You are missing out one part. In the time I am talking about there were no strip miners. And mining was just a lot more interactive. Sure just unloading your cargo 2 times per minute is a tedious task, still it did not allow any real afk gameplay if you wanted to be even half way efficient. On top of that there were not that many people with multiple accounts and mining efficiently actually still required working as a team and the social interaction made it a lot less boring as well.

Still the main point I was making: the way mining was in the early days you had to sit in front of the pc the whole time if you wanted to get anywhere with mining. So I guess the devs back then were not sane ;).

Without the element of danger there is no thrill.

I wanted a fresh start buying the 5 month offered package. I find my carrier in a hostile station. Gm refused to move it to low sec. As i have no friends playing I opened my second account to get aout of there. At the end I kinda frustrated and quit for good...

I wanted a fresh start buying the 5 month offered package. I find my carrier in a hostile station. Gm refused to move it to low sec. As i have no friends playing I opened my second account to get aout of there. At the end I kinda frustrated and quit for good...

This may come as a shock to you...but people don't get into mining in EVE because they are thrill-seeking...

Where it up to meGäó there would never have been any players flying any non-combatant vessels. It's a bit of a contradiction that this "It's a PVP Game! HURF BLURF!" has non-combatant ships.

All mining and hauling would be done by NPCs, but if any player wanted to do those things, they would have to purchase those ships and hire the crews for them and then give them orders.

And like the NPC couriers we see outside of the stations, they could be fired on by anybody.

In a pre-crimewatch approach an antagonist becomes flashy red to the owner of an NPC ship under attack. So if you wanted to mine and haul, you had to be just as good at PVP as the people wanting to blow stuff up. The NPC ships would have been "Nostromo sized", or Pillar of Autumn size (from the inside at least - that run was way longer than the ship). It would take a fleet to kill them and it would take a while.

It would have also made botting meaningless as content that screamed to be botted would have been botted out of the box, but you had to be ready to defend them from players and NPC pirates alike. There would be no "fire and forget" involved. And those operating in deep null behind intel channels and gank pipelines would be dealing with both players and NPCs in dreads. (that is, we would not have had to wait this long for pirate dreads) .


But long ago someone said "let there be sheep" with a hope that Stockholm Syndrome would be something paying players would want to experience so hence the high turnover and this hunter and hunted thing. A good PVP time could have been had by all. Another game might get it differently in the future someday.

But that's the way I would have done it.

I think it was done to keep the econemy intact because they had not enough miners/Minerals but they overdid it. But just klicking to keep klicking isn't really the way to make mining thrilling. Without the element of danger there is no thrill.

Ah sov space...

This is where you just sneak into the region in an interceptor and put it up for *sale* - then spam their populated systems with the contract until someone buys it.

Then go re-buy it elsewhere.

Annoying? Yep. Going to lose a bit of money? Yep.
But that has been the fire-sale tradition in sov space forever
As for the petition - working as intended.

That is what I had to do. Couldn't get my carrier out before our systems fell. I did have a JC in the station though, so I JC'd there, put the stuff up on contracts and posted the contracts in local at a very nice price. The people living in our old space got a carrier, I got a nice load of ISK...so everyone is happy.

Oh, and not the first time I had to fire sale stuff. I mentioned that in local chatting with the guys there and the response was, "Yeah, we've all been there."

So confirming Dirty's statements...

Where it up to meGäó there would never have been any players flying any non-combatant vessels. It's a bit of a contradiction that this "It's a PVP Game! HURF BLURF!" has non-combatant ships.

All mining and hauling would be done by NPCs, but if any player wanted to do those things, they would have to purchase those ships and hire the crews for them and then give them orders.

And like the NPC couriers we see outside of the stations, they could be fired on by anybody.

In a pre-crimewatch approach an antagonist becomes flashy red to the owner of an NPC ship under attack. So if you wanted to mine and haul, you had to be just as good at PVP as the people wanting to blow stuff up. The NPC ships would have been "Nostromo sized", or Pillar of Autumn size (from the inside at least - that run was way longer than the ship). It would take a fleet to kill them and it would take a while.

But long ago someone said "let there be sheep" with a hope that Stockholm Syndrome would be something paying players would want to experience so hence the high turnover and this hunter and hunted thing. A good PVP time could have been had by all. Another game might get it differently in the future someday.

But that's the way I would have done it.

Why should every EVE player have to be a thrill-seeker or adrenaline junkie?

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody - they are making at least a small contribution to the game (arguably more in keeping others interested than in the minerals they provide, but whatever)... Why try to force them out of the game?

hard to believe.

when you unsub and get stuck at a hostile station after returning ...
... GMs usually move you with at least one ship and everything you can put into it.

assuming no alts used in that time, of course.

Why should every EVE player have to be a thrill-seeker or adrenaline junkie?

Socialites who mine to pay for "Chat Room Online" aren't hurting anybody - they are making at least a small contribution to the game (arguably more in keeping others interested than in the minerals they provide, but whatever)... Why try to force them out of the game?

Similarly the hard-core miners...what is wrong with them? These are the sorts of players who enjoy playing Minecraft without using any cheat-codes or modifications to make the game easier (they might mod it to make it harder). The sort who will actually excavate and mine until they *find* 10,000 diamonds to build a palace out of - just because they enjoy the process. Why should these players not have a place in EVE?

