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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ohdows
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Posted - 2007.04.25 10:42:00 -
[211]
ok, that explains a thing or two.
i've always wondered why the sip turns so fast at gates...(feels kinda stupid, not thinking it might be as mentioned) ------- sorry for any misspelling or type errors (actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.25 13:35:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: ManniXXX
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
1.61 comes from comes from this.
Acceleration formula: V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^-(t / (A*M))) Where A = Inertia Modifier and M = Mass/1.000.000 Breaking out "t" get you ->
t = -ln(1-(V/Vmax))*A*M The ship warp at 80% of top speed, that gives us V/Vmax = 0.8 ->
T = -ln(0.2)*A*M and then we have -ln(0.2) = 1.61 so the final formula becomes -> T = 1.61*A*M
Nicely done, it's always good to see some hard maths behind the numbers.
As for the align time isn't it basically because your ship is stopped? The faster your ship is moving the slower it turns but from 0ms it will turn pretty much on the spot.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.25 15:01:00 -
[213]
Originally by: ManniXXX
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: ManniXXX
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
1.61 comes from comes from this.
Acceleration formula: V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^-(t / (A*M))) Where A = Inertia Modifier and M = Mass/1.000.000 Breaking out "t" get you ->
t = -ln(1-(V/Vmax))*A*M The ship warp at 80% of top speed, that gives us V/Vmax = 0.8 ->
T = -ln(0.2)*A*M and then we have -ln(0.2) = 1.61 so the final formula becomes -> T = 1.61*A*M
Nicely done, it's always good to see some hard maths behind the numbers.
As for the align time isn't it basically because your ship is stopped? The faster your ship is moving the slower it turns but from 0ms it will turn pretty much on the spot.
I'd noticed that any time you enter a system, your ship is always pointing the 'same' direction. I don't know if it's ever been officialy confirmed, but I've seen a measure of circumstantial evidence that suggests that you have no vector on first arrival in system. Your 'default direction' is graphical. (Much like you don't have an elevation as far as I can tell).
This is why the 'webbing a freighter' trick works - as soon as you start 'moving' you're going the right way, and so when a web drops your 'max' velocity, you immediately hit 75% on the right vector, and can warp immediately.
But it's certainly interesting to see an time to warp formula. I'd be interested still in figuring out rate of turn though, just for the occasions when youre 'not jumping in.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.25 21:27:00 -
[214]
Yeah i see where ur coming from but if your having to turn around at a camp then your using the ship wrong. Point in case would be useful on a general principle for all ships however.
Speaking of which, using a cloak is a damn good way to drop your time to warp beautifully as long as you align yourself whilst cloaked. Not entirely sure about the mechanics but i think it could be as simple as the fact you're travelling at 20% or whatever it is of your top speed and are therefore closer to your 80% warp speed as you decloak. I've been liking it anyway.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.27 16:04:00 -
[215]
Alright I've been number crunching and, for a prowler at least, Mass rigs with agilty modules seems the best combination. Take into account that I have evasive manoevering + spaceship command at L4. But still on a general basis this still makes sense, The mass rigs give -15% where as the nanofiber II gives 12.5% and local hull only 10%. Visa versa for inertia though, with rigs giving only 15% and local hulls 20%. The maths doesn't even need to be done to see which is the best combination. We're still only talking .3 of a second difference. The best setup I found was 2 mass rigs and 2 i-stabs (beta hull) for a Time to warp of 5.715 secs. Not exactly brilliant. :/
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:35:00 -
[216]
BUMPY BUMP Keep up the good work guys
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trader ming
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Posted - 2007.04.29 00:14:00 -
[217]
i am looking into what transport to train for and this thread has me asking a few questions (I am returning to the game so still figuring everything out)
no one uses WCS? with 3 of those on a viator coupled with proper agility improving rigs and a MWD and i think you could make it past most gate camps? The chances of enough interceptors to get close enough to stop you from warping seem slim.
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kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:34:00 -
[218]
Originally by: kill0rbunny My suggestion to making blockade runners viable again is giving it the ability to fit a covert ops cloaking device. The drone region people would totally appreciate such a feature i believe.
Hmm still appreciating this.
Or maybe the same bonus stealth bombers get with cloaked velocity? hmmmmmm nice.
