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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
269
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Posted - 2016.06.22 05:38:51 -
[271] - Quote
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:Haha, screw your color accuracy. -CCP as they continue to push ********, unthought out, unusable overlay solutions. Browsers are in a pretty sad state these days. So much feature creep, too little usefulness.
That's why I'm using pale moon and vivaldi. But that doesn't really fix the problems with CREST not working properly nor issues for people with one monitor.
On-top functionality for a normal browser might actually be a lot better solution than any kind of weird overlay browser as they all look like malware peddling sites to be honest. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
97
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Posted - 2016.06.22 06:37:35 -
[272] - Quote
1. You need the tools you can access through the IGB, so removing it you remove some functionality from EVE!
2. Why not simply make the browser selectable by the the user but keep the window management etc. in EVE. Add some skins for the popular browser and everyone can set up his favorite browser to work as the IGB.
Overlays may work or not but they add another layer to handle for new players. CCP should work on INTEGRATING other tools INTO EVE and not add layer upon layer on top of EVE.
Why not make a universal way to access things like dotlan or EFT from within EVE? Maybe through the browser, which one it the choice of the player, and a link? Add some requirements for the design to it so that EFT looks like it's part of EVE.
Take a look at this list of tools more or less needed for EVE:
EFT
Pirats little helper/Tripwire
dotlan
skillplaner
TS3 / mumble
and now some overlay
insert x tools that I missed 
You want more immersion into the game and add 3rd party tools to it?????? Start integrating things not cutting things out.
There are no reasons why you have to use external tools to access things like dotlan or EFT. I'm sure the developer would be happy if they could integrate at least a link in EVE so you can acess dotlan as quickly as the ingame map. Or you choose EFT over the fitting screen. That would ADD functionality to EVE and not cut something out.
I can understand the reason for removing the IGB but search for a adequate replacement and Crest does not work because it offers no way to view the datas. |
Blackstorms
Gygax-Arneson Imaginations
0
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Posted - 2016.06.22 09:39:58 -
[273] - Quote
As a player I'm actually pretty bummed that the IGB is being removed. It's a great tool and most importantly, it's fast and convenient, which allows a more immersive and enjoyable experience while playing the game. Perhaps one of the overlays can be a suitable replacement but honestly alt-tabbing and even a second monitor are inferior to using the IGB. There are times and places where you have to be constantly aware of what's going on around you and being able to pull up the IGB while keeping an eye on local or that gate can mean the difference between winning and dying. Moreover, the browser and the Eve related websites become part of the game.
The IGB was never presented as or operated as a fully functional modern browser. I think that it's great at its role and if people can understand and accept that it's intended for a limited range of use related to game play, then there will be no complaining about missing features. I remember when the IGB was released and people complained that it didn't support Flash. So while I have never watched a YouTube video on the IGB, I have over the course of my career used it to:
a) Look up game information and ship fittings when I was a noob at E-Uni
b) Look up the wormhole system I was in and w-space info in general when I blundered in there as a noob by accident
c) Used it in null sec to pull up maps so I could navigate the jump bridges and get around
d) Used it in null during long tower shoots to keep my sanity
e) Used it in pvp and gate camps to pass along target k-boards, k-mails in general, evewho info, amusing gifs, and more
f) Look up market information when I was either shopping or selling something
g) Went to the Eve Online store and bought merchandise ;)
The list probably goes on, but nope, I never watched one YouTube video. I have no complaints about that either. The bottom line is that IGB is fast and efficient in a pvp environment; alt-tabbing will eventually kill you and a second monitor still requires you to take your eyes off of the screen. In other areas of the game it is still incredibly convenient and allowing you to access information from inside the client allows a longer and more consistent Eve experience if not a more immersive one.
I really think you should re-examine the position that the IGB is an optional piece of the UI that can be simply discarded "to make Eve more awesome". You know what's awesome in Eve? The ability to open up a browser inside the game and use it as you're playing. No, really. It's actually an awesome thing. I say this with complete seriousness -- you guys could've charged for having access to the IGB as a addon to the game client and people, myself included would've happily handed over money for it. If you guys said that you're dropping the free IGB but now there will be a reasonably priced and supported paid version instead, there are many Eve players who would go for it. Look at the ridiculously priced stuff in this game that people spend their money on; it's not hard to imagine that people would buy something they found useful and/or aided their gameplay. I think you should look at the IGB as an asset and not a liability. |
Astevon
Federation Interstellar Resources
Silent Infinity
2
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Posted - 2016.06.22 09:52:47 -
[274] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
"Your post sucks."
