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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:26:00 - [1] Ok heres the deal, we've talked about reducing speed and stuff like that. Everybody seemed to be in the agreement that some kind of a stacking penalty was the way to go. Here's the problem with that, there are two many things that are being modified. We have the speed obviously, we have the mass which indirectly increases speed of mwd and and we have the propellant injection vent which increases the boost of the mwd. Up until rigs there were only two ways modules affected speed. So when the propellant injection vent came along it gave an option of 15% boost which wasn't really stacking nerfed and more importantly couldn't be stacking nerfed with the other modules rigs. So knowing we **** up it would be great idea to go back through time and take the rig out but thats hardly possible. So we did the next best thing we could. We morphed it into another rig, mainly the auxiliary thrusters one. Why didn't you tell us I was going to honest. We was debating whether we wanted any sort of market speculation going (anyone remember tractor beams incident?) but we figured there would be no way to exploit that knowledge to your advantage. So I was gonna post to day but because of a little miscommunication between me and the operation guy that actually did it he did it today and not in the downtime before the next patch. Zomg my ship goes a lot slower That was rather the point. What happens now, well after next patch that is overdrives will be stacking nerfed together with mwd and auxiliary thrusters, nanofibers will be stacking nerfed with each other and polycarbon engine housing so velocity doesn't come down to who's got the most low slots. Will I be compensated for the rig?** I'd would like no one to feel screwed over but in reality its just unavoidable and we can't compensate everyone in a way they think they should be. In the end I'd just like to apologize for not announcing it sooner and that we had to go this way to fix the problem. P.S. Because of our little misunderstanding Tech 2 versions are still dropping so we're running that script again before downtime on patch day and after that they won't drop any more. _______________

Antebellum Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:29:00 - [2] Bah for not letting me sell my stock (so someone else could feel ripped off instead)
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:29:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 16/03/2007 13:26:33 Tux, props to you for not telling anyone. When you do tell, it creates a massive selling frenzy and screws up the market. The tractor beam incident was hilarious though! --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
qvacky AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:30:00 - [4] Edited by: qvacky on 16/03/2007 13:30:04 Just a shame you swapped it for a rig that uses 1/3 of the components, and is worth 1/3 as much. At least this explains why i suddenly have two Aux thruster bpos, and can't figure out why i don't have 77 different ones :) Is there any chance of dropping all the aux thruster rigs off the ships now, so we can swap them for something more useful? I really don't want to have to repackage my ships...
Jaggeh Gallente Furious Angels	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:32:00 - [5] will you allow people to remove specific changed rigs so they can re-use the slot example i have 2 armor rigs and 1 speed rig now defunct, will you remove the speed rig via petition so i can use the slot for something else rather than having to repack the ship and lose all 3 rigs...? --------------------------------------- Furious Angels are recruiting Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Chribba on 16/03/2007 13:32:51 Edit: OK actually read through the post now and I understand the why's and so, am a little mad about it since I like going fast but I guess I have to take that speed drop with the good and hope the changes are for the better. Help me help you .

hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:37:00 - [7] Love you Tux == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:38:00 - [8] Sigh, I just bought 120m of rigs yesterday, almost all my isk. Great. I thouht i had two weeks in which to have some fun. Welcome back to eve \o/

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Jaggeh will you allow people to remove specific changed rigs so they can re-use the slot example i have 2 armor rigs and 1 speed rig now defunct, will you remove the speed rig via petition so i can use the slot for something else rather than having to repack the ship and lose all 3 rigs...? If you're not using multiple overdrives on your ship that rig gives you almost as much increase as the propellant injection vent. But to answer your question then no, I'd like to and its really up to the GMs but I think its just too much work. On that thought though, I'd personally like that you could just trash individual rigs. I'm fine with the idea that rigs are permanent but sometimes you make mistake, that projectile rig you were going to fit might just boost the grid use over acceptable levels. _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 16/03/2007 13:32:51 Edit: OK actually read through the post now and I understand the why's and so, am a little mad about it since I like going fast but I guess I have to take that speed drop with the good and hope the changes are for the better. Look you can still go fast, trust me on that, I don't think we've seen the last of nano ships. Now however a cruiser or a frigate can sacrifice as much as a nano battleship and be faster. _______________


Antebellum Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Tuxford I'd personally like that you could just trash individual rigs. I'm fine with the idea that rigs are permanent but sometimes you make mistake, that projectile rig you were going to fit might just boost the grid use over acceptable levels. That would be very nice, just like other implants.

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Velsharoon Sigh, I just bought 120m of rigs yesterday, almost all my isk. Great. I thouht i had two weeks in which to have some fun. Welcome back to eve \o/ you can still do that but you won't be invincible, you'll be damn hard to kill though. _______________

Alita Tiphares	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Velsharoon Sigh, I just bought 120m of rigs yesterday, almost all my isk. Great. I thouht i had two weeks in which to have some fun. Welcome back to eve \o/ You wont find any sympathy for nano*****s here.
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:45:00 - [14] Ah well, at least it is one BPO less to research for my Perfect ME Rig BPO sets. Tux, now with this BPO removed are you going to seed the two missing drone rig BPOs instead?

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Ah well, at least it is one BPO less to research for my Perfect ME Rig BPO sets. Tux, now with this BPO removed are you going to seed the two missing drone rig BPOs instead? We chickened out on the drone damage rig, I know cowardly and all but we've made the rig and try to get in balancing after next patch. _______________

Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:49:00 - [16] Just wondering Tux, do you want nano battleships(phoon and domi) to be viable setups post patch? If so, what kind of speeds and agility do you think is acceptable. Should 100 million ISK invested in a nano dominix be enough to tank a T1 raven? At the moment, a 200 million ISK dominix setup is able to orbit at 2.2 km/s with an orbit range of 21km on SiSi. Its not possible to tank a T1 fitted cruise raven at all with this setup. Is this how you want nano battleships to be?
juduzz Amarr Memento.Mori	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:51:00 - [17] Edited by: juduzz on 16/03/2007 13:48:38 REALY annoying about the stealthness about it but definately needed, a step in the right direction even if alot of us have lost out on 100-200mill :/
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:52:00 - [18] I bet you ****ed off a hell of a lot of ppl today, gratz! It's too bad you guys can't test stuff more thoroughly before you release it, then yank it back screwing over your customers... Building the homestead
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Velsharoon Sigh, I just bought 120m of rigs yesterday, almost all my isk. Great. I thouht i had two weeks in which to have some fun. Welcome back to eve \o/ you can still do that but you won't be invincible, you'll be damn hard to kill though. Aye im flying it right now like. Dont mind that much as i know the nerf had to come and will prob enjoy it more flying normal setups :) Dont want sympathy or anything..just my 100m emo tear
Moneta II	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Just wondering Tux, do you want nano battleships(phoon and domi) to be viable setups post patch? If so, what kind of speeds and agility do you think is acceptable. Should 100 million ISK invested in a nano dominix be enough to tank a T1 raven? At the moment, a 200 million ISK dominix setup is able to orbit at 2.2 km/s with an orbit range of 21km on SiSi. Its not possible to tank a T1 fitted cruise raven at all with this setup. Is this how you want nano battleships to be? So you want Battle Ships to be able to speedtank? Think about it a bit. BattleShip = Big bulky ship with lots of firepower. Those kinda ships shouldnt zip around at insane speeds. Thats what frigs and to a lesser extent cruisers are made for.

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:56:00 - [21] Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Just wondering Tux, do you want nano battleships(phoon and domi) to be viable setups post patch? If so, what kind of speeds and agility do you think is acceptable. Should 100 million ISK invested in a nano dominix be enough to tank a T1 raven? At the moment, a 200 million ISK dominix setup is able to orbit at 2.2 km/s with an orbit range of 21km on SiSi. Its not possible to tank a T1 fitted cruise raven at all with this setup. Is this how you want nano battleships to be? Ever thought that massive, mile-long hulking battleships weren't meant to effectively speed tank? --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 13:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Moneta II Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Just wondering Tux, do you want nano battleships(phoon and domi) to be viable setups post patch? If so, what kind of speeds and agility do you think is acceptable. Should 100 million ISK invested in a nano dominix be enough to tank a T1 raven? At the moment, a 200 million ISK dominix setup is able to orbit at 2.2 km/s with an orbit range of 21km on SiSi. Its not possible to tank a T1 fitted cruise raven at all with this setup. Is this how you want nano battleships to be? So you want Battle Ships to be able to speedtank? Think about it a bit. BattleShip = Big bulky ship with lots of firepower. Those kinda ships shouldnt zip around at insane speeds. Thats what frigs and to a lesser extent cruisers are made for. This brings up a whole other discussions about missiles vs. turrets. Missiles aren't that affected by velocity of target unless its going at some insane speed, but you can easy "speedtank" turrets with an afterburner and a few nanos. _______________

Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:00:00 - [23] Yeah Im with you. 100mil is to cheap for a 2,2km/s flying bs. On the other side..you could just fit it like a bs and kill the raven without problems..

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 16/03/2007 13:32:51 Edit: OK actually read through the post now and I understand the why's and so, am a little mad about it since I like going fast but I guess I have to take that speed drop with the good and hope the changes are for the better. Look you can still go fast, trust me on that, I don't think we've seen the last of nano ships. Now however a cruiser or a frigate can sacrifice as much as a nano battleship and be faster. Meh I dropped from 17.3km/s to 15.4km/s on my speed miner Help me help you .

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:03:00 - [25] Edited by: Aramendel on 16/03/2007 14:01:02 The problem is more that if you rig your ship for speed you are gonna maximize it. And since overdrives are far FAR more useful to maximize your speed it is pretty pointless to use aux thrusters for speed fittings due to the stacking penality. Essentially, with the new patch thruster rigs are worthless. Housing rigs will be far far more useful if you want to max your speed. It would have been more "fair" just to remove the vents entirely without replacing them, that way people who had not all their rig slots filled with them could at least have saved the other rigs they had installed. Now those will be wasted too since they'll have to repackage they ships since the thruster mods are a waste of a rig space if you use overdrives as well. It might be a good idea to balance the rigs with the modules, because right now this isn't the case. Rigs vs modules (t1 vs t2, but t1 rigs are still a good deal more expensive than t2 modules (at least once their price stabilizes): +speed: 10% vs 20% (rig a LOT worse than the module) -inertia: 15% vs 20 (rig slightly worse than the module) -mass: 15% vs 12.5% (rig slightly better than the module)
Antebellum Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Tuxford This brings up a whole other discussions about missiles vs. turrets. Missiles aren't that affected by velocity of target unless its going at some insane speed, but you can easy "speedtank" turrets with an afterburner and a few nanos. Yes, but fact that missiles are nearly useless at long range (in all but PvE) does, in my opinion, warrant some advantage at close range.
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Moneta II Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Just wondering Tux, do you want nano battleships(phoon and domi) to be viable setups post patch? If so, what kind of speeds and agility do you think is acceptable. Should 100 million ISK invested in a nano dominix be enough to tank a T1 raven? At the moment, a 200 million ISK dominix setup is able to orbit at 2.2 km/s with an orbit range of 21km on SiSi. Its not possible to tank a T1 fitted cruise raven at all with this setup. Is this how you want nano battleships to be? So you want Battle Ships to be able to speedtank? Think about it a bit. BattleShip = Big bulky ship with lots of firepower. Those kinda ships shouldnt zip around at insane speeds. Thats what frigs and to a lesser extent cruisers are made for. This brings up a whole other discussions about missiles vs. turrets. Missiles aren't that affected by velocity of target unless its going at some insane speed, but you can easy "speedtank" turrets with an afterburner and a few nanos. True indeed, one might even say that nano tank + damps is a speed tank. However, the question still remains, how do you envision nano battleships after this fix? Will they still be a fresh breath for solo PvPers? Will they be anything like they were pre revelations? Nobody complained back then anyway.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Ah well, at least it is one BPO less to research for my Perfect ME Rig BPO sets. Tux, now with this BPO removed are you going to seed the two missing drone rig BPOs instead? We chickened out on the drone damage rig, I know cowardly and all but we've made the rig and try to get in balancing after next patch. Do you mean the sentry drone damage rig or are you going to be really cool and make it work on drones people use in PvP too? Either way, thanks a lot for the explanation/apology.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:10:00 - [29] Lol, yesterday I wa s going to buy 3 prop vent. But was tired and decided to let it for teh other day.. I never had luck like that before... :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger True indeed, one might even say that nano tank + damps is a speed tank. However, the question still remains, how do you envision nano battleships after this fix? Will they still be a fresh breath for solo PvPers? Will they be anything like they were pre revelations? Nobody complained back then anyway. I don't think nano battleship is anything that was ever planned by anyone at CCP it just sort of happend,... twice (or more?). I'd definitly say that they are still viable, of course you would have problems with missile ships but in reality, turret ships aren't going to hit you and they won't get in web range if you're faster. You can't kill everything but if you're careful you can run away from those instances. _______________


