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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
BoomBoss
Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2016.05.30 12:25:55 -
[61] - Quote
Lord Valian wrote:BoomBoss wrote:Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.
The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.
Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it. Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion.
Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig? |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
548
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Posted - 2016.05.30 13:00:13 -
[62] - Quote
Greygal wrote:Split them apart, so AWU not dependent upon WU.
At the same time, adjust the training time modifier so they have the same modifier, and it's not a terribly long train. At most should not be more than 3x imho.
And the name change suggestion above is BRILLIANT!
GÖÑ I would second this.
Make them two independent skills both with a x2 or x3 training multiplier. There is no reason CPU should be favoured more over PG.
It is like making people train CPU Management to IV before they can inject and train PG management .
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
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Posted - 2016.05.30 13:48:07 -
[63] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote: Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?
Those all require several other skills to be trained to V, as well. The 9- to 10-day train that WU V has is a drop in the bucket compared to the month-plus long trains that many of the other prereqs have. Making AWU more accessible barely affects them compared to the long trains that the rest of the skills have.
What making AWU more accessible does do is it makes it easier for new chars and players to get tight fittings in.
Edit :: Using default attributes and no implants:
Tactical Weapon Reconfig: Reduced from 47 days to 38 days. Doomsday Operation: Reduced from 64 days to 55 days. Marauders: Reduced from 65 days to 56 days.
Do note that those are the base skills, just for those particular skills. To actually sit in a Marauder, removing WU V as a pre-req for AWU reduces the train for, say, a Kronos with minimum possible skills from 115 days to 106 days.
To simply sit in a Moros, removing the WU V requirement reduces the minimum possible train from 106 days to 97 days.
To simply sit in an Erebus, you don't even need to train Doomsday Operation, making the whole thing largely moot.
To actually have decent skills to use any of the above, you're looking at trains closing in on six months, at a minimum, and with the capitals, you're looking at a year or longer.
Nine days isn't going to matter in the long-run for those intentions, but can be huge when trying to get a new player or character into a tight fit to be able to be more effective in their group. |
James Zimmer
Oasis Freeport Wormhole Citadel
45
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Posted - 2016.05.30 15:01:22 -
[64] - Quote
No complaints here. Getting to WU V sucked, especially when I needed PG more than CPU and I'd be happy to see going to WU V be more of a choice. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2566
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Posted - 2016.05.30 15:42:59 -
[65] - Quote
Maunreyzi wrote:Why not rename them into Weapon Power Grid Upgrades and Weapon CPU Upgrades?
Fozzie, I fully support your proposal and think the above is a good suggestion.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Uncle Dunk
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.05.30 17:00:34 -
[66] - Quote
Maybe do the same for spaceship command. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3277
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Posted - 2016.05.30 17:14:07 -
[67] - Quote
Good change.
Not fussed about the naming or primary/secondary attributes.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2890
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Posted - 2016.05.30 19:49:51 -
[68] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote:
Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?
Except they are not only useful for those listed ship. Even frigates make good use of AWU because of the grid fitting reduction for weapon.
This part, "Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level." is important for all ship class. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
909
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Posted - 2016.05.30 21:37:12 -
[69] - Quote
Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p
Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2714
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Posted - 2016.05.31 03:30:40 -
[70] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote:Lord Valian wrote:BoomBoss wrote:Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.
The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.
Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it. Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion. Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?
.... it's also used for oh idk... fitting anything from rookie ship and up?
Citadel worm hole tax
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2891
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Posted - 2016.05.31 04:20:51 -
[71] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
.... it's also used for oh idk... fitting anything from rookie ship and up?
People have had them trained for so long they don't remember how ****** the fitting experience can be when you don't have them. |
Pinkylein
Rolling Static Sleeping Dragons
15
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Posted - 2016.05.31 07:12:07 -
[72] - Quote
Well i would not see even a problem in completely seperating them, although the names indicates that WU is a train before AWU.
