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Sugar Bumps	Posted - 2007.04.26 19:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Sugar Bumps on 26/04/2007 19:42:01 Galan XIII > afternoon sir CrimsonSky > Hello. Galan XIII > i was just attacked by your alliance members CrimsonSky > Is that so? Just a second. Galan XIII > they say i've pirated them, and that's ridiculous, i've never fought anyone in my life Galan XIII > i'm an industrialist and manufacturer Galan XIII > looking at the guys that killed me, they're the real pirates, here's the mail Galan XIII > there we go Silverbullet > hi CrimsonSky > You, or your corp, are KOS to The Legion of Spoon. CrimsonSky > Hi Silver. Galan XIII > here's a copy of the killmail Silverbullet > eh whats up? Galan XIII > check it out, does that not look liek the other way around? Galan XIII > your alliance mates just ganked my hauler Galan XIII > claiming i'm a pirate Galan XIII > i think the 4-6 guy's the pirate Galan XIII > *-4.6 CrimsonSky > Sec rating has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are pirates. CrimsonSky > They are not pirates. Galan XIII > check your killboard, see if i'm on it Galan XIII > i've never killed anybody ever CrimsonSky > You, or your corp, are KOS to The Legion of Spoon for actions in Sukanen. Galan XIII > am i kos to other cva corps? CrimsonSky > If you're a member of a pirate corporation, you'll be just as KOS as the others. Galan XIII > wow, my corporation used to live in detorid, but have gone into hibernation, it's just a few indurialist guys left. How can we fix this? CrimsonSky > Let me see if I can get someone from Spoon in here. Silverbullet > if you guys where put on the kos list, you dont come off unles some sort of argrement has been made about it first Galan XIII > i hear ya, just look at it form my point of view Galan XIII > i come down here every few weeks to grab some minerals, and this is the first time i've been shot Galan XIII > afternoon equinox Equinox Daedalus > Well Your corp is kos due to piracy in the sukanan constelation ages ago. Equinox Daedalus > atleast to my corp. Galan XIII > is that something that can be fixed? Equinox Daedalus > so it was not a global alliance kos. Galan XIII > hello? Equinox Daedalus > Aye Hold a second plz. Equinox Daedalus > Well It can be recinded yes, I was just trying to find out where you shot at My corp but it appears its a pre rmr killmail so Probally lost to the ages. Galan XIII > ok, so i will nto be shot by any cva from now on is that correct? Equinox Daedalus > Aye, well I'll recind the KOS via my corp for now then, since it is ages ago. Galan XIII > why on earth do each corp have seperate standings, does that not seem silly to anyone else? Equinox Daedalus > not really no Equinox Daedalus > and its not a sepearte standing Equinox Daedalus > is just an old standing Galan XIII > if a corp is an enemy to someone, he should be to all cva no?? Equinox Daedalus > We do have an alliance kos list yes. Silverbullet > corps has a history before joining the CVA Galan XIII > then people kos to you should be kos to all cva yes? Equinox Daedalus > As i said it was a PRE CVA kos list. Equinox Daedalus > yes. Galan XIII > then you'll reimburse my ship as it was your mistake? Equinox Daedalus > no. Equinox Daedalus > Its not my mistake. Galan XIII > ah... must be my mistake you shot a neutral Equinox Daedalus > If you were a neutral you wouldn't of been shot. Galan XIII > to be honest equinox, that sounds like a load fo bull puckey. Your alliance standings should be all the same. And if it happened 2 years ago like you said, it should have been erased when you joined cva. CrimsonSky > He didn't. He shot a KOS target that might be getting off KOS now. You were KOS at the time, and he did nothing wrong. Galan XIII > well good job justifying shooting a neutral guys. Thanks for defending the empire. Silverbullet > have your corp ever paied back all the ppl shot by your guns? Equinox Daedalus > /emote shrugs. Ideally alliance and corp kos lists should be the same, however the limited tanding slots as well as previous pirate encounters mean some corps have differnt standings Equinox Daedalus > its not my job to justify why you were shot. Galan XIII > i'm waiting for proof we ever shot anyone Galan XIII > again i ask you to check your killboards Galan XIII > I'm an amarr industrialist like my corpmates, you made a mistake. Thanks for defending the innocent and justifying your -4.6 members attack on my hauler. Silverbullet > a -4.6 standing only mean he has shot pirates in low sec Galan XIII > yes, i am an obvious pirate aren't <i>I?</i> CrimsonSky > Not all pirates are obvious. Galan XIII > in my short experience, a pirate will be flashgign and causes no sec hit to kill. Galan XIII > perhaps your definition of pirate is so scewed you cannot see them under your own nose sir.
Ostos Marek Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 26/04/2007 20:00:59 Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Stop whining. Your corp did something bad a long time ago to get you on their personal CORP KOS list. Both corps and Alliances have their own, so corps can set their own personal standing and/or can go by alliance standings. You may have gotten shot for something that your corp did a long time ago, but that's the way it goes. Please stop spamming the IGS forum. We are recruiting!
Ostos Marek Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:06:00 - [3] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 26/04/2007 20:03:42 Also as a note, pirates can work their security status back up with concord by killing sansha's out in belts. Concord likes people helping them out taking out the trash. We are recruiting!
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:09:00 - [4] CVA are pirates, but it has nothing to do with that chat log.
Dei Amarr Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus CVA are pirates, but it has nothing to do with that chat log. I...I think pirates actually operate under a NBSI policy. And I would absolutely love so see any proof with your argument you just put forward. If only you would justify your accusations then maybe I might have a little bit more respect for a poncey Gallente. As to the incident mentioned in the chat log, I see no mistake on CVA's part from a third party perspective, thus no reason for accusations of this kind. If you didn't know the reputation that your corp or alliance carried then maybe you should've paid a bit more attention to your surroundings. --- The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:42:00 - [6] Edited by: Casserina Leshrac on 26/04/2007 21:39:40 The CVA are pirates? How very interesting. Can anyone supply instances of their "pirate acts"? Naturally I am curious. I am certain they will deny it. However feel free to eve-mail with all of the details if that is the case. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:02:00 - [7] Interesting. Looks like a feeble attempt at a smear campaign to me. CVA are no more pirates than Veto is a happy band of high security miners. You got some big bumps down below, Sugar Bumps to make such an extreme accusation about CVA based on a transmission like that. It more than looks like CVA representatives did their best to explain the situation at hand, and the reasons surrounding the KOS status. CVA, while an organization comprising of Amarrians filled with a lot of hot air sometimes (in my personal opinion), them as an Alliance are terriffic capsuleers, wise businessmen, and honorable on every level I've encountered them at. I do not take kindly at all to your motives behind your Galnet announcement backed by hollow proof and based on a foolish premise. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:08:00 - [8] If your going to post communication logs atleast post the full version, dont edit out the parts that make you look foolish and dont help your case?
Tomahawk Bliss INTAKI UNION Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.04.26 23:39:00 - [9] why is it every few months someone stumbles in here, obviously out of their depth, and claims CVA are "pirates" when we all know that CVA are in fact one of the few groups that are actually anti-pirate? I mean if the attempt is to damage their reputation one would expect you'd go for a half-truth rather than the complete opposite of reality. At least a smart person would. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 00:33:00 - [10] I find it ironic this "victim" seems to acknowledge its a two year old pre-cva kill list that led to his destruction yet titles this thread "cva are pirates". Nothing like a little spin is there... Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG
Stanley Savior	Posted - 2007.04.27 05:43:00 - [11] Quote: Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Shut up, You and your dumb religious blas... nevermind. Archy shut up, PIE inc, amarr are scum. CVA are chicken fodder and fecal matter of cow horse dung. Wait where do not know what a horse is? or cow? i know mre knowledge on our forefather than any of your kind. lick the rse of CVA as they tae shots at you from nother alliance. amarr are the biggest chickens in the world i'll purge ever one of you from our clear and blue world. your god is false. s spit on him. and ****
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 07:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Stanley Savior Quote: Actually just because someone is flashing doesn't mean you take no security hit for killing them in lowsec. THey can be flashing but still cost you security status to attack them. Shut up, You and your dumb religious blas... nevermind. Archy shut up, PIE inc, amarr are scum. CVA are chicken fodder and fecal matter of cow horse dung. Wait where do not know what a horse is? or cow? i know mre knowledge on our forefather than any of your kind. lick the rse of CVA as they tae shots at you from nother alliance. amarr are the biggest chickens in the world i'll purge ever one of you from our clear and blue world. your god is false. s spit on him. and **** So I guess that little "hearts and minds" operation PIE launched in Federation space went well. .... >> RECRUITING <<
Stanley Savior	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:22:00 - [13] nah i doubt it they always cloak them selves.
Soratah Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Stanley Savior nah i doubt it they always cloak them selves. Speaking from personal experience now?
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.27 10:33:00 - [15] Quote: I...I think pirates actually operate under a NBSI policy. And I would absolutely love so see any proof with your argument you just put forward. They support slavery, they themselves capture slaves. Stealing people from their homes is kidnapping and piracy.
EveJoker Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:13:00 - [16] Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:56:00 - [17] Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Star Fraction is recruiting
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.27 12:45:00 - [18] Edited by: zoolkhan on 27/04/2007 12:48:13 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Very True. But theyre succsessful with this tactic. Its tough to keep high ideals and moral up without support. or let me phrase it this way: as long you keep up your moral and high ideals you hardly get support... but a horde of slaves which they are should not waste to many thoughts on this. I know they dont. And they like to shoot birds with howitzers. Lets agree upon them beeing pirates. They shoot a lot of innocents in providence and put a lot of ISK into marketing the opposite. U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Paradoxex Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.04.27 14:50:00 - [19] The bloom of virtue and morality is in full force during the spring time of success. It wilts rapidly in the face of adversity, however. Of such is convenience. IAC's proliferation in the area has been inexplicable. As CVA termed "pirates" ourselves, we have watched their recon gangs meander through sacred Providence space over the past few weeks. Under the auspices of a NRDS policy of engagement in Providence they prowled and scoured systems for prey, clearly acting in an NBSI manner. What justification can be given of the utter disregard attributed to them by Providence's gatekeepers and wardens, I cannot fathom. Furthermore, the reality should be further examined so that the religious zealots may chance upon actual truth as opposed to propaganda. There is much talk of CVA's ambitions in the region of Providence, and of their impending lordship in the area. Such a dominion would be ill-advised, and untenable for all in the region. For inasmuch as CVA have proved effective at handling large enemies, they have been shown lacking when it comes to smaller gangs of more acute threat. So while CVA capital assets may be relatively safe, their human capital is perpetually vulnerable. CVA may want to be the mighty shepherd of Providence, but if one can't protect his sheep, then perhaps one should choose a more appropriate profession.
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. Cute, but completely innacurate. IAC do not operate NBSI in Providence and they are I believe the only other alliance other than us that tries to maintain a NRDS policy and keep their space open for neutrals. I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. Continue to snipe at every communication involving CVA. It keeps us entertained.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 27/04/2007 15:40:43 IAC is not NBSI in Providence, we are temporarily NBSI everywhere else in 0.0 right now however due to our little problem with 0utbreak. Our recon gangs are there hunting our enemies for sport and training, not pirating innocent people we have no beef with. PS; CVA are a lot tougher than IAC, and have never needed our help with anything. They are in fact extremely choosy about who they ally with. http://eve.klaki.net/
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 15:55:00 - [22] Oh, the bitterness! It's really quite simple: operating NBSI in CVA space is against CVA rules. As the sovereign in our space, we set the rules. We do not set the rules for IAC space. If IAC wish to operate NBSI in IAC space but respect CVA rules of NRDS in CVA space (they do)...then coolbeans. Savvy? CVA reputation stands on its own. The smear tactics and insults are cute, but I suggest our enemies and detractors take action against CVA assets to have a more tangible effect on the CVA.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:35:00 - [24] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. A question. If CVA fires and destroys a ship operating in their space, then does it qualify as the spoils of battle or looting? And I will ask this as well, what if they capture to crew and force them into slavery? Would this not constitute as an act of piracy as well? Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Solusar on 27/04/2007 16:51:34
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 16:55:00 - [26] Slightly garbled transmission there but I believe I heard you ask me some questions. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac A question. If CVA fires and destroys a ship operating in their space, then does it qualify as the spoils of battle or looting? And I will ask this as well, what if they capture to crew and force them into slavery? Would this not constitute as an act of piracy as well? Really, these are questions for the CVA to answer but I can give my personal view in general terms. If one destroys a ship in combat there is absolutely nothing wrong in looting the wreck as this does indeed represent the spoils of battle. I would also say there is nothing wrong in seeking to deny an enemy such spoils if one is able to do so. The real question is why the combat was initiated in the first instance. As for whether a crew is captured and enslaved, well, I think that is an act of slavery pure and simple. Whether the capture is made in the commission of an act of piracy by a gang of wolfsheads or made after a combat action by a paramilitary unit is neither here nor there really. The issue with the word 'pirate' is that for it to be meaningful it must have some power to differentiate those who are in fact 'pirates' and those who are not. If the definition is so wide as to be applicable to almost anyone who has engaged in ship-to-ship combat then it becomes meaningless and all that is left is the perjorative element and so it reverts to a casual insult that enemies fling at one another. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:02:00 - [27] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. And to Casserina: if CVA pops a ship in a warrented manner then the equipment left is considered forfeit of the opponent and confiscated. The crews, if present, are not our concern.
