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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14662	Posted - 2017.02.21 16:56:01 - [1] - Quote Hey everyone! After some discussion about anchored bubbles and interdiction nullification with the CSM at our recent summit here in Iceland we asked the CSM folks to help get some community discussion going on these topics so we could hear from all of you. Big thanks to the CSM and to everyone who participated in the threads on our forums and on the eve subreddit. From these threads it's clear that the community has a strong desire for some changes to mobile warp disruptors, as many of those topics kept coming up from many diverse voices. After taking in the feedback from these threads and discussing with the CSM some more we've got a proposed package of anchored bubble changes ready to get your feedback. These changes will be ready for you to try as soon as our upcoming March release hits the SISI test server. Most of these changes were things we've discussed with the community before and that we've had on our long-term wish list for quite a while. Back when we introduced mobile deployables in the Rubicon release we had rough plans to transfer the mobile disruptors over to the new mobile deployable system which would have given us most of these features for free, but we ended up getting snagged in some technical troubled related to corporation connections (replicating the launch for corp function with the mobile deployable system required more work that we ended up having to cut for time). I'm really glad that we were able to find some time after the CSM discussions to take another look and find opportunities to make these changes with a set of more surgical tweaks. Here's the changes we have in this proposed package: Mobile Warp Disruptors will generate killmails when destroyed. Mobile Warp Disruptors will decay and explode if left in space for extended periods of time. The numbers we have in mind for this first pass are quite conservative and are intended primarily to clean up long-term unattended bubbles. If the first pass works out we will reevaluate and decide if it is worth moving to shorter timers someday in the future. Scooping and re-deploying a bubble would reset the decay timer. The numbers we're working with right now are: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles Hitpoint and shield regen changes: ~10% less HP for T1 bubbles ~20% more HP for T2 bubbles ~50% more HP for Syndicate bubbles Significantly longer shield regen times for all anchored bubbles, which will reduce passive shield tanking by the bubbles and make destroying them with low DPS much easier Syndicate bubble specific changes: Syndicate bubbles will gain bubble range equal to T2 The LP store offers for Syndicate bubbles will now require a T2 bubble instead of a T1 bubble as input We're very interested in hearing what you think of these changes. If we go ahead with them they will hit TQ in our 119.3 release in March. Thanks! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Trespasser S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 60	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:03:58 - [2] - Quote will the bubbles have a visible timer on them so that we can see how long that is left? Also i would like to see t1 bubbles moved to 3 days instead of 2.. so they live for about half the time.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 3147	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:04:22 - [3] - Quote First.

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14662	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:05:13 - [4] - Quote Trespasser wrote: will the bubbles have a visible timer on them so that we can see how long that is left? Yup. It'll show up in the show-info windows in the same way as it does currently for mobile deployables with decay timers. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2650	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:10:42 - [5] - Quote Couple of questions. 1) If a bubble's lifetime expires, does it generate a killmail? B) Does the killmail generate for the person who drops it (at the personal level) and for the corporation (at the corporate level?) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Sullen Decimus Polaris Rising The Bastion 55	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:13:45 - [6] - Quote This seems like a great compromise. Twitter: Sullen_Decimus Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus Sullen Decimus for CSM XII
Bobmon Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 205	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:16:04 - [7] - Quote Great! @BobmonEVE - BOBMON FOR CSM 12
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 34	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:23:24 - [8] - Quote I love this! Keep these player base driven ideas coming! It's nice to see you guys responding to the thoughts of the community.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6492	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:25:58 - [9] - Quote Thanks for this Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
White 0rchid SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 24	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:27:43 - [10] - Quote This looks like a decent change for sure.

Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2868	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:28:55 - [11] - Quote Good start, though I'd like to see all bubbles die in 24 hours or less. Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Eduardo The Spacemarine Squad Broken 2	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:31:07 - [12] - Quote Is now the time to bring up the real issue with deployables. Littering. People in space, like on earth are swine, filthy disgusting swine. Jita, the once beautiful home of trading and prosperity, has turned into a disgusting smelly landfill. Junk and garbage is littering the busy spacelanes serving a real risk to innocent space travelers. Because of this, I suggest to you CCP Fozzie, and to all the distinguished gentlemen representatives of the CSM, a complete ban on launching deployable structures in Jita, let's make Jita safe again and end these dangerous collision hazards. Oh, and also, fix the goddamn retina burning eye cancer from intersecting bubbles
lanyaie Nocturnal Romance The Initiative. 1163	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:33:40 - [13] - Quote Will Mobile warp disruptors have their material requirements changed due to this proposed change to balance for the increased consumption? Spaceprincess
Germaq Heretic Army Escalating Entropy 12	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:34:03 - [14] - Quote Will these bubble timers start when the patch is deployed for bubbles already in space?
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 65	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:37:15 - [15] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Oh the amount of playstyles you have to be ignorant of to even suggest this makes me lol PS: Lots of us dont care about how frustrating nullified combat ships might have been for nullblob people. Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers. Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler. Youtube channel.
Fifth Blade Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance 78	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:37:28 - [16] - Quote Much shorter expiry times would be an improvement (4-6h). So that people can still use them strategically, but it would prevent renters from bubbling each of their gates once every day (which results in no effective change). Surgical bubbles could use a rework to be made useful, also. If you really wan't to disrupt nullification....
Tyrant Scorn 215	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:40:09 - [17] - Quote I use my warp bubbles a lot and I think it's completely useless to have them last for such a long time. I unanchor mine when I move to a new system and never leave them in space. People only leave them in space now because they do not generate a killmail, so no one cares if they leave them behind. So, I think it's a very good change that they are getting decay. For nullsec, this now means you have to maintain your bubble traps, you have to actively manage them, which means, people in space, ships in space, people undocking. I fully support this upcoming change !!! The Tyrant King YouTube \| Twitter \| Twitch
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 24	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:40:33 - [18] - Quote Great Job. A little faster decay would be better, 2 days and 1 week is forever. However I suspect CCP wants to see the effect of having a kmail generated before they reduce the decay rate. Not an unwise decision, you are going to see a lot more people killing bubbles thats for sure! Still though 2 days and 1 week is a long ass time.
Squizz Caphinator Primary. 207	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:41:07 - [19] - Quote What about different sizes having different timers, such as T1 small having 12 hours, T1 medium 24 hours, and T1 large 48 hours? Same logic would apply to T2 and Syndicates. Various projects I enjoy putting my free time into: https://zkillboard.com \| https://evewho.com
coolkay Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore 23	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:41:25 - [20] - Quote 2 day? http://i.imgur.com/wMsI10U.gif i will play and not only make new bubels and ancering 30-90 day is hard but ok but htis is ******

Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate 168	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:46:07 - [21] - Quote Reasonable changes as an intermediary step towards a structure solution. Only thought is that unanchoring delay should be reduced to half or 1/3. Anchoring is fine: drop, anchor, move off. But this now becomes part of ongoing maintenance and unanchoring requires waiting around and then re-anchoring. Not sure it needs to take that much time. Then again, maybe bubbles are just considered disposable items these days.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 657	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:47:21 - [22] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles small T2 are worth pennies, nothing will change if they will be anchored for a week. "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville If you need a scout mail me.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2650	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:47:35 - [23] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Good start, though I'd like to see all bubbles die in 24 hours or less. Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Agreed, except replace "interceptor" with "shuttle." The Victorieux Luxury Yacht can stay nullified, too. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate 168	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:48:06 - [24] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Oh the amount of playstyles you have to be ignorant of to even suggest this makes me lol PS: Lots of us dont care about how frustrating nullified combat ships might have been for nullblob people. Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers. Yeah Grath. Ya damn ignant PS - remove it from ceptors too
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2650	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:50:33 - [25] - Quote I'd also support interdiction nullification being effective for anchored bubbles, but not for warp disrupt probes and/or warp disruption field generators. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Huydo Tr0pa de elite. Northern Coalition. 63	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:53:05 - [26] - Quote Death to all bots :)
Alderson Point Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:53:14 - [27] - Quote Querns wrote: I'd also support interdiction nullification being effective for anchored bubbles, but not for warp disrupt probes and/or warp disruption field generators. No change needed, interceptors are fine as they are adding a nullified shuttle wouldn't hurt though,
Agilis Andedare The Explicit Holdings The Explicit Alliance 7	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:55:52 - [28] - Quote It's as if thousands of renters are going to suddenly cry out in terror.... This is a great change!
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2650	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:57:06 - [29] - Quote Alderson Point wrote: Querns wrote: I'd also support interdiction nullification being effective for anchored bubbles, but not for warp disrupt probes and/or warp disruption field generators. No change needed, interceptors are fine as they are adding a nullified shuttle wouldn't hurt though, False. Interceptors have combat capability. As such, there should be an expectation to be able to stop them from running, rampant, through your space, if you're willing to dedicate human effort towards it. This is why I support nullification being only effective towards "passive" bubbles. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2804	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:01:02 - [30] - Quote Fabulous! I have advocated for this idea for a long time. I'm so glad to finally see it come to fruition. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mr Hyde113 ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 348	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:01:06 - [31] - Quote Time to shake the dust off your Oracles and farm some juicy bubble KMs Mr Hyde - CSM XI Permanent Attendee Youtube Channel Twitter
Obil Que Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance 485	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:03:07 - [32] - Quote Mr Hyde113 wrote: Time to shake the dust off your Oracles and farm some juicy bubble KMs So, will killing a bubble generate a killmark?
cpu939 Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 107	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:03:18 - [33] - Quote Myself i would like to see T1 Small - 5 hours med - 10 hours Large - 15 hours T2 50% bonus on there T1 counter part, faction bubbles 100% bonus on there T! counterpart yes large would give over a days worth of time. nullified shuttle only
Nou Mene Out of Focus Odin's Call 19	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:03:58 - [34] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hitpoint and shield regen changes: ~10% less HP for T1 bubbles ~20% more HP for T2 bubbles ~50% more HP for Syndicate bubbles Significantly longer shield regen times for all anchored bubbles, which will reduce passive shield tanking by the bubbles and make destroying them with low DPS much easier why if they are degrading in space HP is not linked to elapsed time? would not be interesting if they were to lose HP as times goes by to finally die? will they produce a wreck?
Ezio Dicostanzo Out of Focus Odin's Call 23	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:04:06 - [35] - Quote bubbles should be ONE DAY MAX or ratting systems with 354537434 bubbles on the gate are still gonna be a thing :( Fozzie, what happened to metaballs where intersecting bubbles are merged into one continuous geometry, shown during fanfest 2014 ?
Yoski Yoski Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance. 2	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:04:49 - [36] - Quote The numbers I with they were Two days for all T1 bubbles 4 Days for all T2 bubbles 8 Days for all Syndicate bubbles Hitpoint and shield regen changes: ~10% less HP for T1 bubbles ~20% more HP for T2 bubbles ~50% more HP for Syndicate bubbles Significantly longer shield regen times for all anchored bubbles, which will reduce passive shield tanking by the bubbles and make destroying them with low DPS much easier
Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate 170	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:06:45 - [37] - Quote cpu939 wrote: Myself i would like to see T1 Small - 5 hours med - 10 hours Large - 15 hours T2 50% bonus on there T1 counter part, faction bubbles 100% bonus on there T! counterpart yes large would give over a days worth of time. nullified shuttle only Not sure about the times. Maybe 12/24/48 to align with their current suggestion of 2 days for T1. But yeah, no reason bubble size shouldn't also be considered for decay along with Tech version
Mynxee Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 307	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:07:19 - [38] - Quote I love the killmail generation -- not for the reasons others might, but as a way to gain insight into which of my spacekids might be doing things they shouldn't under our Credo. So...killmails for ALL the things! The decay timer is a welcome change just for helping to clear space junk. As a side note, it is great to see the positive coordination between CSM and CCP these days. Lost in space, looking for sigs... Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
Icarus Narcissus Pathway to the Next 44	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:07:44 - [39] - Quote So, a few questions: 1) Will bubbles still be re-scoopable after deployment? 2a) If yes, will their timer reset when they are re-deployed? 2b) If no to either of the previous, will their material costs be changed in any way to account for what will be a major increase in consumption. 3) Will bubbles in space at the time of launch start counting down as soon as the patch hits? 4) Out of curiosity, could CCP release the number of bubbles in space the day of this launch and again 2 weeks later? It would be interesting to see the impact this has on space clutter.
Suitonia KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 756	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:07:48 - [40] - Quote This is a good step forward, although I think your timers are a little too conservative. I'd like to see 48 hours max on T2 bubbles, and 1 week for syndicate which currently see no usage. Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

The Slayer Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 334	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:09:49 - [41] - Quote A week is still about 6 days too long. Have the timer be low but be able to be refreshed by the person who anchored it re accessing the bubble, like a secure container in space.
Brown Pathfinder Its a good day to die 17	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:12:22 - [42] - Quote This looks like a good balqnced change, maybe reduce the materials for building bubbles to lower the price a little?
sharpscg shiva Northern Coalition. 19	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:16:20 - [43] - Quote The purpose Warp Disruptors fulfill Before looking at how to tweak mobile warp disruptors, lets first extablish how they are currently used. I know this is not an complete list, but I am confident to say these two cases cover at least 90% of all deployed bubbles. 1. Gatecamping Static gatecamps are camps, where the camper has no intention to move. Only a single gate, or a small collection of adjacent gates are camped. The static nature of mobile warp disruptos perfectly assists in this task. A low number of bubbles is deployed for the camp, and protected by players for the duration of the camp. After the camp is over the bubbles are often left behind. 2. Protecting system entrances An entity might choose to deploy a large amount of bubbles on a gate to protect the local pve operations from intruders. The bubbles are not actively defended, and are meant to stay in space for long periods. The Gameplay Problem of Warp Disruptors Being interrupted in travel activities by mobile warp disruptors is not fun. If the bubble is part of an active gate camp, you probably loose your ship, but that is fair game as conter play exists in the form of scouting/intel/etc. If the bubble is not part of an active camp, they are a big annoyance. It takes unnecessary time to fly out of the bubbles. Counter play exists in this situation as well, but is primarily an annoyance instead of a fun and engaging gameplay aspect. The Solution The solution laid out by Fozzie is obvious: put a decay on the bubbles. This way both of the outlaid uses of warp disruptors are preserved, while limiting the encounters with left behind and long abandoned bubbles. However, I think the proposed decay timers are not enough. A 2 day timer on T1 bubbles is far more then necessary to support gatecamps. I think T1 and T2 bubbles should be cheap deployables for gatecamps, with a decay time similar to the average length of a gate camp. This way, the annoyance caused by landing in abandoned bubbles in busy pipes would be significantly reduced, while not impacting gatecamps negatively. As for the second use case of bubbling the hell out of ratting pockets, a longer decay time is necessary. I think the syndicate faction bubbles should fill this use case. If you want to be safe while crabbing, you should pay up for these premium bubbles and the safety they provide. Additionally, I do want to stress that i find the option to scoop bubbles is important. Having that one bubble you put out every time you camp and bring back home after the camp lets you grow attached to that item - definitely more fun than throwing out a new bubble each time. While scooping and redeploying bubbles would introduce the "exploit" of circumventing bubble declay, I do think there is value in this option. Related note: The cost of syndicate bubbles is ridiculous! At the very fair price of 2k isk/lp for nullsec mission rewards we are looking at well over 100m for a faction large bubble. I think the lp store price should be reduced.
Les Routiers Proudly Snoring Game Of Anomalies 23	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:16:37 - [44] - Quote Icarus Narcissus wrote: So, a few questions: 1) Will bubbles still be re-scoopable after deployment? 2a) If yes, will their timer reset when they are re-deployed? 2b) If no to either of the previous, will their material costs be changed in any way to account for what will be a major increase in consumption. Answer to the first two: CCP Fozzie wrote: Scooping and re-deploying a bubble would reset the decay timer. Answer to the other one: I hope not! And before people whine that they get less value for ISK, the answer is supply and demand. If you feel bubbles aren't good value for money, don't buy them. If they generate killmails, decay isn't going to be so much of a problem as most roaming fleets will just clear bubble while their scouts look for real targets. Also, @nullification. The problem with interceptors like Fozzieclaws isn't nullification, it is nullification coupled with combat capability. If combat interceptors become less powerful against ships bigger than frigates, interceptor fleets are going to lose a lot of their appeal. http://fr.capstable.net/ - podcast en français sur Eve online.
Alhira Katserna Teutonum Confederation Evictus. 2424	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:20:05 - [45] - Quote Ezio Dicostanzo wrote: bubbles should be ONE DAY MAX or ratting systems with 354537434 bubbles on the gate are still gonna be a thing :( Fozzie, what happened to metaballs where intersecting bubbles are merged into one continuous geometry, shown during fanfest 2014 ? A dev answered this question a few days ago on reddit. This got depraved by CCP as there were heavy performance issues with the way they tried it. It is still on their radar though.
Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate 170	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:21:32 - [46] - Quote Mynxee wrote: I love the killmail generation -- not for the reasons others might, but as a way to gain insight into which of my spacekids might be doing things they shouldn't under our Credo. So...killmails for ALL the things! The decay timer is a welcome change just for helping to clear space junk. As a side note, it is great to see the positive coordination between CSM and CCP these days. Look at Mynxee spying on the spacekids. Bubbles are just big hug blankets
Rainus Max Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 68	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:26:13 - [47] - Quote Can't say I like this change... however some suggestions: Give a bonus to the survival time if anchored in your sov - use the ADM system we've got now, say double the length in ADM 6 Yes that means carebears have better defense, but I dont think its an unreasonable defense. I don't like the unachour/scoop/reanchour mechanic to reset the timer - could we perhaps reset the timer via entosis?
Ashterothi Aideron Robotics 432	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:36:08 - [48] - Quote My only real concern about this is a faction item being a t2 and not t1. But that is pretty minor. Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2651	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:37:31 - [49] - Quote Ashterothi wrote: My only real concern about this is a faction item being a t2 and not t1. But that is pretty minor. Better not look too closely at faction capital guns, then. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
SiXiN Mythic Inc Demonic Wheat Pineapple 1	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:46:31 - [50] - Quote I have to agree with some of the other posts here, a week is far to long. It should be something like 6 hours for a T1 and 24 hours for a T2 and something like 48 hours for a syndicate.

Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3467	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:47:35 - [51] - Quote Very good changes. The times are too long imo, but you can tweak at any time. I'm my own NPC alt.
Dirk MacGirk Specter Syndicate 170	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:48:13 - [52] - Quote Rainus Max wrote: Can't say I like this change... however some suggestions: Give a bonus to the survival time if anchored in your sov - use the ADM system we've got now, say double the length in ADM 6 Yes that means carebears have better defense, but I dont think its an unreasonable defense. I don't like the unachour/scoop/reanchour mechanic to reset the timer - could we perhaps reset the timer via entosis? Don't forget, this is an intermediate step until these items become structures. Easy, focused tweaks to existing items. Not a full re-coding that can add a bunch of new features, that would perhaps be possible later. Decay may be one thing, but tying into ADM or entosis is something more suitable for the latter, if we want to see changes anytime soon.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 34	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:48:25 - [53] - Quote SiXiN wrote: I have to agree with some of the other posts here, a week is far to long. It should be something like 6 hours for a T1 and 24 hours for a T2 and something like 48 hours for a syndicate. I think this is where most of the community is wanting the timers. Like he said though, the initial times thrown out are preliminary and will be adjusted as they go.
Captain Campion Campion Corp. 40	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:48:53 - [54] - Quote I think this change is good and should release in March as described. If possible, it would be good to do something about eye cancer.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 338	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:50:51 - [55] - Quote I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too?
Methos's Shadow HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:51:06 - [56] - Quote How about you do the same for cloaking make it use fuel or have a max time on it
Ayx Shewma The Scope Gallente Federation 154	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:59:06 - [57] - Quote Good changes. Bubble life times still seem a bit long. I'd say 12 hours on T1 and 2 days on T2.
Doyey3731 Deaf Eaters Shadow of xXDEATHXx 67	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:59:29 - [58] - Quote I'd suggest lowering the build cost for them if this is going to happen. T2 large can be pretty pricey if you're buying several, replacing them every few days will be expensive.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 338	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:05:19 - [59] - Quote Also thanks for adding in yet another repetitive job into the game....
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1277	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:06:20 - [60] - Quote still insanely too long. a few hours would be a more sensible return on the investment. if they're going to last for days then they are still a no-brainer thing you have up all the time it's good that you guys are actually thinking about this stuff though

Sub Starasque Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 20	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:06:39 - [61] - Quote I'm glad to see this change even if the currently proposed decay timers aren't brief enough yet. I don't think that any of the bubbles should last a full week, let alone two. A few days at absolute maximum would seem fit for purpose. Anything longer than that and you will still have the issue of dead end systems in renter pockets having such a wall of bubbles on gate that it literally turns your screen white.
ViolentDesire School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 143	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:08:47 - [62] - Quote Needs faster decay. T1 = 24h T2 = 72h Syndicate = 1 week
Or'es'ka Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:17:07 - [63] - Quote but seriously, can we please get an official answer? WILL BUBBLES GENERATE KILLMAILS! lol I think thats the real heart of this issue
Sophos Mileghere Birdsquad Project.Mayhem. 33	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:19:00 - [64] - Quote There is no gameplay rationale behind the timings. Infinite is clearly wrong and eve 48hours is too long in my eyes. Bubbles mechanics need to represent the same principles in most EVE activities, planning, grind and activity. There is no good reason for a bubble to last over 24 hours and if you wanted to be harsh, a 3 hour window would work well against op planning. Bubbles are not a commodity and should not be treated as such, they are part of tactical play and should therefore take the required effort needed to plan, manage and recover
Rainus Max Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 68	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:22:33 - [65] - Quote Dirk MacGirk wrote: Rainus Max wrote: Can't say I like this change... however some suggestions: Give a bonus to the survival time if anchored in your sov - use the ADM system we've got now, say double the length in ADM 6 Yes that means carebears have better defense, but I dont think its an unreasonable defense. I don't like the unachour/scoop/reanchour mechanic to reset the timer - could we perhaps reset the timer via entosis? Don't forget, this is an intermediate step until these items become structures. Easy, focused tweaks to existing items. Not a full re-coding that can add a bunch of new features, that would perhaps be possible later. Decay may be one thing, but tying into ADM or entosis is something more suitable for the latter, if we want to see changes anytime soon. True but why bodge it, why not hold off until the new structure system can be used. I completely understand they are a pain in the backside for PVPers (being one myself) but at the same time they add protection for groups of people who aren't PVP orientated. This change makes life harder for carebears and the people support them in nullsec. There needs to be a reasonable balance somewhere so that indy people can live and operate in nullsec otherwise you will simply see them move back to empire or amass into the larger PVP entities and drown out the smaller blocks because they struggle to rapidly deal with some of the larger roaming entities that can drop 15+ supers.
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT 1290	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:24:20 - [66] - Quote Hi guys Love it so far. quick question: Will there be any change to the visual effect? This is kind of extrem: http://imgur.com/QfyAagR http://imgur.com/QfyAagR Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Kyoko Ishikawa LOOK BOTH WAYS Infinity Space. 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:26:35 - [67] - Quote Thanks for decay and trash cleanup. Separately Has making bubbles affect warp speed ever been discussed? Do we have the technology? It would be an interesting avenue to create a little soft power where we slow down (or speed up) ships instead of just stopping them entirely. It could give another lever to balance nullification around. Maybe bubbles won't -stop- nulli ships but take a dump on their warp speed instead. It might be best for new, different bubbles, but it's an idea.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1277	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:28:51 - [68] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: Hi guys Love it so far. quick question: Will there be any change to the visual effect? This is kind of extrem: http://imgur.com/QfyAagR http://imgur.com/QfyAagR just drone region things
Dominous Nolen Powder and Ball Alchemist Industries 251	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:53:05 - [69] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Trespasser wrote: will the bubbles have a visible timer on them so that we can see how long that is left? Yup. It'll show up in the show-info windows in the same way as it does currently for mobile deployables with decay timers. This is great! Sorry if I'm asking a question already answered on a previous post, but what about anchoring/unanchoring timers like the other deployables? @dominousnolen
Robot Robot What. 81	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:00:23 - [70] - Quote Adding decay timers to bubbles is great. I agree with everyone that the decay could stand to be even faster, but I also really approve of being very conservative in the first pass on changes like this. One thought though: What about increasing the disruption radius on T1 bubbles to match that of T2 bubbles, letting the increased lifetime and HP be the distinguishing factors? Speaking as someone who uses bubbles almost exclusively in gatecamp situations where I only need them for a couple of hours, and as someone who also frequently leaves bubbles behind rather than unanchoring and scooping them when I'm done, I almost always use T2 bubbles specifically for the increased radius. If T1 bubbles had the same radius, then people like me would use them for the lower cost, leaving T2 bubbles for the people who wanted a more long-term presence. Or, alternately, what about introducing Meta bubbles that had T1 lifetimes but T2 radii?

Circumstantial Evidence 381	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:03:41 - [71] - Quote Adding support for: Timers scaling with bubble size, like (first post with the suggestion): Squizz Caphinator wrote: What about different sizes having different timers, such as T1 small having 12 hours, T1 medium 24 hours, and T1 large 48 hours? Same logic would apply to T2 and Syndicates. Metaballs - ccp please keep working on the performance issues and fix the "eye cancer" of large #'s of overlapping bubbles. No ship killmarks - only piloted ships should grant killmarks. Killmails on the other hand, sound good :)
Somal Thunder V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 35	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:18:39 - [72] - Quote I think the decay times are too short. Either those syndicates gotta last "forever", or I'd really want to see a "structure preservation array" so that I could build theme parks with perishable structures. Imagine a row of citadels, each with hoops of bubbles and stuff, who's going to maintain that stuff if the bubbles only last 2 weeks? Nobody is going to build & maintain a "structure theme park" if all the structures keep disappearing without even getting shot at!
Scotsman Howard S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore 171	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:37:57 - [73] - Quote Or'es'ka wrote: but seriously, can we please get an official answer? WILL BUBBLES GENERATE KILLMAILS! lol I think thats the real heart of this issue Go reread the post. Literally is the first highlighted item.
Insidious Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 22	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:38:08 - [74] - Quote dont like it all it does is discourage structure bubbles personally i would like a bubble meta, t3 expensive as hell bubble 1000km range (it is possible to balance that) hell yeah the carebears would love it only thing wrong with bubbles is the graphical white out
Soleil Fournier Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 178	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:47:56 - [75] - Quote I'd go with 3-4 days on T2 bubbles. A week seems excessive. The other proposed changes look good but what about a limit on how close bubbles can be anchored to one another (as to prevent 50 bubbles on a gate lagging out your CPU and disorienting players)?
Ex0101 The Scope Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:57:23 - [76] - Quote The duration's are far too long, I was looking forward to decaying bubbles and moving back to 0.0 after its in place, but this isn't going to change anything with the duration's proposed imo. Id like to see 24-48 hours at most.
Yodik Dwarfed ORE 29	Posted - 2017.02.21 21:06:47 - [77] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: ... Please, give to mobile warp disruptors possibility of anchoring inside gas clouds of gas sites, wh and null. Couse i can anchor mobile depot, mobile tractor unit and dictors can launch probes. -Æ -+-Ä-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-+-+-+-Å-é-+-+-¦ -ü-+-é-â-¦-å-+-+ - -¦-¦-ç-¦-¦ Prospect.
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 830	Posted - 2017.02.21 21:30:03 - [78] - Quote I would have liked to have seen shorter timers (24 hours for T1, 72 for T2, and 168 for Syndicate), but I can understand the desire to start small and work from there. However, what boggles my mind is the increase in EHP for T2 bubbles. Killing them is enough of a pain as it is. Reduce T1 bubble EHP by 25%, leave T2 EHP where it's at, and give Syndicate the 50% increase, instead. For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 419	Posted - 2017.02.21 21:40:54 - [79] - Quote PATCH DAY - DELETE ALL BUBBLES Then start over with the "New" bubbles Flame suit on motherfuckers
StainGuy EvE Elite Shitposters Club 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 22:19:41 - [80] - Quote While bending the space and time, did you found new gates for New Eden?

