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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Humwawa
Thats what I am talking about - player A steals from Player B wth no risk...
It's not stealing because it's not yours to begin with. The key here isn't "risk" it's "effort". For their time and effort they get the salvage, for yours you get the loot, bounties, standings, mission rewards *and* the salvage if you really want it badly enough.
Risk has little to do with it in high sec missions, for them or you. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Humwawa
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:59:00 -
[32]
If wreckage has no ownership why does my avatar show up on the wreck as if it belonged to me like a can or whatever - just curious
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:07:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 18/04/2007 19:04:10
Originally by: Humwawa If wreckage has no ownership why does my avatar show up on the wreck as if it belonged to me like a can or whatever - just curious
I don't actually know, and I doubt you're actually curious, but my guess is it's either a code limitation (because the wreck contains both your stuff and just plain stuff); or that it's to protect you from people just shooting your wrecks and destroying everything to mess with you; or that it's an oversight.
Feel free to bug report it if it bothers you. :) * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:12:00 -
[34]
its the shooting it bit that CCP were interested in
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Annuke
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:35:00 -
[35]
signed...If the wreck has your name on it, you should get kill rights if someone not in gang or corp salvage's it.
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Petrothian Tong
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:49:00 -
[36]
well, you can scream and cry as much as you want, but this is intended.....
after all they CHANGED it so that you dont have to loot (and the loot drop in a can that belongs to owner. but if you mess with the can, you get aggro...) to salvage..
yeah.... CCP intended salvaging be a mini profession. that anyone can do... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
Marquis Dean
Indigo Fade
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:05:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Annuke signed...If the wreck has your name on it, you should get kill rights if someone not in gang or corp salvage's it.
But the wreck doesn't have the victors name on it... read the thread before you post please.
--- Indigo Fade is now selling jumpclones for superb prices, please see Marquis Dean's bio and/or evemail/convo him ingame.
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Annuke
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:24:00 -
[38]
well..either way...you should get concorded/killrights on you for salvaging someone elses wreck. I have nothing more to say on this.
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Covenn
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:45:00 -
[39]
N00b Question:
How do you Salvage wrecks ?
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:57:00 -
[40]
salvaging skills
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Rali Redclaw
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Posted - 2007.04.18 22:32:00 -
[41]
Back on topic.
You guys are thinking of it in out-of-game context.
In the game world, what is a wreck? It is a piece of worthless junk, a ruined ship cast aside. Why would CONCORD spend their time to defend destroyed ships? It only has value because CCP created a new skill for salvaging so it is possibly valuable to YOU.
Ship cargo is different in that it is still intact and thusly has value to the original owner.
If you're so concerned with your wrecks, clean them up while you're on the mission.
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.04.18 23:18:00 -
[42]
hmmm why are wrecks you kill white, and wrecks from other players yellow then?
well anyways i think its time to go learn how to probe and to buy some scan probes and do some ninja looting
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.18 23:41:00 -
[43]
when insular solo game players are forced to face other players either in friendly or hostile circumstances they tend to yell and scream just like this thread
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:24:00 -
[44]
Oh dear,, break out the old kleenex.
Wrecks are white and yellow so you know what you can take loot from, and is an accomodation for cargo containers. It's like how it was originally implemented,, there was still white and yellow cans, but all wrecks were white, which obviously made no sense coz you couldn't tell whose wrecks you could loot from.
Wrecks are wrecks are wrecks, and can and should be salvaged by anybody. Why should joe bloggs be criminally flagged for salvaging something which jane doe *can't* salvage, thus the skill requirements for salvaging. As someone pointed out, ninja salvaging is a legitimate trade, and working exactly the way CCP would like, and the way most players like.
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Humwawa
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:59:00 -
[45]
My opinion is as I said - I killed the ship and so I should have looting right on the WHOLE SHIP
This has nothing to do with high-sec,low sec or 0,0
What I find wrong is that "the thief" or "not thief" or whatever gets protected by concord.
Would be nice if we could get an official statement on this IF its intended OR not.
If it is - so be it. I will and must live with it.
Obviously if an opinion is not liked here one is either accused of whining or ones words are turned around in ones mouth.
End of discussion from my point of view Have a nice day
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WhitePhantom
Gallente Edenists
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Posted - 2007.04.19 03:23:00 -
[46]
If your worried about ninja salvaging the wreck, salvage the wreck first, you could also go into deadspace ( you after you complete the missions those 20 ships you left behind ) and get the exact same modules.
Salvaging should NOT be a criminal act, wrecks should NOT have an owner ( only the loot inside should be flagged towards a person ). There are 10 different things you could do ( have somebody with you to salvage the wreck ) is another example.
