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GunnyP	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:08:00 - [1] So, I log in this morning to find my corporation wallet has 1,337 isk in it. ôEliteö unghà what a great way to start a morning. When I logged off we had over 1.2 billionà I checked the Corp hangers nextà empty. Four Battleship blueprintsà a rather large pile of mineralsà weaponsà ammoà etcà all gone. So, just what the F is going on here? How did this happen? The character that made the withdrawal is/was Rudi Voeller. He was created on December 18th. Somehow was accepted into the Corp on the 19th. Neither I nor any of my directors accepted him. Then this morning at 06:08 GMT he made his withdrawal. Rudi then left TTI. So how did he get in to TTI? He never applied and was never accepted officially by an active member. Whoever it is got in by one of two methods: 1. He key stroke hacked an existing director. It was not me, as I still have all my gear in my personal hanger and all of my isk. IÆve sent e-mails to my staff and asked them to check their accounts. I have also asked them to run an up-to-date virus scan on their computers. 2. There may be some other exploit that I am unaware of. I have filed a petition to CCP. I am asking for this thief to be tracked down and banned. I have also asked that our items and isk be returned. I understand that TTI has had a rather colorful past and that we have had our share of enemies. But this is over the top. Furthermore, why anyone would still want to be our enemy is beyond me. Since I have been CEO, TTI has been nothing but honorable and respectable. We mine our ore, build our ships and hunt Pirates from time to time. ItÆs a game and we have fun playing it. I would like to think that this attack is just for the isk or the RL cash. I mean 1.2 billion isk would fetch $2500 on e-bayà and you could get a pile for the items too.
Rhul	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:14:00 - [2] CCP supports this action. Expect nothing to be resolved. Only thing you'l' get here by announcing on the forums are trolls bashing you about corp security and those of character with sorrow for the lose.
KIAInkZ	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:18:00 - [3] If an account was hacked, then I'm sure the GM's will see you right. When we were hacked, they were nothing but helpful. It took a little time to get sorted, but it got sorted in the end. Good luck Gunny, let us know how it turns out. --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
Zarthan	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:22:00 - [4] Quote: CCP supports this action. Expect nothing to be resolved. Only thing you'l' get here by announcing on the forums are trolls bashing you about corp security and those of character with sorrow for the lose. Not true, ccp condones corp thieft via in game mechanics. Meaning you accept person A they gain your trust get access, and then take everything. CCP does NOT condone hacking to theif corps, i know of one such player that was ban for it and i'm sure others have been too. _______________________________________________________ Get custom sigs and graphics done here Unforgivn Website
Archa	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:23:00 - [5] hi gunny, sorry to hear this happening to tti, in my oppinion tti has always been a very smart corporation with bright people who easily adapt to the circumstances. but i do wonder why you post this on the forum. I remember a similar post a similar corp with a similar story. In the end it was a corp member that set it all up. Why not wait till ccp is done with the research and then start a flame war? greets archa
Lowery	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:24:00 - [6] It must say on the characters application who accepted him. Also can't you use the audit function on the corp screen to see who changed his privilages. If this stuff is missing then yes I think you have a case with CCP. Lowery/Hollborn 7th Space Cavalry
Cormyat Astara	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:25:00 - [7] I swear, if I was a CEO, I would keep 90% of the corp's assets in a pile of cash in my personal hangar. (Of course, then my account would probably get hacked.) CCP really needs to create a "high-security" hangar that requires two directors to be present at once with "keys" in order to take anything out of them. This has been suggested before, but the corp-theiving is really sickening, and it hurts CCP as well. If I had all my hard work borked by some idiot corp-thief, I'd find it real hard to want to keep playing. It's a friggin game...is it really worth it?
Mena Kumari	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:26:00 - [8] Corp theft is bad enough, but corp theft on this scale should not be tolerated by CCP. This is the kind of thing that leads to cancelled accounts and bad press - something this game needs like a hole in the head atm. Hope CCP bans Rudi Voeller's account and returns your stuff. BTW Rudi Voeller was a German soccer player. Do/did you have any German members in your Corp? Not accusing anyone but it could be something to think about.
Lowery	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:29:00 - [9] If this was done without hacking or anything like that then I think well done to Rudi. It's just part of the game. There must have been an insider though. Lowery/Hollborn 7th Space Cavalry
crice	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:30:00 - [10] That really sucks! Crice
Extravagant	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:39:00 - [11] Edited by: Extravagant on 24/12/2003 18:39:46 Where did you store your battleship BP's? Most corporations have them stored in hangars which only a limited number of people have access to, I am assuming TTI is no different. All in all, a bad situation for TTI. I hope you recover from this. ----------------------
Skillz	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:41:00 - [12] If it was within allowed game parameters, it's legitimate buisness (tm). Cry yourself a river. Keep on flaming, lamers.
KIAPieman	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:47:00 - [13] i hope that it was a hack gunny otherwise you wont get anything back. Good luck mate --------------------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:49:00 - [14] GunnyP, I'm sorry to hear this, you don't deserve it after your efforts to reform TTI since the Venal war. But you have to be very careful now in investigating this. The hiring of this "Rudi Voeller" chap must be logged as an action to one of your directors or people with personnel rights. And the access granting to the various hangers also. If someones account was hacked then they should very quickly notice that they are credited with an action they didn't take at a time when they were not on. Then CCP can cross check the access IP against the usual players details. Unfortunately. If the rat is one of your directors (who created an alt, okayed his own application, and then cleaned out the corp) ... the chances are the only word you will get from CCP is ... "it was done in-game and fairly". For your sake I hope its the former. Good luck GunnyP. (remember ultimately ... stuff is just stuff ... I am personally recovering from losing most of my money due to a corp thief, and to be honest, the game is still nice, and its a challenge having to earn a living without a stake again - skills are the important thing, and reputation of course). Love and peace JF Public Forum
Skillz	Posted - 2003.12.24 18:55:00 - [15] It's propably one of your directors that are defecting. Which is of course perfectly within game parameters. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Vegeta	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:04:00 - [16] oh u little newby thing, as former CEO i remember you can actually see who gave who what access and when, cant remember what its called but its somewhere there in the corp stuff. Now go there and check and you have your purpetrator. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Vegeta	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:06:00 - [17] Oh and btw my crystal balls tell me this thread is going to go beyond 10 pages. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
GunnyP	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:07:00 - [18] First of allà IÆm not crying a river for anyone. This is an unfortunate incident nothing more. The items and isk can all be replaced. This is just a game after all. If I remain silent about it however, some other Corp may suffer the same fate. My main goal is to get my items and isk back from CCP. My secondary goal is to raise awareness so that others may learn from this. When I took over I went through everyoneÆs hanger access and removed it all. I then renamed the hangers and gave out the permissions I wanted. We maintained the BPÆs in their own hanger and only 4 people had access to them. The minerals were in another hanger and everyone could see them, but not take anything out. Also, only 4 people had access to the Corp wallet. MarkA and I are the only 2 to have access to both. The other 2 for each were different people. Could someone have slipped through the *****s? Maybeà I had to go through all 180 members after all. But for someone to still be a director? I think notà I hope not at any rate. Soà the investigation continues. Rudi was accepted into the Corp by a char named Blaylock. Blaylock has never been seen by meà or anyone that is still in TTI. Blaylock left TTI last night. Funny though, as if you look up Blaylock nowà heÆs a char that was created last night and was never in TTI. CCP is being helpful, but they are thinking its an inside job so far. I will ofc keep you all updated. OH... BTW... Merry Christmas.
Lowery	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:12:00 - [19] This does seem very dodgy. I hope CCP refund all your missing stuff. Lowery/Hollborn 7th Space Cavalry
Vegeta	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:16:00 - [20] OH GOD WILL YOU THINK Blaylock has OBVIOUSLY been deleted and remade, so no trace. Probably the same thing with that Rudi guy. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
ColdFuzion	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:28:00 - [21] sends 1 isk to GunnyP
GunnyP	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:28:00 - [22] Quote: OH GOD WILL YOU THINK Blaylock has OBVIOUSLY been deleted and remade, so no trace. Probably the same thing with that Rudi guy. OFC the guy deleted Blaylock and created a new oneà IÆm not daft. But because he hasà I have no trace of him being in TTI. I have no idea how long he was in TTI or the possibility of finding out who accepted himà one of the current directors or someone from the past... or someone hacking the system? CCP doesnÆt even know due to a ôlog cleanup?ö All they know is that he was in TTI at one point and accepted Rudi. But this thread is not about flamesà IÆll wait until I have a lot more information before I post again. Merry Christmas
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2003.12.24 19:45:00 - [23] This is just my opinion, but, isin't it rather hard to keep track of 180 members and their "rights". It is obvious to most that tti has nowhere near that many members that are active. Before I joined evol, I was a ceo of a corp that was around 65-70 members. I made it policy that anyone I didn't see for a long while, was kicked, with a eve-mail explaining, telling to just rejoin if became active again. I looked at it as protection against those who could have sold acct's via e-bay or whatever. Hate to have a director who was afk 3mos log on and clean u out to set himself back up in game. Retaining inactive members on your roster has no benefit. Just my opinion. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
John Zeppe	Posted - 2003.12.24 20:05:00 - [24] Corp theft done the lame way. If people only could use their main chars, lamers.
Lockheed	Posted - 2003.12.24 20:08:00 - [25] Edited by: Lockheed on 24/12/2003 20:16:17 Quote: I swear, if I was a CEO, I would keep 90% of the corp's assets in a pile of cash in my personal hangar. (Of course, then my account would probably get hacked.) CCP really needs to create a "high-security" hangar that requires two directors to be present at once with "keys" in order to take anything out of them. This has been suggested before, but the corp-theiving is really sickening, and it hurts CCP as well. If I had all my hard work borked by some idiot corp-thief, I'd find it real hard to want to keep playing. It's a friggin game...is it really worth it? No offense to any1, but finally someone with a clue on security. Yes, ceo should have the majority of the key items and 90% of the isk in his own alt's hangar. Anyone that needs anything can wait until you get on. ________________ On a pale horse.