Ransu Asanari V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 514	Posted - 2017.02.21 22:31:55 - [81] - Quote I like the changes proposed. The T1 Bubbles are good for temporary use. The T2 bubbles are long enough to bubble a structure for a reinforcement window in Nullsec. More than enough in W-Space. A few questions: Will there be any changes to the MINIMUM anchoring distance between deployables or other structures (Gates, Citadels, POS, etc)? This might help prevent some of the bubble spam on gates by forcing the bubles to be spread out a bit more. Some of the tricks, like putting a small bubble inside of a large one to drag a ship deeper into a bubble may be affected (don't know if that's good or not). Will there be a MAXIMUM number of deployables around a structure, or will that be handled by the minimum distance between deployables? One of the proposals from Fanfest 2014 was to merge multiple interdiction fields into one "metaball". This would help save our retinas from blinding whiteness due to the overlap, and may have some performance advantages, as we would only have to render one object instead of many individual spheres. Is there any chance of picking up this initiative as part of the changeover to the new structure type? Here is the video for reference.
Professor Push Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 14	Posted - 2017.02.21 22:44:20 - [82] - Quote Nice Changes. Although I don't know how that timer would play nicely with the bubble graphics on older machines. I assume fine, but in case it doesn't show info would with a timer in days, hours, mins would also be of great help. Bubblef*cking a gate and zooming in is a display process killer sometimes. Thank you.
Matraca Gogiko Cuddleswarm Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 22:49:23 - [83] - Quote These durations would be a good starting point if you remove the ability to scoop, while keeping the cost around the same or higher, similar to a moble cynosaural inhibitor or mobile scan inhibitor. I'd also like to see an XL bubble that could reliably cover the entire spawn area even on regional gates with a little bit of area to spare - part of the problem with bubbles right now is to reasonably cover an entire gate, you often need to use so many bubbles that it becomes a performance issue, and the visuals for anyone inside that are nothing but a while screen. If this were to be introduced, kick back the durations of the smaller bubbles a bit and give this the 1 week duration proposed for T2 bubbles, so that an XL bubble would clearly be the more attractive choice. Volume somewhere around 10000-50000m3 maybe?
Circumstantial Evidence 381	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:30:17 - [84] - Quote Matraca Gogiko wrote: - part of the problem with bubbles right now is to reasonably cover an entire gate, you often need to use so many bubbles that it becomes a performance issue, and the visuals... This is an interesting idea; but no. Not only do players want to cover a large volume of space, but they also dump lots of them on a gate to create a hitpoint barrier. If your idea was carried out, that barrier would be scaled up enormously and be too easy to set up. White-out conditions will eventually be solved.
cpu939 Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 107	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:41:46 - [85] - Quote Dirk MacGirk wrote: cpu939 wrote: Myself i would like to see T1 Small - 5 hours med - 10 hours Large - 15 hours T2 50% bonus on there T1 counter part, faction bubbles 100% bonus on there T! counterpart yes large would give over a days worth of time. nullified shuttle only Not sure about the times. Maybe 12/24/48 to align with their current suggestion of 2 days for T1. But yeah, no reason bubble size shouldn't also be considered for decay along with Tech version +1 the times i add where as a lot of people wanted under the day is see no issue with longer times
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 3028	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:42:41 - [86] - Quote Squizz Caphinator wrote: What about different sizes having different timers, such as T1 small having 12 hours, T1 medium 24 hours, and T1 large 48 hours? Same logic would apply to T2 and Syndicates. Howabout that in reverse? T1 large 12 hours, T1 medium 24 hours, T1 small 48 hours. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Harrigan Raen 19	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:48:37 - [87] - Quote How about just limiting the amount per grid? Say 30-50? Stops the people that really abuse them, puts performance/load limits on them. I don't see how adding a decay timer fixes any of the root problems: Botters can still bot, now a player controlled person will just re-anchor the bubbles on the gate once per day, while the bots mine. Even if they aren't botting, 4-5 people once a week re-anchorring the whole gate will only take 1-2 hours max. Now on the flip side, Since Reddit got out the pitchforks and you guys responded in what 2 weeks? Can we get that anchorable structure that blocks cloaking?
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 3028	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:51:39 - [88] - Quote Harrigan Raen wrote: How about just limiting the amount per grid? Say 30-50? Then people will anchor the max number of bubbles in a distant part of the grid in order to prevent a thing from being bubbled. That will probably increase server load overall, and will definitely create a new kind of PVP that I don't think we really need. Besides, EVE is supposed to be a limitless place. If people put up enough bubbles in an area to lead to time dilation, we should be patting ourselves on the back and kicking CCP to reinforce the servers, not suggesting limits that prevent this gameplay. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kaleesh Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:52:57 - [89] - Quote I like to see the changes coming, but PLEASE, make it so that the bubbles not only create a killmail, also a wreck to salvage
Jacques Arkaral Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2017.02.21 23:57:54 - [90] - Quote Lets trade Bubble timers get implemented per design of this thread. Cloaking devices require fuel or they get Activation Time/Duration timers and Reactivation Delays.

Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 1579	Posted - 2017.02.22 00:38:54 - [91] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Oh the amount of playstyles you have to be ignorant of to even suggest this makes me lol PS: Lots of us dont care about how frustrating nullified combat ships might have been for nullblob people. Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers. > bombers bar hotdropper "Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers." The ONLY thing your corp seems to do is makes use of nullified t3s to blops hotdrop. It's one tiny singular playstyle, and while it does suit you well, or used to anyway, before that "olmeca gold 'you can't smartbomb me twice, PL! haha!'" drama blew up bombers bar into a pretty weak state lately (congrats on that, Olmeca, you made nullbearing a lot safer), it's also part of why strategic cruisers are in a broken state. The sooner it's (t3 nullificant subs) gone, the sooner ships like hacs and recons can start being seen as useful again. About time arazu and rapier hunters came back too.
Syri Taneka Un4seen Development Sev3rance 145	Posted - 2017.02.22 00:59:39 - [92] - Quote Please, among other things: No role requirement to anchor bubbles for Corp. An anchor/unanchor timer visible at least to the pilot who triggered the action and preferably to anyone allowed to pick it up again. Shorter use periods but either refresh by mere interaction (like with a Mobile Depot) or power by Cap Booster charges. As previously posted in the Warp Bubble Dragging Change thread 6 months ago (with minor edits): I'd rather see a refresh mechanic combining elements of classic POS and anchorable cans/fitting stations. System only has enough "charge" to run for so long, then goes down, but stays anchored. Player who anchored it (or someone from their corp/alliance, perhaps) then visits the bubble and "recharges" it, making it active again until the charge wears down. This could either be done as an artificial process through a timer, or with everyone's favorite inexpensive "munitions", cap booster charges. Actually, giving cap booster charges something else to be useful for would be a good thing for that item class; the most meaningful gameplay is achieved through interaction, and options. So let's pull the ASB into this cross-comparison for more flavor. Player anchors a bubble. The bubble needs a power supply to run, and can get it one of two ways. Either a player can online the bubble for a single cycle (ie 1 hour) using their ship's capacitor, or they can supply it with cap booster charges which it will eat until it runs out. Similar to the ASB, the appropriate size of the cap booster (and, consequently, the amount pulled from a ship) depends on bubble size (no differentiation between tech level, ergo t2 makes a larger bubble for the same charge cost). Using such a system, a tended bubble is relatively inexpensive to maintain, since cap is constantly regenerating on a ship, but an untended bubble will have a finite operation time, regardless of power supply. For a little extra flavor (but harder back-end design), online bubbles could be cap drained instead of destroyed outright to shut them down.
Ruby Gnollo 14	Posted - 2017.02.22 01:00:04 - [93] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: From these threads it's clear that the community has a strong desire for some changes to mobile warp disruptors, as many of those topics kept coming up from many diverse voices. CCP : Eve is your game : do whatever you like with the game, the playerbase answer, putting its real cash here ou there. Once again the CSM, like every year, made itself the voice of the very few. Who can believe anyone would pay for a game where being farmed by plexed accounts is what you should expect ? CCP, don't tell me you do believe that. Let's hope these changes will help you earn more money, cause this will mean your players will have found the hame better this way.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1305	Posted - 2017.02.22 01:05:20 - [94] - Quote Querns wrote: Alderson Point wrote: Querns wrote: I'd also support interdiction nullification being effective for anchored bubbles, but not for warp disrupt probes and/or warp disruption field generators. No change needed, interceptors are fine as they are adding a nullified shuttle wouldn't hurt though, False. Interceptors have combat capability. As such, there should be an expectation to be able to stop them from running, rampant, through your space, if you're willing to dedicate human effort towards it. This is why I support nullification being only effective towards "passive" bubbles. Anchored bubbles should have no effect on nullified ships where as a launched bubble (hic or dictor) does. As Querns said - To catch that nullified ceptor or T3 you need to put in the effort with real people in the right ship types (hics and dictors) not just an anchored bubble. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Erika Mizune The Soul Society Army of New Eden 2433	Posted - 2017.02.22 01:17:24 - [95] - Quote I like this change Also, more stuff to KM whore on! DJ Yumene of Eve Radio \| Blog \| Sounds of New Eden \| Eve Radio \| BPO Quest \| Erika 4 CSM
Alexhandr Shkarov Swamphole Inc. 58	Posted - 2017.02.22 03:51:44 - [96] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: The numbers we're working with right now are: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles I do not believe that this is aggressive enough. A bubble should not be an item that can be left attended for weeks in order to shield a system. I feel that it requires interaction with these bubbles or else they unanchor and deactivate. Instead of your numbers, I personally believe the following would be a lot more in line with what we need: Twelve hours for all T1 bubbles 24 hours for all T2 bubbles 48 hours for all Syndicate bubbles This doesn't mean that the item disappears, it just goes offline and stops working. This way the defending party needs to put effort into redeploying their defenses. Any bubbles remaining at downtime that float in space without being anchored should then just be purged. All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
Equto Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 56	Posted - 2017.02.22 04:55:07 - [97] - Quote So few people see why the timelimits were set to where they are. This is a test to see just how manned the bubbles really are. To everyone acting like the reason you want timers is due to "inconvenience" during travel. Realize that ratters cannot protect their space they will just move to highsec incursions or missions and you will still be left without the easy kills you are attempting to generate from this, just like the removal local scream.
Siegfried Hilanen REDSTAR INITIATIVE 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 04:58:17 - [98] - Quote another isk sink introduced by ccp. and all the big slow miners, must join a big blob.. or put up new bubbles every few days.. Like doing PI, (getting burned out yet?) and why? so ****** mcgee gets to not use his mwd? all these small gangs are nanofit anyways. lets face it rorqual mining is a success. the fact that you guys wanna generate a killmail out of this bubble, just shows how elite pvp you guys are.. /sadface
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1305	Posted - 2017.02.22 05:06:54 - [99] - Quote Doyey3731 wrote: I'd suggest lowering the build cost for them if this is going to happen. T2 large can be pretty pricey if you're buying several, replacing them every few days will be expensive. How much can you make ratting for a few days? If between a group of ratters you can't afford to replace your bubbles "every few days", you're doing it wrong. It is a cost that allows you safer ratting - Put it down as an expense like ammo. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2804	Posted - 2017.02.22 05:35:49 - [100] - Quote The duration is fine considering that we have an incentive to shoot them now. Honestly, that's probably the only change that was needed. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 421	Posted - 2017.02.22 06:02:22 - [101] - Quote Siegfried Hilanen wrote: another isk sink introduced by ccp. and all the big slow miners, must join a big blob.. or put up new bubbles every few days.. Like doing PI, (getting burned out yet?) and why? so ****** mcgee gets to not use his mwd? all these small gangs are nanofit anyways. lets face it rorqual mining is a success. the fact that you guys wanna generate a killmail out of this bubble, just shows how elite pvp you guys are.. /sadface You know, you can SCOOP them Then re deploy
Ruby Gnollo 14	Posted - 2017.02.22 06:41:04 - [102] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: You know, you can SCOOP them Then re deploy Well, you know, even without 1/100th of a **** about game design, I could easily conceive a more engaging gameplay. Do you really expect me to pay to play that ?
Windsigh Real Life Outpost Solyaris Chtonium 6	Posted - 2017.02.22 06:55:30 - [103] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Oh the amount of playstyles you have to be ignorant of to even suggest this makes me lol PS: Lots of us dont care about how frustrating nullified combat ships might have been for nullblob people. Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers. Very well said
FistyMcBumBardier TURN LEFT 126	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:13:30 - [104] - Quote Please incorporate a way to steal unused bubbles. So if after the decay they no longer inhibit warp and become scoopable by anyone. This will allow people to roam around in DST's and Blockade runners making a living! Please let us roleplay deep space salvagers or garbagemen/women.
FistyMcBumBasher TURN LEFT 128	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:13:30 - [105] - Quote Please incorporate a way to steal unused bubbles. So if after the decay they no longer inhibit warp and become scoopable by anyone. This will allow people to roam around in DST's and Blockade runners making a living! Please let us roleplay deep space salvagers or garbagemen/women.
Henry Plantgenet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 164	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:31:07 - [106] - Quote coolkay wrote: 2 day? http://i.imgur.com/wMsI10U.gif i will play and not only make new bubels and ancering 30-90 day is hard but ok but htis is ****** unanchor bubble -> redeploy = infinite bubble time.
Dracvlad Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy 2897	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:40:11 - [107] - Quote I agree with these changes. I see people talking about removing interdiction nullifies from all but interceptors, strategic cruisers are something that enable people to who invested time and effort into moving around 0.0 with a certain level of security against bubbles, they can't carry much and can be caught if there are a lot of people at a gate camp. Also the fit is seriously gimped when covert cloaked and nullified. If CCP removes this ability from strategic cruisers you will remove yet another aspect of game play from small groups and solo players who cannot afford to drop an Astrahaus on their jump routes like others such as PL etc. If you listen to the CSM on this CCP then know that you are screwing over the smaller guys yet again, of course like normal you will ignore anything that helps more casual and smaller groups, this will directly benefit big groups. DO NOT REMOVE NULLIFICATION OR COVERT CLOAKS FROM STRATEGIC CRUISERS. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour. Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 406	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:47:04 - [108] - Quote Make them one-time use only, like mobile cyno inhibitors. The spice must flow.
dream fly Fuxi Legion Fraternity. 2	Posted - 2017.02.22 10:21:58 - [109] - Quote i am wondering if there will be some loot when u kill the bubble.people kill the bubble can get some reward,isnt it cool
Rin Shinwa Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 1	Posted - 2017.02.22 10:41:41 - [110] - Quote coolkay wrote: 2 day? http://i.imgur.com/wMsI10U.gif i will play and not only make new bubels and ancering 30-90 day is hard but ok but htis is ****** Are you actively using bubbles for PVP or are you just setting them up to make your ratting systems safe? If it's the latter, then that's exactly the thing this change is designed to curb. Which is a good thing.

Insidious Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 22	Posted - 2017.02.22 10:46:38 - [111] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: Hi guys Love it so far. quick question: Will there be any change to the visual effect? This is kind of extrem: http://imgur.com/QfyAagR http://imgur.com/QfyAagR this graphical white-out, is the only thing that needs to change
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:02:46 - [112] - Quote CCPL Fozzie strikes again. Those are "conservative"? Two days? Are you effing kidding me? How the **** could you use "two days" and "long term" in one post, are you on drugs? I've just subbed back and looking at this nonsense of a change I'm about to unsubscribe again, because the bubble management in just one constellation is about to become tremendous PITA which will take tens of hours of my time every bloody month. And for what? Just to clean up some bubbles from the last war? Fairly sure this can be achieved without screwing me over. > Mobile Warp Disruptors will generate killmails when destroyed. "Yay" more free intel. Seriously, Fozzie? STOP. STOP. STOP. STAAAAAAAAAAAAHP.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 3031	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:05:51 - [113] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: CCPL Fozzie strikes again. Those are "conservative"? Two days? Are you effing kidding me? How the **** could you use "two days" and "long term" in one post, are you on drugs? I've just subbed back and looking at this nonsense of a change I'm about to unsubscribe again, because the bubble management in just one constellation is about to become tremendous PITA which will take tens of hours of my time every bloody month. And for what? Just to clean up some bubbles from the last war? Fairly sure this can be achieved without screwing me over. > Mobile Warp Disruptors will generate killmails when destroyed. "Yay" more free intel. Seriously, Fozzie? STOP. STOP. STOP. STAAAAAAAAAAAAHP. I, um...I sort of agree. I mean, the timer seems a bit short to be honest. I wouldn't have worded it the way he did, but CCP I agree with his premise. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rainus Max Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 70	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:17:41 - [114] - Quote To be honest if you want to do this, fine, but it should be packaged with a few other changes. For example anti cloaking camping features, re-balance of T3 nullification and a few other bits that have sat in the pile of things to fix for years that we've been told are known issues and will be addressed but never have.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:28:07 - [115] - Quote Sullen Decimus wrote: This seems like a great compromise. Bobmon wrote: Great! Steve Ronuken wrote: Thanks for this Mr Hyde113 wrote: Time to shake the dust off your Oracles and farm some juicy bubble KMs Making the list of people who should never be anywhere near CCPL's ears. And probably legally excommunicated from CCPL Fozzie.
Huydo Tr0pa de elite. Northern Coalition. 65	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:30:53 - [116] - Quote Rainus Max wrote: To be honest if you want to do this, fine, but it should be packaged with a few other changes. For example anti cloaking camping features, re-balance of T3 nullification and a few other bits that have sat in the pile of things to fix for years that we've been told are known issues and will be addressed but never have. Get a better corp mates and don't complain about hotdroppers? If you want to rat, fine. If you have a cloacky camper, even better. Fit a cyno and scram on your rattle, be in a standing fleet, and have corp/ally mates with a carrier/dread/fax & recons on second screen ( you should have it on second screen too ofc )
Rainus Max Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 70	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:43:58 - [117] - Quote Huydo wrote: Rainus Max wrote: To be honest if you want to do this, fine, but it should be packaged with a few other changes. For example anti cloaking camping features, re-balance of T3 nullification and a few other bits that have sat in the pile of things to fix for years that we've been told are known issues and will be addressed but never have. Get a better corp mates and don't complain about hotdroppers? If you want to rat, fine. If you have a cloacky camper, even better. Fit a cyno and scram on your rattle, be in a standing fleet, and have corp/ally mates with a carrier/dread/fax & recons on second screen ( you should have it on second screen too ofc ) I dont complain because it stops me ratting I complain because perma afk cloaking is a mechanic thats been borked for ages. I have zero issues with my corp or alliance being able to respond to reasonable threats & drops. If someone camps fine but they shouldn't be able to sit there 24/7 doing nothing and at pretty much zero risk themselves.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 3031	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:55:57 - [118] - Quote Rainus Max wrote: If someone camps fine but they shouldn't be able to sit there 24/7 doing nothing and at pretty much zero risk themselves. I agree. There should be scanner probes for detecting cloaked ships, but it should take several minutes minimum to scan one down and it should only bring you to the approximate area so you still have to find and decloak them yourself. Essentially, it should be completely useless against anyone cloaked and active, or anyone who briefly AFKs while cloaked. FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 35	Posted - 2017.02.22 11:57:23 - [119] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Rainus Max wrote: If someone camps fine but they shouldn't be able to sit there 24/7 doing nothing and at pretty much zero risk themselves. I agree. There should be scanner probes for detecting cloaked ships, but it should take several minutes minimum to scan one down and it should only bring you to the approximate area so you still have to find and decloak them yourself. Essentially, it should be completely useless against anyone cloaked and active, or anyone who briefly AFKs while cloaked. I'd have to agree with this only to be able to weed out the ones that afk for hours on end. Make it take some effort to find them, but put the results within say 10 or 20km of the ship, not right on it. Not a bad idea.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 12:11:17 - [120] - Quote James Zealot wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Rainus Max wrote: If someone camps fine but they shouldn't be able to sit there 24/7 doing nothing and at pretty much zero risk themselves. I agree. There should be scanner probes for detecting cloaked ships, but it should take several minutes minimum to scan one down and it should only bring you to the approximate area so you still have to find and decloak them yourself. Essentially, it should be completely useless against anyone cloaked and active, or anyone who briefly AFKs while cloaked. I'd have to agree with this only to be able to weed out the ones that afk for hours on end. Make it take some effort to find them, but put the results within say 10 or 20km of the ship, not right on it. Not a bad idea. inb4 cloakybot v0.1 which constantly warps between safespots.

Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 4	Posted - 2017.02.22 12:37:46 - [121] - Quote Agilis Andedare wrote: It's as if thousands of renters are going to suddenly cry out in terror.... This is a great change! You, I like you :D
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 4	Posted - 2017.02.22 12:42:03 - [122] - Quote Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :)
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 12:58:13 - [123] - Quote Cable Uta wrote: Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :) How about you stfu about a playstyle you're completely clueless about? Having to break ratting for every curious Thrasher is the same as not ratting at all.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 335	Posted - 2017.02.22 12:59:42 - [124] - Quote Personally I'd be more than happy if bubbles just died quicker and generated killmails, but not going to complain about the expiry times on them. Seen some stupid amounts of bubbles on gates whilst roaming around and am looking forward to hopefully there being less of it (or atleast making it expensive for the bubble owners...)
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:02:12 - [125] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Personally I'd be more than happy if bubbles just died quicker and generated killmails, but not going to complain about the expiry times on them. Seen some stupid amounts of bubbles on gates whilst roaming around and am looking forward to hopefully there being less of it (or atleast making it expensive for the bubble owners...) Yet another one fails to realize that not only bubbles, but also targets behind them are going to be extinct. ED: The only ratting will be left is supercarrier ratting with one hand on batphone. I sincerely wish your roams good luck in hunting any of these.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1305	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:03:03 - [126] - Quote Cable Uta wrote: Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :) Because - Effort Because - There is something good on netflix Because - Can't complain about hotdroppers if you're there watching for them, so have to afk rat Because - AFK nulbears are entitled - to what I'm not sure but they will (and are here) telling us they are My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 35	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:04:25 - [127] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Cable Uta wrote: Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :) How about you stfu about a playstyle you're completely clueless about? Having to break ratting for every curious Thrasher is the same as not ratting at all. I will have to agree with that first part, I'm sure the guy is just being eve about it, but yeah, people play in different ways, crazy right?
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 336	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:07:09 - [128] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: Personally I'd be more than happy if bubbles just died quicker and generated killmails, but not going to complain about the expiry times on them. Seen some stupid amounts of bubbles on gates whilst roaming around and am looking forward to hopefully there being less of it (or atleast making it expensive for the bubble owners...) Yet another one fails to realize that not only bubbles, but also targets behind them are going to be extinct. ED: The only ratting will be left is supercarrier ratting with one hand on batphone. I sincerely wish your roams good luck in hunting any of these. We roam into plenty of groups who aren't hiding behind 10s of bubbles. Not all entities in nullsec are wimps expecting highsec like safety.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:08:46 - [129] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: Personally I'd be more than happy if bubbles just died quicker and generated killmails, but not going to complain about the expiry times on them. Seen some stupid amounts of bubbles on gates whilst roaming around and am looking forward to hopefully there being less of it (or atleast making it expensive for the bubble owners...) Yet another one fails to realize that not only bubbles, but also targets behind them are going to be extinct. ED: The only ratting will be left is supercarrier ratting with one hand on batphone. I sincerely wish your roams good luck in hunting any of these. We roam into plenty of groups who aren't hiding behind 10s of bubbles. Not all entities in nullsec are wimps expecting highsec like safety. This, yes, so much this. Roam around in Provi for a bit. Maybe Catch? I haven't experienced to many 10s of bubbles situations.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:11:45 - [130] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: We roam into plenty of groups who aren't hiding behind 10s of bubbles. Not all entities in nullsec are wimps expecting highsec like safety. 1) nullsec is way safer than hisec would ever be after all the nerfs. 2) keep roaming them and stfu with your complaining. 3) bubbles does not mean wimps, they buy time to react, nothing else. 4) wimps are the people crying about bubbles, too bad to send a fast tackle while you go through.

Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1305	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:12:20 - [131] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Cable Uta wrote: Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :) How about you stfu about a playstyle you're completely clueless about? Having to break ratting for every curious Thrasher is the same as not ratting at all. Your ratting ship/s have to dock up because they can't kill a curious thrasher? Even if it had a cyno fit you should be able to pop it before he gets to light it. Risk vs Reward - The fundamental backbone of Eve, get one (a backbone that is) My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 3057	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:12:52 - [132] - Quote I like the timed decay from the standpoint of CCP's general shift towards active play instead of passive play (i.e. requiring manned defenses for citadels, etc.). I would have handled the timers differently though. Bubbles are still effectively permanent (scoop, redeploy) so long as a player is willing to put in the effort to make them so. Generating killmails puts them on par with other deployables, which is good from the standpoint of consistency. However, I'm still not convinced that deployables should generate killmails at all, so I would rather the change gone the other way. Having deployables not generate killmails would lead to them being used (and destroyed) more often, both by the killboard-sensitive and those not wanting to give free intel. Overall, kinda meh. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures I predicted FAUXs
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 336	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:16:52 - [133] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: We roam into plenty of groups who aren't hiding behind 10s of bubbles. Not all entities in nullsec are wimps expecting highsec like safety. 1) nullsec is way safer than hisec would ever be after all the nerfs. 2) keep roaming them and stfu with your complaining. 3) bubbles does not mean wimps, they buy time to react, nothing else. 4) wimps are the people crying about bubbles, too bad to send a fast tackle while you go through. Where was I complaining? I'm perfectly happy with the change :) You appear to be the one with the major issue with it. But yeh, I'll carry on roaming as I do now ;) As for wimps, you're the guy saying you can't rat if there is a solo thrasher in your system? lol
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:20:35 - [134] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Your ratting ship/s have to dock up because they can't kill a curious thrasher? In current game balance, no, pvp fits have tremendously overwhelming advantage. Check capqu's ganking videos how he kills multiple pve tengus with his Thrasher, and they aren't even shitfit, it's just balance is that bad. Sgt Ocker wrote: Even if it had a cyno fit you should be able to pop it before he gets to light it. That's impossible and you know it. Why do you lie so poorly? Sgt Ocker wrote: Risk vs Reward - The fundamental backbone of Eve, get one (a backbone that is) ok let's check this one. Risk: insured Thrasher (read none). Reward: Infinite. Where is that backbone again?
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 336	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:22:25 - [135] - Quote ITT. Nerf Thrashers!
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 4	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:25:44 - [136] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Cable Uta wrote: Ncc 1709 wrote: I assume with this change, interdiction nullification will be removed too? How about just not afk ratting in your "safe" bubbled systems? :) How about you stfu about a playstyle you're completely clueless about? Having to break ratting for every curious Thrasher is the same as not ratting at all. Your ratting ship/s have to dock up because they can't kill a curious thrasher? Even if it had a cyno fit you should be able to pop it before he gets to light it. Risk vs Reward - The fundamental backbone of Eve, get one (a backbone that is) diz post <3
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 5	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:26:42 - [137] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: ITT. Nerf Thrashers! Yes the mighty Thrasher menace needs a serious nerf!
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:27:04 - [138] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Bubbles are still effectively permanent (scoop, redeploy) so long as a player is willing to put in the effort to make them so. This is looking to be the biggest chore of all eve should you decide to do it. 2/3 of hisec quit for less. Bronson Hughes wrote: Generating killmails puts them on par with other deployables, which is good from the standpoint of consistency. However, I'm still not convinced that deployables should generate killmails at all, so I would rather the change gone the other way. Having deployables not generate killmails would lead to them being used (and destroyed) more often, both by the killboard-sensitive and those not wanting to give free intel. Overall, kinda meh. this.
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 5	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:28:51 - [139] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Bubbles are still effectively permanent (scoop, redeploy) so long as a player is willing to put in the effort to make them so. This is looking to be the biggest chore of all eve should you decide to do it. 2/3 of hisec quit for less. Bronson Hughes wrote: Generating killmails puts them on par with other deployables, which is good from the standpoint of consistency. However, I'm still not convinced that deployables should generate killmails at all, so I would rather the change gone the other way. Having deployables not generate killmails would lead to them being used (and destroyed) more often, both by the killboard-sensitive and those not wanting to give free intel. Overall, kinda meh. this. So you're telling me there needs to be a retardproof area where anyone with a reaction time >5m can live? If this is your thought you should stay in highsec and leave nullsec to the big bois. kkthxbai <3

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14690	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:28:57 - [140] - Quote Hey folks thanks for the feedback so far! On the subject of the bubble durations we understand that there are a lot of strong feelings about proper durations (both people who think they should be shorter and those who think they should be longer). Balancing between the needs of different types of players is always a tightrope and all I can say is that we'll continue to work hard trying to thread that needle. Some Q&A: Querns wrote: Couple of questions. 1) If a bubble's lifetime expires, does it generate a killmail? I'm pretty sure it won't, due to the method of destruction used by the decay system. Querns wrote: B) Does the killmail generate for the person who drops it (at the personal level) and for the corporation (at the corporate level?) It's generated for whoever owns the bubble in space. So if it was "launched for self" the mail will generate for the person who dropped it, if it was "launched for corp" then it'll generate for the corporation. lanyaie wrote: Will Mobile warp disruptors have their material requirements changed due to this proposed change to balance for the increased consumption? Not at this time. If we do something more drastic in the future like dramatically shorten lifespans or making the bubbles disposable then we'd re-evaluate material inputs at that time and consider changes. Obil Que wrote: So, will killing a bubble generate a killmark? No, under their current implementation killmarks only come from killing piloted ships. Ashterothi wrote: My only real concern about this is a faction item being a t2 and not t1. But that is pretty minor. You'll see this more and more over time. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie


Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 5	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:32:48 - [141] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: lanyaie wrote: Will Mobile warp disruptors have their material requirements changed due to this proposed change to balance for the increased consumption? Not at this time. If we do something more drastic in the future like dramatically shorten lifespans or making the bubbles disposable then we'd re-evaluate material inputs at that time and consider changes. Don't see why cost mineral cost would be edited, I mean a T1 large bubble is what 30m? T2 like 50? I you manage them and don't just throw them out as trash you won't be loosing any money.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:33:43 - [142] - Quote Cable Uta wrote: So you're telling me there needs to be a retardproof area where anyone with a reaction time >5m can live? You mean like wormholes with every connection being critical? Bubbles give extra 4 seconds. Cable Uta wrote: If this is your thought you should stay in highsec and leave nullsec to the big bots. kkthxbai <3 ftfy. And yes, I'd rather be in hisec and play eve without dealing with losers who live in their mother's basements roaming only to get free kills on pve ships and running from everything resembling pvp. But hisec is dead, that's why I am in null.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 338	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:39:34 - [143] - Quote Some people dont hide behind bubbles, they use them to stop people running away all the time.
Lanny Gillert Black Hand Industries 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:39:49 - [144] - Quote Cable Uta wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Bubbles are still effectively permanent (scoop, redeploy) so long as a player is willing to put in the effort to make them so. This is looking to be the biggest chore of all eve should you decide to do it. 2/3 of hisec quit for less. Bronson Hughes wrote: Generating killmails puts them on par with other deployables, which is good from the standpoint of consistency. However, I'm still not convinced that deployables should generate killmails at all, so I would rather the change gone the other way. Having deployables not generate killmails would lead to them being used (and destroyed) more often, both by the killboard-sensitive and those not wanting to give free intel. Overall, kinda meh. this. So you're telling me there needs to be a retardproof area where anyone with a reaction time >5m can live? If this is your thought you should stay in highsec and leave nullsec to the big bois. kkthxbai <3 Or, you know, become the proper little renter b*h you truly are and pay ISK to slave masters to rent in **** systems where if you get tackled super blob can save you. BALANCE I THINK NOT CCP I PAY $$$ to mine in peace why do you do this.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:44:23 - [145] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks thanks for the feedback so far! On the subject of the bubble durations we understand that there are a lot of strong feelings about proper durations (both people who think they should be shorter and those who think they should be longer). Balancing between the needs of different types of players is always a tightrope and all I can say is that we'll continue to work hard trying to thread that needle. Dear CCPL Fozzie, this isn't good enough. CCP Fozzie wrote: Querns wrote: B) Does the killmail generate for the person who drops it (at the personal level) and for the corporation (at the corporate level?) It's generated for whoever owns the bubble in space. So if it was "launched for self" the mail will generate for the person who dropped it, if it was "launched for corp" then it'll generate for the corporation. Basically this means that not only I get tremendously time-consuming and alarm-clock-requiring chore )or a giant stick if I don't want to do it), but I also have to do it in a neutral alt to avoid free intel?! I don't know how to respond to being screwed over that badly. You seriously want us to unsub and spit in your general direction that badly? CCP Fozzie wrote: lanyaie wrote: Will Mobile warp disruptors have their material requirements changed due to this proposed change to balance for the increased consumption? Not at this time. If we do something more drastic in the future like dramatically shorten lifespans or making the bubbles disposable then we'd re-evaluate material inputs at that time and consider changes. Infinite until found by a basement dwelling loser with a gun -> 2 days (aka nothing because nobody could manage bubbles that often) and reduced tank. You say this isn't drastic enough? Just remove them from the game completely already ffs, would be pretty much the same. STOP.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:47:50 - [146] - Quote Lanny Gillert wrote: Or, you know, become the proper little renter b*h you truly are and pay ISK to slave masters to rent in **** systems where if you get tackled super blob can save you. BALANCE I THINK NOT CCP I PAY $$$ to mine in peace why do you do this. I am not a renter, I am a proud owner of little piece of northern space I won from goons in my bomber. I do not pay anyone for it. The problem is, entities without batphones want to rat and mine too, and that is getting incredibly difficult with those changes, to the point where a sign should be put up on eve NO RATTING AND MINING WITHOUT 5 FAX ALTS AND 50 TITANS BATPHONE ALLOWED.
DS9 Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:50:26 - [147] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Cable Uta wrote: So you're telling me there needs to be a retardproof area where anyone with a reaction time >5m can live? You mean like wormholes with every connection being critical? Bubbles give extra 4 seconds. Cable Uta wrote: If this is your thought you should stay in highsec and leave nullsec to the big bots. kkthxbai <3 ftfy. And yes, I'd rather be in hisec and play eve without dealing with losers who live in their mother's basements roaming only to get free kills on pve ships and running from everything resembling pvp. But hisec is dead, that's why I am in null. Me and lots of other people are ratting without a bubble swarm on a gate. Yes, from time to time we lose our ships and from time to time we have to escape and from time to time we kill the attacker. Please calm down and stop insulting others and adopt to the new changes. I see this change being a problem only for bot users that place 500 bubbles on 10 nearby gates and run a ratting bot on 5 accounts. Those people have no right to play or complain. CCP Fozzie wrote: Scooping and re-deploying a bubble would reset the decay timer. Could you please explain how this will work? I think it would be cool if anyone could scoop the bubble if it's left there for let's say 12 hours and decide what to do with it. Otherwise with those long, 2 week timers and making it that only the bubble owner has an ability to redeploy the bubble, things won't change and most gates will still have 100 bubbles causing lag and problems.
Oranen WIng and Prayer 7	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:53:33 - [148] - Quote Lower the materials/cost drastically and make the bubble only last as long as the person who deployed it is in the area/online/or downtime.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 13:58:06 - [149] - Quote DS9 wrote: Me and lots of other people are ratting without a bubble swarm on a gate. Yes, from time to time we lose our ships and from time to time we have to escape and from time to time we kill the attacker. Please calm down and stop insulting others and adopt to the new changes. 1) Escaping, losing ships and killing the attacker is not ratting. 2) I am calm and only insult people who are asking for it. 3) Those are not the changes yet, it's a discussion if they should be put in place. I would agree to a REASONABLE change, but 2 days are an order of magnitude below minimally rational. DS9 wrote: I see this change being a problem only for bot users that place 500 bubbles on 10 nearby gates and run a ratting bot on 5 accounts. Those people have no right to play or complain. 100% agree bot users have no right to complain. 100% disagree it is a problem for them as all it takes is a new script that automatically approaches bubbles on overview and redeploys them. This is trivial task for a bot, and humans will have hell to pay for this change.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:18:44 - [150] - Quote Cable Uta wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: lanyaie wrote: Will Mobile warp disruptors have their material requirements changed due to this proposed change to balance for the increased consumption? Not at this time. If we do something more drastic in the future like dramatically shorten lifespans or making the bubbles disposable then we'd re-evaluate material inputs at that time and consider changes. Don't see why cost mineral cost would be edited, I mean a T1 large bubble is what 30m? T2 like 50? I you manage them and don't just throw them out as trash you won't be loosing any money. I agree with this. Materials shouldn't really be changed. The only stat changing is time. Just be mindful of what you're doing and you won't lose out on that isk. Makes you appreciate what you have a little more lol

baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18665	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:23:30 - [151] - Quote You had me at generates a killmail
DS9 Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:25:12 - [152] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: DS9 wrote: Me and lots of other people are ratting without a bubble swarm on a gate. Yes, from time to time we lose our ships and from time to time we have to escape and from time to time we kill the attacker. Please calm down and stop insulting others and adopt to the new changes. 1) Escaping, losing ships and killing the attacker is not ratting. 2) I am calm and only insult people who are asking for it. 3) Those are not the changes yet, it's a discussion if they should be put in place. I would agree to a REASONABLE change, but 2 days are an order of magnitude below minimally rational. Ad 1. Yeah but the idea is that no high reward task should be risk free. Ratting in null is very lucrative and therefore needs to be associated with some risk. Therefore escaping, losing a ship or killing the attacker is a part of ratting (or actually any other eve activity) in nullsec, lowsec or even hisec. The greater the reward, the greater should be the risk. Ad 3. Well to me it looks like the previous topic was for the discussion, this one is to comment on the coming changes. I would agree that 2 day decay on the best bubble is too low, but it's 2 weeks for the best one and 2 days on the one that costs 720k ISK in crafting mats/minerals. Medium t1 is 2,5 mil ISK. Large t1 is 9,2m ISK. That's almost nothing. T2 is also fairly cheap: small - 3m, medium - 8m and large 18m in mats + the related invention costs. For 1 week of protection. The best one (syndicate large) is also fairly cheap as it cost 8,8m in mats + 30 mil and 45k lp to the bp --- for the 2 week long warp bubble. And even less ISK and lp for medium or small one. I think it should be from 12 hours for t1, 24 hours for t2 and 48 hours for syndicate since they are so cheap to craft. And if you pick them up yourself they reset the timers. You can earn enough ISK to place 20-30 bubbles in a couple of hours of ratting/mining with 1 account. Mining with rorq is more than 250m ISK an hour per account, ratting in the cheap VNI is 70m an hour per account. Then you can redeploy those bubbles every now and then. Oranen wrote: Lower the materials/cost drastically and make the bubble only last as long as the person who deployed it is in the area/online/or downtime. Look at the numbers above. They are already dirt cheap.
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 6	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:27:00 - [153] - Quote DS9 wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Scooping and re-deploying a bubble would reset the decay timer. Could you please explain how this will work? I think it would be cool if anyone could scoop the bubble if it's left there for let's say 12 hours and decide what to do with it. Otherwise with those long, 2 week timers and making it that only the bubble owner has an ability to redeploy the bubble, things won't change and most gates will still have 100 bubbles causing lag and problems. Any bubble has to be unanchored to be scooped, so doubt the can make it "anyone can take" simply cause it needs to be unanchored :P
Escobar Slim III YOLOSWAGHASHTAGDOLLARBILLZSWIMMINGPOOLICECREAMS 164	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:29:51 - [154] - Quote I personally believe that some of the nullsec are not to like this change for the rats they kill the shield wall be move and expire at time. and some of the nullsec will be unable to do so because some people out there in the nullsec don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in the Drone Lands and the Detorid everywhere like such as Delve, and, I believe that they should learn to make accomodate the change, or take our education by the PvP and lose bubble and some ships in case they still find a rat. this should help the hunter, should help minimize the afk empire and should help the Stabber and the Interdiction, so we will be able to build up our future killboards for our clone children who do not hide behind shield bubble and hide behind intel. This is a change for better and we hope to make more kills but one maybe change like as been said before in the thread is make the time shorter to one day of more maybe 48 hours which is two days at all said give or take a few hours. that is all really I am happy for this change mainly for my boys future killboard
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:37:53 - [155] - Quote Escobar Slim III wrote: I personally believe that some of the nullsec are not to like this change for the rats they kill the shield wall be move and expire at time. and some of the nullsec will be unable to do so because some people out there in the nullsec don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in the Drone Lands and the Detorid everywhere like such as Delve, and, I believe that they should learn to make accomodate the change, or take our education by the PvP and lose bubble and some ships in case they still find a rat. this should help the hunter, should help minimize the afk empire and should help the Stabber and the Interdiction, so we will be able to build up our future killboards for our clone children who do not hide behind shield bubble and hide behind intel. This is a change for better and we hope to make more kills but one maybe change like as been said before in the thread is make the time shorter to one day of more maybe 48 hours which is two days at all said give or take a few hours. that is all really I am happy for this change mainly for my boys future killboard Wow that was a little difficult to read lol, but right on point, if I read it right :P I agree, adaption will need to take place, but more content will be created I think, so that's a huge plus.
Eris Kallisti WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:50:58 - [156] - Quote Everything sounds great except the killmails for bubbles. How is cluttering the killboards with T1 small bubbles going to help anything? You might as well write a killmail every time I launch a bomb.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:53:59 - [157] - Quote DS9 wrote: Ad 1. Yeah but the idea is that no high reward task should be risk free. Ratting in null is very lucrative and therefore needs to be associated with some risk. Therefore escaping, losing a ship or killing the attacker is a part of ratting (or actually any other eve activity) in nullsec, lowsec or even hisec. The greater the reward, the greater should be the risk. This is a wonderful idea. Let's apply it to: 1) Suicide ganking. Risk : none. Reward: Bounties, Loot, Salvage. Risk/Reward = 0/GêP paradox. 2) Low/null ganking. Risk : insured ship (none). Reward: Bounties, Loot, sometimes Salvage. Risk/Reward = 0/GêP paradox. 3) FW farming. Risk: bomber, stabbed plex ship, w/e. Reward: More than ratting. 4) WH with crit connections farming. Risk : none (nobody can bring enough firepower). Reward: stupid high. ...the list goes on... "The greater the reward, the greater should be the risk." - there should be either no exceptions or no such rule. DS9 wrote: Ad 3. Well to me it looks like the previous topic was for the discussion, this one is to comment on the coming changes. I would agree that 2 day decay on the best bubble is too low, but it's 2 weeks for the best one and 2 days on the one that costs 720k ISK in crafting mats/minerals. Medium t1 is 2,5 mil ISK. Large t1 is 9,2m ISK. That's almost nothing. T2 is also fairly cheap: small - 3m, medium - 8m and large 18m in mats + the related invention costs. For 1 week of protection. The best one (syndicate large) is also fairly cheap as it cost 8,8m in mats + 30 mil and 45k lp to the bp --- for the 2 week long warp bubble. And even less ISK and lp for medium or small one. I think it should be 12 hours for t1, 24 hours for t2 and 48 hours for syndicate since they are so cheap to craft. And if you pick them up yourself they reset the timers. You can earn enough ISK to place 20-30 bubbles in a couple of hours of ratting/mining with 1 account. Mining with rorq is more than 200m ISK an hour per account, ratting in the cheap VNI is 70m an hour per account. Moreover, you can redeploy those bubbles every now and then. 1 week max. 2 weeks bubbles are basically inaccessible, and their cost with killmails would be a ****** magnet, so they cannot be used. That's "almost nothing" for 2 days. Now since you're going to lose all your bubbles every 2 days, multiply 25 large bubbles (that is after downsizing it to "adapt to new changes", minimal for 1 constellation) by 15 to get a monthly cost and add 1 hour/day (2 hours every 2 days) of not making ISK to place them. Also plex to do it in neutral alt, otherwise the intel cost would reach stupid values. How much are we at? 1 bil per month plex, plus 250 million 25 large bubbles every 2 days (it only takes one camper to not let you bring your ship to redeploy them) - overall cost of 4.75 billion ISK per month, after downsizing your bubble network. With your proposal of 24 hours, the cost is at 8.5 billion ISK per month. Clearly you cannot into math.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 14:58:53 - [158] - Quote Eris Kallisti wrote: Everything sounds great except the killmails for bubbles. How is cluttering the killboards with T1 small bubbles going to help anything? You might as well write a killmail every time I launch a bomb. I think it's really to just raise awareness of them and make players be more accountable for them. Instead of just set it and forget it, there will be a negative impact on them or their corporation for doing so. It's more of a negative thing for stat whores, but I can see it as not being negative.
Mai Khumm 172.0.0.1 865	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:00:47 - [159] - Quote Quote: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles It should be... - 12 hours for all T1 bubbles - 24 hours for all T2 bubbles - 48 hours for all Faction As it stands right now, the amount of ISK per hour against the cost of replacing bubbles is way off! Especially when you can just scoop them and put them down again to reset the timers...and hell, this IS Nullsec we're talking about here! They'll have bots running around replacing those! Change the HP so it's lowered with a reinforcement timer, but the bubble is off during said reinforcement timer. Make the bubbles follow structure anchoring ranges too!
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:02:01 - [160] - Quote [/quote] 1 week max. 2 weeks bubbles are basically inaccessible, and their cost with killmails would be a ****** magnet, so they cannot be used. That's "almost nothing" for 2 days. Now since you're going to lose all your bubbles every 2 days, multiply 25 large bubbles (that is after downsizing it to "adapt to new changes", minimal for 1 constellation) by 15 to get a monthly cost and add 1 hour/day (2 hours every 2 days) of not making ISK to place them. Also plex to do it in neutral alt, otherwise the intel cost would reach stupid values. How much are we at? 1 bil per month plex, plus 250 million 25 large bubbles every 2 days (it only takes one camper to not let you bring your ship to redeploy them) - overall cost of 4.75 billion ISK per month, after downsizing your bubble network. With your proposal of 24 hours, the cost is at 8.5 billion ISK per month. Clearly you cannot into math. [/quote] I don't think it's fair to say that the entire cost of a PLEX is calculated into this. If all you have that alt for is this, then you're doing eve wrong. Also, unless those bubbles get popped, all you have to do is maintain them. I think I read earlier, you can scoop them, then redeploy them? I think it's all about cleaning space up a bit, making people pay more attention to the bubbles they are placing and it adds more content.

James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:03:44 - [161] - Quote Mai Khumm wrote: Quote: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles It should be... - 12 hours for all T1 bubbles - 24 hours for all T2 bubbles - 48 hours for all Faction As it stands right now, the amount of ISK per hour against the cost of replacing bubbles is way off! Especially when you can just scoop them and put them down again to reset the timers...and hell, this IS Nullsec we're talking about here! They'll have bots running around replacing those! Change the HP so it's lowered with a reinforcement timer, but the bubble is off during said reinforcement timer. Make the bubbles follow structure anchoring ranges too! There you go, reinforcement timer might not be a bad idea. I do agree though, they'll have bots for that lol. Should just start saying "they have a bot for that." for everything.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2656	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:04:26 - [162] - Quote Agreed that the bubble lifetime is far too high. Reduce significantly. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Cable Uta V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA 6	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:04:45 - [163] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: 4) WH with crit connections farming. Risk : none (nobody can bring enough firepower). Reward: stupid high. ...the list goes on... "The greater the reward, the greater should be the risk." - there should be either no exceptions or no such rule. Cause there is totally 0 risk of a group like say HK or the old BU or other WH entities rolling into you and raping the **** out of you, OR actually getting a fight! And its totally op isk in WH space, oh wait didn't CCP nerf that recently? Last id like for you to continue the list that "goes on". There is risk with all types of ratting but the risk need to be proportionate with the income it generates, and currently Nullsec is scewed towards high isk & practicly 0 risk. This change is a good please don't back down ccp <3
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:06:17 - [164] - Quote James Zealot wrote: I don't think it's fair to say that the entire cost of a PLEX is calculated into this. If all you have that alt for is this, then you're doing eve wrong. Also, unless those bubbles get popped, all you have to do is maintain them. I think I read earlier, you can scoop them, then redeploy them? I think it's all about cleaning space up a bit, making people pay more attention to the bubbles they are placing and it adds more content. It's still a grand figure closing on 11 digits even without plex. For ONE constellation. It takes one bubble camping nolifer and you cannot maintain them anymore. If you miss a timer you have to put every 2 days, they are lost. I'm ok with paying attention to my bubbles, but this amount of attention is more than any other structure in eve currently requires. Timers need to be an order of magnitude longer at least.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2656	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:07:41 - [165] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: James Zealot wrote: I don't think it's fair to say that the entire cost of a PLEX is calculated into this. If all you have that alt for is this, then you're doing eve wrong. Also, unless those bubbles get popped, all you have to do is maintain them. I think I read earlier, you can scoop them, then redeploy them? I think it's all about cleaning space up a bit, making people pay more attention to the bubbles they are placing and it adds more content. It's still a grand figure closing on 11 digits even without plex. For ONE constellation. It takes one bubble camping nolifer and you cannot maintain them anymore. If you miss a timer you have to put every 2 days, they are lost. I'm ok with paying attention to my bubbles, but this amount of attention is more than any other structure in eve currently requires. Timers need to be an order of magnitude longer at least. Shoot the "bubble camping no-lifer." Or don't use bubbles if they're too much work. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 3057	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:07:57 - [166] - Quote This is only marginally relevant, but I just have to address this: Orca Platypus wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Your ratting ship/s have to dock up because they can't kill a curious thrasher? In current game balance, no, pvp fits have tremendously overwhelming advantage. Check capqu's ganking videos how he kills multiple pve tengus with his Thrasher, and they aren't even shitfit, it's just balance is that bad. If a PvE Tengu gets killed by a lone PvP Thrasher, then it is pretty much shitfit by definition. ProTip: do PvE content in PvP-fit ships whenever possible. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures I predicted FAUXs
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 36	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:09:20 - [167] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: James Zealot wrote: I don't think it's fair to say that the entire cost of a PLEX is calculated into this. If all you have that alt for is this, then you're doing eve wrong. Also, unless those bubbles get popped, all you have to do is maintain them. I think I read earlier, you can scoop them, then redeploy them? I think it's all about cleaning space up a bit, making people pay more attention to the bubbles they are placing and it adds more content. It's still a grand figure closing on 11 digits even without plex. For ONE constellation. It takes one bubble camping nolifer and you cannot maintain them anymore. If you miss a timer you have to put every 2 days, they are lost. I'm ok with paying attention to my bubbles, but this amount of attention is more than any other structure in eve currently requires. Timers need to be an order of magnitude longer at least. I can agree with that. I think that's a reason they are starting out with the time frames they are. Things just like that. So we'll have to see what the outcome is after they put this into play. I don't think anyone has the answer right now. Just have to do the trial and error. I think CCP is approaching this correctly.
Trajan Unknown SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 107	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:11:51 - [168] - Quote Less decay time please is the first thing was the first reaction followed by a sceptical view when I read about the "conservative decay times." Seems the carebears in zero-zero were rustled hard and put much lobby work into higher decay times.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:14:51 - [169] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: If a PvE Tengu gets killed by a lone PvP Thrasher, then it is pretty much shitfit by definition. Or ** game balance. Which is the case for eve. Bronson Hughes wrote:** ProTip: do PvE content in PvP-fit ships whenever possible. Last time I dared the moron who said it to provide a fitting capable of such clearly impossible deed, I received a phoon fit with application bad enough to miss broadside of a titan(some exaggeration here), tank and dps of an alpha clone fit cruiser (no exaggeration here), and the only "pvp" aspect to it was its ability to jam the ganker with modules and drones, and escape. Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting".
DS9 Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:15:33 - [170] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: This is a wonderful idea. Let's apply it to: 1) Suicide ganking. Risk : none. Reward: Bounties, Loot, Salvage. Risk/Reward = 0/GêP paradox. 2) Low/null ganking. Risk : insured ship (none). Reward: Bounties, Loot, sometimes Salvage. Risk/Reward = 0/GêP paradox. 3) FW farming. Risk: bomber, stabbed plex ship, w/e. Reward: More than ratting. 4) WH with crit connections farming. Risk : none (nobody can bring enough firepower). Reward: stupid high. ...the list goes on... "The greater the reward, the greater should be the risk." - there should be either no exceptions or no such rule. Agree, all really rewarding activities should be risky and demand the player to be active, and I think CCP is constantly making changes in that direction. Step by step. I also think you don't really understand the isk/hour and risk associated with those 4 activities that you mentioned. Orca Platypus wrote: 1 week max. 2 weeks bubbles are basically inaccessible, and their cost with killmails would be a ****** magnet, so they cannot be used. That's "almost nothing" for 2 days. Now since you're going to lose all your bubbles every 2 days, multiply 25 large bubbles (that is after downsizing it to "adapt to new changes", minimal for 1 constellation) by 15 to get a monthly cost and add 1 hour/day (2 hours every 2 days) of not making ISK to place them. Also plex to do it in neutral alt, otherwise the intel cost would reach stupid values. How much are we at? 1 bil per month plex, plus 250 million 25 large bubbles every 2 days (it only takes one camper to not let you bring your ship to redeploy them) - overall cost of 4.75 billion ISK per month, after downsizing your bubble network. With your proposal of 24 hours, the cost is at 8.5 billion ISK per month. Clearly you cannot into math. You don't really need a neutral alt. I'd be suprised if 20% of the bubbles in a constellation are destroyed every 2 days, and the remaining 20 ones can be picked up and redeployed. It takes the same time as placing new ones. So you don't need to buy them all over again. But even assuming your math is correct it's 8,5 bil a month for a constellation. So 30 players? That's 283 mil per player, per month. That's really a lot... And with the real numbers it's more like 20 mil per player per month.

Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 337	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:21:07 - [171] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: 1 week max. 2 weeks bubbles are basically inaccessible, and their cost with killmails would be a ****** magnet, so they cannot be used. That's "almost nothing" for 2 days. Now since you're going to lose all your bubbles every 2 days, multiply 25 large bubbles (that is after downsizing it to "adapt to new changes", minimal for 1 constellation) by 15 to get a monthly cost and add 1 hour/day (2 hours every 2 days) of not making ISK to place them. Also plex to do it in neutral alt, otherwise the intel cost would reach stupid values. How much are we at? 1 bil per month plex, plus 250 million 25 large bubbles every 2 days (it only takes one camper to not let you bring your ship to redeploy them) - overall cost of 4.75 billion ISK per month, after downsizing your bubble network. With your proposal of 24 hours, the cost is at 8.5 billion ISK per month. Clearly you cannot into math. I guess the workaround to this would be to not put 10s of bubbles all over the place and maybe just leave a couple on gates in the system you are actually ratting in? But I guess that would be a crazy suggestion. Did you know you can sit aligned in your carrier to a station, and then hit warp when a scary person appears in local? Nothing changes with or without bubbles there. Either way you can still warp off grid long before someone will be on top of you from a gate unless you are afk/bad. Didn't you mention you are just 1 guy with one system earlier in this thread, how on earth can you justify that many bubbles? Re: PvEing in PvP ships. There are pros and cons of this. If you do it you'll be slower at completing sites, but safer if you get attacked. Compare to using dedicated PvE ships, you are vulnerable to players but good at the PvE. It's an entirely intentional compromise. Don't complain that your PvE ship can't PvP and vice versa.
DS9 Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:23:13 - [172] - Quote Guys, looking at this topic, I have a strange feeling that Orca Platypus is just some prankster trolling all of us. Cause no one can be this clueless.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:29:55 - [173] - Quote DS9 wrote: Agree, all really rewarding activities should be risky and demand the player to be active, and I think CCP is constantly making changes in that direction. Step by step. I also think you don't really understand the isk/hour and risk associated with those 4 activities that you mentioned. Disagree that CCP is going right direction with it, they just nerf the profitability out of everything so risk is reduced by nobody bothering to do it. Also I took the lower bound of those activities so it's even more skewed. DS9 wrote: You don't really need a neutral alt. And if you have that alt you just extract sp from it and make 1,5b a month, buy a plex and keep the rest. I used to wonder how people could suck at math that badly. Now I know it's just because people are lazy and stupid. SP farms went under profit line a few months ago. Remember, extractors are not free, and the difference between injectors and extractors no longer covers PLEX price. DS9 wrote: I'd be suprised if 20% of the bubbles in a constellation are destroyed every 2 days, and the remaining 20 ones can be picked up and redeployed. It takes the same time as placing new ones. So you don't need to buy them all over again. They will get a visible timer, so they will get camped and stolen a lot. Or just shot for no risk kb padding. DS9 wrote: But even assuming your numbers and math are correct, then it's 8,5 bil a month for a constellation. So 30 players? That's 283 mil per player, per month. That's really a lot... And with the real numbers it's more like 20 mil per player per month. Translating it into manhours, it's close to 100 every month to cover the cost and 60 to place/redeploy. if you think demanding 160 manhours per constellation is OK, I must question your social status.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:38:23 - [174] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: I guess the workaround to this would be to not put 10s of bubbles all over the place and maybe just leave a couple on gates in the system you are actually ratting in? But I guess that would be a crazy suggestion. 25 large bubbles is ONE large bubble on each side of each gate in constellation, plus a few on special locations. Learn2count before going crazy suggestions maybe? Mr Floydy wrote: Did you know you can sit aligned in your carrier to a station, and then hit warp when a scary person appears in local? Nothing changes with or without bubbles there. Either way you can still warp off grid long before someone will be on top of you from a gate unless you are afk/bad. In this scenario, bubble is the difference between life and sabre-on-station certain death. I guess you're an idiot if you warp carrier to station, and not to POS. Mr Floydy wrote: Didn't you mention you are just 1 guy with one system earlier in this thread, how on earth can you justify that many bubbles? It's just my imagination, or the only ones pushing for less timer are only people with Reading Comprehension and Counting to Five skillbooks not even injected? See learn2count point above. Mr Floydy wrote: Re: PvEing in PvP ships. There are pros and cons of this. If you do it you'll be slower at completing sites, but safer if you get attacked. Compare to using dedicated PvE ships, you are vulnerable to players but good at the PvE. It's an entirely intentional compromise. Don't complain that your PvE ship can't PvP and vice versa. There are no pros. Ratting in pvp ship is either completely impossible (you're killed by rats since you are buffer or capbooster tanked), or not ratting at all (for 6 mil ISK ticks you're making more doing literally anything else).
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 337	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:44:43 - [175] - Quote You think people are going to regularly camp around watching a timer to steal/kill a bubble worth a couple of million isk instead of looking for people to shoot? I guess it is possible but it'll be a minority of people doing that. Personally I'd much rather come and shoot your spaceship :) Re-read my post btw. You'll see I'm suggesting using a couple of bubbles in just one system rather than the entire constellation. You might save some precious isk. If you warp when someone appears in local, you will land where you want to land - a Sabre isn't going to do anything... Nothing wrong with warping a carrier to a station you can dock up if you want to be safe, POS works fine too if you have one to hand. You're so bad it's hilarious. I look forward to your next post :)
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:52:44 - [176] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: You think people are going to regularly camp around watching a timer to steal/kill a bubble worth a couple of million isk instead of looking for people to shoot? I guess it is possible but it'll be a minority of people doing that. Personally I'd much rather come and shoot your spaceship :) It's a fact people do that. I saw people stick around for mobile depots reinforce timer hoping to get those couple million ISK inside it (with a chance it all blows up and nothing drops), there is nothing suggesting they won't wait for a guaranteed bubble steal. And oh, roamers run like scared chicken from everything resembling a pvp fleet. Admit you're roaming for easy kills only, you would gladly kill someone's afk pod worth 10k ISK, so clearly people who do that would stick around to kill/steal a single large bubble worth 10 million ISK. Mr Floydy wrote: Re-read my post btw. You'll see I'm suggesting using a couple of bubbles in just one system rather than the entire constellation. You might save some precious isk. Only works for entities that fit into one system. Not my case. Mr Floydy wrote: If you warp when someone appears in local, you will land where you want to land - a Sabre isn't going to do anything... Nothing wrong with warping a carrier to a station you can dock up if you want to be safe, POS works fine too if you have one to hand. Carriers do not land in dockable range unless you have an insta-dock bookmark. If you don't have one or missed and actually warped to station, you're bubbled, bumped, and dead. I see how spreading this nonsense works in your favor, but no thanks. Mr Floydy wrote: You're so bad it's hilarious. I look forward to your next post :) If the only thing idiots can do to your post is to call names on you, you are right. Thanks for confirming.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 337	Posted - 2017.02.22 15:57:53 - [177] - Quote Plenty of roamers engage organised fleets, if they are in suitable ships to pick off targets and split things up. You weren't expecting a group of a few people in a skirmish fleets to stick around to fight a big ball of T3s with 5+ logi ships were you? It's already clear you like things being hugely stacked in your favour before you undock. if you are part of an entity that needs to have multiple systems locked down an secure, why aren't you sharing the load of securing it? You're just creating yourself work to make a point when if you are in an alliance/corp that controls a constellation you should have more than enough players to share this task out between them.... As for carriers? Make yourself a insta dock bookmark then? You are entirely missing that point, you can warp out from your site before you are tackled if aligned. Bubbles make no difference to this. You could also jump to a cyno... Stop putting all your faith in bubbles, they're not going to help you when a wormhole corp rolls into you.
Cade Windstalker 869	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:10:00 - [178] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Querns wrote: Couple of questions. 1) If a bubble's lifetime expires, does it generate a killmail? I'm pretty sure it won't, due to the method of destruction used by the decay system. Can you make it such that bubbles won't decay if they currently have a combat timer or something equivalent? I know it's a bit of a niche case but it would kinda suck to be clearing a Faction bubble and have it pop halfway through hull from time and not get a kill mail for all that expended ammo/cap/time/F1 presses.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 3058	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:14:17 - [179] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures I predicted FAUXs
Mai Khumm 172.0.0.1 865	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:14:58 - [180] - Quote James Zealot wrote: Mai Khumm wrote: Quote: Two days for all T1 bubbles One week for all T2 bubbles Two weeks for all Syndicate bubbles It should be... - 12 hours for all T1 bubbles - 24 hours for all T2 bubbles - 48 hours for all Faction As it stands right now, the amount of ISK per hour against the cost of replacing bubbles is way off! Especially when you can just scoop them and put them down again to reset the timers...and hell, this IS Nullsec we're talking about here! They'll have bots running around replacing those! Change the HP so it's lowered with a reinforcement timer, but the bubble is off during said reinforcement timer. Make the bubbles follow structure anchoring ranges too! There you go, reinforcement timer might not be a bad idea. I do agree though, they'll have bots for that lol. Should just start saying "they have a bot for that." for everything. From my time in Nullsec, yeah, botters everywhere to do boring mundane things. Usually (large) Nullsec Groups have certain systems "restricted" from normal members, with rules in place where if you enter said system you get blacklisted. It's very easy to see what systems they are!

Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:16:10 - [181] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Plenty of roamers engage organised fleets, if they are in suitable ships to pick off targets and split things up. You weren't expecting a group of a few people in a skirmish fleets to stick around to fight a big ball of T3s with 5+ logi ships were you? It's already clear you like things being hugely stacked in your favour before you undock. It's not me, it's you who like the odds. It's just one T3 on undock and you are already scared imagining the latter. Mr Floydy wrote: if you are part of an entity that needs to have multiple systems locked down an secure, why aren't you sharing the load of securing it? You're just creating yourself work to make a point when if you are in an alliance/corp that controls a constellation you should have more than enough players to share this task out between them.... Sharing the task does not decrease the total manhours and total cost. It even increases it slightly due to diminishing returns. Mr Floydy wrote: As for carriers? Make yourself a insta dock bookmark then? You are entirely missing that point, you can warp out from your site before you are tackled if aligned. Bubbles make no difference to this. You could also jump to a cyno... Stop putting all your faith in bubbles, they're not going to help you when a wormhole corp rolls into you. Bubbles make a huge difference, they stall Sabre for extra 4 seconds you need to realize it's not one of yours, take control from fighters back to your carrier, find the required bookmark in right click menu and click it. They also delay the following fleet, making sure you have time to form, only the most extremely organized groups can form in under 5 minutes, and roamers are chickens and probably won't stick if there are more enemies than half their fleet size, so you need to ping for reinforcements to log in also. Overall this is extremely risk-free for roamers and bubbles are essential part of making this manageable. And if you have rorquals, you better have bubbles at least 5 jumps out, or they're dead, fuk CCP.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:19:35 - [182] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Having low tick rates for hour is beaten by having proper tick for 20 minutes and spinning ship for the rest of the hour. PvE T3 has no chance against Thrasher. PvP T3 has no chance against rats. Pick your poison.
Dayala Gabriele Stargazer Bration 0	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:31:23 - [183] - Quote How about adding a fuel bay instead, that way people would still have to do something active.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2656	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:32:54 - [184] - Quote it is sort of surreal seeing all the completely plebian ratting arrangements being thrown out as typical or even desirable itt This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2656	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:34:19 - [185] - Quote like T3Cs for nullsec ratting, are you high This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Jacques Arkaral Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:48:10 - [186] - Quote Not really seeing a problem with bubbles as is. Perceived protection, well that's about exactly what they are, perceived not real. They create resistance to passage and that's about it. Bubbles are easily overcome by the following - Interdiction Nullification - Micro Jump Drive - Micro Jump Field - Pops your whole subcap fleet out - Cynosaural Fields for BLops, Capital and Titan Pushed fleets - Cyno Beacons for friendly transit. Worm holes still open behind/away from the pre-placed mass bubble fields allowing clear access to the entire system. zKill is replete with Mining fleet losses behind these bubble walls due to capable PvP players. I understand that a long time ago Anomaly belts were previously cosmic sigs that had to be scanned down. Enough complaining ensued that they were converted to Anomalies which made hunting miners easier. It is now very little effort for them to just warp to the Ice Belt or biggest anom belt. This bubble change seems like more of the same. CCP, I see the attraction to doing this. It is in line with the current goal to create a fully destructible environment. PvP players love it as it will reduce their effort and risk while increasing their reward at the expense of PvE players. Please consider some actual play balance in this change. Simply nerfing the bubbles increases imbalance. Here are some play balance considerations - - Cloaking - Eliminate all movement penalties to cloaking and replace with a duration timer of 10 minutes same as cyno with a cool down of 5 minutes reduced by skill or require fuel. - - Bring back Cosmic Sig Belts. [Seriously, how hard is it to scan a Rorqual down? BTW its self pointed for 5 minutes at a time] - - More damage inflicted by asteroid environment like we have with Mercoxit mining. Examples: * Collision damage from asteroids [Would require a change to individual asteroid warp in for all, maybe 100m offset] * Dust clouds that inflict damage at speed i.e. move faster than 100ms you suffer damage with exception to warping - - Allow tractor beams to tractor ships without affecting warp [Factor in Mass to determine what pulls what] I really think many miners would like a standup fight vs being blobbed on by someones big stick fleet with ridiculously lopsided combat advantages.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3807	Posted - 2017.02.22 16:50:04 - [187] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Good start, though I'd like to see all bubbles die in 24 hours or less. Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. so you can rat in near complete safety just by having the system cyno jammed? no thanks unless you are going to add nullification to another ship that can fit cov ops cyno. not to mention how important nullified t3s are for WH BLOPS Hauler
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 341	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:24:08 - [188] - Quote Make them use ozone!
Ruby Gnollo 15	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:34:50 - [189] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Balancing between the needs of different types of players is always a tightrope and all I can say is that we'll continue to work hard trying to thread that needle. If we're talking abt rebalancing don't hide behind an so obviously-biased CSM or whatever noisy Reddit herd of the day. If CCP wants to do this, there is no need to pretend it's a request from the playerbase or whatever. This is YOUR game we are your customers, not your friends. Do you want to make of Eve a game where so-called elite plexed cool players farm casual paying customers ? You wish to penalize preparation and planning at small teams level and help drunk roamers to find contents wherever the wormholes open in the rathole they love to hide into to avoid any consequencies ? Can't the so-called elite pvpers find targets by themselves amongst themselves and need lame ducks to shoot to go to sleep before getting sober ? This is perfectly fine : just don't forget that what makes Eve unique is the so-called "elite" gameplay. Otherwise said, casual players can easily find other games to play. On the long run, concentrating in one game the nerdiest playerbase is good for everybody. But, hey, CCP : this is your choice : choose your customers & choose wisely.
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 421	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:35:45 - [190] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Having low tick rates for hour is beaten by having proper tick for 20 minutes and spinning ship for the rest of the hour. PvE T3 has no chance against Thrasher. PvP T3 has no chance against rats. Pick your poison. If you gave up PvE and focused on PvP, you might make more isk Then you could afford more bubbles

Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 104	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:46:58 - [191] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Having low tick rates for hour is beaten by having proper tick for 20 minutes and spinning ship for the rest of the hour. PvE T3 has no chance against Thrasher. PvP T3 has no chance against rats. Pick your poison. If you gave up PvE and focused on PvP, you might make more isk Then you could afford more bubbles If you make more in PvP than in PvE, god, you suck at PvE so badly.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 3058	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:55:28 - [192] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: If you gave up PvE and focused on PvP, you might make more isk Then you could afford more bubbles If you make more in PvP than in PvE, god, you suck at PvE so badly. PvP is at the heart of all the most profitable enterprises in EvE. Why do you think untold fleets of ships have been sacrificed to Bob at the foot of countless POSes? Hint: It wasn't for the good fights. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures I predicted FAUXs
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 37	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:57:06 - [193] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Having low tick rates for hour is beaten by having proper tick for 20 minutes and spinning ship for the rest of the hour. PvE T3 has no chance against Thrasher. PvP T3 has no chance against rats. Pick your poison. If you gave up PvE and focused on PvP, you might make more isk Then you could afford more bubbles If you make more in PvP than in PvE, god, you suck at PvE so badly. You're telling me you can log on, make like 10B or more in a night? You do the right kind of PvP or piracy lol, and you can make WAY more.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 339	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:57:29 - [194] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: And if you have rorquals, you better have bubbles at least 5 jumps out, or they're dead, fuk CCP. I know a fair few people who quite like using rorquals and getting tackled in them. With the panic mode they're a great content driver - they get tackled, call for support. Support comes in and kills/scares off attacker. Rorq carries on mining in happiness than the PvP guys in alliance love them :) Sounds like your alliance has the wrong mentality tbh.
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 37	Posted - 2017.02.22 17:58:55 - [195] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: Balancing between the needs of different types of players is always a tightrope and all I can say is that we'll continue to work hard trying to thread that needle. If we're talking abt rebalancing don't hide behind an so obviously-biased CSM or whatever noisy Reddit herd of the day. If CCP wants to do this, there is no need to pretend it's a request from the playerbase or whatever. This is YOUR game we are your customers, not your friends. Do you want to make of Eve a game where so-called elite plexed cool players farm casual paying customers ? You wish to penalize preparation and planning at small teams level and help drunk roamers to find contents wherever the wormholes open in the rathole they love to hide into to avoid any consequencies ? Can't the so-called elite pvpers find targets by themselves amongst themselves and need lame ducks to shoot to go to sleep before getting sober ? This is perfectly fine : just don't forget that what makes Eve unique is the so-called "elite" gameplay. Otherwise said, casual players can easily find other games to play. On the long run, concentrating in one game the nerdiest playerbase is good for everybody. But, hey, CCP : this is your choice : choose your customers & choose wisely. Someone get this guy a bucket for all those tears! I think you're mixing CCP up with parents and the players as children.
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 421	Posted - 2017.02.22 18:16:08 - [196] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Kenneth Feld wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Bronson Hughes wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Either you never ratted yourself, or think that 6 million ticks the aforementioned abomination produced is "still ratting". Low tick rates are better than the zero tick rates you get when you dock up your T3 in fear of a Thrasher, or paying to replace a high-tick T3 because you shitfit it. Your call. Having low tick rates for hour is beaten by having proper tick for 20 minutes and spinning ship for the rest of the hour. PvE T3 has no chance against Thrasher. PvP T3 has no chance against rats. Pick your poison. If you gave up PvE and focused on PvP, you might make more isk Then you could afford more bubbles If you make more in PvP than in PvE, god, you suck at PvE so badly. Literally 45 seconds of work https://zkillboard.com/kill/49662844/
James Zealot ALEHEADS Apocalypse Now. 38	Posted - 2017.02.22 18:20:33 - [197] - Quote Literally 45 seconds of work https://zkillboard.com/kill/49662844/ To be fair, you'd have to split that 37 times :P Still can't get that for 45 seconds of work in PvE :P
Broken December Corescape Inc. Blades of Grass 2	Posted - 2017.02.22 18:35:02 - [198] - Quote I like it !!!!
Ruby Gnollo 15	Posted - 2017.02.22 18:46:05 - [199] - Quote James Zealot wrote: Someone get this guy a bucket for all those tears! I think you're mixing CCP up with parents and the players as children. Maybe the most overused personal attack of all Eve. Do you have another trick to show the public or should we please stick to the subject and maybe even arguments ?
zyalino Stardust Heavy Industries ChaosTheory. 14	Posted - 2017.02.22 19:48:14 - [200] - Quote because i too don't know how this change will work out once it's deployed, i want to suggest that a longer lifetime, combined with a higher price and lesser hp might lead to the same vision of a bubblefree nullsec; though it might encourage more players to activly "hunt" bubbles. nullification, btw, should not be removed, but a new (let's say t3) bubble type, and or dictor probe, should be introduced that targets nullified ships but not normal ones. whatever

Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 423	Posted - 2017.02.22 20:56:34 - [201] - Quote James Zealot wrote: Literally 45 seconds of work https://zkillboard.com/kill/49662844/ To be fair, you'd have to split that 37 times :P Still can't get that for 45 seconds of work in PvE :P Nah, I supplied all the ships and ran the operation, I gave out some door prizes along the way
Chani K'ynes Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.02.22 21:48:45 - [202] - Quote A couple of ideas Has CCP considered adding a decay system based on the number of bubbles in system in system. So in an intense battle a system can be bubbled to crap without issue. But random systems with a 100 km of bubbles after the gate will be hard to maintain. (lore reason em interference requires more power to run the bubble blah blah). The mechanic where you drop out of warp because a bubble existed when that warp was initiated is totally understandable from a computing point of view, but is a mechanic CCP wants to maintain ? whilst changes are been made, is it time for bubbles that can pull people out of warp at any point in the warp? It would make for some interesting traps it could be a boon for solo pvp. Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly. Oh crap! the fly is a vindicator warp warp
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2873	Posted - 2017.02.22 22:30:12 - [203] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. Oh the amount of playstyles you have to be ignorant of to even suggest this makes me lol PS: Lots of us dont care about how frustrating nullified combat ships might have been for nullblob people. Two things this game definitely absolutely needs to keep having are nullified covert cyno ships and nullified probers. Pro tip: Defending your playstyle is expected, defending a broken mechanic because it makes your life easier though, nobody honestly gives a **** about you needing or wanting nullified cynos or probers. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tabyll Altol Vision Inc Hole Control 183	Posted - 2017.02.22 22:43:02 - [204] - Quote Good approach but why so long. I would rather make it 12/24/48 h.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1604	Posted - 2017.02.22 23:03:45 - [205] - Quote Jacques Arkaral wrote: Lets trade Bubble timers get implemented per design of this thread. Cloaking devices require fuel or they get Activation Time/Duration timers and Reactivation Delays. Cloaks already have reactivation delays. AFAIK, it's 30 seconds for all of them. Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 30	Posted - 2017.02.22 23:11:52 - [206] - Quote I could kiss someone for the changes coming. Make the timers half as long as they are now and it'd be french. I also agree with Chani K'ynes, having bubbles break warp at any point in the path would be exceptionally useful for solo players and small gangs in nullsec... if the timer was reduced to about 60 seconds "unattended". A Pilgrim and a bomber sitting on a bubble in a system... if you like the fight, the bomber decloaks for fast tackle, while the reconfig timer goes down on the recon. Lights out for the warping dude, which is totally his fault for warping gate-to-gate in null with neuts in system.
skull scar Ember Inc. Curatores Veritatis Alliance 21	Posted - 2017.02.22 23:33:22 - [207] - Quote SOOOOOOOO Much ** wtf!!!!!!!! You guys have not better to do???????????? All duds in Wormholes hate you ccp!!!! I hope many delet eve!!!!!!! so much ** updates -.- only good for the noobs and new players!!!
Cade Windstalker 873	Posted - 2017.02.23 00:46:27 - [208] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: I could kiss someone for the changes coming. Make the timers half as long as they are now and it'd be french. I also agree with Chani K'ynes, having bubbles break warp at any point in the path would be exceptionally useful for solo players and small gangs in nullsec... if the timer was reduced to about 60 seconds "unattended". A Pilgrim and a bomber sitting on a bubble in a system... if you like the fight, the bomber decloaks for fast tackle, while the reconfig timer goes down on the recon. Lights out for the warping dude, which is totally his fault for warping gate-to-gate in null with neuts in system. They literally just fixed this a few patches back because there's nothing to stop you from dropping someone out of warp directly on a Citadel. If you put this in it would take about a day to have a Citadel anchored up along a major route with a HIC (or something) set up in front of it ready to grab and kill anyone warping through.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 4	Posted - 2017.02.23 08:58:59 - [209] - Quote Woah that means Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money =) And tbh it is nice that CCP finally want to do something for economic! I think there is nothing worse that anchoring something small in space which is easly replaceble....and it's stay.... forever;
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 104	Posted - 2017.02.23 10:03:31 - [210] - Quote Naye Nathaniel wrote: Woah that means Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money =) And tbh it is nice that CCP finally want to do something for economic! I think there is nothing worse that anchoring something small in space which is easly replaceble....and it's stay.... forever; No, that means Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind Grind grind grind And tbh it sucks that CCP finally went down to introducing dumb grind. I think there is nothing worse than imposing a 4+ billion and 60 manhour cost on one constellation of people without batphones.

Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 4	Posted - 2017.02.23 10:19:36 - [211] - Quote I doubt ppl would drop a Syndicate bubble - especialy if they would be found on a killmail;
lilol' me Retribution Holdings Corp Retribution. 68	Posted - 2017.02.23 10:36:00 - [212] - Quote is this some kind of joke? i was hoping that bubbles would be gone. The length of time is ridiculous. Why do you tbink its OK just to anchor a bubble for 2 weeks! we should be talking hours maybe at max a day or so. bubbles are wrong thats why we have 2 ships dedicated to this if people want to camp etc then they should do it in person with interdictors! and dont get me started on drag bubbles. and since when did the csm discuss this with the community? oh never..... this aint even funny
devil666666 Suicidal Decisions 0	Posted - 2017.02.23 10:58:29 - [213] - Quote How can you do something, so slowly it becomes really no longer funny. Ask me who makes such suggestions. Do you want to destroy your EVE? Is getting worse and worse.
Naye Nathaniel COBRA INC 6	Posted - 2017.02.23 11:37:26 - [214] - Quote devil666666 wrote: How can you do something, so slowly it becomes really no longer funny. Ask me who makes such suggestions. Do you want to destroy your EVE? Is getting worse and worse. You are angry of the times, Of the whole idea, Of the bubble existing?
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 25	Posted - 2017.02.23 13:46:35 - [215] - Quote skull scar wrote: SOOOOOOOO Much crap wtf!!!!!!!! You guys have not better to do?? xD only good for the new players!!! ....... You mean only bad for care-bears ratting in dead end pockets.
Henry Plantgenet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 166	Posted - 2017.02.23 14:43:22 - [216] - Quote Does this mean i should be making syndicate bubbles with the old requirements and sell the new ones?
Jacques Arkaral Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:06:27 - [217] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Jacques Arkaral wrote: Lets trade Bubble timers get implemented per design of this thread. Cloaking devices require fuel or they get Activation Time/Duration timers and Reactivation Delays. Cloaks already have reactivation delays. AFAIK, it's 30 seconds for all of them. Great!Lets extend that by 4.5 minutes and call it done. Now for the rest please. Can we get an Activation/Duration timer or can we require fuel to run Cloaking Device no more than 30 minutes at a time? The point here is to allow Cloaky stealthy types to actively hunt within a reasonable time frame and expose Cloaky Campers to the real possibility of being found at some point in the day. Some don't want perpetual bubbles and some don't want perpetual cloaky campers. So, Lets Trade!
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 104	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:35:39 - [218] - Quote Jacques Arkaral wrote: Elenahina wrote: Jacques Arkaral wrote: Lets trade Bubble timers get implemented per design of this thread. Cloaking devices require fuel or they get Activation Time/Duration timers and Reactivation Delays. Cloaks already have reactivation delays. AFAIK, it's 30 seconds for all of them. Great!Lets extend that by 4.5 minutes and call it done. Now for the rest please. Can we get an Activation/Duration timer or can we require fuel to run Cloaking Device no more than 30 minutes at a time? The point here is to allow Cloaky stealthy types to actively hunt within a reasonable time frame and expose Cloaky Campers to the real possibility of being found at some point in the day. Some don't want perpetual bubbles and some don't want perpetual cloaky campers. So, Lets Trade! Does anyone still care about campers? Bubbles, on the other hand, are direly necessary, especially after nerfing foreman links below the ground.
Grookshank Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance 129	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:56:07 - [219] - Quote Will the timer also apply on already anchored bubbles once the pacth hits?
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 341	Posted - 2017.02.23 23:03:45 - [220] - Quote Jacques Arkaral wrote: Cloaky Campers Have you ever been killed by a cloaky camper? Has it ever interacted with you in a negative way? No ofcourse not. it's cloaked up and probably afk... sigh...

