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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
1446
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:24:07 -
[1] - Quote
It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro
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CCP Alpha
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:40:15 -
[2] - Quote
o7 |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4356
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:41:12 -
[3] - Quote
o7 Good bye IGB.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Longdrinks
My Wife's Son Play Hard Pray Harder
245
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:41:28 -
[4] - Quote
ill keep the igb and his family in my prayers tonite |
Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
12
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:41:34 -
[5] - Quote
Even knowing that it was coming, it's still a hard hit to handle.
Good luck to all the third-party devs out there! |
Alphax45
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
71
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:41:36 -
[6] - Quote
But the dank memes! Did you think of the dank memes!!!?!?!? |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33937
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:42:08 -
[7] - Quote
IGB is scheduled to die on my birthday
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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HyperFlareX
EVE University Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:42:40 -
[8] - Quote
Another overlay alternative would be Evolve's overlay.
That said, I'm sad the IGB is going, seeing as we only used it for ingame stuff anyway (and GIFs. Can't forget the gifs!)
DOTLAN, our mapper, etc. Are going to be much less convenient now
The convenience of having a small window that can be quickly managed is not going to be met by a normal browser, which will run in its own window. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4356
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:45:35 -
[9] - Quote
HyperFlareX wrote:Another overlay alternative would be Evolve's overlay. That said, I'm sad the IGB is going, seeing as we only used it for ingame stuff anyway (and GIFs. Can't forget the gifs!) DOTLAN, our mapper, etc. Are going to be much less convenient now The convenience of having a small window that can be quickly managed is not going to be met by a normal browser, which will run in its own window.
Thanks for sharing Evolve. I didn't know about it.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
404
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:45:43 -
[10] - Quote
Prepare the tear bucket!
It certainly will be an adjustment as there is a lot of ease of use in working with third-party software like wormhole mappers, etc inside the EVE client vs. a second screen (if available). Will definitely be trying out how it works in practice to get used to it now. |
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Tweety Bird
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
164
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:47:29 -
[11] - Quote
Now please get rid of that archaic looking jukebox, FFS CCPlease get with the times. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1663
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:49:07 -
[12] - Quote
RIP horrible in game browser.
While you're at it... can someone please fix the godawful way of entering URLs into the dialog boxes? Really want to be able to just select a piece of text and click the URL button and it changes it to a URL... |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
14
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:49:44 -
[13] - Quote
good-bye opening fittings and contracts ingame from a simple link. hello extra effort with a) rebuilding sites that contained them and b) either finding a user friendly way around it or sifting through the cumbersome ingame interface (for contracts especially).
suggestion: keep the linking functionality somehow preserved in a way where people would copy an ingame formatted link from an external source into some kind of command box and that would open up the item people looked for, fits, contracts...
suggestion, addendum: expand the above to include shopping lists, and possibly more... |
Darkblad
804
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:54:21 -
[14] - Quote
Funk yeah!
over to
%lt;url=showinfo:42225>Capsule - Genolution 'Auroral' 197-variant Palatine Serenity Only SKIN (365 Days)%lt;/url>
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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Dominous Nolen
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
194
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Posted - 2016.06.20 16:58:56 -
[15] - Quote
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
@dominousnolen
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1663
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:00:37 -
[16] - Quote
Question: Will opening the link in a new browser kick full-screen clients into windowed mode or will it stay frameless?
I personally always run in window mode, but I know it's not the default configuration. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6039
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:00:59 -
[17] - Quote
RIP IGB. You were good in your time, but it's time to lay down your burden.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4356
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:01:37 -
[18] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc Band of Boogers
112
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:02:35 -
[19] - Quote
Please add a CREST interface for create-contract. Like the CCPEVE.createContract javascript call in the IGB
At times I'm doing 150 contracts in a row and it would be near impossible to do without some automation. Even 20 contracts can be a pain if you have a large inventory and have to ship stuff from different stations |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
15
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:03:11 -
[20] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. |
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2539
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:03:14 -
[21] - Quote
Your list is utterly incomplete. Using market tracker websites as well dotlan are far more widespread and far more important features than whatever you listed in your list. Without the IGB, I am now forced to use an out of game browser for all of that, which means constant cumbersome alt-tabbing around or use of window mode which does require tons more performance from my PC.
And if you do not endorse overlays, you better change that. You remove a vital ingame tool and have no plans or ideas to replace it properly.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Sered Woollahra
No Fixed Abode Solyaris Chtonium
32
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:03:33 -
[22] - Quote
The problem with using an external browser is that it breaks immersion, which can be really jarring. I hope the overlays mentioned can fix that, when the IGB goes.
Wouldn't it be possible to tell the Eve client which external browser to use, and then use that engine as an IGB? |
Kalbuir Skirate
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:03:53 -
[23] - Quote
We all knew this was coming, overall I am looking forward to not having to make my stuff support Chrome 3.0 ....
However I do hope that this means that the CREST team will put certain things a bit higher on their priority list than they are now. A lot of very useful features are gone with IGB.
Now I have no idea if the design goal is to bring much of that back at all as having CREST interact with the game directly to do these old actions seems very odd but i'm going to mention them anyway.
My personal wishes would be: - Starting conversations: We currently use this to easily reach out to new players). - Opening mails with pre generated text: We currently use this to answer much asked questions of new Horde members. - Creating Contracts: This feature is/was such a timesaver, a 2.0 feature to fully fill in a contract would be amazing. - Header info: The header info was very useful for analytics as a corp / alliance but I can understand that goes byebye, what is a bit of a shame though is that currently there is no way to see if someone browser is online in EVE. We've used this for some deployment features in Horde. Currently do not see a workaround as location gives last location even if offline (last time I checked).
Kal |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4358
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:06:22 -
[24] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.
We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.
WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4358
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:07:13 -
[25] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:And if you do not endorse overlays, you better change that. You remove a vital ingame tool and have no plans or ideas to replace it properly.
We are not saying you cannot use them, just that we don't support them and if they break... /shrug contact their dev not us.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
16
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:09:53 -
[26] - Quote
Sered Woollahra wrote:The problem with using an external browser is that it breaks immersion, which can be really jarring. I hope the overlays mentioned can fix that, when the IGB goes.
+1 this.
Wouldn't it be possible to tell the Eve client which external browser to use, and then use that engine as an IGB?
there's already a few examples of programs using the chromium browser, I'm sure their developers provide means to integrate the engine into 3rd party software with ease, and you wouldn't have to worry about updating that part. Facebook Games for windows is one I use on a regular basis, and I don't think FB is paying chromium anything for that. |
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division REFORD
130
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:11:38 -
[27] - Quote
That's a bullshit. Now we will have to minimize eve client to go to a browser to check information that we need during scanning, combat, running missions etc because overlays are not the same as IGB.
-1
Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established.
- Confucius
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Postman
EVE Postal Service
22
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:11:47 -
[28] - Quote
CCP once again missed the point completely. Sites as Dotlan and the old EVElopedia are used almost always ingame. First they remove the EVElopedia, then they nerf Dotlan use. Good thing I already cancelled my subscriptions because of vacation, now I have zero reason to come back after.
Here is a idea for the next big thing to remove from the game CCP: the actual client. Its probably to much work to maintain that and using CREST you don't need it anymore anyway, seeing how magical that CREST is. |
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
265
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:12:07 -
[29] - Quote
Overwolf is awful. Anyone who recommends it should be forced to run missions in EVE for their ISK.
--gos |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
149
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:12:13 -
[30] - Quote
Kalbuir Skirate wrote:We all knew this was coming, overall I am looking forward to not having to make my stuff support Chrome 3.0 ....
However I do hope that this means that the CREST team will put certain things a bit higher on their priority list than they are now. A lot of very useful features are gone with IGB.
Now I have no idea if the design goal is to bring much of that back at all as having CREST interact with the game directly to do these old actions seems very odd but i'm going to mention them anyway.
My personal wishes would be: - Starting conversations: We currently use this to easily reach out to new players). - Opening mails with pre generated text: We currently use this to answer much asked questions of new Horde members.
IIRC mail support for crest is on the way. probably needed for the eve mobile phone app anyway.
Quote: - Creating Contracts: This feature is/was such a timesaver, a 2.0 feature to fully fill in a contract would be amazing.
a better version of this might be "contract templates" similar to saved fittings. and we can already push fittings via crest. so might not be on the too far away horizon.
Quote: - Header info: The header info was very useful for analytics as a corp / alliance but I can understand that goes byebye, what is a bit of a shame though is that currently there is no way to see if someone browsing is online in EVE. We've used this for some deployment features in Horde. Currently do not see a workaround as location gives last location even if offline (last time I checked).
Some of this might be exposed via crest as FoxFour mentioned a few times.
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Aaril
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
38
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:14:14 -
[31] - Quote
I, for one, have been waiting for this day for a long time. I purposely avoid the IGB, and have for a long time. If I see a link today I copy the URL and paste in a browser.
For WH mapping I even use a separate browser, as tedious as that is.
One suggestion...could you guys implement the game automatically putting the url into the clipboard when clicked as well. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
149
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:16:46 -
[32] - Quote
Aaril wrote:I, for one, have been waiting for this day for a while. I purposely avoid the IGB, and have for a long time. If I see a link today, I copy the URL and paste in a browser.
For WH mapping I even use a separate browser, as tedious as that is.
One suggestion...could you guys implement the game automatically putting URLs into the clipboard when clicked as well.
if you just click on it it will open with your default browser anyway.
and for your mapping needs ...see crest
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2541
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:24:23 -
[33] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc. WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST. Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using...
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1505
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:26:24 -
[34] - Quote
RIP.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Alexhandr Shkarov
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
44
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:26:34 -
[35] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:o7 Good bye IGB.
One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page. Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines.
Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update).
All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4359
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:26:57 -
[36] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc. WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST. Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using...
Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
385
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:27:34 -
[37] - Quote
Please put the developer time that frees up in "Little Things", like contracts for example.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1663
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:27:50 -
[38] - Quote
I wonder if there would be a way for the EVE client to launch a client with the WS_EX_TOPMOST style so it could be kept on-top of the browser, for people who don't have dual screens.
It's fairly easy to read which path is used for ShellExecute. |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
16
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:29:33 -
[39] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc. WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST. Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
you already stated it, as you don't officially endorse any, by removing the browser altogether instead of looking into readily available alternatives, you force players relying on instant knowledge in often edgy situations, to use something that might not always work and for which you are not responsible. :) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4359
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:29:59 -
[40] - Quote
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:o7 Good bye IGB. One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page. Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines. Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update).
There is a CREST resource for creating fits. Fleet-Up uses this amazingly well. I log i to fleet-up, view the doctrines for my corp, pick the one I want to fly, click the sync to game link, switch to client, view fit in my saved fits, and buy it. So while a little longer it still works really well for that.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2616
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:30:07 -
[41] - Quote
Important is, to be able to open fittings on websites ingame ... or will this be removed? Also to be able to configure exactly which browser / params are used to open the ext. browser on link-click ingame.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Annette Nolen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
90
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:31:53 -
[42] - Quote
Quote:While the IGB has some extra functions beyond the list above, after looking at metrics of what EVE specific functions were being used these were the most used by a substantial margin. As such, they are the functions we pushed to have replicated in CREST.
RFF would really love IGB's ability to open emails with pre-filled templates/recipients ported to CREST too.
Or, I mean, the ability to flat out send mail via a fully developed CREST endpoint for evemail would be even more awesome :)
Likewise the existing IGB showContract being ported as-is to CREST covers us for now, but probably no surprise that we are collectively praying for a fully developed set of CREST endpoints for contract management to show up someday too! |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
16
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:32:15 -
[43] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:o7 Good bye IGB. One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page. Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines. Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update). There is a CREST resource for creating fits. Fleet-Up uses this amazingly well. I log i to fleet-up, view the doctrines for my corp, pick the one I want to fly, click the sync to game link, switch to client, view fit in my saved fits, and buy it. So while a little longer it still works really well for that.
saved fits...the 200 piece cap of personal fittings is starting to get insufficient, and it forces me to use external tools for no apparent valid reason, EFT ftw. havent gotten to suggest the cap removed in the forums yet, thanks for reminding me. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2542
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:32:29 -
[44] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using...
Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?[/quote] The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
0
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:33:28 -
[45] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc. WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST. Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support? Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4359
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:41:32 -
[46] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can?
An overlay is inadequate but the IGB was not? How in the world does that make sense? Pretty much every overlay out there with a browser is years ahead of the IGB.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4359
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:42:22 -
[47] - Quote
Caldranna wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole. We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc. WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST. Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support? Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years?
Leaving it as it is would be a risk and we want to ensure our users are as safe as possible.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
149
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:42:47 -
[48] - Quote
Caldranna wrote: CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support? Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years?
Just look at how often your normal browser vendors are updating the browser for security reasons. And they often change the browser in a way that to fix the integration into other applications, is not a small amount of work.
IGB: "AppleWebKit/532.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/3.0.195.27 Safari/532.0 EVE-IGB" Chrome: "AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/51.0.2704.103 Safari/537.36"
so from the looks this is a really really old version of the engine.
for me ... instead of wasting resources on maintaining yet another browser on my system, i would rather see CREST improved, because that functionality is more useful for the community at large. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4359
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:43:57 -
[49] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Important is, to be able to open fittings on websites ingame ... or will this be removed? Also to be able to configure exactly which browser / params are used to open the ext. browser on link-click ingame.
You wont be able to do open a fitting for viewing no, but you can save it to a characters saved fits.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Tyrindel Vaedrelin
The Black Hand Nerfed Alliance Go Away
0
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:44:48 -
[50] - Quote
so basically your taking away functions to force support for a new project . overlays i have seen cause a lot of issues with different games can be resource hogs and oh you don't support any of them. there a many mmos out there that don't charge a monthly fee but can maintain a browser. so i am calling this for what it is ccp wants to cut corners where it can while forcing use of a system they know wont be well received. This hurts worm people a lot and forces reliance on 3rd party apps which if use api's are just spy tools. so thanks for nothing oh wait thanks for removing a feature that works just fine for what its used with |
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l0rd carlos
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
1280
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:44:55 -
[51] - Quote
I found an old exploit for Chrome 3, but it did not work for the ingame browser. Did you patch some critical bugs in the last few years?
It was something about a lot of >>>>> symbols would make it crash.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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l0rd carlos
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
1280
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:45:51 -
[52] - Quote
Tyrindel Vaedrelin wrote:so basically your taking away functions to force support for a new project . overlays i have seen cause a lot of issues with different games can be resource hogs and oh you don't support any of them. there a many mmos out there that don't charge a monthly fee but can maintain a browser. so i am calling this for what it is ccp wants to cut corners where it can while forcing use of a system they know wont be well received. This hurts worm people a lot and forces reliance on 3rd party apps which if use api's are just spy tools. so thanks for nothing oh wait thanks for removing a feature that works just fine for what its used with
Can't you just use a regular browser and force it to be on top?
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
16
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:46:21 -
[53] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Important is, to be able to open fittings on websites ingame ... or will this be removed? Also to be able to configure exactly which browser / params are used to open the ext. browser on link-click ingame. You wont be able to do open a fitting for viewing no, but you can save it to a characters saved fits.
200 fits cap...remove it |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2545
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:47:03 -
[54] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can? An overlay is inadequate but the IGB was not? How in the world does that make sense? Pretty much every overlay out there with a browser is years ahead of the IGB. Not far enough ahead apparently to have bookmarks, for instance.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2117
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:48:04 -
[55] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can? I'm struggling to think of examples for this, other than the Steam in-game browser, and their development situation isn't really analogous to ours.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2545
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:49:18 -
[56] - Quote
Can someone tell me how to add EVE properly to Steam so that I can test that overlay? Using "Add a Non-Steam Game" with the exe file from "...\EVE\tq\eve.exe" apparently does not do the trick. I cannot load the overlay with the set up hotkey.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
150
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:49:34 -
[57] - Quote
Tyrindel Vaedrelin wrote:so basically your taking away functions to force support for a new project . overlays i have seen cause a lot of issues with different games can be resource hogs and oh you don't support any of them. there a many mmos out there that don't charge a monthly fee but can maintain a browser. so i am calling this for what it is ccp wants to cut corners where it can while forcing use of a system they know wont be well received. This hurts worm people a lot and forces reliance on 3rd party apps which if use api's are just spy tools. so thanks for nothing oh wait thanks for removing a feature that works just fine for what its used with
1. you can limit what people can access on crest as well as on the old API. not happy with their access requirements. use a different app or write your own.
2. you are already feeding a lot of information to those apps. not sure if you ever looked at the special headers sent by the ingame browser.
3. did you ever wonder why you are doing all the mapping work and the site owner gets all the informations for free? they have a close to perfect view of big parts of WH space.
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Tyrindel Vaedrelin
The Black Hand Nerfed Alliance Go Away
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:49:48 -
[58] - Quote
not safely while moving threw wormhole connections it will block sight from in game. a out of game map will get people killed needlessly
thats why every wh corps have moved away from apps like siggy to open source self hosted like pathfinder |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
150
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:52:23 -
[59] - Quote
Tyrindel Vaedrelin wrote:not safely while moving threw wormhole connections it will block sight from in game. a out of game map will get people killed needlessly
thats why every wh corps have moved away from apps like siggy to open source self hosted like pathfinder
Depending how big you make your windows. if your browse isnt full screen then you can see as much as you could see before with the IGB in foreground. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2545
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:53:09 -
[60] - Quote
Steam's browser doesn't take a toll on performance, because you can't play the game and run the browser at the same time. You can enable the browser by pressing the Web button in the Shift-Tab menu. The entire screen darkens a bit and lets you interact with all of Steam's functions and the browser at the same time. You can use the browser in games that aren't on the service (like World of Warcraft) by using the add-game function in Steam. Is that blocking of using the game while you browse still a thing with Steam?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6039
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:54:44 -
[61] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Can someone tell me how to add EVE properly to Steam so that I can test that overlay? Using "Add a Non-Steam Game" with the exe file from "...\EVE\tq\eve.exe" apparently does not do the trick. I cannot load the overlay with the set up hotkey.
If you add the (new, not the one that's going away) eve launcher as the non-steam game, the overlay will work just fine with the launched clients.
Yes, there's still UI blocking.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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HyperFlareX
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:55:40 -
[62] - Quote
yes. overwolf is the only overlay I know of that doesn't block the game simultaneously. |
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:57:02 -
[63] - Quote
Can we get some kind of in-game embeded window that would allow us to use our own default browser? Just isolate the window so no javascript leaks out...
Yes, the CCPBrowser is bad, but I use it all the time- checking market, posting d-scan, killboard, memes, and just for general browsing while warping at 1 au/s. Keeping 1 eye on local or d-scan and browsing stuff, can't really do it with alt-tabbing. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
150
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 17:58:09 -
[64] - Quote
Blade Darth wrote:Can we get some kind of in-game embeded window that would allow us to use our own default browser? Just isolate the window so no javascript leaks out...
Yes, the CCPBrowser is bad, but I use it all the time- checking market, posting d-scan, killboard, memes, and just for general browsing while warping at 1 au/s. Keeping 1 eye on local or d-scan and browsing stuff, can't really do it with alt-tabbing.
2nd monitor works wonders in that regard. then even netflix works! |
Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
16
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:59:24 -
[65] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Blade Darth wrote:Can we get some kind of in-game embeded window that would allow us to use our own default browser? Just isolate the window so no javascript leaks out...
Yes, the CCPBrowser is bad, but I use it all the time- checking market, posting d-scan, killboard, memes, and just for general browsing while warping at 1 au/s. Keeping 1 eye on local or d-scan and browsing stuff, can't really do it with alt-tabbing. 2nd monitor works wonders in that regard. then even netflix works!
right, I'm going to buy a second screen for only one thing I'd ever use it for. Not that there's already enough clutter on my desk as is. |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
1
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Posted - 2016.06.20 18:00:20 -
[66] - Quote
Firstly, you are removing a tool CCP that offers the following functionality without the necessity to "alt + tab": - access to DOTLAN maps, - access to Providence KOS checker, - access to Fleet Composition sharing sites, - access to Killboards for more intel, - access to Market Price checkers,
and I guess many more developed by the community which you CCP do not offer.
Secondly, you have already removed the clone grades. No fight gives the same adrenaline rush as before.
Thirdly, no jukebox. I have not really listened to EVE music since you removed the option which tracks I can listen to which took a nice feature out of eve. And no, I do not want to bother with out of game players for that.
Moreover, you wanted to be paid at a premium for SKINS and some apparel. Non of which a typical pvper really needs, but it is one of the things that contributes to killing what a great thing EVE was. Everything included in the subscription.
And now the camera gets stuck, EVE crashes like crazy, and you keep adding new content without taking care of previous bugs. I think you have been down that way before, have you not CCP?
Then in your Dev blog you wrote: "We are a games company and our focus is on making EVE as great a game as we can. Integrating a browser into the EVE client takes a fair amount of work to do and more importantly requires a certain level of upkeep." EVE is not a game if you remember. EVE was supposed to be a toy. By making a game out of EVE I hope you do get your player base extended, but I do not want to be part of it anymore.
I recently cancelled my subscriptions out of sort of boredom that I did not want to attribute to you directly CCP. Now you give me a reason to keep it that way. I wish you all the best CCP while secretly hoping you will focus on your player base instead of making the decissions of what is good for us players.
o7 |
l0rd carlos
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
1280
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:00:36 -
[67] - Quote
Tyrindel Vaedrelin wrote:not safely while moving threw wormhole connections it will block sight from in game. a out of game map will get people killed needlessly
thats why every wh corps have moved away from apps like siggy to open source self hosted like pathfinder
You can make it smaller, like the ingame browser, and then say it's should be on top.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
150
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:00:59 -
[68] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote:right, I'm going to buy a second screen for only one thing I'd ever use it for. Not that there's already enough clutter on my desk as is.
Trust me ... you will very quickly find more use cases for that. reading documentation on one screen while working on the other comes to mind. watching netflix and chatting on the other. so many things. you have no idea how quickly you get used to that. |
Dominous Nolen
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
194
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:07:11 -
[69] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D
Thank Bob for multiple displays.
@dominousnolen
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GoodGreyer Ayderan
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:08:36 -
[70] - Quote
Well this royally sucks.
I quite litterally using the IGB every day I play EVE. Dozens of times each play session.
As for Overwolf, all I know is that in the past (recent past) I've had to close Overwolf entirely, even without using Overwolf in Eve, because having it running in the background would make Eve graphics get all glitchy and especially mess with anti-aliasing for some reason.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2545
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Posted - 2016.06.20 18:10:31 -
[71] - Quote
So...
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game. Which is great. The Overwolf browser does not have a bookmarks functionality. Which is great. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Any other suggestions?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4360
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
GoodGreyer Ayderan wrote: Well this royally sucks.
I quite litterally using the IGB every day I play EVE. Dozens of times each play session.
As for Overwolf, all I know is that in the past (recent past) I've had to close Overwolf entirely, even without using Overwolf in Eve, because having it running in the background would make Eve graphics get all glitchy and especially mess with anti-aliasing for some reason.
Been using Overwolf myself for the past few months without an issue. Care to give it a try? I was also recently told about Evolve (https://www.evolvehq.com/welcome), so maybe give them a try?
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4360
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:11:25 -
[73] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:So...
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game. Which is great. The Overwolf browser does not have a bookmarks functionality. Which is great. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Any other suggestions?
Just heard about Evolve today: https://www.evolvehq.com/welcome
Have not tried it myself though.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
150
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:11:29 -
[74] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:So...
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game. Which is great. The Overwolf browser does not have a bookmarks functionality. Which is great. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Any other suggestions?
2nd monitor ;) |
Cleanse Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
0
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Posted - 2016.06.20 18:11:38 -
[75] - Quote
This is wierd, i've always been with CCP for any "revolutionary" changes they made over the last almost 2 years against all of the bittervet whining about their lost confort, but there.... this is a whole community part that will completly go away with this, not only those who can't afford technically or financially 2 screens (or more) but the whole thing players had together linking gif and all ...
So sad. |
gumbo innit
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:14:22 -
[76] - Quote
The IGB was one of the standout features for me when I started playing this game, as surprising as that might be. That there was a browser you could use to build websites that properly interacted with the game was amazing to me. There is a whole world of player interaction that will be going away when this is removed.
Sure it was an old and crappy version of chrome and it did not support crazy new web features and debugging the JS was a massive PITA, but it was one of few in-game tools I used regularly. I can't say the same thing about the notepad or the calculator tool. There are out of game tools that do those better, so why are they still in the game?
I understand development priorities don't afford progression of the IGB, but I also can't help but feel that we are losing something great about this game with it gone. I hope Crest will eventually catch up in terms of lost functionality. Things like active ship details, opening in-game windows with pre-filled data/options, etc.
I am lucky enough to have a crazy computer, but I know plenty of people who play this game on a laptop in fullscreen, and they are about to have a lot less funny links to click in local, and have a much harder time managing market orders, contracts, SRP payments, etc. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
151
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:16:16 -
[77] - Quote
Cleanse Sin'led wrote:This is wierd, i've always been with CCP for any "revolutionary" changes they made over the last almost 2 years against all of the bittervet whining about their lost confort, but there.... this is a whole community part that will completly go away with this, not only those who can't afford technically or financially 2 screens (or more) but the whole thing players had together linking gif and all ...
So sad.
1. this was announced years ago that the IGB will die. but of course people wait until the last moment to look for alternatives
2. thank god the gif spam might get reduced by that. |
Nicholas Vierra
Jarlhettur's Drop
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:20:20 -
[78] - Quote
Many Ingame browsers in general are not secured properly, or are simply thrown into a game as a convenience. The EVE Browser was not much better, and lacked support for a great deal of web content. The time wasted on the IGB is better put towards Crest and API.
Now, it would be cool to see an ingame window that displayed your default browser, or at least the OS Browser (MS Edge, Internet explorer, or Safari) however that may not be possible. It may lead to the same issues as CCP was dealing with before.
Crest is an evolving tool that will likely retain much of the functionality of the ingame browser, in addition to new features created by CCP and your corporate Developers. If there is a capability you would like to see, post it in one of the Features and Ideas threads on EVE Forums or your corporate forums.
As far as viewing out of game, I will note that likely over half of you own some sort of Tablet, iPad, Smartphone, Superphone, or iPhone that you probably have at or near your desk right now... Most of the tools are tied into your API, the second device may be able to address your concerns with Overlays and ALT Tabbing depending on what you need to use and how Crest and API's evolve over the next months!
Come and join us in Deninard!
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
378
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Posted - 2016.06.20 18:20:37 -
[79] - Quote
they spend a fortune making VR trinkets. yet still cant save the IGB...cause it requires work im going to be very careful how i spend my money on ccp games from now on.
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Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:21:57 -
[80] - Quote
I will miss the IGB.
I was surprised there is much maintenance at all. Figured 99% of the code would have been managed by a company supplying browser plugin/control module of some sorts.
But I do agree, you should be focusing on the core of Eve and if the IGB was causing undue maintenance time, I guess it is time to move on. |
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l0rd carlos
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
1281
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:23:22 -
[81] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:they spend a fortune making VR trinkets. yet still cant save the IGB...cause it requires work im going to be very careful how i spend my money on ccp games from now on.
learn 2 cost benefit analyse, scrub lord
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Tweety Bird
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
164
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:25:52 -
[82] - Quote
ITT: Lots of space and IRL poors. |
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:28:49 -
[83] - Quote
worst idea ever |
Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P Curatores Veritatis Alliance
36
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:35:29 -
[84] - Quote
Total nerfing of gatecamp fleets..... Why join them when porn links and gifs can no more be appreciated? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3538
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:36:07 -
[85] - Quote
will there be a way how to disable the browser earlier? given how much of a security risk it is i would like to open all ingame links in my system browser. ("x open all links in external browser option" please)
and most importantly.. will we still have a picture viewer for gifs? ;)
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc Band of Boogers
113
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:36:24 -
[86] - Quote
How about you keep IGB until CREST can provide the same features ?
One thing is that ALT-TABBING in and out of the game hurts immersion, but it's quite another thing to remove features that people rely on - like the Contracts interface
Some handwaving that it will be dealt with "in the future" is not enough. We know how that plays out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5127183#post5127183 two years ago and nothing happened |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:41:53 -
[87] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can? An overlay is inadequate but the IGB was not? How in the world does that make sense? Pretty much every overlay out there with a browser is years ahead of the IGB.
I don't think it's about being years ahead but keeping the basic functionality of what the IGB is used for and that makes a total sense. |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:48:23 -
[88] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Caldranna wrote: CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support? Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years?
Just look at how often your normal browser vendors are updating the browser for security reasons. And they often change the browser in a way that to fix the integration into other applications, is not a small amount of work. IGB: "AppleWebKit/532.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/3.0.195.27 Safari/532.0 EVE-IGB" Chrome: "AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/51.0.2704.103 Safari/537.36" so from the looks this is a really really old version of the engine. for me ... instead of wasting resources on maintaining yet another browser on my system, i would rather see CREST improved, because that functionality is more useful for the community at large.
Well, for me earning money to pay subscription is a hard work too. I hope EVE will still be there when CREST functionality offers all the features IGB had without having to alt + tab. |
Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:49:09 -
[89] - Quote
With the IGB going away, is there any chance that you, CCP, would consider placing the music library up for download (after logging in and having a functional account, etc)? Steam has a pretty nice music library system that's accessed quite easily from the overlay, and it would be nice to put all the music in there for quick access. Basically, a replacement to the old Jukebox.
I know that most of the music is available on Soundcloud, but not all of it is, nor can all of it be downloaded (without using third-party browser add-ons, that is).
If there are concerns with bandwidth for all the downloading, you can always set it up as a torrent, which would help with the bandwidth, and might make it easier to add new music as it becomes available, as well. |
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:52:52 -
[90] - Quote
@CCP FoxFour:
In the dev blog it mentions "Opening a specific contract" is available in CREST. Are there any docs on this endpoint? As i do not recall seeing this before. |
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6039
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:56:46 -
[91] - Quote
Huang Mo wrote:How about you keep IGB until CREST can provide the same features ? One thing is that ALT-TABBING in and out of the game hurts immersion, but it's quite another thing to remove features that people rely on - like the Contracts interface Some handwaving that it will be dealt with "in the future" is not enough. We know how that plays out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5127183#post5127183 two years ago and nothing happened
Funny you should say that:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=485359&find=unread
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
915
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 18:59:55 -
[92] - Quote
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:o7 Good bye IGB. One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page. Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines. Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update).
