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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14554
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:31:47 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks!
This thread will cover the upcoming changes to Tactical Destroyers in Ascension and the associated change to Small Artillery powergrid requirements.
I want to start by giving a shout-out to the members of the Tactical Destroyers focus group that has been very helpful in planning these changes. This focus group consists of a combination of volunteers collected from an open call for applications (on the forums) and any CSM members that wished to join in. If you're not familiar with the CCP focus group program, all the logs of our discussions with the focus groups can be found at https://focusgrouplogs.tech.ccp.is/ for full transparency. Focus group member Suitonia has published some excellent articles about his experience with the focus group so far here and here.
To go along with these changes we are also making an adjustment to the powergrid requirements of Small Artillery weapons. This is paired with a reduction in powergrid for the Svipul, so the end result is that arty Svipuls will be about as hard to fit as today, autocannon Svipuls will get tighter fittings, and all non-Svipul small arty ships will get easier fittings.
- All Small Artillery: -2 PWG
As for the Tactical Destroyers themselves, here's a summary of the changes:
Adding a damage bonus to sharpshooter mode and reducing other damage bonuses to compensate: This is intended to encourage more mode switching and help create more room for high-skill T3D pilots to really shine, while generally reducing the overall powerlevel a bit. While running Defensive or Propulsion mode all four ships will do noticeably less damage than the current baseline. While in Sharpshooter mode the Hecate and Jackdaw damage will go up a bit, and the Svipul and Confessor will drop a tad.
Removing the sharpshooter scan resolution bonus, adding a new Dampener and Weapon Disruptor resistance bonus in its place: This is primarily intended to reduce the power of instalocking T3Ds, while enhancing the Sharpshooter mode's strengths against hostile electronic warfare.
Replacing the Confessor and Svipul propulsion mode base speed bonuses with a AB/MWD speed boost bonus: This change makes MWD Confessors and Svipuls more vulnerable to scrambling and makes their Propulsion mode a bit more situational. Suitonia wrote up a very good article about his view on this change here.
Reducing the PWG requirements of small artillery weapons, and reducing the PWG on the Svipul: In the context of T3Ds, this primarily helps reduce the power of autocannon Svipuls since they no longer need to have so much excess powergrid to be able to fit artillery. Having a fair bit of PWG free when using autocannons is a normal and intended Minmatar strength, but it can become a problem when it goes too far (and this was one of those times).
Moving a midslot to a lowslot on the Jackdaw. This is bound to be a fairly controversial change, and it was the last one added to the plan for this expansion. The intention here is to generally buff the Jackdaw by opening up more options for damage and mobility through the lowslot, while reducing some of the very extreme tanks. I'm very interested in hearing what the community thinks about this proposal, so please let us know if you have an opinion on either side.
Some speed, mass, hitpoint and signature tweaks: These changes generally represent a moderate nerf for the Svipul, a small nerf for the Confessor and small buffs for the Jackdaw and Hecate.
And here are the proposed ship stats and bonuses in full:
CONFESSOR Amarr Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (Was 10% per level) 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use 5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules Role Bonus: 33% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (Was 50%) 95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements
Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds. Defense Mode: 33.3% bonus to all armor resistances while Defense Mode is enabled 33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is enabled Propulsion Mode: 66.6% bonus to Afterburner and Microwarpdrive speed boost while Propulsion Mode is enabled (Was base speed increase) 33.3% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is enabled Sharpshooter Mode: 66.6% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled 33.3% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (New) 100% bonus to sensor strength and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (Previously included scan resolution) 66.6% increased resistances against hostile Sensor Dampeners and Weapon Disruptors while Sharpshooter Mode is enabled (New)
Slot layout: 6H, 3M, 5L, 4 turrets 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 62 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 600 / 800 / 750 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 800 / 320s / 2.5 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 230 (-5) / 3 (+0.3) / 1,800,000 (-200,000) / 4.5 / 7.49s Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 520 (+195) / 7 Sensor strength: 13 Radar Signature radius: 65 (+5) Cargo capacity: 400 SVIPUL Minmatar Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage (Was 10% per l...
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14554
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:31:53 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1541
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Posted - 2016.10.26 14:43:56 -
[3] - Quote
very nice! |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3055
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:04:52 -
[4] - Quote
What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
171
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:07:54 -
[5] - Quote
Looks very well thought out. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3573
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:09:32 -
[6] - Quote
Good to see that it is being attended to. I think the slot shift in the Jackdaw will be a good one.
Thanks to the people who actually survived all the focus group sessions.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Suitonia
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers Top Tier
712
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:37:36 -
[7] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor?
The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Erik Kalkoken
VOLTAGE REGULATORS No Handlebars.
31
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:54:01 -
[8] - Quote
RIP Insta Gate camp Svipul
I will miss this gameplay. Enjoyed it a lot. Especially solo.