Thorsten Kabrinski	Posted - 2003.12.24 20:12:00 - [26] hm, this Blaylock guy has been sitting in y-4cfk for month now, I saw him there a few times....he never left station (at least not when we where outside )...I believe he is there since nva settled there hm....need a new sig :p
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2003.12.24 20:50:00 - [27] Cant you check your auditing? _______________________________________________
Gravedancer	Posted - 2003.12.24 20:52:00 - [28] go to the applications tab of the corp info and right click on it, it will show you who accepted the application into the corp. If it doesnt show anyone as having accepted it that would be something to take a screen shot of as it would be good indication of some hack into the EVE database. You need to do it soon though because if the character gets deleted its application gets removed (as you probably know). Another thing to look at is the EVEmails you (as CEO) should have gotten from the eve system showing A) when the person applied and B) when they were accepted and by whom.
Gravedancer	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:01:00 - [29] Quote: Rudi was accepted into the Corp by a char named Blaylock. Blaylock has never been seen by meà or anyone that is still in TTI. Blaylock left TTI last night. Funny though, as if you look up Blaylock nowà heÆs a char that was created last night and was never in TTI. Sounds like Blaylock was an old character with director priviladges that was missed. He probably created the alt Rudy or whatever, approved his own app, robbed the corp blind, and then deleted the blaylock character. Once the character was deleted, I would assume he could create a new character with the same name (in fact I know this to be true because my daughter messed up during character creation and deleted her character (waiting like 5 hours or something) and then created it again with the same name). That would explain why the character showed as a new character. All in all sounds like an inside job and not some uber hack. It does suck though. You can bet im double and triple checking everyones permissions when I get home even if it does take a while to go through 100 or so of them.
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:14:00 - [30] This is truly sad GunnyP enemies or not, this has nothing to do with gameplay, i really hope your stuff gets back. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
NeoMorph	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:16:00 - [31] God this really bites it... For things like this CCP should keep backups of corp acceptance and access and when someone deletes a char the info gets logged too. Using a flaw in CCP's database management system to hide the cookie trail is a clear and blatent abuse of the system. My corp recently merged with another corp who lost all their stuff to a corp thief. That's one reason why when I joined I insisted that there be only 2 people who have full access to the bps. It doesnt reduce the risk totally but it DOES limit it. Like someone said, they should allow us to create "SECURE" hangers that can only be withdrawn from when a specified number of directors give the go-ahead. It would stop corp thievery like this dead. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Mon Palae	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:22:00 - [32] Quote: Like someone said, they should allow us to create "SECURE" hangers that can only be withdrawn from when a specified number of directors give the go-ahead. It would stop corp thievery like this dead. Doesn't CCP want Corp thievery in teh game? Not hacks but legitimate scams done within the gameplay parameters? I am NOT condoning it. It is a brutal thing to have happen and the perp is as low as they come. I'm just wondering if you will ever get your 'secure' hangars as I doubt CCP wants those in-game.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:25:00 - [33] Even if a player with current and accepted hangar access created a character, gave it the required hangar access, stole all the gear, transferred it, deleted the character and recreated it after 5 hours, it still falls into the required category of "corp thievery through game mechanics". Tough luck, TTI, but I think you're stuck with the losses. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Max Delorian	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:46:00 - [34] Quote: This is just my opinion, but, isin't it rather hard to keep track of 180 members and their "rights". It is obvious to most that tti has nowhere near that many members that are active. Before I joined evol, I was a ceo of a corp that was around 65-70 members. I made it policy that anyone I didn't see for a long while, was kicked, with a eve-mail explaining, telling to just rejoin if became active again. I looked at it as protection against those who could have sold acct's via e-bay or whatever. Hate to have a director who was afk 3mos log on and clean u out to set himself back up in game. Yes we know that. Another thing we also know is that clearing out inactive players is bugged at the moment, requesting that the player be online. Therefore it would be impossible to do that anyway. ---------------- Came in like a mess, going out in style
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:50:00 - [35] Quote: Quote: This is just my opinion, but, isin't it rather hard to keep track of 180 members and their "rights". It is obvious to most that tti has nowhere near that many members that are active. Before I joined evol, I was a ceo of a corp that was around 65-70 members. I made it policy that anyone I didn't see for a long while, was kicked, with a eve-mail explaining, telling to just rejoin if became active again. I looked at it as protection against those who could have sold acct's via e-bay or whatever. Hate to have a director who was afk 3mos log on and clean u out to set himself back up in game. Yes we know that. Another thing we also know is that clearing out inactive players is bugged at the moment, requesting that the player be online. Therefore it would be impossible to do that anyway. Kicking people is bugged? eek, ccp that needs fixin asap. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Tigge91862	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:50:00 - [36] I've been with TTI long enough to know that not just anyone can be given director status. We have people dating back to beta who haven't heard of Blaylock. No posts on the TTI forums have been made by a 'Blaylock'. AFAIK, Ragnar was the only one with Director/CEO status back when he was in power, and only Gunny and MarkA have that status now. I mean, honestly, how could someone that noone has ever heard of get enough roles and grantable hangar access? I find the possibilities to be slim and none. And then for that person to be low enough to steal from the corp. Come on... This is just sickening. I mean, merry ******* christmas, eh? Wesley
Max Delorian	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:51:00 - [37] Nods Sucks doesnt it ---------------- Came in like a mess, going out in style
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.12.24 21:57:00 - [38] Quote: I've been with TTI long enough to know that not just anyone can be given director status. We have people dating back to beta who haven't heard of Blaylock. No posts on the TTI forums have been made by a 'Blaylock'. AFAIK, Ragnar was the only one with Director/CEO status back when he was in power, and only Gunny and MarkA have that status now. I mean, honestly, how could someone that noone has ever heard of get enough roles and grantable hangar access? I find the possibilities to be slim and none. And then for that person to be low enough to steal from the corp. Come on... This is just sickening. I mean, merry ***** christmas, eh? Wesley /emotelooks at your biomass cartel corporation notifier and then above at your post. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Tigge91862	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:13:00 - [39] lol, yeah, I know. We were friends back in the Venal conflict and I wanted to join for the PvP. But I am still good friends with the people in TTI. Wesley
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:25:00 - [40] "The Blaylock guy leaves aswell and the the char is deleted and a new Blaylock is made, showing no sings of being in TTI." ... Doesn't every character have their own unique ID, even if they happen to use name which was used by someone else before? So probably won't be as hard to track down as the thief might think...
ArcticWolf	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:32:00 - [41] Quote: ... Doesn't every character have their own unique ID, even if they happen to use name which was used by someone else before? So probably won't be as hard to track down as the thief might think... I think j0sephine is right..but where could they access that information, if he does not have an application to the corp in their corp menu...
kurg	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:34:00 - [42] Actually Ive always thought the alts were lame, and shouldnt be possible. They are only used for sneakyness that ought to be done by main chars, like chars being spies etc. We all know that 'some' people constantly log and relog to switch between chars to check if 'prey is coming'.. Its just lame. even the paranoid has real enemies...
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:36:00 - [43] Edited by: j0sephine on 24/12/2003 22:37:49 "but where could they access that information, if he does not have an application to the corp in their corp menu..." Depending how good the database search tools are... could be just a matter of query for characters deleted after the thievery, that have TTi in their employment history. o.o
Max Delorian	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:38:00 - [44] Edited by: Max Delorian on 24/12/2003 22:40:31 I'd have to agree with Kurg here, alts used for these purposes suck ass. But you can't get rid of the whole alt system, because some people use and train an alt to do things they can't with their main, not to mention for traders to 'plant' these alts at different regions to check the market across some of eve. But.. it doesnt matter who done it, why they did it, or how they did it... we got shafted, and that doesnt feel very good right before Christmas ---------------- Came in like a mess, going out in style
Eldariel	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:46:00 - [45] Edited by: Eldariel on 24/12/2003 22:47:12 Really sorry to hear this news guys ... Blaylock himself must have been accepted into the corp at one point - follow the rabbit (corp audit logs) and see how deep the hole goes would be my recommendation At some point you have to come across a name you recognise - then you can figure out whether it was a genuine external hack, or an internal job
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:46:00 - [46] It's always difficult in these situations to differentiate between a hack and a legitimate and well-planned corporate infiltration. If someone high up in the ranks decides they are no longer interested in being on "your side" they can take their sweet time planning and carrying out an elaboriate theft. Seems to me TTI has had a big "Target" on their backs for quite some time, politically and militarily. I would have thought they would have been much more careful with their assets. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Max Delorian	Posted - 2003.12.24 22:57:00 - [47] The thing is though, how careful is 'more careful'? How do you know when you are being careful enough? We had only 4 people that we knew of who had access to these resources, and only 2 of those people had access to both the cash and the goods, and they are the top two people in the organisation. There just comes a point where you shouldnt need to be that careful, where there should be an in-game system of authorisation for transaction requests by the CEO only maybe, I dunno. If there was a 20 man board of directors all with access to run free then yeah, its our own damned fault for being so stupid, especially at politically sensitive times. But thats not the case. The people in charge took every precaution to make sure, that at least if someone pilfered the cash we still had our resources. Im not gonna cry anymore about it, im just trying to point out that we werent being slack here, we were treating our assets with as much care, maybe more, than should be required. ---------------- Came in like a mess, going out in style
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.12.24 23:24:00 - [48] Max D. said: There just comes a point where you shouldnt need to be that careful, where there should be an in-game system of authorisation for transaction requests by the CEO only maybe, I dunno. Hey bro, you're preaching to the converted. I've been "campaigning" since my early days in the game for more methods of preventing and tracking corporate theft. I think it's ridiculous that in a corporation of multiple hundreds of people the only real way to ensure security is to simply deny everyone access to the goods. The "Employment History" feature is a step in the right direction, but it's definitely not sufficient in my opinion. I really hope CCP makes advances in this area as soon as possible. It pains me to think how many players EVE has lost due to being frustrated over corporate thievery. It's just too easy to pull off and too hard to prevent, period. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Fred0	Posted - 2003.12.24 23:30:00 - [49] Oh dear. My condolences. Hope you get it all back. To create an intricate web like that with alts just goes to show that we need better tools to sort the bad weed out. Until we get that it's hard to treat stuff like this as anything but exploits imho.