But if you change it the way you propose it, i would like to see the change that the resulting ships out of AWU V or at least those skills will still need the requirement to have WU to V, which would not change the training time you need to sit in a marauder for example. |
Darkblad
539
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Posted - 2016.05.31 09:08:31 -
[73] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p 118.5 hits today and its name is ...?
I for one stick with what ccp is using internally. Earl for the one that gets deployed today and Fiona for the June update.
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1231
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Posted - 2016.05.31 11:05:11 -
[74] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Swiftstrike1 wrote:Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p 118.5 hits today and its name is ...? I for one stick with what ccp is using internally. Earl for the one that gets deployed today and Fiona for the June update.
It's supposed to be a secret, duh.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5835
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Posted - 2016.05.31 11:13:12 -
[75] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote:Lord Valian wrote:BoomBoss wrote:Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.
The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.
Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it. Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion. Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?
If that were the primary purpose of AWU 5 I'd agree with your post.
However AWU is essential for fitting tech 2 equipment to ships, by virtue of its role increasing your available fitting (by decreasing the amount your weapons consume).
Rookies who don't yet have CPU Management 5 and Powergrid Management 5 actually gain more from AWU than people like me do.
This is a game balance change that increases the relative power of new players and new characters at the expense of veteran characters. I can get behind that.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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BoomBoss
Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation
25
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Posted - 2016.05.31 13:54:15 -
[76] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:BoomBoss wrote:Lord Valian wrote:BoomBoss wrote:Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.
The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.
Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it. Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion. Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig? If that were the primary purpose of AWU 5 I'd agree with your post. However AWU is essential for fitting tech 2 equipment to ships, by virtue of its role increasing your available fitting (by decreasing the amount your weapons consume). Rookies who don't yet have CPU Management 5 and Powergrid Management 5 actually gain more from AWU than people like me do. This is a game balance change that increases the relative power of new players and new characters at the expense of veteran characters. I can get behind that.
Ah yeah, did not realise it is for fitting purposes as well. If this helps the newbro's with some fitting issues then yes, I too think this change is good. I know far too well how fitting ships can be a hassle when you are missing that few CPU or PG points. |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1500
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Posted - 2016.05.31 14:09:27 -
[77] - Quote
I am fine with this. As long as you're looking at those skills, changing the names to more accurately reflect what they do would be great. For example, Weapon CPU Efficiency and Weapon Power Efficiency or Upgrades.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Cenwarde
Mos Eisley Miners Perfect Dark
7
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Posted - 2016.05.31 20:16:23 -
[78] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away.
Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1232
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Posted - 2016.05.31 21:21:48 -
[79] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:I am fine with this. As long as you're looking at those skills, changing the names to more accurately reflect what they do would be great. For example, Weapon CPU Efficiency and Weapon Power Efficiency or Upgrades.
I can get behind it too when I see another 256.000 skillpoints I can put into the ludacris fighter skillbook screwover.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Jenna Sol
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2016.05.31 22:19:50 -
[80] - Quote
I support this change... I think it makes sense.
Could maybe also change requirements so that Mining Drone II can be used at Mining Drone Operator LVL 4 instead of LVL5.
It's a bit strange that you have to max the skill that affects mining drone yield to get access to T2 mining drones. |
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Just let it happen
434
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Posted - 2016.06.01 01:32:14 -
[81] - Quote
Eternity Mistseeker wrote:Weapons Upgrades 5 was always a pain as you really did not care, you just wanted the weapons power grid reductions to make your fit.
Weapons Upgrades should have prerequisites Gunnery 4 and CPU Management 4, Advanced Weapons Upgrades should have prerequisites Gunnery 4 and Power Grid Management 4.
Weapons Upgrades should be increased from a 2x (because i have an evil side and it makes HACs a bit more effort), and Advanced Weapons Upgrades kept at 6x.
