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Sugar Bumps	Posted - 2007.04.26 19:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Sugar Bumps on 26/04/2007 19:42:01 Galan XIII > afternoon sir CrimsonSky > Hello. Galan XIII > i was just attacked by your alliance members CrimsonSky > Is that so? Just a second. Galan XIII > they say i've pirated them, and that's ridiculous, i've never fought anyone in my life Galan XIII > i'm an industrialist and manufacturer Galan XIII > looking at the guys that killed me, they're the real pirates, here's the mail Galan XIII > there we go Silverbullet > hi CrimsonSky > You, or your corp, are KOS to The Legion of Spoon. CrimsonSky > Hi Silver. Galan XIII > here's a copy of the killmail Silverbullet > eh whats up? Galan XIII > check it out, does that not look liek the other way around? Galan XIII > your alliance mates just ganked my hauler Galan XIII > claiming i'm a pirate Galan XIII > i think the 4-6 guy's the pirate Galan XIII > *-4.6 CrimsonSky > Sec rating has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are pirates. CrimsonSky > They are not pirates. Galan XIII > check your killboard, see if i'm on it Galan XIII > i've never killed anybody ever CrimsonSky > You, or your corp, are KOS to The Legion of Spoon for actions in Sukanen. Galan XIII > am i kos to other cva corps? CrimsonSky > If you're a member of a pirate corporation, you'll be just as KOS as the others. Galan XIII > wow, my corporation used to live in detorid, but have gone into hibernation, it's just a few indurialist guys left. How can we fix this? CrimsonSky > Let me see if I can get someone from Spoon in here. Silverbullet > if you guys where put on the kos list, you dont come off unles some sort of argrement has been made about it first Galan XIII > i hear ya, just look at it form my point of view Galan XIII > i come down here every few weeks to grab some minerals, and this is the first time i've been shot Galan XIII > afternoon equinox Equinox Daedalus > Well Your corp is kos due to piracy in the sukanan constelation ages ago. Equinox Daedalus > atleast to my corp. Galan XIII > is that something that can be fixed? Equinox Daedalus > so it was not a global alliance kos. Galan XIII > hello? Equinox Daedalus > Aye Hold a second plz. Equinox Daedalus > Well It can be recinded yes, I was just trying to find out where you shot at My corp but it appears its a pre rmr killmail so Probally lost to the ages. Galan XIII > ok, so i will nto be shot by any cva from now on is that correct? Equinox Daedalus > Aye, well I'll recind the KOS via my corp for now then, since it is ages ago. Galan XIII > why on earth do each corp have seperate standings, does that not seem silly to anyone else? Equinox Daedalus > not really no Equinox Daedalus > and its not a sepearte standing Equinox Daedalus > is just an old standing Galan XIII > if a corp is an enemy to someone, he should be to all cva no?? Equinox Daedalus > We do have an alliance kos list yes. Silverbullet > corps has a history before joining the CVA Galan XIII > then people kos to you should be kos to all cva yes? Equinox Daedalus > As i said it was a PRE CVA kos list. Equinox Daedalus > yes. Galan XIII > then you'll reimburse my ship as it was your mistake? Equinox Daedalus > no. Equinox Daedalus > Its not my mistake. Galan XIII > ah... must be my mistake you shot a neutral Equinox Daedalus > If you were a neutral you wouldn't of been shot. Galan XIII > to be honest equinox, that sounds like a load fo bull puckey. Your alliance standings should be all the same. And if it happened 2 years ago like you said, it should have been erased when you joined cva. CrimsonSky > He didn't. He shot a KOS target that might be getting off KOS now. You were KOS at the time, and he did nothing wrong. Galan XIII > well good job justifying shooting a neutral guys. Thanks for defending the empire. Silverbullet > have your corp ever paied back all the ppl shot by your guns? Equinox Daedalus > /emote shrugs. Ideally alliance and corp kos lists should be the same, however the limited tanding slots as well as previous pirate encounters mean some corps have differnt standings Equinox Daedalus > its not my job to justify why you were shot. Galan XIII > i'm waiting for proof we ever shot anyone Galan XIII > again i ask you to check your killboards Galan XIII > I'm an amarr industrialist like my corpmates, you made a mistake. Thanks for defending the innocent and justifying your -4.6 members attack on my hauler. Silverbullet > a -4.6 standing only mean he has shot pirates in low sec Galan XIII > yes, i am an obvious pirate aren't <i>I?</i> CrimsonSky > Not all pirates are obvious. Galan XIII > in my short experience, a pirate will be flashgign and causes no sec hit to kill. Galan XIII > perhaps your definition of pirate is so scewed you cannot see them under your own nose sir.
