At last!

well, at last we've gone from step one to two, but at last none of the less!

Edit: I've noticed that you could shave off a few pages by saying that 'MI will be the same as PI' without the need to descriptions, and in the few cases of there being changes just add those changes in. There is no need to repeat what was already said (also may want to consider such with the link and storage facility descriptions too)

The idea is well thought, liked and contributed by many players in the F&I channel. I hope CCP will prove their capability of GÇÖcommitment to excellenceGÇÿ through adopting wonderful ideas from player like this.

to OP, I will like you with all my accounts and hope for best, but seriously don't get too attached.

Reading trough it. Till now this is looking just brilliant. Well i went trough version 1.0 and u mate are just amasing.
+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

But got one question. How u plan to do the population birth and death. I mean it should all go in real time.. And i dont know entirely the story of new eden, but i dont think there should be lot of population on those plantes.

I mean if every player can build cities of million of population wldnt be in line with the story i think. Shouldnt it be that every player can build a small encampment of few dozens of ppl who will work, support and defend the PI production.

CCP should start a developer program in a similar way that Smartphone app markets work. Create a framework where third parties can implement additions similar to this which are then accepted by CCP to be put in Eve.

Lot less work for CCP, lot more Sandbox.

Due to the sheer size of this proposal, I have compiled it into a pdf file and hosted it. Please download the 624kb file from the link provided below:

Planetary Interaction 2.1

*The file is clean. The site itself is like imageshack or photobucket for small files. Feel free to scan the file for viruses if you are somewhat anal about security.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - for God sake give this person a job and make it happen :)
+1 ^ 1000000000000000000000000

I guess the question to ask is this... someone running twenty, thirty-plus planets... how much work does this add to their already busy PI? How will it affect POS fuel prices? Will smaller corps dependant on less insane fuel prices wind up having their POS's shut down because of the side effects of this?

What are the ripple effects? How will it ultimately affect T2 production? Research? Everything the little guy with a POS in high sec does for a living?

1) It should be the same or similar time investment.

2) The little guy will shut down his hi-sec POS and do it all on hi-sec cities on planets. Or he can keep his POS. I don't care either way. The costs of setting up individual networks with slots will be the same as a POS. Only drawback would be that the POS uses fuel where individual networks dont, but the networks will cost isk to operate each month where the POS doesn't. If on the other hand, that network joins a city, it'l be very much like a POS in terms of cost. So it'l depend on the player and what he prefers.

3) POS fuel prices should remain largely as they are now, if not suffer a reduction in prices. Cities will consume POS fuels, as well as make more of them via bonuses to industrial networks spitting them out, so there should be a bit of an equilibrium thing going.

4) There will be an increase in t2 production and moongoo, in the medium to long terms. SO expect a decrease in prices associated with those items. This will also open up invention and moongo items to the little guy and take the monopoly away from 0.0 alliances and coalitions who hoard up all the techmoons they can find.

5) More slots, no more cues for slots = more research.

Hmm... and, considering Dust will not take effect in wormhole space, how would things work there? Cities and all that don't really make sense in frontier space.

Cities will be setup as it is in empire, low sec or 0.0.

But cities can only be wiped out by sub caps and capital ships in teh whs, since Dust wont work in whs and incursions dont happen there, leaving it up to the Eve players to do all the work.

Industrial networks can provide ice for wh towers from ice planets, thus eliminating the need for wh players to bring stuff into the wh. They would still have to go sell their lewt in empire, or they can use the cities to turn their wh into a new drone region, where they recycle and use everything. They could even start constructing super caps in whs.

Cities would allow wh alliances to entrench themselves even more in a wh, making for more good fights in order to serve eviction notices.

So it makes perfect sense.

I find myself intrigued. :-)

One last thought (for now...)

The transition to getting something like this set up from current would be expected to take how long and at what expense? People that rely on PI for their own pos fuel... would there be a significant period of fime of clenched bowels trying to get things running again before the pos goes belly up?

If the answer is to stock up prior, you're creating an artificial spike in prices as people take advantage of the transition.

(Note: not being critical at all, just trying to think of side-effects that may not be thought of initially.)

The homeless thing... I don't like that. Too much extra to worry about when all I want is to make fuels.

Now... if they can be converted into biomass or something... A billion isk for a city? People are running 20+ planets... that's insane. As nicely thought out as the idea is, it's really too much of a pain in the ass imo. PI is already a bit of a chore, but not so much that it's not worth doing. I'd fear something this elaborate blowing up to the point where you log in and spend hours dealing with all this stuff only to find you never had time to undock before bed. This is almost worthy of a game itself, not a side activity.