VS
"Any chance you could elaborate on how this change affects you? This could be useful to us. :)"
Previous Main: Astecus | Creator of the Anti-ganking channel, Anti-ganking.net and AstralServices.net
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2016.06.22 10:06:54 -
[275] - Quote
purebegoid wrote:In the dev blog it says: Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so. The only reason that we are not removing the IGB with the release tomorrow is to give all those developers who have tools created that utilize it time to move their projects over to an external browser. Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so. What again? There is no mentioning of not using the in game browser in the dev blog up until that point. To me that reads like the initial draft of the blog had some mentioning of why not to use the in game browser but has since been removed in later drafts before posting. This whole thing stinks of a cover up. What are you not telling us CCP? Why are you censoring your dev blogs? Why are you FORCING us to out of game browsers to look at fleet porn? Now we have to remember to clear cache and cookies god damn it.
HAVE NO FEAR Private Browsing is here!
Corporal punishment, major damage and general mayhem may also be present.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPz-q_gT5A ) |
Drabbin Mishi
Excognative Ignorance
Short Bus Syndicate
14
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Posted - 2016.06.22 12:13:09 -
[276] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Drabbin Mishi wrote:Sorry if this has been asked, but how do I cause EVE to send my links to the Overwolf client (which is working great for TS3), instead of my desktop Firefox? Short answer? You don't. You might try dragging them into the notepad if your new browser can pick them up from that.. I just downloaded that thing. I'm not sure I trust those people, though. They look like your typical deluge with clicktraps folks.
I thought that I had had this working in the past.
But I guess that whatever the EVE client just did to prevent the IGB and force an external one, is also making it bypass the Overwolf browser. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6041
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 13:06:07 -
[277] - Quote
Something which I've had pointed out to me, which may be of use for mac users:
http://heliumfloats.com/
Floating browser window, with customizable translucency, and it doesn't intercept clicks through it (when translucent)
I'm not a mac user, but it may be of interest to people.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1511
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Posted - 2016.06.22 13:35:31 -
[278] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Like Meatloaf said, "Two outta three ain't bad." Wayttaminnit...Meatloaf SUCKS!
Shut your mouth. Everyone loves Meatloaf.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Cherubael DemonPrince
Regicide and Sororitas
0
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Posted - 2016.06.22 13:39:00 -
[279] - Quote
This what happens when u take more PMs and less Programmers... |
Tass Caffington
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
7
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Posted - 2016.06.22 15:02:45 -
[280] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Something which I've had pointed out to me, which may be of use for mac users: http://heliumfloats.com/
Floating browser window, with customizable translucency, and it doesn't intercept clicks through it (when translucent) I'm not a mac user, but it may be of interest to people.
Tested it. It minimises the eve client when eve runs in fullscreen.
Thus, it's better to use the default browser. Helium is no alternative
when running eve at fullscreen.
but thanks for the suggestion!
o7
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
"We're not happy until you're content!"
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Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2016.06.22 16:30:39 -
[281] - Quote
Has anyone found an overlay that doesn't have serious drawbacks compared to the gimpy but still enormously useful IGB ?
If this doesn't exist, then what's wrong with just keeping the IGB for those of us who find it quite useful on a daily basis?
You could hide it from the NeoCom for new & existing players if you think the IGB is some kind of embarrassment, and put a check box to use the IGB in the Options screen under "Old Unsupported Features".
So if people decide themselves to turn it on and use it, they know what they see is what they get and presumably won't send any (or send much fewer) support requests regarding it.
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Farmer Johnson's Daughter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.06.22 16:52:54 -
[282] - Quote
Oliver Ward wrote:Farmer Johnson's Daughter wrote:
Enjoy your time and keep pissing off devs, then wonder why your game has such crap 3rd party dev support.
