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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.04 17:17:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 04/05/2007 17:23:07
 Originally by: Janu Hull
I'm a neutral who's operated in the Providence region, aligned to no one, member of no Alliance. I've lost four ships in that region, three of them to unprovoked attacks by IAC. Care to come again with that sack of bovine byproduct?
Let's revisit your case.
Linkage
You base out of a station populated by pirates and terrorists with a history of unprovoked attacks on IAC, perhaps that has something to do with why IAC raiders considered you to be hostile. If you'd actually attempted to get it resolved we would've investigated why you were killed and any undeserved losses would've been reimbursed.
Instead of contacting a diplomat and inquiring as to why you were engaged, you started a smear campaign which you still pursue despite having previously announced the situation to be resolved.
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Paradoxex
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:17:00 -
[152]
CVA don't shoot others simply because they do business or associate with the Ushra'Khan. As much has been stated as a point of pride for CVA.
IAC respectfully mirror CVA's KOS list while in Providence. This much has also been articulated. IAC do not act NBSI in Providence specifically for this reason.
Yet, IAC engaged and destroyed a non-hostile pilot because he was doing business in Unity Station. IAC considered him a friend of terrorists or a pirate, and designated him KOS. They then did not follow-up with him because he vocalized his outrage.
For all the insistence that CVA's guidelines for operating in Providence are strict, unyielding, but fair...it is rather clear that despite claims to the contrary CVA bows to convenience as much as the next alliance. The point is simple: If you want to be a pillar, you can't bend. At all.
At the end of the day, this just goes to show how worthless such guidelines and sentiment truly are, and the terminology that goes along with it.
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Tar Kovsky
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:56:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Eucarid
The UK follow a 2-state system of identification. For them "you are either for us or against us." They throw around the term "neutral" but for them there really is no such thing.
This is patently false. Proof, or STFU.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:14:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Paradoxex
IAC respectfully mirror CVA's KOS list while in Providence. This much has also been articulated. IAC do not act NBSI in Providence specifically for this reason.
Incorrect, we not follow CVA's list, we shoot our own enemies in Providence according to our standings, not theirs.
Quote:
Yet, IAC engaged and destroyed a non-hostile pilot because he was doing business in Unity Station. IAC considered him a friend of terrorists or a pirate, and designated him KOS. They then did not follow-up with him because he vocalized his outrage.
Non-hostile ? Says who ?
There has been no investigation, so the reasons for him being killed are unknown, judging him by his actions since he probably deserved whatever he got.
But good job expressing your complete ignorance and talking out your ass.
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Eucarid
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:41:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Eucarid
The UK follow a 2-state system of identification. For them "you are either for us or against us." They throw around the term "neutral" but for them there really is no such thing.
This is patently false. Proof, or STFU.
I was mearly going by the words of your brother:
Originally by: Kabajashi San
To Kallanagh Tellen:
We will not harm them as long as they follow our purpose. This purpose is the fight for the freedom of our brothers.
In other words, one either fights for the freedom of your brothers or you shoot them. How else can this be interpreted? As it stands, Kabajashi San further clarified with:
Originally by: Tar Kovsky
Originally by: Eucarid
To Eucarid:
There are neutrals to UK. They just have to work a bit harder to be regarded that way.
You seem to posess some minimal capacity to understand the concept of neutral, so I stand corrected although I don't consider your definition of neutral to be sufficient.
It seems you need some anger management. The Amarr offer some excellent facilities to help you with that. I would be happy to assist you with the check-in process.
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:42:00 -
[156]
Nothing cures primal instinct like vitoc.
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Paradoxex
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:51:00 -
[157]
If I misunderstood your rules of engagement within Providence, then I apologize. When two parties claim to follow different NRDS lists, it always makes me smile. No accountability, no logic....you could be following NBSI and we'd have no clue.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 28/04/2007 05:17:25
There may have been some confusion within our ranks as to whether or not the terrorist infested part of Providence should be deemed completely hostile.
A few of our raid leaders apparently believed it was for a brief period of time (certainly not months) and operated on the assumption that anyone found around 9uy must be a terrorist collaborator and a threat to operational security.
I corrected them on the non-hostile status of the entire region as soon as the situation was brought to my attention and reimbursed the losses of those found to be innocent.
As for this, your anger belies the futility of your argument. CVA are quoted herein many times over stating that part of the reason they have little issue with your presence is that you operate NRDS in 9UY and elsewhere. Clearly that is not the case, as evidenced by the victim in this thread.
As for your responses justifying IAC actions...it is nice to know that despite the above sentiment, your true notions are not hard to discern.
Quote:
Non-hostile ? Says who ?
There has been no investigation, so the reasons for him being killed are unknown, judging him by his actions since he probably deserved whatever he got.
Guilty until proven innocent, eh? You aren't very far from the pirates you so claim to despise. You are, however, much closer to the hypocrisy you are so frantically flailing to avoid.
Earlier you apologize for shooting non-reds, then you try to justify it. Make up your mind, and lessen your spite. When arguing on shaky ground, you need not complicate matters by losing composure.