Napolie Gallente Hybrid Syndicate Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:11:00 - [31] ♥ Thats my opinion about this post A really constructive solution to a tricky problem too Originally by: Tuxford Zomg my ship goes a lot slower
Talasan The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:12:00 - [32] lol, wish i hadnt bought 2 of the dam things for my vaga, now it has 2 aux's, speed boost is totally crap "minmatar got the shaft again? sure ill bend over right away"

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Antebellum Originally by: Tuxford This brings up a whole other discussions about missiles vs. turrets. Missiles aren't that affected by velocity of target unless its going at some insane speed, but you can easy "speedtank" turrets with an afterburner and a few nanos. Yes, but fact that missiles are nearly useless at long range (in all but PvE) does, in my opinion, warrant some advantage at close range. Oh absolutely, missiles also have the drawback that the signature radius factor is independant from velocity which means that no matter how much you web a smaller ship you can't hit for **** if its got a small signature radius. I'm just pointing out that missiles and turrets are different kind of weapon systems, each with their advantages and disadvantages. _______________


Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Napolie ♥ Thats my opinion about this post A really constructive solution to a tricky problem too It was a dirty hack to be honest but we couldn't find anyway around it. I hope we never have to do it again. _______________

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 16/03/2007 14:12:58 Tux, can you comment anything on the new stats on speed modules on sisi? And the comunity concern that will only bennefit Nos drone ships (no problem with cargo reduction because they don't need ammo neither cap boost charges)? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Stella Centauri Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:14:00 - [36] Thank you thank you thank you for doing something for us non-alliance-lackeys, making our pvp fun again! Much love!
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:17:00 - [37] Wtf!!! Come on give my money back, it has costed me 60 mil to switch from Aux to Vents and one month later, you change it. Are you even thinking before changing it? No wonder DEVs allow themselves so much in this game... Give my money back!!!
Napolie Gallente Hybrid Syndicate Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Wtf!!! Come on give my money back, it has costed me 60 mil to switch from Aux to Vents and one month later, you change it. Are you even thinking before changing it? No wonder DEVs allow themselves so much in this game... Give my money back!!! Its as they say "Easy come easy go" Now be quiet the devs announced that a nanonerf was upcomming quite some time ago Originally by: Tuxford Zomg my ship goes a lot slower
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 16/03/2007 14:01:02 The problem is more that if you rig your ship for speed you are gonna maximize it. And since overdrives are far FAR more useful to maximize your speed it is pretty pointless to use aux thrusters for speed fittings due to the stacking penality. There's a reason it's called the "nanoship" not the "overdriveship", and it's all about agility.
Diss Champ Amarr Synergy.	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:25:00 - [40] Well, on the bright side, I didn't have a bunch of speed rigs in place yet. One thing to note however, is that in general midslots were already better than low slots for PVP- one of the many drawbacks of Amarr- and speed mods were/are one of the few things that throwing enough quantity of slots at could allow a qualitative difference at (ie, break the missle damage threshold). So as you crank up the various nerfs to low slot speed mods, don't forget that you're also kicking the races that are already down (Amarr, because we are the ones with the low slots, and Minmatar, because they are the race that is most supposed to rely on speed, and are built so they can shield tank mids and speed mod lows if they want a fast setup). Also remember that haulers and transports are going to be crying out in pain, as nanos are pretty standard in that world.

Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger True indeed, one might even say that nano tank + damps is a speed tank. However, the question still remains, how do you envision nano battleships after this fix? Will they still be a fresh breath for solo PvPers? Will they be anything like they were pre revelations? Nobody complained back then anyway. I don't think nano battleship is anything that was ever planned by anyone at CCP it just sort of happend,... twice (or more?). I'd definitly say that they are still viable, of course you would have problems with missile ships but in reality, turret ships aren't going to hit you and they won't get in web range if you're faster. You can't kill everything but if you're careful you can run away from those instances. Thanks for the answer, indeed. I must say tho, that I still think nano battleships pre revelations were good enough, yet not imbalanced. I doubt people will fly battleships with nano/istabs after this patch tho, as they'll be a lot easier to counter(webbing drones are obvious counters), and the lack of agility makes them less viable for solo/small gang warfare.
Scordef	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:26:00 - [42] CCP. How not to deal with customers 101.
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Napolie Originally by: Ewa Quillam Wtf!!! Come on give my money back, it has costed me 60 mil to switch from Aux to Vents and one month later, you change it. Are you even thinking before changing it? No wonder DEVs allow themselves so much in this game... Give my money back!!! Its as they say "Easy come easy go" Now be quiet the devs announced that a nanonerf was upcomming quite some time ago Do I give a ****??? I've bought them more than one month ago and fitted them on a vagabond.

Tuxford	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Jaggeh will you allow people to remove specific changed rigs so they can re-use the slot example i have 2 armor rigs and 1 speed rig now defunct, will you remove the speed rig via petition so i can use the slot for something else rather than having to repack the ship and lose all 3 rigs...? If you're not using multiple overdrives on your ship that rig gives you almost as much increase as the propellant injection vent. But to answer your question then no, I'd like to and its really up to the GMs but I think its just too much work. On that thought though, I'd personally like that you could just trash individual rigs. I'm fine with the idea that rigs are permanent but sometimes you make mistake, that projectile rig you were going to fit might just boost the grid use over acceptable levels. Actually I've been told that this might actually be in next patch. So don't just repackage your ship just yet I'm not totally sure so don't hold me to it. _______________

Gunstar Zero Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:37:00 - [45] Edited by: Gunstar Zero on 16/03/2007 14:33:17 taken my un-ganged crow from 15k/s -> 14k/s I can live with that.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:37:00 - [46] I originally posted a new thread to keep this one on topic, but ISD decided to bring its own nerd bat onto my thread. In this thread I will thank Tuxford: For doing the best nerf of my time. Being only a year young at this game this is the first time I have seen the nerf bat come down to this effect. So now your asking, what makes this the best nerf? Well I prepared a little check list: - Major hot topic issue that has spawned many threads with even the pilots of said 'stacked' ships posting that they were unbalanced - check - Conducting a stealth nerf to prevent whining on the forums for 123129 days until implimented - check - Tuxford actually posting about said nerf after it was conducted - check - Turning something that was valuable into something that is, well, not so much anymore - check - Not breaking the balance for MWD/Blaster ships - check So for this Tuxford, I will enjoy a tall pint of beer tonight and lawl loudly at those who will, like clock work, begin crying foul. Cheers Mr.Tuxford, I await the fall of your nerf bat once more. Thread in question: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=491976 "Originally by: Tuxford It was a dirty hack to be honest but we couldn't find anyway around it. I hope we never have to do it again." (Disclaimer: - NO I don't fly nano ships - YES I hated nano ships - NO I don't build rigs - YES I fly a Blaster Mega) --- [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
CamelKnight III Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Tuxford I don't think nano battleship is anything that was ever planned by anyone at CCP it just sort of happend,... twice (or more?). Not pointing fingers or trying to insult anyone here, but this quote makes me realise that even CCP doesn't foresee the entire picture once they come up with something new. How you deal with that conclusion is your choice, ofcourse. On topic: it's a good thing this has been nerfed eventhough I feel that a BS going 2.2km/s is still too fast for anything that big. It doesn't make sense in the 'real world'. Something with a lot of mass needs more power to move. Moving faster means exponentially more power. I bet there are ppl here that could work the numbers for you, but I can't so I wont bother. It's just a shame that you guys had to resort, again, to such a half-behinded way to solve things.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:38:00 - [48] about time :) N.F.F. Recruitment
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:42:00 - [49] So, how much difference did todays change do to nanophoons/nanodomis? Anyone with before/after stats? "In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio
Stella Centauri Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Originally by: Napolie Originally by: Ewa Quillam Wtf!!! Come on give my money back, it has costed me 60 mil to switch from Aux to Vents and one month later, you change it. Are you even thinking before changing it? No wonder DEVs allow themselves so much in this game... Give my money back!!! Its as they say "Easy come easy go" Now be quiet the devs announced that a nanonerf was upcomming quite some time ago Do I give a **??? I've bought them more than one month ago and fitted them on a vagabond. Exactly! You dont give a **! This is for the game, not for you! Cant say you didnt buy the vagabond and all those rigs for it because it was overpowered can you?

Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Jarjar So, how much difference did todays change do to nanophoons/nanodomis? Anyone with before/after stats? 4.0km/s to 3.6km/s, orbit speed is roughly unchanged. Think I heard of a phoon going from 9km/s to 7km/s, but thats it.
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:48:00 - [52] And after the speed module "nerf" on sisi ?
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:49:00 - [53] Just had a lot of kills on mine, so i guess the full impact will be felt in the patch
Sir Erighan Caldari Blue Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:50:00 - [54] Man, some of you guys are real tools. This happens in every game, every time. Something becomes too powerful, the community discusses it for ages, the devs makes a change based on popular demand....and you still get people complaining. No one cares you lost money. You enjoyed taking advantage of a system, as many others before you did. I'm sure you had loads of fun, kills, noobs drooling at your uber speeds, etc, but it's over. And who cares if it was a stealth nerf. The only reason people would be mad is because they wanted to try and sell their ships off to some unsuspecting noob for $$$. Which I'm sure they're tying to do anyway...
Talasan The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Sir Erighan Man, some of you guys are real tools. This happens in every game, every time. Something becomes too powerful, the community discusses it for ages, the devs makes a change based on popular demand....and you still get people complaining. No one cares you lost money. You enjoyed taking advantage of a system, as many others before you did. I'm sure you had loads of fun, kills, noobs drooling at your uber speeds, etc, but it's over. And who cares if it was a stealth nerf. The only reason people would be mad is because they wanted to try and sell their ships off to some unsuspecting noob for $$$. Which I'm sure they're tying to do anyway... its more to the point that a day or 2 ago people paid 40mill for a rig that got changed to one that takes a 3rd of the resoruces to build and costs like 10mill, the nerf was needed, we all know that, that isnt why people are upset. its their hard earned isk "minmatar got the shaft again? sure ill bend over right away"
Tiuwaz Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:54:00 - [56] when is the next patch scheduled so we can enjoy the rest of the nano nerf? oh and good call on this issue ___________________________________
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:55:00 - [57] Originally by: Joerd Toastius There's a reason it's called the "nanoship" not the "overdriveship", and it's all about agility. Wrong. It's about agility in addition to speed. Each alone is realtively useless, the combination makes it strong. Nanos gave both speed AND agility. Now you have to use a combination of ODs and instabs for it. With nanos filling the role of weight reducing, but housing rigs are a better alternitve for those on sisi.
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Venkhar Krard And after the speed module "nerf" on sisi ? 4km/s to 2.1km/s, after some tinkering, 2.8km/s with battlecruiserish agility. Max orbit speed is 2.2km/s with a radius of 20km.
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:56:00 - [59] I agree with most of the others here....changing it is one thing, not telling us is another, but forcing us to throw away the rig to get the useful slot back is another entirely. At least make it so the rig can be taken out...give it a 7 day window for removal or something. The rigs in now do not help anywhere near as much as they did before, and I would like to change them. Except I can't without destroying it, so not only is it less valuable to begin with (to say nothing of the bpo!) but now I have to completely destroy the thing to be able to use the slot...all over something that I had no control over. It wasn't like I knew you were going to change the rigs. I knew you would do something about the nanos, but my impression was that it would simply be a nano nerf...not a rig/nano/istab universal nerf. I should have expected to get a very big nerf, that much is true, so I guess that much is my fault. But the bottom line is that I am being punished for something I had no control over.
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Ewa Quillam on 16/03/2007 14:57:22 Originally by: Sir Erighan No one cares you lost money. You enjoyed taking advantage of a system, as many others before you did. I'm sure you had loads of fun, kills, noobs drooling at your uber speeds, etc, but it's over. Not too bright are you? People build things that are more expensive than other things and perform better. Then over the night there is no difference between them. How can you not be mad? Let's say you construct engines. You build 100hp engines. Over the night they say 100hp engines should be detuned to 80hp. How would you react? Then there are people who buy things that do more than others do. Then over the night there is no difference between them. How can you not be mad? Let's say you bought a car. Your car has 100hp. Over the night they say 100hp cars should be detuned to 80hp. How would you react? And then, how did I abuse my expensive vagabond that was meant for speed anyway? Not too bright, but hell, not the only one either... Yeah, nano BS were going too fast, agreed. But reimburse us for those rigs that are useless now. Anyway, petition incoming.

Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:59:00 - [61] Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 16/03/2007 14:56:35 Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger 4km/s to 2.1km/s, after some tinkering, 2.8km/s with battlecruiserish agility. Max orbit speed is 2.2km/s with a radius of 20km. Thats not that bad. Now you need to choose the right target. Its not an universal setup anymore. Thats how it should be.
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:02:00 - [62] I¦m still waiting for that Dev Blog Tuxford. ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Venkhar Krard Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 16/03/2007 14:56:35 Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger 4km/s to 2.1km/s, after some tinkering, 2.8km/s with battlecruiserish agility. Max orbit speed is 2.2km/s with a radius of 20km. Thats not that bad. Now you need to choose the right target. Its not an universal setup anymore. Thats how it should be. Problem is that anyone who has heavy webbing drones will have an easy time taking you down or forcing you to warp away. Battlecruiserish agility means that you have to be very careful with blobs/ganks squads, so you're better off with a regular tank (keep in mind that a dominix doing 2.8km/s will cost roughly 200 million ISK).
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:08:00 - [64] It seems that the wheel has come full circle again for inertia stabilisers. They've had their brief few months of popularity and now they're set to be practically useless again. People trying to make large ships go fast will need to fit overdrives and nanofibers just to increase their speed, and people with smaller, more agile ships will just fit nanofibers (which still give an indirect agility bonus). I suggest removing the agility stacking penalty and the signature radius penalty that inertia stabilisers are stuck with from when they also reduced mass. A ship that's really agile but not terribly fast isn't so dangerous, is it? ------ Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) Army of doom headcount: 26,045
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Problem is that anyone who has heavy webbing drones will have an easy time taking you down or forcing you to warp away. Depends. Those things die really REALLY fast if you can send a bunch of meds or lights vs them. And reduced agility also means that it will take them longer to have a real impact, so you have more time to kill them. Managed to kill 3 webber drones from a pest in like 20 seconds with my cruse on sisi.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:24:00 - [66] Well executed needed nerf. And this from pilot who loved to breeze around in BS at 16km/s (w/ gang mods). Originally by: Ewa Quillam who buy things .. How can you not be mad? Let's see: - speed nerf announced in advance check -> Everyone who invested on speed things should have been aware its for short term only -> Those who didn't want waste ISK had plenty of time to sell their speed thingies Thus if you still feeling mad, leave the game out of it and solve your issues in RL. Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. Still hope CCP would implement some cost/penalty on 'useless' petitions. -Lasse
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:32:00 - [67] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. idiot much?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:41:00 - [68] The words "Don't buy what you can't afford to be nerfed" come to mind, especially when most people could see that a nerf was incoming. Good move, Tux. I do hope you already had something in mind about what Aramendal said on page 1: Quote: It might be a good idea to balance the rigs with the modules, because right now this isn't the case. Rigs vs modules (t1 vs t2, but t1 rigs are still a good deal more expensive than t2 modules (at least once their price stabilizes): +speed: 10% vs 20% (rig a LOT worse than the module) -inertia: 15% vs 20 (rig slightly worse than the module) -mass: 15% vs 12.5% (rig slightly better than the module) Also, even though I have no rigs yet myself, I hope that the trashing of individual fitted rigs feature you mentioned comes through. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:42:00 - [69] I do agree that the overall speed of ships is getting silly (15km/sec in a battleship is wrong) but I really dont want to see a serious witch hunt going on that destroys anyone's chances in intercepting snipers etc. I fly a Vagabond, on its own it is a very capable ship, but it is no battleship, The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat. Developer: Thukker Mix Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements. Now to nerf this ship inline with ships that were never meant to be 'lightening fast' would be a crying shame. But I can see this is the way we are going. A Vaga is for life, not just for downtime. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:42:00 - [70] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. ...which smacks of 'kid spitting dummy out' syndrome I'm afraid. You do realise this will achieve absolutely nothing other than adding to the petition backlog right?... back on topic; moohahahha.... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:42:00 - [71] If you guys were really smart you would have removed those rigs and replaced them with the base material cost that it takes to make them, I mean the salvaged items.
Stormers Girlfriend	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:43:00 - [72] Thanks guys. I have been quite looking forward to this, as it seems almost every small gang/solo player is nanoing their BS's lately. Hopefully this change will result in more fun fights and less insanity. One question however, how does this effect faction ships like machiral? Ive seen them going 15k/m a sec, they will still go very fast.
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:45:00 - [73] Originally by: Necronomicon I do agree that the overall speed of ships is getting silly (15km/sec in a battleship is wrong) but I really dont want to see a serious witch hunt going on that destroys anyone's chances in intercepting snipers etc. I fly a Vagabond, on its own it is a very capable ship, but it is no battleship, The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat. Developer: Thukker Mix Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements. Now to nerf this ship inline with ships that were never meant to be 'lightening fast' would be a crying shame. But I can see this is the way we are going. A Vaga is for life, not just for downtime. Vaga is barely touched by the nerf, go test it on sisi. You might even go faster with the overdrive change.
Cebed Minmatar LFC	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:48:00 - [74] I was making those things and had pretty much all of my isk invested in them. Thank you for destroying my economy over night CCP May you all rot. -OMG! The Amarr ate my parents!!-
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:52:00 - [75] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. I guess you could refer you to being like a kid in a candy shop...You be the kid, and ill have the LOL-ipop Get real mate
Haks'he Lirky Durgar og Illmenni	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Nyxus The issue is that trackless weapons (domi/phoon) are imbalanced with Heavy Nos and omgstupid radial velocity. No one worries about nanoravens because they can't reach omgstupiducanttouchthis transversal. to Tux: why not introduce tracking to Nos'es?
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 15:59:00 - [77] Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. idiot much? Keep your insults to yourself, please. I've given a example of what's that done in real life ans hence I've used RL time to make ISK is as important as real life facts that cannot be ignored. Please comment on that if you'd like to a have a proper discussion, if not, keep it to yourself. Announcing something generic like "Nano BS doing tremendous speeds will get twicked", it's ok, I know, it's been for several months on the forums i've sold my Gist C-Type 100mn. How it was implemented and i'm talking about Vent -> Aux, that's another thing. You cannot rob people, end of the story.
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:03:00 - [78] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. I guess you could refer you to being like a kid in a candy shop...You be the kid, and ill have the LOL-ipop Get real mate Cool picking on me, but I'm not saying anything different than the guy above your post. Can you say the same thing to him?
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:03:00 - [79] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. I guess you could refer you to being like a kid in a candy shop...You be the kid, and ill have the LOL-ipop Get real mate Cool picking on me, but I'm not saying anything different than the guy above your post. Can you say the same thing to him?
Haks'he Lirky Durgar og Illmenni	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:05:00 - [80] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/03/2007 16:04:48 Originally by: Ewa Quillam Announcing something generic like "Nano BS doing tremendous speeds will get twicked", it's ok, I know, it's been for several months on the forums i've sold my Gist C-Type 100mn. How it was implemented and i'm talking about Vent -> Aux, that's another thing. You cannot rob people, end of the story. I would suspect that there are at least two clauses in the EULA that cover events like this, and besides all the isk and items in eve are the intelectual property of CCP not yours. edit: spelling

Haks'he Lirky Durgar og Illmenni	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:05:00 - [81] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/03/2007 16:04:48 Originally by: Ewa Quillam Announcing something generic like "Nano BS doing tremendous speeds will get twicked", it's ok, I know, it's been for several months on the forums i've sold my Gist C-Type 100mn. How it was implemented and i'm talking about Vent -> Aux, that's another thing. You cannot rob people, end of the story. I would suspect that there are at least two clauses in the EULA that cover events like this, and besides all the isk and items in eve are the intelectual property of CCP not yours. edit: spelling
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:10:00 - [82] \o/ Die in a fire nanobs! /just hopes the flames don't get too close to my Crow Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:10:00 - [83] \o/ Die in a fire nanobs! /just hopes the flames don't get too close to my Crow Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Caldari Stargate	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:15:00 - [84] Dear Tux, As well as the additional changes which we can see on sisi and you have outlined as coming in the next patch, can you please advise whether the other items which have vanished from sisi are also going to vanish from tq? Including, but not limited to Shaqil's Speed Enhancer and Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link. Thanks.
Caldari Stargate	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:15:00 - [85] Dear Tux, As well as the additional changes which we can see on sisi and you have outlined as coming in the next patch, can you please advise whether the other items which have vanished from sisi are also going to vanish from tq? Including, but not limited to Shaqil's Speed Enhancer and Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link. Thanks.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:19:00 - [86] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 16/03/2007 14:01:02 The problem is more that if you rig your ship for speed you are gonna maximize it. And since overdrives are far FAR more useful to maximize your speed it is pretty pointless to use aux thrusters for speed fittings due to the stacking penality. There's a reason it's called the "nanoship" not the "overdriveship", and it's all about agility. Turning is for suckers Toast :) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:19:00 - [87] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 16/03/2007 14:01:02 The problem is more that if you rig your ship for speed you are gonna maximize it. And since overdrives are far FAR more useful to maximize your speed it is pretty pointless to use aux thrusters for speed fittings due to the stacking penality. There's a reason it's called the "nanoship" not the "overdriveship", and it's all about agility. Turning is for suckers Toast :) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:25:00 - [88] Edited by: Goumindong on 16/03/2007 16:23:46 Originally by: Nyxus The issue is that trackless weapons (domi/phoon) are imbalanced with Heavy Nos and omgstupid radial velocity. No one worries about nanoravens because they can't reach omgstupiducanttouchthis transversal. Consider adding a sig penalty similar to Gleam on each speed mod and rig. I wouldn't care if that domi or phoon orbitied at 2000m/s if it's sig was around 1000. It wouldn't punish the smaller ships (fewer mods, smaller base sig) but would help balance out the larger ships that don't use tracking for damage computations. Nyxus With the changes you basically have a dynamic that looks like this. MWD = Defense against missiles AB = Defense against turrets Which existed before except that if you MWD'd fast enough you were invulnerable to turrets too. I agree that there is still a problem in that there is no manuverability option in order to defend against NOS, since it is neither sig radius, speed, or tracking based. [ed: Also, big props to the Claw stealth buff :) WTG Tux. ] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:25:00 - [89] Edited by: Goumindong on 16/03/2007 16:23:46 Originally by: Nyxus The issue is that trackless weapons (domi/phoon) are imbalanced with Heavy Nos and omgstupid radial velocity. No one worries about nanoravens because they can't reach omgstupiducanttouchthis transversal. Consider adding a sig penalty similar to Gleam on each speed mod and rig. I wouldn't care if that domi or phoon orbitied at 2000m/s if it's sig was around 1000. It wouldn't punish the smaller ships (fewer mods, smaller base sig) but would help balance out the larger ships that don't use tracking for damage computations. Nyxus With the changes you basically have a dynamic that looks like this. MWD = Defense against missiles AB = Defense against turrets Which existed before except that if you MWD'd fast enough you were invulnerable to turrets too. I agree that there is still a problem in that there is no manuverability option in order to defend against NOS, since it is neither sig radius, speed, or tracking based. [ed: Also, big props to the Claw stealth buff :) WTG Tux. ] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:28:00 - [90] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/03/2007 16:04:48 Originally by: Ewa Quillam Announcing something generic like "Nano BS doing tremendous speeds will get twicked", it's ok, I know, it's been for several months on the forums i've sold my Gist C-Type 100mn. How it was implemented and i'm talking about Vent -> Aux, that's another thing. You cannot rob people, end of the story. I would suspect that there are at least two clauses in the EULA that cover events like this, and besides all the isk and items in eve are the intelectual property of CCP not yours. edit: spelling Quote: 2. MONEY The currency in EVE is interstellar kredits (isk,) used for buying and selling items within the game world. 1. Lost isk may be reimbursed in some cases, after investigation and at the discretion of a GM, depending on the circumstance. 2. Ship insurance coverage is available to help pilots recoup some of the losses incurred when a ship is destroyed. This must be renewed periodically. 3. Upon the destruction of an insured ship, should the correct amount due the pilot not be paid by the NPC insurance provider, a GM may investigate and reimburse the player for the balance due. To learn about insurance please read our Knowedgebase article on ship insurance. 4. Players may become bounty hunters, seeking to collect financial rewards for destroying other players' characters who are "wanted" for pirate activity. NPC pirates may also be killed for bounty. Occasionally, these rewards may not be paid out correctly. A GM may investigate the case and reimburse the amount due. So, I could lose ISK and it could be reimbursed via a petition. Where is the problem? How is this any different than a lost a ship due to a in game failure? This is a game failure design as Tux said it in this thread, BS were never suppose to go this fast. They are trying to fix it by replacing a sold module by a cheaper already existing one. If the game was properly designed (if I take the word of the DEV) the module wouldn't be in the game in the first place. Why should I pay for other's mistakes?

Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:28:00 - [91] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 16/03/2007 16:04:48 Originally by: Ewa Quillam Announcing something generic like "Nano BS doing tremendous speeds will get twicked", it's ok, I know, it's been for several months on the forums i've sold my Gist C-Type 100mn. How it was implemented and i'm talking about Vent -> Aux, that's another thing. You cannot rob people, end of the story. I would suspect that there are at least two clauses in the EULA that cover events like this, and besides all the isk and items in eve are the intelectual property of CCP not yours. edit: spelling Quote: 2. MONEY The currency in EVE is interstellar kredits (isk,) used for buying and selling items within the game world. 1. Lost isk may be reimbursed in some cases, after investigation and at the discretion of a GM, depending on the circumstance. 2. Ship insurance coverage is available to help pilots recoup some of the losses incurred when a ship is destroyed. This must be renewed periodically. 3. Upon the destruction of an insured ship, should the correct amount due the pilot not be paid by the NPC insurance provider, a GM may investigate and reimburse the player for the balance due. To learn about insurance please read our Knowedgebase article on ship insurance. 4. Players may become bounty hunters, seeking to collect financial rewards for destroying other players' characters who are "wanted" for pirate activity. NPC pirates may also be killed for bounty. Occasionally, these rewards may not be paid out correctly. A GM may investigate the case and reimburse the amount due. So, I could lose ISK and it could be reimbursed via a petition. Where is the problem? How is this any different than a lost a ship due to a in game failure? This is a game failure design as Tux said it in this thread, BS were never suppose to go this fast. They are trying to fix it by replacing a sold module by a cheaper already existing one. If the game was properly designed (if I take the word of the DEV) the module wouldn't be in the game in the first place. Why should I pay for other's mistakes?
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:35:00 - [92] With this logic.. we could say that you used a game mechanic, that wasnt intended to work that way. So it was an exploit and you should be banned for it.. I love the changes and hope they will nerf the nano-bs-setups some more. Nanophoons dropping from 8km/s to 5km/s arent really much of a change.
Osyc Steel Frontier Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:36:00 - [93] Edited by: Osyc on 16/03/2007 16:43:53 Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger Originally by: Venkhar Krard And after the speed module "nerf" on sisi ? 4km/s to 2.1km/s, after some tinkering, 2.8km/s with battlecruiserish agility. Max orbit speed is 2.2km/s with a radius of 20km. Outstanding!
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:43:00 - [94] Originally by: Venkhar Krard With this logic.. we could say that you used a game mechanic, that wasnt intended to work that way. So it was an exploit and you should be banned for it.. So half of Eve would get banned? Don't think so. You're twisting the logic and although this is not the place, people pushed nano BS to the extremes as BoB pushed the game to the extreme by using a tactic that some qualify as an exploit, but still the GMs qualified it as using an in game and correct tactics if I'm not mistaking, the titan wasn't reimbursed. BS were in the game, the modules were in the game, the implants were in the game, there were set to free use and some used it in a way it wasn't thought of, apparently. Where is the problem, again?
Monarche Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:43:00 - [95] Thanks CCP now I have two Auxillary thrusters on my ship. How's about given me an mwd cap reduction rig and a new auxillary thruster.....
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:54:00 - [96] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. I guess you could refer you to being like a kid in a candy shop...You be the kid, and ill have the LOL-ipop Get real mate Cool picking on me, but I'm not saying anything different than the guy above your post. Can you say the same thing to him? I can, but im not going to - cos heres the kicker : Hes not barrating everyone, and insulting the world and his dog. Get real, learn that its a game, and stop whining like a child - Then ill listen to what you have to say.
Selim Smack Fleet	Posted - 2007.03.16 16:59:00 - [97] Edited by: Selim on 16/03/2007 17:01:11 Tux... what about smaller ships? Do you think its bad that they can go fast as well? I mean things like cruiser-sized stuff. Because I don't think so. I think that this nerf, by making the different effects split over 3 modules, actually hurts ships with less lowslots as opposed to boosting them. I also think that the nerf disproportionately helps missile and drone ships. Turrets still can't hit nanoships for crap but missiles and drones are now very effective against them. Turret ships also still cannot effectively use nano setups (well they can but they wont be using the mwd much while fighting, which is kind of not a problem at all). I think care should be taken to make sure that speed tanking is still viable and a decent alternative, otherwise we'll see only crazy supertanks that nobody can kill without using nos (which was one of the main problems with nanoships anyway). I also think care should be taken to make evading unfavorable situations possible, and that the minmatar speed advantage is actually a decent one as opposed to just going a few m/s faster. And as I said above, smaller ships shouldn't have to take a huge hit just because of nanophoons and nanodomis. I'm glad that nano BS are gone but I worry about the implications on the other ships. Also, what is the point of the typhoon/tempest being a bit faster now if there isnt really any benefit to speedtanking a BS? Hell I could go further with the phoon and say that its basically crap except in a nanofit except in certain specific circumstances due to its lack of powergrid. Its higher base speed is fairly meaningless in an armor tank anyway tbh.
rgreat Gallente OEG Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:07:00 - [98] Good news. Now we need to nerf Nos. They are way overpowered. Nanoships usually can win not only becouse of high speeds but also becouse they fit alot of nosses. At least add signature nerf to them. So one large nos will not suck frig dry on the moment of activation. Same stuff with cruiser class. Also, if we have tracking disruptors, why dont we have somi kind of missile disrupters? Missile ships already can use FOF missiles to be immune to Dampeners and ECM. Turrets can't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't worry. I struck you with the back of the sword. Oh, sorry. This sword's double-bladed.
Ewa Quillam Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:17:00 - [99] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ewa Quillam Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. I guess you could refer you to being like a kid in a candy shop...You be the kid, and ill have the LOL-ipop Get real mate Cool picking on me, but I'm not saying anything different than the guy above your post. Can you say the same thing to him? I can, but im not going to - cos heres the kicker : Hes not barrating everyone, and insulting the world and his dog. Get real, learn that its a game, and stop whining like a child - Then ill listen to what you have to say. Actually you're insulting me and I haven't yet insulted anyone. If you don't agree with me, fine, there are lots of others who do. A game has its rules, getting offended by changing rules whenever and however should be as important in a game as it is anywhere else. Actually it's more important over here, because I'm paying this.
TjediAI	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:17:00 - [100] Dear GMs stacking rigs ??? plz unfit all auxiliary rigs from my ships and where is my protheliant rig BPO ? i pay for research them

Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:25:00 - [101] I fly my Vaga as an oversized Interceptor (read the desription, that is exactly as it was intended to be used). My ability to respond to a target sighting and be in warp asap is my reason for fitting my ship, the speed is just a byproduct of that. Interceptors will 99/100 get bbqd when trying to tackle long range snipers (HAC or BS based) and the Vagabond is really the only thing that can stand a chance in that situation. I really do hope that you make sure that the relationship between Interceptor and Vagabond is maintained amid all this balancing, as it was always intended to be that mix of speed and power. A Vaga is for life, not just for downtime. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Farscape Hw Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:31:00 - [102] WTF i just logged on and i discovered as if i wern't hurting for isk enough already, ccp decided to replace my huge stock of expensive rigs with a pile of stinking horse ****. not to mention my uberfun machariel now goes 3k/s slower. i feel insulted and demand compensation for this loss. payment types accepted: Paypal, all major credit cards, isk transferal, weed, beer, cigarettes, and asian hookers.
Paper Doll	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:32:00 - [103] Edited by: Paper Doll on 16/03/2007 17:28:54 oops alt
Osyc Steel Frontier Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:33:00 - [104] Originally by: Farscape Hw payment types accepted: Paypal, all major credit cards, isk transferal, weed, beer, cigarettes, and asian hookers. best...closing statement...ever
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Originally by: Venkhar Krard With this logic.. we could say that you used a game mechanic, that wasnt intended to work that way. So it was an exploit and you should be banned for it.. So half of Eve would get banned? Don't think so. so half of eve would get isk back? Weirda not think so... Quote: BOB Blah Blah Blah... oh Jesus... Quote: Where is the problem, again? Thing change, not first time not last. Where is the problem? You flew a ship over a month that didn't die. Probably in lot of situation it should have. in the end, the part of you attidude (and a few other) that irritate everyone is that YOU are in a situation that EVERYONE is and YOU feel that YOU have the right to complain more about what MOST are taking with grain of salt. It remind Weirda of when was in touring band... we were all stuck on bus/plane/whatever ALL DAY AND NIGHT, but for some reason the drummer would NEVER shut up about it (like he was the only one or something). meh, maybe you just don't get it (as he didn't). can't blame you for that, he was good guy for most part. @Selim maybe it can be argue that this help to give missile ship a role in small gang... as Weirda have said before, the way those stat work against eachother the tactic you want to use against turret is generally opposite of what you want to do against missile (or should have been more pronounced as such). for nanoshipÖ it was the same for everything. maybe this will give better reason to balance gang out with some missileboat? __ Weirda Nosferatu - Time for Change
Asymptotic	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:35:00 - [106] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Anyway, petition incoming. 1. CCP let people know ahead of time (somewhat vaguely, I admit) that there was gonna be some sort of speed nerf. So making a ginormous investment in speed rigs was rather short-sighted; if the devs know about the exploit, the good times aren't gonna last for much longer. 2. Tuxford already said they were working on the ability to remove individual rigs. Given the circumstances, that's probably the best reimbursement you can hope for. You can't just go through all the logs and financially reimburse the last speed rig buyers - then the original owners of said rigs need reimbursement, and the owners before that, and so on until you have to compensate for the time the original rig creators put into making said rigs. Not pretty. So stop clogging up the damn petition database. It's whiners like you that keep CCP from responding to petitions within 5-10 minutes like they used to back in beta.
Dirtball	Posted - 2007.03.16 17:36:00 - [107] whew luckily my 11 vagas didnt have any fitted, but my sleips and claymores did, luckily I only had like 7 unfitted too could've lost a lot of isk on that deal
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:05:00 - [108] Originally by: Ewa Quillam Actually you're insulting me and I haven't yet insulted anyone. Originally by: Ewa Quillam complimenting people who disagree with him in this thread Not too bright are you? Not too bright, but hell, not the only one either... I can understand being irritated by the change, but personally I'd suck it up. Some individuals are always hit harder than others when changes like this are made, and it would be preposterous to reimburse them all. Some people also profit from the changes, should they have their isk taken away? Let's hope the ability to trash individual rigs comes in with the next patch like Tux mentioned might happen. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:23:00 - [109] Edited by: Nyxus on 16/03/2007 18:21:19 Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Nyxus The issue is that trackless weapons (domi/phoon) are imbalanced with Heavy Nos and omgstupid radial velocity. No one worries about nanoravens because they can't reach omgstupiducanttouchthis transversal. Consider adding a sig penalty similar to Gleam on each speed mod and rig. I wouldn't care if that domi or phoon orbitied at 2000m/s if it's sig was around 1000. It wouldn't punish the smaller ships (fewer mods, smaller base sig) but would help balance out the larger ships that don't use tracking for damage computations. Nyxus MWD = Defense against missiles AB = Defense against turrets Which existed before except that if you MWD'd fast enough you were invulnerable to turrets too. I agree that there is still a problem in that there is no manuverability option in order to defend against NOS, since it is neither sig radius, speed, or tracking based. I guess my issue is with NanoBS with non-tracking weapons still spinning about at 20km doing 2500m/s. It's not enough. But we had a similar problem before with MWD. The solution then? High speed (mwd) = Sig penalty If every speed, agility, or mass mod and rig had a 12% penalty to sig resolution you would see ships with 1 or 2 speed mods (Vaga, ceptors) largely unaffected, yet BS that stack 6+ speed mods suddenly have almost Dreadnaught sized signatures. This is needed to keep non-tracking weapons (missile ships, drone ships) balanced with tracking ships and to keep speed useful, but not useful with stacked to the max Speed works thusly: If you want the speed to escape, you get a bigger sig (easier to hit), just like a MWD. This is even more important for ships that don't have to worry about tracking and always move to maximize speed. Please consider adding a sig penalty as well as the stacking penalty/changes you are doing so far. Nyxus PS-Nos could be balanced easily by giving them a specific slot like a turret or missile. Drone ships and non-cap using ships would only get 1 slot for nos, just like turret ships only get one slot for missiles. The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Pattern Clarc Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:29:00 - [110] Really, was it speed or nos that made nano battleships overpowered... Was it ECM or Nos that made Nos domi overpowered. Would I be a lunatic in betting that Nos + some other combination in the future will become the next w1n setup whenever the CCP decides to introduce a new feature??? The changes CCP (like always) have been blanket changes that effect all classes of ships disproportionatly, just like the upcoming armour tanking nerf CCP are thinking about. And isn't anyone else **ed that hundreds of mill worths of rigs have been switched for inferior versions... This would have been fixed better if the propellent injection vents where switched with the T2 replacements for a fairer re-embursment of a **up that had nothing to do with your choices as a player.... Whatever Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:37:00 - [111] Personally I would have liked to see Eve go the other way... with more fast piloting and quick thinking instead of less. A lot of people are flying fast ships because its simply more fun to actually pilot the ship, compared to tanking and chucking missiles while sitting still or browsing the web... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Fork Boy	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:39:00 - [112] I can only imagine quite how hard it is to keep balance in a game like Eve, while constantly trying to provide new content to keep people interested in playing. Adding new higher end content, while not making the old stuff totally redundant. It's very difficult indeed, and I take my hat off to the team for having the guts to admit to an imbalance and do something about it. However (you knew there was going to be a "however", right?) I do think if an form of content is majorly changed in the game, there should be a way of getting it traded back in so that you haven't been unduly stitched up. In the form of rigs in this case then perhaps all rigs of that type should have been stripped from ships, and people reimbursed for whatever they paid for them (database trawl for sales of that item?) Just something to sweeten the pill a little, that's all I was thinking. ================================= A fork is a cold, shiny tool To pierce, tear and ingest. Whoever has the fork in hand Controls the meal of their choice.
Farscape Hw Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:42:00 - [113] Originally by: Pattern Clarc And isn't anyone else **ed that hundreds of mill worths of rigs have been switched for inferior versions... yea im very **ed, ccp didnt handle this correctly. alot of ppl lost alot of isk here.
Gordon Red SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:51:00 - [114] Okay, that rig-switching is a bit user unfriendly (30m for each rig for nothing), but it "okay". What I am happy about, is the next patch for the reason that a damn BS hopefully can't be faster as my interceptor, BUT on the other hand, as you planing the nanofibers/intertials/overdrives to be, my dictor will be again a totally death-trap! And the interceptors are needing aeons to go into warp => I thought I should be able to intercept?!? A BS is going faster into warp as my interceptor (try it on Test!).
C4w3 Minmatar Friendship 7 Corporation YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:00:00 - [115] Well now i have two freeking god damned aux rigs CCP what are you doing and why arent you informing the playerbase ........ JESUS. Sort it out ASAP or i wanna have stacking bonuses for my 2 aux rigs please. Tux you got a co0l name ... that represents good things dont fo0bar it up brotherman. Regards C4w3. "If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I¦ll just kill em all!"
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:10:00 - [116] Originally by: Caldari Stargate Dear Tux, As well as the additional changes which we can see on sisi and you have outlined as coming in the next patch, can you please advise whether the other items which have vanished from sisi are also going to vanish from tq? Including, but not limited to Shaqil's Speed Enhancer and Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link. Thanks. Quoted for additional visibility. Would very much like answers for that, too. And whatever you do, don't you DARE to switch Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link with Zor's Custom Navigation Link. If you want to remove it just do exactly this. Switching it with something absolutely useless which everyone will instantly trash will annoy people more.
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:15:00 - [117] Ok, I dont mind the nerf, but I really mind the way it was done. I think fair compensation would have been to remove all Propellant Injection vent rigs and BPOs from the game and give back the salvage materials needed to build them so that people could atleast use it to build something useful instead. My Sabres and Crows were all horribly slow after todays patch, with the new stats on overdrives that might be helped, but they dont seem to be available as of this moment. (unless I missed something) Now that we have had the nerfbat up our collective asses, when are you going to release the rest of the patch with the overdrive loving to make us forget the abuse? Regards /Doxs After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead...
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:25:00 - [118] This is actually the best possible outcome of the situation. The stupid fast nano-BS are nerfed a little (a nano-BS can still be used, just like it was pre-kali) and the people who are/were using them get screwed right in the ass, just like they should. Outstanding job. Now please nerf nos. Life Begins at -10! FIX RECON PROBES
Menod Penter Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:55:00 - [119] Wow, didn't we just have a similar incident where CCP made a valuable item less valuable with no warning or compensation to the player base with the "Great Snowball Nerf of '07".... talk about your Deja Vu! As I've said before look for more of these types of nerfs in the future. Hmmm, what's next... T2 BPO's? :) Have a Nice Day :) Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens
Fenderson OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:55:00 - [120] the problem is not fixed. the problem was that you had BS going insane speeds AND using lots of heavy nos, rendering ceptors (the ships that are supposed to be good at catching things) useless in countering them. If nos remains the same and BS can still go fast, nothing has been fixed. you should always be able to kill a nanobs with a well fitted ceptor plus sufficient damage dealing ships. sigs are for the weak