Oh and rename as well. That's stupid. Why don't we make Missile Launcher Operation IV a prerequisite for Hull Upgrades and Shield Managment? Force you to train a skill unrelated to your end goal in order to train a skill you need for something else. For anyone trying to do a missile focus that's what that would force.
Cenwarde wrote:Suitonia wrote:Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away. Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall. Alright. Then change Motion Prediction to require Gunnery V. Force your Newbros to train a Gunnery to V adding over half a week before they can even start shooting other people. |
Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Apocalypse Now.
263
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Posted - 2016.06.01 01:55:08 -
[82] - Quote
I call for a skill tier-e-cide. Give to us what you have done to ships and modules but for skills.
Update them to fit the modern EVE. Make them more clear, and streamlined. Better grouping of skills. Updating the multipliers and the SP requirements. Move requirements for ships and modules to level 1 or level 4 based on t1 and t2 modules/ships. With level V of a skill being the cherry on top. Don't have any skill require another skill at V.
This isn't to make the game any easier or dumb proof... It would be to make the game easier to get into, but the players would still have one hell of a learning curb to master the mechanics.
edit: just thought, maybe it was possible. make level V support skills required for the level V of specialized skills. This would say let a person get buy with small blaster specialization at level IV with the support skills at IV, but they would need to max out the support skills before they got SBS to V.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Suitonia
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
691
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Posted - 2016.06.01 02:52:41 -
[83] - Quote
Cenwarde wrote:Suitonia wrote:Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away. Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall.
4.5 days is fairly important when you're new to the game and have so many other things you could be training instead. GMP is such an important skill it is a huge difference in having it or not.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
884
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Posted - 2016.06.01 15:58:23 -
[84] - Quote
Make it so, number one
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Tengu Grib
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
1517
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Posted - 2016.06.01 19:24:19 -
[85] - Quote
This would help out our Newbros greatly. AWU is critical for fitting ships properly and is a prohibitively long train for new players.
This gets my +1.
Rabble Rabble Rabble
Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
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Drammie Askold
Saints Of Havoc I N G L O R I O U S
38
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Posted - 2016.06.01 22:03:03 -
[86] - Quote
A good idea, pleae implement it soon.
What New Eden needed was Wise Immortal Philosopher Kings. What New Eden got was Sociopathic Immortal poo-flinging monkeys . . . vOv
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
772
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Posted - 2016.06.01 22:52:04 -
[87] - Quote
I don't get it. Beginning players will want to train AWU 5 sometime within the first 6 months anyway, as it makes quite a difference. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2904
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Posted - 2016.06.02 14:09:51 -
[88] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:I don't get it. Beginning players will want to train AWU 5 sometime within the first 6 months anyway, as it makes quite a difference.
You will want it for sure but getting AWU to IV before you get WU to V is a better progress route. |
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard The Bloc
735
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Posted - 2016.06.03 06:45:50 -
[89] - Quote
Good decision. Fitting skills is one of those things I often take for granted. Would not even be against lowering the bar on some T2 ships as well. However, do firmly believe specializations should still be encouraged. (also - Missile skill revamp when?? current tree makes no sense compared to gunnery - combine Heavy / Heavy Assaults & Rockets / Lights etc)
One thing I would really appreciate though? Especially to help new players? - The ability to mass fit ships in a screen similar to the current industry one. Show me all the modules I have - give me an option to choose how many ships to fit and then tell me how many ships / modules I am missing (like you would with minerals). This would make fitting up a few hundred merlins for new guys a bit easier.
Otherwise I just do not have the time to haul everything there and literally hurt my wrist clicking / renaming the same ship 100 times for ships I am not even personally using. The goal should be to try and get out of station - fitting mass quantities of ships at once would make this easier. |
Hawke Frost
180
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Posted - 2016.06.04 00:16:43 -
[90] - Quote
I'm ok with it, it's in line with similar skill req changes we've had over time and it's not game breaking or "dumbing things down". It's simply acknowledging that for some ships or factions the PG gain is far more important than the cpu gain and as such it evens the playing field for newer players. |
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