If people are in the same area, go to another location, there is alot of unused space all with rats.
I will repeat, there is almost no difference between what you get from rats and the mission npcs that you don't salvage most likely.
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.19 04:03:00 -
[47]
All I can input into this discussion is that it is no more unfair than many mundane laws that exist today.
The Concord Law is this:
Quote:
1. A person loses all rights to the ownership of their ship in any space if it is disabled beyond the ability to fight and navigate. In this case it officially becomes a wreck.
2. Wrecks can be salvaged by anyone to procure plates, parts, materials from it excluding:
Cargo, Functioning, Weaponry, munitions, and any other upgrades that have registered Blueprints in existence. The rights to salvage these items are awarded to the person or corporate entity this person has assigned their rights to. Anyone breaking this covenant, even in the event of unclaimed salvage are deemed to be committing and act of unlawful theft and are not covered by the Concord Security Agreement.
All unregistered items or non-functioning items are not covered by this law and are "fair game" for General Salvage.
3.In the case that general salvage enters into the cargohold or cargo container of a person, it ceases to be General Salvage and becomes classified as Cargo and is subjected to normal laws as stated above.
Note I did NOT quote this from any official source but it is the effect of how the system works. I have seen such clauses in Various parts of General Insurance and Maritime related legislation in my lifetime and 'yes' they do seem to defy logic. I saw one that said all brass fittings, engines and engine bearings (?!? aren't they like in the engine?!?) belong to the original owner of a wrecked vessel, but not the hull, fittings and fixtures. Personal effects remained the property of the crew but the cargo became subject to weird stuff about insurance companies and recovery fees and other madness.
So, in my opinion the weirdness is actually very sustainable as a legal model for salvaging. I don;t like it but life is full of such things.
Another possible reason CCP might have made salvage this way is that it would reduce the amount of objects in some of the busier systems therefore acting to reduce lag.
As I think that CCP should write a News story on the way salvage works and make the laws part of the Eve backstory. It is a colourful and illogical development and in my opinion adds depth to the game.
So I hope a dev or mod notices my post and turns this complaint into an opportunity.
Mik
AUSSIE AND KIWI EVE Fansite |
Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.19 05:13:00 -
[48]
the OP still hasnt decided to join a group of mission runners ( having one dedicated salvage and looter go in behind) to reduce what someone else might get
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Danjira Ryuujin
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Posted - 2007.04.19 06:57:00 -
[49]
Salvaging the wreck of a ship that you didn't blow up should definitely give a criminal flag. This doesn't mean that salvaging is not a viable profession. It just means its a little bit shadier, which honestly I think is cool. I imagine being a full time salvager would be very profitable, and as such it should indeed involve risk.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente Edenists
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Posted - 2007.04.19 07:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Salvaging the wreck of a ship that you didn't blow up should definitely give a criminal flag. This doesn't mean that salvaging is not a viable profession. It just means its a little bit shadier, which honestly I think is cool. I imagine being a full time salvager would be very profitable, and as such it should indeed involve risk.
If a wreck it exists, it means the person doesn't want it, otherwise THEY would salvage it.
If you destroid the ship your closest to the wreck, no reason you can't begin to salvage itas soon as its destroid.
If your in the public, ther are 10 other people, guess what you can skin a corpse in other mmrpgs also.
This is exactly like skinning.
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Humwawa
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Posted - 2007.04.19 08:23:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Humwawa on 19/04/2007 08:23:29
Originally by: WhitePhantom
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Salvaging the wreck of a ship that you didn't blow up should definitely give a criminal flag. This doesn't mean that salvaging is not a viable profession. It just means its a little bit shadier, which honestly I think is cool. I imagine being a full time salvager would be very profitable, and as such it should indeed involve risk.
If a wreck it exists, it means the person doesn't want it, otherwise THEY would salvage it.
If you destroid the ship your closest to the wreck, no reason you can't begin to salvage itas soon as its destroid.
If your in the public, ther are 10 other people, guess what you can skin a corpse in other mmrpgs also.
This is exactly like skinning.
If someone skins the corpse of the monster I just killed in UO without talking to me first I kill him. To be more concrete: In Trammel (highsec)you cant skin corpses you have no lootright on for about 11 min - In Felucca you can - As I said - I kill him if he does so without talking to me first.
Taking from above poster:If a wreck it exists, it means the person doesn't want it, otherwise THEY would salvage it.
Give me a chance please ;) I still had 8 BS firing at me while this person was allready happily looting the wrecks I had created seconds ago.