Athre	Posted - 2003.12.25 00:43:00 - [50] Wow! Sorry to hear about this Gunny :( The only recollection I have of Blay is trying to get my stuff out of 4-y at 2 am during the Venal trouble. Does the green dragon still have personel's records? Any clue what division these two may have been from?
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 00:47:00 - [51] After talking to GunnyP about this incident this morning I sat around and wondered who would do something like this. There are only four people in TTI who have that type of access and only two (Gunny and Mark) who can both accept members and have access to all the hangars. That kind of narrows it down. As a former TTI Director I've never heard of "Blaylock" and seriously doubt it was someone with access that wasn't revoked. I was asked to come back into TTI after Ragnars departure and know everyone who was to be a director personally. None of them was named "Blaylock". GunnyP has gone above and beyond in trying to maintain security in TTI. A couple of things happend here assuming this is a hack and not an inside job. 1) Due to the failure of CCP to institute the hangar wallets everyone has to keep the corp money in one big pot. The way its SUPPOSED to work is a CEO can allocate a certain amount of funds per hangar (look at the permissions youll see its there). Thus someone could take some but not all the money. 2) Applications are erased when someone quits a company. What is needed are logs showing who set permissions and approved applicants. In this case it would not only help to see who accepted this "Rudy" guy (it was this Blaylock) but WHO accepted Blaylock into TTI and when? Gunny said this was a pretty new character? Yet others report seeing him in NVA space for a month? Somethings fishy. 3) GunnyP - Your security logs that you can pull up in the corporate window should show who set permissions for Rudy. Follow them back (months if you have to) and see who approved Blaylock and gave him his CEO powers. I remember going thru the TTI roster ingame before I quit and I never saw anyone named Blaylock. This type of crime is pathetic. If this is indeed a "hack" and someone infiltrated TTI with a keylogging program I'd like to offer my assistance in making sure they are brought to justice. Despite the nature of this "game" this (if occured) is a CRIME in most countries if you keylogged and hacked into someones computer. As the certain perpetrator of the KIA hack was lucky to NOT find out you can go to jail for stuff like this. Likewise if this person stole that isk, inside game or not, and sells it on ebay (where 1.2 billion isk could fetch about $2500 US dollars) that is FELONY THEFT in most US states. I do hope your not in the United States. Game mechanics or not as we've read in past news articles internet gamers have sued AND WON civil actions for virtual goods. If you installed a keylogging program on someones computer and stole these items you can go to prison. Personally Im so fed up with jerks in Eve I'd be more then happy to help you prosecute these clowns. Enough is enough. This isn't the first time TTI has been victimized OOG like this. Back in the early part of the year we were victimized by a hacker who send HUNDREDS of email viruses to TTI executives causing real damage to computers, networks and email systems. This "person" was hunted down by the FBI and Sweeden's National Police Force after he failed to successfully mask his IP address. Sweedish police arrested him and he was sentenced to 17 months in prison. Over a GAME!!!!!!!! He found out computer crime in Sweeden is a serious offense. Having only three days left on my account (I hate Tech II agents and castor so I quit) I don't have a stake in Eve anymore. I will keep in contact with GunnyP though via email and if you do find out who did this, inside job or not, let me know and I'll "take care of it" like I did the guy in Sweeden. If this indeed was a crime it deserves to be publicized and prosecuted. Calladen Nimitz
Indigo Seqi	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:02:00 - [52] "I will keep in contact with GunnyP though via email and if you do find out who did this, inside job or not, let me know and I'll "take care of it" like I did the guy in Sweeden. If this indeed was a crime it deserves to be publicized and prosecuted." Eh?
Atandros	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:13:00 - [53] "I will keep in contact with GunnyP though via email and if you do find out who did this, inside job or not, let me know and I'll "take care of it" like I did the guy in Sweeden. If this indeed was a crime it deserves to be publicized and prosecuted." Damn, John Ashcroft plays Eve too.
Falzone	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:29:00 - [54] You won't get the items and isk back from ccp thats my guess as they didn't seem to care about my stuff when i was frauded in RL. But good luck honestly i do hope they give you back the stuff. First time i talked to them about my problem a gm said they would replace, the next one i talked said they wouldn't, then the next one said they would, then ultamitely they said they wouldn't. But good luck
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:30:00 - [55] Security Precautions:- 1- Allways keep your BP's in a secure container in your corp hanger (or a personal hanger) and only let the required people know the pass for it. 2- ISK can be kept in item form, so you can do the same for ISK as for BP's, keep them in a personal hanger or in a secure container (it is best to keep in item form due to the mix-up between your cash and corp cash). 3- If a director is away without contacting anyone for over 2 weeks, remove his/her access untill he/she comes back with a good explination. 4- Do not be over-ambitious in this game, if you trust someone too quickly it can be your downfall, rememmber, stealing ingame isnt a bannable offence. 5- Keep a good, up to date check of your logs, apoint trusted members as security officers to help you out, this could mean the differance between a corp surviving, or splitting. Hope this helps on some issues that people need to deal with, it will provide a 95% coverage to all security issues within a corp (5% being legitimate director defection). Regards ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Techie Zero	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:33:00 - [56] Gunny, Sorry to hear about this. I hope justice is done. EVE-I.com~THE Info source
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 01:34:00 - [57] No John Ashcroft doesn't play Eve. I'm not even a fan of his heavy handed tactics. In this case though if it can be proven this was a hack I believe the guy should be nailed to the outhouse door for all to see. The extent some people will go in a game to gain an advantage over people or just hurt them (like KIA) is pathetic.
Jubeli	Posted - 2003.12.25 02:01:00 - [58] Too bad that CCP can even think about not having this as bannable act.. Seriously if someone steals from corp and then delete the character(s) that is behind it then the reason for the theft should be harasment or something.. It is a whole other thing if the guy doesn't delete the character and remove all trace like that, then you can get even/get stuff back.. GunnyP I hope for TTI and for the game that this is solved in your favour.. else who will give ANY new member any access under 3 months? Merry Xmas to all of you too :)
Omron	Posted - 2003.12.25 03:29:00 - [59] Very sorry to hear about this TTI. I hope you recover your assets and can move on with the game.
Sabahl	Posted - 2003.12.25 03:30:00 - [60] If this was an exploit then fine, ban away is what I say. But if it turns out that this was due to negligence in any form by the directors, tough cookies! And negligence DOES include not knowing which of your corp members has access to what. Sorry guys, maybe I am being a bit harsh but I have some VERY strong views on how a corp should be locked down so as to sa***uard the assets, and therefore the time and effort, of the members.
Tyrenical	Posted - 2003.12.25 03:35:00 - [61] u might want to remember that only the ceo can appoint directors....... ....... ........... ......gunnyp
Athre	Posted - 2003.12.25 03:40:00 - [62] Thats why Gunnyp was checking EACH member file personally when he took over from Ragnar. Former TTI-KME employee
Tyrenical	Posted - 2003.12.25 03:49:00 - [63] this is obiously been going on for some time... i mean new ceo takes over, not too long after, everything just gets up and walks out
nails	Posted - 2003.12.25 04:24:00 - [64] I smell fish. If I'm very careful about our corps security I'm more than sure that TTi would be just as careful.. Hell even more so since they have much more than we do to protect. I'm sure CCP will do something to help investigate what happened here. TTi might not play the huge role they used to, they were still published in primas strategy guide :) that's gotta count for something. ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2003.12.25 05:10:00 - [65] This is in such bad taste it's off the chart, I'd rather see a thousand villain corporations such as TTI than one l33t one, begone M0o! Rudi Voeller is about the ***est german footballer there is but I bet even he'd be upset being tarnished in this way. Convert Stations
Ezra	Posted - 2003.12.25 05:35:00 - [66] Quote: Security Precautions:- 1- Allways keep your BP's in a secure container in your corp hanger (or a personal hanger) and only let the required people know the pass for it. Except that one of the key parts of the introduction of can anchoring is that cans are only secure when anchored. (Because people were making themselves "un-piratable" by putting invincible secure cans in their indies.) I agree with Calleden that the corp security measures in EVE are utter junk. The "Auditor" role is damn near useless. When are we going to get hangar access logs??? ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.12.25 06:02:00 - [67] Ouch! Sorry to hear about this... 1.2 bil and 4 battleship BPs is a big loss. One thing though, didn't TTI get ripped off by a director before? Is it possible this thief was a 'sleeper' alt left by the original thief? He could have: 1) Created an alt (Blaylock) and hired him with the ability to hire, grant hangar access, and grant Accountant access 2) Used Blaylock to hire the thief character (Rudi) and give him access to the wallet and hangars. Note: this does NOT require Rudi to be a director, so it would be easy to miss in a routine check 3) Removed Blaylock from the corp. Now there is no trail from Rudi to the original TTI member. 4) Wait until the corp is prosperous again, then rob you. If this is a hack, the person responsible needs to get the book thrown at him... but there's always a chance it was just an alt. Makes me glad Omnitrend is a private corp... we may be small but at least we all trust each other. I hope you get your stuff back.
