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CCP JV1V Node-Crash Decision, take 2

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Haas Tabris	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:12:00 - [1] Ahh, can't post GM eve-mails in the forums. Roger that. CCP pretty much said they aren't going to do anything about the JV1V node crash and the LV loss of a titan under construction. See orignal post here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477023 The GM claimed, in his evemail response to the LV petition, that the node crash is a fair tactic because both sides will have the same problem logging back into the crashed node. I would like to put forth that this is not quite true. LV lost the fight because the adjacent node supporting M-R did NOT crash. So, as soon as the JV1V node was reset, their fleet could begin jumping into the system. The LV fleet had to go back to their login screens, log into the game, and then wait in queue to get back into the system. This gave the goonfleet an unfair advantage. It's really about that simple.
Vistilantus Caldari Salvaging and Exploration Co.	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:14:00 - [2] so why does jumping into a system make it easier than logging into a system? surely neither takes priority? ___________________________________________________ ~Vistilantus
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:14:00 - [3] mentioning GM claims can also be enough to get snipped. plus the reposting so quick might get a clickie anyhow.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:15:00 - [4] There are alot of things that are unfair in this game. Like local which works as a big Pirate in the system alarm but I don't get a big miner in the system alarm. Or alts for example. The list can go on Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:33:00 - [5] Since the players themselves have no idea what systems reside on what nodes, you cant hold them responsible for any 'unfair advantage' gained by a node crash. Buhu No matter what you achieve in this game, it'll will always be tainted by the fact you cheated to get there.
Pattonator CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Vistilantus so why does jumping into a system make it easier than logging into a system? surely neither takes priority? Jump-ins do take priority as they are already in game. Jump-ins may face a jump queue that lasts a minute or two. It took me an hour an forty five minutes to log-in and by then we had about 40 friendlies in the system and over 650 hostiles who jumped through a gate which previously had been heavily defended. LV and friends had over 70 cap ships in JV1 when the node crashed ready to kill any dread fleet. There were hundreds of pilots including over 100 sniping BS ready to pop any ship that had to traverse over 100km's to get out of the massive bubble defense. GM's say they don't understand how either side could have benefited with the node crash but it is quite clear that ALL LV pilots crashed and only about 1/3 of the attacking force crashed. It is moronic that CCP allows hostile ships to log off in a system in the first place. Not that Eve is reality but imagine that spaceships from different universes did fight. Would it make sense for an entire fleet to disappear because they are going to bed. When it is time for them to fight they just all magically reappear. Imagine that in real war. LV has lots of enemies but we didn't think that CCP was one of them. We thought that their goal was a fair playing field for all. In this case LV held the field of battle. They reset the playing field wiping the entire defense off the map (not that it would aid the offensive force in anyway.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin There are alot of things that are unfair in this game. Like local which works as a big Pirate in the system alarm but I don't get a big miner in the system alarm. Or alts for example. The list can go on Aurora: Purple alert! Purple alert! Miners in the system! Player: Eh? Aurora: Purple alert... Player: WTF ya mean, purple alert? This the ship Formerly Known as... Barney or something? Aurora: Well I'd say red, but the bulbs out... Player: Oh.. ok... What's with the minors then? What? I have to mind myself just because their parents cba to, hmmm... parent? Aurora: No ya thick git. Miners not minors! Go. Get them! Player: Ah, right! Now where they at then? Aurora: <sigh> Look, ya spent all your isk on this silly miner alert system. If ya can't sort out the navigation yourself. Well, paddle, no... creek, yes... up it. Eh? only a couple of movies or tv shows were ripped off in the making of this totally irrelevant post. thank you, enjoy your evening ------------------- Ignorance
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.20 21:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin There are alot of things that are unfair in this game. Like local which works as a big Pirate in the system alarm but I don't get a big miner in the system alarm. Or alts for example. The list can go on Aurora: Purple alert! Purple alert! Miners in the system! Player: Eh? Aurora: Purple alert... Player: WTF ya mean, purple alert? This the ship Formerly Known as... Barney or something? Aurora: Well I'd say red, but the bulbs out... Player: Oh.. ok... What's with the minors then? What? I have to mind myself just because their parents cba to, hmmm... parent? Aurora: No ya thick git. Miners not minors! Go. Get them! Player: Ah, right! Now where they at then? Aurora: <sigh> Look, ya spent all your isk on this silly miner alert system. If ya can't sort out the navigation yourself. Well, paddle, no... creek, yes... up it. Eh? only a couple of movies or tv shows were ripped off in the making of this totally irrelevant post. thank you, enjoy your evening Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
