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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:12:00 -
[1]
It has gotten to the point that almost every other ship traveling through 0.0 has some sort of cloaking device, whether it be a t1 frig with a prototype cloak or a covops. I think it should be harder for cloakers, warping to a ss and cloaking should not be an "I win button", and there should be more advantages for a t2 cloak. A 90m t2 covops cloak should give you much more advantage than a 2m t1 prototype.
T1 vs T2
T1 Drawbacks
- 200% reduction for chance of being found by scan probes. (Reduces chances drastically, but allows for a determined and skilled prober to find you over time.
- Warp systems calibration. ON top of the time required to recalibrate your sensors it should require time to recalibrate your navigation computer. This will make it so that people cant align while cloaked, then warp off almost instantly after uncloaking.
T2 Enhancements.
- Ability to use 'ship scanner' and 'cargo scanner' while cloaked. Sadly these mods are pretty much unused, and having knowing what your enemy is using could be of great tactical value.
- No T1 penalties, cannot be found by scan probes, no warp calibration
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Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:15:00 -
[2]
Uhhh Id say the fact that the t2 covops lets you warp while cloaked is a pretty damn big advantage. The only thing t1 is useful for is hiding, and thats at the expense of being useful in combat (due to super nerfed sigres).
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
 Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Hazkr Rwzk
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:15:00 -
[3]
how is a cloak a i-win its more of a u dont win button. ethier way cloaking is fine and not every last aspect of the game has to be changed into a game you feel is better.
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Suze Krystal
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:24:00 -
[4]
Let the clock be as it is. T2 have allways had the advantage that you can warp cloaked. And with t1 you can't? When did this not be a different?
Originally by: ghosttr
A 90m t2 covops cloak should give you much more advantage than a 2m t1 prototype.
When the clock came into the game it cost 15 mill... Are you T2 Clockers better then mine? Well since you bought the for 90 mill... there gotta be something one them that are better.. 
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warpod
Amarr
Pact Of Honour
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:26:00 -
[5]
Leave the cloaking alone. It works just fine now.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:33:00 -
[6]
Cloaks are currently a 'I-win' button for hiding in any system, and like any other thing in game they need a counter.
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Suze Krystal
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:37:00 -
[7]
Just say it, you want more targets to shoot on in 0.0 :) Therefore you want the cloak nerfed too.
Everyone have a hidden agenda and I think this is yours
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Suze Krystal
Just say it, you want more targets to shoot on in 0.0 :) Therefore you want the cloak nerfed too.
Everyone have a hidden agenda and I think this is yours
I am very open and honest about my agendas thank you very much.
-----
Griffin -- 100,000 ISK
ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK
Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK
War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
warpod
Amarr
Pact Of Honour
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ghosttr
Cloaks are currently a 'I-win' button for hiding in any system, and like any other thing in game they need a counter.
Just have a good interceptor, so when target jumps in and cloaks ceptor moves nearby and decloaks it. Problem solved.
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ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: warpod
Originally by: ghosttr
Cloaks are currently a 'I-win' button for hiding in any system, and like any other thing in game they need a counter.
Just have a good interceptor, so when target jumps in and cloaks ceptor moves nearby and decloaks it. Problem solved.
Problem is that unless you gatecamp 23/7 you wont even see the guy come in. And once hes safespotted he is impossible to find.
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warpod
Amarr
Pact Of Honour
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ghosttr
Originally by: warpod
Originally by: ghosttr
Cloaks are currently a 'I-win' button for hiding in any system, and like any other thing in game they need a counter.
Just have a good interceptor, so when target jumps in and cloaks ceptor moves nearby and decloaks it. Problem solved.
Problem is that unless you gatecamp 23/7 you wont even see the guy come in. And once hes safespotted he is impossible to find.
You can't catch smart guy by probing even if he has no cloak. He will be jumping from one SS to another.
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Shiraz Merlot
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:11:00 -
[12]
covops cloaks are well under 40m now.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ghosttr
Problem is that unless you gatecamp 23/7 you wont even see the guy come in. And once hes safespotted he is impossible to find.
You say it as if that automatically means there is a problem and it needs to be changed.
------------------
"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Varrakk
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:16:00 -
[14]
This was a natural responce to the WCS nerf.
Everyone knew it would happen.
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Sikozu Prioris
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:20:00 -
[15]
For starters if you are paying 90m for a covert ops clocking device, you've been scammed 
They cost under 40m now.
Also covert ops clocks can only be fitted to covert ops ships, meaning that although the ship can fly around undected (if the pilot aint stupid at gate camps), they cant really do much.