So go make POS fuels with your 20 separate industrial networks only.

Nobody is going to stop you or change the way you do it, make it more difficult or more time consuming. Unless some bigger alliance doesn't care for you doing this in their backyard out in 0.0.

Enjoy clearing them one at a time for the rest of days as well.

I'd rather do them all et mass by combining everything into 1 - 6 cities. But that's just lazy old me.

stuff.

As I say to everyone who brings up similar ideas, CCP has game designers already. They are usually good at their job, and are almost always far better than players are at this sort of thing. The chances of them seeing a proposal like this and fully adopting it are basically 0.

I've heard that so many times, and while I agree that ultimately game design should be entirely left up to CCP, I don't think it would hurt the game at all if some of CCP's game designers put their ego's down for a minute and took into consideration some of the kickass game design ideas that some players spend lots of time and energy devising. Seriously, what would it hurt? Eve's player base is full of smart people and if I were CCP I would make it mandatory for game designers to at least rummage through these ideas and see what good stuff can come from them.

Edit: I recall this original idea from another thread and I supported it then, so I can't imagine why I wouldn't now. Thanks for putting it all together into a PDF, I'll digest it over the next few days if I can. I'll give a pre-emptive +1 based on what I recall from the original thread. Great work!

Bare in mind, the new t3 bcs with large guns... I'm pretty sure that's a player created idea that's as old as eve itself.

Even the ships we ended up getting were player designed.

So this CCP adopting and implementing player ideas thing does happen....

Looking good! One nitpick... "Trail" accounts, in reference to SPI Banking. Not only a typo, but also a bad idea; I would suggest that it makes abundant sense to simply make loaned money one of many features that Trial Accounts are simply not eligible to engage in.

After giving it some much needed thought, I believe your right.

It will close down the funding mechanisms for new players, but it will definitely close down the all the loopholes for magic isk for SPI banking corps/alliances.

As I say to everyone who brings up similar ideas, CCP has game designers already. They are usually good at their job, and are almost always far better than players are at this sort of thing. The chances of them seeing a proposal like this and fully adopting it are basically 0.

In this specific case, CCP had a ton of stuff *planned* for PI, and it turned out to be too much work to implement, so they started cutting features, and we ended up with the system we have now, which is boring and lacks any sort of "game". PI is also where the DUST link will come into play, and they already need to figure out how to make that compelling, fun, and interesting.

I like a lot of this. I've always wanted some type of rts eletment to eve, available to players.

a couple notes though:
the "bank should NOT be able to generate ANY isk from nothing."

As I say to everyone who brings up similar ideas, CCP has game designers already. They are usually good at their job, and are almost always far better than players are at this sort of thing. The chances of them seeing a proposal like this and fully adopting it are basically 0.

In this specific case, CCP had a ton of stuff *planned* for PI, and it turned out to be too much work to implement, so they started cutting features, and we ended up with the system we have now, which is boring and lacks any sort of "game". PI is also where the DUST link will come into play, and they already need to figure out how to make that compelling, fun, and interesting.

Can anyone tell me is this even being taken in consideration? Because if it aint we should burn Jita again.

PI 2.1 - The Assembly Hall version
From: CCP Phantom
Sent: 2011.12.22 10:39
To: Asuka Solo

Hello Asuka Solo,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you as well!

Thank you for very much for your almost overwhelming work on the PI 2.1 document. The link to the pdf file is, from my point of view, fine and certainly that amount of work deserves an applause.

I already wrote a mail to Team Pi, so that they can take a closer look. :-)

Personally I think your ideas to be excellent and exciting, but I am not a game designer and I do not know the constrains under which PI has to operate.

It was a good idea to post in the Assembly Hall, the CSM can be a powerful help. Maybe you can try to contact the CSM members directly too. Or you can even try to run for CSM yourself in the long run too!


Best regards,
CCP Phantom
Community Coordinator

.CCP has been able to merge (read: bought) White Wolf Company. So, why not do same with Mindark, who produced great planet based game (Entropia Universe), and then use their system for planetary based gameplay?
Just food for thought, but worth trying...

This is best idea I've seen on this forum ... ever .

definitely +1


This will allow extend game-play to planets - from harmless PI structures and outposts to extremely expensive (and build-ed trough many months/years) planet-size cities overgrowing poses and stations in size and capabilities (with defenses breaking titans like matches) + armies of dust mercenaries fighting for corporations interests ... this will be game changer for EVE, no doubt.