Hardin Amarr Molotov Holdings Limited Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. They need big bad friends to help defend their outposts. That means they can't be choosy about who they ally with. IAC have bigger teeth than CVA so when they growl and set NBSI the CVA must assume a submissive posture and roll on their belly. This is the behaviour of dogs in the wild and is no surprise here. You really are clueless aren't you? Please find me one example, just one example, of IAC helping to defend CVA Outposts? You also clearly have no inkling of the history of CVA and or you would know that some CVA members played a key role in the origination of the IAC alliance. Indeed, CVA forces also assisted with the escort and construction of IAC's first Outposts. Yes little brother (just like Huzzah before it) has grown up and become its own alliance with its own agenda - but we still share many things in common and a mutual respect. As outlined by Tyraxx above IAC respect the NRDS rules we operate in our space. They have even paid compensation when there has been the inevitable mistakes (as do we). This is a complete contrast to most other 0.0 alliances who shoot at anything and everything that moves. CVA currently has Red Alliance, AAA, BoB and D2 (to name just a few) marked as KOS in our territory and shoot at them whenever we see them. Why would we deliberately antagonise these powerful entities? Because they came to our space and did not respect our rules. They shot at the CVA or they shot neutrals in Amarrian Providence and are therefore classed as pirates. We have opened our space up to law abiding citizens. We dont demand tribute, we dont demand respect, we dont demand payment - all we ask is that people obey our basic rules. As a result many pod pilots have enjoyed their first access to 0.0 in Holy Amarrian Providence - an access that is denies elsewhere. The CVA has had a long and proud history of anti-pirate action stretching back to when Sarum Prime was a pirate haven. Even the 'pirates' acknowledge the CVA as one of their main opponents in the galaxy. I think it shows the desperation of the Star Fraction's current position that they feel the need to latch on to such idiotic and untruthful slander. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. You're not. The phrase 'take over an area of space' was what I took issue with. Regardless, building and maintaining outposts is not the focus of our organisation. I'm not really sure why this should be a criticism of us though. We support the exploitation of deep-space and have gained access to numerous outposts since capsuleers began building them on terms of free and open exchange that have not infringed our essential independence and sovereignty. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Casserina Leshrac on 27/04/2007 17:19:06 Originally by: Raane Thyandar Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Solusar I challenge you to take over an area of space, build some outposts and then keep it open to neutrals. If you do not do this, I believe I have proved my point. You challenge us to act in a manner that you know is contrary to our ideology and then say that if we do not do this you have proven some 'point'. Nonsense. Mind you, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't believe the CVA can be described as 'pirates'. They are tyrannical, capricious aggressors running a tinpot theocratic police state as a proxy for a loathesome and bankrupt empire, with a definition of 'neutral' that is debatable to say the least, but 'pirates'? No, I wouldn't call them 'pirates'. These days the word really only has meaning when applied to those who embrace it as a description of their chosen trade. In almost every other case it is used as simply a curse-word. The Cosmopolite Actually through a few discussions i was having with folk from your very organisation that a cooperative effort like that would likely be possible under your ideals. It just prohibits the enforcement of restrictions, boundaries from without on the denizens of this region and not actually 'laying claim' to area rather just using the sovereignty system to support the outpost. Correct me if i'm wrong. And to Casserina: if CVA pops a ship in a warrented manner then the equipment left is considered forfeit of the opponent and confiscated. The crews, if present, are not our concern. Define warranted Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:42:00 - [31] By warrented i mean a person on the Providence/CVA KOS list. This means wartargets of the corporations and pirates. And to define pirates: those who would prey on those who are neutral or friendly to CVA. Quite simple really, the spoils are treated like the spoils of any war, normally going to reimburse those who may have lost ships in anti-pirate operations.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Hardin I think it shows the desperation of the Star Fraction's current position that they feel the need to latch on to such idiotic and untruthful slander. I'm sorry but the Star Fraction has not latched onto any slander. No-one from our movement has suggested you are pirates or support piracy. You are allies with a self-declared NBSI organisation right enough but that doesn't necessarily translate into piracy or the support of piracy in our view. As for our position, it's very far from being desperate. The fighting is brutal and both sides are taking their losses but the Star Fraction continues to destroy Amarrian paramilitary and allied ships on a daily basis. We are quite satisfied that we can continue to actively prosecute the war for as long as it takes. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 18:41:00 - [33] The slander has nothing to do with the issue of piracy, as you know. It has more to do with your monarchs claim that we roll over or take orders from IAC. Evidence stands in stark contrast to this statement. Even the IAC leader has come here and said otherwise. But no doubt this would not dissuade the party line you wish to put forth. Feel free to continue though, the attempt does a marvelous job of making the fraction look foolish.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 19:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Pezzle The slander has nothing to do with the issue of piracy, as you know. It has more to do with your monarchs claim that we roll over or take orders from IAC. Evidence stands in stark contrast to this statement. Even the IAC leader has come here and said otherwise. But no doubt this would not dissuade the party line you wish to put forth. Feel free to continue though, the attempt does a marvelous job of making the fraction look foolish. First, the Star Fraction has no 'monarch'. Second, Jasmine is an individual member and does not speak for the Star Fraction outside official communications. Her contributions to this thread are her opinions, not those of the Star Fraction. Third, there is no 'party line'. The only one looking foolish is the person who can't get outside of the authoritarian mindset that simply can't conceive of an organisation made up of free individuals with their own, sometimes quite different, opinions. For what it is worth, I'm personally not aware that the CVA takes orders from anyone but the corrupt imperial regime that presides over the Amarrian regions. That's quite bad enough and sufficient reason for me to regard the CVA as an enemy. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 20:21:00 - [35] Pezzle grins I am guessing you refer to the Amarr Empire. Apology accepted Cosmopolite.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Pezzle Pezzle grins I am guessing you refer to the Amarr Empire. Apology accepted Cosmopolite. Quite why you think I have extended any apology I don't know. I've simply stated my personal view of matters. If you must know, I have an automatic sympathy for anyone falsely accused of 'piracy', even a deadly foe, because the Star Fraction is now and again, absurdly, accused of being a gang of pirates. As I've indicated, I think it's a fairly sterile debate and I apply the ancient Amarrian principle of cum grano salis to any instance of the term 'pirate' being thrown around. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
xHjfx Minmatar The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.27 23:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 27/04/2007 15:40:43 IAC is not NBSI in Providence, we are temporarily NBSI everywhere else in 0.0 right now however due to our little problem with 0utbreak. Our recon gangs are there hunting our enemies for sport and training, not pirating innocent people we have no beef with. PS; CVA are a lot tougher than IAC, and have never needed our help with anything. They are in fact extremely choosy about who they ally with. Not that the word of Tyrrax needs confirmation, but having witnessed and participated with the aforementioned gangs in the Terrorist home system - 9uy, I can confirm the fact they are only engaging Terrorists and Enemy pilots within Providence. Dont try to smear the reputation of the good and honourable with petty lies because you are on the recieving end. -----
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 02:15:00 - [38] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk IAC is not NBSI in Providence, we are temporarily NBSI everywhere else in 0.0 right now however due to our little problem with 0utbreak. This is patently false, or you have recently changed your stance, or I guess your members don't or didn't know the orders. The Assah - 9UY pipe, in particular the g-5/Assah gate, has had IAC operating NBSI for months. Your men have been attacking everything bar those I assume you had set blue moving thru it. Your pilots openly stated this to neutrals warping into their camps as they shot them. I simply assumed you had declared U'K space a warzone and that anything in it was fair game to try and destabalise us. Recently you changed tactics along with some heavy napping of the locals U'K side of provi so I guess things may have changed, but in essence in terms of history of the last few months EveJoker is correct. ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.28 05:19:00 - [39] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 05:17:25 There may have been some confusion within our ranks as to whether or not the terrorist infested part of Providence should be deemed completely hostile. A few of our raid leaders apparently believed it was for a brief period of time (certainly not months) and operated on the assumption that anyone found around 9uy must be a terrorist collaborator and a threat to operational security. I corrected them on the non-hostile status of the entire region as soon as the situation was brought to my attention and reimbursed the losses of those found to be innocent. http://eve.klaki.net/
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 08:10:00 - [40] Ahh confusion ... that would be the same confusion that lead to your pilots helping rob a neutral mining corp's POS in DNR today then? They should perhaps lay off the grog a while. Karn shrugs ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Nebulous Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 09:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Ahh confusion ... that would be the same confusion that lead to your pilots helping rob a neutral mining corp's POS in DNR today then? They should perhaps lay off the grog a while. Karn shrugs Indeed
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:01:00 - [42] Ushra'Khan, withdraw from this topic. Neither IAC nor the CVA deserve any more respectful conversation. We all know where we stand with each other. We especially know where we stand with the CVA. Now more than ever it seems. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:26:00 - [43] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 11:22:58 Originally by: Karn Mithralia Ahh confusion ... that would be the same confusion that lead to your pilots helping rob a neutral mining corp's POS in DNR today then? They should perhaps lay off the grog a while. Karn shrugs How would you know our standings towards whomever you're talking about ? Perhaps you should stick to flinging refuse, might be a bit more at your level and your boss doesn't seem too happy with your current performance, amusing though some of us might find it. http://eve.klaki.net/
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 12:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Solusar As for the Ushra'Khan posters here. You initiated hostilities vs IAC when they were a small alliance finding their feet in 0 security space. Stop trying to make it look like they are the bad guys here when you went after what you percieved to be a weak target. Bull***, we had neutral standings to them , and on individual base even friendly relations with IAC pilots until we payed back our debt to ISS. Since then IAC hates us, and is harassing us when it suits them. never have we raided their homes after the ISS war, and never before. To us the war is over, however to them its not - but that is not the topic here. Sure is, we are not actively seeking conflict with them. And i would not be surprised if my words even get confirmed by IAC. Beeing enemy doesnt necessarily mean to lie. 2nd, there is no reason to deny the fact that u'k is maintaining NRDS since our arrival in providence (the abbreviation is even uk born to my best knowledge) Stand by the truth and behind your actions solusar. U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..*
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 12:20:00 - [45] Originally by: zoolkhan 2nd, there is no reason to deny the fact that u'k is maintaining NRDS since our arrival in providence (the abbreviation is even uk born to my best knowledge) Stand by the truth and behind your actions solusar. Ushra'khan has stated on several occasions that neutrals in CVA space are valid targets, i am fairly sure that Ushra'khan attacked IAC pilots before IAC had its own space. ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 13:42:00 - [46] Zool, enough. You can't reason with the unreasonable. Reash, say what you wish about us. I have now lost all care and respect for your alliance, along with your allies. As has pretty much all of the council. You deserve IAC and they deserve you. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 14:36:00 - [47] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk How would you know our standings towards whomever you're talking about ? Perhaps you should stick to flinging refuse, might be a bit more at your level and your boss doesn't seem too happy with your current performance, amusing though some of us might find it. I get my information by asking like anyone else. Its not hard, did you ask your men if there was anything in what I said? I'm more than happy to take this off forum and into private disucssion if you really care what your pilots do in those parts of provi not under CVA's eye. Darius isn't my boss, he just can't see the value of posting on these matters here. I must admit he has a point. ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 14:55:00 - [48] yawns Whilst we're on the topic of Recon gangs operating in space. It would be nice if IAC were able to give a clear message on what they actually think.. I mean first of all we have you *****ing about people floating afk Coverts in your space for ages and then when your guys can't fly around your own space because Outbreak are spanking you out of Catch, we find them popping up in Providence and idling for days at a time in our space. tbh, i wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for their frankly astonishingly bad combat record to date against U'K. You're not really even offering a challenge. It is almost like those pilots are floating around our space on 'black ops' whilst cunningly avoiding actually fighting the losing war you appear locked in. That said, I'm happy to see that faction drops in Providence are up as a result so feel free to keep sending the afk recons our way. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 15:05:00 - [49] Huh. Mr Cosmopolite seems to more or less get it. I'm not sure which is more surprising: that a Fractionite understands the CVA on at least a basic level or that I expected he would. Zoolkhan, my old foe...dear old foe if I may be so bold...the hatred between us and between the CVA and Ushra'Khan is much more befitting expressed in mortal combat. You and your pilots never fall short in that endeavor, so perhaps we should just leave it at that?
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.28 16:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Sapphrine yawns Whilst we're on the topic of Recon gangs operating in space. It would be nice if IAC were able to give a clear message on what they actually think.. I mean first of all we have you *****ing about people floating afk Coverts in your space for ages and then when your guys can't fly around your own space because Outbreak are spanking you out of Catch, we find them popping up in Providence and idling for days at a time in our space. tbh, i wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for their frankly astonishingly bad combat record to date against U'K. You're not really even offering a challenge. It is almost like those pilots are floating around our space on 'black ops' whilst cunningly avoiding actually fighting the losing war you appear locked in. That said, I'm happy to see that faction drops in Providence are up as a result so feel free to keep sending the afk recons our way. IAC didn't like it being done to us, does that mean we shouldn't do it to our enemies ? If it was a losing war we'd be doing worse as it progresses, not better Not even really a war, just predators doing what they do best. http://eve.klaki.net/
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.28 16:32:00 - [51] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 16:29:27 Originally by: zoolkhan Originally by: Solusar As for the Ushra'Khan posters here. You initiated hostilities vs IAC when they were a small alliance finding their feet in 0 security space. Stop trying to make it look like they are the bad guys here when you went after what you percieved to be a weak target. Bull**, we had neutral standings to them , and on individual base even friendly relations with IAC pilots until we payed back our debt to ISS. I wasn't in IAC at the time Solusar refers to, so I don't know if there was any hostility at that point in time. There were no official standings between the two alliances until you attacked us and indeed there was some friendship between certain elements, hostility between others. I myself approached Ushra'Khan at one point about setting up a NAP, but Maggot was not interested in discussions with the likes of me Perhaps if another diplomat had been dispatched the results would've been different. Originally by:** zoolkhan Since then IAC hates us, and is harassing us when it suits them. I must object, we do not hate you at all, indeed one of my slaves used to be a member of your High Council so I personally have considerable fondness for what I indirectly helped create. http://eve.klaki.net/
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 16:52:00 - [52] U'K had no hostile standings to IAC before the IAC/ISS war. Solusar is ignorant of the facts. No NAP was needed prior to the IAC/ISS war as U'K does not practice NBSI policies. U'K has never attacked neutrals in CVA space. Only those who directly state their allegance to the slaver paramilitaries have received swift justice. Reash is incorrect in his accusations and there is no evidence to prove otherwise.