Ostos Marek Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 26/04/2007 20:00:59 Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Stop whining. Your corp did something bad a long time ago to get you on their personal CORP KOS list. Both corps and Alliances have their own, so corps can set their own personal standing and/or can go by alliance standings. You may have gotten shot for something that your corp did a long time ago, but that's the way it goes. Please stop spamming the IGS forum. We are recruiting!
Ostos Marek Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:06:00 - [3] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 26/04/2007 20:03:42 Also as a note, pirates can work their security status back up with concord by killing sansha's out in belts. Concord likes people helping them out taking out the trash. We are recruiting!
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:09:00 - [4] CVA are pirates, but it has nothing to do with that chat log.
Dei Amarr Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus CVA are pirates, but it has nothing to do with that chat log. I...I think pirates actually operate under a NBSI policy. And I would absolutely love so see any proof with your argument you just put forward. If only you would justify your accusations then maybe I might have a little bit more respect for a poncey Gallente. As to the incident mentioned in the chat log, I see no mistake on CVA's part from a third party perspective, thus no reason for accusations of this kind. If you didn't know the reputation that your corp or alliance carried then maybe you should've paid a bit more attention to your surroundings. --- The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:42:00 - [6] Edited by: Casserina Leshrac on 26/04/2007 21:39:40 The CVA are pirates? How very interesting. Can anyone supply instances of their "pirate acts"? Naturally I am curious. I am certain they will deny it. However feel free to eve-mail with all of the details if that is the case. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:02:00 - [7] Interesting. Looks like a feeble attempt at a smear campaign to me. CVA are no more pirates than Veto is a happy band of high security miners. You got some big bumps down below, Sugar Bumps to make such an extreme accusation about CVA based on a transmission like that. It more than looks like CVA representatives did their best to explain the situation at hand, and the reasons surrounding the KOS status. CVA, while an organization comprising of Amarrians filled with a lot of hot air sometimes (in my personal opinion), them as an Alliance are terriffic capsuleers, wise businessmen, and honorable on every level I've encountered them at. I do not take kindly at all to your motives behind your Galnet announcement backed by hollow proof and based on a foolish premise. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:08:00 - [8] If your going to post communication logs atleast post the full version, dont edit out the parts that make you look foolish and dont help your case?
Tomahawk Bliss INTAKI UNION Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.04.26 23:39:00 - [9] why is it every few months someone stumbles in here, obviously out of their depth, and claims CVA are "pirates" when we all know that CVA are in fact one of the few groups that are actually anti-pirate? I mean if the attempt is to damage their reputation one would expect you'd go for a half-truth rather than the complete opposite of reality. At least a smart person would. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 00:33:00 - [10] I find it ironic this "victim" seems to acknowledge its a two year old pre-cva kill list that led to his destruction yet titles this thread "cva are pirates". Nothing like a little spin is there... Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG
Stanley Savior	Posted - 2007.04.27 05:43:00 - [11] Quote: Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Shut up, You and your dumb religious blas... nevermind. Archy shut up, PIE inc, amarr are scum. CVA are chicken fodder and fecal matter of cow horse dung. Wait where do not know what a horse is? or cow? i know mre knowledge on our forefather than any of your kind. lick the rse of CVA as they tae shots at you from nother alliance. amarr are the biggest chickens in the world i'll purge ever one of you from our clear and blue world. your god is false. s spit on him. and ****
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 07:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Stanley Savior Quote: Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Shut up, You and your dumb religious blas... nevermind. Archy shut up, PIE inc, amarr are scum. CVA are chicken fodder and fecal matter of cow horse dung. Wait where do not know what a horse is? or cow? i know mre knowledge on our forefather than any of your kind. lick the rse of CVA as they tae shots at you from nother alliance. amarr are the biggest chickens in the world i'll purge ever one of you from our clear and blue world. your god is false. s spit on him. and **** So I guess that little "hearts and minds" operation PIE launched in Federation space went well. .... >> RECRUITING <<
Stanley Savior	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:22:00 - [13] nah i doubt it they always cloak them selves.