Idara Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:13:00 - [121] You bunch of monkeys. At least you should've left the already installed Propellant MWD speed rigs keep their bonus, make it a collectors item (ISK SINK!) for people to buy as a show-off kinda thing. Instead you just nerf a module because you didn't plan into the future. Bravo. ---
Lady Vorax Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:14:00 - [122] and now people lost billions....
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:20:00 - [123] 20mil isk if someone makes a sig making fun of all the people who lost their good rigs. Email me in game (Seriously) ----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues 1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:23:00 - [124] So um yeah, any chance of introducing a mod that increases base speed without gutting cargo hold? Since nanos lost their speed boost. It can gut something else not useful for hauling, but useful for fighting, so that it completments rather than replaces overdrives. Pretty please. My salvaging Geddon w/3x Salvage Tackles turned into a half-dead turtle.
maGz Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:24:00 - [125] While I understand the need for a nerf, the way of implementing the nerf was horrible... I read something about Shaqil's Speed Enhancer + Zor's Hyper-Link being removed or something? As previously stated I understand the need for a nerf, but hopefully you wont go so far as to screwing over the pilots who have spent billions on getting as much speed as possible... ____________ Coming soon...
djNME DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:29:00 - [126] Hey, Thanks for basicly gheying things up properly. This patch was needed though the thyphoon was actually being used in game for once.Even the way it was done fast was prob needed to no panick market. Though now I have 500+ mil in crap no good rigs and that is total and utter bullshyt and once again crap planning by ccp. awesome job. djNME
Albert Spider Gallente Heroes Of Blood	Posted - 2007.03.16 20:53:00 - [127] Originally by: Fenderson the problem is not fixed. the problem was that you had BS going insane speeds AND using lots of heavy nos, rendering ceptors (the ships that are supposed to be good at catching things) useless in countering them. If nos remains the same and BS can still go fast, nothing has been fixed. you should always be able to kill a nanobs with a well fitted ceptor plus sufficient damage dealing ships. Ceptors still have uber high scan resolution. nano bs's still have crap for scan resolution. conclusion - inties are still better at catching things. Good job ccp, make those battleships better targets for us blasterboats please!! Now i can finally catch that curse that has been orbiting me at 6km/s for the last 2 weeks.
nayneee	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:07:00 - [128] LMAO HAHAHAHAHA u lost lots of isk u abused the system u got nerfed HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA to all thoose who lost billions or millions I laugh in your face you knew the nerf bat was hovering, u were told many times that speed was being looked at what a bunch of WA****** you all were Please please nerf it some more - SIG RADIUS BONUS FTW - NanoBS n VAGA pilots HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:07:00 - [129] This thread delivers! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE My nano battleship can't go 2349825729084324375987m/s anymore! BOOHOO I'm not totally invincible anymore! waaaaaaaaaaah To the people complaining about not getting a warning: I read, yesterday, that the modules were changed on sisi, and the nanonerf has been talked about for ages now. And to those who lost isk: It's happened before. Someone post the link to that funny tractor beam pic. ------------------------------- The opinions reflected in this post DO reflect the opinions of my corp...of one guy and a bunch of alts.
Venatus Phoenix Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:08:00 - [130] I'm fine with the change itself. Good job, something should be done with what's been going on since the Instab buff and I'm liking the direction you've been going with these changes. OMG they make sense!! But what I really care about is this statement: Originally by: Tuxford So I was gonna post to day but because of a little miscommunication between me and the operation guy that actually did it he did it today and not in the downtime before the next patch. Does CCP even have processes for getting things done or is it all done off the hip? This just blows my mind that something would be patched before it was supposed to and it's not like this is the first time this has ever happened. It really seems like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing in the company. The more I learn about how Eve is designed, implemented, and ran the more I wonder how it's still even continuing to exist and I like the game.

Fenderson OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:27:00 - [131] Originally by: Albert Spider Originally by: Fenderson the problem is not fixed. the problem was that you had BS going insane speeds AND using lots of heavy nos, rendering ceptors (the ships that are supposed to be good at catching things) useless in countering them. If nos remains the same and BS can still go fast, nothing has been fixed. you should always be able to kill a nanobs with a well fitted ceptor plus sufficient damage dealing ships. Ceptors still have uber high scan resolution. nano bs's still have crap for scan resolution. conclusion - inties are still better at catching things. Good job ccp, make those battleships better targets for us blasterboats please!! Now i can finally catch that curse that has been orbiting me at 6km/s for the last 2 weeks. yes ceptors are better at catching things, but that is not my point. my point is that a ceptor still cant catch a nanoBS. and i dont see how you think your gona be able to catch that curse now.... its still gona go waaaay faster than your blaster boat. sigs are for the weak
jaskirat Ecosse Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:55:00 - [132] pff u nerfed my crow tux Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
UkownOne	Posted - 2007.03.16 22:01:00 - [133] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Napolie ♥ Thats my opinion about this post A really constructive solution to a tricky problem too It was a dirty hack to be honest but we couldn't find anyway around it. I hope we never have to do it again. ill second that on the dirty hack part my vaga
Snikkt Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.16 22:40:00 - [134] I was giggling like a schoolgirl at most of the reading of this thread. "ZOMG CCP, WTF, WHY YOU SCREW ME OUT OF BILLIONS" Good god, people, if you can afford to fit/fly a nanoship with rigs, you sure as hell can afford to replace them. It's honestly not that bad. ------------------- My opinions (ie, all of my posting here) are not my corporations. Nor should it be taken as such.
Mymh Heretache	Posted - 2007.03.16 22:46:00 - [135] Sooo.. we'll still see ships flying in and out of our warp scramblers with no sweat? Would be nice if the major issues like being able to tackle ships were solved instead of just slowing down speed slightly. That's, imho, the chicken-solution to the problem, instead of actually solving it. Removing it. This game already have nerfed the 1 on 1 pvp way too many times. Warp to 0, bubbles, warp core stabs earlier and nano now. So how about giving most ships a chance to tackle most ships without being nano'ed or ew'd to nuts? Would be nice if people actually could get some other kind of pvp than the regular huge gangs or recon/inty jumps. As much as I love my recon I'd also love to bring out my bc/cruisers for some one on one vs similiar ships, but as it is it's either 10+ intys or 10+ cmd ships/carriers, or the big bubble gates. Boooring. Boooooooring. And to get back on track, sorry for the derail: nano-ships making it even worse as it doesn't matter what you do. I went up with my recon vs a domi, dampener, scramble, web and even tho I managed to scramble him he just flew off. Twice. How stupid ain't that? I need to nano my curse to fight nano? I need to nano my frigs? my assault ships? My destroyers, and bc's, and bs', and.. see the point? Just remove that crap already, it's stupid, silly, pointless and have ruined the pvp in this game for too long. And the 'solution' is far from satisfying. The rest of the patch notes looks good, but the main issue still needs to be addressed.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 22:55:00 - [136] it came to the point of a gang of 4 nano-command ships was simply unkillable yeah we killed a group of 3, with what... 6 nano-phoons??? getting a nanoed vigil raced and killed by a BS was a bit... depressing eh :P i hope the final result works as intended tho ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
The Economist	Posted - 2007.03.16 22:57:00 - [137] Had a play around on sisi, and I have to say, seems like some rather nice, balanced changes
Jason Marshall Emerald Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 23:10:00 - [138] This is a good move, you had a feature in the game that would dominate unless it faced a fleet built to capture just that one ship type. And the best soloution to there problem was to fly the minmatar recon which is a long time training. Now i think that to a certain extent theese types of setups are good, it goes againts the grain, but it became rampant and overrused. On the reimburstment its not really pheasable for them to do that. I agree they should let you remove the rigs, but a monetary reimburstment is outta the quesiton. And Ewa is overreacting like always. Let him vent. Everyone needs to vent, you got semi screwed over and some people cant help but **** and moan about it. Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
umah	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:16:00 - [139] Yeh I don't need two Aux Thruster BPO's, how's about a swap for the drone damage instead at least. Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Ah well, at least it is one BPO less to research for my Perfect ME Rig BPO sets. Tux, now with this BPO removed are you going to seed the two missing drone rig BPOs instead? We chickened out on the drone damage rig, I know cowardly and all but we've made the rig and try to get in balancing after next patch.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:20:00 - [140] Edited by: Wrayeth on 17/03/2007 01:17:10 I don't think the change goes far enough. Basically, what it boils down to is that you still can't do solo PvP in a turret BS anymore, because even one passing nanoship will ruin your day. I have a faction-fitted machariel that's been uselessly sitting in dock since Revelations since I can't USE the sucker without dying to the first nano-BS that comes along. Needless to say, I'm quite irked about that, and I'm even more ticked that the much-touted nano-nerf won't change that situation. I don't enjoy the "fly fast and get hit by nothing" playstyle, but it seems that the developers support that as the only way to PvP solo. Tux, by not doing a full-on nerf, you're invalidating the playstyle I enjoy (the straight-up fight). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race