Alliance Facebok page - Check out my blog - Find me on zKillboard
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
194
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Posted - 2016.10.26 15:59:31 -
[9] - Quote
Changes look nice but I'm not sure what to make of the Jackdaw changes, seems like a nerf for an already underpowered ship. I mean, why reduce the Jackdaw damage from 5% down to 3%? Its damage was already terrible compared to the others. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:03:26 -
[10] - Quote
As someone who doesnt fly T3Ds (just kils them), im more excited for small artillery changes. Jag, wolf, slasher, dram, claw, thrasher and sabre fits are all opened up for a new meta. It will be glorious.
I am happy the svipul got beat down some, will be nice not seeing just T3Ds when i roam.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3055
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:03:47 -
[11] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor? The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set. Erm ... a single T1 poly rig makes it instawarp. Don't think this is a big sacrifice.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 16:44:41 -
[12] - Quote
I still think the hecate will be kind of trashy and awkward after this. I think its problem is it's only competitive solo. it can't make a buffer tank that benefits from logi or that can have a fight and then not go back to station after. it's limited to 1 type of prop mod (I guess I'd be more into this if the pointless cap usage bonus was swapped to something fun like mwd overheat amount). and again we have this awkward thing with an optimal range bonus for blasters. if I'm loading null or void, it's only affecting half of my range, and if I'm loading antimatter, it's only affecting a quarter of my range. I was hoping with the 'generic' range bonuses on battlecruisers we'd be past this
svipul confessor still have quite a bit more base speed than jackdaw hecate, why?
I think 66% resistance to ewar is crazy high. kind of like what capitals get, it basically means you're ewar immune, but ewar people can still get on your lossmail
I was really hoping for some kind of tank mode nerf to fix destroyers with 26k ehp all in regenerating shields with huge resists
the rest is ok I guess. that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:09:43 -
[13] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs?
Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs.
Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1552
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:15:06 -
[14] - Quote
You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it? |
Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
27
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:16:59 -
[15] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it?
No they're moving a mid slot to a low slot. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 17:18:37 -
[16] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs. Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta.
double mse svipul will only need to lose 1 of its 3 gyros or 1 of its 3 tank rigs
and yeah, even more scram kiters. even on ships that are really obviously supposed to fit autocannons. joy :( |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
779
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:05:21 -
[17] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: that arty grid change is really odd. we're already playing long range guns online, why more buffs? Because small arty grid was never rebalanced with rest of artillery. Also the grid change to arty was needed to make certain arty svipul fits still viable since svipul is losing grid to help curb those dual MSE or 10mn ac fits. Which were caused by the huge disparity between ac and arty fitting needs. Also, you dont seem to realize long range small guns were mainly lasers, rails and missiles. Very few minny frigate/dessies could fit arty in any viable pvp fit (minus svipul). Theyve been behind the curve for awhile. Now, the jag, wolf, rifter, slasher, claw, dram, sabre and thrasher have wiggle room for new fits/meta. double mse svipul will only need to lose 1 of its 3 gyros or 1 of its 3 tank rigs and yeah, even more scram kiters. even on ships that are really obviously supposed to fit autocannons. joy :(
Still an improvement, plus it loses dps unless in sharpshooter mode.
Since when have minmatar ever been an in your face brawling faction? Acs are mid range weapons, blasters are close range. Rifters scram kite (albeit terribly) already with acs. As do arty thrashers (that arent instalock fit). Jag is meant to scram kite. Wolf is arguably an in your face brawler, just has a poor slot layout.
The great thing about EVE is that no ship is "supposed" to fit anything, its all up to what the person wants to fly. Minny ships arent known to be robust to throw themselves into the guns of your hecate. So range control is kind of their thing.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1275
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Posted - 2016.10.26 18:31:11 -
[18] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Since when have minmatar ever been an in your face brawling faction? Acs are mid range weapons, blasters are close range. Rifters scram kite (albeit terribly) already with acs. As do arty thrashers (that arent instalock fit). Jag is meant to scram kite. Wolf is arguably an in your face brawler, just has a poor slot layout.
The great thing about EVE is that no ship is "supposed" to fit anything, its all up to what the person wants to fly. Minny ships arent known to be robust to throw themselves into the guns of your hecate. So range control is kind of their thing.
we're already playing scram kiting, kiting and alpha -online. I thought people would like to not see more of it
many ships have particular leanings, determined by their bonuses and attributes. at least some of the ships you mentioned should be able to do well with autocannons, but don't. an artillery fitting buff is no good there. saying small autos are meant to scram kite is kind of silly tbh. yes you'll scram kite against blasters, but you will not scram kite against rails or rockets. they've just been a bit left behind by all the power creep |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Tactical-Retreat
2092
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Posted - 2016.10.26 19:25:20 -
[19] - Quote
I like these changes... Except for the Jackdaw. It really didn't need a DPS nerf outside of sharpshooter mode.