Soratah Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Stanley Savior nah i doubt it they always cloak them selves. Speaking from personal experience now?
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.27 10:33:00 - [15] Quote: I...I think pirates actually operate under a NBSI policy. And I would absolutely love so see any proof with your argument you just put forward. They support slavery, they themselves capture slaves. Stealing people from their homes is kidnapping and piracy.
EveJoker Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:13:00 - [16] Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:56:00 - [17] Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Star Fraction is recruiting
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 12:45:00 - [18] Edited by: zoolkhan on 27/04/2007 12:48:13 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Very True. But theyre succsessful with this tactic. Its tough to keep high ideals and moral up without support. or let me phrase it this way: as long you keep up your moral and high ideals you hardly get support... but a horde of slaves which they are should not waste to many thoughts on this. I know they dont. And they like to shoot birds with howitzers. Lets agree upon them beeing pirates. They shoot a lot of innocents in providence and put a lot of ISK into marketing the opposite. U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Paradoxex Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.04.27 14:50:00 - [19] The bloom of virtue and morality is in full force during the spring time of success. It wilts rapidly in the face of adversity, however. Of such is convenience. IAC's proliferation in the area has been inexplicable. As CVA termed "pirates" ourselves, we have watched their recon gangs meander through sacred Providence space over the past few weeks. Under the auspices of a NRDS policy of engagement in Providence they prowled and scoured systems for prey, clearly acting in an NBSI manner. What justification can be given of the utter disregard attributed to them by Providence's gatekeepers and wardens, I cannot fathom. Furthermore, the reality should be further examined so that the religious zealots may chance upon actual truth as opposed to propaganda. There is much talk of CVA's ambitions in the region of Providence, and of their impending lordship in the area. Such a dominion would be ill-advised, and untenable for all in the region. For inasmuch as CVA have proved effective at handling large enemies, they have been shown lacking when it comes to smaller gangs of more acute threat. So while CVA capital assets may be relatively safe, their human capital is perpetually vulnerable. CVA may want to be the mighty shepherd of Providence, but if one can't protect his sheep, then perhaps one should choose a more appropriate profession.