You can use CREST to push fittings up to your account on Eve. I already do that from pyfa, so yes, it's possible to take a fitting from an outside app and push it to Eve without copying and pasting.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
MyLoudVoice
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:02:35 -
[93] - Quote
Sigh. Yet another bad decission.
Does anyone there even remember why you put it in in the first place? I doubt someone said 'hey. we have too many people. let's make something completely irrelevant'.
That in-game browser is an integral part of the Eve experience. Even if you reduce its functionality. Once again something sacrificed by short sighted management that prefer to **** away money in things like Dust. A browser is just not sexy enough I suppose.
Management should start to consider that Eve is not exactly growing at a big rate. Making stuff less 'easy' and pissing off people is not really a growth strategy.
What is more enjoyable then mining while reading up on another part of Eve in a full screen setting? Whatever new solution someone chooses, it will break the emergence and be less comfortable. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
916
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:07:45 -
[94] - Quote
Brian Harrelstein wrote:worst idea ever
You obviously weren't around for Greed is Good.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
916
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:09:28 -
[95] - Quote
Pavlakakos wrote:Total nerfing of gatecamp fleets..... Why join them when porn links and gifs can no more be appreciated?
Forget gate camping. What about mining fleets? Those poor bastards will be begging CODE to come by and alleviate the boredom.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
bucegi
Imperial Dreams
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:13:10 -
[96] - Quote
Another one bites to dust, I don't trust you anymore dear dev's. After each change I log in to see what changed for the worse first then see the improvements. To me it feels like CCP is going one step forward and two steps backwards. I honestly think EvE would be better in other hands. The good/sad thing is that EvE it's like an addiction to me and many others and that's what keeps ccp going no matter how many wrong decisions they make. But for how long?
|
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:16:24 -
[97] - Quote
@CCP FoxFour
How would one use the 'open specific contract' or 'Opening the market details for a specific item type' endpoint? |
Cleanse Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:18:44 -
[98] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Cleanse Sin'led wrote:This is wierd, i've always been with CCP for any "revolutionary" changes they made over the last almost 2 years against all of the bittervet whining about their lost confort, but there.... this is a whole community part that will completly go away with this, not only those who can't afford technically or financially 2 screens (or more) but the whole thing players had together linking gif and all ...
So sad. 1. this was announced years ago that the IGB will die. but of course people wait until the last moment to look for alternatives 2. thank god the gif spam might get reduced by that.
|
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:20:18 -
[99] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Brian Harrelstein wrote:worst idea ever You obviously weren't around for Greed is Good.
Well, SKINS and aparel are there anyway. It would be great if they were reasonably accessible, but they only perform a visual function which is not as such a big deal, however, the in-game browser serves a great variety of practical functions. |
Angry Arnst
W.O.R.M-S.W.A.R.M Spartan Republic
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:20:28 -
[100] - Quote
I Don't know who calling shots at ole CCP but Your not making game better. You have taken a lot of core basics of game and throw out window. Example skill injectors wtf can I get my cpl years of money back so can buy into what want? it was a real time strategy I mean I don't like long trains either but people do them now in 2 days can be cap pilot fooking ridiculous. I also liked old Camera view, why did not make option to use like did new map etc. is beyond me. What you deem as upgrades are not seen bye all players it be nice have options. I for one have a lot skills trained long time in and now half are obsolete cause you think it betters game. So how do we get back money time spent for nothing now??? next towers gonna be gone I would hope you keep them as cheaper option or there goes a lot time spent on skills and researching fuel block bpo's and such also down the drain. Put a Damper on it if want change something every week make another game keep original eve way was minus the glitches and extorted game mechanics. now browser gone too. I predict Eve be gone under 4 years now way ruin it keep up Good work Killing game and loosing older players cause of it |
|
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4362
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:21:12 -
[101] - Quote
Blacksmoke16 wrote:@CCP FoxFour
How would one use the 'open specific contract' or 'Opening the market details for a specific item type' endpoint?
Send a post request to: https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/[character_id]/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/ Body of it should look like:
{ "type": { "href": "https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/", "id": 586 } }
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
|
|
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
48
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:23:02 -
[102] - Quote
I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc Band of Boogers
113
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:23:45 -
[103] - Quote
That's how to do it imo. As a member of the CSM, can you push for a similar focus group regarding the removal of the IGB ?
|
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4364
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:26:03 -
[104] - Quote
Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.
This food sucks.
VS
Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)
Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
|
|
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:26:36 -
[105] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Blacksmoke16 wrote:@CCP FoxFour
How would one use the 'open specific contract' or 'Opening the market details for a specific item type' endpoint? Send a post request to: https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/[character_id]/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/ Body of it should look like: { "type": { "href": "https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/", "id": 586 } }
Thanks! |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:26:46 -
[106] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Caldranna wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support? Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years? Leaving it as it is would be a risk and we want to ensure our users are as safe as possible.
Could you please elaborate on those risks? |
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc Band of Boogers
113
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:33:55 -
[107] - Quote
Have you considered going in the opposite direction and create a fully integrated browser ? With multiple windows running state of the art javascript providing integration through CREST ?
If integrated into menus, people could load web based plugins for sites like EVE Central, RF Freight, Evepraisal, DScan, etc. It would be the extension mechanism people have been asking for, yet it would be tightly controlled through what was doable through CREST
It would be awesome ! Think about it |
Kaltag the Chinook
Kaltag and Co.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:35:20 -
[108] - Quote
https://youtu.be/F_XaIuw6K6Q?t=7 |
Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:35:24 -
[109] - Quote
Caldranna wrote: Could you please elaborate on those risks?
Software dev for a mid-sized company, here (not related to CCP in the slightest, though). My guess is... with the IGB being an old version of Chrome it was open to a lot of security flaws, and trying to update and maintain it was costing more time than it was worth. As CREST implementations become more robust, they can take over for the IGB.
One of the biggest issues with something like an integrated browser is that a user might decide to file suit if they receive malware through it due to unpatched security holes, causing them to lose money, identity, etc. Even if the suit gets tossed out, it's time and money down the drain for the defendant.
In my own experience, there are a lot of features that our clients would love to have available that are simply too much effort to properly maintain. The worst come from users who don't have a clue about what it's like to develop software, make a "small" request, then get upset when it doesn't get implemented due to it being a huge problem to plan out, create, test, iterate, push, and maintain.
With something as public-facing as a browser, you have to be very security-conscious with it, as new exploits are popping up on a daily basis. Hell, they're popping up on an hourly and minute-by-minute basis. Maintaining the IGB properly would probably require a dedicated team working full-time. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2550
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:36:33 -
[110] - Quote
Take #2:
Fiddled a bit around:
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works. Evolve apparently does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it. Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page.
And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.
Any other suggestions? Or does someone care to try to explain how to get evolve or overwolf working properly (properly == retaining the functionality of the IGB)?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
|
Unelias
Interstellar Newcomers Inc. Home Front Coalition
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:41:37 -
[111] - Quote
NO!NONONONONO! |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 19:49:10 -
[112] - Quote
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the great conversation so far. Going to head home and watch the new GoT episode. I will be back later. :)
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
|
|
Brain Gehirn
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
74
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:03:32 -
[113] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Take #2:
Fiddled a bit around:
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works. Evolve apparently does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it. Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page.
And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.
Any other suggestions? Or does someone care to try to explain how to get evolve or overwolf working properly (properly == retaining the functionality of the IGB)?
My suggestion: Get over it and use your normal browser. IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away.
As a developer this is just great news. No more outdated UI's and no more headaches with outdated libraries. |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
50
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:08:23 -
[114] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
No reason to be this passive-aggesive, my feedback was frank not out of malice, but to save you time reading through it while getting my point across.
I use (amongst other things) IGB to check KOS status of neutral pilots in nullsec, to view items on the market and their trends (via 3rd party, can't name it now, I'm away from home) and to view my alliance's forums. The biggest advantage of the IGB is that it stays withing the game client, so I can use the IGB while being able to play EVE and not needing to tab out or obscure the game's interface in other ways. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
378
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:19:26 -
[115] - Quote
Angry Arnst wrote:I Don't know who calling shots at ole CCP but Your not making game better. You have taken a lot of core basics of game and throw out window. Example skill injectors wtf can I get my cpl years of money back so can buy into what want? it was a real time strategy I mean I don't like long trains either but people do them now in 2 days can be cap pilot fooking ridiculous. I also liked old Camera view, why did not make option to use like did new map etc. is beyond me. What you deem as upgrades are not seen bye all players it be nice have options. I for one have a lot skills trained long time in and now half are obsolete cause you think it betters game. So how do we get back money time spent for nothing now??? next towers gonna be gone I would hope you keep them as cheaper option or there goes a lot time spent on skills and researching fuel block bpo's and such also down the drain. Put a Damper on it if want change something every week make another game keep original eve way was minus the glitches and extorted game mechanics. now browser gone too. I predict Eve be gone under 4 years now way ruin it keep up Good work Killing game and loosing older players cause of it
lol i agree it seems like seagull still is allowing the devs to pick and choose what they want to work on. we still have cloaky camping we still have a broken bounty system we still have a broken war dec system and we still have the stargate debacle plus other issues with citadel structures soon to come.. (just wait for winter lolz)
with all that said it was obvious they went after and killed the clawless puppy.. the IGB.
|
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2550
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:36:27 -
[116] - Quote
Brain Gehirn wrote:My suggestion: Get over it and use your normal browser. IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away. I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option.
Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound.
I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
266
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:53:36 -
[117] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D
Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away.
But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:53:44 -
[118] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Brain Gehirn wrote:My suggestion: Get over it and use your normal browser. IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away. I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option. Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound. I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.
maybe it was bad that all that information was available ingame in first place. |
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 20:58:07 -
[119] - Quote
@CCP FoxFour
2 things:
href: 'https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/' - should the 0 be the typeID you want, or should it actually be 0?
Also my post request keeps returning this error when using the body format in your post. Is there a specific header i need to include?
POST https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/2047918291/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/ 415 (UNSUPPORTED MEDIA TYPE) |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:00:21 -
[120] - Quote
I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:
If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.
Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).
You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above. |
|
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2550
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:01:01 -
[121] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:maybe it was bad that all that information was available ingame in first place. because flying around hundreds of jumps or having to log in dozens of alts to check prices in various regions in order to ensure competitiveness in null sec markets and not having to overcharge people too much sounds like a great idea.
Seriously, sometimes I wonder whether some people unplug their brains when they enter certain forum sections or certain conversations.
Furthermore, my question from above still stand: Steam Overlay is garbage, Evolve does not work, Overwolf is inadequate (I just found out that the Overwolf browser does not keep .net addresses like evemaps.dotlan.net stored in the urlbar auto completion feature). Any other suggestions besides Window Mode + Firefox to compensate for CCP's incapability to maintain the IGB or how to get a properly working overlay browser that has bookmarks for starters?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Brain Gehirn
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
75
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:03:49 -
[122] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Brain Gehirn wrote:My suggestion: Get over it and use your normal browser. IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away. I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option. Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound. I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.
You can resize windows and put then in front of your game. I have been doing this for like.. a couple of years? and never ever had any issues. Unless you are REALLY lazy you can survive without the IGB. SURE, it can help a lot.. but nothing that you can't do. Also, unless you have a REALLY bad computer, windowed mode is the same as the fullscreen mode (I run windowed since 2006 tbh).
"you do not need to develop your app for the IGB" Well.. you are kinda wrong. Every EVE website needs to support the old IGB in some way, even if you don't rely on any feature that it has. Why? Css/JS issues all around if you don't use old things too. jQuery for example you need the 1.11 version to be ok.... but the actual jQuery version is 3.0. So every website that wants to be able to get some views and work ingame, needs to support old things, avoid new libs and so on...
Now go back to ratting. <3 |
Sir Constantin
70
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:03:59 -
[123] - Quote
Overwolf is good for google, twitter, facebook, imgur..
Beside that you can't do anything, dotlan, trippwire and other eve related tools wont work. So yeah, thanks for improving the game and our in-game experience. |
Current Habit
Rusty Pricks
99
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:08:46 -
[124] - Quote
Looks like the only devblog CCP are releasing lately are either the announcement of feature-removements or replacing features with useless stuff they unsuccessfully tried to rip off from WoW.
And they wonder why people stop playing .. lmao. |
Colonel Frost
Patriot Security Services New Signature
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:12:10 -
[125] - Quote
If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.
It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.
The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.
Please rethink this decision. |
Alan Greenspud
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:12:54 -
[126] - Quote
Another one bites the dust!
Took them years to build this community, and CCP can destroy it in a matter of days.
+1 CCP -10k to Tranquility player count!
|
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 21:14:24 -
[127] - Quote
Sheeana Harb wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours? No reason to be this passive-aggesive, my feedback was frank not out of malice, but to save you time reading through it while getting my point across. I use (amongst other things) IGB to check KOS status of neutral pilots in nullsec, to view items on the market and their trends (via 3rd party, can't name it now, I'm away from home) and to view my alliance's forums. The biggest advantage of the IGB is that it stays withing the game client, so I can use the IGB while being able to play EVE and not needing to tab out or obscure the game's interface in other ways.
And in what way is an overlay not acceptable? It can blend into the UI almost as well as the IGB.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:16:17 -
[128] - Quote
Axhind wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away. But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now.
Would love more details about when CREST is unreliable. The location tracking has been rock solid for me since we fixed the last few defects with it. Been using it in combination with Pathfinder (the WH mapping software) for a while now with no problem.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:17:12 -
[129] - Quote
If you look at the body of the response it should help indicate what is wrong. The ID in the URL actually doesn't matter... quark with the CREST framework.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:20:07 -
[130] - Quote
Feodor Mihailovici wrote:I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:
If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.
Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).
You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above.
Incursion communities are already starting to adopt the new fleet API in CREST and build awesome tools around that. I have seen some of the stuff they are building and it will result in a much better experience for everyone.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4365
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:20:51 -
[131] - Quote
Colonel Frost wrote:If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.
It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.
The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.
Please rethink this decision.
Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
397
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:21:31 -
[132] - Quote
Now cracks a noble heart. Goodnight, sweet prince; And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.
o7 IGB thank you for your many years of service |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
497
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:32:20 -
[133] - Quote
The IGB needed to go. When our corp had more ppl, only about half had the IGB working *at all*. Ironically it worked more reliably for me under wine!
It is old, the javascript was a fossil, it is not compliant with anything modern anymore. Seriously look at the size of the firefox/mozila team and then you think CCP should be a browser company? Really? You said that out loud and thought it made sense? It makes less sense than a Wookie on Endor!
As for the droves of people this quite small thread claims will leave with this change (they won't, in fact most people wont notice at all). Can i have your stuff?
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Mobutu Seko
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:33:30 -
[134] - Quote
God damn you all to hell!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsbYx6hevoQ |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
2
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:45:15 -
[135] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Feodor Mihailovici wrote:I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:
If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.
Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).
You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above. Incursion communities are already starting to adopt the new fleet API in CREST and build awesome tools around that. I have seen some of the stuff they are building and it will result in a much better experience for everyone.
I know that part of the backend is CREST. But, having to alt-tab every x minutes to check the waitlist, having to alt-tab every time I want to check a market price, dotlan, etc. .... radically breaks the immersion and actually hinders the player, it does not help him/her in any way. Consider adding something like "IE Tab" into the Eve client, a wrapper to a browser of some sort ... that should help keep things integrated. |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
72
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:45:52 -
[136] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar. @CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.
Based on ever patch in the last year, CCP dont care about wormholes. Because only that nullsec drama brings in the dollars. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
291
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:47:41 -
[137] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:overlay Are you shipping overlay thingy in your installation package?
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Sarmatiko
1707
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:49:52 -
[138] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Been using Overwolf myself for the past few months without an issue. Care to give it a try? Trying it now on Sisi and I wonder - "Opening link in Overwolf browser" feature currently works with EVE or not? Because when I'm trying to open link on current build it opens in my default browser anyway and not in overlay. Working as intended?
Anyway, I understand why you removing this antic Awesomium abomination and I support this. But is there at least small chance that we will get pure integrated browser (Chromium) sometime in near future? Have someone seriously evaluated how IGB currently affects new players experience in EVE with all those guide links, cheatsheet images and fittings? "Welcome to EVE Newbro! Now please install 3rd party overlay browser so we could properly help you without alt+tabbing every minute." |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
266
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:50:20 -
[139] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Axhind wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)
There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away. But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now. Would love more details about when CREST is unreliable. The location tracking has been rock solid for me since we fixed the last few defects with it. Been using it in combination with Pathfinder (the WH mapping software) for a while now with no problem.
I've been trying to use it with pathfinder and on Friday (2016-06-17) it worked for a bit with regular reloads of the pathfinder, but since then it doesn't work at all. IGB version has worked perfectly every time.
Not sure what it is (I'm just a user) but with that level of functionality it's basically non-existing functionality. If you can give me some advice on how to troubleshoot the issue I can help out with it. |
Seynix
S.T.A.R.S Command
1
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:51:16 -
[140] - Quote
I never used the IGB anyway, it looked like a huge security risk so I just alt tabbed or had another window open if I needed to check something. I never experienced any performance hits by having Eve in windowed mode on any of my systems either. I hope dropping it lets the devs focus on more important things, like the actual game.
Sucks for the people that relied on it, but securing systems and having a better game is more important IMO. |
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Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
75
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Posted - 2016.06.20 21:52:20 -
[141] - Quote
Colonel Frost wrote:If you break Siggy, that will be very, very bad. Siggy is a sine qua non for wormholing. If it doesn't automatically populate the destination, track the jump mass or show the location of group members, it's nerfed to the point of uselessness.
It's bad enough for WHers that you killed off C5 farming with the Citadel expansion. Farming those sites was fun, and it carried a risk commensurate with the reward. Now we have to "farm" C5s by rolling them - which involves much more risk and takes much more time for much less reward.
The loss of Siggy will make wormhole space unplayable. It will be insult to injury.
Please rethink this decision.
And other tools. We use Vippy.
And a number of our pilots use the IGB to map because they dont have second monitors. Having to alt tab to update sigs is ridiculous, you miss so much.
CCP, reallocate your funding and cycle your lead developers. Funding VR only pay2win niche games is not the way to make cash, making a good game what you have already established for years better is the way to go. If you keep pulling features like this you are only going to make it awful for older players too, and keep in mind your new player retention is ****. |
Sered Woollahra
No Fixed Abode Solyaris Chtonium
38
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:12:25 -
[142] - Quote
@CCP FoxFour a few people have asked about an option to use a locally installed browser as in game browser but I don't think I have seen any responses to that. Is it something you see as feasible or not?
Second, the existing Third Parties Policies documentation on overlays mentions 'unfair advantage' and other, rather (out of necessity) vague language. Some things are not explicity allowed but condoned, unless they give you an 'unfair advantage' et cetera. It is not inconceivable that, one day, someone using an in game overlay browser has an advantage over someone who has to alt-tab out of game. Would that be considered 'unfair'? If CCP actively pushes us towards overlays for internet browsing, you may want to check up on your existing third party policies and verify whether they still fit the new situation.
From a security perspective, I understand why you are removing the IGB, but I have to say that having to depend on overlays that are technically unsupported and carry some 'legal' ambiguity on whether they are allowed under certain circumstances, doesn't feel very comfortable to me. I'd rather have an embedded chrome or firefox browser. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4372
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:19:22 -
[143] - Quote
Sered Woollahra wrote:@CCP FoxFour a few people have asked about an option to use a locally installed browser as in game browser but I don't think I have seen any responses to that. Is it something you see as feasible or not?
That isn't really a simple task unfortunately.
Sered Woollahra wrote:Second, the existing Third Parties Policies documentation on overlays mentions 'unfair advantage' and other, rather (out of necessity) vague language. Some things are not explicity allowed but condoned, unless they give you an 'unfair advantage' et cetera. It is not inconceivable that, one day, someone using an in game overlay browser has an advantage over someone who has to alt-tab out of game. Would that be considered 'unfair'? If CCP actively pushes us towards overlays for internet browsing, you may want to check up on your existing third party policies and verify whether they still fit the new situation.
Not going to speak for the security team, I will however pass this along to them. When I talked to them about this they said browsers in an overlay were perfectly allowed. As with policy changes in the past if they happen notice will be given.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Jonathan Wolf
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:21:28 -
[144] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote: saved fits...the 200 piece cap of personal fittings is starting to get insufficient, and it forces me to use external tools for no apparent valid reason, EFT ftw. havent gotten to suggest the cap removed in the forums yet, thanks for reminding me.
I have four options I use to get around the fittings cap:
1. Mailing lists. You have a mailing list that you and your alts can subscribe to that have different fits in the welcome mail. You can create many, many mailing lists to cover a wide variety of fits, being as general or as granular as you'd like. The big downside to this is that it can make it pretty obvious who your characters are if you have all of them subscribed to the mailing list. To get around this...
2. Private chat channels. You can set up a private chat channel, whose only operator is your Out-of-corp hauler or other char who doesn't interact with other groups' API's. As with mailing lists, you can set up multiple channels, and as you need fits, you can join that channel, grab the fits you need, and then leave (don't stick around, as I'm not sure if it's possible to see which channels you're in but not the mod of via the API; I know for certain it's possible to see channels you do mod in). If that isn't an option for you, there's always...
3. Have a character or corp whose bios have a variety of fits that you regularly use. These characters / corps should not be associated with your in-corp characters at all, and should be a few degrees removed from actually doing anything related to your known chars. So long as you aren't interacting with them beyond logging them in to update fits or to simply view them (do not add them as contacts), it should be virtually impossible to associate these characters with yourself. If even that isn't an option...
4. Use the in-game note pad. This is, without a doubt, the worst possible choice, simply because you can't use the fits across your different characters. If you only have a single character, that isn't such a big problem, but for many people, that would be a deal-breaker. The in-game notepad provides quite a bit of space to add fits, and with the ability to add folders, you can make things fairly granular.
Anyway, is there anyone (CCP, or one of the CSM, perhaps?) who could clarify about channels in API visibility? Is it possible to see any channel you're in, or can you only see on the API which channels you own or are an operator in? That would make things quite a bit easier for me, at least, and probably others, as well. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
38
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:21:56 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:The overlays that I just stated are inadequate? Is there a reason why CCP cannot manage to maintain an IGB while other game developers can? I'm struggling to think of examples for this, other than the Steam in-game browser, and their development situation isn't really analogous to ours.
Other than Secret World, which makes a big deal of using its IGB to solve its puzzles on websites setup by the devs for the purpose? There are probably plenty of others, but Secret World was the main one I played due to the nature of how integrated it was with the gameplay itself. Much like the IGB in eve. The difference is that the developers of Secret World intended it, whereas in Eve, the integration is player-driven, something CCP purports to hold higher than any other kind of gameplay.
The problem is that your arguments for its removal are facetious at best:
You're a games developer - Yes, and the IGB is a useful tool in your game and therefore worthy of the development time. If you were talking about the rubbish third person walking around a station I'd agree with you, it has no place in the game and no use, by all means cut it. The IGB gets a lot of legitimate use for so many different things.
Alt-Tab out is a flippant response and there are so many times where that just isn't appropriate or wise, not being able to keep an eye on the overlay/D-Scan etc. whilst alt-tabbed makes that impractical, especially for wormholes where it's dangerous enough and you have to keep eyes on scanners etc.
When this was first proposed someone from CCP threw out a flippant comment about many people having multiple monitors. That particular comment is probably the greatest example of the way CCP view their customers. Bottomless money pits. Some of us have no room or money for a second monitor and that kind of elitist comment is just about the worst thing you can say.
On the previous thread for this when it was first proposed, there were many many protests at the removal of the IGB, CCP addressed almost none, except as above. I'd have more respect if you were at least honest and just stated you couldn't be bothered to develop it any more, at least that would have had the ring of truth to it. If you refuse to support an IGB, you can't then suggest other pieces of third party software that you decline to support, which themselves may come with their own security risks. |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
76
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:22:33 -
[146] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: That isn't really a simple task unfortunately.
Doesn't mean you cant try. |
Kalpel
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:26:34 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour.
So CCP puts the work load on the customers to find a "reliable" overlay, Surely this will help keep the subscriptions rolling in yes?
The number one rule in MMORPG development should be "removing content from the game is never a good thing" and this rule should be tattooed on every developers forehead in bold font, so that each and every member of a development team never forgets it while in meetings to discus future game updates and content, LOL!
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
355
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:30:00 -
[148] - Quote
Cismet wrote:I'd have more respect if you were at least honest and just stated you couldn't be bothered to develop it any more, at least that would have had the ring of truth to it.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly the one and only reason they gave for shutting it down.
KB
Dum Spiro Spero
Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
355
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:31:09 -
[149] - Quote
Kalpel wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour. So CCP puts the work load on the customers to find a "reliable" overlay, Surely this will help keep the subscriptions rolling in yes? The number one rule in MMORPG development should be "removing content from the game is never a good thing" and this rule should be tattooed on every developers forehead in bold font, so that each and every member of a development team never forgets it while in meetings to discus future game updates and content, LOL!
The IGB isn't "content."
Dum Spiro Spero
Not getting SP for not killing a rat is like not getting ore for not mining an asteroid.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4373
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:32:39 -
[150] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: That isn't really a simple task unfortunately.
Doesn't mean you cant try.
True, but it is a matter of prioritization. So many things we want to do and a limited number of devs.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
76
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:33:19 -
[151] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote: The IGB isn't "content."
Its a feature, which still falls under his argument. |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
76
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:34:15 -
[152] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Lt Shard wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: That isn't really a simple task unfortunately.
Doesn't mean you cant try. True, but it is a matter of prioritization. So many things we want to do and a limited number of devs.
Lt Shard wrote: Funding VR only pay2win niche games is not the way to make cash, making a good game what you have already established for years better is the way to go. If you keep pulling features like this you are only going to make it awful for older players too, and keep in mind your new player retention is ****.
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
292
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:41:16 -
[153] - Quote
Kalpel wrote:So CCP puts the work load on the customers to find a "reliable" overlay Exactly my concern. I can understand why they're removing IGB, but make a proper workaround. Yes, you - CCP. Dont put this burden on our shoulders. |
Alan Greenspud
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:45:05 -
[154] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.
This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose.
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Marsha Mallow
2860
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:48:19 -
[155] - Quote
Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. The IGB has been slated for removal for years. At least with a staggered announcement like this people have time to adapt, whether that be switching to an overlay, changing their preferred ingame tools (or redeveloping them via Crest) or getting set up with an additional monitor. If it's not stable and will require excessive resources to maintain best can it asap before users start having serious problems. It's always been a bit flimsy anyway without flash.
Tbf, I've just bought a 4k monitor (\o/) so windowed mode will be fine and for the first time now have 2 monitors, so maybe I'm in a reasonably good position to deal with this. But ever since concerns were raised about the IGB I've been trying to cut down using it, and once you get used to pretending it's not there you find alternate habits. Either way, thanks for the info about overlays, will test Overwolf and Evolve and see if it's better than windowed. Another cheaper option for those who can't afford a second monitor but prefer to have a browser open continuously might be to set up a small tablet on a stand, or if your phone is big enough just use that.
Those reliant on ingame browser tools could do with poking the developers of those direct to see what their plans are, or have them start a centralized discussion so people can monitor it. They can't have been unaware this change was due so might have new stuff in the pipeline via crest.
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
79
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:50:12 -
[156] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about.
People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? |
Made NChina
Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 22:51:32 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour.
..............
You guy don't even know how much i hate you !!
How many website will i have to be rebuild because of you !! Lots of tools had been made arround that IGB, we're probably not the only ones. Your talking about CREST and a lot of people think it will be fine. BUT NO !! We'll have to rebuild our website arround that thing.... Its a game, we don't want to spend time rebuilding tools that are already working great !
The Browser is fine like it is at the moment.
Why don't u let player use old browser or redirection has a option !!
............... |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4375
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:53:22 -
[158] - Quote
Alan Greenspud wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.
This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose.
I'm not sure you understand who you're talking to. I really don't want to be rude so instead of trying to tell you how much I care I will suggest you go talk to any active third-party developer and ask them what they think of me. I know a few are a little annoyed with me and a few of the things I have done but I don't doubt they will all agree I care a HUGE amount about them and the work they do. Hell even right now a few of them are going to be upset they only have three months to do the work... but they still know how much I care. So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage.
That is just my comment in response to you thinking I don't care... for the sake of not being a complete ******* I am going to not respond to how you think I treat third-party devs.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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SyntaxPD
PowerDucks PowerDucks Alliance
33
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:57:33 -
[159] - Quote
Shame on you, CCP, for not being able to keep features. Shame on you, CCP, for not being able to keep online even with latest updates?
Do you still claim, that your updates are successful ? Look at Apocrypha age, learn something from your predecesors finally! |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
80
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Posted - 2016.06.20 22:58:48 -
[160] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage.
I too, remember Incarna, and leaked Hilmar letters.
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Made NChina
Quebec's Underdog League Quebec United Legions
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:00:02 -
[161] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Alan Greenspud wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.
This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose. I'm not sure you understand who you're talking to. I really don't want to be rude so instead of trying to tell you how much I care I will suggest you go talk to any active third-party developer and ask them what they think of me. I know a few are a little annoyed with me and a few of the things I have done but I don't doubt they will all agree I care a HUGE amount about them and the work they do. Hell even right now a few of them are going to be upset they only have three months to do the work... but they still know how much I care. So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage. That is just my comment in response to you thinking I don't care... for the sake of not being a complete ******* I am going to not respond to how you think I treat third-party devs.
........
Useless work because of an useless change..... That is what third party dev are thinking.... three months to do the work ... Three Months for remaking what is already working at the moment !!
That is what we call, losing time for nothing...
........ |
SilentG
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:02:22 -
[162] - Quote
hmmmm
ok im one of the vets in this game, and i have been plaing since 2004.