If it's going to be less tanky and forced to stay outside of defense/propulsion mode to do decent damages, then at the very least its anemic damage outside of sharpshooter mode should have been kept identical. The Jackdaw is already the slowest, weakest, 'awkwardest' T3D... Not cool.
For some reason, it also lacks an utility high.
I'm not saying that the Jackdaw is worthless, its agility and reload time especially make it very "comfortable" and somewhat fun to fly... But the illusion doesn't last long, as it is clearly outclassed by other T3Ds when it comes to fighting stuff. Which is what these ships are all about.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:42:47 -
[20] - Quote
Erik Kalkoken wrote:RIP Insta Gate camp Svipul
I will miss this gameplay. Enjoyed it a lot. Especially solo.
And nobody will miss you..
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:44:42 -
[21] - Quote
There must be a typo on the Confessor stats. It says mass 1.800.000 (-200.000) and you clearly meant 1.500.000 (-500.000).
But no worries, I caught it in time.
Yours truly.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
90
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:38:06 -
[22] - Quote
oh man!
Cant wait to fly the improved Jackdaw so I can start locking ships at the blistering speed that 350mm scan resolution provides!
Thats 8 seconds to lock a light drone, and 6 sec to lock a frigate. Perfect. |
Raido Kudonen
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:53:46 -
[23] - Quote
Jackdaw and Hecate should probably keep their RoF bonuses at 5% per level, because the Jackdaw's DPS is frankly terrible compared to the other T3Ds and the Hecate's only real strong point is damage (since it can be easily kited by a T1 cruiser with a scram and web). |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2756
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:58:27 -
[24] - Quote
I look forward to seeing these on TQ.
Thank you to CCP and the Focus Group participants for what look to be solid changes.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
738
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:24:02 -
[25] - Quote
Looks good. I think this strikes a fair balance. Some fairly big nerfs whilst not nerfing them to oblivion.
Switching the damage bonus to the sharpshooter mode and switching the speed bonus to the AB MWD are very good solutions.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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xXxNIMRODxXx
Crusader Brewery
38
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:47:48 -
[26] - Quote
Took you only 2 years of tears to actually do something. Congrats on the nerf on the Jackdaw, as if it wasn't already in a niche place.... |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1438
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:05:17 -
[27] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:oh man!
Cant wait to fly the improved Jackdaw so I can start locking ships at the blistering speed that 350mm scan resolution provides!
Thats 8 seconds to lock a light drone, and 6 sec to lock a frigate. Perfect.
You and your blobb-muppets should just stay silent.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Luscius Uta
239
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:39:38 -
[28] - Quote
You could've just nerfed the scanres bonus of sharpshooter mode to 75 % or 66.6% instead of completely removing it, same goes for targeting range bonus since a targeting range of up to 137,5 km on a small hull is a bit silly. And giving resistance to damps and TDs isn't exactly a nerf, since it removes two weaknesses on those hulls.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two
1554
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Posted - 2016.10.27 07:40:36 -
[29] - Quote
Darrien wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:You're giving the jackdaw another low, but no CPU to go with it? No they're moving a mid slot to a low slot.
Right and at the same time nerfing the already hilariously low DPS out of sharpshooter, ostensibly this damage can be clawed back via an extra BCU, which it can't fit. Meanwhile the mid loss hurts either it's tank or control.
But perhaps I missed the clouds of jackdaws blotting out the sun previously, maybe it did need a healthy nerf too. Could have sworn said clouds were svipuls though. |
FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
92
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Posted - 2016.10.27 10:08:06 -
[30] - Quote
Hell yeah, a slam dunk on command bursts, mining command ships, and now on t3ds. Great job guys, I can't wait to see what's in store for t3cs.
Edit: Engineering complexes are pretty cool too, I guess. |
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Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
91
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Posted - 2016.10.27 10:09:43 -
[31] - Quote
Quote:Fast locking T3Ds are a big problem for players wanting to roam out in lowsec and especially nullsec with frigates. A Svipul with a single sensor booster is a faster locker than a Stiletto with a signal amplifier fitted, and without a sensor booster locks faster than the fastest Tech I combat frigate, the Rifter. This has hurt the nullsec roaming meta substantially, and has killed a lot of active-tanked frigate PvP in null. A single Svipul even without a sensor booster forces you to burn away on every jump in, repair your armor, reload your ancillary, giving the Svipul enough time to get ahead of you on the next gate to have to do it all again. In a T1 frigate you can even be insta-popped in ships like the Atron. Needless to say, this is awful gameplay. Especially as the Svipul can achieve this with relatively little sacrifice.
The idea here is to make the sensor benefits of Sharpshooter more finely tuned to GÇ£anti-EWARGÇ¥, and eliminate some of the oppressive gameplay (mostly from the Svipul) with high scan resolutions in Sharpshooter on T3Ds.