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 17:50:00 - [53] I have personally witnessed UK attacking neutrals at random in CVA space on over a dozen seperate occasions. I suggest checking the kills of Paddington and FleshDiver and the pilots they fly with. Mind you i dont object to this-as afterall you are terrorists-but to deny it is comical in the extreme. The tone of our old enemy has really shifted these past months. A real air of defeatism, victimhood and bitterness-I expected more from our once noble enemy.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 18:04:00 - [54] The message is the same as it has always been since the day we came to Providence. The issue here is your blind support for IAC and your ignorance of what is actually happening. Knowing your penchant for drinking I can only assume your relationship with IAC is a mutually beneficial one and you are writing this in a cloud of your own drunken stench after a hard session on the spirits banned in your own empire.
Corelous Alterrian	Posted - 2007.04.28 19:07:00 - [55] Nobody cares about threats over the internet. Don't try to act hardcore with the keyboard. Fighting online is like racing in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded. Thats all I have to say about the pirate's in this Universe. Don't like it? TO BAD!!! Grow up and get a real job!
Tiger Ash	Posted - 2007.04.28 19:36:00 - [56] Edited by: Tiger Ash on 28/04/2007 19:32:39
Paddington	Posted - 2007.04.28 19:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Vantras I have personally witnessed UK attacking neutrals at random in CVA space on over a dozen seperate occasions. I suggest checking the kills of Paddington and FleshDiver and the pilots they fly with. Mind you i dont object to this-as afterall you are terrorists-but to deny it is comical in the extreme. The tone of our old enemy has really shifted these past months. A real air of defeatism, victimhood and bitterness-I expected more from our once noble enemy. I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I know there is little point me explaining my actions, they'll continue to tell the neutrals in the area i will attack them on site and this only gets them killed, if the neutrals were to explain they have no intention of helping CVA then they'd be let go. But the CVA loves to feed its populace propaganda about the bad terrorists.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 20:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 16:30:08 IAC didn't like it being done to us, does that mean we shouldn't do it to our enemies ? If it was a losing war we'd be doing worse as it progresses, not better Not even really a war, just predators doing what they do best, and prey adapting to their presence. No by all means use a viable tactic, just possibly restrain those elements of your Alliance that insist on shouting quite so bitterly. Personally I like the way it keeps our pilots on their toes. Its good to remember that 0.0 is not safe ever. I won't argue that you're doing better but i would question if the difference in the shade of failure really matters? :P I'm sure there was a point where the war odds looked decidedly rosier. There are always swings and roundabouts. Enjoy the fall bit of your fight :) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Vantras Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 20:37:00 - [59] Paddington I am trying to follow.. You target them, warp jam, web them, "lock them down" as you say...and....<gasp> They actually shoot at you? You then view this shooting as a hostile act? and conclude "they must be followers of the CVA they shot at me?!!".... Thats an entertaining system. Most of the time, when someone targets me, warp and webs me, I sorta view them as the agressor. I see that more Amarrian enlightment is required among the slaves. I will dispatch our best preacher Pezzle to your home shortly.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 20:57:00 - [60] OK since no one seems to be ignoring this thread I will break ranks to say this to the CVA. Bitternes? Yes, you are right. And it has reasons rooted in more than just losing QR. The very nature of your public bashing of our image shows you have already dropped the banner of respect on the floor yourselves. Tell me please why I should respect you now? And further more, every corporation in our ranks joined us because they believe in the cause against slavery. Every ally we gathered in the past joined us against you because they believed in the ideals we subscribe to. How many of your allies believe in your ideals of slavery and expansion of the Amarr empire? How many of them that you dragged into the QR with you to fight a war that you should be fighting were there for more than just the combat? How many of them did you trick into thinking that we were pirates just like you told Huzzah so they would join your defence gangs before we located to Providence? Cold Steel Alliance Sev3rance North Star Confederation Hardly renouned names in the pro-slavery camp. So why would they be interested in your fight against us unless you drag them with you? You open the floodgates and bring people who need have nothing to do with this fight into the arena to act as your cannon fodder and then expect us to maintain our composure? Respect you as we had done in the past? I have given you enough respect when I need not have. You will have no more. And on the subject, you have grown fairly fast too. How many of your new corporations actually share your desire to expand the empire? Or are they simply padding for your industrial and military strength? You are not what you once were CVA. And I can no longer respect you. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.04.28 21:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Darius Shakor And further more, every corporation in our ranks joined us because they believe in the cause against slavery. Every ally we gathered in the past joined us against you because they believed in the ideals we subscribe to. How many of your allies believe in your ideals of slavery and expansion of the Amarr empire? How many of them that you dragged into the QR with you to fight a war that you should be fighting were there for more than just the combat? How many of them did you trick into thinking that we were pirates just like you told Huzzah so they would join your defence gangs before we located to Providence? Cold Steel Alliance Sev3rance North Star Confederation Hardly renouned names in the pro-slavery camp. So why would they be interested in your fight against us unless you drag them with you? You open the floodgates and bring people who need have nothing to do with this fight into the arena to act as your cannon fodder and then expect us to maintain our composure? Respect you as we had done in the past? I have given you enough respect when I need not have. You will have no more. And on the subject, you have grown fairly fast too. How many of your new corporations actually share your desire to expand the empire? Or are they simply padding for your industrial and military strength? You are not what you once were CVA. And I can no longer respect you. I'd be cautious there. You had some corps in the past didn't know about the war ('Why are you shooting me in Amarr???') nor what U'K is standing for. We had to educate some of them (The Global ISK Network springs to mind immediately) quite regularly. Thus we very subjectively concluded at that time that U'K has started to pick up corps randomly to bolster your ranks. It is a very dangerous assumption - and I bet you will vehemently deny the above. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 21:29:00 - [62] Originally by: Darius Shakor OK since no one seems to be ignoring this thread I will break ranks to say this to the CVA. Bitternes? Yes, you are right. And it has reasons rooted in more than just losing QR. The very nature of your public bashing of our image shows you have already dropped the banner of respect on the floor yourselves. Tell me please why I should respect you now? And further more, every corporation in our ranks joined us because they believe in the cause against slavery. Every ally we gathered in the past joined us against you because they believed in the ideals we subscribe to. How many of your allies believe in your ideals of slavery and expansion of the Amarr empire? How many of them that you dragged into the QR with you to fight a war that you should be fighting were there for more than just the combat? How many of them did you trick into thinking that we were pirates just like you told Huzzah so they would join your defence gangs before we located to Providence? Cold Steel Alliance Sev3rance North Star Confederation Hardly renouned names in the pro-slavery camp. So why would they be interested in your fight against us unless you drag them with you? You open the floodgates and bring people who need have nothing to do with this fight into the arena to act as your cannon fodder and then expect us to maintain our composure? Respect you as we had done in the past? I have given you enough respect when I need not have. You will have no more. And on the subject, you have grown fairly fast too. How many of your new corporations actually share your desire to expand the empire? Or are they simply padding for your industrial and military strength? You are not what you once were CVA. And I can no longer respect you. Ushrakhan. Lets be frank here. You have put yourself in this boat. All of the alliances you have named are the alliances you have oepned fire on in providence during your "CVA and friends only" raids who dont really like you for exactly that reason, since you shot at them, those who came along out of friendship for us, and more important aminosity to you, caused by you. Whats more is you have the cheek to question us about our friends, when you bring pirates, who were not there because they believed in your ideals, and as well as this you send out broadcasts for help across all alliances. Hardly an anti-slaver bloc. Ushrakhan, unlike you we have standards in our recruitment. Before any corporation joins there is an extensive observation period, and checks to make sure they live upto our standards and agree with our ideals. Of course, by the number of corporations that have left Ushrakhan recently, it hardly seems like these are in your alliance to fight the forces of slavery. Is it not central defiance who left a few months ago because they did not believe in the cause, and who now pirate next to systems you propogate unmolested by your forces? CVA are not once they were. We are stronger, but our cause and belief remains the same. Unless you can say the same Darius do not accuse us of thing which are not true, and do not blame us because those you have shot and killed choose to shoot you back. The Amarr shall prevail, and you shall fall terrorist. And public bashing of your image? Quite simply, you are terrorists, you raid my empire and kill those who take advantage of the free space policy we operate. It is our job to crush you beneath our heels. You reap what you sow, deal with it. You have lost respect for us? I still hold respect for the prowess of some of your pilots, but the Ushrakhan name means nothing and its honour is in tatters.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.28 23:15:00 - [63] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin You reap what you sow, deal with it. You have lost respect for us? I still hold respect for the prowess of some of your pilots, but the Ushrakhan name means nothing and its honour is in tatters. Remember the past and how thing revolve in cycles. Remember this quote in the future, you reap what you sow. You may well have lost respect for us (if a group that believes in divine righteousness can ever have respect for others) but your most recent attempts at a mini 'reclamation' only furthers the view of you as mindless space grabbers using an emporers 'will' as your justification. You are after all, paramilitaries also. Ushrakhan is a cause, and it always has been. It means something to those that believe in it and they are still quite numerous. That can not be killed by your mindless grabbing of space. As for honour, why would we expect you to say any less? Honour is kept amongst friends and noble enemies. I only see shadows of what once was noble. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Stanley Savior	Posted - 2007.04.29 01:51:00 - [64] Quote: Originally by: Stanley Savior -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- nah i doubt it they always cloak them selves. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speaking from personal experience now?
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.29 18:27:00 - [65] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 29/04/2007 18:23:44 Originally by: Darius Shakor OK since no one seems to be ignoring this thread I will break ranks to say this to the CVA. Bitternes? Yes, you are right. And it has reasons rooted in more than just losing QR. The very nature of your public bashing of our image shows you have already dropped the banner of respect on the floor yourselves. Tell me please why I should respect you now? And further more, every corporation in our ranks joined us because they believe in the cause against slavery. Every ally we gathered in the past joined us against you because they believed in the ideals we subscribe to. How many of your allies believe in your ideals of slavery and expansion of the Amarr empire? How many of them that you dragged into the QR with you to fight a war that you should be fighting were there for more than just the combat? How many of them did you trick into thinking that we were pirates just like you told Huzzah so they would join your defence gangs before we located to Providence? Cold Steel Alliance Sev3rance North Star Confederation Hardly renouned names in the pro-slavery camp. So why would they be interested in your fight against us unless you drag them with you? You open the floodgates and bring people who need have nothing to do with this fight into the arena to act as your cannon fodder and then expect us to maintain our composure? Respect you as we had done in the past? I have given you enough respect when I need not have. You will have no more. And on the subject, you have grown fairly fast too. How many of your new corporations actually share your desire to expand the empire? Or are they simply padding for your industrial and military strength? You are not what you once were CVA. And I can no longer respect you. The sound the IGS can hear now is the sound of the scales dropping from your eyes Darius. The realization you reach in the paragraphs above is rent with disappointment and disillusioned frustration but shines from within with the golden hope of a better future. Cherish this bitterness and anger Darius and use it - forge a weapon to better strike back against these creatures and then when you are ready to truly hurt them it will be time for us to speak again. Star Fraction is recruiting
Corelous Alterrian	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:36:00 - [66] Being a pirate is like racing in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still a retard! Have faith in God he will give you justice. Freedom is a choice, Have you made yours?
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.30 00:02:00 - [67] For what it is worth I removed my post at maggot's request. If those that quoted want to follow up thats your business. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.30 06:49:00 - [68] Originally by: Corelous Alterrian Being a pirate is like racing in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still a retard! while funny for the average 13yr old schoolkid (until he loses a leg in the next car accident) it is not so funny for us who have seen wars IC as well as OC i would expect this peace of ooc/political incorrectnes to be removed A.S.A.P U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.30 08:00:00 - [69] The previous exchanges of vitirol should be beneath the representatives of both U'K and the CVA. ----------------------------------------------
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:44:00 - [70] Originally by: Darius Shakor For what it is worth I removed my post at maggot's request. If those that quoted want to follow up thats your business. Since you wish to retract your words I'll retract the quoting of them in respect. Star Fraction is recruiting
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:19:00 - [71] Quote: I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I guess my only question is how do you ask the question? Secondly how do you define support. Example: Terrorist> Do you support the CVA? Innocent Pilot> Yes BOOM! But what do they support? Do they support the concept of slavery? Do they support the concept of expansion of the Amarr Empire? What is it they're supporting when they say yes? Perhaps they support the taming of an untamed land, perhaps they support the open space and freedom to travel relatively free of danger, perhaps they support the right to live in a place with these benefits as long as they remain law abiding. These are all admirable accomplishments brought to the benefit of mankind by the CVA. I support many things that are accomplishments of groups and individuals but that in no way indicates I support their underlying ideology. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG
Paddington	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:45:00 - [72] Originally by: Archbishop Quote: I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I guess my only question is how do you ask the question? Secondly how do you define support. Example: Terrorist> Do you support the CVA? Innocent Pilot> Yes BOOM! But what do they support? Do they support the concept of slavery? Do they support the concept of expansion of the Amarr Empire? What is it they're supporting when they say yes? Perhaps they support the taming of an untamed land, perhaps they support the open space and freedom to travel relatively free of danger, perhaps they support the right to live in a place with these benefits as long as they remain law abiding. These are all admirable accomplishments brought to the benefit of mankind by the CVA. I support many things that are accomplishments of groups and individuals but that in no way indicates I support their underlying ideology. Archbishop The Amarr Empire and the CVA is the scourge of mankind, if someone says they support them then they understand, even at the most basic level what CVA does and is willing to do to other humans. Your friends are not blind, they just choose to not see, I only try to open their eyes. You can plead their innocence all you like but you cannot fool me. No one is free until everyone is free.