The IGB is one of the things that have been helping me since my start, and i really feel sorry for its burial.
Im playing multiple tons on a laptop, ithout a boot, and this game is starting to bug me off.
Whenever you change the luncher we need to add all our overwiev and stuff once more, you never seem to take care of your old players that hve used 10 years or more on getting a decent setu.
IGB: why remove it?
Seems to me that EVE is going the way that all MMO are going. You need a serious setup to do play the game, probably a nice i7 core with 2 screens or more.
I have multiple chars from 2004, and have been doing great on a laptop, woth i3 and 4gb of normal shared ram, and i guess that have been the base of this game for 12 years. No million setup computers, and you coudnt buy your way to rich and famous.
We got skillinjectors, did we complain? yes some
We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...
Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh..
BAH |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
292
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:05:50 -
[163] - Quote
Made NChina wrote:Useless work because of an useless change..... That is what third party dev are thinking.... three months to do the work ... Three Months for remaking what is already working at the moment !! Enablers are the people who make the logistics for these large-scale things actually work. They are people who run mad spreadsheets to organize production lines for war efforts, they are people who manage roles and membership of big corporations and alliances, they build tools to do different tasks. And we kind of have a history of treating these people likeGǪ****. We put these people through a lot of painful, unnecessary work. (c) CCP Seagull
But please, dont come down too hard on SoxFour, he's a good one. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:12:02 -
[164] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
455
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:14:56 -
[165] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote: 2nd monitor ;)
Sure. You buying me one and a larger space for my setup so I can place one? It's funny how cold and cavalier some people can be about the situation of others.
But you keep right on cheering for another removal of in-game functionality and replacement with a half-assed hack. |
Turtle Udan
Dropbears Anonymous Friendly Probes
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:15:46 -
[166] - Quote
SilentG wrote:hmmmm
We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...
Reach out to Google, opera, microsoft or any other, and let them do the IGB, you can maybe get payed for it as well insted of let the specs to play go skyhigh..
1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device.
2) This is not how this works. Microsoft, Google, and Opera don't care about the IGB, and they CERTAINLY won't pay CCP for the massive effort required to integrate their browsers into the game. |
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:16:07 -
[167] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? fixed it for you: People who should have stopped using the IGB years ago, upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
Just because you don't use doesn't mean others don't. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:16:27 -
[168] - Quote
what was that middle part? |
Marsha Mallow
2860
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:22:14 -
[169] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic.
The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you.
ps. You're not good at this game
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
|
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
81
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:31:50 -
[170] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? Don't rely on tools attached to a feature slated for removal? You'd have to live under a rock to not be aware this was on the cards. Sometimes I wonder how many Eve players legit do live under rocks. Arguments for and against have already been made. Explanations have been provided as to why continued support isn't feasible. You carrying on isn't going to change it, and frankly the bawwing is pathetic. The IGB didn't even exist when I started. Luckily I have a brain larger than a pea so I can probably figure out how to play without it. You're clearly screwed and should probably hand over the stuff now and flounce off and take that self-righteous indignation with you. ps. You're not good at this game
You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example.
Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ******* crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I ******* LOVE it. But when I see **** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring.
ps gag is ironic and post with your main |
|
Lucy Andedare
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:35:06 -
[171] - Quote
This is actually very upsetting. I use the IGB constantly. Hopefully this doesn't ruin the experience of EVE for me. |
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:37:12 -
[172] - Quote
RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently.
I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder.
CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Because There aren't any for Mac users? |
Marsha Mallow
2860
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:48:58 -
[173] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:You're an idiot and a ccp shill. I am advocating for quality of life for my corp mates and the rest of w-space. You keep using "slated for removal". Lots of things had been on the chopping block and pushback from players have stopped them, take the bookmark warping for example.
Simply put, MY PEOPLE use it, and dont want to see it go. Its not a ******* crime to want a feature kept instead one after the other being shaved off like the camera or how much ccp is pushing the godawful new probing system. I care about this game because I ******* LOVE it. But when I see **** getting removed like this I die a bit on the inside. Because of this I am so passionate about voicing my opinion on it. CCP have been making the wrong moves in the last few months and its tiring.
ps gag is ironic and post with your main The last WH mapper tool I used was already in re-development via CREST a year ago due to the slated ingame browser removal. I'm not unaware of your complaint, or how reliant some players are on niche tools. That said, there are increasing numbers of CREST based tools. This isn't feedback btw, or remotely constructive. If they leave a broken IGB in place to appease people with bespoke tools it puts all potential users at risk. It's possible that a compromise could be reached, or certain functionality could be integrated into the client. But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again.
This is my main btw. If I am a CCP shill, they better start paying me. But tbh, if I have an issue with a change I don't hesitate to report it, just don't see any point gibbering like a 5 year old. You carry on though, whatever works for you.
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
|
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
82
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:51:05 -
[174] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:. But whipping out the 'CCP doesn't love us, the sky is falling, we're doomed' line of argument demolishes any credibility here, so try again.
i love strawmanning! |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:56:16 -
[175] - Quote
Turtle Udan wrote:SilentG wrote:hmmmm
We now loose IGB, do i want to complain? YES, and why? my laptop crashes when playing 2-3-4-5 toons AND need browser online also...
1) CREST allows you to access your tools from ANOTHER device, you don't have to use your laptop for 5 toons and a browser, you can use the browser on any other device.
Let me give you all an example when the In-Game Browser has a great impact on EVE. If you fly under NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) rule and a SPECTRE fleet comes in you want to be able to identify the red pilots as quickly as possible to avoid shooting those who are not known as hostile. Currenty the IGB allows setting standings quickly by clicking on a name of the hostile party which opens an in-game window from which the standing can be set quickly. I do not see how it could be done from another device; not to mention that this functionality does not work with the Out Of Game Browser. Unfortunately for NRDS it is just another example of user generated content which as far as I can tell is not part of in-game mechanics. The in-game mechanics does not really support NRDS in itself, so removal of IGB and the extended functionality it provides might have a negative impact on this play style. I really hope at this point that you are not going to draw parallels that NRDS is a "substantial margin" of EVE as most of it is NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It) anyway, just as it was said in the DEV blog that most players do not use the IGB.
I also cannot understand, why do you even expect the player to buy another device of any sort to play the game? The game gives you the most entertaining experience when it has all the features included in it. Many functions that the IGB has to offer are unfortunately not included in the game itself. However, the IGB allows the player to reach outside sources which does not force them to minimize the game and as such makes it a great UI extension. |
Jiradus Tazinas
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:57:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Because they're not supported on the Mac.
"Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11"
If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric'
- WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues.
- I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine.
- Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.)
- Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems.
- Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience.
- Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly
- Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game.
- Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.)
|
Nicholas Vierra
Jarlhettur's Drop
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.20 23:57:57 -
[177] - Quote
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently. I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder. CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Because There aren't any for Mac users?
The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools.
To me Crest looks to be capable of delivering a lot, loosing the ingame browser is going to be an adjustment, but its for the best. Let it go, and hell, while you are at it #LetLetitGoGo!
Come and join us in Deninard!
|
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:02:20 -
[178] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote:Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:RIP mac players? I understand there was literally 0 developer care for the IGB on Mac, but I don't know of any viable, supported overlays. Steam is a heap of trash that crashes consistently. I really want to play this game, but it's only getting harder and harder. CCP FoxFour wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Because There aren't any for Mac users? The Ingame browser will still be around until october, Links just wont default to it. By the time October rolls around, You will probably already be using your iOS / Android device as your browser / EVE Multitool for ingame and out of game stuff, or of course you will also be able to use Safari, FireFox, Edge or Chrome to access the same tools, along with your legacy tools. !
I don't have an iPad and no way in hell I'm relying on my iPhone for regular information for Eve. I don't see how the october time frame has any relevance to the fact that there is absolutely no overlay options for Mac users, are you just arguing we must be at a disadvantage compared to windows players? The IGB/Overlay aspect is hugely valuable, and honestly pretty critical to a lot of activity in the game. |
Nicholas Vierra
Jarlhettur's Drop
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:04:52 -
[179] - Quote
Jiradus Tazinas wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because they're not supported on the Mac."Use a Steam Product that puts up an overlay over the Windows Browser, using DirectX 11" If you're going to cut the cord, then you need to have solid support for users who are not 'Windows Centric'
- WINE doesn't function well in a windowed mode, and the framerate performance starts to crawl and cause all sorts of twitchy issues.
- I have yet to get anything to function from an Overlay perspective in Wine.
- Needing to bounce in and out of Eve to look stuff up makes for a poor user experience. (Especially on the Mac, using the full-screen WINE client.)
- Mac Support - Browser centric models don't discriminate against users of alternate operating systems.
- Checking information regarding missions/reference material while keeping focus on the game is a crucial part of the In Game Experience.
- Forcing people to run either in a Windowed Mode or have multiple monitors is not player friendly
- Loosing the IGB is CERTAINLY not new-user friendly. (What are your IGB stats for new user accounts and trial accounts that aren't associated with either the same credit card, or email address?) The lack of information about the game available IN GAME is painful from a learning perspective. The New User Experience is painful at best, and being able to pull up references that allowed me to find my own answers was great. While staying in game.
- Poor user experience may not kill it for everyone, but poor New User Experience and a lack of proper in-game resources will kill it for lots of folks. (Especially for those who don't run windows.)
As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.
Come and join us in Deninard!
|
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:08:28 -
[180] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote: As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.
Some of us use it quite exhaustively, because we have to. |
|
Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
86
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:09:14 -
[181] - Quote
Nicholas Vierra wrote:
As a new player I did not find out about the IGB untill I clicked a link in Local chat... It was a Porn Link. I did not use it again until my CEO linked me to some tools like Dotlan, which worked better for me out of game than they did in game. I did most of my web / tools stuff out of game on a phone, tablet, in station ALT-Tabbing, and I learned most of the game mechanics from EXPERIENCING the game, watching video's, and learning from my corpmates. At no time have I ever been dependent on the In game browser. I learned how to play without it, it made no difference for me as a newbie, and I doubt it would for anyone else if they hadn't been TAUGHT to rely on it. Times Change, Games change, and the tools will also change.
Just because you dont use it daily doesn't mean others dont |
Draconas109
The Society of Mutual Respect Care Factor
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:44:06 -
[182] - Quote
So instead of taking care of legacy crap that thousands still use for one reason or another by spending time trying to update the IGB in house or try to have an outside contractor do it for you, or hell even have people who'd be willing to do it for you FOR FREE, you kill the IGB outright and tell every third party app developer who's designed their apps to work WITH the IGB "lel change ur ****"
seriously, the time money and effort CCP put towards skins, skill injectors, console and VR pet projects, fudging the launcher (AGAIN), the useless map changes, the useless and motion sickness inducing camera changes (because we totally asked for docking/undocking animations that WE CANT TURN OFF) and the plethora of stupid crap to turn EVE into a WOW-in-space clone, could've easily been spent on updating the IGB in some way shape or form.
I'm kinda pissed since 90% of the tools I use wants the IGB for some reason or another.
If im kinda pissed, I can't tell you how third party app makers feel about this but I can only imagine it's worse. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:47:25 -
[183] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:Just because you dont use it daily doesn't mean others dont
yes and you should have worked for months if not years to make yourself less reliant on the IGB. so start now to port your things to crest. ask the devs of your tools to start using crest. and then give constructive feedback to the devs.
things like "we tried to port XYZ from the IGB to crest using resources X and Y. but we run into a problem. was our way the right one?"
but it doesnt matter how much time you give people there will still be people complaining at the next announcement or when the deadline finally hits. |
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 00:58:51 -
[184] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Lt Shard wrote:Just because you dont use it daily doesn't mean others dont yes and you should have worked for months if not years to make yourself less reliant on the IGB. so start now to port your things to crest. ask the devs of your tools to start using crest. and then give constructive feedback to the devs. things like "we tried to port XYZ from the IGB to crest using resources X and Y. but we run into a problem. was our way the right one?" but it doesnt matter how much time you give people there will still be people complaining at the next announcement or when the deadline finally hits.
Developer platforms is not what that statement is referring to, it's referring to the player use, and the lack of overlay existence for Mac users.
This is as close to constructive as Mac users can get, THERE IS NO OPTION FOR US. |
MAS0RAKSH
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:01:56 -
[185] - Quote
the only 2 uses -spamming obscene gifs during fleet and D-Scan results. Please create D-Scan sharing and a pop-up for the shared results in a new tab.
rip a whole bunch of stuff now
F
|
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:05:09 -
[186] - Quote
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:This is as close to constructive as Mac users can get, THERE IS NO OPTION FOR US.
basically you are using a version of wine. you can try to run overwolf under wine too and see if it can attach to the other window running under wine. if you really need that overlay stuff.
but i was more talking about all the apps still relying on the old IGB headers. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:06:32 -
[187] - Quote
MAS0RAKSH wrote:D-Scan results.
there are a few sites to share d-scan results. and you can just insert your clipboard into the input box. and they come with nice things like counting ship types and stuff.
|
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:12:14 -
[188] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:This is as close to constructive as Mac users can get, THERE IS NO OPTION FOR US. basically you are using a version of wine. you can try to run overwolf under wine too and see if it can attach to the other window running under wine. if you really need that overlay stuff. but i was more talking about all the apps still relying on the old IGB headers.
Yes, the quote you quoted was in reference to mac users using the IGB as a player. AFAIK there's no way to easily attach a separate wine application to another wine instance, the only option would be running it inside of the Eve WINE container, of which may require modification for compatibility.... and I don't know if the CCP security guys would approve. I certainly haven't been able to find any details on doing such a thing.
This is assuming Overwolf even plays nice. |
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:17:39 -
[189] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:MAS0RAKSH wrote:D-Scan results. there are a few sites to share d-scan results. and you can just insert your clipboard into the input box. and they come with nice things like counting ship types and stuff.
Oh, yes. And it is done best if you do not have to Alt + Tab or buy another screen or use your smartphone for it. As such this is a well established in-game functionality that is virtually going to be removed. Creating such a list after the IGB removal will involve an out of game browser. Opening it will involve out of game browser. If you are lucky to have enough resolution to fit it on the screen or another means of accessing it without having to minimize your client, then it's all good. Though if you don't, then you're going to be at an disadvantage.
In my opinion CCP? Sure remove the IGB after you have ensured that all the functions it offered remain in game and are at least as easily accessible as they were with the IGB. And I mean in game. Not out of it. |
Kalpel
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:28:53 -
[190] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Lt Shard wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: That isn't really a simple task unfortunately.
Doesn't mean you cant try. True, but it is a matter of prioritization. So many things we want to do and a limited number of devs.
I'm sure there are lots of developers looking for work, so hire some more? or is CCP going broke?
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online
|
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Oddsodz
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
180
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 01:59:01 -
[191] - Quote
Alas, I know this will not change CCP's mind. But I pay my subs, So I can rant if I want.
I as a player do not feel it is right that one of the key tools of the game client currently that is the IGB is getting dropped with no replacement for it. CREST is not a replacement (but CREST is wonderful - don't get me wrong about how good I feel about CREST).
When I play EVE, I play it at FULL SCREEN on a 24" 1080p monitor. When I play any game. It is always FULL SCREEN. When I am playing a game. I don't wish to see anything eles on my monitor. The thing that I play games for a teamwork and immersion elements. I can not stress this enough.
Immersion is big letters.
Every time I have to alt tab from the client, I feel removed from the game. That to me is wrong. I have logged in to play the game. I don't wish to log in to the game to then turn the game off just to look at a picture or read a new bit of info about a new DEV blog. I wish to have that in the game client. Removing me from the game client for such things is very poor as far as I am concerned.
Now some folks here will say "get a 2nd monitor". And I say, Sure. You pay for it and the desk to fit it on with my current monitor.
As for CCP's recommendation of using "Overlays". I again feel this is bad. You are in effect telling us that to use the game client as we do now. We have to install a new app from somebody who CCP has no working relationship with. And who CCP will not support in anyway. Just to keep the current toolset that the IGB provides.
I myself will not be adding a overlay. As the horror stories I have seen in the past and from my own experiences for getting kicked/temp banned from games due to anti cheat software from said games always thinking Overlays are bad and cheating".
The only way I feel that CCP can get this right is to make an "OverLay" of it's own just for the eve client.
I agree that the current IGB is a DEV time/work sink. And I agree that CCP needs to dump it. CCP is not a internet browser company. But I also feel that from and end user standpoint. How much work can it be to just give us a overlay that will let us have any browser that we like IE: MS Edge - Chrome - FireFox - Safari. I am not asking CCP to make a web browser. I get why it is hard work pulling that one off. All I am asking is that you give us the component that will let us have a web browser with in the game client and not have to alt -tab for every little gif.
Thank you for reading my rant.
Oddsodz |
Kaltag the Chinook
Kaltag and Co.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 02:30:52 -
[192] - Quote
Not sure if this has been asked, did a quick glaze over but is there a way to move bookmarks as I have collected a lot over the years. |
Garak n00biachi
The Scope Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 04:02:40 -
[193] - Quote
You cant be serious; holy hell you guys are terrible at managing this game. Im beginning to suspect you are deliberately chasing away the tiny playerbase you have left so you can pull the plug, there cannot be any other reason for something as ******** as this.
|
Garak n00biachi
The Scope Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 04:15:24 -
[194] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
What a horrible arrogant smart ass way to reply to the people that pay your salary. Absolutely dreadful, your boss should forbid you to even respond via any social media if youre this classless.
|
nezroy
Nice Clan
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 04:28:52 -
[195] - Quote
Quick note for all those talking about overlays. You don't need anything nearly that complex or annoying.
If you are running EVE in Fixed Window mode, which is equivalent to every other game's Fullscreen Windowed mode (and doesn't everyone do this already anyway for a million other reasons?), then you can use any kind of always-on-top flagger to just set a chrome/safari/whatever window to be always on top of the EVE client. For example, see the one-line autohotkey script mentioned here.
Then just put your always-on-top browser window wherever you normally would put the IGB and you are done. Depending on your win/chrome themes you can even get transparency too (I believe Safari can do transparency just via its options even).
If you need to minimize it regularly that can be a bit more of an issue. My preference is to just run my fixed windowed mode EVE client a bit smaller than my actual desktop size; as long as your taskbar is on the right or the bottom this works since EVE's fixed window anchors to the upper-left. So I can always see my windows taskbar to grab any minimized stuff quickly, which is super useful for a lot of other reasons anyway. |
Blacksmoke16
Resilience.
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 04:45:05 -
[196] - Quote
@CCP FoxFour
Thanks for the help so far first off. However i did check the response and fixed that error. However i am now getting:
Quote:{message: "Authentication scope needed", key: "authNeeded", exceptionType: "UnauthorizedError"} exceptionType : "UnauthorizedError" key : "authNeeded" message : "Authentication scope needed"
Even though i am using an app with publicData and remoteClientUI scopes. Am i missing a scope or is something else amok? |
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation
64
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 05:37:06 -
[197] - Quote
IGB is invaluable. This is a bad change. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2565
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 05:41:38 -
[198] - Quote
Brain Gehirn wrote:You can resize windows and put then in front of your game. I have been doing this for like.. a couple of years? and never ever had any issues. Unless you are REALLY lazy you can survive without the IGB. SURE, it can help a lot.. but nothing that you can't do. Also, unless you have a REALLY bad computer, windowed mode is the same as the fullscreen mode (I run windowed since 2006 tbh).
"you do not need to develop your app for the IGB" Well.. you are kinda wrong. Every EVE website needs to support the old IGB in some way, even if you don't rely on any feature that it has. Why? Css/JS issues all around if you don't use old things too. jQuery for example you need the 1.11 version to be ok.... but the actual jQuery version is 3.0. So every website that wants to be able to get some views and work ingame needs to support old things, avoid new libs and so on...
Now go back to ratting. <3 So, now I need to constantly juggle around my out of game windows in order to accommodate for this shortcoming? It's not like that it's completely idiotic having to move around out of game windows and programs for something that has to be ingame in order to continue to be able to see chats, overview, scans, hangars and other things, and then move the out of game windows back in the previous layout positions when you are done with EVE ... and move them back into position when you again need something in EVE. That's utter garbage. My computer can handle 2 clients in window mode just barely in calm situations with just barely acceptable 24 FPS and a really high CPU load and that computer is not from 10 years ago, but it's also not a high end gaming machine because some people work and live on a budget. Fullscreen mode is by a considerably margin less performance hungry than window mode.
That you develop for the IGB is the problem. As I said, you can develop applications (application != website tool) that does not require the IGB or website tools that run without the IGB and use CREST. That's what you now have to do anyways, so I do not understand your given reasons why the IGB is bad at all.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Julian Aldurald
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
19
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 06:12:34 -
[199] - Quote
I feel like this is gona be a good change in the long run at least. Ty for the fade out phase until oct tho. I feel like this'll give every developer enough time to update the important apps so they can fully work with crest if they didnt do that yet. |
Julian Aldurald
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
19
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 06:17:59 -
[200] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Alas, I know this will not change CCP's mind. But I pay my subs, So I can rant if I want.
I as a player do not feel it is right that one of the key tools of the game client currently that is the IGB is getting dropped with no replacement for it. CREST is not a replacement (but CREST is wonderful - don't get me wrong about how good I feel about CREST).
When I play EVE, I play it at FULL SCREEN on a 24" 1080p monitor. When I play any game. It is always FULL SCREEN. When I am playing a game. I don't wish to see anything eles on my monitor. The thing that I play games for a teamwork and immersion elements. I can not stress this enough.
Immersion is big letters.
Every time I have to alt tab from the client, I feel removed from the game. That to me is wrong. I have logged in to play the game. I don't wish to log in to the game to then turn the game off just to look at a picture or read a new bit of info about a new DEV blog. I wish to have that in the game client. Removing me from the game client for such things is very poor as far as I am concerned.
Now some folks here will say "get a 2nd monitor". And I say, Sure. You pay for it and the desk to fit it on with my current monitor.
As for CCP's recommendation of using "Overlays". I again feel this is bad. You are in effect telling us that to use the game client as we do now. We have to install a new app from somebody who CCP has no working relationship with. And who CCP will not support in anyway. Just to keep the current toolset that the IGB provides.
I myself will not be adding a overlay. As the horror stories I have seen in the past and from my own experiences for getting kicked/temp banned from games due to anti cheat software from said games always thinking Overlays are bad and cheating".
The only way I feel that CCP can get this right is to make an "OverLay" of it's own just for the eve client.
I agree that the current IGB is a DEV time/work sink. And I agree that CCP needs to dump it. CCP is not a internet browser company. But I also feel that from and end user standpoint. How much work can it be to just give us a overlay that will let us have any browser that we like IE: MS Edge - Chrome - FireFox - Safari. I am not asking CCP to make a web browser. I get why it is hard work pulling that one off. All I am asking is that you give us the component that will let us have a web browser with in the game client and not have to alt -tab for every little gif.
Thank you for reading my rant.
Oddsodz
Get all the overlays odds including a proper overlay browser you'll love it. Ill try to test out a couple configurations for people like you as well and ill try to show you something thats decently handy to use. |
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2187
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 06:41:04 -
[201] - Quote
Thank you for making my life as a player less enjoyable CCP. I now have the choice of alt-tabbing out of the game (which is immersion breaking, inconvenient and downright dangerous from an in-game perspective in many situations) or adding some third party overlay hack that's specifically unsupported, disavowed and comes with many performance issues.
I think you've drastically underestimated just how many of us use the IGB everyday.
I know this is a done deal and no amount of player complaining or use case examples will make a bit of difference but I want to register my unhappiness with this decision anyway.
Back when this idea was first floated it was stated that the IGB wouldn't get axed until CREST was up to par as a replacement and that the most important cases for using the IGB were replicated. Why has that changed?
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 06:44:26 -
[202] - Quote
So supposedly IGB is only used by a small amount of players in game ... except, you know, for one of the largest alliances/coalitions using it to track in game participation. But hey, I'm sure we don't need that handy tool.
CCP PAP link please. |
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 07:10:51 -
[203] - Quote
nezroy wrote:Quick note for all those talking about overlays. You don't need anything nearly that complex or annoying. If you are running EVE in Fixed Window mode, which is equivalent to every other game's Fullscreen Windowed mode (and doesn't everyone do this already anyway for a million other reasons?), then you can use any kind of always-on-top flagger to just set a chrome/safari/whatever window to be always on top of the EVE client. For example, see the one-line autohotkey script mentioned here.
Does not work for Mac users.
Julian Aldurald wrote: Get all the overlays odds including a proper overlay browser you'll love it. Ill try to test out a couple configurations for people like you as well and ill try to show you something thats decently handy to use.
Please enlighten me to a Mac overlay, because I've been looking all night and only found one that required not only compiling a piece of software but disabling SIP which is absolutely not an acceptable solution. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2572
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 07:33:13 -
[204] - Quote
nezroy wrote:If you are running EVE in Fixed Window mode, which is equivalent to every other game's Fullscreen Windowed mode (and doesn't everyone do this already anyway for a million other reasons?), then you can use any kind of always-on-top flagger to just set a chrome/safari/whatever window to be always on top of the EVE client. For example, see the one-line autohotkey script mentioned here It is not because Fixed Window Mode requires even more power than just Window mode, completely impeding dualboxing for a great many people. Not to mention that I do not need the out of game browser always on top, I need it on places ingame where I can also see other things, without having to completely mess my out of game UI layout just because.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
KarrPai Diem
Pineview Angus Moose Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 07:35:21 -
[205] - Quote
This makes me very sad. For a game that you can spend so much time in, the IGB allowed me to work and do other things without leaving new eden. I get that there are overlays and other options (but they wont be a part of eve), I would of liked the development to go the other way and find even more ways to enhance the UI so that we never have to minimize the game... like the addition of external mail accounts in mail and mapping local drives so you can browse the system hard drive and move and copy files (all with eve's cool interface), essentially allowing EVE to sit on top of the OS. and external calendar subscriptions.. (then i would be unstoppable)
this probably seems crazy to everyone, but if I can be in eve, check my mail, browse the hard drive, browse the web and use the calendars and calculator then I could do most of my tasks without ever coming back to non space ship pilot reality... i could live in that beautiful, futuristic looking OS replacement FOREVER....
....
When I joined eve so many years ago, truthfully, the fact that it had a web browser in the game, was the first thing that made me say wow THAT'S COOL....
totally respect the decisions you have to make, and still think EVE is fantastic... just wanted to share my opinion, because i wanted you to know how being productive inside that user interface made me and i hope some other people feel :)
Good luck. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55512
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 08:46:34 -
[206] - Quote
Definitely 100% against this.
For the past couple of years, decisions like this have been slowly killing the game.
Gotta say I've definitely lost all respect for you but hey, don't worry, I'll still pay my subscription fee each year so I can say :
"I was there ................. when CCP killed Eve."
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Cleanse Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 09:10:51 -
[207] - Quote
I'm playing 2 accounts with 2 monitors. I used to have tripwire in the IGB while Probing, while a was doing other stuff with the other account... Now i'll have to wether buy a 3rd monitor, or stop doing what i was doing with the second account at worst, at best, i'll be forced to be less effective with the second account..
That's a real downgrade to the confort of playing.
I've always seen the IGB like a advanced feature like any other game had. I was impressed at the time to be able to navigate the web while playing, it felt like a technology CCP had over the other games.
Now i'm really really sad #2. :( |
Turtle Udan
Dropbears Anonymous Friendly Probes
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 09:13:39 -
[208] - Quote
Damocles Orindus wrote:So supposedly IGB is only used by a small amount of players in game ... except, you know, for one of the largest alliances/coalitions using it to track in game participation. But hey, I'm sure we don't need that handy tool. CCP PAP link please.
One would think "one of the largest alliances/coalitions" had the IT people to write SSO/CREST based pap links. |
Ossprey
Lucri Causa
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 09:23:44 -
[209] - Quote
Having been playing eve since Beta, I have always used the IGB for my gameplay, especially when I'm mobile and have to check links and Real world items, and on a 14" screen alt+tab is not really a option. will Crest allow us to run browsers in game from other suppliers so that those of us can continue to work while in eve. I'm surprised the network team hasn't flagged this up as a stupid idea.
|
Victor CheckMate
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 09:30:06 -
[210] - Quote
The key feature of IGB was opening fittings and info windows in-game. Can't you just register some kind of "eve://" magnet link, so that external browsers could open those links in Eve (if the client is already running). |
|
|
CCP Bugartist
C C P C C P Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:04:44 -
[211] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sered Woollahra wrote:@CCP FoxFour a few people have asked about an option to use a locally installed browser as in game browser but I don't think I have seen any responses to that. Is it something you see as feasible or not? That isn't really a simple task unfortunately. Sered Woollahra wrote:Second, the existing Third Parties Policies documentation on overlays mentions 'unfair advantage' and other, rather (out of necessity) vague language. Some things are not explicity allowed but condoned, unless they give you an 'unfair advantage' et cetera. It is not inconceivable that, one day, someone using an in game overlay browser has an advantage over someone who has to alt-tab out of game. Would that be considered 'unfair'? If CCP actively pushes us towards overlays for internet browsing, you may want to check up on your existing third party policies and verify whether they still fit the new situation. Not going to speak for the security team, I will however pass this along to them. When I talked to them about this they said browsers in an overlay were perfectly allowed. As with policy changes in the past if they happen notice will be given.
Thanks for poking us FoxFour. We actually explained the ruling on the topic in detail in one of our recent dev-blogs: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/
Quote:3. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. This is an example of something we do NOT consider unfair, for now. This also includes other in-game overlays which do NOT grant you any unfair advantage. We do not consider it an unfair advantage if you can see who is currently talking in your voice communication tool via the means of an in-game overlay. We also do NOT consider it unfair if you use other comfort overlays which do not affect how the game is played. This includes overlays for chat and IM applications, the Steam overlay, and Web-Browser overlays for example. |
|
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
43
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:13:12 -
[212] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:Lt Shard wrote:Just because you dont use it daily doesn't mean others dont yes and you should have worked for months if not years to make yourself less reliant on the IGB. so start now to port your things to crest. ask the devs of your tools to start using crest. and then give constructive feedback to the devs. things like "we tried to port XYZ from the IGB to crest using resources X and Y. but we run into a problem. was our way the right one?" but it doesnt matter how much time you give people there will still be people complaining at the next announcement or when the deadline finally hits.