Machanara Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:56:00 - [141] I definatly agree there needs to be a worthwhile sig increase to these mods as well.
Farscape Hw Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.17 05:52:00 - [142] you really can tell the empire dwelling carebears apart from the pvpers in this thread... easily. ya know a better way to handle this mr almighty ccp ppl, would have been to just remove all propellant rigs from game and replace them with the componants i spent so much isk building them with. now i have rigs made of the cheap shyte. i could have used the componants to build cargo expander rigs since they use 2 of the same types. even though going fast is so much funner than sitting still lobbing vollies back and forth, im still not so **ed that my battleship goes 9k/s instead of 12... im just mad we all lost so much isk. PS: why is ** censored?... its just another way to say pee and not even a bad word
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.17 07:41:00 - [143] hahahhahahha i'll just say that one more time for clarity LOL u got what u deserved nano***s lets fight ______________________________________
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.17 09:17:00 - [144] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 17/03/2007 01:17:10 I don't think the change goes far enough. Basically, what it boils down to is that you still can't do solo PvP in a turret BS anymore, because even one passing nanoship will ruin your day. I have a faction-fitted machariel that's been uselessly sitting in dock since Revelations since I can't USE the sucker without dying to the first nano-BS that comes along. Needless to say, I'm quite irked about that, and I'm even more ticked that the much-touted nano-nerf won't change that situation. I don't enjoy the "fly fast and get hit by nothing" playstyle, but it seems that the developers support that as the only way to PvP solo. Tux, by not doing a full-on nerf, you're invalidating the playstyle I enjoy (the straight-up fight). Er.. you have read the patch notes?
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.17 09:26:00 - [145] Originally by: Aramendel Er.. you have read the patch notes? Yep, however... Originally by: Tuxford I don't think nano battleship is anything that was ever planned by anyone at CCP it just sort of happend,... twice (or more?). I'd definitly say that they are still viable, of course you would have problems with missile ships but in reality, turret ships aren't going to hit you and they won't get in web range if you're faster. ...from the first page of this thread. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Big Al Ki Shoda	Posted - 2007.03.17 09:38:00 - [146] I'm sure the .00001% of people who will use aux thrusters will thank you. However, now you will see a deluge of complaining for a method to remove a single rig without destroying them all...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.17 10:15:00 - [147] Originally by: Wrayeth ...from the first page of this thread. Maybe you should actually try out the changes for yourself instead of forming your opinion based on a single line of text. Otherwise you are really doing what your sig says.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.17 10:26:00 - [148] I did read the changes. And, unless they've been updated in the last few hours, what Tuxford said stands. Turret ships will get wtfpwned by nanoships. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.17 10:47:00 - [149] Originally by: Wrayeth I did read the changes. And, unless they've been updated in the last few hours, what Tuxford said stands. Turret ships will get wtfpwned by nanoships. I said trying them out. Not reading. You are taking one line of text completely out of context. The module changes are rather significant. Speed and agility got about halved for nanoBSs. Longrange turrets should not be able to hit them, but shortrange turrets sure the hell will. If turrets in general would have no problem at all to hit them nanosetups would not be balanced but useless.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.17 10:47:00 - [150] well the phoon has been put back in it's rightfull place. Since I sold about 1/2 billion in PIV rigs just a few days ago it's no longer my problem.

Blowupd0ll	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:06:00 - [151] This is not enough ,more nerfs please.
Achalia	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:07:00 - [152] Those who speculated on the market lost. Risk vs Reward. Simple as, I'm afraid . Market PvP is PvP too. Those who didn't speculate on this, won. I like this nerf, it majorly nerfs nano-bs but leaves vagabonds and inties relatively untouched. Well done!
Achalia	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:10:00 - [153] Originally by: Mymh Heretache Sooo.. we'll still see ships flying in and out of our warp scramblers with no sweat? Would be nice if the major issues like being able to tackle ships were solved instead of just slowing down speed slightly. That's, imho, the chicken-solution to the problem, instead of actually solving it. Removing it. This game already have nerfed the 1 on 1 pvp way too many times. Warp to 0, bubbles, warp core stabs earlier and nano now. So how about giving most ships a chance to tackle most ships without being nano'ed or ew'd to nuts? Would be nice if people actually could get some other kind of pvp than the regular huge gangs or recon/inty jumps. As much as I love my recon I'd also love to bring out my bc/cruisers for some one on one vs similiar ships, but as it is it's either 10+ intys or 10+ cmd ships/carriers, or the big bubble gates. Boooring. Boooooooring. And to get back on track, sorry for the derail: nano-ships making it even worse as it doesn't matter what you do. I went up with my recon vs a domi, dampener, scramble, web and even tho I managed to scramble him he just flew off. Twice. How stupid ain't that? I need to nano my curse to fight nano? I need to nano my frigs? my assault ships? My destroyers, and bc's, and bs', and.. see the point? Just remove that crap already, it's stupid, silly, pointless and have ruined the pvp in this game for too long. And the 'solution' is far from satisfying. The rest of the patch notes looks good, but the main issue still needs to be addressed. It's called speed tanking. It's the only things minmatar do well: speed tanking and controlling the range. I appreciate you want your gallente "I win" button, but other people are going to object to that, sorry
Mymh Heretache	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:24:00 - [154] Edited by: Mymh Heretache on 17/03/2007 11:21:06 Originally by: Achalia It's called speed tanking. It's the only things minmatar do well: speed tanking and controlling the range. I appreciate you want your gallente "I win" button, but other people are going to object to that, sorry Edit: Where's that sig that goes: "I'm paper. Nerf scissors. Stone is fine." Funny thing is the reason I don't like this is because I enjoy the 'rock, scissor, paper'-pvp mentality in EvE. All races got their strengths and weaknesses and there's usually a means to counter it. In the 'speedtanking' case, there's only one way to counter it - with speed. So basicly the whole idea of pvp in EvE is totally twisted now as everything only depends on speed, and nothing else but speed, everything else is pointless. And f.y.i., don't look too much at the posters icon, this happens to be the empire trade-alt of a pure Amarr pilot. Not only am I vulnerable cap-wise, I also happens to be turret-based damage wise and with speed out.. there's no point for me to PvP in anything but intys and recons. Revelations killed pvp as it was in EvE and replaced it with something else, as well as nerfed a ****load of ships (and almost a race) to uselessness. I still say remove all the speed enhancers. All of it. It wasn't needed, nor called for, and it took away the old rock-scissors-paper style of pvp this game used to have.
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:28:00 - [155] Nanobses nerfed : checked Now nerf passive recharge rigs and shield power relays t2's. Passive shield tanks after kali are as overpowered as Istabs.
Achalia	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:41:00 - [156] Edited by: Achalia on 17/03/2007 11:39:31 Edited by: Achalia on 17/03/2007 11:38:01 Quote: Funny thing is the reason I don't like this is because I enjoy the 'rock, scissor, paper'-pvp mentality in EvE. All races got their strengths and weaknesses and there's usually a means to counter it. In the 'speedtanking' case, there's only one way to counter it - with speed. So basicly the whole idea of pvp in EvE is totally twisted now as everything only depends on speed, and nothing else but speed, everything else is pointless. And f.y.i., don't look too much at the posters icon, this happens to be the empire trade-alt of a pure Amarr pilot. Not only am I vulnerable cap-wise, I also happens to be turret-based damage wise and with speed out.. there's no point for me to PvP in anything but intys and recons. Revelations killed pvp as it was in EvE and replaced it with something else, as well as nerfed a ****load of ships (and almost a race) to uselessness. I still say remove all the speed enhancers. All of it. It wasn't needed, nor called for, and it took away the old rock-scissors-paper style of pvp this game used to have. As amarr, you already have a very good counter for a nano-bs - the curse. You nos as much as a nano-bs, at longer range, and your drones do more damage. Your nos will mean it cannot sustain MWD indefinitely. You can fit an improved cloak and decloak on top of it, or use a Pilgrim. You can damp it so it cannot hit you, or use other ewar. All you need is to get it webbed, which will be much much easier after the patch - either by manual flying with a mwd (not a speed setup, just mwd and tank), or with a small gang (just curse + webbing ship). Considering your curse will be significantly cheaper than the nano-bs, I think this is balanced. You probably disagree (edited for borked quote)
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:05:00 - [157] I am really looking forward to people who don't read the patch notes logging in after the extended DT on Tues. After the warp stab nerf I saw a thread from someone moaning that they could not rat in 0.0 anymore with a fully stabbed up Raven.
Nadija FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:30:00 - [158] Well i did petion about this & asked for sum money back, but now i see that was a waste of time ¼_¼ ah well at least 1 good thing that has come outta this is that bs can't go flyin round like ceptors anymore MY SIG BANNER GALLERY
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:34:00 - [159] Edited by: Aramendel on 17/03/2007 12:30:24 Originally by: Achalia ...the curse. You nos as much as a nano-bs, at longer range, and your drones do more damage... WTB: 5 medium drones + bonus which do as much dps as 5 unbonussed heavy drones (nevermind that + 4 torp/cruise or 5 heavies WITH a bonus)
Cpt Fina Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:34:00 - [160] Why, oh why do local hull nanos only give 10% massreduction compared to the 15% mass reduction i-stabs currently give? Sure NanoBS will take a hit but so will also interceptors. I thought you were going to come up with a solution to the nanotrend without hurting Interceptors.