Even the AFK miners aren't *hurting* the game significantly...even if they don't add anything to it...

The only miners who are any kind of a problem are bots...and CCP has taken steps to minimize their impact as well. I would argue that botting carrier-ratters in 0.0 have a far greater impact in the modern EVE than botting miners do...and even that is fairly nonexistent for the most part.

If you want thrills and adventure and content...Then get out there and do the things that provide that. There is no reason mining has to be one of them...



As for your "Only Combat Ships" proposal, because "It's a PVP Game!"...I have a few things to say.....

#1) This is an odd sentiment for, if I recall correctly, an anti-ganker?

#2) Yes, in terms of PvP *Combat* content, the miners are sheep. However, most *good* miners who stick with EVE (and there are a surprisingly large number) find ways to deal with Combat players without unduly disrupting their mining operations. This is all part of the game - and I see no reason to punish them or remove their play-style just because they aren't dealing with Combat in the way you wish they would... Some people can't handle it, and they will quit - as long as they are the minority and/or they get replaced by new recruits, the game won't even notice. When that balance is upset - THAT is when CCP acts to change the game...but not to chase the rest of the miners out of the game - they only act to try to bring more players in, whatever form they may take.


#3) PvP DOES NOT ONLY MEAN COMBAT!!!

Seriously, get it through your thick skulls. PvP can take many forms - they do NOT all require weaponry or open combat. EVE is 100% a PvP game - *NOT* 100% a Combat game. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

Trust me, an active miner who collects a ton of ore and then speed-sells it at a rock-bottom price that crashes an entire market sector will draw far more tears than any PvP player killing a miner...Even if he never hears the crying/whining directly.

**** - even just mining out an ice belt before the other miners get a chance to get any will net you a boat-load of tears. PvP takes *many* forms.

I stopped reading

When it comes to making ISK it has always been a pretty "meh" process. Missions? Boring. Mining? Boring. Ratting in NS? Boring. PI? Boring. Reaction farms? Boring. Even alliance level ISK making is pretty awful. Moon mining? Boring. You have use a JF and make fuel blocks and on-lining and off-lining stuff is pretty boring. Managing a rental empire? Not all that different than working in property management I suspect. As a result we all try to find ways to make ISK with as little time spent in game as possible....or we tend to go semi-AFK.

When it comes to making ISK it has always been a pretty "meh" process. Missions? Boring. Mining? Boring. Ratting in NS? Boring. PI? Boring. Reaction farms? Boring. Even alliance level ISK making is pretty awful. Moon mining? Boring. You have use a JF and make fuel blocks and on-lining and off-lining stuff is pretty boring. Managing a rental empire? Not all that different than working in property management I suspect. As a result we all try to find ways to make ISK with as little time spent in game as possible....or we tend to go semi-AFK.

in which MMO is making money not a boring task?

Yeah, I got that...you clearly didn't read a word I wrote...I presume because you don't know how.

edit:
So just for the official record -

Per Herzog Wolfhammer:

Anti-Gankers think all non-combat pilots should be forcibly removed from the game.


And I'm bad because I disagree?

I'm flattered that you think my opinions on how I would have made this game (entirely a fantasy) is the opinion of AG.

If you will excuse, I must go put on my hoody and issue some orders to AG....


There are others in AG whose ideas and opinions on various matters would be closer to the pulse of AG generally.

But until you figure that out, I'll bask in the power you presume I have. Now scurry away quickly, peasant.

The funny part is: back in the days before mining ships with huge cargo holds existed you actually were forced to sit in front of your pc the whole time, because you had to unload your cargo after every mining cycle.

No, I don't think you have any significance - but you *have* claimed to be an anti-ganker...and acted as if you thought your view was one commonly held by the rest...


Regardless of the official anti-ganker stance however - you *do* confirm that is your personal opinion?

Even CODE. doesn't say that CCP should just step in and forcibly remove all non-combat play-styles from the game...They just rely on limited in-game mechanics to encourage more active play and less mining...

Literally, you are harsher towards miners than CODE.

Think about that...



Also any CODE. members who are still reading this thread - good material for a future minerbumping entry here perhaps - we all know how much James loves his propaganda

I've always wondered at the players that look at accumulation of ISK as a goal of the game. Seems so pointless, and no doubt the reason that so many players feel bored playing.

I do believe that the whole purpose of a game is to keep score, using some metric or other. But wallet-balance never made sense to me.

KB

I think you will find that Herzog has gathered rather a large amount of ganker tears by some quite fun, while it lasted of course freighter wreck ganks... They are quite welcome to talk about his exploits if they wish, but somehow I doubt it.

Herzog is not a leader in the AG and neither am I for that matter.

He is not being harsh about miners, he is suggesting a more interesting game play in terms of mining, so you don't have to sit there in a non-combat ship with a bulls eye painted on your noggin...

He is not being harsh about miners, he is suggesting a more interesting game play in terms of mining, so you don't have to sit there in a non-combat ship with a bulls eye painted on your noggin...

Plus plex being over a bill isn't going to help numbers, in fact in less than 18 hours this account becomes deactivated, always said I won't pay over a bill for plex and unfortunately it's happened so hopefully it will go under slightly sometime soon.

*edit* found one for 958 so extended for another month, phew.