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.04.30 21:51:00 - [73] Edited by: Redpants on 30/04/2007 21:50:07 Originally by: Paddington The Amarr Empire and the CVA is the scourge of mankind, if someone says they support them then they understand, even at the most basic level what CVA does and is willing to do to other humans... It's my understanding that CVA doesn't do anything to humans, just Minmatars. "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.04.30 21:53:00 - [74] OTHER humans. That's what I meant to say...easy mistake. "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.04.30 22:16:00 - [75] Originally by: Redpants Edited by: Redpants on 30/04/2007 21:50:07 Originally by: Paddington The Amarr Empire and the CVA is the scourge of mankind, if someone says they support them then they understand, even at the most basic level what CVA does and is willing to do to other humans... It's my understanding that CVA doesn't do anything to humans, just Minmatars. Said with all the wit of a four year old. ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong" - Unknown
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.01 00:01:00 - [76] I would like to make a point here. Ushrakhan are terrotists and essentially pirates. They support pirates from their station, there is no denying this. They allow ENH to operate out of Unity because they couldnt deal with them I imagine, and they allow BUM to operate from there in their piracy throughout Providence, on neutral, friend and foe alike. Ushrakhan you have fallen far. You are beyond redemption. You are beyond respect.
Shina Windol Caldari Raging Phoenix Incorporated North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:58:00 - [77] Originally by: Archbishop Quote: I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I guess my only question is how do you ask the question? Secondly how do you define support. Example: Terrorist> Do you support the CVA? Innocent Pilot> Yes BOOM! But what do they support? Do they support the concept of slavery? Do they support the concept of expansion of the Amarr Empire? What is it they're supporting when they say yes? Perhaps they support the taming of an untamed land, perhaps they support the open space and freedom to travel relatively free of danger, perhaps they support the right to live in a place with these benefits as long as they remain law abiding. These are all admirable accomplishments brought to the benefit of mankind by the CVA. I support many things that are accomplishments of groups and individuals but that in no way indicates I support their underlying ideology. Archbishop Aye. Though I am but a mere Caldari living in a land far away from the land of my fore-fathers, I have found myself and those who have entrusted their wellbeing to my care face the guns of the Ushra'Khan. I am an anti-pirate...plain and simple. I hold my people to the same standards as I hold myself. Within the first week of North Star Confederation having first stepped foot into the Providence Region, we found ourselves actively targeted by the Ushra'Khan and by those that operate out of their space. I look at this conflict and I do indeed ask myself questions like Archbishop has proposed. Do I support slavery? Personally I do not approve of the institution but that is MY culture...the Amarr have theirs and it is from theirs that ANY change on the matter must come from. Do I support the expansion of the Amarr Empire? I find myself indifferent on the expansion of the Empire, but I DO find myself supporting the safety, freedom, and opportunity that such an expansion brings. I do not share all of the ideals of CVA, of that I freely admit. I will NOT, however, stand by and see my people, and those innocents who have done nothing more than set foot into CVA claimed space, actively hunted and pursued by the Ushra'Khan and by those "allies" of theirs that sortee from Unity Station to pirate in order to fight a war. By shooting neutrals that say 'yes' in the way that I do, good sir, you venture into political spheres that contain consequences that are best left untouched. For it is because of actions such as that that cause me, and people like me, to have no pity for the Minmatar cause and those that "fight" for it. THAT, sir, is why I fight alongside of CVA and why I am PROUD to call them friends and that that 'yes, I do support them' because, good sir, despite the issue and no matter how pitched the battle, they take their duties seriously and put their faith and honor at stake to keep the innocents safe. I have seen no such effort from Ushra'Khan, only actions that undermine the support of your position and the arguments that you make. THAT, good sir, is why I shall never have pity for the cause or plight of the Ushra'Khan and why I will feel no remorse when activating my modules upon those who show exactly why the term 'terrorist' is used to describe them. May you come to realize the error in your ways and may whatever god you believe in have mercy on you when you come to be judged, for until the day Ushra'Khan decides to fight with honor, I will have none. May those of Providence live and prosper in stability by the precepts of honor and integrity. ---------------------------------- Shina Windol Executor of the North Star Confederation CEO of Raging Phoenix Incorporated 1st Fleet Overseer, Iron Guard Legion NSTAR SDF
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 02:24:00 - [78] In the last few days alone I have been called terrorist, fanatic, murderer, traitor and pirate. I may inspire terror in those who would enslave my people but I am not a terrorist. I leave that to the Amarr and their death camps. If I am fanatical then is born of a love of freedom and of my people. I will defend both with every fibre of my being. I have killed many but I am no murderer. Either directly or by proxy those who have fallen under my guns had the blood of my people on their hands. A traitor to a political system that betrays it's own people is no traitor at all. I am no pirate, my people are not a commodity to be stolen. Those who transport my people are not traders, they are hostage takers and war criminals. You can call me all the names you like. It changes nothing. I see the true face of the CVA and their lackeys. I see their 'associates' attacking civilian shipping. I see all of that and more with my own eyes so your flimsy denials and spin doctoring mean nothing to me. I will not waste by breath countering these baseless accusations and sensationalist hype as frankly it is beneath me. As long as you terrorise our people and enslave them there will always be war between us and wars are not won on GalNet. >> RECRUITING <<
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.01 06:29:00 - [79] CVA's associates, or "associates" as you put it attacking neutral civilian shipping? These must not be real associates or you wouldn't have put the term in quotations. Either way Minmatar, I find it hard to believe. Here's what I do believe. While I'm not a personal backer of the Amarrian Empire or many of their policies including the slave trade, I believe that the Ushra'Khan are opportunistic, dishonorable thugs who rove the Providence region NOT to ensure its security but to raise hell for the sake of raising hell and to be a general thorn in the side of its residents. I believe that much of your actions in that Minmatar insanity club you call Ushra'Khan are not backed by some glorious and noble cause for freedom but piracy with a fancy excuse for piracy. Nothing more. Few people in New Eden agree with slaving outside the Amarrian territories, so ask yourselves why is it that you all have such an uphill battle in gaining respect and backing from those not personally rooted in the struggle? Ushra'Khan should have the support of 3/4 of the galaxy in terms of sympathizers, yet you are on the short end of the stick. Why? Is it because your Alliance beats its war drums for a hollow cause due to your collective actions and blatent propaganda? Is it because CVA stands on a pillar far above the dirt hole Ushra'Khan has for ground to stand on? Is it because CVA and the Amarrians show true grit and honor, and honor truth and loyalty where Ushra'Khan is selfish and irresponsible with their policies, actions and dealings with pilots of neighboring systems? Maybe those aren't simple questions with simple answers. But all I know is I once felt that in the beginning, Ushra'Khan was on the "good" side of what seemed "right." After meeting this sect of Minmatars in space however that impression has been shattered by your aggressions and conduct. CVA and the Amarrians I deal with daily, have earned my respect and trust. I stand with them. "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 07:54:00 - [80] Quote: Few people in New Eden agree with slaving outside the Amarrian territories, so ask yourselves why is it that you all have such an uphill battle in gaining respect and backing from those not personally rooted in the struggle? Ushra'Khan should have the support of 3/4 of the galaxy in terms of sympathizers, yet you are on the short end of the stick. Why? Because 3/4 of the galaxy care more about lining their own pockets than other people. Because 3/4 of the galaxy are complacent to turn a blind eye to the suffering of others as long as it does not concern them directly. Because 3/4 of the galaxy would not risk their lives to help the nameless, opressed, faceless victims of a cruel regime which is far, far removed from the comfort of their own places of dwelling. But you know what? We care not. We believe in our struggle. We live our struggle. We are fanatics. And as such, we cannot and shall not be broken or swayed from the course of truth and justice by any force, least of all by hollow propaganda of the CVA and their supporters. Now you may go along with the idea that frowning or sadly shaking your head when you see news of another Amarr raid which enslaved thousands of people is enough to mark you as a "supporter" of freedom. In the face of lunacy that pervades the entire Amarr society and even infects those beyond their borders with dreams of greed and power over other people simply shaking one's head and frowning will never ever be enough.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 08:21:00 - [81] Redpants, the associates remark was directed very specifically. Your masters know what I mean and I have no reason or desire to explain it to the galactic community. You chose to support the slavery and oppression of our people. That makes you my enemy. I do not care if you only do it for profit, you support slavery. Hurl all the bitter little insults you like, you chose your path. >> RECRUITING <<
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.01 08:39:00 - [82] From my point of view you fail to understand our reason to be, NSC. We are not in Providence to provide safety for residents or bypassers. We are not there to establish order and civilization. We are there to have a basis for our operations in the fight for our brothers freedom. We fight CVA and alike. With whatever means we have. I don't care who passes by or who wants to live there. If he minds his own business, fine by me. If he starts to support slavers, directly or indirectly, I will engage him. I will fight every possible way for my brothers in chains. So yes, if you want security and order, ask CVA. If you want a backbone and a common understanding of Ethics, better not. As my previous speaker said, you are like most of the universe (I'd say even more like 95%): You care for a cause if it benefits you personally. If it doesn't you give a damn about people suffering. Now think for a moment who the true pirate is here.
Tiger Ash	Posted - 2007.05.01 10:02:00 - [83] Edited by: Tiger Ash on 01/05/2007 09:58:13
Paddington	Posted - 2007.05.01 10:59:00 - [84] 1) You call an Amarrian backed space a free state? You really have swallowed a lot of the old propaganda... 2) I have spoken to members of the alliance North Star Confederation, they told me the only reason you buddied up with CVA is because they are "Strong" Now that you find they cannot defend their slave tenants, you call the Ushrakhan un-honourable... you make me laugh. 3) NSF if you do not believe in what the CVA is doing, you are just in providence to line your pockets at the expensive of the CVA and thier slaves. You show weak morals and ideals, even if you say you donÆt support slavery you are willing to turn a blind eye to it? I am glad you are not on our "side". So enough is enough, you have made your intentions clear, you are weak minded sheep!
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:50:00 - [85] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin They allow ENH to operate out of Unity because they couldnt deal with them I imagine Out of respect for you Ikar, one I consider an honorable foe I will respond to this. You have a fertile imagination though, I guess thats displaced from your withered loins? The facts are simple, ENH approached us offering to unite with us against a common foe. We knocked them back out of respect for our neighbours. Our neighbours meanwhile forged NAPs with the likes of yourselves and the alchos you call friends - at knife point as it were - but none-the-less they knowingly took that step. We kept on fighting ENH regardless, knowing of the change in power about us, knowing that many we called friends were now at least tacitly supporting you, fighting pretty much alone accept for those who don't forget like BUM. Then ENH approached us again and this time we listened harder. The message was clear, they wished to fight with us against you, the slaver, the oppressors of humanity. Does it suprise you that those you lable 'pirate' can loathe slavery as much as the next man? It saddens me to see the more peaceful peoples of providence turn their backs on us and embrace the hypocritical 'security' CVA offer, but you reap what you sow. There is no sitting on the fence with matters of life and death. No, that is not a declaration of war on our old friends in Providence. I for one still hold hope they will see the sense in standing up to your strongarm diplomacy. You Ikar, you and your ilk are the enemy, we do what we must to fight you. Remember that. Death to slavery! ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.01 13:13:00 - [86] Look into their methods of fighting, because yesterday they tried to ransom a member of PIE just 1 jump from your outpost in a bubble camp.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Look into their methods of fighting, because yesterday they tried to ransom a member of PIE just 1 jump from your outpost in a bubble camp. I hope the pilot failed to pay and died.
Black Necris	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:11:00 - [88] Originally by: Archbishop Quote: I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I guess my only question is how do you ask the question? Secondly how do you define support. Example: Terrorist> Do you support the CVA? Innocent Pilot> Yes BOOM! But what do they support? Do they support the concept of slavery? Do they support the concept of expansion of the Amarr Empire? What is it they're supporting when they say yes? Perhaps they support the taming of an untamed land, perhaps they support the open space and freedom to travel relatively free of danger, perhaps they support the right to live in a place with these benefits as long as they remain law abiding. These are all admirable accomplishments brought to the benefit of mankind by the CVA. I support many things that are accomplishments of groups and individuals but that in no way indicates I support their underlying ideology. Archbishop I have seen CVA roam our space with neutrals who are on a two man corp, and even drop a "amarr victor" dumb thing on local. The stop and questioning its as fair as it can be.. will CVA dont shoot a neutral if his bio says UK friendly?? dont claim you wont cose i have seen it happen also...
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:14:00 - [89] I am sure he paid whatever was asked to rescue his miserable life. No slaver scum pilot one jump away from our system should wonder if he loses his life by whomever. Stick to your mighty empire and go read books, this area is not safe for you.
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:02:00 - [90] Originally by: Black Necris Originally by: Archbishop Quote: I'd like to just step in and defend myself here, i'm no pirate, everyone of these so called "neutrals" that i have executed has been a supporter of CVA. I will lock down neutrals and ask them of their intentions and their relationship with CVA, i will only open fire if they admit they support the CVA. I guess my only question is how do you ask the question? Secondly how do you define support. Example: Terrorist> Do you support the CVA? Innocent Pilot> Yes BOOM! But what do they support? Do they support the concept of slavery? Do they support the concept of expansion of the Amarr Empire? What is it they're supporting when they say yes? Perhaps they support the taming of an untamed land, perhaps they support the open space and freedom to travel relatively free of danger, perhaps they support the right to live in a place with these benefits as long as they remain law abiding. These are all admirable accomplishments brought to the benefit of mankind by the CVA. I support many things that are accomplishments of groups and individuals but that in no way indicates I support their underlying ideology. Archbishop I have seen CVA roam our space with neutrals who are on a two man corp, and even drop a "amarr victor" dumb thing on local. The stop and questioning its as fair as it can be.. will CVA dont shoot a neutral if his bio says UK friendly?? dont claim you wont cose i have seen it happen also... No, we dont shoot people because they have UK friendly in their bio. People are legitematly allowed to go about their business in 9uy, we respect their decision. We recognise people put that so that certain elements wont shoot them when they are there. We only attack people who have proven themselves hostile to us.