EVE has some of the best third-party dev support in the entire gaming industry. Sure, there aren't modders like Elder Scrolls and similar games have, but that's because EVE is an MMO. The type and quality of software that EVE has available for it is absolutely top-notch compared to what exists for pretty much every other game.
HAHA ...no. It's actually the opposite. Take one look at the db schema and most devs have the same thought id imagine: "Is this a joke? An April fools day prank. It cant actually be structured like this can it?"
As I said before I shouldn't need to query about 3-7 different tables in a db just to find out what something is made of. Honestly it looks like to me that the db was started back in the day when someone really had no idea on how to do it properly, and stuck with the legacy code/schema, the new devs are doing the best they can.
As a dev myself I understand what it's like to inherit a crap db, api etc.
If you want gigantic 3rd party support make it easier for devs to work with the data. That's my .02 |
bucegi
Imperial Dreams
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 18:12:43 -
[283] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
Yo FoxFour, you don't respect the paying customers do you? Anyone can see that reading between your lines........
Anyway, glad to see how many players use the IGB. Could be something wrong with CCP metrics? :) |
Tass Caffington
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
8
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Posted - 2016.06.22 18:45:01 -
[284] - Quote
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?
hmmmmm.....
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
"We're not happy until you're content!"
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6041
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Posted - 2016.06.22 19:31:26 -
[285] - Quote
Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Obil Que
Star Explorers
Reckoning Star Alliance
406
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Posted - 2016.06.22 20:08:31 -
[286] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6536713#post6536713
Certainly headed that way
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MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
5
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Posted - 2016.06.23 02:53:45 -
[287] - Quote
I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.
Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?
- Report when a character logs in to the game client
- Return the name and type of ship being flown
- Report if a character is docked or not
Without the above we lose the ability to:
- Track online vs offline pilots.
- Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details.
- Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations.
- And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.
The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.
Pretty please? |
Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
8
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Posted - 2016.06.23 05:08:53 -
[288] - Quote
[quote=Leo Apocrypha
I want to start off by saying, this post concerns me. Not only does it make you the person that says "no, pick the nuts out yourself." (which doesn't really solve the problem) I've never seen such a hostile response from a dev to someone just for posting their opinion. Especially when theres so many posts of people completely over-dramatizing the effect this will have on their gameplay experience. [/quote]
I agree the post may be perceived as a little hostile, but CCP devs are just people after all. But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Poor CCP devs take tons of **** from us passionate players (including myself on more than one occasion). Be thankful you have access to them via the forums and other media. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
100
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Posted - 2016.06.23 06:38:55 -
[289] - Quote
Why not take a total different approach? Keeping up the browser is too much work for CCP. Okay! Why does the IGB have to adapt? Websites are changing. Okay, but do you need to access such websites??????
The IGB is for browsing sites connected to eve. So why not just whitelisting pages that use the EVE API + some wikis and put restriction on them that the IGB can handle them?
I don't need youtube videos in the IGB or news sides.
Don't change the IGB change the websites and the sites and whitelist what the IGB can handle instead of trying to keep up with web development. |
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 08:32:11 -
[290] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
Except that tons of people are reporting issues with that part of CREST (for me it works once in a blue moon). As long as CREST is unreliable as it seems to be right now the tool is dead.
And all that still doesn't solve the issues of, crazy but we still love them, fullscreen users. |
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Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2016.06.23 10:24:50 -
[291] - Quote
Hi o/
I just wondered what will happen to bookmarks currently saved in the IGB? Will they be removed/not accessible when it finally ceases to be?
Should I be moving them to a in game note, or out of game browser bookmarks (I use Firefox) for future use etc...
Thanks in advance for any clarity on this matter. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6045
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Posted - 2016.06.23 12:02:49 -
[292] - Quote
MicroNova wrote:I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.
Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?
- Report when a character logs in to the game client
- Return the name and type of ship being flown
- Report if a character is docked or not
Without the above we lose the ability to:
- Track online vs offline pilots.
- Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details.
- Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations.
- And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.
The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.
Pretty please?