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Cute, but completely innacurate. IAC do not operate NBSI in Providence and they are I believe the only other alliance other than us that tries to maintain a NRDS policy and keep their space open for neutrals. I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. Continue to snipe at every communication involving CVA. It keeps us entertained.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 27/04/2007 15:40:43 IAC is not NBSI in Providence, we are temporarily NBSI everywhere else in 0.0 right now however due to our little problem with 0utbreak. Our recon gangs are there hunting our enemies for sport and training, not pirating innocent people we have no beef with. PS; CVA are a lot tougher than IAC, and have never needed our help with anything. They are in fact extremely choosy about who they ally with. http://eve.klaki.net/
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:55:00 - [22] Oh, the bitterness! It's really quite simple: operating NBSI in CVA space is against CVA rules. As the sovereign in our space, we set the rules. We do not set the rules for IAC space. If IAC wish to operate NBSI in IAC space but respect CVA rules of NRDS in CVA space (they do)...then coolbeans. Savvy? CVA reputation stands on its own. The smear tactics and insults are cute, but I suggest our enemies and detractors take action against CVA assets to have a more tangible effect on the CVA.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:35:00 - [24] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. A question. If CVA fires and destroys a ship operating in their space, then does it qualify as the spoils of battle or looting? And I will ask this as well, what if they capture to crew and force them into slavery? Would this not constitute as an act of piracy as well? Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Solusar on 27/04/2007 16:51:34
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:55:00 - [26] Slightly garbled transmission there but I believe I heard you ask me some questions. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac A question. If CVA fires and destroys a ship operating in their space, then does it qualify as the spoils of battle or looting? And I will ask this as well, what if they capture to crew and force them into slavery? Would this not constitute as an act of piracy as well? Really, these are questions for the CVA to answer but I can give my personal view in general terms. If one destroys a ship in combat there is absolutely nothing wrong in looting the wreck as this does indeed represent the spoils of battle. I would also say there is nothing wrong in seeking to deny an enemy such spoils if one is able to do so. The real question is why the combat was initiated in the first instance. As for whether a crew is captured and enslaved, well, I think that is an act of slavery pure and simple. Whether the capture is made in the commission of an act of piracy by a gang of wolfsheads or made after a combat action by a paramilitary unit is neither here nor there really. The issue with the word 'pirate' is that for it to be meaningful it must have some power to differentiate those who are in fact 'pirates' and those who are not. If the definition is so wide as to be applicable to almost anyone who has engaged in ship-to-ship combat then it becomes meaningless and all that is left is the perjorative element and so it reverts to a casual insult that enemies fling at one another. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:02:00 - [27] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. And to Casserina: if CVA pops a ship in a warrented manner then the equipment left is considered forfeit of the opponent and confiscated. The crews, if present, are not our concern.
Hardin Amarr Molotov Holdings Limited Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. You really are clueless aren't you? Please find me one example, just one example, of IAC helping to defend CVA Outposts? You also clearly have no inkling of the history of CVA and or you would know that some CVA members played a key role in the origination of the IAC alliance. Indeed, CVA forces also assisted with the escort and construction of IAC's first Outposts. Yes little brother (just like Huzzah before it) has grown up and become its own alliance with its own agenda - but we still share many things in common and a mutual respect. As outlined by Tyraxx above IAC respect the NRDS rules we operate in our space. They have even paid compensation when there has been the inevitable mistakes (as do we). This is a complete contrast to most other 0.0 alliances who shoot at anything and everything that moves. CVA currently has Red Alliance, AAA, BoB and D2 (to name just a few) marked as KOS in our territory and shoot at them whenever we see them. Why would we deliberately antagonise these powerful entities? Because they came to our space and did not respect our rules. They shot at the CVA or they shot neutrals in Amarrian Providence and are therefore classed as pirates. We have opened our space up to law abiding citizens. We dont demand tribute, we dont demand respect, we dont demand payment - all we ask is that people obey our basic rules. As a result many pod pilots have enjoyed their first access to 0.0 in Holy Amarrian Providence - an access that is denies elsewhere. The CVA has had a long and proud history of anti-pirate action stretching back to when Sarum Prime was a pirate haven. Even the 'pirates' acknowledge the CVA as one of their main opponents in the galaxy. I think it shows the desperation of the Star Fraction's current position that they feel the need to latch on to such idiotic and untruthful slander. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. You're not. The phrase 'take over an area of space' was what I took issue with. Regardless, building and maintaining outposts is not the focus of our organisation. I'm not really sure why this should be a criticism of us though. We support the exploitation of deep-space and have gained access to numerous outposts since capsuleers began building them on terms of free and open exchange that have not infringed our essential independence and sovereignty. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Casserina Leshrac on 27/04/2007 17:19:06 Originally by: Raane Thyandar Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. And to Casserina: if CVA pops a ship in a warrented manner then the equipment left is considered forfeit of the opponent and confiscated. The crews, if present, are not our concern. Define warranted Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.

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