Vegeta	Posted - 2003.12.25 08:13:00 - [68] After thinking about this a while ive come up with this theory: When TTi 'reformed' and you took over, is it not possible that Ragnar had his alt (Blaylock) join TTi, gave him director status and left him there as a sleeper awaiting his comeback to Eve. Now a couple of days ago Ragnar decides it is time to strike, he creates Rudi Voeller, has Blaylock accept Rudi into the corp, gives him the required access. He then takes the items and has his alts leave the corp. Now why would Ragnar do this now but not sooner? He wanted to wait until you were rich enough, until TTi had resettled somewhere. He is like a king kicked off his throne longing to come back. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2003.12.25 08:15:00 - [69] Well I for one know that TTI did a very extensive cleaning process of it's membership a couple of months ago. How effective it was I don't know. I do remember a Blaylock though. He posted once or twice on the old TTI forums... way back when. Wishing you guys luck though... it's still a crappy thing to do... Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
Old Hermit	Posted - 2003.12.25 09:22:00 - [70] Edited by: Old Hermit on 25/12/2003 09:23:13 Whine-whine My heart breaks for the baron robbers downfall. You got stuck by one of your own. Your witchhunt was conducted by those who are the most likely culprits. You drove out the staunchest, and most viable, members. And you wonder why one of your own bit you? Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. It wasn't one of your own. It was some "hacker" who logged in as one of your own. Ooops... and yeah right. To be quite honest I am sorry this happened to you Gunny but as far as I care TTI can go bugger itself.... as much as it used to like to bugger it's allies and corporate members. Click To Submit News
Machiavelli7	Posted - 2003.12.25 09:23:00 - [71] Good luck in recovering your assets, TTi. No corp deserves to be brought down by thievery. _________________________________
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2003.12.25 10:45:00 - [72] This is truly a sad satate of events Gunny. I think you have to consider the posiblity that it was one of those 4 that could grant access/had access though mate. This means you were crossed by someone you trusted and got along with. I hope you resolve the situation friend, and if you can't recover from it. Necro Reverend Necrona
Renox	Posted - 2003.12.25 10:48:00 - [73] I am sorry to hear what happend. Even if I left TTI a while back now, I always hope for the best for you lot. A shame something like this had to happen. No one deserves it and it's even worse to see it happen to my old friends in TTI. " While Celestial Apoc is filled with smack talking, safespot hugging, gate cudling, empire war exploiting
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2003.12.25 10:48:00 - [74] Quote: After thinking about this a while ive come up with this theory: When TTi 'reformed' and you took over, is it not possible that Ragnar had his alt (Blaylock) join TTi, gave him director status and left him there as a sleeper awaiting his comeback to Eve. Now a couple of days ago Ragnar decides it is time to strike, he creates Rudi Voeller, has Blaylock accept Rudi into the corp, gives him the required access. He then takes the items and has his alts leave the corp. Now why would Ragnar do this now but not sooner? He wanted to wait until you were rich enough, until TTi had resettled somewhere. He is like a king kicked off his throne longing to come back. It's not ragnar - i'll tell you why. a) he doesn't need $2500 in real life. b) he gave gunnyP all his asserts (a few billion) when he left eve. Reverend Necrona
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.25 10:58:00 - [75] What a way to get a nice christmas... what an *******. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Ardanwen	Posted - 2003.12.25 11:04:00 - [76] Do you get access to disabled accounts? I mean you did check all people in the corporation and reset their access but does that include disabled accounts? I would guess not because i know at least one individual who did not have his faction standings halved simply because his account was disabled when it was done, he rejoined eve after the castor patch. So i'm guessing that someone had directory access on a disabled account, then got re-enabled with all the access still intact and then decided to take it all.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.12.25 12:14:00 - [77] Hmmmmmmmm. Having read the above linkage all I can say is something smells.....fishy. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.25 13:39:00 - [78] To GunnyP Filing a petition about this is useless. This is not an exploit or a crime. The way Taggart has been run since the departure of Ragnar has been to great anger of many previous Taggart members. When Ragnar left, he gave Taggart and QLabs over 4 billion ISK. Managing now a property of barely 1 billion is very poor. You were removed of your assets. Deal with it. Of course the person that did this was very smart, seems he was too smart for you at this moment. I knew of this before it happened, but i saw no reason to inform you about it. And frankly, now that it has been done, it brings a smile on my face. Have a nice day.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.25 14:10:00 - [79] "You were removed of your assets. Deal with it. Of course the person that did this was very smart, seems he was too smart for you at this moment." Mhm, no real use to try to hide the person's identity as long as some ex-TTi members still approach their glorious ex-leader with the same attitude. ... on their knees. ;s
vf142rex	Posted - 2003.12.25 14:42:00 - [80] Edited by: vf142rex on 25/12/2003 17:27:45 Errr, that theory was proven wrong.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2003.12.25 15:48:00 - [81] Quote: Hmmmmmmmm. Having read the above linkage all I can say is something smells.....fishy. Yup... 'specially this part: Quote: Also I got a new watch... same watch that they gave to KGB agents. It's very cool... I think in order to keep it working I have to kill one capitalist every 24 hours. So Taggart is a good place for victims. Or maybe I just didn¦t read it right. Gunny you might want to check for german members too. Rudi Voeller trains the german national soccer team. So the guy who did it either is from germany or just picked the name for random reasons (which I somehow doubt). To be honest tho, in your position, I would¦ve left. Personally I think this whole TTI thing attracts way too many RL-freaks... and I mean... the real freaks... those you really don¦t want around yourself Mai's Idealog
IZON	Posted - 2003.12.25 17:15:00 - [82] Edited by: IZON on 25/12/2003 17:18:22 If it were a hack why stop at tti? My condolences to tti and Gunny, but this soooo smells like an inside job. Gunny you shouldn't be so quick to rule out your most trusted senior partners (past and present). After all, if tti were a RL blue chip company the SFO (Serious Fraud Office - UK) would immediately haul in the CEO's for questioning, and youÆd be suspect number one Gunny. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
kurg	Posted - 2003.12.25 17:46:00 - [83] Quote: You were removed of your assets. Deal with it. Of course the person that did this was very smart, seems he was too smart for you at this moment. I knew of this before it happened, but i saw no reason to inform you about it. And frankly, now that it has been done, it brings a smile on my face. Have a nice day. Hmm I think this is a stupid opinion, the use of alts and the deletion thereof has NOTHING to do with gameplay, and EVERYTHING to do with ABUSING holes in the game mechanics, and as such ought to be defined to be an exploit. If it is not deifned as susch by CCP I would think it has more to do with the trouble it would cause them fixing it than anything else.. Luckily Im not affected, but I still feel that it is lame. Sure I sometimes use an alt myself to go into dangerous areas, but alts are more often used for ridicelous things than actual gameplay, ie: alts used for spying (frequent relogs of certain chars is evidence of this), alts traveling in pods through tough NPC areas for scouting minerals etc. Its all C-R-A-P sorry but it is, and hoestly I think few people would miss it. even the paranoid has real enemies...
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 18:11:00 - [84] "You were removed of your assets. Deal with it. Of course the person that did this was very smart, seems he was too smart for you at this moment. I knew of this before it happened, but i saw no reason to inform you about it." You know Dagny when you (and I) were at TTI I recall we were all a little upset that some people (griefers) would go out of their way to ruin the game for others. These people have no care that people would get upset and quit (as many in TTI did) as their only goal was taking advantage of someone. TTI was designed as a real company. Unfortunately CCP totally screwed up the corporate functions (like stocks, hangars, wallets, blah blah blah) and was forced to waste MONTHS dealing with griefers who did stuff like pod newbies in 1.0 space and lag gates with cargo cans. I remember how many at TTI who were into the game for the economics were frustrated that the pvp griefers (not pirates by a long shot) so monopolized the developers time. You watched many people quit Eve altogether and many more are leaving after this latest patch again has NOTHING for the economic side of Eve and more then a few little nerfs to deal with the constant PvP exploits, complaints, arguments and unethical tactics. So I find it surprising that you would sit and gloat over the misfortune of the people in TTI now nor would you warn them that something like this would happen. You may be angry at GunnyP or Mark (leadership) but you surely realize that TTI is more then just those two people. What about the rank and file TTI member who works hard and expects to have some fun in Eve. Since you apparently know who did this I'd ask you to do the honorable thing and tell us who it was. If it was an inside job then so be it. They won't get anything back. If however it was some kind of exploit or anything else I'd like to see them banned. It's completely wrong to sit and gloat over someone elses misfortune, game or not, everyone here is a real person when it all comes down to it and comes here to have fun. If this game is supposed to be an escape from reality we sure don't need the real life axxholes here like we have in real life. People who do stuff like this may think its all game mechanics and stuff but they completely ignore the real-life consequences of what they do like other people having their fun ruined and quitting the game. Everyone should care about that. Calladen Nimitz (2 days to go)
Old Hermit	Posted - 2003.12.25 18:51:00 - [85] Edited by: Old Hermit on 25/12/2003 18:52:34 Quote: Calladen Nimitz (2 days to go) And none 2 soon, and I'll believe it when I see it. How many times does this make it? 243 "I'm quitting Eve" declarations? As for Gunny - Yeah feel sorry for him since he took a job in good faith. And that it was planned for him to be screwed over from the start. TTI, and many of those formerly of TTI, will always be that dirtiest and slimiest of the scum around. Proof in point - You've reached a high position in CFS. Scum always raises to the top. Peter principle don't you know. And of course your time at the top was half spent explpaining why you are leaving, again and again, and the other half on your knees to pirates in some penny ante "peace process" and "treaty forming". Like you could enforce such a thing. Sorry - TTI got what it deserved. As a company it screwed over it's own to get that money. I know, I was one of them. As for you, you are damned eloquent but a complete dweeb. And you have to jump in with your superior air whenever the opportunity presents itself. Basically you are a whiner and a slacker, you jumped ship on TTI (probably a good thing actually), and you've helped to lead the CFS into similar troubles that TTI had. ... ... ... darn it takes forever for two days to go by... ... ... Or for a Calladen to leave! Click To Submit News
Yoshokun	Posted - 2003.12.25 19:03:00 - [86] Edited by: Yoshokun on 25/12/2003 19:06:56 More info to come soon. Those currently experiencing a joyful bit of schadenfreude will be silenced soon enough.