I don't think you really understand how this works, you don't get to tell people how they SHOULD play their game. CCP *CAN* do that, and seem to be, but that just costs them custom. It may cost them a lot, it may cost them a little, the amount may be noticeable or it may not, but they technically can do that.
The question here is *SHOULD* they, and the majority here believe no they shouldn't. Most developers that I'm aware of don't take away functionality from their products, certainly not functionality that their customer base is screaming at them to leave alone. Doing so by most developers is just suicidal. Game developers seem to be the exception to this concept, as a lot of game developers seem to love taking content away, just like CCP are doing right now.
Okay, it's difficult to maintain it; frankly deal with it. There are so many people that use it for legitimate reasons that its removal hurts a large portion of your player base.
Much more than the benefits given by the likes of third person walking around stations, how much dev time did that dead end take up? If I accidentally click the wrong button I can spend a couple of minutes waiting to get out of my spaceship and walk around a place with a more clumsy interface than the one I normally use, which is really saying something.
When you have something that works for a large number of people, and that does no harm to the people that do NOT use it, there is no reason to remove that something.
If you don't wish to use the IGB then you are free to not use it, but telling other's how they SHOULD play their game isn't your right. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
43
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:17:42 -
[213] - Quote
CCP Bugartist wrote:Thanks for poking us FoxFour. We actually explained the ruling on the topic in detail in one of our recent dev-blogs: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/ Quote:3. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. This is an example of something we do NOT consider unfair, for now. This also includes other in-game overlays which do NOT grant you any unfair advantage. We do not consider it an unfair advantage if you can see who is currently talking in your voice communication tool via the means of an in-game overlay. We also do NOT consider it unfair if you use other comfort overlays which do not affect how the game is played. This includes overlays for chat and IM applications, the Steam overlay, and Web-Browser overlays for example.
There are two words here that are a massive problem: FOR NOW. Likewise WE DO NOT CONSIDER IT. The problem with these statements is that they are ambiguous and they can lead to your changing your mind. At any point in the future you can consider overlays and the access they bring to offer an unfair advantage. I understand why the terms are written in such a way, but this is a problem when you're removing the IGB as the IGB was part of the client and therefore by definition was allowed.
Anything outside the client *CAN* be interpreted as offering an unfair advantage, to say nothing of running another program with the problems and risks inherent to such. If anything, that quote just makes the situation worse simply because of the way it's worded. There's no certainty there, just a vague promise that we might not decide at some nebulous future point that overlays are bad for the game. |
|
CCP Bugartist
C C P C C P Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:39:37 -
[214] - Quote
Cismet wrote:CCP Bugartist wrote:Thanks for poking us FoxFour. We actually explained the ruling on the topic in detail in one of our recent dev-blogs: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/ Quote:3. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. This is an example of something we do NOT consider unfair, for now. This also includes other in-game overlays which do NOT grant you any unfair advantage. We do not consider it an unfair advantage if you can see who is currently talking in your voice communication tool via the means of an in-game overlay. We also do NOT consider it unfair if you use other comfort overlays which do not affect how the game is played. This includes overlays for chat and IM applications, the Steam overlay, and Web-Browser overlays for example. There are two words here that are a massive problem: FOR NOW. Likewise WE DO NOT CONSIDER IT. The problem with these statements is that they are ambiguous and they can lead to your changing your mind. At any point in the future you can consider overlays and the access they bring to offer an unfair advantage. I understand why the terms are written in such a way, but this is a problem when you're removing the IGB as the IGB was part of the client and therefore by definition was allowed. Anything outside the client *CAN* be interpreted as offering an unfair advantage, to say nothing of running another program with the problems and risks inherent to such. If anything, that quote just makes the situation worse simply because of the way it's worded. There's no certainty there, just a vague promise that we might not decide at some nebulous future point that overlays are bad for the game.
As with most things in life there is not just black and white. EVE Online changes every day, and so does the technology around it. We cannot set a ruling (our policies) in stone about a technology we have no control over (third party overlay software). We can only provide information and put rules in place for what we know at a given point in time and grant ourselves the right to correct our rules in the future if required.
It would be bad and unfair to all of you to communicate today that overlays for web-browser are fine forever without limitation. In a few days the technology behind said overlays for browsers might change in a way we cannot predict and we have to change the ruling again.
let me end this post with a quote:
Quote:GÇ£Let go of certainty. The opposite isn't uncertainty. It's openness, curiosity and a willingness to embrace paradox, rather than choose up sides. The ultimate challenge is to accept ourselves exactly as we are, but never stop trying to learn and grow.GÇ¥ GÇò Tony Schwartz |
|
Stoop Paz
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:55:06 -
[215] - Quote
As a player with a middle of the road pc, I am not happy with this choice. There are multitutes of websites I refer to using the IGB as a small window on my game client to trade, determine routes, setup industry, read up on stuff I probably should memorize (but haven't).
losing the IGB will be a hindrance to how I play, and I am not looking forward to it at all |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
44
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 10:56:48 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Bugartist wrote:As with most things in life there is not just black and white. EVE Online changes every day, and so does the technology around it. We cannot set a ruling (our policies) in stone about a technology we have no control over (third party overlay software). We can only provide information and put rules in place for what we know at a given point in time and grant ourselves the right to correct our rules in the future if required. It would be bad and unfair to all of you to communicate today that overlays for web-browser are fine forever without limitation. In a few days the technology behind said overlays for browsers might change in a way we cannot predict and we have to change the ruling again. let me end this post with a quote: Quote:GÇ£Let go of certainty. The opposite isn't uncertainty. It's openness, curiosity and a willingness to embrace paradox, rather than choose up sides. The ultimate challenge is to accept ourselves exactly as we are, but never stop trying to learn and grow.GÇ¥ GÇò Tony Schwartz
Exactly. That's the whole point. You can't. But you CAN leave the IGB in place which renders such a stance irrelevant for people that would use overlays, something you openly admit you cannot set a stone ruling allowing, for the things for which they currently use the IGB. The IGB is allowed regardless of any future changes as it's part of the client.
In addition, the changing technology is another reason why it's irresponsible to just tout overlays, that you refuse to support and have no control, as a replacement for in-game technology that currently works and is used extensively for many different legitimate uses.
While I'm on the subject, Foxfour made a comment earlier regarding having seen the numbers for use of the IGB, would he or she mind sharing those numbers and statistics? |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
917
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:10:03 -
[217] - Quote
Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly?
OMFG - they are removing it so they CAN manage their development properly. It's not rocket science people, and it's pretty much the same reasoning behind why the jukebox was removed. CCP wants to focus on the core game - the IGB, while a useful tool, is not part of that vision. Adapt or don't, but stop whinging about it and acting like CCP just kicked your puppy or something. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal, and if losing it causes you to quit the game, nothing of value will be lost.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
1265
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:10:10 -
[218] - Quote
Bit confused, we use external sites with fleet doctrines, u can open the page igb, and click the fit. It will open ingame your fitting window. Whihs is amazing to then buy all, fit all. Seconds later you are flying. Which is what you like.
As fc that feature lowered dramatically my fleet up times, and questions i got. There is no allaince fitting section. And this worked around that. Now 60 corps will need too work with mailing fits, saving, and any coorelation between them, to form a dctrine, is gone as well.
Its possible i miss a feature, but a igb version that opens your ingame fitting with a saved fit, is now replaced by ?
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Ahuraa
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:13:41 -
[219] - Quote
I dont understand any of this.
You are removing a function in the game and then say you want third-party devs to take over with CREST.
I have googled and i have not found any software named Crest that does the function of checking Jita prices.
Where is this CREST you talk about all the time, are you creating this software into the game or are you contracting other to crate this Crest Software that i can use to check prices?
Wouldn't it be better to use the money you spent on Project discovery, that does nothing for the game, to keep up the IGB so we can use it for TRADING, THAT IS PART OF THE GAME? |
Jiradus Tazinas
EVE University Ivy League
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:14:16 -
[220] - Quote
nezroy wrote:Quick note for all those talking about overlays. You don't need anything nearly that complex or annoying. If you are running EVE in Fixed Window mode, which is equivalent to every other game's Fullscreen Windowed mode (and doesn't everyone do this already anyway for a million other reasons?), then you can use any kind of always-on-top flagger to just set a chrome/safari/whatever window to be always on top of the EVE client. For example, see the one-line autohotkey script mentioned here. Then just put your always-on-top browser window wherever you normally would put the IGB and you are done. Depending on your win/chrome themes you can even get transparency too (I believe Safari can do transparency just via its options even). If you need to minimize it regularly that can be a bit more of an issue. My preference is to just run my fixed windowed mode EVE client a bit smaller than my actual desktop size; as long as your taskbar is on the right or the bottom this works since EVE's fixed window anchors to the upper-left. So I can always see my windows taskbar to grab any minimized stuff quickly, which is super useful for a lot of other reasons anyway.
This is not a solution for individuals who are NOT running windows.
The installer you are pointing to is a windows-centric installer product. While I'm sure that you meant well, this doesn't fix the issue that this isn't a fix for Mac/Linux users.
While there _may_ be a command line option somewhere that does some kind of 'transparency' that isn't a standard feature and isn't accessible by any kind of standard menu in Safari. |
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Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
44
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:35:40 -
[221] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Lt Shard wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Not quite sure what all the outrage is about. People who use the IGB upset when a feature is unnecessarily removed instead of ccp managing their development properly? OMFG - they are removing it so they CAN manage their development properly. It's not rocket science people, and it's pretty much the same reasoning behind why the jukebox was removed. CCP wants to focus on the core game - the IGB, while a useful tool, is not part of that vision. Adapt or don't, but stop whinging about it and acting like CCP just kicked your puppy or something. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal, and if losing it causes you to quit the game, nothing of value will be lost. Cismet wrote:
Okay, it's difficult to maintain it; frankly deal with it. There are so many people that use it for legitimate reasons that its removal hurts a large portion of your player base.
What are you willing to give up so CCP can "deal with it"? Rorqual rebalance? The new event system? General updates to the system? Proper direct x 11 integration? There's an old axiom in software development: You can have it quickly, cheaply, or correctly. Pick two. It may be a joke, but the point it makes is valid. When you're developing software, you only have so much time and so much budget to get things done. So you have to decide what matters to the end product, not individual users. In games development that means asking what is the vision of the game - what's the future state going to be, and can we achieve that with the resources we have while maintaining the current code base. If the answer is no, then something has to give, and stagnation will kill a game a lot faster than removing something that already has other, better (in terms of software quality, not usability) options to support that functionality. Because, I'm sorry to rain on your parade, software quality trumps usability, especially in areas where client security is a concern.
Give up? The game has been developed WITH it for years and development has continued. Let's not jump down the hyperbole "OMGNODEVELOPMENTBECAUSEIGBTAKESITALL" hysteria. The software is quality and rebalancing is not development work. It's tweaking numbers in a database.
You also seem to think that this is just individual users, have you not read the rest of this thread, plus the previous thread on this matter sometime last year? This isn't a small number of disgruntled users impacted, no matter how much you might like to pretend otherwise. I'll reiterate again, the development time for the IGB to keep it up to date pales in comparison to the development time on the abortion that was the station-walking nonsense. The vomit-inducing new cameras.
Noone asked for those; when you have something that works, don't change it is a truism of almost every industry. Stagnation is a problem, but only if it's NOT WORKING, if it's working then leave it the hell alone.
Again, something that is outside of the client is outside of the control of developers and is therefore subject to banning at any point in the future. If CCP have no control over it then touting it as a viable alternative is reckless and irresponsible and introducing another companies additional product could come with its own attendant security risks.
I'll admit that I don't know how they wrapped the IGB into the software, but they didn't write the IGB from scratch, so it's hardly like CCP are developing the browser itself, and depending on how they've wrapped it in they can insert the relevant security updates.
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US) AppleWebKit/532.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/3.0.195.27 Safari/532.0 EVE-IGB is the browsers identification, let's not pretend that CCP have created a browser from the ground up. |
Jiradus Tazinas
EVE University Ivy League
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:44:14 -
[222] - Quote
CCP Bugartist wrote:As with most things in life there is not just black and white. EVE Online changes every day, and so does the technology around it. We cannot set a ruling (our policies) in stone about a technology we have no control over (third party overlay software). We can only provide information and put rules in place for what we know at a given point in time and grant ourselves the right to correct our rules in the future if required. It would be bad and unfair to all of you to communicate today that overlays for web-browser are fine forever without limitation. In a few days the technology behind said overlays for browsers might change in a way we cannot predict and we have to change the ruling again. let me end this post with a quote: Quote:GÇ£Let go of certainty. The opposite isn't uncertainty. It's openness, curiosity and a willingness to embrace paradox, rather than choose up sides. The ultimate challenge is to accept ourselves exactly as we are, but never stop trying to learn and grow.GÇ¥ GÇò Tony Schwartz
The issue is that you want your paying customers to take at face value that tools will auto-magically appear on a solution that you don't support. Can't support, and have no ability to control. For all the platforms that you support in game.
This question of removing the IGB is a question of design.
Dieter Rams wrote:https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/about/good-design
- Good design is innovative.
- Good design makes a product useful.
- Good design is aesthetic.
- Good design makes a product understandable.
- Good design is unobtrusive.
- Good design is honest.
- Good design is long-lasting.
- Good design is thorough down to the last detail.
- Good design is environmentally friendly.
- Good design is as little design as possible.
Because as you say that you can't set a ruling around a product that you have no control over, you can't possibly embrace a non-controlled technology (browser overlays) as a valid solution.
The IGB meets all of the criteria for what might be classified as good design.
It is innovative in that it allows for crazy cool interaction in game.
It is an incredibly useful product for all folks. (Even those that want to watch .gifs)
The browser is a clean design, and fits into the standard interaction principles of the game.
the IGB helps to make Eve Online understandable, and from a browser perspective is a clean easy understandable feature.
The IGB is unobtrusive when interacting with things that are outside of the immediate eve online game. Browser Overlays and 'alt+tabbing' out are not.
The IGB is a clean honest way of interacting within eve and interacting with the outside world, while inside the game. Browser Overlays have the potential to be 'illegal' and can't be managed by CCP. and support is spotty at best.
The IGB, as a product has lasted for an extensive period of time. As for the thoroughness of it, I can't really address that, though it meets all the basic needs for an in-game product.
Including the IGB means that I don't need to 'buy a second monitor' and makes for a better user experience than the alt+tabbing and overlay mess.
The IGB is a simple interface in-game browser that meets the baseline needs of interacting with the outside world of Eve without a need to complicate the interaction. It is an easy solution that "just exists" within the controlled sandbox of Eve Online.
Browser Overlays, while innovative and may make a product useful are obtrusive, can't be validated as 'Honest' is technology that can change and is not guaranteed to be any level of long-lasting. Doesn't have support for non-windows platforms and isn't something that can even be addressed as being a through solution that was thought down to the last detail. |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1921
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:58:01 -
[223] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours? I will not ask you to remove the nuts because I'm supposedly allergic to them. I'm not.
This food sucks. Period.
Again functionality is removed from the game for the N-th time without fully functioning alternatives being present. Yes, 3-th party programs, without any guarantee that they will function as should (or at all) on the wildly varied machines and OS's people play EvE on. As opposed to the IGB. If you can use the client at all, you can use the IGB.
So for what it's worth, in my opinion, his food sucks. And that is a useful statement.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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brother stud
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:59:59 -
[224] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote:Bit confused, we use external sites with fleet doctrines, u can open the page igb, and click the fit. It will open ingame your fitting window. Whihs is amazing to then buy all, fit all. Seconds later you are flying. Which is what you like.
As fc that feature lowered dramatically my fleet up times, and questions i got. There is no allaince fitting section. And this worked around that. Now 60 corps will need too work with mailing fits, saving, and any coorelation between them, to form a dctrine, is gone as well.
Its possible i miss a feature, but a igb version that opens your ingame fitting with a saved fit, is now replaced by ?
This is all irrelevant core, think of all the neutrals, WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE NEUTRALS!... VALVA will finally have a valid excuse to shoot neutrals now, we can't afford a second monitor (you know, from living on the 'PROVI-FOOD-STAMP')
By decree of thy monocle, I vanquish NRDS to the ashes with the IGB
HED by Xmas, or evicted to high sec by a solitary PL super |
Red Yxa
Freedom Buildiers Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 12:23:42 -
[225] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:So...
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game. Which is great. The Overwolf browser does not have a bookmarks functionality. Which is great. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Any other suggestions? Just heard about Evolve today: https://www.evolvehq.com/welcome Have not tried it myself though.
Evolve overlay browser doesnt work with EVE since 2014. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6039
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 12:30:23 -
[226] - Quote
Ahuraa wrote:I dont understand any of this.
You are removing a function in the game and then say you want third-party devs to take over with CREST.
I have googled and i have not found any software named Crest that does the function of checking Jita prices.
Where is this CREST you talk about all the time, are you creating this software into the game or are you contracting other to crate this Crest Software that i can use to check prices?
Wouldn't it be better to use the money you spent on Project discovery, that does nothing for the game, to keep up the IGB so we can use it for TRADING, THAT IS PART OF THE GAME?
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/viewer/ perhaps?
CREST isn't a bit of software. It's an API for developers to use, to get access to data from CCP.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Evoque
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 12:53:22 -
[227] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/Tome93F.gif |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2584
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:12:24 -
[228] - Quote
Red Yxa wrote:Evolve overlay browser doesnt work with EVE since 2014. Does that overlay work at all? I smashed the hotkey to open it yesterday and nothing happened.
Furthermore, I just switched over to Windows 10 and now the alt-tabbing between full screen clients as well as to the desktop and from the desktop to the client is awfully slow, which makes alt-tabbing to use OOGB really unfeasible. And window mode requires between 10-20% more CPU load than full screen, which is a lot for my machine and most machines people use (according to CCP metrics). Fantastic.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Dream Green
Dampier Holding
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:16:42 -
[229] - Quote
Lazy design decision! Ingame Browser added dept to the game in a sense that you had the feeling of running some kind of EVE-OS (one could get the immersion of entering a whole world by starting eve.exe), with this its just one step further of being just another game of the many games there are out there... By abandoning it you admit of being lazy and call it "focusing on other things" - what a weak excuse!
you know how to make eve great again? by updating the browser, putting jukebox back in etc etc, a metaphor for what you are doing; ripping essential modules of a ship so its just good for travelling - but not for fighting anymore.
sad |
Imin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:32:19 -
[230] - Quote
Garak n00biachi wrote:You cant be serious; holy hell you guys are terrible at managing this game. Im beginning to suspect you are deliberately chasing away the tiny playerbase you have left so you can pull the plug, there cannot be any other reason for something as ******** as this.
This.
Removing the igb is a terrible idea.
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Houjuu Nue
Myouren Temple
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:40:10 -
[231] - Quote
This is first time I ever commenting an update. Thats how much it's suck. |
Sophia Mileghere
Scandium Defense and Security Inc. Dark - Alliance
68
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:53:43 -
[232] - Quote
I was hoping the IGB is expanded and brought up to current standards. Too bad. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
45
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 14:27:46 -
[233] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Because, I'm sorry to rain on your parade, software quality trumps usability, especially in areas where client security is a concern.
I actually just processed what this means. Are you high?? You think that quality is actually more important to people than usability?
Let me give you an experiment to go try. Go survey 100 people and ask them if they'd use a piece of software whose coding was perfect with no bugs whatsoever, but where the design was so bad that it was nigh unusable or if they'd rather use a piece of software that had a few bugs, but was easy and intuitive to use?
Go ahead. I'll wait. The answer will be that the unusable software might get a few hard core users that insist there's something golden in there somewhere but the overwhelmingly vast majority will take usable software. All day long. People are inherently lazy. There's a reason why phishing scams work and passwords are generally insecure. People want usability and ease of use.
I'm not at all sorry to rain on your parade, but usability trumps quality every single time, in every single metric that actually counts. I.e. People purchasing/using the particular item in question. The only circumstance in which your statement is true is an area where there simply isn't a choice, in which case you probably have neither. |
Veskin Sentinel
Vagrant Skies A Band Apart.
35
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 14:33:53 -
[234] - Quote
I can see that the arguments for shutting down the IGB are valid. I remember the first time when I learned that EVE has an integrated browser. I was really pleasantly surprised. It will be sad for me to see it go, but I can understand.
There will be no problem to use an external browser and overlay as long as it is set up correctly and mimics the functionality of the IGB.
What I suggest:
- Remove the IGB, but leave the Browser button on the Neocom; Make it configurable so that it can open a selected browser that is installed on the computer.
- We should be able to select any browser and overlay from the list and the EVE client should be set up so that it can recognise the installed browsers/overlays and show them in the list for selection.
- Then, when a link is clicked or the Neocom Browser button is pressed, a selected browser should open, but in windowed mode, so that we can move it around and not need to ALT-Tab all the time.
- If we decide to minimize the browser window, it should be able to be recalled via the Neocom Browser button, again opening in the windowed mode.
I hope this can be a solution.
www.veskin7.blogspot.com - my EVE related blog.
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nezroy
Nice Clan
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 15:44:36 -
[235] - Quote
Jiradus Tazinas wrote:This is not a solution for individuals who are NOT running windows.
The FORM of the solution is, however. "Always on top" is literally a right-click option for Gnome/GDK users already. (In fact, ANY form of customized window management is about a million times easier on a Linux platform in general, so the issue is completely moot there).
Approximately 15 seconds of searching for OS X always on top options yielded multiple possibilities. Check out afloat, for instance.
Hilariously, always on top -- and overlays, for that matter -- are not a perfect replacement solution to IGB removal for a lot of OTHER reasons, just not any of the ones you mentioned.
The point of my post was simply to highlight that there are simpler and better options for using a default browser than all the overlay chatter that is being tossed about. An overlay is complete overkill for what most people are actually looking to accomplish.
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JetStream Drenard
Black Fox Marauders
82
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 15:54:13 -
[236] - Quote
I think I understand your reasons. Instead of getting rid of it, would you consider having a trusted website list? Then allowing only those trusted websites to be used igb? It would seem this would take only the effort of some sort of allowed list, since the most useful igb websites already work just fine there.
There are so many, so useful websites that we all use every day. Dotlan and Dscan utilities like http://vserver.zap.de.com/intel. There are many others I am sure. Using overlays is a pita, and out of game browsers, would hurt some of those who only have one monitor.
I am only asking, because if it's possible, it would be so nice to retain. If you can't or won't, well at least I tried. |
Duke Garland
Solar Vista. The Anubis Accord
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 16:18:21 -
[237] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's been limping along for a while, but it's finally time to say au revoir to the In-game Browser. Read more details on why we're putting it out to pasture and how we'll handle URLs in the client in the future in this dev blog by CCP FoxFour.
Mind you I've not (and won't) read the entirety of this thread, rather skipped over it via DEV posts and quickly glancing over a couple other player's posts. What I get from the DEVblog that is linked is a lot of "wohoo CREST-fanboi" speak with very little reasoning why removing the IGB without any replacement is actually necessary. Other than "oh yea we didn't quite work on it for a long time". While I don't use the IGB every day I'm still using it very frequently and forcing me to tab out of game is quite annoying. And no, copy/pasteing links into IGB isn't much less annoying. At least have the decency to keep things the way they used to be with an opt in to default to open links in one's OOGB. Pretty please anyone? Ultimately to me the IGB is an element of immersion in the game and forcing me out of game while I wish to spend my time in the game is quite detrimental to my player eXperience and takes away from the "we create virtual worlds" (https://www.ccpgames.com/) slogan as well as "we don't believe in the word 'impossible'" (https://www.ccpgames.com/careers/) thingy.
CCP FoxFour wrote: An overlay is inadequate but the IGB was not? How in the world does that make sense? Pretty much every overlay out there with a browser is years ahead of the IGB. [...] That isn't really a simple task unfortunately. [...] True, but it is a matter of prioritization. So many things we want to do and a limited number of devs.
This further cements my impression that after neglecting work on the IGB for perhaps YEARS somebody in the chain simply chose to hit the killswitch rather than admitting (or probably even just considering) that not diverting proper ressources could've been a mistake. And as such taking means to correct that, however long that may take. I'm perfectly aware CCP is probably among the smaller DEV studios, but maybe somebody could consider doing LESS many things at the same time and instead focusing on thoroughly doing fewer things at once? I remember how the ship tiericide to me felt like proceeding smoothly while being tremendously well received - now the module tiericide feels like it trickles away with a number of module types still waiting to be adressed since a while...
CCP FoxFour wrote:We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.
I'm quite interested in actual numbers to back up those metrics. As with the announcement about the removal about the old camera (5.5% my butt) I somehow feel as if inactive accounts or secondary or tertiary characters from registered accounts are taken into such metrics whom naturally did/do not use either.
CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? You've said yourself that CCP in no way supports nor intends to incorporate any of them - despite being "years ahead" of the current IGB. On top of that CCP (naturally, I'll give you that) reserves the right to include any and all overlays into the list of bannable offenses, after pointing players towards them and creating but a new dependency.
And despite all that what was written and what I've read this really took the cake.
CCP FoxFour wrote: This food sucks.
VS
Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)
Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
Sorry, but are you quite sane in your mind? Did you forget about any sense or policy on how to deal with the community? The people that are responsible for your monthly wage (and those of your colleagues)? You're representing the WHOLE company you work for (CCP, as is quite visible to everyone due to the tag to the left of your username) and replies like that (be they intended to be taken as sarcasm or not) simply are not to be posted from any official employee. First and foremost this is a matter of showing respect to your customers, aside from this statements like that one cast a certain light on things that are probably not in general favor to CCP. |
Gray Hinken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.06.21 16:48:12 -
[238] - Quote
Why just remove a feature, without adding something? No IGB, and no support from dev's for overlays (and i don't like any).
GÇ£To fully immerse yourself in EVE Online select full screen mode...GÇ¥ But now I need a second-party browser running when playing EVE, so no full screen, only fixed window.
Please, CCP, bring me a new monitor. 27GÇ¥ with a support for 4K resolution, for example. |
Emrys Alf
Seagull Fleet DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:03:16 -
[239] - Quote
This is all after telling us all that overlays were illegal..
is the left hand talking to the right..
HyperFlareX wrote:Another overlay alternative would be Evolve's overlay.
As a Mac user this is hard... What do we use? Wormhole mapping wonder how that is going to work?
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
441
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:10:51 -
[240] - Quote
Emrys Alf wrote:This is all after telling us all that overlays were illegal.. is the left hand talking to the right.. HyperFlareX wrote:Another overlay alternative would be Evolve's overlay. As a Mac user this is hard... What do we use? Wormhole mapping wonder how that is going to work?
The security team already responded a few pages back with a link to a dev-blog that specifically calls out web-browser overlays as perfectly legal (along with most other overlay technologies). |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6041
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:11:28 -
[241] - Quote
Emrys Alf wrote:This is all after telling us all that overlays were illegal.. is the left hand talking to the right.. HyperFlareX wrote:Another overlay alternative would be Evolve's overlay. As a Mac user this is hard... What do we use? Wormhole mapping wonder how that is going to work?
Uh, you mean the one where the security team specifically calls out browser overlays as ok?
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/
Quote:We also do NOT consider it unfair if you use other comfort overlays which do not affect how the game is played. This includes overlays for chat and IM applications, the Steam overlay, and Web-Browser overlays for example.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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l0rd carlos
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
1283
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:12:16 -
[242] - Quote
Duke Garland please don't be silly. Thank you.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2589
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:16:31 -
[243] - Quote
The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works. Evolve does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it. Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page. However, the browser apparently does not keep .net addresses like evemaps.dotlan.net stored in the auto complete feature of the url bar, so another thing that makes this overlay less usable than the IGB
And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.
Any other suggestions? Or does someone care to try to explain how to get evolve or overwolf working properly (properly == retaining the functionality of the IGB)?[/quote]
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
Emrys Alf
Seagull Fleet DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:34:23 -
[244] - Quote
Later was said Pirates Little Helper is legal.. but it was started with Overlays are illegal. Streaming local of another char to the web and then overlaid is now legal if they used the web? Which makes the whole overlay thing a waste of time and words.
But I wonder what about us Mac users... we don't have overlays and even so an overlay is not the same as IGB..
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Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
13
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:53:32 -
[245] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Ahuraa wrote:I dont understand any of this.
You are removing a function in the game and then say you want third-party devs to take over with CREST.
I have googled and i have not found any software named Crest that does the function of checking Jita prices.
Where is this CREST you talk about all the time, are you creating this software into the game or are you contracting other to crate this Crest Software that i can use to check prices?
Wouldn't it be better to use the money you spent on Project discovery, that does nothing for the game, to keep up the IGB so we can use it for TRADING, THAT IS PART OF THE GAME? https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/viewer/ perhaps? CREST isn't a bit of software. It's an API for developers to use, to get access to data from CCP.
Could you please tell us if there is a possibility to use this CREST in-game without having to rely on any non-CCP supported out of game applications? |
Tamoyo Hoshi
SYNDAX CORPORATION Yulai Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 18:00:39 -
[246] - Quote
I understand the need to evolve and the reasons to schedule IGB for death.
But in a game so complex with such wide variation of players, removing it without a proper replacement solution is a big issue. Many tools are based on that. I'm not sure if you realize the impact of that on many players.
Using a normal browser will work for those with big screens and multiple monitors.
In my case I I have a single monitor, with 2 clients which I alternate in full screen mode (required since my graphic card won't work smooth in windowed mode);
Changing to another client or OOG browser takes valuable time if you are in space. Time enough to cause ship losses. So tools for hostile checking will be useless...
I tried Overwolf but it seens to work only in a single client, so it is not adequate also. Is there any other overlay that works on multiple clients?
Of course CCP won't endorse any overlay. But some guidance is required here. Unfortunately it is needed when you remove a feature with so many resources that made this game great.
