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Tux mind having a look ? (Blockade runner issue)

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ManniXXX Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.19 12:19:00 - [271] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 19/05/2007 11:39:01 Yes. Those attributes being a) cargo size and b) agility. The latter being almost completely countered by the higher sig. I would want to see a number crunch with some real figures before commenting on this. And i think you meant to say lower sig? Interesting anyway. Quote: Which can lock you fast enough and which are in range of you, which limits the area considerably. Nevermind that with allign->mwd->cloak->mwd cycle->uncloak->warp I do not care if they have 20 1sec lock ships with 30k scrams, they won't catch me. And even without that I would trade a 1% advantage in them locking me before warping for 2 WCS at any time of a day without even blinking. They amount of camps where 2 WCS will save me is >>>> the amount of camps where having a 1% advantage in getting into warp before getting locked will save me. Cloaking cancels any modules and any cycle time they have remaining now, you do carry some speed through as you slow down but its nowhere near enough to be significant. By your judgement then, it might be better to fit some more WCS rather than agility mods if thats the way you see things. Depending on what kind of camp your up against would determine your success here. But if there are more than 10 ships waiting for me as I jump in, I know that I'll be wanting any increase in time to warp I can get. WCS also suck these days. Bottom line, until we get a response from a dev to clarify the blockade runner's intended role and more importantly how it will fulfill that role, this thread can't move forward. If they feel the BR is fine as it is then so be it, however I think everyone agrees that they are not as effective as they used to be. The question is, are they still effective enough and that is why I'm so eager for a response.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.19 13:16:00 - [272] Originally by: ManniXXX I would want to see a number crunch with some real figures before commenting on this. And i think you meant to say lower sig? Interesting anyway. Number crunch - did that already in #272, read my post more carefully. All the info you need to verfiy that is there. And faster time-to-warp of t1 indies is countered by higher sig = faster time-to-get-locked. Quote: Cloaking cancels any modules and any cycle time they have remaining now It doesn't, neither on TQ nor sisi, just tested it on both servers. In either case it's behaving just like it always did, MWD keeps working for it's remaining cycle time just fine after cloaking. Quote: By your judgement then, it might be better to fit some more WCS rather than agility mods if thats the way you see things. No, I am saying a balance is important. An indy with all agility is relatively worthless because it's only a 1 trick pony. The same applies for one with all WCS. BR provide this balance. Quote: Depending on what kind of camp your up against would determine your success here. But if there are more than 10 ships waiting for me as I jump in, I know that I'll be wanting any increase in time to warp I can get. And if you have your lone sensorboosted inty - which are not really less common than 10 man blobs - you want WCS. Have a very minor disadvantage vs one camp for an HUGE advantage vs another camp seems rather worth it from my point of view. Quote: WCS also suck these days. To the contrary, they are now way more effective than before. For non-combat ships. They suck now for combat ships, which means that the number of stab-professionals is a lot lower now. As direct result of that people do not use 3 warp scram stilettos or similar setups that often now since vs most targets they simply do not need them anymore. Quote: however I think everyone agrees that they are not as effective as they used to be. They are less effective than in rev 1.0-1.3. However they are MORE effective than in RMR. A good deal more effective actually. Higher agility due to rigs. The stackingnerf made the agility advantage of t1 indies far less pronounced. The WCS nerf made people less likely to fit to counter stabs since they are less common now.
Chi Quan Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.19 13:46:00 - [273] still no dev notice it seems, i pitty you. i started with transport ships recently, but did not train it beyond 1, have not bought a ship yet and recieved the skillbook as a gift, so no real losses. you have my respect for the usefullnes and maturity in this thread. (+ bumpage)
Mynez Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.21 23:41:00 - [274] So... BR with 2 istabs OR DST with 2 WCS, 2 istabs, 1 nanofiber?