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:16:00 - [91] Originally by: Maggot Originally by: Raane Thyandar Look into their methods of fighting, because yesterday they tried to ransom a member of PIE just 1 jump from your outpost in a bubble camp. I hope the pilot failed to pay and died. No, the ransomers were too busy talking and he manoevured free of the bubble and escaped. I don't know about you but if i find a terrorist, and am in position to defeat him, i don't ransom him. I shoot him. Ransoming pilots, is what pirates do. These Einherjar folks seem to have more commitment to their wallets than the 'cause'.
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:23:00 - [92] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 01/05/2007 16:24:14 How is ransoming worthy of such scorn? We are giving the pilot a choice. He can either lose all his mods, pod, and ship; or at a price he can keep it if he deems the price a good deal relative to the previous option. This in the end is because we at Einherjar Rising are such kind individuals.
Shina Windol Caldari Raging Phoenix Incorporated North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:23:00 - [93] Originally by: Kabajashi San From my point of view you fail to understand our reason to be, NSC. We are not in Providence to provide safety for residents or bypassers. We are not there to establish order and civilization. We are there to have a basis for our operations in the fight for our brothers freedom. We fight CVA and alike. With whatever means we have. And from my point of view you fail to understand our reason to fight you, U'K. We are in Providence to fight pirates and to make it safe for business to continue as usual, whether it is ratting, mining, or conducting trade. From friends and enemies alike, and even from some in your own alliance, Minmatar, I have heard that ALL major alliances in Providence, no matter what their disagreements, operate under NRDS. From what I have seen both in here and in the cold darkness of space, apparently this does not apply to the Ushra'Khan. Some of your very own members claim to be anti-pirates, Minmatar, and that is what dooms you to dishonor in this fight. Do you shoot the Amarrian slavers? I've seen it numerous times. But in the process you also shoot those who have no involvement in your conflict, and that, my friend, has led you to operate like pirates. If it were not for that, I doubt the North Star Confederation would have this conflict with you and this opposition to you. But alas you have made your choice clear, and we must make the choice between two moral issues...slavery and piracy. The first is a localized moral dilemma that is culturally based, but the latter is a universal issue and a universal problem. Clearly you have made piracy the larger and more dangerous of the two issues and so we take the stance against you. Even when conducting operations against you, Minmatar, we leave your neutrals be unless they take direct action against us. We will not stoop to the same levels to achieve our goals. You "fight CVA and alike with whatever means you have." Well, Minmatar, we fight back against Ushra'Khan and alike with whatever means WE have, but we WILL NOT compromise ourselves to do so. You have made your choice clear as have we, and we shall meet on the field of battle. Until then, I must say long live the Confederation and may the Amarr be blest with victory this day. ---------------------------------- Shina Windol Executor of the North Star Confederation CEO of Raging Phoenix Incorporated 1st Fleet Overseer, Iron Guard Legion NSTAR SDF
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:27:00 - [94] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio How is ransoming worthy of such scorn? We are giving the pilot a choice. He can either lose all his mods, pod, and ship; or at a price he can keep it if he deems the price a good deal relative to the previous option. Indeed. Although I prefer a corpse to take home to the freezer I would take pleasure in knowing a slavers coffers were drained.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:38:00 - [95] Originally by: Shina Windol Originally by: Kabajashi San From my point of view you fail to understand our reason to be, NSC. We are not in Providence to provide safety for residents or bypassers. We are not there to establish order and civilization. We are there to have a basis for our operations in the fight for our brothers freedom. We fight CVA and alike. With whatever means we have. And from my point of view you fail to understand our reason to fight you, U'K. We are in Providence to fight pirates and to make it safe for business to continue as usual, whether it is ratting, mining, or conducting trade. From friends and enemies alike, and even from some in your own alliance, Minmatar, I have heard that ALL major alliances in Providence, no matter what their disagreements, operate under NRDS. From what I have seen both in here and in the cold darkness of space, apparently this does not apply to the Ushra'Khan. Some of your very own members claim to be anti-pirates, Minmatar, and that is what dooms you to dishonor in this fight. Do you shoot the Amarrian slavers? I've seen it numerous times. But in the process you also shoot those who have no involvement in your conflict, and that, my friend, has led you to operate like pirates. If it were not for that, I doubt the North Star Confederation would have this conflict with you and this opposition to you. But alas you have made your choice clear, and we must make the choice between two moral issues...slavery and piracy. The first is a localized moral dilemma that is culturally based, but the latter is a universal issue and a universal problem. Clearly you have made piracy the larger and more dangerous of the two issues and so we take the stance against you. Even when conducting operations against you, Minmatar, we leave your neutrals be unless they take direct action against us. We will not stoop to the same levels to achieve our goals. You "fight CVA and alike with whatever means you have." Well, Minmatar, we fight back against Ushra'Khan and alike with whatever means WE have, but we WILL NOT compromise ourselves to do so. You have made your choice clear as have we, and we shall meet on the field of battle. Until then, I must say long live the Confederation and may the Amarr be blest with victory this day. Anyone who associates themselves with CVA is considered a valid target. That has always been our policy from the very first day we arrived in Providence over one year ago. U'K has never been involved in piracy. Your words mean nothing.
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:40:00 - [96] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 01/05/2007 16:39:11 I'd just like to say, I could go on and on and on like some of the more verbose posters in this thread; but that just isn't my way. My diplomacy is my ship, and my actions. Einherjar Rising is an NBSI corp. We are not here because we love everyone and want to mine crokite all day long. We are here to have a good time. We have allied with UK because they are also another organization in the area who we have grown to appreciate, and who seem to have a better grasp of the way to live than CVA and its "friends" cough nap us or die end cough CVA have for far too long tried to use their entrenched power, knowledge of how to make a short sentence a novel, and complete lack of modesty to rule the area known as Providence. If CVA were to gain control of providence I would only imagine how boring the area would be. CVA doesn't try to make friends, instead they use their mobs to instill their will on the surrounding area. Peace might be created, but at the expense of people's dignity. People should be allowed to do what they want, how they want. Choice my friends is what brings UK and Einherjar Rising together. The choice of "to each their own".
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.01 16:42:00 - [97] Providence seems terribly free with the label "Pirate". For those not familiar with the dialect, let me translate it for you: "Someone who has not submitted to my rule." This is "Pirate" as it is preached in Providence it seems. I am fairly certain CONCORD, whose joint jurisdiction and quite effective military forces, has demonstrated repeatedly that CVA's definition does not match their own. CVA will happily encroach upon their protected space of commerce and peace without legal justification. Why, illegal pursuit of self-interest by destroying and robbing from others? How.. how.. piratical! 0.0 on the other hand, knows no such label. In this space there is only sworn ally, cautious friend, and he who shall be treated as hostile. In such space, you negotiate your business first, or you defend it with force. Any other path is folly that leads to death. In any case, it matters not. Speak your propaganda. The weak are numerous and will agree to anything if they think it will allow them to grovel in the dark for another day. Our business is our own and will not be changed by your labels, your servants, or even by UK desires. We will see to it as we always have, with blood.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 17:57:00 - [98] The more I think about it, the more the CVA's approach to Providence reminds me of holo reels i saw of these old Earth Gangsta's. I'll give that they're more benevolent, they don't seem to extort direct financial tiefs from others all that much but they do basically strongarm everyone to their side with the absolute threat of violence if they say nay.... Now i'm a pirate because I try to free an oppressed people and will kill anyone supporting those that support the slavers? Come on... smear tactics only work when you have an ounce of credibility left. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.01 18:43:00 - [99] Originally by: Sapphrine The more I think about it, the more the CVA's approach Now i'm a pirate because I try to free an oppressed people and will kill anyone supporting those that support the slavers? Come on... smear tactics only work when you have an ounce of credibility left. No, you're not a pirate - for your actions against the Empire you're a terrorist.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.05.01 19:07:00 - [100] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Originally by: Sapphrine The more I think about it, the more the CVA's approach Now i'm a pirate because I try to free an oppressed people and will kill anyone supporting those that support the slavers? Come on... smear tactics only work when you have an ounce of credibility left. No, you're not a pirate - for your actions against the Empire you're a terrorist. Funny, that particular edict has not issued by any of Imperial Agencies. Seems that PIE is attempting to make Imperial Law yet again. Will they never learn? Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Tenebrion Darkness	Posted - 2007.05.01 19:24:00 - [101] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac Originally by: Raane Thyandar [ No, you're not a pirate - for your actions against the Empire you're a terrorist. Funny, that particular edict has not issued by any of Imperial Agencies. Seems that PIE is attempting to make Imperial Law yet again. Will they never learn? This is a worn out argument against the CVA, and it has been pointed out many times, that their statements are their own and not those of the Empire.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.01 20:41:00 - [102] Just let me get a short answer to this, Shina Windol. I respect your choices, the answer will be given on the battle field. I just don't want to give you a wrong impression what this is about. I'm speaking here for myself, I have no role or significance in my alliance or corp of whatever nature. I believe everyone must stand up for his own choices. But I strongly oppose to the accusation of fighting dishonourable. I have fought and I will fight anyone supporting slavery. This is not a question of what standing he has set or what the reasons for his actions may be. The same I can say from my experience goes to UK. If indeed a neutral was shot I disagree with such action. But moreover I believe that there are very few neutrals in this area. There are more people like yourself who go after their selfish interests and deny the suffering of our brothers. There are people who bundle with CVA and wonder why they are considered legitimate targets for UK. We don't wait until a neutral takes any actions against us, it is enough if he takes actions, direct or indirect, against our brothers in chains. For we are one kin and what you do to them you do to us. You know, there is much talking about UK being pirates or terrorists or whatever. I don't care the label as I know my true self. Yet I object this crude morality where a man fighting for the freedom of his brothers is considered less than a man causing endless pain to others. And I object CVA fooling around with labels and everyone falling for it. Who was it who flew alongside CVA when they took QR? Who was it whose action they ignored because they helped them out against UK? These are true pirates, by their actions and by their morality. They have no honour of whatever kind. A pirate is not a man attacking neutrals or shooting people for money. A pirate is a man putting his own personal interests above his cause. A man seeking cheap opportunities to do pain to others and not suffer the consequenses. A man with no conciousness, blind to the suffering of others, filled with egoism and selfishness. This a label that doesn't fit UK.
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.01 21:40:00 - [103] Sorry for the interruption What is NBSI and NRDS? Thank You
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.01 22:09:00 - [104] Einherjar Rising has been conducting pirate raids on Providence for many months, including when they were members of Dusk and Dawn. They are pirates. We have heard these claims before, 'there are no pirates in outlying space'. This is a lie, a lie told to cover guilt. Ushra Khan open their doors to those who would disrupt honest pilots. They apparently surrendered to Einherjar Rising. They also gave in to Hobo's, another pirate group. CVA have a long history of antipiracy and honest dealings. Our record stands against these critics.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.01 22:19:00 - [105] NBSI = not blue shoot it NRDS = not red don't shoot http://eve.klaki.net/
metalic Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.01 22:41:00 - [106] I seem to remember that CVA had no problems with me pirating NOS as a member of momentum, and infact i seem to remember that they even condoned it.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 22:51:00 - [107] Originally by: Pezzle Ushra Khan open their doors to those who would disrupt honest pilots. They apparently surrendered to Einherjar Rising. They also gave in to Hobo's, another pirate group. Comedy. Pure Morphite.
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:25:00 - [108] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 01/05/2007 23:22:26 Yes it is true, Maggot gave up when I jumped into 9uy and dropped 30 secure audit cans around UNITY with slaves inside, set to "read only" access.
EveJoker Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:34:00 - [109] Perhaps the slavers could explain the difference between IAC's and EHN's NBSI policy so I can understand why one side is pirate, the other not. I allways thought pirates randsom people.
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.02 00:22:00 - [110] Originally by: Pezzle Einherjar Rising has been conducting pirate raids on Providence for many months, including when they were members of Dusk and Dawn. They are pirates. We have heard these claims before, 'there are no pirates in outlying space'. This is a lie, a lie told to cover guilt. Ushra Khan open their doors to those who would disrupt honest pilots. They apparently surrendered to Einherjar Rising. They also gave in to Hobo's, another pirate group. CVA have a long history of antipiracy and honest dealings. Our record stands against these critics. seriously, thats a good one, CVA's long history of antipiracy and honest dealings... here let me just park my dreads on the edge of your pos... now... what was that about saying no again to us? I haven't laughed this much in a long time. CVA... honest..... drug injecting manipulating slavers.... honest.... giggles oh and giving in... I think you'll find both groups approached U'K and a deal based on mutual respect was struck in both cases... Far more than can be said for CVA's recent deals I'd imagine.. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 03:06:00 - [111] Contrary to what the UK and their pirate accomplices would like the public to believe, it is very easy to be left in peace by the CVA. To the UK: How does it feel to have given in, to have surrendered your opposition of piracy for some meager promises? How did it feel to swallow your pride, surrender that part of your identity? With each infraction you become that much more of a beast. The den of decay will be purged. Those of you with any self respect left should abandon such a place. Think of something wholesome. Think of something other than your mindless lust for violence. See here how your senses have abandoned you. Drinking of the pirates poisoned chalice will only bring you further harm.