Nekora Neame Bl00draider Industries 0	Posted - 2017.02.23 23:09:07 - [221] - Quote the Rich get richer and the poorer get poorer, ( Again)
Davionia Vanshel Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 76	Posted - 2017.02.24 01:41:00 - [222] - Quote Most of the bubble complaints I have seen come from large nullsec blocks who allow their indy guys and ratters to defensively bubble their ratting and mining systems. They then "forget" to un-anchor them, which invariably leads to blue shooting bubbles, or some salty strat op FC complaining about their fleet being bubbled by their own alliance members off ratting etc. So with bubbles now generating killmails you get to see who (anchored it) to kick from Alliance right? In null, getting bubbled by an uncamped bubble means a bit of burning. The counter to an uncamped bubble on the gate is to shoot the bubble or MWD out. If the bubble is camped then it will be there timer or not. As far as drag or stop bubbles go: the counter is literally do anything less stupid than warping gate to gate in anything not nullified. Getting bubbled is the price of admission to nullsec. Jumps high to null and not get bubbled -> WTF? Eve must be dying. Gratz CCP on your attempted counter to stupidiy and laziness.
Jacques Arkaral Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.02.24 05:35:18 - [223] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Jacques Arkaral wrote: Cloaky Campers Have you ever been killed by a cloaky camper? Has it ever interacted with you in a negative way? No ofcourse not. it's cloaked up and probably afk... sigh... Funny you should ask. Goop Loop And Guplup Ikkla [Same Guy] Did manage to Hot drop us twice. After being in system for 2 weeks, we assumed he was AFK camping. Well, apparently he wasn't always away. We got dropped. Managed to slip him and his crew. The point is, yes, they are still an issue as he like many others get paid to do it.
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 41	Posted - 2017.02.24 07:17:15 - [224] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Good start, though I'd like to see all bubbles die in 24 hours or less. Now lets remove nullification from anything but an interceptor. And give it an equal skill tree to highest tier nullified ship in game. tia Also nice comments from CSM members, thank you for your valued opinions Bob and Steve mainly. Truly great posting.
yogizh GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 41	Posted - 2017.02.24 07:18:25 - [225] - Quote Disallow cyno on interceptors CCP and see how PL changes their rhetoric.
Max Khaos Dyslexics Are Teople POO 21	Posted - 2017.02.24 14:48:15 - [226] - Quote CSM (Goons( vote to change the jump range = range changed. CSM (Goons) want to change mobile bubbles = bubbles changed. As the CSM is elected by votes and entities like Goons force everyone to vote for their candidate this highlights why the CSM mechanics are broken and corrupt. Another pointless time wasting change while the major problems still stay unfixed. `_______________________________________________`
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 27	Posted - 2017.02.24 18:09:26 - [227] - Quote Max Khaos wrote: CSM (Goons( vote to change the jump range = range changed. CSM (Goons) want to change mobile bubbles = bubbles changed. As the CSM is elected by votes and entities like Goons force everyone to vote for their candidate this highlights why the CSM mechanics are broken and corrupt. Another pointless time wasting change while the major problems still stay unfixed. Give one good reason why mobile disrupors should have an unlimited life. Other than "I want to camp myself into dead end pockets so I can contribute nothing to the game and just rat all day" The CSM panel represents a huge % of the player base, CCP takes feedback then converses with the other members and if everyone is in agreement changes are made. CCP needs to keep the majority happy not the minority, this is a business they need people to pay to play, they do not work for free. They have a bottom line to focus on, they have families to feed. The comments about perma cloaky camping are valid, and I bet CCP has changes in mind that will come eventually, or soon TM.
Cade Windstalker 901	Posted - 2017.02.24 19:09:25 - [228] - Quote Yeah, anyone who thinks this bubble change was purely motivated by any large null block is just clueless. This sort of thing has been requested in every vaguely bubble related thread in the last two years at least, because the bubble spam in Null is ridiculous. I highly recommend going and reading the drag changes thread for a start... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=486438&find=unread
Max Khaos Dyslexics Are Teople POO 21	Posted - 2017.02.24 19:59:21 - [229] - Quote Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land. Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out. The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random. Currently CSM 11 has the following 4 x Pandemic Legion 3 x Goons We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern. `_______________________________________________`
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.24 20:41:48 - [230] - Quote Max Khaos wrote: Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land. Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out. The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random. Currently CSM 11 has the following 4 x Pandemic Legion 3 x Goons We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern. This. Minority show that doesn't represent 10% of eve, selected based on number of alts voting for them. At least make it one vote per pay system account, that way we have a chance for 1-2 non-minority-bloc members on it... to be ignored in favor of minority bloc yelling at CCP to push their agenda.

Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.24 20:50:31 - [231] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Yeah, anyone who thinks this bubble change was purely motivated by any large null block is just clueless. This sort of thing has been requested in every vaguely bubble related thread in the last two years at least, because the bubble spam in Null is ridiculous. I highly recommend going and reading the drag changes thread for a start... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=486438&find=unread Nobody here is against any bubble changes at all. But man, TWO DAYS?! Some mentally deficient see 2 weeks on syndicate bubbles which are useless and inaccessible to everyone except syndicate blobbers who pushed for this change, and yell bloody murder. Relax, those can't be used anyway. One week for T2 bubbles, but since they will be lost left and right and cannot be produced unless you're in a bloc that holds a regionfull of moons, they are irreplaceable and cannot be used also. If we're lucky and have all the needed moons, add their fuel cost to this equation and you don't want to see the result. Which leaves us with the only replaceable alternative which is... TWO ******* DAYS ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? This is not a solution to reported problems, this is just NO RATTING ALLOWED WITHOUT HAND ON BATPHONE thing. It's basically a murder. If you want bubbles, it's gonna be a huge cost per constellation, not to mention keeping a neutral alt to place them to avoid blowing up this cost even more in losses on free intel. Only a bloc bastard could even suggest such a thing. 20 days minimum, so you could at least pick a weekend for this giant chore. Any less is just not viable. No killmails or triple their tank, since it's too much free intel. And generally, this is not solving problems, this is creating them. Seek another solution.
Cade Windstalker 902	Posted - 2017.02.24 20:56:26 - [232] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: This. Minority show that doesn't represent 10% of eve, selected based on number of alts voting for them. At least make it one vote per pay system account, that way we have a chance for 1-2 non-minority-bloc members on it... to be ignored in favor of minority bloc yelling at CCP to push their agenda. First off, if you're PLEXing your accounts this wouldn't affect anything (and many many Null people do). Second, multiple credit cards are a thing, and most adults have them. Max Khaos wrote: Anyone who doesn't think big alliance are steering changes that benefit themselves and not the major player base is living in cloud cuckoo land. Any major alliance can almost guarantee a seat on the CSM after the "mandatory" vote for X alliance mail goes out. The CSM is broken and will always be until it is picked at random. Currently CSM 11 has the following 4 x Pandemic Legion 3 x Goons We all believe that's a good cross section of the eve community You only need to look back at past CSM's 10,9,8,7 etc and they all follow the same pattern. The idea of randomly selected CSMs is a joke. I'm all for more representation on the council but the reason we don't have it is because Null is organized, Null is full of people who are invested in and care about the game, and Null is full of people who are knowledgeable about the game. The big popular personalities tend to end up in Null. If High Sec could put forward a decent candidate or three and agree that they're good they could get all three in, but it just doesn't happen. If CSMs were randomly selected you'd end up with a bunch of angry guys who don't do any work and one or two over worked people who actually understand the game and try to work with CCP to make it better.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 28	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:04:17 - [233] - Quote Anything longer than 24 hours is rediculous.
Cade Windstalker 902	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:04:54 - [234] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Nobody here is against any bubble changes at all. But man, TWO DAYS?! Some mentally deficient see 2 weeks on syndicate bubbles which are useless and inaccessible to everyone except syndicate blobbers who pushed for this change, and yell bloody murder. Relax, those can't be used anyway. One week for T2 bubbles, but since they will be lost left and right and cannot be produced unless you're in a bloc that holds a regionfull of moons, they are irreplaceable and cannot be used also. If we're lucky and have all the needed moons, add their fuel cost to this equation and you don't want to see the result. Which leaves us with the only replaceable alternative which is... TWO ******* DAYS ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? This is not a solution to reported problems, this is just NO RATTING ALLOWED WITHOUT HAND ON BATPHONE thing. It's basically a murder. If you want bubbles, it's gonna be a huge cost per constellation, not to mention keeping a neutral alt to place them to avoid blowing up this cost even more in losses on free intel. Only a bloc bastard could even suggest such a thing. 20 days minimum, so you could at least pick a weekend for this giant chore. Any less is just not viable. No killmails or triple their tank, since it's too much free intel. And generally, this is not solving problems, this is creating them. Seek another solution. So, first off, the idea that T2 bubbles can't be used is laughable. They get used all the time, just mostly for the range. Currently the Smalls are 7m, the Mediums are 14m, and the Larges are about 32m. Want to avoid massive costs? Then simply take the bubbles down when you're done with them and they won't go anywhere. They only disappear if they're killed or if they expire, and the killing thing isn't that infrequent at present. Your whole whine here is more or less specific to your situation and apparent desire to bubble gates to the nth degree. You can cover a gate with a couple T2 large bubbles and maybe one small per significant celestial if you feel the need for drag bubbles, but that's hardly required for ratting safety. Oh and bubble KMs aren't free intel, they're the cost of the bubble, and if no one's around nothing forces you to kill the bubble in the first place. If someone is around you're outed anyway so you may as well pop the bubbles if you want.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:08:48 - [235] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: First off, if you're PLEXing your accounts this wouldn't affect anything (and many many Null people do). Second, multiple credit cards are a thing, and most adults have them. Fine. Most people still don't plex all their alts and don't pay subs from multiple cards (and have more alts than cards in most cases). it's a step towards broader representation and not null bloc minority of alt spammers. Cade Windstalker wrote: The idea of randomly selected CSMs is a joke. I'm all for more representation on the council but the reason we don't have it is because Null is organized, Null is full of people who are invested in and care about the game, and Null is full of people who are knowledgeable about the game. The big popular personalities tend to end up in Null. Hisec, even depopulated to 1/3 of what it was in 2012 before CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign started, is still more popular than nullsec. The problem is, it's mostly populated with people who do not want to deal with alliance fatcats and thus don't care as much. Cade Windstalker wrote: If High Sec could put forward a decent candidate or three and agree that they're good they could get all three in, but it just doesn't happen. Wrong. FW is also organized, can they put their candidate? No chance in hell. The only "hisec candidate" ever to make was vegetable and goon pet Mike, who did literally anything NERF HISEC group told him, mostly being a vegetable and worst CSM rep ever. Cade Windstalker wrote: If CSMs were randomly selected you'd end up with a bunch of angry guys who don't do any work and one or two over worked people who actually understand the game and try to work with CCP to make it better. Which would be one or two people BETTER than current full bloc minority CSM that doesn't represent 10% of eve.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:19:33 - [236] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: So, first off, the idea that T2 bubbles can't be used is laughable. They get used all the time, just mostly for the range. Currently the Smalls are 7m, the Mediums are 14m, and the Larges are about 32m. Cannot be produced = cannot be used, hence inaccessible. Unless you live on jita undock, which seems to be your case. Cade Windstalker wrote: Want to avoid massive costs? Then simply take the bubbles down when you're done with them and they won't go anywhere. They only disappear if they're killed or if they expire, and the killing thing isn't that infrequent at present. Killing would become abundant with killmails, both for safe kb padding and free intel. Just placing them is 60 manhours per month cost, taking them down adds another 60, now that's 120 manhours per month. At 100 mil per hour income of someone actively doing things in space, we're looking at 12 bil per month cost of managing bubbles, and that's just MANAGING them. Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you? And what exactly "done" means? "done" as "we're done living here, pack up and go to hisec"? Cade Windstalker wrote: Your whole whine here is more or less specific to your situation and apparent desire to bubble gates to the nth degree. You can cover a gate with a couple T2 large bubbles and maybe one small per significant celestial if you feel the need for drag bubbles, but that's hardly required for ratting safety. 60 manhours cost was calculated for ONE large bubble on each side of each gate of average constellation, plus few specials. Any more would blow the cost way into 10+ billion per month. At least 5 bubbled gates in every direction is required if you want to siege a rorqual without a hand on batphone, otherwise it dies with 99.9% chance. For ratting on carriers, 1-2 gates down is minimal requirement, otherwise you're getting caught for free, which is the purpose of this change and why everyone with a hand on batphone whines that their free targets are too safe. Cade Windstalker wrote: Oh and bubble KMs aren't free intel, they're the cost of the bubble, and if no one's around nothing forces you to kill the bubble in the first place. If someone is around you're outed anyway so you may as well pop the bubbles if you want. Bubble KMs are super free absolutely reliable intel. They are worth a PLEX to avoid. Killmail is way more than enough reason to kill bubbles. Now that they're part of elite pvp e-peen contest, they will be killed in thousands.
Cade Windstalker 903	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:44:08 - [237] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Fine. Most people still don't plex all their alts and don't pay subs from multiple cards (and have more alts than cards in most cases). it's a step towards broader representation and not null bloc minority of alt spammers. Hisec, even depopulated to 1/3 of what it was in 2012 before CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign started, is still more popular than nullsec. The problem is, it's mostly populated with people who do not want to deal with alliance fatcats and thus don't care as much. You clearly don't know much about Null, tons of people out there PLEX some or all of their accounts because it's fairly easy to do so, at least for those with more than 1-2 accounts. Also the vast majority of Eve players, including in Null, don't actually have that many alt accounts. It's mostly a few people who play Eve and nothing else and have for years with 12 accounts or whatever. The rest is just line members with one or two accounts at most. Also a lot of those High Sec accounts are, in fact, alts of Null players, though not necessarily on different accounts. This claim of some campaign to nerf High Sec is kinda laughable. No idea what changes provoked that, and I'm a player who spends a good chunk of his time in High Sec. I think you got that a bit backwards though, a lot of solo HS players don't care about game politics and changes as much and therefore don't go out to Null. If you're angry about "null fat cats" you pretty much, by definition, care more than the average player. Orca Platypus wrote: Wrong. FW is also organized, can they put their candidate? No chance in hell. The only "hisec candidate" ever to make was vegetable and goon pet Mike, who did literally anything NERF HISEC group told him, mostly being a vegetable and worst CSM rep ever. Which would be one or two people BETTER than current full bloc minority CSM that doesn't represent 10% of eve. Actually FWar has gotten a candidate onto the CSM a couple of times now at least, the biggest problems there are that FWar is tiny compared to other areas and it's inherently factionalized, so there are four different groups vying for influence and with different opinions on what would be good for FWar or the game as a whole. Orca Platypus wrote: Cannot be produced = cannot be used, hence inaccessible. Unless you live on jita undock, which seems to be your case. If you can't manage to either ship in bubbles to wherever you live or ship in enough materials to produce them then I really have to wonder what exactly you're protecting. A bunch of T1 Mining Barges and a Porpoise? Seriously, if you're under some self-imposed restriction on not building anything you can't produce locally CCP is not required to design around your silly restrictions. This whole "I can't use T2 bubbles! Can't!" thing is what sounds ridiculous to me. Orca Platypus wrote: Killing would become abundant with killmails, both for safe kb padding and free intel. Just placing them is 60 manhours per month cost, taking them down adds another 60, now that's 120 manhours per month. At 100 mil per hour income of someone actively doing things in space, we're looking at 12 bil per month cost of managing bubbles, and that's just MANAGING them. Doesn't that sound ridiculous to you? And what exactly "done" means? "done" as "we're done living here, pack up and go to hisec"? 60 manhours cost was calculated for ONE large bubble on each side of each gate of average constellation, plus few specials. Any more would blow the cost way into 10+ billion per month. At least 5 bubbled gates in every direction is required if you want to siege a rorqual without a hand on batphone, otherwise it dies with 99.9% chance. For ratting on carriers, 1-2 gates down is minimal requirement, otherwise you're getting caught for free, which is the purpose of this change and why everyone with a hand on batphone whines that their free targets are too safe. Bubble KMs are super free absolutely reliable intel. They are worth a PLEX to avoid. Killmail is way more than enough reason to kill bubbles. Now that they're part of elite pvp e-peen contest, they will be killed in thousands. Okay, this is just ridiculous for so many reasons. First off, the side that gets the intel off of a bubble kill is the person placing it. Second you apparently haven't heard of nullified T3s, which your bubbles won't even slow down. One of the big blocks and afford to either run Nullified T3s to come catch you, or use them to come catch you and light a cyno on you which bypasses all your bubbles. Also as I've already pointed out, T2 are not hard to come by unless you have no logistics chain at all, have no friendly neighbors to buy stuff off of, or are too space-poor to afford even T1 bubbles in any quantity, which is clearly not your problem. I also kind of hope you realize that this sort of thing, dropping tons of bubbles all over a constellation, is exactly what started all of these complaints about no bubble timers in the first place. I'm not even going to touch the ridiculous 60 hours claim, since it relies on the ridiculous idea that you somehow can't get T2 bubbles... which is just WTF.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.24 23:12:17 - [238] - Quote Thanks for confirming you're goon forum alt agenda poster. Claiming hisec is full of null alts makes sense now when all legit hisec players have quit eve after CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign succeeded. CCP is not required to design anything for Jita undock dwellers like yourself either, but this change is not needed for MANY MANY MANY reasons one of them being unproducible by anything which isn't a bloc. First off, the bubble intel impact is tremedous. If somebody is hitting the bubble, the corp that placed it already knows, regardless of it being placed by them or neutral alt. Killing it generates a killmail and those are already telling so much that you better pack up and leave due to your area painted deep red on free intel maps of all eve. No cost would be too great to evade it and living in null outside of bloc would be completely impossible (not like it's possible now, but there are ways, though with this much intel there'd be none). CFCSM of CCPL wins the game yet again, and yet another group of people is forced to choose between quitting eve for another 12 months or quitting eve permanently. Nullified T3s are much less of a problem than you think, but since it's apparent you're dumber than wood, I'm not revealing anything. No use of T2 bubbles have way more reasons than just nightmare to produce logistically. Even if you can produce them, that's tremendous cost of moon upkeep. They would give 10 times more intel than T1, would be much more desirable killmail for people thrilled about their e-peen, and you're still going to lose tons and tons of them, making cost pass 10 billions per month easily. That's just impossible. With this change, not even "tons of bubbles", one bubble per gate imposes incredible, more than any other structure in game, cost of building and maintaining. No large poses, upgrades, or citadels, require 60 manhours in supporting them. No structures require attention every 2 days. Hell, even PI can be set up less annoying, and you don't even have to undock to do the most of it, but not just one constellations of bubbles with this proposed (and hopefully stuffed 10 meters deep in fozzie's intestines) murder of a change. You want to get rid of unattended bubbles? Surely there is a better way than screwing everyone who isn't ratting with a hand on batphone.
Cade Windstalker 905	Posted - 2017.02.24 23:59:44 - [239] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Thanks for confirming you're goon forum alt agenda poster. Claiming hisec is full of null alts makes sense now when all legit hisec players have quit eve after CFCSM NERF HISEC campaign succeeded. I'm not even a fan of the Goons, much less an alt of one. Or an alt period, for that matter, but that's beside the point. Also no, lots of people in High Sec have been Null alts for ages now. If you took a big loss in Null or didn't want to attend a CTA or any of a dozen other things you could just log in on a different 'toon and do something in HS to make ISK. Orca Platypus wrote: CCP is not required to design anything for Jita undock dwellers like yourself either, but this change is not needed for MANY MANY MANY reasons one of them being unproducible by anything which isn't a bloc. First off, the bubble intel impact is tremedous. If somebody is hitting the bubble, the corp that placed it already knows, regardless of it being placed by them or neutral alt. Killing it generates a killmail and those are already telling so much that you better pack up and leave due to your area painted deep red on free intel maps of all eve. No cost would be too great to evade it and living in null outside of bloc would be completely impossible (not like it's possible now, but there are ways, though with this much intel there'd be none). CFCSM of CCPL wins the game yet again, and yet another group of people is forced to choose between quitting eve for another 12 months or quitting eve permanently. This is just... what. Again, you can buy them off the market. Same for Tech or any other moon mineral. Just because you can't mine it locally doesn't mean it doesn't exist... Also, since you're talking like the one placing the bubbles through all of this, why are you complaining about them generating kill mails? Orca Platypus wrote: Nullified T3s are much less of a problem than you think, but since it's apparent you're dumber than wood, I'm not revealing anything. No use of T2 bubbles have way more reasons than just nightmare to produce logistically. Even if you can produce them, that's tremendous cost of moon upkeep. They would give 10 times more intel than T1, would be much more desirable killmail for people thrilled about their e-peen, and you're still going to lose tons and tons of them, making cost pass 10 billions per month easily. That's just impossible.[/quote[ A Mobile Large Warp Disruptor 1 costs about 13m in Jita, a few mill less than half the cost of a T2 one or roughly half a T2 one's cost in materials. So the only way you're getting 'ten times' is if you think this is going to make everyone go around and do nothing but hunt bubbles all the time, which seems just a bit unlikely since bashing bubbles is boring and the first time you kill one the owners get a notification and can come shoot you while you're shooting the second. [quote=Orca Platypus]With this change, not even "tons of bubbles", one bubble per gate imposes incredible, more than any other structure in game, cost of building and maintaining. No large poses, upgrades, or citadels, require 60 manhours in supporting them. No structures require attention every 2 days. Hell, even PI can be set up less annoying, and you don't even have to undock to do the most of it, but not just one constellations of bubbles with this proposed (and hopefully stuffed 10 meters deep in fozzie's intestines) murder of a change. You want to get rid of unattended bubbles? Surely there is a better way than screwing everyone who isn't ratting with a hand on batphone. Because... these aren't structures and they're not meant to be put up permanently and just left there? Seriously, your entire objection to this seems to be based on the completely unrealistic idea that T2 bubbles are somehow out of reach of the majority of Eve. That's ridiculous.
Pete Kring Night Council Holdings Night Council 17	Posted - 2017.02.25 00:50:27 - [240] - Quote here is my questions Why should all T1 bubbles be blanketed by a 2 day limit or T2 by a week limit? If CCP was to use the same basic setup it has for the Mobile depots which currently is it decays in 30 days why can't that limitation be moved over to the bubbles then someone would still have to manually pick them up every month or they would be gone. Everyone gets want they want care bears keep their bubbles without having something else to maintain every couple of days and PvP'ers don't have to deal with abandoned bubbles. I feel as though the bubbles should generate a KM the same way that MTU's and Mobile depots do so that people don't feel they are wasting their time when it comes to killing them to me this would clear up space more then anything else that CCP could do. Who wants to waste their time shooting bubbles for nothing. I would also really like to know how CCP came to the decision to make the MTU and Mobile depot different decay durations when the items weight the same m3. If you think about it small guns don't weight the same as Capital guns. If the m3 scales with the size of the ship why shouldn't the duration something last scale with the m3 of the item? I don't think it would be fair to the player base to take the lazy way out and blanket everything under three different time limits. That just says we don't care and just want changes to make people happy without putting much work or thought into in my opinion. Using the 30 day duration of the Mobile depot here is what I would like to see: Small T1 bubble duration 21 days and for T2 21 days Medium T1 bubble duration 50 days and for T2 50 days Large T1 bubble duration 175 days and for T2 175 days Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS use less fuel the bubbles will last longer. These figures are based on the 30 day duration and m3 of the mobile depot using that as a reference to the m3 of the corresponding bubbles is how I arrived at the numbers. Why should there be a difference in days between the T1 and T2 bubbles as the bubbles weight the same amount. Another issue that arises upon digging deeper into this is the fact that t1 bubbles and T2 bubbles weight the same but have different material inputs so to change the T2 duration just change the weight of the bubbles to accommodate the extra material needed to make them. The same thing can be done using the Mobile tractor units 2 day duration as well: Small T1 bubble duration 1 day and for T2 1 day Medium T1 bubble duration 4 days and for T2 4 days Large T1 bubble duration 12 days and for T2 12 days Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS's use less fuel the bubbles will last longer.

Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1307	Posted - 2017.02.25 02:24:06 - [241] - Quote Pete Kring wrote: here is my questions Why should all T1 bubbles be blanketed by a 2 day limit or T2 by a week limit? If CCP was to use the same basic setup it has for the Mobile depots which currently is it decays in 30 days why can't that limitation be moved over to the bubbles then someone would still have to manually pick them up every month or they would be gone. Everyone gets want they want care bears keep their bubbles without having something else to maintain every couple of days and PvP'ers don't have to deal with abandoned bubbles. I feel as though the bubbles should generate a KM the same way that MTU's and Mobile depots do so that people don't feel they are wasting their time when it comes to killing them to me this would clear up space more then anything else that CCP could do. Who wants to waste their time shooting bubbles for nothing. I would also really like to know how CCP came to the decision to make the MTU and Mobile depot different decay durations when the items weight the same m3. If you think about it small guns don't weight the same as Capital guns. If the m3 scales with the size of the ship why shouldn't the duration something last scale with the m3 of the item? I don't think it would be fair to the player base to take the lazy way out and blanket everything under three different time limits. That just says we don't care and just want changes to make people happy without putting much work or thought into in my opinion. Using the 30 day duration of the Mobile depot here is what I would like to see: Small T1 bubble duration 21 days and for T2 21 days Medium T1 bubble duration 50 days and for T2 50 days Large T1 bubble duration 175 days and for T2 175 days Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS use less fuel the bubbles will last longer. These figures are based on the 30 day duration and m3 of the mobile depot using that as a reference to the m3 of the corresponding bubbles is how I arrived at the numbers. Why should there be a difference in days between the T1 and T2 bubbles as the bubbles weight the same amount. Another issue that arises upon digging deeper into this is the fact that t1 bubbles and T2 bubbles weight the same but have different material inputs so to change the T2 duration just change the weight of the bubbles to accommodate the extra material needed to make them. The same thing can be done using the Mobile tractor units 2 day duration as well: Small T1 bubble duration 1 day and for T2 1 day Medium T1 bubble duration 4 days and for T2 4 days Large T1 bubble duration 12 days and for T2 12 days Faction bubbles just add an additional 7 days onto them for each size just as faction POS's use less fuel the bubbles will last longer. Just did a quick scan of recent posts and it seems; Your whole argument is about you spending time and isk to remain (somewhat) protected while doing whatever it is you claim to be doing. Trust me, if some large group or blok wanted you gone from your space no amount of bubbles is going to stop them. This is a good change aside from the decay duration being too long on all bubbles. Decay should be based on the size and meta of the bubble. Small T1 bubble - 6 hours Small T2 bubble - 12 hours Medium T1 bubble - 12 hours Medium T2 bubble - 24 hours Large T1 bubble - 48 hours Large T2 bubble - 96 hours *Faction bubbles - +100% of T2 equivalent Decay would begin as soon as the person who anchored them has left the system or logged off. Reasoning; Small and medium bubbles are generally used for strategic reasons (gate camps, drag or stop bubbles) and once the camp has broken up they are no longer needed. Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Pete Kring Night Council Holdings Night Council 17	Posted - 2017.02.25 03:23:38 - [242] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Your whole argument is about you spending time and isk to remain (somewhat) protected while doing whatever it is you claim to be doing. Trust me, if some large group or blok wanted you gone from your space no amount of bubbles is going to stop them. This is a good change aside from the decay duration being too long on all bubbles. Reasoning; Small and medium bubbles are generally used for strategic reasons (gate camps, drag or stop bubbles) and once the camp has broken up they are no longer needed. Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. Idk why you are quoting my post has it has nothing to do with spending time or isk to remain protected. It has to do with the discrepancy between the m3 of the bubbles compared to the m3 of mobile depots and the purposed decay of the bubbles. If a mobile depot is 100m3 and lasts 30 days in space why would CCP purpose something that is 585m3 only last 2 days to me that don't make any sense even if it is a video game.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.25 13:52:56 - [243] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: I'm not even a fan of the Goons, much less an alt of one. Or an alt period, for that matter, but that's beside the point. Capitalizing the word goonies, goon agenda poster confirmed twice. grrrrr. Cade Windstalker wrote: Again, you can buy them off the market. Same for Tech or any other moon mineral. Just because you can't mine it locally doesn't mean it doesn't exist... If you live on jita undock, you can. Go 40 jumps out and try it. Odds are people like you become scared 4 jumps away from jita. Cade Windstalker wrote: Also, since you're talking like the one placing the bubbles through all of this, why are you complaining about them generating kill mails? My god, you're dumb. I explained this intel cost thing like half dozen times already and you still think like jita undock dweller you are. For the 7th time, the tremendous, instant, super-reliable intel those killmails generate makes ratting without hand on batphone completely and utterly obsolete. Cade Windstalker wrote: A Mobile Large Warp Disruptor 1 costs about 13m in Jita, a few mill less than half the cost of a T2 one or roughly half a T2 one's cost in materials. So the only way you're getting 'ten times' is if you think this is going to make everyone go around and do nothing but hunt bubbles all the time, which seems just a bit unlikely since bashing bubbles is boring and the first time you kill one the owners get a notification and can batphone 50 supers to shoot you while you're shooting the second. ftfy. This is what will happen, there would be bubble shooting km padding fleets all around eve. Because they are now part of leet pvp. There will be bubble campers near timer to steal them for profit. There would be all sorts of nuisances basement dwelling losers will come up with to make bubbler's life impossible without hand on 50 supers batphones. Cade Windstalker wrote: Because... these aren't structures and they're not meant to be put up permanently and just left there? Seriously, your entire objection to this seems to be based on the completely unrealistic idea that T2 bubbles are somehow out of reach of the majority of Eve. That's ridiculous. Fine, but 2 days is unacceptable. Not like it isn't horrifyingly bad already with killmails giving super reliable free intel murder, it needs to be at least 20 so this chore isn't getting ridiculous. And T2 should be 90 minimum, otherwise they are simply not worth added intel cost, not to mention nightmare of getting them anywhere outside jita undock.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.25 13:57:25 - [244] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. We can afford REASONABLE TIME. 60 manhours per month per 1 bubble on each gate in one constellation is UNREASONABLE. That's more attention and manhours than any structure in the game requires, and costs like a new fortizar every month. This is unacceptable.
Agfro Er Secret Wormhole Authority Group 17	Posted - 2017.02.25 16:44:16 - [245] - Quote Could stand to see longer decay timers, and a larger scale in decay times with size and tech level. The killmails are great :)
Cade Windstalker 914	Posted - 2017.02.25 17:43:18 - [246] - Quote Pete Kring wrote: Idk why you are quoting my post has it has nothing to do with spending time or isk to remain protected. It has to do with the discrepancy between the m3 of the bubbles compared to the m3 of mobile depots and the purposed decay of the bubbles. If a mobile depot is 100m3 and lasts 30 days in space why would CCP purpose something that is 585m3 only last 2 days to me that don't make any sense even if it is a video game. This isn't a realism thing it's a game balance thing. If you need a lore reason then lets say it's because if a bubble runs for too long continuously it rips itself apart or something. They are basically causing a local gravity distortion, so they're designed with something like 'breakers' so instead of exploding, potentially messily, they just go pop quietly once their safety tolerance is passed. You could also say it's something about batteries. Messing with the fabric of space-time takes a lot of AAs. Scooping them hooks them up to the ship's reactor and recharges them. There's any number of possible explanations here, but the size of them does not factor in here.
Cade Windstalker 914	Posted - 2017.02.25 18:05:49 - [247] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Capitalizing the word goonies, goon agenda poster confirmed twice. grrrrr. It's a proper noun. Dude, I think your tinfoil hat needs a tune up... Orca Platypus wrote: If you live on jita undock, you can. Go 40 jumps out and try it. Odds are people like you become scared 4 jumps away from jita. So, there are these magical things called Jump Freighters that the vast majority of people in Null use to resupply and move things that they can't or don't produce locally to their location so they can be used. If you personally can't fly one then Black Frog would be happy to deliver for you. A quick look at their site says that JF service from Jita all the way out to RG9-7U in the arse-end of Deklein costs 460m ISK for up to 320km3 and 2B collateral, which is enough for 62 T2 Large Bubbles (up to 547 if you up the collateral) which should be enough for almost a month of coverage assuming you just let the things expire or they always get popped (unlikely). The whole thing will cost you 12 and change hours of Rorqual mining or about 9 of Carrier ratting in a decent system. Seriously, how do you live in Null and not know how to logistics works? Orca Platypus wrote: My god, you're dumb. I explained this intel cost thing like half dozen times already and you still think like jita undock dweller you are. For the 7th time, the tremendous, instant, super-reliable intel those killmails generate makes ratting without hand on batphone completely and utterly obsolete. This makes absolutely zero sense. The only one getting intel out of this is you, the person who placed the bubbles. The person who placed the bubbles is already visible in the game client and that's the only thing that will show up on the KM for the owner's side. Are you somehow thinking that these killmails will show the ship you're in or something? Orca Platypus wrote: ftfy. This is what will happen, there would be bubble shooting km padding fleets all around eve. Because they are now part of leet pvp. There will be bubble campers near timer to steal them for profit. There would be all sorts of nuisances basement dwelling losers will come up with to make bubbler's life impossible without hand on 50 supers batphones. I'm confused here, because you keep complaining as a bubble owner but then you keep saying stuff like this, which is half ridiculous and half wrong. First off, bubbles are going to expire, not de-anchor, so you can't steal them. It even flat out says in the first post "Mobile Warp Disruptors will decay and explode if left in space for extended periods of time." Second, nothing here is going to significantly change your safety as a bubble user. The limited intel a KM gives will benefit you, and the rest of this doesn't even make any sense. If you're not getting dropped by supers you won't suddenly start having it happen because of this change. If you are then this isn't going to make it happen more or less. Orca Platypus wrote: Fine, but 2 days is unacceptable. Not like it isn't horrifyingly bad already with killmails giving super reliable free intel murder, it needs to be at least 20 so this chore isn't getting ridiculous. And T2 should be 90 minimum, otherwise they are simply not worth added intel cost, not to mention nightmare of getting them anywhere outside jita undock. How about you find ways to play that don't involve 50 bubbles per constellation? Also as noted above, you seem to have some massive misinformation about the intel a Kill Mail provides... The whole point of this change is that you can't easily spam bubbles everywhere and just leave them there forever.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1307	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:49:32 - [248] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. We can afford REASONABLE TIME. 60 manhours per month per 1 bubble on each gate in one constellation is UNREASONABLE. That's more attention and manhours than any structure in the game requires, and costs like a new fortizar every month. This is unacceptable. Where on earth do you get 60 hrs per month per bubble? With the current proposal and T2 large bubbles it is 16 minutes per month per bubble. That works out at around 1.5 hours per week for a gate with 20 T2 bubbles (not uncommon and should require more than set and forget) - A long way from 60 hours. Even with my proposal of 4 days decay for a T2 large it is only 30 minutes per bubble per month. (give or take un-anchoring time) NB; making up random numbers doesn't help your cause, do the math. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Cade Windstalker 922	Posted - 2017.02.26 06:11:10 - [249] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. We can afford REASONABLE TIME. 60 manhours per month per 1 bubble on each gate in one constellation is UNREASONABLE. That's more attention and manhours than any structure in the game requires, and costs like a new fortizar every month. This is unacceptable. Where on earth do you get 60 hrs per month per bubble? With the current proposal and T2 large bubbles it is 16 minutes per month per bubble. That works out at around 1.5 hours per week for a gate with 20 T2 bubbles (not uncommon and should require more than set and forget) - A long way from 60 hours. Even with my proposal of 4 days decay for a T2 large it is only 30 minutes per bubble per month. (give or take un-anchoring time) NB; making up random numbers doesn't help your cause, do the math. I think he's talking about 60 hours to bubble every gate in his constellation, but that's still pretty amazingly unrealistic and assumes he's only using T1 bubbles everywhere among other things.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1307	Posted - 2017.02.26 07:07:43 - [250] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Large bubbles are mainly used for player protection, if the group using them can't afford the time to re-anchor them within the time decay period they don't deserve the protection offered by them. We can afford REASONABLE TIME. 60 manhours per month per 1 bubble on each gate in one constellation is UNREASONABLE. That's more attention and manhours than any structure in the game requires, and costs like a new fortizar every month. This is unacceptable. Where on earth do you get 60 hrs per month per bubble? With the current proposal and T2 large bubbles it is 16 minutes per month per bubble. That works out at around 1.5 hours per week for a gate with 20 T2 bubbles (not uncommon and should require more than set and forget) - A long way from 60 hours. Even with my proposal of 4 days decay for a T2 large it is only 30 minutes per bubble per month. (give or take un-anchoring time) NB; making up random numbers doesn't help your cause, do the math. I think he's talking about 60 hours to bubble every gate in his constellation, but that's still pretty amazingly unrealistic and assumes he's only using T1 bubbles everywhere among other things. Well, cheap outlay gets a cheap, labor intensive return. In the not too near future those who want the protection of bubbled gates will need to spend, a little more isk and man hours to maintain them. Even if his 60 hours was close to realistic, if you split that work among 10 ratters it is only 6 hours per month per player (2.5 hours a week). Not too much to give for the added safety My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Elena Lyudmila Invasion Tactics And Technogies Prothean Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:19:12 - [251] - Quote Then restrict the properties of the cept+¦r and nullifier !!! We will change the bubble constantly. I think it would be better to do it, T2 Large 2 weeks, Syndicate Large 4 weeks
Cade Windstalker 927	Posted - 2017.02.26 16:22:08 - [252] - Quote I'm betting someone at CCP has a tally counter up on a whiteboard for this thread, counting the number of people who want a longer duration and the number who want a shorter one to see if they've hit a nice balance with the current values
Lugh Crow-Slave 3847	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:00:49 - [253] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: I'm betting someone at CCP has a tally counter up on a whiteboard for this thread, counting the number of people who want a longer duration and the number who want a shorter one to see if they've hit a nice balance with the current values lol please this isn't reddit at best the devs will skim it first 4 days then largely ignore it and respond to the Reddit threads on the topic.......... p.s. **** you ccp BLOPS Hauler
Cade Windstalker 930	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:28:07 - [254] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: I'm betting someone at CCP has a tally counter up on a whiteboard for this thread, counting the number of people who want a longer duration and the number who want a shorter one to see if they've hit a nice balance with the current values lol please this isn't reddit at best the devs will skim it first 4 days then largely ignore it and respond to the Reddit threads on the topic.......... p.s. ** you ccp Nah, these threads they actually watch pretty closely. IMO they respond more on Reddit because there are fewer bitter *holes and people don't feel like the devs have* to post there so they're generally more appreciative when they do. Where as whenever a blue tag shows up in a thread around here there's a small flood of people chiming in with "why haven't you X" and "**** you ccp"...
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:04:48 - [255] - Quote Seriously, just why are you so dumb? It took 7 explanations and you still didn't understand a single word. Are all jita undock dwelling goon agenda posters mentally constipated or what? Cade Windstalker wrote: Seriously, how do you live in Null and not know how to logistics works? Seriously, you have no ***** idea whatsoever what are you talking about. It's 220000 m3 of bubbles alone to last you one month. Not only you're totally ignoring the production/purchase cost, then intel cost, the placement cost (60 manhours calculation is lower bound, without interruption, and with killmails for bubbles there will be hordes of interruptions), the plex cost for neutral placement alt, now you're adding logistics cost on top of that? Seriously? That was billions and tens of hours before logistics, now it's even more, tyvm for your **** suggestion, please stick it to the intestine you picked it out from. Cade Windstalker wrote: This makes absolutely zero sense. Stop. Thinking. Like. Jita. Undock. Dwelling. Goon. It'll make sense in an instant (provided you have at least one grey cell, except you've given plenty of reasons to doubt that). The person who placed the bubble is a neutral alt, so no intel here... WAS UNTIL KILLBOARD PADDING NONSENSE. Now it's instant, super-reliable, free intel on everything you've got. I wish it was as trivial as ship types. It's way more, probably will completely obsolete any attempt to be in null outside of bloc. Cade Windstalker wrote: nothing here is going to significantly change your safety as a bubble user. You're being dumb on purpose like all forum goonies, aren't you? I already had to downgrade from proper bubble formations to just one bubble, which impacts safety tremendously. And even one bubble would have unmanageable cost. You're gonna spend all your eve play time managing one constellation of one bubble per gate. And you *** goon agenda posters and other PL scum are here to convince people and CCPL that it's totally all right, when it is completely ** up. Cade Windstalker wrote: How about you find ways to play that don't involve 50 bubbles per constellation? How about you quit your dumbfuck "roaming" (actually seeking free targets and running from everything else) and stick to hisec afk mining? Eh, not liking it? Need I to point out where the same applies to everyone else, like it is pointed out for 5 year olds, or you can figure out yourself? Cade Windstalker wrote: The whole point of this change is that you can't easily spam bubbles everywhere and just leave them there forever. No, that change would achieve exactly nothing in this direction. Everyone who wants to avoid the manhour cost would be forced to deploy bots (or their human intellectual equivalents like you). The cost is unreasonable and can't be handled by human being with a life. Everyone else would have to join bloc, pay for batphone, or quit eve - which is the real focus of this change. I'm currently in favor of the latter option, CCP. Once again, the cost is UNREASONABLE. 20 days should be minimum, considering bubbles will be hunted and killed by nolifer bubble popping km padding fleets and give tremendous amounts of intel. You will still have to pay MASSIVE cost for bubble replacement of bubbles popped by km padder elite pvp fleets, but the overall cost would be manageable. But normally you should seek other solutions - I'm ok with fueling them with fuel blocks, capbooster charges, interdiction launcher ammo, whatever, but not the stupidly low timer - permanent 2 days alarm clock you're not allowed to miss which can be disrupted by any piece of ** in a Thrasher is going to achieve nothing but frustration and burnouts.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1308	Posted - 2017.02.28 01:18:49 - [256] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Seriously, just why are you so dumb? It took 7 explanations and you still didn't understand a single word. Are all jita undock dwelling goon agenda posters mentally constipated or what? Ok this is just getting really boring. 1. If you didn't make a point of saying everyone who has a different point of view (generally the right one) to you is "dumb", you might not be considered a simple troll who has no idea what he is talking about. 2. If you actually did the math on bubble decay instead of guessing and suggesting such ridiculous time frames - You might get past people thinking you are just trolling. 3. If you went and read the very first post in this thread, you would see you are overreacting, showing just how risk averse and lazy you are, then you might not come across as someone just trolling this thread. 4. If you post relevant information (actual times, costs etc) to back up your claims instead of just saying "it is all too hard and costs too much". Others may take you a little more seriously and you won't just look like an uninformed troll. -- - -- - -- - -- If you choose to use the new mechanics, you will not have to replace all your bubbles every month. Cost for maintaining your play style, is in time and not much of it considering the benefits. Your claims of "free intel" are just not realistic - The ONLY intel bubble killmails will give to anyone looking is how many were there. If you look at bubble mechanics and grab a calculator, you will find your claims of "bubbles will consume all my time" are completely wrong. (Eve is about working in groups, get one of your ratting/mining buddies to help you Devs could really stick it to you and make bubbling gates even harder - - Be grateful Devs are supporting your risk averse play style with what is in the end, a minor change. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2017.02.28 02:52:11 - [257] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Seriously, just why are you so dumb? It took 7 explanations and you still didn't understand a single word. Are all jita undock dwelling goon agenda posters mentally constipated or what? Ok this is just getting really boring. 1. If you didn't make a point of saying everyone who has a different point of view (generally the right one) to you is "dumb", you might not be considered a simple troll who has no idea what he is talking about. 2. If you actually did the math on bubble decay instead of guessing and suggesting such ridiculous time frames - You might get past people thinking you are just trolling. 3. If you went and read the very first post in this thread, you would see you are overreacting, showing just how risk averse and lazy you are, then you might not come across as someone just trolling this thread. 4. If you post relevant information (actual times, costs etc) to back up your claims instead of just saying "it is all too hard and costs too much". Others may take you a little more seriously and you won't just look like an uninformed troll. -- - -- - -- - -- If you choose to use the new mechanics, you will not have to replace all your bubbles every month. Cost for maintaining your play style, is in time and not much of it considering the benefits. Your claims of "free intel" are just not realistic - The ONLY intel bubble killmails will give to anyone looking is how many were there. If you look at bubble mechanics and grab a calculator, you will find your claims of "bubbles will consume all my time" are completely wrong. (Eve is about working in groups, get one of your ratting/mining buddies to help you Devs could really stick it to you and make bubbling gates even harder - - Be grateful Devs are supporting your risk averse play style with what is in the end, a minor change. As for someone, rare as it seems in this topic, I actually shoot buble's, placed buble's and produced them. So Ocker, do not neglect quore someone, of few who actually have clue about how things work and point them out. And for how easy is to kill them, now when they will be giving killmail's like MTU's do, there will be same spree on buble's as it is on MTU's, from no skill pew pew players, for who there zkill matter's. And same player's, somehow skip all over zkill broken base calculation, as it do not divide damage and isk destroyed, by people involved on killmail. But back on topic, only reasonable change would be to make buble's, similar to pos, generate interdiction field when fueled, and from all possible fuel's, again only resonable would be liquid ozone, as it is main fuel(itself) for nullsec, with not enough demand for it from cyno's, bridges, production.
Cade Windstalker 944	Posted - 2017.02.28 03:46:11 - [258] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Seriously, you have no ***** idea whatsoever what are you talking about. It's 220000 m3 of bubbles alone to last you one month. Not only you're totally ignoring the production/purchase cost, then intel cost, the placement cost (60 manhours calculation is lower bound, without interruption, and with killmails for bubbles there will be hordes of interruptions), the plex cost for neutral placement alt, now you're adding logistics cost on top of that? Seriously? That was billions and tens of hours before logistics, now it's even more, tyvm for your **** suggestion, please stick it to the intestine you picked it out from. So many problems with this. Okay, first off you shouldn't be losing anywhere near all of the bubbles you place unless you're either making an unholy graphics mess or dropping em all down on a main pipe. Those you don't lose to attack you can unanchor and re-use, meaning your 220km3 is a bit of an absurd over estimate. Also a neutral alt doesn't cost you anything, it can be on the same account you play with in one of the other two slots. Heck, use this guy you're posting with Your views on the intel area are kind of massively off. Orca Platypus wrote: It'll make sense in an instant (provided you have at least one grey cell, except you've given plenty of reasons to doubt that). The person who placed the bubble is a neutral alt, so no intel here... WAS UNTIL KILLBOARD PADDING NONSENSE. Now it's instant, super-reliable, free intel on everything you've got. I wish it was as trivial as ship types. It's way more, probably will completely obsolete any attempt to be in null outside of bloc. Yeah no, you're still making zero sense here. The only reason you would be forced to shoot anchored bubbles is if you have someone else in system to ambush you, in which case no intel loss here. If there's no one around it's an entirely voluntary choice, and you don't even need to use all your ships to do so. On top of that if you use an alt (and honestly even if you don't) there's still zero intel being provided on the person placing the bubble. I'm thinking you just don't understand how killmails work or something, unless you'd care to do a better job explaining yourself? Preferably with fewer insults, less yelling, and more adjectives and more correct verb usage. Orca Platypus wrote: I already had to downgrade from proper bubble formations to just one bubble, which impacts safety tremendously. And even one bubble would have unmanageable cost. You're gonna spend all your eve play time managing one constellation of one bubble per gate. And you *** goon agenda posters and other PL scum are here to convince people and CCPL that it's totally all right, when it is completely ** up. No, you're honestly just not making much sense here. Your time extimates are massively large, like you're sitting with each and every bubble every time you anchor it instead of just kicking it out the door and moving on. Same for scooping, move from bubble to bubble, de-anchor, and then go around and scoop. Not hard, no where near the time cost you're saying it would be. Also you're assuming you need literally every gate for like 5 jumps bubbled, which is kinda silly as well, but whatever makes you feel safe... Orca Platypus wrote: No, that change would achieve exactly nothing in this direction. Everyone who wants to avoid the manhour cost would be forced to deploy bots (or their human intellectual equivalents like you). The cost is unreasonable and can't be handled by human being with a life. Everyone else would have to join bloc, pay for batphone, or quit eve - which is the real focus of this change. I'm currently in favor of the latter option, CCP. Once again, the cost is UNREASONABLE. 20 days should be minimum, considering bubbles will be hunted and killed by nolifer bubble popping km padding fleets and give tremendous amounts of intel. You will still have to pay MASSIVE cost for bubble replacement of bubbles popped by km padder elite pvp fleets, but the overall cost would be manageable. But normally you should seek other solutions - I'm ok with fueling them with fuel blocks, capbooster charges, interdiction launcher ammo, whatever, but not the stupidly low timer - permanent 2 days alarm clock you're not allowed to miss which can be disrupted by any piece of in a Thrasher is going to achieve nothing but frustration and burnouts. Your views on the game, how it works, and how people behave seem to be rather significantly divorced from reality, and that's without all the hyberbole and insults thrown in. Also your massive refusal to use anything but T1 bubbles is just kinda sad. Will there be bubble hunting fleets the first week or two? Absolutely, because there are so many bloody bubble-**ed gates in Null it's hilarious and a bit sad, and people will want a bit of good natured revenge. After that? Popping bubbles is boring, and people will only do it if they think it'll get them a fight, because otherwise they've just told someone they might be coming, and they'd rather kill your Carrier or fight your friends than spend the time to kill your bubbles.
Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2017.02.28 03:59:26 - [259] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Seriously, you have no ***** idea whatsoever what are you talking about. It's 220000 m3 of bubbles alone to last you one month. Not only you're totally ignoring the production/purchase cost, then intel cost, the placement cost (60 manhours calculation is lower bound, without interruption, and with killmails for bubbles there will be hordes of interruptions), the plex cost for neutral placement alt, now you're adding logistics cost on top of that? Seriously? That was billions and tens of hours before logistics, now it's even more, tyvm for your **** suggestion, please stick it to the intestine you picked it out from. So many problems with this. Okay, first off you shouldn't be losing anywhere near all of the bubbles you place unless you're either making an unholy graphics mess or dropping em all down on a main pipe. Those you don't lose to attack you can unanchor and re-use, meaning your 220km3 is a bit of an absurd over estimate. Also a neutral alt doesn't cost you anything, it can be on the same account you play with in one of the other two slots. Heck, use this guy you're posting with Your views on the intel area are kind of massively off. Orca Platypus wrote: It'll make sense in an instant (provided you have at least one grey cell, except you've given plenty of reasons to doubt that). The person who placed the bubble is a neutral alt, so no intel here... WAS UNTIL KILLBOARD PADDING NONSENSE. Now it's instant, super-reliable, free intel on everything you've got. I wish it was as trivial as ship types. It's way more, probably will completely obsolete any attempt to be in null outside of bloc. Yeah no, you're still making zero sense here. The only reason you would be forced to shoot anchored bubbles is if you have someone else in system to ambush you, in which case no intel loss here. If there's no one around it's an entirely voluntary choice, and you don't even need to use all your ships to do so. On top of that if you use an alt (and honestly even if you don't) there's still zero intel being provided on the person placing the bubble. I'm thinking you just don't understand how killmails work or something, unless you'd care to do a better job explaining yourself? Preferably with fewer insults, less yelling, and more adjectives and more correct verb usage. Orca Platypus wrote: I already had to downgrade from proper bubble formations to just one bubble, which impacts safety tremendously. And even one bubble would have unmanageable cost. You're gonna spend all your eve play time managing one constellation of one bubble per gate. And you *** goon agenda posters and other PL scum are here to convince people and CCPL that it's totally all right, when it is completely ** up. No, you're honestly just not making much sense here. Your time extimates are massively large, like you're sitting with each and every bubble every time you anchor it instead of just kicking it out the door and moving on. Same for scooping, move from bubble to bubble, de-anchor, and then go around and scoop. Not hard, no where near the time cost you're saying it would be. Also you're assuming you need literally every gate for like 5 jumps bubbled, which is kinda silly as well, but whatever makes you feel safe... Orca Platypus wrote: No, that change would achieve exactly nothing in this direction. Everyone who wants to avoid the manhour cost would be forced to deploy bots (or their human intellectual equivalents like you). The cost is unreasonable and can't be handled by human being with a life. Everyone else would have to join bloc, pay for batphone, or quit eve - which is the real focus of this change. I'm currently in favor of the latter option, CCP. Once again, the cost is UNREASONABLE. 20 days should be minimum, considering bubbles will be hunted and killed by nolifer bubble popping km padding fleets and give tremendous amounts of intel. You will still have to pay MASSIVE cost for bubble replacement of bubbles popped by km padder elite pvp fleets, but the overall cost would be manageable. But normally you should seek other solutions - I'm ok with fueling them with fuel blocks, capbooster charges, interdiction launcher ammo, whatever, but not the stupidly low timer - permanent 2 days alarm clock you're not allowed to miss which can be disrupted by any piece of in a Thrasher is going to achieve nothing but frustration and burnouts. Your views on the game, how it works, and how people behave seem to be rather significantly divorced from reality, and that's without all the hyberbole and insults thrown in. Also your massive refusal to use anything but T1 bubbles is just kinda sad. Will there be bubble hunting fleets the first week or two? Absolutely, because there are so many bloody bubble-**ed gates in Null it's hilarious and a bit sad, and people will want a bit of good natured revenge. After that? Popping bubbles is boring, and people will only do it if they think it'll get them a fight, because otherwise they've just told someone they might be coming, and they'd rather kill your Carrier or fight your friends than spend the time to kill your bubbles. Umm, no. Just from start to end, one big NO on eveonline game, maybe in some other title, but not in eve.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 09:11:54 - [260] - Quote Here we go, dumb hisec goon agenda poster being dumb again. 8th time explaining didn't leave a dent on your wooden head either. Should we go 9th time, or at this point it's apparent that you're irredeemably dumb? Cade Windstalker wrote: Okay, first off you shouldn't be losing anywhere near all of the bubbles you place unless you're either making an unholy graphics mess or dropping em all down on a main pipe. Not only I have explained the formation at least 5 times to your stupid ass (here we go 6th time: ONE LARGE BUBBLE ON EACH GATE IN A CONSTELLATION, ONE, **********, CAN YOU COUNT TO ONE? Capitalized in case you missed it previous 5 times to make it more noticeable), and also you WILL lose them all if you dared to have a life and miss permanent 2 days alarm clock for 15 minutes. You WILL lose them all if one asshat sits in a Thrasher and doesn't let you reanchor them in the minutes of lifetime they got left. You WILL lose them all to kb padding elite pvp basement dweller fleets. It's irrational to assume that within this new ruleset bubbles can possibly survive, but hisec dumbfucks still somehow come to this dumbfuck conclusion like dumbfucks they are. 220k m3 estimate comes from 219375m3 of 15 sets of 25 large bubbles 585m3 each, it was a very good estimate, which you could've come up with should you be able to count past one. I don't know how to explain intel to jita undock dumbfucks, so I give up. Clearly you have no idea how much this bubble killmail is worth. Oh well, it'll be worth nothing probably because this account will go alpha in 19 hours and if this change stays, it'll stay that way permanently - there is just no point staying with this much free intel and unreasonable patches, it'll be over. The rest is apparently you never tried to anchor more than one bubble, so try it with a timer in one constellation at constant risk of being popped by every trash (since having guard would move manhour cost from 60 to 300 manhours per month, which is more than full time job, at which point CCPL owes me $11/hour of minimal wage at least). And no, there could not even be possibility of rorqual siege without 5 gates down the pipe being bubbled. Because CCPL said so. Cade Windstalker wrote:** Your views on the game, how it works, and how people behave seem to be rather significantly divorced from reality Says the guy who haven't fought in systems lower than 0.6 for years. Yes, they would rather shoot bubbles. Why? Because it's the same kind of idiots who would camp a gate to kill empty pods passing it rather than shoot anything with a gun. Bubble killmails would be godsend for those cretins. Now you can pad you kb in complete safety, they would be way preferred target over a carrier. Especially if someone is dumb enough to actually try and use T2 or faction - that would be magnet for cretins, and once ONE killmail of a faction bubble appears anywhere, next day it's full of special olympic teams looking for it. Because it's not a carrier - unlike carrier, it's an ultimate easy target, the one every ganktard dreams of, the best possible one for showing the world how elite pvp you are and not risk a thing at the same time.

Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1309	Posted - 2017.02.28 09:55:27 - [261] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Seriously, just why are you so dumb? It took 7 explanations and you still didn't understand a single word. Are all jita undock dwelling goon agenda posters mentally constipated or what? Ok this is just getting really boring. 1. If you didn't make a point of saying everyone who has a different point of view (generally the right one) to you is "dumb", you might not be considered a simple troll who has no idea what he is talking about. 2. If you actually did the math on bubble decay instead of guessing and suggesting such ridiculous time frames - You might get past people thinking you are just trolling. 3. If you went and read the very first post in this thread, you would see you are overreacting, showing just how risk averse and lazy you are, then you might not come across as someone just trolling this thread. 4. If you post relevant information (actual times, costs etc) to back up your claims instead of just saying "it is all too hard and costs too much". Others may take you a little more seriously and you won't just look like an uninformed troll. -- - -- - -- - -- If you choose to use the new mechanics, you will not have to replace all your bubbles every month. Cost for maintaining your play style, is in time and not much of it considering the benefits. Your claims of "free intel" are just not realistic - The ONLY intel bubble killmails will give to anyone looking is how many were there. If you look at bubble mechanics and grab a calculator, you will find your claims of "bubbles will consume all my time" are completely wrong. (Eve is about working in groups, get one of your ratting/mining buddies to help you Devs could really stick it to you and make bubbling gates even harder - - Be grateful Devs are supporting your risk averse play style with what is in the end, a minor change. As for someone, rare as it seems in this topic, I actually shoot buble's, placed buble's and produced them. So Ocker, do not neglect quore someone, of few who actually have clue about how things work and point them out. And for how easy is to kill them, now when they will be giving killmail's like MTU's do, there will be same spree on buble's as it is on MTU's, from no skill pew pew players, for who there zkill matter's. And same player's, somehow skip all over zkill broken base calculation, as it do not divide damage and isk destroyed, by people involved on killmail. But back on topic, only reasonable change would be to make buble's, similar to pos, generate interdiction field when fueled, and from all possible fuel's, again only resonable would be liquid ozone, as it is main fuel(itself) for nullsec, with not enough demand for it from cyno's, bridges, production. Not really sure what your reply has to do with my post but OK. As for your "back on topic"; I believe Devs are looking for a relatively simple change that doesn't require millions of lines of code and completely changing the current mechanics. Fueling bubbles would be fraught with problems, not least of all would be - How much fuel should each sized bubble be able to hold. Too much and the current problem with bubbles is not addressed. Too little creates issues for those using them for added protection. Then there is the issue of how much fuel each type of bubble uses per hour. This would be a coding nightmare for Devs as each type (T1, T2, Faction) and size of bubble would require its own coding. Biggest problem though would be having to take a hauler with you to simply use anchorable bubbles My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 10:08:25 - [262] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Fueling bubbles would be fraught with problems, not least of all would be - How much fuel should each sized bubble be able to hold. Too much and the current problem with bubbles is not addressed. Too little creates issues for those using them for added protection. Then there is the issue of how much fuel each type of bubble uses per hour. This would be a coding nightmare for Devs as each type (T1, T2, Faction) and size of bubble would require its own coding. The current problem will be addressed even with bubbles holding 90 days of fuel. Remember, the STATED GOAL is to remove unattended bubbles. So whatever other "problems" you might have or not have with bubbles is your personal agenda and has nothing to do with a stated goal. Unfueled unattended bubbles will disappear. Fueled attended bubbles will not, problem solved. Though it'll be needed to increase their tank, as they are too trivial to kill and will probably drop their fuel to further bolster the elite pvp kb padding fleets, like those morons ever needed any more incentive. That will add fuel losses to bubble losses, so cost is still massive, but at least you don't have to go through alarm clock every 2 days and it doesn't tax the most important resource - manhours, which could be spent, you know, actually playing the game. P.S. And no, this is not a coding nightmare. First, you implement an entirely new thing, which only requires a fuel bay (copy&paste from a capital ship, done), and 3600 seconds update timer which grabs some fuel from that bay or blows the thing up if there isn't any left. Then you make a script that changes all bubbles to that new object you just created, which has no visual difference from current bubble whatsoever, and you're done without nightmares.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1310	Posted - 2017.02.28 11:08:39 - [263] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Fueling bubbles would be fraught with problems, not least of all would be - How much fuel should each sized bubble be able to hold. Too much and the current problem with bubbles is not addressed. Too little creates issues for those using them for added protection. Then there is the issue of how much fuel each type of bubble uses per hour. This would be a coding nightmare for Devs as each type (T1, T2, Faction) and size of bubble would require its own coding. The current problem will be addressed even with bubbles holding 90 days of fuel. Remember, the STATED GOAL is to remove unattended bubbles. So whatever other "problems" you might have or not have with bubbles is your personal agenda and has nothing to do with a stated goal. Unfueled unattended bubbles will disappear. Fueled attended bubbles will not, problem solved. Though it'll be needed to increase their tank, as they are too trivial to kill and will probably drop their fuel to further bolster the elite pvp kb padding fleets, like those morons ever needed any more incentive. That will add fuel losses to bubble losses, so cost is still massive, but at least you don't have to go through alarm clock every 2 days and it doesn't tax the most important resource - manhours, which could be spent, you know, actually playing the game. P.S. And no, this is not a coding nightmare. First, you implement an entirely new thing, which only requires a fuel bay (copy&paste from a capital ship, done), and 3600 seconds update timer which grabs some fuel from that bay or blows the thing up if there isn't any left. Then you make a script that changes all bubbles to that new object you just created, which has no visual difference from current bubble whatsoever, and you're done without nightmares. Seriously 90 days? That is 80 days too much. At most they should hold no more than a weeks fuel. If you and your corp/alliance can't spend a few hours a week keeping your bubbles in place you should consider highsec as your next home. Nulsec is not meant to be risk free, you are supposed to put in effort to keep your sov. That should and soon will include keeping your safety net in place. All your doing is presenting pointless arguments to save you effort at maintaining your safe mining. Devs proposal of a week is more than generous - Your 90 days is just over the top and holds no merit aside from you getting to rat/mine risk and cost free - All reward no risk is not how things should be. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Necharo Rackham Side Kicks The-Culture 73	Posted - 2017.02.28 12:09:59 - [264] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: I don't know how to explain intel to jita undock dumbfucks, so I give up. Clearly you have no idea how much this bubble killmail is worth. Oh well, it'll be worth nothing probably because this account will go alpha in 19 hours and if this change stays, it'll stay that way permanently - there is just no point staying with this much free intel and unreasonable patches, it'll be over. So basically you drop bubbles with your forum posting alt and don't want us to know where your main lives ? Quote: And no, there could not even be possibility of rorqual siege without 5 gates down the pipe being bubbled. Because CCPL said so. It's their particular way of balancing risk/reward and trying to encourage certain behaviours in null - the answer is to group up with other people so you can put up some form of defense to save the rorqual if necessary. They aren't going to optimize for someone solo mining out in null with no assistance.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 350	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:34:16 - [265] - Quote Popped by this thread for some entertainment, did not disappoint.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 15:44:13 - [266] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Seriously 90 days? That is at least 80 days too much. At most they should hold no more than a weeks fuel. All your doing is presenting pointless arguments to save you effort at maintaining your safe mining. Devs proposal of a week is more than generous - Your 90 days is just over the top and holds no merit aside from you getting to rat/mine risk and cost free - All reward no risk is not how things should be. PS; Did you forget there a 9 different types of bubbles or should the coding for all bubbles be the same? Should a T1 small bubble also last in space for 90 days? Did you forget new BPO's, BPC's would need to be coded. Simply copy pasting the fuel bay from a capital ship is not going to go close to adding what would essentially be 9 new different modules. Seriously one week? That's at least 2 weeks too short. All you're doing is presenting pointless arguments to drive everyone into a bloc or out of nullsec. Devs proposal is ridiculously dumb and almost forcefully pushes people to deploy bots or quit altogether, as that manhour cost exceeds that of anything currently in eve, and simply cannot be paid by people with a life. > Did you forget there a 9 different types of bubbles or should the coding for all bubbles be the same? It's called copy&paste&modify son. > Should a T1 small bubble also last in space for 90 days? The goal, as stated (tempted to pun ass-stated here) by CCPL Fozzie, is to remove unattended bubbles. Which means the change should do NOTHING to attended bubbles and they should stay where they are as long as owner tends to them NOT EVERY 2 ******* DAYS ON ALARM CLOCK OR LOSE EVERYTHING. > Did you forget new BPO's, BPC's would need to be coded. That requires only one change. The object id of the end result to be modified in existing blueprints static data. Done. > Simply copy pasting the fuel bay from a capital ship is not going to go close to adding what would essentially be 9 new different modules. Please son, I'm coding things like those for a living. Unless something horrible with tons of hacks exists there, it is that simple.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 15:48:31 - [267] - Quote Necharo Rackham wrote: So basically you drop bubbles with your forum posting alt and don't want us to know where your main lives ? I farm SP on my forum posting alt, and what is my bubbler alt you would never know. Necharo Rackham wrote: It's their particular way of balancing risk/reward and trying to encourage certain behaviours in null - the answer is to group up with other people so you can put up some form of defense to save the rorqual if necessary. They aren't going to optimize for someone solo mining out in null with no assistance. Why such an encoded description of batphone? But you are right, that's entirely the point of this change - PAY FOR BATPHONE AND RAT/MINE WITH A HAND ON IT, OR ******* DIE. Does that really sound like such a good idea to force everyone into a giant circlejerk? Do we want a new blue donut?
Cade Windstalker 945	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:18:41 - [268] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Not only I have explained the formation at least 5 times to your stupid ass (here we go 6th time: ONE LARGE BUBBLE ON EACH GATE IN A CONSTELLATION, ONE, **********, CAN YOU COUNT TO ONE? Capitalized in case you missed it previous 5 times to make it more noticeable), and also you WILL lose them all if you dared to have a life and miss permanent 2 days alarm clock for 15 minutes. You WILL lose them all if one asshat sits in a Thrasher and doesn't let you reanchor them in the minutes of lifetime they got left. You WILL lose them all to kb padding elite pvp basement dweller fleets. It's irrational to assume that within this new ruleset bubbles can possibly survive, but hisec dumbfucks still somehow come to this dumbfuck conclusion like dumbfucks they are. Ah, I think I get what you're not understanding... your time estimate is bad. You're wasting a ton of time in your estimate and not being efficient with your time. Your assumption that you're going to lose all your bubbles all the time is also kinda ridiculous. As I said before, bubbles have a lot of HP and they're boring to kill. You'll lose some every so often, but nowhere near all of them. Orca Platypus wrote: 220k m3 estimate comes from 219375m3 of 15 sets of 25 large bubbles 585m3 each, it was a very good estimate, which you could've come up with should you be able to count past one. No, it's really a pretty poor estimate, considering you're still shipping in T1 Large bubbles when you could ship in T2 Larges and get 3.5 times the lifetime before having to poke them at all, out of a little over twice the cost. Orca Platypus wrote: I don't know how to explain intel to jita undock dumbfucks, so I give up. Clearly you have no idea how much this bubble killmail is worth. Oh well, it'll be worth nothing probably because this account will go alpha in 19 hours and if this change stays, it'll stay that way permanently - there is just no point staying with this much free intel and unreasonable patches, it'll be over. The rest is apparently you never tried to anchor more than one bubble, so try it with a timer in one constellation at constant risk of being popped by every trash (since having guard would move manhour cost from 60 to 300 manhours per month, which is more than full time job, at which point CCPL owes me $11/hour of minimal wage at least). And no, there could not even be possibility of rorqual siege without 5 gates down the pipe being bubbled. Because CCPL said so. Lol, so much of this is just ridiculous. For a start I'm thinking you can't explain this whole "free intel" thing because you literally don't understand what info Killmails actually give, and you can't admit it. If there was anything to this you'd have been able to explain something beyond just yelling about "free intel!!!!" for six pages. Also, again, CCP have given you a solution to your time management problem. It's called T2 bubbles. Magic! Orca Platypus wrote:** Says the guy who haven't fought in systems lower than 0.6 for years. Yes, they would rather shoot bubbles. Why? Because it's the same kind of idiots who would camp a gate to kill empty pods passing it rather than shoot anything with a gun. Bubble killmails would be godsend for those cretins. Now you can pad you kb in complete safety, they would be way preferred target over a carrier. Especially if someone is dumb enough to actually try and use T2 or faction - that would be magnet for cretins, and once ONE killmail of a faction bubble appears anywhere, next day it's full of special olympic teams looking for it. Because it's not a carrier - unlike carrier, it's an ultimate easy target, the one every ganktard dreams of, the best possible one for showing the world how elite pvp you are and not risk a thing at the same time. On this account... lol. Main does not mean only If you're that risk averse then that's your choice. I can guarantee you though that those bubbles aren't actually keeping you that safe right now. If someone wanted to they could drop you quite easily, because those bubbles won't stop someone from logging off in your system, they won't stop a nullified ship, and they won't stop someone from jumping in on you. If you haven't been dropped yet it's got more to do with your location and luck than with your protective blanket of bubbles.
Necharo Rackham Side Kicks The-Culture 73	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:33:57 - [269] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Why such an encoded description of batphone? But you are right, that's entirely the point of this change - PAY FOR BATPHONE AND RAT/MINE WITH A HAND ON IT, OR ******* DIE. Does that really sound like such a good idea to force everyone into a giant circlejerk? Do we want a new blue donut? Because its not a 'paying for a batphone' - its simply joining a corporation that is large enough to defend itself from most local threats and has the inclination to do so. They are really not going to optimize for someone who wants to mine SOLO in a rorqual in null, nor should they.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 17:14:15 - [270] - Quote Necharo Rackham wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Why such an encoded description of batphone? But you are right, that's entirely the point of this change - PAY FOR BATPHONE AND RAT/MINE WITH A HAND ON IT, OR ***** DIE. Does that really sound like such a good idea to force everyone into a giant circlejerk? Do we want a new blue donut? Because its not a 'paying for a batphone' - its simply joining a corporation that is large enough to defend itself from most local threats and has the inclination to do so. They are really not going to optimize for someone who wants to mine SOLO in a rorqual in null in near perfect safety, nor should they. No, you are wrong. First, it's not required to mine SOLO, it is required to mine at all, no matter fleet size, no matter anything. Unless you can get rorquals off field fast enough, nothing matters except 50 titans batphone. You either have it and live or you don't and then everything dies. No single non-bloc corp can field as much, so stop your *** **** moronic idiot-level conspiracy bullshit, you know it's a bloc-or-die change, stop pretending like a ***** clown it is not.

Cade Windstalker 947	Posted - 2017.02.28 17:21:09 - [271] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: No, you are wrong. First, it's not required to mine SOLO, it is required to mine at all, no matter fleet size, no matter anything. Unless you can get rorquals off field fast enough, nothing matters except 50 titans batphone. You either have it and live or you don't and then everything dies. No single non-bloc corp can field as much, so stop your ***** **** moronic idiot-level conspiracy bullshit, you know it's a bloc-or-die change, stop pretending like a ***** clown it is not. This is literally false. Most of the drops people have done on Rorquals so far haven't even involved Supers, let alone Titans, and quite a few are sub-cap only, because it turns out moving stuff around is kinda hard with Jump Fatigue. So if you want to drop someone you either need a Dread cache or Black Ops of some kind. Neither of those requires anything like 50 Titans to respond to
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 17:29:09 - [272] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Ah, I think I get what you're not understanding... your time estimate is bad. I know it's bad. It's lower bound and doesn't account for every idiot on a Thrasher in eve. Add those up and you're getting the real value. 60 manhours per month is the minimal. Cade Windstalker wrote: Your assumption that you're going to lose all your bubbles all the time is also kinda ridiculous. As I said before, bubbles have a lot of HP and they're boring to kill. You'll lose some every so often, but nowhere near all of them. Your assumption about not losing all bubbles every time is also ridiculous. To minimize tremendous, blown out of proportion, and completely unrealistic manhour cost of bubble maintenance you have to cut it close to expiration time, otherwise managing bubbles outgrows 40 hours a week which is a full time job. In this condition, missing ONE MINUTE is equal to losing every bubble you've got, and that's what going to happen when you're forced into permanent 2 days alarm clock. I mean, would it be fun and exciting to repeat sov warfare and go out entosising command nodes every 2 days? Unless the answer is yes, this change should go the same direction as that proposal. Cade Windstalker wrote: No, it's really a pretty poor estimate, considering you're still shipping in T1 Large bubbles when you could ship in T2 Larges and get 3.5 times the lifetime before having to poke them at all, out of a little over twice the cost. T2 larges cannot be used, they have way too much intel cost, they attract kb padding loser fleets, there is a high chance they will be lost way more often than T1 bubbles due to this, and that combined with tremendous free intel cost penalty they introduce makes them unusable. Cade Windstalker wrote: For a start I'm thinking you can't explain this whole "free intel" thing because you literally don't understand what info Killmails actually give, and you can't admit it. If there was anything to this you'd have been able to explain something beyond just yelling about "free intel!!!!" for six pages. I admit that I cannot make sense to lesser primate species. Cade Windstalker wrote: If you're that risk averse then that's your choice. I can guarantee you though that those bubbles aren't actually keeping you that safe right now. If someone wanted to they could drop you quite easily, because those bubbles won't stop someone from logging off in your system, they won't stop a nullified ship, and they won't stop someone from jumping in on you. If you haven't been dropped yet it's got more to do with your location and luck than with your protective blanket of bubbles. Translating the above to human language "I do not understand how bubbles and intel works, banana". I will reveal this much to you: I don't use bubbles to prevent logoffs, stop nullified ships, or whatever else your jita undock bound pathetic excuse poopbrain thinks I use them for. There is an aspect dumbfucks like you don't even realize, actually smart way to use bubbles, which is being killed here, along with many other things like common sense, decency, and reason. I tried my best to explain without revealing the trick and I failed, so ** you, CCPL, ** CCPL Fozzie personally, etc, I'm out, eve is dead.
Necharo Rackham Side Kicks The-Culture 73	Posted - 2017.02.28 17:45:02 - [273] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: No, you are wrong. First, it's not required to mine SOLO, it is required to mine at all, no matter fleet size, no matter anything. Unless you can get rorquals off field fast enough, nothing matters except 50 titans batphone. You either have it and live or you don't and then everything dies. No single non-bloc corp can field as much, so stop your ***** **** moronic idiot-level conspiracy bullshit, you know it's a bloc-or-die change, stop pretending like a ***** clown it is not. This is an idiotic argument. Most fleets that drop mining rorquals don't require anything like 50 titans to defeat/drive off - or even any titans at all. Of course, if you are in drop range of a large block and hostile to them then things may be different, but in that case 50 Titans on their own can't save you - and there are plenty of places on the map which are nowhere near them, and they can't be everywhere at once anyway due to JF. So all you need to be able to do is deal competently with local threats in your own staging systems, there is a much smaller risk of a non local threat, but they generally tend to be fairly small scale - a few supers at the most - and in any case that risk is just part of living out in null and choosing one of the more profitable means currently of PVEing.
Aka Evil Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.28 18:21:28 - [274] - Quote The number 1 reason i see that EvE has continued to be a top notch game for ALL playstyles across the gamer universe, is this... for every action there is a equal and possible counter measure. that being said, nullification currently lacks a counter, and so do un-manned bubbles (if you eliminated nullified incterceptors... which needs to happen). For unmanned bubbles, going to a timer seems to be the obvious fit. T3 cruisers with nullification is not horrible, insta lock, dead. For nullified interceptors , currently, there is little to nothing you can do short of setting up your computer with gold lined connections outside the building where ccp's servers are so you can get the perfect tick timer... much like some crooks on wallstreet and jita try make .001 isk on the fractions of information exchange rates. Interceptors are BROKEN. PERIOD. there needs to be a counter. be it a script in a heavy dictor buble or whatever. . having a ship impossible to catch unless you have near perfect internet connection on a good day, while its laggy as hell for this guy running around un-catchable needs a counter, simple as that. make bubbles timers, but make insta warp frigates lockable and killable ... its what 1-2 month training for an interceptor. should be simple skill chain to catch them, but something not common, and dedicated to catching them. for anyone that says that breaks the game, and then i cant tackle things... you arent trying hard enough or skilled enough... i have ran through bubbles in blockade runners that should have died to 20 man gate camps , only to set-up in their territory more times than i have ever been caught doing it.. Easy "i win" buttons, do not become the eve i have come to respect over the years.
Aka Evil Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.02.28 18:37:15 - [275] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: my carebear days in eve is dead. fixed that for you. go kill something, you'll thank me later
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2017.02.28 18:42:14 - [276] - Quote Aka Evil wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: my being free target for your entertainment days are over because eve died. fixed that for you. go kill something, you'll thank me later fixed that for you. There is nothing more boring than eve online pvp. Some assets get on grid, some numbers are exchanged, some assets disappear. It's completely meaningless and goal-less. It's boring me out of my skull, especially since actual shooting takes seconds and there are hours of preparation for it. I cannot understand why anyone with at least one grey cell would do that and not get bored out of his skull. ** you, now, forever and ever, you are dumb as wood and I pray that natural selection will take its course on you. Then I ** on your grave.
FeistyOne 13. Enigma Project 13	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:09:27 - [277] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: I'm betting someone at CCP has a tally counter up on a whiteboard for this thread, counting the number of people who want a longer duration and the number who want a shorter one to see if they've hit a nice balance with the current values I vote shorter duration
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 85	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:41:37 - [278] - Quote Removed some off-topic posts. Be respectful guys! ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3127	Posted - 2017.03.01 20:49:49 - [279] - Quote Can someone explain to me why you could possibly need a bubbles for days if not weeks to be up? I really don't see the point. Hell my vision of bubbles would be "be on grid or it's gone" but I'm open to hearing why a few hours is not enough for any bubbles.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6508	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:08:42 - [280] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Can someone explain to me why you could possibly need a bubbles for days if not weeks to be up? I really don't see the point. Hell my vision of bubbles would be "be on grid or it's gone" but I'm open to hearing why a few hours is not enough for any bubbles. How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu? That's a good argument, right? Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 754	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:22:49 - [281] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Can someone explain to me why you could possibly need a bubbles for days if not weeks to be up? I really don't see the point. Hell my vision of bubbles would be "be on grid or it's gone" but I'm open to hearing why a few hours is not enough for any bubbles. This is pretty much where I'm at with these. I honestly expected a max duration of half a day. For the ease of "drop one off for instant roadlbock", I figured they'd be changed to one-time use with an uptime inversely proportional to the area of effect they provide (candle that burns twice as bright...). It's entirely reasonable to set these down to roadblock a system you want to mine/rat in during your gametime. It's also entirely reasonable to assert that the protection and obstruction they provide should be in-line with the duration you expect to be in the system (or several systems down a branch). Sov was changed to "if you aren't using the space, you lose it", and bringing bubbles down to 4-12 hours would be in line with that goal and line of thinking. Giving bubbles days and weeks just means it'll be someone's job once a week to re-initialize all bubbles in in a given area; I don't foresee it actually doing that much to cut down on the spam. The only real change is people complaining that their roadblocks now suck up maintenance time. Instead, bringing the uptime down to hours shifts the line of thinking of what bubbles are there to do - from a semi-permanent roadblock you just erect everywhere you can, to something that is used for an real and pressing need (i.e. ratting in a system, setting up a gatecamp, or twice a day having to reaffirm a roadblock to cut off direct access to your territory because if it's that important yes you can devote some time to do it once or twice a day). Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2833	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:10:10 - [282] - Quote In highly trafficked areas, the bubbles will die within hours, unless they are defended. Days or weeks won't matter there. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Davionia Vanshel Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 78	Posted - 2017.03.02 07:25:55 - [283] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu? That's a good argument, right? Alternatively someone in their thrasher can just pop your bubble. I see it now - Thrasher bubble popping roams. It will be awesome. Bubble timers are almost irrelevant- The more significant changes that will change gameplay are killmails and shield rep.
Davionia Vanshel Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 78	Posted - 2017.03.02 07:34:30 - [284] - Quote Aka Evil wrote: The number 1 reason i see that EvE has continued to be a top notch game for ALL playstyles across the gamer universe, is this... for every action there is a equal and possible counter measure. that being said, nullification currently lacks a counter, and so do un-manned bubbles (if you eliminated nullified incterceptors... which needs to happen). ... Interceptors are BROKEN. PERIOD. The counter to a nullified inty is a scout in a cloaky nullified inty and an alt in a smart bombing battlecruiser.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3128	Posted - 2017.03.02 15:35:11 - [285] - Quote Davionia Vanshel wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu? That's a good argument, right? Alternatively someone in their thrasher can just pop your bubble. I see it now - Thrasher bubble popping roams. It will be awesome. Bubble timers are almost irrelevant- The more significant changes that will change gameplay are killmails and shield rep. If I have to pop bubbles on every damn gate in a constellation, I will run out of ammo to actually shoot ships at some point.
Cade Windstalker 979	Posted - 2017.03.02 18:11:05 - [286] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Davionia Vanshel wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu? That's a good argument, right? Alternatively someone in their thrasher can just pop your bubble. I see it now - Thrasher bubble popping roams. It will be awesome. Bubble timers are almost irrelevant- The more significant changes that will change gameplay are killmails and shield rep. If I have to pop bubbles on every damn gate in a constellation, I will run out of ammo to actually shoot ships at some point. Oracle with T1 crystals says hi!
Prometheus Centuri Interstellar Deshipping Inc. 0	Posted - 2017.03.03 21:30:03 - [287] - Quote The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3135	Posted - 2017.03.03 21:58:34 - [288] - Quote Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... You will stop doing PvP because you KB will look bad of people shoot your bubbles? Is this what you are saying?
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1310	Posted - 2017.03.03 23:02:38 - [289] - Quote Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble? That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills. I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 754	Posted - 2017.03.04 04:13:57 - [290] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble? That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills. I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard. Or just roll up an alpha alt and have him drop 'em. Although I'm not familiar with alpha clones or their limitations...can an Alpha drop a bubble? If so, problem solved, right? Not that I really want to enable this guy's behavior, but the problem-solver within me doesn't want to let it go either. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.