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Kabajashi San
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.05 00:09:00 -
[158]
To Euclarid:
Maybe I was misunderstandable on this, maybe you understod me wrong intentionally.
There are neutrals to UK. Yet our purpose doesn't allow us to use the term "neutral" in such broad sense as other alliances.
If you have questions ask, don't interpret.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.05 11:42:00 -
[159]
Where did I apologize for anything ?
Who says I despise pirates ?
Frantically flailing ? 
Give the spin a rest, when you have to make everything up it doesn't work too well.
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Mortim
Minmatar
Madison Industrial Co.
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 01:30:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Kabajashi San
To Euclarid:
There are neutrals to UK. Yet our purpose doesn't allow us to use the term "neutral" in such broad sense as other alliances.
If you have questions ask, don't interpret.
Forgive me, I've no intention to spur on this claim, counter-claim puppet show. But I'm intrigued by your quote here.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little?
Mort
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Kabajashi San
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.06 08:29:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Kabajashi San on 06/05/2007 08:27:29
I thought I had, but never mind.
To CVA (and other alliances), somebody who is doing trade in both KD and Unity without any other interference whatsoever is a neutral because it helps on their cause of boosting the economy in Providence thus enlarging the borders of the Empire. They can ignore the income created for UK as it is not relevant in size.
For UK such a pilot cannot be considered neutral. We are fighting for the freedom of our brothers. All these goods traded at KD are made by slaves under Amarr control. Every time you do business at KD you are creating a need for more slave labor thus putting pressure on the Amarr to raid our border worlds to fulfill that need. They are not able to produce anything with their own clumsy hands, they have to rely on skilled Matari. So in our cause to support our brothers in chains this trader has to be considered as unfriendly as long as he does business in KD or any other slaver owned station.
As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area.
Please bear in mind that I'm am but a simple member to this alliance with no right to speak in its name of whatsoever. So this is how I see things, nothing more.
/edit: Oh yes, and I will not comment on the Sylph matter, this is for diplomats.
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Kallanagh Tellen
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.05.06 08:42:00 -
[162]
SO by the same grain anyone using the facilities of UNITY station are valid targets irrespective of corporate bearing or personal action?
A rather dangerous concept.
Serve the Emperor Above all Others |
Kabajashi San
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.06 09:17:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Kabajashi San
As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area.
Which part of that you didn't understand? Also I was speaking about the perspective of UK. Why would we consider someone a target because he docks at Unity?
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Kallanagh Tellen
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.05.06 09:28:00 -
[164]
No. I was implying that by utilising the same standards the potential implications of the CVA and allies taking the same approach.
Luckily in this case, such tactics are not employed.
Serve the Emperor Above all Others |
Mortim
Minmatar
Madison Industrial Co.
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:55:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Mortim on 06/05/2007 14:52:24
Originally by: Kabajashi San
Edited by: Kabajashi San on 06/05/2007 08:27:29
I thought I had, but never mind.
To CVA (and other alliances), somebody who is doing trade in both KD and Unity without any other interference whatsoever is a neutral because it helps on their cause of boosting the economy in Providence thus enlarging the borders of the Empire. They can ignore the income created for UK as it is not relevant in size.
For UK such a pilot cannot be considered neutral. We are fighting for the freedom of our brothers. All these goods traded at KD are made by slaves under Amarr control. Every time you do business at KD you are creating a need for more slave labor thus putting pressure on the Amarr to raid our border worlds to fulfill that need. They are not able to produce anything with their own clumsy hands, they have to rely on skilled Matari. So in our cause to support our brothers in chains this trader has to be considered as unfriendly as long as he does business in KD or any other slaver owned station.
As far as I'm aware of that doesn't mean that he will be instantly shot when meeting with UK but he will be asked to stop business there or leave the area.
Please bear in mind that I'm am but a simple member to this alliance with no right to speak in its name of whatsoever. So this is how I see things, nothing more.
/edit: Oh yes, and I will not comment on the Sylph matter, this is for diplomats.
Ah I see how you mean now.
Yes I can indeed attest, that this policy is upheld by UK.
As for the Sylph matter, you'll be welcome to comment, if and when we make a public decleration. As it stands I believe, and fervently hope your leadership are reviewing the situation as we speak. It is not one I hoped myself, as a pilot looking to uphold the structure and integrity of the region, to be in.
Thanks for your clarification.
Mort
Edit: Ironically errored in the spelling of clarification
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Kabajashi San
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:32:00 -
[166]
I must apologize, Kallanagh Tellen, I misunderstood you then. I was pretty drunk from the victory celebrations last night. ;)
But you are right. The tactics of CVA are different on this point. As I said this can be easily explained by the difference of the cause we are fighting for.
On a sidenote regarding neutrals I will never understand people undocking in a system of raging war with 200 people in local who start whining because they lost their ship then. If you fly inside a CVA fleet you are assumed hostile unless you clarify in local and leave the system. This is not a place for tourists right now, even if Planet 5 is very nice this time of the year. You will read the outcome in the Chronicle I'm sure, no need to see it yourself.
