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Sticky:[October] Rorqual Astrahus citadel docking fix

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14452	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:35:47 - [1] - Quote Hey folks. We've got a bug fix coming in October that I think is especially important to draw your attention to ahead of time. At the moment Rorquals can dock in Astrahus medium citadels, which is a bug. They actually even use the frigate undock port. The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. We're fixing this bug in the main October release which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. Even though this is a fairly simple bug fix, I wanted to create a sticky thread just to make sure that there was some visibility for it ahead of the normal patch notes. I'd like to avoid people getting surprised by this fix as much as possible. We're working on the dev blog for the big Rorqual changes coming in November, and that will be ready for everyone soon. Thanks! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Yroc Jannseen Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 155	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:52:01 - [2] - Quote As the honorable representative from the great organization of GSOL, we are completely opposed to this change with every ounce of our being. Save the Whales.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2493	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:52:38 - [3] - Quote I assume Freighters and Jump Freighters will still enjoy the ability to dock in an Astrahus? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Viserion Pavarius Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:53:01 - [4] - Quote Hey guys, I have the aresome idea of making a already soon to be useless ship even more useless! inb4 ISD snipe
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3006	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:53:04 - [5] - Quote Freighters? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Whale Sex Patriotic Tendencies Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:53:32 - [6] - Quote Please Save ME!!
Mierin Arthie Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:55:22 - [7] - Quote Any reason behind the decision to not allow Rorquals to dock in Astrahus when Freighters and Jump Freighters can?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14453	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:55:26 - [8] - Quote Freighter and JF docking access remains unchanged, they have always been intended to be dockable in Astrahus citadels. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Denngarr B'tarn Cripple Creek Serrice Council. 5	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:57:39 - [9] - Quote Jump Freighters, Freighters, Orcas... what about these?
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2493	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:57:52 - [10] - Quote Considering the rorqual's primary ability to haul ore, not to mention its (assumed) direct mining role coming with the rebalance, denying the rorqual the ability to dock in an Astrahus is, frankly, absurd. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Jay Amazingness GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 42	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:58:09 - [11] - Quote thank you for fixing this game breaking bug Jay "I'm gay" Amazingness Headshotting FCs since day one.
Kelmantis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:58:09 - [12] - Quote I guess you only noticed this now, rather than it being a design decision that has been reversed?
Awkward Pi Duolus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 175	Posted - 2016.09.20 15:58:12 - [13] - Quote Mierin Arthie wrote: Any reason behind the decision to not allow Rorquals to dock in Astrahus when Freighters and Jump Freighters can? Because one of those is not like the other two, duh?
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3006	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:01:49 - [14] - Quote Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: Mierin Arthie wrote: Any reason behind the decision to not allow Rorquals to dock in Astrahus when Freighters and Jump Freighters can? Because one of those is not like the other two, duh? Uh, all three are capital ships. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2255	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:02:15 - [15] - Quote Denngarr B'tarn wrote: Jump Freighters, Freighters, Orcas... what about these? Orcas are Large hulls, not XLGÇöthey're battleship-sizedGÇöso it's highly unlikely they'll make them unable to dock where every other subcap can. That said, this really is a silly change. It may have been a bug, but it's a bug that made sense. Industrial ships aren't as survivable as combat ships. Why not give them a break?
GOB the Magician Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 95	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:02:52 - [16] - Quote Do you guys actively sit around thinking about ways to get less people out into space?
Traumatica GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 10	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:03:17 - [17] - Quote You really can't help yourself, can you Fozzie?
Yroc Jannseen Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 158	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:04:16 - [18] - Quote Querns wrote: Considering the rorqual's primary ability to haul ore, not to mention its (assumed) direct mining role coming with the rebalance, denying the rorqual the ability to dock in an Astrahus is, frankly, absurd. I guess the follow on to this is, will the Rorqual be able to dock at medium sized Mining Platforms, which presumably will be bonused for refining?
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3006	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:05:04 - [19] - Quote Perhaps leave them alone until you release the Mining Platform. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Mapster Tacitus Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:05:34 - [20] - Quote Call this Bug a Feature and everything is fine. #SaveTheWhales

Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 392	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:05:39 - [21] - Quote It has been in the game for 4 months, no reason to fix it now, might as well leave it as is and call it a feature.....
Kyras Delani Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:05:58 - [22] - Quote So was this actually discussed with concerned industrialists either at the CSM summit / weekly meets or the structure tweetfleet slack? or did you just throw darts at a dartboard labeled "ironic Rorqual buffs"
Philip Shazih Echelon Research The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:06:04 - [23] - Quote The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you?
Sonic Sparrow Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:06:31 - [24] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Freighter and JF docking access remains unchanged, they have always been intended to be dockable in Astrahus citadels. Why does moving ore from a rorqual to a freighter to get it refined make any sense when it comes to game design? Astrahus refining is encouraged via gameplay mechanics. This removes a big benefit of owning a rorqual. Rorqual is to Freighter like Miasmos is to Iteron V. Treat your capitals like you treat your subcaps and you get a clear line of gameplay progression. Actually if I was one to Tinfoil it sounds like Industrial Arrays will be able to refine ore.....
Nymblar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:08:17 - [25] - Quote What is the motivation behind this - I don't buy this being a bug, this feels like a conscious design decision that you're passing off as a "bug". Jump Freighters are bigger than Rorquals and yet they can still dock.
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3006	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:09:25 - [26] - Quote Sonic Sparrow wrote: Actually if I was one to Tinfoil it sounds like Industrial Arrays will be able to refine ore..... Yes. The only way this makes any sense is if the new structures to be released at the same time have overlapping functionality. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tiberizzle Amok. Goonswarm Federation 129	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:13:41 - [27] - Quote this is completely unnecessary and has not demonstrated itself to be a problem in the several months the rorqual has had this capability with the majority of nullsec / lowsec T2 refineries in the game being astrahuses at this point, this will be disruptive further it will discourage much desired "in the belt" rorqual usage by complicating in belt compression with the need for additional citadels, industrial ships and characters please learn to recognize your limits and paint within the lines fozzie, industry is most assuredly not your wheelhouse
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3007	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:16:00 - [28] - Quote It really feels like it is too late to go back on this. Everybody has established their mining operations around the Astrahus and this is quite disruptive, especially considering rigs if we now have to move to Fortizars. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
ckinoutdahoe Easy Co. Get Off My Lawn 12	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:22:09 - [29] - Quote HI Everyone, Ok CCP I do understand that it is a mistake that you never intended for the Rorq not to dock at the medium sized citidel . Personally I dont care as it will not affect me in the least nor will it affect those who can well afford a fortizar or dozens of them. But and and a long pause; you may wish to reconsider as it will affect the player base that YOU most wanted to go to null space in the first place. Consider a newish corp that does not have 100b to spend on a fortizar how are they going to dock the Rorq at all once all the stations go bye bye..with exception of the npc stations in null. I dont see the clarity of thought in doing this!!! Does anyone else??? It is going to be a large change which may park many Rorq's as it is after the November change if they dont get reprocessed for something more useful. While I have your undivided attention maybe clarify in a different post in detail about the pos changes as it is only a month and change away. As I can foresee a ** storm a brewing to ** off so many of your old member base a great deal.
Wibla Tactical Narcotics Team 164	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:23:43 - [30] - Quote Yet another unsurprising move from a CCP that is increasingly hostile to the player base.

