of information are they boasting about in teamspeak? What secrets of the game, what bugs or workarounds that are only known to CCP being shared? All those times you had your deep safe spot *****ed in a matter of seconds? All those times you lost a lag filled fleet fight? Or you couldnÆt lock æright awayÆ? to simply say he JUST gave T2 BPO's is a laughable thing.

I pride myself on honor and dignity and If I were in BOB I would have resigned roles 1 second after reading T20's apology, if I were a friend of BoB I would give them 30 minutes notice that they are now set to red. Bottom line, they're tainted, is it fair? no, is it the communitys fault tho? No.

*edit*
If you like quotes, here's one I live by

"The decisions you make, make you"

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