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Farmer Johnson's Daughter
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 18:47:04 -
[247] - Quote
Does CCP actually wonder why devs wont touch this game with a ten foot poll?. Crest is honestly one of the worst things I've ever seen. The static dumps are ridiculously hard to work with as well (let me query 9 tables just to figure out what an item is made of).
I like the game overall but the lack of a decent api or a DB dump with a proper schema has kept me any many devs from even bothering to create sites and aps for it. (I know "we don't need you", "Good riddance", don't worry, don't care.)
Enjoy your time and keep pissing off devs, then wonder why your game has such crap 3rd party dev support.
Another nail in the coffin of EVE.
|
Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 19:22:40 -
[248] - Quote
Ok so the IGB is not your best work But most of the time it works There`s alot of ppl using it continuously when they are playing (including myself)
And now your planing to just remove it without anything out the we can use instead (and overwolf sucks bigtime so iam not even thinking that way)
Why
Seriously put the dev`s on something useful and leave the IGB alone
K
.
|
Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
27
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 19:49:17 -
[249] - Quote
Farmer Johnson's Daughter wrote: Enjoy your time and keep pissing off devs, then wonder why your game has such crap 3rd party dev support.
EVE has some of the best third-party dev support in the entire gaming industry. Sure, there aren't modders like Elder Scrolls and similar games have, but that's because EVE is an MMO. The type and quality of software that EVE has available for it is absolutely top-notch compared to what exists for pretty much every other game. |
Tass Caffington
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 19:54:16 -
[250] - Quote
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote: Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Because There aren't any for Mac users?
pretty much this.
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
"We're not happy until you're content!"
|
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Leo Apocrypha
Senescence
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 20:25:19 -
[251] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours? I want to start off by saying, this post concerns me. I've never seen such a hostile response from a dev to someone just for posting their opinion. Especially when theres so many posts of people completely over-dramatizing the effect this will have on their gameplay experience. That being said, my faith in this change not having a negative effect is derived from my experience with the shutdown of EVElopedia. (EVEuni and Brave's site were far from being "more complete" resources in my experience but thats a whole other topic) Removing tools and resources without a viable alternative is always going to be frustrating for the players, and frankly thats what has happened, and what seems is going to happen in both instances. The solutions listed so far (as much as you would like them to be) are not and will not be viable alternatives to IGB So far what I've seen is 1. Use windowed mode or alt tab The loss of in game awareness with this "solution" is far more than enough to put me off (even in windowed mode the lack of screen space will have a negative effect) 2. Use a second screen Its mostly been edgelords, elitists, and apologists posting this, but obviously it is not going to be possible (or desirable) for a lot of people including myself. 3. Use an overlay This is the best option so far, however that overlay would have to have very specific features and to my knowledge (I'm not an expert in overlays nor do I intend to become one just to fix the loss of IGB) no overlay with all of those features exists. Most importantly, it can't lock out in-game controls like steam overlay does, which from what I've read in other posts really only leaves overwolf. However unless they add bookmarks to the browser and let me choose to open any in-game links in the overlay instead of with the regular browser it will be far less convenient than just using a regular browser, and the problems with that are listed above. So from now on lets just assume anyone with a short, simple post like Sheeana's are in agreement with at least some of what I've written above, as no matter what it is you do in eve these reasons are applicable. I'll end by saying that this is my favorite MMO and that no other is worth playing in my opinion, but this game is clicky, waity, and hard enough as is without removing convient tools, resources and of course, the ability to browse dank memes. |
Jiradus Tazinas
EVE University Ivy League
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 20:27:38 -
[252] - Quote
nezroy wrote:Jiradus Tazinas wrote:This is not a solution for individuals who are NOT running windows. The FORM of the solution is, however. "Always on top" is literally a right-click option for Gnome/GDK users already. (In fact, ANY form of customized window management is about a million times easier on a Linux platform in general, so the issue is completely moot there). Approximately 15 seconds of searching for OS X always on top options yielded multiple possibilities. Check out afloat, for instance. ...
I'm glad that there are solutions that you as a non-windows/Linux user can use.
Afloat requires disabling system security protections to prevent malware from writing to system protected areas.. (SIP to be specific)
I haven't seen any options that work without requiring that the user disable SIP, but I'm game to try out available alternatives. |
Malou Hashur
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
94
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 20:31:05 -
[253] - Quote
"whenever you click on a link in the client you will be warned that the link will open in an external browser.
You can choose to accept this and open the external browser or cancel. The dialog also has the option to remember your choice."
If I have selected to remember this choice, but now want to revert to being asked each time, which is the setting I need to reset ?
CCP Philosophy ==>>
If it works, break it. If itGÇÖs broken, leave it and break something else.
Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
|
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
485
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 20:40:08 -
[254] - Quote
Postman wrote:CCP once again missed the point completely. Sites as Dotlan and the old EVElopedia are used almost always ingame. First they remove the EVElopedia, then they nerf Dotlan use. Good thing I already cancelled my subscriptions because of vacation, now I have zero reason to come back after. Here is a idea for the next big thing to remove from the game CCP: the actual client. Its probably to much work to maintain that and using CREST you don't need it anymore anyway, seeing how magical that CREST is.
As customers I do not believe we get the same value we used to get out of our $ then before.
CCP has scraped the in-game-browser, evelopedia, tech 3 cruisers still need to be balanced, pay-to-win at skill training time, Ambulation is dead, after years we finally get new citadels but no Modular design
This devaluation of bang for your buck could be because the Company does not take Inflation into account
Regards, a Freelancer
ps: source https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bidding-farewell-to-the-in-game-browser/
Quote:Browsers advance at an incredible speed and maintaining them and keeping whatever browser is in the client up to date takes a lot of effort. This is development effort that we would rather commit to projects that make EVE more awesome with additional CREST functionality and more feature work.
Dust 514 to PC is still ONLY is ink on a piece of paper imho
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow Test Alliance Please Ignore
1800
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 21:09:46 -
[255] - Quote
I've been playing EVE since Trinity. And much of that time using Linux.
CCP, what about Linux players? There are issues with GNOME3 and MATE where leaving the EVE window (alt tabbing, changing virtual desktops) causes EVE to stop receiving mouse input when it regains focus. The IGB wasn't perfect but it did work most of the time.
I'm going to have to play in windowed mode all the time now. I use out of game resources too frequently to lose the IGB.
I had enough issues getting EVE to work with your new launcher (why did we even need the launcher anyway? In-game updates on the login screen never failed for me on Linux or Windows).
Due to Microsoft's recent, bizarre, decisions regarding telemetry Windows 10, 8, and 7 are no longer viable options due to telemetry collection. EVE is one of the few good games that worked consistently on Linux for as long as I can remember. But it seems like every patch makes it less and less compatible with WINE.
Heck, the new camera lags like crazy compared to the old one. I've started getting periodic stuttering ever since it was introduced.
Things are only impossible until they are not.
|
Eugene Dupont
Barrel Roll Squad Soviet-Union
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 21:27:50 -
[256] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
OK, now watch this -
I wanna click some url ingame, AND i need it open in small window on top of my client. I dont want it closed or minimized when i play eve, and i need it stay on top until its no longer needed. Having bookmarks also sounds good.
In other words - can you actually show us at least one overlay that works as described? |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1646
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 22:14:37 -
[257] - Quote
I have removed an offensive post. Please keep it civil and within the rules!
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
DUBLYUR
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 22:57:02 -
[258] - Quote
RIP IGB - RIP CCP |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
273
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 23:12:41 -
[259] - Quote
This is a sad day. A sad day indeed.
Eugene Dupont wrote:I wanna click some url ingame, AND i need it open in small window on top of my client. I dont want it closed or minimized when i play eve, and i need it stay on top until its no longer needed. Having bookmarks also sounds good.
In other words - can you actually show us at least one overlay that works as described? More displays? I used to play EVE with 12.. Cut down to 4 now, no thanks to NVIDIA (dicks).
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Bain Bloodguard
Wings of Destiny
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 23:14:40 -
[260] - Quote
Taking away my in game browser ? does my subscription cost go down ? or do I take my credit card number away from CCP ? of all the bad ideas and changes Ive seen in Eve over the years, this one is going to make me leave.... no you cant have my stuff ! will give it away to someone else |
|
Eugene Dupont
Barrel Roll Squad Soviet-Union
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 23:32:59 -
[261] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:More displays? I used to play EVE with 12.. Cut down to 4 now, no thanks to NVIDIA (***** ************** **********).
Actually i was going to buy 2 extra displays, for a long time... But for 3 account, not for two + browser! |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
303
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 23:41:13 -
[262] - Quote
LOL! Given the fact that "devs" around this place is using the term quite loosely: If it's beyond our bare-bones minimum salary allotment, we cut it loose. If it can be built quickly and cheaply, and painted to look cool, then let's get on it right away!
Here's to the stationary ships! May they sit there motionless and...do whatever! Yay!
Three things set EVE apart...the real EVE, that is...er, was....the notepad, the calculator and the BROWSER.
Like Meatloaf said, "Two outta three ain't bad." Wayttaminnit...Meatloaf SUCKS!
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
Eugene Dupont
Barrel Roll Squad Soviet-Union
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 00:11:43 -
[263] - Quote
Well, lets hear what CCP FoxFour have to say about his/her overlays |
purebegoid
IM A COP YOU IDIOT
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 00:48:07 -
[264] - Quote
In the dev blog it says:
Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so. The only reason that we are not removing the IGB with the release tomorrow is to give all those developers who have tools created that utilize it time to move their projects over to an external browser.
Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so.
What again? There is no mentioning of not using the in game browser in the dev blog up until that point.
To me that reads like the initial draft of the blog had some mentioning of why not to use the in game browser but has since been removed in later drafts before posting. This whole thing stinks of a cover up. What are you not telling us CCP? Why are you censoring your dev blogs? Why are you FORCING us to out of game browsers to look at fleet porn? Now we have to remember to clear cache and cookies god damn it.
|
Drabbin Mishi
Excognative Ignorance Short Bus Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 01:04:39 -
[265] - Quote
Sorry if this has been asked, but how do I cause EVE to send my links to the Overwolf client (which is working great for TS3), instead of my desktop Firefox? |
Eugene Dupont
Barrel Roll Squad Soviet-Union
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 01:37:10 -
[266] - Quote
Ah, there's a catch - you can't I hoped CCP FoxFour will say that, but... |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
306
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:13:10 -
[267] - Quote
Drabbin Mishi wrote:Sorry if this has been asked, but how do I cause EVE to send my links to the Overwolf client (which is working great for TS3), instead of my desktop Firefox? Short answer? You don't. You might try dragging them into the notepad if your new browser can pick them up from that.. I just downloaded that thing. I'm not sure I trust those people, though. They look like your typical deluge with clicktraps folks.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
302
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:21:27 -
[268] - Quote
And new FireFox ignores all embedded color profiles... so all pictures are displayed as sRGB...
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1127354
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Jin O'harlen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:27:06 -
[269] - Quote
This is taking something very unique away from this game. This is taking such a big part of the immersion away from the game. Stop trying to make shooters, put down the VR goggles, and get back to making the best online game ever made. You guys did that before, remember? |
Bawb Zennshinagas
Pelican.
24
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:48:31 -
[270] - Quote
Haha, screw your color accuracy. -CCP as they continue to push ********, unthought out, unusable overlay solutions.
Browsers are in a pretty sad state these days. So much feature creep, too little usefulness. |
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Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 05:38:51 -
[271] - Quote
Bawb Zennshinagas wrote:Haha, screw your color accuracy. -CCP as they continue to push ********, unthought out, unusable overlay solutions. Browsers are in a pretty sad state these days. So much feature creep, too little usefulness.
That's why I'm using pale moon and vivaldi. But that doesn't really fix the problems with CREST not working properly nor issues for people with one monitor.
On-top functionality for a normal browser might actually be a lot better solution than any kind of weird overlay browser as they all look like malware peddling sites to be honest. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
97
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 06:37:35 -
[272] - Quote
1. You need the tools you can access through the IGB, so removing it you remove some functionality from EVE! 2. Why not simply make the browser selectable by the the user but keep the window management etc. in EVE. Add some skins for the popular browser and everyone can set up his favorite browser to work as the IGB.
Overlays may work or not but they add another layer to handle for new players. CCP should work on INTEGRATING other tools INTO EVE and not add layer upon layer on top of EVE. Why not make a universal way to access things like dotlan or EFT from within EVE? Maybe through the browser, which one it the choice of the player, and a link? Add some requirements for the design to it so that EFT looks like it's part of EVE.
Take a look at this list of tools more or less needed for EVE: EFT Pirats little helper/Tripwire dotlan skillplaner TS3 / mumble and now some overlay insert x tools that I missed
You want more immersion into the game and add 3rd party tools to it?????? Start integrating things not cutting things out. There are no reasons why you have to use external tools to access things like dotlan or EFT. I'm sure the developer would be happy if they could integrate at least a link in EVE so you can acess dotlan as quickly as the ingame map. Or you choose EFT over the fitting screen. That would ADD functionality to EVE and not cut something out.
I can understand the reason for removing the IGB but search for a adequate replacement and Crest does not work because it offers no way to view the datas. |
Blackstorms
Gygax-Arneson Imaginations
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 09:39:58 -
[273] - Quote
As a player I'm actually pretty bummed that the IGB is being removed. It's a great tool and most importantly, it's fast and convenient, which allows a more immersive and enjoyable experience while playing the game. Perhaps one of the overlays can be a suitable replacement but honestly alt-tabbing and even a second monitor are inferior to using the IGB. There are times and places where you have to be constantly aware of what's going on around you and being able to pull up the IGB while keeping an eye on local or that gate can mean the difference between winning and dying. Moreover, the browser and the Eve related websites become part of the game.
The IGB was never presented as or operated as a fully functional modern browser. I think that it's great at its role and if people can understand and accept that it's intended for a limited range of use related to game play, then there will be no complaining about missing features. I remember when the IGB was released and people complained that it didn't support Flash. So while I have never watched a YouTube video on the IGB, I have over the course of my career used it to:
a) Look up game information and ship fittings when I was a noob at E-Uni b) Look up the wormhole system I was in and w-space info in general when I blundered in there as a noob by accident c) Used it in null sec to pull up maps so I could navigate the jump bridges and get around d) Used it in null during long tower shoots to keep my sanity e) Used it in pvp and gate camps to pass along target k-boards, k-mails in general, evewho info, amusing gifs, and more f) Look up market information when I was either shopping or selling something g) Went to the Eve Online store and bought merchandise ;)
The list probably goes on, but nope, I never watched one YouTube video. I have no complaints about that either. The bottom line is that IGB is fast and efficient in a pvp environment; alt-tabbing will eventually kill you and a second monitor still requires you to take your eyes off of the screen. In other areas of the game it is still incredibly convenient and allowing you to access information from inside the client allows a longer and more consistent Eve experience if not a more immersive one.
I really think you should re-examine the position that the IGB is an optional piece of the UI that can be simply discarded "to make Eve more awesome". You know what's awesome in Eve? The ability to open up a browser inside the game and use it as you're playing. No, really. It's actually an awesome thing. I say this with complete seriousness -- you guys could've charged for having access to the IGB as a addon to the game client and people, myself included would've happily handed over money for it. If you guys said that you're dropping the free IGB but now there will be a reasonably priced and supported paid version instead, there are many Eve players who would go for it. Look at the ridiculously priced stuff in this game that people spend their money on; it's not hard to imagine that people would buy something they found useful and/or aided their gameplay. I think you should look at the IGB as an asset and not a liability. |
Astevon
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 09:52:47 -
[274] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours? "Your post sucks."
VS
"Any chance you could elaborate on how this change affects you? This could be useful to us. :)"
Previous Main: Astecus | Creator of the Anti-ganking channel, Anti-ganking.net and AstralServices.net
|
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 10:06:54 -
[275] - Quote
purebegoid wrote:In the dev blog it says: Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so. The only reason that we are not removing the IGB with the release tomorrow is to give all those developers who have tools created that utilize it time to move their projects over to an external browser. Quote:Again however we must advise against using the IGB if you can do so. What again? There is no mentioning of not using the in game browser in the dev blog up until that point. To me that reads like the initial draft of the blog had some mentioning of why not to use the in game browser but has since been removed in later drafts before posting. This whole thing stinks of a cover up. What are you not telling us CCP? Why are you censoring your dev blogs? Why are you FORCING us to out of game browsers to look at fleet porn? Now we have to remember to clear cache and cookies god damn it.
HAVE NO FEAR Private Browsing is here! Corporal punishment, major damage and general mayhem may also be present.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPz-q_gT5A ) |
Drabbin Mishi
Excognative Ignorance Short Bus Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 12:13:09 -
[276] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Drabbin Mishi wrote:Sorry if this has been asked, but how do I cause EVE to send my links to the Overwolf client (which is working great for TS3), instead of my desktop Firefox? Short answer? You don't. You might try dragging them into the notepad if your new browser can pick them up from that.. I just downloaded that thing. I'm not sure I trust those people, though. They look like your typical deluge with clicktraps folks.
I thought that I had had this working in the past. But I guess that whatever the EVE client just did to prevent the IGB and force an external one, is also making it bypass the Overwolf browser. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6041
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 13:06:07 -
[277] - Quote
Something which I've had pointed out to me, which may be of use for mac users:
http://heliumfloats.com/
Floating browser window, with customizable translucency, and it doesn't intercept clicks through it (when translucent)
I'm not a mac user, but it may be of interest to people.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1511
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 13:35:31 -
[278] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Like Meatloaf said, "Two outta three ain't bad." Wayttaminnit...Meatloaf SUCKS!
Shut your mouth. Everyone loves Meatloaf.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
|
Cherubael DemonPrince
Regicide and Sororitas
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 13:39:00 -
[279] - Quote
This what happens when u take more PMs and less Programmers... |
Tass Caffington
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 15:02:45 -
[280] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Something which I've had pointed out to me, which may be of use for mac users: http://heliumfloats.com/ Floating browser window, with customizable translucency, and it doesn't intercept clicks through it (when translucent) I'm not a mac user, but it may be of interest to people.
Tested it. It minimises the eve client when eve runs in fullscreen. Thus, it's better to use the default browser. Helium is no alternative when running eve at fullscreen.
but thanks for the suggestion!
o7
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
"We're not happy until you're content!"
|
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Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 16:30:39 -
[281] - Quote
Has anyone found an overlay that doesn't have serious drawbacks compared to the gimpy but still enormously useful IGB ?
If this doesn't exist, then what's wrong with just keeping the IGB for those of us who find it quite useful on a daily basis?
You could hide it from the NeoCom for new & existing players if you think the IGB is some kind of embarrassment, and put a check box to use the IGB in the Options screen under "Old Unsupported Features".
So if people decide themselves to turn it on and use it, they know what they see is what they get and presumably won't send any (or send much fewer) support requests regarding it.
|
Farmer Johnson's Daughter
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 16:52:54 -
[282] - Quote
Oliver Ward wrote:Farmer Johnson's Daughter wrote: Enjoy your time and keep pissing off devs, then wonder why your game has such crap 3rd party dev support.
EVE has some of the best third-party dev support in the entire gaming industry. Sure, there aren't modders like Elder Scrolls and similar games have, but that's because EVE is an MMO. The type and quality of software that EVE has available for it is absolutely top-notch compared to what exists for pretty much every other game.
HAHA ...no. It's actually the opposite. Take one look at the db schema and most devs have the same thought id imagine: "Is this a joke? An April fools day prank. It cant actually be structured like this can it?"
As I said before I shouldn't need to query about 3-7 different tables in a db just to find out what something is made of. Honestly it looks like to me that the db was started back in the day when someone really had no idea on how to do it properly, and stuck with the legacy code/schema, the new devs are doing the best they can.
As a dev myself I understand what it's like to inherit a crap db, api etc.
If you want gigantic 3rd party support make it easier for devs to work with the data. That's my .02 |
bucegi
Imperial Dreams
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 18:12:43 -
[283] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Sheeana Harb wrote:I will be very frank here:
The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.
I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away. This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?
Yo FoxFour, you don't respect the paying customers do you? Anyone can see that reading between your lines........ Anyway, glad to see how many players use the IGB. Could be something wrong with CCP metrics? :) |
Tass Caffington
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
8
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 18:45:01 -
[284] - Quote
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?
hmmmmm.....
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
"We're not happy until you're content!"
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6041
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 19:31:26 -
[285] - Quote
Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
406
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 20:08:31 -
[286] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6536713#post6536713
Certainly headed that way
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MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 02:53:45 -
[287] - Quote
I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.
Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?
- Report when a character logs in to the game client - Return the name and type of ship being flown - Report if a character is docked or not
Without the above we lose the ability to: - Track online vs offline pilots. - Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details. - Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations. - And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.
The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.
Pretty please? |
Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
8
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 05:08:53 -
[288] - Quote
[quote=Leo Apocrypha I want to start off by saying, this post concerns me. Not only does it make you the person that says "no, pick the nuts out yourself." (which doesn't really solve the problem) I've never seen such a hostile response from a dev to someone just for posting their opinion. Especially when theres so many posts of people completely over-dramatizing the effect this will have on their gameplay experience. [/quote]
I agree the post may be perceived as a little hostile, but CCP devs are just people after all. But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Poor CCP devs take tons of **** from us passionate players (including myself on more than one occasion). Be thankful you have access to them via the forums and other media. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
100
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 06:38:55 -
[289] - Quote
Why not take a total different approach? Keeping up the browser is too much work for CCP. Okay! Why does the IGB have to adapt? Websites are changing. Okay, but do you need to access such websites??????
The IGB is for browsing sites connected to eve. So why not just whitelisting pages that use the EVE API + some wikis and put restriction on them that the IGB can handle them? I don't need youtube videos in the IGB or news sides.
Don't change the IGB change the websites and the sites and whitelist what the IGB can handle instead of trying to keep up with web development. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 08:32:11 -
[290] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.
Except that tons of people are reporting issues with that part of CREST (for me it works once in a blue moon). As long as CREST is unreliable as it seems to be right now the tool is dead.
And all that still doesn't solve the issues of, crazy but we still love them, fullscreen users. |
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Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 10:24:50 -
[291] - Quote
Hi o/
I just wondered what will happen to bookmarks currently saved in the IGB? Will they be removed/not accessible when it finally ceases to be?
Should I be moving them to a in game note, or out of game browser bookmarks (I use Firefox) for future use etc...
Thanks in advance for any clarity on this matter. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6045
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 12:02:49 -
[292] - Quote
MicroNova wrote:I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.
Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?
- Report when a character logs in to the game client - Return the name and type of ship being flown - Report if a character is docked or not
Without the above we lose the ability to: - Track online vs offline pilots. - Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details. - Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations. - And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.
The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.
Pretty please?
The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)
With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)
The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 14:14:51 -
[293] - Quote
Maybe an over simplistic question: I use the IGB to register my folks to our website via AuthOrange. What would be the typical work around to this?
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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
284
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 14:43:11 -
[294] - Quote
Tracking your characterGÇÖs location
I think this function would be a handy tool for all Capsuleer's but for Bounty Hunter's especially.
After learning a Locator Skill each Capsuleer could add an additional five other Capsuleer's to their Locator Service. The TI skill would only allow up to 25 Capsuleer's to be tracked at level five. The total tracking distance would be ten jumps at level five.
If a Tracker is moving through systems and has other pilots in their Locator Service the pilot would appear on the Locator Service Screen. Once the Tracker moves out of the range of the pilot the pilots location disappears from the screen until the Tracker moves into range again.
With the TII skill the distance of the service is increased by 2 systems for a total range of 10 systems plus the original 10 TI systems giving the service a total of 20 jumps to track a person with. At level five for the TII skill and additional five pilots are able to be added for a total of 30 pilots that can be tracked at any one time.
Although the system is brilliant and genius to say the least on my part but there is a catch. When ever a pilot in the service comes into tracking range of the Locator Service a bill is issued to the Pilot for 100,000 ISK per half hour per name that the Tracker comes into contact with a name on their list. So if there are two pilots on the Tracker's list it would cost the Tracker 200,000 ISK for having the Service locate the names on the list and then 400,000 ISK for an hour and so forth.
Another drawback is that after five minutes of coming into contact with a name on the Tracker's list the contact is notified that they are being tracked by someone. The tracked could then pay a fee of 100,000 ISK to find out who is tracking them.
The Locator Service could be a way to replace the Locator Agents that have become obsolete given the fact that a star gate registers who comes into and out of system that is kept in a local database that is accessible to all except for those who pay to keep their names out of the main stream.
Third party services are great but need to be tied into an icon on the main GUI. |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 15:46:03 -
[295] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:Tracking your characterGÇÖs location.
But isn't that planned to go away with the player built intelligence station? Where we would charge our own rates to use a locator agent? |
Belagra SiQ
Gulfonodi Gerstensaft GmbH Worlds United Fedo Force
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 18:11:22 -
[296] - Quote
With the IGB it was so easy to track my location for my own local tools: 0. Open port 8080 1. Let IGB execute CCPEVE.requestTrust("http://localhost:8080/") Let IGB execute "function delay() { jQuery.get("/update"); setTimeout(function() { delay(); }, 30000); }; delay();" 2. Server parses HTML headers from GET Request to /update 3. Profit
How is that suppose to work with the CREST stuff? Anyone got location tracking working with a local application?
|
MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
14
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 03:35:28 -
[297] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)
Actually it does, by default you can't be logged into the IGB unless you are logged into the game, which is not your point, but there is currently a way to tell who is on or offline with the IGB. I can see niche use cases for needing to worry about spoofing, but that's a minor concern. What's important is seeing who's there and who isn't.
Steve Ronuken wrote: With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)
That's certainly a workaround, but wouldn't it be simpler to just provide the data directly? Why add an additional layer of requiring them to be in a fleet? And did this get implemented? Best I can tell it was in progress but it was superseded by something more important.
Steve Ronuken wrote: The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.
Delightful. |
Telistra
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 04:27:18 -
[298] - Quote
Remove a possible security issue that could cost money to maintain. Remove old code that will cost money to maintain Move to a system that players can use with 3rd parties that will not cost money for CCP to maintain outside of CREST.
Money is awesome.
|
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2124
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 13:48:44 -
[299] - Quote
Zar Myx wrote:But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Exactly this.
Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.
However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them.
Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
|
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Cade Windstalker
451
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 14:37:04 -
[300] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Zar Myx wrote:But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Exactly this. Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about. However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them. Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
Heck, I think you can apply a broader version of this idea to any change thread CCP makes. Well considered feedback, pointing out potential edge cases, and anything backed up by math or hard evidence will always trump "I don't like this, I think it's bad, WTF CCP!!??!?!" |
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Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 16:37:26 -
[301] - Quote
Well again, I think many would accept having this feature left in but as an option one would need to check under "Old unsupported features" (turned off by default). Float over text "These features are no longer supported and are provided As Is. "
Outside of that, are there NO 3rd party companies which provide browser functionallity for games that can be opened in an in-game window?
Or are there such companies and they are just too expensive to licence from?
|
mulgrew Malukker
Weyland Mulgrew Corporation Dominatus Atrum Mortis
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 16:45:24 -
[302] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Zar Myx wrote:But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Exactly this. Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about. However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them. Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
"Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature" yes i agree with this
"Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" agree again
so as a paying customer i have become used to having the IGB and use it for a variety of tools everyday i login, these have become integral to my game play style, along with many people in this thread (also i live in wormholes so a good number of tools ). so if you are taking the IGB out of the game and forcing a paying customer to swap his game style to a way i dont want eg, alt tabbing out of game trying to get overlays to work which they dont when you have multiple clients over many screens or just not having these tools altogther in some cases (siggy), then thats your choice as owners of the game. my choice as the paying customer and not getting the service i have become used to as it being altered in a way i dont like is to not pay for this service anymore, today you lost active acounts from a long time player
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Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 19:05:42 -
[303] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:
Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.
However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them.
Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.
Ultimately you're selling and maintaining a product.
A major selling point of products is convenience which you're removing and suggesting bandaid solutions for a very convenient feature (atm).
I'm sure many of us appreciate that you are doing this months out to find all the glaring holes pointed out by customers. However, so far many of the solutions suggested by the Devs are finding little traction. They either require significant troubleshooting, purchasing additional monitors, only work for PC and not Mac, or don't work at all and have no professional support.
I'd say just be prepared to push this back if you can't find much more solid and reliable substitute. It's not looking good at the moment. The alternative is customer displeasure and loss of subscriptions due to declining convenience.
Thanks for all your work on this Devs.
|
Hong Hu
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
26
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 19:51:41 -
[304] - Quote
Have any of the Eve news sites reached out to the DOTLAN, various mapper and market devs (those outside of CCP) to see if they are working through this? Player reaction from those who are only users seems less significant to me than the reactions of those who are creators of these important 3rd party programs.
Thank you for the continued work by CCP. The rationale for eliminating the IGB seems legit. |
Sheba Moonblood Audeles
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 11:10:05 -
[305] - Quote
Hello all.
I want to be blunt here.
Don't care to be nice.
Its simple really.
I do not have time to PLEX. I work a job that in no way allows me the time to do it during the day.
I do not have time on weekends to PLEX, thus I spend quite a bit of REAL money.
Money that goes into YOUR pockets. So I feel I have the right to gripe.
I am NOT a tech head. I wish I were. But its a long way to get there. I have used the IGB since I started playing.
Well, since I first learned of it.
And guess what else I learned simply by reading this thread?
It seems to me that a lot of customers will be left in the lurch, due to your "solution" not working for them.
Your "solution" seems to say put the burden of figuring out something else on you, something that we said we will not support.
Something that we will not develop, and if it goes wrong, well, its that we do not support thing again.
Fox Fours comments have been smashingly engaging. A wonderful window into how things are at the moment.
Its your game tis true. I respect that.
But in the end, I wonder if the end is nigh? |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 13:00:33 -
[306] - Quote
So where is the problem in implementing a simple ingame "web image viewer" ? Or where is the problem in going back to a basic IGB just like the one before the current one, where it was intentionally limited? I remember the nerdy times when I onlined in Eve only to check my webmails through the ingame browser. Simply because I could.
if I have to translate the official CCP responses so far, it goes like this:
"We don't have enough staff to work on a better ingame browser so we suggest to use a third party solution"
Let's be real here, any recent "deprecation" of yours has been because of the lack of will to maintain something. Or the lack of time to maintain something, which means you would need to hire more people. Hiring more people means spending more money, which you obviously can't, based on the choices you made since 2014. If you chose to replace it, then the solution either has been worse than before, or you are still "working on it", aka starmap, opportunities, etc.