Old Hermit	Posted - 2003.12.25 19:16:00 - [87] Oh wow... not just another yapping dog but one of the liar pack. Oh great and merciful Yoshi, the master of dancing something called the wiggly, wouldst thou not tell us now the spin, errrr, truth of the situation? Go back to spanking your monkey and stickying up the keyboards ok? Note: Yes, I hate Yoshi. So what... Click To Submit News
Skillz	Posted - 2003.12.25 19:19:00 - [88] Good old TTi arrogance led to being taken down a few notches by Killer Jade Constantine and this is step II. Eve is a game with PK and theft. If you don't like it, press unsubscribe. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.25 19:34:00 - [89] Quote: "You were removed of your assets. Deal with it. Of course the person that did this was very smart, seems he was too smart for you at this moment. I knew of this before it happened, but i saw no reason to inform you about it." You know Dagny when you (and I) were at TTI I recall we were all a little upset that some people (griefers) would go out of their way to ruin the game for others. These people have no care that people would get upset and quit (as many in TTI did) as their only goal was taking advantage of someone. TTI was designed as a real company. Unfortunately CCP totally screwed up the corporate functions (like stocks, hangars, wallets, blah blah blah) and was forced to waste MONTHS dealing with griefers who did stuff like pod newbies in 1.0 space and lag gates with cargo cans. I remember how many at TTI who were into the game for the economics were frustrated that the pvp griefers (not pirates by a long shot) so monopolized the developers time. You watched many people quit Eve altogether and many more are leaving after this latest patch again has NOTHING for the economic side of Eve and more then a few little nerfs to deal with the constant PvP exploits, complaints, arguments and unethical tactics. So I find it surprising that you would sit and gloat over the misfortune of the people in TTI now nor would you warn them that something like this would happen. You may be angry at GunnyP or Mark (leadership) but you surely realize that TTI is more then just those two people. What about the rank and file TTI member who works hard and expects to have some fun in Eve. Since you apparently know who did this I'd ask you to do the honorable thing and tell us who it was. If it was an inside job then so be it. They won't get anything back. If however it was some kind of exploit or anything else I'd like to see them banned. It's completely wrong to sit and gloat over someone elses misfortune, game or not, everyone here is a real person when it all comes down to it and comes here to have fun. If this game is supposed to be an escape from reality we sure don't need the real life axxholes here like we have in real life. People who do stuff like this may think its all game mechanics and stuff but they completely ignore the real-life consequences of what they do like other people having their fun ruined and quitting the game. Everyone should care about that. Calladen Nimitz (2 days to go) Yes calladen, we were pretty upset at people using combinations that were instagibs. I have never referred to being disgusted over corp thievery or any other matters of that sort.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 19:55:00 - [90] Like I said Dagny. I expected better. But from what I've found out since I guess I'll rephrase that. I might remind you to that just because there is a line between Polaris and ingame activities Polaris people aren't supposed to use exploits nor are they supposed to violate the EULA by paying someone for access to their account to rip it off. Just an observation. Calladen Nimitz
Atandros	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:03:00 - [91] If someone goes to such lengths to do something like that over ingame stuff... hands Calladen a box of rusty nails and a hammer
Stavros	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:05:00 - [92] Edited by: Stavros on 25/12/2003 20:21:24 Calladen you fit the definition of griefer the best. You think that your play style is the only one that matters and you would gladly see anyone who pvp'ed at all removed from eve, just to allow you to carry on in your own convoluted little world. And I fail to see how u 'dealt' with us so called 'griefers' as you so hypocritcally label us, never once did we get attacked by TTi and the only time u guys tried to buy us out, you let down your end of the bargain. SO I fail to see how it took months out of your schedule. Hurry up and quit already... Merry xmas! Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
vf142rex	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:06:00 - [93] Is it possible that a thread about TTI will be under 10 pages,,,ever? Next thing you know, someones gonna bring up the magic hat...oops
Cao Cao	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:34:00 - [94] GunnyP, If I weren't a pirate I would apply to join TTi. I am a big Ayn Rand fan, and Atlas Shrugged is one of my top 5 books of all-time. Not to mention that every TTi member I have ever dealt with in-game has been nothing but a very honorable, outstanding person. Corp theft makes me sick. I can't ******* believe it came to you guys, I REALLY hope that you get everything returned. It would truly be a shame if a person who so obviously hacked his way into your corporate wallet and hangars were able to get away with it.
Fargas	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:35:00 - [95] This thread began good and have turned into some sort of .. TTI-ish. This is a game. It's not life. If you have taken this game so seriously that you in fact even consider applying real life social conducts on people within the context called Tranquility, you're way off. This is a game. A fiction. Fantasy. A make up story created by you and me and everyone else. If you do not like a certain type of style in this makeup fantasyworld, then try and avoid it and you'll be fine. If you cannot tolerate it at all, just leave the game entirely. Yes. It's bad when people rip off other people. If there was no OOC means how they managed to rip off TTI, then everything is within the boundaries of the game. If not, let CCP handle it and go on play the game THE WAY YOU WANT. But don't get yourself on a high horse and look down on anyone else not playing it like you. (Sorry for spelling and gramma.)
Ly'sol	Posted - 2003.12.25 20:56:00 - [96] GunnyP Theft is a unfortunate risk we all take in working as a team for different goals. Unfortunately sometimes idividual needs for status and greed steps in front of the team. I have heard a lot of good about TTI reform and such and I hope for your expeditant recovery and possibly catching your would be thief. It would be nice if there were things like VIN numbers on blueprints and such -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:44:00 - [97] "You think that your play style is the only one that matters and you would gladly see anyone who pvp'ed at all removed from eve, just to allow you to carry on in your own convoluted little world." Oh by the way Stavros. My "play style" doesnt affect anyone else. On the contrary I'd say some who demands that everyone is subject to THEIR playstyle and having their game "ruined" (like you for instance) is the real griefer. If you want PvP so much why dont you fight Evolution or SA or any of those other alliances? Why do we see m0o sitting CFS space podding people in indys? Your not pirates you dont hold them up. You just blow them up. Some things dont change with time do they?
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:45:00 - [98] Stavros, We all remember m0o podding newbies in 1.0 space after the GM's broke up your little cargo can exploit session with improperly stacked modules in Mara/Passari. You then ADMITED to using these exploit modules on the board but "claimed" to be "exposing the game mechanic errors". Oh so honorable I can hardly stand it its enough to make someone puke. m0o's history of griefing and using exploits is very well documented so don't even bother going there you lose that argument. I have no problem with PvP in Eve. I have no problem with "pirates" in Eve. I have a real problem with axxholes like xxx who run around thinking up new ways to exploit game mechanics and monopolize the developers time trying to come up with nerfs and patches. You blame the carebears for all these patches? Try blaming yourself. Its the immature behavior of griefers who have led to the rash of patches and nerfs and the huge delay in high level content. If you clowns had learned to behave and be "pirates" instead of psycho serial killers we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you clowns could just figure out how to behave we wouldn't have the situation we have today. If CCP had done their job and BANNED the exploiters and griefers early on we'd have just "honest pirates" like the BOX says instead of SOCIAL MISFITS taking out their real life inadequacies in a video game. If m0o had just been pirates and held people up in the early stages we wouldn't have had all the outrage and those God-awful patches early on that exiled you to 0.0 space. You blame carebears? Blame yourself. You did it to yourself. As for how I dealt with you and the griefers early on I wrote several letters ALL OF WHICH WERE REPLIED TO by various executives at CCP and Simon and Schuster complaining about griefers. You don't think it helped? Look at those early patches buddy. It helped alot having your sorry tails kicked out of empire space so you'd stop griefing people who wanted to play Eve for the 100 reasons other then PvP. So my own little convoluted world is one where I say LEAVE ME THE FXXK ALONE AXXHOLE and let me play in peace. If you want PvP so bad fight other people who want it also. I find it incredibily amazing that all these PvP people seem so focused on fighting people who DONT WANT TO FIGHT. They're kind of like bullies in real life who pick on the smallest target. Yep your a real man Stavros. Fargas, you think its "dumb" to apply real life standards to a game? Well tell me this what kind of person in a game would take the hard earned assets other people have built up then mock them for it? Sounds like a loser to me. People don't seem to realize some people put alot of time into Eve and "believe" in the game. I used to be like that but to be honest with all the axxhole griefers running around in "wars" harrassing people and smack-talking like ten year olds in chat channels have really opened my eyes to one thing. If this is supposed to be a game and fun why should we have to deal with axxholes ingame who are probably just that way in real life too? As for this corp theft it looks like an inside job "sort of". It looks like someone sold someone else access to their account so they could rip off TTI. If that is the case it is clearly out of game (selling accounts is against the EULA thus selling access to accounts is also a violation). If it turns out that person is also in Polaris or a GM and did this I would expect them to be tossed and banned. Just as Polaris people have been kicked out of the program for trolling on the boards there is a "line" they aren't supposed to cross. If what is believed to have happend did actually happen theres some real problems with credibility to be addressed. Ah that felt good. Two days left and I get to rant about the jerks in Eve. The real shame is about 98% of the people who play this game are fine upstanding people. Its the 2% that have caused all the problems time and time again. Calladen
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:46:00 - [99] Ayn Rand is a pompous fool and the laughing stock of modern philosophy. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:46:00 - [100] Ayn Rand is a pompous fool and the laughing stock of modern philosophy. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Fredrick Barbarosa	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:54:00 - [101] Calladen needs a chill pill
Old Hermit	Posted - 2003.12.25 21:58:00 - [102] 2 days and counting... Click To Submit News