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:17:00 - [112] CVA arent pirates, they just have a unique ROE. Most people are either NBSI, or NRDS, CVA are IAPSI! (its a pirate shoot it) trouble is, by their definition of the word everyone who doesnt bend to their will and roll over is deemed to be a pirate. Now Recruiting
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.02 10:41:00 - [113] Originally by: metalic I seem to remember that CVA had no problems with me pirating NOS as a member of momentum, and infact i seem to remember that they even condoned it. Hahaha, I was waiting for the truth of that to come out. I recall it well, NOS had decided they were sick of living under CVA jackboots so they approached us to discuss a peace treaty and if I recall a mutual defence pact. Then Momentum turn up to knock seven shades out of them until they cut ties with us and chose a leader compliant to the will of the CVA to 'lead' them. Amarr hypocrisy at it's best. >> RECRUITING <<
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 10:51:00 - [114] Ok....Simply. Ushrakhan are terrorists. For too long they had been playing the public role of anti-pirate. When it comes down to it, under the onslaught of the mighty Amarrian fleets their numbers are reducing, many are abandoning the cause in desperation and hopelessness, they are running out of will to fight, they are running out of people willing to fight. Their allies have been crushed or have seen the light, or have been betrayed by Ushrakhan in their paranoia of their betters coming to shoot them. Now to maintain what little they have they have allied themselves with pirates to defend themselves. This is their choice, but they shall also fall before the cleansing lasers of Amarr justice. Ushrakhan have fallen as low as they can go, in desperation. I chuckle as I see you fly with so many pirates? Why? Because Im not even sure the other loyalists would come to help you now if you called. You stand now for everything they dont. The likes of EM and NMTZ. They fight piracy in the name of protecting the people of the Republic, but what off you? You turned your back on the Republic, you ally yourselves with those who your friends fight. Ushrakhan are dieing. The Amarr will be victourious in this struggle as they always are. You ally yourselves with those who will abandon you when things reach their worst....I pity you terrorists, not because I know your are beaten. But because you know you are beaten, and all this posturing by your members here is a vain attempts to convince yourselves you are not. Good luck with that. Now these channels are making come into contact with you filth more than I like, so I am going to refrain from reading these threads from now on. If you have a point to make to me please broadcast it to my ship or just die under my lasers. Im good either way. Ikar Kaltin
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.02 13:35:00 - [115] Ok....Simply. Amarr are terrorists. For too long they had been playing the public role of big brother. When it comes down to it, under the onslaught of the pesky UK fleets their numbers are blobbing, many are bandwaggoning the cause through CVA's bullying, they are being manhandled out of will to fight, they are making people unable to fight through naps. Their pets have been subdued or have seen the "light", meaning they have been "told" by CVA in their paranoia of their betters coming to shoot them, to forget their loyalties or else big daddy Amarr might get angry.
Tiger Ash	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:57:00 - [116] Edited by: Tiger Ash on 02/05/2007 14:53:38
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Pezzle Contrary to what the UK and their pirate accomplices would like the public to believe, it is very easy to be left in peace by the CVA. To the UK: How does it feel to have given in, to have surrendered your opposition of piracy for some meager promises? How did it feel to swallow your pride, surrender that part of your identity? With each infraction you become that much more of a beast. The den of decay will be purged. Those of you with any self respect left should abandon such a place. Think of something wholesome. Think of something other than your mindless lust for violence. See here how your senses have abandoned you. Drinking of the pirates poisoned chalice will only bring you further harm. I'm sure ENH and BUM wouldn't really care for being called our accomplices, they were quite happy to poke you before talking to us. And U'K is quite aware of what it takes to be left alone by CVA. Its the threats and intimidation that you manage to leave out of these threads that we tend to see more often. Also, your relationships with IAC and those RAGOONS must be gaining you some good grog because i'd just love to know what you've been drinking to think a soverign power operating NRDS in its space has given in to piracy especially when the allies you have mentioned are also operating the same in our space. As for the rest, i've heard it all before. You call us beasts and say you'll cleanse us. I say you're murdering thugs who enslave people out of a deluded loyalty to a fake cause. CVA, for an alliance claiming to be in a position of power, you're doing an awful lot of posturing and smear campaigning. we'll stick to facts on our side if its all the same and we'll continue killing your supporters in your space whilst you're off low sec ganking.... and they call us pirate sympathisers! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:23:00 - [118] Originally by: Sapphrine CVA, for an alliance claiming to be in a position of power, you're doing an awful lot of posturing and smear campaigning. Amusing considering this thread was an attempt to smear the CVA name. ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:30:00 - [119] Irrelevant claim considering the OP has nothing to do with UK.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.02 15:47:00 - [120] Oh Mr. Kaltin, I know you are too curious to let this thread alone. You will still be lurking around and reading it and be tempted to answer yet you cannot because you said you wouldn't and who can say that an Amarr ever posted a lie on IGS ... We are losing this war? You really think so? You think taking QR makes us losing this war? You think killing us makes us losing this war? You really should know better. You put us down, we rise again. You kill one of us and two warriors will take his place. You enslave us and torture us and we still spit in your face. Purification by pain, you should know the concept. Everything you do to us will only make us harder, better warriors. You think we are desperate? Does that make us more or less dangerous? We will come after you till the day we day. And when we are dead our children and grand children will take our place. Even if you'd kill every free Matari you would raise our sucessors on your farms. You will never get rid of us. That is why you are truly desperate, because you know deep in your heart that you are fighting a war you cannot win. That in the end Truth and Uprightness will prevail. There is only one end to this battle - the freedom of our brothers.
Kraaz	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:55:00 - [121] Edited by: Kraaz on 02/05/2007 16:51:19
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:56:00 - [122] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Irrelevant claim considering the OP has nothing to do with UK. Ushra'khan felt the need to get involved. ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:07:00 - [123] And why shouldn't they?
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:20:00 - [124] Originally by: Reash Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Irrelevant claim considering the OP has nothing to do with UK. Ushra'khan felt the need to get involved. Quote: And why shouldn't they? Make your mind up ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:54:00 - [125] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Ok....Simply. Amarr are terrorists. For too long they had been playing the public role of big brother. Ok, I have been reading this thread to learn what is going on and why it the stuff is happening. When I read this quote I got concerned. I am Amarr and I am proud to fly the Amarr Colors. You claim that the Amarr are Terrorists - I have not terrorized any body and I take damn good care of my slaves better than most Amarr's I would say. I could be wrong of course. But to claim Amarr are terrorists is an Insult to the entire Amarr Empire and it's people. Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio else big daddy Amarr might get angry. Uhm - you may want to keep an eye on Amarr yourself after calling them all Terrorists.
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.02 19:26:00 - [126] Sorry I meant specifically CVA.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.02 20:17:00 - [127] Oh come on, tell me about wrong generalization and I tell you about what I get from CVA/PIE/alike all day long ...
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 20:32:00 - [128] Just to clear a couple of issues up. Until a few days ago ER was still shooting UK (piracy) now they do not, to my knowledge. They still engage in piracy throughout Providence. IAC has UK kos, and with good reason. IAC has made good on any mistaken attacks to my knowledge. CVA is not associated with Red Alliance or Goonswarm. CVA is not involved in the wars raging between coalition and alliance. Yes the CVA has some basic requirements, they are simple. No individual or corperation is forced to treat UK with hostility. From my perspective, UK continue to make very bad choices. These choices reveal them for what they are. The pilots who live in the area must simply be tired of the brutish violent pirate loving ways of the Ushra Khan.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.05.02 21:28:00 - [129] Originally by: Kabajashi San Oh come on, tell me about wrong generalization and I tell you about what I get from CVA/PIE/alike all day long ... There's a difference? Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminati From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.02 22:45:00 - [130] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Sorry I meant specifically CVA. Apology Accepted
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:34:00 - [131] The pilots coming to this area have to be aware of the fact that this is a battlefield. There is a war betwen Matari and Slavers and this is one of the hotspots. You cannot plow a field in such an area and start whining when the armies trample upon it on their way to the battle. You cannot do business in such an area and expect that noone will ask you to take a stand on either side. But every pilot should ask himself why he has come to 0.0 in the first place. Was it only because of the higher bounties you find on the Sansha down here or was it because you were fed up with the restrictions in Empire space and want to live a free life making your own decisions. I would think a big chunk of people came here for the latter. And if this was the case why the hell would you bundle up with CVA? They are nothing but the prolonged arm of the Empire. They want to apply the same rules on you you had in Empire space. Why would you want to accept it and not stand up for your own?
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:22:00 - [132] Originally by: Kabajashi San The pilots coming to this area have to be aware of the fact that this is a battlefield. There is a war betwen Matari and Slavers and this is one of the hotspots. You cannot plow a field in such an area and start whining when the armies trample upon it on their way to the battle. You cannot do business in such an area and expect that noone will ask you to take a stand on either side. But every pilot should ask himself why he has come to 0.0 in the first place. Was it only because of the higher bounties you find on the Sansha down here or was it because you were fed up with the restrictions in Empire space and want to live a free life making your own decisions. I would think a big chunk of people came here for the latter. And if this was the case why the hell would you bundle up with CVA? They are nothing but the prolonged arm of the Empire. They want to apply the same rules on you you had in Empire space. Why would you want to accept it and not stand up for your own? In answer to your question, a wide range of issues that undoubtedly are lost on yourself. The territories supported by the good people of the CVA have swelled since the pacification of the old unbridled pirate threat, the clearance of the old camping grounds opening the territories up for commerce. Those groups that whine about the shadow of the CVA's presence tend to be the ones wishing that anarchy and lawlessness would return, to plunder those new arrivals seeking to carry out their works without persecution. Persecution that has by all accounts been dealt in no small number by those within the UK ranks of late, as well as all other forms of scum. The persecution of innocents who work within the area due to the defensive operations of the CVA and local militia forces, BECAUSE of the CVA's honourable intentions is laughable. Perhaps this offers grounds for all other Matari facilities to be egageable because of their allignment? The CVA are not pirates, I believe their past actions have shown that time and time again. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:57:00 - [133] CVA are not pirates the same way UK are not pirates. CVA flys alongside pirates pursuing their goal of going after UK. UK flys alongside pirates (as for the last days) pursuing their goal of freeing their brothers. There is no difference in the means used. The difference is the purpose we are fighting for. CVA is fighting to stretch the Empire's borders far out into Providence. It is the claimed purpose of the Amarr that His word shall be spread and His authority shall be expanded upon all being. UK is fighting to free our brothers. That does not concern anybody apart from slavers up to the moment they, directly or indirectly, support those who we are fighting. And in this moment they are not neutral any more because they cause harm to our brothers and what you inflict to my brother you are inflicting to me. I am not preaching lawlessness and anarchy here. I'm preaching freedom. The honourable intentions of CVA that you reffered to are nothing else than the subjogation of any other being and the expansion of the empire's power. There is nothing honourable in disregarding any peoples right to live free and unharmed.
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 13:01:00 - [134] Edited by: Kallanagh Tellen on 03/05/2007 12:58:59 They are not your brothers anymore, and havent been in a long, long time. What exactly would happen to this disassociated kin that you wish to free? Would they return to their families with open arms? In all reality those who serve the Empire have no kin, their family lies with others that serve beside them. Oh I have heard the slogans of the 'freedom' to which they are released, a lifetime of cruel exploitation at the hands of whatever 'entrepreneur' that finds a use for them. I see no freedom here, death and dishonour perhaps but not freedom. If there is a grievance then there are channels through which to communicate. Follow them. The mass execution of those that terrorists wish to save (somehow the ideal of 'freeing' such individuals into the void of space hasnt seemed so logical to me) is not a valid excuse for the killing of neutrals and innocents. Flawed idealism is no excuse for the slaughter of those not involved. Order will be installed, malcontents and the jackals of the void will be expelled and cut down where they are found. In this task the CVA has done suprisingly well. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 14:23:00 - [135] They are not my brothers any more? What are you, insane? I was born on the same farms they are now. I was born under the same whip they are now. I am of the same blood they are. Who is my brother if not someone of the same blood, same origin and same culture? You tell me I am not a free man now? Can I not go whereever I want, do whatever I want to do? Was it not my choice and my choice alone to lead my life fighting for theirs? What Entrepreneur would ever have any power over my life? Oh yes, you are right, Amarr paramilitaries have done a great job installing order in the outer regions. The order of the graveyards. The order of broken men under the whip. The order of religious fanatism and oppression. What a nice world to live in. Maybe you yourself should get a taste of freedom, you wouldn't find ths "order" so appealing any more...
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:05:00 - [136] Originally by: Kabajashi San They are not my brothers any more? What are you, insane? I was born on the same farms they are now. I was born under the same whip they are now. I am of the same blood they are. Who is my brother if not someone of the same blood, same origin and same culture? You tell me I am not a free man now? Can I not go whereever I want, do whatever I want to do? Was it not my choice and my choice alone to lead my life fighting for theirs? What Entrepreneur would ever have any power over my life? Oh yes, you are right, Amarr paramilitaries have done a great job installing order in the outer regions. The order of the graveyards. The order of broken men under the whip. The order of religious fanatism and oppression. What a nice world to live in. Maybe you yourself should get a taste of freedom, you wouldn't find ths "order" so appealing any more... If you do not feel that the environs of Amarrian rule is to you liking then leave, now. The matter of those who serve the Empire is a simple one. 'Freedom', that word I hear so much in these open channels is a very loose and subjective term. The case of 'freedom' creates more wars, fills more graves and deprives more families of fathers, sons and husbands than any other cause in being. Such 'freeedoms' are often the tool of the politician, or those that wish to gain some personal appreciation by way of some great task that THEY dictate to be right. Let me speak this plainly to you, none of us are free. From the lowest servant to the highest authority the drive of authority binds us to service, for the simple fact that shirking our duties often causes great detriment to others. Freedom implies to absense of such responsabilities, and is often utilised as a self-serving qualiy that obstructs the great order of civilisation. Those 'brothers' have their responsabilities, and whilst some may choose to argue and scream that they should be 'freed' the true horror of such situations can only be truly understood when considering the lives of such 'freed men', wishing to prolong their existance as amoal denizens of the Federation or Republic. To 'free' these men and women would be a crime greater than any other, a wasted life. Do not delude yourself that attempting to rip these people from their work that yu would be doing them a service, such actions no doubt have a greater role to play on a much more personal footing. The self-serving desires of others is the cause of much death in the Providence region, spiling forward to claim the lives who have no true place as 'targets' in this vile practice. What better sign of greed is there as the declaration of piracy on the innocent in the name of a self-serving dogma. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:28:00 - [137] Ok...if I am not Blue and I am not Red will CVA shoot at me or will they ask me to join their cause and if I refuse then shoot at me?