Your idea is to outsource as much work as possible You keep milking the efforts of playerbase without giving them any rewards for being an integral part of keeping your game alive.
Eve is not an "old game that is scheduled to die". Eve can live free and happy for many years to come, but not based on choices like this, and not based on lacking integration of meaningful and unique content. I wonder when you wake up and realize you've been digging your own grave since years, and the only reason that players keep at eve is the social contacts and the feels of nostalgia they established. The amount of people I know who only use eve as a chatroom grow by the month. |
LoneRider
Com-Star Off The Reservation.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 13:13:46 -
[307] - Quote
I had a web software that could track members and fleet mates using the ingame browser, without the need for any authentication stuff (like API). They just had to use a link posted from the fleet commander, open it in ingame browser and were tracked and displayed on the commander's map until they closed the ingame browser. I suppose that is DEAD now - i don't see a way to implement that using the CREST stuff - each user would have to make some kind of authentification, which makes this completely unusable. Or...
...is there any other way to access other peoples' locations in a way that they dont have to do API authentification? People have to be able to "authenticate" my application to access their position with just one click, and revoke that with another click. Is that possible without the IGB? |
Noxious89123
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 13:47:22 -
[308] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay? Because they are crap and difficult to work with. You need an extra set of shortcut combinations to use Overwolf (as if Eve itself doesn't rely on enough of those!) and it also either gets in the way, or is difficult to find when you want it.
I appreciate the reasons for getting to get rid of the IGB, and they are good ones, but I think you have grossly underestimated how important and useful the IGB is to a large number of people.
I use it a lot, and having to minimize the game to check something online is a huge pain in the ass.
You can't simly minimize the game at any time to do that. If I do it whilst running Incursions as a group I'll get someone killed. If I do it whilst in dangerous space, I'll probably get myself killed. If I do it whilst mooching around in highsec, well i'm not really even playing the game at that point...
You need to provide a better alternate solution, not just say "use an overlay, and if it doesn't work, that's your problem".
And seriously, why was the EVElopedia removed? That was useful as hell, way more friendly than trying to use the market and show info windows for the same purpose.
Regarding the mapper for wormholes, why the heck doesn't the game have something similar built in? If you're a wormhole noob and don't know about the mapper, you're stuffed.
I have a colleague at work who, as a new player, gave up on wormholes because he kept getting lost and killed; you can't expect new players to know there is a third party mapper, let alone know if it's safe to use or even allowed.
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Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 14:29:08 -
[309] - Quote
Ah right, thanks Noxious for pointing it out, I forgot to tackle this one:
CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
- Third party applications cannot ensure compatibility across all platforms and operating systems as both, CCP and 3rd party code continues to develop forward.
- Third party applications can (and have) caused issues which are different on a case-to-case basis per computer with selected programs.
- Asking someone to use a third party program ONLY for eve online, when they don't use it otherwise, is absolutely laughable and disingenuous. It's bad enough you forced your UI design choices onto people, and now you ask us to install something we don't even want or need? Pathetic.
- Third party overlays can (and have) caused performance hits and decreased the responsiveness of a system. Depending on the system that is used, it can either make or break the game.
- Third party programs can have security leaks just like that, where you require them to fix the issue. So it remains at their discretion when it is fixed, not yours. This basically means you cause a liability for the customer since you have wilfully outsourced the "problem" to be fixed by someone else.
- I am spending real world resources to enjoy a game of spaceships and to have you keep that going on with all the conveniences and fun things happening in between. I do not spend real world resources so you can rely on the resources of someone else if you could do it just as well.
- Using overlays does not guarantee a streamlined experience. The IGB was always in the style and colour of what I chose for Eve. That will be utterly broken when using something else and it will be a jarring experience, each and every time.
Bottom line: There is a difference in installing a VCredist to allow a program to simply run based on those code libraries OR using a program that eats a substantial amount of resources and causes extra issues only to continue using an intuitive and self-evident feature that has been in the game for so long.
Ultimately I simply despise the idea on principle that you keep outsourcing responsibility. I pay for health insurance willingly because I always get what I need, when I need it. I do not pay for health insurance to tell me what I should do privately to fix a body part of mine that I came to understand as "self evident" when they have all the options to treat me. If I lose an arm, I will receive a prosthetic. They don't tell me to build one myself and point me to youtube videos on how to make one. Same principle here.
You don't have enough staff? Hire more or hire better. You can't do that? Make more money. You can't make more money? Well maybe it's because people got fed up with your decisions you did in the past two years that had NOTHING to do with gamemechanics so they decided to stop supporting you.
Make a poll and look who uses the IGB for what. Put it in the launcher. I would not be surprised if looking at images is the #1 use. So what about creating a webshell that is so limited that it only displays images and no other fancy stuff? It sure worked in the past. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6049
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 16:21:22 -
[310] - Quote
LoneRider wrote:I had a web software that could track members and fleet mates using the ingame browser, without the need for any authentication stuff (like API). They just had to use a link posted from the fleet commander, open it in ingame browser and were tracked and displayed on the commander's map until they closed the ingame browser. I suppose that is DEAD now - i don't see a way to implement that using the CREST stuff - each user would have to make some kind of authentification, which makes this completely unusable. Or...
...is there any other way to access other peoples' locations in a way that they dont have to do API authentification? People have to be able to "authenticate" my application to access their position with just one click, and revoke that with another click. Is that possible without the IGB?
Only the fleet boss needs to auth to get access to all fleet member locations. Logging in with SSO, to a site to track fleet details.
https://github.com/fuzzysteve/fleetTracker is a very very basic example of how you can use it.
(There's a slight delay between actions, and them showing up in the results. Each system reports who's in it to the fleet node, once every 30 seconds. those 30 seconds can be slightly off set from each other, depending on the system)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Luthien Niell
60 Squadron
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 16:49:20 -
[311] - Quote
What is IGB? Why it ends? |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 17:41:18 -
[312] - Quote
CCP, please make a poll to see who wants to keep / uses the IGB (maybe have some comments section to ask people how/why they are using it). Put some real alternatives there aside the IGB and see what people choose. |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 17:45:18 -
[313] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:This food sucks. VS Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :) I don't think the analogy works that way. What I see most people talk about in this topic is neither of these statements. It's more something like this;
"I go to this nice restaurant. It has that one side dish which is really popular. Sure we know it uses some flavour enhancers and it has reheated ingredients that one just took from a supermarket shelf, but the way they put it together is really nice and it goes well with a lot of main dishes. So it's awesome nonetheless. Now I heard this nice restaurant is not going to make that side dish any more, which makes a lot of people sad, and there isn't really anything like it. That restaurant has been stating though, they will still serve KINDA the same thing, only with different flavours, but it's not inhouse. Every time someone orders it, they have to call some catering service or whatnot which brings that over. So they're not even really touching it, or have anything to do with it, they just slap it on the plate, and still get money because of the main dish they serve you. That doesn't sit well with many people and it doesn't really make that much of a sense. That restaurant made other poor decisions in interior decoration and other stuff, so less and less people visit it. Maybe it's time to find a new restaurant."
CCP, we know you didn't make that side dish yourself. We know you put existing ingredients and put them together, but it was at least YOU who put them together to go along very fitting with the main dish.
It's okay that you substitute things with CREST (provided it always works, I can't tell, only see what other community developers post, so it's definitely not so rosy) but it isn't convenient. And that's the point. Why do I need tons of third party installations when everything else just worked through the IGB ?
I tell you what, how about you are going to INTEGRATE all these things properly into the actual game engine? How about creating an interface which interacts live in a building-block manner with crest? How about you PAY the people who do your work already, to have things put into the game client itself? Oh wait... that effort thing again... so screw the customers and screw the community efforts because they do all that stuff for free anyway, so let's keep milking them dry for all they're worth. |
Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 02:46:35 -
[314] - Quote
Considering how important the Meta Game is to Eve (some would say the meta game IS Eve, or an integral and necessary part of it), I'm surprised that you would even concieve of getting rid of the IGB.
There is plenty to complain about with the IGB, but there's more to complain about by not having one (particulary for those who've become accustomed to having it and use it everyday - as I do - and am currently hating on links no longer opening in the IGB).
When you talked about this some time ago, I assumd you would come up with a solution that involved having a 3rd party browser open inside an in-game window. That's what I was expecting. Not sure why that's what I was expecting, or why it isn't (can't) be done.
But look at us now. Instead of asking for a myraid improvements to the gimpy IGB here we are begging you to not get rid of it.
Well that's what it's come to. Unless you can demonstrate some other solution that actually works much better (and I've not seen a current overlay solution that does), then we'd rather have the IGB left in game. Like I mentioned previously, even if you have to turn it off by default and put a check box in the options screen under a heading for "Old unsupported features."
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
102
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 09:30:34 -
[315] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.
IMHO this approach is wrong. CCP is removing the IGB and the players have to adapt. It's a fact that EVE relays heavily on third party tools and the browser was THE tool to access them. So CCP should have a good!!! replacement for the IGB but there is nothing. The solutions offered are at best a clutch. There isn't even a clear statement that certain overlay browsers will work properly with EVE.
Reduce!!! the IGB to the functions really needed to access the websides essential to EVE. We don't need an IGB that can rival Chrome or Firefox but a tool that connects the third party tools to EVE. Stop thinking of the IGB as a browser but think of it as a connection tool. Whitelist EVE sides so you have a prearranged list of sides that the IGB can reliably access. This way CCP will have to work once and for all on the IGB but in the end it will be something like a graphic CREST. The websides adapt to CREST they will do for the new IGB.
CCP should take a look at the functionality of things and how to replace them. It's the same wrong way of thinking that closed the Evelopedia. Just hoping that there will be something out there that will take up is wrong. You have to make certain!!!! with essential features that something will take up the work. You don't have a plan B for closure of UniWiki or a real alternative for the IGB. If you want to kill the IGB make a deal with some overlay to integrate it into EVE.
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Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 13:58:27 -
[316] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?
Rivr Luzade wrote:The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable. XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works. Evolve does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it. Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page. However, the browser apparently does not keep .net addresses like evemaps.dotlan.net stored in the auto complete feature of the url bar, so another thing that makes this overlay less usable than the IGB
And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.
In a nutshell; the reason we're unwilling to use overlays is because they don't work. They're slower. They're unreliable. And let's not get started on the Mac users.
To anyone bringing the argument that third party services can be used to access the data you put into crest; wonderful... so what? Why do I need to install extra stuff again? Not everyone wants to "mod their games". What happened to the good old vanilla experience? What's in the box, is in the box.
Webshell image integration and direct access to Crest via ingame means. That would be a start.
And since Foxfour is no longer on the team again, who is the person in charge to direct our well constructed complains to? Who is going to reply to them? Or did you already cut all possibilities of discussion and you do whatever you want from this point onward? |
LoneRider
Com-Star Off The Reservation.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 15:51:57 -
[317] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Only the fleet boss needs to auth to get access to all fleet member locations. Logging in with SSO, to a site to track fleet details. https://github.com/fuzzysteve/fleetTracker is a very very basic example of how you can use it. (There's a slight delay between actions, and them showing up in the results. Each system reports who's in it to the fleet node, once every 30 seconds. those 30 seconds can be slightly off set from each other, depending on the system)
Thanks a lot. Didn't see that in my first attempts to understand the CREST interface :) Guess i can change it to use this interface then. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
59
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 16:22:52 -
[318] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote: And since Foxfour is no longer on the team again, who is the person in charge to direct our well constructed complains to? Who is going to reply to them? Or did you already cut all possibilities of discussion and you do whatever you want from this point onward?
Could you link to where you obtained this information? I'd be curious to read it. Foxfour hasn't exactly conducted him/herself in a manner consistent with good customer service, but I never expected moving him/her to a different team.
Some acknowledgement of the myriad concerns raised by the player base beyond what is essentially we don't want to, deal with it, would be nice CCP. |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1956
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 17:41:36 -
[319] - Quote
Cismet wrote:... but I never expected moving him/her to a different team. ... FoxFour hasn't moved to another team, he's no longer working for CCP.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6053
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 17:50:13 -
[320] - Quote
And just to be clear, he left for his own reasons.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
59
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 17:50:30 -
[321] - Quote
That explains the dismissive, borderline rudeness from some of the earlier posts then..... |
Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2016.06.27 13:39:56 -
[322] - Quote
It's clear that maintain the browser up to date for the game developer - a waste of time, but may there is no need to update it?
Just freeze it in the current state of development and let the developers of thematic web-resources keep in mind this aspect - I don't think it will stop them.
P.S. Using third party software like Overwolf is a bad idea - it will not replace IGB functionality, the main task of such tools - provide though any possibility of use external program services where it is not provided at all |
Darkblad
923
|
Posted - 2016.06.27 13:54:56 -
[323] - Quote
How to kill the IGB
Open that in-game. The "current" (ha!) state just deserves to get removed.
NPE-ISD-Übersetzt!
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Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2016.06.27 14:02:50 -
[324] - Quote
It just illustrate someone's crippled hands - just need to do it another way. |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
14
|
Posted - 2016.06.27 18:39:08 -
[325] - Quote
Fixed that for you. Do you know how many people used your website with the ingame browser? What are you doing now to ensure the same functionality with your website ingame through overlays (or better solutions) or will you just ignore that and let people go the forced inconvenience route from third party programs to clumsily access Crest? |
bucegi
Imperial Dreams
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 18:52:33 -
[326] - Quote
I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going.............................. |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 20:47:02 -
[327] - Quote
So I'm wasting my Hours for PLEX on this as my subscriptions are cancelled.
Being an NRDS solo pvp whiner I jump into a 0.0 system full of neuts. In order to check for hostiles without the In-Game Browser functionality I would have to: - Copy local to clipboard - Alt+Tab to the external browser - Paste the results into KOS checker - Find out that only one of the characters was checked - Alt+Tab back to game - Copy one name - Alt+Tab back to the browser - Type/Paste the name - Check which entity is KOS (character, corp, or alliance) - Copy the name of the entity - Alt+Tab back to game - Paste the entity name in some input field - Link the entity so I can set standings - Click on the created link in order to set the standing - Copy another neut's name into clipboard - Alt+Tab back to the KOS checker - Paste the pilot name into the KOS checker - Check if the pilot is KOS and which entity exactly - and so it goes for each neutral character in the system... - ...
The current IGB offers the following: - Copy local - Paste into KOS checker without having to Alt+Tab - Click on each red entity to call the show info window - Set standings on the fly - Hunt them down
So to sum it up: In-Game Browser functionality in game = NRDS PVP FUN. versus No In-Game Broswer functionality in game = lots of Alt+Tabbing in order to identify who the enemy is and their numbers. Should there be no enemies the whole thing would have to be repeated for every system you jump into meaning lots of administrative Alt+Tab BULL in NRDS while being Safed-up or Ship Spinning in station instead of the pvp. NO THANK YOU CCP. SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELLED. |
Agent Khanid
Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 21:29:09 -
[328] - Quote
please we need igb
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Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 23:17:49 -
[329] - Quote
bucegi wrote:I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going.............................. You are mistaken, believing that scripted manipulation of virtual camera using already existing game engine can match the complexity with the development of actual web browser that supports dozens of different technologies, developing independently
We need to decide what it is we want from the built-in browser:
firstly, we need to display simple hypertext documents with images and basic interface support;
secondly - a means of interaction with external services, processing API requests;
third - data transfer from external services through a browser game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc);
fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc);
fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features.
All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
59
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 23:31:34 -
[330] - Quote
Jessika Lee wrote:bucegi wrote:I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going.............................. You are mistaken, believing that scripted manipulation of virtual camera using already existing game engine can match the complexity with the development of actual web browser that supports dozens of different technologies, developing independently We need to decide what it is we want from the built-in browser: firstly, we need to display simple hypertext documents with images and basic interface support; secondly - a means of interaction with external services, processing API requests; third - data transfer from external services through a browser game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc); fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc); fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features. All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser.
You're mistaken if you think that CCP ever actually developed the browser. It's a variant on Chromium, the development comes in wrapping it into Eve, they didn't develop the browser. If they had actually developed it from scratch then it's removal would be even more baffling due to the time they'd have thrown into doing so.
What they really need is some work on making it much easier to apply any security patches/updates to flash or shockwave/silverlight or whatever else is required. If you think for a moment that CCP developed that browser from scratch and the attendant technologies that went with then, you are sadly mistaken. That's what's so disappointing about this decision. |
|
Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2016.06.28 23:53:18 -
[331] - Quote
Cismet wrote:You're mistaken if you think that CCP ever actually developed the browser. It's a variant on Chromium, the development comes in wrapping it into Eve, they didn't develop the browser. If they had actually developed it from scratch then it's removal would be even more baffling due to the time they'd have thrown into doing so.
What they really need is some work on making it much easier to apply any security patches/updates to flash or shockwave/silverlight or whatever else is required. If you think for a moment that CCP developed that browser from scratch and the attendant technologies that went with then, you are sadly mistaken. That's what's so disappointing about this decision. In this case it is enough to change the browser Chromium on something is simpler development of that stopped 5 years ago or so it. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
115
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 05:48:32 -
[332] - Quote
Jessika Lee wrote:[quote=bucegi] third - data transfer from external services through a browser into the game (feats, interface settings, standings, etc);
fourth - in the future we would like to see in-game option (via context menu) to export data into the currently active IGB window through a standardized set of variables (character / star system name, fully qualified (region-constellation-system-orbit-satellite) object coordinates, etc);
fifth - the specification of IGB supported standards and features.
All the other bells and whistles can be safely removed - IGB is an expansion tool for data storage / processing, not a full-featured browser. Third will be, IMHO, covered by Crest. Fourth would be nice to have but IMHO overkill because the side can get these infos through CREST when it has the name. The irony is, that CCP implemented a tool that allows thrid party tools easy access to EVE's datas but removes the option to see it ingame. It's like changing the gearbox for higher performance but removing the gear lever at the same time. Whats the use of a shiny CREST if you can't access the sides using it?
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
492
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 17:20:51 -
[333] - Quote
Removal of the IGB will probably lead to the same consequence as the Removal of the < 24 skill training que
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
492
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 17:31:55 -
[334] - Quote
bucegi wrote:I am baffled. How is it possible for CCP to find resources and allocate the time for such an useless thing like the docking animation,but it is absolutely impossible to find resources to keep the IGB going..............................
You have to ask the CEO that imho, ultimately CCP Hellmar is responsible for gaining or losing Customers
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
Syri Taneka
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
138
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 18:27:36 -
[335] - Quote
Would it be possible to have the Necom button launch the system default browser the way links will from now on?
Maybe even as a shell process inside the client so we don't have to deal with Alt+Tab BS on single monitor setups? |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
401
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 18:47:38 -
[336] - Quote
Speared wrote:So I'm wasting my Hours for PLEX on this as my subscriptions are cancelled.
The point of this post isn't too keep the IGB at all costs though, but to keep the important functionality it offers NRDS pilots from within the game.
Being an NRDS solo pvp whiner I jump into a 0.0 system full of neuts. In order to check for hostiles without the In-Game Browser functionality I would have to: - Copy local to clipboard - Alt+Tab to the external browser - Paste the results into KOS checker - Find out that only one of the characters was checked - Alt+Tab back to game - Copy one name - Alt+Tab back to the browser - Type/Paste the name - Check which entity is KOS (character, corp, or alliance) - Copy the name of the entity - Alt+Tab back to game - Paste the entity name in some input field - Link the entity so I can set standings - Click on the created link in order to set the standing - Copy another neut's name into clipboard - Alt+Tab back to the KOS checker - Paste the pilot name into the KOS checker - Check if the pilot is KOS and which entity exactly - and so it goes for each neutral character in the system... - ...
The current IGB offers the following: - Copy local - Paste into KOS checker without having to Alt+Tab - Click on each red entity to call the show info window - Set standings on the fly - Hunt them down
So to sum it up: In-Game Browser functionality in game = NRDS PVP FUN. versus No In-Game Broswer functionality in game = lots of Alt+Tabbing in order to identify who the enemy is and their numbers. Should there be no enemies the whole thing would have to be repeated for every system you jump into meaning lots of administrative Alt+Tab BULL in NRDS while being Safed-up or Ship Spinning in station instead of the pvp. NO THANK YOU CCP. SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELLED.
If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;
- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper) - Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too. - KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Daniel Neyiami
Let's annoy'em
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.29 22:52:56 -
[337] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;
- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper) - Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too. - KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.
So I'm wasting another of my accounts Hours for PLEX.
CCP decided to remove the In-Game Browser for security reasons.
Are those monitors you mentioned free of security risks or would I have to write my own monitor to be somewhat sure of its safety? If you see my point, why would CCP as a gaming company even require their players to use non-supported 3rd party apps in order to make the most of their game?
You wrote that KOS listings can be distributed. "Can" as there is a possibilty of it but it's not included at this very moment, correct?
But let's say I was going to use a few accounts simultaneously. Would I have to change the used API key in the monitor each time I was using a different account to set my standings? Thus far I did not have to mess with my API key to set my standings for each individual account, as the In-Game Browser was an inherent part of every client...
Also, could you please list those dev blogs that concern setting standings? Perhaps, just perhaps, I'll look into it and write my own monitor in order to be able to play what used to be my favorite game for almost 9 years... |
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.30 00:05:15 -
[338] - Quote
Projecting as a reasonable customer now; I understand why you removed the ingame browser, albeit it leaves me flabberghasted how you failed to implement something that has been long sought after, and long demanded to balance it;
I don't care for an ingame-browser, if I can get a CREST-interface. I want the inhouse, ingame tool that access the inhouse, ingame database. For that, I would completely be fine with no web-application going from inside of eve to the outside. I would even sacrifice the aforementioned image-viewer webshell. |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
401
|
Posted - 2016.06.30 03:38:20 -
[339] - Quote
Daniel Neyiami wrote:TheSmokingHertog wrote:
If you have a clipboard monitor that is loading stuff in an app that is connected with crest this is still doable;
- Misclicks; just recopy all, monitor update (see pirate little helper) - Crest sets standings (see dev blogs), so, when you copy something, set standing on the fly in app, commit and its in your eve standings too. - KOS listings can be distributed in the APP, just like on the website.
So I'm wasting another of my accounts Hours for PLEX. CCP decided to remove the In-Game Browser for security reasons. Are those monitors you mentioned free of security risks or would I have to write my own monitor to be somewhat sure of its safety? If you see my point, why would CCP as a gaming company even require their players to use non-supported 3rd party apps in order to make the most of their game? You wrote that KOS listings can be distributed. "Can" as there is a possibilty of it but it's not included at this very moment, correct? But let's say I was going to use a few accounts simultaneously. Would I have to change the used API key in the monitor each time I was using a different account to set my standings? Thus far I did not have to mess with my API key to set my standings for each individual account, as the In-Game Browser was an inherent part of every client... Also, could you please list those dev blogs that concern setting standings? Perhaps, just perhaps, I'll look into it and write my own monitor in order to be able to play what used to be my favorite game for almost 9 years...
* DEV BLOG > https://developers.eveonline.com/blog/article/crest-updates-for-january-2016
* the multiple api thing is something that is a problem, I did not consider unmerged clients. I would prefer to work with the same contacts over all loaded api chars. Seems the most easy is some kind of filter in the clipboard monitoring based on your char in the list you copy or something. But still, I dont think its around.
* (KOS) I was not assuming they were not, I was just pointing out you can switch platform on them.
* I dont get your point about hours for plex.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.30 04:59:22 -
[340] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:* I dont get your point about hours for plex. Probably mentioning it to say "my account is unsubscribed and I use hours for plex to reactivate only to write on the forum" since it's prohibited to use any eve services, including the forum, without an active subscription. Incidentally I find it a bit too "convenient for the narrative" for his accounts to be expired around patchday. Likewise my opinion of being unable to write on the forum with an inactive account is not a good idea either. There should at least be a grace period. |
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Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
62
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 20:03:12 -
[341] - Quote
Drazz Caylen wrote:TheSmokingHertog wrote:* I dont get your point about hours for plex. Probably mentioning it to say "my account is unsubscribed and I use hours for plex to reactivate only to write on the forum" since it's prohibited to use any eve services, including the forum, without an active subscription. Incidentally I find it a bit too "convenient for the narrative" for his accounts to be expired around patchday. Likewise my opinion of being unable to write on the forum with an inactive account is not a good idea either. There should at least be a grace period.
Not the best way to engage and try and keep your customers really is it. Surely you want them to be discussing the game to entice them back?
Still, I'm disappointed that there has been no further input from developers since FoxFour's departure, the points raised in this thread have been largely ignored and/or passively aggressively attacked by developers, which is sad to see. The reasons for the removal still don't really add up and this hasn't been addressed either. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12489
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 20:39:45 -
[342] - Quote
ISD Decoy wrote:I have removed an offensive post. Please keep it civil and within the rules!
Perhaps you could police your rude ex-colleague's responses, too?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Burn Monroe
Suddenly Dreadnoughts BIack Tie Affairs
1
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 05:33:35 -
[343] - Quote
I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.
Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?
I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.
Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.
So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6077
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 23:36:06 -
[344] - Quote
Burn Monroe wrote:I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.
Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?
I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.
Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.
So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved?
The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.
Not too hard to manage, really.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
118
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 18:07:03 -
[345] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.
Not too hard to manage, really.
That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players. someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6079
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 19:03:57 -
[346] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.
Not too hard to manage, really.
That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players. someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem!
That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for? No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Denisok94ru Denisok94ru
Rat' Domovityh Rudokopov
1
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 19:48:03 -
[347] - Quote
-¥-¦ -+-+-¦-Ä, -+-+ -+-+-¦, -é-¦-¦ -¦ -+-+-¦-é-+-+-¦ -+-¦-Ç-¦, -¦-+-+-¦-+-ï -ü-+-Ç-¦-ê-+-¦-¦-é-î -+-+-¦-+-+-¦ -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-+-¦ -+-+-+ -â-ü-é-Ç-¦-+-¦-¦-é-î -¦-+-+-+-ü-+-¦-¦-+-+-¦. -Æ -+-¦-Ç-¦ -¦ -ü-Ç-¦-¦-+-¦-+ 30-¦ -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-+-¦ -+-+-+-¦-¦-+, -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î -+-+-Ç-+-ü -+-Ç-Å-+ -¦ -ü-¦-+-+-¦ -+-¦-Ç-¦ -+ -ü-+-Ç-¦-ê-+-¦-¦-é-î "-à-+-é-+-é-¦ -+-+ -Æ-ï -é-¦-¦-+-¦ -+-+-¦-+-¦-¦-¦-¦-¦-+-+-¦...?", -ç-é-+ -¦-ï -+-+-¦-é-î, -ç-é-+ -+-¦-Ç-+-¦-+ -à-+-é-Å-é -+ -â-+-â-ç-ê-¦-é-î -¦-æ. -ò-ü-+-+ -¦-+-+-î-ê-+-+-ü-é-¦-+ -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-+-¦ -ç-é-+ -à-+-é-Å-é IGB -¦ -+-¦-Ç-¦, -+-+-¦-ç-+-é -+-¦-¦-+ -â-+-â-ç-ê-+-é-î -¦-¦-+ -+-¦-ë-+-é-â, -¦ -+-¦ -+-Ç-+-ü-é-+ -¦-+-Å-é-î -+ -¦-ï-Ç-¦-+-¦-é-î -+-+ -+-¦-Ç-ï. -Æ-+-Å-é-î -+ -ç-é-+--é-+ -+-+-+-¦-+-+-é-î -+-+-¦-â-é -+-+-+-¦-+-+-+-é-î -ü-¦-¦-¦ -é-+-¦ -¦-¦-ü-+-+-¦-é-+-ï-¦ -+-Ç-+-¦-¦-é-ï. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
62
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 20:28:58 -
[348] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once.
Not too hard to manage, really.
That's not the real problem! Tripwire etc can get the datas from CREST but the problem is how do we!!! access Tripwire without the IGB? You made a connection to get datas out of Eve to the site but how do they give the processed datas back to the players inside Eve? Or better: How do we access these sides without closing the Eve window? Eve is outsourcing a lot of informations and the IGB was THE way to get it back to the players. someone listed all the shortcommings of the overlays. Could we please talk about this problem and the solution CCP is offering? Is CCP offering something? I don't think so and THAT's the problem! That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for? No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)
See, this is the problem. It's been stated several times that those are not substitutions for a perfectly functional in-game tool. They have their own downsides that have been espoused several times on this thread. In addition they are absolutely not supported, nor guaranteed to remain within the TOS. As a result it's not appropriate to tout them as a replacement for the IGB. |
Amilee Freed
Let's annoy'em
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 21:45:09 -
[349] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's what an OOG browser, or a browser overlay is for? No need to shut down eve to do it. (run in fixed window, if you want to be able to alt tab, leaving Eve visible)
So, I'm wasting Hours for PLEX on my 3rd account.
An OOG browser is for stuff that is not related to EVE and for the sake of immersion and positive player experience should stay that way. As much as possible of EVE related functionality should stay in-game.
Now I've been wondering, why a CSM represantative would so fiercely defend CCPs decission concerning the In-Game Browser removal. A decission that is bad and, for the sake of EVE let's hope I'm mistaken about it, the real havoc will take place in October when the In-Game Browser gets removed. That's when every In-Game Browser user will get really furious.
I can see that you're an OOG CREST aps developer Steve Ronuken. Do you really want to make other players experience worse? I am really pleased to see that your gaming rig supports 3 monitors. Unfortunately, though, many players have only one screen and their computer specification will not allow them to run a variety of EVE related 3rd party stuff. I am also sure that they would rather spend their money on the game they like playing instead of another monitor and/or hardware to enjoy the current functionality as much as possible.