Also one thing for me: It will be probably long and bumpy road to build meaningful cities (courscant-sized city could take years to build), so it could be nice to being able to merchandise city/planetary structures ownership.
So you could simply sell/buy existed structures shares on market/contract, instead making military escalation only viable option to take them.

As I say to everyone who brings up similar ideas, CCP has game designers already. They are usually good at their job, and are almost always far better than players are at this sort of thing. The chances of them seeing a proposal like this and fully adopting it are basically 0.

In this specific case, CCP had a ton of stuff *planned* for PI, and it turned out to be too much work to implement, so they started cutting features, and we ended up with the system we have now, which is boring and lacks any sort of "game". PI is also where the DUST link will come into play, and they already need to figure out how to make that compelling, fun, and interesting.

Bump for March Feedback

FYI:
This document is once again being updated into a PI 3.0 version to incorporate allot of the changes we've seen implemented and are now familiar with since the Dust open Beta was released.

Feedback from PI 2.0 (The F&I forums topic) beyond page 14 is also being processed and incorporated into the new version.

So when do you plan to upload the PI 3.0?

I have hopes of publishing it in August 2013.

I've just read the part about the social banks and the loans.

The loans part is fine, but what about the deposits? They should exsist together. Because when you start a bank, you don't just giving avay loans from your pocket, the main source for loans is the money from the client's deposits. Loan interest > deposit interest = proffit.

The deposits are facilitated by the existing corp wallet payment mechanics.

Players can make direct deposits into the bank by giving isk to the corp wallet the bank is linked to. I dont see a reason to formally code an interface for deposits given the existing mechanics in place.

In terms of actually creating a "wallet division" for every person who "banks" with that corporation... might prove to be a massive albeit impossible undertaking given some technical limitations.... But I read some interesting things about hanger revamps with the Odyssey expansion.. so lets wait and see what that POS revamp brings before we start mulling over ideas about delimiting corp wallet divisions. Maybe the hanger revamp idea could be applied to wallet divisions.

This idea is incredibly popular, despite the fact that it not only flies in the face of what CCP imagines Planetary Industry to be like, but also splits up PI into three categories even when it would be far better to have them all integrated with each other entirely.

Thank you for the link here. The document was a very interesting read. If you'd ever apply for CSM you'd surely had my vote to promote this.

Allow me to add some points of critisism tough:

There are many repetitive passages about the planetary an lunar facilities which in effect are the same. Possibly you could pull the two togheter and make emphasisized passages about the differences applying (eg POS effects, Custom offices, Atmosphere.)

I would also like to voice my disagreement about the habitability classification of the planets.

I'd suggest a Master of Orion approach on planet type boni/mali that are more diverse than just population growth effects such as population size bonus on planets with own atmosphere (upper four on the list), maintenance penalty on planets with harsh climate (more heating on ice planets), reinforced structures on storm, lava and plasma planets incurring a building cost penalty. Moons should be classified as barren planets imho.

To my opinion it should be more like

Habitable:
Temperate

Oceanic
Ice
Storm
------------- upper have atmosphere (and water), lower have none and would need a complete hermetic sealed encapsulation -------------adding to building and maintenance cost)
Barren/Moons
Lava
Plasma

Gas (no solid nor fluid ground to build on, basically a settlement of any kind would in effect be a very planet near space station facing gravity and grave atmospheric pressure)
Hostile


In the Military Installations i miss some sort of Security Contracting Center as a kind of DUSTie base where the authorized city officials can contract mercs to assist local ground defense on a player set set of conditions like capturing/recapturing districts via domination, capture the flag or depletion of respawns, defending for an amount of time, sabotage, extraction and escort, emergency evacuation of goods roughly resembling the sidetasks in Mass Effect

Vice versa the invading fleet could have a ship-module (drop-off invason command center or so) allowing for troop deployment as soon as the ship is within range (usable for DUST-mercs with or without NPC soldiers, Vehicles, etc)

As I say to everyone who brings up similar ideas, CCP has game designers already. They are usually good at their job, and are almost always far better than players are at this sort of thing. The chances of them seeing a proposal like this and fully adopting it are basically 0.

In this specific case, CCP had a ton of stuff *planned* for PI, and it turned out to be too much work to implement, so they started cutting features, and we ended up with the system we have now, which is boring and lacks any sort of "game". PI is also where the DUST link will come into play, and they already need to figure out how to make that compelling, fun, and interesting.

Anything new happening in this field? Any hope for PI 3.0 anytime soon?

I highly appreciate the work!

I just started playing EVE and I think that there's a beautiful world out there, but you can do nothing with it...