Fargas	Posted - 2003.12.25 22:10:00 - [103] Edited by: Fargas on 25/12/2003 22:12:29 Quote: Fargas, you think its "dumb" to apply real life standards to a game? Well tell me this what kind of person in a game would take the hard earned assets other people have built up then mock them for it? Sounds like a loser to me. People don't seem to realize some people put alot of time into Eve and "believe" in the game. I used to be like that but to be honest with all the axxhole griefers running around in "wars" harrassing people and smack-talking like ten year olds in chat channels have really opened my eyes to one thing. If this is supposed to be a game and fun why should we have to deal with axxholes ingame who are probably just that way in real life too? Yes. As I stated, my opinion in this matter is: It's a dumb move to apply real world values into a FICTIONAL WORLD that are to be taken place 24000 years ahead of real life. I cannot say it anymore clear than this: The context of EVE has nothing todo with real world as of today. Nothing. If it IS within the game mechanics, there is no case. If there are someone that are willing to make a move by actually robbing someone else blind, let them. It's within the context of the game. Nondepending if you put your entire life into creating something within EVE, it is still not an excuse NOT to be on the losers end in such events. Your decision to spend the time on something fictional and no one elses. You have to make sure this will not happen to you. That's what you can do. If you don't want to risk it, don't do it. If you don't like having pirates around A2-V2? Don't go there. Stay in Empire space and be safe, rely on someone else to supply you with valuable ore. That's what you can do except arranging the removal of the pilots you don't want to see around where you travel. Two options, your choice. And by the way, you can put pilots on the ignorelist. And selling an account is legit according to the updated EULA. Kindly, Fargas
Lomex	Posted - 2003.12.25 22:46:00 - [104] Selling an account (Full account) is provided for by the EULA given certain conditions. Selling access to an account would count as a partial sale, or rental of the account. That is against the EULA which is a legally binding contract between player and CCP. Bannable offence if proved. Difficult to do so though. ___________________________________________ Join in the NEW Sci-Fi Quiz
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:01:00 - [105] Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 25/12/2003 23:12:58 "If it IS within the game mechanics, there is no case. " If it IS I'll agre with you. But what if someone paid you to allow them to access YOUR account Fargas so they could clean out a corp you had a member in? Is that "game mechanics" or not? That looks like a partial sale of the account and a violation of the EULA to me. Now imagine for a moment the person involved is a high ranking Polaris member or CCP person. I know for a FACT that GunnyP has already been advised to be careful about exposing to much: <GunnyP> if you did not have director access to tti.. then how did you know how much was in the corp wallet prior to the theft? <XXXXX> from the guy that took it. <XXXXX> or let me rephrase <XXXXX> from the player that took it. <XXXXX> however, i understnad this is bad for you and .. well too bad i dont feel sorry. <XXXXX> however! <XXXXX> i would step -very- carefully with what information you post on the boards that goes way 'past' the player character. <GunnyP> are you threating me? <XXXXX> i'm trying to save you trouble. <GunnyP> well. thank you Could it be a high ranking person either in CCP or Polaris is threatening a player who plans to expose the existence of a thief? Could it be that one of CCP's trusted violated that trust by violating the EULA, paying off another player to access his account as a "trusted friend" just to rip it off? Then we have the person who rented the account saying he was "stunned at the theft". He claims he didn't know anything about the theft and has already paid GunnyP a big chunk of change (what he colleted for access) but nowhere near what was stolen. This is clearly OUT OF GAME to access someone ELSES account like this whether with permission or not. In addition to that CCP has completely failed at corp security as you can't even delete someone who isn't online. Despite having gone thru the entire TTI membership roster online ingame and deleting everyones access its very "strange" that someone would regain access and that someone could possibly be related to CCP in some way? If so what really happend with that players access? All of this is just hypothetical of course but chatlogs tell alot. All it says in this case is someone with a grudge against TTI VIOLATED THE EULA by accessing someone elses account after paying them off to steal all thier assets. I would expect CCP to return them and ban BOTH offenders. Calladen Nimitz
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:11:00 - [106] I'll define my statement so everyone knows exactly what I mean. CCP says ingame corp theft is ok. You shouldn't trust people. I can live with that. So Player A joins a corp and moves up to Director. Hes trusted, they know him, everything is great. Now lets say Player B is a real life friend of Player A. Player B hates Player A's corp and used to be a member. So one day Player B offers Player A a bribe to let him log onto Player A's account (as Player A) to "spy". Player A goes along and says "sure". The next day Player A's corp is cleaned out. Its found that Player A's character had approved an alt to join, cleaned everything out, then split and deleted himself. Now according to some thats fair but its not. You see Player A (the one the corp members trusted) isn't the thief - only his character is. The actual Player A didn't do it. So the arguments about "letting people into the corp" are moot because Player B was never let into the corp. He bought access to Player A's account. So it is OUT OF GAME. Calladen Nimitz
WhiteK	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:20:00 - [107] Hi calladen! You sir are the definition of carebear, your also a fine exemple of the trash thats killing the mmorpg industry. Allow me to pull your head out of your ass an enlighten you on a couple of points: The exact same CCP execs you sent letters too crying like an 8 year old girl about how the bad pk podded you, are also the people who RAN A FREAKING PK CREW back in UO. Where not talking about pvp'ers, were talking miner killing, newbie griefing, powergaming mofos whose tag alone would make all the little carebears cry and rant on the forums, much like yourself. Campion? Remeber him? Old school member of The Cabal, yet another old UO guild, who guess what, also PK'ED LIKE FREAKING CANCER. To actually take time from ones life to write to some freaking game devs sobbing about how you got PK only shows how truly sad your life must be. And im sure the devs were laughing their asses off as they wrote you back saying "yes yes we are aware of the problem, excuse me while i take your money to the bank" In fact little man, eve didint set out to be a mining simulator, It set out to be a pvp game, with a pk element well implemented. Never was this game intended to be another neon loot whoring game, where carebears would sprout like mushrooms and be free to roam around and collect the useless binary code they call loot. Unfortunaly, people like yourself have no life. So you whine on the forums, send letters, make petitions, sob like small children, and harass developers until you change the game to suit what you think is the correct model. and whats the end result? A pussfied version of eve. Were non consentual pvp happens only in a tiny corner of the universe and everyone is free to farm their money and repeat the same boring ass treadmill until you press the cancel button. It sucks, its pathetic, and we have you to thank for. http://www.the-combine.com/
Lagar	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:47:00 - [108] pillage....
Lord Zap	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:47:00 - [109] Quote: Stavros, We all remember m0o podding newbies in 1.0 space after the GM's broke up your little cargo can exploit session with improperly stacked modules in Mara/Passari. You then ADMITED to using these exploit modules on the board but "claimed" to be "exposing the game mechanic errors". Oh so honorable I can hardly stand it its enough to make someone puke. m0o's history of griefing and using exploits is very well documented so don't even bother going there you lose that argument. I have no problem with PvP in Eve. I have no problem with "pirates" in Eve. I have a real problem with axxholes like xxx who run around thinking up new ways to exploit game mechanics and monopolize the developers time trying to come up with nerfs and patches. You blame the carebears for all these patches? Try blaming yourself. Its the immature behavior of griefers who have led to the rash of patches and nerfs and the huge delay in high level content. If you clowns had learned to behave and be "pirates" instead of psycho serial killers we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you clowns could just figure out how to behave we wouldn't have the situation we have today. If CCP had done their job and BANNED the exploiters and griefers early on we'd have just "honest pirates" like the BOX says instead of SOCIAL MISFITS taking out their real life inadequacies in a video game. If m0o had just been pirates and held people up in the early stages we wouldn't have had all the outrage and those God-awful patches early on that exiled you to 0.0 space. You blame carebears? Blame yourself. You did it to yourself. As for how I dealt with you and the griefers early on I wrote several letters ALL OF WHICH WERE REPLIED TO by various executives at CCP and Simon and Schuster complaining about griefers. You don't think it helped? Look at those early patches buddy. It helped alot having your sorry tails kicked out of empire space so you'd stop griefing people who wanted to play Eve for the 100 reasons other then PvP. So my own little convoluted world is one where I say LEAVE ME THE FXXK ALONE AXXHOLE and let me play in peace. If you want PvP so bad fight other people who want it also. I find it incredibily amazing that all these PvP people seem so focused on fighting people who DONT WANT TO FIGHT. They're kind of like bullies in real life who pick on the smallest target. Yep your a real man Stavros. Fargas, you think its "dumb" to apply real life standards to a game? Well tell me this what kind of person in a game would take the hard earned assets other people have built up then mock them for it? Sounds like a loser to me. People don't seem to realize some people put alot of time into Eve and "believe" in the game. I used to be like that but to be honest with all the axxhole griefers running around in "wars" harrassing people and smack-talking like ten year olds in chat channels have really opened my eyes to one thing. If this is supposed to be a game and fun why should we have to deal with axxholes ingame who are probably just that way in real life too? As for this corp theft it looks like an inside job "sort of". It looks like someone sold someone else access to their account so they could rip off TTI. If that is the case it is clearly out of game (selling accounts is against the EULA thus selling access to accounts is also a violation). If it turns out that person is also in Polaris or a GM and did this I would expect them to be tossed and banned. Just as Polaris people have been kicked out of the program for trolling on the boards there is a "line" they aren't supposed to cross. If what is believed to have happend did actually happen theres some real problems with credibility to be addressed. Ah that felt good. Two days left and I get to rant about the jerks in Eve. The real shame is about 98% of the people who play this game are fine upstanding people. Its the 2% that have caused all the problems time and time again. Calladen SCRUB!
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:50:00 - [110] Edited by: j0sephine on 26/12/2003 00:05:11 "Now imagine for a moment the person involved is a high ranking Polaris member or CCP person. I know for a FACT that GunnyP has already been advised to be careful about exposing to much: (..) <XXXXX> i would step -very- carefully with what information you post on the boards that goes way 'past' the player character. (..) Could it be a high ranking person either in CCP or Polaris is threatening a player who plans to expose the existence of a thief?" ... It could also be a simple case of good advice -- you should know very well by now, whatever speculations concerning Polaris and CCP you might have and post here, they will be quoted as facts dozens posts down the road, doing nothing good to game reputation. So if they are indeed nothing but your own speculation, simply leave them out. "Then we have the person who rented the account saying he was "stunned at the theft". He claims he didn't know anything about the theft and has already paid GunnyP a big chunk of change (what he colleted for access) but nowhere near what was stolen." Anyone giving director's access to someone else for money and not aware what it's going to be used for, must have no brains whatsoever. So either you have the case of big corporation making such brainless person their director... or the person in question is making extra buck in their spare time selling seaside properties in AZ. Take a pick which is more likely. :s "This is clearly OUT OF GAME to access someone ELSES account like this whether with permission or not." I see nothing clear about it, to be honest. You appear to rely on the information provided by person directly involved in the theft, form your conclusions from it and post them as facts. What if --instead of the convoluted scenario you present-- they're simply lying about the whole thing?