Daugan Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:27:19 - [31] - Quote Yet another unwanted, unthought through, and useless change. Thanks CCP.
Rob Kaichin Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists 160	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:30:27 - [32] - Quote Posting in a Goonswarm CTA thread. I like it, and would prefer if all caps were locked out of Astrahuses, and couldn't tether on them at all.
Erick Asmock Patriotic Tendencies Goonswarm Federation 8	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:33:37 - [33] - Quote Nymblar wrote: What is the motivation behind this - I don't buy this being a bug, this feels like a conscious design decision that you're passing off as a "bug". Jump Freighters are bigger than Rorquals and yet they can still dock. Significantly so....Rorq is 14,500,00 m3 and JF and F are both 16,250,000 m3 I mean never let logic get in your way. It's a simple concept. Don't induce mechanics that break fun in the game and "fix" things that are not breaking game play. The fact the reasonable and logical people can understand why this would be a bad mechanic says it all. The more mechanics that inhibit player fun you introduce, the more tedious you make the game, the less people will line up to play the game regardless if it is free or pay to play.
Oceane Chevalier Maple Moose The Bastion 1	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:35:07 - [34] - Quote It is difficult to understand the full rational given we only have a portion of the equation in hand (we just know about the citadels). Maybe with the full picture of structures (indust. arrays, etc.) will we eventually get it. Today clearly most are not. Given there were no panics or game breaking situations to leave it "as is", why not wait for new structures to make this change? It simply creates confusion & frustration without the means to calm the players with a "but here is what will replace it" type feedback. So unless you could provide the full explanation, there are no underlying needs to change it immediately.
handige harrie Hedion University Amarr Empire 357	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:40:05 - [35] - Quote If you hate the rorqual that much, why not remove it from the game and reimburse skills? last 3 or 4 years have been nothing but nerfs. Baddest poster ever
Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 250	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:40:09 - [36] - Quote How about you postpone this change to the release of drilling platforms, which will - as far as I know - nerf refining rigs in citadels, so most miners will want to switch over to them anyway (they can then take this into account for their decision which size they're going to build)? Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 393	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:40:24 - [37] - Quote Philip Shazih wrote: The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you? Citadel aren't supposed to excel in refining, that is a stop gap measure until drilling platforms come about Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. If you aren't quite sure, re read the dev blog for the structures and look at the part where it talks rigs - it specifically didn't put those rigs in with citadel rigs, cause the aren't it is a band aid until the drilling platforms arrive
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3008	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:41:53 - [38] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: How about you postpone this change to the release of drilling platforms, which will - as far as I know - nerf refining rigs in citadels, so most miners will want to switch over to them anyway (they can then take this into account for their decision which size they're going to build)? This is reasonable. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Damocles Orindus Shadow State Goonswarm Federation 38	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:44:04 - [39] - Quote It's okay. Didn't need an industrial ship that hauls and compresses ore to be able to dock with the Astrahaus refinery. Par for the course on the Rorqual train wreck coming down the line.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2322	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:48:51 - [40] - Quote I'm inordinately fond of miner tears and even I think this is unwarranted. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Sarah Flynt Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity 250	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:48:54 - [41] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. Source? Last I heard was that they were thinking about removal of mining rigs from citadels without destroying them, which is quite a difference. Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Erick Asmock Patriotic Tendencies Goonswarm Federation 9	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:56:03 - [42] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Philip Shazih wrote: The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you? Citadel aren't supposed to excel in refining, that is a stop gap measure until drilling platforms come about Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. If you aren't quite sure, re read the dev blog for the structures and look at the part where it talks rigs - it specifically didn't put those rigs in with citadel rigs, cause the aren't it is a band aid until the drilling platforms arrive Assuming you are correct... Putting mechanics like this as stop gap measures are in and of themselves game breaking mechanics. Nothing is worse than directing your CUSTOMER BASE in one direction temporarily and them pulling the carpet out from under them...horrible design and horrible customer service. 1 star in yelp for this.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2255	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:56:08 - [43] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: I'm inordinately fond of miner tears and even I think this is unwarranted. It's just more of the same, really. 'This is how we think you should be doing it, so we're going to force you to do it that way'. Small mining groups in lowsec can't afford a Fortizar, and even if they could, a Fortizar onlining in lowsec or NPC null is a big fat target. Might as well have told the smaller mining groups "So you were feeling good about your small mining group managing to buy a Rorqual for boosts? Well, too bad. Go back to sitting in a POS (while we let you) and running a compression array. You're not allowed to use the shiny new toys." There's literally no visible reason to push this through now, instead of waiting for the industrial complexes and drilling platforms. It's not like people are using Battle Rorquals en masse and then ducking into waiting astrahusen.
Boroth Kindeze NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:57:13 - [44] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We've got a bug fix coming in October that I think is especially important to draw your attention to ahead of time. At the moment Rorquals can dock in Astrahus medium citadels, which is a bug. They actually even use the frigate undock port. The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. We're fixing this bug in the main October release which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. Even though this is a fairly simple bug fix, I wanted to create a sticky thread just to make sure that there was some visibility for it ahead of the normal patch notes. I'd like to avoid people getting surprised by this fix as much as possible. We're working on the dev blog for the big Rorqual changes coming in November, and that will be ready for everyone soon. Thanks! Either you are very fond on SM and like to be the most hated dev in the history of Eve (and thinking about Greyscale makes that difficult to believe), or after the sov failure you still have no idea what customer service is and what the majority of your 0.0 playerbase wants. Or more likely, you simply don't care. Which begs me the simply question why ccp hasn't fired you yet...
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 394	Posted - 2016.09.20 16:59:47 - [45] - Quote Sarah Flynt wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. Source? Last I heard was that they were thinking about removal of mining rigs from citadels without destroying them, which is quite a difference. Nah, before people spent 250 bil on XL reprocessing rigs, they asked and it was made clear you would get a one time refund of rigs
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 394	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:01:40 - [46] - Quote Erick Asmock wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Philip Shazih wrote: The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you? Citadel aren't supposed to excel in refining, that is a stop gap measure until drilling platforms come about Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. If you aren't quite sure, re read the dev blog for the structures and look at the part where it talks rigs - it specifically didn't put those rigs in with citadel rigs, cause the aren't it is a band aid until the drilling platforms arrive Assuming you are correct... Putting mechanics like this as stop gap measures are in and of themselves game breaking mechanics. Nothing is worse than directing your CUSTOMER BASE in one direction temporarily and them pulling the carpet out from under them...horrible design and horrible customer service. 1 star in yelp for this. Did you really think the Citadel would become the reprocessing platform after all the dev blogs specifically said the drilling platform would be? They needed to do it to get rid of outposts quicker, so they don't hang around as long as POS will have to. It wasn't a secret
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3009	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:04:00 - [47] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Erick Asmock wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Philip Shazih wrote: The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you? Citadel aren't supposed to excel in refining, that is a stop gap measure until drilling platforms come about Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. If you aren't quite sure, re read the dev blog for the structures and look at the part where it talks rigs - it specifically didn't put those rigs in with citadel rigs, cause the aren't it is a band aid until the drilling platforms arrive Assuming you are correct... Putting mechanics like this as stop gap measures are in and of themselves game breaking mechanics. Nothing is worse than directing your CUSTOMER BASE in one direction temporarily and them pulling the carpet out from under them...horrible design and horrible customer service. 1 star in yelp for this. Did you really think the Citadel would become the reprocessing platform after all the dev blogs specifically said the drilling platform would be? They needed to do it to get rid of outposts quicker, so they don't hang around as long as POS will have to. It wasn't a secret The logical time to lock the Rorqual out is therefore when the replacement structures are released. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Francisco Belaqua KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:09:47 - [48] - Quote Just wanted to add my voice to the general consensus that this is horrible. This completely destroys the Rorq's ability to do Null Sec logistics in feasible manner. Please reconsider.
Rendering Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm 13	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:12:37 - [49] - Quote Querns wrote: Considering the rorqual's primary ability to haul ore, not to mention its (assumed) direct mining role coming with the rebalance, denying the rorqual the ability to dock in an Astrahus is, frankly, absurd. Quark receives a shuttle that his cousin Gaila has been promising him for years. He christens it Quark's Treasure and for its maiden voyage takes his brother Rom and nephew Nog to Earth, where Nog has been accepted to Starfleet Academy in San Francisco. Quark also intends to make the trip financially profitable by smuggling a load of illicit kemocite explosive to Orion on the return voyage. As the ship nears Earth, Rom finds that due to sabotage by Gaila they are unable to drop out of warp. However, by detonating part of the unstable kemocite "shipment" to create an explosion they can drop out of warp. Unfortunately, in doing so the ship and crew are thrown back in time to July 1947 and crash land near Roswell, New Mexico. The Ferengi awake on a U.S. military base, where the Americans believe them to be Martians. After Rom repairs their malfunctioning universal translators hidden in their ear canals, Quark begins negotiations with the humans, whom he considers backward and gullible, to sell advanced technology from the future. He brags to Rom and Nog in private that "within a year we'll be running this planet," and dreams of cultivating a vast Ferengi economic empire. Unknown to the Ferengi, however, Constable Odo had stowed away aboard the shuttle with them and as a result was also thrown back in time. Using his shape shifter abilities, Odo is able to move about the base locating and repairing their spacecraft. He then appears as a German Shepherd Guard Dog in the room where the Ferengi are being held, and morphs into his normal form, telling Quark that he knew about the kemocite smuggling, and that they must try to preserve the timeline and not alter Earth history. Quark, Rom, and Nog then escape from custody with the help of an Army nurse and her college professor boyfriend who has been brought to the base to try to establish dialogue with the aliens. By harnessing the energy of an atomic bomb test scheduled for that morning, Rom is able to use the remaining kemocite to cause a temporal rift which returns them to their proper time. After dropping off Nog at Starfleet Academy, Quark has to sell the damaged spacecraft for salvage and he, Odo, and Rom return to Deep Space Nine. As the episode ends Odo is seen strong arming Quark off to a holding cell to face charges of smuggling contraband.
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 690	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:14:29 - [50] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Orcas are Large hulls, not XLGÇöthey're battleship-sizedGÇöso it's highly unlikely they'll make them unable to dock where every other subcap can. Freighers... ...are made with Capital Components. ...require Capital Ship Construction to build. ...were going to use XL Rigs before CCP went with Lows instead of Rigs on them. Really, the only thing that doesn't make them a Capital Ship is that you don't need Capital Ships to fly them. That's one single thing that makes them not capitals compared to three that do. For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki

Amak Boma Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire 206	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:14:38 - [51] - Quote removing docking access for rorqual inn astrahus will lead to less use of that ship. you can compress ore in POS,CITADEL you can do mining boost with ORCA, command ship sush sleipnir , absolution or nighthawk or even use command destroyer. now you made rorqual even less useful
Wrent Simulus Space Rocks Industries Solyaris Chtonium 20	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:20:21 - [52] - Quote This is a poorly thought out change. Don't echo chamber your logic behind this and listen to the folks here please. Focus your efforts on other things that need fixed, not on making an already under utilized, and undervalued ship even more under utilized and under valued.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2257	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:20:35 - [53] - Quote Winter Archipelago wrote: Zappity wrote: ... the Rorqual is going to struggle enough as it is if you insist on making them immobile while boosting. Rorquals, post-change, will not require Sieging to be able to boost. They'll be getting a 4% per level boost to mining and a 3% per level boost to shields when outside of siege. Using the Industrial Core will increase their boosts by up to 25% (for the upcoming T2 Industrial Core). Arrendis wrote: Orcas are Large hulls, not XLGÇöthey're battleship-sizedGÇöso it's highly unlikely they'll make them unable to dock where every other subcap can. Freighers... ...are made with Capital Components. ...require Capital Ship Construction to build. ...were going to use XL Rigs before CCP went with Lows instead of Rigs on them. Really, the only thing that doesn't make them a Capital Ship is that you don't need Capital Ships to fly them. That's one single thing that makes them not capitals compared to three that do. Emphasis added in my original statement. The ORCAGÇöthe Large hull in questionGÇöis not a capital ship. It's not a freighter. It is an 'Industrial Command Ship' that takes the same rigs as a battleship. I said nothing about freighters.
Wednesday Askira Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:23:02 - [54] - Quote I assume in a few weeks you'll be telling us that all module slots except 1 high slot for indy core will be being removed in nov?
penifSMASH ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 462	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:23:45 - [55] - Quote Imagine if the CFC put this much fervor into their defense of Deklein LMao
DrZoid Berg KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:24:14 - [56] - Quote Don't worry, making jump clones without standings is an unintended feature, but this is such a game breaking bug, it has to go. #JustCCPThings
Opner Dresden Lugus Foundry The Explicit Alliance 41	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:24:28 - [57] - Quote A "bug" that hasn't had a single word mentioned in 5 months and is probably a database entry away from being fixed... K... that sounds really believable. Either way, this is dumb to do in October. At least wait until the rorq changes come.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6400	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:30:10 - [58] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. We're fixing this bug in the main October release which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. /facepalm I'm speechless.
Favonius85 House Aratus Goonswarm Federation 32	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:30:29 - [59] - Quote Everything is working as intended right up until it isn't. #ccpthings
Anoron Secheh Strategic Exploration and Development Corp ChaosTheory. 18	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:32:16 - [60] - Quote Maybe CCP is just trying to make everything worth more? Less miners = lower supply = high prices = expensive ships.

Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2500	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:35:54 - [61] - Quote Is the ill will being engendered here really worth making it so you don't take a tiny bump on the rightmost fortizar subcap undock? Would it not be better for all involved to just remove that undock from the list of places where subcaps can undock? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Katerina Ivanovich The Lost. 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:36:27 - [62] - Quote CCP, your really ruining this game, and your subscription rates are already low. Having the whale of a Rorq on the field to boost miners is quite ridicules, as it will be an easy target to kill. Oh, that is what your "shooting" for? I see. So mineral prices sky rocket as does the cost to plex accounts. Star Citizen, here I come.
ISD Max Trix isd community communications liaisons 372	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:36:36 - [63] - Quote Forum Rules of Conduct wrote: 5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. 31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. # Two Post Removed for one or more of the above reasons. ISD Max Trix Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department *I do not respond to Evemails.*
Regan Rotineque The Scope Gallente Federation 462	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:38:36 - [64] - Quote another "out of touch" with your customer base type of change fozzie do you even mine bro?
Wednesday Askira Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:40:03 - [65] - Quote Anoron Secheh wrote: Maybe CCP is just trying to make everything worth more? Less miners = lower supply = high prices = expensive ships. I am now applying my tinfoil hat. What if they secretly are trying to get all the miners to stop mining, increasing the cost of minerals, and everything minerals are used to make, forcing more players to buy plex.
Wednesday Askira Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:40:52 - [66] - Quote Regan Rotineque wrote: another "out of touch" with your customer base type of change fozzie do you even mine bro? I'm a firm believer that their ventures have never been undocked.
Bobb Bobbington Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 342	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:43:12 - [67] - Quote I got so excited for some info on the indy citadel when I saw there were 57 posts in Upcoming Features... This is a signature. It has a 25m signature. No it's not a cosmic signature. Probably. Btw my corp's recruiting.
Retar Aveymone DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation 1046	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:43:28 - [68] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. Source? Last I heard was that they were thinking about removal of mining rigs from citadels without destroying them, which is quite a difference. Nah, before people spent 250 bil on XL reprocessing rigs, they asked and it was made clear you would get a one time refund of rigs are they hoping to get refunded the isk once they realize refining asshouses exist or something who the **** bought those
Wednesday Askira Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:44:10 - [69] - Quote NOVEMBER 2016: http://i.imgur.com/uzhaVk0.jpg Prepare yourselves
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2689	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:44:34 - [70] - Quote Querns wrote: Considering the rorqual's primary ability to haul ore, not to mention its (assumed) direct mining role coming with the rebalance, denying the rorqual the ability to dock in an Astrahus is, frankly, absurd. I agree. This has to be one of the dumbest changes you have made since you released citadels. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2501	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:44:56 - [71] - Quote Retar Aveymone wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Sarah Flynt wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. Source? Last I heard was that they were thinking about removal of mining rigs from citadels without destroying them, which is quite a difference. Nah, before people spent 250 bil on XL reprocessing rigs, they asked and it was made clear you would get a one time refund of rigs are they hoping to get refunded the isk once they realize refining asshouses exist or something who the **** bought those Idiots, who thought they'd improve the yield on reprocessing nyxes, clearly. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Movilion Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:48:04 - [72] - Quote And Carriers? Does anyone thinks about the Carriers? So, a lot of drama about F, JF and Rorquals, but Carriers are Smaller than F and JF, and even smaller than some Battleships!;ok this is only visual, but... Even some Dreads are smaller than a J or JF, and non can dock in Astrahus. Please, dont try to justify that Rorquals should be able to dock in Astrahus cause they are smaller than F and JF. I think Rorquals should go as Carriers & Dreads, BUT as many people said if the new Industrial Structures are going to grant dock access to Rorquals, should be changed when those are release.
Commander Spurty 1642	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:51:13 - [73] - Quote If you haven't already, please also sticky (in the biggest font you can afford), that bumping ships out of tethering is not only legal, but every pilots duty to punish the cheap and the lazy There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Pirokobo Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 38	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:52:12 - [74] - Quote I endorse this change and the anarchy it will cause.
Katerina Ivanovich The Lost. 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:56:25 - [75] - Quote Wednesday Askira wrote: NOVEMBER 2016: http://i.imgur.com/uzhaVk0.jpg Prepare yourselves Pure truth, can have my refund of 2.5 bil approximately or will they wait until their 100mil?
Anita Name Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:56:46 - [76] - Quote http://imgur.com/a/ADT0A The justification for rorqs is also that they are industrial, not combat ships. CCPs justification is likely that it doesn't line up with hisec gate permissions and are trying to 'fix' it regardless of whether or not it makes gameplay sense
Kismeteer Bat Country Pandemic Legion 886	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:57:26 - [77] - Quote Were people abusing the rorqual's abilities inside astrahuses? Were there complaints from someone because of this? Or is this just CCP's fixing another non-existant problem because ... reasons? Is there a reason a larger ship like a freighter (a charon is 16.2 mil m^3) can dock but a rorqual is only 14.5 mil m^3 can't dock? Could this change wait till rorquals are 'fixed' as they are pretty crap already? Was the CSM talked to about this?
Anita Name Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.09.20 17:59:28 - [78] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: Was the CSM talked to about this? Search your heart and you will find emptiness and also the answer to this question.
Bear Templar iMine Industries The Five 15	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:02:47 - [79] - Quote Whilst not a current Rorqual or Astrahaus user myself, i feel this is a bad decision (with current information) Many smaller industrial entities can afford an astrahaus together as well as Rorq so that they can have their little "island" of mining or whatever, but they'll struggle with a fortizar. That being said - it depends on how the Rorq will interact with the new Engineering Complexes. If a fish weighs 1 Kilogram plus half its own weight, how much does it weigh? (It's not 1.5kg btw)
DrZoid Berg KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:03:44 - [80] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: CCP's fixing another non-existant problem because ... reasons? This is basically what's happening with this magical bug fix.