Axhind Caldari Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:35:00 - [161] How about all the people that got killed by nanoBSs get reimbursed as well? They lost tons of ISK too or is it just when YOU lose the ISK that it should be reimbursed. (this is not directed at anyone special) Anyway great nerf (and much needed) :)
Cebed Minmatar LFC	Posted - 2007.03.17 13:27:00 - [162] To those of you who think that th rigmakers deserved this due to us speculating in game exploits etc. When i start making something i simply pick a line of products, study the market to see the n of products sold and calculate production costs vs selling price/profit. I started making rigs purely based on what the in game marketing system told me, not on some stupid nano-hype. I even guarded myself so I didn't make more rigs than i could sell in 2 days. I think that is more than what should be expected of the producers. One would think that CCP wouldn't decide to change anything within a 1 day notice (this time we didn't get any notice at all) This nerf was necessary, I'll grant you that. To be true i dont care a #ñ%& if the nanoships now go at 20m/s or whatever. It doesn't concern me, I dont even fly them. From a producers perspective however, turning a module into a lesser one because of the lack of foresight from CCP is pathetic. To add to the inconcistency CCP did this over a DT, not associated with any patch, it was simply impossible to prepare. So far module nerfs and changes have come on patchdays. It only makes sence to believe that any changes to the riggings would come in the next patch. It's totally impossible to be a producer when CCP changes things over a DT like this. And it totally takes the fun out of the game for someone like me who decided to go into industry seriously a week ago, investing about everything i had, having great fun, exploring a new aspect of the game, only to have my new gaming experience ruined by a ugly hack. Very unprofessional CCP. -OMG! The Amarr ate my parents!!-
Syril Mert Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2007.03.17 13:42:00 - [163] LOL. It has been known that nano ships would get nerfed for a long time now and still people complain :) Maybe indutrialists should make better plans themselves before complaining about CCPs plans.
Cebed Minmatar LFC	Posted - 2007.03.17 13:57:00 - [164] No it could not go on forever, but noone expected that the change would come unnanounced within 1h time. -OMG! The Amarr ate my parents!!-
Selim Smack Fleet	Posted - 2007.03.17 16:18:00 - [165] Edited by: Selim on 17/03/2007 16:16:31 Edited by: Selim on 17/03/2007 16:15:05 Originally by: Venkhar Krard Nanobses nerfed : checked Now nerf passive recharge rigs and shield power relays t2's. Passive shield tanks after kali are as overpowered as Istabs. I'd have to agree... sort of. Passive shield tanks are pretty insane on a few caldari battlecruisers, better than most active BS tanks. Its pretty much impossible to kill them in a reasonable amount of time if you're alone or in a small group. That said, they should be viable, to provide a nice alternative, but its out of hand atm. Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 17/03/2007 12:30:24 Originally by: Achalia ...the curse. You nos as much as a nano-bs, at longer range, and your drones do more damage... WTB: 5 medium drones + bonus which do as much dps as 5 unbonussed heavy drones (nevermind that + 4 torp/cruise or 5 heavies WITH a bonus) Yeah the curse isnt a nano BS by far, its also actually slower than one atm, even when fitted for speed. Not sure post patch though.
Pattern Clarc Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2007.03.17 17:03:00 - [166] Originally by: Jim McGregor Personally I would have liked to see Eve go the other way... with more fast piloting and quick thinking instead of less. A lot of people are flying fast ships because its simply more fun to actually pilot the ship, compared to tanking and chucking missiles while sitting still or browsing the web... CCP, are you listening? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.17 17:18:00 - [167] Originally by: Selim Yeah the curse isnt a nano BS by far, its also actually slower than one atm, even when fitted for speed. Not sure post patch though. For the t2 lvl, if you fit both ships so that they have the same agility (unmodded rupture), a curse can get max speed of 3.8 km/s and a phoon one of 3.96 km/s. A nanophoon is still faster, but not by as much as on TQ before the changes.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient	Posted - 2007.03.17 18:13:00 - [168] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Jim McGregor Personally I would have liked to see Eve go the other way... with more fast piloting and quick thinking instead of less. A lot of people are flying fast ships because its simply more fun to actually pilot the ship, compared to tanking and chucking missiles while sitting still or browsing the web... CCP, are you listening? The Devs had said more than a few times that Eve is not, and will not be a twitch style game.
Nymos Fimbulvintr	Posted - 2007.03.17 18:14:00 - [169] outstanding job, ccp!! lots of major and minor annoyances fixed. i hope what you're doing balances speed back to pre-kali and not completely to hell. also, the contract scams are fixed. good so. it's always amazing how people defend obviously borked game mechanics like "wtf u noob rtf-forums and get a clue". i mean, who would want to make an auction to another corp!? it was a loophole that, together with simple minded victims, was exploited. i wonder how many billions scammer made from fooling people. remember, there are children that play too that you can trick like this because they don't know better, for example. wtg ccp. i see logoffski fixed too? nice :) now fix dictors and nos hehe. and i agree, everyone KNEW the speed nerf was coming. there were pages and pages of forum whining, people talked about it and even blogs were posted on that subject! it was announced to come by end of March. what do people think when they invest hundreds of millions in speed rigs and speed stuff? are they people that tried to get on the bandwaggon too late? what a pity, my condolences. you sure have a hard job, tux et al., hope it's implemented well too. --
Mymh Heretache	Posted - 2007.03.17 18:46:00 - [170] Originally by: Achalia As amarr, you already have a very good counter for a nano-bs - the curse. You nos as much as a nano-bs, at longer range, and your drones do more damage. Your nos will mean it cannot sustain MWD indefinitely. You can fit an improved cloak and decloak on top of it, or use a Pilgrim. You can damp it so it cannot hit you, or use other ewar. All you need is to get it webbed, which will be much much easier after the patch - either by manual flying with a mwd (not a speed setup, just mwd and tank), or with a small gang (just curse + webbing ship). Considering your curse will be significantly cheaper than the nano-bs, I think this is balanced. You probably disagree (edited for borked quote) Tried it. Finding it extremely difficult to catch them. Most nanoships don't stand still but keep moving, and with those ships (I'm not nanoed) I'm just hoping they'll fly by next to me so I get a 0.3sec window to try target them from cloak. Oh, or I could decloak and try hope for them to run by so I can web/nos/scramble them, but.. well, the problem is nos-nano-domi's seems to avoid curses. Wonder why? And have you ever seen a nano-ship stand still camping somewhere? They're usually on the move. Which means I have to move at same speed while trying to stealth up to them. IF I would get up to one that is a sitting duck, in my recons, I'd just decloak and start target and boom they're out of my web range before I'm even done targetting. Wtf? So I'm left to the point I posted earlier; I'm forced to fly nano to counter nano. The point with introducing rigs to me seems more to be a money-sink for players rather than actually adding anything useful (pvp-wise), as we all have to go for speed, we all have a basic cost for a basic rig that is basic/standard equipment for every pilot in this game. So, end of the day, these rigs fill no purpose at all, except to annoy everyone that doesn't use them to the point that they will use it - on all ships they have. And we have a huge moneysink for no purpose. Still, that also doesn't address that they make bubbles obsolete. Having a gatecamp with a bubble and 30 people and see a ship get through even tho you have 10 people targetting him/her, all tackling, and the ship just fly out of the bubble and warp off - or go back to the gate - is ridicilous. Why even bother trying to bubble? Or scramble? I'm yet to catch my first nano'd ship in my Curse and Pilgrim, or hell, any of my ships for that matter. And I'd love to use my rigs for ccc or repair etc rather than going nano just to counter nano. This speedcrap is a disease that needs to be cured.

Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:45:00 - [171] All speed mods need a 12% sig penalty in addition to the stacking penalty coming on tuesday 2 Istab and a aux thrust rig on your Crow? Np, now it's sig is 28.5 instead of 21. Got the same thing on your Vaga? Np, your sig goes from 115 to 156. Want to put 2 nanos, 2 ODs, 2 Istabs, and 3 thrusters on your Domi? Sure, but it just went from a sig of 420 to a sig of 1164. Just like a MWD, higher speeds should equal higher signature for balance reasons. The currently implemented nerf still leaves nanos pretty much immune to turrets. Thats not enough. Ships meant for speed are balanced for it, like a ceptor or Vaga. Ships that can go fast and do tons of damage just becuase they have lots of lows and nontracking weapons should be dissuaded from doing so with a serious drawback. Just reducing thier speed from 10km/s to 3800 m/s isnt enough. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Sheriff Badden Amarr Legion Federation Amen Anera	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:57:00 - [172] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 16/03/2007 13:26:33 The tractor beam incident was hilarious though! That rules!
Selim Smack Fleet	Posted - 2007.03.18 00:42:00 - [173] Originally by: Nyxus All speed mods need a 12% sig penalty in addition to the stacking penalty coming on tuesday 2 Istab and a aux thrust rig on your Crow? Np, now it's sig is 28.5 instead of 21. Got the same thing on your Vaga? Np, your sig goes from 115 to 156. Want to put 2 nanos, 2 ODs, 2 Istabs, and 3 thrusters on your Domi? Sure, but it just went from a sig of 420 to a sig of 1164. Just like a MWD, higher speeds should equal higher signature for balance reasons. The currently implemented nerf still leaves nanos pretty much immune to turrets. Thats not enough. Ships meant for speed are balanced for it, like a ceptor or Vaga. Ships that can go fast and do tons of damage just becuase they have lots of lows and nontracking weapons should be dissuaded from doing so with a serious drawback. Just reducing thier speed from 10km/s to 3800 m/s isnt enough. Nyxus I don't see how that doesn't hurt ships that are meant to go fast. In the case of the vaga, you arent really using your mwd while shooting mostly, so the sig penalty would make you a huge sitting duck for missiles and turrets, as if missiles didnt hurt it enough already. Its not a problem when mwding because it isnt going to be hitting anything either. It is also almost always fit with one or two extenders so your figures are wrong. I think the current change is enough, and has hurt cruiser-sized ships more than necessary already. Sure turrets suck against nanoships but thats kind of the point... to reduce the damage you are taking by going fast. I don't see why ships that use nontracking weapons shouldn't be able to utilize that fact to their advantage. What would be the point of speedtanking if you are just as easily hit as if you arent going fast? Do you really want everyone to just armor/shield tank or full out gank? Nano BS are severely hurt by the change, which is fine, lets just leave it there.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2007.03.18 02:51:00 - [174] Do inertia stabilizers get stacking nerfed now, too? Also, I'm kind of curious why penalties like the cargo penalty on overdrives will still be there if the new modules are much less effective than they were before.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.18 11:09:00 - [175] Yes. And with ODs it depends on the ship. On indys, BCs and BSs they are less effective. However, on anything smaller they are more effective than before.
Barim Solfara	Posted - 2007.03.18 13:38:00 - [176] I WANT MY SNOWBALLS BACK
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.18 18:39:00 - [177] Originally by: Selim Originally by: Nyxus All speed mods need a 12% sig penalty in addition to the stacking penalty coming on tuesday I don't see how that doesn't hurt ships that are meant to go fast. Well ships that are meant to go fast do so out of the box. These aren't the ships that stack tons of speedmods on. Would they take a small penalty? Yes. But they also get the most benefit from a speed mod because the base attributes are better. They went really fast before the changes, afterwards they can go even faster but at the penalty of higher signature. Can you really tell me that Ceptors and Vagas didn't go fast enough before Revelations to do thier job? Originally by: Selim Sure turrets suck against nanoships but thats kind of the point... to reduce the damage you are taking by going fast. Reduction, I don't mind. More likelyhood of getting away if things go bad balanced with less tanking is fine. My problem is that you will still have Domi's and Phoons orbiting at 22km going 3800m/s and being effectively immune from turrets, while they still do full damage and have massive cap warfare. A sig penalty would change that. They would still have speed induced damage reduction, and the ability to flee at high speed but they would no longer be invulnerable to turrets of the same class size. Just like the MWD, high speed is balanced with higher sig rad. Fast ships are balanced to go fast. Fast ships shouldn't be the ones with the most lows and non-tracking weapons who become virtually unhittable through speed while doing full damage. A sig penalty would keep this from happening. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Uncle Smokey	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:03:00 - [178] Originally by: Cpt Fina Why, oh why do local hull nanos only give 10% massreduction compared to the 15% mass reduction i-stabs currently give? Sure NanoBS will take a hit but so will also interceptors. I thought you were going to come up with a solution to the nanotrend without hurting Interceptors. Word! Dunno that much about this, but i dont like the idea of hurting ceptors at all. Sure, nerf the bs all u like, but surviving in a frigate is still more than a challenge already.
Uncle Smokey	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:03:00 - [179] Originally by: Cpt Fina Why, oh why do local hull nanos only give 10% massreduction compared to the 15% mass reduction i-stabs currently give? Sure NanoBS will take a hit but so will also interceptors. I thought you were going to come up with a solution to the nanotrend without hurting Interceptors. Word! Dunno that much about this, but i dont like the idea of hurting ceptors at all. Sure, nerf the bs all u like, but surviving in a frigate is still more than a challenge already.
Victor Ivanov Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:42:00 - [180] I'm so very conflicted about this.. On one hand, I've been looking forward to this nerf. I have a fully deadspace fitted nanophoon in my hangar, and it has seen much wear and tear through the last couple of weeks. Sure, the overpoweredness aspect was highly hyped by the masses and masses of 3 million SP characters who are ****ed they lost their very first BS to somebody with a larger foundation of resources, but the point is that, unfortunately, the "newbie" population far outweighs the "veteran" population at this point in the game. In other words, the lack of risk was getting tedious. I pvp for the thrill, and after your umph number of 2006 pilot losing their Npc'ing battleship to me while yelling "OMG Haxx!" in local, it got boring, and it needed to be fixed. On the flipside, however, I am sad about one thing. The "mitigating gameplay" issue.. I would have preffered it if CCP implented some kind of counter method to nano ships. Hell, make the countermeasures so ueber powerful that there would be no point to flying nano ships anymore for all I care. As it stands, strangely enough, I find that the things I will miss most of my nanophoon is the fact that I COULD fly one. And that to me is what eve has always been about. If I want, I can pvp fit a mining barge. Sure, it's going to be crap, but at least it's possible. I've had fun in my phoon. Getting bored in space with a bunch of alliance mates and starting a game of "how far can you bump" was a great way to pass the time, and my phoon quickly gained an almost legendary status. In a bored mood, I could sit outside a station and bump any industrial 100km from docking range. ^_^ I treasure the eve-mails I've received from people telling me to "get a job". From a tactical perspective, I'll miss the feasibility of bumping capital ships. From now on, if a capital is within docking range, it is going to be even more difficult for small gangs to get them outside of aforementioned docking range. And thus, I am conflicted... I care absolutely nothing about using the nanophoon in combat, and I am fully happy that these changes will make combat more interesting again. No longer will pilots be able to gesture rudely at you as they charge away at 7km/s once they get into structure during a 1v1. No longer will gangs of nanopilots be completely impossible to catch. No longer will battleships outrace interceptors. As for me? No longer will I be able to fly directly towards the sun at 9.2km/s, imagining the engine roaring, seeing the planets fly by, hear the awed cries of other ships as I make a graceful pirouette on my restless way to a new horizon. Nanoships are dead. And for all of us Roleplayers who got so attached to the beauty of the stars as they move by, a little bit of immersion dies with it. Goodbye nanoships. No matter how unbalanced you were, you opened our eyes to another way of playing and enjoying EVE. You will be missed.