Steini OFSI	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:51:00 - [111] bummer
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.12.25 23:59:00 - [112] To those who I advised not to get involved in this thread: "I told you so." To everyone else - don't get involved in this thread.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 00:01:00 - [113] Life must be terribly disappointing for you, Calladen, to find out repeatedly not everyone wants to be your friend. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2003.12.26 00:13:00 - [114] Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 26/12/2003 00:14:33 Well this entire thread makes me feel sick. The community of eve is a twisted one. Give it a rest Calladen mate, it's not worth it fella. Reverend Necrona
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 00:27:00 - [115] "So if they are indeed nothing but your own speculation, simply leave them out." Who said it was speculation? I'm not speculating at all. If someone paid someone to access thier account and did this its a violation of the EULA. If that someone is a member of Polaris maybe CCP needs to look at who they have working for them. Maybe a little housecleaning is in order reputation or not. If they have people doing stuff like this can we really trust them to NOT use information they may gleen from being associated with CCP to thier own advantage? An honest question. Jash, I have plenty of real life friends. Theyre the kind of people who really give a damn about other people. So even in a game they realize people can and are hurt by crap like this. People who worked hard at TTI to build something only to have it stolen by some pathetic individual who doesnt even have the common decency to post his REAL INGAME NAME here. Instead he used some pathetic alt to rip off TTI. For those who know who this person is and knew they were going to do this your just as pathetic. If you happen to be in Polaris for example and knew someone would payoff someone to access their account and rip off TTI you've completely tossed out the EULA your supposed to uphold as a Polaris volunteer. So whats the deal? WhiteK. If you dont have the guts to post under a real name and not some brand new alt maybe you need to get a life. I'm here with my name for all to see taking the heat. Your nothing but a forum troll. If you have something to say about my posts, posts which will be shown correct when everything is exposed, please have the common decency to use your real character. Calladen
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.26 00:29:00 - [116] Edited by: DREAMWORKS on 26/12/2003 00:30:12 IRL and ingame theft is pathetic, it shows you have no spine and must leech on others like a parasite to surfive. Luckily i have the right IRL to let my dogs in my own house to tear people into pieces who violate my privacy and don't respect my assets. But how can you fight an ingame "crime" that can never be traced, and there are no dogs who protect your assets and items. Some people here act like its only a game, but some of these items has been "worked" for. They show no compassion, and as shown in the case of Falzone they will be the ones crying out the loudest possible way if they get robbed. I can only pray that these people get robbed of all their assets, that some day they get some arse log onto their accounts, transfer all their items or destroy it and then delete the character and recreate a new one... It's just a mather of patience i gues. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.26 00:52:00 - [117] "Who said it was speculation?" You did: "Now imagine for a moment the person involved is a high ranking Polaris member or CCP person (..)" "All of this is just hypothetical of course but chatlogs tell alot."
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:13:00 - [118] Quote: ... Jash, I have plenty of real life friends. Theyre the kind of people who really give a damn about other people. So even in a game they realize people can and are hurt by crap like this. People who worked hard at TTI to build something only to have it stolen by some pathetic individual who doesnt even have the common decency to post his REAL INGAME NAME here. Instead he used some pathetic alt to rip off TTI. Calladen, I have all the friends I want in life. I do not go looking for more friends than I already have. So every new friend I gain is a surprise. I do not go about expecting cooperation from others unless required by the circumstances. So those that refuse to cooperate do not disappoint me and those that do, without any onus to do so, make life more pleasant. Everything about you and the speeches you have given says the opposite. You expect people to coorperate with you. To work with you towards a common goal in harmony. To be your friend. Why in God's name you picked up a game built entirely around physical, political and economic PvP I haven't a clue. But... Life must be terribly disappointing for you, Calladen, to find out repeatedly not everyone wants to be your friend. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:15:00 - [119] This is sad. I'll end discussing this matter with the following: I have never violated any EULA to gather information about TTI. If, as some of the TTI people suspect, i would had robbed them off, i sure as glue on a stick would not break the EULA to do so. Dagny -kos because of knowing too much.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:20:00 - [120] Quite the contrary Jash. I just expect people to respect one another. I'm not the type of person for example who would go out of his way to totally screw up someones gaming experience. I wont sit and pod newbies in 1.0 space for example. I wont clean out a corp wallet because I know real people worked for that "play money" and it would hurt them. I guess I'm just guilty of being a human being. Game or not. Being a common thief is just plain wrong. CCP needs to publically brand these people AND ALL THEIR ALTS so we can see who the "thief" is in Eve. Just as we have WANTED across the face of wanted people I'd like to see THIEF across ALL characters of a corp thief. If theyre so proud of what theyve done they should have the guts to just come out and admit it instead of hiding behind alts and a Polaris nametag. BTW Josephine, dump the "hypothetical". It did happen that way and I'll be interested to see if CCP cans this thread and my posts in a coverup instead of coming clean about what one of their own did. Calladen Nimitz
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:26:00 - [121] Dagny, OK thats good. Then I'm sure you wont mind if you ARE the person who ripped off TTI if the certain former TTI member whom you paid off to access his account would publically show us all his wallet so we could see WHO paid him to give them access? Likewise if you did do this I would expect you to not be a coward and just come out and admit it instead of hiding. Come out and tell us all why you did this and why your so proud of yourself. I mean being a common thief. Hey thats something to aspire too. If it was you of course. I recall a couple of months ago a Polaris member was fired because they were posting "in character - regular" on the Eve forums and slamming carebears and trolling and the like. So even though that had nothing to do with Polaris they dumped the person. That leads me to believe that even Polaris has some rules against unethical conduct ingame. Unethical like paying someone off to use their account to rip off a corp? Calladen Nimitz
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:32:00 - [122] Quote: Quite the contrary Jash. I just expect people to respect one another. I'm not the type of person for example who would go out of his way to totally screw up someones gaming experience. I wont sit and pod newbies in 1.0 space for example. I wont clean out a corp wallet because I know real people worked for that "play money" and it would hurt them. I guess I'm just guilty of being a human being. Game or not. Being a common thief is just plain wrong. CCP needs to publically brand these people AND ALL THEIR ALTS so we can see who the "thief" is in Eve. Just as we have WANTED across the face of wanted people I'd like to see THIEF across ALL characters of a corp thief. If theyre so proud of what theyve done they should have the guts to just come out and admit it instead of hiding behind alts and a Polaris nametag. BTW Josephine, dump the "hypothetical". It did happen that way and I'll be interested to see if CCP cans this thread and my posts in a coverup instead of coming clean about what one of their own did. Calladen Nimitz I won't say what you are. It violates a few of the forum rules. My issue here is being tired of people attempting to shove their morality down the throats of others. So please spare me the speeches from the Moral High Ground. Spare me the accusations that you cannot prove. Spare me the libel. Just spare me. Attempting to enforce morality causes this game more harm than good. Just as it does the real world. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:35:00 - [123] Edited by: Dagny on 26/12/2003 01:36:21 Actually, being addressed like this means i have to keep replying. (edit). Quote: Dagny, OK thats good. Then I'm sure you wont mind if you ARE the person who ripped off TTI if the certain former TTI member whom you paid off to access his account would publically show us all his wallet so we could see WHO paid him to give them access? Likewise if you did do this I would expect you to not be a coward and just come out and admit it instead of hiding. Come out and tell us all why you did this and why your so proud of yourself. I mean being a common thief. Hey thats something to aspire too. If it was you of course. I recall a couple of months ago a Polaris member was fired because they were posting "in character - regular" on the Eve forums and slamming carebears and trolling and the like. So even though that had nothing to do with Polaris they dumped the person. That leads me to believe that even Polaris has some rules against unethical conduct ingame. Unethical like paying someone off to use their account to rip off a corp? Calladen Nimitz Go right ahead. You want a copy of my wallet too? It's around 240 million now. Only output the last two days is buying stuff agent wants,and only input is stuff sold off the market (meaning SCC improved goods).
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:54:00 - [124] No Dagny I dont want a view of your wallet. The Dagny I knew was a good and honorable person. I'll settle for you saying "I nor none of my alts had anything to do with this". If you say that I'll trust you. I would also like you to reveal who did do it then since you know about it. Why would you protect a common thief? Calladen
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 01:57:00 - [125] "I won't say what you are. It violates a few of the forum rules. My issue here is being tired of people attempting to shove their morality down the throats of others." Im not trying to do that Jash. Im just stating where I stand on the issue of honesty and trust. If you don't stand on the "high ground" and feel uncomfortable with someone saying they do it seems you are the one with the problem. By the way your application to join Libertas last month was rejected. I was a little surprised to see it in the corp tab. No one is forcing morality on anyone. But likewise there is nothing wrong with taking the high ground and expressing disgust and dismay at those who dont. If this is just a game why does that bother you so much? Calladen
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 02:13:00 - [126] Quote: "I won't say what you are. It violates a few of the forum rules. My issue here is being tired of people attempting to shove their morality down the throats of others." Im not trying to do that Jash. Im just stating where I stand on the issue of honesty and trust. If you don't stand on the "high ground" and feel uncomfortable with someone saying they do it seems you are the one with the problem. I'm quite comfortable with my balance between Saint and Sinner as it stands. I'm one of those people that realizes more evil has been done in the name of good than good itself. Usually by those who find it necessary to browbeat others with how 'moral' they are. Quote: By the way your application to join Libertas last month was rejected. I was a little surprised to see it in the corp tab. Try checking the spelling and race of who applied. I have a doppleganger. Nice to see you're observant enough to confuse an Amarrian Jash Illiam with a Minmatar Jash Illian Quote: No one is forcing morality on anyone. But likewise there is nothing wrong with taking the high ground and expressing disgust and dismay at those who dont. If this is just a game why does that bother you so much? Calladen What bothers me in this game is what bothers me about any game that has a strong PvP element and the moralists begin 'expressing their disgust'. They screw up the game worse than the people they're disgusted by. Trying to force others to fight 'honorably' and 'fair' through mechanics usually ends up pooching things for everyone. Quote: Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest... Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. I can trust a pirate to be a pirate. Worse he can do is destroy me when it's least profitable for me. I can never trust what stupidity a honest man is capable of. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.26 02:14:00 - [127] "I nor none of my alts had anything to do with this, except knowing in advance." And no, i wont tell who it was.