Boroth Kindeze NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:06:51 - [81] - Quote ISD Max Trix wrote: [quote=Forum Rules of Conduct] 5. Trolling is prohibited. . Can you redirect me then where I can make a complaint about a CCP employee, or is voicing my opinion against CCP in general forbidden?
Katerina Ivanovich The Lost. 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:09:45 - [82] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: Were people abusing the rorqual's abilities inside astrahuses? Were there complaints from someone because of this? Or is this just CCP's fixing another non-existant problem because ... reasons? "Khakis?"
Creecher Virpio Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:11:02 - [83] - Quote Well thank God we got this game breaking bug fixed. I mean, who needs citadel bumping fixed, or bumping in general, or capital resizing when we had roquals docking in astra's?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2260	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:11:31 - [84] - Quote Movilion wrote: And Carriers? Does anyone thinks about the Carriers? So, a lot of drama about F, JF and Rorquals, but Carriers are Smaller than F and JF, and even smaller than some Battleships!;ok this is only visual, but... Even some Dreads are smaller than a J or JF, and non can dock in Astrahus. Please, dont try to justify that Rorquals should be able to dock in Astrahus cause they are smaller than F and JF. I think Rorquals should go as Carriers & Dreads, BUT as many people said if the new Industrial Structures are going to grant dock access to Rorquals, should be changed when those are release. They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 3105	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:17:26 - [85] - Quote I honestly think the mechanic should stay. At a minimum until the full rorqual changes acome out (possibly until we hear about whatever the refining array will be). It would be much more seamless transition for whatever is on the table for it.
Commander Spurty 1642	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:18:35 - [86] - Quote Arrendis wrote: They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14454	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:24:44 - [87] - Quote Tiberizzle wrote: please learn to recognize your limits and paint within the lines fozzie, industry is most assuredly not your wheelhouse I find this comment especially amusing as this is literally a case of painting within the lines that were determined by others. :sigh: Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6401	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:26:12 - [88] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Arrendis wrote: They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. Hilmar? That you?

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14456	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:28:11 - [89] - Quote Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Commander Spurty 1642	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:32:56 - [90] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Arrendis wrote: They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. Hilmar? That you? lmfao - he did say that didn't he? He's correct as well. If you don't believe me, "I'm sending you 4 trillion ISK". There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP

Kithran 130	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:34:14 - [91] - Quote One thing that appears to have been missed so far is the impact this will have on small group logistics (as opposed to mining operations). At present a small group can have a base and a way of moving bulk cargo to that base for approx 4 billion - 1.5 for the astrahus, 2.5 for a rorqual. Cargo rigged a rorqual is a poor man's jump frieghter - smaller capacity and unable to enter high sec but still has the ability to carry things like packaged battleships and a fatigue reduction that allows multiple trips. If the ability of a rorqual to dock is removed this cost more than doubles. Yes I realise this is an edge case but its a point I haven't seen raised yet. Note I do own a rorqual I use for logistics purposes but also have a jump freighter so this change will have a minimal if any impact on my activities.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6401	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:36:55 - [92] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within mine or any other single individual's control), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. Fozzie, it is very troubling that the idea was broached, a patch scheduled, probably worked-on, and announced ... without anyone thinking "Hmm, could this be considered a bad idea?" Curious: Did you announce this change to the CSM and get their feedback? Also, the only time devs stumble into the industry forum seems to be is by mistake.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6401	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:39:05 - [93] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Arrendis wrote: They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. Hilmar? That you? lmfao - he did say that didn't he? He's correct as well. If you don't believe me, "I'm sending you 4 trillion ISK". More importantly, that statement helped spark the Jita riots.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1211	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:42:35 - [94] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. This is the right move, Fozzie. Thank you for listening to your customer base on this. Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 691	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:47:42 - [95] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Emphasis added in my original statement. The ORCAGÇöthe Large hull in questionGÇöis not a capital ship. It's not a freighter. It is an 'Industrial Command Ship' that takes the same rigs as a battleship. I said nothing about freighters. Oops, you're right. Sorry. Orcas are an odd hybrid between large and capital ships. Orcas require Capital Components and Capital Ship Components to build, and are listed under the Capitals group of Ships (in the Capital Industrial Ships group). On the other side of the coin, they use Large rigs and are built in Large SAA's. A strange hybrid between ship classes. For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Larodil House Aratus Goonswarm Federation 11	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:48:43 - [96] - Quote Classic CCP... Fixing issues that noone knew were an issue. Also, for those people who say that Orca's and Freighters are not capital ships, it takes ONLY capital parts to build both of them. They are Capital Ships, without jump drives... At least wait until the industrial citadel's are out and you can dock in those to build stuff.
Kismeteer Bat Country Pandemic Legion 886	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:50:10 - [97] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Thank you for your consideration on this. My only interest in this is that I have two Rorquals that are sitting in low sec, unused. It would be nice if they were in demand and useful so I could actually sell them.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2260	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:57:50 - [98] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Arrendis wrote: They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed. There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on. So you say....
Jay Amazingness GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 45	Posted - 2016.09.20 18:59:35 - [99] - Quote holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen Jay "I'm gay" Amazingness Headshotting FCs since day one.
Winston Nimitz Amok. Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:01:49 - [100] - Quote Jay Amazingness wrote: holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen Need....... MOAR..... KILLMAILS :sun:

Larodil House Aratus Goonswarm Federation 11	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:03:16 - [101] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Waiting until November "at the earliest" would be helpful, but not having a way to move stuff from the Rorqual to the Citadel "THAT YOU DESIGNED TO BE THE REPROCESSING CITADEL" is just dumb. Saying that it doesn't have the correct undocking port, when you obviously have an undocking port for orca's and freighters and jump freighters is just lazy. Have it undock from that same port and end the argument.
Space Captain Austrene Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 53	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:04:47 - [102] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Holy **, CCP decided to fix what the bandaid solution was holding together before removing the ***** bandaid.
Siede Dunham Dunham Legacy 0	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:08:41 - [103] - Quote Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules. Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here. It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes...
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3013	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:18:27 - [104] - Quote Thank you, Fozzie & Co. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 3107	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:28:14 - [105] - Quote Siede Dunham wrote: Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules. Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here. It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes... Well, I think you can DD all of them so there's that too.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2689	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:39:01 - [106] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Thanks for listening at least that much. I'm really looking forward to hearing what kind of functionality and features we get with the rest of the structure changes. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2260	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:41:02 - [107] - Quote Siede Dunham wrote: we are talking about Null-sec alliances. Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6401	Posted - 2016.09.20 19:50:59 - [108] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Siede Dunham wrote: we are talking about Null-sec alliances. Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts. My first Rorqual was built in a C2. I self-destructed it when we moved out. I bought another, rather than built another, when we moved into a C5. I still have that Rorqual now that we moved out of w-space.
Rapscallion Jones Omnibus Solutions 92	Posted - 2016.09.20 20:29:46 - [109] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Orcas are Large hulls, not XLGÇöthey're battleship-sizedGÇöso it's highly unlikely they'll make them unable to dock where every other subcap can. Please CCP, remember this when you rebalance the Orca. It is battleship sized and as such should: 1. Fit in a freighter when packaged. 2. Fit in a capital or Rorqual SMB when assembled. This could even be the fix to no docking in an Astrahus provided the Orca's ore hold gets buffed. Arrendis wrote: That said, this really is a silly change. It may have been a bug, but it's a bug that made sense. Industrial ships aren't as survivable as combat ships. Why not give them a break? Agree with this 10,000Gäà, maybe even more.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 3107	Posted - 2016.09.20 20:43:29 - [110] - Quote Quote: >One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I would definitely love this.