This will mean camping Svipuls will have to sacrifice a mid for an extra sensor booster to get close to the same performance as now, which will make them more vulnerable, and they wonGÇÖt be able to casually lock every frigate in the game just by being in Sharpshooter. The addition of damp and weapon disruptor resistance are interesting and will benefit a lot of sniper/kite T3Ds like the Confessor.
I would just like to quote this part of Suitonia's blog post.
Can -anyone- explain why, when correctly identifying the problems of a Svipuls high scan res, a decision was made to nerf all t3d scan res, instead of just the Svipuls? |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
185
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Posted - 2016.10.27 10:32:32 -
[32] - Quote
These are good changes. The svipul is getting mauled with the balance machete. It will be fine after this. Probably. Thank you very much for reducing the fitting cost of small artillery in this pass as well.
Yes. Good changes. Carry on. |
Suitonia
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers Top Tier
713
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Posted - 2016.10.27 11:34:50 -
[33] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:oh man!
Cant wait to fly the improved Jackdaw so I can start locking ships at the blistering speed that 350mm scan resolution provides!
Thats 8 seconds to lock a light drone, and 6 sec to lock a frigate. Perfect.
Thats the old value of the jackdaw before skills.
Jackdaw -1 Mid Slot +1 Low Slot 1,100,000 kg (+100k) Mass 6x (-0.6x) Inertia Modifier 500 mm (+225) Scan Resolution 180 m/s (+10) Velocity
The new Scan Resolution is 500mm before skills, if you have Signature analysis 5 it will have a 625mm signature
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1439
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Posted - 2016.10.27 12:46:09 -
[34] - Quote
One more question, do we have to expect a production material increase by 400 fold now too??
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
783
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Posted - 2016.10.27 12:52:09 -
[35] - Quote
Next up to "Making Artillery Great Again"
Can you spend some time making medium 650s not terrible? Or give arty 3 size options like all other weapon systems.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1537
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Posted - 2016.10.27 16:12:21 -
[36] - Quote
I have to lol at the Svipul getting the nerf hammer to its base speed bonus. Giving it the same prop mode vulnerability as the Hecate is pretty ingenious.
However, since the bonus also applies to ABs, I expect we will start seeing a lot more 10MN AC Svipuls. Can't wait to try it on sisi.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
136
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Posted - 2016.10.28 11:21:14 -
[37] - Quote
Why do you have to keep making it harder and harder for me to fit oversized microwarpdrives to ships? |
Valkin Mordirc
2619
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Posted - 2016.10.28 14:23:02 -
[38] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:Why do you have to keep making it harder and harder for me to fit oversized microwarpdrives to ships?
RIP 14km/s Svipuls
#DeleteTheWeak
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Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
80
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Posted - 2016.10.28 15:37:38 -
[39] - Quote
my jackdaw thanks you
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
221
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Posted - 2016.10.28 16:37:51 -
[40] - Quote
Great changes. At least one year too late, but better late than never. |
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Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
338
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Posted - 2016.10.28 17:25:07 -
[41] - Quote
Sad, fast warp out by switching to prop mod was interesting.
Also why hec/jack get such unproportional scan res. increases to fessor/svip. Hecate's scan res. should go down to 500mm and Jack's to 495mm. |
Lelob
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
239
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Posted - 2016.10.28 17:37:23 -
[42] - Quote
These nerfs are simply not enough. There is still no reason whatsoever to fly an assault frig instead of a t3d. |
Cade Windstalker
598
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Posted - 2016.10.28 17:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Since when have minmatar ever been an in your face brawling faction? Acs are mid range weapons, blasters are close range. Rifters scram kite (albeit terribly) already with acs. As do arty thrashers (that arent instalock fit). Jag is meant to scram kite. Wolf is arguably an in your face brawler, just has a poor slot layout.
The great thing about EVE is that no ship is "supposed" to fit anything, its all up to what the person wants to fly. Minny ships arent known to be robust to throw themselves into the guns of your hecate. So range control is kind of their thing.
Agreed that there is no "supposed to" in Eve, just sets of stats that players get to mash together and CCP making sure no one's stat-block tower gets too high above the pile.
The thing about ACs being mid-range weapons is only sort of true though. Their optimal is tiny even compared to Small Blasters and they sacrifice a lot of DPS to get out to small gun mid range. Realistically they've got a trade-off between DPS and range, and if they get in close enough they can use their tracking to get under the guns of long range opponents and deal a lot of DPS. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
338
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Posted - 2016.10.28 21:27:19 -
[44] - Quote
Lelob wrote:These nerfs are simply not enough. There is still no reason whatsoever to fly an assault frig instead of a t3d. There won't be even if t3ds get nerfed into the ground, assaults just need a balance pass.