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.22 19:56:00 - [275] bump un-nerf blockade runners pls, and make the transport skill do something more useful (a tanking bonus isn't exactly a bright idea on BR.. maaaaybe on DST but not on BR) and more PG or more lowslots on crane, its ridiculous having to fit a PG module just to be able to add a shield booster (they get bonus from transport skill remember ? )together with mwd, thus leaving only one measly lowslot free.. dumb dumb dumb
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.24 02:21:00 - [276] up we go someone will notice us eventually
Fenren	Posted - 2007.05.24 06:40:00 - [277] they wont answer... probably because they dont know what to do. but keep on the bumping. sooner or later (probably later) the devs will need to give it some attention
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.24 07:41:00 - [278] At least DSTs are good for high-sec autopiloting with valuable cargo (not a good target for opportunity suicide ganking). But the Blockade Runner is pointless for that __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
PennySmith	Posted - 2007.05.25 05:52:00 - [279] Bump
ManniXXX Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:26:00 - [280] Aramendal, I will try to check the cloaking/cycle issue for myself soon, you have intruigued me as I'm sure when I tried this the cycle ended when you activated the cloak. The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct? Also, I can't comment as to how BR's compare now to RMR as I did not own one back then. I would appreciate some input from people who did. Good stuff, Having these forums to debate on really adds something to the game for me. Keep it coming

Augeas	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:47:00 - [281] Edited by: Augeas on 25/05/2007 13:46:40 Quote: The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did...
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:37:00 - [282] Originally by: Augeas Edited by: Augeas on 25/05/2007 13:46:40 Quote: The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did... lol there goes the MWD argument out the window.. in your face (to whoever advocated BRs as being ok due to possibility to fit MWD ... PWNTTTTT ) becomes obvious they made some stealth nerfs but didnt even realise they would utterly gimp BR's who relied on some disparate elements (like un-nerfed nanos, MWD in cloak and a little more natural agility it seems) to be able to barely survive a small gatecamp
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:03:00 - [283] And another day goes by .. just seen a BR around so they are not extinct (yet)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:45:00 - [284] Edited by: Aramendel on 26/05/2007 18:50:52 Originally by: Augeas This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did... And let me guess - January was the first time you ever tested it? You do not understand the mechanic. OF COURCE the cloak lowers your speed. Noone said otherwise. However this does not matter here. The point is that your speed with MWD & cloak active ~= your speed with MWD & cloak inactive. In short, the cloak speed reduction and the MWD speed boost efficiently cancel each other out. This means you can activate MWD & cloak and accelerate & allign without being targetable and once the MWD cycle finishes disable cloak and you'll have > 80% speed, are fully alligned and therefore able to instawarp right after decloaking. And I just tested this AGAIN just to make sure and it still works perfectly fine on test. Originally by: ManniXXX The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct? Thw MWD speed boost and cloak speed reduction efficiently cancel each other out, but thats the whole point here as described above. And I am talking about the improved cloak, the thing between cov ops and prototype.
Harlequ1n	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:57:00 - [285] Bumpage, cos I want to fly my Crane again...
Gunzo San	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:06:00 - [286] Edited by: Gunzo San on 29/05/2007 08:09:58 Edited by: Gunzo San on 29/05/2007 08:08:40 BUMP! Yup, was pretty exciting busting camps in 0.0.The exhiliration factor alone made BR worth training. Now its more than likely certain death. Gunz
Ulii	Posted - 2007.05.30 11:50:00 - [287] bump? ah, ok, why not
ManniXXX Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.31 17:08:00 - [288] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 26/05/2007 18:50:52 Originally by: Augeas This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did... And let me guess - January was the first time you ever tested it? You do not understand the mechanic. OF COURCE the cloak lowers your speed. Noone said otherwise. However this does not matter here. The point is that your speed with MWD & cloak active ~= your speed with MWD & cloak inactive. In short, the cloak speed reduction and the MWD speed boost efficiently cancel each other out. This means you can activate MWD & cloak and accelerate & allign without being targetable and once the MWD cycle finishes disable cloak and you'll have > 80% speed, are fully alligned and therefore able to instawarp right after decloaking. And I just tested this AGAIN just to make sure and it still works perfectly fine on test. Originally by: ManniXXX The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct? Thw MWD speed boost and cloak speed reduction efficiently cancel each other out, but thats the whole point here as described above. And I am talking about the improved cloak, the thing between cov ops and prototype. The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.31 22:34:00 - [289] Originally by: ManniXXX The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD. Wrong. Because without the MWD you will be at 25% speed, meaning you have to accellerate to 80% first. With the MWD you will be already at full speed after uncloaking, meaing you do not have to accellerate, meaning you can warp instantly. That is a major difference. Have you even bothered to test it? Its rather obvious. If you have to accellerate first an instalock ship will get you.
