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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 30 post(s)
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 76	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:33:19 - [151] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: The IGB isn't "content." Its a feature, which still falls under his argument.
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 76	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:34:15 - [152] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Lt Shard wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: That isn't really a simple task unfortunately. Doesn't mean you cant try. True, but it is a matter of prioritization. So many things we want to do and a limited number of devs. Lt Shard wrote: Funding VR only pay2win niche games is not the way to make cash, making a good game what you have already established for years better is the way to go. If you keep pulling features like this you are only going to make it awful for older players too, and keep in mind your new player retention is ****.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:41:16 - [153] - Quote Kalpel wrote: So CCP puts the work load on the customers to find a "reliable" overlay Exactly my concern. I can understand why they're removing IGB, but make a proper workaround. Yes, you - CCP. Dont put this burden on our shoulders.
Alan Greenspud State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:45:05 - [154] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there. This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose.
Marsha Mallow 2860	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:48:19 - [155] - Quote Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. The IGB has been slated for removal for years. At least with a staggered announcement like this people have time to adapt, whether that be switching to an overlay, changing their preferred ingame tools (or redeveloping them via Crest) or getting set up with an additional monitor. If it's not stable and will require excessive resources to maintain best can it asap before users start having serious problems. It's always been a bit flimsy anyway without flash. Tbf, I've just bought a 4k monitor (\o/) so windowed mode will be fine and for the first time now have 2 monitors, so maybe I'm in a reasonably good position to deal with this. But ever since concerns were raised about the IGB I've been trying to cut down using it, and once you get used to pretending it's not there you find alternate habits. Either way, thanks for the info about overlays, will test Overwolf and Evolve and see if it's better than windowed. Another cheaper option for those who can't afford a second monitor but prefer to have a browser open continuously might be to set up a small tablet on a stand, or if your phone is big enough just use that. Those reliant on ingame browser tools could do with poking the developers of those direct to see what their plans are, or have them start a centralized discussion so people can monitor it. They can't have been unaware this change was due so might have new stuff in the pipeline via crest. Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 79	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:50:12 - [156] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
Made NChina Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 0	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:51:32 - [157] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour. .............. You guy don't even know how much i hate you !! How many website will i have to be rebuild because of you !! Lots of tools had been made arround that IGB, we're probably not the only ones. Your talking about CREST and a lot of people think it will be fine. BUT NO !! We'll have to rebuild our website arround that thing.... Its a game, we don't want to spend time rebuilding tools that are already working great ! The Browser is fine like it is at the moment. Why don't u let player use old browser or redirection has a option !! ...............

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4375	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:53:22 - [158] - Quote Alan Greenspud wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there. This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose. I'm not sure you understand who you're talking to. I really don't want to be rude so instead of trying to tell you how much I care I will suggest you go talk to any active third-party developer and ask them what they think of me. I know a few are a little annoyed with me and a few of the things I have done but I don't doubt they will all agree I care a HUGE amount about them and the work they do. Hell even right now a few of them are going to be upset they only have three months to do the work... but they still know how much I care. So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage. That is just my comment in response to you thinking I don't care... for the sake of not being a complete ******* I am going to not respond to how you think I treat third-party devs. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

SyntaxPD PowerDucks PowerDucks Alliance 33	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:57:33 - [159] - Quote Shame on you, CCP, for not being able to keep features. Shame on you, CCP, for not being able to keep online even with latest updates? Do you still claim, that your updates are successful ? Look at Apocrypha age, learn something from your predecesors finally!
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 80	Posted - 2016.06.20 22:58:48 - [160] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage. I too, remember Incarna, and leaked Hilmar letters.

Made NChina Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions 1	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:00:02 - [161] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Alan Greenspud wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there. This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose. I'm not sure you understand who you're talking to. I really don't want to be rude so instead of trying to tell you how much I care I will suggest you go talk to any active third-party developer and ask them what they think of me. I know a few are a little annoyed with me and a few of the things I have done but I don't doubt they will all agree I care a HUGE amount about them and the work they do. Hell even right now a few of them are going to be upset they only have three months to do the work... but they still know how much I care. So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage. That is just my comment in response to you thinking I don't care... for the sake of not being a complete ******* I am going to not respond to how you think I treat third-party devs. ........ Useless work because of an useless change..... That is what third party dev are thinking.... three months to do the work ... Three Months for remaking what is already working at the moment !! That is what we call, losing time for nothing... ........
SilentG Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact 6	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:02:22 - [162] - Quote hmmmm ok im one of the vets in this game, and i have been plaing since 2004. The IGB is one of the things that have been helping me since my start, and i really feel sorry for its burial. Im playing multiple tons on a laptop, ithout a boot, and this game is starting to bug me off. Whenever you change the luncher we need to add all our overwiev and stuff once more, you never seem to take care of your old players that hve used 10 years or more on getting a decent setu. IGB: why remove it? Seems to me that EVE is going the way that all MMO are going. You need a serious setup to do play the game, probably a nice i7 core with 2 screens or more. I have multiple chars from 2004, and have been doing great on a laptop, woth i3 and 4gb of normal shared ram, and i guess that have been the base of this game for 12 years. No million setup computers, and you coudnt buy your way to rich and famous. We got skillinjectors, did we complain? yes some We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also... Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh.. BAH
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:05:50 - [163] - Quote Made NChina wrote: Useless work because of an useless change..... That is what third party dev are thinking.... three months to do the work ... Three Months for remaking what is already working at the moment !! Enablers are the people who make the logistics for these large-scale things actually work. They are people who run mad spreadsheets to organize production lines for war efforts, they are people who manage roles and membership of big corporations and alliances, they build tools to do different tasks. And we kind of have a history of treating these people likeGÇª****. We put these people through a lot of painful, unnecessary work. (c) CCP Seagull But please, dont come down too hard on SoxFour, he's a good one.
Airi Cho Dark-Rising 153	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:12:02 - [164] - Quote Lt Shard wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
Nick Bete The Scope Gallente Federation 455	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:14:56 - [165] - Quote Airi Cho wrote: 2nd monitor ;) Sure. You buying me one and a larger space for my setup so I can place one? It's funny how cold and cavalier some people can be about the situation of others. But you keep right on cheering for another removal of in-game functionality and replacement with a half-assed hack.
Turtle Udan Dropbears Anonymous Friendly Probes 3	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:15:46 - [166] - Quote SilentG wrote: hmmmm We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also... Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh.. 1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device. 2) This is not how this works. Microsoft, Google, and Opera don't care about the IGB, and they CERTAINLY won't pay CCP for the massive effort required to integrate their browsers into the game.
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 81	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:16:07 - [167] - Quote Airi Cho wrote: Lt Shard wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? Just because you don't use doesn't mean others don't.
Cervix Thumper School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 64	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:16:27 - [168] - Quote what was that middle part?
Marsha Mallow 2860	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:22:14 - [169] - Quote Lt Shard wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic. The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you. ps. You're not good at this game Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 81	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:31:50 - [170] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Lt Shard wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic. The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you. ps. You're not good at this game You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example. Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ***** crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I *** LOVE it. But when I see ** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring. ps gag is ironic and post with your main