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Cat Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 09:14:22 -
[45] - Quote
All in all good changes, but i would like to throw my 2 cents in on the jackdaw and hecate changes:
-The Jackdaw slot move seems unnecessary, but i can see how it would work. The issue is more that you're shifting its playstyle over more by a slot migration in that the 6 mid slots really shone when being utilized with an active tanked rocket build (with a generous amount of isk sunk into the build, ofc). Shifting the slots means that it's less worth the investment when you could fly a hawk now, which i think we'll be seeing more of. TLDR; while the changes hurt the current Jackdaw gameplay a bit, it'll help bring back the hawk a bit more, and will encourage the Jackdaw meta to shift more towards light missile boats.
-I'm astonished that nobody had the good sense to exchange repair bonus from cycle time to repair amount. Small reps generally benefit far more from an amount boost, while the larger sized versions start benefitting more from cycle time reductions only because the duration between reps is comparatively long. The capacitor issues it faces don't outweigh the benefit of having a shorter cycle time. Also, why is it still the odd duck out with being locked into mwd gameplay with the prop mod bonus? If anyone can recall a reason that was given specifically to curb its power, I'd like to hear it, but the only thing i can see it doing is being further hindered from a lack of an agility bonus that makes the T3D class so popular with 10mn afterburners. It would balance much better as a railgun platform if those changes were implemented, and allow its blasters to find their targets more often with an afterburner speed and agility bonus like the jackdaw enjoys. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
881
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 09:36:52 -
[46] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Lelob wrote:These nerfs are simply not enough. There is still no reason whatsoever to fly an assault frig instead of a t3d. There won't be even if t3ds get nerfed into the ground, assaults just need a balance pass.
Basically. Before grr t3d it was grrr pirate frigs after they were introduced on the server. CCP nerfed them in time and there still was no flood of AF's fly9ng around ....we just had 2 classes of frigates people were not rushing to fly in at that point. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1442
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 09:54:33 -
[47] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:...Before grr t3d it was grrr pirate frigs after they were introduced on the server. CCP nerfed them...
About that "nerf".
What happened was "anyone know what a Worm is? ...Never heard of it / never seen one in my life..." to OMG a drone can do wrecking shot??
Drone OP, CCP make nerf zee drone.
CCP: yeah, no good, drone make wrecking shot to poor faction warfare sissies. How about amputation?
After that New Eden got tactical destroyers.
Faction warfare sissy 1 flies sooper-dooper slasher and gets killed by destroyer. After that almost surprising outcome only one thing could be true, destroyer op.
Fact, there is only one of them op.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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Lelob
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
239
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 13:53:13 -
[48] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:...Before grr t3d it was grrr pirate frigs after they were introduced on the server. CCP nerfed them... About that "nerf". What happened was "anyone know what a Worm is? ...Never heard of it / never seen one in my life..." to OMG a drone can do wrecking shot?? Drone OP, CCP make nerf zee drone. CCP: yeah, no good, drone make wrecking shot to poor faction warfare sissies. How about amputation? After that New Eden got tactical destroyers. Faction warfare sissy 1 flies sooper-dooper slasher and gets killed by destroyer. After that almost surprising outcome only one thing could be true, destroyer op. Fact, there is only one of them op.
Yeah so when t3ds were first introduced, you could literally do a x2 asb, 10mn ab, 200mm autocannon svipul that would faceroll over gangs, for under 100mil. They nerfed them a bit, but it is still to the point where t3d's have completely eclipsed:
-All Assault Frigates -Most Hac gangs that are not cerbs -Most intie gangs -Most t1 cruiser gangs
I'd be willing to bet that there isn't a single decent alliance in eve that doesn't have some kind of t3d doctrine at this point.
I'll just do some of the top alliancess on zkill atm:
Project Mayham (#1 most used ship: svipul) CO2 (#1 most used ship: svipul) PL (#9 most used ship: svipul) Pandemic Horde: (#1 most used ship: svipul) Goons (no t3d's in top ships ) ncdot (no t3d's in top ships ) test ( #4 most used ship: svipul)
Let's look at the most used ships in space atm according to zkill:
Top Ships
Sabre Sabre8,454 Svipul10,318 Stiletto6,501 Proteus3,547 Malediction5,237 Gila2,987 Tengu2,945 Orthrus3,646 Confessor4,178 Machariel3,565 Cynabal3,280
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......
http://imgur.com/a/o5g34
50k ehp before heat, 400 dps, goes 2.2k/s before heat (3k/s with heat...propulsion it goes 3.6k/s before heat and 5.1k/s with heat with a 3.13 second aligntime meaning you are basically top speed in 4 seconds), has a tiny sig, warps at 4.5au/s, aligns faster than inties, is cap stable, has combat probes, an empty highslot for w/e, costs under 100mil WITH FACTION AND T2 RIGS but OH NO, svipuls aren't ******* broken.