ManniXXX Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.01 00:38:00 - [290] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: ManniXXX The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD. Wrong. Because without the MWD you will be at 25% speed, meaning you have to accellerate to 80% first. With the MWD you will be already at full speed after uncloaking, meaing you do not have to accellerate, meaning you can warp instantly. That is a major difference. Have you even bothered to test it? Its rather obvious. If you have to accellerate first an instalock ship will get you. You won't be anywhere near full speed after uncloaking, I thought this is what we has established? The MWD becomes useless as soon as you activate the cloak. You have a little bit of slow down time from the initial speed boost of the MWD but its nowhere near enough time to align, uncloak and warp again. And this is all irrelevant in a bubble anyway (where the MWD REALLY would be useful if it worked for one cycle after cloaking :P)

Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.01 01:12:00 - [291] I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.01 02:16:00 - [292] Edited by: Aramendel on 01/06/2007 02:28:09 Originally by: ManniXXX You won't be anywhere near full speed after uncloaking, I thought this is what we has established? No. In fact I have said it now like 3-4 times in a row that you are at full speed after decloaking. A good deal over full speed actually. Quote: The MWD becomes useless as soon as you activate the cloak. You have a little bit of slow down time from the initial speed boost of the MWD but its nowhere near enough time to align, uncloak and warp again. *Wrong!* For the Xth time. Maybe a step-by-step to get finally through to you. Since you quite obviously are unwilling or unable to test it yourself (and if it is the latter, why are you even commenting about a ship which you have never ever flown yourself?). The prorator of my alt has a top speed of 257.5 m/s. This means it has to acellerate to 206 m/s to be able to warp. When I use the MWD it has a top speed of 1799 m/s. When I activate his improved cloak this is reduced to 25% of this which is 449.75 m/s. This will be achieved easily in the MWD cycle while cloaking. As soon as the MWD deactivates you only have to uncloak before your speed falls below 206 m/s (this gives you a 5 second window) and hit warp. You need to use an Improved cloak for this to work efficiently, though, and NOT the basic prototype cloak, but I mentioned this already. Seriously. This is a technique which I myself used already X times, which works 100% at all times and which is extremly easy to do yourself. Do I really need to FRAPS it to make you finally admit that you are wrong here? Quote: And this is all irrelevant in a bubble anyway (where the MWD REALLY would be useful if it worked for one cycle after cloaking :P) Obviously. And it's not like I said already x times, too, that in such a situation you can MWD (without cloak) back to the gate and jump again. In which case the high base speed, resistances and base hitpoints of the BR help. Those "little details" which are "not important", you know? Originally by: Sen Goku I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble. I never, ever, not once said it is a way to get safely out of bubbles. It is a way to achieve instawarp without being lockable. For bubbles, as said above, the best way to to head back with the MWD without cloaking to the gate where you came from. Also...prototype cloak...maybe use an improved cloak? It fits just as well and gives you as "tiny" detail 250% the speed as a protype cloak?
Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.01 06:36:00 - [293] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Sen Goku I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble. I never, ever, not once said it is a way to get safely out of bubbles. It is a way to achieve instawarp without being lockable. For bubbles, as said above, the best way to to head back with the MWD without cloaking to the gate where you came from. Also...prototype cloak...maybe use an improved cloak? It fits just as well and gives you as "tiny" detail 250% the speed as a protype cloak? Yeah you're right there, my mistake. I haven't tried with an improved. I have heard that it is/was possible to clear a bubble on the inertia using this method though (obviously not with a proto ).
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.03 18:34:00 - [294] up we go main issue here is not mwd anyway, the mwd thing is a workaround developed by players blockade runners are TOO SLOW
PennySmith	Posted - 2007.06.04 06:45:00 - [295] Bump because as the poster above said The Devs should respond to this.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2007.06.04 12:26:00 - [296] i agree its easier to fly a deepspacetransport than a blockade runner in most situations. But my main problem is with the ship bonus for tanking.... Its for active tanking on a indy... it would really help if it was a bit related to its role. Something to do with agilaty or speed or cargo space or well something if it has to tanking give it a passive tanking boost.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.04 12:59:00 - [297] Originally by: NIkis And another day goes by .. just seen a BR around so they are not extinct (yet) Oh, my alt still has her Viator. It's been quite a useful mission/ratting support ship. I wouldn't use it for actual lockade running though. In fact I mainly use it because I haven't lost it yet. I wouldn't bother replacing it when an Ity5 with 2 istabs, 2 WCS and an Overdrive works just as well at about 5% of the price.
Ling Xiao Prism Project Technologies	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:13:00 - [298] Change the ship bonus to an agility bonus or mass reduction. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing?
Fenren	Posted - 2007.06.05 11:16:00 - [299] why, o why cant a dev at least say hi in here?
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:24:00 - [300] they must be busy nerfing stuff bumporz



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