matty01 Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Pattonator Originally by: Vistilantus so why does jumping into a system make it easier than logging into a system? surely neither takes priority? Jump-ins do take priority as they are already in game. Jump-ins may face a jump queue that lasts a minute or two. It took me an hour an forty five minutes to log-in and by then we had about 40 friendlies in the system and over 650 hostiles who jumped through a gate which previously had been heavily defended. LV and friends had over 70 cap ships in JV1 when the node crashed ready to kill any dread fleet. There were hundreds of pilots including over 100 sniping BS ready to pop any ship that had to traverse over 100km's to get out of the massive bubble defense. GM's say they don't understand how either side could have benefited with the node crash but it is quite clear that ALL LV pilots crashed and only about 1/3 of the attacking force crashed. It is moronic that CCP allows hostile ships to log off in a system in the first place. Not that Eve is reality but imagine that spaceships from different universes did fight. Would it make sense for an entire fleet to disappear because they are going to bed. When it is time for them to fight they just all magically reappear. Imagine that in real war. LV has lots of enemies but we didn't think that CCP was one of them. We thought that their goal was a fair playing field for all. In this case LV held the field of battle. They reset the playing field wiping the entire defense off the map (not that it would aid the offensive force in anyway. you guys had 70 capitals and over 400 people in system, with 22 large bubbles on the gate and you thought the node would hold? or you didn't think they'd actually jump in on you? sounds like an error on your part __________________________
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:04:00 - [10] Originally by: matty01 you guys had 70 capitals and over 400 people in system, with 22 large bubbles on the gate and you thought the node would hold? or you didn't think they'd actually jump in on you? Sounds like they deliberately tried to have the node crash when the hostiles jumped in OMG haxpl0it! No matter what you achieve in this game, it'll will always be tainted by the fact you cheated to get there.

matty01 Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:07:00 - [11] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: matty01 you guys had 70 capitals and over 400 people in system, with 22 large bubbles on the gate and you thought the node would hold? or you didn't think they'd actually jump in on you? Sounds like they deliberately tried to have the node crash when the hostiles jumped in OMG haxpl0it! lol what i mean is, they had a ton of guys defending, i'm just clueless as to what they thought was gonna break that camp...from what ol boy up their said himself, they were ready to defend against anything...well they brought it, and LV lost plain and simple __________________________
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:09:00 - [12] When the node crashed, we did jump in. However, only about 10 of us ever loaded. So I don't really see how that hurt you so bad. It wasn't until 80% of us filed stuck petitions and got moved out that the system started to stabalize. The problem is simply this: we brought nearly 1000 ships to kill you. you had about 350. The node crashed and everybody logged back in. When the dust settled there were more of us in system than LV. but I'd be willing to bet that the numbers were still in proportion. If half of the original groups never got back into the system then that would leave about 175 against 500. Shamis Censorship is bad
Lubaduba	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:11:00 - [13] Edited by: Lubaduba on 20/02/2007 22:08:06 Stop that b===t finally. All had problems. of 150 RA fleet only 20 were able to log into JV1 after the node crash. (and no we weren't in the system we jumped through the gate). that makes 13%? And if i counted right in local there still were around 70 LV in system - that makes 25% of 300? So u had the login advvantage. Its just that 13% of 1500 is more than 25 of 300. And we all (at least those who have acess to your forum) have seen that post saying - DO NOT TRY TO LOGIN - LET'S PETITION AND WAIT FOR GM'S TO SORT THAT OUT. Will u claim that hasnt been posted and ordered on TS? Thats how u decided to defend the system. And thats y u lost the yard. Cuz some of us waited 3+ hours trying to login. And u decided not to try but to go sleeping and hope for GM help. It's all about the dedication guys.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:12:00 - [14] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 20/02/2007 22:10:45 This node crash was endorsed by CCP because the CCP sanctioned method of removing a titan from the game is exploits, metagaming and a generous use of bovine excrement. Have a nice day. ----- Edit for clarity: I'm not actually suggesting anything deliberate, I'm staying out of that debate. Merely pointing out that if CCP actually resolved exploits, metagaming and the bovine excrement which inevitably surrounds titan deaths, titans would be invincible. - Originally by: Constantine Arcanum (NOTE: ANUS RELATED ANTICS NO LONGER ALLOWED UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY FUNNY OR DEPRAVED)
Pattonator CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:38:00 - [15] Edited by: Pattonator on 20/02/2007 22:37:03