Pew Pew!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:27:00 -
[219]
Originally by: trader ming i am looking into what transport to train for and this thread has me asking a few questions (I am returning to the game so still figuring everything out)
no one uses WCS? with 3 of those on a viator coupled with proper agility improving rigs and a MWD and i think you could make it past most gate camps? The chances of enough interceptors to get close enough to stop you from warping seem slim.
You have 2 WCS built in. That would take you to 5 points, which is a nice number. However you're then slow, and essentially relying on residual hitpoints, and 'having enough stabs' to get away. Which a DST does better, since they have more lowslots, and enough powergrid to MWD + tank back to a gate if necessary.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:31:00 -
[220]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: kill0rbunny My suggestion to making blockade runners viable again is giving it the ability to fit a covert ops cloaking device. The drone region people would totally appreciate such a feature i believe.
Hmm still appreciating this.
Or maybe the same bonus stealth bombers get with cloaked velocity? hmmmmmm nice.
Someone commented earlier that covert ops cloaking would be overpowering. I think they may be right.
I think it depends somewhat on the 'objective' role wise, for the blockade runner.
Fast: needs more agility, lower mass, and more grid to MWD Unstoppable: More stabs, maybe bubble busting. Or perhaps even a jumpdrive (I'd love this :)) Stealthy: Cloaking bonuses, be it covops style 'warp whilst cloaked' or stealth bomber style 'can move quickly whilst cloaked'.
Actually, I rather like the idea of the stealth bomber aspect - it's a rather nice boost to your ability to get away from a camp, but ... well obviously you have to decloak to 'leg it'. But alongside being able to fit a MWD on a Crane, in a sensible fashion of course :)
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.01 08:49:00 -
[221]
Edited by: NIkis on 01/05/2007 08:46:00
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Someone commented earlier that covert ops cloaking would be overpowering. I think they may be right.
The people using pilgrim for purpose of blockade running makes this seem a not so overpowering feature. I think 'they' (your 'they') may be wrong. But still there are a lot of different approaches to solving the current blockade runner dilemma. And to the guy who advocated cramming the lows with WCS, you will move like a fat whale if you do that, and probably get ganked anyway (a lot of ships can target a MWDing industrial, not only intys). If you gamble on 'chance' you get screwed like the ECM did. Way to go CCP
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.01 09:07:00 -
[222]
Thats ignoring quite a few issues.
Even if you fill all the pilgrims lows with cargo expenders it still will only have around 1/3rd of a blockade runners total cargo. And will be slower and less agile than the blockade runner. And won't have the 2 warp core strength bonus.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.01 10:03:00 -
[223]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 01/05/2007 10:00:49
Originally by: Aramendel Thats ignoring quite a few issues.
Even if you fill all the pilgrims lows with cargo expenders it still will only have around 1/3rd of a blockade runners total cargo. And will be slower and less agile than the blockade runner. And won't have the 2 warp core strength bonus.
Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
I think you're in part correct though - 2 pts of built in stabs _and_ a covert cloak would be pretty horrific IMO. I'm not sure how they compare to the pilgrim mass and agility wise though... actually scratch that, 5 expanders are going to kill the handling of pretty much any ship :)
How would 'as are, but with stealth bomber cloaked velocity bonus' square up? So, basically giving you a couple of points, and the ability to move clear of a gatecamp in a sensible amount of time, if they don't spot you decloaking.
But still with the MWD needed on the Crane :)
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2007.05.01 12:45:00 -
[224]
This needs to be addressed, ages to train and an expensive skill book. The Transport Ships skill serves no purpose. The Crane used to be a hoot to fly, now mine gathers dust in the hanger whilst I use a cheap disposable Badger...
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:12:00 -
[225]
*bump*
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:24:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Aramendel on 03/05/2007 07:20:08
Originally by: James Lyrus Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
A pilgrim with that setup won't do the nossy-drone-death either.
The point is that such a pilgrim hauler setup is not really practical. Any halfway decent gatecamp *will* decloak you because you are slow as hell. I would rather make 6 trips with a cov ops than one with a pilgrim fitted that way.
Personally I would rather make transport ships give them a useful bonus to agility & speed than giving them any cloaking bonus. It doesn't really fit to blockade runners.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.03 08:33:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 03/05/2007 07:20:08
Originally by: James Lyrus Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
A pilgrim with that setup won't do the nossy-drone-death either.