Sullen Decimus Polaris Rising The Bastion 25	Posted - 2016.09.20 20:46:48 - [111] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. "For I am a gracious god"~Xerxes Twitter: Sullen_Decimus Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 108	Posted - 2016.09.20 20:49:13 - [112] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Siede Dunham wrote: we are talking about Null-sec alliances. Also some wormholers. I know more than one group that built a rorqual in their C3/C4 for mining boosts. Is that the same groups that took down & sold their towers because ... .. You Know ..... The Astrahus is the replacement for Towers. Oh well ... another Toon logged off in a space coffin
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 423	Posted - 2016.09.20 22:17:53 - [113] - Quote wow... I know a lot of people who are going to be disappointed with this. You could always keep this bug as a feature. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
FearlessLittleToaster GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 131	Posted - 2016.09.20 23:00:54 - [114] - Quote Fozzie, I have a solution that might make everyone happy. Instead of simply disallowing Rorquals from docking at medium citadels, let them do it but for a price. Make each dock/undock consume 1000 units of Synthetic Oil and 50 exotic dancers (male). Somebody has to go out there and spread the lube around. Lore wise this would totally fit with the whole using the frigate port thing too.
Penance Toralen Compass Fox 10	Posted - 2016.09.21 01:23:58 - [115] - Quote WTB Purity white ship skin for Orca and Rorqual. Given the monomania focus on miner killing, the game is already full of Captain Ahabs. Being real, would it be a correct assumption that this mechanism of ship limit would also apply to the forth coming Industrial Arrays. (I know it early days to ask this).
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3015	Posted - 2016.09.21 01:34:44 - [116] - Quote I think mining sigs should come back when the rorq goes on grid. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Nymblar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.09.21 02:02:44 - [117] - Quote So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock? :psyduck:
Cade Windstalker 553	Posted - 2016.09.21 02:32:36 - [118] - Quote Nymblar wrote: So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock? :psyduck: This is incorrect, the largest Freighter is the Providence at 2,484 meters long-axis, second place is the Charon at 2,461m long axis. The Rorqual is 2,862m long-axis, and larger than either Freighter in every other dimension as well, being about twice as wide as a Charon and 2-3 times as thick. Also the Rorqual is a true Capital with all of the restrictions there-in while Freighters are not. The Astrahus specifically says that Capitals can't dock at it.
Celly S River-Rats in space 440	Posted - 2016.09.21 02:39:45 - [119] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: We're fixing this bug at some point in the future which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. This is an absolutely horrible idea, (yes, I saw that you're delaying it, but still) That will be the death of the rorq and will likely be the deciding factor in smaller alliances and/or corps deciding NOT to bother with the medium citadel at all and for costs or building incentives, no citadel at all in some cases if it can't be used as a semi-portable base of operations for industrialists... Granted I'm referring to low and null-sec space where a small corp or alliance won't be able to afford to have 14B sitting there on the line in the form of a fortizar along with the fuel, ships and other things there, that's just too much isks and too much risk for a small group, whereas a 1.4 billion investment would be easier to come up with and easier to overcome in the case of a loss... Now, this is just my humble opinion, but that's a great way to "kill two birds with one stone", and I'm not talking about doing it in the good way. o/ Celly S. Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Strykr X X-COM Navy Fidelas Constans 20	Posted - 2016.09.21 03:39:29 - [120] - Quote I disapprove of this change. Others have already detailed at length the reasons why.

X Minx X Ops Circle-Of-Two 1	Posted - 2016.09.21 04:47:17 - [121] - Quote Why not just remove the rorqual all together. Clearly it's just a waste of resources having one, and will shortly have very little to no risk/reward incentive to use one. I'm guessing CCP regrets ever introducing it seeing as it's been messed with so much. Rather than torture all the rorqual owners over several years in the name of fantasy gameplay - just remove it - it would even fix your rorqual docking bug problem at the same time.
Resa Moon New Eden Miners Association 27	Posted - 2016.09.21 05:02:29 - [122] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Tiberizzle wrote: please learn to recognize your limits and paint within the lines fozzie, industry is most assuredly not your wheelhouse I find this comment especially amusing as this is literally a case of painting within the lines that were determined by others. :sigh: Fozzie: Of all the points made in this thread this is the one to which you reply? A deep hole is being dug for null/low. Null sov now null industry. Listen to those who actually engage in these activities on a daily basis. New Eden Mining Blog
Nymblar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.09.21 05:04:40 - [123] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Nymblar wrote: So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock? :psyduck: This is incorrect, the largest Freighter is the Providence at 2,484 meters long-axis, second place is the Charon at 2,461m long axis. The Rorqual is 2,862m long-axis, and larger than either Freighter in every other dimension as well, being about twice as wide as a Charon and 2-3 times as thick. Also the Rorqual is a true Capital with all of the restrictions there-in while Freighters are not. The Astrahus specifically says that Capitals can't dock at it. And JFs aren't true capitals because?
Nymblar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.09.21 05:05:47 - [124] - Quote please use both sides of the paper and cite your sources
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 237	Posted - 2016.09.21 05:33:26 - [125] - Quote ** miners and ** goons Great announcement fozzie, +1, CCPL wins again
Queloor Zefram Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.09.21 06:47:13 - [126] - Quote Denying a rorqual docking access to a Astrahus is the death of these ships in wh space. Not every wormhole corp has a Fortizar. As a large pos was easy to set up and a rorqual easy to build even for a smaller group in C4 and lower class wh systems I guess there are a few rorquals in lower class wh space. A fortizar citadel is neither easy to build nor easy to defend. So in effect you do **** on every small wh space corp - not that CCP cares much about people living in wh space anyway. So really please, you should seriously reconsider your decision, at least for wh space.
Wednesday Askira Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 11	Posted - 2016.09.21 10:32:51 - [127] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. Rorquals undock from the incorrect port from the Fortizars also, don't forget to disallow docking from those as well.
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1678	Posted - 2016.09.21 10:57:16 - [128] - Quote Queloor Zefram wrote: Denying a rorqual docking access to a Astrahus is the death of these ships in wh space. Not every wormhole corp has a Fortizar. As a large pos was easy to set up and a rorqual easy to build even for a smaller group in C4 and lower class wh systems I guess there are a few rorquals in lower class wh space. A fortizar citadel is neither easy to build nor easy to defend. So in effect you do **** on every small wh space corp - not that CCP cares much about people living in wh space anyway. So really please, you should seriously reconsider your decision, at least for wh space. Has anyone considered that maybe (just maybe), CCP doesn't intend Rorquals to be that easily accessible? You want to fly capital ships in your wormhole but at the same time demand that you don't have to put up a Fortizar to be able to dock. If we were talking about any other capital we'd be laughing in your face. The Rorq is the odd one out and it shouldn't get special treatment. The poor man's jump freighter argument is one of the reasons they shouldn't be allowed in Astrahuses because the ship isn't intended for that purpose at all. Just because you could doesn't mean you should, so CCP is correcting their mistake and that's all there is to it. You want to dock a capital, then dish out the cash to dock it in a structure that can actually support capitals. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Celly S River-Rats in space 440	Posted - 2016.09.21 11:34:29 - [129] - Quote additionally (if i may be so bold as to mention it) a titan can go through a stargate now and that's considered a normal part of the game, yet, as shown in this meme (linked below), there's a huge disparity between the size of the gate and what can pass through it. Titan - Stargate - meme warning, the meme contains a four letter word that might be deemed inappropriate by some.... It also accurately describes the issue/feature/ect. Maybe there could be a way factored in to allow the rorq to be used in a medium citadel, a rig that adds an industrial docking port which only lets industrial ships dock and undock in that port, or a mod, or maybe a tweak to the austrahus itself that gives it the one industrial port... kind of like a big company's loading dock around back? just a thought. o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Celly Smunt River-Rats in space 441	Posted - 2016.09.21 11:34:29 - [130] - Quote additionally (if i may be so bold as to mention it) a titan can go through a stargate now and that's considered a normal part of the game, yet, as shown in this meme (linked below), there's a huge disparity between the size of the gate and what can pass through it. Titan - Stargate - meme warning, the meme contains a four letter word that might be deemed inappropriate by some.... It also accurately describes the issue/feature/ect. Maybe there could be a way factored in to allow the rorq to be used in a medium citadel, a rig that adds an industrial docking port which only lets industrial ships dock and undock in that port, or a mod, or maybe a tweak to the austrahus itself that gives it the one industrial port... kind of like a big company's loading dock around back? just a thought. o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.

Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 342	Posted - 2016.09.21 11:54:34 - [131] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. What a disgusting band-aid. Please dont. This breaks consistency. Hangar access is a service available only when docked. Shall I be able to use other services from the outside? Like fitting? Cloning? Insurance? Do not open this box of Pandora. I think the real question people ask is: are Rorquals allowed to dock into new industrial structures? If yes then what about other capships? If no then what is the role of Rorquals anyways?
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 342	Posted - 2016.09.21 12:13:05 - [132] - Quote Queloor Zefram wrote: Denying a rorqual docking access to a Astrahus is the death of these ships in wh space. Not every wormhole corp has a Fortizar. As a large pos was easy to set up and a rorqual easy to build even for a smaller group in C4 and lower class wh systems I guess there are a few rorquals in lower class wh space. So you want a full utility of a large POS, but without fuel costs of a large POS - right? First of all, POSes are not going away anytime soon. Second, if you're a small corp - use small assets. Orca is a thing. Next, the most important. Citadels are not supposed to be swiss army knifes. Rorqual is an industrial ship, and new industrial structures are yet to be released. Will they match together is a big question, and that is a question you should be asking. Not begging to #SaveTheBug.
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 443	Posted - 2016.09.21 12:36:45 - [133] - Quote Fozzie needs to be let go from ccp he's doing nothing but causing more people to get fed up and leave the game. this is the truth and the most honest truth there is.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1138	Posted - 2016.09.21 12:51:48 - [134] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Philip Shazih wrote: The supposed to be end all be all mining ship (that will become a lot less usefull soon) cant dock in the station thats supposed to excel in refining... makes sense to you? Citadel aren't supposed to excel in refining, that is a stop gap measure until drilling platforms come about Once drilling platforms are introduced, citadel will lose their reprocessing bonus and rigs will be removed and returned to the owner to place in a drilling platform. If you aren't quite sure, re read the dev blog for the structures and look at the part where it talks rigs - it specifically didn't put those rigs in with citadel rigs, cause the aren't it is a band aid until the drilling platforms arrive Problem there is, CCP is "fixing" a so called bug, without offering an alternative. There is still no word on when drilling platforms will be released, no word on "if" Rorquals will be allowed docking rights in them. Seems the team responsible for this coming change has put the cart (remove docking rights) before the horse (releasing an alternative for refining). I have to agree with the others saying - This change should be put on hold, at least until there is an alternative. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1680	Posted - 2016.09.21 13:47:53 - [135] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: Fozzie needs to be let go from ccp he's doing nothing but causing more people to get fed up and leave the game. this is the truth and the most honest truth there is. How about you stop demanding a person is fired from their real life job because an entire team of people are changing something in a virtual game that you don't like. This kind of talk is beyond disgusting, not to mention completely ret*rded since Fozzie is for the most part just the messenger as head of a much larger team. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
CrankyApe STK Scientific Phoenix Company Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.09.21 14:19:02 - [136] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We've got a bug fix in the pipeline that I think is especially important to draw your attention to ahead of time. At the moment Rorquals can dock in Astrahus medium citadels, which is a bug. They actually even use the frigate undock port. The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. We're fixing this bug at some point in the future which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. Even though this is a fairly simple bug fix, I wanted to create a sticky thread just to make sure that there was some visibility for it ahead of the normal patch notes. I'd like to avoid people getting surprised by this fix as much as possible. We're working on the dev blog for the big Rorqual changes coming in November, and that will be ready for everyone soon. Thanks! :Edit: Updated the post to indicate that we're delaying this particular fix until after the October release. CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. This doesn't fly Fozzie. 1) They can dock now so it has nothing to do with the docking port size from a coding perspective. 2) Freighters can still dock and they are also capital ships (requires the capital ship building skill to build them). Do freighters and jump freighters use the same magic wand that gets used to whoosh all the stuff away to asset safety when a citadel is destroyed in order to magically squeeze their asses out through a frigate sized docking port? Oh wait we are already cleared the port size being BS up in the previous item. I don't mind changes and I understand that the Astrahaus wasn't meant to dock capitals but don't give us a BS reason behind it. Simply say We never meant for Rorqual's to dock in Astrhaus citadels and leave it at that man..... Personally I don't like THIS change as it makes dropping off ore from the rorqual when it becomes a mining ship in November a pain in the ass but I will find a way to work around it. -C
CrankyApe STK Scientific Phoenix Company Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.09.21 14:20:56 - [137] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: Fozzie needs to be let go from ccp he's doing nothing but causing more people to get fed up and leave the game. this is the truth and the most honest truth there is. Your an idiot. STFU. You should be let go from your real life job for demanding someone else be let go from their real life job over a freaking change in a video game. Get back in your box. -C
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 446	Posted - 2016.09.21 18:25:28 - [138] - Quote TigerXtrm wrote: Milla Goodpussy wrote: Fozzie needs to be let go from ccp he's doing nothing but causing more people to get fed up and leave the game. this is the truth and the most honest truth there is. How about you stop demanding a person is fired from their real life job because an entire team of people are changing something in a virtual game that you don't like. This kind of talk is beyond disgusting, not to mention completely ret*rded since Fozzie is for the most part just the messenger as head of a much larger team. i dont care what you say.. im sick and tired of a so-called person calling themselves a dev while they meta-game with their friends and provide them advantages just cause they all come from the same circle-jerk of geeks.. he sucks at his job and all his changes has caused an increased decline of people playing the game instead of increase.. thats a fact so be mad all you want to he wouldn't get a job at any reputable studio in the industry.
Cade Windstalker 554	Posted - 2016.09.21 18:25:47 - [139] - Quote Nymblar wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: Nymblar wrote: So is my understanding correct that you can't allow the rorqual because the ART of a astrahus doesn't have a capital docking port? Yet you're still allowing Jump Freighters, a much larger ship to dock? :psyduck: This is incorrect, the largest Freighter is the Providence at 2,484 meters long-axis, second place is the Charon at 2,461m long axis. The Rorqual is 2,862m long-axis, and larger than either Freighter in every other dimension as well, being about twice as wide as a Charon and 2-3 times as thick. Also the Rorqual is a true Capital with all of the restrictions there-in while Freighters are not. The Astrahus specifically says that Capitals can't dock at it. And JFs aren't true capitals because? They've always been able to take gates, they can enter High Sec freely, and they don't require the Capital Ships skill to fly. They also can't fit Capital Modules, while the Rorqual can.
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 446	Posted - 2016.09.21 18:40:12 - [140] - Quote Allow the Rorqual into high-sec.. that will be its only saving grace fuzzie. it makes no sense you allow fortizers into high sec are caps able to go to high sec? so why allow it? this change is just a blantant bad decision. and your explanation just doesn't stick. you'd think a dev-team would have saw this issue long before releasing citadels.. but once again you decide to roll out a patch with so called "bugs" and knew about it, was quiet about it, and waited to fix it. this is poor quality service being provided to paying customers mind you.. and you honestly think new players are going to enjoy this kind of treatment. bad call dude.. very very bad call. someone needs to step in and honestly lead that team cause you basically allowed a bug during a patch release.. which Andy promised wasn't ever going to happen again... yeah i said it.. so what!

Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3596	Posted - 2016.09.21 21:02:40 - [141] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Problem there is, CCP is "fixing" a so called bug, without offering an alternative. There is still no word on when drilling platforms will be released, no word on "if" Rorquals will be allowed docking rights in them. Seems the team responsible for this coming change has put the cart (remove docking rights) before the horse (releasing an alternative for refining). I have to agree with the others saying - This change should be put on hold, at least until there is an alternative. Uh yes there is, Drilling platforms are slatted for the November release. Which is exactly why they pushed the Rorqual changes to November to come out with them. Though I would expect it still can't dock at a M Platform, since M Platforms are likely to all be subcap only (including Freighters since they get counted as subcaps for game mechanics) But frankly if you can afford to be using Rorquals you should be able to afford a L. Otherwise use an orca and accept that your budget costs you a couple of percent.
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 447	Posted - 2016.09.21 22:39:24 - [142] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Problem there is, CCP is "fixing" a so called bug, without offering an alternative. There is still no word on when drilling platforms will be released, no word on "if" Rorquals will be allowed docking rights in them. Seems the team responsible for this coming change has put the cart (remove docking rights) before the horse (releasing an alternative for refining). I have to agree with the others saying - This change should be put on hold, at least until there is an alternative. Uh yes there is, Drilling platforms are slatted for the November release. Which is exactly why they pushed the Rorqual changes to November to come out with them. Though I would expect it still can't dock at a M Platform, since M Platforms are likely to all be subcap only (including Freighters since they get counted as subcaps for game mechanics) But frankly if you can afford to be using Rorquals you should be able to afford a L. Otherwise use an orca and accept that your budget costs you a couple of percent. you are getting your terms mixed up Engineering Complexes are scheduled for November Drilling Platforms is scheduled or Winter which equates to end of year or early next year. that structure deals with the moon mining and has nothing to do with a freaking rorqual what so ever..
Celly S River-Rats in space 440	Posted - 2016.09.21 22:50:09 - [143] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: But frankly if you can afford to be using Rorquals you should be able to afford a L. Otherwise use an orca and accept that your budget costs you a couple of percent. I do apologize my friend, but your statement is flawed badly. med citadel 1.4b rorqual 1.2 to 2.0-ish billion That's nothing compared to the fortizar's cost. Fortizar 14.489 B median cost o/ Celly S. Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Celly Smunt River-Rats in space 441	Posted - 2016.09.21 22:50:09 - [144] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: But frankly if you can afford to be using Rorquals you should be able to afford a L. Otherwise use an orca and accept that your budget costs you a couple of percent. I do apologize my friend, but your statement is flawed badly. med citadel 1.4b rorqual 1.2 to 2.0-ish billion That's nothing compared to the fortizar's cost. Fortizar 14.489 B median cost o/ Celly S. Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Vailen Sere 420 Enterprises. Tactical Supremacy 19	Posted - 2016.09.22 00:30:19 - [145] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Freighter and JF docking access remains unchanged, they have always been intended to be dockable in Astrahus citadels. How does this tie into the future industrial focused structures which have not been released yet? Should freighters and JHF's not be allowed to dock in those as well as dreads fax's , etc? which would make it totally geared towards use with mining marges, exhumuers and industrial command ships / capitol command ships.
Vailen Sere 420 Enterprises. Tactical Supremacy 19	Posted - 2016.09.22 00:35:36 - [146] - Quote Querns wrote: Considering the rorqual's primary ability to haul ore, not to mention its (assumed) direct mining role coming with the rebalance, denying the rorqual the ability to dock in an Astrahus is, frankly, absurd. Nope.. you saw the post.. ccp says its primary ability is the same as fax's and dread's.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 303	Posted - 2016.09.22 16:40:31 - [147] - Quote Any patch notes for the rorqual??
Celly S River-Rats in space 441	Posted - 2016.09.22 22:39:44 - [148] - Quote Siede Dunham wrote: Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules. I wholeheartedly disagree with that, if it takes capital parts and construction skills to build to build, namely: Time per run17D 08:40:00 1 x Orca Capital Ship Construction Level I Mechanics Level V Advanced Industry Level V Industry Level III Industry Level V 4 x Capital Sensor Cluster 9 x Capital Capacitor Battery 38 x Capital Cargo Bay 7 x Capital Computer System 16 x Capital Construction Parts 7 x Capital Ship Maintenance Bay 4 x Capital Corporate Hangar Bay Then it is in fact a capital ship, whether it has a JD or not, and whether it can go into high sec or not, is irrelevant, same goes for the F and JF. just saying... :) Siede Dunham wrote: Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes that's right, not the same rules apply here. How so? is it not a capital ship as well?, maybe it can't go into high sec, but then again it still takes the same type stuff and same type skills to build. You might notice the emphasis on the phrase "can't go into" because that is the key, there are in fact at least 1, if not more capital vessels that cannot "go into" high sec from low or null that are already in high sec currently, should they leave high sec, they would not be able to return, because the restriction is not the "use" of high sec gates, it's the destination of the ship using the gate, "those" capitals cannot travel through the gate "if their destination is another high sec system", but they are able to use the gate in the same way that any other ship in the game can aside from that. but that's for a different discussions... Siede Dunham wrote: It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes... In this part, I agree somewhat, however there are places where some folks live in null that are in fact unable to put down a fortizar because the sov holders won't allow it, so while there is some validity in your statement, it's not a blanket "be all, end all" answer to the problem that those folks might face o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Queloor Zefram Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 4	Posted - 2016.09.25 04:52:08 - [149] - Quote Cost of building a rorqual in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 2 bil Cost for a large pos setup in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 1 bil Cost of a fortizar: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 12 bil So one could have built a rorqual in a wormhole even as a smaller wormhole group without problems and operate it there with ease. Once pos towers are gone and once a rorqual cannot dock in an Astrahus anymore all those groups will be buggered by CCP's change of game mechanics because of the fairly different amounts of costs comparing a fortizar with a large pos.
First-of-Four PH0ENIX COMPANY Phoenix Company Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.09.26 22:22:31 - [150] - Quote CCP, November's Rorqual changes are likely to be the biggest game change for industrial players in years. With October days away, perhaps you should follow up on August's dev blog with additional details on how the Rorqual will work. As we've seen here, you're not quite aligned with your industrial player base; more time to consume our feedback will make life easier for everyone.

Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2976	Posted - 2016.09.27 16:34:16 - [151] - Quote Time to dock Rorquals and hoard them inside Astrahus? FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Keyran Tyler Bionesis Technologies 7	Posted - 2016.09.29 15:32:32 - [152] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. #SaveTheWhales Rorqual owner speaking. I don't understand why you are putting the Rorqual in the same category than combat capital. What is "normal sized" for you ? Mass ? Volume ? Long Axis ? Capital Jump Drive ? Going to high sec ability ? - If you use the mass (kg), Rorqual is clearly the bigger of the non combat ships. But who care of mass in a space station with antigravity in ship hangar ? - If you use the volume (m-¦), all the freighters are bigger. - If you use long axis (M), Bowhead is longuer. - If you use Capital Jump Drive inside of the ship, all JF and Blops have few of them. - If you use the Going to high sec ability, it is incoherent because Astrahus could be anchored in LS and 0.0. So, you should leave the Rorqual dock in Astrahus ... and authorize it to go in High Sec. It is the only way to make it really attractive. This interdiction dating from the creation of the ship was logicl when capital could not use stargates. This is no longer the case. Empires prohibiting access to combat capital is logic, but it is not for Rorqual because it is an industrial ship. Your change planned for November have not convinced me to get out more often than twice a year with that ship.
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1729	Posted - 2016.10.05 20:33:40 - [153] - Quote Queloor Zefram wrote: Cost of building a rorqual in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 2 bil Cost for a large pos setup in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 1 bil Cost of a fortizar: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 12 bil So one could have built a rorqual in a wormhole even as a smaller wormhole group without problems and operate it there with ease. Once pos towers are gone and once a rorqual cannot dock in an Astrahus anymore all those groups will be buggered by CCP's change of game mechanics because of the fairly different amounts of costs comparing a fortizar with a large pos. Or just use one of the other 5 new structures that are going to be added to the game and will be significantly cheaper than a Fortizar. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
ShadowFirestar The Walking Deads V. O. I. D. 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 08:46:36 - [154] - Quote Why did you delay till November when the November patch does nothing to change or help this problem?
ShadowFirestar The Walking Deads V. O. I. D. 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 08:50:33 - [155] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We've got a bug fix in the pipeline that I think is especially important to draw your attention to ahead of time. At the moment Rorquals can dock in Astrahus medium citadels, which is a bug. They actually even use the frigate undock port. The intended design is that Rorquals should have the same docking access as normal sized capital ships like the carrier, dread and force aux classes. We're fixing this bug at some point in the future which means that Rorquals will no longer be able to dock in Astrahus citadels. Even though this is a fairly simple bug fix, I wanted to create a sticky thread just to make sure that there was some visibility for it ahead of the normal patch notes. I'd like to avoid people getting surprised by this fix as much as possible. We're working on the dev blog for the big Rorqual changes coming in November, and that will be ready for everyone soon. Thanks! :Edit: Updated the post to indicate that we're delaying this particular fix until after the October release. CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap. In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates. Where are these changes? Nothing in either of the indy blogs reflect this. One thing that be nice at least for me. If some auto dump feature that you can toggle on and off that when your in range of a citadel it auto dumps the ore in your hold into the citadel.
Aurra Jol Upwell Research and Manufacturing Warped Intentions 14	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:46:51 - [156] - Quote So, capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreads, Rorqual) can dock in the Large citadel (Fortizar), but for the new Engineering Complexes are restricted and can only dock in the X-Large variant. Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes?
Princess Adhara University of Caille Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:28:35 - [157] - Quote Aurra Jol wrote: Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes? From the dev blog: Quote: These tighter docking restrictions are what allowed us to keep the price of Large and XL Engineering Complexes so much lower than their Citadel counterparts without causing major balance issues
Aurra Jol Upwell Research and Manufacturing Warped Intentions 14	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:58:29 - [158] - Quote Princess Adhara wrote: Aurra Jol wrote: Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes? From the dev blog: Quote: These tighter docking restrictions are what allowed us to keep the price of Large and XL Engineering Complexes so much lower than their Citadel counterparts without causing major balance issues Fair enough, but all three sizes, including the medium are significantly lower than their citadel counterparts. It is reasonable to restrict carriers, dreads, and FAX's. However the rorqual is an industrial ship and can have a need to dock at a large.
Heinrich Lenz BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 20:45:58 - [159] - Quote Aurra Jol wrote: Princess Adhara wrote: Aurra Jol wrote: Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes? From the dev blog: Quote: These tighter docking restrictions are what allowed us to keep the price of Large and XL Engineering Complexes so much lower than their Citadel counterparts without causing major balance issues Fair enough, but all three sizes, including the medium are significantly lower than their citadel counterparts. It is reasonable to restrict carriers, dreads, and FAX's. However the rorqual is an industrial ship and can have a need to dock at a large. I think that this will be going to be a big problem when the POS structures meet their end. Cuz now you can hide your Rorqual capital industrial ship in any POS but you can't dock in MEDIUm and LARGE Engineering stations. The result is that we need to buy Fortizar to dock our Rorquals or X-large Eng station(50bil). I am missing the point really.By the way the problem is the same with the Orca industrial ship! Please CCP think on this more seriously, the main industrial capital ships have to allowed to dock at least on the Large Engineering station.
Aurra Jol Upwell Research and Manufacturing Warped Intentions 14	Posted - 2016.10.11 20:50:15 - [160] - Quote Heinrich Lenz wrote: Aurra Jol wrote: Princess Adhara wrote: Aurra Jol wrote: Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes? From the dev blog: Quote: These tighter docking restrictions are what allowed us to keep the price of Large and XL Engineering Complexes so much lower than their Citadel counterparts without causing major balance issues Fair enough, but all three sizes, including the medium are significantly lower than their citadel counterparts. It is reasonable to restrict carriers, dreads, and FAX's. However the rorqual is an industrial ship and can have a need to dock at a large. I think that this will be going to be a big problem when the POS structures meet their end. Cuz now you can hide your Rorqual capital industrial ship in any POS but you can't dock in MEDIUm and LARGE Engineering stations. The result is that we need to buy Fortizar to dock our Rorquals or X-large Eng station(50bil). I am missing the point really.By the way the problem is the same with the Orca industrial ship! Please CCP think on this more seriously, the main industrial capital ships have to allowed to dock at least on the Large Engineering station. Exactly! At this point, not critical as POS still exist in the game and you can store the ship in an POS module. Once POS are removed, you are forced into having an XL EC or M/L Citadel.