Seriously, these nerfs are nowhere near enough to address how broken these ships actually are. The tank is still massive, the warp speed/agility are still going to be great, sure the dps might be decreased but w/e. so you make do with 200-300dps, which is still alot more than anything comparable, you have a massive cargohold, great capacitor life, excellent resists. HELL, you can even lock more targets then a t3 cruiser (7 for a t3d, as opposed to 5 for a t3 cruiser). |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
340
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 17:57:40 -
[49] - Quote
Lelob wrote:elitatwo wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:...Before grr t3d it was grrr pirate frigs after they were introduced on the server. CCP nerfed them... About that "nerf". What happened was "anyone know what a Worm is? ...Never heard of it / never seen one in my life..." to OMG a drone can do wrecking shot?? Drone OP, CCP make nerf zee drone. CCP: yeah, no good, drone make wrecking shot to poor faction warfare sissies. How about amputation? After that New Eden got tactical destroyers. Faction warfare sissy 1 flies sooper-dooper slasher and gets killed by destroyer. After that almost surprising outcome only one thing could be true, destroyer op. Fact, there is only one of them op. Yeah so when t3ds were first introduced, you could literally do a x2 asb, 10mn ab, 200mm autocannon svipul that would faceroll over gangs, for under 100mil. They nerfed them a bit, but it is still to the point where t3d's have completely eclipsed: -All Assault Frigates -Most Hac gangs that are not cerbs -Most intie gangs -Most t1 cruiser gangs I'd be willing to bet that there isn't a single decent alliance in eve that doesn't have some kind of t3d doctrine at this point. I'll just do some of the top alliancess on zkill atm: Project Mayham (#1 most used ship: svipul) CO2 (#1 most used ship: svipul) PL (#9 most used ship: svipul) Pandemic Horde: (#1 most used ship: svipul) Goons (no t3d's in top ships ) ncdot (no t3d's in top ships ) test ( #4 most used ship: svipul) Let's look at the most used ships in space atm according to zkill: Top Ships Sabre Sabre8,454 Svipul10,318Stiletto6,501 Proteus3,547 Malediction5,237 Gila2,987 Tengu2,945 Orthrus3,646 Confessor4,178Machariel3,565 Cynabal3,280 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... http://imgur.com/a/o5g34 50k ehp before heat, 400 dps, goes 2.2k/s before heat (3k/s with heat...propulsion it goes 3.6k/s before heat and 5.1k/s with heat with a 3.13 second aligntime meaning you are basically top speed in 4 seconds), has a tiny sig, warps at 4.5au/s, aligns faster than inties, is cap stable, has combat probes, an empty highslot for w/e, costs under 100mil WITH FACTION AND T2 RIGS but OH NO, svipuls aren't ******* broken. Seriously, these nerfs are nowhere near enough to address how broken these ships actually are. The tank is still massive, the warp speed/agility are still going to be great, sure the dps might be decreased but w/e. so you make do with 200-300dps, which is still alot more than anything comparable, you have a massive cargohold, great capacitor life, excellent resists. HELL, you can even lock more targets then a t3 cruiser (7 for a t3d, as opposed to 5 for a t3 cruiser). You say T3Ds and talk only about svipul.
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Galinius Valgani
Albertross Mining Corp. Off The Reservation.
47
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Posted - 2016.11.01 08:57:19 -
[50] - Quote
So T3Ds aside. Is there any other fit for Frigates or Destroyers now better usable because of the changes to small Artillery? |
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1538
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 20:24:28 -
[51] - Quote
There is a reason T3Ds were worth 6 pts in AT this year, and T1 cruisers were only 5.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
881
|
Posted - 2016.11.02 03:37:41 -
[52] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:...Before grr t3d it was grrr pirate frigs after they were introduced on the server. CCP nerfed them... About that "nerf". What happened was "anyone know what a Worm is? ...Never heard of it / never seen one in my life..." to OMG a drone can do wrecking shot?? Drone OP, CCP make nerf zee drone. CCP: yeah, no good, drone make wrecking shot to poor faction warfare sissies. How about amputation? After that New Eden got tactical destroyers. Faction warfare sissy 1 flies sooper-dooper slasher and gets killed by destroyer. After that almost surprising outcome only one thing could be true, destroyer op. Fact, there is only one of them op.
I was thinking many years back when dramiel new and shiny to the server. And....was used like mad. for good reason. If corrected everything about AF's sad state...and said yeah inty, I am trying to take your job too at least a little. recall 80 mil isk cost back when that cost actually was steep. 2009 80 mil isk. Pricey as hell for the time....but like the visa commercials went, priceless for what it got you.
But yeah feel bad for the worm. Yet another ship that could have stayed in better shape, imo, if CCP could find more refined ways to limit if not stop oversized prop mod fitting. 10 mn abuse imo the biggest factor that got it skylined and castrated.