The point is that such a pilgrim hauler setup is not really practical. Any halfway decent gatecamp *will* decloak you because you are slow as hell. I would rather make 6 trips with a cov ops than one with a pilgrim fitted that way.
Personally I would rather make transport ships give them a useful bonus to agility & speed than giving them any cloaking bonus. It doesn't really fit to blockade runners.
From experience though, whilst there's _decent_ gate camps out there, there's way more enthusiast gate camps. The latter are somewhat flummoxed by cloakers. (It's not _that_ easy to spot and decloak someone)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:03:00 -
[228]
Yes, but those can be survived by a blockade runner as it is right now just fine if you use mwd-cloak-wait mwd cycle-uncloak-instawarp
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.05 18:08:00 -
[229]
*BUMP*
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Ulii
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Posted - 2007.05.08 08:08:00 -
[230]
Think i might bump this one...
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zevex
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Posted - 2007.05.08 19:28:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Aramendel Yes, but those can be survived by a blockade runner as it is right now just fine if you use mwd-cloak-wait mwd cycle-uncloak-instawarp
This only works if you are not in a bubble. If you are in a bubble, and your nearest exit point is not in line with a celestial object, you are kind of hosed. In the old days you stood a chance mwd'ing back to the gate, but today the acceleration is far too slow.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.08 20:15:00 -
[232]
I remember a time when a legitimate, well reasoned thread like this would receive acknowledgement from a dev pretty fast, with their view of the situation. I think it was TomB at the time, pity he's gone
__________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:18:00 -
[233]
no worries I don't let this one sink
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:54:00 -
[234]
Originally by: zevex This only works if you are not in a bubble. If you are in a bubble, and your nearest exit point is not in line with a celestial object, you are kind of hosed. In the old days you stood a chance mwd'ing back to the gate, but today the acceleration is far too slow.
2 problems here. Firstly, going for the shortest route out of the bubble is generally a bad idea. If the defenders have any brains they will search especially that area for you. Going for a less obvious route is usually better. Secondly, once you are out of the bubble it isn't that much of a problem to get away. Even if you have no speed from the MWD boost left you'll warp in less than 5 seconds. Add the uncloaking lag to this and you are rather hard to catch in that time. In the worst case you can simply stay cloaked and slowboat till you are a least 30k away from all enemies.
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max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:59:00 -
[235]
you can fit MWD, Case closed.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:10:00 -
[236]
Originally by: max bygraves you can fit MWD, Case closed.
wow that was smart
Almost any ship can do that .. so what ?
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Alrich
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Posted - 2007.05.10 08:46:00 -
[237]
because anything that fitts a mwd is owerpowered and it is the ultimate escape module... nothing can hit you because they get blinded by your gigantic sig radius. missiles will get confused and think you are a planet, therefor avoiding you, turrets wont be able to lock you because their target computers will be overloaded by your almighty sig radius!!
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.05.10 12:36:00 -
[238]
I think that despite most of us managing to keep this thread on pretty good form, we seem to have attracted some of the lowest IQ posts in recently recorded human history.
No Dev response yet, but thats something I guess
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Plures Nex
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:07:00 -
[239]
Some more fuel for the fire. Using the time-to-warp equationfrom the previous page, I ran the times for all the industrails and trandsport ships when fitted and rigged for fastest warp. I'm assuming Evasive manovering V and no alignment time. Listed in order of time to warp (in seconds)
Sigil2.67 Iteron V2.86 Impel3.48 Mammoth3.80 Prorator3.84 Iteron III3.99 Bestower4.10 Iteron IV4.27 Hoarder4.37 Occator4.46 Wreathe4.75 Iteron I4.86 Viator4.98 Badger II5.13 Iteron II5.22 Mastodon5.29 Prowler5.58 Bustard5.72 Badger6.05 Crane6.42
Everyones old favorite, the Iteron Mk V, is the second fastest, beaten only by the sigil. The fastest deep space transport (Impel) beats out the fastest blockade runner (Prorator). Two of the bottom four places are taken by blocakde runners. You have to feel sorry for the caldari, holding the last three spots like that. All races are better off (from a time-to-warp perspective) sticking to Tech I ships.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.05.11 10:43:00 -
[240]
heh you'd think that they would at least roughly still be in the same order after the nerf..being as 'some of the slowest ships flying through space' are able to warp faster than their apparently 'faster' counterparts.
I'm not even gonna mention the tech 1s..
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