And how is it a "I-win" button??? They cant do bugger all sitting in a safe spot clocked. If you are too chicken to go about your everyday stuff, stop crying for a nerf on the forums. IT AINT GUNNA HAPPEN
UFO - Unidentified flowing orifice
Its the only plausible explination |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:25:00 -
[16]
Honestly, a covops clock just keeps time stealthily, a T1 clock rings at every hour.
-----
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warpod
Amarr
Pact Of Honour
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jex Jast
Honestly, a covops clock just keeps time stealthily, a T1 clock rings at every hour.
Officer's clock is waterproof and shock-resistant
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:50:00 -
[18]
Lol, feeling the pressure Frege?
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Inquisitor Berthez
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 10:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Inquisitor Berthez on 18/04/2007 10:51:41
Originally by: ghosttr
Cloaks are currently a 'I-win' button for hiding in any system, and like any other thing in game they need a counter.
IMO cloaks are a counter for the OMGWTFBUBBLEGUMGATECAMPBLOBBAGE. Don't nerf something because someone can outrun you. Not everyone wants to be involved in combat every frigging minute.
Originally by: warpod
Just have a good interceptor, so when target jumps in and cloaks ceptor moves nearby and decloaks it. Problem solved.
This is your counter, right there, and effective too. It really is a sport to outmanouver a ceptor in a cloaked industrial
.
Ö |
Verton
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Posted - 2007.04.18 11:00:00 -
[20]
Leave cloaking alone. It works the way it's intended. IMHO if your cloaked you should not be visible on a scanner.
/*Verton*/
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Dark Flare
Caldari
Corpus PCG
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:00:00 -
[21]
Cloaking is fine. If it's a Covops, he can't hurt you, if it's not, the guy can't warp cloaked. So get your gatecamp to slowboat to his last known position with drones out, boom uncloaked.
Dark Flare - Corpus PCG |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ghosttr
It has gotten to the point that almost every other ship traveling through 0.0 has some sort of cloaking device, whether it be a t1 frig with a prototype cloak or a covops. I think it should be harder for cloakers, warping to a ss and cloaking should not be an "I win button", and there should be more advantages for a t2 cloak. A 90m t2 covops cloak should give you much more advantage than a 2m t1 prototype.
T1 vs T2
T1 Drawbacks
- 200% reduction for chance of being found by scan probes. (Reduces chances drastically, but allows for a determined and skilled prober to find you over time.
- Warp systems calibration. ON top of the time required to recalibrate your sensors it should require time to recalibrate your navigation computer. This will make it so that people cant align while cloaked, then warp off almost instantly after uncloaking.
T2 Enhancements.
- Ability to use 'ship scanner' and 'cargo scanner' while cloaked. Sadly these mods are pretty much unused, and having knowing what your enemy is using could be of great tactical value.
- No T1 penalties, cannot be found by scan probes, no warp calibration
Stop whining!
If cloaks should be nerfed so should scanprobes.... The time it takes to scan someone down is rediculous. And cloaks isn`t an I-WIN button as you realised the other night. You where able to scan down our safespot the short time he was uncloaked. So STFU.
Start fighting and stop blobbing.
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Lake
The Praxis Initiative
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:37:00 -
[23]
ghosttr is just now coming in to contact with the age old "AFK Cloaker In your Home System" syndrome. Some neat ideas in the post, but not really getting at the heart of the issue.
I'm actually now seeing this tactic on a grand new scale. Literally 1-2 dozen hostile ships, not just recons but dictors and battleships, all cloaked in our home system.
Even with just recons it meant you couldn't mine safely in a barge without an escort. But with a dozen ships that simply cant be evicted and are ever-present in local 23 hours a day you have a real problem without a real solution. You can't escort every miner and every ratter with a PvP fleet capable of protecting them from 4 to 8 or more battleships.
Sure you can still kill some of them. Nobody's perfect and if they make a mistake or you get lucky you can take one down. But you need to wait until they poke their head out and go for a kill. But why should our large force have to wait out their small force in our own sovereign space? Hours of patience while they spend days cloaked. Presumably spending most of their time AFK or on their mission alt or somesuch.
I'm all for raids and skirmishes. Inties that need to keep buzzing about to stay alive. Capital sieges on POSes to contend our sovereignty. Those things all require active participation on the attacker. If they put up a POS in our space and hid in that, we'd reinforce it inside an hour and it'd be gone as soon as the strontium ran out.