Inb4 the oversized fans go but but...our fitting freedom. Most times I'd say have at, get your freak on fitting wise. Its when it wrecks nice ships and ccp's only recourse is to castrate ships grids and slot wise...yeah, its annoying as hell. SQL and code experience tells me its just a data field or 2 to make this happen. Can your ship class fit this? Data field says.....hell no. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1448
|
Posted - 2016.11.02 03:54:08 -
[53] - Quote
Lelob wrote:...Yeah so when t3ds were first introduced, you could literally do a x2 asb, 10mn ab, 200mm autocannon svipul that would faceroll over gangs, for under 100mil. They nerfed them a bit, but it is still to the point where t3d's have completely eclipsed:
-All Assault Frigates -Most Hac gangs that are not cerbs -Most intie gangs -Most t1 cruiser gangs
You do know that I don't even fly those and the Confessor was nowhere near overpowered. Were they powerful for the - let me put it out there - completely new shipclass, yes.
Though one Sentinel and the Confessor would have a really bad day.
The Jackdaw came pre-nerfed into the game and when you tried to catch a possible target with 2k m/s and your target was only flying 2800m/s at the time and can shoot down any Jackdaw with perfect tracking.
The Hecate is an interesting one but even she has a glaring weakness inbuilt. I cannot see this boat as overpowered as she is made up to be.
This leaves only on suspect and it is not as rusty or duck tape as the lore would dictate is. Maybe there is "slight" (whine-)matar bias somewhere?
Which reminds me, when do the Amarr, the Caldari and Gallente faction get proper interdiction destroyers?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them.
This is the law
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GROUND XERO
Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem.
12
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 12:17:55 -
[54] - Quote
"Houston we have a problem!" ...
"Ok we will just change everything and see if it will fix it!"
TRUE |
Nick Bison
Bad Wolf. Circle-Of-Two
329
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 12:49:15 -
[55] - Quote
And still no one will be flying the Hecate. It's a good ship but just isn't good enough to be competitive. I am not sure what to change without making it OP so, just consider this post a whine ...
Nothing clever at this time.
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Capsuleer Delta-03
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 18:44:23 -
[56] - Quote
So, can we get skillpoints refunded for training Minmatar Tactical Destroyer V now? Had I known this when I trained it a month ago I really wouldn't have invested the time. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2762
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 21:02:33 -
[57] - Quote
Capsuleer Delta-03 wrote:So, can we get skillpoints refunded for training Minmatar Tactical Destroyer V now? Had I known this when I trained it a month ago I really wouldn't have invested the time.
Now we know whose fault it is for getting the Svipul nerfed. They were waiting for YOU to train Minmatar Tactical Destroyer V. You should have trained it about 18 months ago.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Capsuleer Delta-03
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 21:44:24 -
[58] - Quote
Now I'll train the T3 Cruisers, so that maybe ships that need to get nerfed will get nerfed. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
801
|
Posted - 2016.11.04 00:14:53 -
[59] - Quote
Galinius Valgani wrote:So T3Ds aside. Is there any other fit for Frigates or Destroyers now better usable because of the changes to small Artillery?
Pretty much every frigate and destroyer in the minmatar line-up (and the dram) got a fitting buff in regards to powergrid. Thrashers and sabre in particularly will be able to fit some pretty mean 280mm fits. Jag also will be able to fit an MSE for about 8.8k EHP w/ 280's, scram/web and 180-200dps.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1276
|
Posted - 2016.11.04 16:33:53 -
[60] - Quote
hecate has less powergrid than svipul confessor and has to fit more guns |
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Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
350
|
Posted - 2016.11.04 19:06:36 -
[61] - Quote
Probably 'cause pulses/beams/arti require more pwg than blasters/rails. |
Golemag
Deep Space Explorers Inc. GaNg BaNg TeAm
10
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 03:12:17 -
[62] - Quote
CCP really loves to **** it's players of doesn't it?
Just ask for the fits that are supposed to be fitted on every t3 destroyer and be done with it.
We would have been way way better if they released the ships with the fits integrated. No confusion around the idea that it can be actually fitted somewhat different to exploit different strength of the ship's hull.
Dumb it down more. Don't leave option for people to think of a ways to fit them so that they can exploit the ship's uniqueness.
This is constructive criticism.. if someone says otherwise. I've been following any change done on any ships since you released them. You would be amazed and frustrated like me if you had a way to see how you ruining the game trying to make it playable by idiots and morons.
With those changes you basically killed 10 different fits for each of the t3 destroyers just so that you can accommodate few nolifer users spending all their time blobbing up the forum database with moronic and non-realistic requests so that their tiny brains can better cope with the complexity of the game. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1205
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 12:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Suitonia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor? The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set. Erm ... a single T1 poly rig makes it instawarp. Don't think this is a big sacrifice. It is if you ever decide to use the ship to fight rather than just run away. Jack has the lowest DPS of all T3D's, using a valuable rig slot (used for damage application or tank - remembering it has also lost a mid) to help you run away faster really is quite a trade off.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Viriato Legionis
Bregan D'aerthe
4
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Posted - 2016.11.14 11:31:28 -
[64] - Quote
Hi there, in short; I don-¦t like the changes, this time you nerfed the Svipul badly, you pretty much went with those pilots asking for Tactical D nerfs and with those TD pilots flying non Mimmatar variants.