Also, if I were an app developer I'd rather vote for more accessibility to those tools. Not less. As such the OOG browser, overlays or 3rd party apps create an environment in which your tools are less accessible. EVE's a complicated and challenging game and that's the beauty of it. However, making players life even more complicated by forcing them to use Out of Game tools seems like a bad idea. Not every EVE Online player has to be as big a geek as you are. |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
4
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 02:42:26 -
[350] - Quote
Alright, so I'm back. No other game like EVE right now.
I've just ran 2 clients in a fixed window mode. My video card went crazy hot. I'm glad I didn't add any kind of overlay to it. So I switched back to full screen on both acocunts. It would leave me with Alt-Tabbing to an external browser in October if I planned to use some API features the In-Game Browser provides access to, correct? Or running just one account with some overlays hoping it wouldn't have too great of an impact on my graphics card.
I also really hate that additional amount of clicking I have to do in order to open a link in the In-Game Browser. Please make a switch to turn that pop-up off and allow opening the links in New Tab as we used to be able to, for as long as the In-Game Browser isn't removed.
Those additional clicks I have to do also have a noticeable impact on the quality of pvp. If I had to Alt-Tab to an external browser or any other 3rd party program, I think I'd quit EVE again. You don't get that in any other pvp game.
I know it won't concern the vast majority of EVE players who are either carebears or lemmings, but it might hit solo pvpers hard. Especially those flying under the Not Red Don't Shoot (NRDS) policy were we have to run KOS checks for every neutral jumping into the system and as we jump to different systems filled with neutral characters.
I know you're probably busy responding to and working on all the issues that your new update caused, however, please let us know what is your stance on the In-Game Browser removal and possible solutions in the light of all the feedback. Is there a chance at least for the API related stuff to remain In-Game or not?
It would be great to still be able to access CVA's KOS list from within the game and set standings on the fly without having to Alt+Tab or use any 3rd party software. It would also be nice if fleet composition intel copied from the Directional Scanner could be shared In-Game as it's now by means of the In-Game Browser. |
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Azzadal
The Second Quarter
3
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 10:23:06 -
[351] - Quote
From time to time Overwolf browser causes runtime error and closes. Also sometimes it works very slow (the EVE works fine) on my I7 4790K 16 RAM GF 980Ti. I understant that is not the CCP problem but I vote for IGB to stay. |
Oli Picard
The First Core - Main Branch
6
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 20:14:02 -
[352] - Quote
Does this mean the end to the XML API now?
If so how are transactions going to be recorded. |
Trader Hansen
Failure Assured Fail Nation
5
|
Posted - 2016.07.05 12:00:12 -
[353] - Quote
Possibly already mentioned in this thread, but with the removal of the IGB, can any in-game links that are actually URLs for external content please be made a different colour to in-game links for in-game content. |
bucegi
Imperial Dreams
9
|
Posted - 2016.07.05 19:49:26 -
[354] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Burn Monroe wrote:I understand the desire to remove the in game browser. I'm sure it's huge amounts of work to maintain. But, I'm very concerned that this will significantly disrupt WH life.
Right now, WH residents use things like siggy or tripwire with the IGB. So, when you want to come back from HS, you just right click the system closest to your WH, from the WH mapping software, and select "Set destination". I know that CREST allows for this as well, but what if the person has multiple characters on different accounts? How is that going to be accommodated? Mainly this will be a problem because even if the WH mapping tool allowed logging into two accounts with CREST, you'd have to log out of one to login with the other. And I'm guessing that would then invalidate your original CREST login, no?
I think the easiest way is to give your main account approval to be the authorizer for your other accounts. Then, when you login, CREST should tell the client all the accounts that have been authorized. This would allow WH mapping software to use two different browser windows for different characters.
Either way, WH mapping software is definitely going to be VERY clunky from this point forward.
So, I'm curious how this issue will be resolved? The mapping software can take care of the linking of accounts. Log in once, then log in a few more times to give the site some refresh tokens. Once that's done, it can track you, and show you all of the details at once. Not too hard to manage, really.
You sir are starting to sound like a future person with CCP prefix lol What is so hard to understand that many players around here do not want to be disturbed by the client minimizing just to browse something? Also I strongly believe that I shouldn't be forced to use third party apps that will or will not work and they don't replace the functionality of the ingame browser entirely and are not endorsed by ccp? I do not want to run EvE in windowed mode, how will I quickly check the local for reds without having the surprised to wake up in a pod because I had to alt tab or whatever CCCP thinks is OK for me to do? And last but not least, why should I browse out of game to look at those really funny gif's?
Why isn't there a poll sent out by CCP to all eve players to ask them if they agree or not with the removal of the ingame browser?? Is it so hard to implement?
Too many questions, I will stop here :) I would be pleasantly surprised to see a proper plan of action next time something happens in eve. Not just we will do it and let's see how it goes (capture the flag....)
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Damocles Orindus
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 06:16:12 -
[355] - Quote
Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.
We just hoping this will quietly go away? |
Duke Garland
Solar Vista. The Anubis Accord
23
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 09:31:39 -
[356] - Quote
Damocles Orindus wrote:Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.
We just hoping this will quietly go away?
I sincerely hope that with whatever circumstance lead to FoXFour's departure from CCP plans are at least put on hold for now until a new DEV is assigned on the matter and worked through this threadnaught and is perhaps able to share insight on updated plans on this matter. Otherwise the help channel will certainly, in October, see an even bigger uproar than it did with the (un-)docking animation...
Anyhow for the time being a statment from anybody affiliated with the team responsible for the original decision (or some statement from the PR/community management folks) would be greatly appreciated. Or did Logibro mysteriosly disappear from payrolls too and nobody noticed? |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
63
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 14:12:21 -
[357] - Quote
Duke Garland wrote:Damocles Orindus wrote:Definitely not encouraged by the feedback from the troubleshooters and the lack of response from the devs since all the "solutions" have been looked at and found lacking.
We just hoping this will quietly go away? I sincerely hope that with whatever circumstance lead to FoXFour's departure from CCP plans are at least put on hold for now until a new DEV is assigned on the matter and worked through this threadnaught and is perhaps able to share insight on updated plans on this matter. Otherwise the help channel will certainly, in October, see an even bigger uproar than it did with the (un-)docking animation... Anyhow for the time being a statment from anybody affiliated with the team responsible for the original decision (or some statement from the PR/community management folks) would be greatly appreciated. Or did Logibro mysteriosly disappear from payrolls too and nobody noticed?
This. Foxfour is no longer on the dev team. Fair enough. Either put this on hold until something can be sorted, but something from the devs who have taken over this project would be nice.
A Crest interface in-game would probably do it. Log in out of the game, and have the output piped to an in-game crest interface if that's a possibility. I don't know how much more development would be required, but there are tools used "in-space" that it's simply dangerous to use in an OOGB. Almost as bad as the damned hacking mini-game. I've been caught twice by that because I was hacking and couldn't adequately split my focus on the Overview...... That's my personal problem though and has no bearing on this matter, forget I mentioned it.... |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2197
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 13:47:36 -
[358] - Quote
I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
63
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 13:59:11 -
[359] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.
Noone is questioning that it was a huge decision. The question is over the wisdom of the decision given the lack of viable and officially supported in-game alternatives. I'm sorry for being blunt, but that's what this comes down to. This isn't a wise decision for a large group of your player base given the lack of viable/officially supported alternatives.
I won't reiterate the reasoning that has already been iterated on this thread, but I'm disappointed that the only response has been to continue to propose "solutions" that the community have already advised you are not viable. Instead, you seem determined to further alienate large portions of your customer base.
Still, I appreciate that you took the time to at least come on and provide a dev comment following the departure of FoxFour. |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 17:30:54 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.
It was "a huge decission made after lots of discussion" to make the plyers Alt-Tab and favor those who can use another monitor or secondary device such as a smartphone or tablet?
Your "follow-up prep work over multiple years" resulted only in CREST meant for 3rd party unsupported apps?
"Working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog" which to me is removing the browser from the client seems like a lot of work indeed.
Are you kidding me CCP? |
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bucegi
Imperial Dreams
11
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 17:36:15 -
[361] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:I've been on the sidelines for this, but you can be very sure that this choice was a huge decision made after lots of discussion and follow-up prep work over multiple years among members of a number of teams as well as Eve Development leadership. The team is still working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog.
Can you tell us please why, along all these years, why you didn't ask the players at all for feedback? For you just to know what the community thinks about it, so you can make the right decision......... Isn't this the way it is supposed to work? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6091
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Posted - 2016.07.07 18:43:37 -
[362] - Quote
Speared wrote: "Working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog" which to me is removing the browser from the client seems like a lot of work indeed.
While I wasn't part of the discussion, and haven't seen the code, I _highly_ suspect the schedule is more giving people a chance to adjust, than to give CCP time to make the change.
Edit: The internal discussion, that is. The plan to remove the IGB has been well known in the Third party development community, for a few years now. It's been held off on, as some functions for sites weren't available. They are now. I've yet to meet a third party dev who isn't happy they won't need to support the IGB for much longer. Total PITA to work with.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Speared
Let's annoy'em
7
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Posted - 2016.07.07 21:48:38 -
[363] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Speared wrote: "Working to the schedule stated in CCP FoxFour's dev blog" which to me is removing the browser from the client seems like a lot of work indeed.
While I wasn't part of the discussion, and haven't seen the code, I _highly_ suspect the schedule is more giving people a chance to adjust, than to give CCP time to make the change. Edit: The internal discussion, that is. The plan to remove the IGB has been well known in the Third party development community, for a few years now. It's been held off on, as some functions for sites weren't available. They are now. I've yet to meet a third party dev who isn't happy they won't need to support the IGB for much longer. Total PITA to work with.
If what you're saying is true then 3rd party devs care about as much about EVE players in this case as do CCP. I hope you're only speaking for yourself, though. |
Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 23:30:44 -
[364] - Quote
BTW, about EVE and any external browser:
1. you just need to switch game graphics settings to Window mode / Fixed Window (looks like fullscreen) 2. install freeware and reliable AutoHotKey software 3. compile 1 line script with it to provide standalone traybar executable (after you copy it to safe place, you can uninstall Autohotkey)
^!SPACE:: Winset, Alwaysontop, , A 4. while this application is active you can pin / unpin any currently active window on top of screen by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Space
so you no need Overwolf or something like it |
Red Yxa
Freedom Buildiers Corp.
9
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 23:37:09 -
[365] - Quote
Jessika Lee wrote:BTW, about EVE and any external browser: 1. you just need to switch game graphics settings to Window mode / Fixed Window (looks like fullscreen) 2. install freeware and reliable AutoHotKey software 3. compile 1 line script with it to provide standalone traybar executable (after you copy it to safe place, you can uninstall Autohotkey) ^!SPACE:: Winset, Alwaysontop, , A 4. while this app is active you can pin / unpin any currently active window on top of screen by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Space so you no need Overwolf or something like it Its not "just". It overburdens your PC if you run multiple clients. And you cant have different browser windows in them |
Jessika Lee
Perkone Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2016.07.07 23:41:51 -
[366] - Quote
Red Yxa wrote:Jessika Lee wrote:BTW, about EVE and any external browser: 1. you just need to switch game graphics settings to Window mode / Fixed Window (looks like fullscreen) 2. install freeware and reliable AutoHotKey software 3. compile 1 line script with it to provide standalone traybar executable (after you copy it to safe place, you can uninstall Autohotkey) ^!SPACE:: Winset, Alwaysontop, , A 4. while this app is active you can pin / unpin any currently active window on top of screen by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Space so you no need Overwolf or something like it Its not "just". It overburdens your PC if you run multiple clients. And you cant have different browser windows in them Yep, that's a problem - one of many, but as I can see the question is not «to IGB or not to IGB» - CCP will remove it in any case, likes we it or not |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6091
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Posted - 2016.07.07 23:56:44 -
[367] - Quote
Speared wrote: If what you're saying is true then 3rd party devs care about as much about EVE players in this case as do CCP. I hope you're only speaking for yourself, though. Which bothers me as I always thought keeping as much functionality In-game should be everyone's goal.
Ahem. You know that 3rd party devs (in almost all situations) make no money from providing services, and instead are forking out what can be a reasonable sum each month? Which means they're paying for you to use their services. And you say they don't care about Eve players?
We also tend to be reasonable people, who've been talking to CCP for a fair time about this. This isn't a spur of the moment decision on CCP's part. It's been in the offing for _years_. Would it be nice to keep having an in game browser? Yes. Is the current one suitable, nope. Would it take a bunch of resources CCP could better spend elsewhere? Yes.
That's the cost/benefit argument.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2016.07.08 00:23:31 -
[368] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Speared wrote: If what you're saying is true then 3rd party devs care about as much about EVE players in this case as do CCP. I hope you're only speaking for yourself, though. Which bothers me as I always thought keeping as much functionality In-game should be everyone's goal.
Ahem. You know that 3rd party devs (in almost all situations) make no money from providing services, and instead are forking out what can be a reasonable sum each month? Which means they're paying for you to use their services. And you say they don't care about Eve players? We also tend to be reasonable people, who've been talking to CCP for a fair time about this. This isn't a spur of the moment decision on CCP's part. It's been in the offing for _years_. Would it be nice to keep having an in game browser? Yes. Is the current one suitable, nope. Would it take a bunch of resources CCP could better spend elsewhere? Yes. That's the cost/benefit argument.
A better, and a well supported In Game Brower would be great for sure.
However, as I've stated before, given that it seems clear we will not be getting that (ever), then I and I think others would accept at this point, simply leaving the IGB in the game under an Unsupported Old Features toggle. 3rd party developers will have no obligation to make anything that supports it.
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Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
64
|
Posted - 2016.07.08 08:58:29 -
[369] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Speared wrote: If what you're saying is true then 3rd party devs care about as much about EVE players in this case as do CCP. I hope you're only speaking for yourself, though. Which bothers me as I always thought keeping as much functionality In-game should be everyone's goal.
Ahem. You know that 3rd party devs (in almost all situations) make no money from providing services, and instead are forking out what can be a reasonable sum each month? Which means they're paying for you to use their services. And you say they don't care about Eve players? We also tend to be reasonable people, who've been talking to CCP for a fair time about this. This isn't a spur of the moment decision on CCP's part. It's been in the offing for _years_. Would it be nice to keep having an in game browser? Yes. Is the current one suitable, nope. Would it take a bunch of resources CCP could better spend elsewhere? Yes. That's the cost/benefit argument.
Would it take a bunch of resources better spent elsewhere is a matter of opinion. I would rather they spent their resources on updating the IGB than any of the recent camera "improvements", docking "improvements" and the entire bit that lets me pointlessly get outside of my spaceship and walk around. CCP have an annoying habit of spending lots of resources on stuff they think will improve the game that noone actually ASKED for. This is something people are clearly loath to lose. That doesn't indicate those resources could be better spent elsewhere.
Suck it up and create a decent wrapper in-game into which you can insert something like chrome and you don't NEED to spend massive resources updating it.
It's been in the offing for years because they haven't spent any time on it at all, and yet it is STILL one of the most useful in-game tools there are. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6091
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Posted - 2016.07.08 12:02:26 -
[370] - Quote
The problem with the argument "But they're spending time on [insert thing here]", is that not all code is equal. People have specialities. Integrating a new version of the browser is a very different code requirement, than putting in, say, docking animations.
People _keep_ missing that.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Red Yxa
Freedom Buildiers Corp.
9
|
Posted - 2016.07.08 13:54:49 -
[371] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The problem with the argument "But they're spending time on [insert thing here]", is that not all code is equal. People have specialities. Integrating a new version of the browser is a very different code requirement, than putting in, say, docking animations.
People _keep_ missing that. People of all specialities are paid by same money. CCP should fire those who cant make something really usefull with their specialities and hire those whos specialities are needed for years |
Oliver Ward
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
38
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Posted - 2016.07.08 14:28:27 -
[372] - Quote
Red Yxa wrote: People of all specialities are paid by same money. CCP should fire those who cant make something really usefull with their specialities and hire those whos specialities are needed for years
As a software dev, I feel that this comment highlights the general ignorance (often willful) of the general population when it comes to software development in a corporate environment. Or any environment, to be honest. |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
8
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Posted - 2016.07.08 17:27:25 -
[373] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Speared wrote: If what you're saying is true then 3rd party devs care about as much about EVE players in this case as do CCP. I hope you're only speaking for yourself, though. Which bothers me as I always thought keeping as much functionality In-game should be everyone's goal.
Ahem. You know that 3rd party devs (in almost all situations) make no money from providing services, and instead are forking out what can be a reasonable sum each month? Which means they're paying for you to use their services. And you say they don't care about Eve players? We also tend to be reasonable people, who've been talking to CCP for a fair time about this. This isn't a spur of the moment decision on CCP's part. It's been in the offing for _years_. Would it be nice to keep having an in game browser? Yes. Is the current one suitable, nope. Would it take a bunch of resources CCP could better spend elsewhere? Yes. That's the cost/benefit argument.
I don't belive you're representing the whole 3rd party Dev group here.
If you take time to read my post carefully you'll notice that I did not write that 3rd party Devs don't care about EVE players. I wrote they did not care for EVE players who tend to use In-Game Browser assuming your statement was true. Which clearly isn't true as there are many tools that work with the IGB. Also not every tool requires the same amount of work as far as I know. So if you think that using your own resources to develop tools for the IGB is a waste then don't do it.
Moreover, if you think that CCPs resources should be spent on whatever it might be as you did not even care to specify those things, it's only your opinion. Such decissions can cost CCP subscription payers as players experience with the game gets worse.
If you followed this thread carefully you would have noticed that some of the players already pointed out that the removal of the IGB will cost CCP subscriptions as their in-game activities will be impacted heavily and system/equipment requirements will be harder to meet.
Besides what we're seeing now it's just calm before the storm, as most players who really care for the IGB won't notice what's on the plate until the In-Game Browser gets removed.
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Dex Cordell
EVE University Ivy League
29
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 22:38:44 -
[374] - Quote
TL;DR the above, I've replied to the dev post already once, I'd stil like to know if CCP still didn't put this terrible idea on ice. I still wonder how hard it could be to get chromium put into the game, the code is already developed, getting security and bugfix updates is outside of the game devs responsibility, the chromium project guys take care of that, a ton of other normal game developers managed without any hassle about high development costs and all those other excuses of CCP. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
67
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 23:14:09 -
[375] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The problem with the argument "But they're spending time on [insert thing here]", is that not all code is equal. People have specialities. Integrating a new version of the browser is a very different code requirement, than putting in, say, docking animations.
People _keep_ missing that.
I'm sorry, but if we're going to the fallacy that someone has a skill set and can only possibly do the work that falls within a particularly narrow definition of that skillset then I'm out.
I work in support, and support a particular piece of software. As part of that I need to be able to support general windows, hardware, server, IIS, webserver, SQL, basic networking and various bespoke pieces of software as part of that suite. I can't do all of them to the same proficiency, but to claim that I absolutely cannot do any of it as I'm not "skilled" for it is clearly nonsense.
If we're going down the route that developers are special snowflakes and can't possibly code (or learn to code) outside of their specialty then I'm out. Enjoy the future of the game, when the IGB is removed I'll just stop playing, as will a lot of players it would seem. There have been no valid suggestions that are supported by CCP that would work, and some of them have been borderline insulting.
GG, have fun. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6096
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 02:45:44 -
[376] - Quote
Dex Cordell wrote:TL;DR the above, I've replied to the dev post already once, I'd stil like to know if CCP still didn't put this terrible idea on ice. I still wonder how hard it could be to get chromium put into the game, the code is already developed, getting security and bugfix updates is outside of the game devs responsibility, the chromium project guys take care of that, a ton of other normal game developers managed without any hassle about high development costs and all those other excuses of CCP.
I beleive they used http://www.awesomium.com/ (which, iirc, is a fork of chromium)
However, bear in mind that it has to be embedded into the 3d engine that Eve uses. (Which is custom. So no, it's not as simple as they make out)
It's not a one off task though. Because you have to redo it each time they have a new release (unless you want to get into the situation we're in right now. which they don't want. Hence the removal)
'ton of other game developers'. Not that many really. it's far from a common feature.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Jiradus Tazinas
EVE University Ivy League
15
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 02:58:32 -
[377] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I've yet to meet a third party dev who isn't happy they won't need to support the IGB for much longer. Total PITA to work with.
Have you met a user with only one monitor who uses the IGB as part of their in-game Eve Online interaction that is happy that CCP is pulling support for the IGB?
How about Mac users?
How about full-screen users? |
RustyAftaBurner
Seventh Star Inc
2
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 01:59:28 -
[378] - Quote
+1 for keeping in game browser its still functionable and useful and works perfectly fine as is one of the core functions no need to change |
Cliverunner
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 17:28:00 -
[379] - Quote
I can't even imagine playing a game this complex without the in game browser. The shear number of tools that people use as a matter of course (Dotlan - because both in game maps suck, adashboard, wh mappers, just plan info websites- uni wiki just mention a few) have all come to be because ccp has made truely massive game.
Maybe the igb browser is a problem for ccp, but to remove it with out a fully supported in game replacement is just stupid. They have been talking about needing to do something about the igb for years, now the best answer they can come up with is-we are taking it away and anyone who isn't happy about it can just quit playing. That seems to also be a stupid move for a company that is trying to build and maintain a player base.
As a software developer, I have some idea what it would take to embed a chromium browser from Google and it really is a bit of work. But I also have a feel for the amount of work keeping a game like this running is too, and I can tell you the effort to keep the igb is small compared to all that.
I really hope that ccp realizes that they need to have a better replacement plan than to suggest we use unsupported overlays or just learn to do without. |
Cliverunner
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 17:41:36 -
[380] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:However, bear in mind that it has to be embedded into the 3d engine that Eve uses. (Which is custom. So no, it's not as simple as they make out)
It's not a one off task though. Because you have to redo it each time they have a new release (unless you want to get into the situation we're in right now. which they don't want. Hence the removal)
This is only true if ccp developers are totally incompetent, which they most certainly are not. This is not something that would not have to be redone completely ever. Only very small incremental updates would occasionally be needed. The initial implementation would be a job of work, but maintainence would be fairly easy (at least compared to the amount they have to do all the time anyway). |
|
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
144
|
Posted - 2016.07.14 07:25:11 -
[381] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:[quote=Speared] Edit: The internal discussion, that is. The plan to remove the IGB has been well known in the Third party development community, for a few years now. It's been held off on, as some functions for sites weren't available. They are now. I've yet to meet a third party dev who isn't happy they won't need to support the IGB for much longer. Total PITA to work with. That's not the point. 99,99% of the eve players aren't interested how you get your data but they are interested how they can access your websites. The point is how will EVE players get conveniently on the websites. I don't give a dam for the IGB and how they implement the functionality but I really want the functionality. Overwolf is sometimes working sometimes not....... |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
9
|
Posted - 2016.07.14 17:30:21 -
[382] - Quote
Suggestion to CCP: implement a mechanism similar to IETab or Google Chrome Frame, launch what the user has installed (Chrome/Opera/FF/etc.) inside the game. Look here for more info: http://www.geek.com/news/google-chrome-frame-run-chrome-inside-internet-explorer-911361/
I don't think that "forcing" users to have Chrome installed in order for the "new" IGB to work will be an issue for anyone. You can force the IGB to always launch the browser inside it by using the aformentioned technologies, while disabling any other option to use IGB natively . This should be both as secure as Chrome is at the respective time, and functional. My 0.02 |
Tony Tuco
Air The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 12:56:04 -
[383] - Quote
I only resubbed 3 days ago, I dont need a fully supported browser. I DO need to be able to link/view cat&dog pictures/gifs. For a single account, on a laptop, living in k-space, it is all I need.
Dankmemes are a part of EvE culture, and I fear that without an ability in game to open said memes, something truely special about EvE will be lost. A metric I'm sure you dont track is how many new players are linked funny gifs/pics and continue through the isk/sp grind because "dis dogge iz funneh". Certainly I've joined corps/alliances based on how they can smack in local. No gifs No fun :P
I just want to be sure this isnt because of redpillbluepillfozziesov meme. |
SpaceyX
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2016.08.22 08:33:17 -
[384] - Quote
Do NOT remove the IGB. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
147
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 10:40:28 -
[385] - Quote
Hmmmm
Trading tools such as Everuns have some very useful IGB features, among those:
- show market details of an item in game from out of game application
- expanding on the above: preparing lists of orders (e.g. all, outbid, finished, filtered in some custom way, etc.) which can be displayed in IGB tab and where such tab have button(s) to call market detail window with single click. This is eons more flexible and fast (not mentioning FPC) than mindless double clicking on wallet's orders.
How / do you plan to retain this kind of functionality ?
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
68
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 10:46:10 -
[386] - Quote
Soltys wrote:Hmmmm
Trading tools such as Everuns have some very useful IGB features, among those:
- show market details of an item in game from out of game application
- expanding on the above: preparing lists of orders (e.g. all, outbid, finished, filtered in some custom way, etc.) which can be displayed in IGB tab and where such tab have button(s) to call market detail window with single click. This is eons more flexible and fast (not mentioning FPC) than mindless double clicking on wallet's orders.
How / do you plan to retain this kind of functionality ?
They don't. The only response from devs has been either:
A: Alt-Tab - Inappropriate and inconvenient, I should be able to access the tools required for the game IN the game. B: Overlays - Third party tech and so not necessarily compatible, has its own attendant risks and no guarantee of continuing support or TOC compliance by CCP and so completely useless as suggestions go. C: Buy another monitor - Elitist and insulting.
I think that pretty much sums up CCP's insulting responses to the points raised by a large proportion of people who pay their wages. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
147
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 11:03:41 -
[387] - Quote
Cismet wrote: They don't. The only response from devs has been either:
A: Alt-Tab - Inappropriate and inconvenient, I should be able to access the tools required for the game IN the game.
Dunno about CCP guys but this game is unplayable without 3rd party stuff (and no amount of silly spins they do gonna change that), and "fixed windowed" is basically prerequisite to do anything "seriously". Whether one has 1 monitor, 2 or giant vesa-stand setup of 9.
Personally I don't mind IGB removal that much (and I realize it's a PITA to use it as a dev) as long as I can do the same stuff I'm doing now with "always on top" external browser after IGB is cut out.
BUT
"do the same stuff I'm doing now" is rather worrying, looking at past few years of EvE "improvements" which mostly regressed the game in many subtle ways (e.g. ******* forced in-game window snapping, minimize all windows to horizontal title lines removed, etc.) and not so subtle (e.g. camera, forced monochromatic looking-alike icons). To remain honest - all of this fixable, but near all feedback has so far went to /dev/null.
On a related note, it would be nice if they spent time developing 2 edit boxes to type the damn resolution directly in.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.25 18:44:12 -
[388] - Quote
A suggestion wrapped in questions;
When I click a link I'm asked if I want to open this in my out of game browser. When prompted yes, I'm being forwarded to a new tab in my browser or the browser itself opens from the system. So technically, eve online accesses something outside of it which quite accurately pinpoints the browser (probably by the magic of default browser system settings).
Why does this need to happen outside of the game? Can't you create a window in the game which does nothing but mirror or launch it's own instance of the system browser? That way it depends on the user which kind of content s/he can see or can not see due to what is compatible with it and what not, depending on which browser is mirrored / instanced and which version it has. Eve third party developers can decide how far they want to go in downwards compatibility as if designing for a regular web browser. I'd even go as far as to prompt a selection as to which browser installed should be used inside eve, at the player discretion, so we can freely throw out stuff or block that we don't want to have it as lightweight (or not) as we want.
I'm pretty sure something like that is absolutely possible, code-wise. The question now is, how much effort would it take? Was it up for debate? Why was it ditched? Any estimate in terms of manpower? Any takers?
I'm still all for an image-viewer implemented into the game (proper ingame crest servicing probably in the third decade). I mean, let's be real here; they're streaming the Flight academy videos through the web into the client for viewing. These videos are not on your computer. So they have some form of video playback system already inside the client. How hard can it be from there to display web images? If I was to make an educated guess, they're streaming straight from youtube, but I can't confirm that.
PS: I have played, and still play, eve online with one monitor and without third party applications and am not missing out on any of my personal fun. |
Firnas
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 15:48:39 -
[389] - Quote
CCP is in trouble. This sounds like company streamlining to reduce costs. Seen alongside the new free to play accounts, I worry for my EVE. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6150
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 20:16:17 -
[390] - Quote
Firnas wrote:CCP is in trouble. This sounds like company streamlining to reduce costs. Seen alongside the new free to play accounts, I worry for my EVE.
Developers have been talking about getting rid of the IGB for _years_.
They've just not been in a position to do so.
(considering how little work has been put into the IGB for the last few years, this is hardly cost cutting)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
|
ugh zug
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 22:45:24 -
[391] - Quote
by by pap links
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
|
Speared
Let's annoy'em
10
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 19:10:27 -
[392] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Firnas wrote:CCP is in trouble. This sounds like company streamlining to reduce costs. Seen alongside the new free to play accounts, I worry for my EVE. Developers have been talking about getting rid of the IGB for _years_. They've just not been in a position to do so. (considering how little work has been put into the IGB for the last few years, this is hardly cost cutting)
Developers this, Developers that. Why do I get a feeling you're just a CCP member and not a representative of the Players?
Removal of the IGB is starting to make sense to me now as CCP wants to make EVE Free to Play. I would not be surprised if removal of the chat and mailing systems as we know it were scheduled for removal next. I guess lots of inappropriate links and information will be posted.
My and other Players questions remain unanswered though: What is CCP going to do about all the lost functionality that the In-game Browser has offered for years?