moroti Yakuza Corp	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:23:00 - [181] Edited by: moroti on 18/03/2007 23:21:50 Originally by: Nyxus All speed mods need a 12% sig penalty in addition to the stacking penalty coming on tuesday 2 Istab and a aux thrust rig on your Crow? Np, now it's sig is 28.5 instead of 21. Got the same thing on your Vaga? Np, your sig goes from 115 to 156. Want to put 2 nanos, 2 ODs, 2 Istabs, and 3 thrusters on your Domi? Sure, but it just went from a sig of 420 to a sig of 1164. Just like a MWD, higher speeds should equal higher signature for balance reasons. The currently implemented nerf still leaves nanos pretty much immune to turrets. Thats not enough. Ships meant for speed are balanced for it, like a ceptor or Vaga. Ships that can go fast and do tons of damage just becuase they have lots of lows and nontracking weapons should be dissuaded from doing so with a serious drawback. Just reducing thier speed from 10km/s to 3800 m/s isnt enough. Nyxus I think you're going about this the wrong way. Yes, nano ships are indeed overpowered and likewise, the changes outlined do not go far enough to address this travesty of balance. A more appropriate way to approach it would be to add a penalty to nosferatu which is another incredibly overpowered mechanism, one which is without doubt abused in combination with speed setup ships in order to achieve this effective invulnerability. I would propose that nosferatu modules would have a speed penalty applied per nosferatu equipped. The penalty would be large for heavy nosferatu, less so for medium and minimal for small nos. Taking some rough numbers, maybe 90% per heavy nosferatu would be appropriate. A nosphoon with four heavy nosferatu fitted would then be taken from 10,000 m/s to 10 m/s. A smaller penalty such as 10% for small nosferatu would take a 5000 m/s interceptor with one module fitted down to only 4500 m/s. Ships such as the pilgrim could then be given a built in bonus negating this to some degree. It could be explained by both the need for such an overpowered module requiring a huge amount of the propulsion subsystem power to be diverted to cope with the nosferatu and the ship needing to maintain a slow speed in order to lock on to the targets capacitor. A simple, elegant solution that solves two problems in one go while providing a counter to heavy nosferatu: the ability to run away out of range rather easily.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.03.19 04:03:00 - [182] Edited by: Blane Xero on 19/03/2007 04:01:47 Edited by: Blane Xero on 19/03/2007 04:00:27 Originally by: moroti I think you're going about this the wrong way. Yes, nano ships are indeed overpowered and likewise, the changes outlined do not go far enough to address this travesty of balance. A more appropriate way to approach it would be to add a penalty to nosferatu which is another incredibly overpowered mechanism, one which is without doubt abused in combination with speed setup ships in order to achieve this effective invulnerability. I would propose that nosferatu modules would have a speed penalty applied per nosferatu equipped. The penalty would be large for heavy nosferatu, less so for medium and minimal for small nos. Taking some rough numbers, maybe 90% per heavy nosferatu would be appropriate. A nosphoon with four heavy nosferatu fitted would then be taken from 10,000 m/s to 10 m/s. A smaller penalty such as 10% for small nosferatu would take a 5000 m/s interceptor with one module fitted down to only 4500 m/s. Ships such as the pilgrim could then be given a built in bonus negating this to some degree. It could be explained by both the need for such an overpowered module requiring a huge amount of the propulsion subsystem power to be diverted to cope with the nosferatu and the ship needing to maintain a slow speed in order to lock on to the targets capacitor. A simple, elegant solution that solves two problems in one go while providing a counter to heavy nosferatu: the ability to run away out of range rather easily. ....and what happens to ravens with 2 heavy nos? or any other 2 nos boat for that matter, they would effectively become immobile, it shouldnt effect everyone, you either didnt state yourself clearly enough or your idea is just bad,,,,permanently ---------- Photoshop, ú50 Time to make a sig that dont look idiotic - 5 hours time for forum mod to nerf it - 2 minutes Finding out you spent 5 hours on a sig that was too big - PRICELESS....
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:29:00 - [183] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 17/03/2007 12:30:24 Originally by: Achalia ...the curse. You nos as much as a nano-bs, at longer range, and your drones do more damage... WTB: 5 medium drones + bonus which do as much dps as 5 unbonussed heavy drones (nevermind that + 4 torp/cruise or 5 heavies WITH a bonus) If i had my way you could have it on a Myrmidon. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:44:00 - [184] Too bad my corpmate who just built a bunch of them for corp woke up this morning, found them converted, found his ME100 BPO for them converted, and went flying around all of Eve for six hours looking for a new BPO, thinking he'd encountered a glitch. Too bad my corpmates who purchased the rigs just hours before the change are going to get screwed over. Too bad the 20X speed nerf (Remember that? That would have been WONDERFUL) is going to be forgotten(?). What happened to that? It would have been a perfect solution, limiting ships to a max speed where they wouldn't be zipping past smaller speed-oriented ships anymore. Killing the speed mods, removing the mass reduction of them (wtf? the whole RP aspect is that the hull is rebuilt lighter; can someone explain this to me?), will kill agility in Eve. I suppose we're moving toward slow, heavy tanking battles, and getting rid of all freedom to fight otherwise, all variation in fighting style. Need for Speed, indeed. Please, make the Wolf's propulsion trails blue again!!!
moroti Yakuza Corp	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:46:00 - [185] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 19/03/2007 04:01:47 Edited by: Blane Xero on 19/03/2007 04:00:27 ....and what happens to ravens with 2 heavy nos? or any other 2 nos boat for that matter, they would effectively become immobile, it shouldnt effect everyone, you either didnt state yourself clearly enough or your idea is just bad,,,,permanently A raven is pretty much immobile anyway, this change would just bring other ships speeds down to caldari levels. How you can say this is a bad idea is frankly beyond me.
Caius Sivaris Minmatar Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:03:00 - [186] Originally by: Feral Karkassia Edited by: Feral Karkassia on 19/03/2007 08:57:39 Too bad my corpmate who just built a bunch of them for corp woke up this morning, found them converted, found his ME100 BPO for them converted, and went flying around all of Eve for six hours looking for a new BPO, thinking he'd encountered a glitch. Anyone having a ME100 rig BPO needs podding... I wish the labs would refuse to research a BPO over perfect...
Eewec Ourbyni Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:02:00 - [187] The trouble with this patch is this; Ships that were already slow, are now so slow they virtually go backwards. It's all very well folks moaning that there 10000000m/s ship now only does 9999999m/s but ships that only managed to get about 120m/s max before the patch, are now so slow as to not be even remotely funny. This is a sig... -- You think this guys post is nuts.... you should see his bio -- ... good, ain't it!
gordon cain Minmatar x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 11:33:00 - [188] Originally by: Syril Mert LOL. It has been known that nano ships would get nerfed for a long time now and still people complain :) Maybe indutrialists should make better plans themselves before complaining about CCPs plans. Read what people are saying ffs. We are not **ed about the speed nerf, but **ed because they made a module worth 40-50 mil worth almost nothing. All in one DT and without any previous warning. Nano-boats hasnt always been around you know. We have killed before in gank boats and we will do it again. Gordon Cain
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:48:00 - [189] Weird, I don't feel any slower... oh that's right, I spent millions of skillpoints in navigation and countless sums in implants and went fast before, and after, this delightful little change. This move by CCP is a brilliantly spiteful one, take that nano*****s It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit it.
CHAOS100 Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:12:00 - [190] I'm on a quest to lose my nano domi tonight. Who's with me? --------------

Aelena Thraant Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 03:48:00 - [191] I was all 100% for this patch... Everything looks good until.... Drones/Fighters can not be launched and fighters cannot be delegated while inside a control tower force field. What's the point of this... Was there a reason this was put in?
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:27:00 - [192] Originally by: CHAOS100 I'm on a quest to lose my nano domi tonight. Who's with me? Let me know how it turned out. I'm going to assume that it survived until told otherwise. Post-patch would be another story, of course. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Dungheap Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:38:00 - [193] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Selim Originally by: Nyxus All speed mods need a 12% sig penalty in addition to the stacking penalty coming on tuesday I don't see how that doesn't hurt ships that are meant to go fast. Well ships that are meant to go fast do so out of the box. These aren't the ships that stack tons of speedmods on. Would they take a small penalty? Yes. But they also get the most benefit from a speed mod because the base attributes are better. They went really fast before the changes, afterwards they can go even faster but at the penalty of higher signature. Can you really tell me that Ceptors and Vagas didn't go fast enough before Revelations to do thier job? Originally by: Selim Sure turrets suck against nanoships but thats kind of the point... to reduce the damage you are taking by going fast. Reduction, I don't mind. More likelyhood of getting away if things go bad balanced with less tanking is fine. My problem is that you will still have Domi's and Phoons orbiting at 22km going 3800m/s and being effectively immune from turrets, while they still do full damage and have massive cap warfare. A sig penalty would change that. They would still have speed induced damage reduction, and the ability to flee at high speed but they would no longer be invulnerable to turrets of the same class size. Just like the MWD, high speed is balanced with higher sig rad. Fast ships are balanced to go fast. Fast ships shouldn't be the ones with the most lows and non-tracking weapons who become virtually unhittable through speed while doing full damage. A sig penalty would keep this from happening. Nyxus ships using mwd already get sig. penalty. battleship sig. is already above the sig. of large turrets. the reason turrets can't hit well on close-orbiting fast movers is because of tracking.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:00:00 - [194] Originally by: Alita Tiphares Originally by: Velsharoon Sigh, I just bought 120m of rigs yesterday, almost all my isk. Great. I thouht i had two weeks in which to have some fun. Welcome back to eve \o/ You wont find any sympathy for nano*****s here. Do you know what ship he will use it ? maybe its interceptor and they need speed :)
ImmortalisMyst Caldari ASATOR	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:03:00 - [195] Imo, not tht its prob worth that much as i have only been playin this game maybe half a yr.. but i think a bs shud def be able to reach amazing speeds due to the size of engine that you would be able to fit on a bs compared to that of a smaller ships such as interceptor, however, their agility shud b extremely slow.. it shudnt be able to orbit a ship at such gr8 speeds due to it not being able to turn this quick at such speeds.. straight line travelling then why not? just what i bin thinkin, feel free to ignore.. You want something? Go get it..Period!
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:51:00 - [196] Originally by: Dungheap ships using mwd already get sig. penalty. battleship sig. is already above the sig. of large turrets. the reason turrets can't hit well on close-orbiting fast movers is because of tracking. On ships moving 3500+ m/s, large turrets will only reliably hit targets with a sig rad of 1100+. Even then the Mega is the only decent ship because of it's tracking bonus. The MWD penalty would be ON TOP OF the speed mod sig penalty. The problem is that lots of lowslots+nontracking weapons = invulnerable while you still do max damage. If speed only reduced damage that would be fine. But it doesn't. Once you reach a certain transversal you become unhittable. That is the issue. A sig penalty on speed mods would fix it so that speed BS would at least take SOME damage. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
RogueWing GIT-R-DUN Southern Connection	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:38:00 - [197] Originally by: ImmortalisMyst Imo, not tht its prob worth that much as i have only been playin this game maybe half a yr.. but i think a bs shud def be able to reach amazing speeds due to the size of engine that you would be able to fit on a bs compared to that of a smaller ships such as interceptor, however, their agility shud b extremely slow.. it shudnt be able to orbit a ship at such gr8 speeds due to it not being able to turn this quick at such speeds.. straight line travelling then why not? just what i bin thinkin, feel free to ignore.. Please buy a few vowels before you post next time. [G-R-D].....we've buried 50 kittens up to their necks in the yard......join us or we get out the lawn mower.
Victor Ivanov Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.22 19:11:00 - [198] Just have one thing to add to this thread. points to signature
Ashareth Caldari Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2007.03.23 15:31:00 - [199] Originally by: Aelena Thraant I was all 100% for this patch... Everything looks good until.... Drones/Fighters can not be launched and fighters cannot be delegated while inside a control tower force field. What's the point of this... Was there a reason this was put in? It's really easy in the end. You have ships(namely dread/carriers) that are expensive, tough, that do a LOT of damage, and they can boost your allies... now the downside is you HAVE to put them at risk in a battle to take care of the advantage and not hide it virtually invulnerable(a 24h invulnerability time span is invulnerability in Eve...). It's totally normal and the situation before was not. Only cowards and 0.0 carebears would have a problem with that(you know the same ones that spend a lot of time mocking and smacking high-sec mission runners cause they don't want to come in low sec...). Now you have to risk your precious ship for him to be effective and boost your pals. Great thing for once.:) ------------------------------------------------ "Heaven is for the Dead Hell is for the Living" Harrisson *Flowerchild* AndromFde
Boogerbuster	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:36:00 - [200] Frankly, CCP did not go far enough in nerfing speed. I still see cruisers doing over 6k/s. These insane speeds have ended traditional pvp. Most pvp'er now just fly around invulnerable looking for easy targets. I think snake implants should be removed from the game completely. All ships should have a maximum speed cap. For instance bs 2000/s, cruisers 4000/s and frigs 6000/s.



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