Agent Shield	Posted - 2003.12.26 02:25:00 - [128] An IN-GAME 'character' stole from an IN-GAME 'corporation'; all is fine in this world and a part of Eve. It doesn't matter what real person was behind the account or character; the character IN-GAME was the one who did it. Agent Shield
Chuffer	Posted - 2003.12.26 02:38:00 - [129] Playboy got robbed, techell got robbed, many other corps have been robbed. Like it or not its part of the game, if CEO's took better care of their assets it would never happen. Just like ore theifs & scammers only peoples stupidity allows them to profit in this game. Either rebuild and learn from your mistakes or quit. Crying on this forum, while providing some entertainment for the bystanders, makes you look like a bunch of crying fools.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:12:00 - [130] OK Dagny thanks for clearing that up. If your willing to protect a common thief I guess the Eve community at large will decide how to treat you in the future. As for me I guess I'm just disappointed. Calladen
Dagny	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:14:00 - [131] Quote: OK Dagny thanks for clearing that up. If your willing to protect a common thief I guess the Eve community at large will decide how to treat you in the future. As for me I guess I'm just disappointed. Calladen No one is forcing morality on anyone.
Lord Zap	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:22:00 - [132] Quote: Quote: ... Jash, I have plenty of real life friends. Theyre the kind of people who really give a damn about other people. So even in a game they realize people can and are hurt by crap like this. People who worked hard at TTI to build something only to have it stolen by some pathetic individual who doesnt even have the common decency to post his REAL INGAME NAME here. Instead he used some pathetic alt to rip off TTI. Calladen, I have all the friends I want in life. I do not go looking for more friends than I already have. So every new friend I gain is a surprise. I do not go about expecting cooperation from others unless required by the circumstances. So those that refuse to cooperate do not disappoint me and those that do, without any onus to do so, make life more pleasant. Everything about you and the speeches you have given says the opposite. You expect people to coorperate with you. To work with you towards a common goal in harmony. To be your friend. Why in God's name you picked up a game built entirely around physical, political and economic PvP I haven't a clue. But... Life must be terribly disappointing for you, Calladen, to find out repeatedly not everyone wants to be your friend. Jash is so cool
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:22:00 - [133] I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but one is used to that by now. If it wasn't TTI then no one would have argued against u Calladen. Reverend Necrona
Fargas	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:48:00 - [134] Thanks for saving my day. The last pages on this thread is hilariously funny. Oh and one more thing. Repeat after me please. T h i s i s j u s t a g a m e .
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.26 03:50:00 - [135] Nah thats a load of old tosh at this stage Tehel. TTI is no different now from any other corp. GunnyP pretty successfully repackaged TTI away from Ragnar-era arrogance and monomania. This thread has evoked a lot of venom sure, but its tinged with the acid taste of internal betrayal (which it is beginning to sound like). Inside job from a director or someone doing something dodgy with lending accounts is grim of course, but not really account hacking... It sucks for honest players trying to help out Gunny and Mark in making taggart a viable corp again, but its probably valid (if sucky) play. On the swansong of mr Nimitz, well, he and I always disagreed on the PVP nature of Eve. I, for example, believe passionately in the essential chance for non-consensual pvp anywhere in the setting. I think corporations should have to factor in military reality into their planning and economic schemes. But, I do believe the Empire / Lawless space division should mean something. And it shouldn't be viable or profitable for a combat corp to consistantly gank (without war dec) a target organisation in empire space. Single hits and assasinations and hit and run ... sure. But no large scale mass ganking ops. But the game rules have to be introduced to make this all pretty much watertight and foolproof. History shows that the naughtiest players in eve are the best at exploiting loopholes. Longterm I hope that Empire does turn into a place that Caladen dreamed it might be, ie, a haven for industrialists and peaceful players. While 0.0 should be the wild frontier and a place for brigands and heroes and the rise and fall of empires. Eve the game needs both realities. Trying to promote one at the exclusion of the other seems against all the fundimental paradigms and expectations of the game. Love and peace JF Public Forum
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 04:09:00 - [136] Quote: I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but one is used to that by now. If it wasn't TTI then no one would have argued against u Calladen. Oddly enough if I chose to grind old axes, there's one in my closet with your corp's name on it much bigger than TTi's. Based on what I observed without the coloring of other people's conjectures and manipulations, there was nothing substantial for me to like nor dislike TTi. Great website, nice try at a corporate ethic, some pure genius in economic movements. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Black Roger	Posted - 2003.12.26 04:35:00 - [137] Taggart Transimensional, Sorry to hear about your loss guys. I hope you recover soon. A close friends corporation was ripped off too. CCP should make some serious changes or it wouldn't surprise me if they aren't sued soon for their lack of controls. The real life ammount of money that is stolen here is just plain crazy. I'm sure I won't be flamed for this comment. That would be a violation of the forum rules after all.
Madcap Magician	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:10:00 - [138] I can't believe you'd have to dig through this entire thread but here's an idea: Why not check the Chaos server for your employment and auditing histories? Granted, it would probably not be accepted due to the info being kept on a seperate machine, but it might help you get on with the game. Respectfully, Good times will always be remembered. Sleep well, old friends.
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:25:00 - [139] Jade: You mean hit and die missions, surely? _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:30:00 - [140] Edited by: j0sephine on 26/12/2003 05:51:40 "Why not check the Chaos server for your employment and auditing histories?" ... Well, that's one of those "D'oh!" moments for sure. Apparently it neither didn't occur to Mr.Blaylock, seeing how he forgot to delete his original character from Chaos server... :s (would be a member of TTi for 7 months and 19 days as of today, btw... quite a sleeper, huh? ;)
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:39:00 - [141] Quote: "Why not check the Chaos server for your employment and auditing histories?" ... Well, that's one of those "D'oh!" moments for sure. Apparently it neither didn't occur to Mr.Blaylock, seeing how he forgot to delete his original character from Chaos server... :s Waitwaitwait! They can't do that! Using such an investigative method would be outside the game! Chaos isn't part of the Tranquility universe. Hmm...wonder if that will cause a minor moral dilemna for Mr. Nimitz I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:43:00 - [142] Jade, Your exactly right about my view of what empire space is supposed to be like. If the griefers (or gankers as you called them) had jsut behaved in the beginning we'd have never had all the patches and problems we have now. But when you have people podding newbies in 1.0 space, lagging people out with cargo cans and mining drones and using improperly stacked modules (exploits) and combine that with a game company who lets it all go (CCP) I guess this is what you get. Sadly there is a group of players who think Eve is only about PvP and nothing else. Eventually they will be all thats left and they can kill each other. I know my old corp is leaving enmass (all four of us) and several other people have emailed me about other games that dont have the problems Eve does. Oh I'm sure Eve will get along fine. There are enough dysfunctional unethical people in the world to play games and take sick pleasure in causing other people pain so Eve will do just fine. Imagine maybe in a few years it'll be a game of 5000 people like Tank CEO and Lord Zap. Now theres a group of quality ethical people who really care about other people! By the way they checked the logs on Choas and know who did this. I'll leave that for GunnyP to reveal as I'm down to one day after midnight. I'm sure so many of you who were expressing how nice it will be for me to go will throw a party so knock yourselves out. After all we see Eve in all the stores, advertised in magazines and TV and see hundreds of new players a month coming into the game right? Whats a few more carebears leaving going to do? You get your wish. Calladen
Ikeiron Saito	Posted - 2003.12.26 05:46:00 - [143] If anyone here has actually read Atlas Shrugged, then you will make the resounding connections to the events in the book, and all the events that have taken place here at Taggart Transdimensional. "If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders - what would you tell him to do?" "I... don't know. What... could he do? What would you tell him?" "To shrug."
Earl Dumarest	Posted - 2003.12.26 06:04:00 - [144] What really amazes me is not the theft of the assets, or the venom and bile produced in discussing this topic, but the fact that I wasted 30 minutes reading all 8 pages. Talk about an exciting Xmas.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2003.12.26 06:13:00 - [145] Quote: Jade: You mean hit and die missions, surely? Well here's the thing; I think Concord Insta-gank response sucks the big one. I really really want to see a graded response from concord that clamps down on repeated violence in system but that does allow single acts of hostility to be committed with a realistic chance of the perpetrator escaping. Why shouldn't a vessel loaded for bear a chance at hitting a soft target and slipping away in the confusion while police congregate on the crime spot? The system should then be flagged as a trouble spot and extra policed, and future hostility from the criminal should be more noticable from the police. But what this game really needs is a fuzzier logic for handling limited violence. JF Public Forum
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.12.26 06:23:00 - [146] Dagny, I wanted to apologize to you publically for ripping on you. It was wrong to drag Polaris into a personal dispute and I'm sorry. I trust your word when you say you didnt do this corp theft - your word has always been good to me. I hope you can tell the real people at TTI who had their efforts ripped away who did this. No common thief should be protected and I'm sure you'll do the honorable thing and reveal who it is. Best wishes to everyone and a Merry Christmas. Calladen
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2003.12.26 06:28:00 - [147] CN: you claimed you found out who it was on Chaos so stop prolonging this farce and reveal the culprit yourself !! MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Skillz	Posted - 2003.12.26 07:01:00 - [148] Veruna, don't dis-respect Ayn Rand. Communist idiot. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Skillz	Posted - 2003.12.26 07:09:00 - [149] Being a common theif is not wrong, it's a legitimate buisness. Keep on flaming, lamers.
Atandros	Posted - 2003.12.26 08:05:00 - [150] Quote: Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 26/12/2003 00:14:33 Well this entire thread makes me feel sick. The community of eve is a twisted one. Yeah.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.12.26 11:10:00 - [151] Who wants to bet that all CEO's are now checking all acconts for access and priviledges? I'm betting the sleeperthief is Ragnar as an insurance policy for his not-so-glorious return. 10 isk, anyone? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

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