The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)
With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)
The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2016.06.23 14:14:51 -
[293] - Quote
Maybe an over simplistic question:
I use the IGB to register my folks to our website via AuthOrange. What would be the typical work around to this?
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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
284
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Posted - 2016.06.23 14:43:11 -
[294] - Quote
Tracking your characterGÇÖs location
I think this function would be a handy tool for all Capsuleer's but for Bounty Hunter's especially.
After learning a Locator Skill each Capsuleer could add an additional five other Capsuleer's to their Locator Service. The TI skill would only allow up to 25 Capsuleer's to be tracked at level five. The total tracking distance would be ten jumps at level five.
If a Tracker is moving through systems and has other pilots in their Locator Service the pilot would appear on the Locator Service Screen. Once the Tracker moves out of the range of the pilot the pilots location disappears from the screen until the Tracker moves into range again.
With the TII skill the distance of the service is increased by 2 systems for a total range of 10 systems plus the original 10 TI systems giving the service a total of 20 jumps to track a person with. At level five for the TII skill and additional five pilots are able to be added for a total of 30 pilots that can be tracked at any one time.
Although the system is brilliant and genius to say the least on my part but there is a catch. When ever a pilot in the service comes into tracking range of the Locator Service a bill is issued to the Pilot for 100,000 ISK per half hour per name that the Tracker comes into contact with a name on their list. So if there are two pilots on the Tracker's list it would cost the Tracker 200,000 ISK for having the Service locate the names on the list and then 400,000 ISK for an hour and so forth.
Another drawback is that after five minutes of coming into contact with a name on the Tracker's list the contact is notified that they are being tracked by someone. The tracked could then pay a fee of 100,000 ISK to find out who is tracking them.
The Locator Service could be a way to replace the Locator Agents that have become obsolete given the fact that a star gate registers who comes into and out of system that is kept in a local database that is accessible to all except for those who pay to keep their names out of the main stream.
Third party services are great but need to be tied into an icon on the main GUI. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2016.06.23 15:46:03 -
[295] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:Tracking your characterGÇÖs location.
But isn't that planned to go away with the player built intelligence station? Where we would charge our own rates to use a locator agent? |
Belagra SiQ
Gulfonodi Gerstensaft GmbH
Worlds United Fedo Force
0
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Posted - 2016.06.23 18:11:22 -
[296] - Quote
With the IGB it was so easy to track my location for my own local tools:
0. Open port 8080
1. Let IGB execute CCPEVE.requestTrust("http://localhost:8080/")
Let IGB execute "function delay() { jQuery.get("/update"); setTimeout(function() { delay(); }, 30000); }; delay();"
2. Server parses HTML headers from GET Request to /update
3. Profit
How is that suppose to work with the CREST stuff?
Anyone got location tracking working with a local application?
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MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
14
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Posted - 2016.06.24 03:35:28 -
[297] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)
Actually it does, by default you can't be logged into the IGB unless you are logged into the game, which is not your point, but there is currently a way to tell who is on or offline with the IGB. I can see niche use cases for needing to worry about spoofing, but that's a minor concern. What's important is seeing who's there and who isn't.
Steve Ronuken wrote:
With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)
That's certainly a workaround, but wouldn't it be simpler to just provide the data directly? Why add an additional layer of requiring them to be in a fleet? And did this get implemented? Best I can tell it was in progress but it was superseded by something more important.
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.
Delightful. |
Telistra
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2016.06.24 04:27:18 -
[298] - Quote
Remove a possible security issue that could cost money to maintain.
Remove old code that will cost money to maintain
Move to a system that players can use with 3rd parties that will not cost money for CCP to maintain outside of CREST.
Money is awesome.
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CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
2124
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Posted - 2016.06.24 13:48:44 -
[299] - Quote
Zar Myx wrote:But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost.
Exactly this.
Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.
However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them.
Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Cade Windstalker
451
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Posted - 2016.06.24 14:37:04 -
[300] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Zar Myx wrote:But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Exactly this. Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about. However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them. Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
Heck, I think you can apply a broader version of this idea to any change thread CCP makes. Well considered feedback, pointing out potential edge cases, and anything backed up by math or hard evidence will always trump "I don't like this, I think it's bad, WTF CCP!!??!?!" |
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