Lucy Andedare The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:35:06 - [171] - Quote This is actually very upsetting. I use the IGB constantly. Hopefully this doesn't ruin the experience of EVE for me.
Bawb Zennshinagas Pelican. 5	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:37:12 - [172] - Quote RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently. I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder. CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because There aren't any for Mac users?
Marsha Mallow 2860	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:48:58 - [173] - Quote Lt Shard wrote: You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example. Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ***** crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I *** LOVE it. But when I see ** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring. ps gag is ironic and post with your main The last WH mapper tool I used was already in re-development via CREST a year ago due to the slated ingame browser removal. I'm not unaware of your complaint, or how reliant some players are on niche tools. That said, there are increasing numbers of CREST based tools. This isn't feedback btw, or remotely constructive. If they leave a broken IGB in place to appease people with bespoke tools it puts all potential users at risk. It's possible that a compromise could be reached, or certain functionality could be integrated into the client. But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again. This is my main btw. If I am a CCP shill, they better start paying me. But tbh, if I have an issue with a change I don't hesitate to report it, just don't see any point gibbering like a 5 year old. You carry on though, whatever works for you. Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
Lt Shard Team Pizza Good at this Game 82	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:51:05 - [174] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: . But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again. i love strawmanning!
Caldranna Let's annoy'em 4	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:56:16 - [175] - Quote Turtle Udan wrote: SilentG wrote: hmmmm We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also... 1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device. Let me give you all an example when the In-Game Browser has a great impact on EVE. If you fly under NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) rule and a SPECTRE fleet comes in you want to be able to identify the red pilots as quickly as possible to avoid shooting those who are not known as hostile. Currenty the IGB allows setting standings quickly by clicking on a name of the hostile party which opens an in-game window from which the standing can be set quickly. I do not see how it could be done from another device; not to mention that this functionality does not work with the Out Of Game Browser. Unfortunately for NRDS it is just another example of user generated content which as far as I can tell is not part of in-game mechanics. The in-game mechanics does not really support NRDS in itself, so removal of IGB and the extended functionality it provides might have a negative impact on this play style. I really hope at this point that you are not going to draw parallels that NRDS is a "substantial margin" of EVE as most of it is NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It) anyway, just as it was said in the DEV blog that most players do not use the IGB. I also cannot understand, why do you even expect the player to buy another device of any sort to play the game? The game gives you the most entertaining experience when it has all the features included in it. Many functions that the IGB has to offer are unfortunately not included in the game itself. However, the IGB allows the player to reach outside sources which does not force them to minimize the game and as such makes it a great UI extension.
Jiradus Tazinas EVE University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:57:00 - [176] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because they're not supported on the Mac. "Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11" If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric' WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues. I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine. Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.) Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems. Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience. Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game. Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.)
Nicholas Vierra Jarlhettur's Drop 11	Posted - 2016.06.20 23:57:57 - [177] - Quote Bawb Zennshinagas wrote: RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently. I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder. CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because There aren't any for Mac users? The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools. To me Crest looks to be capable of delivering a lot, loosing the ingame browser is going to be an adjustment, but its for the best. Let it go, and hell, while you are at it #LetLetitGoGo! Come and join us in Deninard!
Bawb Zennshinagas Pelican. 7	Posted - 2016.06.21 00:02:20 - [178] - Quote Nicholas Vierra wrote: Bawb Zennshinagas wrote: RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently. I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder. CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because There aren't any for Mac users? The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools. ! I don't have an iPad and no way in hell I'm relying on my iPhone for regular information for Eve. I don't see how the october time frame has any relevance to the fact that there is absolutely no overlay options for Mac users, are you just arguing we must be at a disadvantage compared to windows players? The IGB/Overlay aspect is hugely valuable, and honestly pretty critical to a lot of activity in the game.
Nicholas Vierra Jarlhettur's Drop 11	Posted - 2016.06.21 00:04:52 - [179] - Quote Jiradus Tazinas wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because they're not supported on the Mac. "Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11" If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric' WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues. I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine. Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.) Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems. Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience. Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game. Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.) As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change. Come and join us in Deninard!
Bawb Zennshinagas Pelican. 9	Posted - 2016.06.21 00:08:28 - [180] - Quote Nicholas Vierra wrote: As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change. Some of us use it quite exhaustively, because we have to.



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