Even less I can understand people labeling UK as pirates after such an incident.
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Raane Thyandar
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.06 18:10:00 -
[167]
No, that sort of event can't really be seen as piracy, more of a compromise between mistake and idiot tax.
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Mangold
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.05.20 17:15:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Redpants
Edited by: Redpants on 30/04/2007 21:50:07
Originally by: Paddington
The Amarr Empire and the CVA is the scourge of mankind, if someone says they support them then they understand, even at the most basic level what CVA does and is willing to do to other humans...
It's my understanding that CVA doesn't do anything to humans, just Minmatars.
I will take great pleasure in popping your pod and let you take a breath of healthy vacuum.
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Skirge
Minmatar
Central Defiance
Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.05.21 17:14:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin
Ushrakhan, unlike you we have standards in our recruitment. Before any corporation joins there is an extensive observation period, and checks to make sure they live upto our standards and agree with our ideals. Of course, by the number of corporations that have left Ushrakhan recently, it hardly seems like these are in your alliance to fight the forces of slavery. Is it not central defiance who left a few months ago because they did not believe in the cause, and who now pirate next to systems you propogate unmolested by your forces?
LetÆs clear something up right now, Central Defiance fought along side UshraÆKahn during our time within the alliance as brothers. Their pilots are some of the most proud pilots in the game, nothing but respect for that. Our reasons for leaving were very simple: The Population and Restructuring of our corporation. However our reason for leaving has been shrouded in lies; nothing more then propaganda and slander used to attempt to make UK look like they were the bad guys for taking in a ôpirateö corporation. Pirates are defined very easily: Griefers that roam from region to region, ganking everyone they see without remourse or pitty. They move from region to region as to not give their targets time to rally proper friends or support to put up an effective force against them. I have news for you, this doesnÆt define DEFY in the least.
We took up home in Devoid more then a year ago. It was where my corporation was formed and we immediately made quite a lot of friends with the local corporations. We let anyone that wanted to come in, and didnÆt bother a soul. However eventually neutrals started shooting at us, blowing my members without warning in belts. Soon pirates began to swarm our home and make it near impossible to be productive in the area. So Central Defiance changed our tactics when facing neutrals. It was very easy to get standings with us, all one had to do was ask. After a conversation with a CEO or Director about their intentions in the area they were allowed to live their freely with blue standings. However anyone with neutral or negative standings were hunted down and killed. Some people said we were ôTerrorizingö the region; however within a month we had one of the safest areas of low sec space in the universe. You can call us pirates all you want, insult us and call us causeless griefers; however we will forever stand by our actions during our time in Devoid and our old friends will support that.
During our time in Devoid our members began making periodic trips into 0.0 wanting to get a taste of the lawless systems. While they were there we made contacts and friends with UK as well as a few within Sylph. When pirates moved into the area, threatening our new found friends and the very people that had taken us in we of course came to their aid. We acted on our own as a corporation, not joining any alliance for the entirety of the conflict. After everything had settled Sylph alliance got in contact with on of my directors and asked us to join their alliance. With newly found friends within the alliance, as well as getting to be neighbors with our long time friends of UK we gladly accepted the offer. However we soon came to find that the politics within Sylph were not anything like what we wanted to live with. Befriending all of our old enemies and taking on a completely neutral stance even towards UKÆs long time enemies CVA. When UK once again became under fire and possible destruction, Sylph chose not to act; which is something I do not hold against them though it sat ill with my conscience. I will not go into all of our reasons for leaving Sylph as I have already outlined it in a previous post; however we left on good terms to join up with UK. This action was widely accepted by my member base as UK were the ones that had taken us under their wing and helped us with our trek into 0.0 space.
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Skirge
Minmatar
Central Defiance
Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.05.21 17:16:00 -
[170]
After a long period of membership within UK we found our member base fading, and with some internal disputes we made the decision to leave the alliance back to our old home of Devoid so that we could reorganize and rebuild. We maintained contact with UK, setting any corp they requested to positive and going back to our old NBSI policy in our old home.
You may call it piracy if you want, however we look upon it as protecting our home. Should you have ill thoughts of us because of that you take it up with us, do not blame UK for harboring pirates; for they did nothing of the sort. As far as honor and loyalty go, can CVA really boast anything when all they ever did was bring in capital ships and fleets to take on our small gangs? Stop being hypocrites and go read your pax CVA, you will never have my respect for you do not know how to give it
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Vectrasor Volta
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Posted - 2007.05.23 22:34:00 -
[171]
Originally by: EveJoker
Well CVA are actually anti piracy. It makes me wonder why they are so chummy with IAC though, who appear to meet their own definition of pirate. Still I guess their priests provide forgivness their sins, and that justifies the relationship.
That sounds a lot like Catholicism to me. At any rate, most corps and alliances I know, except for IAC for a while had a not blue, your through, policy. If you got killed by guys who weren't anything to you, don't cry about it. Just adopt your own NBSI policy yourself, or stay the hell out of low sec.
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