Pattonator CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:40:00 - [16] 1) Almost every LV pilot tried logging on for a minimum of an hour and a half. Granted many of our European members couldn't go much longer than that as it was already very early in the morning for them. We had some members who never got logged on after five hours. 2) Of course we expected reimbursement. CCP screwed up and Valar (Eve Dev Team) admitted such right here on these forums. If RA didn't expect this then that's a joke. Everybody expects when there are severe lag and server problems that they get their stuff back. 3) Some members of the invading forces posted that the local in JV1 had reach about 900. At that time it included about 300 or so LV pilots. Most of whom were staring a black screens for about 30 minutes before Eve crashed to desktop for them. 4) When I logged on finally after an hour 45 minutes it was more than a 5 or 6 to 1 advantage for the invading forces. Where you came up with LV got 25% success rate compared to your 13% success rate must have come straight from your ass. When the RA dreads were shooting at the POS there were only about 20 LV pilots who could actually see anything on their screens. 5) LV's defense numbers and bubbles did not lag out the system. The first wave of goons that jumped in which were all T1 frigs and cruisers were annihilated without too much lag and we have fraps to prove this. What killed the node was RAGOONS doing mass logons as they all jumped in. Then your plan to jump more waves after the node crashed succeeded. We had covert ops in M-RP who watch your forces jump through the gate unhindered. When we finally got one on in JV1 we could tell that jump-ins had very little delay compared to the log-ins. Please deny this fact to show your dishonesty. 6) If the node held and the game played out (without lag in a perfect world) what would have happened? Nobody knows 100% but it took only a few minutes for the first 150 ships to die with only 3 ships lost by LV. We had a meatgrinder setup and we were prepared to grind your forces to pieces. 7) RAGOONS and friends forces were not 1000 during the beginning of the attack. The last few hundred of your forces did not arrive until well after the node crashed. 8) Our carriers were set up with capital shield transfers and would have have been able to recharge shields even before you got your dreads in the system but they were already in JV1 and crashed with the rest of us. 9) We couldn't file stuck petitions because it would move our pilots out of JV1 where they were on the wrong side of your forces. This happened to a couple of our pilots and we were told DO NOT FILE STUCK or you get moved out of JV1. The system should have just been locked down until all logins were completed.
Lubaduba	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:50:00 - [17] I always had respect for my enemie and didnt want to flame. Here is how it looked from my side: The op was planned on 6 am my time so i set alarm cloack to 5.30. 6 am we start. then all the node crashes start and go to 8 am. So already 2 hours on login screens spent. after last nodecrash we try login for another hour. 9 am here - time to go to work. I call my boss on his mobile phone and say that i am very ill and can't work today ^). 9.30 i and other 20 from our fleet are able to login and load the grid. (6am - 9.30) 3.5 hours of starring at logon screen. local is 470 with around 80 hostiles. In the next 10-20 mins almost all hostiles dissapear from local. The sieging starts. System is ours. Capital yard goes down. See - i count around even 4 hours of loging in since the first crash. And a missed working day ^). Like i said - its all about dedication. If ur members stayed and tried to login - there could have been a complete diffrenent situation. But your members decided to give up. I slept 3 hours that day. and the day before when we took gb. and the day before when we camped gb. Thats how it went.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:53:00 - [18] u lost a titan everyone tried to cram onto a node, these things happen its a game youre internet titan went pop we move on
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.20 22:57:00 - [19] Edited by: HankMurphy on 20/02/2007 22:54:59 it would be really cool if CCP could recognize the fact they cant support X number of players on a node. (i think they are slowly getting there) next logical step is to recognize that with current hardware and code implimentation there is nothing they can change to allow for these fights at any given time (atleast thats what i'm getting from the dev comments) so, finallly, we need to come to a conclusion. it is... A) continue with the status quo, let whomever has best luck w/ lag/jumpin win or B) place limits on systems with large fleet battles going on. this would require dev intervention to ensure each side gets relatively equal numbers for the battle, rest will be moved outside of combat area (jump or two away) and gates in would be locked till the dust settled now.. those of you that think the devs are incapable of being trusted w/ this task, STFU before you even click reply. dont wanna hear it. only logical solution as i can see it. let the node crashes commence or regulate the largest of the fleet battles. it takes away from combat strategy unfortunately, but would be the most fair for everyone involved. basically, atleast an actual fight would take place. pick your poison, 6 to one half dozen to the other ------------------------ From here on out i'm pretty sure CAOD forums = Jerry Springer
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:16:00 - [20] I have no dog in this fight... but I feel the need to ask both sides... What was your objective? Defenders, you had (I assume) as many ships as you could arranged to do your best to defend the POS... You were out numbered and out gunned (but some would say better positioned)... Attackers, you were intent on destroying the POS, you had superior forces but an inferior position... This kind of sounds to me like a "Fair Fight" and until the node crashed, it was... After the node crashed the attackers seem to have a distinct advantage in that the game mechanics allows those jumping in faster access to the system then logins... Did I read this right? It seems to me the attackers and defenders wanted that "Good Fight" that allowed their side to be victorious... the POS and it's half a titan were just the excuse for the action. If I am correct in this, do you attackers feel cheated that the game mechanics seemed to have given you an unfair advantage and robbed you of this fight? I know the defenders feel cheated, their tactics with an inferior force were for nothing because of the node crash and the way the game mechanics seem to work. Please, I mean no offence with my post, I am just curious. Noob in training...

hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:19:00 - [21] they broke the chat channels to bad PVPers bad :P
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Haas Tabris LV lost the fight because the adjacent node supporting M-R did NOT crash. So, as soon as the JV1V node was reset, their fleet could begin jumping into the system. The LV fleet had to go back to their login screens, log into the game, and then wait in queue to get back into the system. This gave the goonfleet an unfair advantage. It's really about that simple. Let me get this straight... you are now complaining that other nodes didn't crash? In that hour and a half it took for you to log in, a Goon could have logged into Jita and autopilot down to that system and jumped in. Are you then to petition that they didn't take the Jita node offline because of the battle? The most fair method of determining the outcome of a battle like this is to let things play out as they did. Both sides got hit equally with the crash, both had equal chances of logging back in, and I assume jump-ins had the same lag or a queue or something. If you got your stuff back, the whole fight would have to be done over and the same thing would just happen again. The battle took place, **** happened, you lost, get over it and stop crying all over the forums already!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:27:00 - [23] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 20/02/2007 23:24:30 OMG HAXPLOIT !!!! We crash our node but our neihbourhood didn't... Guess what, they were RAnoobs !! OMG H4XPLOITS !!!! IBTL4LV. ----- History is made by whinners
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Fubear Originally by: Haas Tabris LV lost the fight because the adjacent node supporting M-R did NOT crash. So, as soon as the JV1V node was reset, their fleet could begin jumping into the system. The LV fleet had to go back to their login screens, log into the game, and then wait in queue to get back into the system. This gave the goonfleet an unfair advantage. It's really about that simple. Let me get this straight... you are now complaining that other nodes didn't crash? In that hour and a half it took for you to log in, a Goon could have logged into Jita and autopilot down to that system and jumped in. Are you then to petition that they didn't take the Jita node offline because of the battle? The most fair method of determining the outcome of a battle like this is to let things play out as they did. Both sides got hit equally with the crash, both had equal chances of logging back in, and I assume jump-ins had the same lag or a queue or something. If you got your stuff back, the whole fight would have to be done over and the same thing would just happen again. The battle took place, **** happened, you lost, get over it and stop crying all over the forums already! good sentiments but keep it coming anyway perhaps all the whiners could offer to pay 20% more each month if CCP would put the extra funds into extra hardware to make the game run quicker wonder how many would support that
Aileen Wuornos	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:31:00 - [25] Ya know, I was in the first wave of t1 frigs that you shot up 'with out too much lag'. Well sorry to rain on your fraps but none, and I mean none of our screens loaded before we were shot to bits. So, just count the second wave as calling us even. You got spanked by more ships and all you can do is cry about it. More fighting less crying!!
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:32:00 - [26] more crying less fighting is the motto
Tetsujin Caldari Band of Brosefs	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Pattonator 1) Almost every LV pilot tried logging on for a minimum of an hour and a half. Granted many of our European members couldn't go much longer than that as it was already very early in the morning for them. We had some members who never got logged on after five hours. Were most of your members closing and re-opening the client to try to get in every few minutes or did you guys just click your character portraits and then let it sit there? :\
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Aileen Wuornos Ya know, I was in the first wave of t1 frigs that you shot up 'with out too much lag'. Well sorry to rain on your fraps but none, and I mean none of our screens loaded before we were shot to bits. So, just count the second wave as calling us even. You got spanked by more ships and all you can do is cry about it. More fighting less crying!! Kind of goes against the theory that the greater numbers would have won anyway had the node held up. Just an observation. ------------------- Ignorance
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.20 23:54:00 - [29] and thats the end of that
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.21 00:02:00 - [30] The end of what? Valar is a nice guy but he doesn't deal with reimbursements you know. If customer support says the pos should be restored it will be regardless of his opinion on the matter. -- .sig apathy ftw



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