Cade Windstalker 990	Posted - 2017.03.04 06:32:52 - [291] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Or just roll up an alpha alt and have him drop 'em. Although I'm not familiar with alpha clones or their limitations...can an Alpha drop a bubble? If so, problem solved, right? Not that I really want to enable this guy's behavior, but the problem-solver within me doesn't want to let it go either. Alphas can't train Anchoring high enough for T2 at the very least. Though that's an all of 3-12 day train on a spare character slot for Anchoring 4 or 5, depending on if you want T1 or T2 Larges. Alternatively an alt and one and a piece Skill Injectors, probably with enough left over to fly a decent T1 Industrial with fittings for bubble work.
Kaoraku Shayiskhun The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers 7	Posted - 2017.03.04 11:42:05 - [292] - Quote Fifth Blade wrote: Much shorter expiry times would be an improvement (4-6h). So that people can still use them strategically, but it would prevent renters from bubbling each of their gates once every day (which results in no effective change). Surgical bubbles could use a rework to be made useful, also. If you really wan't to disrupt nullification.... You have right. Now you have to take care when you move in some cloaky cyno **** without nullifier. The game goes to a terrible way right? Or wait. You should shoot down those things, now even those give killmail (rofl)
Lucy Callagan TURN LEFT 232	Posted - 2017.03.04 15:07:50 - [293] - Quote Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... Your KB is already terrible m8
Bammari Spazedust Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.03.05 15:55:45 - [294] - Quote Why do game changes so often have to go overboard? What is wrong with incremental changes allowing measured cause and effect? Shorter duration bubbles are fine. Easier to kill bubbles are fine if that's the direction they want to go. But generated KMs are a bad idea, particularly for small bubbles. No small bubble will survive it's first encounter, and usage will fall off a cliff because of that.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2834	Posted - 2017.03.05 18:18:16 - [295] - Quote Bammari Spazedust wrote: usage will fall off a cliff because of that. If that is true, that is a good thing. You should not put stuff out in space if you don't want to see it die. If your precious kill board stats so important that you will not risk losing a mobile warp disruptor, you may have a problem. A problem not just with Eve, but with life. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2834	Posted - 2017.03.05 18:19:10 - [296] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble? That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills. I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard. In before people start making alts just for anchoring bubbles so that their precious kill board stats will not be affected. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3867	Posted - 2017.03.06 00:54:35 - [297] - Quote Prometheus Centuri wrote: The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc... Next time sine one tells me people like you don't exist when I bring up removing kill mails I'll point them to this. PS CCP remove kill mails or at least their api BLOPS Hauler
Bammari Spazedust Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.03.06 05:25:20 - [298] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Bammari Spazedust wrote: usage will fall off a cliff because of that. If that is true, that is a good thing. You should not put stuff out in space if you don't want to see it die. If your precious kill board stats so important that you will not risk losing a mobile warp disruptor, you may have a problem. A problem not just with Eve, but with life. Your opinion of what people should or shouldn't care about is besides the point (and misguided since some people simply like to "keep score" - if you don't then good for you, but whatever motivation you have in this video game is no more or less noble I assure you). I don't know where your assumption that the problem with constant and quick loss of bubbles is a kill mail issue rather than a logistical one comes from, but the problem with the KMs to which I refer is that you are artificailly incentivizing the killing of bubbles and thereby creating a logistical nightmare for solo nullsec roam/campers. If solo isn't your play style then grats on not having to care about this. But if you do happen to be one affected by this then it is an unnecessary and possibly unintended problem that needs to be pointed out to the powers that be.
Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2017.03.06 08:40:47 - [299] - Quote Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers, that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down, at same time, make them run on liquid ozone, in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel. Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down. That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them, will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone, fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did. Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change!
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3157	Posted - 2017.03.06 17:23:58 - [300] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers, that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down, at same time, make them run on liquid ozone, in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel. Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down. That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them, will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone, fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did. Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change! Why do you need bubbles that last for a month or more?

Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 29	Posted - 2017.03.06 19:04:46 - [301] - Quote The fact that they generate kill mails and "kills" will completely change the dynamic. Everything else is moot. ERONEOUS ON ALL COUNTS.
Cade Windstalker 1005	Posted - 2017.03.06 19:25:32 - [302] - Quote Bammari Spazedust wrote: ... I don't know where your assumption that the problem with constant and quick loss of bubbles is a kill mail issue rather than a logistical one comes from, but the problem with the KMs to which I refer is that you are artificailly incentivizing the killing of bubbles and thereby creating a logistical nightmare for solo nullsec roam/campers. If solo isn't your play style then grats on not having to care about this. But if you do happen to be one affected by this then it is an unnecessary and possibly unintended problem that needs to be pointed out to the powers that be. I think a large part of the point of this change is to make it harder to keep a gate bubbled indefinitely. Also part of the request for KMs has always been to give someone a reward for the job of killing the mess of bubbles that clogs up half the gates in Null. Since bubbles will now decay that incentivizes not taking the time and wasting the ammo to kill a bubble. Raven Ship wrote: Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers, that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down, at same time, make them run on liquid ozone, in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel. Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down. That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them, will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone, fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did. Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change! The whole point of this is to make it difficult to keep a gate bubbled more or less indefinitely with no effort, not to keep it easy and massively buff their HP. It takes literally 30 seconds to kick a bubble out of your ship and anchor it. That in no way justifies giving bubbles millions of HP. Also the whole argu space argument is basically ridiculous. A small bubble takes 65m3, a Frigate can fit that.
Bammari Spazedust Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.03.06 22:01:40 - [303] - Quote Quote: I think a large part of the point of this change is to make it harder to keep a gate bubbled indefinitely. Also part of the request for KMs has always been to give someone a reward for the job of killing the mess of bubbles that clogs up half the gates in Null. Since bubbles will now decay that incentivizes not taking the time and wasting the ammo to kill a bubble. That's a reasonable point. My rebuttal would be that if the bubble dying anyway, what is the difference how they die? If the goal is to clean up the bubble mess then putting the limited lifetime solves the problem without unnecessary complications. Quote: Also the whole argu (sic) space argument is basically ridiculous. A small bubble takes 65m3, a Frigate can fit that. 65m3 is what is needed now. If the bubbles are constantly being destroyed then potentially many times 65m3 would be needed, which would indeed be a problem for solo roamers. I don't think anyone is saying the space needed before this change is an undo burden.
Cade Windstalker 1013	Posted - 2017.03.07 02:59:10 - [304] - Quote Bammari Spazedust wrote: That's a reasonable point. My rebuttal would be that if the bubble dying anyway, what is the difference how they die? If the goal is to clean up the bubble mess then putting the limited lifetime solves the problem without unnecessary complications. Yes, but that's not the only reason to give bubbles KMs. Part of it's because people want better tracking of ISK spent towards a goal, and part of it is that bubbles are sometimes going to need to be shot (or be the only thing available to be shot) and it's nice to have some measure of acknowledgement from the game that you bothered to grind through the like three brick-tanked Rokhs that make up a standard T1 Large Bubble. Bammari Spazedust wrote: 65m3 is what is needed now. If the bubbles are constantly being destroyed then potentially many times 65m3 would be needed, which would indeed be a problem for solo roamers. I don't think anyone is saying the space needed before this change is an undo burden. That's only true if you're dropping your bubble and leaving for some reason, in which case you can bring another back with you when you return. If you're on-grid and fighting someone and they choose to kill your bubble instead that's pretty much flatly a dumb decision on their part. The only time I can remotely think of where it would be smarter to shoot the bubble than the guy killing you is if you were in a Capital for some reason, can't kill the guy shooting you, and he can't kill you, and the bubble is the only thing keeping you tackle. That's such a niche case though, and has literally nothing to do with the current changes, it would still be the right decision right now on TQ, that it's basically irrelevant to this discussion. If you have another non-edge-case for why bubbles should die more often while actively in use because of these changes then please fire away.
Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2017.03.07 07:09:21 - [305] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Bammari Spazedust wrote: ... I don't know where your assumption that the problem with constant and quick loss of bubbles is a kill mail issue rather than a logistical one comes from, but the problem with the KMs to which I refer is that you are artificailly incentivizing the killing of bubbles and thereby creating a logistical nightmare for solo nullsec roam/campers. If solo isn't your play style then grats on not having to care about this. But if you do happen to be one affected by this then it is an unnecessary and possibly unintended problem that needs to be pointed out to the powers that be. I think a large part of the point of this change is to make it harder to keep a gate bubbled indefinitely. Also part of the request for KMs has always been to give someone a reward for the job of killing the mess of bubbles that clogs up half the gates in Null. Since bubbles will now decay that incentivizes not taking the time and wasting the ammo to kill a bubble. Raven Ship wrote: Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers, that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down, at same time, make them run on liquid ozone, in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel. Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down. That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them, will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone, fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did. Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change! The whole point of this is to make it difficult to keep a gate bubbled more or less indefinitely with no effort, not to keep it easy and massively buff their HP. It takes literally 30 seconds to kick a bubble out of your ship and anchor it. That in no way justifies giving bubbles millions of HP. Also the whole argu space argument is basically ridiculous. A small bubble takes 65m3, a Frigate can fit that. Asked you forum spammer to keep away, you do not know what you speak about, just spam whole day long.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3159	Posted - 2017.03.07 13:55:54 - [306] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Asked you forum spammer to keep away, you do not know what you speak about, just spam whole day long. Why do you need bubbles that last for a month or more?
Bammari Spazedust Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:42:46 - [307] - Quote Quote: If you have another non-edge-case for why bubbles should die more often while actively in use because of these changes then please fire away. Ok, let me describe how I use small bubbles. I'll roam in my frigate, carrying a small bubble or sometimes two. Occasionally I'll pick a system gate to place a stop bubble. As traffic flows through, once in a while a good target for me to fight will land in the bubble, but between these instances will be large and small gangs and larger solo ships I can't handle flowing through. I of course fly to a perch when I see something coming that I can't handle. As it stands now, they sometimes kill my bubble if they are annoyed enough, but more often they just ignore it and move on. They currently have no reason to kill it. After this change, they will have a reason to kill it and they almost inevitably will. If you think people will not spend a minute to get a free km, regardless of how meaningless it really is, then we do not play the same game. If I am right about this then my entire paradigm will collapse. I am not in the majority in my play style, but I am certainly not alone in it either and certainly wouldn't characterize it as fringe play (is there anyone in null who has not run into someone who does this?) My point is that if the goal of cleaning up bubble messes can be achieved without screwing with this and other similar play styles, why not just take the more limited approach? (As an aside, why are KMs generated for anything at all that doesn't shoot back? /boggle)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3169	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:54:05 - [308] - Quote Bammari Spazedust wrote: Quote: If you have another non-edge-case for why bubbles should die more often while actively in use because of these changes then please fire away. Ok, let me describe how I use small bubbles. I'll roam in my frigate, carrying a small bubble or sometimes two. Occasionally I'll pick a system gate to place a stop bubble. As traffic flows through, once in a while a good target for me to fight will land in the bubble, but between these instances will be large and small gangs and larger solo ships I can't handle flowing through. I of course fly to a perch when I see something coming that I can't handle. As it stands now, they sometimes kill my bubble if they are annoyed enough, but more often they just ignore it and move on. They currently have no reason to kill it. After this change, they will have a reason to kill it and they almost inevitably will. If you think people will not spend a minute to get a free km, regardless of how meaningless it really is, then we do not play the same game. If I am right about this then my entire paradigm will collapse. I am not in the majority in my play style, but I am certainly not alone in it either and certainly wouldn't characterize it as fringe play (is there anyone in null who has not run into someone who does this?) My point is that if the goal of cleaning up bubble messes can be achieved without screwing with this and other similar play styles, why not just take the more limited approach? (As an aside, why are KMs generated for anything at all that doesn't shoot back? /boggle) What if the bubbles EHP was modified as long as it's owner is on grid and not cloaked? I have absolutely no idea if this is at all possible but I'm fishing for at least an opinion. Making ti harder to kill when it is "manned" while rather flimsy when "abandoned".
Cade Windstalker 1020	Posted - 2017.03.07 21:50:40 - [309] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Asked you forum spammer to keep away, you do not know what you speak about, just spam whole day long. If you want me to stop disagreeing with you then refute my arguments instead of just yelling random insults at me Bammari Spazedust wrote: Ok, let me describe how I use small bubbles. I'll roam in my frigate, carrying a small bubble or sometimes two. Occasionally I'll pick a system gate to place a stop bubble. As traffic flows through, once in a while a good target for me to fight will land in the bubble, but between these instances will be large and small gangs and larger solo ships I can't handle flowing through. I of course fly to a perch when I see something coming that I can't handle. As it stands now, they sometimes kill my bubble if they are annoyed enough, but more often they just ignore it and move on. They currently have no reason to kill it. After this change, they will have a reason to kill it and they almost inevitably will. If you think people will not spend a minute to get a free km, regardless of how meaningless it really is, then we do not play the same game. If I am right about this then my entire paradigm will collapse. I am not in the majority in my play style, but I am certainly not alone in it either and certainly wouldn't characterize it as fringe play (is there anyone in null who has not run into someone who does this?) My point is that if the goal of cleaning up bubble messes can be achieved without screwing with this and other similar play styles, why not just take the more limited approach? (As an aside, why are KMs generated for anything at all that doesn't shoot back? /boggle) Okay, fair points. Last one first, because that's easiest. KMs are generated for things because people have requested that they be. At their most fundamental KMs are a way of tracking losses and things that don't shoot back are still losses. As to the rest, I'll admit that's a valid case and not one I'd considered, but I don't think it necessarily requires KMs to be removed from bubbles to balance this out. Sure there will probably be an uptick in killing bubbles for a while, but I don't think everyone is going to do it because what most roaming groups are after is, fundamentally, a good fight. If it really does become that much of a problem then CCP can buff bubble HP to make it less worthwhile to kill bubbles people are actually using.
WIll Motsu Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2017.03.08 18:52:55 - [310] - Quote Killmails really?... Fighters, now the mining drones and the mobile warp disruptor's. I think you should go out and kill a ship if you want a killmail.

Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2017.03.09 05:59:07 - [311] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Raven Ship wrote: Asked you forum spammer to keep away, you do not know what you speak about, just spam whole day long. If you want me to stop disagreeing with you then refute my arguments instead of just yelling random insults at me Not going to repeat myself all over place, you are spammer on this forum, and as every spam, there is no point in reading it. Also if your behave insult you, then change it.
Henry Plantgenet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 183	Posted - 2017.03.09 13:25:04 - [312] - Quote The killmails for bubbles will only incentivise bubble placers to buy a bubble permit from your local CAS Agent. They are inexpensive licenses that will guarentee the holder that his bubble won't be blown up by me And besides Destroying a bubble destroys an assets and destroyed assets need a value tracker hence killmails.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3178	Posted - 2017.03.09 14:11:53 - [313] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Not going to repeat myself all over place, you are spammer on this forum, and as every spam, there is no point in reading it. Also if your behave insult you, then change it. All your post in this thread except one were either try to call out pseudo pyfa/EFT warrior or just calling people spammers. Your post which was not empty of actual discussion content was this one. Raven Ship wrote: Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers, that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down, at same time, make them run on liquid ozone, in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel. Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down. That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them, will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone, fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did. Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change! I already asked a question about your point of view but you seem to be completely unable to discus. I will still give you the ebenfit of doubt that you might have missed my question so I will ask again. Why do you need bubbles that last for a month if not more?
Cade Windstalker 1028	Posted - 2017.03.09 18:24:15 - [314] - Quote Raven Ship wrote: Not going to repeat myself all over place, you are spammer on this forum, and as every spam, there is no point in reading it. Also if your behave insult you, then change it. I'm not spamming, and I'm certainly not going to stop posting because someone yelled at me after refusing to read what I wrote If you want me to admit I'm wrong and stop advocating a view point then convince me. I promise it's not hard, provided you have facts and evidence to back up your viewpoint, as opposed to yelling about how idiotic something is, how it's too much, or how you just disagree with it. None of those are evidence, and insults certainly aren't.
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 2092	Posted - 2017.03.09 20:54:37 - [315] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Raven Ship wrote: ... I already asked a question about your point of view but you seem to be completely unable to discus. I will still give you the ebenfit of doubt that you might have missed my question so I will ask again. Why do you need bubbles that last for a month if not more? He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Cade Windstalker 1029	Posted - 2017.03.09 21:16:49 - [316] - Quote March rabbit wrote: He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone That was a different forum alt/rage poster, though I suspect you're right and this person has a similar use case in mind...
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights 510	Posted - 2017.03.09 21:38:05 - [317] - Quote Good Change, I'm happy that decloak citadels / POSs in wormhole space will be generally boned by this.
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1312	Posted - 2017.03.10 01:02:24 - [318] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Raven Ship wrote: ... I already asked a question about your point of view but you seem to be completely unable to discus. I will still give you the ebenfit of doubt that you might have missed my question so I will ask again. Why do you need bubbles that last for a month if not more? He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone Thing he keeps missing is, he doesn't have to do it alone! Anyone in the corp with anchoring skills can re-anchor the bubbles, travelling time would be the mind numbing "I want to kill myself" factor. And if he is only using 1 bubble per gate he is completely under utilizing them. Unless that one bubble is manned constantly it is pointless, even most battleships will get out of it faster than he can warp his miners out to safety. Intel on who is coming for you is what makes bubbled gates useful, if you don't have eyes throughout the constellation you're better off just bubbling the system you're in. One bubble on each gate tells the hunter - He is getting close to his target area, just follow the bubbles (best intel ever). My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Fred Flintst0ne Deep South Confederate Rebel Corp 7	Posted - 2017.03.10 05:06:46 - [319] - Quote I know the POS is slated to be removed due to citadels at some point. However, having bubbles anchored near the guns on the sides have trapped and subsequently killed players even while we are offline. Will they pop after the timer or just become unanchored? Also, will the price drop and or will the materials be less costly. They are of strategic value for the POS setup with top and bottom warp in positions off grid. I know there are a lot that need to be cleaned up, but again. this is of valuable tactical use in a siege situation as well as teaching noobs not to warp to a POS.
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 2092	Posted - 2017.03.10 06:58:29 - [320] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: March rabbit wrote: He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone That was a different forum alt/rage poster, though I suspect you're right and this person has a similar use case in mind... Yeah, sorry. That was Orca Platipus The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Raven Ship Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2017.03.10 10:42:42 - [321] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: All your post in this thread except one were either try to call out pseudo pyfa/EFT warrior or just calling people spammers. Your post which was not empty of actual discussion content was this one. You got lost here. Frostys Virpio wrote: Raven Ship wrote: act like Control Towers I already asked a question about your point of view but you seem to be completely unable to discus. I will still give you the ebenfit of doubt that you might have missed my question so I will ask again. Why do you need bubbles that last for a month if not more? You are from goatswarm, alliance who misspelled there own name, then you are like asking seller for color of that white car from commercial of white cars, so just go elsewhere, and do not attempt to guess any reason for someones ignore you, than waste of there time. Cade Windstalker wrote: I'm not spamming, and I'm certainly not going to stop posting because someone yelled at me after refusing to read what I wrote You do spam all over place, and you have lack in basic understanding of terminology used here, "spam", "insult", "yell", check what it means. It is your problem. March rabbit wrote: He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone Another example of forum spammer incompetence.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3179	Posted - 2017.03.10 13:41:59 - [322] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: March rabbit wrote: He wrote this on page 2 or 3 already: he is putting one bubble on each gate on constellation. Said it is about 50 bubbles. In this case doing it every 2 days will kill anyone That was a different forum alt/rage poster, though I suspect you're right and this person has a similar use case in mind... I literally went through the user's posting history to be sure I didn't miss any. It really feel like asking question to a wall of brick now...
Cade Windstalker 1057	Posted - 2017.03.10 15:37:58 - [323] - Quote Fred Flintst0ne wrote: I know the POS is slated to be removed due to citadels at some point. However, having bubbles anchored near the guns on the sides have trapped and subsequently killed players even while we are offline. Will they pop after the timer or just become unanchored? Also, will the price drop and or will the materials be less costly. They are of strategic value for the POS setup with top and bottom warp in positions off grid. I know there are a lot that need to be cleaned up, but again. this is of valuable tactical use in a siege situation as well as teaching noobs not to warp to a POS. I believe nerfing this sort of AFK-use of bubbles is part of the idea of this change. To answer your question bubbles pop when the timer runs out, they don't just de-anchor.
Captain Campion Campion Corp. 55	Posted - 2017.03.12 12:44:40 - [324] - Quote Why do bubbles have sensor strength? Can you actually jam one?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2845	Posted - 2017.03.12 21:03:12 - [325] - Quote Captain Campion wrote: Why do bubbles have sensor strength? Can you actually jam one? To make them harder to scan down. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 131	Posted - 2017.03.14 17:35:22 - [326] - Quote Just as ***** expected, I come back to find 52 bubble killmails. They are at 12:13, minutes after server startup. Some basement dwelling nerds took their time to camp them before patch actually hit, tens of jumps away from their nearest dockable location, just to pad their pathetic killboards with something I, having a job and a life, had no chance in hell to save. What now CCP? Mission accomplished, basement dwellers got something to do at expense of everyone else, working as intended? How about "** you, I'm done"?
Aebe Amraen Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 208	Posted - 2017.03.14 19:32:55 - [327] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: How about "**** you, I'm done"? Fortunately for all of us, the type of player who relies on 52 bubbles to isolate himself as much as possible from the rest of EVE is not likely to leave much of a void when he leaves. We won't miss you.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 136	Posted - 2017.03.14 21:11:09 - [328] - Quote Aebe Amraen wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: How about "** you, I'm done"? Fortunately for all of us, the type of player who relies on 52 bubbles to isolate himself as much as possible from the rest of EVE is not likely to leave much of a void when he leaves. We won't miss you. First if of course ** you and your stupid face. 52 bubbles there were just a legacy, simply nobody cared to pick them up. They would've expired in two days anyway as no sane effort can keep more than 0 bubbles in space with two days timer. I was complaining at lengths basement dwellers are ready to go for the killmark of something not shooting back, of the tremendous intel cost those killmarks generate, at the permanent two days alarm clock to replace bubbles, if only they lived as much with all the bubble hunting nolife fleets around.
Innominate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 673	Posted - 2017.03.14 22:23:00 - [329] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: First if of course **** you and your stupid face. 52 bubbles there were just a legacy, simply nobody cared to pick them up. They would've expired in two days anyway as no sane effort can keep more than 0 bubbles in space with two days timer. I was complaining at lengths basement dwellers are ready to go for the killmark of something not shooting back, of the tremendous intel cost those killmarks generate, at the permanent two days alarm clock to replace bubbles, if only they lived as much with all the bubble hunting nolife fleets around. If they were just a legacy that nobody cared to pick up, why are you so mad that someone killed them?
Pro Versius ceptacemia DARKNESS. 3	Posted - 2017.03.14 23:26:46 - [330] - Quote Innominate wrote: If they were just a legacy that nobody cared to pick up, why are you so mad that someone killed them? Probably because he got 52 killmails for stupid **.. Personally I only care about KM's for ships. Who gives a f* about km's for bubbles that are practically free... Personally I think if CCP would have done as they said they would over 5 years ago, and give the alliances control of the system gates in 0.0. You wouldn't see a lot of the bubbles you have, because there would be no need. But NOOO CCP can't be bothered to do something worth while... So we, the players, come up with workarounds to get things done and regulate our space as we see fit... The only people who wanted this, are the hardcore PVP people. The high sec crew didn't care. The lowsec folks didn't either.. Those in 0.0 who actually do industry sure as h**l care. But it's not a problem to drop a few bubbles every couple of weeks, so when we take out the mining fleets, we can be somewhat safer...

Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2017.03.15 02:01:00 - [331] - Quote Pro Versius wrote: Innominate wrote: If they were just a legacy that nobody cared to pick up, why are you so mad that someone killed them? Probably because he got 52 killmails for stupid **.. Personally I only care about KM's for ships. Who gives a f* about km's for bubbles that are practically free... Because that's tremendous free intel. Costs way more than already high bubble cost (one bubble may not cost much, multiply by 50 and then by days in the month, and you'll see where I'm getting at). Pro Versius wrote: The only people who wanted this, are the hardcore PVP people. Hardcore pvp people didn't care either. Hardcore pvp people don't go around praying to bob for easy soft kills. This is what losers wanted, the most risk averse kind that somehow in their total absence of thought process concluded that killing a barge is pvp. Those who thought it would be easier to get the barge or rorq if it had no bubbles to hide behind. NO BUBBLE - NO BARGE, SUCKERS. Congrats, dumbasses, you have just thrown out the baby with the bathwater. Pro Versius wrote: Those in 0.0 who actually do industry sure as hl care. But it's not a problem to drop a few bubbles every couple of weeks, so when we take out the mining fleets, we can be somewhat safer... If you're active once in a couple of weeks, then yes, not a problem. If you're active every second day, bubble costs breaks billions. If you're active every day (and want to actually play the game and not spend 2 hours reanchoring bubbles like a bot should) you're closing on 10 bil per month bubble costs. Because every basement dweller who takes his time to pointlessly visit your system is going to carry a bubble killmail as his participation YOU TRIED award. So you have to be ready to replace your bubbles multiple times a day. Every day. We bubbleanchoring online now. You won't have time for anything else, for as long as there are bubbles, there is a pathetic piece of ** who's desperate for a killmail on them.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 354	Posted - 2017.03.15 12:04:59 - [332] - Quote Let's face it, someone probably camped around you systems to destroy all your bubbles having seen how much of a fuss you've made about it here - purely because they knew it would be amusing. They were right, it is.
mkint 1596	Posted - 2017.03.15 18:27:17 - [333] - Quote Mr Floydy wrote: Let's face it, someone probably camped around you systems to destroy all your bubbles having seen how much of a fuss you've made about it here - purely because they knew it would be amusing. They were right, it is. Are there any left? Can I come play? Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3197	Posted - 2017.03.15 19:46:47 - [334] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: J They are at 12:13, minutes after server startup. Some basement dwelling nerds took their time to camp them before patch actually hit, tens of jumps away from their nearest dockable location, just to pad their pathetic killboards with something I, having a job and a life, had no chance in hell to save. You could of un-anchored them the night before. If they are not in space, they can't be killed.
Mr Floydy Side Kicks The-Culture 355	Posted - 2017.03.15 20:09:21 - [335] - Quote mkint wrote: Mr Floydy wrote: Let's face it, someone probably camped around you systems to destroy all your bubbles having seen how much of a fuss you've made about it here - purely because they knew it would be amusing. They were right, it is. Are there any left? Can I come play? No idea, it wasn't me. I was too busy playing World of Warships and testing out my new speakers :D:p
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1315	Posted - 2017.03.15 23:23:34 - [336] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: J They are at 12:13, minutes after server startup. Some basement dwelling nerds took their time to camp them before patch actually hit, tens of jumps away from their nearest dockable location, just to pad their pathetic killboards with something I, having a job and a life, had no chance in hell to save. You could of un-anchored them the night before. If they are not in space, they can't be killed. But then he would have nothing to complain about. Orca Platypus - After all the rubbish you have posted about this - Had I known where your bubbles were, I would have killed them all. Not for the killmails, just because you have made such an ass of yourself over them. Seems you now have 2 choices; You can shut up about how hard done by you are with this change and get back to business in Nul (eventually others will forget about you and you can once again disappear into insignificance, making your bubbles a little safer) OR you can pack up and go back to highsec where without the overwhelming burden of bubble costs you may eek out a reasonable living mining. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.


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