Simply being able to scan out cloaked ships, even if it requires a good deal more time and effort (and expense?) than an uncloaked ship, would be a major step in the right direction. I really don't know why we don't have the option today. It was promised with the scanning rework that came a while back but it wasn't until after the patch that people realized we still couldn't do it. I'm not aware of any real explanation by the devs since then as to what the deal is (bug? last minute balance or exploit concern?).
Of course it still leaves the same old logoff tactics, but atleast you can tell by their name in local wether they're active or not.
And for the record there are 3 cloaks. Prototype Cloak is T1. Improved Cloaking Devices is T2 and pretty much the same save for slightly reduced penalties and twice the CPU req. Covert Ops Cloaking Device is also T2, allows warping while cloaked, and requires a role bonus to CPU reduction to be fit (Covert Ops ships and Force Recons only).
P.S.
Don't bother flaming me. Don't bother claiming I'm just whining about a valid tactic because it's being used against me. Don't bother calling me a noob because "I can't defend myself". Don't bother telling me to stfu.
Of course you're perfectly welcome to do so. It's General Discussion and I really expect no less.
But it doesn't bother me.
--
Lake, Founder of The Praxis Initiative |
Lake
The Praxis Initiative
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TZeer
Stop whining!
...snip...
So STFU.
Start fighting and stop blobbing.
Hmm. I didn't post quickly enough, it seems ;-)
--
Lake, Founder of The Praxis Initiative |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:51:00 -
[25]
What this entire post is about is wanting the ability to lock everyone you don't want out of a system and not have to expend huge amounts of efforts to defend a system, in short you want an easy ride. Cloaks aren't the problem cloaks are fine, what you want is constellation sovereignty and automated system defenses at gates, those how ever will carry a cost and will be coming in time. So stop trying to get everything nerfed just because you want the game your way.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
http://savestargatesg1.com/
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Yggdrassil
STK Scientific
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:03:00 -
[26]
Actually, the only change I would like to see to (all) the cloaks is a timer.
Let the cloak run for 1 hour straight, then decloak.
This way you can use the cloak to hide / probe / whatever.
What you can't do is to have 5-6 ppl cloaked in system, go out and eat dinner - while efficiently shutting the system down for npc/mining etc etc.
Yggdrassil |
eXtas
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:19:00 -
[27]
cloaks are fine, this is just a whine tread from frege because they cant engage the one cloaking hostile when they get together 100ppl
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Lake
The Praxis Initiative
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:27:00 -
[28]
The timer thing doesn't solve the semi-AFK, or playing on an alt technique. Just set a timer like you might for skill training (before the glorious of Evemon anyways) and remember to alt-tab, double-tap your cloak, and then go back to your mission alt.
My pet idea is simply to have cloaks require charges, ammunition. Keep the charge volume small. Make the rate of consumption based on sigRadius. Give the T2 cloak a reduced consumption rate and the Covert Ops cloak a free pass or extremely low rate.
It gives you that timer you wanted. Makes the cloaks less sustainable on larger ships (also as a counter-balance to their larger cargo hold). And it means you can't just stay logged in semi-AFK indefinitely without running yourself out of fuel: You have to log out and drop from local.
--
Lake, Founder of The Praxis Initiative |
Vasiliyan
Gallente Ordnace Research and Development
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ToxicFire
What this entire post is about is wanting the ability to lock everyone you don't want out of a system and not have to expend huge amounts of efforts to defend a system, in short you want an easy ride. Cloaks aren't the problem cloaks are fine, what you want is constellation sovereignty and automated system defenses at gates, those how ever will carry a cost and will be coming in time. So stop trying to get everything nerfed just because you want the game your way.
Indeed. Cloaked battleships are gimped by their own cloaks, so can be defeated by a smaller fleet ... if you can persuade them to uncloak. So bait them out, or alternatively get your response time sorted out and rat in gangs.
---------
Currently offering high-sec POS standings service for 0.5 systems within the Gallente Federation. Evemail me for details. |
Evil Pookie
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 13:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Evil Pookie on 18/04/2007 13:43:26
Lake: you have always been an arrogant, self righteous cant. Your better than thou attitude was a constants source of irritation in ISS. With idiiots like you making and enforcing policy its no wonder ISS got bombed into the stone age. Imagine the serindipity upon finding the praxis deficiency in local when we paid frege a visit. We came because frege is an up and coming alliance (1000 members) we stay because the fighting is good and there are old scores to settle. Whine and compalin all you like. Scream nerf this, boost that, but at the end of the day, we are just better at internet spaceships than you.
If you cant defend your space from 10 pvpers, your screwed when an alliance rolls into town. You clowns have had it way to easy in the new regions. Dr Pookie prescribes a can of harden the fark up!
Luv pookie and trinitrous
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