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:34:00 - [138] To leave would be the decision of a coward, to take the oppressor on and fight him is the decision of a man. Besides if we all would just leave who would stop the infectious disease called religious supremacy? The residents in Providence have proven that they won't. On the bigger issue You are mistaken, my friend. It is not freedom that puts these men to graves and causes endless pain, it is the denial of freedom. If you would grant the Matari the freedom they seek the bloodshed would stop in that very minute. It is your denial of a basic right to every Matari that causes us to grab our blades in defence of our brothers, not the other way around. My task is not dictated by some politician, it is not given by any authority of whatever nature. It is me alone who has chosen this task as a free man. That is what divides us. You accept some religious authority to dictate your life and your decisions and you want to apply that dictatorship to anyone else as well. What I seek is the liberation of that dictatorship, at least to whom it is applied by force. To liberate yourself is a task only you yourself can do. You are right that the ideal of freedom is often abused and that ultimate freedom can harm others if it implies the absence of responsibilities. Yet this is no reason to deny any freedom at all. It is moreover a reason to teach how to act responsible as a free man. But this can only be learnt once you are free, it cannot be taught by men who themselves are slaves to their ignorance. And no matter how often you repeat the propaganda published by your leaders, it is not truth. There are no innocents involved in this conflicts. And if there is somebody who is not aware of the conflict going on in Providence (which I find hard to believe) when this still is a battlefield. You cannot stand on a battlefield and expect not to get involved or not to get harmed. You cannot stand in the rain and expect not to get wet. You cannot do business with a slaver and expect us to look the other way. You cannot make friend with our enemies and expect us to ignore that. We may be hot blooded but we are no fools.
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:50:00 - [139] Originally by: JamnOne Ok...if I am not Blue and I am not Red will CVA shoot at me or will they ask me to join their cause and if I refuse then shoot at me? If you do not cause a disturbance to other residence I believe they would leave you be. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Eveliddia Amarr The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:52:00 - [140] Originally by: JamnOne Ok...if I am not Blue and I am not Red will CVA shoot at me or will they ask me to join their cause and if I refuse then shoot at me? If in Southern Providence you would be left to do as you choose. If in or around a battlefield between CVA and UK you would be asked to move along.
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:54:00 - [141] Originally by: Kabajashi San To leave would be the decision of a coward, to take the oppressor on and fight him is the decision of a man. Besides if we all would just leave who would stop the infectious disease called religious supremacy? The residents in Providence have proven that they won't. On the bigger issue You are mistaken, my friend. It is not freedom that puts these men to graves and causes endless pain, it is the denial of freedom. If you would grant the Matari the freedom they seek the bloodshed would stop in that very minute. It is your denial of a basic right to every Matari that causes us to grab our blades in defence of our brothers, not the other way around. My task is not dictated by some politician, it is not given by any authority of whatever nature. It is me alone who has chosen this task as a free man. That is what divides us. You accept some religious authority to dictate your life and your decisions and you want to apply that dictatorship to anyone else as well. What I seek is the liberation of that dictatorship, at least to whom it is applied by force. To liberate yourself is a task only you yourself can do. You are right that the ideal of freedom is often abused and that ultimate freedom can harm others if it implies the absence of responsibilities. Yet this is no reason to deny any freedom at all. It is moreover a reason to teach how to act responsible as a free man. But this can only be learnt once you are free, it cannot be taught by men who themselves are slaves to their ignorance. And no matter how often you repeat the propaganda published by your leaders, it is not truth. There are no innocents involved in this conflicts. And if there is somebody who is not aware of the conflict going on in Providence (which I find hard to believe) when this still is a battlefield. You cannot stand on a battlefield and expect not to get involved or not to get harmed. You cannot stand in the rain and expect not to get wet. You cannot do business with a slaver and expect us to look the other way. You cannot make friend with our enemies and expect us to ignore that. We may be hot blooded but we are no fools. Then what of the migrant who wishes to merely work in peace? Should they murdered in the same vein by those of Amarr belief for merely being present in the are as potential dealers with the terrorist threat? What then? Would innocents be simply slaughtered by either side? Thankfully this is not the case, those who simply wish to live in peace will not be harmed by the forces of Amarr, as long as they maintain the order. long shall the order be preserved in the fight against needless agression, bloodlust and hate. You suprise me, you seem more level-headed than most of your cause, my compliments. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:40:00 - [142] Originally by: Eveliddia Originally by: JamnOne Ok...if I am not Blue and I am not Red will CVA shoot at me or will they ask me to join their cause and if I refuse then shoot at me? If in Southern Providence you would be left to do as you choose. If in or around a battlefield between CVA and UK you would be asked to move along. Ok, after reading the OP and being informed that if in Southern Providence I will be left alone as long as I don't cause a disturbance and if I am in the battlefield area I will be asked to move along then why would I believe that CVA are Pirates? It sounds like CVA will leave neutrals alone as long as they are not agressive to them, do not try and cause issues, and are not aligned with UK. Or did I miss something here?
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:55:00 - [143] Originally by: JamnOne If in Southern Providence you would be left to do as you choose. If in or around a battlefield between CVA and UK you would be asked to move along. Ok, after reading the OP and being informed that if in Southern Providence I will be left alone as long as I don't cause a disturbance and if I am in the battlefield area I will be asked to move along then why would I believe that CVA are Pirates? It sounds like CVA will leave neutrals alone as long as they are not agressive to them, do not try and cause issues, and are not aligned with UK. Or did I miss something here? It may be safer to move along for your own safety, as suggsted by my honourable peer. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:27:00 - [144] Originally by: JamnOne It sounds like CVA will leave neutrals alone as long as they are not agressive to them, do not try and cause issues, and are not aligned with UK. Or did I miss something here? There is a difference of the rules stated and the rules applied. The rules stated are the same to that of UK. Only we interpret the term "not aligned" maybe a bit narrower. Though I am not absolutely sure of that. Also the term battlefield is open to interpretation. You will be asked to leave and considered with bad intentions if you don't. Same applies to UK. Third thing is the behaviour of allied alliances. In this CVA has had an open agency in the past, allying the more ruthless ones. UK has stepped up to this standards a bit in the last days. I have said it before: CVA are pirates in the same way UK are pirates or not. To not be understood: This is my opinion, it doesn't necessarily represent the interpretation of the Council.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:37:00 - [145] To Kallanagh Tellen: There is no difference. You will not harm them as long as they follow your purpose. This purpose is preserving the order as you call it. We will not harm them as long as they follow our purpose. This purpose is the fight for the freedom of our brothers. Your purpose may allow to be flexible as to whom you deal with. A trader in the system who stablizises the economy of both unity and KD to you is no thread. A florishing economy will create you income and prosperity. To us such a trader who deals with both sides is a threat. The trade goods he buys will be produced by our brothers in chains. The more the economy florishes the more slaves the Empire will need and the more of the border worlds it will raid. This is just one example. There are many more. The fight for our brothers does not allow us to compromise on these things.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:48:00 - [146] Originally by: xHjfx Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 27/04/2007 15:40:43 IAC is not NBSI in Providence, we are temporarily NBSI everywhere else in 0.0 right now however due to our little problem with 0utbreak. Our recon gangs are there hunting our enemies for sport and training, not pirating innocent people we have no beef with. PS; CVA are a lot tougher than IAC, and have never needed our help with anything. They are in fact extremely choosy about who they ally with. Not that the word of Tyrrax needs confirmation, but having witnessed and participated with the aforementioned gangs in the Terrorist home system - 9uy, I can confirm the fact they are only engaging Terrorists and Enemy pilots within Providence. Dont try to smear the reputation of the good and honourable with petty lies because you are on the recieving end. I'm a neutral who's operated in the Providence region, aligned to no one, member of no Alliance. I've lost four ships in that region, three of them to unprovoked attacks by IAC. Care to come again with that sack of bovine byproduct? This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 20:50:00 - [147] Originally by: Kabajashi San Third thing is the behaviour of allied alliances. In this CVA has had an open agency in the past, allying the more ruthless ones. UK has stepped up to this standards a bit in the last days. I am curious about these 'more ruthless' you refer to. Would this be LV (who pirated in Providence)that came along with a show of force for their temporary pals? Would this be ISS/MC who paid/allowed for mercs to save a POS? Would this be ER(Providence pirates)? Would this be Hobos(Providence pirates)? Would this be Chaos Incarnate(pirates) or any other host of rebels, pirates, and anarchs that have come to call. All of those forces, past and present are part of the UK menagerie. These are not forces called by CVA. Any forces outside the Amarr loyalists(actually including them as well) that have shown you aggression have arrived at that decision themselves. They may have accepted CVA policy, but it was not our threat.
Eucarid Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 01:36:00 - [148] Edited by: Eucarid on 04/05/2007 01:41:38 Originally by: Kabajashi San To Kallanagh Tellen: There is no difference. You will not harm them as long as they follow your purpose. This purpose is preserving the order as you call it. We will not harm them as long as they follow our purpose. This purpose is the fight for the freedom of our brothers. Your purpose may allow to be flexible as to whom you deal with. A trader in the system who stablizises the economy of both unity and KD to you is no thread. A florishing economy will create you income and prosperity. To us such a trader who deals with both sides is a threat. The trade goods he buys will be produced by our brothers in chains. The more the economy florishes the more slaves the Empire will need and the more of the border worlds it will raid. This is just one example. There are many more. The fight for our brothers does not allow us to compromise on these things. I am but a humble servant of the Empire. Thank you Kabajashi San for you clarifications of UK policy. Here is what I consider differences: The UK follow a 2-state system of identification. For them "you are either for us or against us." They throw around the term "neutral" but for them there really is no such thing. CVA follow a 3-state system of identification. For us "you are either for us, against us, or neither." We will set you to KOS if you follow a NBSI policy in our space. We also have a good memory -- if you are set to KOS you and your corporation will remain that way forever unless you make reparations. Furthermore, we consider the "battlefield" to be an area where we are actively engaged in a battle, whereas UK define "battlefield" to be the entire universe. Now, you can see the difference between CVA saying they will not engage neutrals outside of a battlefield and the UK saying the same thing. We are not saying the same thing.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.04 03:04:00 - [149] Originally by: Pezzle Originally by: Kabajashi San Third thing is the behaviour of allied alliances. In this CVA has had an open agency in the past, allying the more ruthless ones. UK has stepped up to this standards a bit in the last days. I am curious about these 'more ruthless' you refer to. Would this be LV (who pirated in Providence)that came along with a show of force for their temporary pals? Would this be ISS/MC who paid/allowed for mercs to save a POS? Would this be ER(Providence pirates)? Would this be Hobos(Providence pirates)? Would this be Chaos Incarnate(pirates) or any other host of rebels, pirates, and anarchs that have come to call. All of those forces, past and present are part of the UK menagerie... Rubbish. When your allies in IAC declared war on ISS we were called upon to help ISS. We have long and good relations with ISS so we helped. Then ISS called upon LV, MC and a host of others. We did not call in anyone. CVA not wanting to get in the firefight directly decided to divert our forces from defending ISS by striking one of our border starbases for the first time in over a year and erecting your own in that system. Your POS and ours were scheduled to come out of reinforced at the same time. We pulled the bulk of our fleet from the frontlines and returned to our space. An entirely Ushra'Khan battle group destroyed the CVA POS while your force looked on from a lone inteceptor. That system and all those surrounding it were secured by Ushra'Khan for over an hour before a lone MC pilot turned up out of the blue to help our rescue team repair the shields. There was nothing you could do to prevent us saving that POS with or with that lone pilots help. As for ENH, Hobos and the rest. They all came to Providence for their own reasons. Some we have fought, some we have managed to make peace with and in some cases we have done both. Lets see a full and complete list of the alliances you called down to help you take QR shall we? I really thought such blatant lies to fuel a petty smear campaign were beneath CVA. Looks like I was wrong. I don't blame the other residents of Providence for their actions. We have seen first hand CVA strongarm tactics and know they have no choice but to comply or face Amarrian lasers. But we are Ushra'Khan and we will never submit to slavers. >> RECRUITING <<
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.04 08:58:00 - [150] To Pezzle: I am not here to retell old stories of who allied with whom. You know who you fly alongside with and I know who showed up on your side in recent battles. Same goes to UK. I'm tired of these stories where everyone makes up the outcome for himself. If it makes you happy I'd say that from this day on we have the same standards applying to whom we ally with as have CVA. To Eucarid: There are neutrals to UK. They just have to work a bit harder to be regarded that way. You are neutral to us if you don't do business with slavers, don't help them, direct or indirect, in their fighting and if you respect the necessities of our fight. You don't have to be actively helping us in any way or believe what we believe yet you cannot deny our cause. I've brought the example of the Trader in Providence before. That trader would be considered neutral if he wouldn't do business at KD or any other slaver owned station. And yes, the Universe is our battlefield not just Providence. Unity is a basis of operation, the fight for our brothers is not concentrated in one place. They are not enslaved in Providence alone, they are enslaved in every Amarr controlled territory. And the slaver raids expand even further. So in all these places we will have to fight. This is a basic understanding many of the Amarr don't have. This is not a war betwen UK and CVA and alike. It is not a war betwen two alliances and their allies. This is a war about the freedom of our brothers. There is no other war like that in our universe. That is why you can't expect that it goes by the same rules other battles go.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.04 17:17:00 - [151] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 04/05/2007 17:23:07 Originally by: Janu Hull I'm a neutral who's operated in the Providence region, aligned to no one, member of no Alliance. I've lost four ships in that region, three of them to unprovoked attacks by IAC. Care to come again with that sack of bovine byproduct? Let's revisit your case. Linkage You base out of a station populated by pirates and terrorists with a history of unprovoked attacks on IAC, perhaps that has something to do with why IAC raiders considered you to be hostile. If you'd actually attempted to get it resolved we would've investigated why you were killed and any undeserved losses would've been reimbursed. Instead of contacting a diplomat and inquiring as to why you were engaged, you started a smear campaign which you still pursue despite having previously announced the situation to be resolved. http://eve.klaki.net/
Paradoxex Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:17:00 - [152] CVA don't shoot others simply because they do business or associate with the Ushra'Khan. As much has been stated as a point of pride for CVA. IAC respectfully mirror CVA's KOS list while in Providence. This much has also been articulated. IAC do not act NBSI in Providence specifically for this reason. Yet, IAC engaged and destroyed a non-hostile pilot because he was doing business in Unity Station. IAC considered him a friend of terrorists or a pirate, and designated him KOS. They then did not follow-up with him because he vocalized his outrage. For all the insistence that CVA's guidelines for operating in Providence are strict, unyielding, but fair...it is rather clear that despite claims to the contrary CVA bows to convenience as much as the next alliance. The point is simple: If you want to be a pillar, you can't bend. At all. At the end of the day, this just goes to show how worthless such guidelines and sentiment truly are, and the terminology that goes along with it.