(And no, using overlays, smart-devices or buying another screen is not an answer to that.) |
Qutain Malakovic
Nisroc Angels
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 22:28:47 -
[393] - Quote
Out of all of the forums that I have been reading lately, which have been quite a few since I am an industrialist and the new changes they are implementing are harming how we play EVE gravely, I would like to say thank you to CCP FoxFour. You are the only DEV who has actually read the posts after stating what is going to happen and have replied to the community . While I disagree with the removal of the In Game Browser (which I use a great deal), I do appreciate that you take your position seriously and actually communicate with us, the players. I wish the other CCP developers took their jobs as seriously and made the attempt to listen and talk with us rather than at us. Once again, Thank You. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
68
|
Posted - 2016.09.03 22:38:46 -
[394] - Quote
Qutain Malakovic wrote:Out of all of the forums that I have been reading lately, which have been quite a few since I am an industrialist and the new changes they are implementing are harming how we play EVE gravely, I would like to say thank you to CCP FoxFour. You are the only DEV who has actually read the posts after stating what is going to happen and have replied to the community . While I disagree with the removal of the In Game Browser (which I use a great deal), I do appreciate that you take your position seriously and actually communicate with us, the players. I wish the other CCP developers took their jobs as seriously and made the attempt to listen and talk with us rather than at us. Once again, Thank You.
You know Foxfour doesn't work for CCP any more right? |
Qutain Malakovic
Nisroc Angels
4
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 13:32:08 -
[395] - Quote
Cismet wrote:Qutain Malakovic wrote:Out of all of the forums that I have been reading lately, which have been quite a few since I am an industrialist and the new changes they are implementing are harming how we play EVE gravely, I would like to say thank you to CCP FoxFour. You are the only DEV who has actually read the posts after stating what is going to happen and have replied to the community . While I disagree with the removal of the In Game Browser (which I use a great deal), I do appreciate that you take your position seriously and actually communicate with us, the players. I wish the other CCP developers took their jobs as seriously and made the attempt to listen and talk with us rather than at us. Once again, Thank You. You know Foxfour doesn't work for CCP any more right?
I didn't when I posted, but if it shames the rest of the Devs to step up and start interacting with the players and responding to their concerns then alls the better. It can't hurt to try. |
Firnas
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 15:10:42 -
[396] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Firnas wrote:CCP is in trouble. This sounds like company streamlining to reduce costs. Seen alongside the new free to play accounts, I worry for my EVE. Developers have been talking about getting rid of the IGB for _years_. They've just not been in a position to do so. (considering how little work has been put into the IGB for the last few years, this is hardly cost cutting)
Nice spin, pumpkin, but their own reason given for doing this was resource cost.
By any chance were you one of the CSMs that helped cost me my watchlist? I just want to know what level of disgust I should level at you, general disgust for your clear spinning here or more specific disgust for being a terrible rep overall.
|
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1765
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 08:14:08 -
[397] - Quote
Watchlist was horrible and I'm glad it's gone. Intel that requires no effort or risk is not conducive to the nature of this game |
Cicirus
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 01:51:04 -
[398] - Quote
Until someone can tell me how they are able to gather all manner of game related info in real-time & IN-GAME, then removing the IGB is incredibly short-sighted and a horrible idea . The folks at CCP have discussed pushing key functions to CREST so 3rd party devs who use the IGB have a chance to migrate but you neglect one huge glaring issue. Unless I'm mistaken, the IGB is the only way any 3rd party app (web-based) can run in-game - am I missing something???
This is a huge deal for many players including myself. The only other way to gather such info during gameplay is:
- Keep EVE running in a windowed environment - i.e. NOT full screen.
- Have a multi-screen setup.
- Jump out from the game to your desktop and then back again.
None of these "options" is really an option at all - they all serve to diminish the gaming experience and make playing it unnecessarily more difficult. It's more than awesome (in fact imperative) to have Eve be a difficult & challenging game to play and impossible to master. But the difficulty\challenge should only relate to game-play - not having to juggle application windows and desktops. In addition, unless you guys allow 3rd-party apps to somehow run natively within the Eve client - which I gotta think would be an outright disaster (security, stability, etc.) - then using CREST will never be able to provide feature parity to the IGB - it's just not possible.
I'm not sure whether or not CCP is doing this due to resource constraints but what I am pretty sure of is that CCP has failed to fully understand how ALL players - not just the hard-core alliance\corp types - play the game. I also believe any IGB usage stats being tracked by CCP (assuming they do this) are possibly skewed to the negative thereby implying the IGB is not a good idea. However, I think this is an erroneous conclusion to draw because the issue isn't the IGB itself - the issue is that the IGB in it's current state is too anemic. Therefore, the better response is to double-down and ENHANCE the IGB - not kill it. Make it run more like Chrome or FF - then I bet it would get used by a whole lot more players AND make the game better for those of us who don't have multi-screen rigs but still wanna maximize our Eve playing experience. And the beauty of Eve should never be diminished by running on anything except full-screen...nunca nunca nunca...
Again, I could be missing something and if so, then I will surely eat a large plate of crow. But absent evidence illustrating how things like market data analysis, efficient system mapping\analysis, detailed killmail analysis, etc. are done real-time and in game, then kicking the IGB to the curb is a bad move...
The floor is yours... |
Nuclearbomb
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 02:08:34 -
[399] - Quote
Cicirus wrote:Until someone can tell me how they are able to gather all manner of game related info in real-time & IN-GAME, then removing the IGB is incredibly short-sighted and a horrible idea . The folks at CCP have discussed pushing key functions to CREST so 3rd party devs a chance to migrate but you neglect one huge glaring issue. Unless I'm mistaken, overlay apps actually run outside of the Eve client so the IGB is the only way any 3rd party app (web-based) can run in-game - am I missing something??? This is a huge deal for many players including myself. The only other way to gather such info during gameplay is:
- Keep EVE running in a windowed environment - i.e. NOT full screen.
- Have a multi-screen setup.
- Jump out from the game to your desktop and then back again.
- Possibly a new set of apps with a new set of overlays - this would be per OS type and therefore totally kills x-platform.
None of these "options" is really an option at all - they all serve to diminish the gaming experience and make playing it unnecessarily more difficult. It's more than awesome (in fact imperative) to have Eve be a difficult & challenging game to play and impossible to master. But the difficulty\challenge should only relate to game-play - not having to juggle application windows and desktops. As for new apps using something like an in-game overlay - is it really even possible or realistic to think all the devs are going to migrate all their hard work to a new set of per-platform apps using a new API? The only other alternative I see would be to start allowing 3rd-party apps to somehow run natively within the Eve client which I gotta think would be an outright disaster (security, stability, etc.). I'm not sure whether or not CCP is doing this due to resource constraints but what I am pretty sure of is that CCP has failed to fully understand how ALL players - not just the hard-core alliance\corp types - play the game. I also believe any IGB usage stats being tracked by CCP (assuming they do this) are possibly skewed to the negative thereby implying the IGB is not a good idea. However, I think this is an erroneous conclusion to draw because the issue isn't having an IGB - the issue is that the IGB in it's current state is too anemic. Therefore, the better response is to double-down and ENHANCE the IGB - not kill it. Make it run more like Chrome or FF - then I bet it would get used by a whole lot more players AND make the game better for those of us who don't have multi-screen rigs but still wanna maximize our Eve playing experience. And the beauty of Eve should never be diminished by running on anything except full-screen...nunca nunca nunca... Again, I could be missing something and if so, then I will surely eat a large plate of crow. But absent evidence illustrating how things like market data analysis, efficient system mapping\analysis, detailed killmail analysis, etc. are done real-time and in game, then kicking the IGB to the curb is a bad move... The floor is yours...
I'm 100% with you on this. I personally use the IGB EVERY SINGLE TIME I play the game. The story for many other players is the same. It looks like most of the outrage has died down, which is very bad. CCP needs a huge backlash from this so that we have some chance of getting the IGB back.
I honestly think this warrants another Jita protest similar to the one back in 2011 over the microtransactions. It is abundantly clear that CCP refuses to listen to their player base even though the RESOUNDING MAJORITY of us are against this change. As said by Cismet, claiming that "development costs" are the reason for the removal of the IGB is total BS. Meanwhile they spend precious development time and money on features that NOBODY ASKED FOR such as the horrible new camera, terrible new probe scanner, captain's quarters (which nobody uses), and countless others. It's clear to me that at this point CCP cares more about form than function.
Here are Cismets posts on the matter if you want to read them, which, by the way, almost all of his posts have over 45 likes. This speaks volumes about how many people despise this needless change. http://eve-search.com/thread/485366-1/author/Cismet |
Pesadel0
the muppets Hell's Pirates
124
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 18:30:12 -
[400] - Quote
Thank God my corp left WH space before this change , the manner in witch i scan , and i think any citizen in WH scans like hell , i would have a stroke changing from one moniter to the next .
Furthermore i usually scan while watching videos so i would do more clicks per hour scanning , i know CCP stated that the IGB was going to the gutter but dam today i logged and spent like 10 minutes trying to find the IGB ;( .
|
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Ares Splinter
Bank Of Zion The Volition Cult
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:58:41 -
[401] - Quote
This is **** from CCP sry to say so we use this every single day for Corp link price check alot of other things
Remove this is a big mistake as useuel there is no what so ever commen sense when it come to usefull tools ingame..
i dump CCP for this
-10 standing to CCP for this
seem every time CCP come with a good exspand they take someting in return an hope we dont notes this..
BAD BAD BAD I SAY..
|
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 21:50:27 -
[402] - Quote
literally unplayable
ccpls |
Shadow51585
Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:05:54 -
[403] - Quote
We update our fittings all the time and having the ability to open fittings straight into game from Fleet-Up and such is super useful. This change is a giant pain in the ass to be perfectly honest. I've already started trying work arounds, but no matter what way you choose, it's at least 10x more of a pain to get fittings built off site into game so you can fit and know what you might need to train.
The in-game fitting storage is not good enough and has forced large alliances to use 3rd party tools for years. Then our best workarounds are shot down by a single move.
So many players use the IGB every day, and suddenly poof. It's just gone. Thanks for nothing. |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
13
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 01:46:26 -
[404] - Quote
And now I have to Alt+Tab to desktop to view the killboard in order to take care of Diplo/drama stuff which is a huge immersion breaker to me.
If your current team can't manage the game properly CCP, perhaps you should find more suitable people for the job. |
Cismet
Saiph Industries BIack Tie Affairs
69
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:38:07 -
[405] - Quote
Welp, you didn't listen to any of the players and blindly pushed on with your idiocy and removed the IGB. Congratulations, you are slowly pushing your only actual success story towards a slow grinding death.
You know, there's probably a reason why EvE has been your only actual success story. You got lucky. That's about the only explanation I can think of. You almost completely killed White Wolf when you bought them, they've never recovered. The WoD MMO never happened because you apparently can't project manage. Dust 514 required more work than you wanted so you just shut that down too.
You're actually a very bad games developer that got very lucky. Every single decision you appear to have made since then bears that out. The only good decisions you've made are the result of continuous pestering from the community that, in spite of your efforts to destroy the one good piece of IP you have, still loves this game. If you're very lucky, they'll keep you mainly on the right path, though as I said, you seem utterly determined to all end up unemployed so I'll hoist a glass to you from another game some time.
Well, good luck to you CCP, I think you'll need it as you seem completely determined to destroy yourselves. |
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
10
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 17:56:16 -
[406] - Quote
CCP, you say you hear our feedback, and there are threads in which you do.... Unfortunately, it seems you are just ignoring this one. The IGB has been a valuable asset for many of us, allowing us to check prices, killboards, jumps, etc. without breaking the immersion by alt-tabbing. Sometimes you might be in a cloaked orbit and want to check a player urgently (is he bait, isn't he ?) .. .do you really think that it is good practice to alt+tab and not see whether he suddenly changes course towards you or warps out or the D-scan gets full ?..
Anyway .. I am aware of the fact the IGB is old code full of security vulnerabilities ... but people with common sense know how to use it and avoid malicious sites. You know very well that you can get infected even when using the latest Chrome or Firefox or IE very easily if you don't have anti-malware installed. But if you do have it installed , it will also block any threat from the IGB and you don't need to worry too much about security.
Make the IGB a toggle in settings, throw a big warning on screen about not guaranteeing any security with it, advise the player to use it only at his/her own risk, but PLEASE bring it back somehow.
Thank you for hearing our voices !!
Feo. |
Chanta Ronuken
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 20:28:56 -
[407] - Quote
its like sum1 amputated my both arms.....thx 4 that, whoever had that stupid idea. Get a new Job and stop destroying eve plx... |
Cicirus
Debug the CODE
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 00:18:05 -
[408] - Quote
WOW - after reading the posts following mine from a few days ago, I am glad to see many others feel the same way about this. After logging in earlier today to try the game sans IGB, I agree with many that the game is nearly unplayable at least if, during gameplay, you want to use web-based tools to do any of the following:
- Analyze market trends\forces\opportunities
- Use maps
- Lookup recent killmails & histories
- Check for regional & system hotspots
- Real-time ganking research
- Mission analysis & reference
- Harvesting research
- The list goes on and on...
I find all of the above functions integral to playing the game but more importantly, integral to maximizing the player experience. Without the IGB, the only option left to us is having a dual-monitor rig which, while really cool, is not cost effective nor easy to justify for the average gamer.
While I doubt this will have any effect, I have started an online petition that can be accessed via the link below. Other than that, the only way I see this changing is due to massive player protest that hits CCP where they cannot ignore us - in the pocketbook or in somehow impacting the game. The former is challenging and the latter risks being banned from the game or worse yet, legal issues.
Net-net, we the players should not be required to even consider such things and frankly, we wouldn't need to if CCP just listened to their users as they once did. One thing I loved about the game back in 2010 was how inviting CCP was to the user community but even more so, how involved and integral to game development the players appeared to be. Seems much has changed regarding CCP's respect of us players...
Supremely lame...
https://www.change.org/p/ccp-ccp-bring-back-the-eve-online-in-game-browser-igb |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
34
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 03:40:32 -
[409] - Quote
Anyway to recover our bookmarks? |
Speared
Let's annoy'em
15
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 17:51:14 -
[410] - Quote
I guess the cause is lost. If people have not been outraged by now they will never be. It's pretty simple as vast majority of EVE players didn't need the IGB in the first place. Most of them are either carebears or lemming pvpers perfectly willing to follow orders and nothing else. There were of course those who used to have their mini-games that IGB allowed but who would care about those players?
So in theory everything is fine. However, if you take a look at server activity graph then you'll see that 2 years ago peaks were at even 57-60 thousand players online. Now in October 2016, the peaks are at 34 thousand players. So I guess those changes that were meant to imprve EVE and didn't affect most of EVE players made about 23 thousands of them vanish over the last 2 years. So how many of those 23 thousand players you did not listen to CCP?
Take a look at the Citadels for example. Before they were released peaks were at 40 thousand EVE players online. 2 months later peaks were only at 30 thousands EVE players online. So why the change? Perhaps because of the recurring opportunities which were a blasphemy to what EVE ever was and not even Citadels helped.
Let's look a bit earlier at the beginning of 2014 which had 57 thousand EVE players peak. I belive that in March 2014 the skins were introduced. And what were the peaks after that? Around 40 thousand players on the average. Were all gone because of microtransactions? I doubt that. But were many of those looking to paint their ships as a free expansion based on the subscription they pay? I would say so. I was one of them.
Too bad that server activity graph might not be as useful when EVE goes free 2 play in less than a month, so we won't know how many mini-games that EVE's made of you removed in favour of the vast majority which seems to be shrinking in volume with every "free" expansion you provide. |
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Cicirus
Debug the CODE
2
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Posted - 2016.10.16 21:42:31 -
[411] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Anyway to recover our bookmarks?
The patch notes discuss how to retrieve your bookmarks:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-yc118.9-release |
Sian Neue
Virgin Plc Evictus.
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 14:55:26 -
[412] - Quote
It would seem that the only mapping software that allows you to set destinatins (Dotlan) from the old IGB isnt being updated, or at least has not been to allow you to do the destination setting via crest. So setting anyy destination is now fairly complicated as the ingame map isnt really good for that kind of thing.
I am not a developer but couldnt the IGB just have stayed in game and sat there for these apps to use them and/or des anyone know of a mapping tool like dotlan that allows you to easily set a destination within the game. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6224
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 15:36:07 -
[413] - Quote
Sian Neue wrote:It would seem that the only mapping software that allows you to set destinatins (Dotlan) from the old IGB isnt being updated, or at least has not been to allow you to do the destination setting via crest. So setting anyy destination is now fairly complicated as the ingame map isnt really good for that kind of thing.
I am not a developer but couldnt the IGB just have stayed in game and sat there for these apps to use them and/or des anyone know of a mapping tool like dotlan that allows you to easily set a destination within the game.
Question:
How you do identify the system which you're wanting to go to? (you can always search for it with people and places)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Sian Neue
Virgin Plc Evictus.
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 19:21:49 -
[414] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Sian Neue wrote:It would seem that the only mapping software that allows you to set destinatins (Dotlan) from the old IGB isnt being updated, or at least has not been to allow you to do the destination setting via crest. So setting anyy destination is now fairly complicated as the ingame map isnt really good for that kind of thing.
I am not a developer but couldnt the IGB just have stayed in game and sat there for these apps to use them and/or des anyone know of a mapping tool like dotlan that allows you to easily set a destination within the game. Question: How you do identify the system which you're wanting to go to? (you can always search for it with people and places)
What I used to do was have dotlan open in the IGB with the tracking feature on, then find a system I want to go to choosing maybe by jumps, rats killed, ships killed etc, right click then off of one of the menus you could select that as a waypoint or destination and your route would be done, took seconds to do
Now I have to open dotlan in an external browser (or overview), make a note of that system name, open people and places, make sure search type is any type in the system name (hoping that I have not done a typo like a 0 for a o, or a i for a 1 and when it comes up, right click the destination.
Further evidence of the inconvenience of the IGB removal is say I wanted to travel to 9-FOB2 in Providence, I know it in my head as 9fob, but entering 9fob in search in game brings up nothing, so I have to look and remember there is a -, so I go to search and enter 9-fob, nothing appears (I am actually doing this in game as I type this Oh but it isnt 9-fob, it's 9-f0b (zero not an oh), now ive found it.
What took literally seconds before took much longer.
So yes I can search for it in people and places (assuming I know the correct spelling) but (in this example) using the feature in dotlan was easy and it was convenient, and now it is a lot more mucking around just to enter the name. I could use the in game map (hottible thing that that is) and I am presented with this, oh look there is 9-fob the very dull text up near the top.... or looking at dotlan in the next example, which is easier to see and use?
I am in 9uy here 2 jumps from 9fob and it is still difficukt to immediately see.
In Game Map - http://imgur.com/IBmj85G
Dotlan - http://imgur.com/rJ9Oqrh
I personally really just used dotlan in the IGB so that is where I am feeling frutrated, I wouldnt care if the IGB was taken out if the way that the map (dotlan) in this case was presented clearly to me, the in game map is not as easy to use as dotlan (see pictures) and I cannot see CCP developing an ingame map to have that same basic feel.
It also looks like dotlan isnt developed any more, I emailed the creator with no answer, his characters KB was last updated in 2015 (although not a definitive indicator of being in game, judging by the corp he is in I would except more loses.
Also saying that the information is there in crest for 3rd partes to use is great if 3rd parties do it, but if they dont then we are stuck... its like ship fittings, how can that be left to a 3rd party... what if no one every did a ship fitting tool, how do you think eve would look then? |
Isler Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet Wrong Hole.
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 22:43:40 -
[415] - Quote
Boooooo!!!!
I loved the IGB. Now I need a third monitor so I can look stuff up.
It's too bad CCP couldn't work with Mozilla or someone to make a plugin so that their browser would work within the Eve client. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 00:10:12 -
[416] - Quote
Quote:I personally really just used dotlan in the IGB so that is where I am feeling frutrated, I wouldnt care if the IGB was taken out if the way that the map (dotlan) in this case was presented clearly to me, the in game map is not as easy to use as dotlan (see pictures) and I cannot see CCP developing an ingame map to have that same basic feel.
Honestly I'm not sure if CCP realizes how bad the new map is as a map. Then again, all those threads about the map felt a solid bit like this.
When they have 'abstract' mode, couldn't they borrow the concept from dotlan ? Hell they could even have separate 2d plane per region with 3d connections sensibly presented ... They could borrow some ideas from how EvE PLH presents the map as well. People use those tools for a reason. There was also another impressive eve online map (though no longer available), forgot the name though.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl
|
Cicirus
Debug the CODE
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 21:57:49 -
[417] - Quote
OK - I am a Mac user and I have crafted a solution that is workable for me. First, it is important to point out that I only used the IGB for web access - I never any IGB-to-client functions - if that is what you need, then CREST is going to be your only hope.
The solution requires EasySIMBL, the Afloat plugin, and to play in windowed mode (i.e NOT Fullscreen). After SIMBL and Afloat are installed, you will be able to set a browser window to float, to be transparent, and sticky to all windows. What this allows me to do is move the browser window to somewhere nearly 100% off-screen where it will become transparent when the mouse is away from it. And then, when I need it, simply move the mouse over to it at such time that it becomes opaque again. I then bring it back into full view for usage.
I will admit that it does take a little practice to build up some muscle memory but that didn't take too long. And in fact, this might even be a little better than the IGB because Chrome\Safari\etc are so much more functional than the aged IGB.
Let me know if you need more details...
If you want the IGB back, please sign this: https://www.change.org/p/ccp-ccp-bring-back-the-eve-online-in-game-browser-igb
|
Sian Neue
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 14:23:29 -
[418] - Quote
@ Steve Ronuken I would be intterested in your reponse, you popped in answered with a question which I answered and now nothign... a bit like good mapping softare where i canset destinations from... i have nothing.
Sian Neue wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sian Neue wrote:It would seem that the only mapping software that allows you to set destinatins (Dotlan) from the old IGB isnt being updated, or at least has not been to allow you to do the destination setting via crest. So setting anyy destination is now fairly complicated as the ingame map isnt really good for that kind of thing.
I am not a developer but couldnt the IGB just have stayed in game and sat there for these apps to use them and/or des anyone know of a mapping tool like dotlan that allows you to easily set a destination within the game. Question: How you do identify the system which you're wanting to go to? (you can always search for it with people and places) What I used to do was have dotlan open in the IGB with the tracking feature on, then find a system I want to go to choosing maybe by jumps, rats killed, ships killed etc, right click then off of one of the menus you could select that as a waypoint or destination and your route would be done, took seconds to do Now I have to open dotlan in an external browser (or overview), make a note of that system name, open people and places, make sure search type is any type in the system name (hoping that I have not done a typo like a 0 for a o, or a i for a 1 and when it comes up, right click the destination. Further evidence of the inconvenience of the IGB removal is say I wanted to travel to 9-FOB2 in Providence, I know it in my head as 9fob, but entering 9fob in search in game brings up nothing, so I have to look and remember there is a -, so I go to search and enter 9-fob, nothing appears (I am actually doing this in game as I type this Oh but it isnt 9-fob, it's 9-f0b (zero not an oh), now ive found it. What took literally seconds before took much longer. So yes I can search for it in people and places (assuming I know the correct spelling) but (in this example) using the feature in dotlan was easy and it was convenient, and now it is a lot more mucking around just to enter the name. I could use the in game map (hottible thing that that is) and I am presented with this, oh look there is 9-fob the very dull text up near the top.... or looking at dotlan in the next example, which is easier to see and use? I am in 9uy here 2 jumps from 9fob and it is still difficukt to immediately see. In Game Map - http://imgur.com/IBmj85G Dotlan - http://imgur.com/rJ9Oqrh I personally really just used dotlan in the IGB so that is where I am feeling frutrated, I wouldnt care if the IGB was taken out if the way that the map (dotlan) in this case was presented clearly to me, the in game map is not as easy to use as dotlan (see pictures) and I cannot see CCP developing an ingame map to have that same basic feel. It also looks like dotlan isnt developed any more, I emailed the creator with no answer, his characters KB was last updated in 2015 (although not a definitive indicator of being in game, judging by the corp he is in I would except more loses. Also saying that the information is there in crest for 3rd partes to use is great if 3rd parties do it, but if they dont then we are stuck... its like ship fittings, how can that be left to a 3rd party... what if no one every did a ship fitting tool, how do you think eve would look then?
|
Arrek Lemmont
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2016.11.06 09:42:54 -
[419] - Quote
Since the removal of the in-game browser I have been playing a lot less EVE and a lot more of other games.
I live in nullsec and like the concept of a 'neighbourhood'. I always have evemaps.dotlan's radar open in an IGB window on the rightmost half of my right-hand monitor.
That said, I like to co-operate with my corp and map wormholes. We have a mapping tool that uses the IGB and works really well. That would usually be on the second tab of my IGB window.
Assuming these two tools get updated to use CREST, I will still be losing functionality. At the moment I used fixed window mode to span my two screens. Overwolf's overlay browser does not seem to work well. I'll be losing valuable screen real-estate to window borders if I have to switch to normal windowed mode. Also, losing keyboard focus when I alt-tab is a right royal PITA.
EVE is a complex game but these two essential tools made it enjoyable for me. I can't see how even CREST-enabled utility sites will replace the full functionality of being able to runs things in the IGB. |
Alan Greenspud
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 04:05:49 -
[420] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Alan Greenspud wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Siggy just needs to update to use the CREST way of tracking and they will be fine. If they choose not to, well good thing there are other WH mapping choices out there.
This comment is everything that is wrong with CCP today. You simply do not care about the work and effort you customers have put into tools to support your game, and you just poop on them because it serves your purpose. I'm not sure you understand who you're talking to. I really don't want to be rude so instead of trying to tell you how much I care I will suggest you go talk to any active third-party developer and ask them what they think of me. I know a few are a little annoyed with me and a few of the things I have done but I don't doubt they will all agree I care a HUGE amount about them and the work they do. Hell even right now a few of them are going to be upset they only have three months to do the work... but they still know how much I care. So please, don't give me this "CCP doesn't care" crap because it is complete garbage. That is just my comment in response to you thinking I don't care... for the sake of not being a complete ******* I am going to not respond to how you think I treat third-party devs.
If you think the last five years have been successful, then prove it by the numbers, CCP once used concurrent player count and subscriptions as a measure of success, which I and much of community agrees with, more that play more opportunity for fun, because that is the reason why all of us play this once amazing game. So please put up or shut up, because the concurrent player count has been slowly dying which is a huge indicator to the lack of success of EVE development.
Now if you're measuring success by another means, like say revenue than by all means EVE has been extremely successful, I'm sure revenue is up because you turned every new feature into a way for CCP to get paid, you turn your players into one big piggy bank. One big problem with this approach, While you can have a successful game with focus on revenue vs community growth but once the revenue goes negative, its only a matter of time before EVE Forever because EVE bankruptcy, and knowing that EVE has a time limit to how long it will be around vs the endless wonder this community once offered its gamers, the desire to player fades away along with the great memories we all once shared in this community.
So if you want to prove that you actually care, show us the success that EVE has enjoyed over the past five years, show us the increasing concurrent player counts or subscriptions? Instead all you can show us is increased revenue and strong return on investments on development for micro transaction features.
Not trying to be rude or anything but only thing you care about is $$$ and the proof is in the numbers ;) |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6249
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 12:23:32 -
[421] - Quote
Sian Neue wrote:@ Steve Ronuken I would be intterested in your reponse, you popped in answered with a question which I answered and now nothign... a bit like good mapping softare where i canset destinations from... i have nothing. Sian Neue wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Sian Neue wrote:It would seem that the only mapping software that allows you to set destinatins (Dotlan) from the old IGB isnt being updated, or at least has not been to allow you to do the destination setting via crest. So setting anyy destination is now fairly complicated as the ingame map isnt really good for that kind of thing.
I am not a developer but couldnt the IGB just have stayed in game and sat there for these apps to use them and/or des anyone know of a mapping tool like dotlan that allows you to easily set a destination within the game. Question: How you do identify the system which you're wanting to go to? (you can always search for it with people and places) What I used to do was have dotlan open in the IGB with the tracking feature on, then find a system I want to go to choosing maybe by jumps, rats killed, ships killed etc, right click then off of one of the menus you could select that as a waypoint or destination and your route would be done, took seconds to do Now I have to open dotlan in an external browser (or overview), make a note of that system name, open people and places, make sure search type is any type in the system name (hoping that I have not done a typo like a 0 for a o, or a i for a 1 and when it comes up, right click the destination. Further evidence of the inconvenience of the IGB removal is say I wanted to travel to 9-FOB2 in Providence, I know it in my head as 9fob, but entering 9fob in search in game brings up nothing, so I have to look and remember there is a -, so I go to search and enter 9-fob, nothing appears (I am actually doing this in game as I type this Oh but it isnt 9-fob, it's 9-f0b (zero not an oh), now ive found it. What took literally seconds before took much longer. So yes I can search for it in people and places (assuming I know the correct spelling) but (in this example) using the feature in dotlan was easy and it was convenient, and now it is a lot more mucking around just to enter the name. I could use the in game map (hottible thing that that is) and I am presented with this, oh look there is 9-fob the very dull text up near the top.... or looking at dotlan in the next example, which is easier to see and use? I am in 9uy here 2 jumps from 9fob and it is still difficukt to immediately see. In Game Map - http://imgur.com/IBmj85G Dotlan - http://imgur.com/rJ9Oqrh I personally really just used dotlan in the IGB so that is where I am feeling frutrated, I wouldnt care if the IGB was taken out if the way that the map (dotlan) in this case was presented clearly to me, the in game map is not as easy to use as dotlan (see pictures) and I cannot see CCP developing an ingame map to have that same basic feel. It also looks like dotlan isnt developed any more, I emailed the creator with no answer, his characters KB was last updated in 2015 (although not a definitive indicator of being in game, judging by the corp he is in I would except more loses. Also saying that the information is there in crest for 3rd partes to use is great if 3rd parties do it, but if they dont then we are stuck... its like ship fittings, how can that be left to a 3rd party... what if no one every did a ship fitting tool, how do you think eve would look then?
Ack. sorry. totally missed this response.
I'm currently doing some layout work to build a map layout like dotlan. It's just slow going, as automatic layouts are somewhat painful to get working in a reasonable fashion.
Once that's done, I may put in something which may do similar things.
(bear in mind, if all you want to do is type a name to set a destination, you can do that from people and places)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
842
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 12:47:12 -
[422] - Quote
Now if we could just get a favorites drop down in either the map or the "A" accessed routes menu. Who wants to open the notepad all the time. Plus multi tabs in the station inventory when added to there so items traded don't go straight to the bottom. Both long term items on the Little things list Good job Steve keep it up.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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