Jalxan Spoopy Newbies Brave Collective 42	Posted - 2016.10.12 16:14:25 - [161] - Quote This is something I discovered through this feedback thread, which regards the Rorqual and docking in Astrahus stations. I will be posting this in both this and the Rorqual revamp threads, as both are mutually exclusive, and should be read. I strongly recommend, that the Rorqual be allowed to dock in the Astrahus. In addition, Rorquals, as they are not combat vessels, should be permitted to mine in High Sec space. Because the Rorqual is going through a rework, it is a perfect time to size the Rorqual to the approximate dimension of a Freighter, and since Freighters count as capital ships, and since they can dock in the Astrahus station, the Rorqual should as well. This is especially important, as Astrahus stations are known to be mining/refining stations, and it would severely hamper the Rorqual if it can't dock in a station that is designed to cater to it! Thus, I'd like to see the Rorqual to be Freighter-sized, and capable of docking in the Astrahus, and undocking via its largest docking ports. Beyond that, I believe the new Rorqual is perfect.
Trevize Demerzel 16	Posted - 2016.11.04 14:29:08 - [162] - Quote Here's a thought... As a "fix" for this "bug"... Convert every Astrohaus into a Fortizar that has a Rorqual docked in it. Free of charge. -
Leena Turos The Black Crow Bandits Sarcos Federation 1	Posted - 2016.11.10 19:57:18 - [163] - Quote Just a thought. Should there not be consistency across all the structures whatever ship can dock at a small, docks at small industrial complex, same with medium, L and XL. Makes things really easy to understand for the alphas that will be coming and getting into alliances that then want to sub and move into bigger ships. And for the smaller corps that are in low or null sec they may not be able to safely house the Rorqual that already has a home at the Astrahus. If the only problem of the Astrahus is the fact that rorquals are undocking at the frigate undock. Why dont you make it so it undocks at the same undock as a freighter. Makes sense to me.
Milla Goodpussy Federal Navy Academy 465	Posted - 2016.11.11 04:28:40 - [164] - Quote can someone please tell me, what was the final decision on this thread? i mean he seemingly is avoiding putting out a detailed dev blog of these changes and more recent changes he posted on 11/8...so what is the final verdict of this thread Can the Rorqual dock at a freaking medium or not? its simple, its quick and can be answered with no further debate. ccp you expect new folks to sign up for this game, yet you continue to keep some distorted logic that its "fun" searching for facts about what you can do and can not do in a sandbox game..please catch up with reality and resolve this matter.
Zappity Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 3054	Posted - 2016.11.11 20:01:18 - [165] - Quote Milla Goodpussy wrote: can someone please tell me, what was the final decision on this thread? i mean he seemingly is avoiding putting out a detailed dev blog of these changes and more recent changes he posted on 11/8...so what is the final verdict of this thread Can the Rorqual dock at a freaking medium or not? its simple, its quick and can be answered with no further debate. ccp you expect new folks to sign up for this game, yet you continue to keep some distorted logic that its "fun" searching for facts about what you can do and can not do in a sandbox game..please catch up with reality and resolve this matter. Yes today, no on Tuesday. It will be ok once we have the ability to drop cargo into a structure. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 314	Posted - 2016.11.11 22:46:09 - [166] - Quote the whole reason for this change is to stop people droping an astraus in every belt and just farming the belts from the safety of dock range
Rholen Blunts Wetardz Wit Weaponz Stoic Bastards 0	Posted - 2017.01.26 17:05:33 - [167] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks. We've got a bug fix in the pipeline that I think is especially important to draw your attention to ahead of time. This discussion spurred some comments about rigs on existing citadels that would be removed at the release of ECs, did that ever go anywhere?, there's mention of it further down in this thread, and I recall seeing or hearing about it somewhere else. Can you clarify whether this is or isn't going to be done?, Thanks in advance Fozzie R.B.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3587	Posted - 2017.01.27 05:09:11 - [168] - Quote Queloor Zefram wrote: Cost of building a rorqual in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 2 bil Cost for a large pos setup in a wormhole: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 1 bil Cost of a fortizar: Let us assume in the order of magnitude of 12 bil So one could have built a rorqual in a wormhole even as a smaller wormhole group without problems and operate it there with ease. Once pos towers are gone and once a rorqual cannot dock in an Astrahus anymore all those groups will be buggered by CCP's change of game mechanics because of the fairly different amounts of costs comparing a fortizar with a large pos. if you are not making 12b in a wh as a corp you are WHing wrong even when living in a C1 we could make 12b in under a month with as little as 6 pilots BLOPS Hauler
The Dauphin Dauphin Enterprises Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.04.02 14:51:51 - [169] - Quote Nerfing is not fixing. Fixing means making them undock properly.ls soon. One more fix on the Rorqual, and I am going to starting buying Rorqual cheap and reprocessing them into raw materials.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 3053	Posted - 2017.04.02 16:59:48 - [170] - Quote Keyran Tyler wrote: I don't understand why you are putting the Rorqual in the same category than combat capital. Aurra Jol wrote: So, capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreads, Rorqual) can dock in the Large citadel (Fortizar), but for the new Engineering Complexes are restricted and can only dock in the X-Large variant. Is there a reason they can dock in a large for standard citadels, but cannot in the engineering complexes? The Rorqual is an industrial force auxiliary, a combat capital. Of course it should be grouped with other combat capitals! Why is this a question? Freighters of all kinds are in the same size class but are not combat capable, that is why they are allowed into highsec and can dock where other capital ships cannot dock. You need to see it this way: The Rorqual is not being blocked from docking; rather freighters are receiving a free pass for docking where they reasonably should not be able to. You want to dock a Rorqual at your large complex? Why not use an Orca instead? FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."



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