A possibility would be to have a timer like a poster further up mentioned (that was one of the few constructive answers..)
Whatever happens I lie it into the hands of the ccp-gods - An official statement would still be nice. Greetings Humwawa Edit: Give me a chance please ;) I still had 8 BS firing at me while this person was allready happily looting the wrecks I had created seconds ago.
I meant salvaging,my mistake
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.19 08:37:00 -
[52]
ccp gods have already spoken its implemented as is. This is UO or WOW. Not even PVP orientated not an exploits devs stated this is how they wanted it loot ( falgged) salvaging (no flag)
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Humwawa
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Posted - 2007.04.19 08:44:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Callthetruth ccp gods have already spoken its implemented as is. This is UO or WOW. Not even PVP orientated not an exploits devs stated this is how they wanted it loot ( falgged) salvaging (no flag)
Have you a link by the hand where the statement is? Cant remember hearing the statement in patchnotes etc - might have missed it somehow. Greetings Humwawa
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.04.19 09:11:00 -
[54]
one of the devblogs to do with invention+salvaging either last patch or one before
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pandymen
Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.19 09:43:00 -
[55]
Seeing as how CCP is such a small company, I find it interesting that at least 5 of there employees seem to have posted in this thread using alts. How could they otherwise know what CCP intended or what the "quoted" concord law is. Please guys, stop with the flamebait, this is ridiculous.
No one knows for sure if this is how CCP intended. All that you know is that is how the game is right now. It may or may not be changed in the future. Considering this is only since the last patch and there have been no mentions of it in the devblog to my knowledge, this could easily have been intended for other reasons than to create a new profession for salvagers.
No one knows yet, and I'm pretty sure i'm right in saying that because so far, I have yet to see a link to any sort of actual CCP statement. See what happens during the next update, and just hope that the devs comment on this.
However, I will mention that I enjoy the fact that you can now ninja salvage. If you want to salvage, do it the first time around or go directly after completing your objective. If you can't be bothered, then salvage can't be that important to you. If that is even a problem, go to a lower populated system. But for those of you that I actually agree with, please don't go around pretending you know about something you clearly don't. State your opinion as opinion, not fact.
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Demonarc
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Posted - 2007.04.19 10:33:00 -
[56]
From what I remember, this was requested a while ago to clear up newbie grounds and whatnot of wrecks.
How many new players have the Salvaging skill? The wrecks were staying around for too long as nobody could salvage them without looting them, and thus getting flagged.
Okay, I think it's bad play for someone to sit in a belt watching you rat, and then going and salvaging your wrecks whilst you're still fighting, but I do agree with the new system.
If it happened to me i'd ask them to stop since I do intend on slavaging the wreck. If they don't stop, i'll stop feeding them wrecks and let the rats attack them and return the favour.
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Darqion Zenix
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Posted - 2007.04.19 10:50:00 -
[57]
then make a timer after which they become free to salvage ? thats a problem solved
its MY wreck, and i decide what i vallue loot. how is a bunch of fried computer parts less mine then the whole computer sitting next to it ?
the only reason that could be there is indeed people werent cleaning them, and having wrecks flag Free for all, after a certain ammount of time would still make that happen
i hear left and right eve is "all about pvp, everything leads to it" well.. not if people can savely take what I USED AMMO ON to kill. maybe i dont even WANT the loot but the salvage, and by no logical way is something busted less mine then something whole.
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Humwawa
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Posted - 2007.04.19 11:57:00 -
[58]
Yes a timer is a solution - Otherwise they pop anyway after an hour - Absolutley dont see the difference between a can and a wreck.If you would get flagged - are the "ninja-salvagers" scared of getting flagged?
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.19 16:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Anaalys is completely right. Wreakage having no inherent ownership is one of the keys to making rigs more module-like in price, like intended.
That wreck has my Corp tag on it, punk, it belongs to my Corp. I give this a week or three before its corrected. Enjoy until then.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
Vaethal
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Posted - 2007.04.19 16:52:00 -
[60]
To all those who say wreckage has no inherent ownership. This is completely false.
To support this I would submit as evidence Tractor Beams.
When I attempt to tractor in a wreck that was not killed by me I get a message saying that the item does not belong to me. This is an ingame message that appears on my screen.
Therefore, if the item in question does not belong to me and I am not allowed to interact with said object it becomes an illegal action to do so.
The message received from tractoring a wreck that is not mine is the same as when I attempt to tractor a cargo canister that is not mine. The game clearly identifies it as not belonging to me.
If CCP is allowing wrecks to be interacted with on some levels with no criminal sanctions they will need to define this further because they have applied a rather piecemeal legality to the whole affair.
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