Of course i-¦m not buying/fitting new ones, that-¦s a sure thing and just regret now have invested heavily in them |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18406
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 11:42:47 -
[65] - Quote
Viriato Legionis wrote:Hi there, in short; I don-¦t like the changes, this time you nerfed the Svipul badly , you pretty much went with those pilots asking for Tactical D nerfs and with those TD pilots flying non Mimmatar variants. Of course i-¦m not buying/fitting new ones, that-¦s a sure thing and just regret now have invested heavily in them
Of course you don't like the changes, you want your I win button. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
352
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:53:31 -
[66] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Suitonia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor? The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set. Erm ... a single T1 poly rig makes it instawarp. Don't think this is a big sacrifice. It is if you ever decide to use the ship to fight rather than just run away. Jack has the lowest DPS of all T3D's, using a valuable rig slot (used for damage application or tank - remembering it has also lost a mid) to help you run away faster really is quite a trade off. Well, you can't really fight if you become a wreck 'cause of gatecamp. Instawarp change was a subpar decision on CCPs part, it didn't make t3ds OP so should have been left untouched. |
Bammari Spazedust
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 01:29:08 -
[67] - Quote
What is the reasoning behind the weapon disruption nerf to these things? Is it really necessary to fill every possible hole on what are already the most powerful (pound for pound) and certainly the most versatile ships in the game?!? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1276
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 11:53:13 -
[68] - Quote
Bammari Spazedust wrote:What is the reasoning behind adding the weapon disruption resistance to t3ds? Is it really necessary to fill every possible hole on what are already the most powerful (pound for pound) and certainly the most versatile ships in the game?!? At least make it resistance to ecm instead since that is already a bad mechanic.
While trying to emphasize the skill of the t3d pilot, you are de-emphasizing the skill of his opponent. You are giving him even more ability to counter anything his opponent does than he already has, while his opponent remains helplessly subject to the td3 pilot's ability to manage his abilities.
like with capitals, this resistance is so strong it may as well be an immunity. terrible tbh |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2974
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 21:08:17 -
[69] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Suitonia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:What is the reasonining behind to keep the effortless instawarp capabilities of Jackdaw and Hecate while removing the mode-switch-trick from the Svipul and Confessor? The Jackdaw doesn't have sub 2 second align unless you have a 4% Agility Implant, or nano/agility rig, or Geno set. Erm ... a single T1 poly rig makes it instawarp. Don't think this is a big sacrifice. It is if you ever decide to use the ship to fight rather than just run away. Jack has the lowest DPS of all T3D's, using a valuable rig slot (used for damage application or tank - remembering it has also lost a mid) to help you run away faster really is quite a trade off. Well, you can't really fight if you become a wreck 'cause of gatecamp. Instawarp change was a subpar decision on CCPs part, it didn't make t3ds OP so should have been left untouched.
I can't fight you if you can a;ways insta-warp. Giving insta-warp was a poor choice in the first place. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
353
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:08:28 -
[70] - Quote
Well, it depends what part of space we are talking about.
If we are talking about 0.0 then bubble up - so your point becomes void. If we are talking about low - then yes to a degree you are correct but at the same time it could be argued that 1) if handful of ships can actually escape gatecamps in certain environment is not game breaking 2) it is a small stimulus for low-sec solo pvp. Furthermore insta-warp gimmick wasn't the thing that made t3ds overpowered, so it is strange seeing it removed.
Also, I take it you would be for changing Jack's velocity bonus to ab/mwd one and nerfing Hec because it was "poor choice in the first place"? |
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1486
|
Posted - 2017.01.23 14:41:55 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Moving a midslot to a lowslot on the Jackdaw. This is bound to be a fairly controversial change, and it was the last one added to the plan for this expansion. The intention here is to generally buff the Jackdaw by opening up more options for damage and mobility through the lowslot, while reducing some of the very extreme tanks. I'm very interested in hearing what the community thinks about this proposal, so please let us know if you have an opinion on either side.
I think this makes the ship much less interesting to fly and really dumbs it down. Yes you can add a damage mod or a mobility or fitting mod. This makes it allot like other t3ds instead of the unique ship that the extra mid but lower damage made it before.
As far as the other changes I see a trend you where you are making all the guns (hybrids projectile and lasers) more and more the same. You are even sort of making missiles more similar to guns with missile tds. It seems to me that your striving to try to make everything perfectly balanced is taking away allot of diversity in eve.
Finally, please stop making all these incredibly minor tweaks that really don't change much except destroy all the fits I made. I think your focus groups may be a bit harder core players than the rest of us. So for them having all their fits obsolete every 3 months may not be a big deal. But for the rest of us it can be a chore to keep up. (I know this last request is not going to be popular but sheesh 9/10s of my ship fittings are obsolete) Its true the module tiericide had allot to do with this but regardless its getting to be a full time job just to prepare some decent fits.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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