Tar Kovsky Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.04 19:56:00 - [153] Originally by: Eucarid The UK follow a 2-state system of identification. For them "you are either for us or against us." They throw around the term "neutral" but for them there really is no such thing. This is patently false. Proof, or STFU.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:14:00 - [154] Originally by: Paradoxex IAC respectfully mirror CVA's KOS list while in Providence. This much has also been articulated. IAC do not act NBSI in Providence specifically for this reason. Incorrect, we not follow CVA's list, we shoot our own enemies in Providence according to our standings, not theirs. Quote: Yet, IAC engaged and destroyed a non-hostile pilot because he was doing business in Unity Station. IAC considered him a friend of terrorists or a pirate, and designated him KOS. They then did not follow-up with him because he vocalized his outrage. Non-hostile ? Says who ? There has been no investigation, so the reasons for him being killed are unknown, judging him by his actions since he probably deserved whatever he got. But good job expressing your complete ignorance and talking out your ass. http://eve.klaki.net/
Eucarid Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:41:00 - [155] Originally by: Tar Kovsky Originally by: Eucarid The UK follow a 2-state system of identification. For them "you are either for us or against us." They throw around the term "neutral" but for them there really is no such thing. This is patently false. Proof, or STFU. I was mearly going by the words of your brother: Originally by: Kabajashi San To Kallanagh Tellen: We will not harm them as long as they follow our purpose. This purpose is the fight for the freedom of our brothers. In other words, one either fights for the freedom of your brothers or you shoot them. How else can this be interpreted? As it stands, Kabajashi San further clarified with: Originally by: Tar Kovsky Originally by: Eucarid To Eucarid: There are neutrals to UK. They just have to work a bit harder to be regarded that way. You seem to posess some minimal capacity to understand the concept of neutral, so I stand corrected although I don't consider your definition of neutral to be sufficient. It seems you need some anger management. The Amarr offer some excellent facilities to help you with that. I would be happy to assist you with the check-in process.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:42:00 - [156] Nothing cures primal instinct like vitoc. ----------------------------------------------
Paradoxex Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.04 21:51:00 - [157] If I misunderstood your rules of engagement within Providence, then I apologize. When two parties claim to follow different NRDS lists, it always makes me smile. No accountability, no logic....you could be following NBSI and we'd have no clue. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 05:17:25 There may have been some confusion within our ranks as to whether or not the terrorist infested part of Providence should be deemed completely hostile. A few of our raid leaders apparently believed it was for a brief period of time (certainly not months) and operated on the assumption that anyone found around 9uy must be a terrorist collaborator and a threat to operational security. I corrected them on the non-hostile status of the entire region as soon as the situation was brought to my attention and reimbursed the losses of those found to be innocent. As for this, your anger belies the futility of your argument. CVA are quoted herein many times over stating that part of the reason they have little issue with your presence is that you operate NRDS in 9UY and elsewhere. Clearly that is not the case, as evidenced by the victim in this thread. As for your responses justifying IAC actions...it is nice to know that despite the above sentiment, your true notions are not hard to discern. Quote: Non-hostile ? Says who ? There has been no investigation, so the reasons for him being killed are unknown, judging him by his actions since he probably deserved whatever he got. Guilty until proven innocent, eh? You aren't very far from the pirates you so claim to despise. You are, however, much closer to the hypocrisy you are so frantically flailing to avoid. Earlier you apologize for shooting non-reds, then you try to justify it. Make up your mind, and lessen your spite. When arguing on shaky ground, you need not complicate matters by losing composure.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.05 00:09:00 - [158] To Euclarid: Maybe I was misunderstandable on this, maybe you understod me wrong intentionally. There are neutrals to UK. Yet our purpose doesn't allow us to use the term "neutral" in such broad sense as other alliances. If you have questions ask, don't interpret.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:42:00 - [159] Where did I apologize for anything ? Who says I despise pirates ? Frantically flailing ? Give the spin a rest, when you have to make everything up it doesn't work too well. http://eve.klaki.net/
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.06 01:30:00 - [160] Originally by: Kabajashi San To Euclarid: There are neutrals to UK. Yet our purpose doesn't allow us to use the term "neutral" in such broad sense as other alliances. If you have questions ask, don't interpret. Forgive me, I've no intention to spur on this claim, counter-claim puppet show. But I'm intrigued by your quote here. Perhaps you could elaborate a little? Mort
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.06 08:29:00 - [161] Edited by: Kabajashi San on 06/05/2007 08:27:29 I thought I had, but never mind. To CVA (and other alliances), somebody who is doing trade in both KD and Unity without any other interference whatsoever is a neutral because it helps on their cause of boosting the economy in Providence thus enlarging the borders of the Empire. They can ignore the income created for UK as it is not relevant in size. For UK such a pilot cannot be considered neutral. We are fighting for the freedom of our brothers. All these goods traded at KD are made by slaves under Amarr control. Every time you do business at KD you are creating a need for more slave labor thus putting pressure on the Amarr to raid our border worlds to fulfill that need. They are not able to produce anything with their own clumsy hands, they have to rely on skilled Matari. So in our cause to support our brothers in chains this trader has to be considered as unfriendly as long as he does business in KD or any other slaver owned station. As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area. Please bear in mind that I'm am but a simple member to this alliance with no right to speak in its name of whatsoever. So this is how I see things, nothing more. /edit: Oh yes, and I will not comment on the Sylph matter, this is for diplomats.
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.06 08:42:00 - [162] SO by the same grain anyone using the facilities of UNITY station are valid targets irrespective of corporate bearing or personal action? A rather dangerous concept. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.06 09:17:00 - [163] Originally by: Kabajashi San As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area. Which part of that you didn't understand? Also I was speaking about the perspective of UK. Why would we consider someone a target because he docks at Unity?
Kallanagh Tellen Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.05.06 09:28:00 - [164] No. I was implying that by utilising the same standards the potential implications of the CVA and allies taking the same approach. Luckily in this case, such tactics are not employed. Serve the Emperor Above all Others
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.06 14:55:00 - [165] Edited by: Mortim on 06/05/2007 14:52:24 Originally by: Kabajashi San Edited by: Kabajashi San on 06/05/2007 08:27:29 I thought I had, but never mind. To CVA (and other alliances), somebody who is doing trade in both KD and Unity without any other interference whatsoever is a neutral because it helps on their cause of boosting the economy in Providence thus enlarging the borders of the Empire. They can ignore the income created for UK as it is not relevant in size. For UK such a pilot cannot be considered neutral. We are fighting for the freedom of our brothers. All these goods traded at KD are made by slaves under Amarr control. Every time you do business at KD you are creating a need for more slave labor thus putting pressure on the Amarr to raid our border worlds to fulfill that need. They are not able to produce anything with their own clumsy hands, they have to rely on skilled Matari. So in our cause to support our brothers in chains this trader has to be considered as unfriendly as long as he does business in KD or any other slaver owned station. As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area. Please bear in mind that I'm am but a simple member to this alliance with no right to speak in its name of whatsoever. So this is how I see things, nothing more. /edit: Oh yes, and I will not comment on the Sylph matter, this is for diplomats. Ah I see how you mean now. Yes I can indeed attest, that this policy is upheld by UK. As for the Sylph matter, you'll be welcome to comment, if and when we make a public decleration. As it stands I believe, and fervently hope your leadership are reviewing the situation as we speak. It is not one I hoped myself, as a pilot looking to uphold the structure and integrity of the region, to be in. Thanks for your clarification. Mort Edit: Ironically errored in the spelling of clarification
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:32:00 - [166] I must apologize, Kallanagh Tellen, I misunderstood you then. I was pretty drunk from the victory celebrations last night. ;) But you are right. The tactics of CVA are different on this point. As I said this can be easily explained by the difference of the cause we are fighting for. On a sidenote regarding neutrals I will never understand people undocking in a system of raging war with 200 people in local who start whining because they lost their ship then. If you fly inside a CVA fleet you are assumed hostile unless you clarify in local and leave the system. This is not a place for tourists right now, even if Planet 5 is very nice this time of the year. You will read the outcome in the Chronicle I'm sure, no need to see it yourself. Even less I can understand people labeling UK as pirates after such an incident.
Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.06 18:10:00 - [167] No, that sort of event can't really be seen as piracy, more of a compromise between mistake and idiot tax.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.20 17:15:00 - [168] Originally by: Redpants Edited by: Redpants on 30/04/2007 21:50:07 Originally by: Paddington The Amarr Empire and the CVA is the scourge of mankind, if someone says they support them then they understand, even at the most basic level what CVA does and is willing to do to other humans... It's my understanding that CVA doesn't do anything to humans, just Minmatars. I will take great pleasure in popping your pod and let you take a breath of healthy vacuum.
Skirge Minmatar Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.21 17:14:00 - [169] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin Ushrakhan, unlike you we have standards in our recruitment. Before any corporation joins there is an extensive observation period, and checks to make sure they live upto our standards and agree with our ideals. Of course, by the number of corporations that have left Ushrakhan recently, it hardly seems like these are in your alliance to fight the forces of slavery. Is it not central defiance who left a few months ago because they did not believe in the cause, and who now pirate next to systems you propogate unmolested by your forces? LetÆs clear something up right now, Central Defiance fought along side UshraÆKahn during our time within the alliance as brothers. Their pilots are some of the most proud pilots in the game, nothing but respect for that. Our reasons for leaving were very simple: The Population and Restructuring of our corporation. However our reason for leaving has been shrouded in lies; nothing more then propaganda and slander used to attempt to make UK look like they were the bad guys for taking in a ôpirateö corporation. Pirates are defined very easily: Griefers that roam from region to region, ganking everyone they see without remourse or pitty. They move from region to region as to not give their targets time to rally proper friends or support to put up an effective force against them. I have news for you, this doesnÆt define DEFY in the least. We took up home in Devoid more then a year ago. It was where my corporation was formed and we immediately made quite a lot of friends with the local corporations. We let anyone that wanted to come in, and didnÆt bother a soul. However eventually neutrals started shooting at us, blowing my members without warning in belts. Soon pirates began to swarm our home and make it near impossible to be productive in the area. So Central Defiance changed our tactics when facing neutrals. It was very easy to get standings with us, all one had to do was ask. After a conversation with a CEO or Director about their intentions in the area they were allowed to live their freely with blue standings. However anyone with neutral or negative standings were hunted down and killed. Some people said we were ôTerrorizingö the region; however within a month we had one of the safest areas of low sec space in the universe. You can call us pirates all you want, insult us and call us causeless griefers; however we will forever stand by our actions during our time in Devoid and our old friends will support that. During our time in Devoid our members began making periodic trips into 0.0 wanting to get a taste of the lawless systems. While they were there we made contacts and friends with UK as well as a few within Sylph. When pirates moved into the area, threatening our new found friends and the very people that had taken us in we of course came to their aid. We acted on our own as a corporation, not joining any alliance for the entirety of the conflict. After everything had settled Sylph alliance got in contact with on of my directors and asked us to join their alliance. With newly found friends within the alliance, as well as getting to be neighbors with our long time friends of UK we gladly accepted the offer. However we soon came to find that the politics within Sylph were not anything like what we wanted to live with. Befriending all of our old enemies and taking on a completely neutral stance even towards UKÆs long time enemies CVA. When UK once again became under fire and possible destruction, Sylph chose not to act; which is something I do not hold against them though it sat ill with my conscience. I will not go into all of our reasons for leaving Sylph as I have already outlined it in a previous post; however we left on good terms to join up with UK. This action was widely accepted by my member base as UK were the ones that had taken us under their wing and helped us with our trek into 0.0 space.
Skirge Minmatar Central Defiance Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.05.21 17:16:00 - [170] After a long period of membership within UK we found our member base fading, and with some internal disputes we made the decision to leave the alliance back to our old home of Devoid so that we could reorganize and rebuild. We maintained contact with UK, setting any corp they requested to positive and going back to our old NBSI policy in our old home. You may call it piracy if you want, however we look upon it as protecting our home. Should you have ill thoughts of us because of that you take it up with us, do not blame UK for harboring pirates; for they did nothing of the sort. As far as honor and loyalty go, can CVA really boast anything when all they ever did was bring in capital ships and fleets to take on our small gangs? Stop being hypocrites and go read your pax CVA, you will never have my respect for you do not know how to give it
Vectrasor Volta	Posted - 2007.05.23 22:34:00 - [171] Originally by: EveJoker Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship. That sounds a lot like Catholicism to me. At any rate, most corps and alliances I know, except for IAC for a while had a not blue, your through, policy. If you got killed by guys who weren't anything to you, don't cry about it. Just adopt your own NBSI policy yourself, or stay the hell out of low sec.

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